So ???? Have we not learned enough about racism since 1968?

You can always be depended upon to raise even higher the alarms of such as Powell, Miss Kate. Regressive conservative blogging, led by a leading CPC 'nuanced' thinker! Always waiting for your loyal repondants in the Comments section to do your dirty work.

So????? Have you not learned enough about Jihad,blacks murdering blacks,Muslim's enforcing Sharia Law,leftards being,well,leftards?

There.Fixed that for you EM.

More pavillions for Mosaic and Folkfest! hahahaha!

oh for god's sake you collectivist dunces....res ipsa loquitur....RES IPSA LOQUITUR !

In today's terms , what he said back in 1968 & the reality of today's England are understated.

When the Queen appears with a hijab, you will know the jig is up. The British Isles will have become a tomb.

RES IPSA LOQUITUR !

... and your point is?

But what about Caribana?
How will we show our Canadianess if we don't have Caribana?
"You know, you can hear every language of the world at Young and King as yoyu cross the street!"
We are so much better than the Americans, we are so multicultural."

Speaking of cheery events, 119 years ago today, Adolf Hitler was born.

What is really wrong with this picture is that Canadians are not allowed to talk about the negatives. That translates into no restraints placed on excesses.
Minority enclaves that vote in organized blocks rule when the rest of the population is uninformed and split in at least 4 different political directions.
I'm just suspicious enough to entertain the thought that politicians embrace boogymen such as GW to keep the electorate distracted. They and their strategists know that they must placate the voting blocks much to the detriment of everyone else.
Oh; and just for those who are about to screem the "R" word; according to comedian Russel Peters, white people are not. And I am including all people in my remarks who play politics on the basis of ethnicity.

Wow, I never realized what a racist Enoch Powell was. I always imagined he was wrongly forced to resign due to merely expressing a restrictive immigration policy.

Now I see some good points he made on unchecked immigration... and outright racism. Thanks for posting this, Kate, and it's good to see dumping Powell was the right thing to do.

Educating us about that was your reason for posting this, right?

it ain't about race my friend...it's about culture....and human nature....and latterly it's about unchecked immigration of an of an avowedly hostile ideology...res ipsa loquitur.

your style of debate leads me to believe you're another fellow traveller of the hangdawg...you and the hangdawg..what a potential dream team...both of you a mighty right and left cleverer than any phalanx of neocons....steyn and hitchens and podhoretz and kimball and coulter and numberless other falstaffian boobies, countless others, all quail and ground their weapons before your singing swinging beheading intellect and dialectic.

i don't wonder you are so cavalier about the future of our culture when you are so dismissive of it's past.

What's the stat on foreign-borns for CDA? It's got to be similar I would think.

what's my point ?....it's on the top of my head and in my levis....

next question please ....if i'm not going too fast for you of course...btw Idd...read any good books lately ?

"Brits fear race violence will erupt"

By Paul Majendie in London
April 18, 2008 07:45pm
Article from: Reuters

ALMOST two out of three Britons fear race tensions could spill over into violence and half the population want immigrants to be encouraged to leave, a new poll shows.

In a country where the last serious race riots erupted seven years ago between white and Asian youths, the head of Britain's equality watchdog called the poll findings "alarming''.

"What worries me is if that friction starts to catch fire - if people genuinely believe it's going to catch fire - then we're in trouble,'' Equality and Human Rights Commission head Trevor Phillips said.

Of the 1000 people sounded out by Mori pollsters for the BBC, 60 per cent said Britain had too many immigrants.

A quarter of those polled said their area did not feel like Britain any more because of immigration.

--------------

Rivers of blood?

It is already too late for Great Britain; it will be ruled by sharia law within 20 years. Power to the people!!

btw Idd...read any good books lately ?
Posted by: john begley at April 20, 2008 4:42 PM

Yep, plenty, and you?

"res ipsa loquitur" LOL!! A lost cause, John Begley. But keep trying. It's great fun to watch dunces parading their shortcomings for all to see.

Anyway, about the ethnic enclaves business, I wrote a piece today on my blog about Tarek Fatah's disillusionment with the New Dunces Party. Fatah says something very similar to "Whole areas, towns and parts of towns across England will be occupied by sections of the immigrant and immigrant-descended population." and decries it. Course, can't call him a racist, can we. Just another example of garden variety leftie hypocrisy.

