God help us.

Walking through south Rosedale the last few weeks, I’ve been surprised by the number of signs for CPC candidate Don Meredith, given the type of people who live in the area and the sheer amount of snow on the ground. I didn’t see my first Rae signs until yesterday (oh my eyes!).

Not that Rae is going to lose; the riding is huge and goes I think from Regent Park in the south-east to Yonge Street, but even so it was nice to see that some of the tony Rosedale set are voting CPC and making their intent known publicly.

That is indeed one of ET's best. I meant to comment but was a bit too busy.

Her desciption of the "medallion-bedecked grannies singing songs of peace" was note perfect for my neck of the woods too -- westside Vancouver close to UBC; the land of the $1.5 million cottage on a 33' lot.

Rae: No way will he be punished for his disastrous economic policies mostly because that class ET so aptly describes has no understanding of the subject. Moreoever, Ray can also say, "heh, look, I was NDP then, but look I've learned the error of my ways and have moved to Big Red (over from Little Red).

Brava ET (I learned "brava" from a scandalized fellow audience member while shouting Bravo at Cecilia Bartoli a few years ago). Blush.

'Bob Rae' - lol, lol, lol....

I am suspicious that the current Flaherty vs. McGuinty brouhaha is in reality the opening salvos of CPC vs. Bob Rae.
Nothing like attacking the fiscal plan of the current Libs in Ontario to get one re-thinking of the fiscal record of the Bob Rae.

Yes, unfortunately the man that ran Ontario into the ground is about to get the helm of the Official Opposition, and if we're really unlucky(or Ontarians are that obtuse)he may some day become PM.

What a disaster that will be.:-(

If the CPC doesn't use "the liberals want Rae-days to go national" they don't deserve to win.

Rae went after the unions and public sector workers in the second half of his term forcing the unions to take unpaid days off. Of course, that was after shovelling everything they'd ever want at them before he realized that budgeting does so matter.

By the end of his term, I doubt there was a single demographic group that didn't want him lynched.

Well said, ET. You could get a job as a seer since I think you are a page or two ahead of the Puffins but you have their 'game plan' down to a science! It must be embarrassing to be so predictable; then again, the Puffins really do not have any clue of the true meaning of the abstraction shame. As long as it can be covered up; it is all good, in the Puffin world. They have the msm as their ready broom.

The Puffins remind me of myself when I was a kid helping my Mom; I tried to save myself the bother of finding a dust pan by sweeping dirt piles from the floor under the rug. She always found me out and then she made me lug the rug outside and hang it on the clothes line so I could beat the dust out. It didn't work for me (I did not have a handy msm to cover up for me) and I quit after several failed attempts. Mom, however, was a real investigator; much to my dismay, she would periodically look under the rug for suspicious dirt piles and if it looked too dusty under a rug she fingered me (even if I was not guilty) and sent me out with the rug - based on my past actions. I would have been sooo grateful for a loyal cover-up gang; as I am sure the Puffin/Dipper outfit are; and yes! I would have paid !!!

Kate, I would like to re-post my rebuttal to ET's theory - a theory that I suspect the LP is to stupid/short-sighted to conceive.:

...It is an interesting theory - sort of like the neutron bomb play - they are trying to kill off SD without destroying any of the party structure.

There are two key impediments:

1. Iggy - the party is still split and Iggy is working just as hard if not harder than Rae to succeed SD.

2. The irrelevance of the LP in Que. Unless they think that the pop changes are sufficient that they think they can win with the urban vote in Que (15 seats?) and toronto and vancouver. (it is ironic that they may be the first federal party to turn its back on QUE) Doubtful, and twits like trudeau won't let them do it quietly.

And of course no one in the party has an answer to Rae's ontario legacy. With liberal Dalton working on meltdown #2 - the echoes of Rae's folly will become increasingly poigniant. As anyone who spend time talking to ontarions can attest, the memory of Rae has hardly faded at all.

And Rae's laughing it off will be about as effective as Ted making jokes that he no longer drinks and drives....

Peoples Man, style over comtent, utopia, misinformation, hoax propagation, foster controversy, promote discontent, ...

Is it a stretch to say the Media is the root of all evil ?

" .. skilfully swift in positioning Dion .. "

" .. framing him .. "

Sinister word use by Travers.

