The royalties will cause the oil patch to slow down in Alberta? This means I won't have some yahoo driving a Jesus Big Truck trying to run me off the highway three times a day like I'm putting up with now? That property prices might come back down to a level where those of us NOT working in the oil patch can afford to buy something?

Oh, darn. I'm all choked up. No seriously, I think I just produced a tear.

I see where the TSX energy index finished up 0.23 per cent today.

Only a moron would choose to have money given to a government who is already overtaxing its citizens, overspending, and providing no benefits ...

This $1.4 Billion will not be seen by you Sean, it will either enter into the pockets of a politician's friend or into the pockets of an overpayed and underworked government employee who is doing an unnecessary job ...

This whole story has been quite refreshing for myself. It shows me just what a small minority most SDA readers represent. I've never seen such a cohort of angry partisan ideologues to be honest. After awhile of reading the crap posted here, I really started to feel like Canadian society was hitting a new low. But with polls showing the most right wing province in the country supporting this move in the 80 - 90% range, it becomes rather apparent that this site doesn't echo the values of all that many. Thank you! Good luck with this trash bin!

I, too, don't really see the downside to this. Macro-economically, Alberta needs to cool off, and there are not many levers a provincial government can pull.

**angry howls: but he did it for the money!***

So what? The effect is the same.

If it was me, I'd be charging infrastructure levys and decommisioning costs (negative externality offsets). But, hey...it's your province.

Federally, I'd slap a CO2 offset tax on every barrel shipped to the states (to drive the Dems nuts) and a "security of supply" surcharge (to drive the Repubs nuts)

Just substitute the phrase ‘global warming' for ‘royalty review' and you'll have an exaggeration and embellishment of future outcomes worthy of Algore.

The National Energy Program established the fact the resource was owned by the people of Alberta.

This battle is between Big Oil and the people of Alberta.

My money's on the people of Alberta.

You can be sure the Golden Goose is making other plans right at this minute. Stelmach is a fool. Albertans will pay for this.

Instead of stating that Albertans want a bigger share of the booty because someday it will be gone is crazy. It would make more sense to start planning now for an economy in Alberta that is not based on the oil sands.

I don't care how much money you put in the bank today, once you stop putting it in, it will start going away. You must find a way to continue finding new ways to get money.

The standard advise for investors and savers it to diversify your portfolio. I give that advise to the Stelmach idiot.

And I might add that diversity is only a good idea when we are talking investments. In that case it is as strength. When applied to the Canadian Society, It amounts to this .... divided we fall!

Sorry to mix metaphors here, but there is so much stupidity around that it is necessary to package some of it up so that it all gets covered.

Remember that line from that Kevin Costner movie "If you build it, they will come"?

There's another line that fits better here: If you tax it, they will leave. And when they leave, they will take your economic boom with them.

The ONLY reason any of that tar sands stuff got built was the Alberta government giving Suncor et al a smoking hot deal on royalties. Fast Eddie thinks that now these big plants are built, he can soak the hell out of these companies. That's because Fast Eddie is a socialist imbecile. Yes, I used the "S" word. Socialist!

You guys want to know how much of an impact Fast Eddie's little stunt made in the USA? None. Not a ripple. I think Bloomberg news mentioned it once. Why? Because the Americans don't care. This is small change to the likes of Exxon. They spill more than Canada uses. They will take their money and walk away to greener pastures.

Alberta tar sands are not the only game in town my friends. The only reason anybody bothered with them was a high oil price and low tax. Half of that equation is gone. New wells will be getting sunk in Saskatchewan, where rumor has it that there may be more oil that Alberta.

Might be time to start turning the screws on your Alberta PC party. Get a screw gun, socialists can be dense.

The funny thing about ths whole thing is that people are saying that the oil companys will move to Sask.They were here but the govt of the day decided that the royalties werent high enough so they all moved to Alberta.The head offices were in Regina,the service companys were in Estevan etc but high royalties sent them to Alberta.Some day look at the map where the oil activity is.It used to stop at the SAsk-Alberta border

The Alberta auditor general has been reporting for seven years (7 years) that the previous government under Ralphie was undercharging royalties, even under the old regime.

There was something fishy going on as Ralphie was able to joke about how the oil companies have not followed the terms of the previous regime.

It's not Stelmach who's the problem ... fact of the matter is Ralphie was in the pocket of Big Oil and was asleep at the switch as a representative of the people of Alberta.

I'm not sure of all the exact detalis yet, but I guarantee you all this stuff about how Ralphie ran interference for Big Oil will come out eventually.

In the meanwhile, what harm could it do if there were more exploration in Saskatchewan and, for that matter, in B.C.?

There's no downside to the western Canadian economy getting stronger outside the Alberta borders.

I have spoken to three colleagues about this, the four of us have been in the patch for decades each, we all tend to vote conservative, we were all born and live in Alberta, and none of us have our shorts in a knot over this.

As Tenebris notes, we are talking about the Government of the Province of Alberta here. It's all well and good to stomp one's feet in heated debate, as both sides in this one have been doing (based on all the reading I've done on it over the last 48 hours), yet it is not good to demand the impossible in the name of the desired.

I think Premier Stelmach has scored about a 3 out of 5 on policy and a 4 out of 5 on politics (or a bit better), ergo (considering his job), I think he did ok. My opinion won't stop CAPP from pulling in one direction, and the Pembina Institute the other, and that's a good thing.

But it's a separate thing from whether or not Mr. Stelmach did a reasonable government deal under the circumstances. Wanting it to be otherwise does not make it so. Sometimes I think the reason some people spend so much time getting their shorts in a knot is because they get a thrill out of it ;-)

Tim, I read your post a second time: all generalities and no documentation. Not one concrete example of what you posit.

Your little screed is similar to the vagaries written by the elementary school students I teach. Along with discussion, I provide templates, with headings and specific language, in order to inhibit the propensity of my students to be both shallow minded and to use general words—“angry partisan ideologues”—which, without concrete examples, mean very little: far too much TV and computer use, I'm afraid.

Your style is also seriously problematic. E.g., It’s “me”, not “myself”; it’s “some time” not “awhile”.

You would have more credibility, Tim, if you made a more comprehensive case. Mere put-downs don’t cut it. As I’d say to my students, “Proofread and edit your work. Then resubmit.”

Danm it Lookout, the topic is the Stelmach Decision, not Tim.

vit:

I think you've hit it on the head.

Stelmach is acting on behalf of the people of Alberta.

Ralphie was running interference for Big Oil.

I'd say Stelmach is doing his job and he was well aware that Ralphie was a puppet of the oil companies. That's why he called the royalty review so quickly.

I know I've been clearing more and more exec jets and turbo props to Manitoba's mini-version of the oil patch. I can't exactly say what it means, but I'd bet a lot of companies are looking elsewhere before starting new projects.

Vitruvius, good point.

The royalty will not matter as much now, but when oil prices start falling again, that is when Alberta will feel the pinch.

The Premier needs to focus on diversifying Alberta economically anyway.

lookout

hope U don't do a grammar and spel cheque on one of us'n dislexics:-)))))

I agree SYF, that the Premier of Alberta is, or should be, acting in the interest of many (what is the trendy term, oh yes) stakeholders, including the citizens and residents of Alberta, the Government of Alberta, the Progressive Conservative Party of Alberta, and, yes indeed, the businesses (local and global) that operate within and serve Alberta and the world.

I agree that's what Premier Stelmach is trying to do, indeed, I don't know of any premier who wasn't. Your gratuitous slur of Premier Klein is not only unnecessary, it is not relevant, because Mr. Stelmach is making decisions under different circumstances than Mr. Klein was.

Vit:

I have always voted for Ralphie but the truth about what the auditor general has been saying for the past seven years will come out at some point.

"This $1.4 Billion will not be seen by you Sean"

Don't care if I ever see a dime of it. I'll just be happy if the amount of traffic on the highway next to my yard drops by 75%. (It's not pleasant when some under qualified 18 year old driving a tanker truck tries to wipe out your family at least twice a week.) And if I'm not having to dust daily because of all the crap that the constant rig moves have been kicking up into the air. Or if I don't have to breathe in the fumes from those miserable @#$%ing flare stacks.

(It's the content, GYM ;-) )

Here's what the auditor general said this year:

http://www.edmontonsun.com/News/Alberta/2007/10/01/4541369.html

Let's not go there, SYF, the topic here is the Stelmach Decision.

"The Oil Companies will just go somewhere else". On Principle.

A. Where ?
B. For how long ?
C. Do they plan to somehow create more Oil by wish fulfillment in some place they can boss around and exploit unmercifully ?
D. What if the new areas to be developed are even more expensive to exploit than the Oil Sands ?
E. Since what date did Big Oil have any principles whatsoever. Except of course --- 'Show us the MONEY'

Alberta has evidently been screwing itself over for decades. Now the multis are whining that it is unfair for Alberta to ask for what others have been getting for all those years.

I feel a tear coming on.

I really do.

set you free pontificates "Just substitute the phrase ‘global warming' for ‘royalty review' and you'll have an exaggeration and embellishment of future outcomes worthy of Algore.

The National Energy Program established the fact the resource was owned by the people of Alberta.

This battle is between Big Oil and the people of Alberta.

My money's on the people of Alberta."

Except it isn't between Big Oil and the people of Alberta. The battle is between private enterprise and government. "Big Oil", as you call it has interests all around the world and can (and do) easily move their focus. It is mid and small oil that is taking the fall.....as the fall in the stock market today in that part of the industry shows.

Those who cry about "Big Oil" are nothing more than socialist morons. "Big Oil" has done infinitely more for Alberta than big government ever has or ever will.

I think that all the people who badmouth Premier Ed's attempt at updating the oil and gas industry's tax regime should go back to their writings, and take out Ed Stelmach, and substitute it with Peter Lougheed.

Would you say the same angry things about Lougheed who bravely increased the original industry taxes and royalties 30 yrs ago?

He heard all the same bluster, bluffs and threats from the oil companies when he made his changes, and yet most of us have done really well because of his gamble.
Nice roads, hospitals, universities, etc.

And what if oil goes to $150/bbl?
Should only the lottery-winning oil companies and their shareholders continue to get all the benefits and profits?

The question is, at what point, ie dollars per bbl, would Premier YOU finally decide to increase the govts take?
And how long would the voters keep Premier YOU in office if oil went to $150/bbl and you didn't take more in taxes?

Premier Ed didn't write the British North America Act but he has to abide by it, and it is his job to look after Alberta's resources.

Think long term, and beyond your backyard...

Alberta's oil patch is overheated. This will do little to those projects already in motion. It will however re-direct some investment funds into Saskatchewan especially if there is a change of government on the 7th.

No, Doug, Alberta has not been screwing itself over for decades, we're doing quite fine thank you, adjusting to the changes in circumstances that come year after year, just like you are.

Albertans are sitting on 300 years worth of petroleum resources and 800 years worth of coal resources. About 40 % of harvested hydrocarbon resources go into chemical, plastics, &c feed stocks, so even if we stopped all use of hydrocarbon resources for heating, cooling, power, and transportation, a mere 150 % increase in consumption in India and China would leave the global demand for Alberta's resources unchanged.

The problem at this point is that Alberta is a bit stressed out from the pressures of the exercise we have been called upon to perform in the name of the good of humanity, so if Premier Stelmach does not address those conditions, it will improve the odds for the communists in the next election.

And, John, we have what, 15 to 20 years of projects in the queue, and a shortage of skilled workers. We shall see of course, but at this point it doesn't look to me like these changes are going to flush that queue. If an exodus does happen, then I will have been wrong.

I agree that "big oil" is not the problem, and agree that "government" is a problem, but that doesn't not change the matter of whether or not Premier Stelmach made a good decision under the circumstances.

"Think long term, and beyond your backyard..."

I am. I'm assuming that the bastards litter in your back yard, too. (Is anyone else sick of picking up the garbage that these @$$holes keep throwing out their truck windows?)

If you're so interested in others not littering your back yard, Sean, you might also consider not swearing in other people's blogs. May we return to the topic please?

All this would just go away if you just had a gov't run crown oil industry.......

Sorry for that.

Just LOL and move on, please don't hijack the thread.

"I am. I'm assuming that the bastards litter in your back yard, too. (Is anyone else sick of picking up the garbage that these @$$holes keep throwing out their truck windows?)"

Sean, I get that too - but there are no oil trucks hauling around here.

I know - it's hard to explain.

Eddie the Goof just lost my vote. The Pickpocket Communists have been running surplus after surplus for I can't remember how many years and what have the average Albertan got to show for it? Does Eddie the Goof really think the govenrment needs more money to squander? The people of Alberta get their share of the Oil money by working for it. Welders, Pipefitters, and all the other trades, Truckers, Cooks, and all the other services, large and small supply and specialty supply companies all receive their share by working in and for the "patch". 1.4 Billion can keep a lot of people working. What will Eddie do with it?

Not to put too fine a point on it, Joe, but the average Albertan has quite a lot to show for our province's natural resource wealth. I agree though, that one of the big questions is what the Government of the Province of Alberta is going to do with the riches of ours that it holds in proxy.

