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December 15, 2007

When Did "Asshole" Become a Race?

After an experience this summer of choosing a quiet spot to fish from near Blackstrap, only to have four Chinese speaking men come along 2 hours later, and without so much as a "hello", park their asses a mere 3 feet away and proceed to cast over my line and swing lures past my ear until we were finally forced to pack up and leave, I can only guess why.

Posted by Kate at December 15, 2007 6:35 PM
Comments

So, Kate? Are you next in being hauled before a Human Rights (sic) Commission?

It'd be just like them...

Posted by: 'been around the block at December 15, 2007 10:17 PM

There's water south of Blackstrap? Who knew!

Posted by: Joe at December 15, 2007 10:26 PM

They come from a society that is accustomed to living cheek to jowl. Tell them politely to move off and give you the room we allow each other in THIS Country. If they don't get the point throw them in the goddamn lake to make it.

Posted by: Western Canadian at December 15, 2007 10:33 PM

Kate We must learn to tolerate their "little" differences . We are here to make their lives as easy as possible regardless of what we want. I get to be "tolerate" with some asian gentlemen at my work place that cook and eat those delicate little eggs "with the blood and stuff in them". The smell could drive a fly off a shit pile. When we bitched about it we were told we had to be tolerant . Welcome to Canada "The Land Of Door Mats".

Posted by: Rob C at December 15, 2007 10:37 PM
"Racialized Canadians have been singled out as targets for hostility and resentment, and as a result have been victims of racial attacks," [the Ontario Human Rights Commission] concludes in an interim report released yesterday.

I spent a certain amount of time wondering what the hell a "racialized" Canadian is. I couldn't spend too much time thinking about it because it would have made my head explode.

I've come to the conclusion that it's a person with non-white skin, who, as Kate implies in her post, has undergone a process of "racialization." Where once they were an asshole, they've now been "racialized," and are no longer subject to the same sort of criticism that they were when they were just "a person".

Self-hating, un- or over-educated white liberals created this process and in fact have, consciously or otherwise, used it to define themselves, their purpose, and everybody around them.

It's still possible to resist it but it won't be once everybody gets so used to it that it becomes part of the background. Then we'll be screwed for good.

Posted by: Darrell at December 15, 2007 10:39 PM

I have to say that I am not on board with the mood on this issue. I work with a number of Vietnamese and Chinese individuals, and i know a number of parents from my kids school who are Asian.

I have found them uniformly polite, to the point of deference that I would not have expected or deserved. I'm sure it's not my imposing size or stellar good looks that responsible for this.

Maybe it's because I smile when i talk? I maybe just because I talk to them?

Perhaps if you don't treat people like crap before getting to know them, they will give you a smile and be happy to oblige you too.

Posted by: Lori at December 15, 2007 10:50 PM

I dunno.... back where I come from crossing someone's line is an invitation to have your canoe dumped if you're in one, or pushed into the drink if you're not.

Posted by: Karl at December 15, 2007 10:58 PM

Kate

If what you have reported is true I believe I have no option but to file a complaint with the Human Rights Commission.

A$$holes by definition are always white males between the ages of 16 and 65. We have a long history of suppressing women, gays, ethnic minorities, beating children, creating the glass ceiling, supporting big oil, being insensitive, pissing in the snow, failing to signal when we change lanes and generally just being inconsiderate dicks.

To my shock and horror I now hear that oriental men have been running around masquerading as a$$holes.

This is a grievous assault on my race, sex and culture.

A$$HOLES are always WHITE, HETERO and MALE and of the previously mentioned age range.

THERE ARE NO EXCEPTIONS!

In Canada we are the benchmark that all others can define their grievances by. As a matter of fact the whole HRC thing has been established to shame and berate us and I'm not willing to give up my place in infamy without a fight!

Syncro

Posted by: syncrodox at December 15, 2007 10:58 PM

Lori...you are correct. It is called mutual respect.
If you read Kate's post the behaviour that was discussed had nothing to do with their race.

I think this fishing story might be more about bait.

Posted by: bluetech at December 15, 2007 11:02 PM

On a number of occasions I've had Chinese people who try and butt in front of me. At Costco they push in front and say"is it OK if I go ahead" My usual response is NO,wait in line like I did" And recently I had the same situation while standing in line at an outdoor concession. A whole family of 4 tried to butt in. I don't care what their custom is.
In the past I was somewhat taken aback but then decided to hell with that.I don't care how astonshed they look they can damn well wait their turn.

Horny Toad

Posted by: Horny Toad at December 15, 2007 11:09 PM

Personally, I've never noticed that any race has a monopoly on assholes. They are very well dispersed across all races.

Nature has ensured that everyone will get their quota of them, regardless of what race they are, or where they live.

Kate - if you've only encountered 4 assholes in your life, which I seriously doubt, consider yourself very lucky. Most of us have seen a hell of a lot more.

Posted by: Neil at December 15, 2007 11:16 PM

[deleted. Tone it down. ED]

Posted by: real conservative at December 15, 2007 11:17 PM

Lori - I've sold show dogs to clients in Japan, China and Singapore. My experience in that regard was the same as yours.

This experience bordered on the bizarre. This was a quiet bank on an artificial lake. There were four people fishing, all of us a nice safe distance apart and we were the only ones fishing as far as the eye could see on that bank - probably 3/4 of a mile. These twits came along, and literally set their equipment within 3 feet of where we were all standing, and cast their lines in such a manner that it was dangerous to remain there. All of us left, rather than cause a scene - it wasn't worth it, as the sun was high in the sky anyway.

But the action was inexcusably rude, and I would add - intentional. They wanted that spot, and co-operated in driving us away.

If this is a pattern of behavior being repeated in Ontario, then yup - I wouldn't be surprised if a few of them have been treated to a cool bath.

Posted by: Kate at December 15, 2007 11:19 PM

Asian people do not fish well. They are almost child-like in thier zeal to hook 'free food'. You have to describe your space,and enforce it.I have found them to be thick-headed about spots,but they do understand,eventually.

Posted by: wallyj at December 15, 2007 11:21 PM

I was in Montreal staying at the Sheraton down town. I needed to talk to someone at the reception desk so I got in line like everyone else. I was next in line when to my right I noticed two orientals approaching and they simply went into the exit line and directly to the desk. When a receptionist was ready for the next customer she went toward the two oriental gentlemen. At that point, in my best francais (which is my first language)I brought to her attention that I was next in line and that these two gentlement had jumped the queue, she immediately left them and looked after me.

After I was looked after and about to leave I turned to these two fellows and asked them if they had any idea as to what a "queue" was. They just continued to look dumb (which I knew they weren't). I just won't take that, be it from orientals or the guy at the Tim's line-up.

Posted by: a different Bob at December 15, 2007 11:24 PM

My buddy ,who is a bit cruder than me by an inch or two,would stand up and pee. He swears by it,and it is funny,mark your territory.

Posted by: wallyj at December 15, 2007 11:28 PM

I just had to see if the "human rights commissioner Barbara Hall" was the same Barbara Hall who was mayor of Toronto in the mid nineties. Yep; and that fact says all that needs saying about this little piece of officially sanctioned hysteria rousing.

Posted by: GDW at December 15, 2007 11:34 PM

From my perspective(physician) everyone has (is)an asshole. The only variance is when and under what circumstance it is exposed. The problem, I believe, that is being raised, is an increasing number of laws that prohibit our critisizing that occurence!

Posted by: al-lea at December 15, 2007 11:39 PM

Actually, the problem is 'cultural norms'. Quite frankly, in China/Asia, the norm is to push to the front of the horde. There is no such thing as a queue, no such thing as waiting in line. The normal way to get served is to push past everyone.

That's how it's done in stores, restaurants, hotels, trains - everywhere.

Asians are extremely polite, one-to-one. It's hard, for instance, to find out a problem because they won't admit there is one.

But, the norm in public spaces is to push past everyone. If someone is in the space they want, the norm is to push into that space. If you are there and stand your ground, you'll be OK; they will accept it. But the hope is that you'll leave. But - standing in line? It just doesn't exist in the Orient.

Posted by: ET at December 15, 2007 11:46 PM

Canadians have willing submitted to govt unilaterally imposing multiculturalism and favoring the immigration of asians.

Vancouver is 35% chinese, more than any of the founding races. They have started their own political party to be used whenever they think is the right time.

Tell your mp, if U feel that way, to shut down immigration. We don 't need anyone who can't speak english, has a trade and education.

This week a mob of seiks (spell) massed arround a car carrying the man to be deported who came here with false papers 4 years ago, now a quadraplegic, and has cost our med system $400,000

So, even tho the car was at the airport, Canada backed down and the deportee is still here. Canadians are wimps.

Posted by: neil thompson at December 15, 2007 11:51 PM

ET - that simply is not universally true. In Japan - yes. In Singapore and much of Malaysia - no. They police their own queues there, much as we do here. Philippines - about 50/50.

