"If the crib's on fire, you don't speculate that the baby is flame retardant. "

Al, sweety, Boobie.... first the audience needs the copious amount of reality altering drugs you are on to see these "burning cribs" where there are none. Ya gotta do better than that if you want a return ticket to this show. ( Sammy Maudlin)

Wonderful. So now it is PMSH, as well as the Canadian military who are potential baby-murderer's.

Is there no depth that the moonbat/leftards will not sink to, in order to sell their bullsh1t AGW?

The analogy used by that leftoid is about as insane as one could get.

At last check, we are freezing our a$$es off in Ontario, the coldest winter in 20 yrs is upon us, record cold in South America, and the ice in Antarctica is growing.

Where the f@#$ is the warming I was promised? Idiot, fear mongering, moonbat morons!

The babies are plummeting?

"In university, I discovered the comforting fact that scientists question; they question the work of their peers relentlessly and mercilessly. They must be able to unequivocally show that their work is sound and reproducible. Results obtained under these circumstances are accepted by the scientific community, whether they like them or not. This is the closest the human mind comes to objectivity."   Well no they aren't actually. But why let that little fact get in the way of a good scare.

"Imagine our prime minister on a tall building and passively watching a young baby crawling towards the edge. "

HARPER THE BABY CRUSHER...HARPER THE BABY KILLER! READ ALL ABOUT IT!!

In the left coast dirty hippie tribune...first with surrealist news and events for todays trippy hippy wannabes.

Awe come on Kate! Comment already! The author of that drivel may be university educated but that doesn't mean he is intelligent. I'm not versity learned too but tinks it a good ting to make my taughts pubic out dere you know.

"Sad and embarrassed" - well he/she should be. Babies crawling to the edge - Must be a Dijon lover. PMSH should stand tall. He made the right decision.

probably written by the local Green Party wannbe candidate trying to get some free profile raising via the local rag.

"If the crib's on fire, you don't speculate that the baby is flame retardant. You take action"

Well, sure. But what's this got to do with "coldest winter in 15 years"?

Well no they aren't actually. But why let that little fact get in the way of a good scare.

Uh, yeah, they are, actually. The problem here isn't that scientific consensus isn't reliable, but that global warming is a politicized movement and not a scientific field.

Isn't Chilliwak the Capital of cannabis production in the west.
Geez that writer may need advice about inhaling too deeply.

Sounds whacked out to me.

Also, I would be curious to know if writer had input into the Y2K computer frenzy as well.
Remember how they were all going to crash and every airplane would fall from the sky and the monetary system was going to crash because the old computers would lose track of everything at the stroke of midnight and buying gold was the answer.
Buying carbon credits is the new insanity, and the wacked out progressive in Chilliwak is likely leading that parade.
And yes Kate, as a reader here, I would like very much if you gave that pompous ass a lesson in non-university common sense thinking about Kyoto.
And hopefully a zinger to boot!!

"The babies are plummeting. There is just time to catch them (with a tax shift to carbon)"

The writer wants the life spans of our children to be "nasty, brutish and short", as we return to the caves and the Chinese and Indians take our place at the table of jobs, wealth and longevity.

What a load of peurile ignorant crap!

(I'm allowed to say this because I am universtity educated).

I have to be careful what I read and watch on tv because I get so enraged by the lies and scare mongering in the media concerning AGW that it's bad for my blood pressure and ticker. Where the hell is the global warming?. Suzuki and Gore promised me and I want it.

Classic quote from Dion in today's Globe and Mail, speaking about his hero Galileo...

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20071201.dion01/BNStory/National/home

“The church is wrong. The Earth is around the sun, not the other way around. So he is my hero,” Mr. Dion declared.

Actually, according to Kyoto logic, if the Canadian crib is on fire, what we need to do is to send $ to other developing countries whose cribs are on fire because they don't need to put thier fires out just yet becasue their fires are just getting going. After all, there are at least ten times as many cribs buring in China and India as in Canada, and they are not worried. Give me a break!

Citoyen Dion says: "“The church is wrong."

Where does this moonbat live? Is he in the world?

Does Dion not know that the RC Church "forgave" Galileo in 1981. The Pope recanted on behalf of his church. It is now 2007.
Dion lives in a delusional state of narcissism, of Egoism, and denial of reality.
...-

"Not until 1981 did the Roman Catholic Church officially forgive Galileo."
http://tinyurl.com/2sat4c

Since when is a fever was fatal and supposed to last forever?

Last time I had one, I didn't rush like a lunatic to the doctor and demand that the doctor pay enormous sums of money to me because "it was his fault" I had the fever.

Valerie Fabricant was also university educated was he not, if todays universitys are yardsticks for intelligence measurements I will stick with my education. If believing every nut that the pathetic MSM gives a podium and wails about golbal warming is part of a university education then the term useful idiots applies. Critical thinkers these people are not, they are as the little oriental called Steve Martins dog in the Jerk, Shitheads.

To borrow the analogy:

Harper is saying "Let's pick the baby up so it doesn't fall of off the ledge."

The Left-bots are saying, "Let's build a big expensive fence but leave a huge gate open so the baby can fall through anyway."

ie: harper is saying the whole thing is useless if India and China don't agree. All the commonwealth countries can pose and make broad plans but at the end of the day they're like little yap dogs who got muzzled while the big dogs in the pack are howling at the moon.

Today's Globe & Mail poll:

Do you agree that global warming is "an emergency unlike anything humankind has ever faced before?"

Yes

56%

1653 votes
No

44%

1293 votes

The babies are plummeting?? Wonder if this moonbat is standing outside the abortuaries saving the babies that are "plummeting" inside?Funny how we can rip them from the womb but not allow them to crawl off buildings. Educated into imbecility.

The helpless baby analogy is a strange one for a leftoid to use.
...so if the mother agrees, and the baby isn't quite out of womb, is it OK to yank it and then push it over the edge?

I went to our town's Christmas parade and tree lighting which was preceded by a prayer to God. The parade was long and the weather was FREEZING!

Watching CTV, they were showing the weather predictions for Canada with a huge rectangle covering almost the ENTIRE country calling for below normal temperatures. I almost felt guilty after noticing that I live in the one tiny part of the country predicted to have normal temperatures. Almost...

It should still be fun to watch the spin this winter.

If you go to the Chilliwackjob paper to read the article,you can vote on the use of tazers. So far the 'yes' crowd is leading at 70%.

I think if the writer was attempting to make a point, he might at least have used facts rather than metaphor.

Obviously he has no facts.

But then, who needs facts when you've got Al Gore. And babies. And, and, a puppy as well.

'The baby and the puppy are crawling to the edge,' is far more horrifiic.

I think if the writer and others like him represent the future of mankind, we can only hope for their dire predictions to come true.

right now there are babies crawling to the edge of lawns in Prince George as we speak--- Hot Cross Hedy.

quote: (I'll refrain from commenting on this, as the writer is university educated and I'm not.)

Well, as we all know, even a 'versity edumakashin don't necessarily insulate you against ingrained stupidity... Nor does the lack of said education preclude one from exercising what's colloquially referred to as COMMON SENSE.

