Looks like PETA has been in england pushing its rediclous vagan ideas to their parlament of jerks that looks like the end for bangers and fish and chips to be replaced with some god awful vegetarian puke paste SCREW PETA

Good luck with that. My understanding is that the meal of choice for the lads at the footy matches is a cup of Bovril and a meat pie.

4-4-2 magazine used to run a contest for the "King Pie" of all the stadia in England.

Certainly, in the western world we have unhealthy diets that have far too much of a focus on meat but this is crazy ...

It is one thing to try to encourage people to reduce the ammount of meat they eat inorder to become healthier, it is another thing to try to force people into a potentially unhealthy lifestyle in order to solve an environmental problem which may or may not be a problem ...

(Note: Vegan lifestyles can be very healthy but it typically requires a far better understanding of nutrition than most people have)

"The real mystery remaining is why the British public continues to tolerate the smothering encroachment of this uber-nannystate into every aspect of their lives."

Drugs, alcohol, teachers and welfare!

Why?

Because the nannystaters have a REALLY GOOD propaganda campaign, that's why. Every time the papers come up with some new FUD (fear, uncertainty and doubt) series about cell phones, cancer causing broccoli, crime, traffic, global friggin' warming or whatever, the Labour gubmint announces a new program to Fix It Right Now.

Oddly, all the fixes seem to involve increased monitoring, increased taxation and decreased individual freedom. But hey, small price to pay ! What use is personal freedom if you're going to die from deadly cellphone radiation or red meat poisoning?

Wonder if they'll let it get to the point where they get their urine automatically sampled by the plumbing and DNA matched to their national ID card? You know, to make sure they haven't strayed from their nationally mandated no-meat diet or had an illicit ciggy?

"The potential benefit of a STARVATION diet in terms of climate impact could be very significant."

EAT VEGETARIANS!

Pork roast sandwich for breakfast, salmon marinade for lunch and pork roast leftovers for dinner... Umm! Pike off, vegans!

Just learned something about strict vegetarians: they need a B6/B12 vitamin injection once a year. That's right - screw up your diet, get hooked up on vitamin injections and the doctor is going to bill the government. Wonderful solution!

Two legs bad.

The levellers, aka socialism.
...-

Raising hands in class discouraged

LONDON (Reuters) - Pupils should not be encouraged to put up their hands to answer questions in the classroom because it could harm shy children, the Education Department advised teachers on Friday....-
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1843017/posts

The Brits are getting euroweenied into submission, part of the Blair plan, and the Conservatives aren't much better, sorta like our Harper bunch. "Bangers" have disappeared from Bangers and Mash, it's now sausage and mash (banger offended some eurocrat somewhere). There is a move by some Labour MPs to rename Trafalgar Square, apparently the French are upset by 'Trafalgar' where their navy got whupped. The island is being swamped by immigrants from the new eastern entrants to the EU, some 500,000 last year alone. Gasoline costs over 2 dollars C per litre, there is a congestion charge to drive in London and a move to charge drivers based on distance using mandatory GPS transponders in cars. Recycling fees, penalties are common and a carbon tax on air fares is coming. On the bright side, for us at least, I'm noticing decidedly more British accents amongst the professional staff at my doctor's clinic.

I think Britain puts up with it because of natural selection.

The Brits who would be disinclined to put up with such nonsense left several generations ago. They were the risk takers, the ones who wanted freedom, and they came to North America or Australia.

The ones left behind were the ones who were afraid of change or afraid to be left to their own devices. It's a generalization, of course, but I think there's some merit to it. Europe has sent its entrepreneurs, freedom lovers, and risk takers abroad over the last century. So the reason they aren't like us is because they aren't like us. We are not the same. It's that simple.

Hoping that mark peters from the linked thread that I can't reply to visits this one:

I assure you that there are quite many more good men between now and completely disarmed Canada than you might think.
Miller/McSquinty handgun ban proposal resulted in skyrocketing sales of handguns in GTA, Ontario. Since then gun business is booming, many join the ranges and bring their kids out shooting.