Given the combination of bombings, extreme government control and out of control youth in GB, conflict is just a matter of when not if. Of course, we in Canada will not be able to read about it because the HRC will make it illegal for the media to report it. Given their current attitude, I suppose the MSM would decide to self censor anyway because reporting multicultural friction is not PC.

Leftists and statists always decry the voice that sounds the warning..they never see that there is truth in the words.

Was what Enoch Powell said wrong?
Was it not factual?
Are we not experiencing the problems stated by this man and others?

In fact, were not these warnings understated?

I have one question for those who see nothing wrong with massive unchecked immigration and social re-engineering..

When did you decide to be a cultural apologist?

I remember Enoch Powell and the "Rivers of Blood" speech.

He was unfortunate in one way, he was too early. The insanity of multi-culturalism (whoever voted for that policy?) hadn't yet descended from hippy heaven. Therefore he wasn't capable of framing his argument, nor were his correspondent constituents, and pointing it at the correct target; therefore it came over as racist.

At the time, I was having public arguments (literally shouting matches on trains) about "coloureds", and why they shouldn't be put up gainst a wall (they're just like us). I was arguing against racism; but it was still accepted, by all, that the immigrants adopted British norms.

Not so since the advent of multi-culti.

oh christoph...really ?....fascinating really you know..i've always maintained a sound understanding of the contemporary canon will never lead a 1st 2nd or even a 3rd rate intellect astray !

so...cher colleague ....what have you read recently that may pertain...something that will makle podhoretz shake his head and cry uncle ?

JJM @4.13PM

Just what the world needs, another socialist!!!

I love the way the lefties almost always lead with the race card.Though,they are the ones who always take a person's colour into consideration before any response or reaction because of their abject fear of being called the dreaded 'r' word. That seems to make them the actual racist,hmmmm.

ah Louise ....marry me my dear...finally a woman who appreciates me ...and to meet you here of all places...la!....i wonder if Kate would condescend to be best woman ?

Another thing about the Leftards, they are predictably cynical about anything emanating from their own culture. They refuse to be cynical about any of their "pet" ideas, including their "pet" "minorities" Smacks of Marxism, doesn't it?

And John, to "let something speak for itself" presumes, again, as in a previous post, that there are immutable truths. Do you honestly believe that a Leftard can stomach this? It would mean that they would have to accept that their ideas are bankrupt.

Enoch.

Powell.

Was.

Right.

EM, a heads up, most Muslims(especially the majority belong to the terrorist type - Arabs and Pakistanis) are the same race as us. They are afflicted with a bad religion and 7th century tribal mores. That's the issue. Indians, from India, are also whites. Yep, they are Aryans from the same racial roots. They aren't afflicted with a vicious religion. You seem to be anthropologically challenged when you hurled your racist smear.

Also, the old lefy racist smear to stop any debate or freedom of opinion isn't working so well any more.

I like it though that if you lived next door to a menacing/unlawful slob of a gangbanger of color you'd suffer in silence, too incapacitated to do anything for fear of being smeared by like-minded pc sheeple as a racist.

Typical.

Right on Lori!
Thanks for that!

Deal with it or not:

It's the laydown-surrender mentality of those of us in the West which has allowed the takeover of our societies by those who have chosen our democracies over the tyrannies in their countries of origin--notice, we're not interested in moving to their countries or having to live under their laws, or lawlessness, whichever it is. It's always the other way around. Regrettably, many, NOT ALL, immigrants, have come to Canada, live freely in our democracy, and then use our "openness," "tolerance," and "multicultural diversity" against us and our time-tested values.

Certain immigrant groups are able to do this because we have lost our way as a culture. The culture of the West was built on the solid foundation of Judeo-Christian values, but we in the West have allowed ourselves to suffer historical and spiritual amnesia, forgetting our roots or simply not knowing them, which has meant we have not a leg to stand on. “If you stand for nothing, you’ll fall for anything.” Hmmm. We have no cultural "weapons," if you will, to stem the tide of an invasion of very strongly held values and beliefs—often antithetical to our own—or, until recently, “our own.” We’re afraid these days to admit to and own the Judeo-Christian values upon which our democratic, educational, judicial, and political institutions were built and which have held us in good stead for hundreds of years.

