If Suzuki had any credibilty it has surely vanished. Sad that so many students would applaud his irresponsible comments.

How does Rex Murphy keep his job? Slapping down the Mothercorp's chosen ones on a relatively regular basis should have him unemployed by now.

Thanks Rex, for having the courage of your convictions.

What about the voters that vote for politicians that ignore science? Especially the voters that are "ignoring science", and thereby selecting for science-ignoring politicians. Going to put them in jail as well Dr. Suzuki? That would call for a rather sizeable facility of incarceration. Camp-sized, I would say.

The disturbing thing about all this is that when Suzuki made the "jail" comment he was met with a roar of approval.
What really bothers me is not adults talking about AGW between themselves but the fact that the whole theory gets pumped down kids throats at schools as though its a fact.
Thats how you get cheering at the mention of throwing "deniers" in prison.

The sad part is the silence of Canada's media. Anyone else would have been browbeaten into some kind of apology or backtrack.

Perhaps Suzuki should be reminded (Although I'm not sure how he can forget he was there) that the government of the day (Liberal) found a way to legally uproot Japanese Canadians and put them in jail (They did call them camps though just like going on a vacation)

How did that work out for you David?

If it was wrong then to send people to jail just because they might be a threat to national security, how is it now just fine and dandy now to send politicians to jail because they might be a threat by not be doing enough to save the planet based on supposed man made global warming.

Ya! Kamps, like zee ones vee held zee little yellow peoples in during WW2.

Suzuki is such a tool!

Bravo, Rex Murphy, one of the few reasons to watch CBC.
Here in B.C., the Liberal government has jumped on the CC bandwagon with great enthusiasm, already placing extra taxes on hydro and natural gas, with more to come as they slip them in unnoticed amid the Olympic celebrations.

Carole Taylor, Minister of Finance, E-mailed me with the assurance that any new taxes for Climate Change will be offset by a reduction of other taxes, so as to be revenue neutral.

As I am naive in the extreme, I believe her!

"whole theory gets pumped down kids throats at schools as though its a fact."

Why be bothered by it, stuff like this has been happening to kids since grade school, like shoving down kids throat the Evolution theory as fact.

It never ceases to amaze me how Mr Suzuki can go off on any number of wild tangents he chooses uninterrupted and unbated. Oh, all the usual suspects are addressed, and the drive by smears, not so subtle innuendo and outright fabrications are put forward as fact. Tar Sands = death.
"He urged today's youth to speak out against politicians complicit in climate change . . ." "Complicit" is the damning word there. People are complicit only in dark and pernicious undertakings. He went on to suggest the students "look for a legal way to throw our current political leaders in jail for ignoring science," drawing rounds of cheering and applause. Rex is bang on in his commentary on Gore, Suzuki and their ilk. The favorite topics of the agrarian socialist agriculture practice's are better in Cuba somehow, rather than any modern farming practices in North America. Even though the rates of growth would not show this in any way shape or form.
I Love this paragraph
"It's worth pausing on this point. What global warming is, what portion of it is man-made, is one set of questions properly within the circle of rational inquiry we call science. What to do about it - shut down the oil sands, impose a carbon tax, sign on to Kyoto, mandate efficient light bulbs or hybrid cars - are choices within a range of public policy that have to be made outside any laboratory whatsoever. Global warming's more fulminating spokespeople are apt to finesse that great chasm between the science and the politics"

The constant themes of the anticapitalist, pro-internationalism, or the idiotic comments Suzuki has made time and again regarding Genetically modified " Franken foods" gotta love that one, global warming, climate change, the sky is falling or you fill in the blank for the latest catastrophe. Now it's throw politicians that don't agree with this nonsense ( ie. Mr Harper, Mr Bush, Mr Howard etc )in jail for their thoughts. But, donate money too me so I can further promote me. How is it this good "Dr" maintains his charitable non-profit status with CRA. He is completely and utterly political in his attacks and commentary and has been for years, yet nothing ever happens until his money source is threatened..Now the groveling will start mark my words.
The fascism Suzuki advocates... and that is exactly what it is. Fascism. Should be so repugnant to the average reader, yet it is not. It's spun as almost gospel from the new quasi deity, accepted by his followers as just the price you have to pay for a cleaner, safer, more controlled, regulated world.

I agree with Rex Murphy.If Quebecs little forays into independence were nation threatening,then shutting down the oil sands would be a fait de accomple.

Sober2nd:

How does Rex Murphy keep his job?

Expect a human rights complaint shortly. The Church of Imam Suzuki will be offended.

Tar Sands aka Oil Sands
Ever notice that when someone (usually CBC reporters) wants to say something negative about the oil sands, they call them the "Tar Sands", because that sounds just so much more nasty and dirty and scary. When there is something good to say (yes, Virginia, that actually happens) then they are just "Oil Sands".

Sober2ndThought, I've often wondered how Murphy can stand working for that organization. He's certainly seems to be the odd man out as far as MotherCorp's prevailing culture is concerned.

That would call for a rather sizeable facility of incarceration. Camp-sized, I would say.
================================
Oh, the irony!

For a politician to ignore the threat of global warming in favour of profit is tantamount to treason. Dr. Suzuki is right, lock em up if they ignore that threat. They endanger the country.
When seeking advice on climate change, I’ll take advice from the PhD over the poet any day.

