wow, 31 votes and nary a comment?

Not sure how vulnerable it makes us to terrorist attacks but it certainly makes us vulnerable to economic attacks of the wage structure and also cultural attacks from incompatable cultural/political ideologies.

If we had a true melting pot tradition I'd be much less concerned about immigration...probably wouldn't give it a second thought....but with the adoption of deconstructionist Multicult policy which dictates newcomers not assimilate and ghettoize into communities with old world culture intact, this opens us to social and civil unrest as cultural ideologies inconsistant with our established laws and social order are kept alive to fester and confront the founding and established order.

Already a hundred votes up. It may not be scientific, but it'll be a lot bigger sample size than SES took.

Already a hundred votes up. It may not be scientific, but it'll be a lot bigger sample size than SES took.

That poll question would be interesting to see up on a lib/dipper blogsite.

The very existence of a straightforward, unspun question would cause much confusion, twitching, and vented spleen all around. It would also be entertaining to watch...

If you get a much larger sampling than SES does, will the MSM carry the results as a lead news headline tomorrow?

Yeah, right.

Tied into this I think... Here's a story about the ties between Canada's anti-war activists and Islamo-fascists. Speaks volumes and I think it reinforces the idea behind the poll.

http://www.canada.com/topics/news/national/story.html?id=dff71a71-6be0-4d25-a0b7-81e7af9d8d24&k=28941

According to conference literature, the main purpose of the event, sponsored by the officially banned Muslim Brotherhood and Egyptian opposition parties, was to forge "an international alliance against imperialism and Zionism."

It may not be scientific

It is not. Don't kid yourself.

Today, in Canada, anyone who steps onto Canadian territory is automatically a Canadian citizen with all the "rights" guaranteed by PET's Charter of Wrongs.

Canadians were seduced/traumatized;lobotomized by Trudeau and his cadres. Now, Trudeau's albatross is coming home to roast; it's a turkey vulture. as Mao Stlong said: Those who eat turkey vulture have fowl taste in mouth. Bitter, too.

Canadians: too late, too smart?

When did this "open immigration policy" begin?

The recently deceased/departed left-liberal socialist Supreme Bertha Wilson blew the doors wide open on your behalf.

Bertha opened the door and inluenza, aka Singh, Mohammed, El-Misery, Chak, et al.

Bertha has gone to her reward; Bertha sits on the left hand of Gaia, beside Pierre, Tommy, Castro, et al.
...-

February, 1997
Illegals' "Refugee" Claims Soar 75 Per cent

In an article aptly entitled "The Supreme Court Has Gummed Up the Refugee Process," Jeffrey Simpson explained that the task of sorting out refugee claimants "was made more difficult still by a 1985 decision of the Supreme Court of Canada. The so-called Singh decision, written by Bertha Wilson when she was a judge of the court, gummed up a reasonably effective system by extending protection under the Charter of Rights and Freedoms to 'everyone' who put a foot on Canadian soil and by insisting that 'everyone' was entitled to a full oral hearing. ... Last year, ... of decisions actually rendered, 9,541 were positive; 7,037 were negative. ...-
http://www.canadafirst.net/current_issues/cih-feb97.html

No morning at SDA is complete without an "anon" dropping by to share his reading comprehension issues.

Ooops. Didn't see the Reader's Tips section. Sorry for posting that link when it was already over there.

Yes, a poll such as this has one agenda - to manipulate public opinion.

The questions, in my view, are invalid. That's because they are set up in a frame known as the Either-Or, Black and White or False Dilemma Fallacy. That's where you reduce a complex situation to two opposite alternatives and ask your respondents which one they would choose. In reality, most wouldn't choose either polarity - and so, the question forces them into a 'false dilemma'.

All the questions in the SES survey are fallacious in this manner.

You have 'deployed' versus 'not deployed'. Heck how does the normal citizen have the expertise to judge whether or not the troops are deployed properly?
This question should not have been asked. It's like asking the urbanite whether/not farmers milk their cows properly.

Then, there is the question asking whether/not the mission in Afghanistan makes Canadians more or less vulnerable. The either-or framework doesn't give the respondent any opportunity to say, 'a lot more vulnerable, a little vulnerable, not at all' etc. Incirrect framework.

The 'casualties' vs 'casualties means we leave' is equally an invalid format for such a question. It's that either-or fallacy.