Got to hand it to the Media types -- they must lie awake at night.

But, thanks to the ET and the Kates of the world, millions now see the snow-job being exposed hourly.

If one of the reasons the Libs haven't been working harder to bring down the government is to help Bob Rae get into the HoC I think Bob is making a mistake.

Under circumstances where there might be a year or so before the next general election, then I'd say getting Bob in helps him because he has enough time to truly be the "incumbent" in the next general election.

However, if there's an election forced some time after Easter, as McCallum is now claiming, this could hurt Rae in one of two ways.

1. People anticipating a general election in the very near future may not be motivated to go out and vote in the by-election. If there's a low turn-out who knows what the election results might be. And if Rae lost the by-election it would be very difficult for him to run successfully in the GE with that bit of egg on his face.

2. People vote in decent numbers not anticipating a GE so soon after the by-election (based on the Liberal track record of abstention). If there's a GE very soon after the by-election they may be annoyed and not turn out to vote a second time in as many months. Rae could lose in this scenario again due to the low voter turn out.

If Rae has been the architech of the Liberal plan of abstention to wait to get him into the HoC, I think this could quite frankly back-fire against him personally. I think it would have been more strategic for him to be pushing for a GE before the by-elections. If he wins his seat but the Liberals perform poorly then he has a lot more time to carry out his coup from the inside. It would be poetic justice if he lost a GE right after a by-election win leaving Iggy to take the spotlight in the HoC.

And of course the LP lefties attempted the same thing when it percieved it had a lame duck in John Turner:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_Party_of_Canada_Rat_Pack

It is actually a three way dustup coming; Rae, Iggy and young Justin Trudeau. Someone with a real knowledge of the inner workings of the Liberal Party should also see how the festering Chretien/Martin thing is playing out down below decks as well........

Thucydides? (how is that pronounced?)

Travers "FRAMES" things like a goodfella.

DION is the professor with no clothes.

RAE is like a bad TV show in syndication. Can't get enough of the HoneyMooners? Gotta re-cycle a Dipper as a Libbie? Are the Libs in that bad shape....

Gord Tulk:
1) Iggy is no match for Rae as a politician. Any serious person in the Liberal back-rooms know this - particularly a guy named John Rae. Bob's the guy Power is backing.

2) Rae could turn around fortunes in Quebec by demagogueing on identity politics, and promising a new Liberal Party under himself, an outsider. Not sure if it will stick, but it's got a much better chance than Dion's strategy of home province self-immolation.

3) Rae's Ontario mess is not a problem. The media will cover for him, and in fact pin all of Ontario's problems on his successor, Mike Harris.

Bob Rae could prevent a Conservative majority. Stephane Dion will guarantee one.

Great analysis ET. How did Don Meredith do or did the rabble even allow him to speak?

Bob Rae went after the unions only after he gave them huge increases in salaries, in particular the Ontario Civil Service Opseu and Cupe. I'm sure there were more but I can only speak for the Company I worked for at the time a non profit funded by MCSS.
Not only that, his lackeys in the party Shelies Martel and Red Floyd actually intervened in a strike by bypassing their own Treasury Board going to a picket line and telling the union leader that their increases would be there shortly. Of course this was all behind the scenes. All this while telling management to hold the fort and stay the course (of not giving in).
When confronted in the House of course they evaded the issue and Big Boob himself hid out until the brouhaha died down. When he did show up he demonstrated his art of obfuscation. Bob Rae is and always will be a Socialist. Goes to show how far left the Liebs have gone.

flaggman:

With all due respect, I think Iggy is more capable as a politician than you assert plus he is backed by abour 1/2 of the party just because he is not bob Rae - see Thucydides comment re: the Martin/JC split.

2. such a move would enrage the trudeauites further dividing the party.

3.The press can try as they may but millions of Ontarions can bear witness to what happened - enough to weaken the LP in the 905 to the point that they would be swept throughout. (see some of the comments above)

First may I add my praise for ET's savvy analysis to that of others already posted---ET is one of our treasures!

Rae is a cardinal example of the Eastern Establishment at work---his connections (Power Corp etc.); his education (Upper Canada College, U of T, room-mate of Iggy's); the riding selected for him, and so on. And let me add his government experience, his flexible beliefs, his glibness
and his media connections.

