Stelmach will rebalanced that chart soon enough.

You're full of shit. We've had the 3rd highest growth in Canada for the last year. Where do you idiots get these stats from? You make them up.

Statistics Canada:
www.statcan.ca/Daily/English/071108/d071108a.htm

Kate. You're a social change denier.

ok4u: From the date, 2006.

doze dirty albertains , ow dare day get a head off all de udder canadiens, I ate dem for dare izzy money. I ate dem so much . \\Borat Dion

the Alberta part is no surprise, Saskatchewan will follow as soon as they open up their oilfields.

If only this information was out a couple of weeks ago...

Ok4ua is such a typical response of a socialist. I was talking with a NDP today and I was trying to explain Saskatchewan's unfunded pension obligations and how Ontario funded their civil servant pensions. I went further and told the guy that the Ontario Teachers alone have over $70 billion in their pension fund and how the money is invested in various stocks and bonds and provides a good return on for the teachers. The NDPer responded by saying "on paper". I asked him to clarify and he said "have you seen that money?" I laughed and said "well no" he said "then how do you know that it exsists?" What an idiot, but that is typical of the socialists response, they deny hard facts and insist on living in their world.

BTW, does anyone want to bet on whether or not the MSM picks up on these numbers?

trent: So, in other words ... the union is stealing from its members? Hey, that's a new one...

One bar has gone to the left?

I had to laugh but I*m sorry; didn*t mean to.

With such a small population and all those natural resources it would require professional National Dipstick personnel to trend leftward like that.

It will be all upwards from now on as long as major earning assets are not sold to China for quick cash.= TG

kate you had a graph that showed the drilling rigs in Alberta that STOPPED at the Sask/Alta border, you should re-post it.

So Borat Dion reappears.

trent... they are socialists. You could show them the money and they would claim it does not exist.

Sock Puppet:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sock_puppet

The NDP are mourning in Saskatchewan, for everyone else it is morning in Saskatchewan.

Gross Domestic Product Per Capita, By Country.

Canada; 19th

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/eco_gdp_percap-economy-gdp-nominal-per-capita

It's easy to explain - dippers want everything to trend to the LEFT, including (it would seem) that chart.

see socialism works. ndp thinks all the figures should be in the negative that way we ae all equal. ha ha.

"I reject your reality and substitute my own." - ok4u

Just think how high those numbers would be if our leadership was honest. Investigate Mulroney, Chretien and Martin. NOW.

PM Harper. Investigating Chretien and Martin is a must. Now. As a taxpayer who lived through all 3 regimes, I'm willing to bet Mulroney was a piker compared to Chretien and Martin. I would like EVERY taxpayer dollar that went to CSL enumerated. I want to know about golf courses and hotels and roads to the cottage. I, along with many, many other Canadians believe the Liberals have enriched themselves at public expense for a decade or more. Why do YOU not hear us? Investigate them NOW.

Gord, an audit of that magnitude might make the Gomery Inquiry look like a Sunday drive.

Wow! Minus 4 points of growth for Saskabush.

..but I thought government WAS an industry.

..guess it's just not a value-added industry which adds to economic growth.

..I'm crushed...everything the dewy-eyed Dippers told me about economics and gummint was wrong...I'm crushed...crushed I tell ya. ;-)

One of the things I love about SDA is the howling denials and reactionary tantrums of infantile dippers and sundry other leftard zealotry like ok4u...watching them howl in feigned sanctimonious indignation just brightens my day. :)

Keep sticking the fork in 'em Kate...with every deflated dipper, life gets just that much brighter. ;-)

As much as I dislike the Liberals, I doubt it would be wise for the government to expend its energy investigating its predecessor unless something specific surfaces. Paul Martin's problem as PM wasn't corruption, so much as incompetently flailing from one top priority to the next, hurling money hither and thither as he did so. Besides, the portion of the country that still votes Liberal is already well aware of the corruption within the party. They're okay with it. It's unlikely further investigations will change their mind. In the meantime, it would make the current government look like they'd run out of ideas and were resorting to petty recriminations. That's not something that would inspire people to vote for them next time around.

"Paul Martin's problem as PM wasn't corruption"

oh yes it was...there was the Herle scandal, the ad scam scandal the Earnscliffe no bid contracting scandal, Martin's hand in the blood scandal.....his conflict of interest in CSL...Man this guy was waste deep in corruption...and THAT burns people like me...a dirty poli is as contemptable as a dirty cop because both betray trust and authority.

