OMG!

You'll have to pry my government supplied needle from my cold dead hands before you can take it away from me.

Welcome to JohnnyDingo's Canada.

NO BLOOD FOR NEEDLES!

Hmmmm, its just not catchy enough for progressives. Also, its kinda confusing. We're gonna need some better marketing here people.

And Regina wonders why it's always the "Worst City in Canada"??

But I'm sure none of this has anything to do with out-of-work Native populations, does it?

RG

What a message the government is sending to the kids. Free clean needles, nothing to fear here kids. Not just that, but the moron socialist know that part of the needle culture is the sharing of needles, it is a bonding ritual. They would really like you to believe needle users not only care about their health, but the health of society in general. It is a sick joke, and a waste of government money.

The stupid idealism of these leftover morons never ceases to amaze me, they just don't have a rational common sense bone in their body. We have these same boneheads here in Victoria creating havoc and turning our downtown into a sewer full of druggies and panhandlers.

It is the left-wing-socialist liberal attitude instilled into the Canadian population since Pierre came along. "If you make a wrong decision, it is not your fault. Rather is is the fault of those who made the right decision and they will pay dearly for your wrong decision".

Wait until it is decided that murder should be punished by showering the perpatrator with money as it was our fault he or she commited the crime.

Ironic example of government carrying out what could be described with leftwing-style hyperbole as "genocide" while Kate is being accused leftwing-style of Hate Speech for ironically pointing this out.

All your irony are belong to us.

Getting off topic here, but I just have to comment on Kinswilsuya's blog article stating that he doesn't understand why PM Harper didn't speak after his visit to Auschwitz yesterday.

Is Kinswilsuya that sick that he would twist Harper's dignity and respect for the victims, to try and make it something questionable? Or is because Kinswilsuya wouldn't recognize dignity or respect because of his political and social affiliations?

What did he expect him to do, what Kinswilsuya would most likely do? Wear an ipod, and listen to punk rock music during the tour.

Harper isn't a liberal. He wasn't going for the photo shoot, and the opportunity to pull a couple of phoney glib lines out of his back pocket that would look good in the msm back home.

When I worked as a Medic in San Diego CA. The city did the same thing in our major park. We would find these needles everywhere.

What a huge mistake.

Yup ... as a guy I worked with , who escaped from Communist Hungary in the 60's would bitterly say ... "Everything the government touches turns to ashes!"

... another success story.

HoneyPot, you're living up to your name.

WK said or implied nothing of the sort. Go back and read it again, out loud if necessary.

Cheers,
lance

Interesting. You do realize that, in Saskatchewan, only diabetics who are classed as 'low income' or have 'high drug costs' get their needles for free?

Interesting especially considering that, in Saskatchewan, only diabetics who are classed as 'low income' or as having 'high drug costs' get their needles for free:

http://www.gov.sk.ca/news?newsId=5a09ca48-ba57-4043-8cfe-9ed1ad77b9fa

Zurich Switzerland did the same thing in the early 90's and it was so bad the place where they distributed the needles was nicknamed "Needle Park".

But at least the Swiss were clever. In the public washrooms (pay for use) , they used a light source which was slightly bluish and it was not possible to see the veins in the arm under that light !

Proof that my beloved home province has been a socialist paradise for far too long!

No Needles, No Funeral.

I read it, and I know what Kinswilsuya is trying to imply.

THE PRIME MINISTER AT AUSCHWITZ

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Monday, April 7, 2008, 08:41 AM
Squinting at the computer screen, as I was and am, I found myself nodding at Norman's assessment of this report in the Star, yesterday. What, exactly, was the point being made? That he should have said something, but didn't? That he should have been silent, but was not sufficiently emotional? It was quite bizarre, as Mr. Spector noted.
***************************
Main Entry: 1bi·zarre
Pronunciation: \bə-ˈzär\
Function: adjective
Etymology: French, from Italian bizzarro
Date: circa 1648
: strikingly out of the ordinary: as a: odd, extravagant, or eccentric in style or mode b: involving sensational contrasts or incongruities
**************************

Only Kinswilsuya would find something bizarre in our PM's showing dignity and respect for the victims of the death camps.

I read an article that stated down east some moron is putting used needles on park benches so you get stuck if you sit down. The police had to check the park benches. There is an attempt to hide them.

What else is one to make of this other than the government pushing a get addicted program:

Free Needles. Try it you'll like it.

