FREE EATS! Where do I line up??? :D

or they could build "Gasoline Banks" . . sure they would be popular.

Or just cut to the chase and set up "Money Banks" and hand out cash to the "needy"

We need to increase funding to the Big Screen Plasma TV Banks as well. The line ups there are atrocious.
Somebody think of the children!

Life at the Bottom: The Worldview That Makes the Underclass by Theodore Dalrymple.
Have a look.

http://www.amazon.com/Life-Bottom-Worldview-Makes-Underclass/dp/1566635055

Recently, a food bank was established at the U of Manitoba to help out the students who were unable to afford to feed themselves. Organizers were shocked by the number of students that came to the food bank. They had no idea that malnutrition and poverty were so rampant on campus.

And even now, some 30 years after I left university, the envy that filled me when I heard of this was quite palpable. Where were these food banks when I was in school? Why did no one care about the welfare of myself and other students back in the late '70's. I would have had an extra $50.00 a week for partying! That's a lot of beer. And smokes! And, uh, recreational pharmaceuticals! {Well it was then!!}

OF COURSE, the students are using the food bank regularly. It leaves more party money!

Why wouldn't it work the same way for the rest? Once you figure out how the system works, it's just a matter of using it. You'll only be embarrassed a little, the first time. After that, it's easy and fun! As an added bonus, with the huge extra demand, the volunteers will feel so much more needed and loved. So everybody wins!

The super duper food bank on Leathorne avenue in London Ontario may as well be a drive-through, like Timmy's donuts.
Enough parking space for a dozen vehicles to boot.
My contention is if one can afford to keep a vehicle on the road (license, repairs, insurance ,fuel at a buck a litre) and then drive to a food bank for free food; that person can damned well afford to buy their own grub!

I was thinking about that Sellick piece this morning before I saw this new thread. I agree with every single word and punctuation mark in her brilliant piece.

However no perfectly rational argument, so well grounded in the basic principles of economics, will sway the perpetrators of food banks.

The basic purpose of the food banks is for the socialist phalanx to fraudently manufacture evidence of market failure.

I love the idea of ammo banks for poor gun owners.

Back when I was starving and unemployed in Edmonton, the nearest foodbank was only reachable by car. This proves that people who operate foodbanks may be well meaning, but are obviously retarded.

A friend of mine fell on hard times last summer. She lives down in the southern US, so it wasn't like I could pop by with a roast or something. So instead I went online (thereby not having to expend any unneccessary cost) and bought a $100 Winn-Dixie gift card, which would be delivered right to her door within a couple of days. With it she could buy milk for her kid, healthy vegetables, and maybe a sweet treat or two - it wasn't the same goddam can of Campbell's chicken noodle that every foodbank box seems to contain.

RG

"But what about the children?" [stock reply # 34]

Yeah, I may sound like a heartless SOB but trust me when I say that even with a cart full of foodbank groceries, some kids will go hungry because there are slimeballs who will convert that into cash, boose or drugs.

"Or just cut to the chase and set up "Money Banks" and hand out cash to the "needy"

They already do. They're your federal and provincial Agricultural Departments.
If you subsidize it, they will farm.

The unions set up food banks when Brian Mulroney became Prime Minister in order to try and embarrass him and his government. They have since become part of the poverty industry and provide employment t many (you guessed it) loonie lefties who think they are making a contribution because so many people in this country are starving due to neo-con policies. They make sure their stats prove them right.

Fortunately, many people see through this charade and don’t contribute to food banks. These smart people believe in the old saying: give a man food and you feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and he will eat everyday.

"If you build it, they will come."

Exactly so. I of course am one of those callous and poor bashing conservatives who refuses to accept that 'the poor' are always victims of circumstance.

Vancouver now offers 'safe injection sites' and hands out 'crack kits' to addicts. The point is not to reduce addiction but to reduce the stigma and prevent the spread of 'disease'. We've made the Downtown East Side an enclave of empty lives by saying that addiction is devoid of moral content and thus, should not be judged. Rather, it's a lifestyle choice and therefore, as valid as any other path one might choose - and therefore, it deserves our support.

As for 'thousands of Canadians going hungry', I just don't buy it. I noted a sandwich board (no pun intended) listing the 'food banks' and free meal establishments in downtown Vancouver. The list, in rather smallish type, filled BOTH sides of the sandwich board. If anyone is going hungry, it's because they are using the resources provided by others for non-food expenditures: drugs, booze or any of a number of other 'essentials' to their lifestyle.

Now the demand is for 'affordable housing' for the poor. Build more housing without any responsibilities of investment or upkeep and I guarantee you'll soon have many more people lining up to demand still more affordable housing.

By the way, this non-compassionate conservative will be out in the cold this afternoon, shaking the bells on behalf of the Salvation Army - just as I was yesterday, too.

Crickey. This brings back memories.

Many years ago, at the suggestion of a friend, I volunteered down at the Daily Bread Food Bank in Toronto. I was young and dumb and all that and really believed that it might be a good cause.

So I gave them a call to see if they would be interested in having me do some desktop publishing for them. They said they could use that, so I went down for the sign-up and orientation.

Orientation started at "disturbing" and went down hill from there. They had the whole warehouse infrastructure thing happening, just as the NP article mentions. Even then I thought there was something wrong here -- there just seemed to be far too much infrastructure for what they were doing.

