Heck. I just posted this video on Y2Kyoto entry below. Didn't see this post, so Kate must have just added it (or I'm blind).

Anyway. Check it out. It's over a hour long but well worth watching.

The Great Global Warming Swindle

Look to Al Gore, Suzuki and other quick-buck charlatans and hypocrites to turn up the volume of their rhetoric and their lies as the curtain is slowly pulled back to reveal the truth.

They will panic if they sense that the public might finally get to hear the truth.

Because most of the generally underpaid and poorly educated journalists want a supressed economy and a massive socialist state bureaucracy so they can all have high-status jobs for life generating totalitarian government propaganda?

Really Kate...did you not see that this came from an evil imperialist Blackshirt cabal (US Government) web site...anything published by the imperialist capitalist ravagers of the people's planet cannot be trusted as the truth....only utopian allegories from the people's global warming revolution and green guard can be trusted as truth.

Heritics!! Deniers!! Traitors!!

Soon they shall see nature's justice as they drown in the rising waters of the polar melt down.....and then I woke up. LOL :-)

Good news....it`s about time....people are starting to wake up! I sent the article to Dr Fruit Fly, i am sure he will enjoy the read!

The "Goracle's" wild eyed hysteria is now under increasing scrutiny. Good.

After all the Oil for Food rubbish AGW is just another corrupt scam to take taxpayers money to fund more debacles like Rwanda, Darfur,...etc.

A cynical do nothing organization that has completely come unhinged from its moorings.

The UN has become a cesspool of corruption, whose only useful acts have been to document death and destruction but does little to act.

What ever happened to that lofty and noble goal:

The RESPONSIBILITY TO PROTECT?

Oh yeah that is just an inconvenience in the way of making MONEY through the latest scam denoted as
Anthropogenic Global Warming.

"They shall beat their swords into ploughshares and their spears into pruning hooks. Nation shall no longer raise up arms against nation, neither shall they teach their children war anymore." [Isaiah 2:4])

I wonder how many of the 200,000 child soldiers in Africa have even heard of that dictum. When the UN finds its moral moorings again let me know.

In the meantime DIVINE PROVIDENCE is a much better guarantor of one's survival and safety.

Hans-Christian Georg Rupprecht BGS, PDP, CFP

Commander in Chief

Frankenstein Battalion

Knecht Rupprecht Division

Hans Corps

1st Saint Nicolaas Army

Army Group “True North”

If you want to bet against global warming there is a betting market or two online.

" ... and ask yourself why the media is missing one of the biggest stories in climate of 2007."

Because they want to.

Some words and phrases come to mind.

Premeditated actions.
Guilty by omission.
Fearmongering. A clear and present danger.
Vested interests.
Lying.
Garden path.
Propaganda.
Damaged goods.
Guilty of causing pain and mental anguish.
School children abuse.
Misdirecting taxpayer funds.
Belonging to a kult.
Favouring other countries interests. Treason.
In it up to their necks.
No turning back, would be an admission of guilt.

Should be enough.

I particularly liked this renouncement:

"Paleoclimatologist Dr. Ian D. Clark, professor of the Department of Earth Sciences at University of Ottawa, reversed his views on man-made climate change after further examining the evidence. “I used to agree with these dramatic warnings of climate disaster. I taught my students that most of the increase in temperature of the past century was due to human contribution of C02. The association seemed so clear and simple. Increases of greenhouse gases were driving us towards a climate catastrophe,” Clark said in a 2005 documentary "Climate Catastrophe Cancelled: What You're Not Being Told About the Science of Climate Change.”

“However, a few years ago, I decided to look more closely at the science and it astonished me. In fact there is no evidence of humans being the cause. There is, however, overwhelming evidence of natural causes such as changes in the output of the sun. This has completely reversed my views on the Kyoto protocol,” Clark explained.

“Actually, many other leading climate researchers also have serious concerns about the science underlying the [Kyoto] Protocol,” he added""

Imagine that??!! The sun is warming things!!

Jose sez: "If you want to bet against global warming there is a betting market or two online."

It's not a matter of global warming being at issue..it is "man made" global warming that is raudulent and also the matter of whether the current warming cycle is anything more than jsut another cycle cointrolled by mostly narural sources which does not warrant "hysteria" .

