Even the most diehard feminist, the most devoted liberal, the most conceited lefy, the most compassionate socialist will never, ever act to counter their greatest enemy: Muslim fundamentalism.

This is especially true for the liberal feminist, who even after they are forced to wear burkhas, shut their mouths, and breed like rabbits will not peep a word against the backwardness that almost always accompanies islam.

So, yes, in their world Mark Steyn is full of crap. It would seem that they prefer the above than possibly admit they are barking up the wrong tree.

The problem with these statistics is: it ignores atheists or agnostics. I am sure I am counted as a catholic when people make up these numbers. After all, I am french canadian. My heritage background is catholic.

But But But... I am an atheist. I am not a catholic. The same is true for many muslims. I read in many place that Obama's father was an atheist muslim.
How can you be muslim and atheist?????

It is like the northern ireland joke:
John: What is your religion?
Paul: Atheism.
John: ohhh ya !!! but catholic or protestant atheist?

It is time for us Atheist to be recognized as such.

Religion must stop be such a political identity.

What do feminists and radical Muslims have in common, besides nothing--which you'd think would be a clue to the feminists to speak out while they have the chance?

Lies and propaganda.

When your cause is propped up by no facts but only lies and propaganda, you have no basis upon which to discern others' agendas.

Unfortunately, we're surrounded by idiots, excepting Kate, Mark Steyn, Lorne Gunter, David Warren, Kathy Shaidle, Stephen Taylor, Ezra Levant, and a few other politically incorrect commentators with their eyes wide open.

The Thin Blue Line...

Oh, and Darcey and Fenrus Badwulf...The Thin Blue Line is getting thicker...

It bears mentioning that as much as we dislike statist communism, Islam will never be allowed to dictate Sharia in those nations....that leaves only liberal democracies to host their own demise.

atheist quebecois separatiste ~ You made a Lot more sense this time around. However I wish to point something out here:

Your atheism cannot be seen. Nor my Catholicism. Nor a pagan's paganism.

The muslims do not give a Damn what you are. They look at you, they see a White Western Christian, or if you will a White Anglo Saxon Protestant- whether you are or NOT.

And if the wrong guys win the war as to which version of islam is the right one, you may get the opportunity to be protesting your atheism right up the CHOP!1!!

IF misguided fools allow them to get that kind of a foothold in the West. And quite a few are working on it.

I would take this information with a truck load of salt. CAIR and other such organisations in the US have been claiming 7 million Muslims there. However, PEW research last year showed that there are 2.2 million. These kinds of inflationary figures are being shown throughout the world. Islamists want to show Islam's supremacy and that it is on the rise. They are also liars and commanded to do so. As Mohammad said, "War is deceipt."

The fact is, there are huge conversion figures in Muslim countries to Christianity. This is why Iran has made death for apostacy the law of the land. The same goes for Africa and the ME.

As well, Catholicism is a part of Christianity, certainly not the whole religion, as the way it's been put in the article.

My ony quibble was that you are comparing all of islam (sunni, shiite, wahabist, salafst, sufi alawaite etc) to RC's. Granted RC is the largest denomination of Christaianity but at the end of the article they icluded them all and Christianity was still the largest.

If you went by official athiest then you have 1.2 Billion Chinese just to start plus a few other nations....

The other difference is that RC is hierarchical with a specific centre whereas Islam is "flat" religon with no specific centre. although there are lots of immans and quasi immans vying for that place. this is what OBL and Al Zwahiri are doing (assuming OBL is alive) tryig to be a centre of Islamm as are any one of a a number of radicals.

Outside pressure pushes them together but it looks to me like they are harder than herd of protestants to bring under one roof. Being of protestant background I would end up in the same tent as RC's if the religon overall was being threatened....but there are a number of differences that still seperate the schools of thought.

Why do you think it was so easy to get sectarian violence going in Iraq between Sunni's and Shia...they have fundamental disagreements that can be easily inflamed. The Wahabists now turned on a couple of othe minorities to get thngs going.

All this to say I dont think it is really a useful comparison. The more useful comparison is wealth. And all that oil money and the grand bargain the house of Saud has cut means that the wahabist's have been funding and fuelling Islam's growth....the Aga Khan can't compete with that...