Posted by: Neil at December 15, 2007 11:52 PM

I could give a good G*D D**N what their culture is in wherever the hell it is they are from. Welcome to Canada. Learn the language, learn the customs and use them. Show some F**King respect for the country that has so graciously welcomed you.

Keep treating us like doormats and it's gonna come back to bite you in the ass. Well...unless we all herd up like sheep and do as we're told by ex-mayors of Toronto.

Posted by: johnboy at December 15, 2007 11:54 PM

There's been a serious problem out here, on the West Coast, with Asian's violating virtually every shellfish regulation on the books. Before moving out of Vancouver, I'd often see them while walking my dogs along the foreshore at Jericho, harvesting clams and oysters within a few ft. of prominent signs prohibiting collecting due to (fecal) contamination. You KNOW those gunny sacks were heading straight to some Oriental restaurant...
"We'll have the clams in blackbean sauce, and fried rice please."
I remember accounts of violence between Texas commercial fishermen and newly arrived, very aggressive, Vietnamese immigrant fishermen, at the end of the Vietnam War, off the Gulf Coast.

Posted by: DaninVan at December 16, 2007 12:04 AM

Why does this all ring a bell about Laotian deer hunters in Wisconsin?

Posted by: CMP at December 16, 2007 12:07 AM

Do you mean this one?

http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/11/22/hunters.slain/index.html

Posted by: johnboy at December 16, 2007 12:13 AM

"Racialized"?

[tongue-in-cheek on]
Well, people who are 'racialized' are, presumably, 'racialists'. Perhaps this is a sign that the neo-Nazis are realizing that the HRC tribunals can come in mighty useful if the culture swings their way.
[tongue-in-cheek off]

Posted by: Daniel M. Ryan at December 16, 2007 1:14 AM

Just be glad fishing is haram to our Muslim friends.

Catch and behead.

Posted by: BL@KBIRD at December 16, 2007 1:59 AM

This is why we carry an air horn when we fish. It isn't as painful as bear spray and yet still sends a clear message...

Posted by: Richard Evans at December 16, 2007 2:04 AM

"I get to be "tolerate" with some asian gentlemen at my work place that cook and eat those delicate little eggs "with the blood and stuff in them". The smell could drive a fly off a shit pile. When we bitched about it we were told we had to be tolerant . Welcome to Canada "The Land Of Door Mats"."

Ban food because it smells. I agree. But it might just be a slippery slope to banning everything. Except maybe water. But I dont think that was your point. Just taking a potshot at Asians because the smell of their food doesnt suit you. No racism there.

"The morons that bring us the RED Star and who read it and support what it says seem to think one of the following: either that these others are morally equivalent to us and will behave the same as us when they have taken over thus we have nothing to fear, or that they don't care what they think and realize they are taking over and they want to do their ass kissing now to ensure their survival in the long run and probably are planning their back stabbing moves against the rest of us right now to ensure their survival at any cost. What somebody needs to tell these A-HOLES, is that when you are a small minority no matter how hard you suck you are still existing at the benevolence of the majority."

Check.

"Tell your mp, if U feel that way, to shut down immigration. We don 't need anyone who can't speak english, has a trade and education."

Vive le Quebec libre?

"Just be glad fishing is haram to our Muslim friends.

Catch and behead."

How in the world did they end up here? A little gratuitous, no. Muslims bad. Always.


"Asian people do not fish well. They are almost child-like in thier zeal to hook 'free food'"

Errr. Nothing racist about that. But then again stereotypes are based on reality and the rednecks in Alabama really are incestuous, right?

I know, I know. You're just stating the 'facts', while focusing on a certain group. Reminds me of a certain German who lived 60 years ago. What will it take before you actually stand up and admit you're racist?

Posted by: t.dot.roll. at December 16, 2007 2:53 AM

"But, the norm in public spaces is to push past everyone. If someone is in the space they want, the norm is to push into that space. If you are there and stand your ground, you'll be OK; they will accept it. But the hope is that you'll leave. But - standing in line? It just doesn't exist in the Orient."

When in Rome...

Posted by: Sean at December 16, 2007 3:03 AM

I don't think this is about the actual race of person as much as it about the behavior of some racial groups who have immigrated to Canada.

They have failed to assimilate into the culture.

This puts them at a disadvantage when trying to interact with normal Canadians who see them as ... well ... assholes.

This is an easily solved problem. End the insanity of multiculturalism and insist that all new comers LEARN HOW TO GET ALONG WITH US.

However, it is still okay if they call their teddy bears Jesus.

Posted by: John West at December 16, 2007 3:11 AM

It looks like some of the boys/gals don't really care what race you are.

tinyurl.com/2hbzk9

Posted by: ural at December 16, 2007 3:34 AM

Kate wrote:

If this is a pattern of behavior being repeated in Ontario, then yup - I wouldn't be surprised if a few of them have been treated to a cool bath.

Why would anyone even speculate on the basis of this story that 'this' (i.e. a single, anecdotal experience in Saskatchewan) might be 'being repeated in Ontario'?

'Treated to a cool bath,' by the way, doesn't quite do justice to the actions reported to the OHRC, according to the preliminary report:

During the summer and fall of 2007, a number of serious incidents were reported to the authorities regarding assaults targeting Asian Canadian anglers in southern and central Ontario:

• April 27th, Georgina: A man and his 13 year old son were angling on Malone Avenue when they were approached by two men, who pushed the son into the water. A 72-year old man was also pushed, and his fishing gear damaged.

• July 22nd, Georgina: A group of anglers was approached by another group, which pushed one of the anglers into the water.

• August 5th, Georgina: A group of anglers on the Mossington Bridge was approached by a man who pushed an angler into the water.

• August 6th, Georgina: A group of people who were angling on the Mossington Bridge was approached by a man who pushed an angler into the water.

• August 18th, Georgina: A man who was angling on the Mossington Bridge was approached by two people and pushed from behind into the water.

• August 28th, Gannon’s Narrow’s Bridge: An angler was pushed into the water.

• September 15th, Westport: Three anglers were assaulted by five men on a bridge on County Road 36, and received minor injuries.

• September 16th, Georgina: Anglers on the Mossington Bridge were approached by a group of men who pushed two of the anglers into the water. In the events that ensued, one of the anglers was very seriously injured.

• September 29th, Westport: Three anglers were threatened by four males.

• September 30th, Coboconk: An angler was assaulted.

• October 25th, Hastings: Racial slurs targeting Asian Canadians were found painted under a Trent Severn Waterway bridge.

Charges have been laid in a number of these incidents.

So, we have reports of what sound like criminal assaults, including on children and old men.

At least one incident involves a report of 'very serious' injury.

The police seem to have seen fit to lay charges in 'a number of these cases.'

'Treated to a cool bath,' however, is how one Saskatchewan commentator chooses to characterize such incidents.

Posted by: Stephen at December 16, 2007 3:35 AM

When assholes are outlawed, only outlaws will have assholes.

Posted by: Vitruvius at December 16, 2007 4:05 AM

Racialized Canadians. Actually I kind of like it when the lefties use words that don't exist. It shows what Morons they are.

If memory serves, wasn't it Barbara Hall who banned the Barenaked Ladies from preforming at the T.O. city hall because their name would be offencive to women.
Course I would have banned them because the suck, but that's another story.

Posted by: Largs at December 16, 2007 5:33 AM

My own experiences are similar to ET's posting...Chinese are incredibly polite one-on-one (embarrassingly polite, at times), but in a crowd they generally act as if they are oblivious to everyone else around.

Of all the "line-butters" I've dealt with as an adult, most have been Chinese.

As an Ontarian, I have also seen many "Asians" fishing along various rivers...though I have never witnessed rude behaviour personally, I have heard the stories of how "ignorant" (for lack of a better word) the "Asian" fishermen can be...the "locals" are NOT impressed.

From my experience and assessment, this is a cultural integration problem. I suspect that if "Asian" fishermen stopped acting rudely, much of the problems would fizzle away to nothing.

Prior to obtaining Canadian citizenship, it would be helpful for all prospective citizens to be required to take mandatory "Canadian cultural sensitivity training"...similar to, but much less "in-your-face" than what Herouxville, QC, implemented.

I welcome ALL peoples to Canada...and will tolerate their ideosyncratic customs...as long as they tolerate and respect ours. THAT is what tolerance is all about...and it MUST work both ways.

Posted by: Eeyore at December 16, 2007 7:23 AM

The problem in eastern Ontario is that van loads of people show up from the Toronto area and snag female's(of different species),most of them loaded with eggs, from the sanctuaries.

Well, I do not give a damn what color your skin is, whether you are white, asian, ME'er or whatever. If we catch you snagging females out of season, there will be consequences(of course, reported as hate crimes, because lord forbid the real story of these POACHERS comes out).

Fishing in the sanctuaries, out of season, is illegal. Serious harm is being done to the environment. Since the police do not want to arrest these folks, the locals have decided to take the law into their own hands.

In our case in eastern Ontario, it has nothing to do with race, and everything to do with idiot poachers who are doing serious harm to our natural environment.