Now , I may agree with you that corruption was not important to the media in the subsiquent election but hey...the MSM are part of the corruption in public life in Canada anyway.

Looks like Manitoba's getting pretty good government.

It was no mistake the election was called when it was. StatsCan releases these numbers slowly throughout the year. It just didn't work out for the NDP.

They were hoping to get re-elected before these numbers hit because they already knew what they would be, despite spewing spittle to the contrary.

I bet they didn't think they would get thrown out on the strong economy they made up.

Wow, ok4ua must have just burst into tears after its post, then run crying from the room to hug mommy. Perhaps it could join Dion's chorus and moan "Its not fair!" Oh these bad, bad conservatives.

ok4u;

The week has been a little rough for you eh?

It's really not as bad as it seems. Finding work in the private sector is not that daunting of a task these days and it certainly has perks that are much more difficult to find within the public sector. Such perks include; self confidence, knowing that you are now a productive member of society, an enhaced sense of selfworth etc...

The light of day is really not as bad as you might think.

We better get Wall to bring in some grief councellors for people like ok4u. The tracic consequenses of this loss will be felt by these poor souls for years to come. Oh the pain....

"Looks like Manitoba's getting pretty good government." (Lloyd Fister, 10:02AM)

And Janice MacKinnon was the Minister of Finance in an N.D.P. government... go figure, eh? She was simply too intelligent, however, to stick around for the extended period of socialist fun 'n games.

Manitoba, Manitoba, hmmmm... didn't Manitoba privatize their government-run telephone system about 11 years ago?

A wise man {Hugh Arscot} once said that the most dangerous economic condition was a high birthrate coupled with low productivity.
CUPE and other unions contiue to fight performance bonuses and wage increments based on perfomance.
If the rancher bred his cows with bulls on a senority only basis he would soon have a sorry looking herd.

The difference between a liberal and a Conservative is basically this, a Conservative looks ahead to things to be done, recognizes the past and learns from it, but doesn't dwell on it. A Conservative can’t be bothered, for the most part, to take the time to continually dredge up the past and rehash old injustices, there's too much to be done in the present and future.
Liberals on the other hand are still doing penance on all the past injustices in the world. From the blacks hundreds of years ago to Mulroney today. Be seen and be heard to do right, but do nothing, and do it loudly. They really are a bunch of very small-minded vindictive people with very few redeeming qualities of any importance in today’s world. That is of course unless you consider cowering, squealing, whining and whimpering valued qualities.
Conservatives are the self motivated doers in this world, liberals the artists, and art is basically just making something out of nothing for yourself, the ME people.

correcting for currency,at the going rate when these stats were done , the winter wonderland has ontario ranking about the same as utah or about 40th in GDP/cap. most of the other provinces are closer to arkansas and mississippi, albeit with better teeth.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_GDP_per_capita_(nominal)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Canadian_provinces_and_territories_by_gross_domestic_product

So if it's Sask's "socialist" policies and the NDP that are to blame, then why does Manitoba do relatively well. Your thesis holds no water.

Had a conversation with a colleague on Friday, me:
- The GST is now 5%
- Yeah, when are they going to lower PST?
- When the sheep in Ontario will stop electing the liberals!

This is the best election program CPC can ever come up with - the one that hits people on the wallet. The ever greedy Ontario sucking us dry for money is not even close to the average growth of GDP!

Those Sask Party voting, freeloading farmers, dragging us down again.

Those Sask Party voting, freeloading farmers, dragging us down again.

How can that be when, according to leftist accounting, agriculture only accounts for 6.8% of Sask's GDP?

"The ever greedy Ontario sucking us dry for money is not even close to the average growth of GDP!"

We're lagging behind, yet still forced to shell out the second largest amount in equalization. Nobody here is sucking any money from you, assface.

So if it's Sask's "socialist" policies and the NDP that are to blame, then why does Manitoba do relatively well. Your thesis holds no water.

Posted by: steve at November 10, 2007 12:24 PM

Without a doubt,Manitoba would be far better off if it weren't saddled with an NDP government. Having said that, Gary Doer's version of the NDP is alot less radical than typical NDP brands such as the Taliban Jackals nationally & Lorne-Tommy Channelers of Saskatchewan.

