Read the whole thing on Steyn's website.

Disclosure: When my dad left us, I was eight years old.

My mom kept us alive by working night and day in a big garden, then taking on odd babysitting jobs.

We grew up on welfare and would be considered truly poor.

One pre-Christmas period, some charitable group arrived at our door and left a package of food.

I'll always remember that tin of canned ham that sat in a cupboard until after the day I left home more than a decade later.

People may be economically poor, but that does not mean they have to give up their dignity.

You're right. In Canada, today there were a precious few poor. We had an outhouse, to be sure.

Maybe it's unfair and maybe it's because I grew up to be economically well-off despite my background but ... I really have little sympathy for those who find themselves believing freedom means they are free to indulge in self-destructive behaviour.

Of course, self-destructive behaviours are totally allowed by the secular progressives we have on our benches and in our legislatures.

If Jesus said "blessed are the cruel and mean", Shaidle and her pal will go straight to heaven.

kathy

that is a brilliant piece

I'd pay to watch the faces of the lefties as they read it

Lloyd:

There's nothing mean about telling the truth.

Nice try, though.

Excellent! Encore! Encore! I hope you don't mind if I send this link to a half dozen or so of my misguided lefty friends.... you know, the ones already sporting "Kerry/Edwards" and "Hillary '08" stickers on their car bumpers. And yes, I will be present to see those expressions .

kathy- excellent post. Thanks for telling the truth.

Poverty has, under socialism, transformed into a big and lucrative parasite industry. It is lucrative for the bureaucrats, the social workers, the activists, who all receive their comfortable middle class income from the financial resources from the government (taxpayer) and private funds (same person as the taxpayer).

These funds are supposed to be for the welfare of 'the impoverished', but the actual amount left over - after those comfortable salaries, the benefits, the offices and equipment, the expenses etc - is only a small, small percentage.

Like unions, the poverty industry is, as I said, a parasitic leech on the population, feeding on emotions rather than reason, manipulating emotions of Guilt and Sin into the population - to make their govt/them, hand over money, money, money - which these leeches use primarily for themselves.

As for poverty - that's an extremely difficult definition. I've known people on welfare because they refuse to work unless it's 'their perfect job' and, who give their child $5.00 for 'school lunch' at Macdonalds. That's $25.00 a week - rather than using that money for three week's worth of packing those lunches themselves (bread, apples, cheese, carrots, drink).
People whose furniture consists of second hand, and orange crates etc - and don't consider themselves requiring welfare.

So- I'm very sceptical about the Poverty Industry. It gets larger and larger, and the middle class leeches living off it, get larger and larger. After a while, one has to call the whole thing - a scam.

"In ten years the Christian Left will hold another conference. They'll call it 'Where Did We Go Wrong?'"

That's a sweet thought, Kathy, but doesn't being lib-left mean never having to say you're sorry?

I just kept nodding my head. Yes! Yes! Yes! Tough love is what's needed, letting people know that there's a line in the sand that you can't cross. We, basically, have no line anymore and "lifestyle choices," no matter how stupid or destructive, are what our so-called leaders and therapeutic community stress are necessary.

What's necessary is responsibility and accountability and not expecting others to work hard for your entitlements.

I'll vote for any politician who doesn't bow to the poverty agenda which, as Kathy says, is a crock. It's a whole industry living off those of us who work hard and aren't looking for handouts.

A certain wag asked a very important question it went along the lines of "Why do I have to take a pee test before I can go to work but the person on welfare doesn't have to take the same test"?

I think it was Ayn Rand who pointed out that if one judges one's self-worth by the amount of public altruism one engages in - saving the poor with someone else's money - then it is integral to that person's existence that there always be poor people. Consequently, those in poverty who pull themselves out with sheer hard work and maybe a hand up, are nowhere near as valuable as those at sixteen who pop out another generation of future poor kids to keep the cycle going.

Poor is relative. For many of the years that we raised our children, my wife and I were below one poverty line or another and never considered ourselves poor - and our kids did not either.

I think it was Ayn Rand who pointed out that if one judges one's self-worth by the amount of public altruism one engages in - saving the poor with someone else's money - then it is integral to that person's existence that there always be poor people.

It may well have been Ayn Rand who attempted to 'point this out.'

Such a combination of false assumptions and non sequiturs is just about what one would expect from Ayn Rand.

Kathy you sell yourself short, ya pun intended ;)

Anyone seen my lotion?

Hey, "People Are Stupid" as a Big Idea works for me. Run with it.

It seems to me that many people think that all or most of the poor people in Canada are just lazy people that won't work.

This isn't true. There are many people that are very poor, that fall through the cracks of societies safety net. Many people with real mental health issues or other disabilities live on the streets. This group of people don't have the ability to support themselves and need government assistance. But these problems aren't glamorous.

As for leftist Christians, many believe that working with government to help out the less fortunate is a bigger help then doing nothing. Seeing that Lorne Calvert was a United Church minister and is now working in government.

It is articles like these that show the real disconnect between Liberal and Conservative Christians in solving real social issues like mental health and the problems associated with it. It seems the group of Conservative Christians would rather blame an shame these people. Instead of trying to get them to a point where they can contribute to society.

Stephen, you don't understand Ayn Rand. She is for smart people, don't try to read her books. I think Nsiomi Klein has something out right now that would be for the liks of you.

Kathy ... Congrats. Having Mark Stein read and compliment is you like having Tiger Woods ask you for a golf lesson. Keep up the great work.

There's a bunch of people in this world who are lazy and think the world owes them something just for being born. And then there are a bunch of people who are good at heart and want to do good, but circumstances have made it harder than they can manage. It's a shame when people give up trying to differentiate between the two. Frankly, I've got friends who, from time to time, have needed a hand to either stay steady in their position, or needed a temporary hand, and I've never hesistated. I'm sure you'd all be the same. But if we hadn't been there, maybe they'd have needed a net, a social net, and I would want those people without good friends there to catch them, to know that falling from time to time is ok.

I also accept that in order to do that, be the kinda society that catches those that fall, that it's going to also mean we catch people who just don't care to stand.

For my part, I'm ok with paying $100 a year taxes to help these people out. But maybe that's because I assume that at least $30 of that is going to people who need it. And for me, to save me the time and trouble of deciding who needs that $30 dollars, wasting $70 is ok. Plus, hell, if some asshole wants nothing in this life but a cup of soup and a bed to sleep in at night, I'm ok with that too.

Frankly, it's makes me proud to think that as a Canadian, every Canadian sleeps and eats better than the average dog. Even if it costs me a little more.

Now the sentate... god damn... don't get me started on those worthless shits. I wish they'd start eating in the soup kitchens.

