I don't think there are any curly light bulb manufacturers anywhere in the world, other than in China. Regardless of what brand of bulb, if you look at where it's made the bulb package has "China" or " Imported by..." on it. Does the little bit of mercury in these new bulbs mean they're too dangerous for Canadian or other western manufacturers to make?

Stop buying stuff for Ontario from China will never happen with a Liberal in the seat of power.
LIBERALS LOVE CHINA. Just ask Chretien, Martin, Mo Strong et al. They're suffering from a severe case of China Syndrome and we're suffering from some of the unsafe crap coming from that Commie Nation.

So far they've sent us bad pet food, poisonous material in kids toys and even our food chain through products and domestic animal feed.

Never mind asking why the hell we'd be importing wheat form China either.
Never mind mentioning Human rights either, they have no respect there either.

If we go shopping with the intent not to buy anything made in China we'd be carrying a very light load.

In the case of Liar McGuinty,the lights may be on but there's nobody home. The people of Ontario just love the guy, they obviously love being lied to.

Personally, they can take those light bulbs and use them to illuminate that place where the sun don't shine. What we require in Ontario is not more dim bulbs but a few new nuclear reactors to ensure an adequate supply of energy for our future needs.

So true! A lot of Ontarians rally to stay away from "Made In China" and yet trust them to make lightbulbs with mercury? So we help China get rid of their mercury and trust that they produce this with their wonderful safety/environmental record? What happens when people begin tossing them? I seriously doubt that everyone is a good litte Do-Be and will dispose of them as hazardous waste. It doesn't take much to pollute the water.
We've taken away jobs from our own country not to mention the carbon footprint it takes to haul them all the way from China. What happens if there is an accident while carrying the bulbs?
Wake up people.

CF bulbs made in China? Dog pees on fire hydrant. Try finding one not made in China and then report back.

"Dog pees on fire hydrant?" When was that? Why hasn't it been reported? Does it affect our C02 emissions? Are pets bad for the planet? Should we sacrifice our pets in order to save the planet? Are pet-breeders the antichrist? News at 11:00.

"CF bulbs made in China? Dog pees on fire hydrant. Try finding one not made in China and then report back."
Posted by: John B at

..............

Does that have anything to do with China refusing to sign onto Kyoto?

And if Stephie Dion gets to be PM and signs onto Kyoto will Canadians be able to buy carbon credits from China to meet our Kyoto treaty obligations?

Slightly off topic but since China continues to be one of the biggest world polluters, and seemingly the only TINY BULB maker - well what the hell,
what does little off topic matter, eh?

Send them back to China when they burn out so the Chinese can cope with the mercury in these "green?" bulbs...toxic substances don't seem to bother the Chinese...perhaps out major export to China should be all the toxic stuff they sell us we can't dump here?

Correct! They are all made in China. My husband insisted on buying a few, and they don't last worth a darn. I'm stalking up on candescent unbeknown to him. If there is a divorce in this house it will because of those damn curly light bulbs.

All very curious, Joe.
Why would these companies sponsor such an endeavor that takes away from our manufacturing jobs?
What's going on here? The MSM would never throw another angle out to try to get people to think for themselves.
Any suggestions?

.

Free, harsh light, mercury filled twisty light bulbs for the serfs ... private jets for the elites.

This entire climate change bull crap is all about the re-installation of the feudal system on planet earth.

Ya, that's what it is folks.

AND NOTHING ELSE!!!

.

Ah, yes. Trust WL Mackenzie redux to post the stupid person;s position on this and just about any issue.

What you haven't really seemed to notice, Mr. Redux, is that North America and to only a slightly lesser degree Europe, already effectively outsource most of their industrial pollution by having the low cost goods that it imports manufactured in China, which benefits from the $100-200 per month jobs but is saddled with the dirty wastes from producing them.

Perhpas you migth be willing to get a group of your friends together to work in a tedious manufacturing job for $150/month here in Canada and we will manufacture them here!

Our consumerism is contributing significantly to creating the horrible messes in China and India.

However, I suppose from your thoughtful perspective it is a shame to waste an occasion to engage in crass racism, even if it arises out of a false premise.

tory_watcher,

Our consumerism is providing the means for the Chinese and Indians to develop their economies. We are doing good in this world even by being slothful, greedy and lazy. We are the best.

And how many Lie-berals have invested heavily in manufacturing in China?