Thus cultural relativism: Hey, all cultures are equal. Well, if that's the case, how come the immigration flow is so lopsided--that is, in one direction only? If Sharia Law and life under the Ayatollahs is so great, how come more of us aren't immigrating to Muslim countries? Why wouldn't I, a woman, want to live, say, in Afghanistan, Iran, or Iraq?

Spiritual and historical amnesia. Willful blindness. Political correctness. Moral relativism: a pox on them all.

'Time to wake up, you sleepy heads in the West. Rub your eyes, get out of bed. OPEN your eyes, look around you, see what's really happening. And stop calling the prophets amongst you, "racists" and "bigots" and taking them to Human Rights Commissions and Tribunals. (Are you listening, Barbara Hall?)

I remember when Toronto was actually a well-run and pleasant city to live in. Though Toronto may be "the most multicultural city in the world," so what? It's always said like a badge of honour, but what it seems to have resulted in is a morass of lawlessness, police afraid to charge anyone with "an ethnic" background, the judiciary afraid to prosecute anyone who is part of a so-called "ethnic minority," and run-of-the-mill citizens running around with blinkers on, pretending that everything's just A-OK, just Hunky Dory, when the infrastructure of Toronto is falling apart at the seams and our streets, parks, and public places are filthy, unkempt, and, often, unsafe.

I agree with Mr. Powell’s statement: “As Mr Heath has put it we will have no ‘first-class citizens’ and ‘second-class citizens.’ This does not mean that the immigrant and his descendent should be elevated into a privileged or special class or that the citizen should be denied his right to discriminate in the management of his own affairs between one fellow-citizen and another or that he should be subjected to imposition as to his reasons and motive for behaving in one lawful manner rather than another.”

This state of affairs seems to be exactly what’s happening in Canada now, and it would be difficult to say that we weren’t warned.

batb, OMG, don't try to inject a little reality here, the leftards are quite allergic to it.

Sounder: I'm allergic to leftards. ;-)

What is happening in Britain, the Netherlands, Belgium etc and still to a lessor extent in the rest of the Free Western Democracies is nothing short of an alien invasion ala flying saucers.

Except that this one is coming on metaphorical flying carpets complete with chanters and what looks a lot like nightshirts and sacks for apparel. Not much in the way of metallic spandex. The tools of conquest are all stolen or borrowed from us. Semtex, rocket launchers, Airliners, the Internet.

There is little will to stop it other than from those few on the right who still value what we have accomplished politically economically and culturally over the past several hundred years.

Too bad, the coming dark age will last a lot longer than we did.

What I say here has nothing to do with race so don't lay that crap on me. It is all about culture, religion and backwardness imposing itself on western guilt and shame. Yes, unbelievably our magnificent caring Left is ashamed of our success .... the embarrassment of riches. It's just not fair eh?

Although, I have never detected this embarrassment in people like the Clintons, the Obamas, G Soros, Fat Albert Gore, The mammoth Michael Moore, David fruit fly Suzuki, Hollywood's finest and that dick head rock star Bono etc etc.

It is almost amusing that the the saviors of our planet are the destroyers of us.

Say, I think it's happy hour now ... I need a drink.

Kate - cleanup in aisle 1; Smith888,4:06 PM

Thanks.

John Begley et al., and thanks for engaging in the discussion, by and large I agree with Enoch Powell's thesis.

Because I agree with him that England is largely destroying itself (although while unchecked Muslim immigration is a large part of it, and the English' reluctance to deal decisively with criminal terrorist elements within it... I think it's biggest problems are their massive numbers of abortions, rampant sexualism of youth without corresponding marriage, growing crime, socialism, etc.), I was disappointed to see the space Powell gave to "Negroes" in his speech, many of whom became British (and Canadian) subjects ages ago during noble anti-slavery work.

The story of the woman who was too afraid to rent her rooms to Negroes and once had someone knock on her door or whatever late at night, but wasn't a victim of crime that I'm aware of, was... well... it weakened what was largely a strong speech, which is why we're discussing it 40 years later.

So I exaggerated my disagreement with Powell to make that point, that I was surprisingly disappointed by Powell's addressing the supposed Negroe problem, and not just sticking to the real problems of different cultures, including large numbers of people immigrating from regions of the world whose dominant religion's radical elements, anyway, call for conquest of Britain.

That said, the British government worker who informed the old lady she wouldn't get anywhere with racial prejudice or whatever was just doing her job. I'm glad to see each generation, including my own, is less racist than the ones before it.