Their "order board" was the next thing that made me wonder. This was a whiteboard in the shipping area listing all of the local charities scheduled to receive food deliveries -- hospices, shelters, and the like. At first I thought the board was alphabetical -- all the AIDS hospices were listed first, ahead of places like children's and womens' shelters. I soon realised that the board was not alphabetised -- it was politicised. In Toronto Hold 'Em (Victimhood Poker), AIDS is clearly a face card.

After the tour, the volunteers were herded into an office. We were lectured on the upcoming provincial election -- we were told to vote NDP as only the NDP had a strategy to deal with poverty. Perhaps I was a little naive at the time, but I could not believe that this lame attempt at indoctrination was happening.

The last straw came when they sat us down in front of phones. We were to do some telemarketing for a poverty group of some sort. I don't recall which one -- I don't think it was for the foodbank itself, but it could have been. When I told them there was absolutely no way I would be doing cold-call telemarketing to beg for cash, I was told that they had no use for my time. The desktop publishing that I had originally signed up for? Didn't need me -- "we have someone who does that."

Just as a passing point of interest, the head honcho at the Daily Bread Food Bank at the time was Gerard Kennedy.

I was watching TV last night, a Toronto station, and an ad came on for a food bank. It stated that last year the food bank helped over 900,000 people.

There are only about 3.5 to 4 million people in the GTA, so this means 1 in four people in Toronto cannot afford food.

Is this for real? If this was true I would expect to see a 1930's era depression, hordes of people living on the streets, etc.

Someone is not telling the truth.

Locally, the need for food banks dropped from last year by between 10 and 20%.

When I was at college in Northern Ontario, I knew guys who regularly used a food bank. So they'd keep more of their allowance from Mom and Dad for the bars. Glad to see Daily Bread providing such a vital service.

I've volunteered for Winnipeg Harvest over the years...making deliveries and hucking boxes in the warehouse.
They seem to accept that it just goes with the territory that some people who don't need the help are helping themselves to the largess.

I've seen scumbags driving luxury cars and expensive SUVs accepting food hamper deliveries or making individual grocery pickups at the outlet.

By my estimation there is a good chance that about 50% of the food is wasted on abusers of the system.
One question I ask is where is the effort to identify the abuse and the abusers?

I volunteer at a casino for a charitable organization every few months. I also volunteer off and on at a Food Bank outlet run by our church. Imagine how it feels to hand out free food "for the children" to some of the same people who are blowing their entire welfare cheques at the casinos.
Oh, and one lady I know personally always take a taxi to the food bank and hauls her three "starving" youngsters in to help with the free haul. For the food bank she wears sweat pants and a ratty looking coat.

Her kids are also in on the free hot lunch program at school and dress like little hobos.

However, for the casino trips this mother drives her newer model SUV and is dressed to the nines. She often comes with her live in boyfriend who I am sure welfare does not know about.

Yup - the poverty industry needs people like her times thousands to keep THEIR jobs and load all of us down with GUILT.

So sad.

I heard from one food bank manager, on the radio, a couple of weeks ago that the food requried by food banks was changing - mores beans and rice, due to the changing ethnic immigrant clientel.

My rhetorical Q is why are immigrants using food banks?

I was only allowed into Canada if I could support myself.

Great post no guff -- no kidding!
You too Lickmuffin -- quick and dirty real world education, what? Instant erasure of years of formal "education", eh? Good on you.

For my little contribution: It seems that most years my wife and I (she mostly) end up watching another tedious Dickens "Uncle Scrooge". She always glances over at me meaningfully when Scrooge explains that he already "gives" in his very high taxes having heard the same double-jeoprady speech from me at purely random times in the year respecting no season!

Well, all I can hope is that many of you choke on your food this Christmas season. Christ did not have a triage when feeding the crowd with loaves and fishes. THAT menu sounds a lot richer than the pitiful pasta-poor food that choked nasty Jonathan Kay at his supermarket.

"One question I ask is where is the effort to identify the abuse and the abusers?"

One is not allowed to question whether a 'need' exists or not. Do do so would be to stigmatize the poor, which is definitely not PC.

I grew up in a poor family (six kids) and regretfully, my parents occasionally (but gratefully) had to accept a Christmas food hamper from our parish church. It was humiliating for my father, who did his very best in providing for us.

But that very concept of humiliation helped to raise us out of poverty, too. My parents were determined not to have to accept the charity of others and raised all of us to be independent and successful. They used their experience to elevate our own, so that we would not require others to provide for us.

Shame, humiliation and guilt, are considered 'negative values' but they do have a role in either reducing either anti-social behaviors or encouraging one to work hard, in order to elevate one's station to a point where charity can be given rather than taken.

When entering a food bank is considered as viable and normal as entering a grocery store, we have a problem.

BTW, apparently donations to the Salvation Army are down about 30% in our area. I wonder if it's because we are so used to 'the government' taking care of everyone, that we feel personal contributions are not warranted?

First rule of becoming a self-reliant adult:
If you don't have it yet... try harder.Works VERY well.

Concepts as social housing (my personal pet peeve)and food banks take away the incentive to buckle down and muster the extra effort required. When you're REALLY sick and tired of the rut you find yourself in, you will find a way (your OWN).

Can't get a Cadillac with a Kia effort, or attitude.

I havent given to the food bank for years since they were filming it once and I recognized my brothers ginormous oink of a sister in law and her two equally large sisters standing two back of the interviewee, I know they were all working and extra calories was the least of their requirements. you could have hidden a full size axe handle behind anyone of them.

The ex used the food bank for awhile, "to feed the kids".

She soon gave up. Too much starch, pasta/macaroni, canned food, versus fresh fruits/veggies.

