This is good news, Kate. There's no good reason that map you put up a couplya times showing hydrocarbon resource harvesting should end at the Alberta / Saskatchewan border. On the other hand, I wouldn't be too quick to dump on Premier Stelmach. We're pretty much maxed out on support infrastructure here in Alberta, you if you good folks in Saskatchewan are now better positioned to pick up some of the load involved in bringing to the good citizens of the world the rich resources of harvested hydrocarbons, well, I just think that's a really good thing.

"but whatdabout the grin ouse gizzes" Borat Dion

actually all stories on Borat Dion have been conspicuously absent from the MSM especially his biggest fan CBCpravda. when the lieberal MSM dumps you , you have all the chances of a long tailed cat in a room full of rocking chairs. nada nada nada.

Of course oil at $110.00 a barrel has nothing to do with it.

Private businesses are the engine of the economy to create personal and national wealth, growth, profit, and employment.

Instead of cheering the increased amount of tax-take from productive activity, we should be rewarding and applauding those who have created the growth in national wealth.

Acually, the consumer value of the resource as reflected in its market prices has quite a lot to do with it, as you will see if your explore my "Model of the Cost of Solar Power v. Oil", which is available here:

sagaciousiconoclast.blogspot.com/2008/03/solar-power-v-oil.html

Needless to say, these realities of the human social condition may from time to time escape the attention of those who are not interested in reality, who perhaps interestingly typically substitute for this failing by going on and on and on picking nits and casting aspersions.

One month of oil royalties would pay for a brand new covered stadium for the Roughriders. All this wealth and potential and we are stuck with an ugly, old, and crappy embarassment of a football field.

One month of oil royalties would pay for a brand new covered stadium for the Roughriders. All this wealth and potential and we are stuck with an ugly, old, and crappy embarassment of a football field.

I'm delighted to see my pals and in-laws (just up the highway from you in Biggar) get the loot. 'Cause after 15 years of NDP government things like potholes will need to be fixed.

Mr. Ed played a big part in this but the recent successes of companies like this http://www.petrobank.com/can-bakken.html in unlocking the bakken field and it potential 400 Billion bbls - 1/3 of which are in SK has a lot to do with it.

AB is no longer the best conventional oil play in NA - not by a long shot.

Just last week the volte face:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080410.wroyalties0410/BNStory/Business/

proves that stelmach and co screwed the pooch and have left AB's reputation in the O&G sector - a product of decades of effort - in tatters.

actually alot to do with it is the perpetually nasty ERCB employees that depend on a very poorly adminstrated electronic system , the snivel servants at the ERCB are right next to Revenue Canada in terms of being "soup nazis" for licences and applications, "you spelt ERCB as EUB" no licence for you.

where as the energy folks in Saskatchewan are always helpful and quick. The ERCB helpline is staffed with the most acidic folks they could find if you can find one that speaks english. they better get used to working with a depleting basin which is 90% drawn.

Ed and the Redmonton types dont even realize how obnoxious their employees at the ERCB have become.

It's not a zero-sum game, folks, I don't see the need for greed. Of course, I don't see how Borat Dion, Mr. Ed, or Redmonton add to the considered discussion of the issues at hand either, so what do I know?

This new announcement for deep wells will help the small producers here in Alberta. The direction of the bore does not have to be straight down, if any of the stinking moronic media types had only read the release, there is incentive to directional drill from an existing platform and recieve credits as if it was a deep well. But we did send a little business Sask's way and that isn't all bad since they woke up in that province and stuck the red hot poker up the ... of the ndpeers.

Evidently, the Stelmach government has belatedly realized that the goose with the auriferous ovaries is feeling kind of poorly; they have announced a $237 million program of deep drilling incentives: http://www.oilweek.com/news.asp?ID=15334

Needless to say, they strenuously deny that this is an effort to placate an industry that took exception to a heavy-handed royalty grab, but if you believe that, you probably also believe in the Tooth Fairy.

This probably translates to potential work for me, and deep wells are good wells. Lots of days, and less mad panic with fast drilling. Life is good!