Oh and for people like "Talkinghead, it's not "Mr Suzuki", it's "Dr. Suzuki". Give the man the respect he has earned and deserves. Your pettiness is showing.

It is not so much the PhD, as the person with it.

Think Patrick Moore vs Suzuki.

dmorris –I met Suzuki several years ago, wimp couldn’t even give eye contact.

It’s difficult enough to support the BCLP as it is-The same name as the federal party with a lot of the same backroom boys.

Implement a carbon tax, count my vote out.

Suzuki and his crowd have clearly lost their minds. These same folk argue that taking oil from the tar sands is an ecological disaster in the making.

I mean, if the oil got there because man accidently spilled it, that would be seen as the worst manmade catastrophy in history, the Exxon Valdez to the power of God only knows what. Every environmentalist in the world would be demanding we go in and spend trillions if necessary to clean it up and return the soil to its pristene state.

But because nature is the one that put it there, we are now supposed to see it's presence as good and any attempt by man to remove it as bad. Someone help me please, I'm getting so confused.

libforlife - not all PHDs know what they are talking about - in other fields as well as their own.

Suzuki told an audience that 'the biosphere is fixed and finite; it does not grow'. Do you believe that? He's totally and completely wrong, you know.

The biosphere is not fixed and finite but dynamic; the biosphere, which is the living matter of the earth, has evolved and grown from its original simple one-celled organisms to highly complex multi-celled organisms that continue to evolve and adapt.

I didn't know that politicians were operating in a fallacious Either-Or scenario - ie, the one that you set up: Either your actions are about Global Warming OR your actions are for profit. That's invalid.

I think that politicians are, justifiably, rightly sceptical about money scams - such as organizations asserting that:
1) climate change is not natural (despite a billion years of evidence that it's natural);
2) the only cause of climate change is man
3) and specifically, western mankind; and specifically and only carbon emissions;
4) the only way to stop climate change is action by man;
5) the UN Kyoto plan will stop climate change. The UN plan is to fine Western industrial nations for emissions and send the money to China and India, who are exempt from emissions standards. China and India will built lots of polluting and emitting factories.

The UN will also get more money via a 'carbon tax'; this money will go to UN agencies that will skim off 'management fees'. The rest will go to build polluting factories in China and India.

6) The UN will try to insist that the West reduce their industrial production, and pay huge fines and carbon taxes. This will greatly harm the economy of the West.

7) Global pollution and emissions will go up and up and up..from all those factories in China and India. Built by the West.

I don't like scams. You do.
I like science. There is NO science that proves that mankind's industrialism is causing global warming. NONE. There is a lot of science that is highly sceptical of such claims. Read the posts by people involved in such work - eg Big Climate's Strange Science.

i'd rather believe scientists than political activists.

Tomax7, good example showing how the Theory of Evolution with its thousands of scientists of all disciplines following the scientific method with solid hard evidence and daily additions to fill in missing facets of the theory has become more solidified, accepted and polished over time.

While global warming/climate change is just junk science and is quickly falling apart as more scientists like Ball and Patterson are shining the hot light of reality on it and it is starting to stink.

Blazingcatfur; Oh GREAT. Now I'll get to fund BOTH sides of the HRC complaint!

Libforife; Hahahahahhahaha. Be gone pinhead troll.

Louise; I too am amazed he doesn't quit the CBC. He is the only right leaning (barely) voice in the place. He however, unlike a certain sad, well past his best-before date punk rocker, stays around to fight the good fight and to be a thorn in the side of those who do not share his views. As opposed to "quitting" because he can't stand his employers' views.

Oh that Rex. No integrity I guess.

I see libforlife has come trolling again.

Don't ecourage the jerk, people, and he'll pick up his ball &go away.

In yet another example of his usual left-wing rubbish, libforlfe trolled by and said, 'When seeking advice on climate change, I’ll take advice from the PhD over the poet any day.'

So, he takes the advice of a political activist fascist, who has a very weak PhD in zoology, in fruit flys, of all things. But, at least Suzuki is a not a poet, no, he is a totalitarian fascist.

There is zero evidence of manmade global warming; a number of Playstation games claim to show such an effect (the IPCC computer models are a prime example of Playstation science).

Hundreds of real scientists, astrophysics, paleo-geologists, meteorologists, and climate scientists say there is no evidence for manmade global warming (the global temperature for the last ten years is constant, if not cooling).

Astrophysicists have been pointing out for years that the sun is not as active or warm as it has been, that it seems to be going into a quite phase (as it regularly does). It is far more likely that the globe will be cooling than it will be warming.

et: looking at the first 4 of your points.

1) climate change is not natural (despite a billion years of evidence that it's natural);

All creditable climatologists I have read agree that there is natural climate change. Please provide something to back up your assertion.

2) the only cause of climate change is man

I do not know of one creditable climate scientist who says this. Please provide a link to back up your assertion.

3) and specifically, western mankind; and specifically and only carbon emissions;

I do not know of one creditable climate scientist who says this. Please provide a link to back up your assertion.

4) the only way to stop climate change is action by man;

I do not know of one creditable climate scientist who says this. Please provide a link to back up your assertion.

John

bob c at 12:25

You, sir, are a genius. Simply spill a thousand barrels or so of crude at each site. Then go in to clean it up. How will you know when you have it all? And if one is not certain, then the project must continue.