Remember Cretin's team Canada trade missions?

tory_watcher: "Our consumerism is contributing significantly to creating the horrible messes in China and India."

Are you saying the demand for plastic dog sh*t is forcing China to manufacture it?

Yes, we are doing good in this world (West). But we don't do any good by kidding ourselves.

Ural and others - perhaps you might revisit one of the basic premises of capitalism, to which I certainly subscribe, which is that you build products that people want to buy or you will not be in business for long. So apprently, yes, some fools DO seem to want to purchase plastic dogs**t or nobody would manufacture it.

Marcia - "The MSM would never throw another angle out to try to get people to think for themselves."

I totally agree with Marcia regarding MSM and questions regarding the implementation of Kyoto on our economy, the curious push to have Kyoto signatory countries end up buying carbon credits from non signatory countries like China, Brazil, India etc.

Particularly when individuals like Al Gore, Suzuki, Mo Strong (the original brains behind Kyoto now apparently hanging out in China)
may well stand to gain from the Ponzi carbon selling scheme in the world.
Canadian MSM appears still to be bedded with the leftists on this shitty Kyoto treaty.

I bought the koolaid on CFLs because I wanted to save money on my power bill. Since using a lot of them I have found that: They don't make very good porch lights because even here in southern Ontario where it isn't that cold they don't work in the winter, or they take ten minutes to come on. They don't last anywhere near as long as advertised, and in most home applications where they are not left on 24/7 they don't last as long as conventional lamps. When they ban them, there will be a booming business in incandescent lamps because we will need them for our stoves, fridges, over stove vent hoods, anywhere where they must function in a harsh environment. I got one of those lamps in the mail and it said that they will save x number of tons of green house gasses. My house is nuclear powered so that is a complete crock. CFLs have there applications but they are not all they are cracked up to be. Anyway, not to long from now we will be using LED lighting. Right now it is expensive, but they really do save energy.

Not all of us in Ontario "love" McGuinty. Unfortunately no matter how hard I try there are still some things I need to buy that are made in China. McGuinty has banned incandescent bulbs in Ontario in 2010, I believe, so I guess we will all be buying "Made in China" curly bulbs. Either that or some major stocking up will have to happen...ciao

My entire apartment is decked out with CFL bulbs, they work great and give more light for less watts and will last a very long time. Yes there is Hg in them, just like there is Hg in the FL tube lights in our workplaces, malls, etc... Communities will respond by providing safe disposal depots for these bulbs as they become more prevalent. Additionally, the amount of Hg in the bulbs is very small, a fraction of the amount emitted by coal burning power-plants to produce the power that lights a regular lightbulb over its life time.

So I don't really understand the aversion to CFLs being displayed in this comment thread.

Overtaxation of Canadians leads to these programs where a bureaucrat will make consumer choices for us. Canadians probably would buy energy saving products on their own, but taxes come first!

What we require in Ontario is not more dim bulbs but a few new nuclear reactors to ensure an adequate supply of energy for our future needs.

rattfuc
Or less immigration,

Joe Molnar: "Does that have anything to do with China refusing to sign onto Kyoto?"

Does that have anything to do with this topic which is about where the CF bulbs are made? They could be made anywhere but people generally shop for the cheapest price and the cheapest place to make things right now is China. Unfortunate, but true.

jypsy: "I'm stalking up on candescent unbeknown to him"

Isn't stalkng illegal (unless hunting)? What the hell is a "candescent" anyway?

For porches in the Great White North?

“CFLs don't operate well in frigid conditions, limiting their use for exterior lighting in cold areas. According to a spokeswoman from Philips Lighting, most CFLs require a minimum starting temperature of minus 20 degrees Fahrenheit; below that, it's difficult for the bulb's reaction process to begin. Other problems in cold temps include reduced light output and a pinkish glow, rather than the desirable "soft white" (actually faintly yellow) color.”

They say that owners quite often resemble their pets but in this case it’s dim bulbs resembling their dim bulbs.

Yes there is Hg in them, just like there is Hg in the FL tube lights in our workplaces, malls, etc...

The difference being that in a standard fluorescent tube, I don't have to torque a weak, twisted piece of glass (that contains the Hg) to get the bulb in and out.

