This takes real courage! As I admire Kate and Kathy and others for sticking their necks out (literally) to blow the whistle on Islam. How many of us will only admit it to ourselves privately that "something is wrong with Islamic fascism". Bravo to brave politicians, clerics and netphiles who say what needs to be said.

related . . The History and Meaning of 'Palestine' and 'Palestinian'
By Michael Bussio

"From the end of the Jewish state in antiquity to the beginning of British rule, the area now designated by the name Palestine was not a country and had no frontiers, only administrative boundaries..." - Professor Bernard Lewis, Princeton University

"There is no such thing as Palestine in history, absolutely not." -- Professor Philip Hatti, Arab historian to the Anglo-American Committee of Inquiry, 1946

rtr @ http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/02/the_history_and_meaning_of_pal.html

I wish there was a politician in Canada who would state the obyious as this man has done. Of course the 'religion of peace' wants to kill him for speaking out. My favourite line "the idealogy of a retarded culture".

So far as I can tell, Islam is a recipe for insanity and it has approximately 1.3 billion subscribers.

Get it out of Canada and the West ASAP before it destroys civilization.

Having a brother with down's syndrome, I do not think it is fair using the word "retard" to describe
islamonutjobs.

Last I heard, the only "retards" involving themselves in terror were the women forced by alqaida in Iraq.

These extremist islamofreaks do not deserve the word "retard".

The only phrase that I would find acceptable to describe them would be "dead and rotten corpses, every last one of them"!

Believe it or not, I m actually rooting for this guy.

Should be interesting. Dont think it will work though. Sounds great on paper, but its a legal nightmare, especially with the whole EU angle. If the muslims are citizens de-citizenising them is more difficult than you would think.

And what of the non-practicing muslims? Ostensibly they wouldnt fall into this net.

A timely move, or the first step down the slippery road to an all out clash of civilization?

Only time will tell.

*sighs* I love that line too wallyj; it is a retarded culture and it grows more retarded by the second. For goodness sake...look at the evidence?!?!?! What is wrong with us in the west?

But noooo, we are the ones who provoke; we are the ones who stir; we are the ones who need to step back and re-evaluate our values; we are the ones who are guilty. We just need to understand and love and accept.

Oh we love alright. We love our freedom. Hear that? We, love, FREEDOM! Shout it from the hilltops! Shout it loud from the mouths of caves. We are FREE!

Doesn't matter what they say. It doesn't matter what they do. Freedom has been paid in full and it ain't going back into that pit. Freedom reigns.

We fight the battle on two fronts. Here, against a mindless, thoughtless, cultural elite who believe Freedom lives in chains; on the other, we fight a ideology that believes freedom doesn't exist.

Never mind the harassment islamic women must drudge through; never mind islam's treatment of homosexuality. "There aren't any gays in Iran! Isn't that right Mr. Amflkhadsf--however u spell it.

Islam, true islam, down to the bone, the inner being of Islam is hate. It is intolerance. It is submission without question. These examples aren't hard to find people.

Thank God for the internet. Through this medium we are able to witness these vile acts against humanity. The winds of change are blowing the veils away.

Muslims need to be freed from this retarded ideology. We've done that in the west. We have been able to find a place for religion in our lives that isn't so medieval. Religion, science, technology and so on...we are finding the balance.

What are we to do about it?

We stand. We resist. We drudge through. We fight on. We speak the truth. We offer change. We do it in love. We do it through order. We are the peacemakers. We are the peace keepers.

Western values will sustain us. Through thick and think our values outmatch theirs astronomically. Simply put, our values are better.

Live Strong. Stay Free. We Will Not Submit.

Kingstonlad,

It's meaning #2, not the first. I'm sure the Prof was not insulting, but describing.

"1. Often Offensive Affected with mental retardation.
2. Occurring or developing later than desired or expected; delayed."

“Likening the Islamic sacred text to Hitler's Mein Kampf, he wants the 'fascist Koran' outlawed in Holland”

There they go again. The Dutch still don’t get it. The Danes and Ezra need to tell them the state cannot censure, it is a slippery slope. Enforce the laws of liberty but don’t censure those that oppose or offend.

Nonsense. Mr.Wilders intent to provoke and inflame, particularly by threatening to tear the Koran apart, are indications of a man who hates both Islam and Muslims. The two are not separable.

"There is no such thing as Palestine in history, absolutely not." -- Professor Philip Hatti, Arab historian to the Anglo-American Committee of Inquiry, 1946

Joel 3:4 Yea, and what have ye to do with me, O Tyre, and Zidon, and all the coasts of Palestine? will ye render me a recompence? and if ye recompense me, swiftly and speedily will I return your recompence upon your own head;

"Believe it or not, I'm actually rooting for this guy."

Its revealing that sput-the-troll is on the same page as Mr. Wilders. Call me a crazy radical Nazi, but I think this whole Moooselem Problem would be quite handily contained by a change in welfare laws and even-handed enforcement of existing laws of assault and murder.

Call it the "fit in or f--k off" program. Get a job, follow the law, speak the language or get lost. No special treatment for "special" groups, just the same treatment for everybody.

Mr. Wilders is just one more whining pussy trying to get Big Brother to do his dirty work for him. Sput likes this, because neither of them believe in a free country. They don't want to protect themselves, they want to -be protected-. If it takes destroying a whole religion to do it, that's A-OK.