Thus, that nasty oil sand extraction is now a large scale environmentally friendly clean up operation, free from any and all criticism of what is happening.

Brilliant! I applaud your "outside the box" thought process!

Rex Murphy is wrong in suggesting that Suzuki is a scientist. He may have a degree in genetics but he has been in full-time showbiz and self-aggrandizement for decades. His foundation spent over a million bucks on fundraising last year.

He uses his well honed communication skills to dish out pseudo-science to innumerates.

John Cross; May I humbly suggest actually READING et's post?

Lib for life. My pettiness may be showing, please do add meaniness as well.
Dr, Suzuki for clarification's sake hasn't practiced scant bugger all for research for decades. More of a commentator on all things, quasi science and to his agenda. So there may be a degree of congruence here. He has had decades of publically funded nose in trough respect... that time is passed. He will garner no from me as he attacks all things policy related and political without throwing his hat into the same political ring.

Before the still-unproven theory of evolution was perpetrated upon humanity, scientists were content to define their work in terms of discoveries of things that are.

Since that time, political movements promoted their view that human nature could somehow be evolved.

Tens of millions of deaths of innocents during the 20th century by political scientists who adapted the theory of evolution and promoted marxist and national socialist viewpoints have clearly demonstrated it's impossible to change human nature.

What else can it be but political science to claim to know the future?

How can science, which is literally translated as knowledge, measure something that has not yet happened?

Suzuki has definitely gone over the deep end with his demonstration of intolerance of any viewpoints other than his own.

The future is always unknown to human beings. And, since all anxiety is about the future, Suzuki merely practises a type of political science which plays on the fears which reside within all human beings.

Humans will never evolve from that, no matter what Garth Turner believes about the mystical power of the state.

Libforlife @ 12:08 p.m. wrote, “For a politician to ignore the threat of global warming in favour of profit [sic: very shallow thinking] is tantamount to treason. Dr. Suzuki is right, lock em up if they ignore that threat. They endanger the country.”

Then, Libforlife (Lfl), I guess all the politicians who formed the last two Liberal Governments, especially Steffie, who was Minister of the Environment after the Liberals signed the Kyoto Accord, should now be in jail. (Although putting self-serving, hypocritical politicians in jail IS against my principles, I can’t help smiling at the prospect.)

And, considering your commitment to this issue, Lfl, what initiatives did the Liberals take to actually comply with the Kyoto requirements for the many years they had a majority, which they could have used to really get things done?

The answer, Lfl, is a BIG FAT 0.

Now, what do you think of that?

tomax7 @ 11:51 a.m. wrote,

"'whole theory [AGW] gets pumped down kids throats at schools as though its a fact.'

"Why be bothered by it, stuff like this has been happening to kids since grade school, like shoving down kids throat the Evolution theory as fact."

I can barely believe that you wrote such a thing! tomax7, this is called propaganda, and, yes, it has been going on for a very long time in our schools. Have you not noticed the precipitous decline of both reason and civility in this country, as a result?

I'm stumped at your nonchalance here. Am I missing something?

No no, that's John Cross's specialty. He loves to dissect, re-direct and evade without answering.

If you actually do manage to get something he can't mis-direct or evade, he'll tell you he'll post something either at a later time or on another forum.

Frankly, he's tiresome.

"Now, what do you think of that?"
Think? You're asking a bit much from it, aren't you Lookout.

In the year 2000, Pope John Paul II called for an "Inquisition Symposium", and opened the Vatican to 30 external historians. What they found discounted many exaggerated facts previously believed. It was learned that more women accused of witchcraft died in the Protestant countries than under the Inquisition.

For example, the Inquisition burned 59 women in Spain, 36 in Italy and 4 in Portugal, while in Europe civil justice put to trial close to 100,000 women; 50,000 of them were burned, 25,000 in Germany, during the 16th century by the followers of Martin Luther

Nobody seriously believed the Earth was flat in the 15th-17th century, btw. Columbus and others simply miscalculated the circumference of the planet and figured it (China) was way too far a journey to make.

Ah, yes. The appeal to irrelevant authority - the mighty and all-knowing "PhD".

Sorry to burst some thin-skinned bubbles, but a science PhD does not signify omni-science. It means that the person has demonstrated the knowledge and ability to plan, organize, and manage a specific research project within a specfic discipline, thus contributing to the sum total of knowledge, with the assumption that the person will continue that search for knowledge. As a university is in many ways an intellectual cream separator, seeking the most able to continue accumulating knowledge, that's just fine.

One of my many problems with the IPCC is the use of the names and status of non-qualified persons (Nobel in Economics?) to support the science.

"Have you not noticed the precipitous decline of both reason and civility in this country, as a result?"

Oh, indeed we have. In fact, that decline has become a fetish, as this blog ably demonstrates.

dafs.. The Church itself didn't burn heretics; it would judge them as heretics but then, hand them over to the civil justice service to 'review' the judgment and declare and carry out the sentence. Neat sidestepping action.

I think that most popular thought was that the earth was flat, prior to the 13th-14th c. After all, without a consideration of gravity as a law, we could not explain why those 'on the other side' didn't fall off.

He loves to dissect guilty! I would have called it looking at things critically, but potato / potahto!

If you actually do manage to get something he can't mis-direct or evade, he'll tell you he'll post something either at a later time or on another forum.