The LPC is the Eastern Establishment as government. If Rae were to become Prime Minister the anger in Ontario arising from the Rae Days' time would be as nothing to the rage that would rise in the West. In Alberta there are thousands and thousands of ex-Ontarians who remember Rae Days with the same fervour as The Battle of the Boyne is remembered in Northern Ireland, or the Plains of Abraham in Quebec. Rae as Prime Minister would put this country irrevocably on the path to disintegration. It would truly be a tipping-point.

I have had official contact with Rae in the past. He was as cold, arrogant and condescending then as he appears still to be when the mask slips.

I think that the LPC and the backroom boys are under some time pressure. Kyoto 2. I believe that they will want to maneuver so that their guys will be at the table to negotiate the successor agreement.

Rick - "Bob Rae is and always will be a Socialist."

Yes Rick, a silk stocking socialist.

Or better yet as Barbara Amiel said of Rae many years ago - " Crypto-Communist!"

And yes, of course, the Canadian MSM as ET correctly points out, helping out by trashing and smearing Harper as corrupt.

Re: Rae's legacy in Ontario

Combine the shortness of collective memory, with Rae's cutting his connections with the NDP, and he's quite innocculated from his legacy. The only demographic with any lingering ill will towards Rae would be 40+ economic conservatives. That's not to say that it won't hurt him, but it is reality. He's a savvy guy, and uninformed average people will fall for him despite his past.

God help us indeed !

Rae was an absolute catastrophe for Ontario , and I can only imagine what he could do for Canada !

Rae is another traitor to the NDP who was bought by the Liberals,like Dosanjh. He is socialist through and through and will eventually move the Liberals much more to the left.

Rae is another traitor to the NDP who was bought by the Liberals,like Dosanjh. He is socialist through and through and will eventually move the Liberals much more to the left.

Actually there may be a benefit to Rae being the leader of the Liberal party. Rae's views are undoubtedly further left than Ignatieff , and if Dosanjh also stays , there is a significant possibility the Liberal party will move to the left , which may actually benefit the Conservatives.

I can thank Bob Rae for my fantastic wife if not for him I may never have meet her. She left Ontario during his rule, in order to find work, and found it here in BC. She hates him and what he did to her home province.

Flaggman,

I think you forget how much the unions hate him for his alleged treason. The teachers, public service, cops, health care workers... the list is long. They will not forget nor forgive.

Neither will the NDP. The CPC won't even have to do much. The left will do it for us.

".....they must lie awake at night."

In order to Lie to us all by day!

very well stated ET

I have said for years & on here many times of late, that the liberal of old is long gone. The Socialist have been slowly infiltrating the LPC for years, Why? Because they know that they can't form the government under the Dipper banner so their best chance is to infiltrate the LPC & slowly change the adgenda to their views, With the distant possibility of a merger. How many dippers do you see run provincialy as NDP & Turn around & run federaly as Liberal. I also believe that you may see somewhere in the future a new party formed that would be more left of center much like the liberal of old.
This would be good news for the conservatives in that they have divided & conquered & should form a Majority much like the 90's when the conservatives were divided.

"Rae is going to be The People's Man."

PLEEZE TO GEEVE ME BREAK!

Ah yes, Buffalo Bob Rae, Buffalo NY's business man of the year, for having single handedly raised the living standard of many New York residents.

The Librano$ are planning to sell Rae as "The People's Man"?

PLEEZE TO GEEVE ME BREAK!!!!

Boob Rae "the people's man"????

He's a Forest Hill Socialist who's intimately connected with Paul Desmarais' Powercorps (his brother's one of the head honchos there).

As a Librano, the only way he's "the people's man" is that he'll tax "the people" (aka us hardworking, law-abiding, never-able-to-keep-up drones) to the max and give away OUR money to all the homeless, anti-American, lib-left, peaceniks who were at the rally the other night.

How can Canadians be taken in by this BS?

"I think you forget how much the Unions hate him for his alleged Treason" - Warwick

You hit the Nail on the Head warwick, I think if Rae ever did become the LPC Leader the ads would be directed at Ontario With visual Remember Whens.
But what would the Unions do? How do they throw their support back to the NDP who they did not support in the last election as they do not support Layton, Could make for an Interesting scenario. Will the Unions give the Ok to vote for whoever.

eskimo. i agree. i have no words to express my anger at the stupid among us. does anyone want to do for themselves anymore? man canadians are stupid.

brynar. 60% of all canadians are socialists.