Posted by: kingstonlad at December 16, 2007 7:24 AM

BTW, my uncle has been a game warden for nearly 40 years, and if he ever caught us fishing even near a sanctuary, we would be wondering why we woke up in Kingston General Hospital.

Posted by: kingstonlad at December 16, 2007 7:30 AM

Does Bob Izumi Know about this?

Posted by: WL Mackenzie Redux at December 16, 2007 8:05 AM

I have lived in the People's Republic for three years. I have seen things here, on an hourly basis, that would result in fisticuffs if they were done in Canada. For example: queue-jumping, drivers cutting off others, drivers and cyclists not looking before making a left or right turn, left turns done from the right lane, right turns done from left lane, drivers not yielding to pedestrians, drivers with their cars on sidewalks blowing horns at pedestrians to get out of the way, running of red lights, driving the wrong way, people not waiting for others to leave the elevator before entering, cars swerving about women in prams instead of stopping for them, people standing around the doctor instead of being in the waiting area, people standing behind you but reaching around you with cash to try to get service ahead of you, spitting in restaurants, people letting their children urinate on supermarket floors, et cetra.

But, nobody but foreigners blink when these things happen. We adapt because it is their country.

When in Rome, do as the Romans do.

Posted by: Andis Kaulins at December 16, 2007 9:12 AM

andis kaulis - yes, I've heard exactly the same. People driving cars on sidewalks, no regard for traffic rules. Certainly, no such thing as queues.

Spitting is a serious problem; it's practically a cultural habit of men; Beijing is trying to get people to stop it before the Olympics (heh, I doubt if they'll have much luck).

Litter? The norm is to throw your litter down without thought. In fact, I know of a conference held in Australia; the Chinese group were taken aside and told that in Australia, the population is much smaller. They don't have the 'extra people' to work to pick up litter, so, when in Australia, the Chinese delegation must not do as they normally do, and throw all litter to the ground; they must put in in the garbage themselves.

Recycling? Of tins, glass, paper, anything? Unheard of in China.

Caution about foods? Unheard of. If it's moving and living, they'll catch and eat it - whether infested, illegal or whatever.

It's a different perspective. Not evil. Not amoral. Not due to race. When they come here, they must learn the norms of our behaviour.

Again, multiculturalism, a policy that defines all modes of belief and behaviour as OK, and that isolates people into non-adaptive blocks - must end.

Posted by: ET at December 16, 2007 9:43 AM

When Kate says,

...When Did "Asshole" Become a Race

I really don't think she is saying Asians are ass holes.

I could be wrong but I think she is saying that some people who get in trouble for behaving like ass holes pretend they are victim of racism.

When in fact it is simply their "assholeness" that is the problem and not their race.

She could have said ,

" when did people who cut in front of the line become a race? "

it would have meant the same thing...I think?

Posted by: Friend of USA at December 16, 2007 9:43 AM

Wow, Kate's story is very bizarre. Makes me think of an incident a couple days ago:

I was on the bus and noticed that two white guys were sitting in the front seats reserved for the disabled and elderly. It was rush hour, and most other seats were taken, standing room only. Lo and behold, an older Asian woman got on the bus, and had to remain standing and clinging to one of the poles. The driver did nothing, and other passengers did nothing, other than the odd glare. I made my way up to the two assholes and asked if they could haul their butts off the seat - which they did.

Moral(s) of this story? First, race does not determine behaviour, and second, if you want to deal with rude behaviour, you don't tuck tale and run when it's happening in your face, and then later sulk off to the internet and whine about race - you deal with it head on.

(Shakes head in disbelief).

Posted by: JohnnyRingo at December 16, 2007 9:47 AM

Take a look around folks. Many are talking as if "Asians" (I'm supposing Oriental) just got here, and aren't as Canadian as the rest of us (presumably White). Many of those Asians have been here for generations, and are just as Canadian as any of you, whether you like it or not.

Go back to their country indeed. Why don't you go back to yours if you don't like how those Canadians are acting? If we're speaking as Canadians, it's important to remember - "they" are us. This isn't a white nation you know. Maybe some of you white people should learn to assimilate.

This whole debate began because people were "tipping" asians - that is, knocking them into the water. They were clearly targeted due to their race. IE; a racist act.

Haven't any of you ever fished off a dock - where people stand right next to each other? I guess not.

Posted by: Jimbo at December 16, 2007 9:49 AM

O K Andis - what is your point? Are you saying that we should all behave like Asians here in our own country or that Asians should behave like us in our own country? I hope it is the latter.

Posted by: a different Bob at December 16, 2007 9:49 AM

Does t.dot.roll stand for too dumb to reason?

The issue here isn't Kate's or our "racism," it's about how come it's OK for immigrants, because of their skin colour and "different" customs, to be a**holes and get away with it, whereas if one of us did the same thing, we'd be roundly criticized for it?

The commensurate issue is not only how come newcomers to Canada can get away with ignorant and intolerant behaviour, but why if we born-in-Canada-Canadians point out how ignorant, rude, and nasty the behaviour is, we're accused of being "racist."

The shoe's always on the other foot these days. Let's remember: It's not the immigrants' dads and granddads who sacrificed their lives to make Canada the country they much prefer to live in, rather than stay in the lands where they were born.

We need definitely NOT to cave in to the inordinate demands made by the idiot toadies employed by the HRCs: that we treat immigrants with extravagant politesse while it's OK for them to run roughshod over our conventions and customs.

But a caution: Canadians had better reacquaint themselves with the foundation stones of our culture, from which they seem to have become unattached in recent decades. These value are, of course, those of the Judeo-Christian canon, and are worth another look, folks. No wonder we're being trampled underfoot. Most Canadians have no clue how to "defend the hope that is in them." They have no articulated idea why it would be wrong for immigrants to tell US what to do.

If you watch the commentary on the series Rome, the director makes a very telling statement. He says that in the making of the epic, he was struck by the similarities and huge discrepancies between us and the citizens of Rome.

He said when it came to the discrepancies, like the consistent brutalization of each other, the never-ending scheming, lying, cheating, fornication, dismemberments, etc. it is clear what brought them to an end--and that was the arrival of Judeo-Christianity. Watch it. He said it.

We need to be much more conversant with WHY Canada is the free democracy it is today, and why it is that immigrants flock here. "Without a vision the people perish." Canadians are fast losing the vision of our founding fathers and mothers, which was based on their Judeo-Christian beliefs and values. Without this foundation and our ability to not only articulate it but defend it, we are ripe for the picking and to be trampled underfoot.

Canadians need to think long and hard about this. Civilized nations don't just happen. They are based on such creeds as "Love your neighbour as yourself," on sacrificial love and generosity, not on government handouts or immigration programs to ensure that one party (the Librano$) get the immigrant vote.

Posted by: 'been around the block at December 16, 2007 9:53 AM

Re "Friend of USA": "it is simply their "assholeness" that is the problem and not their race."

You're right - that's the point I get from Kate too.

The bigger debate concerns who we are talking about when we say "us" (as in "behave like us")? We may be the most culturally diverse country in the world. Do we have an identity? Is it relatively established, or is it changing? These are difficult questions to answer, and there are numerous, contradictory perspectives, often depending on our own racial and cultural backgrounds.

Posted by: Jimbo at December 16, 2007 10:05 AM

I can't speak to all incidents, but in the Westport case, the oriental gentlemen were fishing near or on a bridge, with a sign prominently posted from the Ont. Natural Resources Dept. "NO FISHING". This is a breeding and stocking site for Eastern Ontario.

Posted by: MikeW at December 16, 2007 10:09 AM

how nice. kate's added the chinese to her list of those unfit to live in her country.

so who's allowed here? fat white men and your wrethced dogs?

your sense of entitlement is beyond compare. i wonder how courteous your ancestors were when they first started infecting native peoples upon their arrival to north america.

Posted by: jeff davidson at December 16, 2007 10:34 AM

When did 'asshole' become a race?

Right about the time when the other 'races' began using multiculturalism to get rid of their own assholes.

(Something to consider, for both sides.)

Posted by: Daniel M. Ryan at December 16, 2007 10:39 AM

A couple of you look like you "got it".

Furthermore - I wonder how many of you considered the disconnect between your arguments alleging that I am painting all Asians with one broad "racist" brush, while failing to notice that the linked article takes these incidents - all of them confined to fishermen - and expands the alleged insult as having been committed against the entire Asian "community"?

Now - I suggest that the time has arrived that you pick a position.

If my experience at the hands of individuals cannot be expanded to draw conclusions about the nature of their culture, and wonder if that pattern may be repeating itself in other fishing spots across Canada - then it is also inappropriate to take incidents in which Asians are thrown into the lake and expand that to suggest that thiose doing the throwing are somehow drenching other Asians sitting at their living rooms watching television 6 hours away in Toronto.

In other words - why mention their race or their community at all?

If the race/culture of the offender and victim isn't relevant to my story here in Saskatchewan, why bring it up in relation to the incidents in Ontario? Surely they're all just Canadian fishermen.

