Must be a typo, lost in the translation or something.

A lot of hyperbole in that speech. How does one sell oil and gas in a brutal fashion anyways?

On an unrelated note talkingpointsmemo has shot and scored, Gonzo is gone. That wasn't the ultimate goal of course but the fact that he's being blown off like ablative shielding tells you something.

That took me far too long to get. Nicely done.

The alienation of America's traditional allies just gets deeper and deeper. /sarcasm

How does one sell oil and gas in a brutal fashion anyways?

Just like Putin does. Cutting off supplies, punatively doubling prices and building a pipe line to exclude neighbors(Ukraine, Georgia, Belarus, Estonia etc) that don't bend to your will or are aligned with the west.

Perhaps finally the French have figured out that the Muslim bomb so close to Europe isn't going to be a benign event and America can't be the world's only cop.

Talk is cheap. Let's see if the French follow through on this.

I think the plan to nuke Iran has been policy for some 3 years now since the CFR and Bilberbergs gave it the go-ahead. It's a bipartisan initiative in Washington and the EU will sit and watch it without much of a squeek. Obviously trade arrangements with Russia and China have bought their inaction on the matter.

I'd say nuking Iran is a sure bet, and if Iranians want to survive they had better hustle in removing the whack job regime that brought this on...otherwise it will surely kill them to support a caliphate which has openly taunted and antagonized an already irate Washington military-security cartel.

The US should fix the mess they made in Iraq and Afghanistan before trying to take on anything more.

Iberia writes: "The US should fix the mess they made in Iraq and Afghanistan before trying to take on anything more."

Iberia, Iran is part of the problem (in Iraq and Afghanistan). World problems must be dealt with as they arise, regardless of existing obligations.

Bomb Iran?

OK – imagine for just a sec you are Iran(ian)

* you never started an aggressive war (Persia perhaps but not Iran)
* you were attacked by Saddam (who was a US/Euro ally)
* you are surrounded by US vassal states such as Iraq, Afghanistan, with large US armed forces
* you are surrounded by nuclear powers, some of which are very hostile: Pakistan, Russian, Former Sov. States, Isreal, India, China etc
* you helped put down the Taliban
* the US, the worlds’ super power, is constantly talking about bombing you including using nuclear weapons
* the US is making up evidence against you (just like the lead up to Iraq/03)
* you just watched a crazy dictator allow weapons inspectors to spy on his country while they found no WDM (Iraq) – then get invaded, deposed, killed etc.
* you just watched another crazy dictator who may or may not have nuclear weapons stare down the UN/US etc and kick out the inspectors (Korea)
* when he calls for an end to Israel…. the same way that R. Reagan and others called for an end to the Sov. Union – and seen that wish fulfilled (note the countries and people are still there but the Sov. political entity has gone away) … your figurehead president (real power in Iran is religious) gets mis-translated

try on a different perspective and you might just understand the world a little better – wouldn’t you want a nuclear capability in the circumstance??

Oh ya …
China is a neighbour and potential ally – they need Iran oil just as bad as “we” do. They will likely side with Iran in the world war you seem determined to start

Fun

WMLR - your adamant desire to 'nuke' Iran is..well, it's worse than just silly armchair talk. Why should the US do this? Have you ever thought through the results? For the US and the world and Iran?

The US, in my view, is counting on the arab states to deal with Iran - Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Iraq - Syria etc. I suspect that Sarkozy is involved in this agenda. The West's role in reigning in Iran's imperialist ambitions is to publicize it - a lot. But leave the attacks up to the ME arab states - and the Iranian people.

lberia - now that both Afghanistan and Iraq are released from totalitarianism - [or do you support the Taliban and Hussein?] - what is happening now is a slow and laborious process of moving from a tribal to an industrial economic and political mode. You, of course, in your wisdom, think that such a transition can be done magically - with a flick of the wand.

In real life, lberia - it takes a lot of work, education and building different infrastructures. You aren't willing to give the Afghan and Iraqi people that freedom and time. Why not?

My only concern is that if France does decide for the Beach Boy solution, the US and the rest of it's allies would be more or less obligated to finish the mess that they started.

the US is making up evidence against you (just like the lead up to Iraq/03)

Come again? The US had nothing to do with the 8 year Iran/Iraq War. It started over border disputes. Are you suggesting that the US was moving their border lines around at night???? So, is Sarkozy makng up the Iranian threat too?

try on a different perspective and you might just understand the world a little better – wouldn’t you want a nuclear capability in the circumstance??