The program only needs one dead body and one good lawsuit against the government to end it.

in Africa if you are addicted they chain you to a bed for 3 months here we are willing to let you and the people you steal from around you suffer from your addiction for decades until they die.

Some cultural values I'm willing to import.

Do socialists show up at AA meetings loaded with booze?

I kid you not, I see needles in the tributaries of Lk. Ontario when I fish the river mouths for steelhead and salmon., Ganaraska (Ganny), Humber, Credit.
That little orange cap stands out in the water.
I foolishly picked up the first one because I couldn't believe it was a needle.

Good thing the water is too polluted with fecal matter from geese and dog droppings for the kids to swim in it anymore.

The whole idea of handing out free needles to druggies always struck me as the equivalent of giving free booze to alcoholics. If we ever did the latter, would it surprise anyone to see the streets littered with empty bottles? Same goes for the free needle gimmick.

Not to get embroiled in the evil of drugs argument, but why aren't the needles on an exchange basis? One for one?
Actually, they could make that 'bring in two...get one free' initially, in order to get the loose ones picked up.

I'm of two minds about this issue (and no, I'm not schizophrenic...shut up, yes you are...no, no I'm not).

Yes, "if you build it, they will come". But if you don't "build it", they will STILL use drugs the same amount BUT with a much greater risk of increasing the spread of disease...which, in turn, drives up the health costs that we all have to pay for anyway.

The only solution (that I see) then would be to NOT cover the health costs of such self-inflicted illnesses. I'm okay with that, but how can you truly enforce such a system and not risk letting "an innocent victim" fall through the cracks?

Excluding someone from health care coverage for injuries or illnesses directly related to illegal activities is one thing (and in today's mixed up world, that would be tough enough)...what about other "legal" self-inflicted injuries such as smoking, alcohol abuse, etc. or as suggested earlier, by riding motorcycles without a helmet? What politician or political party is ever going to effectively martyr themselves to pass such legislation?

Regarding the distribution of needles, the question to explore would be...ARE we reducing potential health care costs MORE than the total cost of supplying the needles (and picking them up, of course)? If there is a cost-benefit to this, then supply the needles; if not, don't.

Is there a net benefit to society? That's the question to ask, IMHO.

I am sure Kinsella is the type who can never put his blackberry down. He has it in hand while investigating bathrooms, attending Barrymore's, probably each Sunday when he devoutly attends church he is probably typing away. Being present, he doesn't understand what it means to be engaged.

The PM is going to get crap from his/our "alleged" liberal moral superiors no matter if he says something or not. Best to say nothing then. Let his critics make up their own stuff.

Brian, the blue light washrooms are also in Sydney Australia. Weird but it does make the places somewhat safer.

I am a former detox nurse.

Why are we enabling drug abusers? If they want to kill themselves, go ahead, but not on my dime. This is bleeding heart Socialism at its worst. Why sink more money into this quicksand?

An even greater waste of money is building them safe injection sites. This does nothing but concentrate all the crime and low-lifes of the world into one area.

Addicts participate in this behavior because they enjoy it and want to die. They play the system well. Let them do it. Their poor choice is not my problem!!

I'll spring for the pine box when their torture is finally over.

I wonder when these geniuses, who concoct these government programs, will come up with one that will supply my son with his needles and insulin, which is used to prevent him from simply dying?

Needles and recreational drugs for self abusers, but 'go away and die' letters from Revenue Canada when applying for the disability tax credit (2003). Rev Can eventually rolled over after I sent the Feds my "you can send your proposition to straight to Hell letter."

I MIGHT get a letter of apology from Rev Can sometime when 'hell freezes over', because of course the administrative or permanent government is always right.

I remain doubtfully yours,

Hans-Christian Georg Rupprecht BGS, PDP, CFP

Commander in Chief

Frankenstein Battalion

2nd Squadron: Ulanen-(Lancers) Regiment Großherzog Friedrich von Baden(Rheinisches) Nr.7(Saarbrucken)

Knecht Rupprecht Division

Hans Corps

1st Saint Nicolaas Army

Army Group “True North”

We had addicts before we had free needles, and we will continue to have addicts regardless of how you want to hunt them down. People love drugs. Always have, always will.

And don't kid yourself: drugs are used across all layers of society. Richer folk are just smarter about it and tend not to get caught (unless their names happen to be Paris or Britney). Richer folk are the reason drugs are everywhere, too. It's not the skidrow addicts that pay the bills.

Don't confuse the effects of the drugs with the effect of prohibition. Drugs don't cause Hep-C, AIDS, or diabetes. Legal drugs in known purity and strength also eliminate overdose.