This is what the reasoned argument against GHG/GW has always been about....you may have missed it though in your commie martyrs history class.

meanwhile, in the REAL world, the hysteria goes into reverse mode. So much for global warming induced BBQ season for Moncton.

Environment Canada's Official Weather Warnings
Warnings
Moncton and southeast New Brunswick
11:02 AM ADT Wednesday 16 May 2007
Snowfall warning for
Moncton and southeast New Brunswick continued

10 to 15 centimetres of snow mixed at times with ice pellets or rain is forecast for this evening and tonight.

This is a warning that significant snowfall is expected or occurring in these regions. Monitor weather conditions..Listen for updated statements.

A low pressure system currently east of the Great Lakes is forecast to track just south of the province tonight. Rain ahead of the system has already spread over southern regions with up to 15 millimetres expected today. The rain mixed at times with ice pellets will change to snow by late this afternoon. 10 to 15 centimetres of snow is forecast before it comes to an end early Thursday. Regions along the Fundy coast will experience mainly rain with 30 to 40 millimetres possible. The rain along the Fundy coast could be mixed at times with snow this evening and overnight. Precipitation amounts over northern regions are not expected to be significant.

looking at a balmy +2 for the long weekend in Calgary. a hockey stick down.

Fred you will recall my summoning a mighty wind from the wilds of Hans Island in the run up to the "Goracle's" visit to Saskatchewan/Alberta.

Just a visit from the TRUE NORTH to let the Goracle know who is really running the show!

AGW is beating a hasty RETREAT!

Cheers

Hans-Christian Georg Rupprecht BGS, PDP, CFP

Commander in Chief

Frankenstein Battalion

Knecht Rupprecht Division

Hans Corps

1st Saint Nicolaas Army

Army Group “True North”

anon, right on target with your comment.

For as long as I can remember, the definition of "rich" in Cannuckistan is anyone who makes more than a reporter for the Trawna Star.

For any real scientist, the statement "the science has all been decided" is like a red flag in front of a bull.

In other news... Antarctica is melting:

http://www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2007/05/16/science-antarctic-melt.html

You want to talk hysteria? Hysteria is thinking that our economies will tank if we do stuff like demand automakers offer more fuel efficient vehicles. Seeing as how Europeans have considerably more choice when it comes to fuel efficient vehicles, it's not like we have to re-invent the wheel.

Just sent this to Kenney and Harper. Didn't bother sending it to Baird, he's just a sock puppet.

On the left side of the page is a link to the "Skeptics Guide" in pdf... suitable for sending to your schools etc.

Another story from our beloved CBC/Pravda. I think not.

"please review the list of scientists below and ask yourself why the media is missing one of the biggest stories in climate of 2007"

I'll ask you instead, Kate. Why?

"please review the list of scientists below and ask yourself why the media is missing one of the biggest stories in climate of 2007"

I'll ask you instead, Kate. Why?

Why?

Let me explain. The media is divided. Some will pick it up, like Glen Beck. While others either don't have the backbone - don't want to be outed as a climate change denier by rabid fools like the fruitfly scientist - or, it's not beneficial to the left wing wealth redistribution program. News and the truth are often mutually exclusive.

Comprende?

Goracle and Fruitfly could have saved face by switching from GW to GP or Global Warming to Global Pollution some time ago.

Too late for recovery now though.

I*m no scientist, but with all the compensating cold about the globe for warming trends in some areas, it seems more like a world shifting of weather patterns.

Priority one, in any case is clearing that amber cloud from our cities, like the one you can see looking down on Vancouver from Grouse mountain.

Priority 1(a) is getting *clean coal tech* installed in Coal-Gen plants.

Priority 1(b) is phase out of the antique Internal Combustion Engine and switching to battery and Hydrogen [HD] transport.

More practical than releasing hot air about world changes naturally brought about by solar and geodesic acrivity.

Change is a scientific fact. It is always on *go*. = TG

To begin with the list is not a list of recent converts as it seems to imply. Instead many of these are the same people who signed the Letter to Prime Minister Harper over a year ago.

However what is really important is the science that these people have relyed on in reaching their conclusions and even more important, the science that they have produced.