Hey Sput, you know why Hirisi Ali is going broke? Because she has to hire a guy with a gun license to protect her. Think of all the money she'd save if she could get her own f-ing gun license, eh?

Pongo. I understand the reference, and I am not insulted or offended.

Just pointing out that mentally handicapped adults are about 6 notches above islamoextremist's on the food chain.

12 notches above Lefties, KL.

In the headlong rush to preserve freedom, there are those that would protect the very institutions that are hell bent on destroying freedom.

Sorry, but that dog don't hunt. There are things that should be eliminated and Islam is one of them, unless you want to advocate for elminiation of Western culture. The two are mutually exclusive.

Pat

"Having a brother with down's syndrome, I do not think it is fair using the word "retard" to describe
islamonutjobs."

Not to be cruel but it seems to me the political correct description is NOW "mentally challenged" therefore releasing the meaning of the word "retard" for application to "islam"

Horny Toad

I would like an immediate halt to immigration from Arab countries, unless the immigrants are refugees that can prove they are persecuted by or threatened by Islamic tyrants. I have never seen an estimate of how much, say, each 100 Arab immigrants are costing us in terms of increased security costs.

There are all sorts of other countries we can take future citizens from.

Is this racist - I call it self-preservation.

Pat, "Raus Juden!" vs. "Raus Muslim!" is a difference in detail only, not in kind. One would think the Dutch of all people would realize this, but it seems not.

The problem, to put it baldly, is not Islam. I'll be the first to say they are a pack of idiots, but if you want bone stupid its hard to beat the Hindus. It ain't the reeligion.

Try this on for size. Muslim dad decides to kill daughter for not wearing the hijab, daughter shoots his ass when he tries it, end of story. Oh, and Dad pays his own medical bills and/or funeral expenses, with possible support from private Islamic charity. Or not.

That's a free country.

We don't have that, nor do the Dutch. What we have instead is daughter gets restraining order after Dad almost kills her the first time, dad gets a couple days in jail for the second attempt, five years when he finally gets it right the third time. Oops, too bad for the girlie. Dad's out in three due to crowding and back on welfare the next morning.

That's not a free country, and that's what the good Mr. Wilders wants more of. Let's death-march a few hundred thousand Muslims "back where they came from" to keep everything nice and "civilized".

We've seen this movie. It ends badly.

Pat, I would not protect any religious institution from going through a Darwinian-like transformation. But I would protect the freedom speech that will allow institutions to compete for a following; in the case of Islam it needs to decide to reform or it will extinguish itself.

Islam has to transform itself, it can’t survive in a modern economy and to allow that to happen it isn’t practical to remove the Koran from 1.3 billion people. It was the printing of the Bible in the hands of many, instead of the few, that started the Reformation and the era of Enlightenment.

Meanwhile, we need to have the self-confidence that freedom of speech applies to all, even if we are offended.

I agree with nomdeblog. Freedom of speech - in words and print - is a fundamental right and requirement in democracy.

Someone like Warren Kinsella wants to ban freedom of speech; he considers that if you 'speak hatefully', then, you'll move on to violent acts. His tactic to stop violent actions is to regress and stop 'violent speech'. Of course, this is totally illogical. After all, does he seriously think that they way to stop all violence is to censor speech?

What is needed in both Islam and the West, is MORE speech. More free speech on both sides. The West has to INSIST on freedom of speech, freedom to critique, argue, debate. It cannot buckle down to the violence of Islam's insistence on banning the use of reason, banning thought and questions, banning examination of texts, rules, beliefs, behaviour.

By the way, fred - what's your point about Palestine? What does it have to do with Islamic fascism? Did you know that there is no history of the existence of the nation of Canada before it was created by the British? Did you know that the USA didn't exist in history?

Did you know that France, Germany etc etc didn't exist in history? Bet you didn't know that. Bet you thought that, like the animals of Noah's Ark, all the nations of the world were created by God 'way back then'.

Anyone that uses the term 'retard' in a political argument diminishes themselves and the argument.
Using a couple of women with Downs Syndrome as foils just proves the evil of terrorists.

I think we have to distinguish between countries that actively have troops confronting militant Islam and countries that have not defined a military role for themselves in the conflict.

Here in the States by and large the Muslim population is well-behaved. I believe this is for two essential reasons.

One is that we are obviously the military enemy of radical Islam to every Muslim in the world. Despite what might be conciliatory language, I don't believe that any Muslim could mistake the fact that we are actively chewing up the enemy wherever we can find them.

The second is that we have a less tolerant population for bad Muslim behavior in the US. We might throw them an olive branch occasionally, but the good ol' boys will get sick of you if you want to act radical enough. And of course, this demand on the part of the population in general gets a response from law enforcement.

In the Netherlands no such military role has been defined. No Muslim has to secretly understand that their mosques are probably being monitored and that Ali Baba and his 40 thieves will be met by very painful reprisals.

So I think that if the Dutch population is to survive, somebody like this politician could be the firestarter that rallies a consensus to resist the Islamist movement. Maybe I'll send him some money.

I will also add that people who voice opinions here are frequently criticised by those calling for more tolerance. And I do regard it as a failure and cravenness on the part of our politicians that they leave it to the general population to publicly criticize radical Islam.

If politicians in the free world would address their domestic Islamic problem head-on, it would require less public criticism from us. Unfortunately, politicians are smarmy lot and it is up to us citizens to do the heavy lifting.