And thank God to Britain for doing a large part of that work, in times past. Canada too, like during the U.S. Civil War, and of course many Americans and others on the right side.

Britain is going to hell in a hand basket alright, but it isn't a racial issue it's a religious and cultural issue. Britain has rolled over and ceded superiority to Islam, even though Muslims make up less than one percent of the population the leftards can't do enough to appease Radical Islam or Political Islam. As a result the Islamists have become the domoninant religion and culture in British society using threats of violence and joining forces with the mewling tards from the left to further the Islamist's agenda, Muslim only swims Muslim only this that and the other thang. The socialist left can't do enough to kill British Culture, really they can't.

It's not the Hindus or Christians or Buddist screaming and rioting pretending to be offended is it. Frankly it has nothing to do with race but religion and culture, the leftarded socialist goberment killed British Culture hoping to replace it with a communist ideology instead they've replace British Culture with seven century Islam. The tards think they can control Political Islamists and their ilk, Eurabia is going to be the death of leftard Ideology we can see what a failure socialism is and stop the spread of it in Canada.

What Rose said.

Here is the 8 part series on Enoch Powell.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFo1xOSlGgg

Christoph,

What is mistaken over and over for racism nowadays is not the belittlement of hatred of a persons genetics, but rather a fear and loathing of those other peoples, regardless of their skin color who are trying to destroy our culture. Our culture is also the culture of many people of different skin color and backgrounds.

The tossing around of the racism insult should end here and now. It is no longer a valid concern. Militant Islam is. So is the congregating of other cultures in ghettos in Western Cities where there is no assimilation into the larger society. IE Jamaicans in North Toronto, Sikhs in Surrey BC, Muslims in Dearborn Michigan etc.

That is the problem we are dealing with, not racism.

The other major problem bundled up in all this is the idiocy of the Leftist collectivists who are just a big a threat to our culture as is radical Islam.

Powell is an uncomfortable read for those raised in today’s' culturally debauched consumptive states (I cannot legitimately use the word "societies"), and his dwelling myopically on immigration as root rather than symptom has unjustly marginalized his more salient points: the asymmetric devastation "one-way privilege" creates in a hitherto complacent host society.

Powell’s comments are, at best, incomplete. In my more contrarian moments, I think uncharitable thoughts of chickens and whirlwinds.

The racial make up of any human can be compared to the hardware of a computer; it is nothing more than the inherited physical characteristics of the framework in which a person exists. It has no real bearing on the quality of that person, even as it may affect physical capability, specific disease resistance or lack thereof, or longevity. The fundamental nature of racism is that it conflates racial characteristics with the culture of its target ethnicity.
Likewise, the charge of racism is most often leveled by those who do the reverse conflation of what the racists do: they assume that the reason you object to the specific standards or accepted and expected actions of a specific culture is because you hate the race – and racial characteristics – of its adherents. In fact, the cultural relativists will allow no other explanation for your judging one culture superior to another. Yet they have their own hierarchy of acceptable cultures (all other cultures are automatically better than Western Culture) and do not believe that they think this because of racism. If you suggested that the reason they object to Nazis was that the Aryan super-race was blond and blue-eyed, and not the because of the incidental genocide, repression and aggressive warfare that the party practiced, they would properly laugh you out of the room.
(There is a subset of anti-Western, irony-challenged thinkers who believe that only whites can be racist. They suggest this seriously, and override objections with the claim that you disagree because you’re racist.)

From something I read recently, I gather that the Conservatives are going heavy duty with immigrant bloc pandering even suggesting various constituencies be given their own "national" holidays.

Sadly, the BNP -- the only political party with serious intentions of doing something about out-of-control immigration -- is genuinely racist in that they apparently refuse membership to non-whites. A remarkably dumb position if it's true. Does anyone know for sure if this is true?

I read the speech a few months back and yeah the "negro" stuff was a bit cringeworthy but I try to remind myself not to backdate current sensibilities to an earlier era.

Re: Trudeau

Saw/heard something today on CTV's Question Period (first time I've tuned in in a very long time) that made my jaw drop.