Oh god, Kate. Has it been a slow day for news? This is another one of those poorly assembled arguments where you fly out waving around some sort of weak, lacklustre piece of evidence only to tout it as the holy grail of dirt; a smoking gun for which nobody would have ever heard about if it weren't for the efforts of our armchair bloggers across the world. Hah. Are you familiar with the concept of quality vs. quantity?

You would be hard pressed to find proponents of a strong manufacturing sector who go so far as advocating that we revert back to the days of full on import substitution in every possible sector. Would you propose that Dalton spend hundreds of millions of dollars, perhaps billions, to entice a company to create a plant in Ontario? I think most manufacturing proponents in Canada are currently concerned with keeping the jobs we have.

Unless we want to become Luddites, realists understand that, given the population of Canada, this country is not going to produce everything.

You're drawing straws on this one and you can do better, Kate.

I live on the 15th floor of a building with a partial view of downtown Vancouver.
Sure we can worry and fret over what bulbs we each use,but it all seems pretty pointless when I can see countless hundreds of thousands of lights blazing at 2:00 AM every night,365 days/yr.Our different levels of government are some of the biggest power whores we have.

I find the fraud in this MMGW bullshit stands out not so much in the poor science as it does in the laughable,so-called solutions the greenies themselves put forth.
Lightbulbs and Prius'...sure...that will change the course of our planet's climate.

Dcardno writes:

"The difference being that in a standard fluorescent tube, I don't have to torque a weak, twisted piece of glass (that contains the Hg) to get the bulb in and out."

Oh wow, SDA's leader and faithful are really on fire today. Now we have someone asserting that inserting and removing CFL's is a safety hazard. I've been using these bulbs for the better part of a decade and not once have I had one break during removal or installation. Haha..give me a break and call it a day. One word for that argument: WEAK!! lol

McGuinty has banned incandescent bulbs in Ontario by 2010??? What's he gonna do, put together a cadre of lightbulb police with powers of entry to enforce it? Just how silly can it get?

“CFLs don't operate well in frigid conditions, limiting their use for exterior lighting in cold areas. According to a spokeswoman from Philips Lighting, most CFLs require a minimum starting temperature of minus 20 degrees Fahrenheit;

Too true, I was going to wire my garage with all flourescent bulbs but they are useless on days like today.

So in the winter you need incandescents that always work in Winnipeg at least.

Plus I went through the cfl phase and when you start replacing their bulbs quicker than the promised lifetime, even within 1 year it's a friggin waste.

Course maybe they would last longer if the big retailers weren't just buying from China.

Well Ray, I'll direct you back to the post in question. I didn't write it, don't argue for or against. Never let poor reading comprehension get in the way of a criticism, eh?

It may come as a surprise to you, but this isn't a news site. It's a blog, sometimes I just toss out things that catch my eye because I think they're worth taking a look at.

And I'm two for three on my CFL bulbs. First one blew within a couple of weeks, another is working well, the third is in a location where it's rarely turned on. Haven't bought any more. I'll be stocking up on incandescents, too. I already have tube flourescents in the areas best serviced by that type of light.

I see my friends to my north have the same quandary we have here in the USA! As a "Lions International" USA member when I was recently soliciting funds for the blind (appropriately in front of our local Wal*Mart), we were giving out US flags that were made in China ! Duooooooo ~~~

importing the mascots from asia too, these look distinctly pokemon.

http://www.ctv.ca/mar/photo.html?pname=http://images.ctv.ca/archives/CTVNews/img2/20071127/450_mascots_0711272.jpg&win_width=703.0&description=Sumi, Quatchi and Magi are the mascots for the Vancouver 2010 Olympics.&slug=vancouver_mascot_071127

CFL bulbs are quite simply the worst bulbs on earth if you are interested in architectural lighting.

Bottom line: if you want to light your home artistically, whether it's inside or out, CFLs are next to useless (good for lighting the shed perhaps)

Each time I go to the store I see more of these damned bulbs and fewer halogens, incandescents, etc. Just try buying a spot par20 halogen and see the price to get an idea of what I mean.

Soon I'll have to start getting my bulbs through the internet.

The CFL mercury nightmare

http://www.financialpost.com/story.html?id=aa7796aa-e4a5-4c06-be84-b62dee548fda

One note I will add, however - there's nothing quite so sure to promote investment in a manufacturing sector than the realization that you'll be paying tax to a government that's giving the product you make away for free.