Greg, you also:

Have a history of assimilation. Europe does not.

You have far less entitlements and are closer to self funding them with your demographics and high productivity. This means you can afford a military, Europe cannot.

In order to make the case for War you talk about liberty and instead of attacking 1.3 billion Muslims you make the case in a positive light, you are for freedom for all people, for separation of church and state , for the equality of men and women. Therefore you don’t need to embarrass all Muslims. They get the idea of what it is you want them to assimilate to. Europe doesn’t know what it stands for, they are all Obamafied …’give appeasement a chance’ .. what would a Muslim assimilate to? A European couldn’t tell you.

You understand liberty .You would not do what this Dutch guy suggests. Your checks and balances would not let you. By understanding liberty you have a built in moral compass that allows you to recognize evil when you see it and to then muster the legislative support to go to war on it. Europe … ahhhh .. they are pretty well hopeless .. just look at their history … what a mess.

Canada stands somewhere between the US and Europe on all this. I think, I pray, we are now tilting your way.

somebody like this politician could be the firestarter that rallies a consensus to resist the Islamist movement

This is an important point. While I don't think I'd warm to Wilders [and sure wish he's do something with that hair] his exemplary gutsiness is what is required to get the push-back going. For this reason, while I understood Charles Johnson's concerns about the comfy relationship between so called fascist/neo-nazis and the anti-jihad movement in Europe, the threat is so serious that such alliances may be unavoidable in the real world.

One thing we should know with absolute certainty: if the anti-jihad is to win, it won't be pretty and it won't be won by a debating society. and it won't be won by a too-rigid application of personal morality to political action.

But obviously "banning" the Koran won't happen -- and Wilders probably knows this perfectly well. He's right about the comparison to Mein Kampf, which is also not banned and shouldn't be.

Paul said,

Anyone that uses the term 'retard' in a political argument diminishes themselves and the argument.
Using a couple of women with Downs Syndrome as foils just proves the evil of terrorists.

Well actually just like those two women - because of their retardated mental state - could not tell right from young and were "useful idiots" to the terrorists who wanted to cause destruction,

some leftists can not tell right from wrong and are "useful idiots" to whoever on the left is using them to destroy Western Civilization,

the striking similarity between the two is why we call them "retards"

although in the case of people with Down Syndrome we still have respect for them and would never call them that.

Why do the left scream in rage when Islam and it's practices are mocked? Yet when Jesus is depicted in a jar of piss they laugh and celebrate. I think their hatred of Christians is reaching a Utopian high, I'd like to see the left hauled before the SSS HRC and explain why they are ALLOWED to spread hatred of my religion alst the while condemning those that mock Islam.

The left are two faced racist Christian hating scum bags, hypcrites filled with self loathing for Canadian Values yet they allow other cultures to flourish here. Blame the left when an Honour Killing takes place, blame the left when a child is married off over the phone to a grown man. Blame the left for arranged marrages, for the secret practice of Sharia Law in Canada. They have no shame, because of their socialist ideals women and children will die in the name of Islam Globally and these bastards have the audacity to spread hatred of Christianity.

I admire this man, I too don't like Islam as a religion because it's a CULT. Once we reconize and admit that it isn't a religon we can start to stop the spread of it's barbaric and clannish culture.

If the Christian Religion is allowed to be mocked and held in contempt by the left so shall Islam, Hindu and all other religions. To give Islam Superior Status would be the death knowl for Canada and that is the lefts' goal. Death to our culture to be replaced by socialist ideals.

"In the Netherlands no such military role has been defined."
The Netherlands is an effective military ally in Afghanistan and they pull their weight.

Where does being Muslim separate from Islam?

Notice that Soharwardy backed off when Ezra went on the offensive. (He withdrew his complaint from the AHRC) This is an important characteristic of the Islamofascism movement If the target infidels are appeasing and non-aggressive then the "Time" is right for the rise of Islam. If the target resists and defends itself vigorously then the "Time" is not right and the fascists will back off. That is why things are so quiet in North America.
That is also why the upcoming US and Canadian elections are so important. Will we elect fighters or those who think they can negotiate.

Whether we want pacifists or fighters the choice is clear for the next election in Canada.
No country can survive standing for nothing and yielding to all comers.

In the Canada of today, politicians of a certain stripe are so hungry for power they'll sell their country for it. Now is the time, as never in our history, to put an end to that rot, slime and sleaze.
Vote buying as Chretien did with Adscam was a prime example of where that leads. The very fact that man is still appearing in our media shows they just don't get it. Instead they're trying to hang Mulroney for something unethical that did not involve losing 40 million of taxpayers dollars.

Time to wake the hell up has arrived.

Ooooh the big scary Phantom made me pee my pants.

Well I didnt pee my pants out of fear, but I nearly soiled them because I was laughing so damn hard.

"Mr. Wilders is just one more whining pussy trying to get Big Brother to do his dirty work for him."

Trying to get Big Brother to do his dirty work? He's doing his own dirty work, and he expects the state to protect him from murderers just as you expect the state to protect you from murderers. Its a Hobbes-esque understanding of the state as a guarantor of self-preservation. I m fairly certain you have never read Hobbes, or any political philosopher for that matter, but even the most liberatarian state is expected to protect its citizens. That is one of the reasons a state exists - you give up your right to kill people to live within this state and the state offers you its protection - social contract theory? The alternative being no state, but I didnt have you pegged for an anarchist.

