"....and a magical forest in which to ride his new beast."

Great line, and green at the same time.

*
Just watched CTV's Mike Duffy on their Ottawa affiliate CJOH...
giving his take on the brouhaha that will, no doubt, come to
be known as CADSCAM.

*

It was my understanding Mr. Cadman was also promised a partridge in a pear tree.

In Mrs. Cadman's defense, its possible Mr. Cadman did say things like that. They save the really -good- drugs for end stage cancer patients, because they need 'em.

Are Liberals really this dumb, or is Stephanie Dion angling for a sympathy vote?

Cure the troll chorus...

Kate please don't forget. PMSH can part the seas for unicorns as well.

Re: “Harper is reported to have offered Cadman a unicorn, and a magical forest in which to ride his new beast.”

Let’s be careful out there.

Saskatchewan Ministry of Environment
2007 Hunters' & Trappers' Guide
Pg. 6 - if a hunter accidentally kills a troll by causing it’s head explode then the hunter shall immediately field dress the troll, then call the local conservation officer to report it.

'n'they taste just like chicken, there's no limit and the season opens in the morning!!!

I have no personal knowledge of what may / may have not been offered to Chuck Cadman.

I knew Chuck. I even organized meetings where he spoke. Perhaps he even considered me a friend. He got into politics after his son was murdered. He was one of people whom I most greatly respected. While I disagree with the way he voted to support the Martin government, perhaps now I understand more of why he did so. It was said that he had a majority of responses from his riding requesting that he do so. Had he been offered any inducements, that would not have sat well with him. Chuck was straight up. He is sorely missed. I am proud to have known him.

It would not be at all unusual for the party to want to know how he might vote. That's simply good strategy. Thus a meeting would be normal.

*** The two un-named party officials that spoke with him regarding his vote should come forward ***

If the party officials crossed the line by offering inducements, then they need to be held accountable.

I find it utterly implausible that Mr. Harper would condone anything illegal. I also KNOW that Chuck was a man of his word and if he said something happened, then personally I believe him.

Small potatoes compared to the Liberal scandals, but very troubling...

R.I.P. Chuck. I miss you.

At the time of the Cadman vote I suggested that Cadman voted the way he did in order to prolong parliament because he did not want to fight another election.

Now it turns out I was right as evidenced by Duffys comments.

Duffy goes on to say:
Mike Duffy: “Can I share something with you, which I haven’t shared publicly until now? … And that is in private conversations with me, Chuck Cadman told me, that there was no way he was going to vote against the Martin government, because he was concerned of the potential impact it might have on the insurance settlement for his wife Dona. In other words: if he died while a sitting MP, Chuck told me, ‘that would double or virtually double the payout to his widow’ and he didn’t ‘dare take a risk forcing an election’, even if he was confident of being elected, for fear of some legal hassle involving an insurance payout"

Yet in an exerpt from his book Cadman supposedly says the following;

"He didn't tell Dona how he'd vote – in fact, he wasn't sure himself, he said, until about half an hour beforehand. But after he was told about the poll's results, Dona knew in her heart he'd vote in line with the opinion of his constituents"
(http://www.thestar.com/comment/article/307953)

So to me this point out two things.
First of all Cadman put his own personal agenda ahead of that of his country, his parliament and his party. He was voting in his own self interest. Perhaps this makes him a "typical politician" but it also points out to me that he was not the unselfish person he was made out to be.

Secondly,what I gather from the two quotes above is that apparently Chuck Cadman lied to his wife, lied to his family and lied to the Canadian public.

Horny Toad

Horny Toad:

Come off it! When a poll of his riding, (possibly) personal self interest and (possibly) unhappiness about a questionable offer all point one to vote in the same direction, then there is no conflict. He simply had three things saying vote that way and none of consequence saying vote the other.

Nice to see so much jocularity on the Titanic...

Jocular, Lavrentiy, because until Dion girds his loins this is all a tempest in a teapot.

CPC are ready, NDP are ready, Bloc is ready, Greens . . . who cares.

Libs, umm, not so ready.

Cheers,
lance

** Meanwhile, the Globe and Mail is sending its crack team to investigate the obviously legitimate concerns of Conservative unicorn production. Stay tuned. **

Oooops; . . three years too late. = TG

here I thought that Kate's post wuz ligit, until I read "Meanwhile, the Globe and Mail is sending its crack team to investigate the obviously legitimate concerns of Conservative unicorn production. Stay tuned.", and I know well that any CRACK team the Gloob and Mal has could only be used to investigate prostitutes or drugs!!!

Hi Kate; you are have some great posts here. I really think that PMSH and his Conservative party are making an end run again. It amazes me the the Liberals, NDP, GP and Bloc are really figuring that the Canadians are going to forget about how much Cretian and Martin stole, minipulated the oppistion when in power.

It is like calling the kettle "black". These parties in the above mentioned in CAPS have stole from the Canadian taxpayers long enough.

PMSH and his party have tabled laws, taxs, incentives that are actually are doing things for the average working Canadian. Instead of catering to the few in minority that are holding out thier hands and whining for special rights and more money.

It is going to take many years of "what they call the far right thinkers to right the way politics, law, social groups and whiners", to actually make head way in the wide world of supposable, "the popular thing for the day, the incentive of looking after the populas from CRIB TO DEATH THERIORS".

We are facing an election in Alberta on 2008 03 03, I have voted for the conservitives because there is really no choice yet of any great oppisition party on the side yet. Thier is a new party called the Wildrose Alliance that is making headway. I am going to be watching this party for the next 4 years to see what they make of themselves. Alberta is facing the same thing that Saskatchewan went thru with the NDP. It is time for a change from 45 years of rule from the conservative ideals. I am sure hoping that Stelmac is not a fence straddler like Getty was. Merle Underwood.

Iberia,

** jocularity on the Titanic... **

You mean the Mercer skit on CalgaryGrit?

http://www.calgarygrit.blogspot.com/

Yes, I agree.

BTW, those new *Young Liberals* ads seem like a backfire eh?

That*s a classic set of wheels. Why change perfection? = TG

Was this a white or black unicorn???....................come on Volik jump in and finish the story. He he

For what it's worth I'd say a Liberal unicorn with hopes of becoming the next US president?

As It Happens has a great radio interview with Tom Zytaruk

http://www.cbc.ca/mrl3/8752/asithappens/20080228-aih-1.wmv

I wonder if he called his mom after he left the interview...

More over at the Broom....

mr. cadman is dead. i recall making an observation that while ill he was making some unusual decisions. keeping a corrupt government in power for personal gain, is that honorable?

by the way, the people of his riding did not vote liberal did they?

Anyone for The Irish Rovers?

Wasn't Belinda Stronach bribed by the Liberal Party on the eve of a confidence vote?

Do I care about Mulroney and Schreiber (sp?)and their exchange of $300,000? No!

Do I care about the still missing of millions of dollars of Canadian taxpayers money that lined the pockets of Liberals? YES!

Enough of this charade emanating from the Liberal Party - they need to be punished at the polls!

What about the real bribe. Anybody remember Belinda? Croseed the floor and got a cabinet post? Thats how the grits stayed in power.

Leading off with the accusation was Dion, garbling off in his marble mouthed English followed by all the other hungry, adoring Liberal fans of Cadman standing to accuse. A spectacle like no other.

Without a doubt this is about as juvenile and low as the Liberals can go. They've gone to the grave to construct a scandal and help an obscure author launch a book. If this is the kind of gotcha politics Liberals want to play we should all have a chance to put their arses right out of Parliament and fast.

"Opposition MPs trying to understand how the Conservatives planned to compensate Chuck Cadman" Globe and Mail

Trying to understand? If they're alleging scandal, aren't they supposed to know?

When Cadman voted to support the Liberals, I was very disappointed in his decision.

Now I find out part of his motivation was that he wanted to protect his MP life insurance plan.

I don't necessarily believe that that was the only factor in his decision on how to vote (but based on Mike Duffy's comments it could have been a key motivator).

And if it were, I for one am OK with it. Who can deny a man putting his family first?

The latest poop on this magical scandal is that the Liberals now claim Harper Bribed Levant to give up his parliamentary seat???...

... and we also see that heavily edited copies of the Harper interview tape are being hawked for $500 a pop by the Cadman book's author...I detect the dark stench of mendacity

No evidence. He said, she said, she said, he said, etc.

Cadman never said anything about a million bucks, nor a life insurance policy, which is impossible to get for terminal illness patients.

The alleged "smoking gun" tape? Pleeeeze! Produced by a guy hawking a book and selling the scratchy snippet of a larger tape? Which he hasn't given to the police? Why after all these years, not going to the police? I saw transcripts of it, btw, and see nothing probative, other than something to excite Liberals, who are living in a glass house wrt tapes, if we recall the Gurman Grewal tape proving that the Liberals tried to bribe Grewal to switch sides! The RCMP concluded it wasn't doctored, so it's proof!

This tape the author's selling to the MSM? Let him turn over the whole original, unmolested, to the RCMP, for forensic analysis.

Let the two Cadman women be grilled with a polygraph and fully investigated for any hint of an anti-Conservative conspiracy (the whole thing with Mrs. Cadman stinks... why wait so long to say anything, and then not to the police, but rather as a Conservative candidate, at a time when the Liberals are desperate like never, ever before?

This is intriguing. And the spotlight must also swing onto those making the accusations.

I'd hope Harper/the Conservatives also expel Mrs. Cadman for breaking party rules against hurting the party by saying stuff that would hurt it... and sue the Cadmans for defamation. Let the Cadmans prove their accusations. Or not.

Why didn't they all go to the police with this information? Why go to the MSM? Why NOW?

This stinks! Then again, politics is corrupting. No one is incorruptible, no one.

Go to the police, Mrs. Cadman and the guy selling the book and the scratchy audiotape snippet.

The Liberals,having been charged and convicted as a corrupt organization, by a judge, in a court of law; have no choice but to do everything in their(and their media's power) to make the Conservatives look as corrupt as they.

The question is: Just how corrupt are the Liberals? Very,very in my opinion.

I believe Mr. Harper should appoint a special prosecutor to investigate any and all malfeasance in Ottawa over the last decade or two. Maybe a Supreme Court Justice for Shawinigate, one for HRDC, one for Technology Canada, one for the Gun Registery and so on.

Surely the Conservatives can bribe the NDP or Bloc, and give the Liberals some court time to keep them busy.

I can't understand why the Conservatives do not pursue the Liberals over this.

Interesting that the MSM appears to be publishing misleading headlines again about the Conservatives.

The headlines are sensationalistic, but reading the stories is a huge disappointment. "Smoking gun"? What a laugh!

Maybe now is the time to haul the Liberal skeletons out of the closets all over the place.

And find out about the nine billion missing dollars in the secret "foundations".

And investigate Shawinigate.

And investigate PAul Martin's ties which place him in apparent conflict of interest, which I helped expose on my blog a while back but which was hugely ignored. I'm astonished that that stuff wrt CSL and all the other players Martin owed, plus the whole thing tied into an appointee wrt the ADSCAM thing.

I can provide the post(s) if requested, but I'm not holding my breath, as it appears that people only want to go after the Tories and protect the Liberals.

Thank, you.

Thank you very much.

I'll be here all week, and remember to try the veal (er or baked unicorn).

GOOD GAWD.

I'd like to see Stephane Dion in a real fight.

He has to gird up his loins for these scandalous skirmishes, puffing out his chest as though he's really accomplished something by the Librano$’ never-ending, trumped-up allegations against PMSH and his government.

’The very definition of "little." In every way.

Far from hitting the mark, in trying to take the CPC government down, the Librano$ are showing utter contempt for our Parliamentary Democracy and for the poor, beleaguered Canadian electorate.

The Librano$ are swamp dwellers and would like to drag the rest of us into the sludge.

NO THANKS.

