I could not agree more!

If nothing else, it will teach him to get somebody who knows how to code the poll to keep people like us from voting more than once! (a pretty hilarious result, can't wait until his techie catches it and shuts it down)

Hey, it just told me I already voted on the poll! Has it been doing that all along, or did it just get fixed to prevent dual-votes? If it's prevents multiple votes, then he's really in for trouble!

Just reading on his site how we should be 'carbon neutral'. If I understand it correctly, probably the best solution would be to cut down all the trees, use to wood to build things (thus locking in their carbon for a long time), and then replanting the trees to suck up huge new amounts of CO2. Any reason why this wouldn't do what Suzuki/Gore are telling us to do?

Shane: As one who has benefited from SDA links pointing to my blog, I can tell you that nobody needs to vote more than once. The traffic that flows through this site is second to none. I've been linked to by all kinds of so-called big sites ... and nobody pushes traffic like SDA. I don't think people appreciate how many truly unique hits SDA gets ... its not all spiders and google.

So what do ya say Suzuki ??

In your own poll, on your own website;

The largest group of voters, more than 45%, say we should NOT even try to meet the Hoax. Martians won't either, according to National Geographic.

Only a third of Canadians think we can meet Kyoto by tightening our belts.

Canadians care about the environment. They don't care about Maurice Strong's cult.

Suzuki has the absolute top web guys working on his site. There is no way anyone could vote more than once.

These results are real!!!

Harry: Don't bother. Let things take care of themselves. One vote ... one person ... the power of the net and us crazy neo-con rightwhingnuts.

Harry: You'll appreciate the results more if you vote once. What's the fun in giving Mr. Fruit-Fly a reason to say he was cheated.

" .. The traffic that flows through this site is second to none. I've been linked to by all kinds of so-called big sites ... and nobody pushes traffic like SDA. I don't think people appreciate how many truly unique hits SDA gets "

All the voters do !! Warren Kinsella does.

sda, #1 Canadian blog. How many years now ??

jimbola: Why bother ... if Paul is right, nobody needs to vote more than once. Let the regular SDA visitors vote as they please; and only once. Nobody told them how to vote anyway.

I haven't had so much fun since Kerry opened up his blog for endorsements...

Mods you can clean this one too.

Yeah, I voted, er, lots, too. Top web guys, eh? Just like the top scientists Suzuki uses for references, I suppose. TELL ALL YOUR FRIENDS!!!!

"OK the cats out of the bag AGAIN.

Mods can you clean up the leaks!!!

Posted by: jimbola at March 3, 2007 12:00 AM"

That's ok folks I've taken a screenshot and sent it to the Suzuki Foundation.

Click all ya want folks. Message or not it will only accept one.

Hey folks: Albatros is right. There is no need to vote more than once. Like I said, there's lots of traffic on this site, and everyone will vote as they choose. If the system can be cheated it can be cheated by all who go there; if it can't, then you're just fooling yourself anyway.

Is there a way to view the poll results without trying to click on a choice a second time? I've been revoting just to see new results, because I can't see a way to get to the results any other way.

Right click, hit refresh.

Not that I know of... maybe albatross knows.

All that does is refresh the window ... it's not a vote.

"sda, #1 Canadian blog. How many years now ??"

So that's how a bunch of rednecks gets the #1 spot, manipulating the voting, just like you've done with the Suzuki Foundation’s poll. Just think of all the times you've pointed your crooked con fingers at Liberals.

As an interesting aside - I notice how he doesn't have anything actually costed out in any way. Ie. to meet our commitments we will have to curtail 40% of all road travel, etc, etc (I'm making that number up). In my mind, those voting for option 1 are pie in the sky types, hoping against hope that we can do Kyoto, without any plan as to how we can do it. If the road to Kyoto is so doable, why has no one come up with a clear plan and presented it to the Canadian public? If Kyoto enjoys so much public support, and it's so workable, this should be a political slam-dunk, right?

"Right click, hit refresh.

Posted by: Paul at March 3, 2007 12:14 AM
Not that I know of... maybe albatross knows.

Posted by: jimbola at March 3, 2007 12:14 AM
All that does is refresh the window ... it's not a vote.

Posted by: Paul at March 3, 2007 12:16 AM"

Yea, you can just delete the cookie that says you've voted. I've got the screenshots of you rednecks gloating over it before it was deleted.

Albatros: Actually albatros, it's called high traffic. I know, because I benefit from it. It's called one of the most visited political blogs in Canada ... likely the most visited single person blog. People like what Kate does ... if you don't, why are you here?

And, you are making a fool of yourself with your lack of knowledge. Refresh is just that, it refreshes the page you are on, it is not a new vote.

I'm starting to feel sorry for poor old Suzuki. He's gonna have to spend the rest of the weekend re-rigging his own poll himself. Good job, people.

Warren Kinsella is soooo funny !!

Just up(musings) he claims on-line polls are not accurate because some groups are left out !!!??

Like, hey Warren, would the Media-polls, by any chance, "select" the ones they want answers from ?? Duh, think ??

Have you EVER seen a list of those polled ?? Let alone the answer data.