"So if it's Sask's "socialist" policies and the NDP that are to blame, then why does Manitoba do relatively well. Your thesis holds no water."

Steve, what thesis are you referring to? I don't recall any thesis attached to this thread, do you? All that is involved here is a statement of fact provided by Stats Canada, nothing more. The conclusions that people derive from this statement of fact are just their personal opinions, nothing more, and certainly not a thesis.
The fact that the Conservative governed provinces have a higher rate of GDP growth only supports the Calvert governments decision to borrow the last two budgets from the "right wing" Saskatchewan Party's platform. You could look at this as a very positive confirmation of the Sask. NDP's decision to abandon the radical left wing capital tax and high corporate tax policy in favor of the more productive "right wing" policies. It could even be argued that with all the tax cuts (like the PST being reduced to 5% from 7%) the NDP implemented that the Saskatchewan economy would experience the same GDP growth as the "right wing" provinces had the Calvert NDP been re-elected. ;-)

In 2003, Sask GDP was 4.5%; in 2004 it was 3.5%; and in 2005 it was over 3%.

3w.statcan.ca/english/freepub/11-002-XIE/2005/05/12305/12305_02.htm

3w.td.com/economics/special/sl0406_pea.pdf

In those years it was one of the top performing provinces in Canada. But not according to right wingers, who follow the maxim that a lie repeated enough times eventually becomes the truth. Goebbels would be so proud.

Iberia - You mean lies like 'Sask Party will sell the Crowns" or "14 consecutive balanced budgets" or "Sask Party will privatize medicare" or " Sask Party doesn't support a seniors' drug plan"? You're absolutely right - repeat a lie often enough and some will begin to believe its true.

So, here you are calling Stats Can a liar. Do you believe the stats for the other provinces? They must be lies too. Or is Stats Can just lying about Saskatchewan? Must be quite a conspiracy going on here!

Even a huge percentage increase means very little in real dollar terms when you are on the bottom. A 100% increase on nothing is still a nothing return.

The reason Manitoba does better is because of previous forward thinking premiers who did things like privatize Manitoba Telephone.
Shares were sold to residents for $13.00 Now over $45. MTS pays taxes of up to $275 million a year plus dividends to shareholders and now has %20 more employees. Sasktel doesn't pay taxes!
If Cameco and PCS had not been privatized and humming along our GDP would be miuch worse.
Talking lies what about the 16 billion dollar debt that Grant Devine was suuposed to have left, Turns out it was 3.6 billion {bad enough} but now sits at over 11 billion. What about the outright lie that all the gas tax has been spent on roads?

It would have been good to have this more widely publicised last week in Sask, prior to this week's election.

...not that I have any real complaint regarding the outcome.

How can that be when, according to leftist accounting, agriculture only accounts for 6.8% of Sask's GDP?

It ain't the size of your industry, hoss, it's the size your subsidies that are dragging us down. Besides, if ag is 6.8% of the GDP, how is it, according to apologists for conservative hypocrisy, the biggest employer in Sask?

Scott, since the rest of your figures and assertions are bogus, I'm assuming your MTS figures are as well. If PCS had not been given away, or privatized as you like to call it, PCS would still be humming along and Sask's fiscal situation would have been, and would be today, much brighter. As it was, Chuck Childers got the gold and Sask taxpayers got the shaft. Such is the conservative way.

If Sask is in such economic decline, what is the basis of Brad Wall's projected growth in spending? Would that not be irresponsibility of Devinesque proportions?

More StatsCan data:

Annual % change in Sask GDP (1997 dollars)

- 1996: +2%
- 1997: +5.5%
- 1998: +3%
- 1999: +1%
- 2000: +3.2%
- 2001: -2% ("the first decline since 1992, as drought devastated crops"; statcan.ca/Daily/English/020422/d020422a.htm)

- 2002: -1.5% ("This second straight annual decline for Saskatchewan was due largely to drought conditions that hit the province's agricultural sector"; statcan.ca/Daily/English/031106/d031106a.htm)

- 2003: +4.5% (statcan.ca/Daily/English/041109/d041109a.htm)

- 2004: +3.5% (statcan.ca/Daily/English/050427/d050427a.htm)

- 2005: +3.1% (statcan.ca/Daily/English/061108/d061108a.htm)

- 2006: -0.4% ("Saskatchewan was further affected by a smaller crop")

Given that all "declining growth" years over the past decade have been attributed in large part to environmental rather than political factors, it seems like the "socialist" NDP managed the Saskatchewan economy pretty well.