I have a few questions; why is Dona running as a Conservative? If the party had offended Chuck and herself as deeply as she says, why would she have anything to do with it? Why are we hearing about this now? Why didn't Dona and her family torpedo the Conservatives during the election?
Smells like unicorn poop to me.

With no disrespect to the Deceased
A few questions come to mind, all that have spoke on the issue via the media have said that mr. cadman was a very honourable man & listening to those that knew him well. But something that troubles me is that if he was so Honourable then Why did he not Report the Alledged incident to Elections Canada & the Speaker of the House. He knew it was just a matter of time for himself, Would he not want to report this in his Dying Days if he was so honourable. Secondly his family is telling us that he said this on his death bed, Was he pumped with pain killers coherant or confused & incoherant, I would think that he would be telling his family that he loved them in that brief time that he had left. Anyone that has been with a loved one at their death bed Knows what it is like. Mrs Cadam is a canidate for the Conservatives, She shows no remorse in making these allegations Would you not approach the Leader of the party & inform him of the books release & whats in it. When you found out would you not report it then, What are the finacial consequences.And finaly Very Very strange that the Book & this issue is coming out at the same time, With a FootNote by Paul Martin(Who rec'd an advanced copy)Why would their also Not be a Footnote by the leader of the Party that he once belonged to?
Their are too, too many stange things in this & yes the RCMP & Forensic Accountants should be brought in to examine everything, Phone calls, bank accounts & of course the $500 tape, These are very serious allegations.

If you replaced Stephen Harper with Jean Chretien or Paul Martin in this story, you would all be singing a different tune. But it's OK. I know that you all have one set of rules for your guys and another for your "enemies."

"I have a few questions; why is Dona running as a Conservative?"

Paul Martin broke his word to a dying Chuck Cadman who, in return for his vote, was promised, or influenced some might say, that the Liberals would pass crime legislation.

The Liberals eventually broke their word to Chuck, of course, like they did on the deal with Buzz Hargrove and the NDP, and they paid the price by losing power.

Speaking of Chucks, I am pleasantly surprised to see the tough SOB Chuck Strahl doing so well. I can only take inspiration from Solzenitzen, who, after spending 8 years in a gulag, developed serious cancer. That was over 50 years ago. Hell of a story.

Something is bothering me about the whole Cadman affair.

1. Paul Martin writes the forward to the book...Did he in fact help the author write it?

2. Martin probably thought the election was going to happen in spring 2008...Was he planning for this book to come out during an election campaign in order to cause the Conservatives to lose?

3. As Donna Cadman says her husband was really angry about the offer...Then why run for the Conservatives AT ALL?
Was it her intention to villify the Conservatives during the campaign by agreeing with the premise of the book?
Was it her intention to help bring the Conservatives down?

4. Dion has been itching to go to the polls...even though their numbers are down...why?
Did Martin and he know that this explosive book was coming out and they wanted to time it for the election?
I think Martin and Dion were colluding...

The only problem is some in the Liberal caucus were dead set against going into an election....thus thwarting the Dion/Martin plan.

Plan B... get the book out now.

Something sounds REALLY fishy to me.

But what do I know...

I'm only a 61 year old mother and grandmother.

just shows how desperate the Liberals are to get their collapse on the Budget and the Senate's approval of the Crime Bill off the front pages.

The folded like a cheap suit and Steffi has an internal revolt happening but voila, a "better" story.

Is this all the Lieberals can think to do? Constantly trying to dig dirt but not having a whit of sense of maybe governing this country?Is this what "opposition" means? I thought it mean't that they were to oppose legislation not trying to tear each other to shreds. Now they have pulled poor Chuck Cadman from his grave to parade around the commons floor. They should be so totally ashamed of themselves.
People get a grip, this is a "book" written by an author whom has a vested interest in getting his book sold. This is a supposed quote from a man who was on hallucinatory drugs. This is a "he said, she said" incident that should never have gained the prominence it has. If people would use their brains they would know that an insurance policy of one million on a dying man is an impossibility.
All you Lieberals out there should be hiding in shame that you have dragged a dead mans name through the mud for political gain. You should be asking where the 40 million is that your team stole from the taxpayers.
The Lieberals will go to all ends to try to cover their puffin doodoo with whatever they can find, even a dead mans reputation is not safe from them.

Too bad the F*$%^&g G&M wasn't sending "crack teams" to investigate those malfeasant Liberal bastards that governed Canada and fed their Quebec cohorts with stolen tax dollars.

MSM the Liberal enablers.

Let's also recall the smooth ride martin got with
getting Stronach to turncoat.

cbc, National Newswatch-"Daughter Urges Dona Cadman to Run as an Independent"

"The Prime Minister supports Dona Cadam 100% & Dona Cadam Supports the Prime Minister 100%"
Bill Zemianski-Campaign Manager for Cadam told CBC News Friday.

Ya wanna Bet that Has Changed!

Canadian Politics

Liberals...juveniles running amuck in Ottawa... Keeping everything spinning...
then everyone is too dizzy to know what is coming down.

Conservatives...trying to run a reasonable mandate in the Demented Dominion

Peter D: "If you replaced Stephen Harper with Jean Chretien or Paul Martin in this story, you would all be singing a different tune."

ARE YOU KIDDING?

If you replaced Stephen Harper with Jean Chretien or Paul Martin in this story, the MSM would barely have breathed a word about it, and the Canadian public would probably have never heard about Chuck...Who?

OR, if the MSM did feature it as a story, they would somehow implicate PMSH and his Party.

Wake up, Peter. Shake a leg. Open your eyes. The real story here is the collusion of the Librano$ and the MSM to run with a fabricated story as though it was factual.

Go to the back of the line.

Whatever perceived honour Cadman had, thanks to his wife, it will all be gone. He now exposed as a selfish little man.

Joe Molnar..."Too bad the F*$%^&g G&M wasn't sending "crack teams" to investigate those malfeasant Liberal bastards that governed Canada and fed their Quebec cohorts with stolen tax dollars."

Question: who broke the adscam story?

Answer: The Globe and Mail. See, moron, they sent out investigative reporters to investigate the Liberals and their Quebec cohorts. They uncovered stolen tax dollars.

Why are you guys so willfully stupid? I know you WANT to hate the media and the Liberals, but does it make any sense to make up history, and then hate the events that happened in your little make-believe fairy land?

Oh, and the Harper apologists on the Cadman affair are looking mighty, mighty pathetic on this one. You can twist yourselves into pretzels on the internet and try to laugh and shrug this off, but you know, deep down, that Harper's no different than any Liberal. Hell, we've known that since he swore in floor crosser David Emerson and appointed a backroom Conservative hack to the Senate - on day one!

had it been the other way the headline at CBCpravda would have been.

"Cadman supports Harper Regime,maintains his double insurance payout as sitting MP"

and in small print at the bottom , other news - Cadmans crime bill passes.

years later the revised CPC crimebill is crawling its way through the senate, the libs screwed him out of the promise and he collected his doubled insurance payment as a sitting MP, sitting on a broken promise. cash for nothing.

like a rock hardly. his motives were personal and apparently the schist.

Power politics and public perception; will this "stuff" stick to the electorate wall? Should make for an interesting spring. He said, she said, she said, he said..., ugh.
We need a way to dispense with this kind of crap as quickly as possible, i.e. try to remove most of the political grandstanding. Is an RCMP investigation the way or some independent (good luck with that one) investigator?

I see the Conservative response is to smear Chuck Cadman, his widow and family.

Hmm. Tread carefully, my dear Conservative friends. I know SDA gets off on besmirching the dead, but you might find that this campaign of speaking ill of the dead is a little too soon for most people.

Ghouls.

The Ethics Committee is rumoured to be very interested in this latest Conservative corruption. Allegations are circling Parliament Hill that the conservatives have buried the facts,but the committee will dig deep to find the truth.

Has the CBC hired anybody to investigate the authenticity of the latest tape? Are they in the process of doing so? I guess they feel it's not their job to question the tape's content for context. It's like with Schreiber: It doesn't matter how unsavory he is, if his target is a conservative, CBC bestows INSTANT credibility on the man.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2005/06/02/dosanjh-tapes050602.html

The author selling the tape says that it's in its entirety. Apparetly Harper doesn't say Hi or Bye. You pick up the phone and he's already in the middle of a conversation.

Why would Dona Cadman go to work for a Party that had so enraged and insulted her dying husband with an alleged million dollar insurance bribe? Was she a willing dupe of Paul Martin and Tom Zytaruk? It's a pretty ridiculous position to be in to be running for a political Party that you are defaming at the same time. Either she's out for revenge or just not very smart. Or she has gotten herself into an unfortunate position that she can't get out of. Funny that she didn't want to go on camera with her statements to CTV.

Of course, the CBC is also in on the smearing (as usual). As the CBC itself reported, "While agreeing that the CBC needs stable, multi-year funding, Conservative members also backed away from recommendations for specific increase amounts detailed in the report." Looks like the typical CBC immune response to a threat.

"Come off it! When a poll of his riding, (possibly) personal self interest and (possibly) unhappiness about a questionable offer all point one to vote in the same direction, then there is no conflict. He simply had three things saying vote that way and none of consequence saying vote the other"

The fact of the matter is he voted in his own self interest yet told the canadian public a lie(in a TV interview) and he told his wife and family a lie( according to his book that you want us al to beleive). You can't have it both wayas. I realize, that as a lieberal you think you can, but you can't.

Horny Toad

I really wondered at the time why Mr. Cadman propped up The liberals, they were the people that would not do anything to stiffen the penaltys for the type of thugs that murdered his son. This was the reason he entered politics in the first place. It is not at all remarable that he would want to provide for his family as best he could, and if passing away as a sitting M P doubled his insurance well so be it.His statement to Duffy is illumanating. As for "million dollar" policies for terminal people, that is simply impossible, and no matter how loudly Dion bleats that in garbled english, it will only be believed by the same people that await the "great punkin".

Just wondering if maybe there are some 'developments' behind the scenes that are in the Cons.favor.Just watched the news on cbc,and not one word thru the half hr.on Cadscam.If this was so devastating and true,would not the cbc be stuck on every minute detail, interviews with anyone that would be negative towards the Cons? Methinks something stinks,and watching the 'author' of said book,he is not very convincing at all.Talk about a promo book tour!

Next thing we'll hear is that the Liberals bribed a dim-witted former Tory with a high profile cabinet position to cross the floor to keep the Fiberals alive ... wait a minute!

Posted by: JohnnyRingo re: "Harper's no different than any Liberal"

Sorry Johnny, I've went along with some of your comments in the past, but not this. I don't think Harper is above some of the political shenanigans Liberals do as a matter of course, but the the way he's running things now is fundamentally different - from the way he deals with the media, to the way he works with lobbyists.

The biggest criticism of Harper that sticks is that he's partisan, and that it can get the better of him. I think it's understandable given the underhanded old-school politics the Liberals continue to practice. Disgusting. I don't consider myself right wing (I'm definitely left of many who post here), and I've even agreed with some of your positions. But I'll fight these Liberals (especially Ralph Goodale).

Only these Liberals could wait until someone's dead to ascribe words to him contrary to those he said on this very issue ON CAMERA, and call those pointing out he said them (on camera), effectively, liars. Then accuse Harper of calling Cadman's widow and daughter liars. Well excuse me, either Cadman lied, on camera, when asked a direct question on this issue, or his wife/daughter are lying (or mistaken, to be kinder).

The Liberals are creating this whole controversy out of nothing, first with the leak, and now by manipulating the widow/daughter. If that's the best they have to offer Canadians, then I hope they die at the polls. Unfortunately, there's no shortage of idiots out there (on either side I might add). The difference is - the Liberals pander to them.

So, as for your assertion Harper's just like the Liberals, I disagree, but I appreciate your implication this is just the kind of thing the Liberals would do.

No smear of Chuck Cadman.

More like clearing Cadman and loose talk like he deserves a Million$ insurance policy or gifts of gold plated unicorns or what ever.