*
my son brought one of these free light bulbs home from school yesterday.

it says, "warning: this box contains 125 lbs of coal, 50 dollars of electricity
savings, and one lightbulb."

warning: they are made in china.

*

A small town in B.C. recently had a power surge when high voltage wires came in touch with their 240 system. It caused all the CFLs in a motel to explode. I didn't hear anything about the motel being shut down because of mercury contamination but that maybe because the owners are not talking about it.

I own several CFL but won't buy any more.They should never be used with dimmer switches.

It's all nonsense that incandescents waste power. Every one of our homes in Canada needs to be heated for at least 9 months a year. Incandescents are useful heat sources. That energy is NOT wasted!

Everybody in this forum is wrong,

The light bulb generated miserly wholesale income in China, I’m guessing but maybe 20% of retail price. (Whereas domestically produced bulb might represent much more.)

The Chinese company (possibly Canuckistanian owned) ships said bulb to Soviet Canuckistan to a Canuckistanian distributor, possibly from Ontario.

Price gets marked up.

Canuckistanian merchant still makes all the money and then spends profits in Canada like usual.

Shrewd and newly profitable merchant has now accrued extra profit that would have otherwise been spent on some unproductive Canuckistanian labor at an American owned union plant in Oakville or something.

Said merchant has wisely diverted uncompetitive labor dollars, union dues, transfer payments to Newfoundland, remittances to the government in payroll deductions, and other onerous indirect payment to the Queen by way of taxes and magically transformed them into net profit (before taxes…Royal Tribute) to be mainlined into the Canuckistanian economy at the street level.

Absolutely brilliant and capitalistic. Very sound business practices.

Dalton McGuinty may indeed be a pinko clueless fag, but even broken clocks are right twice a day. He looks like a fiscal conservative with a sharp pencil on the bottom line to me!

BTW, who sold the Chinks the bulb making machines to begin with…Canuckistanians?

Funny thing though -- looking at the incandescent bulbs we all have in our cupboards are almost all made in Canada. The new bulbs, although carrying familiar brand names, appear to all be made in China. This picture seems somewhat strange to me. Are we now going to see the end of the light bulb industry in this country and is China going to provide us with all our material goods?

It is getting harder and harder to find "Made In Canada" on anything we purchase. China is one of -- if not the -- largest polluters in the world, and our government seems quite content to allow us to continue to purchase these bulbs from that country.

Windsor Star

Sean S: My entire apartment is decked out with CFL bulbs, they work great and give more light for less watts and will last a very long time.

More light? Than what? A 20-watt bulb, maybe, but nothing produced even comes close to a halogen torchiere. I had a torchiere in my living room providing all the light I needed. Now I have two cfl lamps that provide a sickly, yellow glow that's almost impossible to read by.

"it's all nonsense that incandescents waste power. Every one of our homes in Canada needs to be heated for at least 9 months a year. Incandescents are useful heat sources. That energy is NOT wasted!"

Jack has made a good point. Even in Southern Ontario there is no such thing as waste heat for six months of the year. Remember too that "waste" heat displaced by CF bulbs will only be made up by running the furnace that much longer. It's ironic that the electricity used for lighting comes in large part from both nuclear power and hydro - both non-polluting, non CO2 emitting forms of energy (referring to Ontario). The extra heating will be from either natural gas or oil.

I've been using CF bulbs for years and have been getting good service. In Toronto, outdoor bulbs last on average about three years at about 10-12 hours per day. I have noticed that the new, really cheap bulbs now available are poorer quality where I find it common for 1 or 2 from a six pack to die after perhaps six months.

Dim prospects that 'energy efficient' will pay off: CIBC
Globe and Mail Update
November 27, 2007 at 11:27 AM EST

Improvements in efficiency have done little to reduce actual energy consumption, as consumers take advantage of those gains to drive bigger cars farther, or heat larger homes, CIBC World Markets Inc. economist Jeff Rubin says in a new report.

In a study released today, Mr. Rubin described an “efficiency paradox” in which technology improvements allow for better energy efficiency, but those savings are lost to greater consumption....

www.reportonbusiness.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20071127.wrubin1127/BNStory/energy/home?cid=al_gam_mostview

"It's all nonsense that incandescents waste power. Every one of our homes in Canada needs to be heated for at least 9 months a year. Incandescents are useful heat sources. That energy is NOT wasted!"

yes let's all start heating our homes with light-bulbs!