I don't think that Islam's demographic increase is due to conversion or individuals openly choosing that 'religion'.

I think it's due to the current socioeconomic Islamic mode which is pre-industrial and is based around large families as a key economic unit. One hundred years ago, large families as the economic unit were the norm in 'Christian' families.

As the Islamic population is enabled to move more and more into a middle class economy, the population numbers will drop, as their family size reduces.

What will enable an Islamic middle class economy? The ME nations must move into a civic and democratic rather than tribal and hereditary political mode; this will move governance out of the control of one small tribe and into the control of the majority population. This majority population, as they gain in economic and political power, are the middle class.

In the West, Islamic immigrants must not be isolated from the local economy and political mode by multiculturalism; they must be integrated within the current civic mode and rule of law.

This increase in population will then slow down to the 'normal' industrial small nuclear family.

Irwin, "Muslims breed like mosquitos." That is why their numbers are growing.

Islam is an ideology (the body of doctrine, myth, belief, etc., that guides an individual, social movement, institution, class, or large group) masquerading as a religion. When it presents itself as a religion (or is assumed in polite or uniformed conversation to be a religion) it is discussed and considered in the wrong paradigm.

It is a crime against the state to renounce Islam. The leaders of the state have made it a cpital offence to renounce the state ideology everywhere and they find substantiation for this in their Kampf - the Quaran.

"Norwegian imam Mullah Krekar" The Mullah is not Norwegian, he just happens to live in Norway. Why does anyone call him Norwegian? Would they call all the Americans and Europeans who keep Saudi Arabia running Arabs? I doubt it, and they are no more Arab than our friend the imam is Norwegian.

A Muslimah's point-of-view:

"Frontpage Interview's guest today is Rabab Khaja, a visitor from Kuwait who came to the U.S. with her two sons over a year ago. She escaped persecution by Sharia Law."

"The very utterance of the Shahada (witness) of "I witness that there is no God but God, and Muhammad is His messenger" that is repeated five times a day in the prayer is a call for the annihilation of all other ethnic groups."

…

"First I do not think that Islam is the fastest growing religion on earth regardless of the statistics. Mark Twain is reputed to have said: "There are lies, damned lies and statistics." And when you are talking about the Islamic regions, lying is second to nature."

….

"As I see it, Islam is deteriorating from within, and Muslims have never been confused as they are today."

www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Read.aspx?GUID=B88C024D-D048-4D18-8C32-F3EA2B5DC68F

I do not know if it is denial or just high optimism but a few of you seem to have missed the point of Kate's post which in my own words I understand to be,

Mark Steyn is right, and every week we find more evidence of this.

As Mark Steyn says Islam is not only a problem but the problem is getting bigger and closer to us every day.
Birth rates differences confirm this ( the only western nation with sustainable birth rates is the USA ),
the concessions western nations make to Islam every week confirm this,
and now the Vatican confirms it with those numbers.

No matter how you describe it,
"Islam is invading the planet"
or
"western civilization is losing to Islam"
Mark Steyn is right.

It is nice to be optimistic and to believe everything is not so bad, and every thing will be fine with time, but on the other hand to fix a problem, one must first admit there is a problem.

And the Islamicization of the planet is a problem.

Every week new information - reliable documented information - confirms the planet is a little more Islamic than it was the week before,

and every week new information - reliable documented information - confirms western civilization is a little weaker than it was the week before.

Mullah Krekar said the following ( and not Mark Steyn as so many idiot liberals keep repeating ad nauseam )

“We’re the ones who will change you,” the Norwegian imam Mullah Krekar told the Oslo newspaper Dagbladet in 2006. “Just look at the development within Europe, where the number of Muslims is expanding like mosquitoes. Every Western woman in the EU is producing an average of 1.4 children. Every Muslim woman in the same countries is producing 3.5 children.” As he summed it up: “Our way of thinking will prove more powerful than yours.”

no, friend of usa, the Islamic way will not be more powerful than the 'western' way. The reason is economic.