On the other hands there have been several strange arrests of gun collectors for dubious reasons across the country and their large collections were confiscated. The shooting crowd is convinced that the govt is targeting large collections, specially of 12(x) guns and is removing them where it sees an opportunity. We are far behind the UK in being disarmed, but they are working on it.

Get a PAL and take your family shooting - screw the socialists!

Is this all of the UK or just London, as this quote:
The "spit kits" are already supplied at all 275 Tube stations and are expected to be rolled out this summer across London's 7,000-strong bus fleet.

It is the latest initiative against anti-social behaviour on buses and has coincided with the Mayor's introduction of free bus travel for under-16s.

Lets get real
London is not Blairs England anymore than Millers Toronto is Canada. London is run by a mayor called red Ken Livingstone, a failed labour supporter who is a CARD CARRYING COMMUNIST.
I was not a labour supporter when I lived in the UK, but do you want everyone to judge Canada alongside Toronto or Queerbec.

I'm beginning to wonder if change is possible without a revolution. Perhaps a purge is in order.

It won't happen though. The limeys keep voting for their oppression. It's like stockholm syndrom.

Idiots.

The real mystery remaining is why the British public continues to tolerate the smothering encroachment of this uber-nannystate into every aspect of their lives."

Drugs, alcohol, teachers and welfare!

Posted by: Onna Dole at June 1, 2007 10:29 AM

Oh CANADUUUU

"The real mystery remaining is why the British public continues to tolerate the smothering encroachment of this uber-nannystate into every aspect of their lives."

Drugs, alcohol, teachers and welfare!

Posted by: Onna Dole at June 1, 2007 10:29 AM

Oh CANADUUUUUUUUUUU

Vegans need B6/B12 vitamin injection because otherwise they go psychotic.

Paul Watson of Sea Shepherd also recommends the vegan diet in addition to eliminating 5 billion people worldwide.

'We need to radically and intelligently reduce human populations to fewer than one billion.'

http://www.seashepherd.org/editorials/editorial_070504_1.html

'Preferably vegan and vegetarian diets can be adopted.'

"I was once severely criticized for describing human beings as being the “AIDS of the Earth.” I make no apologies for that statement. Our viral like behaviour can be terminal both to the present biosphere and ourselves. We are both the pathogen and the vector. But we also have the capability of being the anti-virus if only we can recognize the symptoms and address the disease with effective measures of control."

'Curing a body of cancer requires radical and invasive therapy, and therefore, curing the biosphere of the human virus will also require a radical and invasive approach'

Yes what type of vegan anti viral agent does Paul have in mind?

Move over Mao, Stalin and Hitler, vegan Paul Watson will show you how its really done right!

I believe I posted this under tips yesterday but not to worry...I'm glad it made big print...this kind of statist idiocy has to be exposed.

It is not just the UK that is getting "creepy" with any number of dicatorial machinations of the micro managed fully serveilled anthill society...thay are just more advanced down the rabbit hole (or "ant" hole as it were)than we are..we are following but at a reserved pace so as not to alarm Canadians and Americans who are used to a lot more freedoms and repect from their government than Euros are.

We have the same statist termites gnawing away at our freedoms here in Canada...I am ashamed to say unabated by a change in government and under the Harper watch.

http://www.canada.com/edmontonjournal/news/story.html?id=6d8beaea-454e-4ace-a9e2-444823b13d11&k=75853

"The next step in border security is DNA in passports, report warns

Canadians will inevitably have to carry travel documents with their DNA, biometrics or other biological identifiers embedded into them in order to travel to the United States, according to a new white paper to be revealed to government officials in Ottawa today.

While many travellers and governments are frantically trying to comply with current border regulations that require passports for air travel, the report warns that’s just one step in the movement toward more secure borders.