CFL's - another bloody leftist/government/IPCC/Gore/Suzuki conspiracy theory to make money!!!

I have two of those little curly idiot things. I put them the two places where the light stays on all the time and they don't need to be bright. For a reading lamp or something they are friggin' useless.

I foresee a thriving cross border trade in incandescent light bulbs should the Big Brother set in Ottawa ban them. They'll be for sale in Indian reservations across the country too. Right next to the Sit 'n Bull Smoke Shop.

Maybe I'll make my fortune being a light bulb smuggler. Get a nice boat, cruise back and forth across Lake Ontario, what a great life!

do not use CFL bulbs in enclosed fixtures, be careful in potlights, do not use in shower fixtures, do not use in high vibration areas like garage door openers. no recommended in safety lights or any rough use applications.

I have never had success lighting one of these things anywhere close to -20F. and they take awhile to light up even at room temperature, I have 4 in a 5 light fixture and I always put an incandecent bulb in one so I get the effect of instantaneous light. I have incandecent floodlight bulbs that I know are 20 years old as I havent changed them sicne we moved in.

artistic lighting? the AGW types will have us all with CFL lights on a bare fixture with a pull chain if possible.

anyone heard what Al Gore cut his utilities to lately, he was to move to CFLs at the palace.

Gulf Canada square was heated with light bulbs for about a decade after in was built. it was not a successful experiment. I believe they still have the large water tank dampening the temperature fluctuation.

the bulbs were mostly flourescent.

Tory_watcher, who obviously prejudges any cerebral communication through a narrow national socialist template sez:

"Our consumerism is contributing significantly to creating the horrible messes in China and India"

Not MY consumerism Pillow Pantz...nor from any of my political or professional efforts.

Nice try, but I think the red condom you swallowed at the last Libby youth love in has caused terminal constipation and has now clouded your perception.

Went out for a celebration supper and tried a fancy new restaurant. All fixtures had those twisty bulbs, and I couldn't see. Menu was given, dark brown with black writing. Couldn't read it. Took menu to cash register and stood and read it and made my selection. Got funny looks, but just said, sorry, I can't see over there, or read this menu. I now carry a small flashlight in my purse.
I have changed all my light bulbs from 60W to 120W, just to show my opposition to all the gorecrap. And my utility bill has not gone up.

There is a rather long and somewhat technical article
on CFL strengths & weaknesses available here:

sound.westhost.com/articles/incandescent.htm

cal2, many Calgary office buildings designed in TO or Van, have to keep lights and fans on coz there isn't enough heating inside!

cal 2 - The Phantom -Mary T - My experience exactly.

The hanging light over the kitchen table contains six small type bulbs.
Two weeks ago my wife replaced them with CFL's.
Bad move.
The slow dim light emitted from complete darkness is annoying beyond telling.
Sadly even at full light output the six bulbs do not create comparable light to the former six small incandescents.

I may have to resort to my photo dark room with the pull chain overhead incandescent to do (see) the crossword.

Quite right, JM. Efficiency improvements have never resulted in reduced energy consumption. They have always resulted in increased production. Fuel efficiency in cars in the 1980s were taken,not by lowered fuel consumption but by making vehicles larger and driving more. Efficiency doesn't reduce energy consumption, it drives productivity, and it's not a paradox at all, except perhaps in the eyes of Greens who persist in misunderstanding basic economics.

Wonderful. Maybe some of the savings will be used to apply some of the "Debt Retirement Charge" from the old "Ontario Hydro" that I am charged every month. From what I understand not one dime has been spent from this charge to actually retire this debt.

We should finish paying off the old "wonderful" ideas before we embark on new ones. It will slow us down and possibly encourage good decision making.

It is the very logic of globalized neoliberal free market capitalism that has led to a decline in the Canadian manufacturing sector and resulted in our CFL bulbs (and much else) being manufactured overseas. Reduce costs, maximize profits, open up new markets, etc. etc.

It's rather strange to hear someone here defend vociferously the wonders of the market, and then in the very next breath, complain that everything is now made in China. The two are intimately connected.

I am wondering if any of these CFL's have been tested for lead paint.(everything else we seem to get from there has it). Also, if you can get incandescent bulbs from the the U.K. (that would be Britain for tory_watcher)they run on 220 and have a much thicker element in them but give off the same amount of light. I understand that they work perfectly fine over here and last for friggin' ever.

