Remember the good old days when we used to just kill people...

Why are journalists allowed to live?

Those two rounds (not bullets) look like some hunting calibres. My uneducated guess is that they are not 7.62x51 which is standard NATO light machinegun ammunition, but rather commertial hunting ammo.

nice and shiney too, shows up well on the MSM, you would think these boys would be a little more wary of the lies they weave.

oh what a tangled web we weave
when the MSM lies to deceive.

apologies to Bill Shakespear but not to the MSM

One can get a nasty bruise if the bullets are thrown hard enough....

MSM are morons.

As a professional digital retoucher, I can tell you that it's unlikely that the woman is even holding those shells. There are obvious telltale signs of a retouch job with the lighting, colour balance and shadowing on the shells not even closely matching the shot of the woman.

That's not to say I don't think that someone may have been shooting at her or other people like her.

they are not NATO 7.62x51.

Look a lot more like standard 5.56 . . . long neck casing

Note: As Blackfive points out halfway down the page at http://www.blackfive.net/main/2007/08/hmmmm-even-less.html
that this woman sure looks suspiciously like the "Fatima" Reuters stringer anti-Israel photo prop from the last Lebanon war.

Check it out - remarkable and suspect similarity.

And the urban metro sexual Kool Aid swilling Libtards will lap this up for truth.

What were you saying, Kate, about rural people again?

5.56 NATO are not nearly as thick below the bottleneck.
Even if the bullet itself is 22 cal, the cases are larger than 5.56x45, unless the woman has very thin fingers which I doubt.

LMFAO. Come on all you leftards, try and defend this piece of wonderful journalism. I think the old girl should do what is expected of her. Human shield for some islamof@#$sticks. Then her duty will have been done. GO ARMY!

Run! The imperialists are throwing bullets at us!

/please collect your cheques after prayers

.223 and .308, both milspec.

This reminds me of the photo a year or two ago of the Afghan elder posing beside a reported dud bomb that had been dropped on/near his house. Knowledgeable readers soon pointed out the object in question was an artillery shell of unknown origin. MSM at its finest.

Mojo - they weren't fired from a weapon, which is what she is claiming and even I could find cartridges like that anywhere in Iraq. A little polishing and even I could make them look just like they came from an abandoned magazine. Hell, is that even her hand?

this woman sure looks suspiciously like the "Fatima" Reuters stringer anti-Israel photo prop from the last Lebanon war

I thought the same thing too. Maybe there is a central casting agency that the MSM slobs covering the ME use. Fatima and her extended family are probably under contract. All of the wire services rely heavily on local stringers in the ME, sort of like having German civilians during WWII cover Germany for them.

The spent bullets are in more pristine shape than her jewelry, a five year old could have spotted this fraud.

She's holding two identical rounds that look like softpoints.

What occurs to me is this picture made it through the editorial maze without a single person grasping the fundamental incongruence between the picture and the caption. Nobody at the AFP who is associated with this story knows what an unfired round, or a spent round, looks like? It's unbelievable.

I truely think all you here missed sumthing very important

those ARE kanadian military rounds that HAVE been fired

because of our GREEN policies, all military rounds must now be of such quality that they can be picked up after firing and reincerted into military weapon and "recycled", thusly reducing their carbon foot print!!!!!

This is what they look like BEFORE she shoots them into her mattress and calls up the NYT. Duhhhhhhhooooooooooooooo !!!!!!!!

The good folks at AFP are being fitted for new hats. They do know how to spell "dunce" I hope.

Can't blame MSM's they fear guns and I wouldn't be surprised if not one person at the CBC has ever fired one.

doug Laxdal After your post I went back to check the photos. You're right it is noticable when you look for it.

I guess the MSM gun haters think everyone is as ignorant about firearms technology as they are.

These are unfired "CARTRIDGES" not spent bullets....they didn't even have the knowledge to photoshop 2 cartridge types that are in use in that region...one looks like a .220 swift or a .22-250 varmint round the other looks to be a .222 mag not the 5,56mm us ball ammo or the 7.62mm Russian that could be lying around a battle site unfired.

Sheltered leftbot ignorance on full display here.