Finally, the last question allows for some variation in response. BUT, it reveals a further deep flaw in the poll. The sample population.

Ahh...the sample population. It's biased. The sample informs us that there were, of the 1,000 odd respondents - 279 Liberals, 142 NDP, 74 Bloc and 88 Green. And only 274 Conservatives. That's a deeply biased sample. Three quarters of the sample population already held 'hostile to the Conservatives views'. So, asking this 3/4 of your sample population what they think of Conservative policies - is an invalid and unreliable means of finding out about public opinion.

The entire poll - every question of it, and the choice of the sample population - is deeply flawed.

That's because every Canadian is trained to be an "arm chair general".

Troops mount your lazy-boys!

Beer and popcorn ready.

Depress clicker.

Absorb propaganda.

Vote LIEberally.

And right on time:

Six arrested in alleged New Jersey terror plot
Updated Tue. May. 8 2007 9:02 AM ET

CTV.ca News Staff

Six nationals of the former Yugoslavia have been arrested for allegedly plotting to go on a shooting rampage at a New Jersey army base.

Too bad they didn't have polls to gauge the Indians' public opinion when your ancestors came over and so very many of them woon wound up dead.

Disgusting, racist pigs.

"Too bad they didn't have polls to gauge the Indians' public opinion when your ancestors came over and so very many of them woon wound up dead.

Disgusting, racist pigs."

:-) ROTFLMAO

We have a leading candidate in this week's SDA "progresive hater" of the week award....this weeks winner will be given an all expense paid trip to utopia and a custom made jewelry-quality 2 gallon pail to contain their gushing bile.

So far Frank leads the other contestants by a large margin with his broad contempt for Canadians and his toxic use of "victim culture" pathos to dihonestly tranfer guilt in a fantasy time machine to modern society.

Frank,

You may return to your belligerent ignorance now. No need to discuss issues, only to scream "Disgusting, racist pigs" at anyone who dares to question what you don't want questioned or discussed.

So, how 'bout this:

You're a disgusting, jack-booted, tyranical oppressor who denies the right of others to freedom of speach, association and thought.

The rest of us will debate anything we damn well please and none of it makes any of us racist. Certainly no more so than your average leftard hypocrite.

Is it not telling that a commentor would, by default, link immigration to race? I didn't realize we had official race-based immigration.

Or is he/she suggesting that terrorism and race are inextricably connected?

It's not about transferring guilt.

It's a deeply felt personal belief that immigration has not only been a defining feature of this place for 400 years, but also what makes Canada special today.

The way in which English and French arrived here and set aside their old-world battlefield hostilities to resolve their disagreements in a shared political system, and the way in which they opened their doors to all of our ancestors and modern-day immigrants who came here and helped build arguably the world's most peaceable, free, and prosperous multi-ethnic society should be an object of pride.

Which is why it disgusts me to the point of anger when I see 99 per cent of respondents in a poll react to immigration as if it were a scourge -- and not the symbol of national pride that I believe it is. Or should be.

don't forget the average right wing hypocrite that resorts to the same kind of name calling as frank did!

Frank - where in the poll question did you find the word "scourge"?

Once again, we see someone in media "interpreting" a poll response for over 400 of their fellow citizens through the lens of their own ideological bias.

Consider this - typically, polls here swing 90% right leaning and 10% left, which might be expected in this venue.

What does that say about the single digits of respondents here who voted that open immigration policies make our country "less vulnerable" to terrorism?

This was a simple question and it was based entirely on the one asked by SES on Canadian participation in Afghanistan. There is an answer to it that should cut across political affiliations, and is supported by cases like the Khadr family and the Air India bombing - because the facts simply speak for themselves.

So it brings me back to your response - what's going on inside your head that you would level a kneejerk accusation of "racism" against those who have simply chosen the most logical answer?

Dan,

You didn't get the point. It was to show what the left dishes up instead of ideas. A sort of "right back at you." It's why I opened my statement with: "So, how 'bout this:"

Frank,

You mistake the idea that there should be immigration with a complaint that the immigration system we have is broken. The two are not the same.

I don't think we should limit economic class immigrants the way we do. This class of immigrant has to be screened and proven prior to arrival. These are the immigrants who contribute to our society. These are the people who built Canada.

The family class is a problem. It should be limited to spouse and dependant, minor children only. Extended family should have to qualify on their own merit under the economic class. But even family class (while a huge drag on the economy in a way that economic class immigrants are not,) still isn't as bad as our pathetic, criminal joke that is the refugee system.