The guilty party, so far as keeping poor people in the state they are in, is the poverty industry and the demagogues (socialists), these are the groups that in actual fact make comfortable living by keeping the poor, poor.
If one of them tells some poor soul, here is some bread today, tomorrow, get yourself a job and stop bothering me. If the poor soul decides to do exactly that, the do gooder would be out of pretension of superiority and possibly out of a well paying job. Now we can’t have that.
For the person with lack of comprehension, the above example is an analogy, I know there are enough poor, the trouble is, they are kept in their misery by those that pretend to care about their well being.
About every one knows somebody that is ripping off the system (and the people that pay for it) with the support of the poverty industry.
This is unfortunate in a country that in many areas can’t get enough workers in just about every category, even in those well paying positions.
I suppose it is easier for the present and advantageous for the future to drug the kids in schools, make them feel that they are hard done by, instead teaching them that there is no free lunch.
As for those here that throw bombs full of nothingness, like the comment at October 8, 2007 9:08 PM, perhaps it would be better to use your energy helping the poor right now, instead of talking into the wind, otherwise you lost your case.

Arthur is comfortable with giving money away. Good for you, you want to give money away, go ahead knock yourself out, don’t bloody talk about taxes.

For my part, I'm ok with paying $100 a year taxes to help these people out. But maybe that's because I assume that at least $30 of that is going to people who need it. And for me, to save me the time and trouble of deciding who needs that $30 dollars, wasting $70 is ok. Plus, hell, if some asshole wants nothing in this life but a cup of soup and a bed to sleep in at night, I'm ok with that too.

Arthur, your heart is in the right place but this is a horrible attitude. Your percentage is about the same as here in the US; 70 cents on the dollar is wasted. You cannot accept such jaw dropping inefficiency which is nothing short of criminal. Our political jackals must be held accountable and they must spend our money wisely and efficiently and not waste it on legions of administrators and other nonsense. Complacency will breed further corruption and rot.

NY has a massive welfare state and the financial drain was so extensive that the city was going to have the welfare recipients work for 8 hours a month, not week or a day but a month. The welfare ingrates became apoplectic and the race pimps came running out of their mansions to decry the evil mean city for demanding a little labor for the blank check.

Our societies are decaying before our eyes.

Most of today's secular progressives do not appreciate that the charity work they claim as their own invention was being done in Christian churches for millenia.

You know, visiting leper colonies and such, the people who were shunned by the rest of society.

Compassion is the duty of a human being with traditional values, not a function of a bloodsucking state.

"Are there no prisons? Are there no workhouses?"

The clerk, in letting Scrooge's nephew out, had let two other people in. They were portly gentlemen, pleasant to behold, and now stood, with their hats off, in Scrooge's office. They had books and papers in their hands, and bowed to him.

'Scrooge and Marley's, I believe,' said one of the gentlemen, referring to his list. 'Have I the pleasure of addressing Mr Scrooge, or Mr Marley?'

'Mr Marley has been dead these seven years,' Scrooge replied. 'He died seven years ago, this very night.'

'We have no doubt his liberality is well represented by his surviving partner,' said the gentleman, presenting his credentials.

'It certainly was, for they had been two kindred spirits. At the ominous word liberality, Scrooge frowned, and shook his head, and handed the credentials back.

'They are. Still,' returned the gentleman,' I wish I could say they were not.'

'The Treadmill and the Poor Law are in full vigour, then?' said Scrooge.

'At this festive season of the year, Mr Scrooge,' said the gentleman, taking up a pen, 'it is more than usually desirable that we should make some slight provision for the Poor and destitute, who suffer greatly at the present time. Many thousands are in want of common necessaries; hundreds of thousands are in want of common comforts, sir.'

'Are there no prisons?"

'Plenty of prisons,' said the gentleman, laying down the pen again.
'And the Union workhouses.' demanded Scrooge. 'Are they still in operation?'

'Both very busy, sir.'

'Oh. I was afraid, from what you said at first, that something had occurred to stop them in their useful course,' said Scrooge. 'I'm very glad to hear it.'

'Under the impression that they scarcely furnish Christian cheer of mind or body to the multitude,' returned the gentleman, 'a few of us are endeavouring to raise a fund to buy the Poor some meat and drink, and means of warmth. We choose this time, because it is a time, of all others, when Want is keenly felt, and Abundance rejoices. What shall I put you down for?'

'Nothing!' Scrooge replied.

'You wish to be anonymous?'

'I wish to be left alone,' said Scrooge. 'Since you ask me what I wish, gentlemen, that is my answer. I don't make merry myself at Christmas and I can't afford to make idle people merry. I help to support the establishments I have mentioned-they cost enough; and those who are badly off must go there.'

'Many can't go there; and many would rather die.'

'If they would rather die,' said Scrooge, 'they had better do it, and decrease the surplus population."

---from A Christmas Carol by Charles Dickens

Somethings never change, right Kathy?

lberia Are you presenting a work of fiction as fact? LOL
I see many of today's "less fortunate" hanging around the "mustard seed". Most are white, most are young and most look very well fed indeed!

The plea of the leftist "It isn't his/her fault that she/he ran away from home/dropped out/used drugs/alcohol/got pregnant/fought with his/her family/ robbed/stole/murdered/committed arson/rape/vandalism. Society is to blame! He/she was born poor and so must remain poor!

In this country, Canada, we all enjoy the same benefits. Abusive family? Mental health issues? You have but to say the word and a hundred social service workers will be beating a path to your door!

Somewhere along the line people make their own choices! Indeed if we could only get rid of the parasites, that infect the system, there would be more than enough to provide for the truly unfortunate, for the truly needy!

Scrooge was a fictional character, but there seems to be no shortage of real people (or at least SDA commentators) who share his philosophy. Anyway, I'm still looking in the bible trying to find where Jesus said "I'm alright, so screw you." Perhaps some self proclaimed Christians can help me out here.

You own a copy of the bible? A commenter who takes the name of one of the most foul murderers in history?
Most of the people who post their comments here have no problem with giving to the truly needy, but where is it written that we should be slaves to the slothful?

Iberia,
He also never said, "steal other people's hard earned money and waste in on lazy people just looking for a free ride."

I like Scrooge. Try harder. And as I said in the piece, we don't live in Dickensian England. Read better.

A: you only pay 100 in taxes??

Let's not forget another fact about food bank usage. CHEAP people love them! I remember working at a local food bank over the Christmas holidays and we were handing out the turkeys (for families) and chickens (for single folks). I was well and truely fed up by the end of the day. I counted no less than 24 cars of THAT model year pull up for their free turkey or chicken.

This is more of the same hype we saw a few years ago with my some of my fellow members of the CF "having" to go to food banks. One of the couples that "had" to make use of the bank were two reg force Leading Seamen, pulling down around $75k between them, no kids and living in military married quarters.

Enough to make you hurl sometimes.