If we can keep a reasonable centrist party like the Progressive Conservatives in government, then there's hope we can continue to grow our communities, hospitals, universities, &c (and maybe even a high-speed train from Calgary through Edmonton to Fort McMurray).

But if Mr. Stelmach's party does not receive sufficient votes, then the real communists will get in. I could do without that. The game afoot here is politics, not engineering.

How much of a royalty is fair?

Ellis Wyatt might have an idea.
"The head of Wyatt Oil. He has almost single-handedly revived the economy of Colorado by discovering oil there. He is quick-tempered, more bound to violent outbursts than other characters. When first introduced, he is aggressive towards Dagny, whom he does not yet know and whom he blames for what are in fact her brother's policies which directly threaten his business. Of all the disappearances of industrialists in the novel, Wyatt's is surely the most dramatic: when the government passes laws and decrees which make it impossible for him to continue, he does not just go quietly away but sets all his oil wells on fire, leaving a jeering note: "I am leaving it as I found it. Take over. It's yours." Without his expertise, the State Science Institute is unable to bring those wells back into production."
(Sourced it at Wikipedia... I know, I know, but the synopsis is, I think, rendered accurately)

Big Oil certainly has thrown off a few tens of billions, or more like hundreds of billions, of dollars over the last 6 or 7 years in Alberta. Just my opinion, but the royalty regime as it presently exists would seem to be "gravy".

Also, it doesn't really seem ethical for the Stelmach government to terminate a contract, 7 years early, with the 2 largest oilsands investors... for that's what Suncor and Syncrude represent, do they not?

"Most people will cheer and then once summer comes, and the election is over, and pink Eddie is re-elected, the industry will come to a grinding halt, but the pubic won’t be interested in the debate anymore. The lack of drilling will be attributed to a downturn in the industry, a bust cycle, possibly blamed on a high dollar or more access to middle east oil."

It behooves me to point out that there's already a lack of drilling this year compared to last in spite of ever increasing oil prices. Take a look at rig counts...

http://www.caodc.ca/rigcounts.htm

...and you'll see the amount of idled rigs is way up in 2007 over previous years.

Can't blame that on Stelmach.

---

In regard to my previous comments, please keep in mind that I live in the thick of oil country here in East Central Alberta. You can't throw a rock out here without skipping it off three or four pump jacks, it seems.

After a while one gets tired of the noise, the traffic (with the accompanying near death experiences), the nasty smells, the inflated prices for any service where you're competing with "the patch", and most of all, the ignorant oil patch employees who act like they're goddamned royalty and expect to be treated as such. (Many of the aforementioned oil workers are so useless that they'd either be unemployable or marginally employable in any "normal" economy. And they let them drive trucks the size of manufactured homes.)

After two years of this I'm damn near at the point where NEPII is starting to look good. If I have problems with Stelmach, it's that he didn't bring in 50% royalties *tomorrow*. Yeah, I'd move if I could, but my daughter having access to her grandparents (who won't move) trumps any other concerns right now. Once they're no longer in the picture, we're out of Alberta's picture too.

I've had it with living in oil country.

Fair enough, Sean, yet don't expect the Premier of the Province of Alberta to make his decisions solely on the basis of your circumstances. Good point about the contracts, Joe B., I wouldn't be surprised if we haven't heard the last of that yet. It will be interesting to follow the details of how that develops.

Sean - are you merely complaining pro forma? I'm an ol' prairie boy - I wish I could head back to the land of the 2pi sky, but the disparities in the housing market and in living standards make such a choice unpalatable.

You want a perfect world? Grow daisies. Even then, odds are you’ll be covered in tarmac in 50 years. So, you either learn to live with irritations, you figure out how to moderate them, or you get ulcers and die.

In this case, Stelmach may just have (possibly inadvertently) forced (ever so incredibly gently) Albertans to look at the bigger picture. Repeat after me (slowly): It’s not always about oil. (Why do I have the weirdest sense of déjà vu?)

OT, but did you here the old definition of a populist? A short-sighted idealist…
How about a conservative? A stubborn traditionalist…

And people wonder why Harper has to resort to the Caesar approach so often.

It’s late, y’all, and I’ve got to torture students tomorrow. Be good, now, y’hear?

A shame the oil patch snuck up on you like that. Living the pristine country life and watching helplessly as pumpjacks jumped up about you like grasshoppers during a plague....

You were there first .... right?

I'm reminded of the urbanites who buy acreages out of town, only to launch petitions against the pig barn up the road.

Ahh, I love the smell of a pig barn in the morning, it reminds me of -- bacon. And take care, Tenebris, I leave you with the words of W. S. Krabill, who said, "Those who are mentally and emotionally healthy are those who have learned when to say yes, when to say no, and when to say whoopee".

Don't you angry people do the math? None of the Toronto papers gave exact details, but as best as I can figure it out, Big Oil only pays 55 cents a barrel if the price of oil is under $55. If the price rises over that, the royalty rate goes up to 4.5% in steps. At current oil prices of $90/bbl, Big Oil has to pay $4.05 per barrel. That's a price rise of $3.50.

Now, the price of oil has risen from $60 to $90/bbl in the last few months alone. Big Oil is getting an extra $30/bbl, and they're whining about having to pay $3.50 of that to the province? Why should the oil companies be the only ones to benefit from this tremendous increase in price? Please, cry me a river.

Today's Post showed the quarterly profits for Encana and Petro-Can; both were over $1 billion. A couple of analysts thought that this might knock a couple of percentage points off profits; hardly earth-shaking.

I think Stelmach did the right thing. It's obvious to outsiders that your economy is overheated. I was at Calgary airport last week, with a 6-hour layover before me flight home to Toronto. I visited two restaurants during that time, and received the worst service I've ever had (with the possible exception of one Chinese place in Toronto where the serving staff spoke little or no English). When I asked about this on another board, I was told there were so many other, better paying jobs that restaurants were forced to accept less than perfect serving staff. Doesn't sound too healthy to me. So, he cools things down a tiny bit, puts some money away (well, maybe; maybe he'll just blow it - we'll have to wait and see), and there's just no chance that the oil companies are going to leave, BECAUSE ALBERTA IS WHERE THE OIL IS.

lookout: "Your style is also seriously problematic. E.g., It’s “me”, not “myself”

I tried pointing that out to lancelot once. But what's sauce for the goose around here is not sauce for the gander.

But if Mr. Stelmach's party does not receive sufficient votes, then the real communists will get in. I could do without that. The game afoot here is politics, not engineering.

Absolutely right and in the discussions I've had with a number of solid conservative voters that are asking what happened to the party they supported for all these years. they are not rich oil tycoons. Some live in small towns some live in large cities and almost every one of them would rather stay home and clean the oven than vote for someone as out of touch as Eddie. I listened to a bit of Rutherford this AM and was surprised that Kevin Taft made more sense than Eddie. If the conservatives want to win the next election they have to find a better leader. Eddie Dion is a dog that won't hunt.

Joe:

Stelmach did what Klein should have done a long time ago.

Just read the auditor general's report.

I've always voted for Klein and I"ll vote for Stelmach.

I am not an Albertan right now but I was an Albertan when the Turdo NEP beat Alberta and Albertans. Premier Loughead 'lead us down that garden path'. The day Eddie slithered in as Premier I had a sick "Turdo daja vu". In 1979 the air of optimism vanished almost overnight. Alberta had many true blue Albertans, some not born in Alberta, in 1979. We went there for the jobs but we liked what we saw and had the Premier not caved to the craven Turdo we would have kept Alberta free and prosperous to this day. Many of us found ourselves jobless and moved elsewhere and Alberta lost it's young, enthusiastic, ambitious Alberta loving workforce. It also lost a sound middle class that would have helped build a solid infrastucture, based on capitalism not communism.

Alberta has been invaded by a great cross section of people - far too many from lefto Tranna for my comfort; but LOTS who want to be the backbone of the least government impaired province in the country.

Did any Albertan even wonder who the 'pipple of Alberta' are? Are they the 'pipple' of Mcsqinty land? I fear they are - Alberta needs a "palace revolt"; you may think that the young 'new Albertans' would never support a Wild Rose Party. I think they would because lucky Alberta got all the ambitious young people who wanted to ESCAPE from ambitious governments. Start squawking-as The Phantom says "build that Party and they will come". There is something wrong with a Premier like this who is willing to cave so easily to government greed and/or social restructuring in Canada. Alberta has most of the young people in Canada - old people are moving to the Yukon for the free medicare the Yukon offered when the Puffins and Dippers were changing our youthful population of working people to a park populated by imported Dippers/Puffins and their parents. The Yukon does not have an economy -it is a welfare territory - we have a RED 'conservative' government leader here too - he has been in power for 6 years....we have 30,000 people, gold, silver, gas, copper, zinc..no mining here. Most of the young people here have moved to Alberta where they are a part of an exciting economy that offers them a lot more than working for the gument shuffling paper across a desk.

Take a deep breath and think about this Alberta - I am still an Albertan in my heart and I wish my adopted province only the best.

Turdo is not PM this time Alberta, Canada has the best and fairest Prime Minister ever elected in Canada - don't flush it all away on a 3rd choice premier and his greedy government $$ addicted cabinet.

"Sean, you might also consider not swearing in other people's blogs."

Swearing? Heh. That's not swearing. When I cut loose, I can walk into a restaurant and send Gordon Ramsey running out with his hands over his ears. ;-)

"the average Albertan has quite a lot to show for our province's natural resource wealth."

We must not be average out here. We see all of the resources being shipped out of our community, but not so many being put back in. My wife is teaching Social 30 out of circa 1992 text books. You have to do the "eeny meeny miney moe" thing with the local newspaper to find which town has a doctor in their emergency room on any given weekend. And we need to send equalization $$$ to Newfoundland? Ptooey.

Not that I believe throwing $$$ at public health care will make things better -- we've mostly established that it won't.

"Good point about the contracts, Joe B., I wouldn't be surprised if we haven't heard the last of that yet. It will be interesting to follow the details of how that develops."

Contracts that are in place should be honored. I'm no big fan of the oil industry right now, but I'm still a big believer in the value of a handshake and keeping one's word.

Anyhow, good night folks, and thanks to all for putting up with me. The shop is backed up and I've got a long day of fixing computers ahead of me tomorrow. Best to get to bed so I'm up at a decent time in the morning.

I am not an Albertan right now but I was an Albertan when the Turdo NEP beat Alberta and Albertans. Premier Loughead 'lead us down that garden path'. The day Eddie slithered in as Premier I had a sick "Turdo daja vu". In 1979 the air of optimism vanished almost overnight. Alberta had many true blue Albertans, some not born in Alberta, in 1979. We went there for the jobs but we liked what we saw and had the Premier not caved to the craven Turdo we would have kept Alberta free and prosperous to this day. Many of us found ourselves jobless and moved elsewhere and Alberta lost it's young, enthusiastic, ambitious Alberta loving workforce. It also lost a sound middle class that would have helped build a solid infrastucture, based on capitalism not communism.

Alberta has been invaded by a great cross section of people - far too many from lefto Tranna for my comfort; but LOTS who want to be the backbone of the least government impaired province in the country.

Did any Albertan even wonder who the 'pipple of Alberta' are? Are they the 'pipple' of Mcsqinty land? I fear they are - Alberta needs a "palace revolt"; you may think that the young 'new Albertans' would never support a Wild Rose Party. I think they would because lucky Alberta got all the ambitious young people who wanted to ESCAPE from ambitious governments. Start squawking-as The Phantom says "build that Party and they will come". There is something wrong with a Premier like this who is willing to cave so easily to government greed and/or social restructuring in Canada. Alberta has most of the young people in Canada - old people are moving to the Yukon for the free medicare the Yukon offered when the Puffins and Dippers were changing our youthful population of working people to a park populated by imported Dippers/Puffins and their parents. The Yukon does not have an economy -it is a welfare territory - we have a RED 'conservative' government leader here too - he has been in power for 6 years....we have 30,000 people, gold, silver, gas, copper, zinc..no mining here. Most of the young people here have moved to Alberta where they are a part of an exciting economy that offers them a lot more than working for the gument shuffling paper across a desk.

Take a deep breath and think about this Alberta - I am still an Albertan in my heart and I wish my adopted province only the best.

Turdo is not PM this time Alberta, Canada has the best and fairest Prime Minister ever elected in Canada - don't flush it all away on a 3rd choice premier and his greedy government $$ addicted cabinet.

The local paper tells the story this way. The present oil royalties collected are 47%. Ed's new royalties will be 65%. Percent of what didn't seem to be defined.
If Ed can't run the province with all the taxes he's collecting now plus the present royalties??
Just like Sean, there are people who don't want economic progress. They are happy like pigs in s**t. Seen it in the Atlantic Provinces.
What about ED?

You say, Jema, that "Alberta has been invaded by a great cross section of people". I agree with your point regarding the influx, although I hardly consider it an invasion, they have been invited.

Nevertheless, it remains the case the Premier Stelmach is making his decisions under the circumstances of the current population of Alberta, not some misty vision of the past. We can't require and inbound workforce and not have it change the status quo. We can't have it both ways.