Our refugee system has made Canada the world's public toilet for every crook, deadbeat, terrorist and scumbag on earth. There has been no stats kept or at least released to the public (quite deliberately I'm sure,) but I'd hazard a guess that of all immigrant problems, 95% come from this class of immigrant. It's most poignant to consider that economic class immigrants are usually most pissed off about the deadbeat class immigrants that we end up with from the refugee system. This is because of the hoops that legitimate immigrants have to go through to come to Canada. They wait years and fill out miles of paperwork and background checks only to see lying crook deadbeats skip the queue by claiming refugee status. These deadbeats are aided by criminal behaviour of the advocates and immigration lawyers who coach refugee claimants to lie. Even before this class of deadbeat gets here they are often (usually?) coached to discard their paperwork and concoct a story. Quite frankly, most people who can be considered refugees don't have the means to get to Canada. They're sitting in camps being raped by UN peacekeepers or slaughtered by thugs. They aren't taking international air flights through 3rd countries (in violation of the rules that state a refugee has to claim in the first safe country they land in.)

Our immigration system needs fixing. It's discrediting the entire system. But pointing this out is deemed by the left to be off limits to discussion and the first thing out of the mouths of the left is to call out "RACIST!!" as their first, knee-jerk reaction to stifle debate and crush dissent. This is the sort of thing that pissed conservatives off the most. That crushing of public debate by the left's thought police.

frank:

The way in which English and French arrived here and set aside their old-world battlefield hostilities to resolve their disagreements in a shared political system, and the way in which they opened their doors to all of our ancestors and modern-day immigrants who came here and helped build arguably the world's most peaceable, free, and prosperous multi-ethnic society should be an object of pride.

Are you kidding? Do you know ANYTHING about Canadian history? There were plenty of wars imported from Europe to North America in the last 300 years. "Je me souviens" is on the Quebec license plate. "I remember" (the Plains of Abraham).

Not to mention Quebec wanting it's own legal system based on Napoleonic code.

You have a complete revisionist view of Canadian history.

For the revisionism, don't blame Frank. Blame the educrats in his province's ministry of truth who designed the new PC Orwellian education system.

No, you can blame Frank too. He's in media.

Media, huh?

I'll take it back then. Frank is responsible and culpable. If Frank is in the media, he should learn to keep his mouth shut on matters he hasn't fact checked.

Hey Reid --

Those things were precisely what I had in mind earlier.

The Plains of Abraham was part of the Seven Years' War raging in Europe between France and England. 117 years later, Canada was born out of principles based on compromise between English Protestants and French Catholics.

The Napoleonic Code co-existing side-by-side with the British Common Law system in a PERFECT illustration of a country that has succeeded admirably at taking disparate parts and allowing them to retain true to their own traditions while forming a greater entity called, "Canada."

I believe our multicult policies are a modern-day reflection of that same principle that saw two warring nations create a successful and peaceful country together: We can remain true to different heritages and varied pasts, while sharing the same goals of a united country and a prosperous future.

I think Canada's fared quite well in that regard. That's why it's so frustrating to see any reference to immigration on this site related to terrorism, violence, or some suggestion of lost Canadian values.

To wit, today's poll on whether immigration places us in danger.

Anyway. Thanks for the history lesson.

Oh, come on.

I love my country but it isn't fricken utopia!

Yes, two referrendums later we're still here. So is the Bloc and the PQ. The two solitudes are a source of a good lot of the problems we have managing anything in this country.

Oh, and ever heard of Belgium and Switzerland?

Canada isn't the first amalgam of two or more different linguistic groups.

I'd like to know when Canada's natives will pay reparation for all the damage their ancestors did as they migrated out of Africa through Asia and onto the North American continent.

I’d like to know when they are going to reimburse the Inca, the Maya, the Aztecs, the Toltecs, etc for having their ancestors forced off the land to points farther south.

After all, what’s good for the goose …

Frank and all the MSM are fully informed and just don't give a shit about Canadians.
His job is to deliver the liberal /progressive narative and to hide liberal/progressive crime.

How's the McLiar slush fund investigation going Frank?

