Thanks so much for posting this Kate.

Also posted at Hotair.com, Jihadwatch.org and LGF.

Bloggers - Doing the work the MSM won't dare do!

more proof that islam is truly evil

Will Muslims now riot / seethe over their own words?

Sounder, only where told to do so by their repressive, tyrannical governments. You really think they have spontaneous demonstrations in Iran? Syria?

Doubt it, eh?

Very powerful. The leftards that denouce the obvious are no different than those that denounces the concern leveled at the Nazi's before all hell broke loose in the thirties. Common sense has to rise to the top here people and we must place pressure on the governments of the day to keep these radical Imams out of this country and expell and take away citizenship of any muslim that espouses this hatred. No questions, no appeals, ship them to Iran or some uninhabited island in the middle of the pacific. If they hate us and our way of life then ship them out, cause I'm not converting. If anyone even jokingly talks about Jihad, your gone, just like at the airport if you joke about a bomb or the like. We have to adopt a zero tolerance for this stink.
Just one more thing, I think that we may have to develop a stomach for carpet bombing and if innocents get hurt or killed thats too bad. If they didn't like what these moron are doing then stand up to them, either you are with us or against us. A little harsh maybe but tough love is harsh.

Over one million views when I played it. How many by tomorrow?

Will Harper and the CPC take heed?
Seriously doubt it.
The Toronto Terrorists will be found innocent and victims of a Christian society.A group hug for all.

This video shows many of the reasons why I make donations to PizzaIDF.org.

Thank you Kate!

Well, your turn in the star chamber is sure to come now.

Democracies have historically paid a very high price for being slow to awaken to the fact that tyrants of all stripes mean what they say, unpalatable as their statements may be.

With tears in my eyes, I say "Thank you, Kate". I Pray it will be played and replayed around the world continuously. I see mention of it screening across Fox News so hope Beck and Hannity air it.

It is possible that 1215 knows what he is talking about (although I doubt it), but he should be aware that there is a large number of Christians who know exactly what is going on. And Harper, you can be sure, is one of them.

If the Liberals get in in Canada and Obama in the U.S., God help us all.

Excellent short film. It should be very interesting to see what transpires over the next few days. I wonder if it will help convince more people that these dudes are nuts. Not holding my breath over that one...

Please, Kate. Please keep at least the link on your main Webpage. Please, for the sake of freedom. Please, for the sake of Canada. Please, for you and us -- and me. Please.

If only it was an exaggeration!

Bravo!

Now watch the movie "Obsession".

Propaganda worth of Goebbels. Juxtapose bad English translations from the Quran, taken completely out of context, with images of terrorism. Accompany with tragic classical music and quotes from radical nutjobs (and who knows how accurate those translations were). Reminded me immediately of Nazi propaganda or a Michael Moore movie. Surprised there weren't images of Arabs intercut with rats.

The movie starts with a bad translation of Sura 8 Verse 60. The Quran is written in Arabic of course, and there are many bad English translations out there.

Here's a better translation:

[8:60] You shall prepare for them all the power you can muster, and all the equipment you can mobilize, that you may frighten the enemies of GOD, your enemies, as well as others who are not known to you; GOD knows them. Whatever you spend in the cause of GOD will be repaid to you generously, without the least injustice.

and the next sentence:

[8:61] If they resort to peace, so shall you, and put your trust in GOD. He is the Hearer, the Omniscient

But so what? Doesn't mean anything unless you know what the whole chapter (sura) is about. I would recommend reading the whole thing if a particular sentence worries you.

It never ceases to amaze me how radical jihadis and Muslim haters use this same method to justify themselves.

Ah. Just did a post, myself, on that after getting an email tip.

Explosive stuff.

Inconvenient truth.

OH, and more background on the film, FYI:

http://europenews.dk/en/node/8787

Belisarius, you mistranslated 8:61 yourself. Where you claim it says "peace" it means "submission to Allah". Look, these people actually mean what they say.

I'd read it all too, if I was certain I wouldn't puke on my keyboard.

There seems to be a shortage of "good" translations... and all the spin that would imply.

Oh Belisarius, you turncoat - you once worked for the good guys a few centuries ago.

"Bad Translations of the Quran"?.

Can you suggest a *good* translation of the Koran? Iwill read and quote from it.

You employ the standard muslim response - "When we say kill the infidel, that's only stories children. What we really mean is "love" the infidel".

Of course, muslims insist the Koran must be read in its "original" arabic which no one understands, except a few arab scholars. When, for example, were all the little dots and apostrophes added, that change the meaning so much - a couple of hundred years later?

Your "religion" is a fraud. It is a totalitarian ideologogy created by teh followers of a psychopath and should be treated as a malady.

Belisarius said:

"Juxtapose bad English translations from the Quran, taken completely out of context, with images of terrorism. Accompany with tragic classical music and quotes from radical nut jobs (and who knows how accurate those translations were)."

Do you not see the irony in your own statement? I also notice you did not directly address the small fraction of freely available 'religion of peace' terror images in the film. Geez Belisarius, you really are a shiftless apologist.

As for the film, nice imagery to remind us that until the barbarity of Islam is confronted and exorcised, there will never be peace on earth.

I was stunned to read this sentence in the Wikipedia entry:

"Many Dutch people have posted films on YouTube prior to the release of the film apologizing[citation needed] in advance on behalf of the residents of the Netherlands for any offense which the film causes."

How can anyone be so naive? There's not hope for the Netherlands.

The Islamic terrorist gang in Toronto was quoted in the Globe & Mail:

“God willing if we don't get a victory, God willing our kids will get it. If not them, then five generations down somebody will get it …”

The Byzantine empire was slowly beaten back by Mohammedans until it consisted only of its capital city, Constantinople, and a small patch of farmland. This was the center of the Orthodox Christian church. The city was under siege for at least 300 years. Eventually the Byzantines went broke, bankrupt, the Roman pope intervened to prevent any European military aid, a European sold cannon technology to the muslim Ottomans besieging the city, and was the end of the Byzantines, in the year 1453. It was the first time in history a city under siege was brought down by cannons destroying its walls. The Islamic army fought their way into the city and proceeded to torture and kill everyone left alive inside. It took the Islamists centuries but they got to where they wanted to be.

There's lots more interesting history to read. Massive Islamic armies were stopped "at the gates of Vienna" and stopped south of Paris after coming up through Spain. This is all horrifying history, the bloodshed and sacrifice and suffering was epic, staggering.

It is a different world today, but not as much as you would like to think.

Belisarius
Planes crashing into the twin towers, Pearle being beheaded, a woman's lopped off head on the ground, signs (in English) calling for an end to democracy and freedom - actual news footage. REALITY!
Some of it is footage shot by the Islamo-terrorists themselves. You call it propoganda. Well most of it is their own propoganda shot by their own cameramen. And you want to give us your kneejerk comments about bad translation. You call people "Muslim haters." The only thing I've seen is "Jew haters and Freedom haters." You are disgusting for defending this savagery.

Civilizations do not fall simply because the barbarians are at the gates. They fall because people inside open those gates and let them in.

If you want to leave Geert a comment, you can do so here.

abcd @7.53

"stopped before Vienna" - on 11th September, no less.

There is no defense of the behaviour displayed by the people in this film and of Islam. I would suggest you leftards open your frickin eyes and look.

What can we possibly do? Really, what can we do to stop this freight train?
As for Belisarius, I don't know what your problem is, unless you're Muslim. I have Christian Arabic friends, who've been desperate for us to listen to their warnings since years before 9/11, that Muslims are dangerous and must be stopped.

Ed.. just to clarify. That was Eugene Armstrong being beheaded in that clip...

Kate: you're really becoming a bore, are you aware of that? Would you play a filmed depiction of the Book of Judgment on your site? Of course you would not...

You would show a film of American or coalition bombs finding their targets and the brown bodies blown apart? Of course not. Why, Kate?

I just think, after seeing your act here, you are some kind of a coward. Isn't this cowardice to put up this material, designed to provoke maximum disturbance, but to remain hidden yourself. You're not even the messenger, Kate. Not even the mailman. You're a pornographer, Kate. Would your mother and father be proud of what you're doing with your life?

johnny daly~ those 'brown bodies' are usually terrorists who would kill you without the slightest hesitation.

YOU are the bore.

Leave us, Moron.

Belisarius, would you care to put the 'kill the infidels' part of the movie into context for us?

Please do NOT feed the two-bit link whore, John Daly. He posts here hoping that someone, anyone, will go to his silly blogg. He does not get any traffic at his risible excuse for a blogg unless he leaves stupid, childish, asinine, comments on real bloggs.

