Last I checked, Canadian troops are there to help a new, independent, sovereign government get up and running. I don't recall any mandate, whether explicit or implicit, requiring that Canadian troops serve as enforcers for the United Nations (or, for that matter, liberals from the United States) at the expense of the Afghani government.

At any rate, the squawk that's surrounded the Canadian mission has been useful in exposing which political party houses the closet imperialists. To remind: "imperialism" means the ability to interfere in another nation's sovereign authority without any reciprocation.

Anyone want to take any bets that none of prestigious Canadian media will not report this DND new release?

Looks like the media wants to cover up their lousy reporting skills or cover up their blatant Conservative government bashing!

I've already written to CTV/Mike Duffy, the Globe, and Ottawa Citizen.

As far as I am concerned this news release should be front page story!

outside of the PPG, a handful of socialist legal professors who moonlight as NDP policy wonks and a few front bench Liberals who care not a whit for the side smear job on our troops, NOBODY in Canada gives a flying foo-foo about this issue.

its all inside baseball crap that the self approving class things is important.

Clearly a biased antagonistic media feeding frenzie on the CAF by hostile left journalists and Dipper demagogues who jumped the gun willfully on an exagerated alligation/accusation made by a known communist radical from BC.

Tempest in a teapot.

I think all the media and Dipper CAF detractors who were willing to believe the worst about our forces should be branded as the seditious rodents they are.

This will quickly be forgotten as this doesn't support the media's assertion that the torture crisis is all the conservative party's fault.

The real story is that once again the conservatives are cleaning up a liberal mess...

a more suitable title for this post would be:

brace yourself for a flurry of skepticism

no one believes o'connor, harper, mackay, or hillier. why should we believe this cat? because he's a lt-general? whatever...

The media smear campaign against the Canadian Forces reveals the media's prejudice and bias. And it is disgusting. Especially when the media refuses to question the original sources of the smears - such as leftist Muslim professors. Canadians are poorly served by a narrow minded agenda driven media class that firmly believes it is better than everyone else.

Actually, this sounds more like a ham-handed cover-up.

The CF questioned him, and then later "discovered" him in an Afghan jail. They arrested him again and transferred him to another Afghan jail.

Are you kidding me? The CF is now ferrying prisoners from one Afghan prison to another? WTF!

Were there other such discoveries? Or CF enabled transfers?

Who believes this crap?

I think the most accurate assessment I've heard and the one thing the liberals and liberal friendly/owned/run media are most guilty of is not remembering and learning from the past. We have freedom today because entire nations got behind an idea and our counrty put aside the bullsh!t and fought off world wide naziism. The liberals and media are the first to throw that word out there when describing Harper, Blair, Bush, etc,... when talking about how the war on terror has dragged on or is injust, or how we don't belong there, etc. Going in we all knew it wouldn't be a walk in the park. This is the fight for our lives or a way of life know as open and free society. But getting back to earlier comments regarding learning from history... if the media continues to undermine the mission in our own country and report only on a few negative things and spin them to look like our troops did the wrong thing then we vilify our own troops and the bad guys win... ever hear of a little war the Americans were in called Vietnam??? Our goal in Afganistan is to give these people things like clean water, schools, agriculture other then serving druglords, law and order(not the tv show) and democracy...you know, the out dated belief that the majority rules and not just the elitists or the ones with military might. To do this we need to use military might against a foe that unlike Germany, Japan, Italy under Musilini, the USSR, etc, fights without rank, without fixed military location, mixes into the daily populus, has no set unitform, and uses the people fear and terror as a weapon. It's unfortunate that along the way one or two people might get ruffed up along the way but compare that to the tens of thousands of people Sadam had out right shot and look at the number of regular civilian casualties the Talaban inflict and I think having one person out of thousands being wrongfully detained is a small price to pay.

The media has to start reporting all the facts and stop jumping our own people so they are judged unfairly before all the real facts come out. They have become more a piece of entertainment fluff these days then journalist, all looking for the fast front page story. Rather then reporting facts, they will write their own facts to get that front page bonus.

Just remember everybody that Christ never sat down and ate with the journalists for a reason.

Tax collectors and prostitutes yes, but never journalists.

Skeptical - did you know that 35% of Democrats believe Bush knew of the 9/11 plan in advance? Something tells me you'd number in that group, too.

Think about what you said for a bit, Jeff..."no one believes o'connor, harper, mackay, or hillier. why should we believe this cat? because he's a lt-general?"

You're not willing to believe the government or the armed forces, but you are willing to believe journalists? What makes THEM so special that they are worthy of belief? What makes YOU so special that you are worthy of belief?

You won't believe "x" but you are willing to believe "y" and "z"...why?

You're a blind fool, methinks.

Colonel Noonan was the Government's witness (under reported fact), that was the first clue that there was more to story.
Second clue, after Noonan's sworn affidavit, PMSH still maintained that there were no specific allegations of abuse.

But as usual, Lib/Dipper/Bloc remain clueless.

Colonel Noonan was the Government's witness (under reported fact), that was the first clue that there was more to story.
Second clue, after Noonan's sworn affidavit, PMSH still maintained that there were no specific allegations of abuse.

But as usual, Lib/Dipper/Bloc remain clueless.

jeff, you are so blinded by your ideology and hatred for the CF, the current government, and all that they stand for , that you are so willing to paint anyone in the military as foolish liars and idiots. You are more apt to believe journalist to tell the truth, give me a break !!!

If the Liberal media, the NDP/Liberals and the BLOC , the human rights rabid zanies advising these parties and then masquerading under titles such as amnesty int. etc. REALLY cared about torture, and REALLY wanted to do something about it then may I suggest they support NATO in wiping out the terrorists and radicals like the Taliban and AlQueda.

These thugs TORTURE WOMEN, CHILDREN, OLD MEN, YOUNG MEN WHO WON'T FOLLOW THEM.
Do we forget????