The unions will fall into line. What choice do they have? Remember, elections aren't about harbouring old grudges - they're about a choice between alternatives.

And remember that Bob's solution to rising health care costs and an aging society was to reduce the number of doctors allowed into Medical Schools.

Hey, guess what? Ontario has a doctor shortage.

Bob Rae's solution has denied millions of Ontarians a family doctor.

Make every day a Rae day!

I just posted this Under Readers tips
cbc.ca is reporting that the Liberals are meeting behind closed doors to Mull over whether to go to the Polls over the RESP.
It reports in the article that FM Flaherty say's that this could cost 900mill & could put the gov't in a deficit position.
The Liberals say it will only cost $700mill! We are talking a difference of 200 so are the Libs saying that if it goes over their projection then we are in a deficit. Remember the Gun Registry as the Liberals have a way with Mis-Quoting Numbers

once upon a time i was dealing with a union problem and solicited MP svend robinson's help...this was during rae's election as premier in ontario...i was suckholing and brownnosing him of course and told svend how THRILLED(yes..i confess ...yes i did camp it a titch) i was rae and the dippers won Ontario...
svend's response was left of lukewarm...HE didn't seem the least thrilled.
anyone know what happened here...?

Look, I'm no pundit and I only wrote from my 'fly on the wall' reactions. I tried to pretend I was an 'undecided' citizen..and..who would I like?

As I said, I was stunned by the turnout - the theatre was packed. It's possible, and I suspect that it is the case, that many are 'regulars' at all various political meetings. I supposed it's better than scrabble.

The Bob Rae camp was very well organized, with lots of YOUNG people, all scrubbed clean shining and eager.

Rae himself on stage; I got the sense that he was working to be 'one of the guys' when in actual fact, as an ex-premier, and part of the PowerCorp, Desmarais economic backroom gang of Canada, he is, hierarchically, light years in power and contacts away from the other candidates.

It was a very well organized meeting, with Anna Mc..whatever of City TV as moderator, specific time allotments for each speech, etc. If I were ordinary uncertain Jane Citizen, I might be drawn to Rae. For his urbane geniality, his presentation of himself as open to all opinions, even the ones opposing him. He's very much at ease on stage - as was the Green Party candidate.

I'm saying it's part of the New Liberal Strategy of inclusiveness. Include the anger. How?

Include the anger at the 'old corruption'. You do that by saying that the Conservatives are 'also corrupt. That defuses that faster than a torn balloon.

Include the anger at the deficit, by joking about it, as Rae did. And blaming Harris and the feds for all evils.

The Liberal agenda seems to be 'social justice' (god, that's a dumb phrase - what else is a society about, other than the benefits of its people?)..and 'sustainable economics (what does that mean?)..and..'green'. And - a big one added by Rae - 'affordable housing'. These are all the usual amorphous rhetoric, but, the public likes them.

I think Gord Tulk's comments on Quebec are accurate, but I suggest that the Liberals are going to focus on Montreal and leave the 'rural Quebec' to the CPC and Bloc.

I think they are going to focus Big Time on Cities, eg Vancouver, Toronto and Montreal, where the seats are, and where the voters are unionized, civil service, health services, education, etc..all govt dependent workers.

I think Dion will be left alone to play and talk to himself. I suggest Ignatieff will leave. There is absolutely no role for him. I think the BackRoom Boys have already made that decision.

Ontario? Some may remember, but the team around Bob Rae, young recent graduates, all in the work force of govt, finance, IT, health, education...they won't remember.

Money? With the MSM as their publicity assistants, that's a great savings right there.

The opponents to Rae will come primarily from the NDP.

As for signs in Rosedale, the LLL, the Leaside Lexus Lemmings, which is a wealthy, stable area of Toronto, with jobs in the civil service, health care, teachers - they are all Liberal followers and have Rae signs.

I think an election sooner rather than later is the answer, but the Liberals will now do anything to prevent an election. If the NDP have any smarts, they'll work with the CPC for one asap.