To take one example, good old Dr. Jaworowski. He is listed in the group, but if you look at his work you will find that it is not solid and in fact fairly poor quality (and I am being kind). I did a joint post in the fall looking at some of his work which can be found here . If anyone is interested there is a part two on the way but no telling when!

I don't remember seeing it mentioned but now skeptic Reid Bryson is considered the "Father of modern Climatology". Arguing with him about climate would be like arguing with Einstein about physics.

Global Warming will be a DEAD issue in five years.

Heavy snowfall warning for Moncton

w3.weatheroffice.gc.ca/warnings/report_e.html?nb16

Environment Canada's Official Weather Warnings
Warnings
Moncton and southeast New Brunswick
11:02 AM ADT Wednesday 16 May 2007
Snowfall warning for
Moncton and southeast New Brunswick continued

10 to 15 centimetres of snow mixed at times with ice pellets or rain is forecast for this evening and tonight.

This is a warning that significant snowfall is expected or occurring in these regions. Monitor weather conditions..Listen for updated statements.

A low pressure system currently east of the Great Lakes is forecast to track just south of the province tonight. Rain ahead of the system has already spread over southern regions with up to 15 millimetres expected today. The rain mixed at times with ice pellets will change to snow by late this afternoon. 10 to 15 centimetres of snow is forecast before it comes to an end early Thursday. Regions along the Fundy coast will experience mainly rain with 30 to 40 millimetres possible. The rain along the Fundy coast could be mixed at times with snow this evening and overnight. Precipitation amounts over northern regions are not expected to be significant.

WolfShield, you are of course aware of Dr. Einstein's views of quantum theory.

The fixation on CO2 is certainly not beneficial for the environment. The health and environmental risks caused by real problems such as particulate matter, mercury, etc. in the air, not to mention toxins in the water, are being eclipsed by all the hype surrounding AGW.

I still haven't seen a credible list of real scientists (unlike Dr. Fruitfly) promoting AGW. All we get is this 'vast majority' mantra.

I'm just sitting here waiting for a comment from "Jeff".

It looks like the cracks in the dam are beginning to spew water. Pretty soon the whole AGW nonsense is going to burst apart with a flood that will hopefully wash away what little credibility the MSM and the envirowackos have left. My own skepticism began when I read the IPCC scientific reports starting with the Vostok ice core data. How this stuff and the Kyoto blather ever gained any traction is beyond me.

Uh John if antarctica is melting,...

Observed at: Vostok, Antarctica
Elevation: 11220 ft / 3420 m

-57 °F / -50 °C

http://www.wunderground.com/global/stations/89606.html

Even from this prarie boy -50°C sounds kind of cold for a place to 'melt'. But I'm not as smart as the bubble heads at the CBC.

The fact is antarctica melts and freezes at the edges every year. panic mongers point to the melting and say run for your lives.

Maybe we could send Suzuki to live there and enjoy the balmy temperatures. He should drive his bus to get there.

As if you guys needed this context-holding reminder:

Ethics in science and society "describe appropriate behavior according to contemporary standards" (Friedman, 1996). Two standards that scientists follow for writing grant proposals are: 1) Keep it safe and survive, and 2) Don’t lie if you don’t have to.

Pollack (2005) addresses the first ethic, noting that the paramount motivational factor for scientists today is the competition to survive. A scientist’s most pressing need, which supersedes the scientific pursuit of truth, is to get her grant funded – to pay her salary and that of her staff, to pay department bills, and to obtain academic promotion. The safest way to generate grants is to avoid any dissent from orthodoxy. Grant-review Study Sections whose members’ expertise and status are tied to the prevailing view do not welcome any challenge to it. A scientist who writes a grant proposal that dissents from the ruling paradigm will be left without a grant. Speaking for his fellow scientists Pollack writes, "We have evolved into a culture of obedient sycophants, bowing politely to the high priests of orthodoxy."

Applicants following the ethic of "keep it safe and survive" propose research that will please the reader-peers and avoid projects that might displease them. An NIH pamphlet on grant applications reinforces such behavior by stating, "The author of a project proposal must learn all he can about those who will read his proposal and keep those readers constantly in mind when he writes." (Ling, 2004a)....