But you'll ignore or somehow spin this data, I'm sure.

I'm Dutch. I can tell you from experience that socialism, truly and utterly, sucks. Bigtime. No 'buts.' No 'you fool with the stats.' It sucks. End of story.

Manny, I guess in your view the 5 years of Bob Rae and the NDP in Ontario were really boom years.

steve asks: So if it's Sask's "socialist" policies and the NDP that are to blame, then why does Manitoba do relatively well.

Mark R replies: Without a doubt,Manitoba would be far better off if it weren't saddled with an NDP government.

trent replies: The fact that the Conservative governed provinces have a higher rate of GDP growth only supports the Calvert governments decision to borrow the last two budgets from the "right wing" Saskatchewan Party's platform.

steve, the answer to your question apparently is this: If the economy declines, it's because of "socialism." If the economy grows, it's in spite of "socialism."

If, in a year's time, the growth rate is up--likely since the SK economy is on the upswing--it'll be because of conservative policies. If it's again down, you'll never read about it here.

This is typical SDA fodder. Recent periods of growth, from 1993-2000 and 2003-2005, all under the NDP's watch, are disregarded. The most recent year (a decline year) is posted in dramatic "a-ha!" fashion, accompanied only with one of Kate's trademark clever but otherwise vacuous one-liners. Her fans use the opportunity to do what they love best -- trash the NDP and everyone else they don't like.

The 11 years of growth cited above averages a tepid 2% per year. I would not be very proud of that rather dismal record.

Woodporter: The 11 years of growth cited above averages a tepid 2% per year. I would not be very proud of that rather dismal record.

Ah, lovely. So now the rule of thumb is: If the economy declines, it's because of "socialism." If the economy grows, it's in spite of "socialism." If the economy grows, but not as fast as one would like, it's because of "socialism."

China played hardball with PCS last year so the mines took eight week shutdowns to prove to the Chinese that they would not lower prices. Then a mine in Russia flooded out in January and the Chinese were scrambling. All's well that ends well. If PCS were still an NDP creation, they would have stayed open for those eight weeks, conceeded on prices and then be screaming to the Sask govt to underwrite them, woe is us. That's your GDP move in a nutshell. Good on ya PCS.

In those years it was one of the top performing provinces in Canada.

One of the facts giving GDP growth in percentages of the total hides is...well...the total. Adding 3% to a small total, such as Sask. has, isn't very much.

2007 Sask was only behind Alberta and BC. Where in the hell did you get your stats from? You make them up?

2007 Sask was only behind Alberta and BC. Where in the hell did you get your stats from? You make them up?

Posted by: ok4ua at November 10, 2007 3:46 PM

You come here to SDA to argue, that's fine, I happen to enjoy your presence on this blog as do others, but please, please, do not continue to ignore hard facts when they are presented to you! There is a link provide that takes you straight to the Statistics Canada website where these stats come from, so quit asking if the numbers are made up, THEY ARE NOT!! Why don't you just go through the data, the way Manny and A have done, and find legitimate numbers to support your views, ok?

That was released by the bankers of Canada when they gave the prov a higher rating. You make this up as you go. You don't have to lie to make the NDP look bad. At least tell 1/2 truths.

Your Fraser Inst. Says the same. 3rd behind Alberta and BC. Have you looked around SAsk or do you even live here. You're full of crap. You stick with your lies they will come back to haunt you. I can't believe people listen to you guys. I have friends in buisness. They say they've had the best year ever. Who made up this stat. Your Tory buddies. I've been all over the prov that's how I know you're right wing BSers.

ok4ua,
I AM in business! I happen to deal with and associate with some of the largest private businesses in the province and I can asure you NONE of them like the NDP!

Are you going to use this Stat as an excuse why the Sask Party won't be able to keep it's promises? You little weazles are so full of yourselves you start to believe your own stories.

A used car salesman? Vacuum Cleaner Salesman? Consultant? Bser and dreamer?

The Conference board of Canada recently stated our economy in Sask is way up there in growth. No one in their right mind would believe this. Why didn't NewsTalk CJME release all this doom and gloom? Why? because it's a lie.