Being a product of the "system" myself(I lived in projects in Oshawa and Ottawa as a child)I have seen every welfare scam known to man. From collecting in multiple jurisdictions, to running under the table business's, Canada's "poor" are nothing of the sort. The taxi drivers in this town call the end of the month "millionaires day", because the welfare recipients act like they just won the lottery with their bingo/liquor store/pub/drug runs. Iberia, answer me one question. How can you consider someone who lives in a free home, has cable tv, cell phone, x-box, expensive clothes, good drugs, ATV and an automobile poor? These f@#$ers get free prescription, dental, bus passes, clothing chits, free food, and a sloven lifestyle. Does not sound very poor to me. The city of Kingston spends near 70 million a year just on medical benefits to our local "poor". Which translates into near $1000.00 that my wife and I could use to buy our own benefits, which we do not have at the present time. When the pendulum does swing the other way, Canada's "Poor" will be f@#$ed. because we have not forced them to learn how to take care of themselves. Should be interesting times indeed.

Welfare was intended as a helping hand in times of need, the mentally ill and infirm not withstanding. NOT to be a way of life. My wife assisted social services when we were first married and was helping a 3rd generation welfare family. No they weren't stupid but absolutely knew how to play the system for all its worth.

If those of you think that Kathy and her type are being somehow bigoted and cruel, ask a panhandler to do a couple of hours of yardwork or maintenance around the house. The typical response I get is "I don't want a job, I want money!"

The welfare industry is much like sequestered celebrities putting on a free show for a couple of hours and basking in the glory of having done something while accomplishing nothing. Much like cleaning ones finger nails with a pencil.

Arthur A. may, in fact, be a very nice person. But, IMO, he has a problem. About having $30 of his $100 worth (sic) of taxes spent on the less fortunate, he writes, "And for me, to save me the time and trouble of deciding who needs that $30 dollars, wasting $70 is ok." How responsible is this? Maybe he has money to waste: a lot of hardworking Canadians with responsibilities do not. And $100? Get real, Arthur, it's way more than that.

Present day Canadian "values" trains our kids from an early age that they can always blame someone or something else for their problems and that there will be no to very little accountability for infractions: yes, our schools, in particular, and many parents have "Behaviour Codes", but, certainly in the schools, they're rarely enforced. The Charter, with the "rights" mentality it spawned, has both emboldened our kids, while emasculating those in authority re dealing with entitled, irresponsible miscreants with attitude. The number of such drags on society—for that's surely what they are—has grown exponentially. Also, gratitude for what others do for them? Not on your life: they truly believe the rest of us OWE them. It's sickening.

People like Arthur A., who appear to be somewhat ill informed, if not soft headed and even lazy, think they're helping. They're not. In fact, such Betty Crockers—as I call them—are "double victimizing" the recipients of their paltry aid by having such low standards. As a teacher, setting the bar higher and higher as I help difficult kids—often tough love is needed—is the way that I respect the dignity and worth of these kids. (It's when they work hard to gain skills and become competent learners that they attain a feeling of accomplishment and self-esteem. Trying to simply hand out what needs to be hard earned does not work. Neither does such a give-away respect the true worth of our kids.) Giving up on them—“What would one expect of _____?"—and letting them off the hook is not charitable: in fact, it really shows contempt.

But the educational system and society at large are full of self-satisfied Betty Crockers, who think their benign neglect of indulgence and a few dollars is just dandy. Pathetic. And society's paying a very hefty price for the very defective (non) "citizens" we're churning out. And BTW, Arthur, most of these people are very angry: the more they're coddled, the more they know they're not respected, and the more they think they deserve: a very dangerous brew here. We're already reaping the whirlwind.

set you free and anon have mentioned Christianity. Good. The Christian churches have been helping the needy for millennia—long before the welfare state—and usually much more effectively and with more compassion that the state could ever provide. Christians give money to their churches and other charities way above and beyond their taxes. (Fraser Institute's Generosity Index) Huge, faceless, public bureaucracies fling around and waste other people’s money with abandon, while their services are pretty inefficient. Churches provide many neighbourhood services and treat the funds provided by their congregations—to which they are accountable—much more responsibly.

Kathy’s take on this is much closer to my own. She’s absolutely right: a soft heart with a soft head’s a lethal combination if one really wants to help. What’s needed is a soft heart with a hard head: for both those who give and those who receive, that combination’s much more likely to get worthwhile things accomplished.

The dogmatic left need "victims"..without victims either real or imagined they have no morality to parade in public...also there is no "class struggle" for "social justice" to create social upheaval for....the left have been living on the marketing of victimhood since Marx penned his first class struggle romance novellas.

Without "victims" to fight for lefty becomes just another average schlub on the street indistinct from all the other schlubs... this he can't have as he is no longer the morally superior white knight crusader in his mind's eye.

As Kathy has pointed out ( although she becomes a tad too obtuse with the social Darwinist pap) the "victim" in American society today would be a "king" in any other nation...lush welfare spreads have actually created 2nd and 3rd generation welfare families.....now are these people actually "poor"? Well by middle class standards perhaps they don't own real estate but they certainly have all the comforts they need....except gainful employment.

In many cases these people are living as well or better on the state's long term welfare dime than they would be if they relied on their limited skills to make a living...so the argument they can do better is largely moot.

I also see these people as being satisfied with their life style as they continue to live in welfare rather than use any of the multitude of educational upgrading that is available from the state.

so again are these people poor? Well obviously not in their frame of reference...you want to help poor people??,... help those who have physical disabilities that hold them back from full employment...or those too old or disabled to work...these are the true poor...and the WORTHY poor are damn few and far between.

As for the Leftard blowback on KS and MS...I wonder how many of the foul mouthed complainers ever spent a dime to help the poor...maybe volunteer for work at the Sally anne or at a inner city soup kitchen run by their church??...Naw I thought not.

One of the solutions for me would be to avoid giving 'money' to the poor as much as possible but instead provide the shelter, the food, the medecine and the clothing directly.
Watch a lot of them looking for a job to get 'money'.
Don't believe me?...Next time you see a panhandler beg for money because of hunger, give an apple or a granola bar or something...Just watch your back though, some foods hurt when thrown at you!

Once a friend told me about some neighbours of his who "had to return all their empty bottles" to pay for their grocery bills. He thought this a terrible thing. I thought good for them- they were doing what needed to be done to feed their family and maybe it was time they thought about all the money they were spending on those bottles when they were full and perhaps spending it on groceries instead. They'd probably have something left over.

Iberia:YOU are Scrooge.YOU want others to look after the poor.YOU would have them in the 21st century union houses.Dont accuse others of being insesitive when YOU rely on others to look after the poor and do not do it yourself.

This might seem like an odd question, but has anyone noticed that food banks tend to be in remote areas you have to DRIVE to? This was the issue I had in Edmonton in 2000, when I couldn't afford bus fare, let alone own a car. I hear it's the same in Toronto, though thankfully I haven't had to find out first hand this time around.

In Edmonton, when I was down on my luck and living on cups of rice like the world's palest Ethiopian, it was decent Christian friends who gave me a helping hand. They weren't much better off than I - and didn't have a car to drive me to the elitist foodbank - but what they had they shared. Kathy Shaidle is the same. People like that give you a hand without taking your dignity in the process. Can the same be said for the poverty pimps?

