So if they let holland be ruined to the point where they have to leave whatever we do don't let them and their liberal values here.

This our future if we keep our excessive immigration up.

Pls cut the numbers Seve for my children's sake.

Now whats the most common first name given to children in Holland,...

No, no, the euro-filth *must* me made to stew in their own faeces.

That idea of sending young offenders to their ancestral homes, in hopes they will re-connect with their culture, has only one flaw. They let them come back.

This is the most bizarre form of "rehabilitation" in any justice system, I've ever heard of. Must be very costly, as well.

It will look good on the old-guard, eurotrash elite when there will be no young workers to support their "entitlements" in their old age.

They will have a lot of young jobless muslims, though. Have fun.

Hopefully they can move their museums with them before they muslims burn it.

Socialists think they have all the angles covered. The one angle they cannot cover, short of invoking totalitarianism, is that people can and will vote with their feet.

What remains behind is a society that believes that picking each other's pockets forms a sound basis for an economy. Yuck.

A bit over the top there BillyHW.

These Dutch immigrants probably represent those that can read the tea-leaves, and have the gumption to get up and go. In my opinion, they sound like good immigration candidates for Canada.

How does one say "who is John Galt?" in Dutch?

I think it is a lot of the rural dutch or small town dutch coming . the cesspool of Amsterdam likely remains more or less intact. Amsterdam is not Holland, it is the main sewage outlet of Europe.

Well duh you have to know that the potheads from the toke shops of the big cities are not going to have much motivation to go any where else!

I have a real problem with what is going to be an increasing demand by Europeans to lite elsewhere after they've trashed their countries. Here. My open letter:

Hey, for decades you sat on your butts, contentedly sucking off of the welfare state, demanding not much out of your bureaucrats and politicians. You never took the right causes to the streets in any meaningful protests, so Holland is now trashed. Every perversity was tolerated by you to the point that nothing has any principled values. You watched America do the heavy lifting as world's policeman, your safety financed by our taxpayers, while you've smugly denounced us at every turn. You won't face down Islamofascists, our kid's will. It's cheap and easy to give your kids a fresh start now that the homestead is a trash heap. The kiddie get a foothold here and you can exit with your old age pension and live out your golden years, away from the squalor, on my Florida beach. Like hell. That gets earned. And, I'm not talking money. A poor legal entry Mexican that has never participated in your decadent life and squandered it gets first dibs for my beach chair.

So, please don't think the kid(in the Eurotrash bikini) is welcomed. Americans owe you nothing.

Sincerely.....

Penny:

Speak for yourself.

This article is about people in their 20's and 30's. They didn't create the society they live in. Many of them, in fact, probably don't like the society they live in - that's why they are looking elsewhere.

Penny, you should not be smearing all of Dutch society with the same brush. If someone is honest, has job skills, and is willing to work, Canada can find room.

...maybe just maybe, the Dutch see Global Warming as a reality and the dikes can't hold much longer.

Global Warming, as in sun/earth thing and not the hot air coming out of some mouths.

I see from the comments that there are others who understand that the new wave of European expats are nothing more than the same liberal socialists that are at the root of the problems in their home country!

These folks have no intention of doing anything but relive and reproduce their lifestyles in other less intimidating locals. Completely oblivious to the role they have and will continue to play in the deterioration of civil society.

The second wave of pilgrims. Interesting times.

Penny, I know of two kinds of Dutch:

1. Who fought in the war and are a clean, proud people.

2. Those who are arrogant, pompous, and think they are the culture centre of universe, usually with strong German background family ties.

Both, generally are hard workers, so I welcome them rather than the welfare cases coming over by the plane load.

I just learned to ignore the rants more than the other.

"Shh! Shhush!"
(Peering through continental peep hole)
"It's the socialist euroweenies at the door, they've shit thier bed again.
Maybe if we turn out the lights and don't answer the phone , they'll go away this time."

Do you know who's filling the gap? Muslims immigrants. The Islamic tide will slowly swallow up country after country until they do own the world. That is their plan and they don't conceal it. Their population is exploding while we kill ourselves off with unrestricted abortion (over the past decade 1,000,000 in Canada - over 15 million in the USA). "Ask not for whom the bell tolls. It tolls for thee."