Your Welcome. Couldn't have done it for a nicer neighbor. ;)

That's how I see it too, Len. Welcome aboard,
Saskatchewan, we look forward to working with you.

Borat, Mr Ed, Redmonton-

one only has to look at Texas with similar sized basin, a lower royalty rate , lower reserves and see how much wealth can be created without the skim or the skim of the skim. Texas has a boom going while not collecting their fair share or the izzy money. the wealth has gone to the people. all 24 million of them. their wealth is built around the service industry and extracting every molecule of hydrocarbon at the lowest cost , not endless bureaucracy , taxes, fair shares, whining farmers and raft of civil servants. though one could argue that Alberta supports 33 million souls as ontario and BC have slipped below the line.

Sure, Cal, yet it remains that case that the social spaces have different histories. Unless one wants revolution, change happens at the margin. I doubt most of us want revolution, because we're all too well off. Therefore, I celebrate positive changes at the margin ~ the margin in practice, not in theory.

>>"$237 million program of deep drilling incentives"

[...]"This probably translates to potential work for me, and deep wells are good wells. Lots of days, and less mad panic with fast drilling. Life is good!"

Life is good.

I will think of the deep well incentives whenever I hear folks in the patch belly aching about farm subsidies. Only for some reason farm subsidies don't come with less mad panic.

Somehow the Alberta patch is so blessed that it even manages to mine blessings out of the black hole of government support.

one only has to experience the tremendous wealth of our southern neighbours as I did last week to see that despite the continous finger wagging by the socialists up in Candaduh,that theirs is a more successful experiment than ours , and starting off on the same starting gun. If that is a recession down there, I want a part of it.

as a nation that owns 25% of the world economy with less than 6% of the population is a success that could likely only be matched by Rome. but to do it while maintaining freedom as a prime directive is nothing more than astounding.

off to watch the late night shows now. will think more about providing all those Albertans with their fair share tomorrow while making that izzy money Borat Dion so envies us for.

but thank Saskatchewan for cutting out the redtape that makes Alberta and absolute pain in the butt to work with now.

Leslie:

How are royalties - a tax - a subsidy? That AB had gotten their schedule out of whack with the competitive reality and thus with its tail between its legs reduced them is in no way the same as a farm subsidy.

"Deep drilling incentives"

And now that I think about it the idea that 'royalty' and 'tax' have come to enjoy the same definition underlines the attitude of entitlement that comes with an industry so blessed it can mine blessings out of the government. It's a slight distinction between the two words perhaps, but an important one.

Don't get me wrong, I'm no opponent to the patch.

I just think there are more things out of whack than simply Ed Stelmach and a royalty schedule.

Tail between it's legs? I think not.

These are just normal adjustments to the trough enthalpy.

(Speaking metaphorically, of course.)

Yeah, yeah, I know, people come here to complain about what's out of whack, not what's not out of whack, just like the crime-blotter main-stream media; sorry I interrupted, I'll go away now and stop pestering you.

Good night, everyone, best wishes ;-)

Wow, and just months ago Brad Wall & Company were spreading doom & gloom, telling everyone that Saskatchewan's finances were in a 'stark' state.

Turns out they weren't telling the truth on that.

What a surprise.

brad wall @ co are doing just fine stephen and if you got a problem with that then you move away.

Quote "One month of oil royalties would pay for a brand new covered stadium for the Roughriders. All this wealth and potential and we are stuck with an ugly, old, and crappy embarassment of a football field."

Yup and there you go wasting money on toys. Ever consider putting some money BACK into true infrastructure?

noddyrules wrote: "One month of oil royalties would pay for a brand new covered stadium for the Roughriders. All this wealth and potential and we are stuck with an ugly, old, and crappy embarassment of a football field."

I'm shocked; I would expect better from the hardy fans of Saskatchewan. You recall that Montreal had one of those covered stadiums but the Als now play their games outdoors. Imagine! 'Riders fans wanting to watch football in a giant rumpus room like their counterparts in Vancouver and Toronto! Pah!

wow, sask as a have province.