I'll help you out ok4ua.

Actual GDP Sask 2005 - 38,598 2006 - 38,433 (in Millions)
Actual Pop Sask 2005 - 990,000 2006 - 985,400

GDP Decrease .429%
Pop Decrease .457%

So Saskatchewan, under the NDP, performed better in GDP per capita from 2005 to 2006.

You young punks are full of crap. We've have 14 credit rating upgrades. You don't fool us old farts. I'm talking about 2006 to 2007. You are soooooo stupid.

I am not surprised at the figures. back in the 80s and 90s as soon as you get a university degree no one will hire you. you are "overqualified". i wish i could have left sooner.

Sorry marshall, PCS doesn't sell potash to China, Cantopex does. You know, Cantopex, sort of CWB for potash.

Whoops, Canpotex

Ok4u is another example of why the left's ideology could not exist if it was actually enlightened by the science of economics or statistics. Its foundation is purely emotional and extremely fragile.
A person like Ok4u has to avert his eyes and plug his ears otherwise he is in danger of exposing his ignorance to himself.
To admit the breadth of his ignorance is too much to bear hence the ugly defensiveness and inability to use logic and reason.
With the Sask Party's win I think a frontal lobotomy might actually help Ok4u and a few others restore at least a semblance of rational thought.

Its too bad no one in Saskatchewan has the balls and vision to privatize most of the 132 bloodsucking crown corporations and let the private sector run business to pay the taxes and create the jobs to look after the economy.
The crowns are like the sacred cows in India,business keeps tripping over them and they are a hinderance to the flow of the economy

PCS does sell potash to china directly and through Canpotex the CWB of potash

Take little men and make them think they're big.

"our economy in Sask is way up there in growth"
"You young punks are full of crap."
"You don't fool us old farts."
"You are soooooo stupid."

Who can argue with wisdom such as this?

I have discovered why ok4ua doesn't understand where these facts come from:
A stupid man's report of what a clever man says can never be accurate, because he unconsciously translates what he hears into something he can understand.
Bertrand Russell
British author, mathematician, & philosopher (1872 - 1970)

ok4u:"You young punks are full of crap"

AAAAAhhhhhh an proto commie...one of Tommy's legion of the undead...quick get some garlic and holey water and some silver buckshot :-D

Nawww better yet let him stroke-out when he sees anyone but a dipper run the province's economy better

WL Mackenzie Redux:

I will share your glee in watching the socialists go apoplectic when the Sask economy does even better under the "new management". ;)

Actually, ok4ua, during the approximately 10 years that the NDP were in power in BC, until they were defeated in 2001, they had a record of many accomplishments. Perhaps their finest was to reduce BC to a have-not province, qualifying for equalization payments for the first time in the history of the province. You really have to try hard to reduce a previously-booming economy to that state.

Of course, their record of other failures and disasters is too numerous to list here, but that one was a corker...

"So if it's Sask's "socialist" policies and the NDP that are to blame, then why does Manitoba do relatively well. Your thesis holds no water."

The Graph is nit really all that telling of realities...ferinstance many of the perenially depressed provinces show average growth, but remember it's expressed as a percent of growth of GDP.. 3% growth between Ont and NB fer instance..they chart the same on the graph but the reall teller is the actual GDP...Ontario has expanded a 20billion GDP by 3% while NS has expanded a 8 billion GDP by 3%..this just shows groth not potential on available resources.

Sask should have a GDP closer to Alberta's because the resource exploitable potential is almost equal but they have a much smaller GDP even though growth % looks good most years GDP potential and utilization sucks.

I was looking at the cheap property in SW Saskatchewan, and though you could get some real bargains, the property taxes are over 3 times as high rural BC. Example $169,000 house Princeton BC taxes $621, Swift Current Sask. $169,000 house $2173.
Does Sask use all those holes in the roads to bury the extra money?
Now that Sask. has done away with their parasite gov. Sask. is now looking to be a good place to invest.

Look in the hood that's all you can afford. You are sooo full of BS.

Leftists and global warming fanatics go together hand in hand having total faith and belief in their man is God religion, so much so that when the truth and facts are staring them in the face they say "thats is a lie because that is not what I believe, so it can not be true"

Scott, the potash sale to China last year was a Canpotex sale.