Thanks, Paul - I get the refresh thing now. But shouldn't there be some way just to view the poll from the main Suzuki page without having to first enter by voting?

Albatros - I'm not sure that an on-line poll holds the same moral significance as some of the sins of the Liberal Party of Canada. Does it give you comfort to think we're all rednecks?

Delete the cookie?? Whut in tarnation are yeh gettin on to albatross.

Is thet wun of them tech things. My lil' redneck brain is frazzled enough jest tryin teh hunt down the right keys on this here laptop thingy what I got at WalMart.

I have to say, all the same, that I'm quite skeptical as to the number of votes on that poll. I suspect at least one of us has figured a way to re-vote, and to do it relatively quickly. I'm not saying I mind (it's an on-line poll, after all) - but I find it tough to believe votes are going in that quickly. I click refresh and it increases by 3-5 in just a few seconds.

Shane: Not the way they've got it set up. You can check the info by voting again, and it'll just tell you that you've already voted and show you the latest stats. If you stay on the page and want to see the changes, do as I suggested.

Like Paul says... SDA pushes the traffic. Its the number one site. I think we also got picked up by LGF.

Shane O. it shows the character of the typical right-wing redneck.
What Liberal "sins" are you referring to? Was it the Income Trust scandal? Oh right, that never happened did it. Sorry is the hardest thing to say, especially for Harper.

Update:

No....5090...63.39%

I wonder if he will still send this poll to Ottawa?

64% NO at the moment.

Like I said in another post, the Canadian Public Has Spoken.

The verdict is loud and clear.

Just checked, and 64.84% of people say "No, so we shouldn't bother trying."

I guess, this poll will be coming down soon and forgotten.

Albatros, I'm more concerned about the general social engineering that Liberals have done in Canada for umpteen years. Although I'm generally in favour of the CPC (for now), don't confuse me with a die-hard supporter (I didn't vote for Harper last election, and I'm in his riding). If the CPC drifts too far and becomes too corrupt, you can expect another Kim Campbell experience - can you honestly say that the Liberals have ever been held to account the same way that the Tories were following Mulroney? That, to me, shows the key difference between left and right voters - we're not afraid to move our vote if things get too bad - the left will keep feeding their political masters, thus never forcing them to clean up their acts.

Shane: Same thing happened in Sask. Conservatives punished their own party and put them into the wilderness for years because of the Devine government. What albatros doesn't realize, is that unlike the liberals, the ones to fear if you are a conservative politician is your own base.

Albatros, why don't you mention Adscam? or promises to scrap the GST? Or the gutting of the military? Or 'tearing up NAFTA'? It's telling that you don't recognize the failures of your side of the political aisle. Does my side make mistakes? Of course. We're emerging from a wilderness experience right now precisely because right voters expected better and refused to condone what a previous right-leaning government did. When has the left ever seriously punished its political masters?

Shane O, I'm not afraid to move my vote around either if there was another party to vote for, but I will never, repeat never, vote for that Regressive Conservative party. The fact that the Liberals as you say "have ever been held to account the same way that the Tories were following Mulroney" screams that Canadians, as a majority will never trust Harpercrit.

Went there and voted, but felt dirty even visiting the SOB's site

Albatros: I have just the party for you ...

http://www.communist-party.ca/

Albatros,

That's the difference between you and I. I won't give my vote to a party that doesn't at least minimally deserve it. Period. You could just as easily argue that Canadians, as a majority, will never trust the Liberals (what was the highest % vote they received in their 13-year rule? - wasn't it 40%?).

I'm not sure you'll believe me, but I used to be Liberal (as in, attend the policy convention), but got out just before Chretien got in - because I could see the writing on the wall, even back then - the Liberal errors in governing Canada stem from how they run their party.

Gord: I know just the fix ... start your SUV and let it run for an hour or two.

Or the gutting of the military?
Gutting the military? Sorry, that was not the Liberals who did that, that was the Mulroney cons that gutted the military. No party sold off military equipment faster than Mulroney. The Liberals inherited the massive deficit from the cons and prevented Canada from going bankrupt.
Read Redbook one, the Liberals said they would replace the GST not get rid of it. It seems most provinces weren’t interested in getting rid of the GST other than a few eastern provinces. They are the ones that have the HST today.

Like all liberals, you are an unhappy self loathing person Albatros. Constant sniping at productive real people that contribute to society everyday without stealing, like liberals like to do seems to be your m.o. If you want to waste your money, if you have any, on phoney carbon credits, then do it, follow Suzuki and Gore and believe everything they say. I, like millions of others see no change in the climate, gets freezin ass cold in the winter here and warms up in the summer, done the same for a long time. Your new religion has no staying power, nature makes fools out of liberals and their predictions all the time, just watch the weather every time they convene a grand meeting on global warming.

I think whoever was running up the totals has stopped, the votes are changing in a more natural manner now.

Oops, spoke too soon, I think.

Albatross; I hear that WalMart will be selling carbon credits. If you stock up now, you can get a deal.

Guys, let's get back on topic: this is about clobbering the dim and self righteous: email your friends and every blogger you know that an even more self important than usual lefty has left himself WIDE OPEN on his own web site. Lock and load.

Sorry jimbola I boycott Wal-Mart.