If the media really wanted to help with "human rights" they would air the stories and realities that our soldiers see every day.

They would show and talk about the beheaded teachers, the little girl who had all ten fingers chopped off for wearing nail polish, the woman who had her feet amputated for wearing white shoes, the elderly man who had both of his hands chopped off for playing a musical instrument, the village elders hung upside down on posts to die, the decapitated heads of citizens erected on posts, the spectator "sport" of stoning women in public arenas, and the list of atrocities goes on and on and on.

Lest we forget WHY we are there and WHAT we are fighting for.

Katie wrote: Skeptical - did you know that 35% of Democrats believe Bush knew of the 9/11 plan in advance? Something tells me you'd number in that group, too.

I know you can read, so you must know that too. After all, Bush received a CIA PDB that warned of a Qaeda plot to do something "spectacular" on US soil. True, nobody drew pictures of the precise plot, but you know! Bush also received thousands of warnings on Iraq which he managed to ignore, and we all know what happened (BTW, I haven't read any "freedom-on-the-march-in-Iraq" posts from you recently: please don't tell me even you have seen the light :-)).

It is possible to be a conservative and still be objective and capable of independent thought.

Put your pom-poms down and try it for a while. You might like it.

Funny how:

1) we were in Afg'stan when the Libs were in power, taking prisoners and such, and

2) "global warming" exhisted when the Libs were in power,

yet nothing from the media demanding answers, alleging incompetence on these issues then.

A double standard is an understatement.

Particularlily on the latter issue, global warming, the Libs weren't held to any standards, whereas now, even the most far reaching legislation on this issue in our Nation's history is viewed as environmental blasphemy.

Unreal.

Skeptical:

The British government has also received briefings from its intelligence agencies about possible Qaeda attacks in England. Are you saying they're in on the plot as well? If so, who else is in on this plot? Enquiring minds want to know.

Yes the media are biased on this. Yes the opposition is torquing this issue to the detriment of Canadian national interests. Yes, Yes, Yes.

But --- Harper's team have botched this thing from the beginning. The first response to questions from the opposition on day 1 of this story should have been:

"Currently, we are operating under a transfer agreement signed by the previous Liberal government. If there are allegations of abuse, we will look into them, discuss them with our Afghan counterparts, and if necessary enhance the existing Liberal agreement."

Every. Single. Cabinet. Minister. Should. Have. Said. The. Same. Damn. Thing ... until the new agreement was signed, at which point they could say ..."in response to recent unsubstantiated allegations of torture, the Conservatives have enhanced the previous Liberal transfer agreement. Thank-you, next question."

This has been Exhibit A of botched communications - now Harper wears this mess. The Conservatives have just been feeding the story with all their contradictions.

Glancing at the headlines in Canadian newspapers you see:

“Colonel confirms Afghan prisoner beaten” - ChronicleHerald.ca, Canada - 6 hours ago.

A more accurate headline would have been:
“Canadian troops in Kandahar rescue prisoner from Afghan police”

Both would sell papers but one has an agenda.

Video out showing a 17 yr old girl being stoned to death because she loved someone of the wrong religion. I have not, nor will I, watch this. How many people does it take to stone someone to death. Is it one person throwing lots of stones, or the general population thowing one each, like those watching public lynchings yrs ago in the US. Those thinking Bush new all about 9/11 and somehow involved in the planning are the same ones calling him a dumb cowboy. Did he have all those plans ready in case he won in Nov 2000 and took office in Jan 2001. Did he know, before his election who he would appoint to his cabinet, and how did he know that the senate would confirm them. I would be more prepared to believe that Clinton knew lots more than he admits. He and gore had eight years to get information. Perhaps he planned it, knowing a republican would be elected, and waited to put his plan in place, to blame it on Republicans. Remember, he received much money from people that are now in jail.
Has anyone ever checked into the dates the saudis enrolled in flying schools.

mtaylor wrote: Are you saying they're in on the plot as well?

I am not accusing Bush (and Blair in the case of the Iraq debacle) of complicity. I am accusing them of incompetence and lying.

Blair will be gone in a few days, anyway, and the withdrawl of British troops from Iraq (and possibly from Afghanistan) will begin almost immediately.

After what these Taliban types did the people of Afghanistan I could care less what the Afghan government does to them. Of course our soldiers shouldn't participate in this but oh well what can you do. Remember the Buddhists statue? What a shame.

Skeptical and others, the communication snafu v.v. Tories was of minor nature, totally blown out of proportion. Then when facts come out, within 2 days of latest "revelation," now your ilk is "skeptical."

When you have contrary evidence, bring it forward; otherwise, shut up. You're hurting the troops in the field, who are on an honourable mission. The opposition have made many factual errors too, where is your indignation against them?

Shamrock - yes, I am indignant against the opposition, as I said in my original post. They are acting beneath contempt, implicitly (or explicitly in some cases) accusing our soldiers of breaching the Geneva Convention.

But ---- as I said earlier ---- Harper is the government and he could of swatted this down with ease. Instead, he let the Globe and Citoyen Dion control the agenda. It was a pretty poor performance.

Half the battle of governing is looking competent ... they haven't looked that way in the last few weeks. It's a shame, since they could have swatted this manufactured "crisis" down within a day, and actually put egg on the Liberal's collective face, since it's their damn transfer agreement the military is using until Harper had it enhanced.

Yada, yes Tories goofed on this one. But, why has that become the story. On latest, incident fully explained - nothing from opposition or MSM - nothing. Then we have people saying they are skeptical when they are given the facts. Once again, Tories criticized by opposition for not fixing Lib mess. Oh, God the hypocrisy of it all. Meanwhile, our media practices selective use of "facts" to discredit government, rather than get to bottom of any real problem.

Now Tories must go on offensive, and stay there. Opposers have given them plenty of material. Spend some of that money on media defending our troops; challenge Libs to force election EVERY DAY, call their bluff; get on with legislative agenda and, again, threaten election of opposoweenies don't cooperate.