RG - there but for the grace of God and a few good friends

Anyway, I'm still looking in the bible trying to find where Jesus said "I'm alright, so screw you." Perhaps some self proclaimed Christians can help me out here.

Be glad to. Paul wrote it, but it's God's Word.

2 Thessalonians 3:10 For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat.

I followed some of the links on Kathy's blog. I found this comment rather curious. (Edited to pass the censor)
  These people are disgusting a**holes. As it happens I am pretty damn poor -- and one of those folks who need fairly constant medical care, etc etc. And trust me, yes, I exist. No thanks to them. What the HELL happened to this country that we have such horrible people living here? :-(
zhak | Homepage | 10.08.07 - 10:36 pm | #
  I may not be the sharpest knife in the drawer, however I did notice a few things. This person who is "pretty damn poor" owns a computer and has his/her own Homepage. Perhaps he/she is "pretty damn poor" compared to those who live in Rosedale.
  He/she "needs fairly constant medical care", luckily medical care is absolutely free in this country thanks to Tommy Douglas and the NDP, or so I am told anyway.  
Finally "And trust me, yes I exist. No thanks to them" OK if he/she says he/she exists who am I to argue. "No thanks to them" sorry I just don't get that one.   There are many more equally brilliant comments on the links at Kathy's site. Just remember most of them are at leftist sites so if you don't like colourful language stay away.    

ol hoss:

There's a reason it's called Christian charity.

We do it out of kindness, out of our duty of compassion.

The Iberias of the world seem inspired by fictions of all sorts and obscure the realities of life with their utopian fantasies.

Hollywood, of course, is in the fantasy business.

If you live in a city of any size, pick up any so-called alternative media newspaper.

It's heavy on trying to convince its readers that the fictions of film are real and it's the big, bad real-life people who are standing in the way.

Drug ingestion helps fuel these fantasies and are another form of escapism ... the combination has become the true opiate of the masses which pave the way for acceptance of totalitarian philosophies.

I keep reading where people state that many people living on the streets have mental health problems.

If I lived on the streets I would probably have mental health problems too.

I suggest those people on the streets decided to do something about it. Like get washed up, get a job and get a place to live. There are already more than enough agencies around to accommodate them.

Yes it can be that simple ... they have to decide because no one can decide for them as is all things in live .... we are the authors of our own successes or our own horrors.

Enough of the bleeding hearts. Most of us have guilt fatigue and don't care anymore. We all have bigger fish to fry in today's world. Namely our own survival with our failed health care system, bad retirement opportunities now that life-jobs are vanishing, portable pension plans are if ignored, over taxation, the very real Islamic Jihad and the upcoming financial burdens of the not very real problems of climate change etc.

Then there is the keeping our kids of drugs and in collectivist training camps called the educational system, the ever increasing cost of housing and energy ... Concerns over aging parents ....

Yeah, with all that and much more, those who decided to drink, take drugs and live on the streets are not high on my list of priorities.

Your actual knowledge on street life is pretty low.

Many people living on the streets have real problems like psychosis and schizophrenia.

Sure there are some people that abuse the system, but how do you solve the problem of helping the people with real problems.

Your solution cuts them of from help too.

It is also cheaper to help these people live at home with dignity then to put them in a home.

Sure there are some people that abuse the system, but how do you solve the problem of helping the people with real problems.

That's exactly it, isn't it? Those with real disabilities are losing out because the welfare queens and drunks and whatnot are clogging up the system. I would think that anyone who had a real desire to help those who need it most would be the FIRST ones screaming about the abuses, not the last. Unless, of course, your desire to help them is for your own gain...

RG

I keep reading where people state that many people living on the streets have mental health problems.

I notice they're not so crazy they can't figure out where the free eats are.

What gets me is the food is prepared and served to them. Surely they could help prepare their own meal.

I'm sure you could find something in your bible that says practice what you preach, ol' hoss. When you gonna start working for YOUR (farm subsidies) welfare???

I see the left has never learned the difference between a hand up and a hand out...and they know and understand even less of Judeo-Christian teachings and values.

A latter day jewish contemproary of Christ who was expanding on his rabinical teachings stated:

" Give a man a fish and he will be fed for a day...but teach a man to fish and will feed himself for a lifetime."

THIS is the definitive idiom of Christian thought on charity. We must help the unfortunate not the cunning free loader...we must focus on gifting them the means to make themselves self sustaining and self reliant...to regain their self respect,... not providing free handouts indefinitely which will undermine this person's will to be self sufficient, his dignity, self worth and ultimately destroy his humanity as he becomes a reliant slave to largess.

There are other biblical references to how charity is to be given and recieved...as always secular leftist confuse unrestrained largesse with reasoned ethical compassion for an individual.

It is the lefts nonundertanding of compassionate giving on oneself that created a welfare state where the nanny state forces charity on the unworthy and further corrupts them with unrestrained profligate entitlement reliance. A Christian response is to help the poor help themselves..regain dignity and feel like a useful part of society.

As far as the mentally ill on the street are concerned(in Ontario), one only has to thank the glorious NDP and Bob Rae. When they legislated the "rights" of the mentally disabled, it opened the floodgates of hell. The majority of these homeless are schizophrenic, and the police cannot secure them without the homeless person's permission. Once again, the idiot moonbats of this province have screwed the sick and helpless.

I'm sure you could find something in your bible that says practice what you preach, ol' hoss. When you gonna start working for YOUR (farm subsidies) welfare???

I'll take you up on that when I begin to pay out less than I get back. An example would be paying for your education.

kingston:

Once your education system is sealed as a state monopoly, union-delivered model, your problems will continue to multiply.

Ontario is on the verge of confirming to the rest of Canada it is now the People's Republic of Ontario.

But, as the old adage goes, Ontarians will get the government they deserve.

We welcome all who'd like to escape that socialist hellhole to Alberta, where parents are given the option of several education visions and the funding follows the student.

An example of misplaced kindness/charity. The West floods Africa with discarded western clothing that Africans can buy very cheaply. The result: Zambia had a viable garment industry. Wiped out by western aid.

Now, Africans expect the West to provide them with clothing.

One more kid to finish high school(less than 2 years) and we are selling everything and moving out west. These f#$%ing thieves will get no more of my money. Dalton, Howard and the trawna latte sippers can all go to hell!

And I will be taking a highly skilled surgical nurse with me. Screw Ontario and their sick and dying hippies. And we are not the only ones deserting this shit hole.

Opportunities for legitimate earning and a dignified, respectable life abound in this country.

Still, from time to time people stumble and fall and need assistance (myself included)

The best statement still applies; Charity begins at home.

Treat your family well. Put in the time to raise your children as best as you can. Give money to your Church. If your not comfortable with that give to your favourite charity, or, help someone you know who is struggling. Offer them a job or a ride to work. Put your after tax money where your mouth is.