Stelmach did what Klein should have done a long time ago

I assume you mean raise royalties? You didn't answer my point "And do what with it?". The biggest reason Alberta has had the economic run it is now enjoying is because Ralf cut the royalties to kick start investment. Kind of remimds me of Regan who cut taxes only to see the government revenues go up. Klein cut royalties and the province began running surpluses - related?

It always amuses me to hear all of Eddie's cheerleaders spouting off on the noise, dust, pace etc of our boom times here in ALberta. What's your net worth today folks? Has your house value increased since 1982? And don't tell me that you are concerned for your newly arrived neighbours' well being vis a vis his mortgage, 'cause by now you've paid yours off with all that oil and gas money you've been making for the last 15 years. Oh, you don't work in the Patch, then you must be a government employee then, with a pension paid for by all that oil and gas money, or a farmer rancher with government subsidies keeping your inefficient farm/ranch afloat. I am also amazed at the number of Albertans who would rather be making LESS than what could be offered to you from an Alberta oil or gas comapany, or for that matter any other company scraping the barrel for bodies to fill all those want ads for jobs. I suppose you all want to go back to the days when Alberta was a have-not province, up to their eyeballs in debt so that you can bug Toronto for some money to tide you over 'till next Tuesday? Ed Stelmach just trashed the rule of law in this province by forcing a re-negotiation of a legal contract, under duress. Syncrude and Suncor have 90 days to reach an agreement, or Ed will take measures to enforce a renegotiation on them. Contracts in Alberta are now not worth the paper that they are written on and you folks are OK with that? Hey, I guess your bank can now force a new contract on you, 'cause they aren't getting their fair share on your signed mortgage, or how about your credit card comapny now telling you that they are now charging interest from the day of purchase 'cause they aren't getting their fair share? How about the City of Calgary knocking at your door one day and telling you that garbage pickup is now by the pound, payable in cash, 'cause they have decided that they are't getting their fair share from you Mr & Mrs Calgary homeowner? I'd say that Eddy has opened a can of worms. I'd say that I'm not getting my fair share of government services so I'll just cut back 20% on what I file on my income taxes, provided I still have a job to pay taxes on.

jt:

Just take a chill pill. Everything will turn out just fine.

Ralphie did not do what he should have done to improve infrastructure. He admitted he did not have a plan.

Stelmach has a plan.

Much of the reason the infrastructure is needed is because people are moving in to help develop the oil.

Who should pay for it?

Well, without the oil companies, there would be no need for the infrastructure, right?

Ralphie should have recognized that and raised the royalties three years ago when the recommendations first came out.

Like it or not, the money for roads, schools and hospitals have to come from somewhere.

What would anybody who's blaming Stelmach suggest. Raise income taxes?

Vitruvius, I believe you're correct about us not having heard the last of the breach of those contracts. Last night on BNN, one analyst opined that there could very well be a whole lotta legal wrangling yet to come.

Tenebris wrote "It's not always about oil". I respectfully disagree, at least as far as Alberta's economy is concerned. Sure, the genesis of Alberta's economic boom was oil & NG; these resources STILL drive the economy forward. It looks as though it will remain that way for a long time to come.

I certainly hope that Alberta's economy can diversify over the coming decades; the thing is, the increased royalty concession by the oil companies to the provincial government does not guaranty that Alberta's economy WILL achieve this diversification, in my humble opinion. The more ALL business can wheel unencumbered, the better the chances of a multifaceted economy emerging over time... as long as government curtails its own involvement in the process. Yes, I understand that there has to be certain controls; unbridled pollution, for example, can't be tolerated, but surely reasonable accomodations can be worked out.

I guess that Ellis Wyatt posting earlier was thrown out there because I really feel at least some moral outrage that investors can finance capital intensive projects, experts can apply hard-won knowledge on said projects, mega wealth can be created because of these projects... and yet, in the end, somehow "the people" are construed as owning the ENTIRE venture... the rigs, the trucks, the pipelines, you name it... when in reality, the only thing "the people" have a real moral claim on is a vast, empty stretch of undeveloped wilderness.

Just my opinion.

I really don't understand where these "greener pastures" that people keep talking about are supposed to be. Venezuela maybe? Iran? Sudan? The facts are, Alberta is where the oil is; they just might have more than Saudi Arabia at this point. No one is going anywhere, there will be no massive abandonment. No new super giant fields have been discovered for decades, there is less oil in the world everyday, and you people honestly expect me to believe that oil companies will walk away from the second largest reserve in the world? I laugh at your incredible ignorance. It would take a lot more than a few dollars a barrel to make Big Oil abandon Alberta.

Get a life. There is no boogie man.

SYF: Ralpho was raking it in when he was running the show! How do you think that Alberta's debt was paid off? Eddy doesn't have a cash flow problem, his government raked in an $8 billion surplus, last year, do you read? He "needs" $2 billion more? Justify it. If Eddy has a problem with who is getting what in the form of cash from this boom, phone Ottawa. They are the ones raking in the dough, on corporate and personal taxes, but especially on GST. To the tune of 76.8% of all the taxes my corporation and myself paid out over the last 12 years. I am especially concerned that this government has rendered signed contracts in Alberta to not being worth the paper that they are written on. You should be, too.

jt:

Roads, schools, hospitals.

SYF: SURPLUS, that's usually money left over after your govenment has already paid for roads, schools, government salaries and pensions etc. Go post back at the Western Standard where you usually do.

Mr. Stelmach needs the up to $1.4 billion more in order to win the next election. Look, you don't like it, I don't like it, reality doesn't care. You can't just snap your fingers and change overnight human behaviour.

The big question, as I've mentioned, is how the state plans to spend our proxy moolah. That's where the rubber hits the road. And that's a tough problem, because as Niels Bohr noted, "Prediction is very difficult, especially of the future".

Another thing, for the sake of accuracy. You people talking about the record price of oil; that "record" is in US dollars. We are working in Canadian dollars, which have appreciated dramatically vs. the US dollar. A $30 US dollar rise in the price of oil is nothing like a $30 Canadian dollar rise in the price of oil.

Kevin: the C-Buck is not rising, the US Buck is falling vs the C-Buck, as well as a lot of other world wide currencies. The price of oil is in USD. A falling USD raises the price of oil to offset the devaluation of the USD vs oil. Same goes for gold. The higher the C-Buck goes vs the USD, the less profit to canadian producers of oil. They are paid in USD which devalue daily. Don't by USD, buy their companies and borrow in USD to do so.

Actually, now that the decline in the USD has brought the CAD to within 4% of parity, the price rises are quite close. Here's one thing I find interesting though. Mouthpieces on either side of the argument will tend to use whichever price, spot or futures, that supports their argument per it's dependance on a higher price or a lower price. Funny how that works.

The suggestion that the Alta govt. diversify the economy? How? By giving forgivable loans of 5 million apeice to a hundred nutbags who couldn't get any other tooth fairy. What about the strong silent free enterprising Alta type who doesen't need govt handout. Whats stopping them from diversifying NOW?

Corporations have no heart or conscience, it is only in the mind of the chief exec. Most chief execs would throw over any economy if he got a 10 mil bonus and a fat 50,000 pension

Original oilsanders tried to figure out a way to lower costs and make money at 12 dollar oil. I understand Alta. took a 1% royalty. So oil goes to 70 bucks, Cos. make 60 bucks gross profit and Alta gets another 60 cents---on the old deal??? That is fair???

I hear there should be a little bit of cooling taking place, and a step back to see if you guys aren't making too much of an environmental disaster. Why does it have to be developed all at once?

The trouble is govt. deals are always made by a non business person, usually a boomer for re-election, and finally the Co. boys are miles ahead. And why not? Look how the Sask govt. gave away Potash Corp, what they got and what itis worth now. A simple simple extractive business. BC govt was not going to sell BC Rail. no indeedy not, but they leased it for 975 years. Thats not a sale?

The BC Govt set up "Tree Farms" and "Forest management licenses" , since used only for selling back and forth by cos, and to be liquidated by chief executives if their bonus was based only on increasing shareholder value. Our biggest firm, And BC owned and managed--McMilland Bloedel-- was liquidated that way

Only we the people can help our province or country along IF we have the real info. And stop the greedy guts prevalent in BOTH the govt and
corporate mangement.

I'm baaack -- should have laid off the curried vegetables we had for supper. Insomnia. Whee.

Vitruvius: If all oil patch employees were like you then my litany of complaints would be reduced by orders of magnitude. My issue is not so much with the oil companies as it is with morons they are comprised of.

Have you driven the roads in our area lately? They’re dangerous as hell. I was nearly killed last week. I had a flat tire and had to crawl under my mini-van to pull the spare off. Luckily I heard a truck approaching and popped out from under the van. The truck that passed me was a Plains Transport unit with two tanks behind the tractor and it was easily doing over 140 kph. I was between two hills and the driver was building up speed for the next hill. He didn’t slow down for me and he didn’t have the courtesy to move to the next lane as there was no traffic coming. The draft from him passing my van rocked it so violently that it popped off both jacks. I was a few seconds away from wearing a 1989 Chevy Astro van.

I’ve spoken to the local RCMP about this sort of thing several times and they admit that they’re completely overwhelmed. They simply don’t have the manpower to keep the roads safe in our area. The two constables I talked to spoke of oil patch employees and Saskabushers as being the worst culprits.

The majority of the people who don’t work in the oil patch out here are currently extremely fed up with those who do. A large part of this resentment has not arisen out of jealousy about money as much as it has from a complete lack of civility on behalf of oil patch employees towards others. A lot of people are cheering right now about seeing these biters being knocked down a few pegs. And if it slows the patch down some (we all know it won’t kill it off), so much the better.

Kate: We knew there was oil patch activity in the area when we moved in two years ago, but we weren't expecting it to rocket upwards as it did in 2005/2006 along with the oil prices. That caught a lot of people by surprise. We also weren't expecting the oil companies to be as...aggressive…as they were.

It's one thing to move in next to a pig barn and start bitching. It's another when the pig barn has a legal right to move onto your land over your objections and set up operations. Which is exactly the case with oil companies. Pretty much every well in this area is a sour one, but that doesn't stop oil companies from trying to punch holes in our home quarter.

We've had to chase away quite a few of the buggers. Thankfully, they usually get the hint that we're a not people they want to deal with when we set a tape recorder out to record all conversations and I photograph everyone who comes to negotiate. And then we warn them that any employee of theirs who comes on our land can expect to be videotaped and photographed as well.

There was one interesting incident last year when we talked to reps from the company that owns a well up the road from us. It USED to have sour gas warning signs on it until the recent owners took it over. Then the signs disappeared and they started calling it a sweet gas well. Funny thing is that we own an H2S meter (regularly calibrated) that we use to take readings around the well site. It's definitely NOT a sweet gas well. You should have seen how absolutely panicked the reps were when we produced our meter and the log book we keep of readings from their well. Not only did they immediately lose interest in drilling in our yard, but also the sour gas warning signs suddenly reappeared at the "sweet gas" well.

Even when they’re not drilling on the home quarter they’re still bastards to deal with. Their employees are disrespectful and I wind up going out the next day to pick up all kinds of litter. They regularly leave gates open and let cattle out. Damage to fencing is another big problem. We make sure that our agreements with the oil companies include a clause that incinerators will be attached to all flare stacks so that we don’t have to breathe in the crap that is spewed out. Of course, the employees responsible for doing the flares never bother reading the contracts and we have to phone and complain every time they flare without the incinerator.

This is what we have to deal with. A hog operation I could probably tolerate, but I'm not big on dishonesty, and you get a lot of that when you deal with “the patch”. This is not to say that all oil patch employees are weasels – many are genuinely good people and I even regard a few as friends. Sadly, from what I’ve seen, the good ones are in the minority.

It would be nice if we could let oil companies onto our land to pull out the oil/gas without having to worry. We could use the money, and as someone else pointed out, our vehicles don’t run on pixie dust. But as things stand, it’s not a good value proposition for us. The hassle, the damage to our land and water, the health problems caused by their not using incinerators as they promise to, the lying and cheating, the fecklessness of the EUB when it comes to standing up for land owners… It’s just not worth it. And it shouldn’t have to be like this.

JT: The days of incompetent farmers living off government handouts is pretty much over. These days they’re all being propped up by off farm jobs in “the patch”.

I’d also like to point out that it’s pretty damn said if the primary consideration in your life is money. Could I make more working for oil companies? Absolutely. Except that it would require me to participate in what I’ve come to view as a very dishonest process, and I refuse to do that. Integrity should come before income. There’s also the matter of doing what you love, and I can’t say that I have much of an interest in most patch related jobs. We need cooks, childcare workers, store clerks, and even artists too. It’s too bad that many of these folks can’t afford to buy a home in their own province now.

Joe B: I only own the top several inches of my soil. If I owned all of it including the mineral rights, I would say that the royalty is unwarranted. If the oil industry can force its way onto my property to extract revenue from it then I feel it is only fair that I can force them to give up some of that revenue. If value can be confiscated from my property without my consent then I feel it is a tad hypocritical of the oil companies to cry foul when value is confiscated from them without their consent. Their entire business model is predicated on doing the former to me.