OR, ELECTION RIGHT NOW.

Ya just gotta luv leftoids. They gleefully tout that some intel about something "big" was up so therefore bush should have figured out what, where and when it was all to go down. Of course, he was not allowed to infringe on any perceived "rights". Oh yeah, that information was to be acted upon but the intel of WMD shouldn't have been believed. Can't have it both ways.

Yada Yada "appropriate name" It is easy to manage stiuations from behind a key board with hindsite as a guide.

WL MacKenzie Redux: "Clearly a biased antagonistic media feeding frenzie on the CAF by hostile left journalists and Dipper demagogues who jumped the gun willfully on an exagerated alligation/accusation made by a known communist radical from BC."

Who are you saying is a "known communist radical from BC"? Steve Noonan?

This is fun to watch.

The Left, led by the media is just hammering away at Mr. Harper and his government. Facts are irrelevant, the end game is to bring down the Evil Forces of the Right.

Does anyone really believe any of this crap is sticking. Oh yeah, the polls are leveling off. As though the Canadian electorate actually gives a rat's ass at the moment.

I especially enjoyed the comment I heard on TSN the other night. One of the talking head ex-athletes commenting on the Shane Doan fiasco referenced Mr. Layton. "Who is this idiot?" Beautiful.

The Left will bear the embarrassment of the silly affair.

From my perspective Mr. Doan and his family have handled the whole issue with candidacy and class. Something that our elected officials surely lacked.

Mr. Harper and his government may be temporarily stumbling, this will pass. Does anyone believe Canadians beyond the chattering classes actually give a shit about Taliban detainees?

Thank-you for posting this Kate. Thanks to you, thousands of your readers will once again know the truth and we will watch to see if the msm will correct their egregious distortion of 'the news'.
Thank-you Lorraine and Mr. Ed and others who have posted many good points above. In this country, we call our star hocky players on the block for alledged slurs about a referee call in a hockey game; we have no clue about the horrors of living in a Taliban/Soviet occupied country. We do not understand what our troops are up against in Afganistan either. I often see the frustration on the face on Mr. O'Connor when he is answering the inane questions of the naive, childish opposition members and the msm - Mr. O'Connor is a former soldier.
As for the horrors in Iraq under the Liberanos - has everyone already 'forgotten' why Canada did not support President Bush and the Coalition of the Willing? Our government (PMPM Liberanos) of the day was involved in a oil-for -food scam with Ol' Mo as head of the gang of crooks to bankrupt the affluent western democracies, by giving Saddam $$ for oil INSTEAD of food; Saddam sold the oil cheap for cash and the scammers sold the oil on the free market! France, Germany, Canada, and Russia, via the UN, were busy enriching certain 'elites'. That outfit planned to reduce us to the state slave level (so we could not squawk!) and put us all in cities in Habitat for humanity cells - in Canada - I am not making this up!

The global warming thingie was a set -up to further the impoverishment of the Free nations of the world. There was no 'plan' in the Liberano camp because they had no intention to reduce polution or 'hot air' - their 'plan' was to bankrupt the oil companies through 'carbon taxes! - put All oil producing provinces back on their knees (that would have included YOU Danny boy - why do you think Paul Martin gave you that 'deal?)
It is all a web, involving the same people and the end result was to be state (global slavery). The webs are unravelling now - Mr. Howard, Mr. Bush, Mr. Blair and Mr. Harper have been champions for the Free Citizens of the world - the Bolshevick loving msm are in a flap because their Masters are demanding that the powerful media 'do something'. The bloggers - like Kate, Angry in the Great White North, WS, Jacks Newswatch, LGF, The Captain at Captains Quarters, posters laike Mazz2 etc, are challanging the msm spin every day - It is making a HUGE difference and I thank you all, once again, from my Freedom loving heart and soul.

Well said Jema! What Jema said, in SPADES!
GOD BLESS.

Jeff's nihilism accusues: "no one believes o'connor, harper, mackay, or hillier. why should we believe this cat? because he's a lt-general? whatever..."

By the extention of that logic why would the media believe a narrow-minded neo-communist, Fed-hater like Bryant who made the exagerated accusations? Why belive him sight unseen and publish reams of speculative innuendo condemning our forces, its leadership of "torture" and trying to tack the stink onto the current government....whay should I belive them until the facts were investigated????

Pfffttt partsan axe grinders are so friking boring and so predictable in their conditioned responses. Don't get off your meds again obviously delusion is preferable to reality for you.

The Canadian MSM can be likened to the Goebbelian Nazi propagandists, in their tactics to undermine the country for their Liberal masters.

It's obvious to those of us who recognize the conspiracy between the MSM and the Liberals, that Canada is in the clutches of an insidious evil, that is attempting to demonize and deceive.

I think it's necessary to uncover and eliminate this devious and evil MSM cabal of Liberal journalists and reporters who are misleading Canadians and damaging Canada.

WL Mackenzie Redux:

"Clearly a biased antagonistic media feeding frenzie on the CAF by hostile left journalists and Dipper demagogues who jumped the gun willfully on an exagerated alligation/accusation made by a known communist radical from BC."

"By the extention of that logic why would the media believe a narrow-minded neo-communist, Fed-hater like Bryant"

So are the "known communist radical from BC" and the "neo-communist" the same person? The divergent nature of the descriptions would suggest not but one never knows. Please clarify.

You know - it just dawned on me about this whole "detainee torture" trumped up story.

It is the MEDIA who were scammed!!! It was a wham bam media scam and every single major media outlet in this country FELL FOR IT.

Scarier still - all 3 opposition parties in our parliament - more than 150 so called "defenders" of us the people fell for it hook line and sinker.

Here's the tag team:

The Taliban telling tales of torture to a gullible Globe & Mail REPORTER (as per the Taliban training handbook) to undermine our troops and shake our resolve.