The Islamic mode cannot function within a global industrial economy. It is only suited to an isolated tribal economy, which is one that has no middle class, and where a small elite hereditary tribe dominates the rest of the population.

The world population cannot revert back to non-industrialism because it is only industrialism that can sustain the 6 billion global population.

Again, Islam, which is really a social, economic, and political ideology, frozen as such by calling it a 'religion', is completely unsuited to a modern industrial global economy.

At the moment, Islam is confronting this problem by trying to deny it, by trying to revert back to the 7th c (Al Qaeda's agenda) or by trying to insist that the West become 'Islamic-7th c'.

Al Qaeda is failing because the US pushed it back into the ME, where tribalism is being confronted for the misfit that it is. And multicultural relativism and Islamic take-over is failing because the West is starting to fight back.

So, no, 'their way of thinking', which is just fine for a 7th c. non-industrial nomadic no-change economy is not more powerful than ours.

Kindly remember that this 'way of thinking' isn't thinking at all. Islam rejects thought; rejects reason, rejections individual dissent, questions, science. So, it's a most decidedly unpowerful 'way of thinking'. There hasn't been a scientific thought, a technological development in Islam since its creation. That's just fine for a peasant economy; it won't work in the modern era.

From Yahoo News Sept 30 2006,

The Queen is allowing a room at Windsor Castle to be used as a Muslim prayer zone.

... ... ...

Oct 22 2006, from BBC online

Police in Manchester have been told not to arrest Muslims wanted on warrants at prayer times during Ramadan.

... ... ...

From telegraph.co.uk
Muslims are waging civil war against us, claims police union

By David Rennie, Europe Correspondent
(Filed: 05/10/2006)

Radical Muslims in France's housing estates are waging an undeclared "intifada" against the police, with violent clashes injuring an average of 14 officers each day.

As the interior ministry said that nearly 2,500 officers had been wounded this year, a police union declared that its members were "in a state of civil war" with Muslims in the most depressed "banlieue" estates which are heavily populated by unemployed youths of north African origin.

... ... ...

Outcry as Muslim Marks & Spencer worker refuses to sell book on Christianity, calling it unclean

Daily Express, UK
Jan. 15, 2008
Martyn Brown

A Muslim store worker refused to serve a customer buying a children’s book on Christianity because she said it was “unclean”.

... ... ...

Canoe.ca

February 8, 2008
Muslims claiming cash for numerous wives
Islamic leaders: Hundreds in GTA get extra welfare for polygamous unions
By TOM GODFREY -- Sun Media

Hundreds of GTA Muslim men in polygamous marriages -- some with a harem of wives -- are receiving welfare and social benefits for each of their spouses, thanks to the city and province, Muslim leaders say.

Mumtaz Ali, president of the Canadian Society of Muslims, said wives in polygamous marriages are recognized as spouses under the Ontario Family Law Act, providing they were legally married under Muslim laws abroad.

... ... ...

From ibloga.blogspot.com Feb 27 2008,

"LEICESTER -- Police here in central England seized a collection of porcelain pigs from a house's window sill after Muslims complained that they were offensive.

"I just couldn't believe it, I didn't know whether to laugh or cry," Mrs Nancy Bennett, the owner of the 17 miniature pigs, told the Sun tabloid newspaper.

The porcelain figures were held at the local police station, while Mrs Bennett was threatened with prosecution if she replaces the collection. Her house is located in the same street as the city's main mosque, meaning that Muslim worshippers often passed by her front window where the pig figurines were on display. "

... ... ...

Herald Tribune,

Hooded attackers fire on police in Paris suburb, wounding 4

The Associated Press
Monday, March 3, 2008

PARIS: Dozens of hooded attackers fired buckshot and nails at police this weekend, wounding four officers, France's interior minister said.

... ... ...

Spies feared Hezbollah clashes here.

Sunday Jan 28 2007, The Calgary Sun,

By FABRICE DE PIERREBOURG, SUN MEDIA

MONTREAL -- Canada's spy agency feared last summer's conflict between Israeli and Hezbollah forces in Lebanon might lead to violence in Canada, Sun Media has learned.