From http://www.lewrockwell.com/miller/miller23.html . The writer of it is an M.D.-holder.

Anybody notice the disproportionate number of Canadians in the piece? Wonder what that's all about.

Dr. Wright, I don't recall mentioning that antarctica was melting. I understand that parts of it are and parts aren't. However I will note that at an elevation of 2 miles, most places are pretty cold.

Practical and money saving for Global War. . Pollution.

For your next new car . . .
Canada Government Gives you great Info Value Free!

oee.nrcan.gc.ca/transportation/personal/pdfs/most-efficient-vehicles-2006.pdf
http://tinyurl.com/2cmz24
There are 12 car photos per page for each year from 1999 to 2007. Each photo and specs in order of gas efficiency.
============ Check the year page for your car
[Photo]
Honda Insight
1.0 L, 3 cylinder hybrid
5 speed manual
Annual Fuel Cost: $504
Annual Fuel Use: 720 L
CO2 Emissions/Year: 1728 kgTwo-
Fuel Consumption City: 3.9 L/100 km (72 mi./gal.) Hwy: 3.3 L/100 km (86 mi./gal.)

[Photo]
Volkswagen Jetta
TDI Diesel Wagon
1.9 L, 4 cylinder
5 speed manual
Annual Fuel Cost: $791
Annual Fuel Use: 1180 L
CO2 Emissions/Year: 3186 kg
Fuel Consumption City: 6.6 L/100 km (43 mi./gal.) Hwy: 5.2 L/100 km (54 mi./gal.)

[Photo]
Volkswagen New Beetle
TDI Diesel
1.9 L, 4 cylinder
5 speed manual
Annual Fuel Cost: $737
Annual Fuel Use: 1100 L
CO2 Emissions/Year: 2970 kg
Fuel Consumption City: 6.2 L/100 km (46 mi./gal.) Hwy: 4.6 L/100 km (61 mi./gal.)

[Photo]
Pontiac Vibe [When 35MPG standard arrives, all below this disqualified]
1.8 L, 4 cylinder
5 speed manual
Annual Fuel Cost: $980
Annual Fuel Use: 1400 L
CO2 Emissions/Year: 3360 kg
Fuel Consumption City: 7.9 L/100 km (36 mi./gal.) Hwy: 5.9 L/100 km (48 mi./gal.)

No need for hybrid unless you want bigger car w/ lower MPG. Hybrids are no gas = no go too. To be free of gas pumps and sudden gas outs, you need an Electric Vehicle. [EV]
I like the Phoenix short box p/u EV.. Click TG below for photo. =TG

John Cross:

definition of poor quality: anyone who disagrees with me.

Practical and money saving for Global War. . Pollution.

For your next new car . . .
Canada Government Gives you great Info Value Free!

oee.nrcan.gc.ca/transportation/personal/pdfs/most-efficient-vehicles-2006.pdf
tinyurl.com/2cmz24
There are 12 car photos per page for each year from 1999 to 2007. Each photo and specs in order of gas efficiency.
============ Check the year page for your car
[Photo]
Honda Insight
1.0 L, 3 cylinder hybrid
5 speed manual
Annual Fuel Cost: $504
Annual Fuel Use: 720 L
CO2 Emissions/Year: 1728 kgTwo-
Fuel Consumption City: 3.9 L/100 km (72 mi./gal.) Hwy: 3.3 L/100 km (86 mi./gal.)

[Photo]
Volkswagen Jetta
TDI Diesel Wagon
1.9 L, 4 cylinder
5 speed manual
Annual Fuel Cost: $791
Annual Fuel Use: 1180 L
CO2 Emissions/Year: 3186 kg
Fuel Consumption City: 6.6 L/100 km (43 mi./gal.) Hwy: 5.2 L/100 km (54 mi./gal.)

[Photo]
Volkswagen New Beetle
TDI Diesel
1.9 L, 4 cylinder
5 speed manual
Annual Fuel Cost: $737
Annual Fuel Use: 1100 L
CO2 Emissions/Year: 2970 kg
Fuel Consumption City: 6.2 L/100 km (46 mi./gal.) Hwy: 4.6 L/100 km (61 mi./gal.)