Drugs also don't cause criminal behavior. That's our little myth that makes us feel good.

Easy money and an underground economy: that's what causes crime.

What controls drug use? Social disapproval! Where drugs are freely available, the rate of use doesn't change because in reality most people want nothing to do with them, and whether they are available over the table or under it doesn't change that.

This is one case where the guvment has again caused the problem. Get the government out of the prohibition business and crime and disease will decrease - and weirdly enough, so will drug use.

That reminds me, I have to ask my wife if she pays for her Insulin Needles i honestly do not know.

What the hell are you people complaining about?! This is a very successful government program here!

They are redistributing the wealth from those who do not deserve it to those who don't have it. that's the purpose of modern government.

And once they get enough people hooked on junk, the process will go a lot faster.

We have the same program here in Ottawa and it too is a catasthrope. The bright lights named it harm reduction program and it is quite the opposite as used syringes were regualarly scattered in our downtown parks and back allies and many times right in parks where kids would be playing. You'd often see people shooting up right on the front porches of homes and vestibules of apartment complex not ever worrying about their spend drug equipment. We even hand out crack pipes to addicts because we think encouraging drug use will actually stop it. No, ain't going to stop it that's for sure. These leftards simply don't have that much wisdom as they keep making the same mistakes over and over again, hoping for a different result.

The reason you give out needles is because it is a hell of a lot cheaper then dealing with the medical costs of the spread of HIV, hepatitis and other blood diseases. Needles are also cheaper then incarceration.

It is also cheaper then offering free treatment to these addicts and it is cheaper then dealing with the underlying social problems that led to the addiction in the first place.

Sure get rid of the needles and watch our healthcare cost soar.

Whatever: There is not one bit of proof that needle programs save lives.

In Saskatoon, Hep A and HIV have continued to go up.

Kate,

Have a look at this article. It is from 2003, but likely still applies. It is on how diabetics in SK can only get free supplies such as needles, syringes, etc if they are low income.

"The drug plan is targeted to people with high drug costs, low incomes, or a combination of both. Over 15,000 people with diabetes who currently receive benefits through the Saskatchewan Drug Plan will see their benefits increase to cover diabetic supplies."

http://www.gov.sk.ca/news?newsId=5a09ca48-ba57-4043-8cfe-9ed1ad77b9fa

Saskatchewan: Making it pay to be a heroin addict.

Whatever, if you want cheap, the way to go is to get rid of welfare. That way the "poor" are too busy working to lie around stoned all the time.

The underlying social problems in this case are bad policing and government support of drug dealer income through welfare.

Tax cut now please.

Just a question that the health regions should consider. I believe that they would be liable if some child or adult accidently pricked themselves with one of these used needles left in the public domain. By participating in an activity that is well documented and researched as being a high health risk and illegal. The health regions I believe could be found guilty in participating and complicent in illegal activities that are a high health risk to the public as a whole. Common sence is not in the Leftards vocabulary. this type of thing has to stop and this is just the tip of many other stupid initiatives that the leftards are committing against the public.

Umm, is there any way to delete a comment? Someone sent me that in an email this morning and then I read the post, commented, and then read the comments section. Curses!

In Saskatoon this program is called Harm Reduction. Isn't that a nice bit of Socialist spin.

The only medical treatment drug users should get is palliation during the end stages of their self-inflicted diseases. This would keep health care costs low.

Interesting logic, Kate.

"Built it and they will come."

I wonder, does this principle hold true on the topic of gun control? If we curtail supply to the public, according to your statement, wouldn't there necessarily be less gun-related crime?

I see that you're a fan of remix videos. Here's one for you:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T17tRPxRWe0

I have to agree with the leftist thinking on this one. Saskatoon and Regina are clearly failed cities. We should withdraw from Saskatoon and Regina. We all know that people from Saskatoon and Regina are different from us; they don't have our same traditions of hard work and showers. They have a different definition of work and cleanliness than we do. The war on drugs is a quagmire akin to the war on poverty. The drugs of mass addiction were never found. "Tommy Douglas railed, people were impaled". We should pull out now.
Or sorry, lefties, does this line of thinking only apply to poor peasants genuinely attempting to improve their level of education and life expectancy in the face of murderous, luddite, repressive, barbarians? I am truly trying to be "progressive".

"Look, see how I care for the drug addict over there? If I care that much about him, imagine how much I care about you, my little voter."

