Fascinating, and well worth 20 minutes of your time.

"You've never seen data presented like this. With the drama and urgency of a sportscaster, Hans Rosling debunks myths about the so-called "developing world" using extraordinary animation software developed by his Gapminder Foundation. The Trendalyzer software (recently acquired by Google) turns complex global trends into lively animations, making decades of data pop. Asian countries, as colorful bubbles, float across the grid -- toward better national health and wealth. Animated bell curves representing national income distribution squish and flatten. In Rosling's hands, global trends -- life expectancy, child mortality, poverty rates -- become clear, intuitive and even playful."

http://www.ted.com/talks/view/id/92

"Like Father, Like Spoiled Son"
Very good read Via National NewsWatch

If only Trudeau had been exposed for what he was in the 60's, Would we be where we are today?

Penny - wow! Cut right through a lot of BS with that...awesome!

People tried to get the truth out re trudeau, but the media and leftists of the day refused to cover it or believe it.
On the giggles show on ctv last Sunday, giggles asked Diane A. how to increase tourism from the US. After watching the idiots, with covered faces, stupid signs, anti US slogans etc, why would americans want to come here to spend money. However, cdns continue to travel to the US to spend money.

Professor Freeman Dyson on "Heretical Thoughts about Science and Society":

"...I will discuss the global warming problem in detail because it is interesting, even though its importance is exaggerated. One of the main causes of warming is the increase of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere resulting from our burning of fossil fuels such as oil and coal and natural gas. To understand the movement of carbon through the atmosphere and biosphere, we need to measure a lot of numbers. I do not want to confuse you with a lot of numbers, so I will ask you to remember just one number. The number that I ask you to remember is one hundredth of an inch per year...The number that I ask you to remember is the increase in thickness, averaged over one half of the land area of the planet, of the biomass that would result if all the carbon that we are emitting by burning fossil fuels were absorbed..."

http://www.edge.org/documents/archive/edge219.html

He also discusses other heresies regarding the science of petroleum formation and other climatic and geological changes. An excellent read.

"You can go outside and spit and have the same effect as doubling carbon dioxide."

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=57253

http://www.ted.com/talks/view/id/92

I watched this and agree. It's very interesting, well-done, and informative. Worth your time. Thanks, Penny.

Mike

I love this picture of Dion. Symbolic? I think so.

http://multimedia.thestar.com/images/assets/178289_3.JPG

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BEsZMvrq-I

Pre-911 Dick "Darth" Cheney feeling that an invasion of Iraq in 1991 (DS1) would be a quagmire not worth the American lives required to achieve it.

Amazing that the Democrats and anti-war faction did not use this in the 2004 election. They are amazingly incompetent for missing this.

Endeavour has landed after 15 million miles. Talk about your airmiles piling up, eh.

Never gets old to see a shuttle land.

Yes, Texas Canuck, what a smooth landing!

Chris_In_Ontario: I read the link you posted and it starts off with a referal to the paper that Kate posted here yesterday. I gave a link to the work of Dr. Annan who has presented his criticism of the paper. Nothing in your link addresses his points.

However there was some other information in your link and I would like to address one of those. Joseph D'Alea, former chief of the American Meteorological Society's Committee on Weather Analysis and Forecast said:

"Only 2.75 percent of atmospheric CO2 is anthropogenic in origin ...

DO you agree with this statement or not?

Regards,
John

"Blacks are to the Left today what the working class were to Marx in the 19th century — pawns in an ideological game."

"Blacks who rise out of poverty are of no great interest to the Left, unless the way they do so is by attacking society."

Thomas Sowell on the hypocrisy of the Left.

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=Mjc2NGM4NTBmYmUwYzRkYzNmMGVkMWZhYjU5ZjEzNDE=

"DO you agree with this statement or not?"

Oooooo look out!
Watch how you answer Chris.
John Cross is about to prove why he's the witch doctor, and why he gets to chose which virgins get to meet the god in the volcano.

"Usufruct"

Here is a pretty good slapdown of NASA's James Hansen, in his attempt to invoke the ghost of Thomas Jefferson in reply to criticisms relating to his errors in the U.S. temperature record. But in what is now a "cold" streak for Dr. Hansen, he appears to have got it "usufruct"-up. By the way, he feels all of us skeptics are just Court Jesters. I guess we've been told!