Posted by: Kate at December 16, 2007 10:59 AM

OFGS, jd: No, Kate's not saying Chinese people are unfit to live in Canada, you ______________. (Fill in the blank yourself.)

When people emigrate from their country to Canada and think they're entitled to NOT adapt to the host culture, sometimes flouting our Canadian conventions--which include not infringing on someone's fishing hole, and lining up for service, you know, jd: first come, first served?, etc.--then we're perfectly entitled to point this out.

These selfish, loutish immigrants might want to either change their ways or, if they don't like the way we do it here in Canada, are perfectly free to go back to their country of origin.

I lived in Latin America for a few years, where the convention is to NOT line up in the market, but to push your way to the front for service. I learned very quickly to say nothing in protest if I was being shoved to the back of the line, because it simply ensured that the owner of the store would ignore you and pretend you didn't exist. There was no Human Rights Commission to complain to.

In Canada, our "offended" minorities--boo hoo, here, I'm expected to behave differently than in my country of origin--can accuse anyone who has been critical of them of "racism," can take anyone they want to the HRCs, pay nothing, complain like heck, and exact a pound of flesh and mucho dinero from the "offending" Canadian. This is "rights and freedoms" for all Canadians? 'Seems only for new citizens.

GIVE ME A BREAK. That's what this thread is about.

Posted by: 'been around the block at December 16, 2007 11:09 AM

These "anglers" aren't being attacked because of their race or incredibly bad manners. Rather it is because they over-fish the area with impunity. They fish in areas marked no fishing, standing right in front of the sign saying no fishing, with impunity. They take as many fish as they can with no regard for legal limits, with impunity.
And if a white male did any or all of these things, that white male would be held accountable.
But because of their race, these "Anglers" are not. Ever. So, somebody, explain to me just who is the racist here?

Posted by: lyle bert at December 16, 2007 11:17 AM

Been around the block said: Canadians had better reacquaint themselves with the foundation stones of our culture, from which they seem to have become unattached in recent decades. These value are, of course, those of the Judeo-Christian canon....

If we are going to be honest with ourselves, the foundational stones would be aboriginal. Another race tried very, very hard to take that away.

Posted by: MMM at December 16, 2007 11:33 AM

Kate: Did you notice that Warren Kinsella is commenting on your site re: this post?

He conveniently posted some of the comments herein - not your comments but rather some of the more virtriolic ones.

Just a few posts before it he:

1. Chides Brian Mulroney and Paul Martin for destroying evidence while hinting that Jean Chretien never did. Well perhaps JC never personally did but there was that incident about an implicating alphabetic contact list that ended just before the letter "J".

The facts never impede the efforts of a dogmatic, biased spinner. A man with no sense of shame. And certainly no desire to have a full discussion of any issue/topic.

Posted by: Gord Tulk at December 16, 2007 11:43 AM

Would MMM be referring to the American race?

- From someone who paid attention in Canadian history class.

Posted by: Daniel M. Ryan at December 16, 2007 11:53 AM

The hack photographer has visited in order to be offended again.

"wrethced dogs?" Is that a new breed?

Yes, I agree, extrapolating a few of these racist Chinese tipping cases into a much larger cultural problem is ridiculous, but on plan. It's meant to beat whitey into a submissive and perpetually guilty role, thereby paving the way for more multiculti change.

Every race does have its assholes and decent folk. This is not exclusive. There are transient white people who are just as ignorant; who fish off bridges and narrows where boaters travel at my cottage, causing all kinds of havok.

The only immigrant we must question are those who collectively adhere to a competitive and hostile ideology. Who have pre-set 'religious' goals to replace our society and political system with their own. Who actively seek our demise. All of this ordered and sanctified by their prophet and god.

Allowing Islamic immigration is madness.

I spent most of my childhood and teenage years growing up in a culturally diverse part of Toronto and had many friends of every race. In my estimation, most immigrants, typically Canadian born, do adapt to our culture and social expectations.

Posted by: irwin daisy at December 16, 2007 11:56 AM

It's so wonderful to see the heart of 'conservatism' in all its primal, essential beauty: RACISM.

Posted by: yolik at December 16, 2007 12:08 PM

The second-last indictment of the American Declaration of Independence:

"He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us, and has endeavoured to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless Indian Savages whose known rule of warfare, is an undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions."

Implication: the Crown prevented the colonists from having at the natives. This interpretation is backed up by the continual series of massacres of natives by Americans - no, not Canadians, Americans.

That's why this fellow sought the safety and protection of Canada through appealing to Canada's Queen. That's why his decendants in spirit are currently appealing to "the honour of the Crown" is seeking resolution for their current land claims. No, not for wholesale massacres, but for lands that they claim were stolen from them.

- This lesson in remedial history is brought to you by someone who paid attention in both American and Canadian history classes. Please learn the difference between the two.

[Perhaps us Canadians should have been more demanding of Americans when it came to assimilation...]

Posted by: Daniel M. Ryan at December 16, 2007 12:11 PM

Sweet. I made it onto KKKinsella. One has to wonder who the racists are, that they think just because someone is of a different race they are entitled to special treatment. Remember it was the Liberals who made a political career out of importing ethnically diverse people into Canada for the sole purpose of importing Liberal votes into Canada. NOT, for the benefit of Canada.

I would venture to say that were this a matter of a Swedish Cdn pushing a German Cdn into the water for crowding or whatever this would not rate a mention.

Posted by: johnboy at December 16, 2007 12:14 PM


False accusations of racism are counter productive.

The more non-caucasians do that, the less we trust them.

I would even go as far as saying the multi-culti crowd ; Liberals, the media, the HRC etc... are encouraging racism and creating more racists by being very unfair to Caucasian Native Canadians.

Posted by: Friend of USA at December 16, 2007 12:15 PM

Looks like our fish cops are doing racial profiling - check out Pacific:

http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/media/charges_e.htm#05

This must stop NOW!!!!!

Posted by: ural at December 16, 2007 12:21 PM

@Friend of USA:

In a way, though, it's reassuring to know that the libs have a nice set of bigotries, all of which are their very own.

"Oh - as if you're not?" does come in handy.

Posted by: Daniel M. Ryan at December 16, 2007 12:21 PM

Yeah, right, MMM (Maddeningly Moronic Message):

All of our political, judicial, medical, and educational institutions are based on the customs and conventions of Canada's Aboriginal peoples?

Your asinine statement (which doesn't mean that I think Aboriginal peoples have nothing to share of value) shows just how far our "academic" institutions have fallen short in actually educating the Canadians.

You'd better hit the books, again, MMM. But, not the recent history books, which have eradicated Canada's actual history since Europeans first arrived in Canada. Hey, we're allowed here too. (My ancestors arrived from County Cork in 1799.)

As I pointed out in another thread, if the Aboriginal people had built ocean-going vessels rather than canoes they, too, would have arrived on the shores of a country inhabited by others, and I wonder what the fate of the "founding" people there would be? Aboriginal peoples were territorial, too. Look at what happened to the tribes they conquered: They disappeared.

Posted by: 'been around the block at December 16, 2007 12:24 PM

Basically, what's going on here is some immigrants aren't up to speed on fishing etiquette and regulations. The locals, who are invariably protective of their favorite spots with anyone, react rather strongly to any violations.

Now, it just so happens that these immigrants are a different race. This has probably caused some locals to be more resentful than they otherwise would. It has definitely got the authorities more interested in the issue than they otherwise would.

Having fished on the West Coast for many years, I have noticed that a fair number of immigrants tend to be ignorant of the fishing regs and customs, whether willfully or through lack of knowledge, I don't know. When my father was in the Coast Guard one of their regular duties was to do the rounds of islands in the Straight to clear off Vietnamese clamming illegally. So it can be a problem.

Our local fishing forum at www.fishbc.com often has people claiming about Eastern Europeans in the same vein. Though no one has ever filed a human rights complaint.

If the authorities in Ontario had any sense, they would arrest the violent offenders as they should, but there should also be an effort to recognize that the issue is not simply grounded in racism. A little education of both sides would go a long way.

Posted by: chip at December 16, 2007 12:27 PM

After recovering from the initial culture shock while living in China, I easily assimilated into pushing to the front of the line, and it became fun - since I was about a foot taller and 75 pounds heavier than most of the locals.

Posted by: glasnost at December 16, 2007 12:29 PM

'Badge of honour: I, too, made it into Kinsella's rogues' (a**holes'?) gallery.

So, he thinks that it's OK for Human Rights Commissions to be accessible and available only to those who agree with him--or with whom he agrees, and that they should be closed and inaccessible to the rest of us?

Well, hey, he'$ a Librano. What else would you expect?

Posted by: 'been around the block at December 16, 2007 12:31 PM

Chip, I think you are dead on.

The solution:
1) enforce the fishing rules so the non-local fishermen understand that "we mean it". I don't mean just to warn them off, but fine a few of them....