No offer is real unless it is written and agreed to. Where is the document? Where is the impossible insurance application.

Nowhere. So much for what Chuck deserved. but was never delivered. = TG

The stench in Ottawa and Quebec was so bad that not even the G&M could any longer turn a blind eye to the corruption.

Giving G&M credit for breaking the Liberal corruption story is like taking credit for a birthing,it was going to come out one way or another, sooner or later.

Pimping and Chest beating for the G&M and other MSM after a decade of wilful blindness to Liberal corruption doesn't command any respect, even from a moron.

FOX News ( unavailable to Canada) would have kicked their a**es years before any Canadian MSM ever decided enough was enough.

And what about the Liberals politicization of the RCMP, wasn't there an unlold story there as well for years?

I reiterate, Canadian MSM G&M included were enablers of the corruption of Liberal government malfeasance for a decade or more.

Period!

Pay close attention where MSM bias lies in the Cadman frenzy.

I think the Cadman's family should be teated with respect by the CPC until the situation is either straightened out or fades away. It is entirely possible that it is a misunderstanding between what was actually discussed between Mr.Cadman and the CPC, what he told his family, the way they interpreted it and the way the author framed the situation in the book.

The more likely culprits to look at are less than ethical book marketing, Liberal dirty tricks and an unfriendly MSM.

Low brow politics, juvenile smear job by the all too willing Liberal jackasses, including the "leader" Dionski who asked the lead accusatory question.

It staring to look like a collaboration from the beginning. One doesn't just happen to have an amateur taping of Harper ready for book launching time.
It's not the village dump or Limburger cheese we're smelling. Try connecting the dots.

This story simply infuriates me. It seems that politicians of all stripes conspire with the media to chase phantoms that have nothing to do with the real issues of government. Is this really what government has become? We are taxed to death, have immense social problems, an underfunded military, a criminal justice system that hasn't worked for years and the potential for some significant economic difficulty in the near future and the media is pursuing this "he says-she says" nonsense as though it will have a significant impact on how the country works. My God, I'm ashamed to be a Canadian.

Joe Molnar says

"FOX News ( unavailable to Canada)"

It is, you just have to pay an extra 2 bucks for it. And it is well worth the 2 dollars.

Stand Your Ground has a few good questions re the Cadman affair.

I believe a man - any man - could make a decision that would benefit his family in such a circumstance. After thoughtful consideration, he most likely concluded that it was only a matter of time for Martin and the LIEberals to self-implode.
That he would make such a revelation on his death bed defies all reasoning, though. Drugs do weird things to the mind, but to believe that he formulated that particular accusation as he was dying does require a mind that can believe not only in unicorns, but the tooth fairy and 'the little people'.
Mr. Cadman was an honourable man who served his country well. Revealing this at such a late stage could make even the most generous a bit skeptical. The family are doing no justice to the memory of their loved one. May he RIP.

I'm following this closely. I still haven't read anything in depth yet, but have picked up snippets and questions.

1. From an interview snippet I heard, the book's author doesn't have any clear idea of what happened, he just wrote it in.

2. I have heard references of "bad blood" - from the Cadman clan no less.

3. Mrs. Cadman is running for the conservative party!!! (I expect the Conservative party will soon have her running alright.)

4. Apparently, Cadman told Mike Duffey in private that he voted for the Liberals so he might die while the government was still in power so his wife could get his pension. I need more info on that.

5. Paul Martin, no less, wrote the introduction to this book.

6. The Cadman clan claims are only hearsay.

7. Was that sound bite tape edited or complete?

8. Why did Harper talk to the author?

9. Does anyone know whether the Cadmans received his pension/insurance. I heard his dauughter claim that he told her on his death bed that they would receive insurance.

So, what's going on?

a) A liberal covert action?

b) A Cadman clan attack, in response to something that did or did not happen.

c) An internal conservative party attack?

d) Just a publishing stunt.

7. Cadman himself denied any offers.

On one hand how could Cadman have admitted to Mike Duffy that his Commons vote would be influenced by his MP's insurance plan and then on the other hand (to his wife and daughter) express disgust at the CPC's alleged (and impossible) "insurance bribe".

Unfortunately Cadman is not around to comment on this observation and there is too much of an inconsistency in his actions. Was he on painkillers or some other medication that could have impaired his judgement at this time?

On this thread back at the 6:56 AM mark Shere Kahn provides a link to CBC's As It Happens interview of the book's author...the man comes across as a clear and utter doofus!

I don't think Donna Cadman is lying. I think she misremembers

How about a review of the facts?

As a sitting MP, Cadman's term life insurance policy was worth $1 million.

Upon dissilution of the house, the value of the policy would only be worth $500,000. Cadman's family would have been guaranteed half-a-mil regardless if he'd won re-election or not.

Cadman was in a position where if he brought down the government of the day, his family would be out a half-mil. So, good for him for looking after the interests of his family.

There is no way the Conservative Party or any other party could have purchased a life insurance policy for a person with an existing condition.

So, let's get away from the facts for a while and ask some questions.

If Cadman had voted against the sitting government of the day, how would the half-mil shortfall to his family been covered?

PM Harper, in his taped interview with the book's author, clearly told the envoys to Cadman that offering Cadman anyt offer would likely be rejected. The author was on TV and said he was surprised at Harper's candour.

Therefore, Harper has nothing to hide and his position is clearly stated. That makes any attempt to suggest Harper directed this preposterous.

So, take this attack on Harper for what it is ... National Enquirer-type of rumour-mongering using vague language to mislead.

The Libs cannot beat Harper on the issues, so they're trying to beat an honourable man on gossip. Admittedly, that approach appeals to a certain segment of the population.

I guess we can assume that the SDA regulars have completely ruled out the possibility that Cadman didn't want hit his last weeks on Earth to be surrounded in scandal, even if he was truly angry about the (alleged) vote buy attempt.

Nope, there's no way the guy would have wanted to spare he and his family further media attention WHILE HE DIED OF CANCER. Impossible. Like RW above says, it must be a "liberal covert action"...yep, that ought to do the trick.

Well, it's one of two things; Your scrappy little PM Harper was party to an attempt to buy a vote, or the family of a dead man, with NOTHING to gain from it and much to lose, is for some strange reason lying in unison.

Easy to figure out where the Small-minded Animal would come down on this one. Harper is infallible, the family is lying (for what reason we do not know) and evil Liberals are somehow to blame for it.

When it comes down to a question of whether one believes a politician who is heard on a recorded tape as being intimately familiar with events connected to a vote-buying scandal, or the family who is now explaining how political operatives offered a dying man financial compensation for his vote, well, I always know which party I'll believe. Hint: it ain't the power hungry politician.

Carry on.

"Latest" wallyj @1101??

This was almost three years ago, around the time Belinda was bribed to go liberal. Let's investigate that!

Noone knows. The problem is that if it was an extraordinary bribe then the normal rules of insurance would not apply. In other words the CPC had found an insurer willing to do it, most likely culprit would have been their own party insurer.

The problem with my above statement is that it is pure speculation on HOW you could do something like this. There are many other ways. So it is incumbent on those throwing mus and the media to find evidence that this theory took place, not that it was possible (although that is one step) but that there is evidence (not proof) that it took place.

At this stage you have some troubling comments, some unfortuante wording from Harper himself. All acknowledge Cadman was concerned about his financial state and this was a primary motivation, so much for being solely a man of priciple....and so much for his family, his daughter crying becaus 1 million would have helped them so much, is she upset at the alleged bribe or upset that Chuck didnt take it? Maybe I have misunderstood her words.

Harper is clean, his quote says he is aware Findlay and Flanagan thought this, financial concerns, was the motivation but Harper is quoted as saying I dont believe it, I accept his decision. Ask if you want, but dont push it is the other part of his quote.

1) You need a credible theory, not out there for the moment since his insurance policy would have rolled over in terms of loss, so was there soemthing over and above, which makes little sense but nasty if true
2) You need some evidence to back up your theory.

Right now people are working the the wrong way back. There is alleged evidence but not sure of what.

This is a tempest in a teapot and pure gossip until you can get through those two questions. THEN you have to prove the evidence against other theories that fit it.

ADSCAM had a working theory, an understandable mechanism (false invoices and overpayment), evidence (from the auditor generals report and subsequet investigations) and proof, testimony and documents.

This has nothing to it....yet and maybe never.

RingoBoyo, Mrs. Cadman is, tada!! a politican herself!

Torywatcher, the Cadman clan has a lot to gain from this - I expect book sales are going to be heavy.

Actually ringoboyo @1241 that was one of several possibilities I enumerated.

So the same day this took place Belinda did cross the floor because of a bribe and that was ok but years later someone who didn't and for a hare brained idea like a life insurance policy no company would approve is what I'm supposed to believe.

Well if the CPC did who approached him, Krista Erickson?

set you free - what is your data base that sitting MPs are insured to the sum of one million? I've heard that it's 300,000. But I don't know.

There is no way that any insurance company would insure Cadman at this stage in his illness. Period.

Equally, it is absurd to set up a situation where, as Ignatieff-the-academic (and others) have attempted, it's an Either-Or situation. Either Mrs. Cadman, the widow (appeal to pity here) is lying, OR Harper is lying. That Either-Or is a fallacy.

The situation could be that both are telling the truth as they experienced the situation.

The CPC did not offer Cadman a million dollar life insurance policy (an impossibility); they might have offered him a sum to cover his financial losses within his MP insurance if the House fell.

And Mrs. Cadman might have interpreted her husband's words about this as 'not for a million dollars' or whatever.

Why is the media so willing to ignore what some people are saying (Harper, and the two CPC people who talked with Cadman; and Cadman's own taped words that there were no offers) and accept the hearsay of Mrs Cadman and her daughter?

Why was the book sent to Paul Martin who wrote a forward to it? Why is the author selling the tape for $500 each?

Why did the MSM and parliament essentially ignore that Paul Martin bribed Belinda Stronach with a cabinet post to cross the floor and save his minority? Why are they saying nothing about the Liberal strategy of trying to get Grewal's vote? And the tape that was altered in that situation?

Why is the Liberal party focusing on this, made up only of hearsay, and not paying back the 40 million in taxpayer funds they used for their Quebec election work in 1995?

I've been absorbing all the interviews and like most others am appalled
that we are even contemplating the veracity of this trumped-up non-story.

What seems obvious though,are the following:
(i) Libs would do anything for power;
(ii) Duffy has more integrity than the rest of the media establishment put together;
(iii) Chuck's family lack his integrity, totally; and,
(iv) I wouldn't now buy this book for a dime if
there were $100 dollar bills inserted between the pages.

RW, thanks for making my point even more salient, although I'd point out she's not a politician yet (my definition is that's usually someone who's been elected, and so far, no dice). However, she is a Conservative leveling these charges on her Conservative colleagues. So that alone makes her charges all the more compelling.

BTW, the stuff about Belinda is just lame. It's old. People saw how Martin operated, and kicked his sorry sack to the curb. They gave Harper his minority government in response to Martin's incompetence and ethical shakiness. Turns out he's...not so different.

But remember: today's topic is Conservative vote-buying allegations. Please stay on topic.

Ringo, you putz, we see through unsubstantial allegations here. You get wood.

Lets not forget the Liberal gun registry overrun – Almost 2 billion now folks – Anyone feel safer on the streets today or in their homes than they felt 10 years ago??

More like suckers really, and where did ALL that money go?
Where is the Liberal promise of safer streets with a gun registry?
Canadians forget that the Liberals didn’t lose the last election – They were tarred, feathered and run out of town…

"The Libs cannot beat Harper on the issues, so they're trying to beat an honourable man on gossip"

LOL, this is GREAT!!! The sooner fatty harpo and the rest of the bleathing, hypocritical rightards are gone the better!! Keep shooting yourselves in the feet, Cons! LOL BWAHAHAHAHA!!!

if the CPC planned to pay cadman's widow the million bucks out of it's own bloated coffers, no actual policy was required...