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2007/08/19/nasa-s-hansen-says-global-warming-skeptics-are-court-jesters-working-

When you complain to city hall about crime and vandalism in your neighbourhood they think you are crazy. Literally!
http://tinyurl.com/3e37ut

Excellent read,penny. Thanks.
Guess John Crap never heard of volcanoes.
Sigh.Hey John.Do us a favour.Cut your carbon footprint by shutting of your power and computer.

Even the CBC can get it right occaisionally. Check out "Global Warming Doomsday Called Off"http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3309910462407994295. Takes care of the "settled science" and the evil conspiracy of "big oil" in one fell swoop.

Hans Rosling is one of my favorite nerds... I'm connected by dial-up right now, so i'm not 100% certain, but i think the link Penny posted is from his initial 2006 TED talk (which was a huge hit), but he did a 2007 update that's also well worth watching (right to the surprise ending...):
http://youtube.com/watch?v=YpKbO6O3O3M
Cheers!

The book IQ and the Wealth of Nations has been taken apart in a review, for not paying sufficient attention to facts that don't support the authors' thesis.

(This criticism, by an "IQ skeptic", should ring a bell for AGW skeptics.)

...on the topic of the CBC occasionally getting it right:
"CBC Moderate Muslims Intimidated In Canada"
Parts 1 & 2:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWPvuAg4HjI&mode=related&search=
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKgaVaNagfM

Summit ends:
Our water is intact, PM points out that the speculation coming from opposition leaders may even include super highways to the continent & Inter-Planetary travel(Zing) even Taber got a good laugh at that one,(pointing out at the expense of Dion),PM shot down roomers of former PM Martin Lurking in the hall ways, He has yet to run into Him. And PM Harper is also quick off the mark to point out these meetings were created by the prior liberal govern.
ctv.ca video

I was just thinking that while we have a glut of concerned "citizens" in Quebec protesting the secrecy surrounding the SPP,the only person who claims to have knowledge of Canada selling our water to the States is Mr. Dion. Would it not make sense for these "citizens" to make thier way to Dion,s riding and demand that Stef tell the rest of Canada what he knows about the secret deals and hidden agenda?

More than half of minority teacher applicants fail test

August 19, 2007

BOSTON --More than half of black and Hispanic applicants for teaching jobs in Massachusetts have failed a crucial state licensing test.

Since the start of the test nearly a decade ago, 52 percent of Hispanics and 54 percent of blacks failed the writing portion of the test compared to a 23 percent failure rate among white applicants.

http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2007/08/19/more_than_half_of_minority_teacher_applicants_fail_test/?rss_id=Boston+Globe+--+Globe+West

Cherniak is such a tool. He's got an entry of a bad picture of Harper. So I posted a link to a picture of Dion that looks like Dion is hanging himself with his scarf. Cherniak first approved the post then subsequently deleted it.

Thus proving they are racists Andrew, they should lower the complexity of the tests til everyone gets 100% only then will equality be reached.

Don't those darn white people know that by studying harder they are giving themselves a white advantage?

And why are hispanics trying for teaching jobs? Haven't they read the propaganda they only want to be janitors and other jobs whites don't want since whites are mentioned in the results they obviously have wanted the job so the whole thing is an imaginary scenario.

:)

Great video -- thanks...

CBC says: "New 'WikiScanner' exposes underhanded editors..."
LINK
But of course makes no mention of the 1200 plus anonymous edits originating from within their org....

CANADIAN BUSINESS GROUP SAYS SPP DEAL PUTS US HOMELAND "SECURITY" ABOVE TRADE AND MOBILITY.

http://tinyurl.com/39u75x

"" Canadian Press

OTTAWA -- A leading North American business group fears Canadian-American relations have been hijacked by the U.S. Department of Homeland Security, with security concerns trumping efforts to enhance trade and economic prosperity.

The Canadian American Business Council also believes that non-governmental organizations and so-called civil society groups -- not just blue chip corporate CEOs -- should be invited to participate in the Security and Prosperity Partnership. ""

This is your brain...