I say bring 'em on. Here is a great source of immigration for Canada to regain the balance we were supposed to have. It's time to get back to our European, Christian roots, and a Dutch influx would go a long way. It's about time we let some white people back into this country. We've spent a century tending to the minorities and Muslims and Jews. Let's have our Canada back.

In the first nine months of last year a record number of Dutch packed their bags with some 100,000 leaving the country

Just to put that number in some perspective, the population of the Netherlands is about 16 million. For the USA, the equivalent figure would be two million - twice the population of Saskatchewan.

Count me among those who believe that the ones most likely to emigrate are the hardest-working ones with the skills and energy to create wealth, and who are most upset with the frustrations that living in the Netherlands imposes on their desire to create wealth and good lives for themselves.

They didn't create the society they live in......that's why they are looking elsewhere

Suppose there was no elsewhere.

So, what are they doing to change it? Societies aren't monoliths, they change.

That's a reasonable sized demographic number(20's & 30's) to change the society they live in, if not them, then, who? They walk, they talk, they shop, they have educations/money, they vote, and they have the means(cellphones and pc's) to get grassroots stuff going. They are every bit a part of the political process in Holland as their parents.

I think as the Muslim immigrants make Europe more and more unbearable, Canada, Australia and the United States will benefit from many European refugees like the Dutch in this article.

I only hope our own immigration numbers show that we are taking on the best and brightest, preferably with money, and are limiting the number of Muslims.

It would be great if Canada just publicly stated that we would give preferential treatment to any Jewish people looking to leave an increasing anti-Semetic Europe.

When the rest of Europe is full of peace loving muslims it will be so much easier for the next German dictator to rise up, re-arm and conquer the whole damn territory.

This time, the Germans can keep it . it won't be worth fighting the German's just to give the land back to the euro mullahs.

I think that a lot of them are leaving because they are tired of the huge Muslim population that continually degrades life in Denmark. Ross I disagree strongly with you, if someone is raped or becomes pregnant during their teen years, you think that they should raise their kid? You want more ruined, poor families in Canada/US? I agree that our decreasing birth rates are a problem, but I think that people need to have children when they _want_, not when it's forced upon them.

So to boil it all down to a few words, you've got a bunch of mental midget lefties totally destroying a once beautiful country.

It's the same road Canada was headed down under the Liberal governments of the last four decades.

Throw in a few hundred thousand unintegrated muzzies bent on further destruction and you've got a real powder keg.

"...you've got a bunch of mental midget lefties totally destroying a once beautiful country. It's the same road Canada was headed down under the Liberal governments of the last four decades."

Which year, exactly, is the 'good old days' you'd like to return to? Is it 1958? 1944? 1927? Which is the utopian year you'd like to live in?

The thing is, they may be coming because they fear living in Hollonistan, but that does not mean that they will embrace North American values and politics (except maybe w/r/t Muslim issues). They are still ready-made NDP/Lib/Green voters - remember that the Dutch assasinated a gay, openly drug-using sociology professor for being too right wing - just because he was afraid Muslim immigrants would change his country so that he would be unable to indulge his preferred lifestyle (and I would take Pim Fotunyn any day over Sharia, but that's beside the point). The problem is the Euro approach of relativism, nhilism and tolerance of the intolreant and the intolerable inevitably leads to the situation that these folks are trying to escape. Europe is being colonized at a rapid rate, and its inhabitants are too wrapped up in their own post-colonial guilt and their demographic death-spiral to do anything about it.

I'd pick 1967. The year before Trudeau took office.

My parents immigrated from holland in the 50's. They were hugely impressed by the Canadian soldiers who liberated them and this played a major part in they're choosing this country.
Does anybody remember the 60 year liberation celebration party a year or two back? - the Dutch were nuts over the Canadians and still are.
The Dutch Canadians i grew up with were fanatically proud of being Canadian - born conservatives.
Hopefully this generation of immigrants is cut from the same clothe the last.

Thruthseeker - that's a simplistic reduction and you know it. Sure there's no "ideal" year but how about we slow down the headlong rush to destroy Canada's previous identity in search of some socialist newtopia? How about putting the history of Canada's wars into the school curriculem (and not just the internment of the Japanese - though that should still be a part of the history, and the reasons for it freely debated?)? How about taking a little pride in the Westminster system of government that, while far from perfect, provided the framework to build a country that is clearly a desirable place to move to? How about insisting to newcomers that while everyone has the right to practice their religion (consisten with the laws of the land) and to honour and celebrate their heritage, they have a DUTY to work towards becoming Canadians, to learn the official language of the area in which they live and respect the traditions and practices of the people that built the country that they obviously found so desirable.