You laugh -- I've been hit by an ejected casing from the FN and it hurts! What more if they still have the bullet and the powder in them???!! Besides, how do we know they're not covered in lead paint? If someone were to chew on several hundred of them they could come down with lead poisoning!!! Those things could hurt someone -- jeeeez, you guys!

"Can't blame MSM's they fear guns and I wouldn't be surprised if not one person at the CBC has ever fired one."

Oh... we've fired guns. Usually it's to do with a drug-deal gone bad, or just to make good gun-owning Canadians look bad.

Re this photo... boy nobody can put anything past you guys! Unless it's the president of the United States who continue to fools you, or the Medical insurance lobbyists who've convinced you that American-style medicine (with it's 40 million uninsured citizens) is desirable, or the oil companies who continue to try and disprove global warming so they can continue to reap huge profits, or the US military who continues to try and tell you that they might win this war, but other than that... NOBODY can put anything past you guys!

Brings to mind the Afghan holding an unexploded artillery round beside the wreckage of a hovel bombed by the USAF where several terrorists were dispatched to paradise.

One wonders whether Reuters & the MSM really believe us to be that stupid and gullible... until one has a chance conversation with a leftard and they demonstrate the vapidity of their mind-set.

i'm going with the dudes at Blackfive who say 7.62x39 or 223 Remington.from what i remember i favour 7.62x39 the ak-47's best friend. c.j.g. of eroticalee.

I don't think that the hand holding the unshot bullets belongs to the woman in the background. Looks like the hand is superimposed on the background of that woman. The kid who wrote the caption was very young and not too bright, IMO.

Aaron: NATO LMGs are 5.56mm, aren't they (M-249)? 7.62x51 being for the Mediums (M-240)?

My immediate suspicion was 5.45x39, but the neck angle is too sharp.

Jema: I think it's the same hand, but with perspective distortion (of size) and shallow depth-of-field. (Both perfectly normal photographic effects, and honestly, the photograph as such is well done.)

Both rounds are the same calibre, only the lighting difference caused by the angle makes them appear different. If I had to guess, I'd say they're 7.62 NATO, although it's really irrelevant anyway. All I saw was "An elderly Iraqi woman shows two bullets which she says hit her house..." and I nearly pissed myself laughing.

Another low point for the MSM and a mistake reflecting a stupendous degree of stupidity.

My impression is that the cartridges in quesion are standard military .223 rounds. A quick measurement on a .223 round that just happened to be in my pocket reveals the bullet to protrude by 12 mm and the case neck to be 8 mm long giving a bullet/neck ratio of 1.5. On my screen, for the leftmost cartridge, I get bullet length of 4 mm and case neck length of 3 mm which given bullet/neck = 1.33 (close enough for me). Also, if you compare the size of the cartridge to the hand it looks like a .223. A higher resolution photograph would help sort this out but I'm sure this is a picture that the MSM is likely going to want to make disappear as quickly as possible.

File under: 'How bloody stupid do the MSM think we are?'

Anyone remember Bugs Bunny vs the Scotsman? Said the Scotsman after shooting and retrieving his bullets, "It's bin in ma family ferrrr yearrrrs".

It seems from seebeesee's comment that the credibility of the photograph and its caption are largely irrelevant to most leftists anyway. The photograph and story fits the approved narrative therefore it is "fake but true". Never mind that the ability to determine "true" is itself predicated upon a weighing of hard facts including, one would hope, credible eyewitness accounts and photographic evidence passed through a chain of impartial collators and analysts (reporters and editors). That this photograph, in addition to other blatantly fake/forged pieces of disinformation can be so easily passed through the news agencies throws into serious doubt one's ability to rely on these sources and channels for the very information and facts needed as the basis for ascertaining the "truth". But this is itself a very conservative viewpoint, because for the leftist "truth" is not gleaned from a reading of the facts and the accumulation of evidence, "truth" is simply out there. It's a belief system, and as long as the items offered up as evidence fit the belief system then they are by leftist definition "true" whether or not they represent events that actually occured. Likewise their belief in anthropogenic global warming. The fact that the very data points which allow one to determine whether or not global warming is in fact occuring (let alone whether or not it is man-made) may be seriously flawed is of no consequence to the leftist. Human beings living on the planet are "bad", AGW is "proof" of it and therefore a series of seriously flawed baseline data points is irrelevant.