...and this is your brain on the state tit. From Sweden:

http://maxmagnusnorman.com/artist_blog/art_day_281.shtml

As far as I can tell, most of the CBC "1200 plus" anonymous edits on Wikipedia are pretty innocuous . . . mostly informational (adding some detail on a non-political topic, spelling fixes, adding or fixing a link . . . I think it is more likely that it is political parties and their supporters who would be changing things for spin value.

On CTV last night Lloyd Robertson referred to the North American leaders at the summit at the "three amigos". This led into Craig Oliver's report in which he referred to them only as "Bush" and "Harper", never prefacing their names with "President" or "Prime Minister". How disrespectful and biased! The newscast is still up on http://www.ctv.ca/

Justthinkin: Why do you feel that it is necessary to attack the person as opposed to attacking the argument.

Anyway, on to your point which I believe was that volcanoes could be responsible for the current observed increase in atmospheric CO2. While volcanoes do produce CO2, they do not produce as much as you might think. For example Mt. Pinatubo released as much CO2 as anthropogenic sources do in about 18 hours.

It is easy to show that we are responsible for the rise. Take the global oil consumption for a given year. Assume an efficiency (usually about 95%) for the carbon to burn and then calculate the amount of CO2 released. I can work through the numbers with you if you like.

John

Sweeeeet!
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=7ea_1187644738

Eugenics* has been halted, finally. Praise the Rev. Tommy from whom all blessings flewed.
...-

Sterilization device malfunctions at Sask hospital
http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2007/08/21/4435641-cp.html

*noun
the study of methods of improving genetic qualities by selective breeding (especially as applied to human mating) [ant: cacogenics] (dict-com)

John Cross: check out the link I've mentioned above. See how the AGW stuff stands up. It's a CBC documentary -- can't be wrong.

It's "OvaControl" for geeses.
...-

Take a gander: A pill to control Canada geese North Caldwell man helps develop contraceptive

New Jerseyans have captured, killed, harassed, scared and chased them. Volunteers search out their nests. For the past couple of decades, it's been a pitched battle of humans versus Canada geese for control of golf courses, parks, corporate centers, beach areas and athletic fields statewide. Now, there is a new, non-lethal tool in the fight to cut the Canada geese population: The pill. A North Caldwell man and his California partner have developed a contraceptive that could limit Canada geese births. Just like in humans, Canada geese would have to take a prescribed regular daily dose of the drug and...-
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1884568/posts

For those of you who liked Prof. Rosling's talk, you can experiment with the program he used via this web-based version available here: tools.google.com/gapminder

You can view an animation I created involving Urban Population %, Women in the Labour Force %, Internet Users %, and Population, here (pick Play once it loads): tinyurl.com/3c6f8q

LindaL at August 21, 2007 5:49 PM..

I'm not saying they are or are not but I'm curious to know/see some examples.
The things that I am pointing out:
1) An accredited news agency/org and anyone who works for it should not be making anonymous changes to public information sources.
2) CBC has now taken to publishing criticism of others who've made edits without acknowledging their own.

Even the BBC acknowledged that people in their org have done this!!

The CBC can really fill up a report with anti-American "news" easily...
Audio here:
http://no-libs.com/?p=1963

“Secretive corporate led agenda”
“not only short length, it’s short on detail.”
“boring”
“something more sinister is at hand.”
“threatens Canada’s sovereignty.”
“George W. Bush has said that he too, has heard some of the THEORIES about what some of the leaders are PLOTTING behind closed doors.
“Could dissolve when Bush leaves office”.
“Today, uhhh, he slipped into a Steve, before correcting himself!!! And calling him then, from that point on, the more formal, and certainly familiar, Steven…”

Exit question, how are bulk water shipments evil and bottled water shipments A-O.K???

DrD: TO comment on it I will need to watch it first. I will post comments here tomorrow.

John

OMMAG . . . you can go to the WikiScanner (http://wikiscanner.virgil.gr/) to see examples. I think it's fair to acknowledge that many people in the media . . . music critics, science writers, arts reviewers, sports writers, etc. have good expertise(and most also have good spelling), and I see nothing wrong with their contributing to a public resource. We all benefit if the resource is made more accurate. I also don't think the anonymous thing is a big issue when what we are talking about trivial changes. Changing something to alter its meaning is a different issue, but I have not detected that the CBC has been doing that.

LinadL....
Thanks I did figure that thing out last week...