FLICK OFF Frank.

frank, that was then, this is now. For starters, Canada and the US, heck, add all of Central and South American countries are defined modern states functioning with centralalized governments that extend to their defined borders. They have the right to define who and how many are admitted to their country. So your comment about the attitudes of a few tribes of hunter/gatherers 400+ years ago is idiotic.

There is nothing racist at all if a populace declines admitting immigrants it feels can't conform to the prevailing culture or don't have a needed skill set they want. Immigration is by invitation in the modern world, is it not?

Maybe you need to get up to speed at the problems Europeans are encountering with their Muslim immigrants. Poll after poll in various countries in Europe demonstrate a large majority of those Muslim emigres have attitudes that undermine the principles of a secular democracy and are sympathetic to terror groups. Go Google it.

You treat immigration as some fundamental right, which it isn't. Typical lefty groupthink, any challenge to the multi-culti dogma of all inclusive immigration must immediately be motivated by racism.

The hypocrisy is that you would, I assume, be taking action if a sexual predator, crack house or property devaluating slob moved on your street. I assume you wouldn't want them in your neighborhood. Racist, frank? Get real.

frank - you are babbling in the pseudotalk of political correctness. You're talking like a programmed robot.

First, the two original nations have not forged a harmonious whole. Kindly consider that Quebec is unilingual; that it has a language police - got that, language police who charge and take to court anyone who puts up a sign in English (or any other language other than French); that it defines education by an inherited attribute (that's the basis of racism); namely, you can't go to an English school unless your parents did.

Furthermore, Canada isn't a vibrant union; it's divided into two distinct parts - with the ROC constantly having to bribe Quebec. Why do we have to bribe Quebec? Because we have given it enormous political power, far more than its population base merits. It has 75 seats in parliament; Alberta and BC with the same population have only 64. Its language rights are moved into territorial power, and Quebec is defined as politically equal to that of the English ROC, despite the fact that the ratio of population is 80% vs 20%.

And you naive view of multiculturalism is pure stupidity. 'True to different heritages and varied pasts, while sharing the same goals of a united country and a prosperous future". Good god; what utter vapid empty nonsense.

'True to different heritages'? Why should anyone wish to be a clone of their past? So, are you supporting the view of certain heritages that women are worthless, can't vote, mustn't be educated?

'Varied pasts'? Ahh, here comes the moral relativist, where all beliefs and behaviour are simply aspects of 'varied pasts'. So, the view that one should slaughter one's daughter for looking at a boy from another tribe, - you'll accept that as valid; as just evidence of being 'true to their heritage and varied past'. Heh.

United country? Rubbish. Tell that to the Quebec separatistes. How about the Bloc - some 40 odd members of our federal parliament, whom we idiot taxpayers are supporting who openly declare only one agenda - the rejection of a UNITED COUNTRY. Oh, and their agenda at the moment is to stay elected so that they can get THEIR PENSIONS from the ROC taxpayer. Some united country.

What about the Islamic groups who insist, not on a united legal system, but on their Sharia Law as the only law they will acknowledge? Hmmm?

Prosperous future? Political babbletalk.

How about some reality, Frank? But I suspect that you have been too thoroughly brainwashed by an Orwellian Animal Farm upbringing, to acknowledge reality.

Canada's immigration policy is a joke and I'm surprised that PMSH hasn't done anything to tighten it up; it would be simple to get rid of the "refugee" class of immigrants.

As a country we have every right to decide who comes into the country and there is a very low requirement for low IQ unskilled labor. One of the best screening tests would be an IQ test given to every potential immigrant with cutoff set at 100. I'm sure this would be attacked as racist, but 100 is about the minimum IQ one needs to be successful in a technologic society and it would be nice to keep Canada in this category.

One of the things that will almost guarantee increased violence is the presence of an economically marginalized group of immigrants. Allowing illiterate muslims into the country would mean that most of them would get unskilled, low paying jobs and would become frustrated at their inability to achieve the material prosperity they see around them. This pretty well guarantees that an islamofascist agitator would be able to convert many of them into terrorists. Generally people that are working and economically successfull have little desire to meet Allah until they've attained a ripe old age.

Immigration should provide a net economic benefit to the country. This means stopping the immigration of large extended families who usually have enough pathology present to rack up medical costs far in excess of any potential economic benefit produced by working members of the family. The incidence of psychopathology among immigrants is twice that in the Canadian population. Despit that, this probably a net benefit as the incidence of hypomania among immigrants makes them more productive than the stay at home population. There should be some mechanism to ensure that this abundent energy is channeled into economic or intellectual fields and not, for example, in organizing extortion schemes to collect money for the Tamil tigers. Having the charter of rights and freedoms apply only to citizens would be a start.