At some point, there is a first time a junkie puts a needle in their arm. If at that very moment, they think, "if I do this, this is a departure that will end in my miserable demise". What, pray tell, serves as a deterrent that would encourage anyone to put that first needle down and walk away? What, if there are to be no consequences?

Supply-side management is working well for us, isn't it? Government does not have the resources (i.e. OURS) to effectively choke off all supply, so this is not a solution.

Comes a point, that I simply do cease to care - my priority is my family and doing everything I can to raise productive, thoughtful, honest, contributing members of society. Having politicians use faux-compassion as a vote-garnering mechanism that results in demolition of deterrents to serious self-destructive behavior does not help me the least in that task.

Shooting crap of unknown pedigree into your veins is a slow march off a cliff. It serves us collectively, and specifically for myself as a parent, for the perception of that cliff to remain a cliff, because, like it or not, and all the taxpayer money in the world will not change that.

Forain: I guess you missed the part about "law abiding" gun owners.

Forain, I see your point. Clearly if the government were to supply free Glocks and Mac 10s to the gang bangers but not, of course to law abiding citizens, as well as safe shooting sites i.e. ranges -- oh, wait, those already exist; we're half way there; then we should expect the incidence of gun violence to go down -- a splendid idea. It works for needles, it should work for guns.
I don't buy into this idea of "blaming the victim" either. I mean, holding people responsible for their own behavior, wether that be gun owners or needle owners is so . . . bourgeois.

No , no it's not a "cliff."
It's just a gentle slope.

You know what, don't take my word for it, here's your free crazy carpet, would you like a PUSH, to get going.

Kate has just this minute has been slagged as having a hateful racist things to say about abos etc and that Wall is distancing himself from this blog. etc etc. Just thought I would mention it. It was on CKNW Vancouver radio in the 10am to 11am slot. You can hear it by going to CKNW.com and check the archives (the Vault) you may have to set up a free login account.

Hmmm...

A post of mine appears to have been deleted and I'd hate to think it disappeared because I was reluctantly defending Kinsella.

In it I had the temerity to point out that a couple of posters here are "selectively quoting by attribution" Kinsella(probably by accident rather than design).

Kinsella commented negatively on the Star article, and thus is a victim (poetic-justice wise) of his own debating tactic in this instance.

Your tax dollars used to destroy your own civilization.

Want more of this?

vote liberal !

The comments were made by Norman Spector who was one of Mulroney's fart catchers at one time. I suspect is now a bitter old 'progressive' conservative semi retired on Vancouver Island. At least that's how he comes across on his little weekly spot on the Bill (do) Good morning bleat.

Safe injection sites are better, but are socially unacceptable here.

http://www.health.gov.sk.ca/adx/aspx/adxGetMedia.aspx?DocID=1808,94,88,Documents&MediaID=1162&Filename=hiv-aids-at-risk-booklet.pdf

Recently, Canadian researchers in Hamilton,
Ontario reported overwhelming evidence that
supports the role of NEPs in reducing HIV
infection among persons who inject drugs
(Gold, Gafni, Nelligan & Millson, 1997).
The study showed that the NEP in Hamilton
saves money and reduces suffering. The
authors conclude that twenty-four new HIV
infections have been prevented over a fiveyear
period resulting in savings of $1.29
million in direct health care costs alone.
They conclude that NEPs are an 'efficient use
of financial sources'.

Whatever: Saskatoon doesn't have a safe injection site.

As well, I suppose that the general reduction of HIV across North America is because of safe injection sites ... right?

Out of curiousity, did the Hamilton "study" tie the reduced HIV to the sites, or just a general reduction in HIV? Stats mean nothing unless they scientifically tied to the "users" of the facilities. Well?

Forain asked (stupidly): "If we curtail supply to the public, according to your statement, wouldn't there necessarily be less gun-related crime?"

Absolutely, Forain. It works exactly as well as curtailing the supply of opiates, weed, crack and speed to the public. Which is to say, backwards.

If you were clued to the news, you'd know that violent crime, gun related or otherwise, has decreased at double digit percentages in every US state that has liberalized concealed carry permits. US states are the only measure we have right now because all other Western government are busy confiscating firearms from the public.

The evidence says normal people with guns equals crime reduction.

Conversely, every country that has put gun bans or other civilian disarming policies in place has experienced a rapid and alarming increase in violent crime, particularly involving firearms. Britain is the poster child of this phenomenon.

The evidence says disarming normal people equals crime increase, bigtime.