Actually, I like the 1967 idea too.

"remember that the Dutch assasinated a gay, openly drug-using sociology professor for being too right wing - just because he was afraid Muslim immigrants would change his country so that he would be unable to indulge his preferred lifestyle"

Ummm, no. The Dutch didn't assassinate him, a muslim extremist did because of a film he created that didn't sit well with extremists. The Dutch were horrified over the incident.

Oh to go back in time and take out that commie scum turdoh. Just think how much better our world would be.

I emigrated from Holland in '56. I was 23 and looking for a country with less regulation, more freedom and more opportunities. And that's what Canada has been, a wonderful country indeed until PET tried to make it into what Holland was when I left.

The Dutch may have their faults, they can be judgmental and arrogant. But my guess is that those who are willing to pack their bags and get over here will be the hardworking people who'll earn their keep in no time. And I wouldn't be surprised if they would be the ones to support PMSH rather than the type of left wing parties they left behind.

I canna help myself.

wooden shoes, wooden head , wouldn' listen

1967 eh?

Alright all together now...

CA-NA-DA
(One little two little three Canadians)
We love thee
(Now we are twenty million)
CA-NA-DA
(Four little five little six little Provinces)
Proud and free
(Now we are ten and the Territories sea to sea)

(Chorus):
North south east west
There'll be happy times,
Church Bells will ring, ring, ring
It's the hundredth anniversary of
Confederation
Ev'rybody sing together!
CA-NA-DA...

...Dang, now can't get that song outta my head.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada_%28song%29

Hey what's wrong with 1958?

Great year, the world wasn't the same after 7:30pm PST June 7th...

;-)

DrWright and BillyHW, penny - now I start feeling that the conservative crowd are the immigrant hating bigots. Just kidding.

Sincerely, Aaron, a card carrying gun toting conservative, whose predecessors were executed in the 1917 communist turnover.

PS: Would you like to send me back to Russia?

BTW, Pieter Dorsman has a very good site. Unfortunately he’s too busy to turn it into a blog, still, it’s a good daily read. Also he’s a member of Roger Simon’s :

http://pajamasmedia.com/

which in turn is a fan of Kate’s pick .. Fred Thompson.

A glimpse at the vast right wing conspiracy in action.

Well, let's see, Truth Seeker, 1944 was the "greatest generation", those unselfish and principled Canadian and American men and women whose efforts saved Europe. They are also the same crowd that created a measure of wealth in America/Canada unparalleled in our history.

Their counterparts, the "utopian" crowd had the Soviet gulag in full swing(lots of Soviet war vets ended up there), was planning purges, artificial famines and the subjugation of Eastern Europe.

I'm with Tomax on this one. The ultra left responsible for the changes don't generally have the motivation required to cross the Atlantic anyway.

Like the Jews leaving France for Quebec, I just hope Saskatchewan has a booth at the next Dutch emigration fair.

I'd take the Hirsi Ali's into Canada, and we should have extended that invitation; the bed makers can have europe for their socialist culture's long overdue death!

Arthur, this particular post is not abortion focused however I want to respond to your question by stating that I do SUPPORT abortion as a result of a rape induced pregnancy or because of a genuine medical condition. Don't worry be happy should never be an option as it is currently, for young teens when it comes to sex. No, I do not expect these young teens to raise these children. Seeing the pregnacy through to birth also teaches the mother responsibility. Childless couples in Canada currently have to wait 10 yrs or more to adopt a child because of a shortage of babies. I know of several, one a single mother, who because of a shortage of babies here in Canada she has had to resort to 3rd world countries for adoption. Frankly, in this day and age there are very few excuses for an unwanted pregnancy. Students receive sex education in every school in this country. Good grief, there's even a morning after pill now. For those (women of any age) that choose, and I emphasize choose, to have unprotected consentual sex then society should make it clear that they will be expected both legally and morally to accept the consequences of their decision. To counteract the low birthrate we have wide open immigration to bolster our sagging population base which in turn is creating more and more of a national security issue as time goes by. Teaching responsibilty, especially to our youth while protecting the unborn or the alternative. It all comes down to right and wrong and morality versus 'so-called' rights.