The best thing about more Sask govt munney is that there will be more and bigger subsidies for farmers, eh Manny?

And Vit is right.

Us big, wealthy and magnanimous Albertans are always happy to give a hand up to the less fortunate, like the old home country of Sask.

Better roads, stronger whiskey, faster wimmin,...
here comes SASKATCHEWAN!

Looks like the lights are back on in Sask!

To all the idiots that somehow thought that the oil ended at Alberta's borders - take note that it is an "open for business" government that gets things done.

I just wish I had bought property there five years ago..sigh.

To noddyrules.

I agree. The Roughriders would greatly benefit from a new stadium (and maybe even a big new hockey arena - that would support the junior league, Pats, etc. but would possibly support an NHL team).

The Riders are the CFL equivalent of the Green Bay Packers (they both have green jerseys even) and if you've ever been to Green Bay it is amazing to see the community support and how the community optimizes Lambeau Field sort of like the way that Regina supports the Riders (which is pretty unique in professional sports). It would be economically viable if done right.

I suspect property values in Saks two major cities to increase exposnentially...There is one thing that has to be done so Sask, metro areas rejuvinate with upscale influx...

...first they'll have to get the crack whores and gang bangers on a bus to Toronto or Vancouver for free methadone, injection sites and welfare housing...new gangs are always welcome in Millerville (formerly TO)....where it's the olympic target shooters in that city that are responsible for street handgun shootings not ethnic gangs. Regina's loss is TO's gain in that migration. The more gangs the better TO loves 'em...send 'em yours.

The economy in Alberta was just to hot, the increase in royalties helped cool it and helped the fledgling government of Sask get a boost.This is just what is needed for the west to increase it's population base.All three western provinces are doing just fine. Now all we need to do is figure out how to get Manitoba rolling. The more people we can pull out of central Canada the more power we will have in Ottawa.

One month of oil royalties would pay for a brand new covered stadium for the Roughriders. All this wealth and potential and we are stuck with an ugly, old, and crappy embarassment of a football field.

Posted by: noddyrules at April 15, 2008 12:42 AM

Are you an NDPer or just having a hard time sweeping the cobwebs of socialist rule out of your thinking? Are you really saying the government (taxpayers) should be building a football stadium? So the people who live in Estevan should pay for a building for a private business they will most likely never use? That's not very conservative.

Ultimately the oil and gas companies will still be headquartered in Calgary. The engineering will still be done out of Calgary. The majority of the material supplying will be done out of Alberta. Most of the construction companies will be headquartered in Alberta. After all those years of sending us your people for labour now you can send us all your money. Alberta thanks you Saskatchewan.

Thanks Ed, for sending Sask a helping hand.

More activity will help the Sask Party to loosen the tax load, which leads to more opportunities.

Are they still selling lots in Herbert for $1.00?

Saskatchewan could have been booming and prosperous many years ago except for years of socialist government with the NDP. BC had the same experience with the Glen Clark NDP govt. Glad to see the citizens in Sask. have seen the light.

You'd have to be some kind of lefty tool to think that NOT applying a fee or surcharge or tax to an activity is the same thing as a subsidy!

Calculating how the Government has LOST money on revenues that it never got in the first place through fees that it invented but has yet to charge...... NDP style economics.

OMMAG, listen:

"$237 million program of deep drilling incentives"

[...]"This probably translates to potential work for me, and deep wells are good wells. Lots of days, and less mad panic with fast drilling. Life is good!"

The mindset is the same...thanks to the government more money in my pocket, air of entitlement, life is good. On second thought, you're right, it's nothing like farm subsidies.

In other news, thanks to the strong dollar and the hideous stupidity of McGuinty's Liberals, Ontario is on course to start -receiving- equalization payments from the Feds in 2010.

Another triumph for the Ontario Liberal Party. Way to go, boys. You're everything we've come to expect from socialists.

So Albertans are set to take Ontario's place as the Engine of Canada. NEP^2 anyone?