We need to teach people to Win.

arkman:

Charity is a defining value of Christianity.

Thanks for your heartfelt post.

As many of you veteran readers and commenters will have guessed: lefty readers are now playing the closet gay card. It never takes them long. Their vitriol has a familiar pattern: fact-free outrage, "think of the children", cheap psychologizing, pulling out the long debunked junk science statistics, then

a) if you are a conservative female, you're "ugly and need to get laid/raped"
b) if you are conservative male, you are gay.

The left say they love gay people but then when they don't like someone -- he's "gay".

http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=MmI3ZGRiNTcyZWM5YzVjODM2YTVjYzJhZTk4OTMwN2E=

Mark Steyn (who gets that "insult", what, 20 times a day?) replies:

"Well, everyone knows we're all closeted gays on the right but I'm a principled closeted gay. I only solicit casual sex in private-sector men's rooms."

As for me, I cop to being homely and non-stop horny. So: what's their point again...?

It's easier for a camel to jump through the eye of a needle than for a poor man to enter the Kingdom of Heaven, right, Kathy?
Jesus should have done a means test and a little background checking before handing out loaves and fishes to just any deadbeat, and should have told the lepers to buy some health insurance and enrol in an HMO.
Really, Kathy, what would Jesus say?

Christian Left: misguided benevolent dreamers. Christian Right: misguided tight wads. a huge generalization and just my opinion but looking at these posts,appears to have some merit!

"Anyway, I'm still looking in the bible trying to find where Jesus said "I'm alright, so screw you." Perhaps some self proclaimed Christians can help me out here."

Be glad to. Paul wrote it, but it's God's Word.

2 Thessalonians 3:10 For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat.

Posted by: ol hoss at October 9, 2007 10:25 AM

Nice try ol hoss...at quoting the bible out of context. This was part of an admonition to the Christians, not a directive to not help others.

Paul had received word that some members of the church were continuing in their sin of being idle busybodies who refused to work to support themselves. It appears that the Greek men shunned manual labor, left the work to their wives and servants, and occupied themselves in gathering for idle gossip. They leeched off of others rather than work to support themselves. Those members needed to be admonished to repent of their sin.

Apathy, disdain or hate are not options if you are truly a follower of Christ.

...good job Kathy

Jesus would say "What's an HMO?" because there was no such thing. Which is why the concenpt of Christian charity came to be in the first place. And when Jesus began to heal the lepers and bring solace to whores etc, there weren't a lot of people who were milking the system, because there was no system. But now we have one in place where the slightest bump in an otherwise spoiled western road has people running for handouts. And we have "activists" like you who scream at the unfairness of it all if we call that stealing. Even though stealing is exactly what it is.

RG

"Apathy, disdain or hate are not options if you are truly a follower of Christ."

I take it you are not a Christian, Iberia. That's fairly obvious.

Actually, those loaves and fishes were purchased by jesus' followers, so they were his/their property and he could dispose of them as He wished and the vendors presumably received a fair price for their wares.

He didn't _steal_ the bread and loaves from one group and distribute them to another.

Yes, there should be means tests and then some when the money involved is MY money and is being stolen from me and given out to people who may not deserve it AS MUCH AS I DO, BECAUSE I'M THE ONE WHO EARNED IT.

Try harder.

People can and do fall on hard times. People who are trying to improve their situation should get charity, encouragement and support - the proverbial hand-up.

Those who make no attempt to fix things want a hand-out and should should get nothing. If they don't care about improving their lives, why should we?

"I'll take you up on that when I begin to pay out less than I get back. An example would be paying for your education....

Yeah, hoss, I'm sure every welfare queen, drunk and cunning freeloader can also rationalize feeding at the public trough.

>Nice try ol hoss...at quoting the bible out of >context. This was part of an admonition to the >Christians, not a directive to not help others.

>Paul had received word that some members of the >church were continuing in their sin of being >idle busybodies who refused to work to support >themselves. It appears that the Greek men >shunned manual labor, left the work to their >wives and servants, and occupied themselves in >gathering for idle gossip. They leeched off of >others rather than work to support themselves. >Those members needed to be admonished to repent of their sin.

>Apathy, disdain or hate are not options if you >are truly a follower of Christ.

Sorry Iberia, if you substitute the word "Greek" for any number of modern counterparts, your argument falls apart.

Since the majority of "poor" North Americans today are at least nominal, self-identified Christians (no more or less observant than those Greek converts) their current refusal to work puts them within the reach of Paul's admonition.

Your larger arguments fail because you are presuming, very wrongly, that Jesus established a political and economic system. From his Render Unto Ceasar to My Kingdom is Not of This World, his teachings apply to micro individual people and their interactions & behaviour, not to macro society as a whole.

The temptation to apply these micro teachings to macro problems is like the alcoholic who says "one drink is fun, so 20 drinks will be 20 times as fun", with tragic yet predictable results.

Any cure in large enough doses becomes a poison. It is a paradox we are not meant to understand this side of heaven that Jesus' teachings are not workable beyond small groups, any more than manna was supposed to stay fresh for more than 24 hours.

When the words of Jesus clash with those of Paul, I tend to stick with Jesus.

When the words of Jesus clash with those of Paul, I tend to stick with Jesus.

Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the
things that are God's. [Matthew 22:21]

If you would be perfect, go, sell what you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven.
[Matthew 19:21]

Kathy:

What are you going on about? I am not presuming that Christ established a political and economic system. Where did I write that?

You are using sophistry to dismiss the expectation that people who proclaim themselves as Christians actually behave like Christians, ie Matt. 22:39.

Cherry picking the parts of Christianity that you like is hypocritical.

Food banks?

A local service club has built an outside pavilion for local use. BTW, it's built on Federal government property.

The club invited the public to help pay for it by buying a brick for the flooring which is not a concrete slab. The floor is interlocking paving stones. The donor could select the inscription to be carved. Well done.

Among the names carved onto the bricks is one: ----- Food Bank. The donations called for each brick to cost $150.00.
This Food Bank also expanded this summer increasing its floor area. Its motto on its sign: Free food For All.

Food Banks = scam. Ask Gerard Kennedy, ex-food bank manager, Citoyen Dion's booster.

Wow. Jesus only works on small groups. For big ones, you need Ayn Rand.
That is an incredible new take on the Lord's work. Did you come by this yourself, Joan of Arc-style?
Did the voices tell you that?

Lloyd, I look forward to receiving via email a scan of the receipts you received from the Salvation Army when you donated all your worldly goods to them. Also the paperwork indicating that you have sold your home, cashed in all your RRSPs, and closed your bank account and have indeed donated all this money to the poor.

It is now 4PM EST. We'll all be waiting here. I'll post the files when they come in.