Gunney99: I am in favour of economic progress. I’m also in favour of good sex. In the case of the latter, I believe it belongs within the confines of a marriage. I’m not a big fan of orgies. What we’re seeing right now in Alberta is one big economic orgy. The problem with those is that the day after can be quite a come down. I’ll take sustainable economic development over the free-for-all we’ve had this past two years, thanks.

Hmmm - first comment and I am already inclined to reply.

"The royalties will cause the oil patch to slow down in Alberta? This means I won't have some yahoo driving a Jesus Big Truck trying to run me off the highway three times a day like I'm putting up with now? That property prices might come back down to a level where those of us NOT working in the oil patch can afford to buy something?"

Well, Sean, when the "yahoo" driving that big truck goes to his new job in Sask or BC or whereever, yes you will be able to pick up his foreclosed house quite cheaply, but your pick of where to buy things and where to eat will be somewhat limited as the "yahoo" and his cohorts are not spending their money at the stores and restaurants and car dealerships and snowmobile shops etc. etc. etc, so there will be fewer of them

You see, Sean - people like you have absolutely no idea how their lives are being impacted by "Big Oil" and as Kate's post suggests will probably never even realize that the royalty announcement was the trigger to the downturn in the economy and they will never quite figure out how come they just don't seem to be getting the raises they used to or can't quite buy as much as they used to.

But they won't have that "yahoo" on their tail.

But maybe the fact that "Big Oil" is gone will make up for the lowered standard of living of those "NOT" working in the oil patch....hope you enjoy it.

By the way - I am also "NOT" working in the oil patch, but I recognize the golden goose when I see it.

Tim -But with polls showing the most right wing province in the country supporting this move in the 80 - 90% range, it becomes rather apparent that this site doesn't echo the values of all that many

See my comment to Sean above - just proves that "80-90%" of the bleeding hearts in this country have no idea of how "Big Oil" impacts them.

When the teachers in the Ontario School Board start seeing a downturn in their pension funds do you think they will clue in to the fact that their biggest investment "Big Oil" has also suffered a downturn.

No they won't but they will sure pump their fists in the air and say - Wow, they sure stuck it to "Big Oil".

Sigh

Sean: gee, Sean I've been working this oil Patch for close on 30 years, what farmer isn't working "off farm" in the Patch? Hear them complaining about their incomes? Then we just heard from you an "ethical" farmer who just can't bear the thought of working in "dirty oil". Show me a farmer NOT concerned about money, sport, that's why they take off-farm income, or run another business off-farm. SOme of them even hate the CWB, too. It's ALL about money, 'cause the guvmint takes too much off your paycheck. Yours included. What do you get for it? Line ups for health care, crappy roads, leaky schools, with a guvmint that dosen't spend money on where it counts and is still running an $8 billion surplus. What the f***** are they spending it on, then? Frankly, this bunch of commie twits couldn't run a pop shop, without going into debt! Thay just woke up to the fact that there's a boom on? In effect they are negotiating whith YOUR money generous pensions and paycheck for themselves, while your kid's school roof leaks. Then they claim, oh we need more money. Snow job! You will see not dime one of this extra cash rip-off, it'll go into some unionized government employee's pocket, not yours. And your taxes aren't going to go down. You will see a PST in the near future, with this bunch of lazy crooks.

Sean, Sean, Sean "If the oil industry can force its way onto my property to extract revenue from it then I feel it is only fair that I can force them to give up some of that revenue"

I have seen Farmers out here in our country "east central Alberta" become wealthy through the oil pump jacks dotting their land from the "oil industry forcing" their way onto their land. "Big Oil" pays hansomely for the right to drill on private land - I have examples, however will not divulge that private information here.

"Big oil" does not have the right to come on the land without permission and they pay big dollars to the landowner for the right to do so.

All increased taxes are paid for ultimately by consumers. This new tax, an operating cost, will show up in natural gas rates, at the pump and in all products using petroleum.
Most of this increase will be paid for by consumers in Ontario and Quebec. Thank you in advance for contributing to the Alberta treasury.

it may surprise some of Red Stelmachs farmer buddies but the oil companies pay more for the subsurface rights than they do for the surface. The bonuses go into the Alberta coffers, the leases are just that, leases and rent is due yearly in addition to the bonus paid.

strange that all the "success" stories touted here involve little greedy asides like not having to share the road with the service companies or having someone lose their house so they can acquire it at a discount. or having someone move away out of the province and hope Alberta becomes some sort of rural backwater.

If Ed had vision he should say the 1.4 billion will be spent immediately on a double divided highway to Ft. Mac. which will be finished before.

It will be interesting to see how his "discussions not negotiations" with suncor and syncrude which have contracts with the province not just royalty arrangements. given the changes in the last week maybe the next few companies to come in with 10 billion dollar proposals will insist on the same. I know I would.

I Like Roughneck's tagging Eddie's hapless band the "Progressive Communist Party of Alberta""...there's a lot of truth in that joke.
Eddie is isolated in this edmonchuck thrine room and rules by what he see's in the 2 local Asper broadsheets ( both of which are decidedly editorially left)...these papers have been making policy for Eddie since he became the default King.

Eddie craves to be "loved: and the leftist journaists tell him how ti be loved by the people...except the people the left leaning journalists represent are just 17% of the Alberta voting block....so Eddie continues to take dictation from the scribes as to what policies will make him loved....all of which , strangely, mimic Ottawa liberal welfare state expansion and Liberal kleptocratic revene policies.

There is no need for the liberals to win a seat in Alberta because the PCs have made themselves over in adopting liberal policy in practial application.

Eddies, Ottawa lib-light resource/economics will end Alberta's growth and tank their economy...but hey..at least it got Eddie loved by the local media bolsheviks.

Skimming the comments here there seems to be a lot of people who think "The People Of Alberta" are entitled to the profits of "Big Oil". This is not a Conservative concept. It is a socialist/Liberal concept.

A)first and foremost, IT ISN'T YOUR MONEY. It belongs to the people who risked the capital and did the work. Without them the stuff would still be dirty sand like it has been for umpteen million years.

B)Stelmach has broken contracts that were supposed to be in force until 2011. That's the same thing Hugo Chavez did in Venezuala for the same reason. Chavez just did it more, and he doesn't as reasonable as Stelmach on TV.

What Stelmach and Co. have done here is normally known as -stealing-. It is morally repugnant and fiscally stupid. It is THE thing that keeps this country down, and you suckers are falling for it yet again.

At the risk of repeating myself, the -only- reason "Big Oil" (read: normal citizens investing their money that they saved from their work, because that's where money comes from) is in Alberta at all is because previous provincial governments promised not to steal all their earnings. Otherwise, as someone said above, they'd be in Saskatchewan. They left Saskatchewan because the Sask Socialists stole their money.

Which leads me to:

C)If you think you're going to see a nickel of that money Fast Eddy is stealing, you're dreaming in Technicolor. Its socialism. They only take it and spend it on getting re-elected, they don't give it back.

Take a hard look at the huge economic boom that's -not happening- in Saskatchewan right now, fueled by all that black gold that's in the ground but not getting dug up, and ask yourself if that is the future you want for Alberta, and Canada as a whole.

I'd have thought more of you lot would have understood this by now. I'm quite disappointed.

Sean,

A couple of points.

You must be terribly stressed that you aren't quite living in a perfect world.

If must frustrate you that you know so much about everything and also exactly how everyone should live and behave, but darn it! they just won't listen to you.

Keep eating that curry it will allow to toss and turn all night while keep thinking about how much better the world would be if there weren't tough crude men out there doing the dirty work, so you can have your artists and social workers and other limp wrist professions that you apparently love so dearly.

I hope this message won't kick me off your same sex marriage, invitation list, whenever that comes to be.

The Phantom at 11:19.
Exactly right. I must say I find it quite disturbing to see so many commentators here, even from some whose opinions I value on other matters, advancing an anti-business socialist mindset. I expect to see that in the sound-offs at the Calgary Herald and Edmonton Journal but not here at SDA.

The root of the problem here is the mindset of collective ownership of the raw resources. Through the good fortune of merely residing in Alberta , citizens are granted "ownership". But this "ownership" does not pass any of the tests of ownership for real or intellectual property. Individual Alberta citizens paid nothing to acquire possession of the resource. They have provided no labour or capital to find and develop it. They get no dividend or payback from this ownership, except in a collective sense. And lastly, they cannot sell it to someone else. In reality ownership, while in theory residing with the "people", in fact lies with the cadre of well connected elites in government. A perfect socialist setup!!

PS I wouldn't be as optimistic as Angry Roughneck that it will be business as usual this winter and spring. I really do think that the high risk and high cost deep gas drilling will be moved to North Eastern B.C. this year. Even with the limited amount we do know at this stage, the economics under the new royalty regime no longer favour Alberta. Impacts will be seen in Grande Prairie, Edson, Hinton, Pincher Creek and there will be layoffs in Calgary head offices. All of this will have spillover impacts on those communities.

Sean, I take all your points.

You addressed me in one of them; "If value can be confiscated from my property without my consent then I feel it is a tad hypocritical of the oil companies to cry foul when value is confiscated from them without their consent. "

I don't think you're taking my point. YOU should PERSONALLY be compensated by the oil companies for the use of your land to develop the reserves under the surface. Handsomely compensated, at that. By the same token, if you personally don't want the resource which lies beneath your land developed, then you are within your rights, or you SHOULD be within your rights, to say "No!"

I know, it's simply not realistic for you, and each of your neighbours in turn, to open one-on-one negotiations with Petro Canada to strike a price which suits you both; that's what the provincial government is there for, or it should be there for reasons like that. There should be, and are I believe, rules governing what Business can and cannot do as regards someone else's private property.

Put it this way. If you personally own property-- land-- you should have not only surface rights, but ownership rights for EVERYTHING which lies beneath the land bound by your property lines. Develop any resources at your own expense; keep all the profits gained, or shoulder all the losses incurred, in your venture; pay a nominal amount of tax for infrastructure (none will be needed if your venture fails to turn a profit). Build your refineries. Deal with the environmental concerns. Pay your suppliers. Pay your employees...

Or, you can cede the rights to profits, with up-front compensation to yourself of course, by letting professional developers come on to your property and ADD value to the dormant underground resource. We're not all that far apart, Sean.

Royalties on oil and gas reserves... check that... Royalties on oil and gas DEVELOPMENT are inconsequential to what this development actually throws off in supplementary economic growth. KevinB at 12:59 AM relayed a bunch of numbers, none of them necessarily incorrect. But you can't simply take them each on their own, without linking them up. Oil's up from $60 to $90? Production didn't go up by 50% in 6 months, however. The revenue increase on the goods produced today will go to more salaries, more equipment, more suppliers in peripheral industries (right down to the waitress slinging coffee in the cafe at 2:00 AM) in an effort to take advantage of the $30 rise in oil. But development always lags the uptick in prices. Sure, the Oilsands are going great guns now, but just give it 5 years, or 15 years, or 8 years, or ??? All these tens of billions of dollars invested by Big Oil (and me, and you, some guy in North Bay, some lady in Brooklyn) will THEN be for naught. Think ocean liners about 100 years ago.

And Neil (4:12AM), sorry, but no, P.C.S. simply wouldn't be the entity it is today if the province of Saskatchewan still owned it. It takes a guiding hand, read, "chief exec" to propel a business on the road to prosperity, especially one as big (now) as Potash Corp, which, by the way, is experiencing a boom in world agriculture akin to the boom in oil. The government owns Sasktel; talk about small potatoes, compared to Telus and Manitoba Tel, each of which went private years ago.

My comment at Red Tory's place. I thought I might share it here. He video was so arrogant and condescending nearly vomited half way through.

Red,

Your theory is let's destroy the economies of the West (China, Russia and India will tell you to pound salt) just in case Al Gore happens to be right.

Consider this ... Al Gore is a politician and therefore is fundamentally dishonest.

He is also a hypocrite, not a scientist. He doesn't actually even know what a real scientist is since he consulted with so many phony ones for his movie.

History shows that there have never been the kind of sea level rises that you are so afraid of.

The number of real scientists who are coming on line (now that there is less fear of losing their jobs), is great and they are all telling a very different story about how the climate and the SUN (the big ball that truly has influence over our climate) and sea currents actually work or don't work to affect climate.

How lucky to I feel?

I feel lucky enough to not destroy the economy as insurance against the possibility of drastic climate change.

If you think that destroying the economies of the West will not bring about all the other disasters that you point to in the lower right hand box of your fantasy grid, you are sadly mistaken.

Clinton said it long ago and it was probably the only truly wise thing that ever came out of his mouth. I quote: "It's the economy stupid"

I see you and others of your ilk as frightened little creatures who would sell your souls for some kind of government guarantee of a safe, down filled life, preferably in a high paid caring profession for some gov't agency or another. Or professor/teacher would be a nice safe place.

If only we could get Kate to stop pissing on the parade eh?

Sorry, I put that comment on the wrong thread ...

My Bad.

jw

"Big oil" does not have the right to come on the land without permission and they pay big dollars to the landowner for the right to do so.

Yes, oil companies have to have permission, but it doesn't have to be the landowner's permission.