Much of that concern centred on Montreal, where the Shiite movement counts numerous partisans, according to documents acquired through Access to Information.

"Threat assessment" reports produced by the Canadian Security and Intelligence Service last summer note such concerns on a near-daily basis.

One report -- drafted July 17, 2006 -- states the "explosive nature" of the conflict could incite the members of the two camps to clash "in Canada."

A CSIS agent notes a Montreal Jewish school had already been burned in 2004 "in reprisals for the murder of the leader of Hamas, Sheikh Ahmed Yassin."

Two years earlier, then-Israeli prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu had been forced to cancel a speech at Montreal's Concordia University because of a "violent revolt" on the campus.

... ... ...

Disturbing reality buried
Fear of causing offence and wilful blindness will only end the day innocent Canadians die

By LICIA CORBELLA Sunday Feb 18 2007,

Fully 12% of Muslim Canadians polled by Environics said the alleged terrorist plot -- that included kidnapping and beheading the prime minister and blowing up Parliament and the CBC -- was justified.

[...]But just how "negligible" is 12% of 700,000 people.

[...] 84,000 Canadian Muslims think it's justifiable to behead our democratically elected prime minister and blow up the very symbol and centre of our democracy!

( And Joel at Proud to be Canadian adds, )

But let’s not low-ball it. The margin of error is 4.4 percent, meaning that you could also add 4 percent to the 12 percent, rendering up to 112,000 folks who think chopping off the Prime Minister of Canada’s head and blowing up Parliament and the CBC and causing sundry other terrorist acts in Canada would be just lovely.

[...] By the way, here’s how Muslims would vote, according to the poll:

54 per cent Liberal
13 per cent NDP
7 per cent Conservative

it all makes sense

... ... ...

And I could go on all day with excerpts like these...

ET said,

The Islamic mode cannot function within a global industrial economy.

Well yes and no.
Look at Saudi Arabia, it is modern and industrailized in most ways but still treats women as second class citizens, is still doing barbaric punishement such as lash or beheadings and conficates bibles...

I do not think industrial global economy is an obstacle - because
Muslims simply take what suits them from the "modern western world" and reject the rest -
well they use the internet to promote medieval beliefs don't they?

but if industrial global economy is an obstacle then the left and their " let's save the planet from global warming " efforts are slowly succeeding in making industrialized nations weaker economically and thus an easier target for Islamicization.

So either way I do not see anything as a serious obstacle to Islam.

Friend:

Does it strike you a bit odd that most of the WORKERS in the industrialized oil fields of Saudi Arabia are so-called guest workers?

It's up to the dhimmis to actually get their hands dirty, since actual work is so demeaning.

And, for the priviledge of living in a Muslim society, you get to pay twice the tax rate.

Of course, when they move into western societies built on work, look at the example of Ontario, where welfare is paid to multiple wives. It's a tough job laying around all day.

80 to 100,000 islamists in Canada, eh? They outnumber the sharp end of our military 10 to 1. And, as witnessed at Oka, civilian police are not trained or equipped to deal with the threat.

Good thing I am still a marksman, and I run 4 miles a day. They just might have to call this 48 yr old ex-soldier up one day!

I guess I should have called myself a "marksperson" to keep the leftarded moonbats happy.

anti-Christian self-centered child:

Your way of thinking is a perfect example of the depravity and sickness in the Western world today.

It is certainly not because of you or your actions that Islam will be stopped in its tracks.

Instead, you prefer to smoke your gauloise, eat your brie and wank yourself into ecstasy while the Americans go about the business of defending the Western tradition.

Next time, before you comment, ponder these words:

"If I wanted to hear an asshole, I would have farted."

The greatest statistian on religion, DB Barrett, has made his life work that of calculating the numbers of people adhering to each of the major religions and hundreds of minor religions and cults. When you group all the "Christians" together it is about 2.1 billion. When you group all the Muslims together it is about 1.3 billion. Also, he has taken great care to not include agnostists and atheists who happen to be in "Christian" countries. They are categorized separately (1.1 billion)
Roman Catholics do not count for all Christians. Neither do all Shi'ites count for all Islamists. Neither do communists count for all atheists.