Backed up by the shreiks and even law suits by the unelected REAL NDP defence critic Ottawa lawyer who uses Jack Layton and Dawn Black as his talking head puppets and does not disclose his affiliation to the GULLIBLE MEDIA

Added to by Liberal Mr. Ignatieff's former Harvard roomate abawhatever who also does not disclose his affiliation to the media.

Backed up by so called "Defence and Foreign affairs" insiders who not only don't disclose their affiliation but not even their names to the GULLIBLE MEDIA.

Then gleefully reported by such Gullible media as Gloria Galloway (who does not disclose she is married to a Liberal staffer) and Jeffery Simpson (who does not disclose his SON is a Liberal staffer).

And then all of this is dutifully reported ad nauseum, even on open line talk shows like CPAC as "newsworthy facts"., a Conservative "crisis"; blah blah blah.

The Canadian media - so blinded and such sheep that they have been duped by one of the most henious terrorist groups in the world AND one of the most corrupt political parties this country has ever had (Liberals ) and a whole whack of latter day peacenik hippies who get their money and podium just for being peacenik hippies (NDP and followers).

This story should be unwound in journalism schools on how the Western MEDIA is so out of touch that they can be manipulated like silly putty.

I watched the CTV online clip and was irate over the fact that this was just one more "Allegation" trying to support the original "Allegation" by the Globe & Mail's Greame Smith who admitted Village Elders "Alleged" they heard of Alleged abuse by people "Allegeing they saw prisoners leaving the jail with bruises from "Alleged" torture and abuse.

This week in the House was a farce and showed how the opposition trough-feeding idiots that are so angry at nothing to harp at they resort to holding a Trial-by-media that cost taxpayers $12 million dollars for what it did to Maher Arar.
Jack Layton was a crusader for Arar and now is the crusader to exalt the Taliban and label our Soldiers War-Criminals , Layton also had chosen to convict Shane Doan 14 months after he was cleared of the flicking-frog slur that was heard but didn't come from Shane.

Jack , so basically you are confirming that just because Maher Arar and his Wife couldn't be proven to have ties to Hamas and Terrorism and O'Connor believed they were innocent, that doesn't mean the Arar's AREN'T guilty of the Allegations.

Thanks for clearing that up, you own Taxpayers $12'000'000.00 dollars plus the Inquiry costs since the NDP aided and abetted suspected Terrorists raise money for Al-Qaeda by following the Al-Qaeda handbook to "Allege" toture and then seek Political help to smear people in the media and Sue the host Nation or any Government linked to a possible onus for allowing the Torture or not stopping it.
If the NDP felt the Arar's were guilty then it is Treason for Olivia and Jack to help a Terrorist get funds to Allegedly support Middle East terrorism.

Layton hangs out Shane to be tried by media as assumed guilty, but Svend Robinson is caught on video actually stealing a $60'000.00 dollars ring
and only when the evidence was presented 2 days later , he then blames it on Homophobic-stress
and is afforded the luxury of reporting himself to the RCMP and asking them to come to HIS home to keep this quiet and confess in private ,and even after that , Layton sends in Libby-Lesbian to comfort Svend at a bogus press conference to play the Victim and blow his nose on-cue .
Layton also allowed this Convicted felon to return to the NDp and run in the 2006 Election.

Mr.Layton , if Svend did stage one more of his cheap ruses to exploit the Courts for a light sentence, Svend if Guilty of Insurance Fraud for collecting STD and LTD benefits while fabricating his illness and misleading a Doctor to prescribe medication to fool the Underwriters for a condition created by a Crime and not job related Health Coverage .
Svend is quickly fleeing the Country for France and I'm guessing he doesn't want to be dragged into a Court to admit he really isn't getting married and when he divorced his wife it was for Political reason by pretending to be Gay so he could get away with endless Hissy-fits and tirades for the cameras.
Short-term disability and Long-term are for valid illness unrelated to crimes or Natural disasters where Public medicine coverage is used for treatment on unpaid Leave to secure your job for returning.
Pretty rich for the NDP to now try to take the moral highgound on someone proven innocent on a alleged slur , you can't have it both ways like the stance to ban Trans-fats because of obesity while Libby Davies waddles into the House after the doorways are greased to push her through, and yet she became a Lesbian after her Husband died ,similar to Svend becoming Gay once his divorce from his Wife was final.

we should start to take them out ...one by one

and let's have election ....i want it now now i want it all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"and let's have election ....i want it now now i want it all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

HAHAHAHA!!

The Conservatives have done a superb job demonstrating their incompetence on this issue (and other issues like the environment, but I don't want to go off topic). Making up policy on the run while putting out contradictory stories about what is (or should be) going on. Then claiming that criticising these lies is criticizing the troops, etc. Typical right wingers: refusing to take responsibility for the mess that they created. Don't hide behind the troops, you LOSERS!! No one is blaming the troops, just the incompetent leadership that they have to suffer under.

It says alot about the Cons when a scandalized opposition party with an erratic and incomprehensible leader is doing just as well in the polls as the current government.

Sorry, george, Lorraine has it right. Can't have it both ways; right is always accused of conflict of interest.

To all you after the fact mouthpieces out there here's a challenge for you.

Canada will be attacked by terrorists.

Now you're in charge so protect every last one of us and if anyone dies or you in any way breach the charter you go to jail.

So put your money where your bucket mouths are or in the future just shut up because you have no idea what you are talking about.

Iberia, I guess arguing that Cdn combat soldiers are war criminals - while conveniently forgetting cruel pigs like the minority Taliban currently pillaging Afghan people - is supporting the troops.

Spare me, the troops don't think you support them; that's what matters. Simple human dignity.

BTW - "It says alot about the Cons when a scandalized opposition party with an erratic and incomprehensible leader is doing just as well in the polls as the current government."