"The ultra left responsible for the changes don't generally have the motivation required"

...I'll toke to that!

Umm, never mind.

TruthSeeker

I never mentioned "the good old days" but common sense governments as opposed to loony left "progressive" governments would have been preferable and wouldn't have put us in the mess we're in.

Here's a good essay on what happens in Holland nowadays. It was originally posted on a Russian language forum, I translated it to English. The essay is quite long but worth reading.
http://www.freedominion.ca/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=60301

"North American values and politics"

So there's no distinction between Canada and the US in that respect? I know you think this is, or would be, a good thing. I don't. A lot of Canadians don't.

But I am well aware that you are probably going to win out because that's what business wants. Soon there will be no Canada in any meaningful sense.

"So there's no distinction between Canada and the US in that respect?"

Not enough to count. We aren't uniform enough in our history or geography, for one.

There's more distinction between Canadians than there is between Canadians and Americans.

But I've said that before.

The Dutch were horrified over the incident.

Not horrified enough to stop Hirsi Ali being forced out of the country. Any indignant street protests when the Minister of Immigration conveniently went after her as "the problem"? How's that for defending western values. She's no lover of the Dutch.

Please, the Dutch have reaped what they've sown, as have the French. These are the same folks busy at putting up bronze statues honoring prostitution as they slouch toward dhimmitude.

We've got enough problems in America with the lame and toxic left, importing immigrants-of-convenience isn't a good deal. I'll take a the risk anyday on a legal entry Mexican - hard working conservative Catholic - that hasn't that kind of background. They never stood a chance in changing Mexico unlike their irresponsible and decadent European counterparts.

All my life I have seen my beautiful country taken over by the commies . There is a difference America hasnt been beaten down as badly as canuckistan has. We need to stand up and take our country back. Or just put a wall up and keep the east in the cold and dark.

Multirec, re your 3.39: Holdfast (3.29) was referring to Pim Fortuijn, the politician, not Theo van Gogh, the film director. Fortuijn was assassinated by the animal rights activist Volkert van der Graaf (ethnic Dutch to the core), while van Gogh was murdered by Mohammed Bouyeri (an ethnic Moroccan) in the name of Islam.

Just to set the record straight...It was Theo Van Gogh that was killed by a Muslim extremist for his involvement in the making of the movie "Submission" along with Hirsi Ali. That movie was critical of Islam's treatment of women.

"Pim Fortuyn stood for reduced immigration (especially by Muslims whose beliefs he believed to be in conflict with Dutch society.) His most controversial statements (which got him labeled a right-winger): "Islam is ... simply a backward culture. ... I would simply say, no more Muslims can come in! ... Holland is full."

Fortuyn was shot to death May 6, allegedly by an animal-rights activist who may have been upset at Fortuyn's support for raising animals, such as mink, for their fur. The suspect, Volkert van der Graaf, 32, has not made any statement."

'Aboriginal' Dutch people are fed up with having their kids get beat up at school by the Muslim majority, the dutch government is quick to accuse them of racism if they say anything, so it's hard to blame them for leaving.

The Islamic Republic of the Netherlands will be a much different place.

I would like to point out that the Dutch are one of the top 5 contributors to the war in Afghanistan and supported the war in Iraq(unlike socialist Canada under Crouton).

And it's the preferred taxation destination of Bono...

muslim population in Canada approaching 1,000,000

...you've got a bunch of mental midget lefties totally destroying a once beautiful country. It's the same road Canada was headed down under the Liberal governments of the last four decades."

Sorry dude: Still heading down. Zero difference under Harper with minority government. There'll be zero difference under a Harper majority government.

Can you in your wildest imagination hear Harper saying that we need to reduce Muslim immigration? Nah, I didn't think so. It's irreversible unless we unwind the intergenerational Ponzi scheme which is social security. That won't happen.

The End.

Sorry about the mix up Holdfast, my mistake.
Although I do have to say that just because some mentally deranged idiot whacked a Dutch citizen, is not exactly all of the "Dutch" assassinating it's own.
Penny:You're a little over the top as far as I'm concerned.
Do you know any Dutch people? I lived there for years and your description of them is false. Yes, the lefty government is destroying them with pc ism, but do you think Canada would do any better considering the circumstances, or the USA for that fact.
I'll take the Dutch anyday.