I'll take your opinion any day Kate.

"The babies are plummeting"

Somewhere this guy's j-school prof is groaning; assuming he had one.
As for his university experience in science, i first studied global warming in 1988. The prof told us in no uncertain terms that CO2 leads to higher temps. Then at a coffee break i heard him discussing the possibility it might not turn out that way....but after the break, he was right back to unquestioning certainty, testifyin' the party line.

oh maz2. You have managed to ENTIRELY miss the point. What Mr. Dion is saying, is at the time Galileo was being branded as a heretic for proposing ideas which the Church opposed. EVERYBODY in the know, knew that the sun revolved around the earth.

Today however, it is the AGW church. EVERYBODY in the know, knows that the earth is warming due to human activity.

It has nothing to do with whether Galileo hisself was pardoned by the church, and everything to do with how dissenters are treated by those who know all.

The funny part is that Citoyen Dion is on the side of the Church (UN, AGW Hystericals) and attempting to crush the modern Galileos.

*
Wait, I wanna play too... is he holding a pitchfork?

*

Banachek - nice comment on the left and their commitment to the welfare of babies/abortions!

Agree, irwin daisy, if the university-educated, aka brainwashed twit, had any capacity for thought, he'd use facts rather than metaphors. Is he aware that, factually, the AGW science is strongly questioned as 'full of hot air'?

Note what he advocates. He wants a reduction in income taxes and the tax base to be focused around 'carbon emissions'. He's a money-laundering brainwashed twit!

The industries that employ workers will be taxed because they produce carbon emissions. There will be less tax income from employment, because he wants a reduction in income tax. Will the increase in industrial taxation offset the decrease in personal taxation?

Oh, and the industries will naturally increase the costs of their products. So, the 'saved' income taxes will be spent by the worker, on the increased costs of those goods.

This also means that there'll be nothing left for the factories or for the govt to pay for technological changes to reduce those industrial emissions.

And nothing left for research to develop new forms of energy.

That's what brainwashing in a university can do to you. Or, it might just be that he's naturally stupid.

On the bright side, Futurama is now resurrected and Algore did some voiceovers (in the year 3000 20th century celebrities are preserved in glass jars and they talk). Expect Groening and Cohen to take more potshots in this new show.

Exactly ! Dion is so stupid, he doesn't realize that he among those who are "attempting to crush the modern Galileos.".

Bartinsky at December 1, 2007 10:29 AM referred to Steve Martin and Shithead

Uh-oh, you'd better watch what you post eh. I'm a BIG Steve Martin fan, so if you start that up I'll escalate with the quotes.

Here's one: "The greatest thing you can do is surprise yourself."

"They must be able to unequivocally show that their work is sound and reproducible."

Where has their work been reproducible? The argument that this cycle of global warming is unnatural and irreversible rests solely on computer modeling. And the fact is that most of the IPCC's predictions that could be measured have been wildly overstated.

Some of these overstatements are due to a cooling trend since 1998 -- which won't be helped by predictions that this winter will be Canada's coldest in 15 years.

As far as I can tell the "environmentalist's" philosphy seems to be:
Save the Earth - kill yourself

What if you spent all your money padding your house with mattresses to prevent accidental injuries only to find out you don't have enough money left to buy food. Resources are always scarce and it is always best to determine where is the best place to deploy them. Do we spend multi billions to accomplish nothing or do we deploy the money were it will do some good. Harper has it right.

I would like to know what so-called 'university' this half-wit belongs to so I can avoid sending my kids there.

Like all failed political cult-based science projects, Kyoto collapses under even the briefest of examinations. Fortunately the grievance crowd is loosing steam and will ultimately fail in their attempts to perpetuate this endless disaster montage.

Saw a story this morning where Florida resort operators are suing a meteorologist for predicting Florida would be besieged by an enormous amount of hurricane activity.

Based on that obviously erroneous information, the suit allleeges, tourists were afraid to book vacations in Florida.

Run away! Run away! The sky is falling!

'I fully understand that Kyoto, as a brand if you will, has been demonized'

FFS. If useful idiots do not read this from the gorical himself and do not realize that he is a snake oil salesman, nothing will convince them.

What...no kittens?

There HAVE to be kittens! Preferably those cute little white ones in the toilet paper commercial.

Speaking of....

Figuratively, re the so-called critical thinking skills and regard for truth--what's THAT?--of our young people, the sky IS falling.

Re a critical mass of them: their sense of entitlement is huge, while I believe their brains are growing smaller and more self-referential by the minute.

I work daily with these "live for the moment, all-me-all-the-time, plugged in" kids and, over the past nearly four decades, have seen a precipitous decline in both their willingness and ability to entertain (pun unintended!) any thought outside their own minuscule orbit. As I’ve said many times, the educational establishment, made up of self-referential, immature (read, leftie) idiots, encourages the most egregious non-thinking and selfishness. The inmates run the asylum. Scary.

I doubt that the writer of this garbage has the capacity to accept the criticisms here: hey, “we get to do what we want and think what we want, and don’t have to listen to YOU. So there!”

Kyrie eleison. (And who the hell is He?)

"The babies are plummeting. There is just time to catch them (with a tax shift to carbon). As a nation, I’d like to see us either save this generation, or at least stop pretending we care about them."

But Mr. Bachelor of Arts, I never did pretend to care about your metaphorical plummeting babies and never will.

Real babies are dying by the thousand in leftist (you) supported abortion mills.

Climate change occurs every season, sometimes more than other times and that will continue no matter how many imaginary babies fall off your imaginary building and no matter how much money Al Gorpone and his gang try to steal from us.

God Bless the commons sense Stephen Harper.

And by the way, you write like a ninth grader.

[quote]I would be curious to know if writer had input into the Y2K computer frenzy as well.[/quote]

Joe, that had a hidden agenda supported by those with worthless doctorates, but I don't think it was driven by BIG oil Profits. Good thinking though.

[quote] Carbon dioxide, however, is odourless, tasteless and invisible, so we have to rely on the knowledge of experts. [/quote]

That would also be true of "Fairy Farts" but GOOD science would need to prove the existence of fairies to 99.99999% before we invested in Collection technology. The "Command & Control" Powers of a UN coalition would be focused on locating & controlling the Fairies.

BIG OIL PROFIT CAPS work for me!

Fox News headline: Top Corporations Demand Action on Global Warming.

The Bali Communiqué

This communiqué comes from the business leaders of over 150 global companies [those stalwarts of the Chicken Little, lefty, Y2Kyoto community]. It is being issued in advance of the United Nations Climate Change Conference 2007, taking place from December 3 to 14 in Bali, Indonesia.

The scientific evidence is now overwhelming. Climate change presents very serious global social, environmental and economic risks and it demands an urgent global response.