Which leads to another point, if the minerals were vested in the owner of the land, the royalty arguments would be moot. Not going to happen, but it would sure simplify things. Take a look at Texas with an economy the size of the whole of Canada. That's the difference a little free enterprise can make.

Although people like Sean have some legitimate complaints with the price of allowing free enterprise to, at least partly, operate, it still beats living with the negative attitudes of the do-nothing economy next door.

I don't like the way this royalty thing was done. The anti-free enterprise politics will do more damage than the raising of the royalties. Fortunately the spirit of free enterprise, in Alberta, is more resilient than than socialism. Free enterprise is mainly about confidence and attitude, and Alberta has plenty of that.

Phantom (11:19)
Richard Saunders (12:09)

YES!

Have I missed something?

Is Stelmach threatening to nationalize oil companies?

What's with all the Ed the Red and Alberta Communist Party rhetoric?

Fact: Alberta's royalty regime was the lowest of any jursidiction in the WORLD.

Fact: Even with the increase, it's still going to be competitive. Oil companies are not going to move anywhere.

Projection: Stelmach said in his fireside address that Albera's population is expected to grow by another 300,000 by 2025. I believe it's going to be even faster.

Fact: Ralph Klein had been warned by experts in his bureaucracy that infrastructure needs would escalate because of an anticipated influx of population. The auditor general of Alberta has pointed out advice on how to deal with this problem was ignored. Alberta AG Fred Dunn first pointed this out back in 2004 and the issue dates back to 2000.

Fact: When Klein left office, he admitted he did not have a plan to deal with the pressures associated with population growth.

Interpretation: Klein refused to do what Stelmach recognized had to be done even before the leadership campaign. Now that Stelmach has announced a way by which infrastructure pressures (a direct result of activity in the oilpatch), he's being piled on. It was not Stelmach who created the problem, but it was Klein who, by his own admission, ignored it.

Fact: Early on in his premiership, Stelmach said the economy should be pedal to the medal and that he would not stand in the way of private development of the oil sands. How is that a socialist stance?

Chill, people. It's going to be OK because Stelmach HAS A PLAN.

I have been working in the oil industry for the last decade and can tell you that greed is going to kill this Golden Goose. When oil was down to $11/brl in 1998, the only thing that kept investment coming into the province was the business friendly model that Co's and Gov't were working within. With that benefit gone, watch what happens when OPEC opens the taps and increases supply. The oilsands and small exploration Co's have a difficult decision to make now as thier profit margins will be substantially decreased and ROI (return on investment) delayed by years. Aquiring investment money for new projects is going to be a tough chore when oil prices subside.
The timing of this is deplorable. The bulk of the drilling in Alberta is for NG and that sector of the industry has already experienced a pullback with the current low market cost. I noticed the slow down 8 to 12 months ago as Co's started budgeting the higher costs of labour and resources into thier formulae. The threat from the Fed's over CO2 emissions still hangs over our heads as the Energy industry waits for the other shoe to drop.
I and many others in the industry have already seen project postponed, shelved and cancelled here in Alberta and have begun to start working in the US, Russia, India, Africa, China, ect. I personally have 2 jobs in Saskatchewan then head to Russia on an ongoing rotation. Keep in mind these worker's are not paying tax (or spending money!) here when they are in other countries or provinces. They aren't spending money on hotel rooms, they aren't eating in restaurants, they aren't buying fuel for those Big Ass Trucks that Sean likes to complain about, they just are not contributing into the economy like they were.
Don't think that this is the only place in the world to get oil 'cause it is far from it! The party might be over but thier is still the hangover to contend with and I think 12 to 18 months from now we are all going to need an aspirin.

...I for one will stand with Sean on this.

It is easy to brow beat him, as some have done here (surprisingly Kate also), and not live in his shoes or yap like the NIMBY types who don't have 5 tonners ripping up and down their roads on a daily basis.

Yes we need Big Oil, but I think that industry has been largely running around like tomorrow's consequences aren't a result of today's actions.

Enforcement of regulations are lacking. Government Regulation? Isn't that a swear word around here?

Right, and all oil businesses are honest true blue Albertans at heart. Tell that to the pipeline workers seeing Albertan oil and jobs being piped out of province to be refined.

Then sold back to us at triple the price.

Now is it all Big Oil's fault?

No, just like any other business, why spend on petty little things when you can make more profit otherwise?

While we need to maintain a favourable climate for investment, we also need to establish a favourable climate for our grandkid's future.

Hey let's be honest Big Oil has being doing well and unscathed for the last decade or more since NEP. Maybe it's a result of the same victim mentality we howl at when leftist airheads do it.

Sure we got rules, and while my step-daughter does environmental testing for wells all over Alberta there is a lot of 'looking the other way' when it comes to Big Oil environmental issues.

------------------------

I guess Ralph-Bucks were a pipe dream can't be done, just ask Alaska. I guess people dying on Highway 63 are not really important, well because, um, do we even got a Highway 63?

I guess if Big Power wants to run a huge power grid lines through your land it doesn't matter if you object let alone get told of it almost after the fact.

Heck, if Big Rail accidentally spills heating oil into one of Alberta's heaviest used family lakes - it doesn't matter either.

As for Albertagirl's remark of a downturn will cause a limited selection ("but your pick of where to buy things and where to eat will be somewhat limited") well tell me what selection will I loose as a middle class earner? Smitty's instead of Chez Lounge? Chev's instead of BMW's?

Whooohoo. I like eating at home thank you.

Shop at K-mart instead of Walmart?

Whooohoo. I don't buy Chinese anyway.

Food? Most of Safeway's stuff isn't from Canada anyway, even if it is labeled "product of Canada", like ice cream, I mean sugar butter.

Whoohoo. I shop at Farmer's Markets with real Albertans selling real food.

Are you saying we'd end up back in the Dark Ages if Big Oil pulls out? Oh, I don't have a big ugly mortgage or fancy car, so not too worried. Spend within one's limit.

But where'd Big Oil go? They'll be back, oil doesn't grow on trees you know.

-------------------

So, yes, Sean does have a right to express his dismay how his lifestyle has changed due to the locust plague springing up all around him.

Something has changed here at SDA over the past year, people used to stand up for the little guy or if in disagreement, just let it slide but not gang up on him as I am watching here.

Maybe it's just me.

Good bye.

set you free (12:41PM)

I see your side of the argument, I really do. But nothing is cast in stone.

You wrote "Fact: Alberta's royalty regime was the lowest of any jursidiction in the WORLD."

You also wrote "Fact: Even with the increase, it's still going to be competitive. Oil companies are not going to move anywhere."

The point is, Alberta's royalty regime is now about to change. The North Sea beckons. The Indian Ocean has potentially large untapped reserves. Just off the coast of Western Africa there seems to be geology which indicates there just might be large, fairly easily recoverable energy reserves. Political regimes have also been known to change; Namibia mightn't be a backwater 30 years from now (think Chile).

As for managed growth, how did the United States do it? From the end of the Civil War to the present time, the American population has grown from around 30 million to 300 million; LARGE tracts of undeveloped frontier were built up to what it has become over the course of little more than a century. I daresay small, local government had more to do with managing that growth than the federal government, or even the state government (which areas are slated for industry, which ones for residential, etc...)

I stand to be corrected on the following...
I understand the state of Michigan completed a new expressway a few years ago (bridges, overpasses, etc...) by charging a special tax, which had a sunset date, on Michigonians. The state will now extract a toll on this expressway; where the proceeds go, I don't know.

Every couple years I go over the Coquihalla, both out to and back from the coast; 2 $15(?) tolls. Me every 2 years or so, and millions of others each year.

I believe you're correct about the 300,000 by 2025 being way, way too low an estimate of Alberta's population growth. Better that than population decline (ol hoss; "it still beats living with the negative attitudes of the do-nothing economy next door.")

...oh regarding oil all over the place comment, like in the oceans around the world.

Just one comment - Soylent Green was ahead of its time.

Jan:

Correct me if I'm wrong on any of these points. It's just that I like to stick to estabishing facts and I despise being tossed about like a rag doll by an emotional response based on fear of the unknown. That's why I despise Al Gore.

1) Is OPEC currently producing at less than full capacity?

Far as I understand, there are no more taps to open.

2) Granted the price of oil was at $11 in 1989 and could cycle back down again. I believe there was a slowdown in activity at that time.

The reality is, it's at $91 today and much of the resource can be found in northern Alberta.

3) The natural gas sector has refused to hire and in fact has blacklisted suppliers who have charged exorbitant rates.

How is this a bad thing?

4) Have you seen any details of the new structure anywhere?

I haven't, but maybe that's because I haven't been looking hard enough.

Before the structure change, Alberta had the lowest rates in the world. Where are they now in comparison to other jurisdictions?

5) Where will the province and municipalities find funding for much-needed infrastructure?

If not from royalties, would you be in favour of deficit financing? Or would increases in personal taxation rates be to your liking?

Set you free;

OPEC's capacity will be increased as more storage facilities, pipelines and LPG transports come on line. Some projects are nearly at commision dates.

Oil was at $11 in '98, less than a decade ago. I wasn't talking about 1989.

NG sector has the right to accept or deny any supplier or service Co. they like, it's called a free market system. Are you suggesting government intervention to hire these overpriced Co's?

New structure is available for download on the Govenment of Alberta site. Go there, download, and read. Literacy can be useful!

Ummmmmm, I don't know? Maybe we could use those surplusses we seem to be finding from time to time? Perhaps we could rejig the municipal tax collection regime so it isn't a top down system where every level of beauracy doesn't get to line their pockets before it gets back to the municipality?

Chill, people. It's going to be OK because Stelmach HAS A PLAN.

Pardon me if I don't put much stock in some politician's "plan". The legitimacy of his plan rests on the activities of free enterprise. Thousands of people making thousands of individual decisions. Predicting those thousands of decisions is impossible. That has always been the conflict between top-down planning and free enterprise. Successful economies minimize top down planning in favour of natural growth. Where there is a need, free enterprise will fill it if the "planners" don't get in the way.

As with all politician's "plans", this one will be a day late and a dollar short.

Re: set you free at 12:41

Alberta's royalty regime was the lowest of any jurisdiction in the WORLD Could you please provide a reference to back up that statement? Before Blair's tenure in Britain the royalties were 0%. Now granted, the Brits had other means of taxing the production in order to get their pound of flesh. Oil and gas economics are a very complex specialty. Royalties are but one piece of the picture; there are bonus' and leases to be paid and taxes at every level of government (federal, provincial and municipal districts for us). At the end of the day what matters is return on investment. The CAPP review of the royalty report quotes a study done by J.S Herold showing Canada in dead last place at a 12% rate of return on investment when compared internationally - U.S at 15%, Norway/England North Sea at 18%, Russia at 26% and China at 39% - see page 22 of this document.

Oil companies are not going to move anywhere I agree. However, capital knows no borders nor do the geophysical and engineering specialists who work for Canada's oil and gas majors. These companies can and will continue to make really good money, but by investing more of their capital and expertise outside of Alberta. Albertans will be impacted by this slowing of investment.

experts in his bureaucracyToo funny!!

Re: set you free at 12:41

Alberta's royalty regime was the lowest of any jurisdiction in the WORLD Could you please provide a reference to back up that statement? Before Blair's tenure in Britain the royalties were 0%. Now granted, the Brits had other means of taxing the production in order to get their pound of flesh. Oil and gas economics are a very complex specialty. Royalties are but one piece of the picture; there are bonus' and leases to be paid and taxes at every level of government (federal, provincial and municipal districts for us). At the end of the day what matters is return on investment. The CAPP review of the royalty report quotes a study done by J.S Herold showing Canada in dead last place at a 12% rate of return on investment when compared internationally - U.S at 15%, Norway/England North Sea at 18%, Russia at 26% and China at 39% - see page 22 of this document.

Oil companies are not going to move anywhere I agree. However, capital knows no borders nor do the geophysical and engineering specialists who work for Canada's oil and gas majors. These companies can and will continue to make really good money, but by investing more of their capital and expertise outside of Alberta. Albertans will be impacted by this slowing of investment.

experts in his bureaucracyYou're so funny!!

ol hoss:

I understand and admire the concept of the free enterprise system and the fully understand the fact that governments survive on profitable corporations and their employees.

Still, under our system, responsibility for necessary infrastructure lays at the feet of our elected representatives in the provincial and municipal governments.

Schools, hospitals and roads do not magically appear out of thin air.

First, it takes a recognition those things are necessary in a modern society.

The difference between the waning days of the Klein regime and Stelmach's is that the latter at least has a idea ... not only that those are fundamentally necessary expenses but a recognition that an economic sector driving that demand has at least some part in helping pay of those necessary things.

I'm all for freedom of the individual and responsibility of one's actions.

Unfettered capitalism has its limits. Somebody has to set the rules and, like it or not, having elected representative steer the ship of state is one of the primary functions of our system.

If this royalty uptick was being used for some useless Big Brother social program that diminishes individual responsibility, I would be howling with all the rest.

I agree with your last statement to a point ... it is a day late. In fact, it's about seven years late, according to auditor general Fred Dunn, who's anything but a raving marxist.

My take is Klein's inability to face up to the realities created a mess and Stelmach is trying to figure a way out off it. That's what I meant by ‘Plan.'