Shane: It'll keep climbing ... and likely accelerate in the a.m. when morning readers come on.

Albatros, I should clarify - I didn't mean the Liberals alone on all those points (the military-gutting wasn't solely them). But that helps illustrate my point, doesn't it? That the Mulroney Tories did some bad things was 'rewarded' with political destruction. What are you willing to do to hold your side of the aisle to account?

Y'know Albatros, ya just don't get it. A lot of people like you think we should just move on from AdScam and the Income Trust Scandal (I have a standing $20 bet with anyone who takes it that we'll find a connection to the federal foundation funds when they become open to audit. But, I digress.)because it's "old news." Okay, I'll bite. How about I come and steal your car, and then a few years later demand that you forgive me, because it happened a few years ago? Besides, I needed the money to do good for my fellow man. (And, of course, have nice ostrich leather cowboy boots while doing so.) Then I'll have your forgiveness and shiny boots, to boot. Works for me. Well, guess what. I'm one of those people who actually has a moral dilemna about capital punishment. I will fight it to my dying days, unless of course we're talking about people who engage in the fraudulent misdirection of public funds. Your Lib friends didn't set up AdScam to save the country (if you believe that you're truly stupid). They did it so they could wear Cartier watches instead of Cardinal, drive SLK convertibles instead of Sebrings, and vacation in Pismo Beach instead of Penticton. They did it because they thought they were above us, and smarter than us, and because they were actually stupid enough to think that the goddamn Liberal goddamn Party of goddamn Canada would never lose a goddamn election. They were wrong.

Before the lefties start whining about "rigging" polls, or skewing results, they should consider the truth behind these numbers. Only the left-wing nut bars who see David suzuki as some type of saviour, (instead of a self-aggrandizing dipshit) would bother to go to his site and vote in that poll. Before KATE linked to that poll, the lefties could/would have taken the results of that poll that ONLY lefties and enviro-nuts voted in, and present it at a CBC press conference as "proof" that CANDIANS WANT TO BE IN KYOTO.
what Kate has done, is not skewing the poll. I would submit that she has instead made the poll more accurate, and far more realistic. Kate has simply provided information that such a poll existed, to those who would not usually see it. The results therefore, are probably less biased or skewed because of Kates actions. Assbatross has his argument back-assward.

What amazes me is how few votes there were in the poll earlier on ... it says a lot for how little traffic the site must get. One good blog links to it and the numbers go through the roof ... doesn't say much for Fruit-Fly-Guys regular traffic. We should all at least read some of the other links on it ... just to be polite ... if you know what I'm saying. :)

Who is running up the totals ?? Canadians. A lot of the same ones that have been left out of the Major Media polls for the last 40 years.

More than two thirds of Canadians reject Y2Kyoto. On Suzuki's own site, no less !!

Who's running this site now ?? Please update before the Zuze pulls it. Oh ya he's playing hockey on an out door rink. Was hoping it would have been melted. More proof, ya see. I guess he's shovling instead.

Oh, and please can alby. Background noise is always irritating.

Thanks for taking this poll
Can Canada meet its Kyoto target?
Yes, and we can do it through domestic reductions. 1838 (20.47%)
Yes, but we'll have to buy some international credits to do it. 362 (4.03%)
No, but we should still try. 744 (8.29%)
No, so we shouldn't bother trying. 6035 (67.21%)

Total Replies : 8979

Well, guess people aren't buying the bull!

Speaking of the CBC, let's get them in on this: at a minimum we'll get another whinging piece about the evils of the right wing blogosphere (free publicity for us, even if it's only amongst the dozens who still watch the CBC), and if we're really lucky we can send a few into cardiac arrest (fun in a homicidal sort of way). Do you suppose we can email them? Or are they so Luddite they're still using phones only?

JamesHalifax what amazes me is right-wing rednecks can in their minds justify manipulating a poll like that because it doesn't agree with their uninformed biases. Even though it's just an internet poll, it shows just how honest a redneck is.

When I voted the yes was 1774 and the nos were 1111, that is why I posted we need 666 votes. Notice the yes is now 1778, only 4 votes while the nos got 1226 votes.
If the town of Warner, AB makes the top 10 in the hockeyville contest, I will have to request your vote for Warner. A small town of 400 people, who started a girls hockey school, to keep their school open. Great success, and several graduates have received scholarships to US universities.
They were featured on hockey night in canada a couple of weeks ago. You have to vote at the cbc site.

A real poll? This? Come on, it's a lefty wank. Chill.

I can't say I know who is skewing the poll (although I still believe someone is running up the 'no' votes) - but there is a chasm of difference between skewing a non-scientific on-line poll (which no one should accept as reflecting actual opinion on anything - ever) and actually stealing/laundering taxpayer money to subvert actual elections. The LPC should have been deconstituted over that one already. How can Canadians have any faith in a system that was manipulated by those in control of the purse strings to actually use public funds to buy votes? I think you're deliberately evading answering that particular question, albatros. If you were so confident in your left-leaning assumptions of the Canadian populace, I think you would probably call for the LPC to be disbanded, and in its vacuum would be created another left-leaning party without the baggage of the current one. I mean really, using public money to affect future elections?