As business leaders, it is our belief that the benefits of strong, early action on climate change outweigh the costs of not acting:

* The economic and geopolitical costs of unabated climate change could be very severe and globally disruptive. All countries and economies will be affected, but it will be the poorest countries that will suffer earliest and the most
* The costs of action to reduce greenhouse gas emissions in order to avoid the worst impacts of climate change are manageable, especially if guided by a common international vision
* Each year we delay action to control global emissions increases the risk of unavoidable consequences that will likely necessitate even steeper reductions in the future, causing potentially greater economic, environmental and social disruption
* The shift to a low-carbon economy will create significant business opportunities. New markets for low carbon technologies and products, worth billions of dollars, will be created if the world acts on the scale required

In summary, we believe that tackling climate change is the pro-growth strategy. Ignoring it will ultimately undermine economic growth.

It is our view that a sufficiently ambitious, international and comprehensive legally-binding United Nations agreement to reduce greenhouse gas emissions will provide business with the certainty it needs to scale up global investment in low-carbon technologies. We believe that an enhanced and extended carbon market needs to be part of this framework as it offers the necessary flexibility, allows for a cost-effective transition and provides financial support to developing countries.

In order to avoid dangerous climate change, the overall targets for emissions reduction must be guided primarily by science. Even an immediate peaking in global emissions would require a subsequent reduction of at least 50% by 2050, according to the Fourth Assessment Report of the Intergovernmental Panel of Climate Change, and the later the peak in emissions, the greater the required reduction. All countries will need to play their part but we recognise that the greatest effort must be made by those countries that have already industrialised.

At the United Nations Climate Change Conference in December in Bali, Indonesia, countries will have an opportunity to agree a work-plan of comprehensive negotiations to ensure such an agreement can be signed in Copenhagen in 2009, to come into force post 2012.

We urge world leaders to seize this window of opportunity.

In return, we pledge to engage positively with governments to help develop the policies and measures that are needed internationally and nationally for the business sector to contribute effectively to building a low carbon economy.

Signatories

This lunatic must have his BA in Ethnic Puppetry. If this is what we are getting for our education dollar, then we might just as well shut down the universities.

Since I -am- university educated, I feel safe in commenting that the author seems to be one of those special kinds of idiot that only years of university education can produce. See Kate's previous post on the American Anthropological Society's annual meeting for another example.

In their search for something new to whine about, these Ivory Tower leftists have long since used up all the -real- injustices in the world, and have even used up all the reasonable, believable manufactured ones. Hence, these days they have to make up unreasonable, non-believable rubbish like this.

Tax cut please. Start with liberal arts programs at universities. We could do with a few less PoMo relativist wankers in this country.

And what of the fate of these plummeting babies? Many will land in forests and survive due to the warmer temperatures. They will become feral and fussy, a roving band of savage babies in need of changing.
I fear this global warming future. Indeed, the living will envy the dead.

"As business leaders, it is our belief that the benefits of strong, early action on climate change outweigh the costs of not acting:"

Yes ... act early, really early, so early that we can get the tax reforms and the cash moving before it becomes apparent the there is no global warming and the GHG thing is a scam.

I am hoping the the reluctance of people to actually open their wallets for anything they can't take home in a box or bag, will prevail and this bull crap will not happen.

And I am very curious, I have never met anyone who expressed any concern, knowledge of, or opinion on any of the often mentioned poorest nations. So like let's stop pretending that matters.

One last items before I go back to bed with a book

... The numerous corporate signatories linked on Sally's comment above, are merely hedging their bets at the very least so as not to piss off their climate change believer customers.

At the very worst are share holders in the carbon credit companies that will care for our stolen money in an oh-so caring way after the fees are extracted.

Sally - apart from the babble, the Bali Document is very specific; it has one and only one agenda. Money transference from the industrial countries to the 'developing countries'.

Its focus is not on the development of new technology to produce lower emissions, but on the CARBON MARKET, and specifically, on 'financial support for developing countries'.

The 'already industrialized countries' must pay a 'carbon tax' to the 'developing countries'. This will enable these latter countries to industrialize.

The thing is, the document does not provide for any money set aside from this 'carbon tax' to develop lower-emitting innovative technologies. Nope.

And, vitally important, the developing countries are exempt from emissions standards. They can put up, as China does, coal factories at the rate of one a week, which spew tons of CO2 emissions as well as pollutants, without the UN Kyoto or Bali Boys batting an eye.

That's because this project of the UN has zilch to do with combatting carbon emissions and everything to do with getting the West to pay for the industrialization of the 'developing countries'.

right, john west, the intermediary brokerage firms that handle 'carbon credit' money transfers, hope to make billions out of this for their 'brokerage fees' in this corrupt money laundering agenda of the UN.

My history may be a bit rusty regarding Galileo and the Church, the Church in its debate with Galileo deferred to the scientific community who formed a consensus that indeed the sun moved around the earth and not the other way around. The Church acted as the UN IPCC and banned the denier. Dion picks the wrong analogy again.

Where are those cribs on fire - I may need to go stand by one to warm up when I'm downtown today freezing my derriere off.

If we do as Gore says, crippling our economies for a non-exisent threat, we're in for a big surprise on April 13, 2037. Who gives a damn what sea levels are going to be like 100 years from now if all life on earth is wiped out by an asteroid (Apophis) 30 years from now? Let's concentrate our energies on REAL existential threats.

I think this whole Kyoto thing can be put into perspective with just three lines (no pun), just like a hockey coach, assessing the situation and playing the odds. What's at stake, what are the chances of it happening and what is the reward.

#1 Is long term, unusual Global warming happening ?? Highly debatable. (10% chance ) Mann's hockey stick graph a proven fraud.

#2 Is man responsible for a significant part of the warming ? Highly debatable. (20% chance) CO2 conc. has always varied / the sun is the climate driver.

#3 Would there be any detrimental effects ? Highly debatable, especially for Canada (Brrr) (20% chance) Land of ice & snow.

So, doing the math; 0.10 X 0.20 X 0.20 = 0.004 > a 0.4% chance of something bad happening down the road.

For this 0.4 % risk we are supposed to (according to Al Gore, David Suzuki, Maurice Strong, Stepahane Dion) immediately give up;

Room temperature
The second vehicle
Jetting away to a warm vacation
Dishwashers
The second home, cottage
Pleasure craft
Office air conditioning
Elevators
Steak and chops
Imported fruits and veggies
Cruise ships
Air ambulance
Houses and condos greater than 985 sq ft
Winter vacation homes
Vehicles with more than 140 hp (not a bad idea, actually )
The beer fridge http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,313844,00.html

Considering the risks : reward above, how many Canadians would still be in the 'fanatical' environmentalist's camp ??

IMO, too many politicians listened to David Suzuki instead of Patrick Moore. One is a great Canadian the other is a well known Canadian. (thanks to the CBC)
One has a lot of credibility and a good track record ---- the other one worships Al Gore.

Well I am university educated and I WILL comment. The author prescribes to the idea that a carbon tax is the ultimate solution to the global warming issue. Unfortunately he/she has presumed a premise to be true on which the entire argument is based, when in fact, as any university educated person should know, you must first SHOW that your premise is true. The alarmist tone of the article also shows how little this writer has taken away from his/her university experience. Always question, never presume. This article is chalk full of odd metaphors and Gore like religious diatribe. If this writer was my student he/she would have received a failing grade, not for the opinion or the subject, but for the poorly constructed argument and perverse choice of prose.