Thankfully an opportunity was missed; the caption writer could have as easily claimed with as little proof that the old lady found live rounds dropped by careless American troops where her grandchildren picked them up and were playing 'hit the shiny thing with a hammer' when she intervened - a situation far harder to disprove (to non-experts) than the nonsense about these being bullets that hit her house, and as likely to provoke chest-beating, wailing and teeth-gnashing on the left.

Maybe by tomorrow, the narrative will have changed.

I doubt they are 7.62 rounds, they're about 1/3 the diameter of the womans index finger, which would make her finger just under an inch in diameter. It's possible her fingers are that big, but I doubt it. More likely they're .22 caliber rounds, which would make her fingers around 5/8" diameter, somewhat more plausible. They also carry a close resemblance to the 52 gr. BTHP re-loads for my .22-.250.

DrD - you don't post here enough. Your insights and descriptive skills are superb.

Actually, the photo could be 'two photos'. There's the old photo of the EveryIraqiOldWoman, which is dragged up whenever needed.

Superimposed on that photo, is someone's hand, holding the two cartridges.

...easy to explain - those were dud shells which didn't explode after being dropped by an Israeli F-16 during Ramadingdong.

There, now back to Photoshopping class everyone.

This is so patently stupid, somebody should copyright it.
How does this exaxtly spell, 'two bullets she says hit her house', one wonders where is the soldier that spent his spare time to polish the two pieces of ammunition in order to throw them at the womans house.
Is this redilulous or what, and brouth to you by supposedly educated 'journalis', employed by a supposedly major press agency.

After a longer look at the pictured ammo, you will notice that the two pieces are different the colour of the right one is brass and copper, the otherone is brass and something much lighter than copper.

The closest looking round in my collection is 7mm Rem Mag. They do look like magnum calibres from the neck angle, don't they? Next, NATO FMJ bullets are much sharper - these look like rounded softpoint ammo. $20 says these are hunting rounds.

Jeez that's embarrassing for the AFP. It's blatantly obvious that those 2 bullets are still in their casings.

Yeesh. What a bunch of (leftist) morons.

Its obvious to even a five year old that those bullets are still "bullets" and not spent shells. If she wants to give them to me I would gladly "spend" them but I doubt that she would like the result.

Its obvious to even a five year old that those bullets are still "bullets" and not spent shells. If she wants to give them to me I would gladly "spend" them but I doubt that she would like the result.

"The photograph and story fits the approved narrative therefore it is "fake but true"."

Don't tell me what I said.

I have no idea what's going on behind this photo, but before going on on some wild conspiracy theory, we should consider that it could be something as simple as an error with the translation.

But all this is beside the point. The right goes into a tizzy over the littlest mistake in the media, all while ignoring the huge, HUUUUUGE mistakes made by the retarded elephant in the living room that is the current administration occupying the White House.

It's pretty obvious that a major shitstorm went down in Iraq, and all you losers can talk about is some screwed up photo caption. You are so insane with conservatism, that you are mad at reality for not being as you wish.

Even if there was commie spy behind this photo, it still wouldn't change the fact that Bush lied to take the US to war, that said war was fucked up by GOP incompetence (even when they could have won it), and now they have no idea how to wrap it up.

Fine by me. My only hope is that all of these Iraqis didn't die for nothing, and that this failure will result in this current bout of conservatism ending up in the toilet where it belongs.

Then Liberals can step in and as screwed up as we might be, we'll clean up this mess you idiots have made of things.

Sorry about the double post, Kate, but I got this wierd message that I could not post because I had posted "too manmy times recently" which is nonsense. I've now posted twice this evening. What gives?

"Its obvious to even a five year old that those bullets are still "bullets" and not spent shells. If she wants to give them to me I would gladly "spend" them but I doubt that she would like the result."

You go! You go kill that old lady you brave man you!

"Then Liberals can step in and as screwed up as we might be, we'll clean up this mess you idiots have made of things."

R O T F L M A O !

we should consider that it could be something as simple as an error with the translation.

Hey, Fatima didn't caption the photo, she doesn't work at the news desk, AFP editors do. A translation error doesn't take stupid out of the equation.