[Photo]
Pontiac Vibe [When 35MPG standard arrives, all below this disqualified]
1.8 L, 4 cylinder
5 speed manual
Annual Fuel Cost: $980
Annual Fuel Use: 1400 L
CO2 Emissions/Year: 3360 kg
Fuel Consumption City: 7.9 L/100 km (36 mi./gal.) Hwy: 5.9 L/100 km (48 mi./gal.)

No need for hybrid unless you want bigger car w/ lower MPG. Hybrids are no gas = no go too. To be free of gas pumps and sudden gas outs, you need an Electric Vehicle. [EV]
I like the Phoenix short box p/u EV.. Click TG below for photo. =TG

john, i have a graph showing 400,000 years of ice core data from greenland. this data shows regular fluctations in temp over thousands of years on a regular basis. looking at this graph i would say we are about to have a drop in temp in the nexxt few hundred years. for some reason i am just not worried about it.

The Antarctic California sized piece melting story is a crock.

What you had was 1 year when the had a warm spell of 41 degrees. the story also indicated that this happened in antarctic summer of 2005 (meaning during the winter in the north.) The point being it happened in 2005 and hasnt been observed in the the next two antarctic summers.

Amamzing they drag out 2 yea old data. Just like last spetmeber they talked about the norhtern ice pack being at its smallest in years...in september 2005. Guess what he arctic ice pack was bigger in 2006 and 2007. Runaway heating, my ass! I mean there was more CO2 in the atmosphere in 206 and 2007 than in 2005 so shouldnt that mean that it got warmer? Apparently not.

Warwick: Here is a conundrum for you. We disagree on what the definition of disagree is yet you don't see me calling your definition poor quality.

However if you were referring to Dr. Z's work, why don't you just point out some of the errors with Jim's (and my) analysis.

John

1000 years ago, the Vikings discovered Greenland, and settled there because of fertile land.
Now it is covered in ice.

Could someone please explain....

..( IF ).. Greenland becomes fertile AGAIN,

...Why is that a bad thing...?

Why don't we hear about the "Petition Project" (Oregon Project) which has been signed by some 17,800 scientists who are against the Kyoto accord? A quote from the paper - "Environmental Effects of Increased Atmospheric Carbon Dioxide" which can be found at the URL below.
http://www.oism.org/pproject/s33p36.html

"Human activities are believed to be responsible for the rise in CO2 level of the atmosphere. Mankind is moving the carbon in coal, oil, and natural gas from below ground to the atmosphere and surface, where it is available for conversion into living things. We are living in an increasingly lush environment of plants and animals as a result of the CO2 increase. Our children will enjoy an Earth with far more plant and animal life as that with which we now are blessed. This is a wonderful and unexpected gift from the Industrial Revolution."

GRM: You probably don't hear much about the Petition Project anymore since the science that it was based on has moved.

As a quick example, in the paper you referred to, they talk about global temperatures and they place a great deal of emphasis on the satellite data over surface data. To quote “The satellite record, with uniform and better sampling, is much more reliable.” However I will point out that the data set from the satellites have been corrected (starting about 6 years ago) to account for orbital decay and other problems. The corrections have been done by the team (Spencer and Christy) who reported the trends in the first place as well as others. Their observed warming has changed from a decrease of about -0.04C per decade to an increase of about 0.13 per decade. It is somewhat ironic that this is similar to the number that the paper used for surface warming from the land stations.

There are other problems with the paper eg Figure 3 and Figure 16 that we can talk about if you wish.

I see that CBC is posting news the in 2005, NASA said Antarctica was melting..... they should also post that in 2003 NASA said that Mars was melting.

Cosmology goes Canadian! Theoretical Physics goes GALACTIC!

Extra, Extra read all about it, the world as we know it is not ending.

Canadian Government has mind bending experience without marijuana or alcohol. Get spaced out and high on cosmology!

BTW my ice cream melts in summer as well, but holds up very well in winter.

Public events for May 17, 2007

May 16, 2007
Ottawa, Ontario

Public events for Prime Minister Stephen Harper for Thursday, May 17th are:

Waterloo, Ontario

Perimeter Institute for Theoretical Physics
31 Caroline Street North
Waterloo, Ontario
N2L 2Y5

11:00 a.m.