In fact, if someone points an error of mine, I acknowledge it, thank the poster and then look at how it changes things. I can point to examples where I have done that on this blog, can you do the same?

In regards to posting at another time - can you provide an example.

Thanks
John

If Suzuki wants to seek to 'jail' those whom he perceives as 'ignoring science.', then he better be prepared to jail those opposed to the scientific study of group differences and their macro and micro effects upon our society.

The radical feminists aren't going to like that.

CBCpravda has a solution for everything. this stuff is commercially available at 20$ for 30ml or about 666$/liter. so we can soak up C02 emmissions for roughly a million bucks a tonne.half of that if we get a gubmint discount.

http://www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2008/02/15/tech-carbon-capture.html

do these useless journalist investigate anything at all on their quest for AGW mandated stories.

Schools have devolved into fluffy, feel-good vessels of conditioning, where you are entitled to "success" regardless of effort or ability. Perfect garden for growing uncritical voting machines.

An "Inconvenient Truth" conveniently offered up in public schools - with zero challenge to its scientific accuracy. In the local public school one of my children attends - not one whiff of skepticism, zero counterbalance. Put on your gray overalls, pick up your hammer, and get in queue. It's off to work we go. The Great Dumbing Down. Complete with fully indexed pensions for less and less real teaching. But I digress...

Dr. Suzuki deserves the criticism, for he should be welcoming opportunities to have his work scrutinized fully. Instead, he wants to use jail to demonstrate the truth of his hypotheses. Jack boots in a dusty old lab coat. I will have none of it.

What I will do is personally continue to be as frugal with resources as I can. To conserve energy, and raw materials. Yes, by being conservative with energy and resources, I derive a financial benefit, and impact the environment less and less by degree. Being conservative with resources is win-win. Being liberal with resources is bad for the planet.

multirec: checkmate--to you! Yes, a different verb would have been more accurate. (I'll try to be more careful;-)

"And, considering your commitment to this issue, Lfl, what initiatives did the Liberals take to actually comply with the Kyoto requirements for the many years they had a majority, which they could have used to really get things done?"

Well if you want that answer then all you have to do is look at what the Conservatives cancelled when they took over. Then fast forward to when they found out it was political suicide to ignore the environment, and see the things they relabelled (as well as watering down)and reinstated. Apparently the Conservatives agreed with what the Liberals had done after all. Are you going to tell me the followers of the Automaton and his isodopes were too thick to have noticed what happened there?

canadaonline.about.com/cs/homeenergyuse/a/retrofitgrants.htm

canadaonline.about.com/b/2007/01/21/energy-retrofit-program-coming-back.htm

Suzuki is a "CooCoo Clone" (probably cloned himself) and REX well he's always been "King of the Kommentators". Long live the REX!

Garry

I'd like to hear Suzuki's position on the internment of the Japanese during World War II.

Libforlife: Hahahahaha. Be gone pinhead troll.

One Newfie > 1000 Politically-Correct Journalists.

(Explanation: that's a greater-than symbol for you math-challenged leftoids)

Hey, don't forget that the upside to Suzuki's throwing non-believers in jail, is that when his 'science' is proven wrong as it soon will be, he's fair game to be thrown in jail also.

Why doesn't Suzuki the climate carpetbagger, just go and buy a sportscar or get a new squeeze, and leave the rest of us adults to work thru the problems of the world?

No, Lfl, YOU tell me. DETAILS, please, about what the Liberals actually did to implement the Kyoto Accord after signing it.

"Suzuki isn't a poet, no, he is a totalitarian fascist."

Suzuki is catered to not because of his politics or academic credentials, but because he is that most important creature in the last 30 years, the TELEVISION PERSONALITY!

Suzuki can hold the nation in thrall regarding Climate Change, and Oprah Winfrey can presume to tell a nation how to vote, for NO other reason than they are STARS!

If anyone had told me, fifty years ago, that the "masses" would one day be so gullible, I'd have said they were insane! Seems I was wrong.

A well thought out response from Dion comes to mind, "dat is not fair".
You'll have to be patient Lookout, lfl has to get that fat hamster to try and run the wheel. Momentum may take awhile.

dasfsdafsad @ 1:34 PM said
(1)"Columbus and others simply miscalculated the circumference of the planet"
(2) "and figured it (China) was way too far a journey to make."

You are correct on (1), incorrect on (2). Their distance was too short, which lead them into making the attempt.

Dr. Suzuki seems to forget that in the democratic political marketplace, The People will be supplied with a politician where there is a significant demand for representation on an issue.

As long as there is a segment of the population that rejects the Kyoto smoke and mirrors, there will be a politician arise to represent that stance.

Ergo, you can jail one politician, and another will rise up in their place. And so on.

Dr. Suzuki will therefore have to jail all of us that reject his hypotheses in order to stop the process. That is, as long as democracy prevails.

And that's the real agenda, isn't it Dr. Suzuki?

When global warming, climate change, ghg emmissions and all the other crap spouted is proven to be wrong and a scam, will Suzuki/gore willingly go to jail for their refusal to believe.
A Japanese study has just concluded that to meet all the targets of kyoto/crap, 88% of all economies must be shut down-except India-. What 88% are you involved in that would have to be shut down.