In order to adequately confirm an individual’s identity and speed up the process of screening passengers, governments will surely move to enhanced identity documents that use biological information to identity travellers, the paper says."

>>> That’s right folks, the elites want you to believe that the Orwellian Surveillance Society is inevitable they sell this as "feedom" but the reality is more Orwellian...Biblcal even...essentially your freedom to travel, trade or woerk is restricted unless you surrender persoan biodata to track you the the government ant "take their mark".

I hate to think what will happen to anyone forcing me under threat to take this mandated tracking ID.

The Brits have always been rather liberal so they seem to soak up such ideas quite easily.

The Mayor of London is after all Ken Livingston, an extreme leftie who is determined to drag Western civilization into the ground. He was the same man who made apologies for the terrorists when London was bombed.

Also I think the new generation has been brainwashed, starting in school, to never to question anything that the nanny state says.

For example we were travelling once in Boston with my 7 year old nephew, and we took him down to the water to see an old battleship that was docked there, but he refused to go on it.

Naturally I asked him why: "Because wars are bad and guns are bad and I don't want to go on it."

What 7 year old boy doesn't want to explore a large battleship?

It was weird.

I believe I posted this under tips yesterday but not to worry...I'm glad it made big print...this kind of statist idiocy has to be exposed.

It is not just the UK that is getting "creepy" with any number of dicatorial machinations of the micro managed fully serveilled anthill society...thay are just more advanced down the rabbit hole (or "ant" hole as it were)than we are..we are following but at a reserved pace so as not to alarm Canadians and Americans who are used to a lot more freedoms and repect from their government than Euros are.

We have the same statist termites gnawing away at our freedoms here in Canada...I am ashamed to say unabated by a change in government and under the Harper watch.

http://tinyurl.com/34phgy

"The next step in border security is DNA in passports, report warns

Canadians will inevitably have to carry travel documents with their DNA, biometrics or other biological identifiers embedded into them in order to travel to the United States, according to a new white paper to be revealed to government officials in Ottawa today.

While many travellers and governments are frantically trying to comply with current border regulations that require passports for air travel, the report warns that’s just one step in the movement toward more secure borders.

In order to adequately confirm an individual’s identity and speed up the process of screening passengers, governments will surely move to enhanced identity documents that use biological information to identity travellers, the paper says."

>>> That’s right folks, the elites want you to believe that the Orwellian Surveillance Society is inevitable they sell this as "feedom" but the reality is more Orwellian...Biblcal even...essentially your freedom to travel, trade or woerk is restricted unless you surrender persoan biodata to track you the the government ant "take their mark".

I hate to think what will happen to anyone forcing me under threat to take this mandated tracking ID.

I will become concerned about DNA in my passport (which I don't have) after they fingerprint and DNA test all illegal immigrants who run across the desert and swim across Rio Grande. Then I will stop visiting the US, they obviously don't need money I spend there.

Hans what are you suggesting, that the world's population grow without bound?

I think all this global warming rubbish, becoming vegans, etc. is silly. But the evidence is clear that humans are stresing the planet (look at fish stocks as just one example), and most of that stress can be attributed to (1) too large a population (2) that wants too much in the way of manufactured goods.

This notion of endless economic growth, which really has to be tied to population growth to succeed, is a bit of a Ponzi scheme, and at some point some generation down the road is going to get stuck with the bill.

DNA spit kits to track down dirty spit prone Brits? Good for public health.

The French move towards keeping your lungs healthier by introducing new streamlined busses that run on non-poluting . . . *compressed air*.

Some Paris taxi-cabs run on it now.

http://BendGovernment.blogspot.com

= TG

NOTE: Vegan lifestyles are not healthy, or sustainable long term. Take note of the fact that there are no vegan societies; never have been, never will be. Also take note of the recent cases of vegans starving their own children; the breast milk of a vegan mother is insufficient in nutritional value, and soy milk most definitely does not cut.