Yes it does. It tells me a lot of Canadians either haven't even heard of Dionsky, or really seen him in action. That's why Libs are at 30% with Tories. That will change the minute he opens his mouth in an election campaign.

Besides, he has made a critical error in focussing on envirovote (most of whom won't vote Tory anyway). That's likely because he is incapable of articulating other policy areas, preferring to ad lib and stumble.

He, with Layton and gang, will be pilloried on Doan affair, but get away with soldiers are war criminals backstab.

Pretty soon, election or not, Dion will have to take some risks, not his area of strength. He needs to grow, by election day, by at least 5% to have any chance of being PM. I don't think he has it. That's why he won't force an election, preferring to wait for 09.

Over in Torydom, the staffers are reeling from being shown up by a Lib factoid-smear, though even CBC says not even close to previous Lib's corruption and incompetence. They are secretly hoping Dion stupid enough to force election, but blithly resign themselves for full-on for the liberal smear for power default setting.

Maybe the Canadian people will demand an election.

Re: The media -remember the CBC reporter who bragged that THEY make or break ALL politicians. Bragged that THEY (the media) made Trudeau, Mulroney, Chretien, Martin and then this reporter said about Harper "WE (the media) made HIM and WE (the media) can BREAK him".

Perhaps this invented story was a dry run?

If the media does not trumpet the other side of the story (the truth) as diligently as they propagated the lies the mud sticks.

And THEY (the media) prove once again that THEY control all of US - the stupid, gullible easily fooled voting public.

SAD?

"I guess arguing that Cdn combat soldiers are war criminals..."

Perhaps you could provide some examples of people who are actually saying that Canadian soldiers ARE war criminals.

The issue at hand is about the (lack of) leadership by O'Connor, Day and Harper and how the soldiers could be implicated in what might be considered to be a war crime. The Cons, being the tough talking chicken shits that they are, try to deflect any criticism of themselves by saying any criticism at all is criticism of the troops. What crap. Canadians are seeing through this.

And a previous poster was right: this would have all blown over if the Cons weren't so busy making up stories to cover up their incompetence and lack of knowledge on this issue.

I wonder what our idiotic lefties want us to do?

Our allies in the area lag behind us, culturally speaking, by about 700 years. Our enemies lag behind by about 1400.

We should turn some of our NDP idiots over for some of this treatment, it would make Canada a better place.

It is so sad that we care more about the rights of the Taliban than we do of the little girls the Taliban would kill for the crime of learning to read.

I am a Canadian. I love it hear. And yes, I am a proud liberal.

But I sometimes wonder about the MSM moral compass.

Iberia "And a previous poster was right: this would have all blown over if the Cons weren't so busy making up stories to cover up their incompetence and lack of knowledge on this issue."

You're talking about your own post! Only an idiot doesn't know term bandied about the left like marxist candy. Funny how your complicity crap doesn't need direct evidence. Typical leftymoonbat double standard.

"The Cons, being the tough talking chicken shits that they are, try to deflect any criticism of themselves by saying any criticism at all is criticism of the troops. What crap. Canadians are seeing through this."

Nice evidentiary trail there, Iberia. That's how the troops see it, nothing else matters. That's what Canadians will see, like Bill Good said on Friday, the focus is on the wellbeing of the troops, not the Taliban thugs. So good luck with that one.

Sounds like you're the one making it up as you go along.

For those who 'concede' that Harper and the CPC did not handle the 'faux detainee torture' accusations...are you basing that conclusion on so called 'reports' from MSM?
I watched HoC proceedings on CPAC...the media reports did not match the goings on the HoC.
eg. Our local birdcage liner described the CPC as 'in shambles' over the issue. In fact they were cool and calm and the Libs were hollering and screaming. Jennings was embarrassing.
(I'm sorry I didn't see McKay's assertive response)
And CTV's handling of the Shane Doan affair was typical. Fifer of course bashed Harper.No surprise there.
Not really off topic...a few retail outlets locally have booths giving away free TO Star's...
they weren't going fast.

"But --- Harper's team have botched this thing from the beginning..."

Posted by: yadayada at May 5, 2007 11:43 AM

Talking about my own post, am I shamrock?

"Only an idiot doesn't know term bandied about the left like marxist candy. Funny how your complicity crap doesn't need direct evidence."

What the hell is that supposed to mean? Stop ranting and provide proof: who has said that Canadian soldiers ARE war criminals?

Rather than admit ignorance, Harper says "I can understand that the leader of the Opposition and members of his party feel for Taliban prisoners. I just wish occasionally they’d show the same passion for Canadian soldiers." That's right out of the George W. Bush, "You're either with us or, you're with the terrorists" play book.

Iberia: provide direct evidence of Canadians participating in abuse of prisoners, war crimes, torture. Otherwise, STFU.

"Typical right wingers: refusing to take responsibility for the mess that they created. Don't hide behind the troops, you LOSERS!!"

Taken from your post.

You're such a hypocrite, with your blind bobblehead adherance to your loony lefty friends, accusing others of being dogmatic.

You slam away, time and again, defending anything left, then demand proof to any counterargument. That's any old Lib trick that doesn't work anymore. I will challenge your garbage everytime.

Put your money where your mouth is and tell us you want an election, since Stephen Harper, the big fat meanie, is such a bad leader.

You need to spend some time in a room with a Taliban "freedom fighter."

shamrock:

Show me where I ever wrote that Canadian soldiers ARE committing war crimes. Show me where any opposition member said that Canadian soldiers ARE committing war crimes.

This whole issue is about what policies the Canadian government has in order to prevent the possibility of being charged with a war crime. When asked, O'Connor didn't have an answer so he made one up. He is incompetent and he should be fired. Day brought forward his own misinformation about prison guards, etc., so the same goes for him. Dear Fat Leader can't admit that his government doesn't know what it is doing, so he and his sycophants are trying to spin this into an attack on the soldiers. Pathetic.