Redux, yes Sask's GDP per capita should be as high as Alberta, but, as I said in my first post, we have too many conservative-votin', freeloading farmers per capita dragging us down.

manny, odds are you are a civil servant or a union worker who is adept at bloodsucking like ok4u. Making farmers scape goats for a failed ideology is typical of lefty loser mentality. I have worked with a company that has hired thousands of people over the years and the best, least entitled workers have been farm boys and girls.
Most of the problem employees we had were those who had been ruined by working for government at civil servant positions and had learned there was no relationship between productivity and their compensation.
Reality says that you and Ok4u are so full of sh*t the brown line shows up on you forehead.

Manny - I've done a search on this thread, and I see no comment from you praising Brad Wall for withdrawing support for the suit launched by Friends of the Wheat Board.

Really, I expected better of you.

Really, Claude, you worked with a company that hired THOUSANDS and worked in a capacity in which you could make an objective determination as to the merits of many of these employees based on their previous experience? What kind of business was it? How was it that this company hired so many former civil servants that you could make this determination? Thousands you say?

Kate, I could not care less.

After nearly 40 years of hiring people we learned to avoided people like you like the plague because their work ethic was often poor relative to the farm boys and girls. This doesn't did not mean that all former government employees were poor and all farm boys were great. The fact is the farm environment was far more likely to produce productive people than a government position because they had to work their rear end off to get ahead in a tough environment. While government tends to produce entitled unproductive and bitter bags like you.

Its pretty apparent that OK4Ua has finally lost it. I've been watching (reading) him for the last few weeks put forth his weak arguments but now that he knows all has been lost(for the NDP, certainly NOT the province)he has resorted to gutteral comments and name calling. When your argument fails then resort to ad hominen attacks.

I've often heard of this happening,but its quite an eye-opener(and amusing in this case) to actually witness it firsthand.

Go, OK4Ua, go. (and take the NDP with you).

...we have too many conservative-votin', freeloading farmers per capita dragging us down.

I guess they think if socialists are dumb enough to give them handouts they'll take it. They mostly think of it as a rebate on excessive taxation. Like the education tax on farmland used to educate you and your kids. It usually is equal to, or greater than, the taxes collected to operate the whole municipality.

I could not care less in that it is a matter of complete irrelevance to me. It is up to farmers to decide how to market their grain and that decision should be based on a clear, unambiguous question, and any implementation of that decision should be according to the law. I just don't want to be forced to subsidize the enterprise.

During the recent election in Saskatchewan I was wondering why the Sask Party didn't do more to refute the outright lies the NDP were telling. I came to realize that is is truly pointless to argue with a die-hard socialist, because no matter how much information and proof you give them to contradict their opinions, they will never listen to the truth.

The repeated attempts by Manny, ok4u and others to rationalize T.C. Douglas' thesis is a great example of their backwards logic.

I am very grateful that the socialists are a marginalize minority in Canada.

Oh but you do subsidize the CWB. There's that little matter of several billion the Russians didn't pay. That came out of the federal gov't.

"They mostly think of it as a rebate on excessive taxation. Like the education tax on farmland used to educate you and your kids. It usually is equal to, or greater than, the taxes collected to operate the whole municipality."

But the education portion of property tax on farmland is a lot less that the excessive taxation that subsidizes that farm. Besides, Wall is going to transfer that tax burden on to income tax earners. Then what are you going to use to rationalize your place at the trough, hoss? I'm sure you'll think of something.

By enterprise hoss, I meant the enterprise of agriculture. That enterprise should not be subsidized at all, not through coercive taxation, nor through propping up the Wheat Board.

Manny -

Dad's got 2 1/2 sections of land that he'd love to sell if you want to kick your feet back and rake in all the "subsidies" that the farmers get.

Of course, when the "subsidies" paid to those who produce your food amounts to 2 1/2% or less, then that's hardly "breaking the bank", isn't it.

Farmers don't want subsidies, they want a decent price for their crop. Remember that the next time you are buying your cereals or pasta or beef at the grocery store.

I have to side with others on this thread as to the nature of Leftists when their arguments hold no water. Their (Leftists) number of ad hominem attacks increases as their ability to debate fact decreases - an interesting inverse relationship. It becomes even more interesting when you consider that these are supposedly the people who defend individual rights and freedoms, and are apparently loathe seeing people marginalized.