Well,Ronny Jingo,this is about vote-buying,you know like the libs enticing Belinda over with a cabinet position? You seem to have taken a page out of the ethics commitee book,they will not allow questions about KHS dealing with libs because after all,it is the conservatives that are the bad boys. The libs are all rainbows,apple pie and extra sprinkles on your donut.

jeff davidson, what is it about "insurance policy" that you don't understand.

Everybody seems to have a theory on this one - documentation would be nice. If Mrs Cadman and author are so sure of themselves, let them name names, and fact the defamation consequences.

Put up or shut up; you too jeff.

Jeffy boy,are you saying that it wasn't an insurance policy but a pay-off from the party? Then why all the talk about a policy? Was Chucky and his bride confused? Was George Bush bankrolling Harper? Are the insurance underwriters being paid off to keep quiet about the policy? Where was Harper on 9/11?

jeff davidson - you're right, but you need proof about a number of issues:

1) That the CPC actually DID offer Cadman a 1 million dollar life insurance policy.

2) That this money would come from their own coffers

3) That such a payment would pass their auditors and Board of Directors

Could you provide some evidence for the above?

I suspect that the CPC did offer Cadman some financial consideration to make up for the loss to his insurance policy if the House fell.

I strongly doubt that it was for a million dollars for the above reasons - there ARE constraints and rules on spending within any party and all monies must be audited. I strongly doubt that the Board of Directors, who are not under Harper's authority, would permit such an action.

I do suspect that Cadman did, however, tell his wife that he would make up his own mind (as Harper said he would) and that no-one could 'affect his decision-making process'..Not For A Million Dollars.

The phrase Not For A Million Dollars is as common a phrase used to emphasize commitment as 'I Swear On My Mother's Grave. Use of either phrase doesn't mean that either the million dollars was offered or one's mother is dead.

On the one hand, we have the public record, where Cadman said on three separate occasions he was offered no benefit. On the other hand, we have claims he told his wife and daughter as he was dying that an offer was made that doesn't stand up to scrutiny. Gripping hand, the MSM is slathering and faling over itself to get any kind of story it can.

My conclusion: It's all crap. I don't believe ANY of it.

lets be clear....Cadman was an MP until he was no longer an MP, and that means after losing an election, not when a writ is dropped.

So Cadman would had to have LOST election or not run.

The fact that he could roll over his insurance policy into a private plan no questions asked is the telling point.

Everyone seems to admit that financial considerations were a matter of discussion.

Those are facts. Now try to fit your theory incorporating those, and then start looking for additional evidence.

Additional Theories

1) CPC offered a series of additional life insurance policies that they would pay for, it has been stated that you can get policies up to $250,000 no questions asked. CPC would pay premiums....

2) CPC offers Chuck to run as a con in the election and pay his election expenses and pay his policy when it rolls into a private plan, should he lose....

3) CPC offers cash outright.

Ok, which theory makes the most sense, seems the most plausible, easiest to implement and involves nothing illegal. Seems 2) would be the plan you would go through....I could see 1) being a close second.

Perhaps there was an offer to get him an additional policy if ran as a tory, that could have been made available to him under the CPC "corporate plan" if he was a party employee (being a candidate makes you so I believe, a fact to be checked)

There are ways to simplify this and have all sides still be correct in their stories, nobody is lying. An offer of a million dollar policy on its own makes no sense unless you get implications at the insurance company level, potentially fraud by the agent or an uinsurance company so wedded to the cons that they could this past shareholders.....insurance company would have to be private to do that, a public company wouldnt be able to make this fly by all of the controls someone like that has.

As well, an insurance company would be put under some pretty nasty scrutiny by the Financial regualtor if this got out...what other duff policies have these guys written etc etc. So why you would threaten your insurance license is beyond me.

1 or 2 make more sense to me than other theories.

Once we satisfy this one what pressure is building on the Liberal leadership candidates reagrding the loans and debt they took on....be curious to find out when those loans get turned into donations, which have caps....how are they getting out of this one.

Szabo is calling for an immediate public inquiry into Schrieber. He doesn't want to wait even the 2 to 3 weeks until his committee releases their report. The libs are running this story up the flagpole. I think that an election call is coming down sooner rather than later and the libs platform will be alleged tory corruption as they do not have any policies. Why else would they want an inquiry over a 13 year-old affair immediately?

ET has it nailed again. One could easily say he would not sell his vote (and who knows what the LIEberals offered, if anything?) "Not for a million dollars."
A grieving family who wanted to help the sale of a book that would not have a wide appeal might now interpret it to mean something all together different than first intended. It's amazing what grief can do (speaking from experience)to the mind and even one's judgment. The first three years are the worst.
BUT, if they believed it did happen and Mr. Cadman was terribly upset about it in his final days, I would think that as a party member I would have mentioned it to another party member at some point - without waiting for a convenient book unveiling.
Now we will see how many friends within the party come forward to reveal that the family did share this. They definitely haven't been silent all this time about an issue that has obviously rankled them so much.

this is a fantasy, there are no such policies. no questions asked? these have so many disclaimers even Richard Warman couldnt find an opening or a payoff.

1) CPC offered a series of additional life insurance policies that they would pay for, it has been stated that you can get policies up to $250,000 no questions asked. CPC would pay premiums....

Hold the presses. It may all be true. I just saw a commercial from Norwich Union that makes it look quite easy to obtain a HUGE insurance policy. No medical exam NECESSARY. Hah,Steffi is right again.:)

Here's the big trouble for Harper...he appears to have known about the meeting and some type of offer, and that such offer was being made in the context of addressing financial concerns of the then-dying Cadman.

I'm not sure what others will think, but to me, the biggest troublesome quote for Harper is this one:

QUOTE
"The offer to Chuck was that it was only to replace financial considerations he might lose due to an election," Harper says.

Here's the relevant Criminal Code section:

QUOTE
Bribery of judicial officers, etc.
119. (1) Every one is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding fourteen years who

(a) being the holder of a judicial office, or being a member of Parliament or of the legislature of a province, directly or indirectly, corruptly accepts, obtains, agrees to accept or attempts to obtain, for themselves or another person, any money, valuable consideration, office, place or employment in respect of anything done or omitted or to be done or omitted by them in their official capacity, or

(b) directly or indirectly, corruptly gives or offers to a person mentioned in paragraph (a), or to anyone for the benefit of that person, any money, valuable consideration, office, place or employment in respect of anything done or omitted or to be done or omitted by that person in their official capacity.

Consent of Attorney General
(2) No proceedings against a person who holds a judicial office shall be instituted under this section without the consent in writing of the Attorney General of Canada.

Criminal Code s. 119

In my opinion, when the consequence of an MP's vote is dissolution of Parliament, and therefore, financial consequences to him, preventing him from voting to prop up the government by offering to "replace the financial considerations he might lose due to an election" is a blatant offer of valuable consideration in respect of his official capacity.

My opinion does not change for the better for Harper if the offer was only for an uncontested nomination in the next election...to me that is a blatant offer of an office or employment in respect of Cadman's official capacity.

I am bright enough to know that we don't yet know everything about this whole issue, but there absolutely needs to be a full RCMP investigation...because there are a number of versions of what happened here (some of which I'm apparently hearing in Harper's own taped words) which would squarely fit within the Criminal Code definition of bribery.

The Liberals are up a creek without a paddle. It's a good time for Harper to call an election to put them in the sewer lagoon where they belong, they can smear each other. No government can tolerate that kind of behaviour in and out of the HOC. That's not what we send them there to do.
Liberals can't win on policies so they've gone to the gutter to get material to TRY to bring others down to their level.
Let's have at 'em.

You can't get life insurance policies for someone who is medically certified as within a terminal illness.

No, you may not need a medical exam for a policy worth 250,000 but you still need to answer questions on the policy application, and if you fail to disclose your medical condition, that nullifies the policy.

Again, the issue comes down to several things: One, the Agenda of the Liberal Party at the moment.
Two, the Truth of what happened re Chuck Cadman.

With regard to the Liberal party, their agenda is simple. Smear Harper. That has been their only agenda with regard to Harper, starting from 'hidden agenda, 'scary Harper' and all sorts of names, to their attempt to link Schreiber-Mulroney to Harper (failed).

Their unethical strategy is part of their own mode of operation, whether it be using taxpayer money to pay for Liberal election work in Quebec, or bribing Belinda Stronach with a cabinet position, to trying to bribe Grewal, to visiting Schreiber in prison to arrange tactics, to working with a CBC reporter for Rodriguez to ask questions outside of the mandate of the Ethics committee...on and on and on. That's The Liberal Way.

So-what really happened with Cadman? Remember, Cadman himself said that no offers were made to him. Why won't the Liberals accept this?

Again, two CPC members did visit him, that's to be expected. They knew that he was concerned about finances; they offered him financial assistance - which they say was to cover his re-election expenses if the gov't fell. And even, that if he wanted to return to the CPC, he could. Or, if he wanted to run again as an independent, they wouldn't mount a CPC candidate against him. That seems entirely plausible.

The one million dollar life insurance policy is not plausible; the 'set' of several smaller life insurance policies is equally not plausible, for all of them, on finding out the insured was terminally ill at the time of signing and KNEW it, even without a medical, would refuse to pay. The scandal of such a situation - would be enormous.

I suggest that Cadman told his wife and daughter that he wouldn't change his mind or take any offer (the CPC help with his re-election)..not for a million bucks.

Again - that's a common saying; it doesn't mean he was offered the impossible - a million dollar life insurance policy. Or even, a million dollars from the CPC coffers- their auditors wouldn't allow that.

But, the Liberals, who know only the corrupt world, aren't interested in the truth.

Why does the name 'Stronach' keep popping into my mind? Who could afford to pay a dying man a million dollars? The day Mrs. Cadmen claims the policy was 'offered' was before the Liberano's PUBLICALLY succeeded in bribing Belinda across the floor with a cabinet post - she didn't need money.....

The CBC adscam uncovering happened at a convenient time for 'unka Mo' and the comrades of the 'one world communist government elitists'; Mr. Hawkins was 'uncovering' a much less savory connection the Liberanos had with the $$$ for oil deal (the UN oil-for-food arrangement changed into the oil-for-$$ arrangement - ever wonder where the 'seed' money came from???) set up with Saddam Hussein. It was all going as planned until the intrepid president of the United States, President George Bush, marched into Iraq! Feathers were flying in the 'Unca Mo' gaggle of geesy Puffins, one can just imagine - how to keep the taxpaying peons from finding out! Give them something else to 'chew' on - Adscam was the lesser of the two scandals (after-all the 'Quebec issue' was a semi acceptable scandal in comparison to the planned enslavement of all the people on earth!) The msm in Canada and in the USA collaborated with their masters (the kyota crowd) with all the 'air power' they had - they managed to turn his heroic invasion into Iraq into a fanatical hatred for President Bush who was attempting to keep the chains of state slavery off the people of the free world.

Chuck played a very small role in this massive cover-up but I do not believe that he was proud of his 'role'; I saw his face that day in the House of Commons - it had Tragedy stamped all over it and his tortured steel blue eyes were those of a hunted, crippled, dying wolf. My heart hurt for him. Chuck's daughter and wife are very selfish people, in my opinion, to be trying to make hay from Chuck's gut wrenching decision to vote for them instead of principle - that Liberano government was a illegitimate government, it had already been defeated, Chuck in full health would have never, IMO, supported such an aberration of democracy; under any circumstances.

All in all, I see no proof, no evidence of anything improper.

And remember, innocent unless proven guilty.

No proof, just accusations, and from highly questionable source, Mrs. Cadman. I don't believe her. Why is she saying this to the media, rather than to the police? Why after so long? What is her true agenda? Is she in cahoots with some shady Liberals? Gotta ask.

The spotlight must be shone on Mrs. Cadman. She must be asked to provide proof.