We are omnivores, deal with it. Cutting meat out of your diet is equally as dangerous as cutting out vegetables.

Never met a vegan that did not look like death warmed over.
Without meat man would still be naked and swinging from the trees, perhaps Britain wants to take the multi-cult milkshake experiment for breeding back to our origins even further and starve themselves back to apehood LOL.
Insanity thy name is Britaion.

Rue Britannia, sigh.

Hey TJ,

If humanity is such a bad thing, feel free not to breed. If you still think this is not enough, Dr. Death just got out of jail... Just saying.

If God didn't want us to eat animals then why did He make them out of meat?

"The potential benefit of a STARVATION diet in terms of climate impact could be very significant."

EAT VEGETARIANS!

Care for some Soylent Green, anyone?

I agree that countless enterprising folks bailed back when the upper tax rate was 90%, etc.

The famous British nanny state is much to blame. but how did it get so entrenched in the first place?

For all the talk of British bravery during the Blizt: how much of their stoicism was simply post-Depression business as usual, just with lots of noise at night? Paul Weller of the Jam grew up in a house without an indoor toilet, and he's what? 50? It's not like they had that much going on anyway.

I'm not 100% that the Brits of WW2 (Dunkirk excepted) were brave and resourceful so much as they were resigned, and happy following orders from authorities.

Yes it is fiction, but the film It Happened Here imagines a Britain beaten by the Nazis and not really that upset about it, just happy to have a little peace and quiet with their cuppa tea. I for one found it chillingly convincing.

For those who might need to know: Murray N. Rothbard on the Ethics of Bribery.

O Tempora, O Mores!

DNA spit kits?

Shouldn't they be focusing on the 'urinating in the streets, when the pubs let out issues?'

Warwick what kind an argument is that? Where did I say humanity was a bad thing?

Got three kids so hopefully I'm doing my part to keep it going.

But some must indeed think it's a bad thing given declining birth rates in most Western countries.

TJ, I'm sure there is an upper limit to economic growth out there waiting. Just like there's a limit to Moore's Law, somewhere.

However the notion that government as we know it, democratic or tyranny take you pick, has the power to turn humanity aside from such growth is pure fantasy.

Think Canute vs. the tide.

Britain is busily demonstrating that exact thing with all this Big Brother crap. Lots of noise and tire smoke, no forward motion.

ah, just finished my dead cow and aborted chickens(steak and eggs).....yummy!!!!but since I run 4 miles, 3 time a week, the body craves it....if I tried my excercise routine on a vegan diet, I am sure I would collapse in the middle of the street...I can say one thing 4 sure...I may put up with their seatbelt/helmut(sorry Kate) bulls#$%, but if some idiot gov't moron ever tries to tell me what to eat.....WAR!

... "and happy following orders from authorities."

My wife is English, and I have to admit, the one thing about her and her family is that there is not one law/bylaw/general rule that they dare not follow.

It drives me up the wall - there's absolutely no sense of "the law's an ass," or "the government exists for me, and not the other way 'round," or even "that's so not important."

"Just learned something about strict vegetarians: they need a B6/B12 vitamin injection once a year. That's right - screw up your diet, get hooked up on vitamin injections and the doctor is going to bill the government. Wonderful solution!"

There are plenty of other ways to get B6 and B12 - no need for an injection. All kinds of very common foods (including foods eaten by strict vegetarians) are fortified with these vitamins. Failing that, you can buy a little bottle of either at the drugstore, just like you can buy calcium or vitamin C.

If you eat like most people in Canada - or, even worse, the U.S. - you are in no position to criticize anyone else's diet.

exile,

we'll let you try the vegan BS. I'm eating ribs and steak as often as possible. Wings on occasion.

If you need vitamin suppliments it's because you don't eat right. Nature decrees we are omnivores. We eat meat cause we're supposed to.

And in case you didn't know it, Canada has caught up to the US and the much of europe (except the chain-smoking frogs) are not too far behind.