"Sput likes this, because neither of them believe in a free country."

How free? Anarchy free? You in bed with those free-loving hippies?

"They don't want to protect themselves, they want to -be protected-. If it takes destroying a whole religion to do it, that's A-OK."

Protect myself? Ostensibly by buying a gun. I happen to belong to the line of thought that says that you need to be properly trained (and given your stance, psychologically sound) to wield a gun. Thats why we have police officers. And an army. The logical conclusion of your argument would be that we should disband the army and police and, you know, carry guns and basically relive some kind of idealized anarchist state.

"Hey Sput, you know why Hirisi Ali is going broke? Because she has to hire a guy with a gun license to protect her. Think of all the money she'd save if she could get her own f-ing gun license, eh?"

The guy with the gun license is trained. Not just trained in using guns, but trained in spotting threats and taking evasive action. You can give Ms Ali a gun, but what is she going to do with it? Shoot back? After shes been shot dead? Pre-empt the threat by shooting the would be perpetrator first? How would she know whos a threat until its too late?

I m sure she can sign up to be a security guard and get the training and gun license instead of hiring someone, but how does that put me in the wrong.

Phantom, if you re going to go on the offensive, at least think it through.

Liz J.,

"Where does being Muslim separate from Islam?"

At the exact same point where average Germans stopped being Nazis.

Phanty baby,

I just realised I missed something you said.

"If it takes destroying a whole religion to do it, that's A-OK"

Nobody's talking about destroying a religion. Its more a case of establishing that the country had a few ground rules before the immigrants came in and that these ground rules (namely freedom of speech) will not be suspended because the immigrants, who voluntarily came in, are offended. The onus was on the immigrants to realise what the rules of the land were before they came, and to stay out if they couldnt deal with it. Once in the country they are expected to respect the rule of law within the country that has accepted them without requiring that they change anything about themself, other than accepting the freedoms of their new country, the same freedoms whihc allowed them in.

If they cant respect the law of the country that accepts them, then they should leave for a place whose laws they find more suitable to their tastes.

The problem of course arises when they are citizens because then you cant send them away. In that case they are subject to the rule of law - that is their contract with the state, and if they violate it, they will be punished for doing so. Protest peacefully, by all means, but do not resort to violence.

Nobody's deathmarching anybody anywhere. Only reminding would be murderers that they face either deportation or jail.

back in the 60's there was a somewhat famous mayor who packed a piece in her handbag at all times. wonder why ?

nomdeblog,
you articulate the American ideal more eloquently than I could, and you're obviously a lot more in touch with the mindset of the average European.

Mel N,
now that you mention it, I do remember that the Netherlands are in Afghanistan. I have a tendency to think about UN missions differently. For example, although I realize Canada is on a UN mission to Afghanistan, I always sort of think of the UN part as a cover. My supposition is that Harper would have wanted to commit troups irrespective of the UN protocol. My apologies to my Dutch ancestors.

Me No Dhimmi,
what I would like to see is Wilders' movement rising in popularity and then the Dutch government being able to use them in a good cop / bad cop scenario...

"Well Abdul, the problem is we need to deport the most radical 10% of these Muslims; otherwise Wilders' party will come into power, and they want to release 1000 pit bulls into Islamic neighborhoods... We don't want to do it, you understand, because we believe in tolerance, but it's these damned Wilderites."

6 months later:
"Abdul, I hate to bother you, but if your school-age girls don't lose the hijabs, Wilders' people can probably get the vote, and they are field-testing a race of mutant killer iguanas, and we just can't let that happen. Because we believe in tolerance. So in order to protect the heroic and honorable name of Islam from these crazy SOBs the school-age girls need to lose the hijab..."

6 months later:
Etc, etc, etc, etc, etc...

It has become entirely clear to me that the ROP is not compatible with western civilization. It flourishes in backward, uneducated regions of our planet. It only gains a foothold in modern educated countries because of liberal policies that allow immigrants from the backward regions to perpetuate their backward culture in virtual ghettos. If these immigrants were not allowed to insulate their offspring from the rest of the population by being allowed to have their own schools etc., the youth would very quickly rebel and adopt western values of freedom and critical thought. This problem that we are experiencing of radical Islam in our own neighborhoods would be eliminated in a matter of a few years except for the wonders of multiculturalism.

Nomdeblog,
"Islam has to transform itself, it can’t survive in a modern economy"

The purpose of Islam is to eliminate a modern economy, to destroy commerce and communication, unless it as a slave state and then under total control by 7th century masters.

And playing the Jewish/Nazi card is beneath you. The Jews did not threaten death and enslavement to all, Islam does and on top of that Islam advocates for the slaughter of all Jews. There is no parallel and it's a very poor choice of comparisons.

Kumbaya, Give peace a chance and other meaningless nonsense in the face of a ruthless and evil enemy is not clever..and so my friend is a refusal to recognize it as evil and to stomp it out.

Cloistered atheistic enclaves that preach inclusion and understanding are the first to go. Why? Because they're easy to kill and after all is said and done, that is the bottom line.

Rant off. If anyone was offended by accidental inclusion in my rant, please accept my apologies.