All I can remember is the time in a supermarket and a over weight shopper in front of me with food stamps paying for at least $200.00 worth of high end products (choice steaks etc) and than she pulled out cash to pay for her high end liquor, lottery tickets and smokes. Yep -- that's what I remember. Of course I do believe there are people who genuinely benefit from food banks and government handouts, but it makes you think. Thanks for this alternative viewpoint -- well taken.

The only charity I donate to is the SPCA because unlike humans, dogs and cats have few choices and no job opportunities.

If feel no sympathy for the less motivated and no guilt for feeling as I do.

If you put up a free beer sign the line up will grow until there is no more beer. Yes, if you build it they will come. If you don't, they will have to build it themselves and that is precisely what they should be doing.

Life, when left on it's own is conservative. It even Objectivist in nature. It is survival of the fittest. Those will motivation will prosper using logic, common sense and reason.

It is no different with political venues. Conservatism continues to thrive because it is based on the values mentioned above. The Socialist system cannot (and has proved that) survive because it is based on ideals that are unsupportable (see free beer reference) unless Conservatives agree to fund it IE provide the beer.

This is so simple even a moron should be able to figure it out. I must conclude that the present Leftists are sub-moron.

Oh -- what upset me was she had on a very expensive looking fur coat to boot! The cashier looked a bit perplexed.

It's a true story.

That can be accurately applied to any welfare-style service or product. If you give it away, MORE people will line up for it, rather than purposely NOT line up for it. It's brilliantly plain to us; it confounds the hell out of those who think give-away programs should EVER be expected to shrink.

Em... if you read the rest of the story you will notice that Jesus did not say he would keep up the free meal ...they went on to work and survive. And there were people of all 'classes' in the crowd...not just the 'poor'. And He told us to love one another...suggesting Kay should choke doesn't sound too loving.Please don't preach.

Looks like a 'beer and popcorn' moment here.Wonder if Scott is reading this.

I have to agree. There are too many abuses of the 'helpful'systems that are set in place. But I wouldn't lump them all into the sme heap. For those of us who reakky want to help, there are many different ways.
Merry Christmas to you all!

Lesson #312...proofread:

'same heap'

and

'REALLY' want to help
sry

no guff: By the way, this non-compassionate conservative will be out in the cold this afternoon, shaking the bells on behalf of the Salvation Army - just as I was yesterday, too.

You realize that the SA also operates and uses food banks, don't you?

These stories remind me of a few years back when some Katrina victims were whining and complaining about the quality of relief effort... what? Oh wait, they are still here and still complaining.

The now deprecated American system of foodstamps, which is integrated into every point of sale system in the grocery segment into the US was the basis for the Electronic Benefits, and Quest rules. Most supermarket item files contain a flag indicating whether an item is eligible for purchase with food stamps, or not. That flag is also present in just about every Canadian supermarket as well, but is unused.

There were problems with paper food stamps, as there are with any palpable 'currency'. Hence the push to EBT in 2000/2001. This is like online debit - payment processors are obligated to direct the traffic. WIC (women, infants and children) benefits are redeemed at the cash register in your local supermarket against goods purchased which are eligible, and no others.

Oh, but we Canadians could never adopt such a system here! Oh no, we have to have a superior system - that one is to, well, American.

This capability sits, available, but dormant, in nearly every major point of sale system operating in the food segment in Canada - including many retailer's systems in the pharmacy segment, so any pharmacy also selling food can participate.

The gas and convenience segment, not so much. There goes the beer and popcorn I guess.

Food banks are by now sacred cows, and any one that dares to tinker with them is a mean conservative - probably a greedy selfish Christian anglo-saxon misogynist homophobic crusader racist male.

But we're talking efficiency here - which means more of the resource goes into the mouths of those that need it, instead of, ermmmm, the maws of the Poverty Industry. And after all, this follows the model of Nature, does it not, to be efficient? Isn't Nature the paragon of efficiency?

Therefore, we are advancing Green solutions, with a smaller carbon footprint.

I know there are some pople with real need and down in their luck. At one time family and neighbors took care of these people since they had first hand knowledge of the circumstances and now due to our kindness we have created a multi-generational condition of entitlement and permanent pseudo-poverty for a lot of people.

I see this a a cockroach sitution and as we all know if you clean up their source of food they will leave and relocate somewhere else.

Sounds kind of cruel but when Abe Lincoln asked ex-slave Fredrick Douglass how they would provide for the freed slaves his answer was, "Let hunger be their master." "If they are hungry they will find work and work hard."

Hey guys/gals.It's just human nature that if you can get it for free,they will come.The work ethic of our forefathers has almost totally disappered,thanks to Turdeau and other commies.You MUST make the sheeple dependant on the state,if you are to control them.And the socialists/commies know this and use it very well,to the detriment of honest people.Food banks are just another tool in their arsenal against freedom loving people.

Food Banks=Poverty Enablers

Heres a Tip that befits the season: Find someone, anyone who needs help and help them any way you can.
Lets cut the socialist victimhood poverty industry out of the equation

Em: I hate to disabuse you but, Jesus fed the crowds because they had come to hear him talk. He also said that if a man did not work he did not eat. We do no one a favor by crippling them further by taking away their dignity with free handouts. Go read a good book it is called"The Glass Castle" by Jeanette Walls. That book just might open your eyes to the street people industry.

Let's face it--we are all enablers. We give mindlessly. You want money or food?? Fine, as long as it doesn't interfere with my time. If more people would give of their time, we wouldn't have a need for food banks.