Tory_watcher sez:
" perhaps you might revisit one of the basic premises of capitalism, to which I certainly subscribe, which is that you build products that people want to buy or you will not be in business for long."

Ok the gloves come off....first you seem to have no concept of industrial productivity, operational economics or trade economics or the forces at play in the Chinese industrialization and trade agenda....I hear the mumblings of text book economics from you and not ground level experience.

Having dealt with Pacific rim and Chinese electronics industry for 28 years I think I have some insight on Chinese industrial production.

China has not embraced capitalism as practiced domestically in the west...the plan is not to fill demand but create demand...China has embraced a form of product "dumping" with an eventual monopoly agenda. They cannot compete ethically with better developed and quality producing western competitors right now so they sell purely on vastly undercutting western domestic production with ridiculous production advantages like abject labor costs, no environmental or product liability and low tax burdens....they price so cheaply industrial consumers ignore the quality because they can get 5 Chinese widgets for the cost of a domestic one lowering costs so they can under cut their competators. Once the domestic widget producers go insolvent and leave the market in the face of this dumping China widget co. will charge what they want as there is now a sole source for widgets ( or 9industrial chemicals or passive components or any other OEM focused commodity).

The idea is to sell so cheap their foreign competiton dies off within the decade and they monopolize on filling the ceded markets...many time the banck of China subsidizes the industry to keep it going while it sells at such low margins...waithing, of course for the day when their client has sole source pricing power.

As it is now, they have become successful in monopolizing the production of a number of common industrial chemicals and materials...and we let them because production of these chemicals or items here has become so costly due to taxes and capital investment in hazard technology that are imposed due to environmental hazards of production...The Chinese producers have no such worries.

Most of the time the products are inferior because the raw materials are generally bought up seconds or substandard stock that top tier competitors reject...but they don't care because they are not liable to any quality and product safety standards western producers are. China's low taxation and vacant labor/environmental/product safety standards could be argued to be a vast government subsidy unavailable to western producers.

So your toady-boy idea that our deindustrialization is by domestic industry's choice is as sparse on reality as most leftard economics....and the idea of western consumers making China an environmental mess is pure moonbat sophistry...they can refuse the business any time and they can decide to clean up their act at the slight expense of their profitability.

Under the current virtually open China import environment domestic small business is forced to buy the cheaper Chinese raw matrials and sub assemblies or generally goes tits up using domestic suppliers....corporate industry is more mobile and is FORCED to off shore contract production to compete with the cheap substandard junk government has allowed in here without protective tariffs or liable to domestic product liability standards.

....this is a result of domestic regulating, taxing and social program/labor liabilities making domestic products expensive...then they (government) open the gates for cheap foreign products...yeah that's right, in a nation that claims a Keynesian centrally regulated economic ethic, when major disruptions in the economy or productivity take place there is usually only one way to point the finger....and it isn't at those in the private sector trying to survive as a domestic producer in spite of being milked like cows by collectivist imbiciles in government who are detached from the concerns of private sector producers.

In the case of the Canadian electronics industry Liberal import policy killed it in a matter of 5 years

FTA saved us from industrial productivity collapse by opening US markets but nothing can protect domestic industry from the unfair competative advantages of Chinese substandard productivity "dumping".

Take a scan of the Canadian manufacturers site and learn something....before you trust that made in China defibrillator.

And when millions of these mercury bulbs end up in landfills our ground water will be contaminated with mercury. What will McSquinty do them? If these bulbs are not treated as toxic waste we will be in big trouble.
I too am stocking up on incandescent bulbs. Harper has mandated the mercury bulbs be the only thing used by 2012.

Nothing wrong with compact flourescent lighting George ...but a sylvania domestic made lamp will last years and give more light per watt rating and longer service life(8K hrs.) than the Chinese crap.

By the time the incandescent ban hits LED technology will have a mass produced lamp that gives the equivelent 100 watt incandescent light from 2.2 watt current draw....50,000 hrs service...Half the cost of a CF lamp...good old North American engineering will fill the need...China will of course ignore the patents and make their normal shoddy replicas.

WL Mackenzie Redux: They cannot compete ethically with better developed and quality producing western competitors right now so they sell purely on vastly undercutting western domestic production with ridiculous production advantages like abject labor costs, no environmental or product liability and low tax burdens....they price so cheaply industrial consumers ignore the quality because they can get 5 Chinese widgets for the cost of a domestic one lowering costs so they can under cut their competators.