Of course I understand that greater freedom of speech is necessary, I just happen to think that the cult of Islam is predicated on hate and as such has no place in a modern society and the sooner that is recognized, the sooner it will be eliminated.

sput - states exist, at least free democratic ones, to provide a context for the the exercise of citizens right's such as free speech, free elections, etc. The social contract in the US, and we like it just fine, is that we haven't surrendered the right to defend our lives when confronted with deadly force or an invasion into our homes to the state. Our second Amendment is a social contract.

And, sput, you've got your little mind tied in knots again. Gun training and licensing are a good thing, but, neither of them may be there for you when you most need it. I would think an unlicensed and untrained cop's wife has every right to use husband's gun at 3am if a menacing maniac is in her bedroom while hubby is overnight on a fishing trip.

Thats why we have police officers.

Who are too oftened followed by the coroner at the scene. 9/11 calls aren't answered in seconds, sput. Especially in isolated rural areas. Ever divide the ratio of cops on duty on any given shift versus the population of a major city? Or distances to be travel in rural areas on a 9/11 call? Try it sometime.

sorry about the above post. wrong thread.

Pat, “And playing the Jewish/Nazi card is beneath you”

I didn’t mention the word Jewish. Fascism is fascism .. be it Islamofascism or Nazism. Nazism wasn’t just about Jews, that was a mere catalyst for fascism. Islamists are similarly about fascism. Jews are a tiny part of the Islamofascists idea, we’re all infidels.

I was referring earlier to the boiling frog in the water of the 1930’s in Germany, comparing it to what we have to fight for now. Again we need to be clear about what we are and cause assimilation immigrants not multiculturalism,

I agree with your definition of what Islam wants and that won’t work. Islam will implode, as soon as we enforce our hard won Enlightenment .. separation of Church/Mosque and state and the equality of women.

To deal with this death cult we have to define ourselves more clearly, be determined and don’t let leftists ideas like the HRCs take over our country and partner with Islamofascism.

"At the exact same point when the average Germans stopped being Nazis", good answer "sput" @ 4:53pm".

It cannot be forgotten that Christianity was at its worst when it controlled the state. Christians changed Christianity as the world became smaller and society became enlightened and science flourished.

Islam is exactly where Christianity was 500 years ago. The difference is only in the size of the world and the size of the sword.

Can we afford to let Muslims slowly change their religion from the inside, or will it come down to an all-out battle for the Western world?

We've been living in the Western world for half of a millenium, the Muslims have only been here for half a century.

Regardless of how the west chooses to deal with the Muslim threat, we can't change Islam. That has to be done by those inside.

Greg in Dallas at 2:46 P.M. -- "[...]we have a less tolerant population for bad Muslim behavior in the US. We might throw them an olive branch occasionally, but the good ol' boys will get sick of you if you want to act radical enough."

With all due respect, sir, a rhetorical analogy for you to answer, brought to my attention by Glen Beck:

Dearborn, Michigan is to Hizb'Allah what Bradford, Eng. is to the Taliban.

Good comments Yukon Gold. I would only add that we can change us .. and that there is an enemy within, as dangerous as Islamofascism itself.

We must stop appeasing and we must make it darn clear that while all people are equal before the law, cultures are not equal … some should just die out. We think our culture, with one set of laws for all, is tested and we are not about to give it up. But immigrants are welcome to join us on those conditions.

So we can’t change them but we have to change us; especially the self-loathing MSM and academia whose postmodern cultural relativism is the biggest reason the Islamists aren’t imploding faster.

sput sputtered: "...he expects the state to protect him from murderers just as you expect the state to protect you from murderers."

Well that's the thing isn't it? I don't expect the state to protect me, mostly because it -can't-. Nor does the state have a duty to protect me. That one you should definitely look up, it will curl your peace lovin' hair.

My expectations are somewhat different than you think. I expect to protect myself. I expect the state to come along afterward and determine if my actions were "reasonable", and award punishment to all deserving parties.

Given the current legal environment, I fully expect that I will go to jail if I use any weapon at all to stand off one or more armed assailants. This is because it has been decided that it is "unreasonable" for anyone other than the police to use force.

Which, no surprise, is the true root of the problem.

Incidentally your comments about armed guards and Hirisi Ali reveal you know nothing whatsoever about the subject. Funny how forcefully you argue when you are completely ignorant of the issues at hand.

re: death marches, I quote from the article "...all Muslim 'criminals' stripped of Dutch citizenship and deported 'back where they came from'..." Who decides what constitutes a "criminal"? Mr. Wilders, of course. So, just how does one move 100 thousand "criminals" "back where they came from" as cheaply as possible? Cattle cars? Or should they be made to walk? Do we feed them? How much?

Yet, sput, this is your guy. You like him! And I'm the Nazi, don't forget. This is why I call you a retard. You retard!

Wilders should just animate "Mohammed's Believe It or Else" from http://islamcomicbook.com/

"he wants the 'fascist Koran' outlawed in Holland"

We don't ban books, period, this guy's a chump.

"libertarian provocateur "

Try Liberal fascist. Libertarians don't ban books.

"'Islam is not a religion, it's an ideology,...'the ideology of a retarded culture'"

No, don't say it's so... You sir, have ruined my night!

THAT's what I'm sayin' sdf. Good on ya!

Too many people missing the point. If you're going to have a free country, there will be people are going to believe in stupid things. Having people who believe stupid things is not a problem, because everybody else is free to ignore them until they go away.