Don't shoot the guy trying to set things right.

Re: set you free at 12:41

Alberta's royalty regime was the lowest of any jurisdiction in the WORLD Could you please provide a reference to back up that statement? Before Blair's tenure in Britain the royalties were 0%. Now granted, the Brits had other means of taxing the production in order to get their pound of flesh. Oil and gas economics are a very complex specialty. Royalties are but one piece of the picture; there are bonus' and leases to be paid and taxes at every level of government (federal, provincial and municipal districts for us). At the end of the day what matters is return on investment. The CAPP review of the royalty report quotes a study done by J.S Herold showing Canada in dead last place at a 12% rate of return on investment when compared internationally - U.S at 15%, Norway/England North Sea at 18%, Russia at 26% and China at 39% - see page 22 of this document http://www.capp.ca/raw.asp?x=1&e=PDF&dt=NTV&dn=127546.

Oil companies are not going to move anywhere I agree. However, capital knows no borders nor do the geophysical and engineering specialists who work for Canada's oil and gas majors. These companies can and will continue to make really good money, but by investing more of their capital and expertise outside of Alberta. Albertans will be impacted by this slowing of investment.

experts in his bureaucracy You’re so funny!!

When the Alberta oilpatch starts to slow down, leftists will be overjoyed while everyone else will correctly blame Stelmach.

Since Stelmach clearly isn't smart enough to come up with a REASON for taxing one specific(and very important)industry an extra 1.4 billion, every leftist union and socialist organization in Alberta will now have their hands out, empowered to drain even more taxpayer money from the economy. Not to even mention the Federal government...

I thank Joe B. and Richard Saunders for their enthusiastic support. ~:D

For those of you with an eye to the market and a brain to use in your own self preservation, I propose the following: watch the stock price of the Alberta drilling companies and trusts.

That's the first place to look for money going elsewhere. If they don't get new contracts to drill next year it will show up in their stock. If drilling stocks go up that'll tell you Uncle Phantom was wrong, and socialists stealing the profit of honest companies is a good thing.

Personally, I don't own drilling stocks and I dumped all my Alberta oil stocks in the spring. Why? Because back in the spring is when these stocks started going south. The market knows loooong before you hear it on CBC.

Any of you with an in at the Alberta Progressive Communist Party, get busy kicking Stelmach's ass please.

Richard and Knight:

I take it you have no problem Klein had no idea of how to deal with Alberta's infrastructure needs.

His words, not mine.

So, Klein breaks his contract to represent the interests of the people of Alberta (isn't that what we vote for) and that's OK?

And now it's OK to blame the guy who has an idea on how to catch up with the need for roads, schools and hospitals?

Just wondering how Klein's ignoring auditor general's recommendations since 2004 on an issue dating back to 2000 is a good thing? Fred Dunn is nowhere near a raving marxist.

The REASON infrastructure needs are increasing is because of an influx of population due to increased oilpatch activity.

Would it not make sense that if 500,000 people moved into Alberta to help, say an booming basket-weaving manufacturing sector, that would be some causal relationship? And that because of that activity, there would be a need for roads, schools and hospitals?

What would be your ideas on who should pay for the required infrastructure? Or, would all those things appear by waving a magic wand?

...those are fundamentally necessary expenses but a recognition that an economic sector driving that demand has at least some part in helping pay of those necessary things.

Seems to me it's already been paid in the form of a 7 billion dollar surplus.

ol hoss:

Then why is does the infrastructure deficit remain?

Probably because there wasn't a five year plan. heh

(You will only get that if remember the USSR)

hoss, ol buddy:

There was NO plan under Ralph. He said so himself.

Arguing that Alberta has the lowest royalty taxes is a red herring. Companies will make their decisions on the total cost of doing business. This includes the total tax take at all levels of government and the cost of labour among other things. Adding more taxes just tips the scale in favour of somewhere else

Kevin:

You figure?

Y'know, the age we live in is somewhat of a boon for medieval history buffs. There are lots of clues as to how feudal governance used to work.

Back in the day, when a group of people were making money hand over fist and riling others, a nearby knight would come in to look things over. If he found that the ones struck by fortune were becoming unruly, he'd pull out his sword and whap something that was valuable and difficult to replace. Then, he'd belt out to the onlookers, in the best synthetic lower-class voice he could muster, "What are you gonna do about it?"

Then, he'd ride off on his steed after making the person that complained feel, and look, like a big man for doing so.

That kind of retributive justice (known through a euphemism now) was swift and, when compared to today's tax rates, relatively cheap. The unintended consequences (less riches for all) were easier to trace out and foresee. The trouble was, such a simple and relatively cheap system depended upon tolerating a big fellow who had the right to bear arms, and to use then in any way he saw fit. These days were the ones when the rule of law was little more than an academicicans' dream.

If you're interested, the third Terminator movie was close to being a medieval drama in disguise. The Terminator robot was the knight, and John Connor was the protected lord. There were hints of this pattern in the second one - "speak to the hand" was a re-tool of "would you please speak to the sword?"

People that do not have INTIMATE knowledge of the oil and gas sector, should not be showing their ignorance by siding with these CROOKS! Yes I REPEAT crooks. I've been in the sector for a quarter of a century, and quite frankly, the level of competency in the upper ranks of these companies is shockingly deficient. The "old boy's club" is alive and well. Bonuses and stock options are what they live for and NONE are held to account for such niggly things like massive budget overruns that make the new royalty regime look like peanuts! Funny how the markets don't get their panties into a bunch on that news. Actually, the markets gave a huge shrug yesterday, so all those crocodile tears were perhaps wasted. It's a good thing they are in the oil business, because if they were making widgets, their incompetence would shine for all to see! Like I said before, some of these people should not be managing your local 7-11 nevermind a petro facility!
2 billion looks like a big number on paper, but when you consider there are so many companies operating here, that the share of the pie for say a Petro Canada would be in the 200 to 400 million range. Not to tough for Petro Canada to make that money back if only they would have the desire/stones to cut all the waste. It is far too easy to place the blame on the price of steel and those incompetent "union" workers. Trouble is, everyone buys into this false conclusion, while the real culprits giggle amongst themselves at the gullability of the likes of most SDA posters(for an example). Then when people like Sean post some valid input, he gets jumped on by the mob, who if I didn't know any better, are anonymous middle management from big oil. LOL! As far as the companies pulling out to head to greener pastures, go ahead....make my day! Ain't going to happen folks, and Petro Canada just proved it by stating that their 15 billion worth of projects are still a go. Can't wait for the others to anounce the same news.

Re: set you free at 2:44
Last year the Alberta government raked in $14.3 billion from royalties, fees, leases and corporate income tax from the oil and gas industry. That is more than enough to pay for all the luxurious "entitlements" enjoyed by the residents of this province. I wonder sometimes if this "infrastructure deficit" is not merely a creation of our lefty academic and media classes. I myself don't see any evidence that our roads, hospitals and schools are falling apart. On the contrary, I see evidence of the best that money can buy. Consider the quality of our roads here in Alberta to our neighbours in Sakatchewan and B.C for proof of that. In regard to the "health care deficit", there is not enough money available in the known universe to keep everyone happy in a single tier publicly funded health care system. Even if you accept publicly funded and delivered health care, then by any measure Alberta has the best services available in the country. As for education, the Fraser institute publishes it's ranking of schools annually, and year after year it shows that Alberta K-12 children are the best educated in the country.

I liked Ralph Klein, especially in his early cost cutting years. 10 years from now his tenure will be looked at as the golden era in Alberta politics. You gotta like a guy who would leave the baffle-gab of a first premier's conference to take his chances on the black-jack tables at the casino.

Richard:

Well, if there's money left over after all the infrastructure needs, they you would not be opposed to a yearly dividend cheque to Albertans?

I do have oil company shares, but my mom doesn't and she sure could use the money.

As long as the royalty structure is competitive, it should be win-win for everbody. Including Saskatchewan and B.C. Right?

We Albertans will be OK, despite the over-exaggerated fears articulated here by the Chicken Littles the past few days.

If the extra money is used to finance some hare-brained Big Brother scheme in a time of full employment, I'll be the first to scream.

Once the Alberta government gets used to the new revenue and grows their spending accordingly. What happens in a few years if the energy industry does cycle down. Governments seldom cut their spending once they are used to it they just find someone else to get it from.

Once the Alberta government gets used to the new revenue and grows their spending accordingly. What happens in a few years if the energy industry does cycle down. Governments seldom cut their spending once they are used to it they just find someone else to get it from.

set you free
I think a dividend cheque for every woman, man and child that's been a resident of this province for at least 3 years would be a magnificent idea. I don't like your idea of paying those dividends with "money left over after all the infrastructure needs" however, because, as usual the elites in government get to decide what our needs are, and therefore the dividend would always be zero. I would propose instead that a dividend be paid out of the Heritage Trust Fund each year after an allowance is made for inflation proofing the fund. With the $15 billion Heritage Trust funds properly invested in capital markets a $400 dividend could be paid out to each Albertan each year, not only for our generation but our children and their children. And the $400 would be just a start if the governemnt was forced to save a certain percentage of it's revenues from the resource industries into the Heritage Trust.

People that do not have INTIMATE knowledge of the oil and gas sector, should not be showing their ignorance by siding with these CROOKS! Yes I REPEAT crooks. I've been in the sector for a quarter of a century, and quite frankly, the level of competency in the upper ranks of these companies is shockingly deficient.

Yeah, give that money to the politicians. They'll be sure to manage it better.

Gary at 4:08
Wow, so you must have much material then to write a best seller on the follies and stupidities of Oil and Gas companies? Given your superior intelligence and abilities you must have risen to the top of the corporate pyramid, no? I know, they just don't recognize your talents, right? No matter, you should start your own oil company, it should be easy to knock off the competition given their incompetence and stupidity. Bonne chance!!

Sean can take care of himself. Heavens knows he's taken his share of whacks at my opinions in the past. :)

It makes me shake my head to hear farmers bitch about oil activity in their areas. If it weren't for the opportunity to derive secondary income by working rigs, driving oil trucks, pushing snow or bush for those big bad oil companies, a good number of farms across the oilpatch would have been forced onto the market at depressed prices by now. I can think of a few areas in this province that would give their eye teeth for the "curse" of 5 ton oil trucks driving down their municipal roads right about now.

You want your "fair share" of oil company profits? Invest in one. Go work for one.

I used to think it was a Saskatchewan thing - the "entitlement mentality." The envy and loathing of the bigger, more successful guy down the road... apparently, that cancer crawls under the skin of some Albertans as well.

Daniel M. Ryan: It's only a flesh wound.

Echoing Kate and Jema54's statements, the times they are a changing in Alberta. The political median has moved leftward in this province over the last 5 years or so and the rhetoric over this royalty issue in the last 5 weeks has really brought this home to me. I shouldn't be that surprised as many of the 700,000 people who have migrated here over the last 5-10 years come from other provinces where socialist thinking is the norm and free-enterprise economy is to be feared. Many would naturally vote for the Liberals and Dippers anyway and still more that see this as Stelmach selling out to "Big Oil", will be pushed into their arms. Real conservatives of course will be disgusted at what Stelmach has done and will put their votes with the Alliance or Wild Rose parties. Preston Manning has written about the ingredients being right for another big sea change in Alberta politics. It might be the end of the PC era but I know it won't be to anything better - the Liberal's may return to rule this province after 90 years in the wildneress. God help us!!

Joe B - 'North Sea beckons'.

Nothing quite like looking for oil in a decling field, right?

I processed seismic data from there 30 yrs ago.

Google TheOilDrum.
Lots of comments that the Arabs are in fact fudging oil field reserve numbers.
Peak oil might be here a lot quicker than anybody expects, hence the interest in the oilsands.

Also Klein should have increased the royalties BEFORE he left so the next leader wouldn't have to deal with it and couldn't be blamed for it.

But then an ex-TV reporter that blows up a 1100 bed hospital in a province that was increasing by 50,000 people/yr, can't be expected to think of all these things. Right?

Yes, it seems as though the public in Alberta is indeed moving to the left. My sympathies but at least you won't be able to complain about how Ontario is screwing up the country. You will be just as screwed up as we are. Who knows maybe when that happens all your economic immigrants will move back home.

"If it weren't for the opportunity to derive secondary income by working rigs, driving oil trucks, pushing snow or bush for those big bad oil companies, a good number of farms across the oilpatch would have been forced onto the market at depressed prices by now."

Yes, and that's because a lot of these farmers are idiots who borrow too much money and have loans they can't possibly service. I know plenty of farms where the farmers do *just fine* without the off farm jobs. Of course, they can get by with a 25 year old Massey 4WD and don't mind having to put a few parts in here and there.

"Sean can take care of himself. Heavens knows he's taken his share of whacks at my opinions in the past. :)"

I keep hoping that if I troll enough Kate will show up at my door on her Yammerhammer wearing full riding leathers to administer some "discipline". Hasn't happened yet, darn it.

I may have to try harder. :-)

Richard Saunders at October 27, 2007 4:57 PM
Wow, so you must have much material then to write a best seller on the follies and stupidities of Oil and Gas companies? Given your superior intelligence and abilities you must have risen to the top of the corporate pyramid, no? I know, they just don't recognize your talents, right? No matter, you should start your own oil company, it should be easy to knock off the competition given their incompetence and stupidity. Bonne chance!!