Yes, the dreaded Standard American Diet, which has more people living healthier and far longer than ever before, must be replaced.

We must follow the vegan diet, and all the infants that die on it will reduce population. It’s a win-win, people.

And, in case you did not know, vegetarians and vegans do NOT live longer; they just look old.

Kathy, I guess then the real question is, were Churchill and Thatcher deviations from the norm?

The Brits had it together at one time, a handful of them crushed the French at Agincourt. They could keep an empire together with an iron fist when needed. Socialism is the only force I can account for that could have turned their descendants into timid furry creatures.

The British elite have always loved Marxism, Kim Philby and that group of spies were a product of Cambridge. It's still rabidly Marxist.

Like most of us here, I find it impossible to grasp the inner workings of a lobotomized socialist sheeple's mind. The Brits seem to be willing to surrender every thing but their house keys so far. Ironically, we have English Common Law as our legacy because they refused trepassing by the King.

No, exile, I don't eat like anyone else. I am highly sensitive to MSG, free processed gluten. Tiny amounts of it give me joint and muscle pain and other problems. My wife has the same sensitivity but in milder form and we passed it onto our kids. This only became visible in Canada after we lived here for several years.
It's so bad that if I eat any common foods life will be miserable for a month.
We are only buying raw ingredients, nothing enriched, processed, hydrogenated or hydrolyzed.
We bake our own bread, make sausages, ham and salami. The only thing my wife is refusing is laying eggs according to her.
We can't even eat some vegetables as they are rinsed in MSG solution to protect them from rotting and mold. As there are no labels, I learn it a hard way - thru the weeks of excrucinating pain.
The Japanese got even with America their own covert way, didn't they? Thank you professor Ikeda, rot in hell!
http://www.jpo.go.jp/seido_e/rekishi_e/kikunae_ikeda.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ajinomoto

"exile, if you need vitamin suppliments it's because you don't eat right. Nature decrees we are omnivores. We eat meat cause we're supposed to."

My point was that B6 and B12 injections are not necessary for anyone. I didn't say that I or anyone else needed vitamin supplements, though, in fact, most people do.

"And in case you didn't know it, Canada has caught up to the US and the much of europe (except the chain-smoking frogs) are not too far behind."

No, not quite. We are still somewhat less inclined to have coke and donuts for breakfast, for example, and our obesity levels are somewhat lower. Obesity levels (and junkfood consumption) in Europe are lower than those in Canada. But certainly the levels are rising in the US, Canada, and Europe.

arron- the socialists will have to be disposed of. a purge is in order. wlm- you realize the breaucrats are in charge and most candians are socialists. tj- the world is indeed a finite piece of dirt. we will soon be following the same stupid people down the same stupid path unless the minority takes control.

Another big problem with a strict vegetarian diet is lack of protein especially with kids.

"The potential benefit of a vegan diet in terms of climate impact could be very significant."

Is there no end to the climate hysteria? why is there no mention of the of the benefit to humans in eating a vegan diet? Could it be because there is none?

While mulling over the prevalence of items of this sort, I wondered if the most successful ploy in modern politics is proposing an unreasonable idea in a reasonable tone, with reasonable-sounding arguments surrounding it. Doing so often provokes the reasonable person to act unreasonably, which makes it a neat misdirection trick.

(I suspect this ploy has been used as long as democracy itself, but it used to be shot down by our wiser forebears. This wisdom is now known as "bigotry," thanks to the inevitable, if occasional, mistakes that result from sensible line-drawing.)

I'd like to think that Britain is now like it is because all the smart people left. I came here as a child from England. My Grand parents lived there all their lives (except for the retirement to Spain for My mom's parents), but every one of their kids emigrated in the sixties. I now have family in Canada, the U.S., Australia and France.