Germany has the same problem as the Dutch - there are more people leaving than coming in. They also have a below replacement birth rate and a growing muslim population. They also have very high unemployment rates especially for the young, even those with higher educations. If you were a young German (or Dutchman) and saw a future of 1 worker for every dependent, why would you stay?

I remember seeing a story about a German entrepeneur who opened a restauraunt in Afghanistan after the Taliban were kicked out. He said with all rules and regulations in Germany it was much easier to start a business in Afghanistan.

I believe that The Netherlands that we see today has some correlation to the Britain that we today.
Over the last 200 years the privileged class in Britain stayed put while many of the lower class, with ambition, emigrated to seek better opportunities. During the last 80 years, the remaining less ambitious folks built Blair’s Britain; a socialist and politically correct wasteland.
It’s sad to say but the Britains of today bear about as much resemblance to an Anglo Saxon as a 21st century Italian resembles a Roman.
Dutch emigrants that are looking to find a better home and build a better future for their children should be welcomed to Canada.

I wonder if there will be a Dutch boy left behind to poke his finger into the hole in the dike, or whether 100 years from now the Netherlands will be totally inhabited by Swamp Arabs.
I understand, though I haven't seen numbers anywhere, that enterprising young Swedes are also leaving in droves to escape the punitive taxation in their country. Perhaps it's happening everywhere in NW Europe.
Another place that Canada might be advised to look for new immigrants is in South Africa. I have heard that our immigration people have done much to discourage the Afrikaners from coming to Canada (possibly as punishment for their participating in apartheid in the past). There are lots of skilled people there that we could use in our economy.

Despite having stubbornness as a cultural attribute (in general), any Dutch folks I've ever met have been kind, hard-working and honest to a fault. I would gladly welcome any Dutchmen who ever decide to come to Canada.

Interestingly, as far as Muslims go, I haven't run across any who give any appearance of extremist attitudes and I have had a positive experience with them to date. I would not want to "throw the baby out with the bathwater" as it were, but it IS hard to ignore the overwhelming evidence of the putridness of their religion (at least as evidenced by the more fanatical amongst them). I dislike what appears to be bigotry towards muslims expressed here in this thread but quietly (and shamefully) have to agree that the sentiments expressed regarding blocking the immigration of muslims to Canada is likely for the best.

While I dislike what appears to be bigotry in this thread, sometimes the truth is ugly and there's no better way to say it clearly.

Geez, "nether" works in so many ways ...

'Twixt upper, nether, and surrounding fires.
--Milton.

This darksome nether world her light Doth dim with
horror and deformity.
--Spenser.

All my nether shape thus grew transformed.
--Milton.

I have a real problem with what is going to be an increasing demand by Europeans to lite elsewhere after they've trashed their countries. Here. My open letter:

Hey, for decades you sat on your butts, contentedly sucking off of the welfare state, demanding not much out of your bureaucrats and politicians. You never took the right causes to the streets in any meaningful protests, so Holland is now trashed. Every perversity was tolerated by you to the point that nothing has any principled values. You watched America do the heavy lifting as world's policeman, your safety financed by our taxpayers, while you've smugly denounced us at every turn. You won't face down Islamofascists, our kid's will. It's cheap and easy to give your kids a fresh start now that the homestead is a trash heap. The kiddie get a foothold here and you can exit with your old age pension and live out your golden years, away from the squalor, on my Florida beach. Like hell. That gets earned. And, I'm not talking money. A poor legal entry Mexican that has never participated in your decadent life and squandered it gets first dibs for my beach chair.

So, please don't think the kid(in the Eurotrash bikini) is welcomed. Americans owe you nothing.

Sincerely.....
Posted by: penny at April 4, 2007 2:34 PM

penny: With you 100%. My first thought when I read this post was, we don't want voters of your ilk who willingly gave up a beautiful country through either your votes or your inactions. I also don't need to hear the old song and dance that 'I never voted for them'. I'm originally from Sask. It's impossible to find someone who voted NDP but they keep getting in. My other concern is the BS that their kids are a product of their upbringing.WHO set the stage for this scenario? The Parents! I think it IS time to let them rot in their own feces.
My apologies if I have offended the great Dutch people here, I have the utmost respect for you and I know a good deal of Dutch persons here in Calgary, but reality is on our doorstep.