Without an in depth analysis of the changes I remain unconvinced. I'm willing to admit that the majority of edits are probably innocuous as I have looked and found a large number to be focused on what seems to be personal interest matters.

I do not concede that this is a function of the work for which these people are being paid or that the resources they are using (computers and networks of the CBC) are theirs to do with as they wish.
If any of this is work related I reiterate that staff of an accredited news organization should not be making anonymous public posts on any resource.
I add that since this is a publicly funded news organization much of this activity amounts to abuse of position and public trust.
Is the CBC's job to be participating in this public forum and is it the job of the employees or whoever is using CBC systems to access the Wikipedia. This is NOT research or reporting on their part. It is publishing through other media.

And lastly the CBC has editorialized critically about the behaviour of other organizations in this regard and plainly ignored what their own staff are doing.

Hubris and hypocrisy!

I'm waiting for them to acknowledge that they are involved in this activity.

globalfest in Calgary - spectacular fireworks. so far Canada ,Mexico and Portugal are responsible for global warming.

go ahead John calculate away, you will find that if you burnt all the oil reserves in the world in one minute in a large burner under the pacific ocean you cant raise the temperature by a tenth of a degree.

I came across this old one from unhappier liberal times when they were about to export water

Subsidizing Icebergs
Forbes( September 4, 2000 - pg 114) tells the tale of Iceberg Corp. of America. Iceberg received $400,000 from The Atlantic Canada Opportunities Agency to create 35 jobs. The promoters had tried various ways of harvesting icebergs to make designer water: chainsaws lubricated with vegetable oil; a freighter, crane and net to pick up pieces after the berg crashed on coastal rocks; a tug towing a barge with heated tanks that had once carried molasses. Now searching for a tanker with greater capacity. $5 million raised in a private placement and now trades on the Bulletin Board in the U.S. Moosehead Breweries uses it to make Borealis beer, Commercial Alcohol in Bramption uses it to produce Borealis vodka. Loblaws sells the stuff. Company still loses money: its a long expensive trip to market.

Taliban Jack has Foot in Mouth Again: He is backtracking about the comment that former PM Martin was at the summit, But now he is saying He meant the past summit's.
Yah right

DrD. As promised, I just had a look at the CBC documentary and have a couple of comments that I will outline below. If anyone wants to discuss them in detail I would be happy to do so.

First, it looks a little out of date (I think I recall seeing that it was made in about 2005 or so).

There are two major problems with it that I will talk about and one minor.

The first major problem (at about 12 minutes into it) is that it makes great use of a study by two astronomers; Soon and Baliunas. They collected a huge amount of data about climate proxies and then used it to attempt to demonstrate a global Medieval Warm Period. However their methodology was very poor (we can discuss more if you wish) but essentially the journal that published their paper took the almost unheard of step of printing in the next issue that the data could not support the conclusion and they never should have published the paper. In the process 6 editors resigned because of the poor review processes that let the paper be published. So I would discount their points.

The second problem (at about 20 minutes into it) is that they rely very heavily on the work of John Christy who claims that his observations from satellites show little warming over the earth. There are two main points about this, first Fu showed that the cooling of the stratosphere is causing an artificial cooling in their troposphere record. The second is a small math error in the way they process data. Currently Christy’s data set shows warming similar to what the surface records show.

The minor problem is with the section on sea level rise. At about 27 minutes Morner claims that his research shows that the sea level at the Maldives has fallen by between 30 to 40 cm in the last 30 years. However his group is the only one that finds this. Most of the papers I could find in the peer reviewed literature show an increase of about 4 mm per year.

So, based on the above I would say that it does not provide very strong evidence that there is no AGW.

Regards,
John

So John, are you saying that the science isn't "settled"?

John are you saying there was no medieval warming period? Where was the outrage and firings when Mann's hockey stick was discredited? When Al Gore makes ridiculous exaggerations even for someone who fully support AGW theory, where are the howls?

Seems like a one way street here and naturally this makes people suspicious. BTW, question for you. Does AGW theory say that anthropogenic CO2 loading is more serious than H2O because human activity doesn't increase water in atmosphere, while CO2 is? Not a trick question, I was just curious and had this brainstorm last night.

In any event, validity of AGW theory shouldn't even be an issue at this point. What is crucial is that we have a realistic approach and plan to transitioning out of fossil fuels. We can all agree on that, right?