I spent almost two years in England when I was in the army, and I think for the most part they are completely oblivious to what is going on around them. Its the old put a frog in a pail of water and boil it scenario. We're not that different here. When You look at what it was like here for children growing up in the sixties and seventies, compared to now, you realize our world has also changed beyond all recognition.

In England the Marxists looked at taking over the country as a long term process. When they couldn't get voted into government or foment the workers revolution, they took over the school boards. Now you have forty years worth of people who went to Marxist controlled schools. I fear the same thing is happening here. I really fear for the education of my children. My oldest starts JK this year. I can see a restraining order against me before he graduates.

considering that in the CBCpravda national IQ test the only significant deviation in any category was that of diet and that vegans were far and away the lowest IQ. why would anyone consider it.

for those that missed it born in the summer , beer , wine drinking 35ish male meat eaters had the edge in most categories.

"considering that in the CBCpravda national IQ test the only significant deviation in any category was that of diet and that vegans were far and away the lowest IQ. why would anyone consider it.

for those that missed it born in the summer , beer , wine drinking 35ish male meat eaters had the edge in most categories."

I get my information from scientific studies rather than game shows.

The Brits were unwise enough to give up their arms and elect a leftist nanny-state government. The rest follows as night follows day.

Canadians, take note.

I hope you vegans realize something,Hitler ,who started and was the head of the National Socialist party,was a strict vegan,prohibited smoking in his presence and controlled the education of the German children with sports,food and incentives to tell the authorities if their parents strayed from the party line.I just want to know,who won the second world war?By the way,Hitler because he was a vegan,farted a lot also which seems to go along with that diet.

"I hope you vegans realize something,Hitler ,who started and was the head of the National Socialist party,was a strict vegan,"

Actually, no, he didn't start the National Socialist Party and he wasn't a vegan. But all this is beside the point. Most mass murderers have been meat-eaters. Bin Laden is a meat-eater. None of this is remotely relevant to anything.

mbaron:

So true about school boards! We are besieged by the liberals in school system. Everything they teach is against moral and reason, every word is a lie and their every action stinks corruption.

Expel the socialists from the schools should we, but with the widely advertised shortage of teachers, how is it possible? We should ask ourselves, is there really a shortage of teachers, or is it propaganda by the socialist teachers' unions?

Teaching that sodomy is Okay to the 10 year old is fine. Teaching that self defense is Okay is a no-no! What can be a better way to corrupt young minds in bulk? Only their drug and alcohol education that they attempted to conduct last year, but altered due to public outcry. Has any MSM picked up the story about teaching 8 YO where to buy booze and dope? Wishful thinking.

Kathie,

"The famous British nanny state is much to blame. but how did it get so entrenched in the first place?"

It is well documented. To ensure cross-class solidarity during WWII, there was a government propaganda campaign stating what was this all for after victory, and it certainly wasn't a repeat of WWI, with the great depression, Jarrow hunger marches, general strike, etc. It was a welfare state, NHS, unemployment insurance, etc. Socialism in short - and all paid for by American Marshall Plan money.

Note that immediately following WWII, a socialist government was voted in and Churchill, the victor, out.

The people who set up the welfare state weren't of the calibre of people that built the empire.

Blatant discrimination against the Inuit!

Julia Child, 1912 - 2004

Here's Julia describing her first television show: "There was this woman tossing French omelettes, splashing eggs about the place, brandishing big knives, panting heavily as she careened about the stove."

"If you're afraid of butter, as many people are nowadays," she said in one of her last television shows, "just put in cream!" she proclaimed, with a twinkle in her eye.

"Never be afraid to experiment in the kitchen, if it doesn't quite work out, just add more wine."

“Because of media hype and woefully inadequate information, too many people nowadays are deathly afraid of their food, and what does fear of food do to the digestive system? I, for one, would much rather swoon over a few thin slices of prime beefsteak, or one small serving of chocolate mousse, or a sliver of foie gras than indulge to the full on such nonentities as fat-free gelatin puddings.”