The religon of peace just hates to see the truth about themselves. Yes they will be boinging in the air with their fists as the have nothing to do and no place to do it in. Its a very good film.

Anyone read some of the Nostradamus interpretations and the Islamic war we should be in right now. Knowing the future can change the future even if it is only an interpretation of a prophet. History is full of prophets, oracles and seers and those who failed to listen. Caesar and the King of Troy for example. How appropriate March 15 just passed.

I wonder what part of the Arabic Koran the little girl got wrong when she referred to Jews as apes and pigs..

Hey John Daly, you forgot to tell Kate that she needs to get laid in your latest rant.. you're slipping boy!

"Would you play a filmed depiction of the Book of Judgment on your site? Of course you would not..."

Daly. Is it possible for you to think before you post? So are you suggesting that those who believe in "The Book of Judgment" are wreaking havoc around the world -as are Muslims. And if they are not-and they are not, you fool, - why the effing stupid attemped equivalence?

Well, John Daly, it's really hard to find current on-film examples to to accompany the Book of Judgements, isn't it? And it's downright impossible to find Christians blustering on about global domination and violence and the necessity of murder to uphold the faith, isn't it John? Wouldn't you agree?

Save yourself the fake outrage. It's comes across every bit as self-righteous and weak as you knew it was when you typed it out.

You know, there were a lot of your ilk around 73 years ago, and I'm sure there'll be more in the years to come. That's just the way it goes when when sanctimony combines with the privilege of peace to create ignorance.

It's a film, John, made by a Dutch fellow whose life is in danger, and whose compatriots have been murdered for the crime of noticing what's being preached in Dutch mosques. What's cowardly about that? What's cowardly about others showing it?
What's your definition of a coward, John?

Thank you Mr. Gain, well said. I was going to respond a while ago, but I noticed my toe nails were getting long.
Priorities...

Belisarius,please explain the Solamin Rushdie event for me, seeing as you are such an expert!!!!

Thank you Lydia, I really wasn't sure, because I found it so unpleasant to look at closely.
Appreciate the correction though.

Belisarius>

It’s views and attitudes such as yours that has placed European countries in their advanced stages of this cancer. That same naïve “tolerance” and equally disturbing denial you have expressed is what we in North America should fear as much as the cancer itself.
You are either a very stupid person unable to grasp the enormity of the Islamic problem in the west or an enemy collaborator of this totalitarian ideology. Possibly you do so unwittingly through your ignorance of Islam or do so deliberately through misdirection and deceit following the teachings of the Qur’an.

"Please do NOT feed the two-bit link whore, John Daly. He posts here hoping that someone, anyone, will go to his silly blogg. He does not get any traffic at his risible excuse for a blogg unless he leaves stupid, childish, asinine, comments on real bloggs."

Sorry terrence, you are wrong. The practice of not feeding the trolls has been practiced - to perfection - by Bush. The result is that the trolls now control the narrative.

The tedious but only road to victory -and it is tedious-is to rebut every stupid comment and lie until they surrender.

um John Daly I believe the correct term is maximum disruption and if you are so incensed and upset by what you see here then go elsewhere. The 8,233,553 comments on this blog suggests that it's not Kate who is the bore John Daly, it's the apologists, the leftards, the people like you John Daly who are truly boring. What does it take to wake you people up? Do you agree it's right and proper to denigrate and murder women? Is it ok by you to behead the people who disagree with your particular point of view? In my world John Daly these things are definitely NOT ok and I know my parents and probably Kate's would agree. What would your mother say John?

Belisarius: I'm curious, do you not see a problem in Europe with Islam?

The Daly nightmare is here in more ways than one.
Back to your cave Daly, say hello to Osama Bin Shittin'.

Belisarius: I'm curious, do you not see a problem in Europe with Islam?

No. I do however think they have a big problem with radical Islam, funded by Wahhabi oil money. It's that poison strain of Islam which is the source of modern terrorism. I do not believe that Islam itself or its practitioners are inherently evil. In fact, I count a number of them as friends and served with many in the CF. I suppose this skews my view somewhat.

The movie itself uses deceptive propaganda methodology, which is my principle criticism.

Alright Belisarius, do you not see a problem with extremist muslims, watered down by the left and observed by indifferent or less concerned muslims who will ultimately object or submit to the fanatics?

Josef Goebbels et al had to stage their anti-jew propaganda.

The moslems are creating all of the material for making people want to dislike them all by themselves. There is a big difference between staged and actually carrying it out.

Oh I forgot, in the fantasy world of the CHRC, "the truth is no defence". Maybe the tards in the CHRC will reconsider that just before their bodyless heads die after receiving the appreciation of their benefactors.

Brave move in showing this Kate.

I got to sick to watch after the beheading though.
It needs to be shown, I,m just to squimish I guess.

If you keep this up you will be in the good company of Ezra Levant & Mark Styne. Truth tellers don't go unoticed in PC Canada.

Brave move in showing this Kate.

I got to sick to watch after the beheading though.
It needs to be shown, I,m just to squimish I guess.

If you keep this up you will be in the good company of Ezra Levant & Mark Styne. Truth tellers don't go unnoticed in PC Canada.

Islam is the most dangerous cult on the planet, wrought with sadistic brainwashed robotic adherents who have been reduced to sub human creeps.
No one can determine what is the difference between radical Islam and moderate Islam.

Calling a religion moderate in the first place means there are other degrees of it and those are the degrees we can now call the scourge of the planet in this 21st century.

They are mad and unfit to be considered part of humanity. The civilized Western world will have to take severe steps to put down these insane creeps who lop heads off and torture fellow humans in the name of their cult.

I dunno,after watching this eye-opening video I feel a raging urge to put on a pair of Brass Knuckles...........

and go beat up a liberal!

Belisarius: "The movie itself uses deceptive propaganda methodology"
Please explain. And not because you "count a number of them as friends and served with many in the CF".
You must remember that there were people who thought and spoke exactly the way you are doing in the 1930s.
Please tell the rest of us why you think this movie has used deceptive propaganda methodology. Many English and Germans were friends (and the Royal family relatives numbering hundreds) in the 30s so having Muslim friends cannot be a serious consideration.
How many Muslims are there serving in the Canadian Forces, by the way? A serious question so I would be interested in your answer.

John Daly @ 8.15

You're not really part of this world, are you? You're a fiction. And what is happening is not real, right? Or is it all just a conspiracy?

Hey, I agree with you that there is a conspiracy to destroy World Trade centers and other American symbols and innocent victims all over the world; mostly muslim victims, if you do the counting, BTW. And do you know who the conspirators are? Islamo-fascists, and I'm being generous here.

You, however, not being able to do basic arithmetic, nor listen to the words of those who are committing and cheerleading these acts, are not of this world. Maybe you are some kind of superior, transcendanmt, ethereal, elf-like being - or maybe just a fool.

Brave move, things CBCpravda would not show while they stuff their site with Omar Khadr and Mama Khadr

CBCpravda ALL Khadr All the Time.

I've never heard of the Book of Judgment.

I know that it is not associated with Christianity in any way, whatever it is.

Maybe if a film-maker would like to film radical, fundamentalists Christians in action, he could film some of my friends in Africa. Some are teaching, some are building, some are working at orphanages; all are loving God and looking forward to Christ's return to establish the kingdom of God.

"I count a number of them as friends and served with many in the CF. I suppose this skews my view somewhat."

The movie itself uses deceptive propaganda methodology, which is my principle criticism.

Posted by: Belisarius at March 27, 2008 9:02 PM

Legions of Muslims in the CF? don't believe you. In fact, I think you are using deceptive propaganda methodolgy. You give yourseld away with this:

"with radical Islam, funded by Wahhabi oil money"

Oh yes, it's all our fault. We corrupted them by purchasing their oil. We should have insisted that they break their backs clearing the land -as we did.

Belarius @9.02

You're employing the same old trick there - it's not islam, just bad muslims. Problem is, the "bad" muslims are quoting the holy book of islam, and the traditions (Hadith), in support of their actions.

Of course, you wouldn't know this because you only read "good" versions of the Koran, and listen to "good" ignorant Saudi imams whose education amounts to quoting the Koran in ancient arabic that no-one understands.

Now go.

Go on.

Piss off!

What are you waiting for? Go!

..Out

When a madman has a knife at your neck it's a little too late to use the Chamberlain technique of appeasement.

just did a quick page thru on the old King James ,and there just aint no "Book of Judgements"

so I thought well he must mean "Judges", well if it is it is about one of the worst parts of history for the joos. they lose most of the battles and Jerusalem gets destroyed.

so I would say as usual you dont know WTF you are talking about.

I wonder aloud what Taliban Jack would say about this video.