Saudi Arabia is neither Modern Nor Industrialized my friend.

Where muslim population grows industry and prosperity decline.

friend of usa - no, you are quite wrong.

Saudi Arabia is 'industrialized' only because it imports western technology AND TECHNOLOGISTS to run its oil extraction. Saudi Arabia, on its own, didn't have the scientific or technological knowledge to extract and process oil. It relied on the USA/UK knowledge and workers.

Did you know that foreign workers make up more than half the workforce in Saudi Arabia? That includes not only the highly skilled - who are always from the West and primarily in oil, finance and trading - as well as unskilled.

Did you know that SA doesn't have the capacity to employ its own young population? Doesn't have the jobs for them? And, still hasn't developed its own skilled workforce to run the oil and finance?

You simply don't get it. Without an industrialized economy, the world population can't exist. No food, no heat, no water, no transportation. Oh, and no internet.

So, no, you are quite wrong. Islamism is an ideology that can function only in a non-industrial economy. If it becomes dominant in an area, that area CAN'T operate an industrial economy! [eg. Taliban]. No science, no education, no proper medical care, no advanced food production to support the current large populations.

Your statement that Islamists simply 'take what they want' is viable only if What They Want exists. Without someone running the industrial economy, the clean water, energy supplies, transportation, food, health care etc..won't exist. Not under a society that rejects the use of reason, science, progress etc.

54 per cent Liberal
13 per cent NDP
7 per cent Conservative

it all makes sense

That's not surprising, globally the left have been accused of crawling into bed with Political Islam to get elected. How these fools expect to control Radical Islam isn't apparent but I'm guessing by happily converting to Islam so they can lead for a lifetime. Islamic Doctorine and Illiberal Doctorine is identical, well one has their asses in the air five times a day and the other has their heads up their asses.

If all of the western workers left Saudi they'd be back on their Camels in 2 weeks.

ET, Saudi Arabia is actually worse than you are saying. The "guest workers" started getting imported to build out and run their oil industry right after WWII. They've been at it for 60 years.

Does Saudi Arabia have world class engineering schools? No, they send their kids to Canada. Do they have medical schools? No, they send their kids to Canada.

Do they even have good hospitals? No, the rich come to Rochester Minnesota to be treated at the Mayo Clinic. Mayo keeps a couple wards all kitted out for rich Saudi types.

Where is all the fancy schmancy oil drilling tech invented that is going to keep those Saudi wells producing after the easy stuff gets sucked out?

Alberta. Who the hell ever heard of Alberta?

Would Canadians or Brits or Americans, or even RUSSIANS allow that state of affairs to exist? That foreigners from the back of beyond ran our countries for us and we just sat back and let them? Not a chance.

Meaning there's something seriously f-ed up about the Arab culture. They seem to snap out of it when they move here, for the most part. Those soggy few who don't seem to be making themselves a nuisance lately. Maybe a nice round of welfare reform?

Lots of negative comments here, as one would expect. I, for one do not get too excited about the Muslim influences on the West, save for the wanton destcruction they have wreaked on us.
Like all ethnics who move to a modern western-style environment, it's not the first generation who will change. Give the second and third generation a chance and they will see ther error of the "old ways". That is, of course that they are given the opportunity to live without being eliminated by Honour Killings" and such.
In the meantime, keep your guard up.

Hector- many of the those plotting terrorist acts in England are second-and-third generation muslims.

This is strange...

and it is the third time this has happened to me here.

When I come back later to a thread, after I have posted a negative comment about Islam, strange things happen.

- The comment box appears right after my last comment but before the rest of the comments instead of at the bottom of the page...

- Above the comment box where I should see my name and email and where it says "remember personal info?" the little boxes are all blank...I have to re-type everything...

- but if I go to another thread where I also left a comment - but not about Islam - everything is normal...

I'm no computer expert but could this be the sloppy work of some bad hacker ?

Any computer expert here can answer me?

"...I am still a marksman..." Kingstonlad @ 1:10pm

I do believe the correct term is "lethal projectile to target delivery enabler". ;-)