"TELEVISION PERSONALITY!" Well, it is called the idiot box; too bad that is such an accurate description of TV. And "idiot' really does apply to what and who (eg, the Fruit Fly Guy) is on TV, and to those who get their "information" from TV.

I have watched Suzuki morph from a respected scientist to a respected if controversial broadcaster to a highly political and intolerant advocate to a fascist.

Thank god there's one jester left who has the liberty to speak the truth in the Queen's court.

FIRE SUZUKI NOW CAMPAIGN

Suzuki repeatedly violates the balance requirements (variety of opinions and theories) of CBC shows on the Nature of Things.

"CBC's information programs must reflect Canada as a nation and explore the social, economic, political, cultural, and linguistic dimensions of Canadian nationhood. They do so by providing coverage of the issues and ideas of concern to Canadians and by presenting the broad range of opinion on these matters of public concern"

As a personality, Suzuki takes and advocates only fringe positions both on air and off.

CBC constantly tells Canadians how 'trusted' it is and how it meets the highest standards of journalistic integrity.

From CBC polic: "Impartiality
CBC/Radio-Canada must remain and appear to remain impartial in carrying out its responsibilities as Canada’s public broadcaster. It is essential that the CBC/Radio-Canada neither holds, nor appears to hold, a position on any matter of public concern or controversy.

To preserve the impartiality of the Corporation, employees in certain categories, either because of their public identification with the Corporation or because of their potential for influencing election-related programming, are restricted from engaging in political activity or from taking public positions on matters of public concern or controversy."

How does advocating the jailing of political opponents and the endorsement of NDP candidates (Marilyn Churley) meet any standard of journalism, let alone CBC stated ones on impartiality?

Yes, Suzuki as a current affairs personality on CBC is rquired to adhere to these policies.

It is propaganda. It is activism. It violates CBC policies. It violates the Broadcast Act.

Suzuki shouldn't be forced to backtrack, no.

CBC should be forced to fire him.

Do your part contact the CBC president (Hubert_Lacroix@cbc.ca), CBC chairman (timothy_casgrain@cbc.ca) , CBC ombudsman (ombudsman@cbc.ca) and heritage minister (Verner.J@parl.gc.ca - The Honourable Josée Verner):

The issue needs to be taken seriously by those accountable. The bias has to end - NOW!

You know, john cross, not all of us are fixated on you; we don't save your posts; often, we don't red them; we don't even think of you.

The fact is, there are some very knowledgeable people who have rebutted your comments in great detail in this blog. You don't accept what they say. That's your right; as is said, you are entitled to your opinions. They are, however, opinions, not facts. And that's what your focus is on: opinions. Not facts.

When confronted, you have three tactics. All of them are essentially hostile to debate; they divert from debate.

Your most common one is where you move into the passive/aggressive stance of reductionism, where you insist on evidential proof of each and every data bit. If this is supplied, you reject the author of this evidence, and come up with a contradiction to this 'bit'.

This is a tactic that removes a topic from debate because it focuses all attention on the bits rather than the whole. It's like analyzing the operation of a car by focusing on the tire treads.

Any piece of data in most areas is going to have multiple versions and interpretations. You try to use these multiple versions/interpretations to imply that the overall theory is invalid. People aren't interested in such miniscule reductionism and can't be bothered dealing with you. You then claim Victory because of this.

Your second tactic is indeed, to run off, and say you'll return. Sometimes you do, and move into phase one. By that time, however,the discussion has moved on and others aren' t interested in nitpicking with you.

Your third tactic is ad hominem.

You are entitled to your opinions but you present them as facts. That's unscientific.

Why don't you simply conclude that YOU believe in AGW; that YOU consider it a serious situation, and that this is your opinion. And, allow other people, who may be scientists, engineers and computer experts, to disagree with this theory - without moving into those three non-debative and diversionary tactics.

It's always fun when Libforlife types make the argument, rather than refuting it. His comments are just what Rex Murphy was talking about - totalitarian thinking where there is a correct, therefore state sanctioned, thought or idea, and anything else is, well, treason, and jail time is in order.

North Korea is celebrating the anniversary of the 1994 ascendancy of their latest "Dear Leader." Mugabe is starving his people and Venezuela is heading down that path too. All socialists, all totalitarians, all anti-capitalists (and automatons too). The fact that they're starving their people (of food and freedom) is a minor detail that should be overlooked because, well they're saving the world.

Yeah, that makes sense. My last question, when does the trial for Chretien, Martin and now Dion begin? Let's not stop there, let's arrest all those activist who stopped DDT spraying - they were wrong and therefore treasonous, right?

I know Libforlife is just trolling, but he/she should be careful what they wish for. Oh right, I forgot, only causes they agree with qualify as treason. China, India et al, go right on polluting; here is some money to build more spewing factories. Go right ahead because, well, they didn't cause the problem, as if the earth's ecosystem knows the difference. After all children, past emissions are the problem, not future ones.

Let's destroy the wealth of the Western World and export pollution to the Third World. That would be great for the environment. After all, collectivist countries deliver freedom and prosperity to their people. They don't - oh yeah that's because the evil capitalist exploited them with Coca Cola and Levis.

I don't think the Grits will be consulting Libforlife to assist with their policy planning; but then again, we can never be sure.

Hehehehehehe! Why I love
Rex Murphey. (Although he seems to have left one MSM purveyor of pap off his list.)

John Cross, may I ask what province you are licenced in as an engineer?