And the author of the Cadman book must turn over any and all evidence, all originals, to the RCMP. Has he? Doesn't sound like that.

And there's the reasonable suggestion that the tiny, "scratchy" clip being hawked by the author might be doctored.

The Liberals... and the MSM... are on thin ice.

If this is a conspiracy to use mere unbacked accusations and scary headlines to harm the Conservatives' image in the public mind... it's going to backfire.

I'm counting the days until proof is provided...

Demand proof. Absent proof, start a lawsuit.

NEvertheless, people who don't like the Tories to begin with will believe the accusations anyway.

Anyway, I smell Liberal desperation as being behind what's going on, at a time when the Liberals appear to be dead in the water. They may be trying to do whatever it takes to put some wind in their sails. Don't forget that they're crooked. And still under police criminal investigaion (3 dozen investigations ongoing).

Jema: You touch on something that should be expanded upon.

How would Chuck Cadman have voted if he was in good health?

Maybe Johnny Ringo can explain why Chuck Cadmans last act as an MP was completely at odds with everything he had said or done in his entire career as a Parliamentarian.

Heres a quote from Chuck with his thoughts on the Liberals

“This was a wake-up call for the Liberals. Their arrogance has given way to complacency and a sense that they can do what they want with little or no consequence. Well, today that arrogance caught up with them,” says Surrey North MP Chuck Cadman. “All of their self-righteous protestations about dirty tricks and theatrics don’t hold water. There was absolutely nothing underhanded about what occurred today. The opposition expressed its displeasure with the actions of the government. That is one of the roles of the opposition. The Liberals were embarrassed as well they should be.”

Doesn't sound much like a guy who would support a corrupt regime - unless there was some kind of extenuating circumstance.

"Daughter urges Dona Cadman to run as an independent" CBCnews.ca

Jodi Cadman told CBC news she talked to her mother friday by telephone and asked "Why are you running for the Conservative Party if you are accusing them of this?"

"If it was such an indecent proposal, How are you in good conscience running for that particluar party?"

Dona Cadmans campaign manager Bill Zemiansko claims there's no problem sticking with the Conservative Party.
"The prime minister supports her 100 percent and she supports the prime minister 100 percent," Zemianski told CBC news friday

Well she sure has a funny way of showing 100% support for the PM. Iam thinking now that after the profits from the book sales reach a certain point OR the RCMP find no Wrong Doing nothing but pure speculation. That Mrs Cadman will step aside as the CPC canidate in her riding, all she then has to say is maybe she was mistaken, Sorry. But KaChinnnggg.
Too much Jerry Springer going on here.

If you're right TO lawywer, then Harper will have plenty of cellmates, like Chretien, Dosanj, Martin and many other Liberals.

I think you're wrong. You're trying to read something into this. You didn't mention the term "CORRUPTLY gives or offers." That term is there for a reason, for criminal activity, not the day to day enticing of politicians to cross the floor. Stronach was offered a benefit, Dosanj offered a benefit. Brison was offered as benefit. And so on.

BTW, it you are right, then Cadman also commited criminal act - he attempted to obtain a "benefit." As I said your reading is not narrowly enough construed; otherwise, the Tories and RCMP would have nailed the Grits big time for above offers, in the case of Dosanj, clearly documented. Harper makes no specific reference, just general, in his taped conversation.

Anyway, we're all innocent until proven guilty. Anyway, Canadians don't care about this one. Anyway, Grits will bluster and bluff some more (ooh, Garth Turner says they might force election, what a joke - go for it).

Hmm, maybe Tories leaked the whole thing to sucker Grits into forcing election. Who knows right now. Like I said, what a joke.

"Globe and mail to send crack team to investigate" Well kiddies I need to ask a"are they on crack,or just a bunch of amateur proctoligists" ????? In either case point them at Steffi and Iggy they will fit right in with those two wankers.

T.O Lawyer - you say that an 'uncontested election' offer would fall under this criminal code. But the Liberals have done just that with Elizabeth May in Peter McKay's NS riding, where they openly declared that they wouldn't run a Liberal candidate against her.

And they offered Belinda Stronach a cabinet position for crossing the floor.
And they offered Grewal inducements for his vote.
That was on tape.

By the way - what does 'corruptly' mean when attacked to 'accept, give, offer'?

Again, hearsay evidence is inadmissable in court and ought to be laughable in public opinion. Are Canadians that dumb? Yes?

Certainly, the CPC visited Cadman; that's hardly illegal or reprehensible. But, they say that the offers were dealing with his financial considerations if the House moved into an election. They would help with his re-election; they wouldn't run a candidate in the riding. What's wrong with that?

Remember, no-one knew he would be dead in five months; he could have, if the House fell, been re-elected in six weeks, and lived on for..four more months or several years.

Again, there is no plausibility of a million dollar life insurance policy. And no plausibility of a 'set' of little policies which would be null and void without a medical exam if he failed to disclose his ill health on the application. After all - you DO have to apply, even if you don't go for a medical exam.

But, there IS great plausibility that what Mrs Cadman heard, was her husband saying - I won't go into an election, not for a million dollars.

No one except Cadman and the two conservative operatives were in the room so anything anyone says after the fact is speculation.

Here's my speculation.

Chuck "I'm voting to sustain the gvt because if I don't I will lose my MPs life insurance." (This part seems to be widely known as PMSH hinted at it and Duffy said he knew as well).

Conservative operative, "Well Chuck that sounds very noble of you but we would like to point out that if you joined our caucus we would ensure that you would have our nomination unchallenged."

Chuck, "but I can't just abandon my family".

Conservative operative, "Well Chuck I believe that all our candidates are automaticly covered by our group policy, and if I remember correctly that coverage is for a million dollars".

Chuck "Well I don't trust you because of the way you treated me before so I am going to go for what I KNOW my widow will get".

Conservative operatative, "OK Chuck we understand but if you change your mind let us know".

Breaking news from CTV Newsnet... The next election is in the bag for the Liberals.

"There's growing speculation that the Cadman affair could be the catalyst that brings down the Harper government." - Jennifer Ward, CTV Newsnet anchor, just moments ago.

Never mind a more neutral descriptor like, "There's growing speculation that the Cadman affair could be the catalyst that triggers an election," CTV, through the process of counting ballots that have yet to be cast, combined with their powers of clairvoyance, and the surging momentum that's naturally generated by "growing speculation", have determined ahead of even the most eager election result progosticators that we will have a new gov't as a result of the Cadman Affair.

You really nailed it equating it with Jerry Springer there, bryanr, it's a real good show for Springer to run with.
Talk about cheap, low brow, low grade politics coming to you from the Liberal warring, fractious and desperate snake pit.
Truthfully, this is about the most juvenile attempt at smear in memory.

Book sales? Who the hell will waste money on that book?

Note to Johnny Ringo.
I'm 72 years Old. I was In the MSM for almost 40 years. I can tell you, 90 percent of reporters in the MSM are Liberal and left wing. I Know. I WAS THERE!
There are two or three so called media Gurus in the Parliamentary press gallery and at Queen's Park who are followed around by the rest of the reporters like sheep.

The further one looks into this, the less good Mr. Cadman looks. Unfortunately for him, a series of events, health issues, and the terms of the parliamentary life insurance plan put him in a position, that if he voted to prop up a corrupt and failing Liberal government he would receive a healthy financial reward.

If there was a bribe here it appears that Mr. Cadman bribed himself to support the Liberals.

Why has Dona Cadman not appeared in public? Why has she not been seen/heard on CBC/CTV explaining her story?
Speak out, Dona Cadman. Your silence is puzzling.
...-

Welcome to DonaCadman.ca

Our pledge to build a Stronger, Safer, and Better Canada
Canada's Government is achieving real results for British Columbia and all Canadians through Budget 2007.
I am very proud to be part of a government that moves to restore the fiscal balance in Canada, cuts taxes for working families, reduces the national debt, and invests in key priorities like improving health care and environmental protection.
http://www.donacadman.com/

What puzzles me is that how come Dona Cadman rejected going on camera the other day when CTV conacted her on that phone interview. She told the interveiwer that she would talk on the phone but not on camera. This was on Mike Duffy Live. Something just doesn't jive. Being that she's a candidate for the CPC, she will be in front of a camera sometime.
Like why, this whole camera thing has me wondering.

Liberals like JohnyRingo,lberia project their natural reflexive instinct of corruption on others simply because that's the way they are are wired.
How else could one vote for a Liberal government who had a core that was so rotten Jimmy Hoffa's remains would look intact in comparison.

The stench the Liberals are smelling is not coming from the Cadman story its coming from within their own ranks.

Another thing Paul Martin writing the forward in the
book. What is his whole involvement in this? He apparently had a transcript a year ago? He must have read it surely. If there was something so criminal that went on then why didn't he say something? Why all of this now?

Highly disingeneous. The policy already existed ... it was simply a matter of making the payments on an existing policy.

Harper's career is over, and the Tories have little chance of winning an election after a scandal that appears to be the biggest since 1873 ...

I certainly hope, for your sakes, that the Conservative Party can come up with a better defence than "No, no, no...Chuck Cadman probably told his wife that he would never accept anything, not even a million dollars!" or the other brilliant observation, "Hey, strange, innit, that Dona Cadman did a telephone interview rather than a TV interview. Wonder what THAT'S all about...makes ya wonder."

Because while I hate to question the collective political genius of the SDA flock, one has to wonder if these response lines are truly indicative of the best and the brightest the Conservative Party has to offer. Judging from James Moore and the others this week, I think it is.

Why aren't the MSM looking into the Stronach floor crossing cabinet bribe?

Watch Dona Cadman bolt to the Liberal Party.

Ahh, yes. I think you're right, Steve. Dion will appoint her to fulfill his quota of female candidates. Wonder what she'll be bribed with. Hmmm...

nick - what policy already existed? The CPC doesn't insure its members; the Cdn govt insures MPs, at double their salary. So, Cadman's insurance would be at least 300,000. No MP gets that much more, not even a Cabinet Minister.

So, what policy are you talking about? And what are you talking about - 'making payments'?

What scandal are you talking about? Do you mean Adscam?
As for Cadman - nothing has been, not merely proven, but there's no evidence of any wrongdoing. All there is, is Mrs Cadman and an author making a declaration. That's hearsay not evidence.

Johnny Ringo, in the absence of evidence that any bribe was made, speculation about the allegations screamed out by the Liberal Party can't be anything other than - pure speculation.

You know, in the absence of evidence that the sky is falling, you may indeed conclude that it is, but, we aren't all endowed with the brains of Chicken Little.

Leftards are way too funny. My neighbor is a liberal. She fully admits to knowing nothing about policies, but is voting liberal in the Alberta provincial elections. Why, because the politician in her riding is so cute that she'd like to "lick his face".
Maybe johhyringo wants to lick Dion's face.

Steve, what was the bribe? Any proof of a bribe? Explain.

Johnny, what about her instant Cabinet post and how did she vote? Why she voted with the Liberal government. why didn't she sit as a backbencher when she crossed the floor? That would have been the right thing for her to do.

Johnny Ringo

Re:Belinda Stronach floor crossing Liberal Cabinet Post bribe.

She was bribed by the Liberal Party of Canada to cross the floor and keep the corrupt Liberal government of Paul Martin in power with a cabinet post.

Continuing on with Liberal allegations, Ezra Levant writes how a Liberal member, speaking under immunity from libel in the House, said:

Ms. Raymonde Folco (Laval-Les Iles, Lib.):

" Mr. Speaker, ...

There are plenty more examples of suspicious activity. A former member of Parliament for the Prime Minister's riding, Ezra Levant, also received a lot of money to give up his seat to the Prime Minister himself. This government does not hesitate to flout election laws, and it could not care less about respect. Words fail me—"

Ezra writes that, sad to say, he never was an MP, didn't give up his seat, and didn't receive a penny. He was campaigning in the seat Harper now holds.