2) enforce the "no throwing people into the water no matter what the damn excuse is" rule is so that the locals know that they are embarrassing themselves and the country.

There are two failures here. A failure of communication, and a failure of law enforcement.

Posted by: Lori at December 16, 2007 12:45 PM

The Balding Angster linked to me the other day. It delivered 12 visits.

A little sympathy is in order - he's fallen far from the heady days when he penned the best job opportunity Chuck Guite ever had.

Posted by: Kate at December 16, 2007 12:59 PM

Larqs: it wasn't Barbara Hall who banned the Barenaked Ladies-- it was the socially conservative (ie uptight) mayor June Rowlands before her who did that. Makes more sense, n'est-ce pas?

And Kate it's interesting that you're so full of bluster everday behind the relative anonymity of this site, but you couldn't have taken 5 minutes to ask/explain to your asshole interlopers what the proper etiquette was? Hmmmm.....

Posted by: Derek Pearce at December 16, 2007 1:08 PM

"It's so wonderful to see the heart of 'conservatism' in all its primal, essential beauty: RACISM."

Posted by: yolik

Yolik is a comfortably superior racist. He is the sort that supports and protects Islamic bigotry, racism and misogyny. He understands Islamic hate texts and sermons and the resulting murder, rape and destruction as an equally good cultural norm.

He is the most odious and vile of racists. Watch out for his type and expose him whenever possible. He and others like him need to be driven from society and made a pariah.

Posted by: irwin daisy at December 16, 2007 1:14 PM

Mr. Kinsella has linked to this and has used my 11:21 p.m. comment as an example of racism . Unfortunately the aged punk has lost any balls that he may have once had and will not allow comments or rebuttals. I have fished for some 40 odd years and have noticed on most if not all occasions that the Asian community keeps everything they keep. Throwing a fish back to mature and be caught another day is not being done. They will keep a fish that I and others would consider bait. I asked them why and was told that it is for making fish sauce. This is not good form.The hutterites in Alberta tend to do the same. Is it racist to call them on it also?

Posted by: wallyj at December 16, 2007 1:24 PM

Meant to say'keep everything they catch'.

Posted by: wallyj at December 16, 2007 1:25 PM

Looks like WK took the bait...
HRC next...do they work on Sunday?

Posted by: bluetech at December 16, 2007 1:31 PM

Kinsella puts the "ass" in assinine.

Posted by: a different Bob at December 16, 2007 1:31 PM

For the benefit of the emotional lefties that haunt this site and spew their uneducated bile:

A "racist" is defined as:

1 : a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race
2 : racial prejudice or discrimination

Please note that ascribing observable cultural characteristics to a certain race is not part of the definition of "racist".

Please, obtain at least a modicum of education before you start talking to the adults here. Run away and play now...I'm sure there are drowning polar bears somewhere that need a big hug.

Posted by: Eeyore at December 16, 2007 1:36 PM

So if someone had left a note on your car Kate, that read: "Small,Dead, Biggot" would that be hate speech or an incitement to violence, a death threat? What if someone posted it on the net?

On a different topic:

Kate, you must be flattered that a big name Lib like Kinsella is using you to try and keep his name out in the public lest he vanish into the nether regions of political insignificance.

Posted by: johnboy at December 16, 2007 1:37 PM

They don't know much about fishing safety for starters.
Maybe where they come from space is a problem, they're used to getting close, having less elbow room.

Anyway, ASSHOLES come from any race, any color.

In the dream world of the Cloud Dwellers, the worst kind of racism lives. They jump on the last refuge like the scoundrels they are, all high and mighty, pompously railing against anyone, who is merely standing up for their rights on any issue.

Posted by: Liz J at December 16, 2007 1:46 PM

For the benefit of anyone who posts here, I wish that they would understand that a different ethnic group is NOT, NOT, NOT a 'race'.

'Race' refers to attributes that are biologically hereditary. Behaviour is not biologically hereditary. The behaviour of various ethnic groups, primarily Asian, that is being discussed here, is NOT hereditary; it is NOT race-embedded. It is CULTURAL behaviour, and can be referred to as 'ethnic' or 'cultural'.

Please, stop misusing terminology. The behaviour we are discussing is cultural; it is learned not genetic. It can be changed - and we have to encourage them to change it.

Posted by: ET at December 16, 2007 1:50 PM

"So if someone had left a note on your car Kate, that read: "Small,Dead, Biggot" would that be hate speech or an incitement to violence, a death threat? What if someone posted it on the net?"

Good question, Johnboy.

I think I may take it up with the OPP come morning.


Posted by: Kate at December 16, 2007 1:53 PM

WK, what a looser.

Advises, promotes Guite. $65 Million missing.

Advises, promotes Kyoto. Scam.

Advises, promotes Punk Bands. Drugs.

His Pope also says Kyoto a scam.

Even his friends, Copps, Coyne often contradict him.

Hey!! Shoveled the MMGW off the driveway yet ??
Trying to get out to meet the Bali Dancers at Ottawa airport ?
Flights cancelled due to severe winter climate !!?

sda haunts him day and night --- because the truth hurts.

His salvation in the past, the media, is now being exposed daily by thousands of blogs.

Time to get with the program, Wornout Kantsellit :)

Posted by: ron in kelowna at December 16, 2007 1:53 PM

I just came back from spending the last 4 months out there in SK and I must admit the treat I just received. I am living amongst those asian AHOLES here in Eastern Ontario now! What a relief to be among people that actually resemble human beings again.

Those asian AHOLES that fish (what crime?) are far more decent human beings than the posters here. You are the ones that should, in the parlance of johnboy: "Learn the language, learn the customs and use them"

In this case, it is the language and customs of the human race that you should use.

Posted by: Ted L. at December 16, 2007 1:54 PM

Y'all know, liberals are a lot like those three assholes we're talking about.

It's part of the culture of entitlement. And it's not just "minority" assholes who do such stuff... it's plain old European-looking liberal assholes as well.

All my life I've suffered such assholery from mostly Euro-descended assholes. While I appreciate that assholes come in all colors, shapes, etc, my own experience is that most of these assholes who make my life difficult are plain old white liberal assholes.

Posted by: Canadian Sentinel at December 16, 2007 1:57 PM

Kate,

That link to the Chuck G and "I'm entitled to my entitlements" D. Dingwall was priceless.

And there is Kinsella's name right there in the sandbox next to fresh dog poop.

I won't go to Kinsella's site anymore even for sardonic reasons. The hit will only encourage him.

An Kinsella, if you are reading this .... Punk Rock isn't music. It is noise that non musicians do instead of music. No talent required, just loud instruments and a really, REALLY stupid attitude.

Posted by: John West at December 16, 2007 2:01 PM

"I just came back from spending the last 4 months out there in SK and I must admit the treat I just received. I am living amongst those asian AHOLES here in Eastern Ontario now! What a relief to be among people that actually resemble human beings again."

Did you just refer to aboriginals as non-human?

Posted by: Kate at December 16, 2007 2:02 PM

And those "human rights" bodies don't want to admit that there are folks who need to adjust to Canadian norms and mores but who may be unaware, thus behave in an antisocially selfish manner.

What we need to do is remind ALL persons that they're expected to behave a certain way and not make excuses and exceptions for "special" folks who can very, very easily adjust their behavior and attitude to fit in with everyone else in society.

Isn't that what the Left does, telling us to think, speak and act like they tell us to? Well, how come the Left doesn't tell EVERYONE that they have to fit in? Something's f'ed up here...

Posted by: Canadian Sentinel at December 16, 2007 2:05 PM

Ted L.,

I suspect the real treat was for the people of SK ... when you left.

Posted by: ural at December 16, 2007 2:11 PM

Please, stop misusing terminology.
Posted by: ET at December 16, 2007 1:50 PM

Again, multiculturalism, a policy that defines all modes of belief and behaviour as OK,....
Posted by: ET at December 16, 2007 9:43 AM

Posted by: manny at December 16, 2007 2:17 PM

Been Around the Block says:

"All of our political, judicial, medical, and educational institutions are based on the customs and conventions of Canada's Aboriginal peoples?"

No - as I pointed out, another race took away the political, judicial, medical and educational practices etc. of the foundational race.

"Your asinine statement"

My father always taught me that when people have a weak point you need to turn up the volume....


"You'd better hit the books, again, MMM."

Actually, I read quite a lot. Just started Alan Greenspan's book. Let me know what you thought of it.

"As I pointed out in another thread, if the Aboriginal people had built ocean-going vessels rather than canoes they, too, would have arrived on the shores of a country inhabited by others, and I wonder what the fate of the "founding" people there would be?"

Calls for speculation. I'm just dealing with facts. I'm sorry that you don't care for them.

Posted by: mmm at December 16, 2007 2:18 PM

True story:

1969, University of Winnipeg.

Many in my class were from Hong Kong. Andrew Go and I had become very, very good friends. He was incredibly intelligent, but did not flaunt it one bit. He taught me how to play chess. By spring I could prolong the defeat to about 20 minutes, lol.