The most revealing of previous comments;

It may very well be Suzuki himself, who ends up in jail -- for fraud !

Lets imagine that fruit fly gets his wish. MP's from rural ridings are jailed for not voting the lapdog line. I would think this country would erupt into civil war in about a month.

Fruit fly and his insane fantasy's. What a retard!

tomax

"""""Why be bothered by it, stuff like this has been happening to kids since grade school, like shoving down kids throat the Evolution theory as fact."""""

actually I had to larn thet good stuff ma self, it's the reedickulass bible garbage that wuz shuved down ma throat, atleast the evelution makes some sense, the 7 day magicians makes NO sense!!!!!

suzie aint no scientist no more. Joke, dikhead, temporally trapped or simply old fashioned anger have replaced nifty exploration. Interesting at one time but not now.
Lutheranism was not Martys creation. basturdization of his beliefs went on for hundreds of years--Imagine! someone burning a witch in the name of Martin Luther--Hahahaha.

AGW - All poof no proof.

"Sorry to burst some thin-skinned bubbles, but a science PhD does not signify omni-science"

Oh man, is THAT an understatement.

Suzuki has coasted for years on the image of the all-knowing "scientist", whose actual credentials beggar the grasp of the unwashed masses. Why the MSM fails to call him on his lack of scientific credibility in the climate research arena is one of today's great mysteries. Suzuki hasn't "researched" anything in his own field of study in nearly 30 years, let alone in climate research, but still he feels obligated to dump his half-assed theories at every public turn. Not to mention pillorying anyone who has the temerity to disagree.

Suzuki seems to have cultivated the image of "The Professor" from Gilligan's Island, minus the actual multi-disciplined knowledge, two-dollar deck shoes and a somewhat endearing, innocent techie charm. Apart from that, an uncharted desert island would be the ideal habitat for him.

mhb23re
at gmail d0t calm

Sober2ndThought: "How does Rex Murphy keep his job? Slapping down the Mothercorp's chosen ones on a relatively regular basis should have him unemployed by now."

Rex Murphy is probably the only reason some people watch the CBC. I suspect THAT'S probably how he keeps his job: The CBC can claim that they fulfill their mandate, which is to cover issues of importance to ALL Canadians.

Suzuki is the Dr. Phil of the leftard's Religion of Globally Warming. Dr. Phil isn't a doctor nor is he licensed to practice psychiatry, Suzuki is a shrill for the left's propaganda. Think about all that lovely taxpayer's money that could be spent by the leftards as consultants. That is the only reason they are screaming, they had dreams of passing on their consulting business to their one child name Utopia. They need global warming to be true, other wise they'll have to get real jobs like we the unwashed masses do. Sadly they are running out of social experiments that give them a life time of leftard employment.

Cheer up Libs, the HRC is hearing a case by two transexuals who feel their rights were infringed upon, apparently they get nice consult jobs teaching the feebs how to be "Gender Sensitive". By golly the leftards need only to change their gender and they can embark on a lifetime of wasting the taxpayers dollars. Gender, spit, sensitivity me ARSE. Leftard Indoctornation is what it is, and we pay for it.

Apparently, even when Doctor Suzuki was, once upon a time, doing research on the sexual habits of frutiflies, if his experiments didn't result in the data he wanted, he, it seems, threw them out.

Hmmm...Even when he was a bona fida scientist, he apparently, it seems, made things up as he went along.

Surely, Murphy must be removed from the stable of commentators at Mothercorp. He makes his points with the clarity and sense of someone outside the inner circle of "established knowledge" at CBC. The proponents of AGW and Kyoto have replaced Science with Politics. Sneaky devils, no?

ET @ 12:28 PM; I would like to propose a small amendment. Between #s 3 & 4, add "climate change must be reduced, halted or reversed". Frankly, I am quite looking forward to adjusting to a slightly warmer climate, however created.

It is with great pride that I note that Rex Murphy is a native of my province. :) Read the article this morning on my flight and was left smiling for the rest of the day.

Frst off, I absolutely refuse to say anything controversial but:

"One would worry less about what other people thought about them, if they realized how seldon they do."

Don't ask me who said it, I have enough trouble just remembering it.

BTW, you do good work ET.

et: while I post opinion as well as fact you can tell the difference since I generally say when it is an opinion. I won’t waste time by asking you to back up your assertion that I have been rebutted but as always I am happy to let the record speak for itself.

However, I will supply two facts for you to consider:

1) We are responsible for the recent increase in CO2.

2) CO2 will absorb and re-emit longwave radiation.

These are facts, not opinion, in any scientific sense of the word.

John

PS, in regards to my “reductionism” – yeah, the devil is always in the details.

Yes John

Your opinions are out of whack with ET's "Facts"!

Like: there is no global warming (all those 100 Nobel Laureates are Wrong!), things are going well in Iraq, and Bush has been proven right!

Those are ET's FACTS!

And anything else is just a measly ol' bunch of opinions.

Get with the program, John!

Would Al Gore with his 30 room mansion be one of those Nobel laureates? How many of those 100 Nobel laureates know anything about climate and what influences it? Maybe some of you should read what the experts in heavier than air flight said about the airplane before it was invented,or what the explosive experts said about the A bomb while it was being developed.These were experts that were proved wrong and not some fruit fly guy that is an instant expert on anything.I'll give him this tho,he's got a Hell of a scam going but I think that he is starting to believe himself and will lose his tax status.