Otherwise, for the next year and a half, we'll see one new corruption claim every two weeks flung at the CPC. Ungrounded, totally invalid, but great publicity.

And, we'll see Rae as the Genial Uncle in the back, smiling, open to all points of view..commiserating with the poor, with the people who want guaranteed housing and income (not guaranteed jobs; guaranteed income)...and so on.

Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe Rae will be eaten alive by Dion and Ignatieff and spat back to Ontario.

My humble advice to Liberals.

In the upcoming byelections, it seems reasonable to follow the fine example of the Parliamentarians who represent you.

Just abstain!

As an Ontarian, I can vouch for the fact that Rae pissed-off more people at one time than any other politican in history. His swath was wide-everyone from the "rich" to the "poor" to the union stooges that got him elected. "Rae Days"
hurt everyone, including this family. And it was all so very unneccessary.
The Libs need Ontario to win federally. I personally don't think, with the exception of the Toronto crowd, he will ever ever gain the confidence of Ontarians again.

IMHO the private unions like the carmakers usually vote conservative as lefties like Sid Ryan always find out. If the CPC holds the line against pouring more money into the car companies even though they make a product that the public wont buy their vote may change.

The public unions especially CUPE, teachers and other government unions are mainly socialist as Lookout knows and will vote NDP/Liberal all the time. Especially to get the Lieberals back in power and get the gravy train running again. The ones who actually work for a living like the police, fire and EMS will support the CPC as they see the damage daily what socialism causes.

In order for there to be an election before the mandated Oct '09 date ALL THREE of the opposition partys would have to vote for dissolution.

There is no way that all three will feel their chances are good of increasing the number of seats they have all at the same time.

Both the NDs and the BQ if current polls are accurate would be decimated if an election were held.

Ipso facto no election.

No wonder there were a lot of young people at the rally for Bob Rae: They're the only ones with no memory of the mess Mr. Rae's political and economic ineptitude made of Ontario.

'Seeing as young people are notorious no-shows at the polls come election day, one can only hope that "the old folks" (I'm one) will make sure that Boob Rae does not win at the polls if he becomes the LPoC leader.

What is Liberal Citoyen DionRae's election strategy today?

""About an election, not this week," he said"

The LiberalMSM headline:

"Liberals say they have Harper where they want him"
(canwest)

Flaggman:

As many of the comments on this thread show anecdotally, there is a very good chance that enough of the Ontario voting populace remembers what Bob Rae IS that the LP would be decimated in that province were he at the helm. However that may not prevent the LP from making him leader - after all they put PM and SD (and John Turner)in place didn't they?

gord tulk, I hope you are right. But a lot of people weren't living in Ontario 15 years ago when Rae was in power (including myself).

There are a lot of immigrants, and Rae appeals to them. There are a lot of children who are now of voting age. So, memories of 15 years ago, aren't necessarily strong enough to prevent his role on the federal scene.

Take a look at the glowing Wikipedia biography of Rae. Problems are almost invisible.

I don't see what else the Liberals can do. Their problem is Dion. An election to get rid of him would lose them too many seats. So, what does one do? You sideline the bumbling leader as a 'kindly dork'...and focus on the Real Leader. And the Real Leader has to be presented as Genial, Jovial and Welcoming.

But you must also mudsling the CPC - that's vital.

I still say that Ignatieff will leave. There's absolutely no role for him - and with the PowerCorp, Chretien, Desmarais Gang behind Rae..they'll arrange an 'exit' for him.

All speculation...who knows.

The CPC has to set up an ongoing LIST of weekly accomplishments for the public.
And, a Ministry of Cities.

Let' see:
So far the MSM have ignored Rae calling Dion a nerd(quoting ET),
and they have ignored Mulcair's rampage in the HoC,
so I guess that to be fair they will ignore the cool stuff PMSH is doing this week, like dogsledding and attending the winter games.
Oh...CTV mentioned that PMSH was taunting Dion in the HoC.
Go figure.
ET ...CPC has set up a list of accomplishments on the web site.How does this info go 'mainstream'?

ET. I live in this riding, and have lived in Toronto as a voting adult for 25 years. I agree that Bob Rae should not be underestimated. I don't think that he is as hated as some people here suggest, or seem to want to believe.