I would love to see the LPC disbanded myself, and by the Canadian population in every future election. But the depressing fact is that the LPC's membership and elites would just troop over to the successor party and start up business as usual all over again.

Shane there were a few bad apples and they were dealt with. There were also a few in Mulroney's government and probably are a few bad that haven't been caught yet in Harpers government. I’d be keeping a close eye on Gordon O’Connor if I were Harper.

A few bad apples? You mean like the Cretinous one in the PMO who gave us Adscam? Pretty big bad apple, there.

Albatross wrote:
"JamesHalifax what amazes me is right-wing rednecks can in their minds justify manipulating a poll like that because it doesn't agree with their uninformed biases. Even though it's just an internet poll, it shows just how honest a redneck is."

What amazes me (but doesn't surprise me) is that folks like Albatross didn't seem to absorb the concept I was describing. Go back and read it again Ass-batross. See if it becomes clearer. If it doesn't...buy some credits to clear the fog from your vision. If it will work with Kyoto, surely it will work for you.

I voted once, as the poll doesn't allow you to vote more than once. If it did, you may have a point. However...this poll is "one member, one vote" which is inherently fair. Your ticked NOT because the vote is skewing reality. You are ticked because the poll is skewing YOUR reality. Figure that out....and come back and try again.

I'd give them credit for at least having the heart to try, Geoff. I believe it shows a certain defeatist attitude towards Canada as a country not to be willing to fight for it, especially within your circle of support. That conservatives have done so in a big way for 13-some years is to our credit. This kind of soul-searching hasn't even properly begun on the left side, which depresses me. I wouldn't be happy without a good interchange of ideas from both sides - that albatros and others like him refuse to take necessary steps to clean up their side out of fear of a 'bogeyman' speaks to me that they don't have a lot of faith in Canada. They perceive it as such a fragile country, that even temporarily letting the other guys in control of it will destroy it. If we're a country worth having, we can afford to change our leaders, on a pretty regular basis. Without this change of leadership, we get arrogance and all the attendant down-sides of that, which isn't good for anybody.

Albatros, how many bad apples, exactly? What are their names? Are you reasonably sure that they've all come to light? What are their punishments? Who were they connected with (ie, are there still others who are unpunished?)? How many votes/seats were gained because of these shenanigans?

These are just few of the questions that it's not at all clear have been properly asked, let alone answered. That you're making light of it shows that you don't take using public money to affect the outcome of a democratic election to be that serious an affair. What else are you willing to excuse?

Do you think suzuki and jason will cry over a beer together.

JamesHalifax there were posts here of how people were voting multiple times by deleting the cookie that said they had voted. In very short order those posts were deleted. I have the screen shots and e-mailed them to Suzuki’s webmaster.

Hi Shane, I think here in Canada the LPC has deluded itself with its own propaganda about "Canadian values." Basically it's just a variant of wrapping yourself in the flag and playing patriot in order to get votes. If you're a real Canadian, you vote for us, etc. The problem for the Liberals is that they've actually come to believe this election time shtick and really do think any other choice but them is at least potentially fatal to the country. That of course breeds at least some of the arrogance and rigidity you can see in the Liberals every day.

By the way, I love the phrasing "No, so we shouldn't bother trying." Yeah, this poll was designed by a real pro. Another great example of scientific method from the Great Scientist.

Youtube has Bjorn Lomborg with CNN's Glenn Beck.

Al Gore was to be interviewed by a major Dannish news outlet. But Gore, being Gore, cancelled when he learnt that Bjorn would be questioning him. Can you believe it ??

Actualy, yes. Lomborg was going to ask Al why his movie claims sea levels would rise 20 feet while even the UN, where the Kyoto Hoax came from in the first place, says maybe, maybe a foot. In 2100. Pathetic.

//adognamedkyoto.blogspot.com/search/label/video

Al's Al and we should cheer him on because every time he opens his mouth he sends a bunch of voters our way.

This 1975 Newsweek article is so revealling in today's context of Gore and Suzuki fear mongering.

I well remember being very worried about the Media-induced Ice Age Scare during the 70s.

Where is Peter Gwynne now ??

Can one be sued for yelling fire in a theatre ??

//www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/eibessential2/april_28__1975_newsweek___the_cooling_world___by_peter_gwynne.guest.print.html

You know, I always thought that Suzuki was the oddest person on Global Warming. I changed my mind. It's definitely former Canadian Defense Minister, Paul Hellyer. He thinks that UFO technology will thwart Global Warming-

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/afp/070228/canada/canada_environment_kyoto_3

Albatross

Nearly every post you make contains inflammatory insults. This is typical of people with a well-documented mental disorder.

Your lack of self-esteem and bitterness towards life is manifesting itself as a desperate attempt to prove you matter.

You are a little man who will die with less than what you entered this world with.

Guys, cut albatross some slack.

If he is correct that it only requires the deletion of a cookie to vote a second, third, etc time, then the poll may have been unethically skewed. However, this is only a big deal if the results of the poll were used to direct public policy. An internet poll is not statistically sound, since the sample population is self-selected. Therefore, internet polls are not used to direct public policy, and this poll matters not one whit.