I'm continually amazed at what passes for argument. Gore's "the planet has a fever" somehow leads to helping babies who are sick; except, the planet does not have a fever. False analogies are the order of the day, it seems. Anyway, how can one make a scientific argument using baby analogies?

ET, the Bali document writer makes their opinion clear that a carbon credit trading system needs to be developed:

"We believe that an enhanced and extended carbon market needs to be part of this framework as it offers the necessary flexibility, allows for a cost-effective transition and provides financial support to developing countries."

Why financial support if we are the ones doing the cut in production. Are we to take resources from our economies to give to those who's emissions are growing at much faster rates? Then they will develop clean fuel technologies? China? India? What nonsense. They should be arguing we develop those technologies, given our industrial and R&D infrastructures, so they can be used by developing world. The idiocy of this position is breathtaking. Hypocrisy is another term that comes to mind.

BTW, nobody checks their credentials or objectivity. I noticed AXA (insurance company) is one of the signatories. Won't they benefit from the climate change scare by charging more for insurance premiums, as Lloyd's have already done? I personally don't think such an agenda exists, that this is simply a public relations exercise, but a dangerous one at that.

ET: the Bali Document is very specific; it has one and only one agenda. Money transference from the industrial countries to the 'developing countries'.

That's a rather dubious argument, ET, given that this Bali document was produced and signed not by the UN or AGW advocates but by 150 corporate businesses all headquartered in industrial countries. What interest might, say, Shell have in a money transference scheme?

The thing is, the document does not provide for any money set aside from this 'carbon tax' to develop lower-emitting innovative technologies. Nope.

Setting aside money for R&D would be a specific policy decision to be made at the national, not global, level of governance. You are blaming the document for failing to specify policy commitments that it neither has the legal jurisdiction nor interest to provide.

The carbon market component is just one (necessary) piece of the pie. Setting legally-binding emissions reduction targets gives businesses reassurance that a future market demand will exist for lower-emissions products/innovation. Clearly, the statement that "a sufficiently ambitious, international and comprehensive legally-binding United Nations agreement to reduce greenhouse gas emissions will provide business with the certainty it needs to scale up global investment in low-carbon technologies" is in keeping with private sector interests regarding investing in the development of technological innovations.

I think this whole Kyoto thing can be put into perspective with just three lines (no pun), just like a hockey coach, assessing the situation and playing the odds. What's at stake, what are the chances of it happening and what is the reward.

#1 Is long term, unusual Global warming happening ?? Highly debatable. (10% chance ) Mann's hockey stick graph a proven fraud.

#2 Is man responsible for a significant part of the warming ? Highly debatable. (20% chance) CO2 conc. has always varied / the sun is the climate driver.

#3 Would there be any detrimental effects ? Highly debatable, especially for Canada (Brrr) (20% chance) Land of ice & snow.

So, doing the math; 0.10 X 0.20 X 0.20 = 0.004 > a 0.4% chance of something bad happening down the road.

For this 0.4 % risk we are supposed to (according to Al Gore, David Suzuki, Maurice Strong, Stepahane Dion) immediately give up;

Room temperature
The second vehicle
Jetting away to a warm vacation
Dishwashers
The second home, cottage
Pleasure craft
Office air conditioning
Elevators
Steak and chops
Imported fruits and veggies
Cruise ships
Air ambulance
Houses and condos greater than 985 sq ft
Winter vacation homes
Vehicles with more than 140 hp (not a bad idea, actually )
The beer fridge

Considering the risks : reward above, how many Canadians would still be in the 'fanatical' environmentalist's camp ??

IMO, too many politicians listened to David Suzuki instead of Patrick Moore. One is a great Canadian the other is a well known Canadian. (thanks to the CBC)
One has a lot of credibility and a good track record ---- the other one worships Al Gore.

Sounds good Sally. There's only one problem, AGW is balderdash. Making carbon trading a get-rich-quick scam. Call me crazy, but I just don't want to contribute any tax money to something like that.

Why not let it sink or swim based on the collective conscience of the global citizenry? If its such a great thing everybody should be climbing all over themselves to get some, no need to jam it down our throats at gun point.

Can Sally or anyone else explain how carbon credits remove even a molecule of CO2 from the atmosphere. Not in theory, in reality; not a hope, but in certainty (after all isn't science supposed to search for this?). Any takers?

A hundred and fifty corporations ---- out of what ? a hundred and fifty 'thousand' !!??

About the same ratio as fanatics to normals :)

"The babies are plummeting?"

About damn time, if you ask me.

Shamrock: Then they will develop clean fuel technologies? China? India? What nonsense. They should be arguing we develop those technologies, given our industrial and R&D infrastructures, so they can be used by developing world. The idiocy of this position is breathtaking.

Don't be so sure of that. I'm not defending China's environmental record, which is dismal overall, but neither should it be said that they are unwilling or unable to voluntarily initiate more sustainable practices. Dongtan is one small example.

Hypocrisy is another term that comes to mind.

Also hypocritical would be industrialized Western nations saying to China, India, and other emerging economic powers: "Yes, it's true that we were able to build up our massive levels of infrastructure, economic capacity, and wealth throughout the late-19th and 20th centuries without our industries being constrained by any emissions standards, but now that you guys are on the cusp of a similar industrial/economic transformation, we are going to force you to play by a different, harder set of rules."

A carbon market is not perfect. No policy ever is. There are always winners and losers. But China and India will grow their economies no matter what. Telling them that they can't grow them in the same manner that we did (a manner that worked out really well for us, but less so for the environment and everyone else) would be, as I said, rather hypocritical. Plus, they'll just tell us to bugger off, which would all but guarantee even higher levels of pollution coming from those regions. A carbon market gives these emerging nations an incentive to proactively reduce their emissions, even though our nations never did at that earlier, crucial stage of economic gestation, without sabotaging their prospects for long-term growth and prosperity. It gives them enough of a carrot for them to come on board with the global community, even if it isn't in their absolute economic self-interests to do so.

I work with Engineers (University "Edjucated")

Of course University means you know more than anyone else and are better.

Just ask those pack of retards...............

More proof that BC produces the most potent drugs.

Kate, I notice that the article carries today's date. How do you pick up on stuff like this in the most obscure rags while it's still "fresh"?

Kate, I notice that the article carries today's date. How do you pick up on stuff like this in the most obscure rags while it's still "fresh"?

Sally,

The big oil and other companies are lined up to get government largess (stolen from us) to pad their R&D budgets while they continue with business as usual. Can you not connect dots?

As soon as there is no more conventional energy to make a lot of money with, they will perhaps release their findings.

I live in Mexico City...it was 5*C this morning and nearby there was frost on the ground. Here the people of MXC are wondering what the down side of warming is.

I avoided a university education and thereby am still able to think for myself.

Without a university education, I didn't feel owed a government job, so I started a business and I now pass those savings along to my customers.

Irwin says..

**I think if the writer was attempting to make a point, he might at least have used facts rather than metaphor.

Obviously he has no facts.**

Modus operandus Librano$ eh?

My opinions are only valid until someone better informed corrects them. Then I offer thanks, not curses.

Consider that ExxonMiobile Chevron and Shell are the most powerful of corporations.