Having a government that lets people from select groups break the law and intimidate through twisting the legal system, that's a problem. Having a government that turns a blind eye to violence from some but prevents the average citizen from acting in their own defense, that's a problem.

Islam is irrelevant.

Religion is a delusion.

Richard Dawkins explains all that in the book The God Delusion. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_God_Delusion) Everybody should read that book. After reading that book I went from being agnostic to atheist.

Religion (including Islam) is a defective meme that propagate itself from generation to generation like a virus.

Science and atheism is the cure that will fix Islam.

Just listened to an Old Merle Haggard tune !

"You're walking on the fightin side o' me"

Seems to be the tone here today ! Good onya ;-)

Vicp

atheist Quebecois separatist , the problem with that line of thinking is that most people who have no religious affiliation, end up feeling a little empty. Because humans are wired in such a way as to imagine what could be, what might be and they use their emotions, faith and not just reason to do this. This tilts them to the collective. The collective tilts them to some kind of ‘ism’ … let’s say Marxism.

Then the problem that you have is that Marxism starts to behave like a religion. But unlike reformed Judeo-Christianity, Marxism does not separate the church from state .. they are one and the same. Ditto Islam, where the mosque and the state are one. Hence that’s why the lefties are so willing to partner with Islam .. .for awhile at least.

Did you ever notice how the Quebec Catholic church was once dominate in political affairs, then everybody stopped going to Church and became like Quebec atheist? Then they suddenly became the most socialist Province in Canada.

Somebody should write their thesis on this.

"This tilts them to the collective. The collective tilts them to some kind of 'ism'[Quebecois collective racial identity-->ethnic nationalism]."

AQS: "Religion is a delusion" = "Religion is poison": Mao Zedong said to the Dalai Lama.

Mao Zedong, the man who put 50 million people to death in starvation and chaos, a literal hell on earth. Versus the Dalai Lama, the man who is the embodiment of peace and tolerance.

"then everybody stopped going to Church and became like Quebec atheist"

Then CHOI-FM started to change the consciousness of those around Quebec City, to the point where 3 out of 5 seats are Conservative and one of the others is Andre Arthur. Then La Bauce elected the industry -> foreign minister.

>

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jwk

by gar da pendulem she swing

"La Drapeau Rouge du communisme - atheisme -> L'Enfer Rouge du meutre par gouvernement!!"

atheist quebecois separatiste -

Richard Dawkins also wrote The Selfish Gene - a reductionist argument that reduces all adaptive and evolutionary actions and locates them solely in the gene.

This has been disproven by many biologists, who reject such a mechanical and reductionist argument and are aware that the whole organism is an 'informational process' and works with the envt. The organism isn't just a House for genes.

Richard Dawkins also tried to reduce information and cognition to 'bits' like the gene, which he called 'memes'. This is as trivial and ignorant of cognition as his genetic reductionism. Informational bits don't act like a virus.

Now, the capacity to anticipate, hope and wonder has often been symbolized as 'god'; that is, the awareness that life is larger than the individual. I'm an atheist; I don't believe in god, but, I certainly accept that life is larger than the individual. Dawkins rejects even this.

No, science and atheism won't 'cure' Islam. I suggest that you read Pope Benedict's Regensburg paper. Google it. It's on faith and reason. It's excellent - and remember, I'm an atheist.

I agree with nomdeblog. In Quebec, when the Church moved out of defining The Truth, the govt moved in. It now defines The Truth. Along with The Unions.
Quebecers still aren't acting as free individuals, free of their Big Bosses in the unions and govt.

Excusez-moi, ca devez "L'Enfer Rouge du MUERTE par gouvernement!!"

Science and atheism is the cure that will fix Islam.

So, what do you think the time frame on that will be....weeks, months, years, centuries, you know, something that Homeland Security can work with?

But, then, maybe an asteroid will destroy Mecca in the interim and Muslims will see it as the Sign of the Cure.

nomdeblog: socialism is not a bad thing in itself. The majority of advanced societies on earth are socialists to different degree. Even in a place like the USA, did you see the total cost of the last Bush federal budget: 3000 billon $. About 25% of the total economy of the USA not even counting state and municipal spending.

Again you people are are using false argumentation: Mao was against religion, Mao killed people, then religion must be bad.

There is no proof that atheism cause violence or mass killing behaviour. The opposite is not true.

no, quebecois, er..atheist quebecois separatiste, I disgree.

You state that atheism won't cause violence or mass killing behaviour, while religion will cause violence/mass killing behaviour. I'm an atheist, and I disagree with you.

It isn't the content of the belief system that causes the violence/killing - understanding the content as Belief in God/No Belief in God.

It's the sense of Rightness of A Belief, any Belief, that causes the violence/killing.

Therefore, if someone is an atheist and rejects the notion of god, but has the notion that His Political Ideology is superior to yours and ought to rule over your land ..Nothing to do with god, belief in or no belief in...

Or, belief that His People are superior, genetically, to you and yours..

Or belief that he's economically impoverished and you have a lot of good land...
Or belief that you stole his land five generations ago..
Or belief...

So, it's not the presence or absence of any belief in god.

It may come as a surprise to you, AQS, but atheism isn't inherently more Pure and Noble than a belief in god...and remember, I'm an atheist.

aqs “There is no proof that atheism cause violence or mass killing behaviour. The opposite is not true.”

Neither are true.

People cause violence.