Its like putting bandaids on cancer-useless but we feel like we've contributed something but with no effort on our part.

I remember when Sue Cox of the Toronto food bank had boasted about how the demand for food rose over the years when she was in charge and "Thank God" that I was there for the growth.

Right Sue , and giving away food had nothing to do with all those people speading the news to others so the Pyramid would grow not be demand but by human greed to get something for free.

How odd that the NDP rants about child Poverty and how they go to bed and go to school hungry every day , yet the actual Facts from the Medical profession is that Canada has a obesity issue for kids.

Sounds like a Al Gore scam where he warns us about flooding and droughts at the same time.

Amazing , the Leftists tell us the Obesity in children is the first sign or Poverty and the record cold winters and seeing snow in October last year is a sign of global warming.
Watch for the shift to warn us of a Ice Age
once it gets hot out because heat is the first sign of a Ice Age.

People can be given food vouchers or certificates for grocery stores in their areas and tobacco products etc. can be exempt. It is unfortunate that people who can afford to feed themselves use food banks; poor people do exist who need a hand-up and to think that they are somehow lazy and need to get a job isn't only cruel, but couldn't be further from the truth. Many single mothers with children live below the poverty line, whilst their ex-husbands live well above the poverty line - just a reality for women.

There used to be a sense of shame associated with being poor - unfortunately, but now it seems some people have no shame at all.

Touché Joanne...well said and true in the USA. Unfortunately, using the welfare handouts enables some to abuse the system.

Ah yes, Jesus.

He had a lot to say about people who squandered finances (the parable of the talents, to name just one story) and who took and took without so much as a word of gratitude.

He also had a word or two for people who didn't listen CLOSELY to what he taught...

"There used to be a sense of shame associated with being poor - unfortunately, but now it seems some people have no shame at all."

There used to be a sense of shame associated with a lot of things, but the permissive society championed by the left has made just about anything a acceptable, worthy of subsidy by the taxpayer and worthy of protection (read suppression of dissenting opinions) by the various human rights kangaroo courts. Nowadays, the role of the state is to act as enabler for the worst in humans, so as to better control the masses.

Meh.... I'm off to the Caribbean on a GHG-spewing jet this weekend (no, I didn't buy any Gore-swindle offsets - unlike the AGW worshippers,I wasn't born yesterday ), paid for by my hard work. Fortunately, I can subsidize my own lifestyle with what is left after the government takes a cut to subsidize the lifestyle of the lazy and retarded.

I think our troops fighting the good fight in Afghanistan and their families deserve a lot more of our thoughts and time than the freeloaders at home.

Feliz Navidad and Happy New Year

This issue is actually the latest installment of an old dilemma. The solution arrived at by the 19th century liberals was:

"We cannot tell need from greed except through this way: a bar set at a level at which only the truly desperate will apply."

Doing so may sound harsh, but it eliminates the need to scotch out cheaters, abusers and those who enjoy a free ride.

Believe it or not, this system was rendered obsolete for a time by none other than the members of the Christian Left. They did so by belting out "shame! shame!" to any abuser of the system. The reason for the dropping of the poor rate and the poor house was the moral capital accumulated by the old-style Christian Left. They were the ones who had no compunctions when cracking down on welfare grafters.

Nowadays, this moral capital has largely been consumed, or dissipated. I suppose the downside was too high...

As Eliza, and others, point out poverty is now an industry in Canada. There are a whole lot of people, like Sue (above), who make their living "helping the poor."

If the poor were to become self-sufficient--horrors--there'd be a lot fewer jobs for the poverty pimps.

BTW, living in poverty has a lot to do with families that break up and the resulting single-parent families, usually fatherless.

When do you ever hear this? When do you ever hear those who say they "care" for the poor lamenting broken families?

You won't. Radical feminists think, as Gloria Steinem asserted, that "a woman without a man is like a fish without a bicylce": Who needs a man in your life, even if you have kids?

It may come as a huge surprise to a lot of post-moderns, that most kids do best with a mom and a dad, and most families don't live in poverty if there is a mom/dad/kids family.

This is the LAST message you'll hear from poverty activists and/or the NDP.

Or they could go to something more basic.

Brilliant video from Quebec.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKCRHhmHvjg

Just watching a news item from Toronto and a family who were looking for help from the food bank, etc. and having a new apartment given to them because of a fire in their former place. Camera panned to show a big 50 inch TV in the room. We seniors certainly don't have that luxury and we BUY our own food on our small pensions. Guess it is better not to work because the food banks are going to be there to feed all eventually. The biggest mistake in our society -why is it? Because people would rather have their money for other things. We had none of this in the 40's and 50's - it is totally disgraceful. Do away with Food Banks - oh no, the NDP will cry.

I was told of a variety store owner who's unbelievable stocking costs were only matched by his spectacular profits.

The moral of the story is elect Gerard Kennedy for further Liberal redundancies by which criminals profit.

The heart always bleeds red.

Or,

The leftard heart bleeds red ink.

Kinda funny when you think about it. Judas who dipped his hand into to Ministry funds wanted to sell the perfume and use the money for the poor. In response Jesus said "The poor you will alway have with you".

Being poor is not a sin it is a blessing and anyone who claims the ability to "abolish poverty" is suffering from a severe case of hubrus. We need to be wary of the demented anti poverty, social engineering being pushed as goodness incarnate.

"If you build it, they will come."

Yes, particularly after 30 years of socialist propaganda has made Victimhood a badge of honor.

I give money to the Canadian Warplane Heritage. They actually do something useful with it.