FYI guys:

Stelmach is now making noise about a Western Canadian free trade zone which includes B.C., Alberta and Saskatchewan.

The population of this new economic engine of Canada is 8.5 million (4 mill in B.C., 3.5 mill in Alberta and 1 mill and growing in Saskatchewan).

That's well beyond Quebec's 7 million without proper Parliamentary representation.

As a person who was raised in Alberta and is married to a gal from Shaunavon, Sask., I am glad Saskatchewan finally kicked out the Fabian socialists. So's my wife, whose grandparents were among the group close to the Tommy Douglas legacy.

Welcome to the free world, ya combine pilots!

As you fine people will soon find out, it costs money to build roads, schools and hospitals for the large influx of population that's going to be arriving soon.

How to pay for it? Eventually, the royalty rates on oil will have to be raised to a level that's closer to Alberta's.

Saw premier Wall on TV the other day and he said there's a built-in labour force already there. It's just a matter of tapping into the 40% unemployed on your reserves.

I'm sure, like in Alberta, many will decide that working for a good paycheque beats blaming whitey for their problems and waiting for their ‘entitlement' pittance from Ottawa. At least, I'd hope that's what will happen. It would be best for all concerned.

"The mindset is the same...thanks to the government more money in my pocket, air of entitlement, life is good. On second thought, you're right, it's nothing like farm subsidies."

I think you are misreading my comments. Giving back part of an outrageous tax grab is not a subsidy. The Stelmach government screwed up, but, being politicians, they are not about to admit it, so they simply devised a scheme to salve over some of the worst-hurt parties.

If the Alberta government had not back-tracked on this particular area, I'd still be working. I was in B.C. this Winter, and I've worked in Saskatchewan on several occasions, too. The deep wells are the plum jobs, beat those Lloydminster gopher holes all to hell, so if the new incentives cause more of the former to be drilled, I won't be complaining.

I'm somewhat less dissatisfied with the Stelmach government than I used to be, but I'd still rather have had Ted Morton as Premier.

Posted by: Vitruvius at April 15, 2008 1:03 AM

I agree, but that's just an Easterners view.

Being an Easterner and not especially knowledgeable on this subject, maybe someone can help me out here. Why is Crown Land being sold? Why is it not being leased?

And Cal, Posted by: cal2 at April 15, 2008 1:16 AM

About those whining farmers, if the government and agricorp hasn't done them in first, they will still be around after the Black Gold is gone. Do you take your Texas Tea with milk??

Hugger

I see there are no shortage of navel gazers offering their insight.

Brings to mind a bumper sticker once popular in some parts;

God, please let there be another oil boom

And this time, I promise I won't piss it all away.

Remember, ye of short memory, all good things come to an end.

Then what?

Sadly, Honestly Ignorant Ed called an election before a conservative party (in deed, not just in name) was able to organize against them. As Ed puts his ignorance and arrogance to practice by strangling the golden goose, Sask and BC get to enjoy the billions of investment now flowing out of Alberta.

Dave:

May I remind you of how Albertans voted? Or would you prefer to be ignorant of the fact that Albertans voted for what was best for the province, not what's best for Calgary's head office clientele formerly serviced by Ralph Klein?

Can you articulate one good reason why B.C. and Saskatchewan should be unable to develop their oil industry while Alberta's overheated economy takes a breath?

Gordon, sorry to have over-focused on your own comments -- they only set me to thinking about attitudes that waft through Calgary and elsewhere. I should have said that earlier. The oil industry is so wide spread and affects everyone differently and to me, the main issue that gets forgotten is the question of ownership.

As one example, landowners give up a lot in terms of property rights for the good of the industry and that is the very thing that gets missed when discussing Ed Stelmach's "tax grab". Royalties are a fee for use of something that doesn't belong to the user. Taxes are fees calculated on what you *do* own.