Iberia, you may want to talk to Lloyd about "cherry picking" since Lloyd doesn't accept that St Paul speaks for Jesus. Have fun you two. There is nothing new about believing that Jesus didn't establish a political system since He, well, obviously didn't. Jesus did tell me that, but not with voices. Read the bible.

Kathy there are many Roman Catholics that would argue that Jesus most certainly did start a political system.

His system would start with him then the 12 apostles then the rest of the congregation. After Jesus went to heaven Paul took over as the head of the church.

It could also be argued that the main part of missionary work in the early church was to spread the word of God and increase the size of the early Christian church. This church did become the most powerful political system in the western world. This would also be true under the Anglicans as well as Catholics.

However many protestants would argue against this saying that their personal relationship with God is of paramount importance. This would ignore the whole work of Paul.

I personally like believing that I am part of a 2 billion strong community of Christians, that vote in politicians that vote based on their beliefs.

actually the early church usurped the Roman empires politican system. whether Jesus started it ? I doubt it. more like Paul.

certainly Paul's (a roman)version of christianity with all its administration is one of the earliest results. they have administration before they hit the road from Jerusalem.

Food banks were set up by unions to try and embarrass Mulroney. It turned out to be the start of the lucrative poverty industry. This industry supports social workers, unions, lawyers and professional activists. Billions spent with little results. As an example, there are 35 social agencies that support to homeless in Ottawa while most of the work is done by the Salvation Army and the Shepherds of Good Hope. These agencies, supported by another member of the poverty industry (United Way), help these homeless people by printing out pamphlets and distributing condoms from there lush offices as they decided to do so at their national association’s annual conferences.

It’s been estimated that if you were to take all the money earmarked for the homeless you could build an apartment buildings in each city and give each of the homeless people an apartment to live in for free. With the money saved by having a guaranteed annual income of say $18,000 a year everyone would have a minimal and comfortable life. Those that would suffer would of course be the usual parasites: lawyers, unions, professional activists and their supporting staffs.

that the church became "the most powerful political system in the world" is not necessarily a good thing or the will of God.

Having ignored completely almost all the comments above (because Kathy nailed it to the WALL) I have only this to say:

All the trolls whinging about how mean Kathy is bray loudly and often about "rights". I never hear anyone say anything about "responsibility".

Being a physical therapist you hear a lot of hard luck stories. The only people I know who are on permanent welfare are wheelchair confined quadriplegics and/or have major brain damage.

All the ones with half a functional brain and even one good arm are out there doing whatever they can to make a buck. No matter how smashed up, damaged, bent, spindled or mutilated, they feel it is their responsibility to make themselves useful.

The ones who don't usually die fairly quick. There's a lesson in there, somewhere.

Boy Kathy you got your thumb on the sore spot! Well done and do write that book, your beautiful mind and feisty personality will beat the inane foto beauties any day! Mark as usual has you sized up about as well as he does everything else.
Paul

Kathy,

just had a chance to read this post - outstanding. and the kudos from Mark Steyn - congrats!

valster wrote, "Christian Left: misguided benevolent dreamers. Christian Right: misguided tight wads. a huge generalization and just my opinion but looking at these posts,appears to have some merit!"

I wrote at 8:59, "set you free and anon have mentioned Christianity. Good. The Christian churches have been helping the needy for millennia—long before the welfare state—and usually much more effectively and with more compassion that the state could ever provide. Christians give money to their churches and other charities way above and beyond their taxes. (Fraser Institute's Generosity Index) Huge, faceless, public bureaucracies fling around and waste other people’s money with abandon, while their services are pretty inefficient. Churches provide many neighbourhood services and treat the funds provided by their congregations—to which they are accountable—much more responsibly."

Phantom wrote, "All the trolls whinging about how mean Kathy is bray loudly and often about 'rights'. I never hear anyone say anything about 'responsibility'." I did, big time @8:59. Check it out!

lookout:

I'm sure you'll agree that under state-run compassion, most of the resources end up in the bureaucracy.

One thing sticks out in my mind and the numbers are different due to inflation.

There was an example of an welfare recipient who gets $800 a month.

The cost of delivering this welfare was somewhere in the range of $2000 a month ... fancy offices, heating bills, salaries that were much above the average wage-earners, etc. etc.

Since my memory is fading fast, I would not be surprised if that $2000 figure to deliver $800 of welfare is even higher.

Sounds like self-serve compassion to me.

Brava! Your post is good. You are forgetting one big class of poor, though:

the mentally ill who should be locked up for public safety as well as their own good.

There are more than a thousand of them, and they are a menace to the well-ordered polis. Throwing money at them does no good. Throwing rotten fruit at them while shouting, "move along, troll" is considered bad form in polite society.

They are, for the most part, blameless. It is the liberal lawyers and ACLU supporters who keep them on the street who are to blame.

Anyway, this sort of thing is much better than griping about Christians not following your own example in PR. Keep it up. It will keep you away from the day when you are pestering me for change on the subway.

Anyway, I'm still looking in the bible trying to find where Jesus said "I'm alright, so screw you." Perhaps some self proclaimed Christians can help me out here.

Jesus said the poor will always be among us.

Apologies if this was already said.

God helps those who help themselves does NOT condone self-serve compassion schemes.

An example of misplaced kindness/charity. The West floods Africa with discarded western clothing that Africans can buy very cheaply. The result: Zambia had a viable garment industry. Wiped out by western aid.

The Road To Hell™ is paved with Good Intentions™.

I wonder what all self-congratulating, smug, anti-American Canadian "progressives" think about the man who was behind the research profiled in this David Frum piece:

EVA'S GOT IT WRONG
November 18, 2006, National Post

You'll never know who will turn up in Washington to talk politics. On Wednesday, the city was graced by actress Eva Longoria, the sultry star of ABC's Desperate Housewives. Addressing an audience of Latino business leaders, she explained the wide appeal of her show: "Everyone on Wisteria Lane has the money of a Republican, but the sex life of a Democrat."

It's a pretty good joke--but very poor sociology. Over the past 15 years, it is the Democrats, not the Republicans, who have emerged as the party of upper-income America. In 2000, Al Gore beat George Bush among the 4% of voters who described themselves to exit pollsters as "upper class." In 2004, John Kerry won nine of the 10 richest zip codes in the United States.

As for sex--well, it turns out that it's Republican (and especially Republican women) who have it more often and better. The two strongest predictors of Republican affiliation in America are (1) marriage and (2) church attendance. These are also the strongest predictors of female sexual satisfaction. The authoritative 1995 University of Chicago survey Sex in America found that conservative Protestant married women were the group most likely to report that they "nearly always" orgasmed during sex. Married women of all religions were almost twice as likely as unmarried women to describe their sex lives as "extremely satisfying."

So if offered the choice, reader, you'd be wiser to choose Democratic money and Republican sex.

And yet, somehow the joke would not be very funny that way would it? Stereotypes overwhelm even the strongest facts.

Here's another stereotype, even deeper and more enduring than Longoria's: Liberals are more compassionate than conservatives. Certainly, this is a view deeply held by liberals themselves. Yet the truth is exactly the opposite.