They contribute to ALL political parties and so have great lobby power.

They have a few multi-Billion$ refineries in place and aside from some loose talk about a new one in Alberta, have not built a new one since the eighties.

There is no shortage of oil, only a mildly limited refining capacity.

We have mining claims with tags carrying the name * Standard Oil* here on Vancouver Island. There are oil slicks in the swampy tundra like areas here.

With gas and diesel pumps from coast to coast in North America laying golden eggs in the Billion$ every day and every bomb or busted pipe line swelling the price of gas, one can understand how electric and compressed air vehicles are advancing so slowly. Dynasty and Zenn NEVs just now licensed for sale in British Columbia.

This is only one facet. I did say the picture was vastly complex.. eh?

Dr.Soozookifly and Allgory never mention PRIORITY ONE.. Retrofit Coal-gen plants with carbon collection clean coal tech.

It is expensive, but why do these Ivory Tower University educated idiots have no focus,... no clear priority?= TG

John West says "Sally,

The big oil and other companies are lined up to get government largess (stolen from us) to pad their R&D budgets while they continue with business as usual. Can you not connect dots?

As soon as there is no more conventional energy to make a lot of money with, they will perhaps release their findings."

Right....and Che Guevara was a great military strategist and saviour of the little guy.

the only CBC'r worth the money

hmmmm.. two tier global warming !!

http://www.cbc.ca/national/blog/video/rex_murphy/bali_logic.html

I had a friend once who despite being a successful businessman, despised free enterprise; who owned 3 properties but hated property rights; who obsessed on "global warming" but bought a $80K 8-cylinder gaz-guzzler; who fiercely defended public education and attacked vouchers, but sent his two sons to expensive private schools.

At the end of a e-mail correspondence he presented a case-closed link to a story about a group of high-profile CEOs supporting climate change legislation. Strangely the ONLY common ground we achieved was our shared contempt for corporate-government consumer-screwing collusion.

Re: Kate's parenthetical comment: I think most of you missed her intended irony.

I find it interesting that people used to go to university to develop some ability to think and reason. It used to be an imperative that students learn the art of 'critical thinking'. To enable the connecting of dots and not take everything at face value.

Now the university indoctrination teaches that no critical thinking is allowed, only a chanting of the mantra of collectivist ideals. This is what leads sheep to slaughter ... with a blank smiley face to boot.

Anyone still able to think knows this.

Now that Gore has explained it to me at a level I can understand -- man, we are in trouble! Hey, did he call me flame retarded?

What kills me is the absolute refusal by the AGW crowd to do even the most basic research. For example, Honda has ads promoting their fuel cell car, saying that it only emits water vapour. It takes about five minutes on Google to find out that of all the supposed "green house gases", water vapour is by far the biggest culprit. Not only is there more of it in the atmosphere than CO2, it traps radiant energy at more points in the spectrum than CO2 does. Idiots.

So is this the new harp of the Left, the Right of the spectrum are out killing babies? Bill Blaikie made that charge about George Bush some time ago in our very own House of Commons re the Irag war.

Let's say Al Gore is a bloated ignoramus, buffoon, windbag and add mental midget. He is ripe for getting his big fat ass sued making such accusations with no foundation. Calling people murderers on such a topic as Kyoto is beyond the pale and well over the top.

He should be forced to apologize and beg forgiveness.

Further there's no sign of global warming in these parts, gotta be setting record lows, he can come visit and chill out, dangling parts will need woollies.

Have a look at these four videos of a lecture that Prof Bob Carter presented to the Australian Environmental Foundation (each clip is about nine minutes). He gives a great overview of the history of the world’s climate:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOLkze-9GcI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vN06JSi-SW8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCXDISLXTaY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpQQGFZHSno

AGW alarmists will be shocked, shocked, outraged by what Carter says.

H/T to Speller on the western standard blog.

Out here in the Left Coast a number of small "News Papers" have been appearing over the last few years. There are several print versions handed out on the transit systems and a few that find their way into restaurants and coffee shops. Some are disguised as "seniors advocacy" papers. It seems the NDP and supporters are trying to get their message out in a subtle manner. In one paper, supposedly a seniors advocate, they upheld the great gift of universal health care granted us by our greatest Canadian, TD.
Surprisingly; one of these "news papers", is produced by one of millionaire Jimmy Pattison's companies. An editorial page article in Jimmy's "24 Hours" was entitled: "Harper: Canada's gift to Bush".

Yep they're out there and they have computers and e-mail.

It's going to be a cold winter. The baby is more likely to freeze to death than die in a house fire.

Now hold on there... if the goracle wants to take away my beer fridge he is in for the fight of his life!

I though the babies were spinning out of control into the void along with the Earth. Now I'm told they're plummeting. I wish the experts would make their minds up.

Why do you read this stuff, Kate.

If the Leftards want to to do something about reducing consumption, overpopulation, etc., they should all get together, drink their cyanide laced kool-aid and become one with whatever it is they believe in.

When you are bored one day, go to any university website and peruse the degree subjects on offer, then come away smiling. The time will be well spent and will confirm your suspicion that "university educated" or even "university degree" may mean very little.

In this case, we can guess that maybe the Chilliwack writer attended a university in BC, possibly Simon Fraser - well known as Margaret Trudeau's alma mater - do I need to say more?

-2 and snow in C-wack today. Probability of Falling Baby Index (PFB) 0.00%

Get those plants covered.

Sally - I'd like you to look up "rent seeking".

Brrrr!

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20071130/cold_winter_071130/20071130?hub=TopStories&s_name=

John West says, "Now the university indoctrination teaches that no critical thinking is allowed, only a chanting of the mantra of collectivist ideals. This is what leads sheep to slaughter ... with a blank smiley face to boot. Anyone still able to think knows this."

John, I encourage you to stand back from yourself just a little bit. Just enough to realize just how unoriginal and predictable your own thoughts and opinions often are, and the extent to which they appear to outsiders as nothing more than self-reinforcing recitations of a merely different, but no less collectively echoed, constellation of pre-formed ideologies. Maybe then you'd be a little less smugly self-assured of your own critical faculties, and a little less dismissive of those of everyone you disagree with. Or maybe not.

Oops, the link was in the next item. (blush)

KevinB....... bingo, you win the prize:-)))))

sally..... any astute business person will prepare themselves ( business wise)for future changes and opportunities. Also the people who sit on their BOARDS sit on many boards and thusly have a personal financial stake in this "game", and that would be in more than one way. The carbon credit scheme is one, cheap and unrestricted manufacturing opportunities in "developing" nations is another, "political" power is another (yes they came play politics from a corporate position). So think about what ALL the possible motives could be, not just one motive!!!

Sally is ignorant of third way socialism.

"John, I encourage you to stand back from yourself just a little bit. Just enough to realize just how unoriginal and predictable your own thoughts and opinions often are, and the extent to which they appear to outsiders as nothing more than self-reinforcing recitations of a merely different, but no less collectively echoed, constellation of pre-formed ideologies. Maybe then you'd be a little less smugly self-assured of your own critical faculties, and a little less dismissive of those of everyone you disagree with. Or maybe not."