Food stamps!!!!!!!!!

I no longer give to the Food Bank...
I have seen the abuse
Not to mention doubted the numbers spewed within the industry!

I give my time at the soup kitchen.
Oh yeah...I am a Conservative
I must be lying!

The 06/07 Financials of the Daily Bread Food Bank in Toronto make for interesting reading. Since we have a Press Corps in this country who can't find a street address here are some interesting questions from a 5 minute look at the notes of the audited statements:

Why do they have $4million in cash an increase of ~$1.3million over last year? They have a $1ooK "invested" in a wind turbine co-op. The funds were donated but investing in wind power is outside of their stated mandate why did they accept it?
Why did salaries increase by $300K or 15% growth. Apparently poverty is a good business.

In addition if the press could manage to count the staff listed on the site they could note there are 53 people employed at the Daily Bread Food Bank. With all the volunteers why so many paid staff? Hey reporters this isn't rocket science just a quick look at the site raises questions.

last year the food bank helped over 900,000 people

And 10% of any population is gay. Same bad math, done by a marketing weasel to further an agenda.

Merry Christmas!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwMlW_JynQY

question I have

is poverty/victumhood a career choice, for which you can get a college degrea, or is it a comunicable disease you contract while screwing the GP (that's General Public)

Wimpy Canadian: "the food requried by food banks was changing - mores beans and rice, due to the changing ethnic immigrant clientel."

At least the immigrants use the good basic food. Our home grown food bank clientele seem to require the instant serve stuff in plastic bags and tin cans.

John West: "unlike humans, dogs and cats have few choices and no job opportunities."

You said it, John. And the cats and dogs were once part of somebody's entitlement that didn't include a commitment to long term care. That's where a good part of our donations go too.

batb:"It may come as a huge surprise to a lot of post-moderns, that most kids do best with a mom and a dad, and most families don't live in poverty if there is a mom/dad/kids family."

I hope someday that there will be more thinking about this than just us here in the choir. But even if that happens, I don't think Taliban Jackie and the rest of his cultural marxist fellow travelers will be among them.

Lori:"Brilliant video from Quebec."
It is and in the tradition of Quebecois folklore. Having some still-living ancestors in the in-law family tree who come from this tradition, it is particularly appreciated. Thanks.

Let us see,
It seems that poverty can be eliminated singularly by the unfortunate people that live in poverty.
Government, charities, do-gooders and others in the poverty industry, while well meaning, were not able in the past, are not able in the present - even if it makes them feel superior and good – and will not be able to do anything for the unfortunate in the future.
It was mentioned that food banks were created by the unions or some such to embarrass the current government some years ago. Obviously, because the reason was wrong it has degenerated into a self-perpetuating industry.
It would be interesting to see, if the food banks distributed only raw materials, would they be as popular?

"You realize that the SA also operates and uses food banks, don't you?"

Yes indeed, I know that and it's a real conundrum for me. I know that the money will be consumed by many who are not truly in need, but I enjoy shaking those bells and wishing people Merry Christmas.

Our local Salvation Army has just completed a new 'mens shelter' right downtown, just a block from where our also new convention centre is being constructed. During the construction the SA posted a big sign calling it the 'New Hope Centre', but some jerk defaced the sign in order to call it the 'No Hope Centre'.

I've paid attention and note that unlike days of yore, when the SA mostly assisted older men, largely poor and alcoholic, their 'clientele' now are largely in their late 20's, 30's and 40's - with most looking pretty healthy and bright.

We also had a 'breakfast club' for the poor that used the facilities of our local Catholic Church. They operated for 21 years and were finally asked to find new premises because of the anti-social behaviors of their 'clients'. Pissing against the church walls. Littering, particularly of needles. Profanity. Verbal Abuse. Ingratitude.

After 21 years of hosting this 'soup kitchen', the Church was accused of being 'un-Christan', lacking in compassion and with a callous disregard for the most vulnerable.

The thing I find worst about the left is their propensity to bite the hand that feeds when they're not satisfied with the handout.

"The thing I find worst about the left is their propensity to bite the hand that feeds when they're not satisfied with the handout."

For your information, most farmers vote for the right.

In Canada and the US obesity is linked to income - the lower the income the more obesity. Instead of food stamps it might make more sense to give gift certificates for personal trainers.

"It would be interesting to see, if the food banks distributed only raw materials, would they be as popular?
Posted by: Lev at December 21, 2007 11:27 PM".

EUREKA!!!

I remember a transit strike in Vancouver and the TV crew interviewed a male pensioner. He bemoaned the fact that he couldn't get the bus to his foodbank location each week. He also said I don't need the food, I've got a good pension: he just went there for some social contact and of course took home his bag of food.

I remember a transit strike in Vancouver and the TV crew interviewed a male pensioner. He bemoaned the fact that he couldn't get the bus to his foodbank location each week. He also said I don't need the food, I've got a good pension: he just went there for some social contact and of course took home his bag of food.

My husband recently volunteered to hand out christmas hampers and food bags - he came home with interesting stories of the "type" of people who were driving up in their fancy cars - even a hummer.

Of course - no one needs proof of their need - that would be against FOIP (freedom of information protection)- they can just drive up and pick up the free food and free gifts.

He also made the observation that given the population of the area the organization covers - 1 out of every 4 people came to get hampers.

My observation is that in our province, there are still people out of work, still people on welfare and still Help Wanted signs littering the streets, storefronts, neon signs,and the newspapers have columns dedicated to people looking for workers.