It’s the same issue with guns .. they don’t murder people, bad people kill people. We have a Mayor (who coincidently happens to be a Marxist) and we have a lot of gang murders in Toronto .. our Mayor says it is because the guns are American and they are not registered.

Back on track … the root cause of terrorism is terrorists.

We need law and order, not some imam with a bloodline making life and death decisions about his tribe. Especially tribes now living amongst us under that glorious Librano$ voter corrupter called … multiculturalism.

We have 2 cultures in Canada and immigrants can decide if they want to be with aqs or ET and pick the appropriate language and adapt as fast as possible to Canada or being a Quebecois within the nation of Canada. Otherwise don’t come to Canada or leave.

nomdeblog:

Did you ever notice how the Quebec Catholic church was once dominate in political affairs, then everybody stopped going to Church and became like Quebec atheist? Then they suddenly became the most socialist Province in Canada.

Actually, you might notice that the geographical areas where the dominant churches are those of any denomination that are known for a greater distance between clergy and laity (RCC, Anglican, Lutheran, some Presbyterian, etc.) with less lay participation demonstrate a general political afinity for the left whereas those geographical areas where the dominant churches are those denominations that believe in the priesthood of all believers (Evangelical/Fundamental) with greater lay participation demonstrate a general political afinity for the right.

Somebody should write their thesis on this.

http://www.amazon.com/How-Should-We-Then-Live/dp/1581345364

It also follows that the adherents of Islam have a political afinity for the left.

ET, it sure is nice to hear you pounding ol' Dawkins. That guy torqued me off as an undergrad and still does to this day. Selfish gene, as if. Reductio ad nauseam.

Thanks Brent .. I added it to my Amazon “wish list”

Interestingly the recommended ‘related” book right under it was this , which I’ve read excerpts about .

While Europe Slept: How Radical Islam is Destroying the West from Within
by Bruce Bawer (Author)

Your other points indicate my hunch that there is a connection between faith and feeling you can support yourself. That the less of a hierarchy the better. That while a few atheists like ET stay grounded without an ‘ism’ most will find one and often it is an ‘ism’ that doesn’t separate the religion from the state.

Left-wing atheists tend to start thinking in the supremacy of themselves to the detriment of other people's beliefs. Marxist atheists start thinking that others are inferior because the others have status as well as different (religious) beliefs. It is then a short hop skip and jump to official indoctrination in the ideals of the new Marxist Faith as set out by the Great Leader, brainwashing, re-education camps, mass murder, and perhaps mass deportation and mass starvation for national minorities who really want to cling to their previous (religious) beliefs

--> Ukraine briefly during 1919-1923, massively during 1929-1938, again 1945-1955.

I disagree with banning books on principal. Better to have the koran out in the open where we can examine it in detail. The problem I have with Wilders and pretty much with most Europeans is they are living in cloud cuckoo land. The Dutch could arguably strip Dutch nationality from their "citizens" but I doubt they would have much luck deporting them. If, as many are now, they are born in Holland where do you propose deporting them too? Added to this the real government these days (the EU) would never allow it. The Dutch were pretty cunning when they gave nationality to refugees. Since most of the refugees had no interest in living in Holland the acquisition of a Dutch passport gave them access to anywhere in Europe, so thousands of them settled in Britain where the welfare benefits are generous. If we want to reform islam in the West I think the way to do it is to reform welfare. We really need to get our house in order on this issue.

As for Richard Dawkins. Well speaking as an atheist I personally think the man is a horse's arse.

"he wants the 'fascist Koran' outlawed in Holland"

See, only an idiot artsy baby boomer with zero technological knowledge thinks that we can ban books in 2008. Butthead. Why not ban buggy whips too while you're at it?

The very concept of a book is hugely deprecated, as we shall soon see:

"By 2010, three out of every five books published will be published at Utilizer.com...Time, New York Times, and Scientific American will be replaced by Utilizer in the next five years"

www.ulitzer.com/

"Ulitzer, Inc., which initially made the headlines with its “job descriptions from the future,” announced today that it will launch its Ulitzer “beta” site on July 4, 2008, with 5,500 authors and 600,000 original articles, published in more than 5,000 topic-specific online journals. Each journal offers up to 14 content-specific sections, written by the world’s most-respected authors, who are experts in their particular fields. All Ulitzer authors will get paid for their contributions."

Remember where you read it first.

"Islam is exactly where Christianity was 500 years ago. The difference is only in the size of the world and the size of the sword." - Yoop

This is what the uninformed claim, unfortunately. But it is absolutely false.

A statement like that is no more helpful than claiming "Islam is a religion of peace."

Islam is exactly where Islam has always been. The opposite of Christianity. The foundationally violent ideology of Islam is proven in their own trilogy, with special regards to the actions and sayings of Mohammad.

Through the so-called enlightenment, the NT was not changed, because it did not need to be. Christ's life example has remained the same as well. Neither is Christianity a political ideology.

Violence under the banner of Christianity cannot be foundationally connected to either the NT or Christ's life example. On the other hand, violence commanded and rewarded through the Islamic ideology is a direct result of the trilogy, the actions and sayings of Mo, the preaching of the same and the supremacist, political ideology institutionalized into law.