Rory,

You make my point in more than one way. Firstly you are hurt that you have paid so much money for the overly sophisticated and unnecessary vocabulary you used to thwart me.

Secondly, you end your comment with a ' or maybe not'. That tells me you have completely absorbed into your psyche that nothing can be certain ... the moral relevance thing haunts you even in your insults to others.

Thirdly, you have made no reference to what it is you are upset with me about other than that I am apparently not part of your particular collective, whatever that may be.

So, speak in plain terms the way your mama tried to teach you (for I am a mere high school drop out) or go get back to the Globe and Mail editorials where you can do your bobble head routine uninterupted.

Now an asteroid,,thats it I'm outta here.
Be careful folks,theys talkin bout climate change ,one way or tuther,thattaway theys covered

This is all so simple really . Gaia's a woman , no ?
There is only one man on this planet who can solve mankind's current AGW crisis ....Hugh Heffner . When it comes to talking the fairer sex into any thing , Heff's the guy .
Think about it . Invite her over to the mansion , pour a few cocktails in her ......and bam ! They make their way down to the grotto . Go for a dip . Heff charms the thong off her , and voila ! Gaia does what every chick in these circumstances invariably does , falls madly in love with the old perv , and starts babbling incoherently about these " hot flashes " she gets from time to time .

Heff : " Hot flashes ? Sounds like menopause ."

Gaia : " I get them every ten thousand years or so , make me a total bitch ."

Heff : "Hmmmm , you don't look a day over six thousand ."

Gaia : " Kiss me you fool , all I wanted was some loving ."

Heff : " You should think about doing a lay out for the magazine ."

Gaia : " Kinda like the fold out maps in National Geographic ? "

Heff : " Yeah , kinda . So , I add you to my stable , you'll cool it for a while ? "

Gaia : " Of course , Hugh . Any thing ... any thing for you . "

Global crisis averted , all thanks to the smartest man on earth ..... Hugh Freaking Heffner .
Better hurry tho , he ain't getting any younger .

"Re: Kate's parenthetical comment: I think most of you missed her intended irony."
(MND, 2:54PM)

I spent 4 semesters in university, but not in any one of the faculties (Law, Commerce, Medicine, Engineering, a few others... arts NOT being one, for example) from which I could have learned anything of a truly practical nature. I worked on a loading dock for 10 months prior to enrolling in university; frankly, I learned considerably more in 10 months on that dock than I learned in 2 years on the campus.

terrence (3:13PM)... just watched your 1ST link. That speaker, Bob Carter, is a hoot! Very engaging, as well. I'm off to watch 3 other links. Good find.

The Global Warming Benefit Dinner

Emcee: Attention, attention, everyone! I want to thank such a wonderful and warm and celebrated group for attending our benefit dinner to assist in the very grave cause of global warming.

Later in the evening, we will hear from Ambassador Kwanzaa who will explain the horrible consequences of global warming on his small African country, and I can only hope that all of you will be as moved as we have been and dig deeply into your checkbooks.

We deeply appreciate the attendance of Congressman Wrangler from Harlem and our beloved Senator Schumann for their attendance. Let's give them both a huge hand.

Audience: [enthusiastic applause]

Emcee: Naturally, this whole gala dinner would not be possible were it not for the vision, the compassion, of one wonderful man who is responsible for all of us being here today, and of course I'm talking a personal friend of so many of us, and the man I play squash with every Thursday, Winston Niles Rumingford III.

Audience: [applause, as a distinguished, white-haired gentleman in a tuxedo rises unsteadily to his feet, inebriated, beaming beneficently at the socially prominent and politically well-connected socialites gathered in the room]

Emcee: Winston, I know I speak for so many of your friends when I say to you that your years as someone who has distinguished himself sitting on boards of many corporations, that this benefit on behalf of the really wonderful people of this country, to help strike out against the scourge of global warming, may be the pinnacle of your career.

When we had difficulty importing European craftsmen to work on yachts, you instantly swung into action with a benefit dinner, alerting our politicians, and as a consequence we came home with the cup that year.

When we needed a benefit dinner to fight the scourge of Epstein-Bar, you were in the lead.

When someone had to alert the world of carpal tunnel syndrome, Winston Niles Rumingford III stood in the breach.

When no one would bid high enough for that Rubens at Sotheby's 3 years ago, you came forward.

I think since we are all among friends here that it will be no secret that when Leonoado di Caprio in that bit of trouble with the studio a couple of years ago, Winston Niles Ruminford III was the man who strode forward, back straight, to rectify the problem.

I could go on and on , but before I turn the floor over to Muffy Carrington, I just want to point out that Liz van der Hoot is in the audience.

[A matronly woman, dripping with diamonds rises to her feet with a martini in one hand and waves to the assembly with the other, and she is paying close attention to the contributors who write checks for over $100,000.]

I think we'll soon know who's going to be on the list for her weekend at her lovely compound in Martha's Vineyard next year.

[Genial laughter, signifying the understanding of seasoned veterans of society ripples across the crowd.)

Emcee: And now, I'll ask Muffy Carrington to come up and offer a few words before Ambassador Kwanzaa takes the stage and gives us a heart-wrenching presentation and film on the depredations of global warming on his small African country, so rich in arts, crafts, and culture. I know that the wonderful people in this room and all our wonderful friends in Newport, Bermuda, and other places in America can truly be depended upon to demonstrate our open heart and our vast caring that is the signature of our compassion and our absolutely passionate refusal to allow cthonic forces to keep global warming in its horrible advance.

Muffy? ...

...unwilling to agree to binding targets in the curbing of climate change...blah, blah, blah...

Actually, that, I think, was one of Harper's finest moments. It's been a long time since I felt proud to be a Canadian. (And that, too, was courtesy of Harper, who, alone, pointed out at the UN that Hezbollah was actually behaving in a barbaric fashion, and that Israel was entitled to defend herself.)

@ Canadian Infidel: "It should still be fun to watch the spin this winter."

All you have to remember is that, in the Church of AGW, evidence that points to AGW is "fact"; evidence that points to something else is "anomaly".

Elizabeth May, just this afternoon, on my radio in my city and I'm not making this up wants to replace income taxes and payroll taxes and property taxes with CARBON TAXES.

She figures that will reduce consumption???? When governments and all the creaming me, me, me firsts out there want more money and consumption goes down then what?

Oh yeah - prices go up. But, I guess the Green Party is Internationally funded by all the lefty loonies who have speculated on a multi billion dollar carbon market as their next big cash cow.

You know how Maurice Strong so proudly said - in order to get people to do what you want to you have to SCARE THEM.

Is the Global Warming fear mongering proof enough of the reason Maurince Strong and his buddies are multi billionaires???

We the Sheep as they say. And, all good little sheep need sheep herders like Elizabeth May and Stephane Dion, Gore, Suzuki and the thrid world dictators at the United Nations looking forward to a nice big carbon cash grab from all of us.

Bah. Bah.

Kate did post:

"I'll refrain from commenting on this, as the writer is university educated and I'm not."

Hell, used ta be I could never even spel scintest, now I be one.