What's at issue here is the integrity of the media. You don't seem to get that. But, then, I don't think that's relevant to you.

My only hope is that all of these Iraqis didn't die for nothing

And before Saddam's demise they were dying for SOMETHING? I don't think the Kurds and Shiia would agree. As we speak, Iraqis have been dying WITH Americans against a common terrorist enemy. Think you can hold that thought, "with" being the operative word.

If that's too much for you, default back to the CBC for guidance on how to think.

SeeBeeSee
The right goes into a tizzy over the littlest mistake in the media
The "mistakes" are constant, always in one direction & compound the persistent bias shown by the media. They have to be highlighted because they are quite irrefutable whereas the general charge of bias requires more concentration than liberals can muster.

Bush lied That's a lie as you cannot know that for sure.

It's pretty obvious that a major shitstorm went down in Iraq..
Well the defeat of Saddam was actually pretty painless. The insurgency is the problem. Now, the opposition to the war by people like you and your favourite power countries with business interests in Iraq, caused the following:
- delayed the war and gave Saddam time to set up the insurgency and hide any WMD he may have had.
- changed the original attack plan for the war that would have reduced the potential for insurgency.
- encouraged local and foreign actors to resist democracy in the hope of gaining power in the knowledge that US will would be worn out before their's.

To whatever extent Iraq is a mess, those who encouraged opposition once it was clear the US was going anyway, share the blame.

Time for a CSI: MSM

Even if they haven't been spent - these shells could take out an eye.

You'd think that someone would figure out it cheaper to throw rocks than shells ... would also have a more predictable trajectory.

What we really need -- as this article makes abundantly clear -- is a Bullet Registry.

there are two parts to a round, the bullet and the casing. So the firing pin hits the casing, the bullet and casing separte ...those bullet's are holding hit your house you say?

"The "mistakes" are constant, always in one direction & compound the persistent bias shown by the media"

I guess you've never been to Media Matters, which documents scores of the rightwing bias every single day.

"That's a lie as you cannot know that for sure."

Well gee... the White House sure went out of it's way to hide all of the evidence that countered their charges. Hell... they even outed a CIA agent just to attack her husband who called them out on their fabrication.

As for other Bush lies... go here:

http://www.bushlies.net/

And dude... to blame the fuckuppery that has gone on since the war began on those who opposed it is absolutely insane. It demonstrates that you and other conservatives are so pathetic that you can't even accept that you've made mistakes.

It indicates that you none of you have any business running governments. Hell... I wouldn't trust you to run down to the supermarket, and not fuck it up.

First of all, Bush blew it by invading. Period.

BUT... if he was going to invade and occupy under false pretenses, the least the idiot could have done was to do it right.

A) They lacked the troops to control the country
B) The torture scandal fucked them completely. This was pure incompetence.
C) They handed the economy over to a 24 year old who was a faithful GOP operative. Fucking incredible that one was. No wonder it failed.
D) They basically turned the rebuilding of Iraq over the the blessed "free market". The lack of oversight has lead to fraud on a scale never before seen in human history, AND a failing infrastructure.
E) They dumped the army, thereby turning many of the former soldiers loose as the insurgency.
F) They fired many Baathist administrators who should have been kept on, if only because they knew what the fuck they were doing.

Stop blaming the failure on anybody else but Bush. He had full control of the Congress, the Senate, the judiciary and the White House. There is nobody to blame but himself... oh... and actually all those who support him.

The Buck stops right the fuck here. Choke on it.

Skip, nice picture!

For SeeBeeSee and the rest of you uneducated Liberal types,

A)those are not standard NATO hardball rounds as far as I can see. Closest I can think of would be 5.45 x39 Russian-style shorty rounds for a Krinkov. Check out the neck on that case, that's a pretty big step.

How do I know? Google, dudes. Look it up.

B)One of the big problems soldiers are having down there is the concrete-like construction of the houses. 5.56 NATO from the M16 can't penetrate the walls, 7.62 NATO from the squad level machine guns does a bit better but you have to put a bunch of rounds on the same spot to get through. When they want to reach out and whack somebody they call for a .50 caliber machine gun or a sniper with a Barrett.