Geez, I've really been down on pollsters lately, I basically shot down the poills that AGWN and Coyne pointed out showing the Conservatives in the lead, and now this (self-selected and therefore unsound) poll on the Suzuki site - even though the results of the polls are to my liking.

A hill of beans is worth something, as a commodity. Polls are not worth a hill of beans.

By the way, I love the phrasing "No, so we shouldn't bother trying."

ha-ha! Good point.

Never mind trying to say something non-partisan like "No. We should instead focus our efforts on reducing GHG, smog and pollution in Canada, in a way that will be a reasonable balance between environmental and economic sustainability".

Is it just me but doesn't the suzuki foundation site remind you of the mysterious Hanso foundation on Lost?

"JamesHalifax there were posts here of how people were voting multiple times by deleting the cookie that said they had voted. In very short order those posts were deleted. I have the screen shots and e-mailed them to Suzuki’s webmaster."
Funny Assbatross...at 8 AM EST, those posts are still up,right where they were originally posted! Sure you didn't check a leftie site by mistake? You see, SDA,unlike leftards, does not delete/remove posts,only in the extremely rare case were they are so bad that legallity comes into question. Go play with Fruitfly in the raw sewage running from his town into the Pacific.

Can Canada meet its Kyoto target?
Yes, and we can do it through domestic reductions. 1847 (19.40%)
Yes, but we'll have to buy some international credits to do it. 364 (3.82%)
No, but we should still try. 750 (7.88%)
No, so we shouldn't bother trying. 6561 (68.90%)

Total Replies : 9522

As of 8:13 AM EST,March 3,2007.

I will say that I do have to agree with the moonbat idiot on one point...Mulroney, and his merry band of red tories and kweebec independantistas were not conservative nor libertarian...hence why we on the right had a massive purge and re-aligment...it might have meant some time in opposition, but at least we had the courage to rid ourselves of the phonies, thieves and closet commies....damn straight the criminal libranos will never do the same

Beat me to it, Justthinkin. And as there is no "view this poll" button, you have to "vote" again to see the current results while, quite rightly, getting the "you've already voted in this poll" message.

Be very aware of the 34.49% "climate quislings" identified in this poll.

These are the hardcore indoctrinated army of the Fruit fly king, who will do everything possible to impoverish you with gratuitous inflation, tax and steal your property and your lifestyle, shut down your jobs and send them to China...in short, tank the nation...all at the behest of the leaders of their little green anthill.

It is this 34.49% we will be staring at on the other side of the battlefield when we are forced into a civil conflict to save our jobs, family, property from self destructive green economics.

This 34.49% is the face of the political plague that is poised to destroy our nation's competative advantages and saddle us with a 2nd world economy...if you own property, a business, a job, a lifestyle ...they are your enemy...they want you to give up your job, freeze in the dark and live in 3rd world conditions so their great Leaders can enjoy their isolated decadent lifestyle.

Ftankly folks, this poll was, to, shocking...I was shocked to see so many brainless lemmings running over the cliff with the Fruit flys. These quislings are so deeply entranced they can't even recognize the toxic hypocrisy in their leaders.

Joanne--you have hit the nail on the head. I went to the site but couldn't vote because the 'questions' were inane and self-serving. The questions asked did not address the key issue--ie--particulate pollution and contaminated waterways. The poll again showed that Dr. Fruit Fly is a one trick pony on this issue, and his very words are to spread fear rather than real actions to correct that which we really do have a chance of fixing.

Another poll gone horribly wrong eh? :-)

Can Canada meet its Kyoto target?
Yes, and we can do it through domestic reductions. 1847 (19.34%)
Yes, but we'll have to buy some international credits to do it. 364 (3.81%)
No, but we should still try. 750 (7.86%)
No, so we shouldn't bother trying. 6587 (68.99%)

Total Replies : 9548

Albatross, I reckon the on-line polls are more repesntative than, say, the CBC's "Cross Country Check-up" call-in speakers.

First, if us rednecks can rig the poll, then certainly the urbane, sophisticated, pro-fruit-fly guys can also rig the poll. All's fair on an even playing field there.

Second, interested parties stack the calls into cross-country check-up and also, the caller selectors are biased.

Just for the lurking fruit flies and our resident degenerate liberal troll (Albatross)...as Kinsella said; this SF poll was never meant to be accessed by a wide demographic...just the small demographic of metally challenged fruit flies who surf for climate porn. It’s clear that when exposed to a larger demographic skeptical of the science and economics of Kyoto, support fails drastically.

When the question of Kyoto target committment is put directly to Canadians and the COST to the individual are made crystal clear, you will see a groundswell of backlash to this economically destructive enviro-mental thinking.

As it stands now all the loudest cheerleaders for carbon guilt taxation are NIMBYs...a few have even be exposed as the frauds they are ( like Gore)

Tell ya what...you climate porn addicts lead by example...go negative footy-print so if there is any positive results ( other than impoverishing the climate cult with its own economics) we evil cons ( who have kept our jobs and property intact) will buy some credits off ya to keep you from freezing in the dark :)

Albatross, there ya go agen, you ol' progressive, you.