Kyoto Kyoto Kyoto - the proKyoto bastards want higher taxes on petruleum and petroleum derivatives; but since we began to hear about Kyoto the price of a barrel of oil has gone through the roof. Everything in the way of punitive taxes that the Koyotes have wanted they have been given thanks to increasing petroleum demand and increasing tensions in the Middle East.
Do they know this? Do they understand this? Do they know anythjing? Do they understand anything?

Petroleum use is so built into our society that only rationing, or a better alternative for power, would reduce its use very much.

We are reaping now the evil fruit which a previous generation of Leftists planted when they lobbied successfully against nuclear power. Had they - or we - been rational, there would be enough power reactors to take up some of the load from petroleum.

Damn them! Damn them! And damn us, thirty years ago, for being gentle, and rational, and acquiescing.

Lorraine, welcome to the Dion-Green platform. All taxation will be based on CO2 emissions. And Stern talks about market failure? So, the tax load out of the economy will be the same; what effect would that have on behaviour and consumption. I have more money (less income tax) to pay more for gas. Yeah right. There would be incentive v.v. CO2 alright - but there would be three possibilities -

1. Develop cleaner energy technologies (no, government removed my R&D funds for such venture, and since no more taxes collected, government doesn't have funds either, unless they cut services elsewhere).

2. Accept as cost of business; anyway disposable income same, so no behaviour change necessary or even possible (getting closer to what actually happens - clearly no CO2 reductions)

3. Conform by buying carbon credits - since nowhere enough available in Canada given we are way off our GHG emission cuts, we will buy international credits (Let's see, no change in our actual emissions, in fact (eg China) will have more money to industrialize (ie-build more polluting industrial and energy plants), which leads to more pollution, not less, with no GHG reduction.)

May needs to understand there is only one taxpayer, you can change the name of the tax/fee/fine/incentive/indulgence, it remains the same to taxpayer and their macro behaviour.

If governments are going to collect more tax, then they must use them to develop non-carbon fuel technologies. Fining people as cost of business, changing name of their tax, and buying carbon credits from China, expecting them to develop those technologies, will do nothing about climate change, real or otherwise.

Sure, there are other permutations and combinations to above, but I think they will all boil down to above three, unless one actually believes top-down government can actually develop a doable energy conversion stategy. Basing all government activity to something as nebulous as CO2 emissions is doomed to failure, IMHO.

Dion wants to save the planet by closing down the clean steel mills and factories in Canada and transfering their production to dirty unregulated steel mills and factories in China.
Yup, that should save the planet.

Negative, Kate. The writer went to university, but didn't manage to wrest an education from it.

Can anyone here tell me where I can I buy some 'dead baby' offsets?

That's the thing, lorraine. What people are ignoring is that the idealistic post WWII UN is no longer operating within the idyllic dream of that era - if it ever operated in that manner.

The UN has instead become an unaccountable, gigantic agency of money laundering and corruption. The UN has been unable, because it is unwilling, to deal with any - and I repeat the word - any wars, conflicts, traumas, crises, famines - etc that have developed since its inception.

It has presided over the genocides of Rwanda and now Darfur. It has presided over the famines in Ethiopia and Somalia. It has failed to assist in any meaningful manner in any natural crisis, including the tsunami.
More and more, the agendas of Helping Others in the world have falled to the Western Nations and in particular, to the USA.

More and more, as the UN has disintegrated into corruption, it has seen itself as a rival, a black sheep rival, of the USA, for the USA has taken on the Caretaking Role abandoned by the UN.

Instead, the UN has gradually and more openly moved into corruption. The Iraq Oil-Fraud, which saw massive amounts of aid money diverted to the private banks of Saddam Hussein and his friends, and the oil controlled by his friends, which included France's Chirac and Chirac's friend, Jean Chretine.

Now, we see a more arrogant UN scam, based as was the Iraqi scam, on emotional blackmail. Iraq's images were traumatic, the threat of a 'starving population'. The current IPCC global warming images are of an apocalpytic environmental disaster. No Spielberg apocalpytic movie, frankly, can compete with the horrific images outlined to us by the UN IPCC crowd.

What is the UN solution? Think about it. A Carbon tax, otherwise known as a brown envelope for sending money to so-called 'developing nations'. These nations are exempt from pollution and emissions controls; the money is to assist them in industrializing. It isn't a loan; it isn't foreign investment. It's a straight Hand Over The Money. There is, not one, but there are TWO Brown Envelopes being promoted by the UN.

Why? The West is guilty; it has already industrialized and ought to feel guilty for doing it in advance of the 'poor nations'. Its guilt is imagized as 'emissions'. And, money. The science behind the emissions scam is inadequate and, more and more and more, being openly questioned as unreliable, and invalid.

IF, IF, the UN were sincere, dumb as it is, in its belief in AGW, then the proper response would be tactics of reducing such emissions. But, strangely and interestingly, this is not the case.
The UN does not set a 'fine' on the Bad Western Country, and insist that this 'fine' be used to improve that country's technology in fact and in research. Nope.

Instead, the 'fine' is to be sent elsewhere, to the 'Developing Country', who can use it to build a coal factory a week - which factory is exempt from pollution and emissions controls.

And, the 'carbon tax' is another Brown Envelope. It is a tax on the Western Industrial Nation, on their industries. This money, again, is not to be used by that nation to develop and install new technologies against emissions. Nope. It's the Second Brown Envelope of the UN. It's sent to that 'developing country'. For another coal plant.

Meanwhile, the Western country is not reducing its emissions. The money in those Two Brown Envelopes, which could be used to develop and install new technology is instead being sent, by UN Middle Men, who take a huge cut in the transation - to the 'developing country'. After the UN MiddleMen take their cut, the polluting and emitting coal factories can be built.

And the West's costs of living will go up; the fine paid by the industry will be passed on to the consumer. The carbon tax will be passed on to the consumer.

Meanwhile, over the globe, more emitting and polluting factories will be built in those developing countries. More emissions and pollution.

Who benefits? Certainly not the planet or the environment. But heck, those UN middlemen will get very rich very quickly. And the poor countries will have lots of new factories which may, or may not be run without corruption.

So this is what the UN has become. A massive, enormous, corrupt system of money laundering, diplomats, dictators and thieves hiding behind immunity raking in millions of personal profits....while genocides, famines, wars and terrorism, continue.

Dean Spencer, and Bill D. Cat - I, for one, deeply appreciate your humour in here. ;-) Funny stuff.

It is minus 3C here in Nanaimo today with 4 inches of snow. Last night on the CTV news they stated that we were in for the coldest winter since 1994 or earlier. An old fashioned cold winter like we know back in the old days.

Could a spin off of global warming be global cooling?

I am having trouble figuring this one out.

And we haven't had a major storm since Katina even though we have been told they will be abundant. Two years and still waiting. A hotel group in Florida is suing the agencies (sorry no specifics, I didn't write it down) for scaring away business. The amount of losses is now in the billions.

Posted by: John West at December 1, 2007 6:53 PM

"Could a spin off of global warming be global cooling?

I am having trouble figuring this one out."

actually, it really is VERY simple.

When comparing present climate change to past climate changes you just have to remember:

Ya, but... this time is different.