Ezra has written a letter to this Liberal MP, but, she's covered under the House immunity 'rights'; that is, it is her 'right' to lie in the House.

And here's Ezra's column on Cadman, written almost three years ago, in May 2005, on Cadman and the fact that he'd changed. Ezra was suggesting that Cadman had been bought out by the Liberals!

"A Liberal named Tim Murphy, to be exact. Murphy is Paul Martin's chief of staff, the one caught on tape trying to get Conservative MP Gurmant Grewal to vote with the Liberals. Murphy told Grewal not to defect outright, like Belinda Stronach did, and not to make a fuss. He told Grewal not to admit to any deal. He told Grewal to explain a vote in support of the Liberals as something his "constituents" would have wanted, so as to avoid an election.

Those were the official excuses written by Murphy for Grewal. And they happened to be exactly what Cadman had been so unconvincingly muttering for a week."

Ezra refers to Mike Duffy's private conversation with Cadman, which Duffy referred to on his show two days ago: "Mike Duffy says that, three years ago, Chuck Cadman led him to believe that he was voting to sustain the Liberals because it would be the best way to maximize his insurance benefits

But Duffy's private conversation with Cadman explains it -- he simply got to avoid an election, so his family did not have to go uninsured even for a five-week election campaign"

That's what Flanagan and the other guy were talking about - Cadman's concerns that he didn't want an election because he didn't want to be uninsured over that election period. The CPC offered not to run a candidate against him; to help him with election expenses. He'd be certain to win. Again, no-one knew whether he'd live only for five months or several years.

What puzzles me about the Liberals is that they don't focus on policies - their policies on Kyotoism and Afghanistan are pure empty rhetoric. Instead, their greatest focus is on equally empty but highly visible scandal-mongering. What kind of political responsibility is that?

Don't bother with the trolls/Harperhaters. Their points are ludicrous - oh, what was Belinda's bribe? Looking past Adscam through to this, as greatest scandal "since 1873."

Nobody cares about this, because there's nothing there. Another recycled Grit outrage, desperately trying to prove Tories just as corrupt as them.

Too funny. I would love to see election forced on this issue.

Belinda was not bribed. I don't know why people continue to insinuate that. Simply put, she deserved to be in cabinet. She was a seasoned political veteran on Parliament Hill, having served her constituents well as an MP going back more than 20 years. Over her career, she served as minister in several high profile portfolios, amassing a wealth of knowledge along the way that made Martin's choice a good one. And that - not any bribe that's being suggested - is why Belinda deserved to be in cabinet. There's not a shred of evidence that she was offered anything.

Art Vandalay

Re: Belinda Stronach Floor crossing in exchange for LiberaL cabinet post bribe.

Stroncah received an inducement to cross the floor and keep the corrupt Liberal government of Paul Martin in power in the form of A Liberal Cabinet post bribe.

"she served as minister in several high profile portfolios, amassing a wealth of knowledge along the way that made Martin's choice a good one."

Do you mean like the pink book? Thank you so much for the laugh Art! Belinda was an airhead who would do anything to get a head. Martin used her and she used Martin. She sure was gone quick when the liberals were defeated.

Belinda was a "seasoned political veteran" in her own mind maybe. Sheesh, what's going on with peoples minds out there?

Belinda wanted to be in cabinet, she was induced by Paul Martin with a cabinet seat which she promptly got. That's it that's all.
However, when Liberals offer bribes of any sort it's never as serious as a Conservative fabricated bribe.

There will be some pretty serious fallout from this Cadman accusation put forth by Dion and the Liberals and their minions. It should take enough wind from their sails to shock them off the gotcha train wreck they've been on.

Vandaly, you need to ease up on your drug intake. Stronach was first elected to HofC in 2004 - narrowly. What 20 years are you talking about? She had never had a Cabinet positon prior to being bribed by Paul Martin. She never paid her political dues, period. She ran for the leaderhsip of the Alliance and Tories without even having a seat in Parliament.

Not a shred of evidence she was offered anything, eh. You really need to pay more attention to detail. Are you being sarcastic? I hope so; otherwise you just outed yourself as an idiot.

Art - For the record, sarcasm is the hardest medium to paint in on an anonymous message board.

I did see your wonderful brush strokes, though. Nicely done.

What I'm concerned about in this whole matter is that good people getting their reputations ruined. Mainly by the Libranos and the MSM. How low can they go? I would be ashamed to have any affiliation with the Librano party or the MSM. The only one that has been objective in the MSM so far is Mike Duffy I feel.

It's important to take note of the mystical animal involved in the deal: the unicorn.

That wasn't by chance. As many on the left know, Harper drinks the blood of unicorns in order to sustain his evil powers,

and so he keeps a stable of unicorns on hand at all times. For him, throwing a unicorn into the deal was therefore no big deal at all - evil AND shrewd, now that's a potent brew.

I cannot fault Charles Cadman for doing whatever he thought most likely would support his family once he was gone; from some of the descriptions given here, it would seem that he was caught between his principals and his imminent death, and knew he lost even as he won. May none of the rest of us ever have to make this choice.
Given that the position of those Liberal supporters here has been "How dare you speak ill of the dead!", does it make any sense that their party drags poor Mr.Cadman out of the grave with no definitive proof of scandal, to dance around for them in a partisan attempt at smearing Harper?
If respect for Mr. Cadman ever entered into the actions of those now yelling the loudest, they would have at minimum held back saying anything until they could prove it.

Strange - so much media and speculation on this, and previously on the "ethics" committee's Brian Mulroney witch hunt, but little on this breaking news:

National Post ordered to hand over document at heart of 'Shawinigate'

What gives?

This is not the first time a liberal has used the dead to further his ambition. Didn't Volpe have lots of donations from dead people, plus kids.

Well that's easy Jimbo, It's about the Liberals not Conservatives. They want hide this under the rug cause it might hurt their precious friends especially when the Liberals appear to be weak right now.
But bash the Conservatives before getting all the facts well that's the thing to do. There's no bias in the media, give me a break. Here's a great example. The Cadman thing, yeah dis the CPC the more the merryier. Shawinigate and the Liberals, we
don't want say anything negative about them cause we don't want to see them get hurt.

"It is possible that Harper and his aides were stupid and venal enough to offer a sitting MP a $1 million bribe. But history shows that it is also very possible that they weren't – that what seems so certain now may turn out to have been considerably less dramatic."

And this is from Thomas Walkom at the Toronto Star. When a columnist at the Red Star doesn't think there's much to an alleged Tory scandal, there ain't much to it.

Shawinigate and Adscam were real, this Cadman affair is a Phantom "scandal" whipped up by desperate fools, kind of a blind man's bluff. It's obviously a collaboration so lets watch for the dominos to fall.

Steve,

Well, according to the HarperLovers here, if there is no evidence of a bribe (aside from the unified statements of the family of a dead MP, that is), then the whole thing is a figment of the accuser's imagination...so, once again, in the Martin/Stronach case, what exactly was the bribe?

You mean the Prime Minister is not allowed to accept floor crossers into his cabinet? Where is that written down?

Because if you ARE saying that Martin bribed Stornach with a cabinet posting, you must also mean Harper bribed David Emerson into joining the Conservative caucus with the reward of a cabinet seat. Heh...looks like Harper is no different than Martin after all.

You guys can't have it both ways. If Martin broke some sort of ethical, moral code in rewarding Belinda a cabinet post for crossing the floor and propping up his government, then how can you explain away Harper's acknowledgment, on tape, that he was aware of a financial inducement - which was offered to a dying MP, who, in a totally flukey coincidence, would be casting the deciding vote on whether to bring down the government?

This oughta be good...

I remember the Liberal Party of Canada from way back. Bit of the old vaudeville act here, ah, cunning charlatans, ah rogues. Love the old routine myself.

They are not going to defeat Harper.

"They are not going to defeat Harper."
Absolutely right Peter. After all the shrieking by the leftards, it comes down to that. Not a chance that these idiots defeat Harper, he's playing chess while these morons play checkers.
Go Harper!

No, JohnnyR, Liberals can't have it their way. No muss, no fuss, either way, politics makes strange bedfellows. So be it. Why can't Grits let this one go. Too easy to answer. It wasn't a true scandal when Brison, KMartin, Stronach (offered cabinet post over head of several qualified women, who had paid their dues while, she hadn't spent minute helping the Liberals-nothing toward there, eh?). So what, on and on we go. Unless more comes to light, same thing here; and just what new will come to light?. Now, that will be good Peter(Lock City). Governments didn't fall then and they won't fall now, unless Harper has a further hand to play.

The problem is the can't pull it off the faux outrage with their inexperienced leader, who has the public personna of a turnip. They could never let him get loose in an election. That's why he's been forced to duck the electorate. The Grits are screwed, and the party is smart enough to know it. All they can do is scream, bluster and demand investigations. SOP, so what.

In fact, l'affair Cadman (unless, though no evidence yet, that anyone crossed the line-or, life insurance policy issued by Bre-X Life, I guess), serves to illustrate the dilemma the LPC faces. They need power now to raise money, yet they can't pull the trigger on their rudderless party.

In a way JR, I can't wait. This should be good.

"Well, it's one of two things; Your scrappy little PM Harper was party to an attempt to buy a vote, or the family of a dead man, with NOTHING to gain from it and much to lose, is for some strange reason lying in unison."

Well, there is no doubt someone in the Cadman clan is lying. I guess you missed the part where Cadman told the cvountry there was nothing offered and then tells his wife there was an offer. So, someone is lying-and its not Harper.

Horny Toad

Reread your comments and give your heads a shake.

The deliberate ignorance about extensive discussion and investigation about past issues which had the potential to appear as inducements (i.e. Stronach, Grewal) were endlessly discussed, ranted about (by the likes of you all) and investigated.

On the face of it, this is much more serious, and yet, somehow it is not worthy of any attention, as it does not involve "corrupt Liberals", but rather your infallible beloved Reform/Conservatives.

Well, guess again, Einstein - not all Liberals are corrupt, and not all Reform/Conservatives are saints. There, I said it. I know it may shock those of you with extremely low iq's, which is to say a great many of you, but that is a fact.

Just ask youself what Cadman's widow and daughter have to gain by this? Why in god's name would they make this up? Why are you calling them liars?

FRMGRL Said

"What I'm concerned about in this whole matter is that good people getting their reputations ruined. Mainly by the Libranos and the MSM. How low can they go?"

Uhm... maybe you didn't notice, but that is exactly how you came to power. Baseless innuendo against Paul Martin (why don't you ask Deb Grey how "corrupt" Martin is - we're talking boy scout) and bile spewed against Goodale about supposed income trust leaks, that's how.

Of course, not to mention the outright actionable crap that is spewed in many of the BT blogs that people don't bother to go after because they are so marginal and not worth the cost...

Yeah, you guys really care about reputations....

Why is there "no doubt" of that, HT? How sure are you? You really think there is no possibility Cadman wanted to avoid pinning a massive scandal on Harper, no matter how much he disliked the man, because he wanted to spend his last few weeks alive with his family, away from the glare of the national spotlight and the feeding frenzy that would ensue?

I know the answer - Go Harper!! He's playing chess while everyone else is playing checkers!! - but seriously, you guys are positively cult-like in your embrace of His Royal Highness. You'd be right at home in North Korea, methinks.

Peter(Lock City)@10:05PM

I think it's a bit disingenuous to compare the LPC to Vaudeville -
I remember the Liberal Party of Canada from way back.
Bit of the old vaudeville act here, ah, cunning charlatans,
ah rogues. Love the old routine myself.

Vaudeville was often a cunning array of stunts...

Despite the media's leftist bias, the average Canadian holds the CPC to a higher standard and thus all the hub-bub. This is why a ridiculous scenerio like this one can gain so much attention while the Stronach affair does not. Simply put, Canadians expect the Liberals to lie, cheat and bribe so it is not very news-worthy. Even the vague possibility of the CPC being involved in something like this is akin to your brightest, most responsible daughter coming home pregnant.