Alice Room
Perimeter Institute for Theoretical Physics

*Photo opportunity only*

11:45 a.m. – Prime Minister Stephen Harper will make an announcement. He will be accompanied by President of the Queen's Privy Council for Canada, Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs and Minister of Western Economic Diversification, Rona Ambrose, Minister of Industry, Maxime Bernier, Minister of Finance, Jim Flaherty, and Member of Parliament for Kitchener-Conestoga, Harold Albrecht.

The Mike Lazaridis Theatre
Perimeter Institute for Theoretical Physics

"For any real scientist, the statement "the science has all been decided" is like a red flag in front of a bull."

Statements like that are usually made in polemical statements by skeptics.

Know your bull.

Global warming not only causes warming, it also causes cooling. This means that temperatures may be "unseasonably warm", or "unseasonably cold". In between, temperatures may be temporarily average. All of this is alarming.

Much money must be spent on this.

New Glacier Forming in the Crater of Mount St. Helens. http://glaciercaves.com/html/anewgl_1.HTM

DrD at May 16, 2007 2:38 PM, watch the video I posted at the top of this thread. Believe it or not, it was Maggie Thatcher's gift of government grants to anyone who could come up with science that would ultimately help her dismantle the power of the coal miners union in Britian. Once grants became available the avalanche of phoney science began.

I like the graph in that CBC story, showing in red and yellow the areas that had warmed.....notice how small a percentage of Antarctica that is. Notice, then, that all the areas NOT in red or yellow must therefore be stable or cooling. Therefore, 90%+ of the continent is cooling, not warming. Funny how the media just mentions the warming, painting it as "wide-spread". It even mentioned that nothing happened when some of the ice melted....the story says it just refroze later. Yet the whole article gives you the sense of "OMG AGW! And here's the proof!"

Now only if the news manufacturing corporations reported on this, hopefully some people may come to their senses.
Sadly it is not going to happend, the corrupt environ-mentalists divinig the climate will stil have the upper hand.

Dave Rutherford had a great guest on this morning talking about this topic. A must listen! 630 Ched in Edmonton (not sure the station in Calgary). It starts just past the 11:00 mark and runs until 11:45.

All this scientific proof against the Kyoto Kult. And what do they counter with ? Science ?? Nope.

They build an ark !! :)

ISTANBUL, Turkey (AP) - Environmental activists are building a replica of Noah's Ark on Mount Ararat—where the biblical vessel is said to have landed after the great flood—in an appeal for action on global warming, Greenpeace said Wednesday.
Turkish and German volunteer carpenters are making the wooden ship on the mountain in eastern Turkey, bordering Iran. The ark will be revealed in a ceremony on May 31, a day after Greenpeace activists climb the mountain and call on world leaders to take action to tackle climate change, Greenpeace said.

//www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8P5ET601&show_article=1

ISTANBUL, Turkey (AP) - Environmental activists are building a replica of Noah's Ark on Mount Ararat—where the biblical vessel is said to have landed after the great flood—in an appeal for action on global warming, Greenpeace said Wednesday.
Turkish and German volunteer carpenters are making the wooden ship on the mountain in eastern Turkey, bordering Iran. The ark will be revealed in a ceremony on May 31, a day after Greenpeace activists climb the mountain and call on world leaders to take action to tackle climate change, Greenpeace said.

Cool. Maybe this "ship" can also 'jump-the-shark'.

Who will be the bearded old captain ?? Suzuki ??

The Pastor ?? Gore, of course.

The Chaplain ?? Dion.

The financier ? Mo.

Out-to-launch ? Layton.

Will the CBC have Niel MacDonald there live ?? Stupid question.

Ron,

Perfect type casting. You are a clairvoyant.

Ark building is a fitting and profitable Liberal symbol.

It IS a symbol, an Icon.

It is artistic and creative.

It is an expression of high emotion.

The theme is spiritual, not factual.

And above all, It is ideal for fund-raising.

They will want to fill it with our folding money for the cause.

Now if *THE CAUSE* was to provide *clean coal tech*, for the tens of thousands of CoalGen plants around the world, then there my be some merit to the idea.

More likely the funds raised would be for helping a Liberal / NDP coop take power with vague promises of saving the globe.