When explaining a cooling cycle within the present warming trend you, also, just have to remember:

Ya, but... this time is different.

Covers all the bases, and all unexplained (and unanticipated) trends. ;-)

a number of small "News Papers" have been appearing over the last few years. There are several print versions handed out on the transit systems and a few that find their way into restaurants and coffee shops

It's probably the same in every major city as the print media now finds it necessary to GIVE their stuff away. In Calgary at some downtown C-Train stations commuters almost literally have to fight their way through a swarm of "information distribution technicians" shoving these rags in their faces.

Greg in Dallas, 5:41..

That was an inspired word picture of an Ivory Tower fund raiser. Winston Niles Rumminford III.

Where did I meet the grand gent before? Or was that Rummingford? = TG

My skit was a little too US-centric, but believe me, the people that I was satirizing stopped having specific nationality a long time ago.

And the point that I am trying to advance, that I do not think has been considered follows:

Global warming has become a cause celebre, and as a consequence very wealthy, powerful, and politically connected people simply do not care whether it is true or not.

You have rational arguments against the existence of global warming? They don't care. You have data contradicting the idea of global warming? They don't care. You have professors and experts in the field who challenge the global warming contention? They don't care.

They don't care. They don't care. They don't care.

A cause celebre for these people is sort of like some happening constructed by an event planner. Since the cause is celebrated, it offers the possibility of people with means to elevate their status in society by demonstrating to others their compassion, awareness, and resolve to thwart the dark forces.

Except something created by an event planner doesn't have a moral, social component with a vague intellectual reference to make one seem as if they are at the nexus of global dynamics and a key player struggling against Darth Vader and the people in the Black Tower.

This is why they pay no attention to us. These wealthy patrons of "good causes" are not elected. There is no office you can call to suppress their various benefits and fund raisers that flow into the coffers at the UN and influence peddling with politicians.

The friends of the Maurice Strongs of our countries have oodles of power, and as long as this remains a cause celebre, they'll be itching to get on board. It is a vehicle to more social prominence.

TG, thanks.

I didn't remember the name exactly, but it was a character out of a novel by Kurt Vonnegut. Glad somebody appreciated it...

Greg in Dallas, 5:41

Yes, that piece had me chuckling out loud. It's probably not too far from the truth, too.

Paul

HI any one hear Rex Murphy on Cbc last night praising Harper on his position re.Bali surprised cbc allowed it

greg in Dallas

Like a few of the others I thought maybee you had found a lost manuscript that K Vonnegut wrote before he died. I enjoyed it immensly. Kilgore Trout would have been facinated

"There is a sense of hope in this country that this United States Congress will rise to the occasion and present meaningful solutions to this crisis," Gore said. "Our world faces a true planetary emergency. I know the phrase sounds shrill, and I know it's a challenge to the moral imagination."

Even Al (the shill) Gore himself admits that it sounds "shrill". Will his pill that cures all ills still fill tills for the...Whoops, my keyboard ran out of 'i's and 'l's, sorry.

Who wants to bet the author of this piece owns a bread making machine (stored in the garage, ready for the next garage sale)? Double or nothing on the food drying machine.

Let us see now,

The person that wrote the article is living in misery because Harper took leadership in a common sense approach to perceived problem. The fact that the scribe brought Bush into the debate would indicate that scribe lost the argument before a fall off the tall building and found self in fantasy land with other tall buildings and babies. Curious though, there is no mention of women and old men, minorities and other designated victim groups.

Then the author goes on with taxes, as though if there were no taxes on wages everybody would be filled with happiness that they have to pay more for products and services so that the bad, bad capitalists can make enough income to pay taxes for everyone else.

Scraping for some logic, it appears that the argument about logical thinking becomes somewhat of fairy tale with a sad ending as opposed to logical argument.

How little or how much certainty there is, is as much as to say that it’s windy.

Then the scribbler gets so wrapped in self’s mind that it becomes embarrassing.

Of course, as far as ‘experts’ (Gore, Di Caprio, etc.) and scientist (?????), take your pick as per your preference. Some will say AGW, some will say a cycle in the life of the earth and others will say we are heading for something cool. A cycle sound sensible.

Scientists relentlessly and mercilessly show the results to be reproducible (repeatability).
There is a saying, if you do the same thing over and over and expect different results you may be defined as ……..

This generation and future generations will do fine, if need they will adjust and solve problems as has been done in the past.

Seems they put the author into a tight space and self is in despair, not knowing what to do. Maybe self should get out more.

Here is a suggestion, get yourself out of the depression before it’s too late, or if you smoke dope, quit.

Oops ... foolish bet ... make that owns/owned.

Has anyone read this just released book ?

" What Is Endangered: Climate or Freedom? " Václav Klaus (President of the Czech Republic)

I would think that this man knows a thing or two about freedom -- and the loss of it.

" In my argumentation I don’t talk about climatology but about environmentalism, about an ideology which puts nature and environment and their supposed protection and preservation before and above freedom." VK

" Talking about communism, talking about europeism and talking about environmentalism is more or less, structurally, similar if not identical. The issue is always freedom and its enemies." VK

" After spending the whole day at the UN Climate Change Conference on Monday and two following days at the General Assembly I know what I am talking about." VK

" The problem is that we are confronted with many prejudices, misunderstandings and now already also vested insterests. As I said, the climate change debate is basically not about science; it is about ideology. It is not about global temperature; it is about the concept of human society. It is not about scientific ecology; it is about environmentalism." VK

It boggles the mind, how a man, from behind the Iron Curtain, can make so much sense and Al Gore can be so dumb. And the media is only now starting to report on it.

http://www.klaus.cz/klaus2/asp/clanek.asp?id=pxJQbZiEtmMH

"Carbon dioxide, however, is odourless, tasteless and invisible"

Odourless? Nope. If I take a careless sniff of rapidly vinting wine, it nearly singes my nose. Tasteless? Nope. I remember having CO2 sprayed on my tongue once at Science World. The taste is pleasant, hard to describe and instantly recognizable to anyone who has ever drunk a pop.

For the only facts referenced in this excerpt, he is batting one out of three.

Just thought I'd mention there's six inches of snow in my driveway this morning. I'll take some of that warming, please. ~:D

Actions speak louder than words..

China, through their ations are making a mockery of the Goracle and that fruitfly guy.

China is saying...

1. What global warming?
2. We have at least 30 years of catch-up
pollutting to do.
...one more time...
3. What global warming?

Communist pollution doesn't count, William. What are you anyway, some kind of [gasp!] Conservative?! Ew!

Could it be arranged so the babies are tied to puppies soaked in gasoline, ignited and booted off the building when it is dark so we can see.

You can tell your a liberal if you have a bumper sticker reading KEEP ABORTION LEGAL right next to your SAVE THE REDWOODS,SAVE THE RAINFORESTS,SAVE THE WHALES,SAVE THE SPOTTED OWL,SAVE THE FLOWER LOVING FLY bumper stickers

AL GORE would remand you of HADEES from the disney movie HERCULIES i mean BREATHING FIRE WHEN HIS MOUTH IS OPEN