As it pertains to 20 West, the evidence indicates that criminals are happy to use the free needles to improve their "customer service" and thereby increase their profits. Meaning increased crime by addicts feeding the monkey on their back, and increased numbers of scumbags becoming dealers for the easy money.

Which would have been obvious to someone with a brain, or possibly someone not happy to climb the political ladder over the bodies of dead addicts.

Give a man a fish and he'll be back begging you for another one by dinnertime. Teach him to fish and he'll still be begging because its easier. Take him and dump his sorry ass in the woods beside a lake, and next year he'll still be alive and fishing instead of dead from an OD on illegal smack delivered through a government-issue needle.

File that one under "Unintended but Predictable Consequences" .....

That's your legacy of social welfare activism.

Corrections Canada is being pressured to open needle exchange stations because 15% of those incarcerated shoot-up while in prison.

http://tinyurl.com/4t7e9y

Phantom,

Typically facile... Gun related crime statistics also include those infractions related to possession without a permit etc. Of course those numbers decrease with "liberalized" possession laws.

Phantom: "It works exactly as well as curtailing the supply of opiates, weed, crack and speed to the public. Which is to say, backwards." Excellent! So you agree that Kate is wrong to say that the supply of clean needles causes more drug related crime.

Here's an article about the safe injection site in B.C. Works quite well. Here's a sample:

"The main argument for those against supervised injection sites would be that it would bring crime to the area, that it would increase the use of drugs, that it would actually encourage people who don't use drugs to begin to use drugs," he said. "And none of that has been borne out by the research anywhere."

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2006/08/14/bc-sis-report.html

They should revisit the idea of mandatory rehab for addicts. At an in-patient clinic they can safely receive drugs while getting treatment. It keeps the needles off the street. It makes the low income neighborhoods safer. Less addicts - fewer dealers-less crime (violence,theft,gun fights). This would also alleviate much of the homeless problem. Like safe injection sites and needle programs, it controls the spread of disease and associated health costs but has the advantage of offering the addict hope of recovery.

The problem with the progressive solutions is that their compassion is only for addicts and the criminals that service them. There is little compassion shown for the law abiding families and citizens that also live in these neighborhoods. The ones that bear the brunt of the fear and intimidation from the addict/criminal element. The current policies enable these wolves to prey upon those that just want to live in safety. The progressives are far to willing to risk victimizing the innocent citizens in order to "help" the dysfunctional.

Appolo-GEEZ to The Phantom

Give a child a fish, and he will eat for one day.
Teach a child to fish, and he'll empty your tackle box in a week.

Grow the child up.

The Hamilton "research" showing "overwhelming evidence" of a benefit from NEPs was based on a model which assumed a priori a transmission rate of HIV of 2% with a NEP and 4% without. By similar methods I can plug parameters into a model of Chuck Yaeger's P-51 Mustang showing "overwhelming evidence" that I personally could have shot down half the Luftwaffe -- before lunch.

It starts out as a needle "Exchange" but then the losers that run it stop enforcing the exchange part - this is worse than you think. Before the government got into the business of hawking grug parephenalia, a junkie would cling to his "rig" no matter what - it is literally their "lifebllood" and while they might forget to feed their kid, they would never abandon the needle. While, perhaps bad for the junkie, this was good for the rest of us, since as long as teh junkie kept his needle close to his heart, it couldn't accidentally jab us. Now the junkies can get new free needles, and have becomes careless - which leads to AIDS and Hep-C needles lying around and being used in assaults and robberies.

Those numbers seem high. In 2002 Regina exchanged 1.1 needles. Why is it more than doubled in the last 6 years? What's the source on this info?

The source is the Regina Health Region.

Forain, you are a moron.

"Gun related crime statistics also include those infractions related to possession without a permit etc. Of course those numbers decrease with "liberalized" possession laws."

Nuh uh ducky. I said -violent- crime. Robbery, rape, murder, assault. They decrease when civilians own firearms and have concealed carry permits. Deny it if you want, but the FBI crime statistics are very, very clear. You can even google it.

The mere fact that you can buy guns and drugs from the same people in the same crappy parts of town would be clue enough to a normally intelligent person that the policy doesn't work. If even rat bags with drug induced brain damage and no money can circumvent the law, somebody with a clue and a couple of bucks certainly can, and at a profit too.

Prohibition, be it of drugs or guns, is a knee jerk response by socialists to any and every problem they come across. It fails each and every time it is tried. If it moves, ban it. If it doesn't move, tax it. Failure upon failure.