Craig Oliver said "40 yrs ago today Pierre Trudeau was elected Prime Minister... it seems the longer ago it was the more his blemishes fade and his strengths are magnified...don't you think a lot of Canadians are saying "when cometh such another.""

http://watch.ctv.ca/news/clip47371#clip47371

I don't know about you, but my opinion is the polar reverse and talk about bias...

thee problemo may become Muslim in kanada, but it started long ago by the invassion by a peoples from a Judeo-Kristian country

I am still troubled to see red white and green stickers/emblems on vehicles of people who do not consider themselves as canadians, just people removed from their land of birth for financial reasons!!!!!

"first time I've tuned in in a very long time"

And you won't be making that mistake again, will you? I know the feeling.
It isn't just the bias, but giggles and the elderly owl seem like such amateurish flakes.

Here's an uncomfortable thought for you...

Why? How come we find ourselves in this mess?

The "greatest generation" thought their job was done, so they downed tools. There thinking became insular (again), money became their god (again), they became proud (again), and mortgaged the future. As with Hezekiah, they were content with "peace and security in [their] days".

Chamberlain merely carried on a very old tradition…which is alive and well.

Short-term thinking…

Naïveté…

The reason for this hesitant resurgence of conservatism is the horrifying realization that we have indeed well and truly screwed the pooch. It’s also the reason for the increasing shrillness of the “peace at any price” brigade and the polarization of social discourse. Blame alights…it’s our fault.

“We have met the enemy and he is us.”

Re Trudeau: I'm with you, Gord Tulk.

I was never impressed with PET and the more I get to know about his, already, unimpressive record and the Librano$ he brought on board, not to mention that he was a puppet of Power Corp, the more amazed and disillusioned I become when I realize there are a large number of Canadians who idolize the guy.

You know, the Americans have seen two or three waves of immigration in the last hundred and fifty years and it hasn't done them a pinch of harm until lately.

You had your Scots and Irish wave, your European wave, and lately your Latin American wave.

The difference between pre-1970 immigration and now is primarily socialism and the use of illegal immigrant votes. Without welfare and the DemocRats getting illegals on the rolls to boost their traditional cemetery vote, nobody would care if a bunch of Mexicans came to America. You work, you pay taxes, welcome aboard Juan Valdez.

Maybe Britain should have a look at that concept. If you build it they will come, maybe if you tear it down they will all go home. Jettison the welfare state, give people back their rights to speech, association and self defense, maybe even God forbid their right to keep their own earnings, I bet this whole issue becomes moot.

England 2080 ... Lebanon 2008: Indistinguishable

c. rivers:

You will not be surprised to know I turned it off about 30 seconds after I heard the above out of oliver's piehole. I mean, what would be the point?

I'm just glad that Harper and the CPC are actually doing something about immigrants with their immigration reform bill...now we'll see way more immigrants in Canada!

Jase: "immigrants" aren't the problem ... "race" isn't the problem ... some cultures and religions are. So pick wisely.

aren't the majority of immigrants from a different religion or culture? They're coming from Asia, the middle east and all over so the likelihood of being Christian or of any Western culture is pretty small. All I know is that Canada is gonna look pretty different soon.

I think we are headed for a showdown sooner or later. Today I saw a woman covered -- head to toe -- with those Muslim cover-up garments. It is still shocking to me to see this -- not so much the headscarf, but full face cover is not something that I (or most in our society) are accustomed to seeing. Well, about 1/2 later (and in the same neighborhood), I spotted a woman wearing a little skirt that barely covered her butt. A couple of Muslim (I think) men were walking on the same street. Well, the point I am trying to make is that I do believe we have a clash of cultures here. The woman with the full veil (and her family) must find it shocking to see someone barely dressed. I do not see how two such dramatically different notions about how we should live can survive indefinitely side-by-side.

batb: Though Toronto may be "the most multicultural city in the world," so what? It's always said like a badge of honour, but what it seems to have resulted in is a morass of lawlessness...and public places are filthy, unkempt, and, often, unsafe.

Sounder: batb, OMG, don't try to inject a little reality here, the leftards are quite allergic to it.

Speaking of a little reality, batb and Sounder, Toronto's per capita crime rate is in fact among the lowest in the country. In terms of violent crime specifically, which you seem most afraid of, Toronto's 2007 rate of 738 incidents/100,000 population was lower than such places as London (755/100,000), Calgary (802), Sudbury (908), Halifax (1,261), and Saint John (1,313). All these cities are less culturally diverse than Toronto (source: StatCan, 2007, cat no. 85-002-XIE; google "StatCan crime statistics 2007")

Perhaps it's not the run-of-the-mill citizens who have the blinkers on. And since you're of the belief that multiculturalism breeds criminality, please explain the fact that, despite a steady rise in ethnocultural diversity across the country as a whole, Canada's crime rate been on the decline for the past 25 years.