//www.barrettrifles.com/

Or a tank.

C) those are unfired. You can tell because of the big brass thing attached to the back of the teeny little bullet.

Bottom line, if Magic Bullet Lady was living in a standard issue house, even had those cartridges been fired those bullets were not going to make it into her mattress except through a window.

Now get out there and take some shooting lessons.

Thank you for your kind words Penny.

Richard, don't say that. They nearly had one in California before Ahhhnold became King down there. They were going to laser cut a number onto every single friggin' bullet AND casing, I kid you not.

Lucky it all came to a well deserved end when some accountant figured out what it would cost to track all that.

I'm thinking they're both 5.56 Nato (.223). When I was scanning the three above, you could hold the 223 at an angle that gave it the same big shouldered look.

(Disclosure for gun grabbers and leftards: The presence of a cartridge labeled "AK-47" isn't evidence of possession of "terrorist" weapons by civvies - the 7.62x39 is used by several non-restricted firearms in Canada. Anyways, terrorist weapons are strap-on bombs and mainstream media, and the apparently incestuously related, brainwashed leftards).

Skip' you sure that doesn't looked like a necked down 7.62x39 Russian? The newer ammo isn't all that Soviet era copper-washed steel crap, they switched to brass for the 5.45 stuff I heard. (Could be wrong, I haven't been keeping up. Can't get Guns 'N Ammo at Chapters, y'know.)

I have heard of cases where journalists had gang members pose with guns just for a dramatic photo this is yellow journalism

I think the bullets, complete with cartridges, came from the U of T gun club, the one the leftards closed down. Wasn't Fatima seen on campus?

These rounds both appear to be .223/5.56mm, the same as used in the M16/C7 and the M249/C9, but they ALSO appear to be 55-grain M193 ball rounds, which aren't issued to NATO forces anymore; current-issue ammo is the M855 or SS109-equivalent semi-AP round, which have a longer ogive and stick further out of the case (and are usually marked with a green tip). Regardless, these couldn't have been "fired" at her house.

Maybe they were having a pitched battle, pitching/tossing bullets at houses.

Has it come down to this, our network can't afford photographers so they dig up an old picture to fit the tale they're reporting?

SDC, aren't tungsten penetrators the ones with the green tip? Red for tracer, green for penetrator, plain for ball?

Possible gap in my gourd there?

No, the green tip was just an identifier for "semi-AP", as the steel forward core in the bullet is just mild steel; the design for the M855 was taken from the Belgian SS109 round, and NATO has now moved over to that round entirely, because it has better penetration (the US calls their version "M855", Canada calls their version "C77", and so on). The round the US was using BEFORE the M855 was the 55-grain M193 ball, which is what the woman in the photo appears to be holding. These are still plentiful and readily available from commercial sources. The identifier for 5.56mm tracers IS a red tip, and the current US designation for those is "M856".

Thanks, that clears things up. Don't want to mix up the identifiers, that could lead to an owwie.

These cartridges look like hunting rounds with over capacity cases. The photo is not that clear, but the bullet tips are silver and not sharp pointed. The shoulder of the case looks to have too sharp of an angle for a military round and the bullet diameter seems about 2 1/2 times smaller than the case. The case walls are too straight; there is not the usual more pronounced (conical) taper found in military rounds. There would likely be feeding and stuck case problems if this ammo was used in an automatic rifle.
Just an opinion on what I see.

maybe they cant afford guns and have taken the palestinian rock throwing to a new level, throwing cartridges.

They don't look like 5.56 NATO to me. Case is too thick, and the shoulder angle is too steep. However, they do look an awful lot like the 6.8 SPC round I'm holding in my hand right now. It's generally a hunting round, but is occassionally used by some military units, predominantly SpecOps.

Regardless, they would still need to actually have been fired at some point to have had some relationship to the original caption.

Unless someone threw them real hard ... ;-)

As usual the leftards are completely incapable of seeing the POINT.....the story is bogus ... the picture is faked ..... and the MSM tools run with it like nothing is out of the ordinary.

Acceptance of things like this is the evidence of your mental deficiency. Defending things like this is why you are mocked!
Also goes a long way to explaining why your politics lean the way they do .... stupid is as stupid does.