The only thing progressive about the lib-left these days is their reflex to dig the hole of statism progressively deeper.

There is nothing progressive about trying the same old thing over and over again, hoping to get a different result.

Wimp: I don't think our dead sea bird is "progressive" per se, or any particular political partisan who can articulate policy optics in the English tongue....I think he's just some poor middle-aged schmuck going through male menopause who got hooked on climate porn… seems he needs a crusade and some identity politics to associate with so he feels some sense of worth in his life which he has never had…or maybe he’s just insecure and needs validation.

Personally I would not care but when people start posting their psychosis as opinion it gets irritating.

It certainly appears to be a one man circus to me ...don't read too much into it...it's just another mid-life identity crisis looking for a place to nest.
;-)

missing link is right.
Further proof that liberalism is a mental disorder.

There's an article on his site about lefty sluts throwing their panties at Dr Fly.

If the comment is not a literary frilly undergarment toss, than it don't fly at Doc. Severence Pay's place.
Don't bother.

An update on the Gillian Wiley, who is Dr. Fruit Fly's video girl. Keith Wiley (little Gillian's father) scripted her appearance (see the National Post Article). She was bribed by him to do this in exchange for helping her build a playhouse.

I Googled Mr. Wiley and guess what? I was shocked (not) to find out he is the communication director for the United Nurses of Alberta and has been very active in the fight against better health care in Alberta (aka private medicine).

He has had a "long career in political journalism".

I am absolutely disgusted but not shocked by this lefty behaviour.

As for Dr. Fruit Fly's survey, the Canadian Public has Spoken.

Just passed the 70% mark. I don't know who designed the poll but using cookies to record voters is idiotic.

Jest whut in tarnation are them cooky thingies that all you smart fellers are talkin about. Our lefty buddy albatross wuz goin on about them last nite too. According to him, we all are jest a bunch of redneck hicks that dont understand nuthin complex, like this global warming stuff, or how things really work, or why socialist economics is supeeerior and he and his pals should just tell usn's whut to do cause they is sooo smrt. let alone how these fancy new computer thingies work what I bought on sale at WalMart when I went over in my pickup. No need to tell me, I woodn't understand it anyway. I jest try te git by.

Current results are 7672 (72%) to 1850 (17%) against. I think we broke Beaker's poll. Chock one up for the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy.

Riding a hobbyhorse here: one of the things we must really try to do is reclaim the word "progressive" from the left. Progressive, roughly, means forward looking, and there is nothing forward looking about the modern left, whose ideology is very much a relic of the past and an intellectual dead end. The left are the real reactionaries these days, and if you want "progress," in a meaningful sense of the word, you have to look elsewhere.

Current result: 83% with 11126 votes say Kyoto is a dead dog.

A great day for the environment!

You can only vote once. I tried to vote twice and checked the total vote count. It didn't change.

Greetings to WC - fellow refugee from Tim Blair

You've already voted on this poll
Can Canada meet its Kyoto target?
Yes, and we can do it through domestic reductions. 1869 (16.03%)
Yes, but we'll have to buy some international credits to do it. 367 (3.15%)
No, but we should still try. 763 (6.54%)
No, so we shouldn't bother trying. 8662 (74.28%)

Total Replies : 11661

You can vote as often as you like. Just delete the cookie from www.davisuzuki.org, set your browzer to block any further cookies from that domain and click till your finger cramps up.

PB; shhhhh. you'll wake the trolls

“You can vote as often as you like. Just delete the cookie from www.davisuzuki.org.......etc.”

Kooky Suzuki will see this as evidence of the Vast Rightwing Conspiracy against him.

Only one question needs to be put to him.

“David, is there any evidence that could be put forward to you that would change your belief about GW?"

A negative response from the Cardinal would confirm that his belief is based on faith not science.

http://www.siteadvisor.com/sites/davidsuzuki.org

Im sure someone can have fun with this.

The Rime of the Ancient Mariner give us an insight into good ole albatros39a's psyche: He's forced to carry around the carcasses of PMPM, PMJC, and soon to be LOTOSD (Leader of the Opposition Stephy Dion) around his neck.

I only vote once. Why be as crooked as the left to bludgeon our point of view into the mix dishonestly? I don't think we have too, nor is it in my opinion desirable. Last time I looked it was a 72 % against the anti-human civilization destroying mongers.

Even if it was the opposite I would still be straightforward. Lets not dislike the Libs tactics, only to take them up ourselves. Instead get your buddies to vote. That’s the democratic honest way.

As for David Suzuki I think like Svend, his time has come. Both have buggered the system for years. The open sore of raging hypocrisy is building up to a height enough to topple this gad fly’s castle of imaginary dreams of universal devotion for the world as a goddess or nature worship. Mixed with his socialist money transfer scam ,with unlimited wealth for poor David via his good buddy Moe. Lately it just is not going right for Mr. Suzuki. Perhaps this is why he ran off at the mouth in a grade six class & tuned it into politics pure & simple. The Kyoto scam gets exposed more daily than ever for the ponzi plot it is by the UN, & the enemies of Individual freedom by the collectivists & totalitarians of the planet.