In our province, with few exceptions, there should be very few people on welfare - of course Bingo Halls and Casinos are big business out here.

Coincidence?

I wonder if the 900,000 allegedly served by the Toronto Food Bank system simply means that 900,000 bags of food were distributed. In other words, if I went there weekly, i would be counted 52 times.

Kate , good post.
I am the administrator of a charitable organization in a small town 15000 or so. The article you linked us to was very interesting. We have a client list of approx 500. this reflects the client list of our local provincially run welfare system. All of these people recieve enough for rent and food (if the spend it right). The reasoning that the vast majority of these people is ...depending on howmuch I can get from local churches, fuel banks, food banks etc. the more of my check I can spend on my addictions. Of the 30 or so people we interview a month, only 1 or 2 are actually "poor". The real poor don't come to us because the are truly humble and make do with what they have.

Our gov't system / foodbanks merely support addictions. This is a reality! They actually train people to become proffesional victims.

As a result our staff meetings usually produce this very conversation. Whwn we presure someone to make changes, they simply by pass what we have to offer in the way of what we offer as councilling and money managing skills. This is a small town so these suspicions are always verified by talking to people the personnally know our clients.

Every month we make changes in our policies that will sort these people out. You would not believe the effort these people put into getting the free stuff. In talking to other churches I have found out that these people will phone all these organizeationns daily!

This is a systemic problem and is result of poorly thought out and run gov't agencies that train people to abuse the system.

whoops sorry about the misspellings.

Consider also that some of the major sources of supply for food banks are those grocery stores (like Sobey's) and other food suppliers who can off-load unsold or unsaleable stock as charitable donations. They are under less pressure, then, to reduce prices in their stores.

In fact, you may recall that Sobey's sparked a controversy in the Maritimes by announcing that it would no longer put out day-old baked goods at lower prices. This was met by an angry reaction from pensioners, (followed by anti-poverty "activists", who were able to get the story into the media), Scotsmen, eccentric professors, and the like.

Oh ya I forgot to mention, if you are a addict (crack especially) you can figure all variety of ways to get money. One popular way is to get groceries from the food bank and sell them for money. One hit is about 25 dollars in this town. Christmas presents are also sold and traded. Another thing that happens is that the dealers will give a free hit to someone that they know will receive a well fare check the next day. Another thing that is done is the dealer will actually fudge the rent receipt, provide a free room and that way the addict will buy drugs directly from the land lord. Addictions are usually always in the picture of those who are professional victims.

Our firm & employees used to sponsor a family at Christmas. Only once did we ever receive a note of thanks from a sponsored family. That card stayed posted for a long time. I had commented to the social worker that, although we didn't want to know the identity of the family, after all the time, effort and money donated, it would be nice to know the family's reaction. After all, when someone gives you a gift, don't you usually say "thank you"?

One year, we even had a sponsored family member call our office complaining that she hadn't received everything she had requested! Our receptionist was sputtering with indignation.

The first year we ever sponsored a family, the organizers went berserk. They outfitted the kids with snowsuits, boots, etc., toys, groceries. When I pointed out that we were going overboard and that family was going to have a better Christmas than most of our employees could afford, I was derided as a grinch, mean, blah blah blah. Although a note from Mom describing the kids' reactions Christmas morning, would have been nice, not a peep.

Listening to radio & TV & reading the Ottawa Citizen, one gets the impression that there are thousands of families in the Ottawa area that are down and out. OTOH, I'm tempted to get in the lineup myself - after all, if they're handing out free food & gifts, why bother doing it yourself.
My annual Christmas joke to my family is that instead of going to all the bother of cooking and cleaning, let's instead all turn up at one of the charity dinners where we can be waited on and not have to do the dishes after!

In these times complete eradication of our welfare systems needs to be considered. In no way today do the demographics and attitudes of the public reflect the intent of the originators of this failed system.

The return of wasted tax dollars feeding the parasites of society should be returned to the rightful owners as full products of their labor. If the delusional left wishes to continue to buy their way into heaven, let them use their own money through private charitable donations.

This would be the first step in helping family’s work through their problems without the easy way out - on societies back. Canada should be building character not beggars though the pride of accomplishment. Far fewer single parent families would result with far less teen pregnancies.

Yes of course far less professional third world beggars would be knocking on our door as a result. What a shame?

If the mentally dysfunctional left cares to use their own families wealth to save the poor, by all means, no ones stopping you. Stay away from mine! I’ll choose when, where and with whom the product of my labors needs to be allocated!

As a result of the theft of our tax dollars through the incompetent management of our funds and the leaching of these dollars by the parasitic criminals infesting all aspects of Canadian society and abroad, Canadians should avoid all chartable donations until the system is truly overhauled or dismantled.

@Knight 99:

Please consider the possibility that you're trying to put the genie back in the bottle. Entitlement mentalities don't go away: people who have them tend to be terribly sincere when stating that they're "entitled to their entitlements."

If I'm right on this one, the result of abolishing the welfare system would be more professional beggars, not fewer. They'd just take their entitlement mentality "to the streets," as it were.

In addition, the establishment of the welfare system was sold, if not justified, as a way of keeping the "bums off the street." By this metric, it hasn't been a perfect success but it had contributed to a reduction. If you add the entitlement mentality factor, what you'll have are a bunch of people who will have absolutely no compunctions about, say, appropriating "a piece of the park" for their living space.

Furthermore, Canadians tended to be far more voluntarily generous before the welfare system was put into place. This generosity expressed itself back in the day when entitlement mentalities amongst the poor were largely absent. Now that entitlement mentalities are all over the place, us Canadians are likely to be less generous out of fear of getting suckered...yet again.