Reform in Islam is not possible without gutting much of the Quran, Hadith and Sira and ridding the ideology of its founder and political aspirations. Anything else is wishful thinking. (see reformislam.org Muslims against shariah, and others)

Banning the Quran is not helpful. It must be read and perfectly understood. Many imams fear this, insisting that it can only be understood in Arabic, thereby continuing to keep the majority of non-Arabic speaking Muslims in the dark.

Exposure and factual criticism creates questions and then apostates. Islam cannot withstand the application of reason. This is apparent when you look at how vehemently the various Islamist organisations like CAIR, MAS, CIC, etc., resist debate - repositioning it as 'Islamophobia.' They do not debate, they threaten and work overtime to close down debate.

It is also shown in the juvenile actions against the publishing of MoTunes, the Mo Teddy Bear fiasco, etc. The protests include such juvenile chants as "Death to infidels," "Behead those who insult Islam," ad nauseum.

Is this mature? Is it rational? Acceptable?

Ripped of its 'religion' veil, the very foundation of Islam is not defendable on a rational basis. Therefore it cannot stand against an informed world.

Informed western governments must enact laws that make the practice of the political aspect of Islam seditious and against the law. Same goes for the raciism, hate, violence and misogyny.

That would be a good start. Once the hand-wringing is over.

It's laughable to hear quebec separatist complaining about religous belief. The entire separatist cause was based on myth and sustained through blind, unreasoning faith. And, like many mainstream religions, its membership is decreasing.

" Scandinavian insistence on free expression, the right to provoke are what drive him,"
++

And getting the Koran outlawed.

"Properly read, the bible is the most potent force for atheism ever conceived."
Isaac Asimov

Islam is a totalitarian ideology just as Naziism was. The Koran is the islamic Mein Kampf ... or Mein Jihad, if we were to translate.

1. They both demand complete obeiscance (submission).
2. They both regard certain peoples (slavs, jews, non-mulsims or non-arians) as inferior.
3. They want world domination (liebensraum).
4. They both EXPLICITLY see *terror* as a suitable strategy.
5. They both make calls to historical victimization( 1st world war or crusades).
6. They both want restauration of an historical entity (the Reich or the Caliphate).

jwkozak91, at least you are not refering to me, a right-wing atheist :-)

Wilders has in the past advocated that "Mein Kampf" be released to the public, that there should be no bans on free speech. His point is that if "Mein Kampf" can be banned because of it's incendiary hateful ideology, so should the Koran, because it advocates many of the same ideologies as Mein Kampf.

In fact, some would say that Mein Kampf takes many of it's cues from the Koran, especially with it's hatred of Jews and Christians.

I give big kudos to Geert for calling islam what it is, A blight on human civilization. It needs to be irradicated from western civilization ASAP.

The death cult of Islam is here NOW. It’s no longer a matter of polite debate to consider politically correct ideological and cultural differences along with the delusional utopian nonsense the crazy leftists liberals have infected our societies with.
How much longer will North Americans watch European countries burn as these old societies crumble under the invasion of this fascist cult? Collapsing governments, deteriorating economies, failing social programs, and getto cultures are the increasing norm of these once great countries. The liberal attitudes have brought upon these open-minded societies daily gang rapes and murder of their women whom they profess to protect and give equal rights and opportunity. They’ve subjected their children to censored and altered educational programming, completely denying them the freedoms they themselves had enjoyed in youth - won to the death by millions of their own parents.
The debate over the prevention of this disease is long lost in our societies, we are infected like it or not and must strip away the politically correct bullshit that placed us in this societal genocide we now face.
Europe is the metaphorical crystal ball proving to us across the ocean what we have to look forward to in our future, so why not study and use it wisely?

http://www.canada.com/calgaryherald/news/theeditorialpage/story.html?id=5162d29c-ffe4-4f4a-8d25-fe5e097c0963

http://www.canada.com/calgaryherald/news/city/story.html?id=aef197b6-f9ae-4456-9944-81807363be06

Islam is at odds with our civil societies where we have laws against the Koran directives as interpreted by (radical?) Islamic clerics to brain wash and incite hatred.
If this is not the case, why are we fighting Islamic terrorism around the world?

The Muslims who come to our Western Democracies can only fit in and contribute to our countries by following our laws and way of life as free societies under the rule of law.

It's not incumbent upon us to revert to the 14th century they're stuck in, condone or tolerate brutality in the name of Islam. To live that lifestyle they must return to where it is a way of life and live their lives in suppressed isolation.
At this point they seem to be doing a bang up job eliminating each other on their own turf, it's a way of life.

We have to open our eyes to what's happening in Europe and Britain and fast.

In Ontario we have Dough Head McGuinty scrapping the Lord's Prayer in the Legislature in order to be more "inclusive". The first mouthpiece out of the gate from the Muslim "community" is the likes of "Professor" Mohamed Elmasry with support and a suggestion of what might replace the Lord's Prayer.
This is the same Elmasry who said all Jews over 18 were fair targets.

Will we sit back and let our politicians sell us out for political gain? Afraid we know the answer.

Sput,

"If the muslims are citizens de-citizenising them is more difficult than you would think."

Canada did it to Zundel and he was mostly harmless, if offensive, pathetic crank. Gemany threw him in jail after we deported him.

Islamofascists are 10,000 times as dangerous as some loser who thinks the Holocaust didn't happen because the islamofascists want to finish the holocaust - and add us to it.

I hate to quibble, but what does Pim Fortuyn's assassination have to do with radical Islam? He was killed by animal-rights activists.