Davids dream of Utopia with money for nothing & chicks for free has come home to roost. The eggs of his envio-shell game are sterile. His dogma suspect on every level by personnel inconsistencies as well as the abounding proof his dog & pony show is out of carrots or creditability. It offers only death, deconstruction & eventually the death of choice or freedom , with science in decline if not looked at with derision because of this sociological political buffoonery. I just wonder how many dead or other people will be lost or killed because of this moon calf mentality? The only thing these socialists have ever been good at is a high body count., in every area of the globe. Death is their signature end ,as the cry’s of tolerance is their in, & beginning.

Frankly I would love to lay a carbon footprint up their backside but hey, you can't have it all. (O:}

Just my opinion

No side is up again to over 75%, yes down to just over 15% at 1.09 mst.

Another example of Suzuki's hypocrisy is the fact that he warns about overpopulation, but he has five children. The media only seem to ever mention the two by his current wife, but ignore the three by his first wife.

Very good points, Revnant Dream. I've just voted, and just the once. The latest numbers are: 1873 (15.58%), 368 (3.06%), 764 (6.36%, and 9016 (75.00%) for a total of 12,021 votes cast.

By the way, I did a bit of wandering around DS's site. He's descsribed as a geneticist, with studies in zoology and biology, and an academic career in zoology, genetics, biology, bacteriology & immunology, and sustainable research development. At no place did I see any mention that he had studied in climatology, meteorology, or atmospherics. The closest, I suppose, would be sustainable r&d. Therefore, when he speaks about Kyoto, he is speaking totally out of his area of scientific expertise. So I ask our friendly neighbourhood Kyotologists - why shoud his opinions matter any more than those of anyone else?

I did not know he had two wives and five children, interesting...

Revnant; what a great rant. Thanks for that.

Algore seems to have been caught out in the other part of the scam:

"Former Vice President Al Gore has built a Green money-making machine capable of eventually generating billions of dollars for investors, including himself, but he set it up so that the average Joe can't afford to play on Gore's terms. And the US portion is headed up by a former Gore staffer and fund raiser who previously ran afoul of both the FEC and the DOJ, before Janet Reno jumped in and shut down an investigation during the Clinton years.

Gore helped found Generation Investment Management, through which he and others pay for offsets. The firm invests the money in solar, wind and other projects that reduce energy consumption around the globe...

Gore is chairman of the firm and, presumably, draws an income or will make money as its investments prosper. In other words, he "buys" his "carbon offsets" from himself, through a transaction designed to boost his own investments and return a profit to himself. To be blunt, Gore doesn't buy "carbon offsets" through Generation Investment Management - he buys stocks."

Read more at Newsbusters.org

http://newsbusters.org/node/11149

Is there any info out there where suzuki stood re the DDT ban, which resulted in the deaths of millions of Africans. Was that ban a knowing attempt to depopulate the earth. Gore supported it as he wrote the introduction to Rachel Carsons book, the silent spring. With all this going on I might start believing all the stories about how AIDS was deliberatly introduced to Africa.

jimbola:

Informative post! Thanks.

Seems like these coconuts are finally falling threw their own machinations. Sweet as sweet can be to me. Shows their duplicity at gratifying levels. Enough I hope to anger more moral people.

Good research. Never fails not to pay off in dividends. Doing like Dorothy & following the yellow brick road. Than shaking out the money tree while watching where the leaves fall.

Following the money trail, never disappoints one for answers to hard questions.

The poll is buried somewhere but I saved this link---seems to work still:

http://www.davidsuzuki.org/files/absolutepm/xlaapmview.asp?p=9&msg=voted&z=

It's gone from Professor Fruit Fly's website.

4:18 p.m. MST

Disappeared, how socialist.

The poll may be gone, but at least we still have the results (Yes - 1885 & 370; No - 770 & 9386). And, in case the good Doctor's foundation accidentally gets rid of it, I've not only screen saved that page (in jpeg format), but I've saved the actual web page itself.

Brian,

The page is available here:

http://www.davidsuzuki.org/files/absolutepm/xlaapmview.asp?p=9&msg=already&z=

Great job guys. I took a pic from the url.

And another fruitfly bites the dust.

Just another meaningless left-wing poll. Ho-hum. Problem is they will never end. I think that we should have a regular poll. We should ask questions that directly confront the intelligence of guys like Suzuki. Here is a sample question:

"Given that Dr. David Suzuki is a "geneticist" and has no credentials in climatology, do you believe that he has any credibility whatsoever?

Choices:

Great credibility

Some credibility

A little credibility

Hardly any credibility

Precious little credibility

A minute amount of credibility

A mere shred of credibility

A trace amount of credibility

An imaginable amount of credibility

Not really any credibility

No credibility at all

Absolutely no credibility at all

My cat has more credibility than Dr. S

My sperm has more credibility than Dr. S

Thank you for participating in this poll!!!

Where in the world did Dr.Kawasaki find 1885 kindergarten kids to get them to vote "yes" on his disastrous poll? I though his smog tour only stopped at a few elementary schools.

Bwa ha ha!

ROFL different Bob; love it!

I filled in the letter part on the main web page but I changed it a bit...I erased the crapy grade school...
'if I were PM" heading, geeesh!