Manny:
I'm a farmer, tell me, how much an acre do I get in Subsidies? Give me an actual dollar figure. Like Andrew, there is some pretty good land for sale around here, I'm thinking you should get in on the free money. After all its so easy, sit on your a**, wait for the Subsidie to roll in. Do you even run your own business? Have employees, do you even pay taxes? Would you know how to fix a combine at midnite with a flashlite?Change oil in a tractor engine? Know how to set up lines of credit with fertilizer and other line companies, usually in the hundreds of thousands of dollars? Just curious. Give er a try, you may like it.
Mert.

@Mert:

I'm flying by vague memory here, but I believe that what you sketched out in your dare is the case in the United States: the bulk of the subsidies feed agribusiness. From what I recall, there's next to no "agri-subsidy-business" in Canada.

I laugh. This laugh that I laugh is a hearty laugh. It goes;
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
and so on
for quite a long time
then my sides hurt.
My sides hurt because you simply will not learn
And in this not learning you will continuously error and flail about.
And that's terribly, horribly, deplorably funny.
To see over and over and over and ...

Socialist Governments ingratiated with Union politics are suckers for punishment in the long run. Did Mac Millar walk away from Meadow Lake empty handed? Don Getty, supposedly a conservative with Calgary connections (for hand outs like Jim Dinning ... TG for Stelmach) almost took Alberta down that road, but then the St Louis (lounge) patron (not so saintly) saved us from that fate (aka King Ralph). Anyway, the ND's in Saskabush had some good advise cultivating an O&G industry that they've been shunning for 30 years only for the Saskatchewan Party (aka PC's?) to take credit for by the end of their term. Politics is such a wonderful thing.

manny aka maryjane PCS is now bigger than General Motors. I wonder how big it would have been as a crown corp.
It by the way is again giving performance bonuses to its non union staff,
It wants to give hourly union staff bonuses but the union is fighting to control bonuses through senority not performance and is upset that the company is maybe bribing union members before contract talks next year!

"the ND's in Saskabush had some good advise cultivating an O&G industry that they've been shunning for 30 years only for the Saskatchewan Party (aka PC's?) to take credit for by the end of their term. Politics is such a wonderful thing."

Len, where do you get this from? The largest parts of the Devine debt were the investments in the refitting and updating of the Regina Co-op upgrader in the 1980's, the building of the Lloydminster Upgrader in the 1990's and the hundred's of millions he spent building hospitals and nursing homes. So how can you say the the NDPer's are responsible for the O&G?
Here is a link to the debt: http://www.taxpayer.com/pdf/Provincial_Debt_by_Province_2007.pdf
I wanted to put that in before the NDPer's started to spin the numbers.

How is it that the people that vote socialists don’t get it?
You have and have had something like laboratory examples in real life.
You have the wealth creation of capitalism and general populace getting economic advantage.
You have socialism almost diametrically opposite way making everybody equally poor. Of course except those that are running it.
Take the example of former East and West Germany, North and South Korea, Cuba and its Central American neighbors.
Even as poor as the Cuban neighbors are, they are still better off than Cubans, the neighbors can improve their lives, to be sure, it is not easy, nonetheless they do have the opportunity, on the other hand the Cubans are stuck in their misery. It is only the communist gentry that are well off.
So what is it that seduces ordinary people to be suckers for punishment?

Scott, what a vivid imagination you have. I'm sure there's medication for your sort of delusional affliction. Perhaps nurse penny might be of assistance to you.

Farmer's don't want subsidies, Andrew? Listen to APAS, read the Western Producer, read what ol hoss has to say. Agriculture is a culture of dependence with a mentality of entitlement.

Mert, I don't know what you get per acre, but I do that the cost to the Sask taxpayer is beyond excessive. If farming doesn't pay, do something else. I'm sure bour3 would like a decent price for his poetry, but we all know that ain't gonna happen. I mean just because farming isn't working for you, where do you get the idea that you have the right to avail yourself of other peoples hard earned money, year after year, decade after decade? And then come here and preach conservatism and free enterprise. It truly boggles the mind.

In this thread as in the graph, socialists don't just merely lose, they go ignorantly raging into the negative column, tossing expletives and ad hominems, like stink bombs to cover their tracks.

Socialism and fiscal responsibility are diametrically opposed. Factually and historically, demonstrate where that hasn't been the case. In Ontario we saw it with Bob Rae, where he took a huge deficit left by the Liberals and doubled it in four short years, causing S&P to downgrade our credit rating twice.