Muslims make up about 0.5% of the CF, more in the Reserve. The last ship I served aboard had a crew of 40. Two of them were Muslims. Both volunteered for duty in the Gulf after 9/11, acting as Arabic translators with our Naval task force.

I'll take those guys any day over some of the ignorant fools who are posting here (I mean you, Terry Gain and RW).

Saudi Arabia, the home of Wahhabism, funds most of the most of the mosques in the west. They pay 80% of the mortages of U.S. mosques. Wahhabism, if you were not aware, is the totalitarian, radical strain of Islam which forms the basis of al Qaeda.

If Islam is so bad then why are we bothering with Iraq and Afghanistan? What do you tell the brave Iraqi and Afghan soldiers fighting and dying alongside our troops? Sorry, but you and your religion are evil.

There are more than a billion Muslims in the world. Millions live in the west. Like it or not, we have to find a way to coexist with them. I say that means cutting off Wahhabi money and throwing preachers advocating violence into jail. Encourage democracy. Fight terrorism. The old "Islam is evil" mantra isn't going to accomplish a damn thing.

Richard Ball

The Book of Judgement is the product of a dentist John Ballou Newbrough written in the mid to late 1800's. He supposedly wrote under the influence of spirits (automatic writing) and The Book of Judgement is only part of a much larger book Oahspe. I have no idea why it is even mentioned in this thread as no one takes Oahspe seriously. Well OK maybe a nutbar that takes Edgar Cayce seriously might, but like Cayce no one beyond first year college that even reads it. Which is completely unlike Islam where people take it so seriously that they are willing to kill and be killed in its defence and propagation. We need to have more videos like this one to prove that point despite Terry Gain and Belisarius' protestations.

RW>

“John Daly @ 8.15
You're not really part of this world, are you?”

Actually it’s worse RW, he’s an old hippy! You know, no bathing, lot’s of free love and dope along with hatred of “the man” amongst other drug approved Marxist views.

A liberal poster child that should have the authority to decide how you and your family should embrace a world filled with rivers of milk and honey……….and strawberry fields forever.

I seem to recall -- but maybe it's somebody else -- Belisarius goes to Islam on Line, which I believe is a ME source for "information" on Islam in English for useful idiots. Apology in advance if I'm mistaken.

This "out of context" trope is getting tiresome, eh? Ibn Warrag, Wafa Sultan, Ayaan Hirsi Ali don't think so! Hard to believe it can be said with a straight face.

I didn't expect to be frightened after all the reading I've done on the subject BUT I was frightened.

Of course it's propaganda! It's an essential weapon -- probably the most important one in this long war. We are losing the propaganda war. Israel, for example, is badly outgunned on the propaganda front. They don't even sort out the blood libels; e.g., they had nothing to say to the world about the al Durah affair. Another example: the US has done a poor job getting out new info about Saddam's connections with al Queda.

Remember: demonizing the Hun and the Jap was an important factor in WW2. War is no time for squeamishness, no time for delicacy, no time for nuanced and balanced presentation.

A very good film!

END MUSLIM IMMIGRATION NOW.

"We need to have more videos like this one to prove that point despite Terry Gain and Belisarius' protestations."Posted by: Joe at March 27, 2008 10:06 PM

Duh?

Sorry Terry I miss read one of your posts.

Belisarius: I disagree with you for the simple reason that the written doctrine that Islam is based on is barbaric. Condemning it is no different than condemning Nazis doctrine, Communist doctrine, or any other collectivist, violent, ideology. Don't confuse the condemnation of Islam, with the condemnation of all Muslims.

What would you have said during the cold war if people were bashing Russian communists? Would you condemn people for hating Russians? Or, how about, if we bashed "nazis" in the 40's? Would you condemn people for "hating" Germans?

German soldiers were, by the way, likely the most motivated and skilled of all soldiers to enter battle during WW2 ... so, what's your point; that you'd want German soldiers watching your back? By the way, judging Islam by 2 Muslims you worked with in the CF is racist and bigotted ... knowing 2 or 5 or 10 Muslims doesn't give you nor anyone else a position of authority on Islam. Islam must be judged in historic context.

I think that by isolating the disagreable aspects of Islam to Saudi influence shows incredible lack of knowledge on your part of the Islamic reality historically.

For starters, there has never been a single instance in history where Muslims, when they held a plurality, tolerated as equals non-Muslims. Only under dictatorship or the colonial boot did they do so.

Belisarius ... you don't get it. Get past the average Muslim ... they are no different than the average German, or Italian, or Japanese during WW2 ... they are basically innocent; it's their religion though that is evil.

Finally ... would've you told me, that I've got to get along with communists or nazis during WW2 or the cold war ... that I had no choice but to coexist with them?

Belisarius

Your anecdotal experiences with good Muslims are of limited value in assessing how to combat militant Islam. You might start by being a little more Christian in your approach and not accuse me of saying something I didn't say.

I didn't suggest that most Muslims are evil. Pretending that Islamists don't get their inspiration from the Koran is ridiculous and leaves us poorly equipped to deal with Islamism.

We should have no hesitation in taking issue with any beliefs -whether based on religion or not - that are used to justify killing and terrorizing others who don't share those beliefs.

Joe at March 27, 2008 10:06 PM:

Well, I don't want to be accused of being an anti-dentite.

Belisarius @ 10:05: you say, "There are more than a billion Muslims in the world. Millions live in the west. Like it or not, we have to find a way to coexist with them. I say that means cutting off Wahhabi money and throwing preachers advocating violence into jail. Encourage democracy. Fight terrorism. The old "Islam is evil" mantra isn't going to accomplish a damn thing."

You think that you have a balanced view about all of this, but you miss the whole point of this discussion. Nobody is cutting off foreign money or throwing anybody in jail or encouraging democracy. You're worried about root causes of the problem, but don't acknowledge that Wilder's colleagues ignore that these horrific things are happening at all.

Face the reality that if you were a Dutch parliamentarian with the initiatives listed above you'd be sitting next to Geert Wilder. I don't see why you are so appalled that he's chosen to show a film comprised of real events to communicate how radical Islam and public complacency is ruining their country.

Belisarius: "'Islam is evil' mantra" - no such thing. That this latest evil is being driven by Mohammed's teachings is real and must be addressed.
"Like it or not, we have to find a way to coexist with them." Like it or not, Belisarius, the Muslims you are talking about (in the west and around the world for that matter)have to learn that this is a real threat in the world today and begin to act.
Nazis were Germans (white and mainly Christian) and all of us had to recognize the danger and fight what were considered 'brothers'. We almost left it too late. (You do understand just how close we came to losing that war, don't you?)
When the millions of Muslims who are not terrorists (and do not practice the Koran in the same way the so-called radical Islamists do) stand up and say enough is enough then they will be outnumbered - in the same way the Nazis would have been in Germany in 1938.
It is difficult to believe that someone who served in the military (even the Navy) can have no more inkling of the politics of Islam and the very real threat the practioners of this system pose to all countries of the world than you do. May I ask, were you an officer?
By the way, I didn't ask if the Muslims were Arabs. Possibly you could also enlighten me in this instance. (I have a relative who is very high in your former sphere but will ask you instead.)
May I say, Belisarius, that the clip of the woman wearing a burqha being shot in the head took place in an open arena in Afghanistan and the stands held men who sanctioned this kind of sentence on women. Please don't ask us what do we tell the "brave Iraqi and Afghan soldiers fighting and dying alongside our troops". They damn well know! And I must say, at the moment I think they know better than you do what the threat of Islam under insane Immans and tyrannical leadership really is. More the pity that they don't voice it.
So, what is the consequence? Another courageous non-Muslim puts his life on the line in their stead.

When you think about it, Europe is where they have had many wars. They try to be nice but must be just naturally nasty. While things look bad for the EU we should not loose site of the fact that so far we have not seen the supressed European nature.
When it comes to forcing others to submit to their will we need only look at the histories of Spain, France, Germany, and England etc, to see what Europeans are really like. They can surpress their nature for only so long.
Already we are starting to see the emergence of that old European nature. This film will be yet another step in that re-emergence.

The issue is that our tactics have to change. You espouse Jihad you are kicked out of the country. Not jailed, inturned, or allowed to appeal. Kicked out and sent anywhere that will take you. No second chance, no I made a mistake, you are out. If you want to live here, practice your religion under the rules of the land, not Sharia, but Canadian law. If you can not live under our rules get out. If you do not like open societies get out.

The debate on personal attacks is misguided. The debate should be on what to do with the Jihadists period. Not who is bastardizing the Quoran with translations or interpretations, but who is preaching killing non-islamists.

Well said Terry Gain:

Being a Christian myself I a bore, the after Jesus aberrations in my own faith.