I could write a tome on the subject for sure, but I won't bother because Lee Iacocca has done it better with his book "Where have All The Leaders Gone?" You remember him? He took over Chrysler and turned that sinking ship right side up. But what does he know because right here on SDA we have you, Richard with all your pearls of wisdom and economic prowess to help guide us. As far as rising to the top, well, perhaps some of us are not greedy bastards that hold money and status as the be all-end all. Besides I have WAY to much INTEGRITY to run with that crowd of blowhards that take no responsibility for themselves, and are forever looking for scapegoats. I realize that I'm using quite a wide brush here as every manager is not a incompetent boob, but for their salary level, frankly, I expect better! What we have in the head offices of the big boys are bureaucracies that would make the most bloated government roles look tame by comparison, meanwhile at the facilities that generate the cashflow, the working stiff is often in the minority. But hey, that's just my take on it with the last 25 years in hindsight, and I'm sure that you are much more in tune with the goings on in the "patch" because, well, you are the man!! As far as starting my own company, I would love to. But then again, I didn't have sugardaddy Klein giving Alberta Energy to me for the bargain that Encana recieved it for, then I would have been the hero instead of that wanker Eresman.

Gary,
Sorry to interrupt your rant with some facts. When Alberta Energy was created in the mid 70's the Alberta government had a 50% stake, Alberta investors the rest. The government's share was gradually reduced during the Lougheed and Getty eras, so that by 1993 it held only 36%. In 1993, Klein, the smart guy that he was, decided that government had no role in business and sold the remaining share on the stock exchange at the value that the investor's decided to put on it. Encana didn't get created until 2002 with the merger of Alberta Energy Company and PanCanadian Petroleum.

A bit of the facts:

"Like much of Lougheed's legacy, however, the benefits of AEC for Alberta were short-lived once Ralph Klein became premier. In an effort to make the government's books look good for his first budget as premier, in 1993 the province sold its remaining 25 million shares in AEC at the bargain basement price of $19 a piece. No assessment was made of the true value of infrastructure, land leases and equipment (which had all been paid for by Albertans) controlled by AEC at the time. The extent of the giveaway became crystal clear as the share price more than doubled over the next five years. By the time of the merger with PanCanadian, AEC shares were trading at close to $62 each--more than triple what Albertans received for them."

I especially like the part of NO ASSESSMENT.
Great long term vision there Ralphie! That's what happens when you have a guy that "doesn't give a tinkers damn" Anyhoo, carry on with your admiration of the oil pirates!

Gary
Looks like your source for that quote is www.straightgoods.ca. I trust you understand that Ricardo Acuna, the author of the article you quote, is the executive director of the Parkland Institute and that that organization is funded by the labour and public service unions and gives the professors in the Social Studies departments at the UofA and UofC a soap-box to spout their socialist ideas from. I don't deny them to right to do so but given the source one has to question such statements as "the province sold its remaining 25 million shares in AEC at the bargain basement price of $19 a piece". The market decides the true value of the company and not the Social Studies types at the University of Calgary.

What do you suppose they spend their time thinking and writing about at the Department of Sociology at the University of Calgary, you might ask? Well front and centre on their web page (http://www.soci.ucalgary.ca) is this intriguing research paper about "Oil Policy in Venezuela: The Politics of Institutional Change". Don't know what the author actually discovered in his research, but he had this to say elsewhere (http://www.ffwdweekly.com/Issues/2007/0301/view.htm) "Maybe Alberta could use a man like Hugo Chavez." And no, he was being serious.

Not surprising the shares went up after being put into private hands. Crown Corps are always dogs.

What I can't figure out is why someone as smart as Sean would be so stupid as to buy a house next to a highway and then complain about noise , etc.

Horny Toad

I don't know why some people are down on Ralph Klein, unless, of course, they're from back east - then it would be understandable: envy. Ole Ralphie brought Alberta to where it is today, which is a bloody good position.

I think it is important to look at who has the most leverage - the oil companies or Stelmach. I'd say the oil companies because Stelmach would be securing himself a place in the unemployment line if he screwed things for Albertans; I'd even venture to say he may even have to change his whole identity and move to Siberia or something.

Sean, I agree that it doesn't make sense to be sending monies to Ottawa to spread to the have-not provinces when school text books are ratty and were written in the Dark Ages, and we have to rent them to boot - where exactly does that book rental money go anyhow; it sure doesn't go to purchasing new editions. I also agree that the state of our medical services is past bazaar.

It would be nice if Stelmach told us where the increase in royalties would be put to good use for Albertans, or maybe he hasn't figured that out yet. I for one would have already thought Highway 63 would have been doubled somewhere down the line already, but nope - just another winter ahead of us with vehicles sliding across the center line into big-ass trucks.

I can't stand all the idiots on this thread that have nothing good to say about Ralph Klein's legacy. I guess you have to live in Alberta to appreciate it or know anything about it...

"What I can't figure out is why someone as smart as Sean would be so stupid as to buy a house next to a highway and then complain about noise , etc."

I'm not complaining about the noise. I'm complaining about dangerous driving and slipshod safety practices. There's no excuse for driving a fully loaded rig in excess of 140 kph. Or passing when driving up a hill and there's a solid line. Or driving down the road with large pieces of metal unsecured on the back of your picker truck so they can bounce off and destroy the undercarriages of the cars behind you.

The noise doesn't bother me -- I can, and do sleep through jake brakes every night. I find the direct highway access is useful for my small business, so I'm happy for it.

If U forget history, you are doomed to repeat it.

Big organisations like govt and giant companies both make their share of winners And bloopers. Look at the big co's top men who are in jail in the us for big big transgressions. Also govt makes mistakes.

But Bennett in B.C. as premier built our modern highway system, he built what many think was the best ferry system in the world [latterly ruined by Clark, the NDP premier spending 700 million on 3 ferries that wouldn't work. Then Bennet built BC Power, the big dams to generate, and then in his spare time built a new university on time aned below budget. Frankly, after 60 years studying markets I don't know any businessman in Canada who had more foresight, fairness, toughness and energy.Yes he used to be a small town hardware merchant but lets not denigrate his performance.

Lots of big talk here about the oil business pulling up stakes. Lets see what the markets say in a few weeks apart from following the indices.
I don't think so and think I will buy more Imperial.

Remember Flaherty changed the income trust rules and everybody was going to jump out the window. We didn't see them do it however and Flaherty did the right thing for Canada.

The people own the resources, not the co's nor the politicians. The people in BC let the Govt allow big timber to cut newrly all the 900 year old trees, ruin most salmon spawning streams, then pull out and run. For most of those yers the co's didn't even pay taxes, and some-Skeena cellulose, Never. But they cut down a few Switzerlands and gave a few jobs. for what?

Canada and BC gave Alcan special deals all over the place to become strongly established. Now that the future is rosy, a big European just bought it out. Ditto for two big steel companies. Oh well, one is left for Canadians.
International Nickel is now gone, with the gigantic Voisey bay deposit in Labrador. Oh yeh, I forgot, we get to dig it up.

Alberta is going to be awash in people and they ain't going to be like present day albertans I assure you. You will bugger up Alberta like BC has buggared up our coast. My property is worth 21/2 million. Sure I like that but its stupid and there is no way a young family from Sask or Alberta can buy a house arround here, and that is not good.

The world is drowning in people, and albertans are yahooing all over the place cause they are having another 300-500, 000 people move in to share Banff, the lakes, the roads, AND THE BIGGER PROVINCIAL TREASURY.

Sean does know what the future is going to be.

"I can't stand all the idiots on this thread that have nothing good to say about Ralph Klein's legacy."

You're kidding, right? He was only useful for the first couple of years and after that he mostly turned into a damned Liberal. Every time the federal government stepped onto our turf you could always count on Ralphie to roll on his back and let them rub his tummy (after a bit of hissing and spitting for the press).

Spends like a Liberal, must be a Liberal.

Glass half empty.

"...that would give their eye teeth for the "curse" of 5 ton oil trucks..."

I think you aptly put it Kate. Many will sell your soul for the almighty buck.

Only problem is your kids won't be able to cash in on it.

Watch how cancer will start appearing in rural Alberta kids due to ground water pollution from, the curse.

Stelmach did the right thing if anything he should have went for the full 2B.
I am not a lefty, Heck I'm more to the right than most of the talkers here by a hop, skip and a jump. I don't agree with big governent, But I do agree that some government is necessary.
The oil is within the confines of Alberta and therefore it belongs to Albertans and who better than the Alberta government to manage those petroleum resources? They have the right to charge whatever they like on behalf of Albertans, that said if they charge to much they kill the industry, just the way things are, thats reality!
But they aren't charging too much for current oil prices not by a long shot! IF you think so, go back to remedial math!
I heard numbers like 973 million dollars profit for Encana for one quarter. And it is just one of many companies. H'mm added all up 2B is just a drop in the bucket it's nothing won't even be noticed.
I get a kick out of hearing the riggers and others who own drilling equipment say this is whats going to kill their Jobs, ect ..poor house. Do you guys like not own a TV? Have you guys tried to keep up with what's going down south of us at all? Liquidity crisis anyone? Bank of Canada pumping in billions, OOH yah everythings alll right, uh huh! get real.
The Stelmach decision is all about politics. Its about who runs Alberta, the oil companies or the government led by Stelmach. See the old boys club, very very powerful, just got slapped on the nose by those they considered their pawns. Pretty much the government was that, and in some cases it was to the benefit of Alberta. But in this case not, and Eddie actually showed for once that he actually has some backbone, what us real conservatives felt he might not have!
Any way the oil companies make most of the profit and generally are the workhorse of the canadian economy, employing lots of people like JT and JOE and JOE ect. You guys have to realize you are just oil company pawns in much larger chess game. Sure they'll give you less work, lay you off, blaiming it on stelmach all the way? They'll manipulate you to vote for whom they want trying to bring him down to install their own puppet! and when their done with you you'll just be their refuse! Expect to see political games played with your lives, to the maximum effect for the oil companies!

In regards to another note By Alberta Girl, That oil companies need your approval to come drill on your land. That's pure drivel, They can get permission from a commission above pretty much expropriate the place they want to drill and do so. There is nothing you can do unless you are a very good lawyer yourself or have millions of dollars to throw around in legal fees.

Just for reference:

http://www.alive.com/247a1a2.php?subject_bread_cramb=161

Allan Johnstone is a 69-year-old retired oilfield technologist. After years of field research into the negative effect of gas flaring and venting, he retired from the industry to devote his life to helping others realize the deadly effects associated with these criminally toxic practices.

Johnstone was instrumental in bringing many of the dangers associated with oil and gas refining to the public’s attention during the Alliance Pipeline hearings conducted by the National Energy Board of Canada in 1997 and 1998. Unfortunately, the revelations of this massive document never reached the light of day

Stelmach did the right thing if anything he should have went for the full 2B.
I am not a lefty, Heck I'm more to the right than most of the talkers here by a hop, skip and a jump. I don't agree with big governent, But I do agree that some government is necessary.
The oil is within the confines of Alberta and therefore it belongs to Albertans and who better than the Alberta government to manage those petroleum resources? They have the right to charge whatever they like on behalf of Albertans, that said if they charge to much they kill the industry, just the way things are, thats reality!
But they aren't charging too much for current oil prices not by a long shot! IF you think so, go back to remedial math!
I heard numbers like 973 million dollars profit for Encana for one quarter. And it is just one of many companies. H'mm added all up 2B is just a drop in the bucket it's nothing won't even be noticed.
I get a kick out of hearing the riggers and others who own drilling equipment say this is whats going to kill their Jobs, ect ..poor house. Do you guys like not own a TV? Have you guys tried to keep up with what's going down south of us at all? Liquidity crisis anyone? Bank of Canada pumping in billions, OOH yah everythings alll right, uh huh! get real.
The Stelmach decision is all about politics. Its about who runs Alberta, the oil companies or the government led by Stelmach. See the old boys club, very very powerful, just got slapped on the nose by those they considered their pawns. Pretty much the government was that, and in some cases it was to the benefit of Alberta. But in this case not, and Eddie actually showed for once that he actually has some backbone, what us real conservatives felt he might not have!
Any way the oil companies make most of the profit and generally are the workhorse of the canadian economy, employing lots of people like JT and JOE and JOE ect. You guys have to realize you are just oil company pawns in much larger chess game. Sure they'll give you less work, lay you off, blaiming it on stelmach all the way? They'll manipulate you to vote for whom they want trying to bring him down to install their own puppet! and when their done with you you'll just be their refuse! Expect to see political games played with your lives, to the maximum effect for the oil companies!

In regards to another note By Alberta Girl, That oil companies need your approval to come drill on your land. That's pure drivel, They can get permission from a commission above pretty much expropriate the place they want to drill and do so. There is nothing you can do unless you are a very good lawyer yourself or have millions of dollars to throw around in legal fees.

Killing Free Enterprise even on it's deathbed!