Johnny Ringo,

Perhaps you're right that Cadman wanted his last days on earth to be all cuddles and bunnies and roses, but that doesn't explain a few things:

1. If he was that upset, why he wouldn't leave a little bomb for the Conservatives after he passed away,

2. Why now? Why 21 months after the alleged events have the three Cadmans come forward right before the book release?

3. Why won't Mrs. Cadman speak about it on camera?

4. Why is the author selling edited audio tapes with his interview with Harper?

5. How long have the Liberals known about this and why haven't they pursued it earlier?

6. Why can't the author, Mrs Cadman or her daughter give specific details of any offers which were made?

7. What does it really say to you when the only "evidence" given is hearsay from people who were not present?

I'm sure that you realize that these are all questions which must be answered before "Cadscam" will turn into anything close to a scandal. And while I'm sure that you won't understand this, but believe it or not, but "Harper is evil, therefore it must be true" isn't evidence which proves your argument.

Alienated at 1145pm.

I did not miss your reposte. Naughty, naughty. (off to bed with a chuckle).

JR and fellow Liebranos are reminded of the list of 200 Liberal party scams all documented in the reliable Canadian media.

http://bendgovernment.blogspot.com/2005_12_01_archive.html

If you didn*t scroll down one post missing the 200 scams list, . . .

Just google *Scamslist* . The limited Liberal list of only 100 scams is at the TOP in Google. You can*t miss it. Enjoy. = TG

For all the fervent liberals out there: There was no law broken here. The reason is simple. If there was any inducement offered to Cadman it was to get him to return to the conservative caucus, not to sway his vote. Inducement to change caucus is perfectly legal even if it leaves a bad taste in the collective mouth of the electorate. If inducements to change caucus' was against the law Belinda and Paul would be sitting in the crowbar hotel.

"Belinda was not bribed. I don't know why people continue to insinuate that. Simply put, she deserved to be in cabinet".
LMFAO!! Stop, you're killing me.

" methinks." You don't think dipshit, you regurgitate.

There is a very good possibility that what was discussed (at least thrown out on the table) was a compensation to Cadman for the lost insurance value if he was still alive after the government had fallen. The CPC may have advanced the possibility of funding out what he would lose on the parliamentary insurance.
What is being missed by Stephanie et al is that, clearly, the financial consequences of a vote change, was an issue for Cadman, or this entire topic wouldn't have come up. Ethics aside as unknowable, Cadman took the safe route - he maintained status quo, even as the anecdotal evidence suggests he held ambivalence. Duffy's comments, if true, are the smoking gun.
I feel sorry for his wife and daughter. They have stepped into something way over their heads. The Liberals will now do as they always do, assume the cloak of victimhood for two purposes, to attempt to publicly embarrass the CPC AND make sure the Mrs. doesn't run against them in an election (and who can say this wasn't the intent from the git-go - to prevent a sympathy candidate from scooping a riding - the Liberals understand a thing or two about identity politics).

RingoDingo, can you explain why liberals always have to label people? You do it constantly, as do all of your cohorts. Some reason why people can't be just "people" without some sort of tribal tag being attached. I'm guessing its because you can't tell the "victims" without a program....

BTW, the unicorn comment wasn't accidental. Unicorns have no carbon footprint, and unicorn ranching is one of Stephanie's major planks in the Liberal Post-Kyoto Environmental Resurrection/Feed the World Without Technology Program.

Andrew,

1. If he was that upset, why he wouldn't leave a little bomb for the Conservatives after he passed away,

Looks like he DID leave a little bomb for the Conservatives.

2. Why now? Why 21 months after the alleged events have the three Cadmans come forward right before the book release?

I don't know. Why not five months? Why not 25 months?

3. Why won't Mrs. Cadman speak about it on camera?

Again, I don't know. Maybe because she's not used to being in the public eye. Doesn't bode well for her success as a politician, but then there are already too many Conservative MPs making asses of themselves on TV as it is. One less is quite welcome. And anyway, does she need to pimp her story on live TV? She said what needed to be said, and doesn't owe anybody anything further, although I'm sure she'll cooperate with whatever RCMP, parliamentary and judicial inquiry that may arise from this.

4. Why is the author selling edited audio tapes with his interview with Harper?

Well, he's a Canadian author, so he's very likely broke at the moment. Is there a law against selling tapes of Prime Ministers explaining their knowledge of financial inducements to dying MPs? Because there IS a law against bribing politicians. I think I know which practice I find more disturbing.

5. How long have the Liberals known about this and why haven't they pursued it earlier?

I'm sure the Liberals knew about this years and years and years ago. After all, it was the Liberals who implanted the remote-control chip in Chuck Cadman's brain, and controlled him from Langevin block. Otherwise, he'd have had his nose up Harper's tailpipe like the rest of the Conservative caucus. Darned Liberals and there mind-control technology!

6. Why can't the author, Mrs Cadman or her daughter give specific details of any offers which were made?

Well, Chuck Cadman IS dead, so he's not talking. But according to interviews with the Cadman family, he was clear that a financial offer was made. A million dollars, or a few hundred grand, or a new F-150...what difference does it make? All indications are that a reward was offered for his vote. You screamed bloody murder when Martin gave Stronach a cabinet post, but this is hunky-dory? Riiiiight.

7. What does it really say to you when the only "evidence" given is hearsay from people who were not present?

Well, Andrew, that tells me the investigation has only begun. And I look forward to hearing the results of RCMP interviews with with Conservative operatives as to what exactly was offered to Chuck Cadman. Since, you know, those guys were actually at the meeting.

It's been mentioned as a possibility that the tape itself had been edited in a suspicious manner. Whether or not this is true, is it even being investigated? Several days have passed and I haven't heard any follow up by the MSM. Is the CBC investigating this aspect of the story? Or is that only done as a damage control measure when Liberals are accused of offering bribes?

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2005/06/02/dosanjh-tapes050602.html

"Two audio experts have independently concluded that the secret recordings made by MP Gurmant Grewal were edited. John Dooher, a forensic audio engineer hired by CBC News, said Thursday there is a "crude" edit and something "amiss" about a section of tapes made by the B.C. member of Parliament."

Johnnyboy,you could have saved yourself a lot of typing by just answering questions 2 to 7 with,"I don't know and it doesn't matter because Harper is evil and eats babies".

Just shows how desperately pathetic liberals are. If this red herring affair gives the Eunuch Dion the courage to spark an election, perfect.

Dion is going to have to face the country. What better weapon for the Tory's than this loser not being able to duck from the public? He's DOA as a leader. And most of his own party already knows it. So what's the problem?

These allegations cannot be proven. And whatever Harper said is no more criminal than what the Liberals do over and over.

I think Joe might have it right:

Chuck "I'm voting to sustain the gvt because if I don't I will lose my MPs life insurance." (This part seems to be widely known as PMSH hinted at it and Duffy said he knew as well).

Conservative operative, "Well Chuck that sounds very noble of you but we would like to point out that if you joined our caucus we would ensure that you would have our nomination unchallenged."

Chuck, "but I can't just abandon my family".

Conservative operative, "Well Chuck I believe that all our candidates are automaticly covered by our group policy, and if I remember correctly that coverage is for a million dollars".

Chuck "Well I don't trust you because of the way you treated me before so I am going to go for what I KNOW my widow will get".

Conservative operatative, "OK Chuck we understand but if you change your mind let us know".

Posted by: Joe at March 1, 2008 4:04 PM

Well did they or didn't they??? Or rather was Chuck offered a bribe or consideration from the eevvill minions of kitten eating Harper(dressed in an ill fitting cowboy outfit) if there was something offered would it have been a O I don't know a cabinet post ??? oops my belinda!
Thing of it is what do steffi,iggy, and bringing up the rear scotty have their panties in a twist about I wonder after all Cadman voted with the Liberals now didn't he. I give full marks to Duffy for revealing his conversation with Mr. Cadman. I don't think there is anything to see here folks. Time to move along Steffi will vote the way P M S H tells him to anyway. He couldn't win an election, nor does he have the funds to fight one. Much ado about nothing.

Perhaps, just perhaps, we're all missing something here. Harper has been pretty clear as to his part in this, and we know how Cadman voted and understand his position, and we know that B Stronach crossed the floor and received a "goody" and Grewahl was approached with a bribe by the liberals, and we know that the Liberals had a meeting with Cadman, so what went down with Cadman and the Liberals. There is the rub, suppose as Cadman was lying in a drug induced euphoric deathbed he became disorientated and confused the CPC meeting with the Liberal meeting, and gave his wife and daughter the wrong information. If Harper is the big bad meanie that the Liberals say he is then he wouldn't have allowed the offer to have been made, on the other hand perhaps, just perhaps, he allowed it to be proferred to Cadman as an opening gambit to scewer the Liberals one more time. We all know that the Liberals have been playing fast and loose with the Canadian electorate for decades and the average Liberal voter will never see the error of their ways until somebody brings out the 2x4 so maybe what we have here is that the Liberals bring this scandal up and Harper already knows what the Liberals offered Cadman and he is going to lay upon them with the 2x4 when it becomes a full inquiry. Just a thought for you to consider, the Liberals have been proven in the past to do most of their work under the table(brown envelope, please) or behind closed doors, (CSL, and other off-shore deals) and then they try and insinuate that the Cons are just as bad with the Mulroney 'affair' (private payment between two business men of $300,000, doesn't even come close to an epic scandal like adscam) so they are trying to fabricate a scandal against Harper, but as someone mentioned previously Liberals are playing checkers and Harper's playing chess.

Posted by: wallyj

** Hold the presses. It may all be true. I just saw a commercial from Norwich Union that makes it look quite easy to obtain a HUGE insurance policy. No medical exam NECESSARY. Hah,Steffi is right again.:)**

Sorry, Wallyj, Read the fine print! Lots of policies available without medical exam. None of them pay on a terminal condition. = TG

Keep stretching that silly putty, Ringoboy, you're still full of s**t. Like you said, you don't know, so spare us the comments about wrong it is to bribe someone. Your allegations and theory don't pass the smell test - hearsay is not admissible evidence in criminal court. Believing something is not evidence either. No firm offer was ever made, unless you have documentation to present,nothing done to secure his vote, maybe his move to Tory caucus. In Canada, the accuser still has to prove their case, not force the other to prove their innocence. The court of public opinion is just a phrase, right. So, let the electorate decide who they think is telling the truth, and good luck, you'll need it.

We're supposed to believe the contradictory words of a dying man, second hand as well, by a woman who was not present at meeting, but not the word of people who were. Typical Grit baiting - maybe they should present a coherent vision of government, that is, if they ever get one.

What do we know - Stronach and Cadman saved the Tories from an election they weren't ready for, and can take credit for Harper now being PM.

The credit now moves to Dion, especially if he is stupid enough to force election on this one. He's now in NS, with Brison (another "bribed" one) as the keynote speaker at Grit (con)ference:

http://thechronicleherald.ca/Metro/1041354.html

Read all about their "Knockout Punch" meeting, where they have developed new policy statements like - "Stephen Harper is a mean spirited Homer Simpson in a cowboy hat, and fat too." If Harper is such a loser, then why are Grits unable/unwilling to take him to the polls this spring.

They have their issue now, right, so why don't they go for it. That's right - Canadians (IOW Liberals) don't want an election right now. I agree - why waste $350 million just to get rid of Dion. Let the Grits do it on their own nickel - or is it penny?

What a laughable, pathetic bunch. Yes Ringopuke, we're shaking in our boots.

The Tories don't have to say or do anything. It's all hearsay and allegations, plus the ridiculous claim of a million dollar insurance policy. They do want an election though.

So, who knows, perhaps they have a tape of the actual conversation with Cadman, which they can bring out to settle it all after the writ has been dropped. Given this barrel of idiots called the Liberals and their blinding hatred, I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest. As an added bonus, imagine the media backtracking.