Interesting comments.

As an emigrant from the socialist UK in 1974, (miners strikes, electricity rationing, transportation strikes, wage and price controls, rampant inflation) I certainly have sympathy with anyone who is determined to come to Canada and build a new life for themselves.

We can only hope that if there is a surge in European emigration that we will attract the more entrepreneurial types and not the lefty do-gooders that have wrecked their economies and countries. Of course our immigration system is now so lapse that it appears that with perseverance anybody will be accepted.

Any reader of Mark Steyns essays will be familiar with this countries dire need for emigration to finance the social programs we were all promised in our retirement.So I guess we should be welcoming them with open arms.

One hopes that the Conservatives will do a better job than the Lieberals in determining who will constitute successful candidates. From my own perspective I think our system needs an urgent overhaul to encourage young skilled trades men and women, nurses, doctors and engineers. Much less emphasis on accepting those who have obtained a university degree but no essential job skills.

And to all Canadians - thank you for the opportunity to contribute to my own and the country's success.

If Martin had beat Harper in the last election, how many conservatives thought...at least thought it's time to move to the United States, or at least Alberta.
I'll bet quite a few. Now look at the Netherlands and their left wing government. How many Canadians would leave under their current policies.
In my opinion it's not the left that's leaving en masse,it's the right.
Welcome them with open arms.

See 'America Alone", by Mark Steyn.

Amazon.com in a week.

The more government interferes, the fewer citizens take responsibility, and the more decay you tend to see around you. "

Truer words never spoken.

So there's no distinction between Canada and the US in that respect? I know you think this is, or would be, a good thing. I don't. A lot of Canadians don't.

Sure there's a difference, but this post is about Dutch emmigrating to Canada and the USA (and Oz and NZ, I suppose). Canada and America are different, but it is generally a difference of degree, not kind. As someone who's lived on both sides of the border, I'd venture to say that in many respects, Torontonians and New Yorkers have a lot more in common than Torontonians and Medicine Hatters do.

Anyway, our Liberal overlords have tried to erase Canada's real history in the 19th and 20th centuries, and replace it with three stupid pillars (1) We're knee-jerk not Americans (regardless of the merits of the particular issue at hand, (2) We are beloved by the world (even if they don't know or care who we are), and (3) we support the UN and are the world's greatest peacekeeps (even though our miniscule miliatary has made it hard to perform useful peacekeeping).

In the real world out nuclear reactor sales to India were a key part of their development of the bomb, Talisman's Political Correctness -forced sale of oil assets in Sudan to Red Chinese interests has made useful UN action in the darfur crisis much less likely, and nobody cares what we say because we don't have enough embassies overseas, our foreign aid budget is tiny and our armed forces have been systematically starved.

Are the young leaving because they believe the social programmes are taking too much out of their paychecks to pay for all the old people, or is it beacause the Islam world is taking their country from them and they have to llok for a new homeland.

Read Mark Steyns " America Alone" This is scary.

ifa you ain'ta dutch

you-ah ain'ta mucha

Hey, I married a dutch gal.

She's responsible, made 3 children with me :) , works hard, pays her taxes, but still you get no respect.

Dutch are generally thrifty. You know the joke.

Q. How was copper wire invented?

A. Two Dutchmen pulling on either side of a penny!

For the most part they are decent folk, albeit some in Amsterdam are 'way out there'. In the countryside most of them are pretty decent folk.

If they all take Al Gore too seriously, and I was Dutch, I think I would be plugging my dike too! Hey they live below sea level for God's sake.
Al Gore is pretty scary stuff if you're Dutch. No wonder they are heading for the exits.

Both my folks and my wife's folks came over in the mid to late fifty's. My in laws don't have much use for all the PC correct rubbish in The Netherlands either. My father looks at the fractured politics of Germany and wonders how Merkel does it, as all the guys turned down the job of Chancellor.

The trouble is they all preach the Gospel of pluralism; but when it comes right down to it, it's the PC way or the highway/Autobahn. The government regulation in Europe is generally stifling, except for some post communist countries who are well educated and looking for companies to bring in their operations.

No wonder the Dutch have wooden shoes, when the water rises you can 'do a Jesus' and just walk on the water!