Next week, Basic Books will publish an astonishing new volume by Syracuse University professor Arthur C. Brooks: Who Really Cares. Prof. Brooks reviews the vast academic literature on charitable giving and arrives at a startling conclusion: By virtually every measure, political conservatives are demonstrably more generous, more honest and more public-spirited than political liberals.

Consider for example this one fundamental liberal/conservative dividing line, the question "Do you believe the government has a responsibility to reduce income inequality?" In a major 1996 survey, 33% of Americans gave the liberal answer, "yes"; 43% gave the conservative answer, "no."

Those who gave the conservative answer were more likely to give to charity than those who gave the liberal answer. And when they gave, they gave much more: an average of four times as much as liberal givers.

Correct for income, age and other variables, and you find that people who want government to fight inequality are 10 points less likely to give anything at all--and when they did give, they gave US$263 per year less than a right-winger of exactly the same age earning exactly the same money.

A second survey, this one conducted in 2002, found that people who believe that "people should take care of themselves" accounted for 25% of the population--but gave 31% of America's blood.

"To put this in perspective," Brooks says, "if the whole population gave blood like opponents of social spending do, the blood supply would increase by more than a quarter. But if everyone in the population gave like government-aid advocates, the supply would drop by about 30%."A third survey found that people who believe that the government "spends too much on welfare" were more likely to give directions to someone on the street, return extra change to a cashier, or to give food or money to a homeless person.

A fourth found that a poor family that worked for its income donated three times as much money as a family that received an exactly equal income from welfare.

It's almost a psychological rule: The more you espouse "compassion" in your politics, the more likely you are to be selfish in your personal behaviour.

How often do we hear the generosity of Europe contrasted to the "savage individualism" of the United States? Yet Americans give vastly more to charity: per person, more than twice as much as the Spanish, more than three times as much as the French, seven times as much as the Germans and 14 times as much as the Italians.

Despite working an average of 400 hours more per year than their European counterparts, Americans are 15 percentage points more likely to volunteer their time than the Dutch, 21 points more likely to volunteer than the Swiss and 32 points more likely to volunteer than Germans. (Indeed, 80% of Germans never volunteer their time for any cause at all.)

If we must have stereotypes, let's at least have accurate ones. Not only are conservatives sexier than liberals--they are kinder too.

the mentally ill who should be locked up for public safety as well as their own good.

I agree and we used to do this in the US until………..

……..the liberal idiots [redundancy] started pressuring Reagan to release the mentally ill onto the streets, arguing they were being held against their will and “had a right” to roam the streets if they hadn’t committed a crime. I’m sure the ACLU was involved encouraging this societal degradation. So, here we are decades later and the liberal idiots [redundancy] are whining that the mentally ill are roaming the streets.

I’ll share a story that brings a smile to my face. The communist bedwetters in Santa Monica passed all kinds of local laws allowing homeless to loiter, sleep in the doorways of businesses and urinate and defecate where they damn well please. The liberal idiots [redundancy] wanted to show what enlightened morons they are and now once beautiful Santa Monica is a homeless haven with bums sleeping directly under windows of apartments on the first floor. They’re sleeping in peoples car ports next to liberals Mercedes and BMW’s and the caviar communists are fleeing this filthy city to a clean, orderly Conservative enclave.

Liberals destroy communities with their idiotic laws and then they flee leaving others to clean up the mess. If it wasn’t for these losers the West wouldn’t be rotting.

Over the past 15 years, it is the Democrats, not the Republicans, who have emerged as the party of upper-income America.

The 5 richest Senators are leftist donks. Only the stupid believe democrats are the party of "the little man." Trends in the US show large numbers of former democrat union voters now voting Republican.

Not only are conservatives sexier than liberals--they are kinder too.

Amen.

http://www.rumormillnews.com/images/demrepub_women.jpg

Just tell me where your unit's stationed, Kathy. You know, since you're so pro-war, I take it you're in the army. Or if you have a kid or sibling, or even a first cousin, I'll send the paperwork through them.
You invoke the name of our Saviour for what fits, then reject His word when it doesn't fit your angry, mean politics.
It wasn't Jesus who said "Let them eat cake".

Well said, MRV! As I posted earlier, Canada's Fraser Institute's Generosity Index has documented the same fact: conservatives and Christians are personally far more generous than liberals.

Psst . . . AMERICAN conservatives and Christians are vastly more generous than Canadians. This is not my opinion: it's FACT.

Just tell me where your unit's stationed, Kathy. You know, since you're so pro-war, I take it you're in the army.

Hey moron, it's a volunteer army. So we have to join them to support them?

Typical leftist intellectual retard.

If you've never been a police officer or fire fighter don't even think of requesting their services.

You are dead on the money with this one Kathy.
As one of those ex druggie welfare (clean 16 years now) I can say from personal experience that the welfare system was a contributing part of the delay in me getting clean and sober.
In order for a person to get clean and sober you must hit a bottom, this can vary for the person in the level of bottom they have to reach. when you reach your personal bottom it is only then that you can becoming willing to take the steps that are necessary for recovery. Welfare for myself usually kept a roof over my head and gave me a day off that I did not have to pull scams to get loaded.
When I did get clean, welfare gave me no help to get off welfare, it in fact encouraged me to stay on. With very little work experience to fall back on, I started a little business putting a old pick up and myself to work, and now own a second hand business, including the building, which is almost mortgage free.
I never give cash to panhandlers, but will them to a restaurant and buy them a meal or give them a bag of groceries, both of these offers have been turned down by panhandlers professing to be hungry.
Locally we had a number of homeless camped out at city hall, a contractor approached them and offered all of them a job,not one took him up on his offer.
Tough love works, nothing for nothing just enables.

Wow, Fister (does that mean what I think it means?) is so tangled up in his irrational hatred for Kathy that he's pulling the (oh so terribly original) chickenhawk ploy.

Dude, your mother's calling you to the table. Leave the grownups now to discuss world issues.

RG

Lloyd Fisher, your posts are mean spirited, sophomor[on]ic and shallow.

Please let us know what your obviously self-sacrificial activities are on behalf of the down and out--many of whom find the free handouts of self-choosing such a designation more profitable than giving themselves a challenge--so that the rest of us niggardly SDA types might be given the inspiration to do and give even more.

Apollyon:

Exactly the same thing happened in Ontario re the mentally ill. Our disastrous NDP government of some years ago decided it was against their human rights to force the mentally ill to take their medication or get treatment, with predictable results. Toronto has huge numbers of mentally ill people roaming the streets who would be productive members of society if they got treatment. Apparently this is a thing.

Anyone care to comment on the White House's enlightened(for a dark ages power) policy on stem cell research?.....

Minuteman, the problem with the liberals is they base their views on feelings- and no facts to the contrary can shake that warm fuzzy feeling their leftist drivel gives them.