I am constantly amazed at how good Rex Murphy is. All his arguments are reasoned, well thought out, and full of common sense (his not an ideologue at all). I have to admit that when I first started watching him and listening to him, with the slightly weird look, the newfy accent, and the extreme vocabulary, I was just amused, but he has actually become a big force in journalism, and a lot of people listen to his well reasoned arguments - which is good news and about time. He is also a good debater. I'd like to see him go head to head with Suzuki (maybe get someone to promote it - like Vince McMahon - stick them in a ring).

Concerning the oil sands; the Alberta and Canadian governments have huge environmental checks and balances here. That land that is excavated is actually put back (minus the oil) and forests, etc. are replanted. So although it is actually expensive (relatively) to pull the oil out of the sand, a major cost for oil companies is to actually put the land back the way it was.

ahh, john cross - as usual, ignoring how many times you've been rebutted and your opinions discredited by the engineers, scientists, computer experts on this blog.

No, you don't present your opinions as opinions. How about that (in)famous attempt of yours to rebutt the analysis of 'Taking By Storm', where you wrote:
"I can easily see why a second edition is necessary. There were several substantial errors in the first edition".

You were then informed by the author that there were NO 'substantial errors' in the first edition and that the reason for the second edition was the consumer demand.
Oh- and then, it turned out, despite your asseertion of your own knowledge (I can easily see) - that you hadn't even read the book. Heh. How's that for an ability to differentiate between facts and opinions?

Your two items of 1 and 2, are not relevant. There is no proof that they cause 'global warming'. Computer simulations are models; they are not proof. It is unscientific to use a model as equivalent to actual reality. Ever heard of Godel?

Now that Kinsella has resigned from the Post, and Kate and Kathy are writing for the post there is a liberal without a job.

The next logical thing to happen for media balance is for Rex Murphy to have a disagreement with the CBC and get replaced by Kinsella. This would make the world balanced and more thoughtful, right?

cconn: "I'd like to see him [Rex Murphy] go head to head with Suzuki..."

Me too. But it would never happen. Lefties never appear in a television debate with a seasoned debater on the other side. 'Against their principles.

Years ago, Face Off (with Claire Hoy on the Right and Judy Rebick on the Left--well, where else?) was having Svend Robinson on and the producers called Judy Anderson, then President of REAL Women, to appear on the other side of the same-sex argument.

The morning of the show, Judy Anderson was called by the producer and told she needn't come to the studios that night. 'Turns out, Svend Robinson wouldn't go on with her.

So, what did the producers of Face Off do? Cancel the show? Bring in someone else to face off with Svend and Judy? Nope. They put Svend on Face Off all by himself, with Rebick as "moderator" (sure).

That's when I began to call the Show Rip Off, and never watched it again.

Only in Canada, you say?

Yo - libforlife - to me Suzuki's PHD stands for "piled higher and deeper" He is basically a fraud. Rex Murphy is the perfect example of how deceptive looks can be. Here is a guy who quite conceivably could have played the banjo pickin kid in the movie Deliverance (notice the ears?) but is one of the most impressive critical thinkers in Canada today. He nails it down quite well, not only with regard to the intolerant Suzuki, but with the panic spewing Global Warmimg alarmists as a whole.

There are only two reasons that I would ever even consider watching CBC - one is hockey and the other is Rex. He's a breath of fresh air out of the cesspool that is the mothercorp.

I think what we should do is stop selling carbon fuel and electricity to commrad susuki and and not allow him to ride in aircraft for these are the reasons of climate change and stick him in some remote area of the planet namely the north pole wher he will probably quit complaining about global warming and spend most of his time fighting off polar bears!!!

Et: Thanks for bringing up the Taken by Storm thread. It gives me the opportunity to link to it again so people can read it and see what was said by whom. As always, I am happy to let the record stand. In fact at the end, there was a very good discussion between myself and Ross.

Although I am intrigued by your comment “there were NO 'substantial errors' in the first edition”. So, you feel that it is appropriate to use Celsius instead of Kelvin degrees when calculating radiation? If that is your understanding of physics then I am not surprised at your interpretation of my arguments.

However since you now seem to accept that my points 1 & 2 are indeed facts, we can take this a little further. Do you accept that absorbing longwave radiation will have several consequences, one of which will be to warm the molecule?

john cross - again, you were rebutted by the author of the book - which you hadn't read. End of story.

I didn't accept your two points; I said they were not relevant.
Your comment is interesting; it shows how you both don't read and don't understand what you read.

I said that your two points were irrelevant. I made NO comment on their validity. Yet, you wrote that my sentences:

"Your two items of 1 and 2, are not relevant. There is no proof that they cause 'global warming'."....mean: " you now seem to accept that my points 1 & 2 are indeed facts,"

Incredible. I say that your two points are irrelevant. I say that there is no proof of their causing global warming'...

and you conclude that I think that your two points are 'facts'! Incredible.

Incredible. No wonder you continue to assert that no-one rebuts you. No wonder you continue to make unverified and invalid claims.
You don't READ what people have written.
You don't UNDERSTAND what people have written.
You simply REWRITE what others have written and said, in order to live within your own fictional world.