What this adds up to is that the welfare system will stay in place until the welfare circuit becomes ill-behaved enough to make a leap into the dark unknown preferable to the then-darker known. The "devil we know" has to reach the point of general insufferability before such a step would be taken.

If your questioning takes root, the most likely reform would be the conversion of the workfare requirement into a full-blown Civilian-Conservation-Corps-style system. In other words, tree-planting for food and shelter (plus a little extra.)

Daniel M. Ryan:
Your points are well made, although I don’t necessarily agree. Unfortunately/ fortunately my comments and thoughts are based on my own life experience and understanding of the system from the viewpoint of a giver not a recipient.

1) ..”trying to put the genie back in the bottle”…………

My understanding was that our welfare system was an extension of an older British welfare state system and absorbed by Canadian legislation as a matter of course? Please excuse my ignorance if this was not the case. (I’ll make a point of looking into it later).

2) ..”They'd just take their entitlement mentality "to the streets," as it were.”………….

For me this isn’t a problem because I sincerely believe that most people when faced with the prospect of getting a job or starvation tend to choose to eat. Sure some will resort to crime, but how many are resorting to crime now anyway?

3) ..”Entitlement mentalities don't go away: people who have them tend to be terribly sincere when stating that they're "entitled to their entitlements."………………

Of this I don’t doubt your point at all. But I think it’s high time to change this mentality of welfare as an entitlement by removing it entirely.

I also agree fully with some kind of work to eat program, at least give something of value to society for defending your “right to live” which in reality is really a bit of a farce if you believe in natural selection.

I don’t doubt at all that Canadian’s would be more generous with a “helping hand” if they felt those those they were helping were sincerely trying to improve their lives and the community’s health. My over all objections is aimed at the misplaced tolerance for the takers and destroyers of our societies that are overwhelming our communities without regard.

Knight 99 "My over all objections is aimed at the misplaced tolerance for the takers and destroyers of our societies that are overwhelming our communities without regard."

Do you mean the users of the system in place now?

woodcutter >
Yes……... The comment was also a little tongue and cheek stab at the broader range of assaults on our western societies and dysfunctional systems originally designed to aid the descendents of the founders from another era.
Just a wild stab at speculation: If the originators of the welfare state had a crystal ball and could see the future use of their systems as they are “abused” today, (and by whom) would they have bothered?

Once I had some uninformed opinions about all welfare types being lazy, etc. Then I became a landlord and one of my new tenants just acquired her third landlord without having moved. Watching her situation over the years was an education.

Speaking of education, she maybe had high school graduation and no real job skills when her husband disappeared leaving her with five children. Welfare was the only realistic economic option for her to provide for herself and her family.

Once the kids got old enough to be on their own she used the training grants she could get and trained as a nurse and then went to work to support herself and the one kid left at home.

Paul A>
That’s a great story and I applaud the woman you mentioned for her strength. It’s her bum of a husband I object too.
I have a brother in law who has a good union job owns five properties (homes + land) all of which he rents out with his long-term girlfriend who doesn’t work. They have adopted 3 or 4 foster children now collecting the entitlements of that, all the while making their monthly trips to the food bank. You can catch them out on the lake anytime during the summer on his jet boat that is in turn is hauled by his corvette or 4x4. In the winter after the horses are well fed, they zip around the countryside on their skidoos or Quads (whatever the day calls for). Unfortunately I only know the details today through second hand hearsay as I stopped speaking with them about 8 years ago.
My comments or objections are in no way intended to reflect on the truly needy whether mentally impaired, disabled, chronically ill or simply caught off guard………………….

Hamilton has a food bank serving some 20,000 clients.

its off upper queens I believe, going by the delicate and sensitive name of Neighbor To Neighbor.

most of the vehicles that pulled in the driveway when I was consolidating and setting up cross reference system for their database were in better shape than mine.

some people pulled in driving the popular and costly minivans. I joked with the other volunteers thats why they had to go to a food bank paying for the transportation to get there.

Knight 99 ...In our last group meeting, one of the things we talked about was the fact that if anyone receives help from us there would be conditions attached to the help. ex...must attend AA meetings, must register with addictions services, etc.etc. Do you think this would be a viable solution. The chances of dismantling the welfare system are pretty much non-existent. I would love to know the solution. Personally I think I would flat-out refuse to help the abusers, but they are very skillful at making you feel sorry for them.

Thanks for the response, knight 99. Factually, you're probably right - in fact, you're more likely to be right than I was. By "putting the genie back in the bottle," I meant that you seemed to have the hope that the associated entitlement mentalities will disappear once the welfare has gone. From what I've seen of the holders of them, that won't happen. They'll just take it elsewhere.

One possible unintended consequence would be a push towards the "open job offer" plan floated by a American neo-liberal around 1990 or so. That measure would require the government to hire anyone who shows up asking for a job, without option of refusal. Any such push would have, as a secondary demand, payment of the minimum wage or close to. Because government workers have certain (established) claims too, such a program may wind up being a de facto welfare program...with a de facto upping of the rates.

[If you're interested, the tree-planting idea wouldn't be subject to those prior claims because the tree-planting industry is: a) not unionized, and b) pays piecework rates. The unions and workers'-advocacy groups have no dog in the fight there.]

A side note: Your brother-in-law is one of those hard workers who might as well enjoy what he has earned.