And if you ask me, the media has been much too soft on the Harper gang's failings on this issue.

SDA scooped CP, Canadian Press, aka MSM.

Seriously, it's the start of the MSM flurry of ...; prob'ly the only.
...-

Defence Department issues clarification on Afghan prisoner abuse testimony

OTTAWA (CP) - The Canadian Forces has released more details about an incident in which soldiers in Afghanistan intervened to save a civilian who was being abused.

Reports of the June 2006 incident, taken from court transcripts, caused an uproar in the Commons on Friday.

Lt.-Gen. Walter Natynczyk, the Vice-Chief of the Defence Staff, said Saturday that the way the incident has been portrayed is inaccurate. [...]

In a statement released late Saturday, Natynczyk said there was no indication of torture.

It is the first time the military has provided this kind of clarification about the controvery involving detainees. ...-
http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/War_Terror/2007/05/05/4156764-cp.html

No Iberia, they're not quite that stupid. They got their press friends to say it for them. I'm still waiting for your evidence of Canadian military complicity in war crimes, mistreatement and torture.

Now you want Cdns to believe "whole issue is about what policies the Canadian government has in order to prevent the possibility of being charged with a war crime." God, are you that naive. Why has this come up now; wouldn't when the LIBERALS wrote the policy have been a better time to review its shortcomings. After all, this is supposed to be about protecting the soldiers. Yeah right. You and opposoweanies just want a head on a wall to curry cheap votes.

We're supposed to get out of Afghanistan NLT 09, but apparently they can't be trusted to handle criminals (Oh, God, where is my link).

Get this straight, you don't speak for soldiers. Look forward to next election when that Libs explain - "we were just looking out for the troops." Sorry, Libs now tied into moonbat "can't we just give peace a chance" dipper types on this issue. Have fun with it. Liberia, just curious, do you want election now?

On CTV website:

''DND issues clarification on Afghan abuse story
Updated Sat. May. 5 2007 7:45 PM ET

Canadian Press
.... It was initially suggested the man had been captured by Canadian soldiers. (right, suggested without fact, by the media)

But Natynczyk said that's not the case and the individual had simply been questioned by soldiers in the village of Zangabad, 50 kilometres southwest of Kandahar.

The incident was used as illustration by Opposition parties (promted by MSM, I'd say) that Canadian soldiers had handed prisoners over to abusive Afghan authorities, contrary to assurances by the Conservative government that no such incident had taken place...'' (and PMSH was called a liar, if I remember correctly)

Opposition parties need to click the clues:
1. Noonan was the Government's witness.
2. PMSH maintained the 'no torture' story, after Noonan testimony.

Libs, if PMSH stands up in the House and won't budge....check your sources.

Read the statement posted by kate, then read CTV web report.They still want to spin it with "well... yeah...but...what about the other 30 that (media and lefties) claim were tortured"...(my paraphrasing)

"They got their press friends to say it for them."

Provide some proof.

"I'm still waiting for your evidence of Canadian military complicity in war crimes, mistreatement and torture."

shamrock, WTF is your problem? I ask you AGAIN: show me where I wrote that Canadian soldiers ARE complicit in war crimes.

"Why has this come up now?"

Oh, I don't know...perhaps it's because O'Connor was asked about it and he lied, then Day lied and now Harper is trying to deflect attention from these lies by calling anyone who ask questions a "traitor."

I never said that I speak for the soldiers, but then again, you don't speak for them either, so what's your point?

Oh, and I could care less if there is an election called now. We'll just end up with another minority government.

Exile: My bad...the protagonist in this torture farse was not "Bryant" but "Michael Byers" a former card carying commie from UBC's Poli-sci cesspool now attached to the BC Dippers .

Everyone: He's not "Iberia" he's "lberia", that is to say Lavrenty Beria, the Soviet secret police chief and mass murderer:
http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/RUSberia.htm

Heinrich Himmler's evil twin. And this malignant person thinks it amusing to sign himself thus. I still await his signing as "hhimmmler".

Mark
Ottawa

WL Mackenzie Redux: More on Prof. Byers:

toyoufromfailinghands.blogspot.com/2007/05/i-guess-context-doesnt-matter-anymore.html
transmontanus.blogspot.com/2007/05/another-take-on-alibi-room-afstan.html
toyoufromfailinghands.blogspot.com/2007/02/afstan-poop-from-professor-bilge-from.html

Mark
Ottawa

Are you happy now, Mark?

Seems to me that when you're in a war, if you support the enemy, take their side in argument and defend their statements, that does make you one of them and to call a spade a spade or an enemy and enemy, is just telling it like it is.

Harper says "I can understand that the leader of the Opposition and members of his party feel for Taliban prisoners. I just wish occasionally they’d show the same passion for Canadian soldiers." That's right out of the George W. Bush, "You're either with us or, you're with the terrorists" play book.

Strange Brew

The media is so fair and balanced they voted to economically harm Israel.

"on 13 April as the UK's National Union of Journalists (NUJ) voted at its annual meeting for a boycott of Israeli goods as part of a protest against last year's Lebanon war."

http://www.honestreporting.com/articles/45884734/critiques/UK_Journalists_Union_Votes_to_Boycott_Israel.asp