Of course, I expect you both to completely ignore these facts, but hey, ain't reality grand?

Jase: England and Europe are being injected with largely one religion. That's why they are doomed. Canadian immingrants are a complex mix ... and that is much better, in my opinion. Most groups who immigrate here embrace Western values ... there children born here mix freely with everyone. This is as it should be.

Some though, will never mix. Check out Lebanon.

april 20 , the rise of PET and Hitlers birthday , coinkidink , I think not. both the beginnings of National Socialist movements.

The Phantom: You know, the Americans have seen two or three waves of immigration in the last hundred and fifty years and it hasn't done them a pinch of harm until lately. You had your Scots and Irish wave, your European wave, and lately your Latin American wave.

Actually, with each wave of immigration in the US and Canada came the standard fear-mongering rhetoric of "undesirables taking over the country," their inherently "unassimilable" natures, an inevitable "clash of cultures" that would destroy the country, etc. etc. (hey, that sounds just like the sort of rhetoric that's currently popular here on SDA!).

And each time, it all turned out just fine in the end.

But this time it's, you know, different, right?

I have some personal perspective on this matter. I married a Chinese immigrant, and lived with her and her brother's family for the first four years of our marriage. My brother-in-law had a daughter about 4 years old. One night over dinner, I asked if he was going to send her to a Chinese school. I was kind of shocked at the vociferousness of his reply:

"No way! We live in Canada now, and she's going to be a Canadian".

This doesn't mean they spit on their Chinese traditions, or ignore their background, but it's true - my niece went to regular schools, attended the University of Guelph, graduated with a degree in software engineering, and will be marrying a white Canadian this summer.

These are the type of immigrants I want for Canada; I really don't care if they are brown, black, yellow, or green. What I care is that they buy into Canadian society, and want to raise their children as "Canadians", not hyphenated Canadians, or worse, Muslims who say "Canada is not a real country". Multi-culti, or Joe Clark's ridiculous "community of communities" are a non-starter; they just entrench tribalism and divisiveness.

Powell was right on some things--very right, to the point of prophetic--and wrong on others, like most politicians. The main problem with Powell is that, especially after the UK lost India, he was a true Little Englander, wearing the mantle of paranoid crypto-Catholic High Toryism that's since been picked up by Peter Hitchens: he believed to the end of his life that the United States was one of the principal pernicious evils in the world. And that attitude quite rightly alienated a whole lot of people who could've otherwise been allies, and otherwise see the virtues of some of the rest of what he had to say.

Kevin, I'm with you 100%.

I have no trouble with immigrants - duh! because I am one myself.

And I have no trouble with people of other races - duh! because I am married to someone of a different race and religion.

But I have trouble with one specific religion that has created nothing but trouble everywhere it has gone. And I have trouble with moral and cultural equivalency, because the direction of immigrant and refugee flows in this world makes it perfectly clear which cultures and societies are superior and which are inferior.

And yes, Dan this time is different. Look at England. It is frightening. This never happened before during any immigration wave. And look at the history of lands where Islamic numbers have become significant. Ask Zoroastrians, Coptic christians, Jews, Hindu , Buddhists and African animists what happened as Islam grew in numbers in their lands.

@KevinB:

Says a lot that marrying a white Canadian merits special mention (and tacit approval) in your books.

God forbid that your niece maintain any linguistic links to her cultural background. Would attending Chinese school as a kid really be incompatible with her enrolling at UGuelph, earning a degree, marrying someone outside her ethnicity, and otherwise "buying into Canadian society"?

Dan, ever heard of 'Christmas yet to come'?

Dan - when we came here, my parents forbad non-english speaking in the house after about 3 months in Canada. My spouses family came in as refugees, and the father, from a totally different part of the world, did exactly the same.

30 years and two successful professional careers later, we are both grateful to our parents for their foresight in this issue.