Like the inquisition & other abnormal non-Christian vicious fads that the Church has believed in. I call that not Christianity but Churchianity.

Four modern events come to mind in Christian circles;

1)David Koresh & his doomsday cult.

2)Jim Jones & his poisoned Koolside drinkers.

3)The Devil in the day cares, 80's style witch hunt.

4)The faith seed fad. Where if you gave God one dollar He would give 100 times more. Oral Roberts was big on that one, but except for Billy Graham & the Pope condemning this doctrine, it grew.

These all clearly go against established tradition the Gospels, if not the words of Jesus Himself in the Bible. Yet these doctrines, plus acts where sanctioned By laity groups & Ministers of the Church.

It was adherence to the Founders words & those Scriptures that defeated the abnormalities or malignancies that grew in the Church over time. A self correcting mechanism if you will.

That is what Makes Islam so dangerous is that not only does some of its visible institutions support terrorism but a large laity & there own Holy book does. As well there Prophet was war like in action, word & deed.

Most Muslims I agree are not fanatics , but their whole culture is devoted to a strict enforcement & environment of a feudal system, that encourages social outrages like honor killings , female mutilation & all the rest. Its sanctioned by custom & the Law.

The film clip was good propaganda but the real message lay in the little girls parroting of her Mother calling the Jews Pigs & Monkeys. Innocence suborned by hatred, disguised as Religion.

Personally I don't care if people worship purple dinosaurs. Just leave others to presume God or not in there own fashion. They can preach all they want, or not as well. As Jesus did when he told his disciples just to leave if there word was not taken as truth.

It boils down to respecting individuals as fellow humans. Not groups but singular people.

You know where to find copies if the liveleak feeds get pulled...

Surah 8.60

three transltions
008.060
YUSUFALI: Against them make ready your strength to the utmost of your power, including steeds of war, to strike terror into (the hearts of) the enemies, of Allah and your enemies, and others besides, whom ye may not know, but whom Allah doth know. Whatever ye shall spend in the cause of Allah, shall be repaid unto you, and ye shall not be treated unjustly.
PICKTHAL: Make ready for them all thou canst of (armed) force and of horses tethered, that thereby ye may dismay the enemy of Allah and your enemy, and others beside them whom ye know not. Allah knoweth them. Whatsoever ye spend in the way of Allah it will be repaid to you in full, and ye will not be wronged.
SHAKIR: And prepare against them what force you can and horses tied at the frontier, to frighten thereby the enemy of Allah and your enemy and others besides them, whom you do not know (but) Allah knows them; and whatever thing you will spend in Allah's way, it will be paid back to you fully and you shall not be dealt with unjustly.

They all say the same thing. You can find translations of all the suras quoted in the film from http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/008.qmt.html

The film's translations are not "bad" - they are accurate.

If this film clip doesn' instill concern in people then I don't know what will. I e-mailed most of the people on my mail list and asked them to access the link to Kate's site to watch this. I them asked them to send it to folks on their lists and so on and so on. This should be require watching for anyone concerned about the values of democracy, freedom, peace and free speech. This discussion must continue and it is up to right thinking people to make sure that it does continue. Our governments must be put on notice that they have to enact laws that suppress radical Islam and radical anything else. We must stop the "Neville Chamberline syndrome" that many of our Western governments (especially in Europe) have adopted. The CIA and CSIS have a big job - lets hope they are up to it.

Thanks for posting this Kate. It's propaganda, but the type of propaganda that needs widespread distribution. In case it gets pulled, I've downloaded the flv file from the torrent link and have my BitTorrent server up and running so other people can download it also. Anyone who's got the bandwidth to spare should use it to give this movie wide distribution.

Fortunately we're not in as bad a situation as the Eurabians are and we can help ourselves by banning any further islamic immigrants to Canada unless they're willing to agree to abide by Canadian laws. We don't need any more mindless totalitarians in this country.

What would my ma think? Well, she had this great little old simple prairie type saying: the bit pig squeals loudest. Lotsa squealing tonight at small dead animals, eh? Where's Kate, is what I want to know. Seems to me what she does is not any more complicated or noteworthy than old fashioned s--t disturbing.

Would she also say something about the pot calling the kettle black perhaps?

John Daly you are not. He's a good ole boy yankee golfer. Obviously you are not he. What you are dude is an asscap coward. Try shutting your pie hole and get a life. If you can't see the danger that is out there then you are one of them or a complete moron. We do not suffer fools. If it was me I'd just kick yer ass and send you on your way.

Belisarius was possibly in the Navy when a policy seems to have been brought into place by Rear-Admiral Tyrone Pile (Taken from CBC Aug. 25,
2006). He visited the Ottawa Central Mosque to invite Muslim youth to enlist, and said the Canadian military "does not reflect the cultural diversity in this country which is a shame".
Because: "The Canadian Forces is really dominated in large part by Canadian white males." (same source)

RCN Cmdr. Denise LaViolette said recruiting people of different religions and cultural backgrounds did present challenges, but the military is doing its best to accommodate their needs re dietary needs, prayer times, etc. The three Muslim women in the forces (in 2006) were issued specially tailored uniforms that were looser fitting than usual and included the hijab, the Muslim headscarf.

More delicate is the question of fighting people of their own religion and culture, but Bader Siddiqi, president of the Ottawa Muslim Association said that is an issue for many other people who join the military, including Christians. He did warn, though, that a more aggressive role in Afghanistan could be an obstacle that could harm Canada's reputation as a peace-loving nation.

So, there you have it. Peace-loving Muslims in the military of a peace-loving nation will spread good-will. Hope the recruitment drive has been successful.

"Our enemies have some legitimate grievances". Such as, we are Kuffar. Invite them to tea, read them some poetry, sing them a song, pick them some flowers, and sooner or later, the sunshine of your love will change their hearts and all will live in peace and harmony forever. "Don't be such a mouse. Grow up and get real." That's what ma would think.

...guys are bitchin about this translation, and that translation.
Fer christ sakes people, doesn't the blood on your monitors, and tv screen tell you something?

Beheadings not enough?
Airliners in buildings?
Hello??

gellen>

I’m a little confused (not with you) as to why anyone would want Muslims in our armies to begin with?
Can anyone else not remember the American Muslim soldier that ran into the command post with a grenade killing a bunch of real soldiers at the beginning of the Iraqi war?
Ok fine, diversity and proving one’s worth to your country is important, but separate and render harmless these units from the regular troops at least. Honestly ask yourself how safe would you feel on patrol with a couple of them locked and loaded at your backside? This can’t be a positive thing for our troops moral with these nagging questions distracting from their immediate tasks at hand. Just saying.

Listen to what the Muslim's themselves tell us: "Take lessons from the examples you can see!" Every Western blogger, Liberal, Libertarian, Republican, Conservative, everyone! should post this video.

Listen to what the Muslim's themselves tell us: "Take lessons from the examples you can see!" Every Western blogger, Liberl, Libertarian, Republican, Conservative, everyone! should post this video.

http://www.radionetherlands.nl/currentaffairs/region/netherlands/080317-wilders-de-winter-mc

It never ceases to amaze me how radical jihadis and Muslim haters use this same method to justify themselves.
-Belisarius

And it never ceases to amaze me how liberals accuse anyone of "Muslim hatred" if he calls into question the explicit teachings of the Quran. Gee it kinda seems like the mullahs believe that this hatred is right there in the Quran, don't it dude? The little girl in the video seems to believe it too.

So Belisarius, if you studied the Quran so thoroughly, how can you possibly fail to see these words of hate which lace every other sentence?

And do you doubt whether women are oppressed under Islamic shariah? Isn't any decent person disgusted by the plight of poor Muslim women trapped in hot burkhas? Maybe it is you libs who are "Muslim-haters" because you are busy celebrating multi-culturism while Muslim women suffer around the world.

How can you libs be so willingly blind and deaf, and ready to sell out the West at every opportunity?

I submit that followers of the Liberal faith embrace Islam because both religions loathe Western culture and its manifest freedoms.

Freedom from Islamic shariah and terror is the new civil rights movement. Liberals will fight against this movement just as they fight against everything which is good and decent.

Thank-you for posting this Kate. Mr. Wilders is a very brave man. He must love his country very much to put his life on the line like this to try to save it and the Dutch people. It is a dire warning to North America (as was 911) that, if we care at all about ourselves and our coutries, we will heed.

after all the comments to this point i will still say islam is evil as are all those who follow the pedophile warlord mohammed.

Hmmmm, let me see...

Case 1)

Make a movie that says Christ is gay, or any other of a million things to slander Christians.

Christians complain, write letters, stop donations, beg for media time (Usually without too much success). No threats of violence, no be-headings, no riots...