I would be curious to hear a legal opinion from someone with the proper expertise on the following questions.
Afganistan is a sovereign country with a legitimate government duely recognized by the international community. Afganistan has the same internal legal powers of control and process that any other country exercises over its citizens and the full and unfettered right to protect itself from individual foreign invaders. Of course subject to any International treaties Afganistan has signed.
Question 1 is can NATO (under a UN mandate) legally detain an Afgan national on Afganistans' soil and refuse to hand that person over to the legitimate agents of that Afgan government upon request without engaging in the illegal detension (making a legitimate military capture into a civilian kidnapping) of that individual? Can the Geneva Conventions truly be appled by local NATO forces to an Afgan native captured on Afgan territory and in the legal control of their sovereign Afgan Governmental powers? - if there is systematic abuse ( and if Afganistan is signatory to the revelant treaties) surely it needs to be dealt with at a much more senior level i.e. the UN. If NATO were to remove Afgan Taliban or Afgan drug lords or ordinary Afgan criminals from Afganistan territory is this truly not an act of war against Afganistan? An outrage of international treaty and diplomacy?
My question 2 deals with individual foreign fighters captured in Afganistan. These folk by definition are engaged in an act of the most extreme criminal violence against the Afgan people and Government; does not the Afgan government have the legal precedence and priority in the holding and even execution of these invaders? Could a country like Canada lawfully either remove these folk from our ally Afganistan or sequester them on Afgan soil and refuse to hand them on to Afgan authorities on request? With no strings attached? Again with any treaty abuses needing to be dealt with at a much higher level than that available to even NATO Command in Brussels.
What legal precedents came out of Korea where Korean nationals were captured and held by UN Forces vis a vis Synmann Rhees' government? (and where the control of captured communists was a major ongoing problem that involved hundreds of murders and tortures perpetrated by the Communists themselves against their more docile or POW rules obedient fellow prisoners; and the subsequent attempts by MP's to reestablish order)
Or other UN actions where the military ( chapters 5 vs 7) operation was on the soil of a legitimate and competent member government?
I am quite curious about this because,
I am no expert.
Robert Albin
Calgary

Pat:

This is not about supporting the enemy; this is about making sure that our soldiers do not get into trouble for following orders from a government that seems to be having difficulty understanding international laws.

...yeah...'cuz those Taliban always respect all the international laws...so there...pfftt...

Our soldiers don't need you,lberia to be looking out for them. I'd feel a whole lot better if you didn't claim to be standing up for them.You kind of 'concern' is better ignored.

Iberia, Well if the Opps are saying the feds are inviolation of the Geneva Convention(GC), and they are worried that by being inviolation of the GC then they are therefore making the soldiers complicit, does that not mean they are therefore implying that the soldiers are not also inviolation of the GC. Either the Feds have violated the GC and the soldiers have therefore violated the GC or they haven't. I believe the Nuremberg's(SP) Trials have already established the fact that following an illegal order is not a defense. They cannot have it both ways here in my opinion.

I love international law. Yes Canada should follow it. Since the Taliban don't wear recognizable uniforms, are mostly from Pakistan (mercs), violate all international laws in reguards to hostages, prisoners, attacks against non-combatants etc., why then we could hold them for trial, and if found guilty, we can shoot them. Sounds good to me!

Good thinking Iberia lets throw Paul Martin, Bill Graham in jail and await their trial for contravention of the Geneva Convention. The agreement was signed under their authority and every civil servant that briefed PMSH didn't alert his incoming government that the agreement they had with the Afghans was likely in contravention of the Geneva Convention. I'm sure that Himelfarb will enjoy being on trial at the Hague. After all isn't he the one who should have pointed out the flaws both to Martin and Harper?

reguards oops regards, spell check thought it was Finnish! I finish now!

Since all the armchair legal experts here feel that the Geneva Convention (or any other international law) doesn't apply to Afghani detainees, I wonder why the Conservatives aren't just going ahead with summary executions for all suspected Taliban captives?

Oh, I forgot...it's the MSM that actually controls government policy.

Actually the Taliban never signed on to the Geneva convention, so it doesn't apply to them. By the way, rule of law does apply. They are entitled to individual trials. If the courts find them guilty, then we can shoot them. There is legal precedent. But don't lose heart lberia, you can still enroll in a good laws degree program, hustle your butt over to Afghanistan, and once there, defend them! That way, given your knowledge of the law, we could probably shoot them twice as quickly!

Actually the Taliban never signed on to the Geneva convention, so it doesn't apply to them. By the way, rule of law does apply. They are entitled to individual trials. If the courts find them guilty, then we can shoot them. There is legal precedent. But don't lose heart lberia, you can still enroll in a good laws degree program, hustle your butt over to Afghanistan, and once there, defend them! That way, given your knowledge of the law, we could probably shoot them twice as quickly!

Sorry for the double post. Slow uploading.

And speaking of laws:

Alexa (NDP) and Dawn Brown (NDP) have now stated on numerous occasions that our Charter applies to Afghanis. On Friday, Alexa stated that!

So why wasn't the NDP pushing the rights of Afghani women, when the Taliban were beheading or stoning women because they didn't follow 10 paces behind their men, or that these women were not escorted by their men, or that these women wore makeup?

So why wasn't the NDP pushing the rights of Afghani females to get an education?

These left wingers are just disgusting hypocrites!

The Globe is still not reporting facts correctly.

See their article today

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20070505.wafabuse0505/BNStory/National/home

Note they state that DND release a clarification late Saturday. The DND release the clarification on Friday!

The Globe couldn't even get this simple fact correct. One just has to go the DND site and read the damn date of the release!

I think our esteemed main stream media should fire every single editor and hire credible people who actually have the skill to report factually.

OTTAWA (CP) [...]

"In a statement released late Saturday,"
See comment above at May 5 8:43 PM ...-

CP says the statement below was issued Saturday, 5 May. Not so. It was issued Friday, 4 May.

Why did CP use the wrong date of issue? The statement was on the internet hours before CP wrote its story. Blogs had the story out before the MSM.
...-

Statement by Lieutenant-General W.J. Natynczyk, Vice Chief of the Defence Staff

NR–07.030 - May 4, 2007

OTTAWA – Lieutenant-General W.J. Natynczyk, CMM, MSC, CD, Vice Chief of the Defence Staff, issued the following statement today: ...-
http://www.forces.gc.ca/site/newsroom/view_news_e.asp?id=2273

TO Red Star says the Statement was released Saturday, 5 May. The Star repeats the CP story.