My experience of immigrants as a physician is probably biased as I rarely see the ones who are healthy and working full time. One thing I've noticed is that somatization is very common in poorly educated immigrants in menial jobs who have multiple vague work related injuries that are extremely difficult to treat. Part of it is probably secondary gain as they soon realize that all they have to do is injure their back and they're collecting WCB benefits for months and then they often get classified as "disabled" and are collecting welfare payments not much less than what they were making while working. I've been asked by perfectly healthy "refugee" claimants to come up with patently false medical diagnoses which I've refused at which point the "refugee" claiment seeks out another doctor more likely to provide them with a bogus medical problem which can't be treated in their country. I've diagnosed people with HIV which they had picked up in their country of origin, but was obviously not caught when they emigrated to Canada. In BC, antiretroviral drugs are provided for free and there are generous benefits for the HIV+ so why work?

Frank:

When exactly did this peace and love start? After the Lower Canada Rebellion? During the Quiet Revolution? During the FLQ crisis? Again... revisionist history. J'accuse!

Bribing your 3 year old with candy to stop crying doesn't mean you have a well behaved 3 year old. You've just taught him/her that crying will get him/her candy. That is the essence of Quebec/ROC relations once English Canada stopped warring with French Canada.

I'm correcting myself. Re-reading what I wrote, omit "majority", alarmingly large minority of "those Muslim emigres have attitudes that undermine the principles of a secular democracy and are sympathetic to terror groups" is what I should have stated.

It's such a pleasure to be able to do this:

Comment by frank blocked. [unkill]​[show comment]

http://userscripts.org/scripts/show/4107
Provides a killfile for certain blogs.

loki, from my perch in mental health, we have far too many immigrants and illegals that are non-compliant with treatment, don't have the sophistication if son is a schizophrenic/Bipolar to understand the medical model for the disease and treatment, have substance abuse issues, whose cultural paradigm is at variance with treament and good mental health. I'm not going to name the worst offenders.

I just heard a blurb on the news about the blatant abuse of US public schools by Mexicans. They send their kids across the border daily in border towns. (El Paso was blurb setting. I've walked that border crossing, easy, 20 minutes, many times.) US schools are forbidden to inquire about legal status. I can understand hospitals, schools aren't life and death situations. One billion dollars alone in Texas spent yearly on this nonsense. Try that stunt going the opposite direction. Mexico would have your kid headed home before lunch.

I wonder if frank's neighbors just came in and raided his fridge as needed how he would feel about that? If they were black or Hispanic and frank grumbled, would frank be a racist? Would ya, frank?

Speaking of immigration what are your thoughts on the French electing Sarkozy as one of his main planks was to restrict it and crack down on immigrant crime? I wonder if this is an indication of the fear of the rising muslim flood of immigrants?

Kate wrote: It may not be scientific, but it'll be a lot bigger sample size than SES took.

Bah, who needs science? If your goal is to find out what your readers think then you've done a great job. If you goal is to find out what Canadians think... well, ok then you would need science.

Hmmm. Too bad the Conservatives have really opened things up so as to bring in more conservative voters eh? Well, at least you guys have one thing in common... you all hate progressive thought. Maybe you should have a big hate-in potluck?

There is no such thing as progressive thought. That's just a fancy way of saying, "ideas that agree with mine."

With regards to immigration, I don't hate indiscriminately, John. But I also don't love unconditionally, either, unless we're talking about my niece and my kitty.

ET said... "The questions, in my view, are invalid. That's because they are set up in a frame known as the Either-Or, Black and White or False Dilemma Fallacy."

That reminds me of "you're either with us or against us". Nuance is bad.

"The way in which English and French arrived here and set aside their old-world battlefield hostilities to resolve their disagreements in a shared political system,"

Let's add delusional revisionst retard of the week award to Frank as well...who's schooling obviously missed the first 150 years of Canadian history where French and English were fighting on this continent for territory and exploitation rights...they employed the native population into these wars. The Final victory was won over France on the Plains of Abraham...next we went to war against American republicans and employed the willing native population in that war as well...Canada was forged in battle and secured by right of conquest by the British crown... Frank...were you in a bong-enduced coma for history class or what?