Lefties pontificate - We need to examine all aspects of the subject, anything that creates discussion is a good thing, blah blah.

Case 2)
Make a movie that even shows a picture of Mohammed, let alone criticise the violence that seems to be inherent to the religion.

Muslims riot, threaten to riot more, threaten and execute violence, threaten and execute people, get ample media coverage for their point of view, etc,

Lefties condemn the film for agrravating the muslims, if there is violence it is the filmmakers fault, they made the muslims do it. Film should be banned they say.

Conclusion

Lefties are more nutty than the nutters!!

I add my thanks, Kate. This is must-watch.

And to think that the Liberals' immigration policies (sic and sick) brought in Muslims and their families in great numbers--not all, to be sure, Islamofascists--put them on welfare, with free, all-inclusive health benefits which the vast majority of hard-working Canadians are without (because they can't afford them)--so that they would continue to vote for them.

I'm sorry. I find that to type "Liberals" is to tell a lie. They AREN'T L/liberals; they're Librano$. 'Anything to maintain power, anything to get their hands on Canadians' money for their own nefarious schemes to make them rich.

So, now Canada is home to too many immigrants who have no intention of assimilating into our society and who, in fact, wish us harm.

Thanks, Librano$. Thanks a lot.

And the rest of us better wake up fast.

I've read the Koran, when the surahs reference the "Battle Ground" it means any non-Muslim land on this planet. The Koran preaches and demands for global domination, the less offensive surahs tell Muslims to try and woo us then tax us and then kill us if we don't surrender. The koran reminds me of a military manual, the moral of the koran is total and under distruction of all other religions. The Koran demands for a global Caliphate, the question is will Muslims want peace or global jihad? I really don't know.

The video is a series of global news reports, followed up with Muslim leaders explaining why it's okay to kill Jew Pigs and Infidel dogs and Hindus etc. It's not fiction those events happened and were reported globally. If Muslims turn to rioting and ranting the video record of those riots will give him the material for "Part Two". If a video of Muslims committing violent acts triggers further violence how can they possibly blame anyone but themselves for their violence tendancies?

I'd have to give Fitna two thumbs up, way up. If that makes me an evil Islamophobe, so be it. Say it with me, people: "I'm JAFI and I'm proud!"

Praise be to Kate for posting this.

Belisarius means well. However, his view is slanted.

Islam is a foundationally violent ideology, regardless of how one wants to interpret it, or tart it up. There are several reliable english translations of the Quran found here: www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran.

As MND noted, Belisarius probably gets his translations from the Muslim Brotherhood at islamonline.

War is deceipt - Mohammad, Hadith

Keep in mind clever Muslims will often use the lesser, humble verses, such as "no compulsion in religion." These verses are often used out of context, or not explained (kitman) ie "peace" means submission to allah and "innocent" means that you are Muslim. No non-Muslim is innocent.

Also, Muslims are conveniently provided with two surahs pertaining to the same topic, in which case they can believe one and reject the other, or use to deceive (dualism). As well, abrogation is how the Quran is divided between the relatively peaceful Medina period and the violent Mecca period. For example, Quran 9:5 abrogates no less than 124 less violent verses.

9:5 Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

Islam is an idea and ideas can be rejected. An evil idea is not made palatable or acceptable just because a billion people believe it.

The more information Muslims receive regarding the ideology, the more they are waking up and leaving.

Islam is unreformable and irredeemable. It can only be discarded, as every violently evil ideology must be.

This video did nothing to change my views, it just depicted what I already understand the situation to be.

I guess we should expect grovelling from the Dutch government as they quake in fear of demostrations, I guess we can expect attempts on Wilders' life. The Canadian army liberated the Dutch from the Nazi yoke, it seems that they and the rest of Europe are complacently allowing another yoke to be put on them, the Muslim yoke.
(copied from a similiar posting on the Sentinel's Blog)

John Daly sez: "the bit pig squeals loudest. Lotsa squealing tonight at small dead animals, eh?"

Not surprisingly, he's using Islamic terminology to dehumanize people he doesn't agree with. "Sons of apes and pigs." The pigs are generally described as the Christian crusaders.

John Daly is siding with a racist, misogynist, murderous, bigoted, unbelievably hateful ideology. Is his defence ignorance? I hope so for his sake.

While many people who comment on the conservative blogs seem to feel that Fitna is telling them nothing new it should be remembered that the point of the movie is to broaden the audience.

European Governments have already taken steps to Ban It..... The UN wants to criminalize movies and books like it.

The point of the movie is bot what is being said ... it's the Fact that It IS Being Said in a more public manner.

Waiting for BBC and the like to air it. If they do watch for extensive disclaimers ahead of the broadcast.

Sorry ... bot = not

"that the point of the movie is to broaden the audience."

Agree with you 100% on this OMMAG. I find it surprising how laid back the younger 20 somethings are on this issue. At least from what I see among my daughter's friends who view the Muslim fanatics and their supporters as just a teeny tiny minority amongst Muslims and that the issue will just fade away over soon.

If conservatives here really believe that Islam is unreformable and irredeemable and fundamentally evil, then why the hell are we in Afghanistan? Why do you support staying in Iraq? What purpose could it possibly serve to spend billions and billions of dollars in the Middle East if they "all want to kill us"?

We fight them there so we don't fight them here!

sheesh, that was a no brainer!!

Also, because we care.

I happened to catch the CBC Radio 2 News this AM and their lead story was this film being released on line. I hope it encourages a few others to seek and find it.

I have a very strong tolerance for blood and gore, but I cannot watch these jihadi videos where kidnapped victims are decapitated. It happens about halfway through.

I was in Pennsylvania when Nick Berg was murdered, and they were showing the video on every screen around. I wasn't sure why, of if they actually were showing the act or merely the preamble, but it really surprised me and my heart went out to his family. Playing terrorist-made propaganda, and digesting it, is playing into their game.

These snuff films violate every one of my principles, and this is one dude who cannot abide.

RIP to all the victims of these cowards. I refuse to watch their productions, and despise their brainwashing media attempts to replace German Holocaust atrocities as modern Israeli tactics against the refugee nation abandoned by Jordan.

Yes, most muslims do not support these fanatics, but the fact that, until recently in Pakistan, the Taliban/bin Laden cult were not declared ex-communicado from Islam sure made the silence seem like approval.

I do applaud the brave filmmaker.

Younger people have the ability to think that this group exists merely to free their homelands from the Imperial aggressors occupying their homeland.

Younger people also feel that Islamic terror is a bigger threat than the mutual deterrent nuclear Cold War. Only if they get the bomb, kids.....

Daniel Pipes has long contended that radical Islam is a problem to which moderate Islam is the solution. Here is his first published remark after viewing Fitna:

Comment: I disagree with the one-to-one correlation of the Koran with Islamist behavior, as though 1,400 years had not passed in between, but I concede the film's simple, powerful argument.

Joe... Yes if it encourages all 11 of CBC listeners to watch it, it will help

.

I thought Gene Wilder was dead.

.

"If conservatives here really believe that Islam is unreformable and irredeemable and fundamentally evil, then why the hell are we in Afghanistan? Why do you support staying in Iraq? What purpose could it possibly serve to spend billions and billions of dollars in the Middle East if they "all want to kill us"?"

Well, hopefully Ted, they'll have a modicum of freedom for the first time in their lives. Including the freedom to leave Islam.

Although, I half-heartedly agree with you. They should also be demanding that Islam is separated from the state, legal and education systems in these countries, as the Americans did with Shintoiism in Japan.

I also disagree with the one-to-one correlation of the Koran with Islamic fascism and its violent behaviour.

However, I think it is extremely important to make and show, in a widespread manner, films such as this one, showing both the violence in the Koranic texts and the violence in Islamic fascism. Muslims have to see this; they have to acknowledge BOTH 'images' and then, they have to debate whether the one requires the other.

The Islamic world has never examined itself. It has been isolate for centuries. Its ideology has been static for centuries. Suddenly, within the past generation, the Islamic world finds itself in the middle of a modern world - and its social, economic and political modes are all operating in the 8th century.

On its own, it has refused to change. Instead it has attempted to deal with this traumatic difference by retrenching, by returning even further into past centuries. That's Islamic fascism. Or, it has insisted that the Western world is the one that must change - and must adopt 8th century style social, legal and political behaviour.

The West has started to fight back. It has, via the US, moved the internal fight within Islam, the Al Qaeda desire to return to the 7th century back into the ME. It's now being fought by tribes, who must disband and collaborate if they are to live in the modern world.

And, the West is starting to fight back against the disastrous SLEEP of multiculturalism, which saw the other tactic of Islam to 'do nothing' but to remain 'as it was'...This other tactic was to try to get the West to change. Not Islam. But the West. To adopt Sharia, to accomodate discrimination against women, and so on. Now the West is fighting back against multiculturalism.