Blogs used the correct date which is Friday, 4 May. Will CP/MSM correct their stories? Will the CP/MSM issue an apology/correction to Lt-Gen. Natynczyk, the Canadian Armed Forces, and all Canadians?

The devil is in the details. God is also in the details. The war between Good and Evil continues.
...-

Abuse story incorrect: Military

Now says no sign Afghan was abused
May 06, 2007 04:30 AM [...]

"Lt.-Gen. Walter Natynczyk, the vice-chief of the defence staff, said yesterday that the way the incident has been portrayed is inaccurate." [...]
Canadian Press
http://www.thestar.com/News/article/210944

Iberia: I wonder why the Conservatives aren't just going ahead with summary executions for all suspected Taliban captives?

We are out to win hearts and minds. Shooting hearts and blowing out brains tends to be counter-productive. I guess Conservatives are the only ones smart enough to know the difference.

Canada routinely applies the Geneva Convention protections to non-signatories as a matter of national policy. However the government is careful to classify these people into the appropriate grouping. That way Canada can legally hand them over to the "host" governement when we are done with them.

People who think that the Taliban are stupid or simple need to give their head a shake. The Taliban are working Canadians very hard when it comes to the media. They are media savvy, and understand that if the Canadian people lose faith in the mission, then the Taliban can win without firing a shot.

There is no doubt now.

The Canadian MSM has declared war on PM Harper, Gen. Hillier, the Canadian Armed Forces; ergo, all Canadians.

Where do you stand?

We know where the MayDion Liberals stand; we know where Taliban Jack-NDP stands. We know the Muslim Islamist terrorists are watching/waiting for Canada to cut'n'run.

The left-liberals, socialists, and the Canadian MSM are allied with Muslim Islamist terrorists.

Message to PM Harper, General Hillier, et al:

We stand with you. No surrender to the taliban.
...-

A loud warning shot: Weston.

S.S. Harper taking on water: Copps.

Pressure rises on PM over war: Goldstein.

Thanks, Geoff, your post tells it like it is. My hunch is that the vast majority of Canadians think whatever the Taliban get, they deserve. Most of us have little compassion to spare for these totalitarian butchers.

Despite the duplicitous, treasonous MSM, let's just hope that the Liberals and their allies in the NDP, Bloc, and Green parties are recognized for the cheesy surrender monkeys they are and treated accordingly. Idiots.

Instead of calling the MSM Tokyo Roses, how about Toronto Tali-Tubbies?

I trust everyone has noticed that "lberia" is equally pleased to sign himself "hhimmler". First and third comments here:
www.smalldeadanimals.com/archives/006145.html#c162539

Mark
Ottawa

The Canadian MSM has declared war on PM Harper, Gen. Hillier, the Canadian Armed Forces; ergo, all Canadians.

Exactly, Maz2, with their global village idiots like lberia, who know zip about international law, seeking to escalate a communications snafu, which the Liberals hypocritically exploit, knowing they wrote the policy. Then the press, uncritically accepts everything Libs and Talibanjackdippers say, including their faked timelines. Thus, we have war, against our troops, plain and simple. (MSM refuses to report, properly what actually happened, outlined above - what's their excuse for this shoddy "journalism").

Maybe these international law experts can point to other countries that have better standards. BTW lberia, spare us the BS about the Dutch having caveat about access to prisoners, it was unenforceable (Afghan a sovereign nation), and they had no resources available, like Canada.

The stage is set by the Libs, press enablers and morons like lberia. Undermine the military, in the name of supporting the soldiers; imply, or come right out and say are soldiers war criminals; accuse govt of "escalation" for bringing in needed resources, like tanks, to deal with Taliban thugs, many whom are foreign invaders themselves; hamstring operations, indeed put our soldiers at risk, by putting chill of war crimes on them and forcing them to use resources to build Canadian POW camp; VOILA, we are not getting the job done, they argue, while they gleefully wait for new casualty figures to come in.

Of course, Libs, dippers, MSM and our resident troll idiot lberia are for the troops. That's why they never asked them their opinion (Hillier did and got it in spades). Certainly don't ask the Afghan people what they want, after all they only elected a government that supported our efforts on their behalf.

Canoe news sets this up as a "news story" on its website. It links to the venomous, hateful screed by Weston. Weston is a vile piece of work; a hater of all things Canadian; a POS.

Weston and his poisoned brain uses the words "killing field". Where did Weston drag this from?

Here: The socialist-communists Hell on Earth.

Lessons from killing fields of Cambodia - 30 years on |
As the philosopher Santayana warned, 'Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.'
www.csmonitor.com/2005/0414/p09s02-coop.html

A loud warning shot

If a federal election were underway today, Afghanistan would almost certainly be a major battleground of the campaign, and could easily become a political killing field for Stephen Harper and the Conservatives. (weston at canoe news)

Thanks for that Maz2. Weston has a bundle of hair on the back of his head. He probably thinks it looks eastern like. He needs to cover it with a cloth wrap to get the real 'look' however...

The Killing Fields was about the Viet Nam war if I remember correctly. Mass killing - very ugly - the type of thing Kerry/Fonda permoted and financed to undermine the American soldiers - - from that shameful 'hippy dippy' free love and peace era in the 1960s. A 'spit on a soldier' to make a cowardly, ungrateful, shameful statement.

There must big clouds of tobacco smoke comming out of the tax payer sponsered, ventilated 'smoking rooms' over at CBC today!

"The Killing Fields" (Cambodia)
www.amazon.ca/Killing-Fields-Widescreen-Roland-Joff%C3%A9/dp/B00004RF82/ref=pd_bowtega_1/701-9840826-9598762?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1178493371&sr=1-1

Perhaps lberia, having willingly assumed the identity of hhimmler, will now assume that of ppot.

One might make another expansion of that short version of a name. Commenter suggestions invited.

Mark
Ottawa