"Red meat and gin" was her rallying cry when the food world's puritans dared to promise long life through nervous nutrition, and [she] scorned grilled vegetables as "burnt and undercooked at the same time."

When [asked] to describe her guilty pleasures [...] she was sure to respond with her usual cheerful defiance, "I have no guilt."

“The pleasures of the table — that lovely old-fashioned phrase — depict food as an art form, as a delightful part of civilized life. In spite of food fads, fitness programs, and health concerns, we must never lose sight of a beautifully conceived meal.”

“Life is to be joyous, and joy comes from sensory pleasures shared with others."

If this wasn't so pathetic, it would be HILARIOUS! Is this some kind of joke, Kate? (Well, IMO, post-apocalyptic fictional writing usually falls into this category...)

My stepfather is British and has to have his meat, taters, and veg, every day: no pizza, no rice, no pasta, no casseroles, but lots of red meat, cooked to resemble leather.

The Environmental Agency's e-mail with the line, "It will be a case of introducing this gently as there is a risk of alienating the public majority," is a hoot. Veganism, whether introduced gently, or not, just might rouse the Brits from their cosy chairs and cuppas by the fire.

When a population is besotted with meat dishes like Shepherd's Pie, Steak and Kidney Pud, Roast Beef and Yorkshire Pud, Cottage Pie, Bangers and Mash, Cornish Pasties, and Scotch Eggs, how the heck are you going to "gently" wean them off them? 'Take one a year off the pub menu and hope they don't notice?

LOL!!

I am sure the NDP and maybe even the Greens have the same kind of hidden agenda over here.

The people who set up the welfare state weren't of the calibre of people that built the empire.

Yeah, no kidding. This is what I find so disturbing about Britain today - there was so much to admire in Britain's history, but it has almost entirely fallen apart within just a couple of generations.

The other disturbing thing is that Canada started following a similar path after them - we're probably just a couple of decades behind them.

It's hard to believe that Britain was once a place where you could say without irony that a man's home was his castle. That's a sad joke now, as is the Royal Navy, for that matter.

Transfats anyone?

I'm in London as I write this. Yesterday I went for a ride on the millenium wheel. They have security checking bags for anything sharp, which includes knitting needles. Now the wheel is owned by British Airways so do they think that someone will hijack one of the pods on the wheel and attempt a takeoff and crash into Buckingham Palace. The nanny state is to be hated.

Though no one wants to hear it, I will forward an answer to Kevin Jaeger's lament: "This is what I find so disturbing about Britain today - there was so much to admire in Britain's history, but it has almost entirely fallen apart within just a couple of generations."

'Anyone else notice what else has "entirely fallen apart" not only in Britain but throughout the developed world in the past couple of generations?

That would be the Judeo-Christian faith. That would be belief in Scriptural tenets such as "love your neighbour as yourself," and "to whom much has been given much is expected."

The British went to church. They read their Bibles. They ruled with a sense of "noblesse oblige." No longer. Those who make massive amounts of money these days seem to think they're entitled to their millions and there's very little sense of personal responsibility. The attitude seems to be "let the government do it."

When the personal motivation and inspiration for responsibility, accountability, and altruism on the the part of the individual are pawned off on "the government," society turns into a bunch of sheeple.

So, to our detriment, as long as "modern society" continues to denigrate Christian faith and continues to trash Judeo-Christian values and principles, which were the foundation stones of the vibrant democracies England and Canada once were, we're going to see more of this type of capitulation to nonsense.

Right on, batb! I posted at another thread about my latest problem with administration about the discipline of my unruly students: the office only wants "nice": I want tough and maybe a bit of discomfort--for the student. Or how about even a little fear--surely a part of respect?

In my memo to admin., I thought of appealing to biblical teaching and I nearly wrote, "The beginning of wisdom is the fear of the Lord." I thought better of it. Besides the inability of these functionaries to understand such a concept, I'd probably be sent to a re-education session for showing a lack of cultural sensitivity.