Bob Rae has been sold very successfully as the "practical socialist" - someone who made the hard choice of going against his political base and doing the right thing for the province when it was faced with bankruptcy. He can be painted as the "man with a heart who can still be trusted to run things".

In many minds, his creation of the Rae Days is actually considered a plus, and the fact that it took near desperate financial straits for this to occur is attributed to the "bad economy" at the time, not to Rae's mismanagement.

I think one of the best ways to attack him would be over the mismanagement of Ontario health system, which began its accelerating decay under his watch, due to a number of flawed policies with regards to doctors and hospitals.

Also, I agree with you that the Conservatives need to improve their image in the cities. Writing off all those urban ridings for perpetuity just because they are not winnable now is a long term mistake. A Ministry of Cities would go a long way in that direction, even if it does nothing major. It would certainly be a way of pre-empting one possible line of attack that the Libs might use in a future election.

Rae as a prominent liberal will be a boon to the CPC, I've said it all along. Remember that a lot of people in Ontario still hate him.

Bob Rae is Maurice Strong's nephew. When Rae was premier of Ontario he took nepotism to new heights. Maurice Strong was given the keys to Ontarion Power and the nuclear industry. That must be very helpful now that Maurice Strong is the best friends of communist China.

And, Bob Rae's brother is John Rae - VP of PowerCorp - yup, also best friends with communist China along with Chretien and gosh even Paul Martin was "gifted" a shipping line by good old Uncle Mo.

So, Bob Rae will take his rightful place with the same cabal of elites who have picked the pockets of Canadians for about 40 years - every since Trudeau.

Seems about right. Then the media can go back into la la la land and get nice little jobs for their friends and family, ambassadorships, senate jobs - even GG!

Canadians are pretty stupid or easy to fool don't you think.

Bob Rae, the "Peoples man" as in the "Peoples" Republic of China? Gimme a break, he can't whitewash his record, aside from the Socialist Haven of Toronto, the land of brain free Liberal, with a smattering of Dipper, voting.

Anyone who thinks he can do any serious damage to Harper had better go off and try to smuggle dawn past a Rooster.

real conservative,

I don't live in Ontario so I may not have seen what you have seen.

Having said that Rae concerns me much more than Iggy. He's bright, articulate, and good off the cuff. His speech at the LPC convention was delivered sitting on a stool, like a friendly grade school teacher on the first day of classes. Stuff like this can take you a long way, particularly in our shallow, "People Magazine" culture.

Those who disagree should look south of the border right now.

In reference to the write up by the newspaper character: Actually the French citizen Dion does not really need conservatives to do anything at all, he can do it all by himself, that is only fair.

Having a hard time grasping this situation, Rae is a socialist that screwed up the finances of Ontario. How is it, that he is so popular with the Liberals? How is it that he is practically elected but for the formality? What is it with people in that riding? It must be the taste of power, irregardless of politics and certainly does not involve public good. That looks more like prostitution racket.

Lev: he's media savvy, sounds authoritative, and has a good sense of humour. His ideas are ridiculous, practically a parody of academic socialism - but that doesn't matter to Liberals. Style over substance on that side of the spectrum.

Lev, it doesn't have a lot to do with the people in the riding. The overwhelming majority of people who vote, do so on the basis of party affiliation, not the candidate. In close races the candidate matters. This is not the case here. Bob Rae will win of course, but frankly they could have put in anyone here, and been assured of victory.

Right now the Conservative brand is not relevant to the mostly low income residents of this riding. According to the 2001 census, >30% of the people who are eligible to vote here are non-english non-french speaking. Those people generally do not vote, but when they do, they vote Liberal or NDP.

The large gay population in this riding is not very likely to vote Conservatives, so scratch them. And they actually turn up for voting, so they are a significant block.

In the higher and very high income neighbourhoods there are much fewer people (private homes, so less people per area), so they have less impact on the outcome. This group may split between CPC and Lib, but until the "we hate the cities" aura that the CPC gives out is somehow dampened, they have no real reason to vote for the CPC.