Thanks a million Mr. Mugabe: Zimbabwe on the brink of economic meltdown

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/live/live.html?in_article_id=489901&in_page_id=1889

Jared no one including you has answered the one question I raised. What will the Gvt of AB do with the extra 1.4 Billion per year? They already have more money than they know what to do with and due to labour shortages etc can only spend so much on infrastucture unless of course we want run away inflation. BTW I have never worked for an oil company and have no particular love for oil companies. I simply remember the last time the boom went bust and the thousands of people who lost jobs houses cars not to mention marriages and lives. When Gvt gets greedy companies can not make money (which btw is their reason for being) and shut down or leave the jurisdiction and the little guy who works for the company gets laid off. What bothers me most about those calling for greater revenue for the Gvt is the fact that they don't care about the guy or gal going to lose their job because the people think they need their "fair share." Some fairness that is. The Gvt gets more money that the people never see and the little guy loses his job. I ask you the question is that fair or just stupid?

Sorry Joe you are correct no one touched that including me.
The truth is your skepticism about the government is spot on in my opinion, they will doubtlessly waste the money, throwing more into the blackhole of healthcare on some pet project that we can't afford down the road.
Maybe we'll get lucky and someone will increase the heritage trust fund to 100 billion so that when bad times come interest from investments in other places can fund the province. or give flexability to invest in new things, but few in government think that far ahead.
Your right the money will get probably pissed away but in the off chance that they might do something worthwhile with it, and since they represent the consensus of Albertans, it is theirs to take. And the amount their taking is not what will kill the industry.
See I'm just as skeptical of government as you, But the price to the right to harvest Albertan resources is theirs to set whether they need the money or not.
I don't consider this the same as taxing individual Albertans in that case they had better have a good reason!

Joe I agree with you entirely on the point of greedy government killing industry, and screwing us all over, generally seems to be a reoccurring theme. But hopefully such moves like this keep the pinko commies and socialist from ever attaining real power. The huge (obscene) profits of a select group, when the large majority of the population has nothing has a history of spawning leftist revolutions, that generally push society backward. Some measures are necessary to prevent this from occurring. Never underestimate the Pinko's!

Oh hi, it's me again, Vitruvius. Can I just say that, now that I've caught up with this thread, and after having made some early contributions hereto, it brings me great satisfaction to read my fellow citizens hashing out contentious issues like this. Most people have raised relevant points, and the gratuitous name-calling has been kept to a minimum.

Plato said: The price that good men pay for doing nothing is to be ruled by evil men. Thanks, Kate, for providing one of the channels by which we can do something, in this case, carrying on the public debate relatively free of the paid shysters.

But be aware. The problem remains that in any big-ticket important issue there are going to be paid shysters on both sides, including on your side. Navigating those hurdles is up to us, my fellow citizens.

"He was only useful for the first couple of years and after that he mostly turned into a damned Liberal."
He left Alberta debt-free, with low taxes and a powerful energy industry. Where are any other Liberals that act like this?

Has anyone else noticed many of the other brainwaves here trying to take a cheap nonsensical shot at Klein, are doing so by complaining about the problems a massively growing economy creates???
"I take it you have no problem Klein had no idea of how to deal with Alberta's infrastructure needs."

I don't consider this the same as taxing individual Albertans in that case they had better have a good reason!

The effect of slowing the economy is the same as a tax. This is worse than a tax if it slows exploration that would result in jobs and new businesses for the next generation.

The bottom line is now there's 1.4 billion less to invest. With that 1.4 billion add in the additional billions that could be leveraged with that 1.4 billion. 1.4 billion turns into several billions of lost investment opportunity.

Will the additional royalties make up for that?

Okay, an exhaustive read of all posts. I will use two examples I deem relavent to this topic. Lefties are cocksure that "BigOil" wont pack up and go elsewhere. In 2003 the Saputo Dairy in Calgary was negotiating with their "Union" , they told the members that thier offer was all they could afford. The Union heads told thier members, The company has lots of money and we are going after it. Saputo told the union negotiaters that if their demands were not scaled back they would close the doors. Of course the Union balked at that threat. Well imagine thier surprize when that is exactly what happened. Luckily for the senior union employees, they were offered the chance to move to Edmonton, the rest just lost thier 22 dollar jobs.
More recently Molsons in Edmonton told their Union what they could afford. Guess what, the Uniion called their bluff, and lo and behold they closed the Edmonton brewery. I liken this to the lefties posting here. You think the Oil companies wont take their investment $$ elswhere ? Better think again. To quote a Lieberal MP. " I am entitled to my entitlements" Makes me sad that the boom here is bringing lefties here in droves.
What will the Gov do with an extra 1.4 bill thay couldnt already do with 8 billion ? Line thier own pockets, share with the big government lovers ? I am sure nothing will change as far as benifets to average Albertans. Oh wait maybe the extra 1.4 billion will go to free housing for those who are waiting with their hands out. Hope I am wrong.

Lefties are cocksure that "BigOil" wont pack up and go elsewhere.

Even if "BigOil" doesn't pack up and move, lefties have given the competitive advantage to "BigOil" over juniour homegrown companies. "BigOil" has a wider margin to work with.

Unintended consequences.

With any luck the gubbermint wont go into business, remember Novatel?
I too am afraid of socialists coming to Alberta and changing the landscape.
Capitalism creates wealth,socialism desposes of it.

...oil is a blessing and a curse.

Alberta rolled in the blessing part now for many years, but me thinks it is now changing to the cursed part.

Maybe Saskatchewan can cash in on the blessed part before housing prices and commodities go up.

So, 147 posts and I have yet to see one that explains how stealing money is good, or how the
Alberta government is going to spend that money on something better than the people they stole it from would have.

Just sayin'.

Stelmach is a weak and feckless premier who saw gain in pandering to the particular constituency of people who are charmed by phrases like "The money belongs to Albertans, not the Oil Companies."

A lot of otherwise astute commenters here who support Stelmach's political "strategy" appear not to understand that the increased royalty take won't be going to "Albertans" per se but to a government already awash in massive surpluses.

There are three groups affected by Stelmach's decision to tear up a contract: Big oil, the Alberta government, and the small-scale producers and reclaimers.

Everybody knows that the big oil companies and their shareholders will continue to do just fine. The Alberta government will still be awash in cash, they'll just have more of it now. It's those who work in the oilpatch outside of Fort MacMurray -- the deep-gas drillers, the mom-and-pop businesses out there reclaiming dormant wells, small seismic companies, etc., and the largely rural local businesses that rely on these are the one's who'll potentially suffer the effects of Stelmach's decision to tear up a contract in a -- probably (unfortunately) successful -- attempt to change the public's perception of him.

If you flesh in the elisions of a few commenters here, the small-scale workers across the province aren't the "people of Alberta"; rather, the government who is "The people of Alberta." Apparently. Because that's where the increased revenue is going.

As long as everyone's clear on that.

Phantom: check out the Alberta Teachers Association (ATA) website and related issues. The Alberta government negociated generous pension contributions in exchange for a ten year no strike agreement. Their pension enjoys a $6 BILLION shortfall currently 2007, so I'm guessing Eddie has already "spent" his "new found money" by topping up the ATA pension shortfall. Who's next? I'm betting that there are a few more ugly things hiding under a rock in Alberta, that have yet to surface, that will more than speak for ANY new royalty money collected for quite some time. Taxpayers or the "owners" of Alberta's resources will wait a long time before they ever see dime one of this royalty money.

Well said EBD.

Niel Thompson 0 the trees in B.C., of which you speak, were chopped when the Dippers were in power (big timber union people vote Dipper), the salmon were sold out to the Indians for PC, the ferries were fine until the Dippers. B.C. sold out to the Dippers for cheap car insurance the first time, second time under Vandersalm - the BEST Premier B.C. ever had, it was the Abortion issue - he was against gov't paying for the murder of unborn babies - Vandersalm had seen enough murder in Holland, as a child when the Nazis were murdering born and unborn people. It is always good to blame the right people for unworthy deeds, IMO.
Any time the gument announces that it is 'here to help' , the average person knows there is something stinking to high heaven! Beware.

Joe, it is not proven and many think unlikely, that more of the new tax means fewer jobs. If tax is too onerous, yes it will cut jobs, .Many believe the new royalty tax is not onerous.
If a family inherited a nice chunk of money what would it do with it? It could squander it, everybody do the lottery terminal bit, buy a bunch of fast cars and take up snorting coke. They could instead send their kids to college, put in a nice addition to their house, take a nice holiday, part of it educational, and they could give to their favorite charity.
A govt can squander money, It can also fix roads, put up art galleries, museums, colleges and universities. It can make more parks, set aside endangered habitat, put MRI machines in all the hospitals and not close any more. It can put in a road, not the dirt trail, for gods sake between writing on stone and the cypress hills without making a tourist drive up to no. 1, It can put in housing for the street people, put in more detox beds, and so on.
The main good is to increase peoples pleasure, over the longest time for the most people. Govt's can help do this by providing amenities not open to the individual. Thank God the govt had extra tax dollars when they set aside Banff. What a loss if they hadn't.
Too many people think all Canada should do is open the floodgates to any and all immigrants and exploit any and all resources to the very end to give a temporary job-until the resource runs out. We have done it with the big trees, the cod and now the salmon, all in the name of giving a job. Cut out immigration. The world is drowning in people. Vancouver is one third Chinese. Is that spreading the wealth, they already have more people than any one else and now we are finacing their new growth here. Why not give some other race a chance. Whats so good about unsustainable growth and growth that lowers quality of life for the existing citizens. Only those with guilt about having it so good want to destroy the individual Canadians wonderful standard of life in the name of "bigness and population growth"

So, Neil, your point is.......? population control? Huh?

Neil, still not getting where the stealing is ok, still not getting where a government employee is better fixed to spend my money than I am.

Your "wonderful standard of life" is coming out of the pockets of strangers, which is both unsustainable and immoral. That'd be the stealing part, y'know.

You are in a hole. Stop digging.

Canada is one of 5 countries with "OPEN" immigration. We are doing our damndest to increase immigration. To stop artificially building UP population is not controlling it.
We don't require them to know our language, have a trade, money and if they have a sponsor, they don't have to support them.
Alberta owns the oil sands. I don't consider it stealing if they want a higher royalty. It is not coming out of the pocket of any albertan. I do believe in contracts and do not know enough to comment on the morality of the new levy. But if anyone drives too tough a bargain in a deal it usually backfires and in the current setup NO ONE including the govt. or the co's forsaw this incredible jump in prices. The problem is all the benefits went one way. For Alta to get one dollar royalty at hundred a barrel oil vs oil cos making probably 80 plus dollars gross profit is not a square deal. Too bad the negotiators did not plan for this eventuality but we - humans- never do just like Canada is not planning what to do with our exploding population when the boom ends. They say the new economy will be based on technology. Well Canada, rots of ruck when most new immigrants are illiterate even in their own country.Immigration , when open, will only stop when Canada becomes as poor, as polluted, as benefitless, as the emigrating countries.

I don't know of any case where government has increased it's take and not damaged the economy. In some cases increasing government take has so injured the economy that it actually receives less in taxation revenues. These were the economic lessons learned painfully in many Western countries during the 80's. Jurisdictions that decreased the rate of taxation actually took in more revenue and produced thriving economies to boot. I mean, look at Ireland for the love of Peatrick. For most of the 20th century it was the beggarly urchin of Europe. Then the government decided to reduce their corporate tax to 12%. It actually dramatically increased it's corporate tax revenues, to the extent that Ireland now captures 13% of all taxes from corporate sources, compared to 8% in the U.K. and 7% in France. And the economy grew so much that Ireland now has the second largest GDP per capita in the world.

We are not talking here about the govt increasing its take out of the available pot,or of any albertans pocket, they are increasing the levy on the pot yet to come out of the ground in payment for ground owned by albertans. That money is either going into Albertas treasury or shareholders dividends {or, if retained, to build up shareholder equity} Take your pick.
Do you have to have all the other leases taken up and start extracting right now? Why not take a breather while you build some infrastructure, your roads, bridges, hospitals, waterworks, sewersystems and universities are all inadequate right now. You have had more development in 15 years than in the entire history of the province before, what the hell is the hurry to speed up development from here? Hey, this is just my opinion and I have known to be wrong. But in my eighty some years I have also known to be right a few very important times

The frame of reference of old men is on comfort, not production.

Neil said: "Why not take a breather while you build some infrastructure, your roads, bridges, hospitals, waterworks, sewersystems and universities are all inadequate right now."

Because what you are talking about is called "central planning" Neil. It doesn't work. It fails every time it is tried. It is a stupid, Marxist idea and its killed probably 20 million people in China alone.

Here's a friggin' revolutionary idea for you. Why not admit that the mineral rights of a piece of land belong to the OWNER of the land, not "The People Of Alberta" which is another dumbass Marxist concept.

If the province or the crown owns it, great! Let them charge the frickin' moon and the stars, see how much they sell. Meanwhile people keep their money, and BUY the services they want from the open market. The open market will be beating the door down to get in and sell to them.

And if Big Oil wants a road to Ft. Mac, maybe they could damn well pony up for it. Sword cuts both ways Neil. Nothing in life comes for free except pain. That they give away.