I forgot a great part to the story about Santa Monica……….

One of the nearby states got word of Santa Monica becoming the Homeless Mecca and they sent bus loads of their homeless to Santa Monica. Just brilliant; if I were a mayor I’d do the same thing.

Kingstonlad 12:27 - save yourself the trip. Mr Stelmach is on the verge of slaughtering the Golden Goose at month's end, before you even get here. This province will now endure another NEP, instituted by an Albertan government, without even going to the people for a vote. I'd hang onto that job in Ontario if I were you. I've already lost mine.

I try my best to keep Lloyd under control but sometimes he gets away.

The Republicans had a debate today and Giuliani, whom I'm personally not in favor of, had a good line.........

"If we implement HillaryCare, Canadians will have no place to come for their health care."

That's pretty funny.

jt:

Peter Lougheed, in the early 70s, figured it would be a good idea if the royalty rate was set somewhere around 25%.

Ralph Klein was convinced by his friends in the Calgary oilpatch head offices that they should pay somewhat less ... around 22% as I recall. Correct me if I'm wrong.

So, if Stelmach would increase royalties by 20% (4.4% in real terms), that would mean a royalty rate of 26.4%.

I'm betting Stelmach announces a 25% rate as Lougheed first suggested. At worst, it will be 26%.

Wanna take that bet?

Even though I'm Albertan, I cannot stand the whining of Calgary's millionaires and 67% of Albertans agree with me.

Kingstonlad, be not afraid. You won't regret your move from the People's Republic of Ontario to the freedom of Alberta.

Psychiatric patients were being released from mental institutions in Ontario in the 1980's, long before the NDP was in power...but don't let the facts get in the way of delusions.

I'm a bit late to this post (work will do that to ya, ya know) but I am quite interested in the tone this thread has taken. As I posted on another thread I was called to minister and at the beginning of my ministry I gave practically everything away. I must admit I did keep my beat up rusty old Toyota but I did give away a much better pickup, house, money clothes and business. I then went to preach to the down and out in a small unnamed city and in so doing came into contact with a good number of people who were by choice or at least the result of making bad choices living on welfare.

One family in particular stood out because they were collecting almost $2,000 per month from welfare by hiding the rent they were getting from their farm and the income he was making as a journeyman finishing carpenter.

However most were not like that and the greatest problems they seemed to have was bad judgement. They couldn't seem to see the consequences of their actions btw not all were FAS. When they received their welfare money they would rush out to get drunk or go to Bingo (no casinos available then) or buy something they didn't need or couldn't use and run out food a few days later. Among the others were those who had mental health issues schizophrenia, and psychosis rearing their ugly heads but one of the most dominate mental issues was depression. The sufferers just couldn’t get out of their depression long enough to find work or if they found a job they would soon lose it because they would get depressed and not bother showing up for work.

Then of course there were those who were dreamers. One sweet lady I continue to pray for thought she was an unappreciated artist. To my eyes it looked like she couldn’t draw a straight line with a laser guided ruler but that was just my opinion.

Others were just plain lazy incapable of summoning the drive to wipe their butt after taking a dump. Yet I must say that every one of us are made in God’s image and worthy of love. I know of people who work tirelessly trying to find work for the unemployed. A friend of mine is running a very interesting ministry. He gets church funding to provide welfare recipients work. He uses the funding to do odd jobs for the city and province things like tree planting or garbage cleanup. The church funding goes to pay the welfare recipients a living wage for the work they do. However they have to agree to a contract which stipulates no booze or dope and if they sleep in he has their permission go wake them up and get them to the jobsite. He says one of the biggest obstacles he faces is the people he works with don’t know how to work. Some of them are intergenerational welfare recipients and old habits die hard.

Jesus was very wise when He said we would always have poor amongst us. All our efforts are not going to eliminate poverty but then again maybe that is a good thing. For Jesus also said blessed are the poor. He then went on to say woe to the rich. Sometimes I think we look at humanity through the wrong end of the telescope.

Thank you, Joe, for your wise words and insights.

At my church sometimes people phone to see if they can get money for a bus ticket or whatever. The church will say sure, just come on by and we can get you to do some work for the money. They never come. A church can weed out the truly needy from the not so truly needy, but the govt. is not able to.

Joe's comment reminds me of another little thing. More than half the construction income in Ontario is under the table. Cash, as they say, is king. Reason being, guys hiding income.

Hiding income because if they don't, the taxes will take food right out of their mouths and they won't be getting that nice little pogey check every month to cover the lease on the truck. No truck, no work. So if you want to make a living doing honest work you gotta steal and lie. Nice!

The cumulative effect on the morale of the industry is corrosive, to say the least, and it shows in the build quality. Lying and stealing have costs associated with them. You and I pay those costs every time an insurance company pays out for a roof leak on a new house.

Jesus should have done a means test and a little background checking before handing out loaves and fishes to just any deadbeat...

He did. All those who made the effort to attend were fed.

Stephen, you don't understand Ayn Rand.

Yes, I do.

She is for smart people,

No, she isn't.

don't try to read her books.

Too late, I already have.

I found her quite impressive, actually.

For about six weeks when I was sixteen.

Iberia:

Re: Psychiatric patients were being let out of hospitals in Ontario ...

That explains a lot.

For Jesus also said blessed are the poor. He then went on to say woe to the rich.

The blessing of the poor is the contrast between this world and the Kingdom to come.

The scripture on the "rich going through the eye of the needle" refers to a rich man having to unload his riches before entering the Kingdom. You can't take it with you.

The scripture on the "rich going through the eye of the needle" refers to a rich man having to unload his riches before entering the Kingdom. You can't take it with you.

The last sentence I can fully agree with but can you please square your interpretation with the following?

Nor will people say, 'Here it is,' or 'There it is,' because the kingdom of God is within you."?

...the eye of a needle also could mean that riches will blind people.

It is NOT a sin to be rich. Money is NOT the root of evil.

I am rich and have money and I am not in sin.

That's another beg-a-thon gone bad mentality.

It is NOT a sin to be rich. Money is NOT the root of evil.

Absolutely true. Scripture says it's the love of money that is the root of all evil. 1 Timothy 6:10.

The last sentence I can fully agree with but can you please square your interpretation with the following?

Nor will people say, 'Here it is,' or 'There it is,' because the kingdom of God is within you."?

The proper translation is "among you". And so He was. The same meaning as Matt. 12:28 and John 1:26.

...at the same time I don't want to sound like the guy who said he was rich, his barns full, and needs nothing, aka Leodecian church.

"That explains a lot"

Weyburn, saskatchewan was on the so-called cutting edge of that theory of treatment. Read about it.

The proper translation is "among you". And so He was. The same meaning as Matt. 12:28 and John 1:26.

What I am driving is the verb “is” present tense not the prepositional phrase “in you” or “among you“.

BTW my post is a cut and paste from the NIV. Not my favourite translation but one that is readily available on line.