Now, Islam is being forced, by the West, to examine itself. To examine its own axioms, its own articles of faith. The political cartoons, these films- yes, they'll create violence - but it's a phase that has to be endured by the West. We cannot allow our freedom, fought for so hard over the centuries - to disappear.

We can't allow Islam to return us to the 8th century!!

So, difficult as it is, for both sides actually, films, cartoons, talk, talk and questions, must be continuous and public. Islam has to face itself; it has to confront its own axioms and see how disastrous they are.

I'm thinking if we want liberals everywhere to grab a brain and actually see how evil this "religion" is, we need Al Gore to take this film on the road and promote it. They fell for everything he had to say in "Inconvenient Truth", didn't they?

Only this threat is actually real.

For a more complete chronicle of words which hang themselves, see:

www.prophetofdoom.net

The webmaster has chronicled a very detailed compliation of verses from many of the inspirational writings that inspire the imams (prayer leaders) to committ murderous rampages.

And, even though this film snippet highlights some of the verses, there are many more verses and analysis.

It's an interesting site to explore.

Ted, Islam like the Nazi scourge on humanity is unreformable and we are in Afghanistan and Iraq because they are strategic real estate right in the heart of that putrid ME swamp that needs draining.

Bullet therapy seems to work better with homicidal jihadi Neanderthals than the collective wishes of braindead lefties hoping that they will come around to reason with us.

Initially, I paid little attention to the verses in the film, just as I don't consult the Bible when I'm deciding about anything. But that's my mistake. Just because I consider the Bible an interesting mix of myth and history, doesn't mean that Islamists apply the same rational judgment to the Koran. For those who say this as a "hate" video, I agree, but the hate appears to be coming from the Muslim extremists directed at anyone who is considered "other". None of the rules of forbearance, love, forgiveness or gentleness apply when it involves people of other faiths, cultures or even people within their own faith who happen to disagree.

I'm sure there are many Muslims who deplore their extremist brothers, but by not exerting a moderating influence, and by being defensive about these ranters, they contribute to the problem. And why do moderates not speak out? Likely for the same reasons that Westerners bite their tongues, and magazines don't print cartoons and internet providers don't show this film. It's from fear. Where before, we might have refrained from comment because of reluctance to offend or because of tolerance and cultural sensitivity, we have now become afraid to speak out for fear of reprisal against ourselves, or against innocents whose only crime is to be accessible to fanatics (such as the poor man beheaded in the film). Hirsi Ali, Theo Van Gogh, the Danish cartoonist, Salman Rushdie, and this filmmaker are amazingly brave--some might even say, foolhardy. But I am grateful to them. But for them and their like, we might simply turn away before the most horrible violations of human rights through some unwillingness to offend and libertarian naivete. (When in Rome....) But when one observes a wrong, religion and culture should not be used to defend it. And it is no defense to point out that other groups have also done evil things. Other people's evils don't excuse one's own. It's like the little kid saying "But Jimmy does it," when he's being reproached for wrongdoing.

The most effective protests should come from those who are part of that culture and religion. There must be reform. Can you imagine a world ruled by these madmen? And the more they rant unchallenged, the more pumped they get. The more afraid the rest of the world becomes. Positions become hardened and discourse among reasonable people stops. So if you are a witness to evil don't imagine that because you are silent or you are not bombing innocent people, you have no responsibility.

We all have a duty to stand for humanity before the barbarians. So this film, good or bad, is posing some questions that I think deserve some hard thinking from everyone who cares about freedom, the rights of women and children, and the safety of all. If cruelty and repression are done in the name of your religion, don't excuse it or cover it up or try to argue it away. Admit it, speak out against it and work for reform.

So penny, I take you agree with Obama and the lefties that the US should get out of Iraq? What better than to leave it in the midst of an insurgency, letting Muslims kill Muslims. What's up with this "peace" that Bush keeps striving for, anyway? What's with all these billions upon billions of dollars wasted on hospitals and infrastructure if that is just going to make the "Neanderthals" stronger. I take it you are with sensible Ann Coulter and would prefer we just kill all their leaders.

Nevermind Egypt, Jordon, Turkey and their moderate Muslim leaders, that's just a fiction.

Ironic use of the term "Neanderthal", penny, come to think of it.

ET, agree, but I believe that there must be a failure of Islamic fundamentalism first, and only then will Islam search for an adaptation that better integrates it into the world community. As long as the feedback is positive, the fundamentalists will continue on their path.

That is why we must be in Afghanistan, and elsewhere. We must be defeating them at every opportunity, on every front, in every forum. On the battlefield where possible, in the hearts and minds in the developing world, in our institutions, media ... everywhere. We must demonstrate a resolve to deliver Islamic fundamentalism a defeat.

A very dear friend of mine is Muslim. Our families grew up together. So I know it is entirely possible to not just co-exist, but to co-operate.

Will negotiation and appeasement result in the needed reform? If negotiating and appeasement are read as successful feedback to the fundamentalists, then, no. Now that Islamic fundamentalism has evolved beyond being a mere pest, we must slam shut this avenue of its development, harshly. The message must be clear: we will not allow this to succeed. We are resolved, we will not.

I also believe the fundamentalists have underestimated us, have overcalculated their momentum and strength, and will blunder, sadly, by taking some atrocious step that finally galvanizes the non-muslim world. We've seen it before - megalomania injects itself into the mix, and is unchecked. This is what I believe lies at the heart of the matter: once more in history, megalomania has chanced upon an efficacious vehicle, and has stepped on the accelerator. This particular manifestation has it diffuse - embodied between the ears of a few theocrats.

"that the point of the movie is to broaden the audience."

I’ll agree with that, and the internet is probably the best medium to get the message out to the more important younger audience than the MSM ever would.

Curiously though, how many western parents, even here will bother to show this to their kids, young teens for example? Most I’ll suspect won’t want to trouble them or are afraid they’re too young for the violence or simply want to shelter them. The Muslims unfortunately do not have these restrictive moralities concerning their kids, thus their non-pampered children are fighting from birth.

Where the hell is Jordon Ted?

People are starting to wake up:

"Dutch: Mass Immigration Our Biggest Mistake Ever"

AMSTERDAM, 27/03/08 - The majority of the Dutch are negative on Islam and immigration. Additionally, their knowledge of Dutch history is meagre, according to a survey by three history professors.

According to 56 percent of the Dutch, Islam is a threat to the Dutch identity. As well, 57 percent named admitting large groups of immigrants as "the biggest mistake in Dutch history".

The results come from the History Monitor. This survey was carried out among a representative group of 1,069 people by De Volkskrant newspaper, Historisch Nieuwsblad history journal and TV programme Andere Tijden in consultation with history professors James Kennedy, Niek van Sas and Hans Blom.

Shaken:

Ultimately, it will have to be Muslims themselves who boot out the imams who advocate violent solutions in the mosques.

There really is no structure, as such, where imams can sit down and agree on heresies, such as was done by the early Christian councils.

Muslims themselves say about 2% of their population is radicalized, which means (1.5 billion x .02) about 30 million.

IMHO, one of the main questions they will have to answer is: were the acts of Muhammad something appropriate only for his time or are they a blueprint for emulation?

I'm quite sure close to 100% of human beings in the Judeo/Christian tradition understand the violent acts described in the Old Testament were a record of that historical time, not something which must be emulated today.

That seems to be a point lost on jihadists.

Hard to suppress something linked and hosted all over the world, eh, mojos?

Ted,

I'll turn that one around on you and ask you if you think that the islamic world is reformable and if so, do you support Iraq and Afghanastan?

Pat Condells video essay on radical Islam is well worth the watch as well.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=30a_1204991129

Warwick:

Afghanistan - yes, absolutely, wholeheartedly, stop this posturing about fixing a departure time, pour more money and soldiers into rebuilding the country.

Iraq - UK/US did not go into Iraq to "reform" it, nor to root out terrorists who were plotting against us. Hussein was an evil, despotic, murderer, right up there with the worst, but he was not an Islamic fundamentalist and in fact kept the extremists at bay because they were a threat to his autocratic control. So Iraq was always going to be a distraction from getting the job done and done right in Afghanistan, and was inevitably going to become (as Dick Cheney predicted) a "quagmire". That it may come out of the quagmire, doesn't change what it was. The more complicated question is: now that the US is there, now what? I would have preferred them not to go in for a thousand reasons, but the post-WWII model of European re-building seems to me the best (if unlikeliest) models.