Remember: HOPE FLOATS!!

1) If you were born in Holland, and were being forced to live in a system you didn't agree with that due to population demographics you had no ability to change by democratic means, and had the ability to leave to start a better life, wouldn't you take it?

2) I would argue that any Dutch immigrants moving ANYWHERE have an unemployment rate less than 1%. I would further contend that their work ethic is something that we need as a model in our country as we have too many "born in Canada" slackers now.

Bottom Line: I hope Canada starts marketing to pissed off Dutch and Germans to consider moving here.

If I read most of the above comments correctly, many want to make being conservative a pre-requisite to immigrating to Canada. Because the Charter has prohibited discrimination based on race or religion, we'll now do it based on political philosophy. Because, as we all know, being liberal means you won't work hard and pay taxes and contribute to society. And this is a good way to shore up the CPC base.

You, armchair commandos like Jim from Calgary, will be qualified to talk, when you will liberate Canada. Until then no, sorry, you are no better than Brits or Dutch for that matter. I had guts to go against communist regime in the USSR and came to Canada to hear that the immigrants were not welcome because they were not conservative enough. When reading garbage like this, I sometimes feel that I should take my revenge on you and bring my kids up liberal voters. Screw you, assholes, sort of thing. You are stretching your luck with me and many others who lurk but don't post.

Truthseeker - as opposed to a certain party's trying to woo various immigrant groups by embracing and protecting their terrorist arms (Tamil Tigers, Khalsa, the Hayders etc)? Anyway, I'm a bit unclear on how the Charter would apply to people not even in the country yet, let along citizens, though I'd sure one of your liberal-activist judges could find a way to square that circle.

Aaron - oddly enough, in Canada you are free to bring your kids up any way you like (hey, you can even be a member of the shadow cabinet and publicly rally with members of Hizbollah. Also, as annoying and frustrating as Canada might be at time, it isn't quite at the point of needing "liberating" yet.

Really? Then let me ask you, who owns land under your house.

Aaron, Hans

Don't take the bigotry shown by some here to heart, there are spoiled apples in all walks of life and ethnic backgrounds.

Let the little dogs bark.

Me no dhimmi,

"Can you in your wildest imagination hear Harper saying that we need to reduce Muslim immigration? Nah, I didn't think so."

Harper certainly won't make a point of announcing a reduction, if not elimination of Muslim immigration. I'm quite sure though, if the Conservatives remain in government, that it will happen. Not just because of the increased security risk, subversive undermining of our culture, discrimination, ghettoization and flagrant bigotry that Muslims bring to Canada, but because they block vote Liberal.

"...many want to make being conservative a pre-requisite to immigrating to Canada. Because the Charter has prohibited discrimination based on race or religion, we'll now do it based on political philosophy. " - truthseeker

What do you think the Liberals have been doing for 40 years? Why do you think 99% of Muslims vote Liberal?

"and came to Canada to hear that the immigrants were not welcome because they were not conservative enough." - Aaron

Was this told to you by the Liberals, who have been in power in Canada for 85 of the last 100 years? Come back to reality and stop with the threats - you'll vote the way you want, not as revenge for what some people have said on this thread.

And BTW, as noted above, it was truthseeker who commented on being Conservative as a pre-requisite for immigration (which has never been the case, although a propensity to vote Liberal has always been a pre-requisite). Truthseeker is a socialist.

...just think of it, if the Dutch and Germans do move to Canada en masse, we'd actually have

- cars built that won't break down after 10 years
- nice flowers in every garden's home
- dyke would actually mean a water retainer.

Yep, Irwin, you are absolutely right. As long as CPC does not betray us, I will continue voting the way I want :)

Nice tomax 7,

And in all likelyhood, they won't want to repeat the same mistakes that caused them to emmigrate in the first place.

Historically, Canada was built by not just the English/Scottish/Irish/French (Hugenots and Normans), but the Dutch (where there are still sizeable enclaves like King Township in Ontario), the Germans (Kitchener was called New Berlin, prior to the war), Ukranians (the west), the Finns (cottages all over the Kawarthas), And how about the Chinese?

All pioneers and good people, with few differences.

Along with the British, the Dutch and Germans were mostly Protestant. Having said that, where did all the Catholics come from?