Woodcutter > (apologies this is quite long – it just happens)

Again I don’t profess to be an expert on the welfare matter so in no way could offer an expert solution. My comments are made based on my own gut feelings, sensibilities and sense of fair play. That’s what makes these discussion forums a great thing in our era, allowing otherwise diverse and separated citizens to share their knowledge and viewpoints concerning issues in our mutual backyard and learn from them.

My personal belief is that the existing welfare systems throughout the western nations are failing miserably and that the quality of our lifestyle is declining at an ever-increasing rate. More and more addicts infest our societies…

*Footnote (My middle aged uncle just passed away 2 years ago from a heroin overdose, leaving behind 4 teen children after surviving on welfare his entire adult life).

…along with a systems of ghetto’s, increasing poverty and third world abuse unraveling the fabric of the US and European societies to a developing nation status. I’m not suggesting that this failure of society is welfares fault, I am suggesting that in the 50 years or so of steady decline is not at all helped by welfare but is stimulated by it. We’ve all clearly witnessed this decline - simply look at the education levels, crime rates and increasing poverty. It’s a matter of whether or not we choose accept what we see with our own eye’s or believe in the delusion that everything will sort itself out in it’s own good time.

My belief is that once these societies are gone (I mean that in the sense of helplessness) no one is going to come to anyone’s aid or have the capability if they wanted or cared to. We need to maintain our strengths as a society to have that capability, and not bury our heads in the sand as the problems grow and in the end nothing is left.

To answer your question more directly
“must attend AA meetings, must register with addictions services, etc.etc. Do you think this would be a viable solution”.

Yes of course I do. Anytime we encourage people to help themselves in order to help society whether or not it boils down to the bribery of aid - is a step in the right direction. I do not believe that any society benefits from handouts to useless parasites that grow dependant on a free ride. If we do not stand up against the enemies of our way of life we are nothing but lambs awaiting slaughter and the wolves are disguised in multiple cloaks within and outside of our society. They the wolves in any disguise take advantage of our greatest weakness – our unbridled and unconditional generosity unchecked with common sense or a common purpose of survival. We as a society have learned to live in a delusion of where we are, where the remaining world is, and who they believe we are. We’ve lost our common sense and the ability to look at reason reasonably. In a sense we’ve become our own worst enemy and will pay the greatest price in the long term.

Thanks, Knight 99

On the other hand I once had a welfare tenant with two kids while the father of the second officially lived a block or so away. He only worked enough to collect UI (it's an old story, plus I object to the re-branding as 'EI'), but between the two they had a pretty good income.

At the time my job was a union one in the BC forest industry and the union brain trust had taken us on strike to help the employers reduce an inventory surplus. We've always lived cheaply so we weren't going to starve, but cash was a bit tight. My daughter asked if I could get her a new inner tube for her bike tire and I said I probably could, but I had to think about it. Then I walked around the corner and worked like an expletive in the hot sun to put a lawn in the rental house while this guy sat on the steps sipping a cold one and his kid rode up and down the sidewalk with his new bike. I was quite discouraged that evening, but managed to buy the inner tube the next day and seventeen years of landlording contributed to us being able to retire eight years early and avoid the Canadian winters six months a year. The SK 20 below when we get back is still a bitter pill each April, but it doesn't last that long.

In the South we have worked with a few organizations that hand out food to the 'needy'. Some are more needy than others.

One weekend, last winter, near Houston, Texas I helped direct the parking of cars for an event that handed out free food and toys to about 5,000 people. Some of the people got rides there in junkers. Others came in Cadillac Escalades, but every one of them sat through a message of hope that every person needs to hear.

This week in Mexico we helped with a group to hand out over a 1,000 gift bags with a few items in them. Some of the people didn't need them, for some of them that is the only Christmas gift they will see.

On Friday we will be helping with a group that will feed chicken and beans to over 5,000 people in Matamoros, Mexico. Again, some people will show up driving SUV's and others will get the only good meal they will have all week. Every one has a need to hear the message of God's love for them and that he sent Christ to earth as a baby and then sent Him to the cross as a sacrifice to deliver each of us from our deserved punishment.

On that note I'll close with a Merry Christmas to all.

Daniel M. Ryan >

Agreed, I believe the letter above covers my thoughts on the matter. Obviously to me any kind of solution that involves capable people pulling their own weight if even a little is worth exploring.
I do think you may have misinterpreted my intentions with my brother in-law story. These are not kind or generous people, but rather selfish miserable one’s who exploit any opportunity without conscience. I’m not saying they participate in illegal activities but rather unpalatable ones such as legally abusing a system based on good intent for their own miserable gains.
In all fairness to my bother in-law who comes from a poor working class family, simply tends to go along for the ride. In reality it’s his girlfriend who pulls all the stings and who comes from a generational welfare family. Anyway………………

Merry Christmas Paul A.

Your story bares the success through trial of all that we hold dear as westerners. Good luck and continued good fortune.

Knight 99 , Thanks for the reply. I agree 100%. I am employed by my parish to serve to poor, the sick and the prisoners. As a result I had to be on the job for some 6 months before I was able to see clearly the abuses taking place. I appreciate your words as I end my days at work drained and discouraged. These bottom dwellers can smell a handout about fifty miles away. As the days go buy I become more sure that perpetuating this failing welfare system is not the answer. It may mean we need to retrain these people as some of their behaviors are so ingrained the they do not even know that there is another way. Some have learned the techniques from their parents. Pray for me as I try to figure this out on a daily bases.
Christmas Blessings to you.

Merry Christmas Woodcutter,
You and your endeavors are in our prayers…………have a good 2008.