Now Warwick, I was decent enough to respond to you, will you return the favour? If you think the Muslim faith is irredeemable and fundamentally murderous, why should we spend a dime in rebuilding Iraq or Afghanistan and try to rebuild their infrastructure or develop a democracy?

It seems to me that the anti-Muslim sentiments of Kate and Shaidle and the conservative commenters here are fundamentally at odds with the objectives of the Bush and Harper governments in Afghanistan and Iraq.

It is beyond question that most (as in more than 90%) of Muslims world wide would view the acts portrayed in this film as abhorrent. We know this because of current experience in Iraq and Afghanistan. Little kids sit down in the middle of the road to keep the house sized American tank from rolling over the mine they saw some "freedom fighter" plant the day before.

It is beyond question that our forces are doing great good works in those countries. Little kids did not warn the Russians when -they- went to Afghanistan, did they?

I think that takes care of Ted and John DUHley.

The average Canadian Muslim will react to the film the same way I react to some of the modern "art" we see occasionally, involving crucifixes and various bodily fluids. They will be offended, they will say that Mr. Wilders is a disgusting POS Leftist, and they will MOVE ON.

It is beyond question. That is exactly what will happen, as day follows night. Because they are civilized human beings, and they act the same as everybody else does.

It is beyond question that this film will act like a flashlight in the kitchen, illuminating all the nasssty little insects hiding in the wainscotting as they run about chittering. The 0.005% of Muslims in this country who are insane fanatics and live for the destruction of their enemies will take this opportunity to stick their diseased heads up, the police will shoot them off, and that will be that.

Questions?

None whatsoever, Phantom. Well said.

None whatsoever, Phantom. Well said.

Although most of the prior commenters would seem to disagree with you.

Pete Hoekstra, senior Republican on the US House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence:

"Even if the new Wilders film proves newsworthy, it is likely that few members of the Western media will air it, perhaps because they have been intimidated by radical jihadist threats… I defend the right of Mr. Wilders and the media to air this film because free speech is a fundamental right that is the foundation of modern society. Western governments and media outlets cannot allow themselves to be bullied into giving up this precious right due to threats of violence. We must not fool ourselves into believing that we can appease the radical jihadist movement by allowing them to set up parallel societies and separate legal systems, or by granting them special protection from criticism."

Meanwhile ctv's spin....the video is soon to be banned for it's unacceptable content.According to ctv even christian groups are denouncing the video,and of course muslims around the world are offended by the propaganda. The so called news spent more time on Brenda Martin and her privacy rights being trampled by the Harper government,it pains them too much to actually use his title Prime Minister.

Thanks Ted.

I think, because I pay attention to what's in front of my face every day, that Muslims in Canada are fundamentally normal humans just trying to get by like everybody else, salted with the odd fruitloop just like every other identifiable group. All the Irish weren't in the IRA, were they? Maybe 0.005% were.

The trick is to shake the fruitloops out as painlessly as possible, and then dropkick them into jail.

I'd say this movie, heinous piece of Leni Reifenstahlesque propaganda that it is (no, I didn't like it either) will give things a damn good shake.

This is an amazingly offensive movie. But in a free country you're free to post amazingly offensive sh1t on the web. Canada's either a free country or it isn't.

Anybody says it isn't will have me to deal with. That, like I said, is beyond question.

I will wait for the fallout to see exactly how free we are,like I said,ctv is reporting that the video is soon to be banned.

I agree with Hoekstra. While I don't like the film, Wilders has every right to show and distribute it. Rather than trying to have it banned, Muslim groups should debate the content and explain how it slanders their religion and the vast majority of its practitioners. The same violent street protests, death fatwas and murder that accompanied the cartoon controversy will only give more credence to the idea that Islam itself is the problem.

It's funny, the video is going to be banned as CTV reports. Many are saying that it (video) was done strickly as a political statement to promote an anti-muslim agenda. Alot of these same people are pretty quiet when there are disturbing statements, quotes, sermans and terrorist attacks being publizied with in the Mosques, literature and web. Where are the Muslim leaders and Imans when these events take place? Do they hold a public demonstration denoucing the intolerant statements or cowardly attacks. I have yet to see thousands in the streets chanting death to intorerance or terrorist acts.
All the misguided indignation to the video flys in the face of the content of the video. These leftards should be screaming bloody murder about the lack of anti'terrorism leadership within the Muslim community. That is the travesty not the messenger.

Someone here called me a "two bit link whore..." This really hurt my feelings. So, in my despair and anger I have written some equally hurtful things about y'all, yonder, at my blog. Mind, my blog is not for everyone. You need to be reasonably open-minded to get what I have to offer.

So, big boy, why don't you come on up to my place and see me sometimes. I don't know about you, but I am always fascinated to read about myself. Read about yourselves. You know you want to:

http://johnnymaudlin.blogspot.com/2008/03/my-dear-friends-over-yonder-at-swell.html

What is offensive, to any rational human being, is the Islamic ideology, including its texts and its prophet's life example and sayings.

What is offensive is this ideology's constitution in shariah law, which includes the death penalty for anybody that rejects the ideology.

What is offensive is this ideology being used for 1400 years to carry out an allah ordained, holy holocaust against non-believers and their lands.

What is offensive is anybody who defends this anti-civilization and anti-human ideology, whether that's through ignorance or subterfuge.

What is offensive is the UN HRC along with the Islamic theocracies signing a declaration against the defamation of Islam and urging countries to legally prohibit it. This is not only an attack against freedom of speech, it is an attack against criticism of Islam, thereby placing Islam alone and supreme above all other ideologies.

That is offensive. A 15 minute film is not.

No traffic today Daly? Typical.

Simply brilliant!!

Some people on this thread have compared this film to the "art" where a crucifix was immersed in urine with dicriptions of how Christians felt or reacted to it. As a Christian I could care the less. What was soaked in urine was a bit of metal. Jesus the real man was offered and suffered a far greater indignity to His Being at the time of His crucifixion so dipping a bit of metal into a jar full of urine seems a bit lame. However it raises another point of truth. Jesus was thoroughly degraded and most cruelly killed, throughout which time His prayer was "Father forgive them they do not know what they are doing". Christians taking their lead from His example turn the other cheek when their Saviour is mocked. How then shall the Muslims react to this film? If the actual footage of people being killed or other religions being insulted are the actions of a fringe group then how can the remainder distance themselves. If on the other hand this is the actions of the more strident believers how will the remainder defend the more rabid believer? Banning the film to my mind would be similar to seeing a murder about to take place in the street and pulling the blinds so I don't have to witness it. Is the film accurate in its depiction of a few, many, most or all Muslims? Does the film accurately depict common interpretations of the relevant portions of the Qur'an? If it is not accurate how should we react? If it is accurate how should we react. BTW I do not now or ever have recommend the destruction of any body or property beyond the destruction of a belief system that is harmful to the holder of said belief or the neighbour of the holder of said destructive belief.

I called you John DUHley, and you're proving me right. John DUHley, putting the 'tard in Leftard.

Well, that certainly didn't take long. Live Leak just stopped carrying Fitna, as mentioned on the other thread.

Death threats, eh? Niiiice.

So John Duhley, still wondering why we mock you? How do you like your jihadi buddies now?

Does anyone realistically believe that whatever fatwas were threatened will now also be withdrawn?

It is still up on UTube.

No surprise on that update. "Fitna" violated the MSM's sacred dogmas of self-censorship, political correctness even to the point of cultural suicide and the multi-culti myth. It had to be compromised somehow. The mention of the morons in the British press, their "ill informed reports", is intriguing.

So here we are at this point in the west's history with freedom of speech rapidly slipping away. A factually correct expose of this century's biggest menace can't find a media outlet. Amazing. Ask yourself who is more dangerous to our culture's survival, the 7th century fundamentalist Islamic troglodyte or the well-heeled college educated lefty quislings with the wired brain of last century's fascists among us?

More positive feedback for Islamic fundamentalists: "intimidation works, we are succeeding".

ET: Good posts. You're right that the West needs to do this over and over and over again. And you're right, the rage seems to be subsiding somewhat, perhaps because they are slowly getting what a cariactature they've become (see: Rage Boy, et al).

HOWEVER, and following your excellent tutelage on tribalism (and having read Popper's Vol 1 of The Open Society and concurrently some Hayek) I have to re-emphasize that massive muslim benefit-seeking "migration" might be dragging this adjustment you mention; that perhaps, the West will slowly descend into tribalism instead (after all, that's what most western intelletuals want eh?); that Western civilization is being irreversibly diluted by shari'a law, drip, drip, and drip.

That said, you can't but feel slightly more optimistic with recent trends and also very excited to see how irrelevant MSM is becoming in the equation.

Brava Kate!

It is truly unbelievable that the video has been removed because of death threats.
Is the police investigating, or are they too scared?