A year later, U of M, some of my Canadian friends wondered how I could put up with "them". They lived in residence and saw a different side. Andrew wasn't among them. The constant loud chattering, loud munching, burping and, yes, taking your chair, was hard to put up with.

While this conduct can, and does, take place in any community, it seems to be more predominant in some.

Race does not cause racism --- but some learned culture of a race, any race, can cause resentment.

We all have to be responsible for our actions. The fanatical liberals spoil it for others.

Andrew Go ? Ever try and look up someone with a last name like 'GO' !!??

Posted by: ron in kelowna at December 16, 2007 2:27 PM

This situation should never had to happen if the MNR had enforced the Fishing regulations.
If its within the town limits, have the local police enforce the reg's. and confiscate their fishing gear.
A posted Fish Sanctuary means NO Fishing period.
I havent read anything were the local Fish and Game Clubs are complaining.

Posted by: George at December 16, 2007 2:30 PM

This situation should never had to happen if the MNR had enforced the Fishing regulations.
If its within the town limits, have the local police enforce the reg's. and confiscate their fishing gear.
A posted Fish Sanctuary means NO Fishing period.
I havent read anything were the local Fish and Game Clubs are complaining.

Posted by: George at December 16, 2007 2:31 PM

Best comment yet from JohnnyRingo:

..."if you want to deal with rude behaviour, you don't tuck tale and run when it's happening in your face, and then later sulk off to the internet and whine about race - you deal with it head on."

Posted by: Jeff at December 16, 2007 2:35 PM

Best comment yet from JohnnyRingo:

..."if you want to deal with rude behaviour, you don't tuck tale and run when it's happening in your face, and then later sulk off to the internet and whine about race - you deal with it head on."

Jeff, Like these guys did?
http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/11/22/hunters.slain/index.html

Posted by: johnboy at December 16, 2007 2:42 PM

johnboy,

He tried to use the hate crime defense.

http://www.vdare.com/bevens/050920_vang.htm

Posted by: ural at December 16, 2007 2:56 PM

Take a stand ?

But the 'fanatical' liberals, not common liberals, have a warped policy[sic] on that.

There can be no discrimination. NONE.

Drug dealers by the school yard ? Just earning a living ---- slap on wrist, free to continue.

Break our fishing laws ? ---- just expressing their culture.

Hippy since grade nine, cannot provide for themselves now ? --- no worry, it is the (fanatical) liberal way, to reward failure, punish success. The ultimate being, The United Nations/Mo strong approach.

Posted by: ron in kelowna at December 16, 2007 2:59 PM

Kate:

Have had anglers crowd me here too and told them that it was impolite to crowd. They moved. It happens most when I'm catching fish and nobody else is!

I have noticed that anglers of oriental origin think nothing of fishing right next to each other. It is almost a social custom it seems. The European competition tradition though is that competitors have 10-15 metres between "pegs", thus giving everyone their space to cast.

If all else fails, put on a bl**dy great pike lure and cast sideways a few times...

Posted by: Alchemist at December 16, 2007 3:48 PM

Perhaps these Chinese fishermen have assimilated into modern Canadian society, with its culture of entitlement and lack if civility. The lefties and their multicult programs have succeeded.

Posted by: Hephaestion at December 16, 2007 3:51 PM

I agree that it should not matter what their culture accepts, as they are now in Canada. Yet is it any wonder that immigrants no longer seek to assimilate when our official policy and many government programs encourage and reward them not to assimilate? This is not to excuse the rude behaviour in this situation, which as pointed out, would be acceptable in China.

As long as we worship at the alter of multiculturalism, we shall be expected to adapt to immigrants instead of the opposite.

Posted by: Alain at December 16, 2007 3:52 PM

Yesterday at a medium size city in Alberta I was standing in line at Starbucks. It's the holiday season, people are out in mass numbers. It's a given that things will take longer than usual this time of year, and that means even longer in labor-pinched Alberta. The workers were still cheerful and even though it was taking much longer to get my simple black coffee, I was waiting patiently.

But lo and behold, a native woman pushed into line right in front of me and begins to yell at the poor girl behind the counter "what's wrong with yo? treating us like blacks, this is taking forever!" trying her feeble best to play the race card.. So I said the the native woman, "Do you realize how rude and uncivilized that is barging in front of me like that just to yell at someone?' She walked away muttering to herself.

This is the direct result of Turdeau's dream of a multi-culti nation experiment. Aren't you proud Canada?

Posted by: Doug at December 16, 2007 3:54 PM

must be a slow day Ted is back or they're slow on givin the meds.
So Asian tippin,whatever happened to cow tippin?
Was fun in my day,Asshole tippin ,I still do that whats race gotta do with it.
George Wallace said it"Niggers ,I did say Niggers ,the way I see it ,theys black niggers an theys white niggers"Nigger=asshole,there is no end to assholes,no race no religion,some got more than others ,just a fact Jack.Now some o those folk ,get the system here an take advantage ,thats only natural.
I got a story if anyone's interested.I'll ask before I unload tho

Posted by: Peter,not that one at December 16, 2007 3:54 PM

Excuse me for butting in from way down here in the Southwest US, but our situation with illegal immigrants has given me a little insight into this problem.

Nobody's said anything about the US here except for one guy who brought up Sitting Bull. (I could go into that, but hey... kinda old news, eh?)

I'm an activist on the illegal immigration issue that so many of you have familiarity with. The responsibility for integrating foreign nationals into our culture falls essentially on our politicians.

They are the ones whose objectives include vast amounts of immigration, much to the consternation of most of us. They are the ones who manufacture the laws and the rules and oversee the enforcement end.

They continually deluge our countries with immigration, and yet they do not provide for an entry-level educational program that would teach the new arrival about our customs and our expectations for their behavior.

Very few politicians rise above the completely smarmy level, and blind ambition drives their political careers. There may be a few exceptions.

I have learned from dealing at the national, state, and local levels with the illegal immigration issue that politicians regard citizens simply as human resources.

They do want to preserve our countries, but their interests lie in preserving our infrastructure; our financial, educational, and government institutions; and in fact the entire physical, political, and industrial infrastructures.

However, they regard people largely as interchangeable cogs to operate in the socio-economic systems to keep things running.

They need us to vote for them, and they need us to fill the roles of society. They don't care a great deal about culture, and they don't care much about individuals, because ultimately people are seen as replaceable.

I appreciate that my views seem very cynical. But they have been formed by actually engaging the political process. It has made me aware that the chief strength that a citizen has to address these issues is being able to threaten elected officials with the loss of their offices. If it weren't for that, we would all just be replaceable pieces of machinery.

Posted by: Greg in Dallas at December 16, 2007 4:09 PM

Kate:

There was nothing about my post that referenced aboriginals.

Why would you think that? I assume that you read the post.

Posted by: Ted L. at December 16, 2007 4:28 PM

mmm—that would obviously stand for magic-thinking mental midget—says: "I'm just dealing with facts." Is that so?

So, tell us about the front and centre place of present day health, educational, technological, "I'm my brother's keeper", religious, artistic, etc. institutions in Canada that are based on aboriginal culture. Also, mmm, in keeping with your enthusiasm for and endorsement of First Nations culture, please let us know on which reserve you’re voluntarily living. And, if you’re not living in such a place, why not?

My mother told me, "A little knowledge is a dangerous thing." So, mmm, is a small, uninformed, deluded mind.

Posted by: lookout at December 16, 2007 4:31 PM

Harper is continuing to allow high levls of immigration to Canada:

http://www.cic.gc.ca/ENGLISH/resources/statistics/facts2006/permanent/29.asp

Why do right wingers always complain about high levels of immigration (both legal and illegal) and yet when they're in power, they do nothing about it?

Posted by: lberia at December 16, 2007 4:38 PM

"Why would you think that? I assume that you read the post."

I did. You mentioned spending four months in Saskatchewan, and that you were back living among those who "resemble human beings" again. Saskatchewan is the province with the highest percentage of aboriginals in the country. By default, your statement includes our First Nations, you racist urban elitist, you.

As well as any number of 3rd, 4th generation Chinese whose parents moved here, adapted to our culture and customs and raised respectable members of the community.

Moron.


Posted by: Kate at December 16, 2007 4:49 PM

Spending a little time in Shanghai traffic would go a long way to understanding the behaviour of our asian friends.

I agree somewhat with ET. Although there are line ups at stores, restaurants etc in China, it's ultra competitive. If you give up six inches between you and the next person someone will invariably and quickly try to squeeze in (you snooze you lose). If you keep tight to the person in front, others will go behind you in line. That's life in the orient.

We're just too polite in Canada to not be taken advantage of by people that grew up under a much more "dog eat dog" environment. However our behaviour overall is becoming much more competitive, maybe in part due to eastern influences...driving around the streets of Calgary is indicative of that. Losing our trademark politeness is the real loss.