So, are you saying that Iran wants the bomb for defensive purposes and this was just a joke?............

"Iran's new hard-line president called yesterday for Israel to be "wiped off the map" - the first time for many years that such a high-ranking Iranian official has called for the Jewish state's eradication."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml? dxml=/news/2005/10/27/wiran27.xml&sSheet=/news/2005/10/27/ixnewstop.html

I'm beathlessly awaiting your answers, Ron.

Ron, like Iberia, Alby, et al are hopeless. They will never understand. Not even if a jihadi was cutting into their throat screaming praises to Allah.

They are not different from those fool "peace" activists who chained themselves to Saddam's military facilites in the first gulf war.

Their world view is delusional. Like all paranoid delusionals, they feel it's everyone ELSE who's crazy.

"I'd say nuking Iran is a sure bet,"

Learn to live with disappointment. If it's any consolation a lot of muslims in the Middle East will be dying in horrific fashion over the next ten years thanks to Bush. Try to take solace in that.

jose - what a cryptic statement. What do you mean?
You state that a 'lot of Muslims in the ME will be dying in horrific fashion over the next ten years - thanks to Bush'. Please explain.

My understanding, albeit obviously inferior to yours, is that a lot of Muslims were dying horrific deaths in the ME in the LAST 20 years - due to people like the Taliban, Saddam Hussein, the Iranian-Iraqi leaders, Syria etc, etc. That is, they were engaged in tribal conflicts, in establishing fascist fundamentalist states..and so on.

Now that the US - and other nations - such as the UK, Australia, Netherlands, Germany, Japan - oh, and Canada - and the UN/NATO - have freed two of these countries from dictators who killed Muslims - the next phase is a resolution to tribalism. Tribalism has to be rejected - by the Muslims themselves - and a civic society that defines people as citizens rather than tribal members - must be developed.

Again, Jose - could you explain your cryptic remarks?

If it's any consolation a lot of muslims in the Middle East will be dying in horrific fashion over the next ten years thanks to Bush

How's that? Bush only has another year in office.

Oh, and, ten years from now what's your guess on the chances of 6 million Israelis dying a horrific death if Iran has their bomb? What part of Ahmadinejad's statement did you not get?

Penny "How's that? Bush only has another year in office."

Unfortunately the mess he's created will last longer than that.

Penny
have a look ...
Translation of phrase "wiped off the map"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmoud_Ahmadinejad_and_Israel

And as far as lead up to Iraq/03 I am talking about the WDM con job the US elite did on you folks in 02/03 when they wanted to further the PNAC agenda, not the '80s war against Iran that they supported Saddam on.

Jose,

The mess in the ME was created long before Bush. Jr or Sr.

You're a twit.

Warwick

At least try to refute a point (like Penny did, though she left most of mine untouched)

oh heck - easier to call us hopeless - why try to think

The biggest point is that Bush taught the crazy (or otherwise paranoid) dictators of the world to arm themselves to the teeth with WDM (korea) rather than cooperate with the UN (Saddam)
anyone care to refute that one!!!???

ron, North Korea developed their nuclear weapons under Clinton. Most of Saddam's No Fly Zone and nuclear inspection violations were under Clinton. Google it. I'm working on my laundry now and can't spare more time for hunting down every fact you need at your disposal.

Let's call it quits for the day.

Bomb Iran conspiracy exposed!
Yet another version!

The "mess" in Iraq is probably 2/3rds Iranian funded and supplied. Iranians keep getting caught doing attacks in Iraq as well. If the Frogs want to step up (finally!) and drop some iron on the mullahs that's all to the good.

I very much doubt any nation will bother to nuke Iran. Their military wouldn't last any longer than Saddam's did, and their people don't like them.

Of course if Iran nukes somebody else first, all bets are off.

Ron, does something called the "UN oil for food scandal" ring any bells for you?

Your bridge misses you. Go climb back under it eh?

The cognitive disability of these lefty trolls is really remarkable!
More proof that Liberalism is a Mental Disorder...

But wouldn't it be amazing if France did turn out to be the first nation to use a nuke as a weapon since 1945?

ron - would you care to substantiate your 'point' that 'Bush taught ..the dictators..to arm themselves..rather than cooperate with the UN'.

Would you provide substantiation for this claim? Thanks.

Things like: how did Bush teach them?
Oh- and by the way, as has been pointed out - are you aware that Hussein didn't cooperate with the UN?
Oh- and are you aware of the Oil-For-Fraud run by the UN?
Oh- and are you aware that N.Korea and Iraq's WMD programs were existent long before Bush?
Oh - and are you aware of ..?