All of the above may be true, but none of it is incompatible with the logic of free market capitalism.

China's low taxation and vacant labor/environmental/product safety standards could be argued to be a vast government subsidy unavailable to western producers.

But neoliberal economists would argue that such labour and environmental standards in the West (the lack of which you interestingly call 'subsidies' in China) constitute undesirable state influences that hinder private industries' ability to compete in the global marketplace? The entire push for deregulation within N. America is premised on the fact that such externally (i.e., government) imposed constraints on the market are harmful and should be abandoned. The key difference with China is that it simply never bothered imposing such constraints to begin with.

corporate industry is more mobile and is FORCED to off shore contract production to compete with the cheap substandard junk government has allowed in here without protective tariffs or liable to domestic product liability standards.

'Forced' is rather an overstatement. Nike, Gap, Sony, even CFL-making General Electric, etc. are all doing just fine from what I hear. It's not like they fought tooth-and-nail to try and keep their manufacturing sites in N. America, begging governments to enact the protective tariffs that would let them stay. On the contrary, these and other corporations were at the forefront of past lobbying efforts that paved the way for economic globalization.

Two points:

Conservatives are responsible for banning incandescent bulbs by 2012.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/living-green/lightbulbs.html

Conservatives are doing nothing to either slow down imports from China or help manufacturing in Canada. It wouldn't be a surprise to find out that Mo Strong also has friends in the Conservative Party, since they're economic policy is hardly different than the Liberals.

they're = their

Here' a good post on where electical savings can be had.www.confundrum.com-look in "Articles" under The Economy section for the post titled On Electrical Usage.Light bulbs of any kind do not seem to be a power drain.Dr. Mercury will explain far better than I.He does the math.

Iberia: Conservatives are responsible for banning incandescent bulbs by 2012.

True. And even Ontario's plan followed in the footsteps of Australia's (Conservative) Howard regime: 3w.cbc.ca/canada/story/2007/04/25/lunn-bulbs.html

"What we require in Ontario is not more dim bulbs but a few new nuclear reactors to ensure an adequate supply of energy for our future needs.

Posted by: rattfuc at November 27, 2007 11:06 AM"

Too true, too true, Mr. Rodentcopulat. Your fellow citizens who are trusting in McSquinty's plans for your energy future would be better advised to forget about light bulbs and stock up on candles and sweaters.

I received one of those lightbulbs a few days ago. The kid rang the doorbell, I opened the door with the dog barking, he gave me a lightbulb muttering something I didn't understand and left.

If it wasn't for Kate, I wouldn't have any idea why the kid was delivering lightbulbs which pretty much defeats the purpose of the entire project, doesn't it?

Despite all this offshore tale (I agree by the way) there is another aspect to this few recognize: Indoor light bulbs do not waste electricity.

Simply put all electricty consumed is converted to heat. During the heating season (you know the days of long nights) light bulbs simply supplement heating costs. That is, the baseboard heaters will come on less when light bulbs are burning. So I ask, why stumble areound in the dark to save electricity?

"What we require in Ontario is not more dim bulbs but a few new nuclear reactors to ensure an adequate supply of energy for our future needs.

The dim bulbs at AECL and OPG to solve the problem of dim bulbs? Be careful what you wish for.

for all the conservationists. there will be trillions not millions of these bulbs thrown out annually. that tiny amount of mercury will become a massive amout of mercury. there will be no safe disposal of these planet saving bulbs. man there are alot of dim bulbs supporting thier use.

ratfuc,

I know that there are nuclear environmental assessments going on right now in Durham and Clarington regions (east of Toronto) because they are being advertised on the radio. I also think they are setting up public debates. So I think that McGuinty may be announcing 2 new nuclear reactors either at Darlington or at Pickering (or maybe both) in his throne speech this Thursday.

A partisan harpy misdirects:
"Conservatives are responsible for banning incandescent bulbs by 2012."

A Liberal government just spent Canadian tax money buying CF bulbs for our competitiors in china...so there is enough stupidity to go around.

I also note Harper has been trying to close the import laws to prevent Chinese dumping but he gets hissed at from across the house by the Powercorp Liberals who's patron has big investments in polluting China.