You live in your own make-believe world, where you control all input and output. That explains why you are so reductionist (that's a basic psychological control mechanism); why you obsessivly collate your posts (control mechanism); and why you eventually turn to ad hominem.

Suzuki is a dunderhead him and his idiotic babbling i mean the only ones who still pay attenion to this wacko are the greens and the liberal left-wing news media

ET: "You live in your own make-believe world..."

Ha! Ha!

et: What a surprise! Another post that completely ignores the science and instead focuses on your opinion of me.

If you think the facts I presented are irrelevant to global warming – great – but why are they irrelevant? So you don’t think it matters if you use Celsius instead of Kelvin in Planck’s Law – good – but why doesn’t it matter. This is science and in science it does not matter if your opinion is that 2 + 2 = 5 - you must be able to present a case for it as well.

The up side of it is that if you can prove your case you will have set the physics world on its ear and will have dealt a death blow to the science of global warming.

So I will wait to see if you can back up your assertions or if you are going to distract and delay yet again.

John

No John Cross. It is you who has it all wrong. How can you sleep at night you phony imbecile. It is YOU who has to prove the case you advocate. You have come nowhere close, to use your own words, "to setting the physics world on its ear". There are many, many, many ad hominem, scientists who have authoritatively (now there is a word) and PEER reviewed, refuted the goofy (another good word) so-called science that the GW zealots advocate. Funny thing is, John, none of your leading spokespersons want to have anyting to do with an honest debate on the issue. Bring on your Suzuki's and your Gore's or your whatever to an honest debate. Trouble is, these buffoons are not scientist and having a face-to-face debate with a bonafide scientist would show them up for what they are - bonafide frauds!!!!

Time to call it a night, John.

"Bring on your Suzuki's (sic) and your Gore's (sic) or your whatever to an honest debate. Trouble is, these buffoons are not scientist (sic)..."

Just another SDA-er obviously more intelligent than the 100 Nobel Laureates who declared Global Warming to be among the greatest dangers facing humankind!

the problem with lefties is that they dont fart enough they hold them in to long and then it starts to creep up their spines and into their brains and thats where they get shitty ideas from

a different Bob: Believe it or not, I agree that it is up to the advocated of AGW to prove their case (in a scientific way). The unfortunate thing is that this requires looking at the underlying science and that is where things start to go wrong. While the advocates must present the science, the true skeptics must try to understand the science presented and then poke holes in it. If they can not poke holes, then they should move on to other aspects.

Now let me ask you a direct question! To take et's example from above. Do you think it is important that we look at the behaviour of the CO2 molecule, or do you think it is irrelevant like et does?

I will also note that I like your statement "There are many, many, many ad hominem, scientists who have [refuted].... so-called science that the GW zealots advocate" Yes, I have found that as well.

Regards,
John

I find it strange that john cross has not yet mentioned anything wrong with the science of those people who have recently jumped the IPCC ship. Surely if they are seeing something wrong with agw, then john cross MUST be able to poke holes in their arguments, yes?

Or does he just make it up as he goes along? I believe it is the latter. Otherwise he'd be providing links to articles which prove those scientists who recently jumped the IPCC ship, to be incorrect.

Or would that mean their science was wrong to begin with? Hmmmmmm.... The IPCC takes on scientist who can't get it right. That sounds more like it.

otter: Whether or not a scientist jumps ship from the IPCC is not important to me. What is important is the science they use to justify their reason for jumping ship. Can you supply any links to the papers where they lay out their reason for jumping ship.

It actually is a serious request. If someone is making an argument for jumping ship based on some scientific point then I am interested. If someone is jumping ship because of personality conflicts, then I am not interested.

Now, let me turn the question around. Do you accept any of the science related to AGW. Specifically to start with, do you accept that:
1) We are responsible for the recent rise in CO2
2) CO2 will absorb (and then re-emit) longwave radiation.

If so, then great we can go on from there. If not why not?

Regards,
John

Hey John is it not true that valcanoes release more co2 into the atmosphere than all the cars on the planet and how do you or any of your wacky scientists propose to do about that???
The problem is that you enviro wackos think that you have a soulution for every thing that goes on on this planet and if we all just stand around and hold our breath everything will just be fine.
If you really want something to worry about start thinking about how you are going to survive the next famine that will happen because we will be exausting our food supply so that you enviro wackos can run your cars with bio fuels
Now that will be a lot more to worry about

Bruce: No, it is not true that volcanoes release more CO2 than humans. One of the largest eruptions in recent years is Mt. Pinatubo. Over the weeks of its eruption it produced about the same amount of CO2 as from anthropogenic sources in 22 hours.

Regards,
John

Bruce,
I share your frustration with the repetitive patterns of damage the ignorant wackos like John Cross.

Nuts like John profess to want to save the world in an pretentious attempt to prove superiority but of course only when someone is watching.
An example of of the mess these wack jobs is Yellowstone Park which has been under the "protection" of environmentalists for decades now.
The place is an ecological disaster zone both with plant life and wildlife and is not getting better.
Another is the ban on DDT which cost 30,000,000 lives from malaria.
Egotistical idiots like this are a menace to western societies but they have proven to be genocidal mass murderers of people in the Third World.
The price of energy and food is going to sky rocket because of these ignorant *ssholes.
Yet, people like John Cross will smugly ignore the suffering of the third world and instead fret about cow farts while sipping their decaf cappuccino at a local Starbucks.