Yoo hoo - jose. Answer the questions. Otherwise, you are trolling, i.e., posting sheer nonsense, not making a single reasoned and factual point.

Penny tried but could only make irrelevant comments

others mostly just called me names etc
(I was carefully polite you might notice)

no one took on the substance of my arguments
(perhaps they were beyond your ken?)

I guess it is just too hard for you guys to try a rational dialog -

enjoy your cozy little patch here - I will not intrude in the future to challenge your narrow views

Yep, you're a troll. Go back to Rabble, they like trolls.

The thing is, ron, that you refused to engage in any discussion. Several of us asked you to explain your opinions - and yet - you didn't do so. You just accused us of not having a 'correct perspective' -i.e., insisting that we adopt a different perspective.

But - we asked you specific questions; we asked you to substantiate your opinions - and you've refused to do this. Surely you can't expect people to simply accept what you say - because you say it. Particularly when your opinions are ungrounded or illogical and/or contrary to fact.

So- I think it's unreasonable of you to flit into a blog, unload your opinions - and then, when asked for clarification and substantiation - to refuse to do so and berate us for not having the 'right perspective'.

ET "Yoo hoo - jose. Answer the questions."

Well everyone else seens to know I'm referring to the ensuing and ongoing slaughter going on in Iraq. I lay that at Bush's feet funnily enough.

Jose

And I lay the blame firmly at the feet of the UN who failed to act for over 10+ years while the Iraqis suffered the butchery of Sadam and his psychotic sons.

And now let us take your comment a little farther and say hey, why not, lets just walk on by while someone is being abused or murdered and not do anything about it. That’s the kind of blinkered world jose lives in.

Thanks anyway I would prefer not to live in your world jose.

jose - you haven't answered my questions. All you've done is repeat yourself - saying that you attribute the cause of the 'ongoing slaughter' to Bush. You said that. I asked you to explain this - and repeating your opinion isn't an explanation.

YOU said that a lot of muslims will be dying a horrific death over the next ten years - due to Bush. I asked you to explain this.

You seem unaware that a lot of Muslims were dying a horrific death during the era of Hussein. And during the era of the Taliban. You don't seem to know this. Or care. You seem to assume that it was all 'light and roses' before. Why do you assume this, jose?

Now - you haven't explained why you ignore that a lot of Muslims were dying horrific deaths prior to the defeat of the Taliban and Hussein - why this doesn't bother you. Does it not bother you to hear about women being stoned to death for being raped? Hmm? Does it not bother you to hear about women confined to their homes, not allowed an education, not allowed medical treatment?

And, you haven't explained why a lot will die in the next ten years - due to Bush. Please explain.

Remember, jose, that people aren't robots; they have to take responsibility for their own actions. So, if one tribe sets out to kill another tribe - I think you'll have to put the onus on those individuals. Not some far-off leader in another country. That type of non-linear causality is a 'bit much'.

So- unless you are a troll, jose, kindly explain. And simply repeating yourself isn't an explanation.

missing link "And now let us take your comment a little farther and say hey, why not, lets just walk on by while someone is being abused or murdered and not do anything about it."

Well you're doing a helluva job. Keep up the good work.

ET- Judging by your comments you seem to know full well what my point is.

yoo hoo - jose. Conclusion - you are a troll.

You refuse, or are unable to, justify and explain your opinions.
No, jose - repeating your opinion isn't an explanation.
No, jose - telling the questioner that 'you understand what I'm talking about' - isn't an explanation.

YOU are responsible for your actions, jose. No-one else. You can't fob off responsibility - the responsibility to be meaningful - onto others.

It isn't up to me to explain your opinions. It is up to you to justify them.

Again - you haven't answered my question. Kindly explain how and why a 'lot of muslims will be dying a horrific death over the next ten years - and that is all Bush's fault. If you are not just a slithering troll, you have to:

- define 'lot of muslims'
- define 'horrific death
- explain the time phase of ten years
- relate the above to Bush as causal agent.

Are you a troll, jose?

"- define 'lot of muslims'"

Geez we're just being thick for the hell of it now aren't we. Well how many muslims is a lot, is 77,000 enough to count, how about 600,000. Both seem over the threshold to me.

The ten years was speculation on my part, that's how long most low intensity civil conflicts tend to bubble on for.

As for Bush being the causal agent for the Iraq War. I don't think that needs establishing, the buck starts and stops with him.