Don Meredith is a good candidate for this riding, but it would not surprise me if he came in third after the Libs and NDP. A cynical observer might suggest that Conservative voters here are better off voting for the NDP, to further weaknen the Liberals and keep Bob Rae out of parliament, but I would have too much respect for a guy who puts himself on the line despite all odds, like Don Meredith, to do that.

real conservative: I only wish I sensed as much dislike for Rae in Ontario as I sense for Harris.(unwarranted IMO)
And I have never heard of union dissatisfaction with Rae...it is primarily directed at Harris.
God help us indeed.

Do you suppose the ppl in toronto are stupid enough to put this ndp hack into parliment after what he did to ontario when he was there preimer.

Ralph...(I don't know how far east you are)

Yes...

I live in moncton new brunswick but was there in toronto when rea screwed it up lol

SCREW THE GREENS tell them to GET A LIFE and stop acting like jerks

I live in this riding as well. And very much understand ET's reference to the moonbat activists and kool-aid drinking grannies.

However, I think Rae isn't going to be as effective a leader as the Liberals are hoping. He is afterall, a socialist and former leader of the NDP. The Liberals need to tilt right and all he's going to do is take them further left. All helped along by the CPC, comfortably ensconced in the centre.

Whether or whether not the people of Ontario remember the disaster that was Rae hardly matters, they will. The facts are not going away. From what I recall, the weasel doubled the deficit to $96 billion and S&P, amongst others, significantly dropped Ontarios credit rating. His government and its fiscal mismanagement was the worst that Ontario ever experienced. He was hated.

Whether he attempts to laugh it off or not, he will be hammered on the facts about his brutal leadership. He is a socialist through and through and cannot be trusted. Canadians know this about the NDP.

It's ironic how the Liberals were accusing the NDP of being fiscal imbeciles in Parliament a week ago, when they have one of the worst of them vying for leadership of their own party. What a bunch of strategic wankers.

Well said miss daisy

I disagree, irwin daisy.

You say that Ontarians will/will not remember the Rae deficit. I'm saying that it's utterly irrelevant to them now. Remember, this was FIFTEEN years ago.

People who were 15 years old, below voting age, are now in their 30s, starting their own lives etc.
There are immigrants to this province who weren't here 15 years ago.
THEY WON'T KNOW OR CARE.

Rae is extremely smooth; he's a practiced hand at non-answers. I heard him answering 'why won't the Liberals go to an election if they don't like the CPC policies'....and his answer was 'it's all about context'. But he wouldn't explain CONTEXT.

Context is that the Liberals would get rid of Dion in an election but the major thing they'd get rid of is SEATS. They can't afford that; they can afford to ignore Dion and let him dribble away and talk to himself in his outdoor sandbox.
INSIDE the House - it will be Rae.

Genial, welcoming, open-arms, smiling, joking, accepting all views and all people. It will be Rae.

That's what will appeal to the under-40 crowd in Ontario, as they move into their government funded jobs: in education, health care, civil service and so on. All of these are BIG employers in Ontario - and they are therefore in favour of BIG and money-friendly govt. That's the Liberals.

And balkanized multicultural Toronto knows that the funding for their special schools, their community centres, their special newspapers and events - that's Liberal money. For their votes.

Ignatieff will leave; he's not The Chosen Boy. But the Desmarais, PowerCorp Boy - is Rae.

A BC boy, I used to travel to T.O. for business. The 401 was practically devoid of cars in the dying days of Rae's Ontario. I came back several years later during Harris's rule and the 401 was packed. Bumper to bumper at 10mph.

Ya, Rae's socialist policies trashed Ontario. Yet the hatred for Harris eclipsed Rae in my not so humble opinion. How to explain that? Ontario's voters are distinctly socialist....... and economically dumb.

Rae's disastrous economic leadership will be overlooked I venture. Yes, it will be an issue..... but a small one overwhelmed by the voter's desire for, ahem.... social justice. I am sure that the average voter just thinks that socialism will work if the dials just get set right. They know that Rae didn't twist the dials properly last time out, but there belief in the concept of socialism will trump its past disaster. Why the idiocy of socialism never goes away. As it should.

Rae will win the leadership of the Libs. He will win the country too, because we live in a socialist swamp.

The only hope I have is that an election is called before they dump Dion. Prissy boy Dion on the stump. Rae on the stump, and the MSM will turn themselves inside out to get him elected.

Yuck.

Depends on the economy, doesn't it?