DrD, it depends on what you mean by the science, but that is another discussion for another day. In regards to this present discussion, you recommended that I watch that clip. I did and posted some comments. Do you agree or disagree with what I posted?

Regards,
John

Shamrock: I have said nothing about whether there was a global MWP or not. But if there was one, then the methodology of S&B would not have discovered it.

In regards to your "non trick question" (I have been tricked by these before on this site) my understanding is that CO2 is considered more serious than H2O because of two factors.

1) CO2 is more persistent than H2O with an atmospheric residency time of decades to centuries as opposed to days for H2O.

2) The level of H2O is controlled by temperature. If things warm up then the atmosphere will be able to hold more moisture. CO2 is not like this and the amount is a function of the production of it.

Regards,
John

John, I believe that surrogate markers for anything always have to be viewed skeptically, including using tree rings as surrogate markers for past temperatures. I'd prefer to rely on historical descriptions and facts (Charles XII marching his armies across the frozen Baltic, Nelson's description of skating parties in Quebec in October, Rye once being one of the Cinque Ports) to gain a better sense of past climate.
If small errors of math can badly skew observational data so as to render it invalid, what more the impact of badly incomplete algorithms on climate models -- global climate models no less. If one cannot develop an algorithm which adequately models precipitation, if one cannot model the monsoon, what stock should one place in computer models which claim to model the entire earth's climate one hundred years into the future? My point is that human CO2 production causing global warming is far from settled, and massive expenditures on public policies with reasonably predictable detrimental economic effects sans any positive effect on a problem which may not even exist, is foolish, wasteful, and squanders resources which could be used to address other social or environmental needs.

DrD, fair enough, but if that is your argument then the CBC documentary does not make a strong case for you. In fact, Christy only mentions the points you made in passing without offering anything of substance.

In regards to the specific points that I mentioned, do you feel that the documentary presents a valid point?

Regards,
John

John Cross, I accept your criticisms of the documentary, in fact I have a couple more of my own which I won't get in to. However, bear in mind that you appear to be the one assigning causality i.e. anthropogenic CO2 production is causing global warming (Am I correct?). Therefore the scientific burden of proof is upon you. Otherwise we make the logical fallacy of the appeal to ignorance i.e. "It's not known therefore you must adopt my position." If we don't know, then we don't know.

DrD: I think we can agree to a certain extent. I realize and accept that there are things we don't know and I will never use the phrase "the science is settled".

I would be willing to say that there are parts of the science that are - to all intents and purposes - settled. For example: 1) we are responsible for the current rise in CO2 and 2) that an increase in CO2 will cause an increase in IR radiation at the earth's surface are well established. So I would say that the case is much stronger than an appeal to ignorance.

Regards,
John

OMMAG . . . I think you miss the point. Correcting actual errors on Wikipedia is hardly an "abuse of position and public trust". If the people at the CBC are not to be making changes during their work day, then presumably no one else should do so either if they are being paid by a particular company, using company resources, etc. (Even though we are probably talking about a 3 minute change . . . I expect more time than that is regularly wasted at the CBC.) So then, anyone who comes across errors on Wikipeida must remember to head back after work hours to make changes. Since this is not likely to happen, the integrity of the Wikipedia goes down. Since many people (including journalists and CBC) use Wikipedia for research,it's important, I think, for everyone to work towards accuracy. In other words, I think it helps all journalists and the broader public good to catch and correct errors. Your approach totally destroys the spirit of cooperation which is essential for Wikipedia to thrive.

John Cross, what contribution to atmospheric rise do you perceive coming from offgassing from the oceans -- (Henry's Law -- as the temperature of a liquid rises the quantitiy of gas dissolved in the liquid decreases)? In other words, couldn't rises in atmospheric CO2 be the effect of ocean warming vs the cause? The oceans are, after all huge CO2 reservoirs.

DrD: at the present time I would say it was 0. If the water warms up sufficiently then it may start to offgas, but we are not there yet. In fact the oceans appear to be acting as a sink.

As I discussed in another thread, you can show that the CO2 from burning fossil fuel is actually more than what shows up in the atmosphere (a simple analysis where you calculate the CO2 from burning X amount of oil). The rest is taken up by the ocean. As I said, this is solid but I can work through the math if you like.

Regards,
John