It will be interesting to see what nebulous cause they finally decide to use. = TG

The baseball prediction analogy is quite apt as there is no a-priori means of calculating who will win the world series. One can make educated guesses and there are those baseball fanatics who amass huge quantities of stats in order to better refine their predictions. Regardless of how detailed they get, one cannot algorithmically predict who will win the world series. This problem has a number of constraints in that the winning team will be a member of the set of professional baseball teams competing against one another. The system is sufficiently chaotic that the only way to find who wins the world series is to wait until the season is over.

The earth's climate is a much more complicated quasi-stable chaotic system than the America's professional baseball league. We have access to historical climate data which give some constraints on average temperature, albedo, etc. Given the chaotic nature of the world's climate, I would expect that a reasonable model would produce a set of possible climate states when run for time T. I'm very suspicious of a model which would keep producing global warming scenario's every time it is run; one would expect some runs to produce ice ages and other's to do nothing.

There have been very abrupt changes in climate over the last 30,000 years and some of the highlights I would have like to have been arount to see are when Lake Agassiz suddenly began to drain through the St. Lawrence river (and totally changed Atlantic ocean currents) and when the Mediterranean sea filled in. The change in Lake Agassiz drainage occurred over a very short time scale and resulted in a massive change in climate.

Global climate models that don't consider such events are less than useless. What I would expect is a spectrum of possible climates showing how increasing atmospheric [CO2] changes the probability of ice ages, no change in climate, much wetter climates, hotter climates, etc. This would require one to run models millions of times with slightly different initial conditions with each run giving a single point in the future climate space.

The only good thing about the eco-hysteria related to AGW is that it has made people aware that the earth's climate is quasi-stable. Even if there were no SUV's, it could suddenly change dramatically and produce another ice age. This suggests to me is that we need to be prepared to deal with any climatic contingency and this would require an enormous expansion of industrial production capacity which is the exact opposite response to what Dr. Fruitfly and his disciples are preaching.

One way of getting around the problem of planetary climates is by leaving the earth and building space habitats. If Suzuki and his eco-fanatics are successfull, human expansion to space will never happen.

Three cheers for finding some sane and conscientious scientists. But it's too late. The barn door has been busted open and the wild horse of unrestrained government intervention is already aiming its hoofed feet at your head.

Of course you could always - nah - what am I saying!

I was going to say, you could maybe call to account the political boneheads in your own party who are about to crack your car-driving, home-heating, job-working skulls so they can win a few more votes from bus-riding nitwits and hydro-dam-owning corruption monkies. But if that's too much of a bother, never mind ...

MT rejected my trackback for this

AL GORE is one of the biggist producers of HOT AIR he needs to contain it

Gees Jeff, still waiting here. Where the hell are you?

Conspiracy or conspiracy theory? Did ExxonMobil pay off scientists to discredit global warming?

Posted Jan 4th 2007 1:02PM by Jeremy Korzeniewski
Filed under: Etc.

According to the Union of Concerned Scientists, ExxonMobil gave $16 million to 43 ideological groups between 1998 and 2005 in a coordinated effort to mislead the public by discrediting the science behind global warming.

This backs up the claims by Britain's leading scientific academy, The Royal Society, who in September wrote the oil company asking it to halt support for groups that "misrepresented the science of climate change."

According to ExxonMobil's web site, $6.8 million of nearly $133 million in 2005 contributions globally for "public information and policy research" was distributed to more than 140 think-tanks, universities, foundations, associations and other groups.

Some of those have publicly disputed the link between greenhouse gas emissions and global warming. In September, ExxonMobil admitted that it donates to companies that research "significant policy issues and promote informed discussion on issues of direct relevance to the company.
==========AutoBlogGrren.com

How can ExxonMobile afford 16 Million$ donations? Well let*s see. . .

As if they didn't already have enough... Exxon still trying to pay off scientists?

Posted Feb 2nd 2007 5:04PM by Jeremy Korzeniewski
Filed under: Etc., Green Culture, Legislation and Policy.