Dan, previous large waves of US immigration came here from separate continents. The lack of proximity to home created a different psychology. Most Mexicans are within driving distance of the border. Mexico is basically reclaiming large swaths of the southwest US. I suggest you read Victor David Hanson's "Mexiflora". His statistics are staggering and it's as much about the assimilation that isn't happening. This IS different this time.

I don't think Quebec has turned out "just fine" for Canada. We don't need a balkanized country within a country here either.

"Per capita crime rate"(what type of crimes?), is a meaningless if one province keeps better statistics or excludes lesser catagories(marijuana possession) while another doesn't. What you've glossed over is that Jamaican gangbangers top the list in committing homicides in Toronto.

Irwin Daisy
"In a country where the last serious race riots erupted seven years ago between white and Asian youths, the head of Britain's equality watchdog called the poll findings "alarming'"

Although maybe not as serious there was also this confrontation.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_Birmingham_riots
Between Pakistanis and West Africans.

Powell was in my opinion correct that uncontrolled immigration would lead to major problems. It is easy in hindsight to be critical of him. What we often forget is that at the time Britain was not an EEC member let alone a member of what became the EU.

Powell focused in hindsight incorrectly on West Indian people probably because many of his constituents were racist and were putting pressure on him to "do something" At the time immigration was running at 5,000 per annum. Now it is effectively uncontrolled since anyone from the EU can enter Britain without let or hindrance.
Mark Steyn focussed on this in an article in the Telegraph
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2005/08/02/do0202.xml
The weak governments in Holland and Denmark gave citizenship to Somalis who had claimed asylum. Almost all of them are economic migrants but the EU is so touchy feely and overloaded with Human Rights guff that they were unable to send them back where they belong. Britain with it's "benefits for all" was a perfect place to come and set up.
Another common ploy is to "marry" a person from the EU and move to the UK. The visa is free and unlikely to be challenged lest the British government incur the wrath of the EU. By the way this doesn't work if you are British. In those cases you have to pay for a visa and prove to the IO that the marriage is subsisting.

Last time I checked Immigration from outside the EU was running at 50,000 per annum, ten times what was the case in Powell's day. Much of this is secondary immigration from the Indian sub continent. As has been noted it is not really a race issue it is a cultural issue and in my view the rise in islamic culture may well result in the death of Britain as we have known it . The death throes will be pretty ugly. I don't honestly see any way of redeeming the situation. One of ZanuLabour's ministers a few years back stated that he saw no upper limit for immigration. With lunatics like that in charge what hope is there?

looky....the problem with muslim immigration is that all these people are involved in a conspiracy...a conspiracy to defraud the government...a conspiracy to avoid contributing to their guest country...a conspiracy to NOT assimilate...their aims are the same throughout the european union...it's an organized conspiracy using our left leaning idealistic democracies and their laws were promulgated reckoning a 10% slacker rate.....NOT 50% unemployed and shiftless.

looky....the problem with muslim immigration is that all these people are involved in a conspiracy...a conspiracy to defraud the government...a conspiracy to avoid contributing to their guest country...a conspiracy to NOT assimilate...their aims are the same throughout the european union...it's an organized conspiracy using our left leaning idealistic democracies and their laws which were promulgated reckoning a 10% slacker rate.....NOT 50% unemployed and shiftless and hostile to boot.

Dan, your comment about the crime rate in Toronto reveals you as an imbecile who can't read simple numbers. Please go back to playing Halo or whatever.

John Begley, are you playing at agent provocateur? "...all these people are involved in a conspiracy..."

If you believe that I've got a bridge in Brooklyn I'd like to sell you.

Dan doesn't know something else either--at least two something elses: young males commit most crime. Due to such facts as our high abortion rate--nearly 3 000 000 since 1970--and low birth rate, the ratio of young males to the total population has decreased. Secondly, however, gun and other violent crime has increased.

So, things aren't quite as pleasant as Dan seems to think they are, e.g., check out the high rate of bullying in schools. It's exponentially higher than it was even a decade ago. Our civilzation's headed south, no doubt about it.

Keep on fiddling, Dan!

lookout: So, things aren't quite as pleasant as Dan seems to think they are, e.g., check out the high rate of bullying in schools. It's exponentially higher than it was even a decade ago. Our civilzation's headed south, no doubt about it. Keep on fiddling, Dan!