Giving away needles while prohibiting injectable drugs adds another layer of stupidity on an already stupid policy.

Which is why I vote Conservative, and why I mock Forain and all the other Lefty morons.

Oooohhhh Boyyyyyy -- You guys better get the Canadian who hangs out in bathroom stalls right on this one -- don't cha know!

We need a needle registry.

Um, no Paul, what I meant is, does anyone have a link to information that backs this up? It's very surprising that the number of needles exchanged could more than double in six years.

Here's my source on 1.1 million needles in 2002:

statcan.ca/bsolc/english/bsolc?catno=11-522-X20040018733

It was reported on 650 Radio. The stats are in the Health Region budget ...if you want to did through it, go ahead. As well, 650 Radio interview the Sask Health Region doctor in charge, and he confirmed the numbers ... good enough for ya. The whole point the radio program was the incredible jump in needles.

Imagine, stolen needles in a "free needles for junkies" program.

That's the thing about junkies though, isn't it? They steal sh1t, and they bite the hand that feeds them.

Raise welfare rates and you will buy more welfare recipients

Increase the supply of free needles and you will create a bigger pool of needle recipients looking to get something for free.

Even more nonsense.. Now Victoria is contemplating the distribution of free Crack Pipes

I guess the next step is free prescription drugs, a place to get your shots, and Bob's your uncle..

"The authors conclude that twenty-four new HIV
infections have been prevented over a five year
period resulting in savings of $1.29
million in direct health care costs alone.
They conclude that NEPs are an 'efficient use
of financial sources'".
Are the authors taking into account the misery of the victims that are robbed, cars broken into, unsafe streets that I do not want my children near so that they can get the heroin to fill their free needles?? Socialists want to help them fuel their habits but do not give a damn about the victims of their drug abuse. I am sure the users of the free needles aren't going to the exchange clinics after a hard 9 to 5 day, sweating to ensure that they have the money to pay their taxes and care for their families. At least if they are in the health care system they won't be robbing 1.29 million dollars from the authors and their neighbors.

Many unionized jobs are created because of this program. We have the same problem here but it's deemed to be a success (unsubstantiated of course). HIV rates and STD rates have risen significantly since the program started. Needles everywhere but the city doesn't try to clean it up.

Our city dropped the program then Premier Pinocchio reinstated it because of the lost union jobs, I guess.

We have 31 agencies helping 1,000 (homeless). but 3 are actually doing anything concrete to help them. The others attend conferences and publish pamphlets. With the money we spend on the "homeless" we could build an apartment building and give them each an apartment - but that's too efficient. No need for conferences then.

Seems they have money for people breaking the law but no money for diabetics and their no option need for needles.

"We need a needle registry"

---Richard Ball

That one got me literally laughing out loud!

And I needed to laugh...thanks!

And we definitely need a 'toilet camera' registry.

We can't just have any Tom, Dick or Warren walking into public toilets with a loaded camera.

Canada is f*&%ed beyond repair - get out while you can

Not to get embroiled in the evil of drugs argument, but why aren't the needles on an exchange basis? One for one?
Actually, they could make that 'bring in two...get one free' initially, in order to get the loose ones picked up."

Oh NO-NO-NO !!
You can't make them do ANYTHING for the needles. That would be grossly unfair. Cause you see unless they are absolutely free, no strings attached, the junkies won't use the clean needles.

Horny Toad

Forain, you don't need to provide a youtube. I blogged on just this very thing a year or two ago. We need safe gun discharge sites for the gang bangers. Harm reduction, etc....

A few thoughts from a health care worker who worked in downtown Detroit

Really serious addicts are not that common. Many people abusing drugs use them sporadically, on the weekend etc. They go to work, etc. It might even be your neighbor. Once my colleagues tried to do a study where the entrance criteria was to avoid all alcohol, caffeine, prescription and non-prescription drugs for 48 hours. We couldn't get enough patients to do the trial. And that was in the late 80's. We were dumbfounded.

We are a society that LOVES drugs, of all kinds for all kinds of problems. Drugs are accepted for shyness, hair loss, obesity, blood pressure, etc. Why are illegal drugs any different? As a pharmacist we are taught ALL drugs have a beneficial effect and ALL drugs have a toxic effect (even nicotine is beneficial); dose is what separates them. The illegal drugs (heroin, cocaine, crack) have a very narrow range between benefit and toxicity. But with society's acceptance for a drug for every pill, the choice to start using illegal drugs is not that much of a taboo IMHO. And I think that is why in some people marijuana use often leads to harder drug use. And why prescription drug use is skyrocketing.