To go along with our previous coverage of the newest report on global warming by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, the Guardian in the U.K. is reporting that the American Enterprise Institute is offering $10,000 each to any scientist willing to undermine the I.P.C.C.'s report. The AEI is funded by...

drumroll... ExxonMobil. Again, according the the Guardian, "The AEI has received more than $1.6m from ExxonMobil and more than 20 of its staff have worked as consultants to the Bush administration.

Lee Raymond, a former head of ExxonMobil, is the vice-chairman of AEI's board of trustees." And, they also offered travel expenses. "The letters were sent by Kenneth Green, a visiting scholar at AEI, who confirmed that the organization had approached scientists, economists and policy analysts to write articles for an independent review that would highlight the strengths and weaknesses of the IPCC report."

I think that they were kind of cheap on this one. I mean, if they made $1,252.54 every second last...
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I don*t take sides on these giants. Lee Iacocca says they are milking us, soo, who knows? = TG

PS: ExxonMobile are rolling off white plastic type battery liner film. The heart of the Litium polymer battery industry. Guess energy to them means every last type possible. = TG

Just occurred to me Jeff. Maybe Kate cut you off!! God, I can't imagine being cut off by Kate!!

Sorry about all this ExxonMobile griping, but it was interesting to me and could be to you as well.

If you have any questions about why it will be very, very difficult for biofuel start-ups and solar car enthusiasts to compete in the oil-friendly auto industry, don't look only at the technological troubles with lithium-ion batteries or getting biodiesel from algae.

Look at the cash register over at Exxon Mobil. The company has just posted 2006 profits (not revenue, which was an obscene $377.64 billion last year) of $39.5 billion.

Aside from being the largest annual profit by a U.S. company, how much is that, exactly? $39.5 billion profit in one year = $39,500,000,000.00 = $759,615,384.62/week = $108,219,178.08/day = $4,509,132.42/hour = $75,152.21/minute = $1,252.54/second.

I could do a lot with $1,200 a second. What does Exxon Mobil do with it? Paying off scientists in an effort to mislead the public on global warming and pressuring teachers not to show An Inconvenient Truth in schools. In the mean time, Exxon only spends 0.1 percent of its total annual capital investment on sustainable technologies such...
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Once you go Green, some develop this viewpoint... = TG

?My own skepticism began when I read the IPCC scientific reports starting with the Vostok ice core data."

My skepticism came when I heard two words--MAURICE STRONG

Horny Toad

A different Bob said: "Gees Jeff, still waiting here. Where the hell are you?"

I fear he's lost in the forests of High Park.

jmorrison: I missed your comment earlier, but in the interest of keeping things correct you are not talking about an ice core from Greenland. Greenland provides a maximum of 200,000 years ice record. The one you are thinking of if from the Antarctic.

Iceman_Aragorn: you did not understand what the graph is showing. It does not show warming but melting. This is an important distinction.

I have heard of 'big oil' conspiracy theories all my life. From super milage carburators to electric cars to oil reserves.... Track record ?? Zero.

If electric vehicles can compete, I welcome them. Otherwise they will remain golf carts.

And remember. Just who are the "THEY" that make so much money in the oil industry ?? ... "They" are "us".

Yes, us. In pension funds, savings, investments, workers.

Kill the Golden Goose and we are all cooked. Even the slack-ass hippys who rely on flaky basket weaving hand outs.

Loki, that was an interesting point about Lake Agassiz and the GCM's. I did a bit of digging abd found the following in the IPCC AR4 Chapter 6.

"A likely cause for the 8.2 ka event is an outburst flood during which pro-glacial Lake Agassiz drained about 1,014 m3 of freshwater into Hudson Bay extremely rapidly (possibly 5 Sv over 0.5 year; Clarke et al., 2004). Climate models have been used to test this hypothesis and assess the vulnerability of the ocean and atmospheric circulation to different amounts of freshwater release (see Alley and Agustsdottir, 2005 for a review).

The National Post has been doing a series about Climate Change Deniers. I think there's an article about it every week with the name and mini-CV of the denier. The last article they seem to have was the 19th on on April 13th but there may be more elsewhere. A nice list of these articles can be found here:

http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/environment/story.html?id=c6a32614-f906-4597-993d-f181196a6d71&k=0

So you could probably glean a few more names for your list from them. Some interesting Climate Change rebuttals too.