Actually, and not to trivialize the problem, bullying rates in Canada have been quite stable over time, and if anything, have declined slightly since 2002: 3w.phac-aspc.gc.ca/dca-dea/yjc/ch5_105_108-eng.php#t

Care to invoke any other wildly speculative claims about the imminent downfall of society that have no basis in reality?

Bit late with this, but here is the prophet's actual speech --

http://www.sterlingtimes.org/powell_speech.doc

And for the truly dedicated a "rivers of blood" screensaver [not checked]

http://www.sterlingtimes.co.uk/rivers_of_blood.htm

Dan,

"Canada's crime rate been on the decline for the past 25 years."

You ever stopped to consider the effect of age/demographics on that number? Of course not, you just abuse the stats you don't understand.

Do you ever wonder why the twits in media and universities can't seem to understand why if the over-all crime rate is dropping that Youth crime is increasing dramatically? That number just happens to be the only number not effected by the aging of the population.

People commit crimes when they are teens to middle age. The baby boom saw a huge increase in crime when the boomers turned of age. This peaked when boomers were in their twenties and has been declining since. BUT, it hasn't been declining as fast as the population has aged because of the increased per capita rate of crime in younger people.

Crime as stated in terms of the number of people in the crime-committing age group has increased. It's the number of this group which has declined.

Although I don't buy into race as being a factor in crime, it's pretty obvious that culture and attitude toward society is. There is a reason why Natives and some other groups have incarceration rates higher than the average and there is a reason why most Asian groups have a lower rate. It's outlook and culture. There is less stigma in some groups than others. Education rates, work ethic, etc all follow the same path. Part of that issue is the level of scapegoating and victimhood that is held by the culture. Hindus from India and Buddhists from China are visible minorities but have more likelihood of financial success than white Canadians. The reason is the respect and focus on education, family and law. These groups culturally are more likely to shun any misbehaviour, less likely to blame whitey if they don't work hard enough to succeed and less likely to shirk their family and social responsibilities.

Race isn't the factor. Raise a black kid or an Indian kid in a family from India living in a middle-class area and they'll top their class at university. Put a kid from India or a white kid on an Indian reserve and their likelihood of being a drunk criminal increases with exposure to poor ideological and cultural surroundings. Lowing expectations, holding the belief that you've been wronged by the world and that you can't succeed so there is no reason to try, accepting poor behaviour from yourself and those around you and giving respect to criminals instead of scholars is a recipe for nothing but failure.

The bottom line is the difference between success and failure isn't race but choice. This is also why even in marginal groups, there are those strong enough to reject their culture's pathologies and succeed in spite of them. The opposite is also true. There are lots of trailer parks full of stirrup-pant wearing single mom's with no education on welfare for the fourth generation raising their 7 little fettle-alcohol-syndrome babies with their smoke hanging out of their mouth.

Warwick: Do you ever wonder why the twits in media and universities can't seem to understand why if the over-all crime rate is dropping that Youth crime is increasing dramatically...because of the increased per capita rate of crime in younger people. Crime as stated in terms of the number of people in the crime-committing age group has increased.

Oh really? Has the per capita rate of crime among youth (12-17) "increased dramatically," as you say, or did it peak in 1991, been on an downward trajectory overall for the past 15 years, and currently rank below mid-1980s levels? Has the per capita youth crime rate flowed roughly in opposition to the overall crime rate during this time, or has it flowed roughly in parallel?

For the answer, see here: 3w.statcan.ca/Daily/English/070718/d070718b.htm. True, it went up in 2006 (for the first time in 4 years), and violent-crime-as-percentage-of-total is up, but overall, the statement "Youth crime is increased dramatically" is grossly overstating the reality. And your claim that demographic shifts have allowed the declining overall crime rate to mask increases in the youth crime rate? Also false--both rates have roughly trended in the same directions.

RE: British emigration. Brown has delights stored up for all his tomorrows. Oh, I so hate shadenfreude, it doesn't become me.

Dan,

Of course, you completely missed my point. I'm not glad that my niece chose a white Canadian as her husband as opposed to a Chinese man; I'd be happy for her either way. But the fact that she chose a white man shows that she's not "locked" into her ethnic background.

How many, say, Muslim girls get to say the same thing?

We must be very careful to continue to make the issue about culture and freedom for all. The mere fact that immigrants are living amongst is not the problem. Immigrants with an antipathy to our freedoms and institutions are the problem not immigrants in general, regardless of colour.