If you really talk to drug addicts they ENJOY shooting up. Even the ones who say they hate what drugs have done to them. Ha! They mislead you and manipulate you but almost all live for the effect of getting high. It is my belief that most addicts are searchers and spiritual and try to find the answers to life that way. The easy way. By the time they're 40, they are usually dead or are have straightened out. This used to be true, especially for heroin abusers. Crack has kinda changed the scene somewhat.

However, I believe we need to treat the dabblers (or occasional users) differently from the serious addicts (daily users); needle exchange programs might help the serious addicts but I believe they encourage the others.

Anyways, that's my take. Thanks for reading my rant.

Final anecdote: I had one patient (before needle exchange programs) who had a drug addiction but who had not hit bottom. Worked in construction. Read Thoreau etc. Neat guy. He did not contract HIV or HepC despite 8-10 years of IV drug use. This is before we knew of HIV or HepC. He said he was careful and did not share needles despite the tremendous pressure to do so. He would have scoffed at needle exchange programs.

They should revisit the idea of mandatory rehab for addicts
lynnh at April 7, 2008 2:08 PM

As a pragmatic non-doctrinaire libertarian I am strongly in favour of this. I have no patience with the tiresome trope that we must "respect their dignity". They have none -- we need to give it to them. And good and hard. This would be true compassion.

We should also distribute free cigarettes to children .

I'm sure there is a liberal funded research somewhere that shows this would save us money.

"Here's an article about the safe injection site in B.C. Works quite well. Here's a sample:

Really!
Tell that to my nephew who is a policeman in the downtown eastside area of Vancouver. He sure as hell doesn't see it in a positive lite.

Horny Toad

Fun with Math.

Vancouver SIS - a success story (reference http://www.vch.ca/sis/research.htm )

# 7,278 unique individuals registered at Insite
# Daily average visits: 607
# Average number of visits per month, per person: 11
# Busiest day: May 25, 2005 (933 visits in 18 hours)

1) How many needles does Insite supply a year (assume a needle a visit)?

2) How many needles would the addicts need if the average addict used 1 needle a day? 2 a day?

3) Calculate the number of individual addicts using daily average visits and average of visits per month (use a 30 day month).

4) Given 1) and 2) above, what you expect the decrease in disease spread by needles to be because of SIS? Justify your answer. What conditions would have to be met to change the answer?

Bonus Question. If the BC taxpayer spends $2M a year on SIS and the Canadian taxpayer spends .5M a year on SIS what is the cost per needle (ignore the actual cost of the needle and the 1.2M to renovate the building)?

When I first started practicing medicine in Vancouver, I was of the opinion that needle exchange programs were a good idea (the best thing to do would be to decriminalize all drugs but someone has already mentioned this).

It seemed a bit surprising when instead of the HIV rate among IV drug users going down, it went up and continues to go up. Loath to admit that they might be part of the problem the health department figured that it needed to hand out more free syringes. It hasn't helped.

From conversations with IV drug using patients (most of whom are now dead) I found out that unlike most other parts of the country coke users in Vancouver feel the need to inject cocaine rather than snorting it or smoking it like the majority of people do elsewhere. Injected cocaine gives a good rush, but it's over in at most 15 minutes. As the coke rush ends a crash ensues in which people are desperate to shoot up again and I've had patients tell me that they grabbed the nearest syringe lying around not caring very much that it had just been used by someone else in a frantic attempt to get their blood cocaine levels into the desired range again.

If the health department was truly interested in harm reduction, it would be promoting less dangerous means of drug administration and conducting classes in the finer points of snorting and smoking cocaine.

While HIV prevention is the stated goal of needle exchange programs, I've never seen a study which looked at how many cases of bacterial endocarditis have been caused by non-sterile iv drug use. I've seen patients in hospital who would regularly use water from a toilet to fix with and it's not that surprising when they came in with endocarditis. During the time I was at St. Pauls in Vancouver this was probably the second most common internal medicine diagnosis behind HIV.

HIV in opiate addicts is not an expensive disease as opiates greatly facilitate the progression of HIV. All of my opiate abusing HIV patients are dead and many of them died within a year of becoming HIV positive so I'd be suspicious about the costs of treating HIV in opiate addicts. I refused to prescribe anti-retrovirals to non-compliant opiate addicts as this is a guaranteed way of having more virulent HIV strains produced which are resistent to whatever anti-retrovirals the iv drug users would be taking on a very intermittent basis (one of my heroin addict patients routinely "lost" his antiretrovirals and I discovered that he was selling them to someone form a province that, unlike BC, didn't provice antiretrovirals for free).