The trap has been set?

From another forum, written by someone with more smarts than I, this summarizes quite nicely the dillemma facing Mr. Integrity:

"One thing is certain: somebody is lying, and that person is a member of the Conservative Party of Canada. Either a Conservative Party candidate is lying, or the Leader of the Conservative Party is lying, or close advisers of the Leader of the Conservative Party are lying. Kind of reminds me of another story involving payoffs that was in the news recently. Another Leader of the Conservative Party once denied receiving one red cent from a lobbyist for an aircraft manufacturer, and then accepted a two-million dollar settlement from the government that suggested he had, and then was reported to have accepted $300,000 in cash in clandestine hotel room meetings with the man whom he had claimed he barely knew, and then disputed the sum, saying that he had 'only' received $225,000 from the man. And, by the way, he continues to hang on to the two million dollars that he received for having been 'falsely accused' of receiving money from the man. And then there's the recent story that alleges that Conservative party representatives offered a financial benefit to a candidate in the last Ottawa mayoralty campaign in return for withdrawing from the race. And then there's the story about the Conservative Party nominee who was offered a benefit to withdraw his candidacy in the last Federal Election. And then there's the on-going refusal of the Prime Minister to reveal details about his campaign funding to Elections Canada. The list goes on and on. Why does the Cadman story smell funny? Probably because it's just the most recent example in a growing list of 'smelly' stories involving the CPC, lies, and proffered 'financial benefits'."

JRingo, Give it up. This is simply a list of suspected stories and no links.

Try Scamslist. [Google]. 100 Liebral scams verified from the Left leaning liberal MSM like the G & M and the National Post. = TG

JohnnyPinko,

Regardless of irrelevant comparisons, how are these alleged lies going to be proven? This is hearsay, denied by Cadman. No smoking gun. All you idiots have is an offer of a one million dollar insurance policy, which you'd have to be a moonbat to believe.

But no shortage of moonbats in your cave.

You're right about the source though, however much this person lacks for brains, he certainly has more smarts than yourself.

And what do all these stories have in common,started by liberals to smear,been investigated and none have been proven to actually have happened. Your first eleven words though are bang-on,though not necessary.

From another forum, written by someone with more smarts than I, this summarizes quite nicely the dillemma facing Mr. Integrity:

"One thing is certain: somebody is lying, and that person is a member of the Conservative Party of Canada. Either a Conservative Party candidate is lying, or the Leader of the Conservative Party is lying, or close advisers of the Leader of the Conservative Party are lying. Kind of reminds me of another story involving payoffs that was in the news recently. Another Leader of the Conservative Party once denied receiving one red cent from a lobbyist for an aircraft manufacturer, and then accepted a two-million dollar settlement from the government that suggested he had, and then was reported to have accepted $300,000 in cash in clandestine hotel room meetings with the man whom he had claimed he barely knew, and then disputed the sum, saying that he had 'only' received $225,000 from the man. And, by the way, he continues to hang on to the two million dollars that he received for having been 'falsely accused' of receiving money from the man. And then there's the recent story that alleges that Conservative party representatives offered a financial benefit to a candidate in the last Ottawa mayoralty campaign in return for withdrawing from the race. And then there's the story about the Conservative Party nominee who was offered a benefit to withdraw his candidacy in the last Federal Election. And then there's the on-going refusal of the Prime Minister to reveal details about his campaign funding to Elections Canada. The list goes on and on. Why does the Cadman story smell funny? Probably because it's just the most recent example in a growing list of 'smelly' stories involving the CPC, lies, and proffered 'financial benefits'."

Posted by: JohnnyRingo

hear hear, very well said. This looks like big trouble for the rightists.

Notice how Ringo and Conte wilfilly ignore the reams of scandalous/imcompetent/corrupt behavior of LPC, which would take a post of a million words.

And they accuse others of blind partisanship, and betray their bigotted anti "rightists" crap. As has already been pointed out, someone in the Cadman camp lied, that is indistputable. Harper talks about not knowing "details" and they assume details about a life insurance settlement. Paul Martin tried to bribe the whole country, but no problem there. A total rookie is given senior cabinet position for vote on a budget, but no problem there.

Both of you are flaming hypocrites, using conjecture, bias, and self-serving interpretations.

How come your heroes aren't forcing election. Probably because, like you, they are flaming idiots who have nothing in common with the electorate. Your so-called arguments (ooooh look, Tories are just as corrupt as Grits) are a joke. When are your heroes going to return the money they stole from Canadians, hmmm?

Turn off your broken record, you idiots.

There will be coming soon an investigation into a real scandal as opposed to the phantom Cadman story and it's called Shawinigate. It's about time that one was investigated.

Good Gawd, Johnny Ringo/Bingo/Lingo...whatever... needs to be starved out. Stop responding to his idiocies. Too many threads are being corrupted by the "dialogue" ensuing when this crap-spewing commenter shows up.

Don't feed him. Ignore him. His brand of comment is "invincible ignorance," and nothing's going to change his mind. Save your breath and Kate's bandwidth.

Agreed, bathb, but I don't like to give them the last word. Now Shawinigate rears up again and the "explosive" Cadman book has been leaked online. Can't wait for the out of context/fantasy mix on quotes, coming very soon at your local rag outlet. Meanwhile, the Grits have daned not to defeat the Tories, once again - whew that was a close one.

Harper is a stupid fat (and mean) man, but for some reason, they can't (won't?) stop him. Who would have imagined right after the last election that Tories would have passed three budgets, and enjoyed the confidence of the House courtesy of the Liberals (excuse me, who are propping them up).

Interesting QP on CTV. Jay HIll looked confident,NDP's Pat Martin looked like he would rather be elsewhere,and Placido Domingo (forgot his name) of the libs seemed unsure of much. Afterwards,the 4 member panel of 'esteemed journalists' spoke about the matter as if it was a lock,they were positively drooling,well Oliver was anyways,the rest were just getting wet.Do they not listen to their own show?... BTW,it is an offense to know of a bribe or an attempt to bribe a MP and not report it. Gee,I wonder if the former sleazy PM of Canada(not Brian)who wrote the foreword may be up before the ethics committee?

johnny ringo - no, you and your friend's assumptions aren't valid.

It isn't necessarily the case that anyone is lying, which implies intention to deceive. Mrs. Cadman might have interpreted a metaphor spoken by her husband as 'a million dollars' but that doesn't mean that, in truth, such an offer was ever made to him.

It's been pointed out that such an offer would be impossible, either as an insurance policy or from the CPC coffers.

Oh, and Mr. Mulroney was never a member of the Conservative Party of Canada. He was a member of the Progressive Conservatives; they are actually Liberals.

And, no, he didn't keep the 'two million dollars'; it was never even handed over to him; it went to his lawyers for their fees. Lawyers charge a lot.

The 300,000 was a private business deal. Unlike the public business deals made by Mr. Chretien and friends to PowerCorp etc to pay for Liberal election campaigns in quebec.

There are lots of stories about the Liberals, NDP, Bloc - and you too, Johnny Ringo. Ever hear the one about Johnny Ringo, who was apprently offered a bribe by someone to post nonsense here; the amount that changed hands was supposedly quite a lot; I heard it from two experts and two anonymous sources and also, it has to be true because that's four people.

I waas googling something else and came across a ctv heading" Mackay distances himself from Cadman affair".This implies that there is some truth to the 'scandal' and he doesn't want to be around the fallout. In actuality the story was Mackay saying he knew nothing about the 'scandal'. So typical of the ctv. Cbc,Ctv,the unofficial opposition.

shouldn't feed a troll but here goes PMSH could go on a diet, and become slim, but mr. Ringo you would still be stuck on stupid. Liberalism is a mental affliction obviously, by the way former P M Mulroney is not nor was ever a member of the conservative party. He was the leader of the PROGRESSIVE CONSERVATIVE PARTY.Please repeat 100 times twit.

Irwin Daisy, "These allegations cannot be proven"

In legal terms, they are HEARSAY amd not accepted as evidence, for all the ob vious reasons.

An investigation of Shawinigate could just get to the head of a really big serpent.

If the Liberals want to play around looking for scuttlebutt and phantom scandals we can give them something real to chew on.

Wow, sure hope Peter McKay doesn't read Small Dead Animals.

Bring on the election! Dion won't last 3 days, let alone a 35-day campaign. What's he going to campaign on? Leadership and champion of the environment? A guy who is in the Liberal gov't since 1996 (many Canadians are spun by the MSM that he's a relative newcomer), and sat silently while greenhouse gases were rising at a rate which would make it tough - if not outright impossible - for a future gov't to meet those targets. But now he's the champion of the environment.

It's time to call the election and to put this guy on his shelf.

The aleged bribe of a $1,000,000.00 Life Insurance Policy wasn't mentioned in 2006, wasn't mentioned in 2006, wasn't mentioned in 2007, because it simply did not happen. It is mentioned now, on the eve of a book introduction, not so much to sell books, but to help the Libs any way they can, and in the way they know best by having the MSM manufacture inuendo. Cadman's wife and daughter don't know any facts, because there are none. Read their statements. Cadman himself, denied it. End of story.

On Brian Mulroney.

I always felt uneasy about Brian. Working class myself, I felt that he had a working class background, that at least gave him an idea about real problems. His father was an electrician etc. For some years I silently inveighed against Trudeau. The figures for Canada's national debt were non-existant pre 1968. Then there was a sharp down turn. I then saw a graph in National Post. It showed the downward curve of debt even worse than under Trudeau. Only under
Prime Minister Chretien (to give him his due), did an effort suceed in straightening out the curve.

I cannot quite put my finger on it. I know that the Conservatives were reduced to two members,after he handed off to Kim Campbell. What a rotten deal the press handed Kim. An example of these so-called journalists manipulation of the voting public.

Yes, somehow Brian seemed more of a Liberal than a Conservative. I do wish the former PM well however. I know he weakened with Schreiber, but he is paying the price. The Americans have an apt saying- "sleep with dogs and wake up with fleas" or something like that.

Lol u mean sleep with dogs and wake up with johnnyringos.

Lol u mean sleep with dogs and wake up with johnnyringos.

"Wow, sure hope Peter McKay doesn't read Small Dead Animals.

your razor sharp wit has cut me to the quick...

Well folks, the Libs will have to put up or shut up because PMSH has just sued them for libel. In other words, hearsay and innuendo aren't going to cut it. They'll need evidence grade material to present at discovery or they're going down -- big time: http://www.ctv.ca/generic/WebSpecials/pdf/document2008-03-02-183001.pdf.

The facts are unknown in this case but it would seem to me that it is not reasonable to conclude that Harper did anything wrong.

1) even his opponents aren't stupid enough to think he'd do something so foolish

2) given Harper's statements, it would seem foolish to admit that his guys were talking if what they were talking about was illegal. Harper may not be your cup of tea but he isn't a moron.

3) Cadman denied any offer and since he had no motive to lie (unlike a guy trying to peddle books for profit,) it seems unlikely he would have done so (unless the deal he got was from the other side.)

4) lets look into what Cadman was paid. Perhaps the 1mm life insurance happened but his wife heard him wrong. Maybe it was the liberals who offered. It would go far in explaining his vote and subsequent statements.

5) I'm no Belinda fan but you can't say she received financial considerations when she declined her paycheque which was donated to charity. What she and Martin did was scummy, not illegal. Grewal was knifed by Martin's lackeys in the media. He had absolute proof of Liberal connivance and it was brushed off in a way that these accusations against Harper have not been - despite the lack of evidence against Harper. Media bias? I bloody think so!

6) There is a clear disconnect between what Cadman's wife said and what she is doing.

We'll see how this pans out. If it's another cheap smear by scummy liberals (and there media whores) like I think it is, my bet is that it backfires on stephie. If Harper is so stupid that he tried bribing Cadman, he isn't competent to be PM (and the chances of him doing something so out of character and below his intelligence level is slim to none.) We'll see.