So keep searching for some political party moral enough to defend...they all go rotten...we just have to have the sense to see when and get rid of them...like we did with the corporate croneyism Libranos

selMar: "All of the above may be true, but none of it is incompatible with the logic of free market capitalism."

>> I qualified my assessment with "ethical capitalism" as practiced in civilized nations and civil societies....in that regard, we do not have state run/owned industies conspire with state owned banks to undercut prices to almost insolvency just to destroy global competition then reap the ill-gotten fruit of sole sorce monopoly...we have anti trust and anti-monopoly laws for a reason...because the natural source of aggressive unethical capitalism is monopoly...this is the same natural course of secular statism...monopoly on power...so we have constitutions limiting power...similarly we make anti trust laws limiting combines and the concentration of wealth and productivity in a few hands....the Chinese model has no such ethics....so western capitalism is at a disadvantage.

"The entire push for deregulation within N. America is premised on the fact that such externally (i.e., government) imposed constraints on the market are harmful and should be abandoned. The key difference with China is that it simply never bothered imposing such constraints to begin with."

.. I think I said that...and yes the lack of regulation in the Chinese model amounts to a competative advantage. Now I have large libertarian leanings but I have never advocated total deregulation...industry must meet community living/health standards and be a responsible corporate citizen...no one advocates going back to industrial revolution robber baron oligarchy with hand to mouth existance for workers...or the costly polluting that was created.

Besides technical industry needs skilled labor and skilled labor is now mobile to the best work environment.

I say we just require the same standards we impose on domestic producers on import producers...same safety quality and product liability standards...if the products don't have the approvals of international product quality/safety/reliability standards bodies like UL/CSA/ISO/NSF/IEEE etc...ban the import or tariff it into to domestic price ranges.

The Chinese and India have hooked themselves into a real pending economic crisis... their totally unregulated unethical industrial capitalization is creating vast toxin control and pollution problems that is killing their people...but they don't care because their leadership are immoral depopulationists who feel the more who die off sooner the better for the rest....however the ones who are first bto go are in the industial heartland cities and are skilled labor so this will impact productivity....then the class A toxins they are rampantly spewing into their oceans and rivers will eventually contaminate ground water supply...and their smog will impact other nations who will embargo until they get a handle on their polluting.

In the long optics, unethical capitalism and irresponsible industrialization will implode on itself because it is not sustainable

In light of the fact that 98% of transplanted organs come from these polluted anti-popultionist environments, you may think twice about that bargaiun basement Chinese Kidney...no idea what it's filled with ;-)

WL Mac, re. impending Chinese crisis, I smell the same thing. You can't give stuff away forever, particularly when you are trying to build an industrial infrastructure from nothing.

Look what we have right now. The Canadian dollar at par with the USA for the first time in 30 years, based on metals, oil and a lot of currency speculation.

The Euro at all time highs based on pure currency manipulation and speculation from China and the Arabs.

The American dollar at an all time low to the Euro and the Yen. Cause, stupid lending practices from the big banks and stupid STUPID management of the Big Three car companies. (Could GM be run by bigger morons? I doubt it.)

What's going to happen from that? First, Europe is about to join Japan in a nice recession. Just in case anybody is wondering why the Frogs elected Sarkozy, its because their economy is taking a dump.

Second, I'm pretty sure (but not 100% yet) that the US economy is going to have a recession pretty soon.

With the whole of China's market in recession and orders cut dramatically, anybody think China's economy is going to be growing at 10%? Its going to crash hard and burn. India won't, because they aren't a 100% crooked central planned Commie-ocracy with their eye on world domination.

Where's Canada in all this? Screwed, unless we get a major shakeup in taxes and government interference. When I say major, I mean like taxes cut in half or more with no capital gains tax, just for starters. Because why? Because everything we buy is made in China, and everything we sell is going to be CHEAP on the open market. We either recoup all the manufacturing we sent to China, Mexico and North Carolina, or we've got nuttin'.

Fun eh?

OWG, quite right, there are 5 milligrams of mercury in CFs. That's a kilogram of mercury for 2 million bulbs. That's a landfill that just became a contaminated site.

CCON, there will be no new reactors at Pickering. There's no room on the site. The available sites in Ontario are at Darlington and Bruce. Bruce Power has already filed its application (last February), and its environmental assessment process has begun. The one for Darlington has yet to start.