A society as far down the secular road as we are--read "paganism" (walk into a public school or watch HBO's series ROME to see the horrors of that)--is in big trouble. 'Problem is--and even here at sda--people aren't willing to name the problem. You don't/won't name it, it "don't" get fixed.

Kyrie eleison.

I wonder if I've ended another thread!

'Anyone else notice what else has "entirely fallen apart" not only in Britain but throughout the developed world in the past couple of generations?

That would be the Judeo-Christian faith.

Actually, I don't disagree at all that that's a big part of the problem. Much of their cultural and moral confidence came from their religious faith. But it is still astounding that the country that maintained the rule of law over a third of the globe not so long ago has become a nation of disorderly drunken yobs and slobs at home.

Just check out the most recent Maclean's for a depressing article on the social state of Britain these days. Even their creepy surveillance state is fighting a losing battle to maintain order.

What I've also noticed, Kevin, which may in part be the answer to the astounding yobbishness that is Britain now, is the abdication in "the ruling classes" of any sense of noblesse oblige: I've been given a lot, therefore I need to give back to society. Now, the rich just seem to have a lot of expensive toys and do a lot of jetsetting.

'Used to be, that when you had "a position" in society (and God knows, the Brits have their social classes) you also, as a rule, held yourself to a high standard of comportment, not to mention leadership in the community.

You don't see that too much anymore--again, related, I think, to the relegating of religion to the back burner--if not the back forty. Altruism isn't built into our fallen humanity. It's taught and caught. If you don't see it and no one's teaching you what sacrifice and sharing are, why would you bother? It's inconvenient.

I don't detect much leadership in the upper classes in Britian. In the Wars, for instance, a military officer would LEAD his men into battle, and suffer the same consequences as his squadron. Look at King George VI and Queen Elizabeth who stayed in London throughout the Blitz with their two children. No taking off to Canada for them.

Today, I don't see that kind of leadership--not much in Canada, either. There's a "Who me?" attitude and a "Why should I do that?, let someone else, or better yet, let the government, do it" attitude.

Add in political correctness and wimpy law enforcement officials, and you've got a right mess.

I appreciate Kevin's and batb's comments. However, on an issue of such importance as this, I'm sorry that, in over 12 hours, there have been only two posts. Interesting . . . and part of the problem, I think.

If anyone comes back to this thread...I've thought about it some more, and some other commenter touched on it: Because of the class system, the upper class leaders didn't tend to mentor or encourage potential leadership-quality individuals from the lower classes.

These young men and women made a mass exodus from Britain to all parts of the world, often to the U.S., Canada, and Australia, leaving the often shiftless and indolent wealthy, upper class Brits and the lazy and often shiftless I'm-Alright-Jack-type lower class Brits.

What a combination. Add that to relegating God and Judeo-Christian values to the basement and you've got a tinderbox of trouble. It's erupting now into a conflagration.

With due respect, from where I sit, Canada, itself, seems to be a "nation lobotomized". The "I'm all right, Jack" mentality's alive and well in this country. How else can the MSM, Liberals, NDP, Green Party, and other wacko fifth columnists be so successful.

A critical mass of Canadians is sleep walking to the edge of the abyss.

Again, with respect, I've noticed how few responses are made at sda about the mess of the educational system. I know many people here don't like teachers much--yes, they tend to be sheep--or their unions. (I think my union's an utter disgrace and it doesn't even protect teachers from the gulag-like conditions under which we toil: e.g., accusations by admin. against teachers are accepted at face value and not challenged.) What's happening in the secular, politically correct, left-wing, repressive--agree with our "progressive" agenda or we'll bite--public school systems is undermining the very foundations of our society. The barbarians the system receives, deceives, and passes on to the rest of society is going to be the death of us--in some cases, like Jane Creba and Jordan Manners, literally.

See the barbarity and chaos of the public schools and see society at large in the not too distant future. And be scared--very scared.