There's a huge philosophical difference there and while I don't see any advantage to squashing industry I see lots of pitfalls to giving it free rein. If landowners had the right to refuse drilling on the top six inches of soil they own, giving them a card to play when negotiating lease prices etc, that might be different in my mind, but they don't so then it's an industry who is both not only limited, but also *empowered* by government rules & regulations. Begging the question, who owns what's under there.

It's a pendulum, no? After Leduc 1, the province oriented itself to nurture industry (a very good thing) then eventually it's -- set my own price, more money in my pocket, the culture of entitlement comes next, life is good. It's a natural progression.

I'm a fan of the oil & gas industry. It's a big part of why I'm proud to be an Albertan. It's just a little too easy to point all the fingers at Ed.

Leslie:

Pretty much bang-on. I also appreciate the contribution the oil industry has given to improving the quality of life in Alberta, a change that Saskatchewan and B.C. are quite welcome to pursue.

I particularly like your observation about the evolution of the attitude of entitlement and the arrogance of Big Oil and its supporters.

Granted, oil is the largest contributor to Alberta's well-being, but it's not the only one.

A person only has to look at the difference between oil monolith Calgary and Edmonton, which has a diverse, culturally-rich population.

It should be a lesson for Saskatchewan to not sell out its unique culture in the name of excessive greed. A bit of ‘greed' is a good motivator ... too much leads to the type of arrogance we have seen here.

Just scroll back and see for yourself how it manifests itself in name-calling and other characterizations of the premier if he does not goose-step into the wishes of Big Oil.

The blind leading the blind.

The trumpeteers of Alberta's successes should check out Finland. Their version of the Heritage fund stands in the vicinity of 350 Billion. They should also humbly thank that Atlantic Canadian Rebel, Danny Williams for showing them how to get 'er done.

End of the day, sure sounds like a kid born with a silver spoon in its mouth.

Hugger

crown land is leased never sold. the land is bought at land sales for a bonus , the bonus is paid and called the sale, you dont own it. you pay a rental on it after that and you pay a royalty on production.

farmers get surface lease rentals in addition to the government if the mineral rights under their land are leased by the government, on freehold land the farmer often keeps the royalty as well and the oil company pays a tax to the government, freehold mineral tax.

the bureaucracy in Alberta is what slows the process down.

the feds collect income tax as well.

"A person only has to look at the difference between oil monolith Calgary and Edmonton, which has a diverse, culturally-rich population."

Let me guess that you live in the City of Chumps. This particular 'cultural superiority' screed has been going on since Edmonton's ivory tower clashed with Bible Bill back in the thirties. Aintcha got nuthin new?

I am still waiting for some answers. The questions weren't all that difficult. Were they?

Semper Fi.

Hugger

Hello Kate,

Care to offer some insight?

Please consider, I have scars.

Love, Hugger

Check up the thread. I think Cal2 answered your question, Greg.

Hey Brad why not give me a break on the Education taxes(the highest in Canada)on my house. The real question is,Is Brad Wall a tax cutter or a TAX and Spend Liberal in Sask Party Clothes?

May I remind you of how Albertans voted? Or would you prefer to be ignorant of the fact that "Albertans voted for what was best for the province, not what's best for Calgary's head office clientele formerly serviced by Ralph Klein?

Can you articulate one good reason why B.C. and Saskatchewan should be unable to develop their oil industry while Alberta's overheated economy takes a breath?"

Well "set you free", very few Albertans voted at all, possibly b/c non-socialists had no options to vote for. If the Liberals wanted to capitalize on Ed's ignorance of basic economics, they could have resisted the "us vs them" illogic Ed used to set the ignorant against their hand that feeds. Instead, they chose to be even more out-of-touch, and got absolutely hammered. The few Albertans that voted chose the least-socialist option available. Had they been given a real choice, there would have been an actual contest.

There is no need for you to go on with your Ralph Klein rant. Many Calgarians would also have prefered a conservative as a premier, but we got Ralph instead.