Posted by: Martin B. at December 16, 2007 4:53 PM

I fired off an e-mail to Warren Kinsella just to let him know that the world knows he is daft and an asshat. Of course Warren, being a graduate with honors from the college of quick wit and verbal retort answered back with "up yours, Nazi". Wow - impressive! LOL

Posted by: a different Bob at December 16, 2007 5:04 PM

Hardly one to defend Warren Kinsella, who is indeed daft and an asshat, but if somebody emailed me to tell me so, I'd tell them to fuck off too, without wasting a lot of witty erudition on the sender.

Posted by: Darrell at December 16, 2007 5:21 PM

a different Bob,

I'd hold on to that email from Kinsella. Seeing as how he dips into politics, you never know when you might be able to use it against him.

Posted by: irwin daisy at December 16, 2007 5:22 PM

My husband and his brothers could be deemed Nazi fishermen, meaning when they go fishing they are relentless killers from dark in the am to dark in the pm. - always sticking to their limits, of course. They wouldn't tolerate their own mother swooping into their fishhole and casting across their lines, let alone strangers. Hell, I don't even like to fish, although fish like me, and I'd be moving those rude wannabe fishermen down the waterway.

Perhaps people with half a brain would possibly ask themselves, perhaps the orientals are the problem.

Posted by: Joanne at December 16, 2007 5:25 PM

Lberia...you assume nothing is being done...why? Is it because Harper hasn't stood up in the HoC for all eyes and ears to make 'statement' re: immigration only to have the bananas an tomatoes tossed at him with the racist cards?A few trolls here would be the first in line.
The Immigration department in Canada is a huge bungling beaurocratic mess, with decisions being made by individuals who clearly lack common sense.
I could give many examples...so save your index finger on that one.
That portfolio needs to be cleaned...top to bottom.

Posted by: bluetech at December 16, 2007 5:32 PM

OK then Darrell - you're daft and asshat. Dont' waste any of your time or wit telling me to F off. I'll just assume that this is what you would normally do and leave it at that.

Posted by: a different Bob at December 16, 2007 5:53 PM

chip (12:27 PM) is on to something. Perhaps the best way to shrink the occurrance of those incidents is to ensure that the fishing holes are better policed. The police did show up anyway to some of them.

[A minimum of six hours' worth of snow shoveling has put me in a pragmatic frame of mind.]

Posted by: Daniel M. Ryan at December 16, 2007 5:58 PM

bluetech:

Are you implying that Harper has a hidden agenda and that he's waiting for a majority before he unleashes it?

Posted by: lberia at December 16, 2007 6:10 PM

@ron in kelowna (2:27 PM):

What I found is that happy memories like the one you shared with us do wonders for your patience in matters such as this. It makes it easier to think of people as individuals.

I'm actually glad that I went through the public school system. The memories there, including memories of my own failings, were instrumental for me keeping my head cool later in life.

Posted by: Daniel M. Ryan at December 16, 2007 6:10 PM

@Greg in Dallas:

That fellow was I. It was motivated by Canadian pride, and prompted by the suspicion that us old-style Canadians are being slagged for the dark side of America by closet (liberal) Americans.

I'm surprised none of the libs here brought up the Riel insurrection. In the spirit of international jocularity, I note that Canada's seccession crisis took far fewer troops to resolve than America's big secession crisis.

Although, to be fair, Abe Lincoln was clever enough to come up with the Emancipation Proclamation. It was an inspired gambit: had Sir John A. come up with a similar one of his own, a lot of the crap we've had to endure would either have been absent or would have taken a different form.

There is, after all, always something to complain about :)

Posted by: Daniel M. Ryan at December 16, 2007 6:24 PM

I think this whole thing is more of a cultural rather than a racial issue as many of your commentors have mentioned. The rude fishermen I encountered on the banks of the North Saskatchewan (outside Edmonton) were either of Asian persuasion or drunks. Both left garbage but the ones filling the five gallon pail of everything they hooked and giving that blank stare when you talk to them was the former group.
Bottom line is that "When in Rome...". Don't expect to get along with the locals if you act like you do back home.

btw, as expected, the progressive leftoids were sure fast to paint Kate with the racist brush, but certainly not expected.

Posted by: Texas Canuck at December 16, 2007 6:43 PM

I was struck by the term "racialized Canadians". I read, and re-read that paragraph in puzzlement until it hit me:

Question: But who's doing the racializing?
Answer: The government.

The Charter racializes. Affirmative action racializes. [fill in the blank] racializes. The list would be a long and dreary one.

And also this stuck me: do we need government to sort out these natural frictions? Isn't this just another example of how our society has been infantilized.

I like the Chinese. But driving in Vancouver I've been running a little test for maybe 10 years: when, say, I hold back to let a Chinese driver in ahead of me, will there be a wave? Not once. It just amuses me. They DO wave however when they aggressively jump in while I'm thinking "well there was not need to thank me dude, I didn't LET you in!"

Posted by: Me No Dhimmi at December 16, 2007 7:29 PM

Ted "L" is proof Assholes can appear on the scene anywhere when your least expecting them.
It's got nothing at all to do with race, colour, creed or ethnicity. Assholes cross all lines and boundaries, they're Universal.

They can create stress which has been described as the confusion created when the mind overrides the body's desire to choke the life out of some Asshole who desperately needs it.

Posted by: Liz J at December 16, 2007 7:41 PM

lberia wow!! you guessed it! Just by my statement on immigration!...Yes!! and let's just say you heard it first on sda...now go tell all the lefties it's true!PMSH has a hidden agenda! 'cuz that's what bluetch said on sda.

run along now...

Posted by: bluetech at December 16, 2007 9:06 PM

This isn't a white nation you know.

No, only about 90%.

Posted by: ol hoss at December 16, 2007 9:15 PM

Hey 'Irwin Daisy' why get so mad just 'cause I called y'all racists?

At least have the courage of your convictions! This thread reads like a conference of Grand Imperial Wizards of the Ku Klux Klan. You guys come here so you can all be unashamed, brave racists in your internet anonymity. I understand - you're upset 'cause you lost the DNA lottery. But jeez can't you feel the ugliness of it all?

Posted by: yolik at December 16, 2007 10:14 PM

testing...

Posted by: 'been around the block at December 16, 2007 10:19 PM

Bollocks, yolik.

Being disturbed that our HRCs favour "ethnic" and "cultural" groups from other parts of the world over and above those of us who are five- and six-generation Canadians--whose institutions, for which our fathers and grandfathers fought in two World Wars to preserve, are the reason so many from other countries want to live here--is neither akin to Ku Klux Klan atrocities nor is it racist.

You are, in effect, racist in your attempts to equate reasonable concerns and empirical observations on the part of many of us with the tactics of the Ku Klux Klan. You're dead and dangerously wrong, and you do your position--which would be what, exactly?--a great disservice.

'Seems to me you've lost the argument by this outrageous comparison--and all credibility as a reasoning or reasonable human being. You're the ugly one, yolik.

Why don't you crawl back under that rock you just slid out from?

Posted by: 'been around the block at December 16, 2007 10:38 PM

Fairly evident that whole lot of racists,assholes and racist/assholes made most of the preceding comments. Like most conservative minded people they are just that, and intolerance comes easy to them. I wonder what their origins where? Hunkies,D.P.'s,Irish,Wops,Sheenies,W.A.S.Ps? Like most of us,conservative or liberal we came from groups that were deemed undesireable at one time or another for various reasons,mostly imagined. Most of us have learned something from this but many have'nt and somehow think because they've been around a bit longer than others that they're better and somehow special because they were here first. You would think that as a society we would have learned that the new guy on the block is not a threat and the bullying or harassment is usually a sign of weakness or fear or that one has undergone some bullying or abuse themselves in the past.Why else would one get so worked up and upset over the way others do things especially when no real harm is done? But whatever the reason, one only has to read comments like those in this blog to realize what a bunch of screwed up, evil minded wimps there are out there. I for one am intolerant of bullies, and if I was to come upon one of them acting out you can be sure I would put a stop to it,probably physically. I don't want anyone to go through the humiliating treatment my great grandparents did just because of their religion and the part of the world they were born in, and I would do whatever it takes to put a stop to it.

Posted by: cartach at December 17, 2007 6:54 AM

...I would do whatever it takes to put a stop to it.

Are you sure you wouldn't have to do a peer reviewed study first?

Posted by: ol hoss at December 17, 2007 8:28 AM

'Just love the hypocrisy of those who, in pleading for tolerance and insisting that they are tolerant and open, dump on "conservative minded people" for having an opinion. And not an undefended opinion but one they have backed up with FACTS.

Of course, except for Aboriginal commenators, we're all immigrants, but some of our ancestors scrimped, sacrificed, gave leadership, and fought for the democracy that Canada has become. We little need recent immigrant groups crowding our country who have no intention of owning and/or defending the principles that have made our country one in which they want to live--or so-called Human Rights Commissions that would rather defend their "rights" as they trample all over the rights of the rest of us.

To widen the conversation, we also don't need terrorist extremists who bankroll violent insurrections in their countries of origin, in order to inflate the Librano vote, all the better to keep them in power, my dear. This has been the intent of the Librano$' open immigration policies for far too long.