Unbelievable how fast the muzzies shut down Liveleak with death threats and the MSM does nothing and says nothing. I thought the movie was incredible and so low-key which made its message all the more powerful. Must download it before it disappears.

Everything he showed is available in the media yet pulling it all together is somehow anti-muslim. Unless we keep pounding away at this evil and dragging it into the light of day it will swallow us up.

What cowards the European countries are for distancing themselves from this threat. Of course these countries folded like a deck of cards when Hitler threatened them. Where do you think the word Quisling came from and they are doing it again.

Canuckguy @ 11:05 AM: "'that the point of the movie is to broaden the audience.'

"Agree with you 100% on this OMMAG. I find it surprising how laid back the younger 20 somethings are on this issue. At least from what I see among my daughter's friends who view the Muslim fanatics and their supporters as just a teeny tiny minority amongst Muslims and that the issue will just fade away over soon."

That was the other point I was going to make this morning @ 7:41 a.m., but had to hightail it to work:

The Librano$, in addition to allowing mega-immigration from groups not willing to assimilate and wishing us harm, also introduced multiculturalism into our school system @ 30 years ago. No wonder our "younger twentysomethings" are so laid back: Hey, another culcha? What's the prob?

Most of our young people have been brainwashed into thinking that ALL CULTURES ARE EQUAL. Islamofascists = Judeo-Christians, although multiculturalism-Canadian-style actually teaches our young people that Judeo-Christianity is WORSE than any other culture/faith. You know? It's a COLONIAL thing.

We shouldn't be surprised that our young people are "laid back" about the threat to their way of life. They've been lulled into thinking they have no enemies, that everything/everyone is "cool" thanks to the Librano$ and the fact that Judeo-Christianity, which actually is a religion of peace--but which does know how to discern an enemy in our midst--has been deep-sixed from "official" Canadian life: read government agencies, universities, the education system, the MSM.

We're reaping what we've sown. I'm not sure how many generations it takes to reclaim our cultural/faith heritage...

You can still find it on YouTube.

I think movie is very provocative as well is should be.

We in the West need to continue to provoke the massive numbers of radical facist musims all over the world to keep them increasing their attacks on the West. Once everyone has been satisfactorily outraged and or victimized by these monsters, we can them provide the support to our governments and our our armed forces to start killing them in far, far greater numbers.

We must also continue to badger our politicians to end all Muslim immigration in the West.

If we are ever to have a chance to survive as free people we MUST defeat these beasts NOW!

We can beat them if we resolve to do so. So far, as I see it, they are winning because we are letting them win.

How stupid is that? The Leftists, Homosexuals, women's groups, university students, the NDP and all other haters of Western society are all complicit in the terrorist's Jihad against us.

We might want to start doing something about them too.

BTW, I should also have mentioned that Judeo-Christianity has been deep sixed in a lot of "Christian" Churches too: United, Anglican, and other denominations which allow political correctness to trump Christian teachings.

How can I download it, and from where?

Dutch leftists apologize to Islam. (via LGF)
...-

Fitna the Movie
We’re tired of waiting. So, let’s do it ourselves! Sorry!

We can compete for attention however. And we can produce disinformation. So we are going to make Movies called “Fitna” in which we apologise for Geert Wilders embarrassing behaviour. We will make so many of them that it will be hard to find the movie by Wilders without finding lots of movies apologising for it.

Just to let the world (and ourselves) know that allowing confused people to speak does not mean that we agree with what they say. Sorry.

So if you want to join in; just make your own Fitna movie and put it on line. Put on a blonde wig, look cross eyed and say you’re sorry. Film it with you telephone or camera. Then, publish it on line as many times as you can, Youtube, Hyves, Myspace any place. Call it Fitna by Geert Wilders. Add any statement that you like to. Link to your movie and to other movies you like from your blogs and websites. Sorry!

Let’s smother this Wilders in our apologies. If we work hard enough, no one will be able to find his crap among all the noise we produce. And the world knows how we feel about Wilders and his opportunism.
WE’RE SORRY!"
http://www.mediamatic.net/article-33851-en.html

This rather proves the point of the movie, doesn't it?

You can 'yank' the video from one site, and it will appear on another site. That's the power of the people. The Internet belongs to the people.

It's an important video among other confrontative questions - the political cartoons were one, Theo Van Gogh's film was another. There will be violence and retribution by Islamists because they are still refusing to confront and examine their own ideology.

As I said, they've made two choices so far, both of them rejecting self-examination. The first is the fascist Al Qaeda choice. Let's all move back and pretend we're back in the 7th century. Unfortunately, to keep a population living way back in time, to 13 centuries ago, takes a LOT of energy, fear and force. No country can last long like that.

The other choice, is to attempt to change the West to 'Be like Us, We Islamists'. The West attempted a postmodern version of this; it's called multiculturalism, which states that 'every belief and behaviour is equal in value; none are better or worse. Beating your wife is equivalent to not beating your wife'.

This is not working; the West is emerging, slowly, from this drunken Liberalist stupor, and beginning to fight back.
And, it's becoming clear that the Islamic notion of multicultural is about 'we're all equal', but instead, that We are The Best, and You are nothing.

Me no dhimmi - glad you like Popper. Get the second volume as well. I'm also a fan of Hayek.
No, I don't think the West will go tribal; the population is too large for tribalism.

My concern is that the West will tend to the ease of socialism, which rejects a middle class and is instead made up of two classes: the workers who don't know, and the elite who are in gov't and who rule everyone. This is the Platonist form of govt, as you know. It's also the Liberal and NDP style. We are beer and popcorn; they know what's best for us.

Such a two class system immediately stops freedom. Dead in its tracks. That's because it rejects the concept that every person is capable of thinking, of reasoning. The Liberal/NDP/Platonist idea is that only the elites in govt (and academia) can think and reason.

But, if you can't reason, then you aren't free. Because freedom means the capacity and right to make choices. If you do have the capacity to choose, it means you can't think.

A middle class is made up of individuals. People who think. The Liberal/NDP/Platonist two class society denies a middle class. They don't want interfering 'thinking people'. They will govern.

And a lot of people prefer that type of nation, where the govt makes all the decisions, and we just mutter and get angry with them..but, we don't do anything. Because..it's all 'up to the govt'..to make things OK.

I think these films and cartoons are excellent, because they are showing Muslims that their texts and their words and their behaviour, are open to question. If they assert they are 'peaceful', then, how can they explain their texts and actions, both of which are violent?

Does anyone recall the splendid CPC ads of the 2006 election campaign? They simply showed high level Liberals, their words and their actions (I'm entitled to my entitlements)...and this raised questions..
Same thing with these videos and cartoons..

While the images of "Fitna" are appalling, they are on the same level as watching newsreels of the Jews during the Holocaust.

Even Himmler himself couldn't hold his stomach contents while visiting Auschwitz.

Which probably underscores the statement:

"I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people." Jeremiah 31:33

Nobody is under the illusion that watching butchery of humans is a pleasant experience.

The unwritten error that Fitna asserts is that all Muslims are blood thirsty in the same way that all Germans were blood thirsty mindless SS robots with ice in their veins.

Life is never that simple.

One could go ahead and quote many Old Testament/Torah passages in which Moabites, Hittites, etc. were laid waste. This does not make current day Orthodox Jews into a bunch of mindless warriors ready to lay waste to whoever crosses their path.

Alternately, one could point out that the first Gentile to convert to Christianity was Cornelius the Centurion who would not be averse to swordplay per the Acts of the Apostles.

Even one of the Apostles lopped off Malthus's ear prior to the crucifixion, but we don't see 2 billion Christians all becoming ear loppers in the same way that 1 billion Muslims are not all head choppers.

While there are extremists in any faith the percentage is obviously reasonably low, otherwise the casualty figures would be much higher, on the order of millions.

Most normal people are looking to have steady job, feed their family, educate their children, plan for retirement, enjoy their kids, etc.

Vincent Van Gogh was an ardent ear lopper, but that doesn't make all the Dutch looking for Jesus to restore their self-inflicted ear wounds.

While "Fitna" underscores the undeniable harm that a number of individuals who are fanatically motivated can do, it overreaches by suggesting a systemic problem is applicable to each and every Muslim.

As a Christian, I could put a similar set of quotes together from selected passages of Scripture and set off on a self-anointed "Crusade" to convert the heathen by the rule of the sword.

Cherry picking a few quotes from Islam also ignores those passages which focus on mercy.

In the same way one can cherry pick certain Christian passages and ignore those which focus on the love of neighbor.

That would be the method of the ideologue who has a political agenda to grind.

Thus one can make the statement that all Muslims adhere to the ideology of Islam; it