Lastly, please stop with the strawman argument. I never suggested that Sask. and BC should be held back from developing their oil industry. I would never wish a Trudeau, Chavez, or Stelmach upon them. They, b/c of Alberta's misfortune (having had liberals tamper with the election of the conservative leadership) now have a golden opportunity to prosper. Hopefully, Sask doesn't elect a leftist down the road who plays on the ignorant, demanding "our fair share", which history shows is never "fair" enough so long as the citizens who take all the risks, quietly suffer losses, and develop all the innovations, make anything more than leftards consider "fair" at the time.

Truth be told, I think maybe farmers are making more than their "fair share" of profits on grain sales. After all, all they have to do is plant stuff in the soil and watch the money flow. Plus, their fertilizers are bad for the environment. Perhaps they should be forced to buy Fertilizer-credits to offset their damage. Also, a percentage of their income (not their profits) should go to the "people". Sound good to you, "set you free"? If you don't agree, you must be part of "Big Wheat", what with their ties to Regina and all...

Manitoba wants their cut.

Dave:

Notice how the Stelmach Tories have as big a representation as Lougheed and Klein ever had?

The people have spoken and how many voted or did not vote matters not.

If Stelmach tapped the brakes on Alberta's economy for a while, so what?

Time for our good neighbours to the east to shine and nail down the type of lifestyle Alberta has enjoyed.

As they say on the farm: ‘Make hay while the sun shines.'

Oil will not be here forever. In about 100 years, many people will have to return to the land.

BTW. I've visited farms, but have never lived on one. Sounds like you have a superiority complex against farmers.

Gong to you.

Glad to see the citizens in Sask. have seen the light.

It'll take more than a change from socialism to socialism lite to make the Backward Province more than a retirement community.

Attitude is everything, and the Backward Province doesn't have it. More than sixty years of socialism has seen to that.

As of April 15 Alberta has 63 rigs drilling. The Backward province has 9. The proof is in the pudding.

Posted by: Dave at April 15, 2008 9:41 PM

Straight out of the Oil Cartel's Jr. Executive handbook?

That's a special kind of fertilizer, wot?

Hugger

Posted by: ol hoss at April 16, 2008 5:50 AM

Wa'll, ol hoss, you've heard the story of the Tortoise and the Hare, right?

Now the way I sees it, if them fellers in Sas catchy wan manage things right, what with oil being at $114 a barrel, it shouldn't take them long to put away 35 Billion or so.

Now how much oil did them Alie bertans pump out of the ground at $20 or $30 bucks a barrel do ya figger?

Pa...

Posted by: cal2 at April 15, 2008 6:18 PM

Posted by: Kate at April 15, 2008 8:30 PM

Thanks, I was just wondering about how different it might be there to how it's done here. All we have here is surface rights, and your ability to negotiate access is limited by legislation. They can force you to co-operate and to provide an area for an access road. No royalties whatsoever to the land owner.

Bureaucracy is the art of self perpetuation, designed and practiced by legions of Sybil Servants everywhere. So don't feel picked on, they are like locusts. They are not fussy where they feed.

Now how much oil did them Alie bertans pump out of the ground at $20 or $30 bucks a barrel do ya figger?

Enough to make Alberta the richest province in Canada. Who's the tortoise and who's the hare? Considering the choice is $20 - $30 versus get rich quick $114?

Kinda trapped yourself on that one.

It'll take more than a change from socialism to socialism lite to make the Backward Province more than a retirement community.

One thing it's going to take is to get freeloading farmers like ol hoss a real job and out of the public trough.

Anything that gets us oil service guys that got caught in Stelmach's meddling back to work (in Canada) quicker is welcome.
Immediately after the "Royalty Review" annoucement last September, my contracts were suspended until further notice. After Knight's "will not blink" statement, the jobs started to disappear and the writing was on the wall. By December the winters work that had been arranged was gone. I was forced to layoff my employees (before Christmas!), tighten the lid on Company expenditures and start looking overseas.
Might sound exotic but it isn't. Until you have suffered a Siberian winter or rural Indian monsoon with substandard equipment and work practices to provide for your family on the otherside of the world you will not see Stelmach and Co. for what they are. Incompetent, cowardice fools interested in political power mongering instead of proper governance.