"I sometimes feel that I should take my revenge on you and bring my kids up liberal voters. Screw you, assholes, sort of thing."

Right on cue.
A "threat" from a recent immigrant.
Who claims he speaks for others.

Aaron do you think you will punish Canadians by voting Liberal?
If so do you think that a fittig revenge for disagreeing with your remnant commie brasinwashing, will be to destroy the country that accepted you when you RAN AWAY ?

Maybe you have fallen behind in your reading; the usual revenge on us , Aaron, is to get yourself a terrorist cell made up of other Aarons and plan to cut the head off the priminister.

That'll teach us assholes!

Irwin Daisy: Good points, and yes if it is ever done it will not be announced as such.

One quibble: When you refer to the immigrant bloc vote, that vote is not ideological. It is more like "dancing with the one that brung ya.".

The question is: Will Harper become the new escort? He has stated that he wants to become the new "natural governing party". To do that, the welfare state (the inter-generational ponzi scheme) will have to be buttressed, and to do that, high levels of immigration will be needed, and to do that, er, muslims.

Unless you think he's gonna give us a fireside chat some time pointing out the suicidal economics that promotes high levels of the wrong kind of immigration?

Er, what happened to the Toronto 17? Will the case disappear?

Just remember, when you start crying 'Canada for Canadians', there will be Hitler waiting around the corner to take you all to the gallows.

You just don't care and don't listen to us, unwashed immigrants.
I met an Indian guy who came here with his mechanical engineer diploma and was quite happy, until he bought a car.
He was screwed big time by a WASP car dealer, then he tried to get that car fixed and was screwed big time by one after another WASP mechanics. That's how we met and the guy could not understand, why they tried to drain all his money instead of fixing that $20 part.
Next thing he called the ministry of consumer relations to complain that the mechanic took a deposit for parts and disappeared for a good half a year. The officer told him, that the ministry was not in power to do anything and his only venue was a small claims court.
That's the first impression of many new immigrants, as the first thing they have to do is to get a car and preferably cheap. That's not how they get treated back home, so the first impression is the strongest. Welcome to Canada, the total charge is eight hundred dollars...
You go golfing, then go for a beer with your WASP friends and bitch about the chinks and paki who don't speak good English and are looking to screw you over and you don't give a rat ass about immigrants, who all they do is work and pay taxes.
The first who comes around and promises to take care of immigrants gets their vote, for the most part it was the grits and dippers. They are both feet with the ethnic communities, while some conservatives feel they can spout garbage like some of you here.
It's not my fault that you allowed terrorist organizations to build the nests here, is it?

me no dhimmi,

Harper is obviously governing up the middle right now in order to get a majority. On obtaining that he'll probably concentrate on decentralization, economic and tax reform first. However, he (as much as any other western leader) is going to have to deal with the failures of multiculturalism and open door immigration.

I read recently that immigration is costing the taxpayers $5 billion a year in social assistance and welfare. Most are immigrants from the middle east and asia. I would have to assume that means a large percentage of muslims, given that since 9/11, they have tripled their population in Canada.

He's also going to have to look at the rising cost of security and its root cause - Islam.

Harper's a pragmatic economist. As such, he has to look at the causes in order to figure out the remedies.

Furthermore, despite the recent addition of Khan, he knows he doesn't have a hope in hell of getting a majority of Muslim support. Their organisations have already said this.

As far as ideology is concerned, the Liberal party is quite accommodating, having the most Muslim MP's. "A great win for Islam...Allah Akbar" was the phrase used by one winning Liberal candidate in Mississauga last election. People like Coderre, and a general anti-Israel (if not anti-semetic) bias also make the Liberals the best ideological fit out of all the parties.

Everything points to one logical conclusion. End Muslim immigration.

I used to manage a company here in vancouver. the accountant who showed up one day told me all about the "canada" course he took in delhi, it taught him how to access all kinds of canadian government money, hell even the course was paid for by the government of canada. when he got here from india he had over 20k in the bank (given to him from our government) he also got a house anda car and a welfare check on top of it all. I asked the government at the time for help with my rent and got the brush off.

"...the Dutch are experiencing the largest net outflow of people since the post-war emigration boom of the 1950s and the remarkable attitude shifts will ensure that this trend will persist in the years to come."

Thus hastening the birth the Islamic State of Netherlands.