Comment on these FACTS, cartach, as it seems obvious you've not actually read most of the previous posts, otherwise you wouldn't be justified in calling us "racists,assholes and racist/assholes." How creative of you.

Posted by: 'been around the block at December 17, 2007 9:44 AM

Look at this racist, threatening to resort to physical violence:

"and if I was to come upon one of them acting out you can be sure I would put a stop to it, probably physically."

Probably another that supports the extreme racism, bigotry, misogyny, violence and murder unique to Islam.

"just because of their religion and the part of the world they were born in, and I would do whatever it takes to put a stop to it."

Uh huh. Including a suicide bomb.

Is this who we want here, Canada?

Posted by: irwin daisy at December 17, 2007 11:31 AM

"Dog eat dog."

Heh.

Posted by: Kathy Shaidle at December 17, 2007 1:36 PM

I'm wondering how cartach would handle the fishing spot situation.

Would he repond the same no matter who came to intrude?

Or would some of us warrant one reponse, and another group would get a totally different response?

What would be the limits or boundaries of his tolerance?

Posted by: bluetech at December 17, 2007 1:40 PM

My son-in-law is Asian. He came here as a child with his disposessed parents as Boat People.
Sometimes he acts like an asshole and sometimes he doesn't. His parents, whom I have met several times, had to literally kill people and eat insects in order to survive, They are grateful for the opportunity to live in this country and attempt to conform to our way of life. Sometimes they don't get it though, and act like assholes as well. I belive in most instances people don't purposely try to act like assholes, they just do. And my wife reminds me that sometimes I'm an asshole too.

Posted by: rattfuc at December 17, 2007 2:04 PM

ummm, get off your over-privileged white honky high-horses. guess what? you're descended from immigrants too. if you don't like how you are being treated, speak up and correct the situation. don't yap about it afterward. ya didn't like them so close to your fishing spot? say something.

BTW, the term "orient" refers to the East in general; basically everything East of Turkey, just to let you know that you labeled an entire hemisphere.

Posted by: chris at December 17, 2007 2:21 PM

would all you caring, tolerant liberals standing up for the foreign assholes being discussed here do the same if the situation were reversed?

if po' white trash from alabama went to a very old very famous buddhist temple overseas and peed in the corner? "that's what we do back home!"

if they sat down 2 feet from the famous meditating monk? took their shoes off, scratched and farted, and held a loud conversation about how much better the food is back in 'bama? then mocked the famous buddha statue and took humorous photos of them insulting it?

would you defend THOSE folks? *sure* you would. multiculturalism means "everyone's superior to white males, never mind what your lying eyes tell you." the only racist posts i've read here are from the overfed, self-satisfied liberals. "it must be true! that's what the prof said!!"

Posted by: mistered1000 at December 17, 2007 3:01 PM

"Of course, except for Aboriginal commenators, we're all immigrants..."

Actually batb,unless you believe the Garden of Eden was in,say,Alberta or Quebec,we are ALL immigrants.

And the "I was here first" argument doesn't carry much weight outside of the schoolyard.

Posted by: teddy at December 17, 2007 3:08 PM

Reading the comment thread, it strikes me as funny how so many people scream "Racism" at the drop of a hat.

Kate, I read you site regularly but rarely comment. I enjoy it very much though, and wanted you to know that. Also, I'm glad you didn't get a fishhook in your eye.

cartach - a carrige-return or two might help. Makes things easier to read ... and you'd come off a little less rant-like. Just sayin'

-fret

Posted by: fretless at December 17, 2007 5:20 PM

This behavior happens around the world whether there's fishing going on or not. I noticed after visiting a series of archeological digs in Europe and the Near East all with limited "facility" availability that some Asian tour group members would calmly walk past everyone and take the next available stall all the while pretending no knowledge of the myriad of languages used to dissuade them of the behavior. In the Bay Area, a new dock installed for the community was overrun by immigrants to the extent we were afraid we would be hurt if we stayed. Coming from California, I had no preconceived notions of how foreign men will behave. That changed. I suppose since fishing was involved in this case, they were demonstrating territorial behavior. Sorry to destroy other's preconceived notion of the 'wax on; wax off' type but being foreign does not a saint make.

Posted by: iowavette at December 17, 2007 5:28 PM

Been Around the block--

My point is/was that you're all racists, which is proven by your tired "my family's here 6 or 7 generations, blah, blah blah..." Unless you're Native Canadian, STFU.

Have fun in your little hatefest clubhouse before the HRC comes & shuts you cowardly pipsqueaks Down!

Posted by: yolik at December 17, 2007 7:55 PM

"Have fun in your little hatefest clubhouse before the HRC comes & shuts you cowardly pipsqueaks Down!"

Ummm yeah. Thanks for making our point. People who are unable to use, let alone comprehend logical thinking will fall back on making an HRC complaint rather than trying to understand both sides of the argument. This is what makes the left so scary. When faced with losing a logical argument they seek to ban what they can't comprehend.

Just like if you were to allow your 2 year old to run the house. Lefties seem to be mired in an immature state of logical thinking and are unable to think very far ahead.

To prove this. Pick a bunch of your lefty friends and try playing chess against them. I've done this (without telling them the purpose behind me playing them) and they will lose game after game. Try it with any of your right wing friends and you'll find the games much more challenging. I'd be interested in any scientific info behind this. But it seems to hold true. Must be something to it. I don't think it's as simple as lefties being stupid, it's something more complex to do with the brain working through several computations in sequence. Liberal minded people just seem inadequate in this dept.

Posted by: johnboy at December 17, 2007 9:17 PM

And yolik's NOT racist? I have to be a Native Canadian to have an opinion that counts, otherwise s/he'll have the HRC after me if s/he doesn't agree with me?

Scary stuff.

Posted by: 'been around the block at December 17, 2007 10:18 PM

yolik...i'd rather be a rain drop, a rain drop, a rain drop, i'd rather be a rain drop then a drip like you...

Posted by: tomax7 at December 17, 2007 10:39 PM

"Unless you're Native Canadian, STFU."

Since most "native" Canadians have a significant number of European ancesters in their pedigrees, I'd like you to share how you would allot their permission to speak? Minutes per hour by percentage of aboriginal blood, or?

Think carefully before you answer, Mr.Himmler.

Posted by: Kate at December 17, 2007 11:59 PM

Kate:

Nobody said anything about aboriginals...nobody but you. You are wrong when you say that "Saskatchewan is the province with the highest percentage of aboriginals in the country." You are wrong. Moron. Saskatchewan does not have the highest percentage of aboriginals in the country."

Why do you lie so much? To make your point? And you invoke a minority...shame on you!

Posted by: Ted Logan. at December 18, 2007 1:58 AM

EXCUSE ME, Ted Logan: "Nobody said anything about aboriginals...nobody but you [meaning Kate]."

This is yolik in a post a few up from yours: "My point is/was that you're all racists, which is proven by your tired "my family's here 6 or 7 generations, blah, blah blah..." Unless you're Native Canadian, STFU."

So, Kate's not the only one who brought it up. I mentioned Aboriginal peoples in the context of immigrants to Canada, saying except for Aboriginal peoples, Canada is a nation of immigrants. Someone else pointed out that even THEY were immigrants at one point.

And, while I'm at it: What's "tired" about pointing out that I'm at least fifth or sixth generation Canadian--or that my ancestors helped bring responsible government to Canada? They helped to build the democracy it is today, which is the reason so many immigrants from tyrannical, non-democratic countries want to live in Canada.

I guess yolik would like to take me to the Human Rights Commission because I've dared to mention that my non-Aboriginal ancestors have contributed to Canadian democracy (though there is a high likelihood I actually have Mohawk blood via an ancestor from the U.S.A....but, that's really taking us off-track).

I refuse to STFU, and am offended that it would even be suggested that I do. I won't, however, take yolik to a HRC, because it's undemocratic and agaisnt free speech. Though I loathe and detest his/her point of view, I defend his/her right to hold and express it.

Posted by: 'been around the block at December 18, 2007 7:47 AM

If you have a problem with the fact that Sask is the province with the highest percentage of aboriginals - take it up with StatsCan.

http://atlas.nrcan.gc.ca/site/english/maps/peopleandsociety/population/aboriginalpopulation/abo_2001/pm_abpopcd_01/1

Now sod off, and find a blog that will feed you the misinformation you seek. There are millions of 'em out there.


Posted by: Kate at December 18, 2007 10:03 AM

So the link you posted shows that Ontario has the highest percentage of aboriginals in Canada and not Saskatchewan like you claim.

Again, you are a MORON!

People that don't know how to interpret statistics shouldn't be using them to support their bigotry.

Posted by: Ted Logan at December 18, 2007 9:23 PM

hey round the block

Here's some logical calculations for ya

racist rednecks unashamedly spewing their pus here & on k shaidle's site = hate speech = HRC shutDOWN.

Posted by: yolik at December 19, 2007 8:28 PM
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