The other cost that isn't factored into this mess is the public hysteria over needlestick injuries that I used to see fairly frequently in people who worked outside in Vancouver. The current recommendations are that people get prophylactic HIV treatment and get HIV tests every 3 months for a year. The chances of getting HIV from a needle lying outside for more than a few days is miniscule and I wouldn't worry if I got jabbed with one; the only disease that the miniscule amount of blood in the barrel of the needle can transmit is HepB and almost everyone in Canada has been vaccinated for HepB already.

Needle exchange programs should be scrapped and anyone stupid enough to inject drugs of uncertain composition and purity into their veins using non-sterile techniques deserves what they get. The only role of health departments should be to promote safer drug delivery techniques.

seems to me we should place 10 kG of very pure
heroin, crack and and the drug de jour at the door of every "safe injection site", every day.
As a cop said when responding to the "injustice"
of three strikes, "they are doing life on the
installment plan" some people have a death wish

The ultimate litmus test for those who support "safe" injection sites - ask them where they live, and then see if you can acquire the property next door for the project.

Hey, so long as it's always the other guy living next door to your socially progressive initiatives, eh?

Loki said: "The only role of health departments should be to promote safer drug delivery techniques."

Frankly, I think the only role the health department should have is to send a cart 'round to pick up the bodies before they start to smell. Given what you describe, anything else would be a ludicrous waste of time and resources.

“The reason you give out needles is because it is a hell of a lot cheaper then dealing with the medical costs of the spread of HIV, hepatitis and other blood diseases. Needles are also cheaper then incarceration. It is also cheaper then offering free treatment to these addicts and it is cheaper then dealing with the underlying social problems that led to the addiction in the first place.”
I’ve read and heard this argument and others like it so many times I want to puke! I volunteer every year to help pick up the needles, not because I like doing it, but because small children are exposed to these needles. I see no sense in putting children at risk so that a junky will be a little safer. We need to stop this madness befor more children are injured. Who do we value more? People who willingly put themselves at risk or children.

This is all too difficult. Let's just keep picking on smokers. It serves no purpose but it makes us feel we are accomplishing something.

loki,

Please explain to me how making all drugs legal (or decriminalizing them) and giving out needles, crack pipes, etc. will stop the spread of AIDS, HepB or whatever. Just maybe, could it be the the "clients" that are at fault for their own fates?

How many times have you heard "I wouldn't be a junkie if heroin was legal"? You being a physician, I'd bet a lot more times than me.

Related, on topic WRT Station 20, off-topic WRT needles.

I noticed that the Star-Phoney article, linked to by CJunk, said Rachel Engler-Stinger was involved in the demonstration.

Let's look at a brief bio on this ‘progressive’ person:

Arrested at the World Trade Organization conference in Montreal, 2003.

http://archives.lists.indymedia.org/imc-winnipeg/2003-July/000775.html

was involved in a local protest against General Electric in 2003,

http://www.nowar-paix.ca/nowar/forum/2386

a leading protester at the 2002 G8 Conference in Kananaskis

http://www.ainfos.ca/02/jun/ainfos00555.html

took part in anti-Israeli protests in Gaza with the International Solidarity Movement in 2002, (a front organization of Hezbolah)

http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article844.shtml

and a friend of the Communist Party of Canada (Marxist-Leninist). Scroll down to the Saskatoon section:

http://www.cpcml.ca/Tmld2003/D33042.htm

just thought the rest of the SDA world would like to know what kind of extremists we are dealing with.

LORNE CALVERT raised welfare rates 3 times in 3 years back to back to back, This is the F'n PROBLEM

Simple solution. Take the drugs that are seized, purify them and put them back on the street.

Rather odd how the Health District frets and moans over so-called second-hand smoke to the point where someone having a cigarette in a park presents a real and present danger to anyone within a 2 mile radius. Yet .... used needles littering parks and playgrounds seems to fly under their radar. I suppose it's much easier and certainly more politically correct to bully smokers even if this exercise is unproductive and downright silly.

Personally I would much rather have my grandchildren walk through a cloud of SHS than use a discarded needle as a toy.

As for the fact that the number of needles handed
out far exceeds the number of used needles that are returned in the "exchange" program, correct me if I'm wrong, but shouldn't heads roll in the Health District? Or are these left-wing bureaucrats not accountable to anyone?