And now, David Miller, city killer.

Fortunately for the future of the country, weeney minority socialists are being further marginalised through ongoing exposure of their anti-human, totalitarian ideology and zero ability to reason.

Manny if your civil servant ass contributed one red cent to the tax pool you might have a right to talk. I am not a farmer but I know that they get virtually sweet tweet from Sask tax payers compared to the contributrion. However, I have competed against private companies who received massive subsidies from the NDP from for almost two decades and pukes like you said nothing. So go f..k yourself Maryjane.

Manny?Maryjanne.
As I thought you couldnt tell me to a dollar what you are paying in subsidies as you put it. You dont have a clue. But you can come on Kates blog and blather a bunch of crap you know nothing about anonomously. I grow FOOD for a living. Just finishing up my 37th year doing that. I love doing it, and will continue to do it for several more. I am shooting for 50 years farming that my Dad did on the same land his Dad bought in 1916.
So you carry on with your BS MaryJane, these days it must eat your guts that the NDP are now out of business. Get used to it, as it will be a long cold day in hell before they get a sniff at governing in this province again. As Premier Wall said last week, and I think this is very good to remember, "Hope beats Fear".
Mert

Farmers can write everything off,so any taxes they don't pay the rest of us do.

It's not that there are too many farmers - farmer are good and I like to eat - it is that there aren't enough other things - Oil, petrochemicals, software, call centers and even manufacturing - there's no reason Sask couldn't be doing more of these things, and thereby achieving a more balanced economy.

So go f..k yourself Maryjane.
Good retort, Claude. Your eloquence overwhelms.

Mert, it's hard to put a precise figure on what my portion of the burden is for your freeloading, as every other day there is a new subsidy program, if not from Harper, then from Wall. However broadly speaking, the Sask Ag budget this fiscal year stands at about $400 million or $400.oo per capita. Per taxpayer or personally, well that's hard to determine, but it is MUCH,much more than $400.oo.

Hope beats fear. Trite cereal box sloganeering that echoes Devine- Cause it's the right thing to do. There's so much more we can be. Sorry. Been there, heard that.

But putting a precise figure on the per taxpayer burden is a great idea. You right-whingers are always bleating about how there should be a dedicated tax for highway spending. Well, why not for Ag spending where every taxpayer could see just how much of their hard earned dollars are going into that black hole of dependence and entitlement. How much more they are paying for their auto insurance so that farmers can pay less. Let's do it, Brad.

Farmers can write everything off,so any taxes they don't pay the rest of us do.

Posted by: ok4ua

That was hall of fame stupid. Are you a retard or do you just play one on tv?

Manny,

AG subsidies exist here for one reason and one reason only: So you can buy a box of cerial for less than $35 and a littre of milk for less than a case of beer.

Europe and the US so heavily subsidize their ag industry that for us to compete without subsidies, huge portions of the rest of the world would have to quit until there was shortages in the food market which would drive prices up enough to make non-subsidized food profitable. Note also that those who could not afford the additonal price (as in poor people in the third world) would starve.

This is the consequence of Europe's subsidy of small inefficient farms and the American mega-farm (along with billionaire hobby farmers and other Senators.)

And no, I'm not a farmer, don't know any farmers and live in a city in Ontario. My money goes to farm subsidies, too.

Warwick, Milk is supply managed and not subsidized. A box of cereal $35.00. Nonsense. Where do you get those figures from? I don't know if you are aware of this, but the US is a nation and Europe is a union of nations. If there is any validity to the argument that Canada must subsidize because the US and Europe do, then subsidies should be a federal responsibility entirely, notwithstanding that subsidies become incorporated into the cost of doing business, i.e. the price of land, and the US and Europe consume most of what they produce, while Canada, in particular western Canada, exports most of their production, so comparisons between Canada and other jurisdictions are very much apples and oranges.

Yes, your money goes to farm subsidies, too, and on the federal per capita level, we pay the same. The federal budget for Ag this year is about $3 billion or $90.00 per capita. If your provincial per capita costs were at the same onerous per capita level as Sask, the Ontario Ag budget would be in excess of $5 billion. If that were the case, Warwick, I suspect you would be calling for a bit more free enterprise, and a little less socialism.