I addresssed the PM only.
Dear Mr. Harper: Please stop these fools as fast as you can! We voted for you last time and will this time too. We need a majority and fast before the king of fruit flies has us all living in the dirt and frost like third world slaves.

Sincerely...

http://www.geocities.com/albatros39a/rednecksone.html?1172984360078

Can Canada meet its Kyoto target?
Yes, and we can do it through domestic reductions. 1885 (12.42%)
Yes, but we'll have to buy some international credits to do it. 370 (2.44%)
No, but we should still try. 770 (5.07%)
No, so we shouldn't bother trying. 12151 (80.07%)

albatros, are you still claiming moral equivalence between fixing an on-line poll (yes, I assume as you do, that somebody voted the 'no' side a lot of times - although I think a significant percentage of the 'no' votes are certainly legitimate) and stealing money from the Canadian tax-payer to buy the next several elections? You seem to be the poster-boy for why moral relativism has been a disaster for Western society. For the record, despite the fact that I have no certain proof that the 'no' vote was run up unethically, and despite the fact that the 'no' side (which I support here) won in a landslide, I put absolutely NO credence in this poll, and will not use it to promote the idea that most Canadians are anti-Kyoto. I have my suspicions, but this non-scientific poll isn't worth the bandwidth it takes up, except as a brief entertainment item. You can continue gnashing your teeth bitterly at how moronic 'rednecks' are, or you can learn that this particular item isn't significant and come to the table to engage in an actual exchange of ideas. Those questions I asked you earlier weren't rhetorical, though you ignored anything that you couldn't defend, without acknowledging their importance. That kind of arrogance is what voters punished in the old Tories (not to say the new Tories couldn't do it again, but we'll do the same thing if they do - and no, we won't make the excuse, "there was no one else to vote for" - we'll remake a party from scratch if we have to again). I fear for the Liberals (and lefty opposition in general) if you're all too scared to introspectively and profoundly reform yourselves out of fear of us having a turn at running things.

There's a saying that conservatives generally believe liberals to be well-intentioned but misguided (to be charitable); the same saying says that liberals believe conservatives to be simply evil. I'm afraid that your comments in here have done nothing to disprove this. Good luck with the soul-searching, my friend.

Can Canada meet its Kyoto target?
Yes, and we can do it through domestic reductions. 1885(12.14%)
Yes, but we'll have to buy some international credits to do it. 370(2.38%)
No, but we should still try. 770(4.96%)
No, so we shouldn't bother trying. 12500(80.52%)

Total Replies : 15525

Also for the record - yes, I did try to vote twice (partially to be able to see the vote results, which aren't independently accessible, except by 'revoting'), but was denied (as far as I can tell). I didn't do anything after that attempt to dishonestly revote, though it seems certain that someone else found a way to do so.

Hey I just posted screen shots. Assume what you will from it.

He is asking for you to write a letter to the PM but the first person addessed is Dion. Then, there is a stmt, this is what the letter will say. So, how many kyotologists will just send suzukis words. If only those that voted yes respond there will not be many letters. My suggestion is to take the addresses and e-mail your own letter, ignoring suzukis site. At least dion & layton should get about 5000 letters saying, kill kyoto. Send the same letter to you MP. Maybe Kate could post the addresses so we don't give suzuki the idea his site is becoming popular.

Baa Haa Heee!!! Beaker took his poll down rather than face more abuse. It must be killing him that someone else rigged his own poll instead of his guys. Come on, Super Dave: put up another poll. Don't let the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy beat you this easily.

Last time I looked ,before the poll vanished , the "NO ... don't bother to try" was at 75%.

If that poll is even close to reality then come the next election Kyoto is a dead issue with most voters.

... I guess Suzuki will claim victory as there was an error in the poll calculation like Kyoto.

The pole results page is still there though. Here is the page's results as of 7:25 MST 4/Mar

Thanks for taking this poll
Can Canada meet its Kyoto target?

Yes, and we can do it through domestic reductions. 1885 (11.75%)
Yes, but we'll have to buy some international credits to do it. 370 (2.31%)
No, but we should still try. 770 (4.80%)
No, so we shouldn't bother trying. 13013 (81.14%)

Total Replies : 16038

You can't double vote in the poll if you run a windows browser...it grabs your IP address and ID...Kate may have directed traffic to it but the numbers are not disputable.

If Lefty can't get his hordes out to counter the poll results , tells me suppoert for Fruit fly science is not there.

somebody should send that poll to the MSM and see if anyone reports it

I think the poll was rigged but not in the way that you are talking about.

This was a poll set up on a website where normally the only traffic would come from the FF congregation. It was set up to prove that an overwhelming number of respondents support Dr. FF and his religious crusade. CAN ANYONE DOUBT that the results of this so-called poll would have been used in communications to the public and the politicians about the support for meeting Kyoto targets??

Voters can't "rig" a poll, but it is pretty clear to me that Dr. FF rigged this one and was going to use it for his ends.

Its only because Kate found this and directed traffic that this nefarious scheme was detected and stopped.

As an aside I was somewhat heartened to see that of the adherents, not many supported buying credits overseas. Mo Strong will have to have a chat with his acolyte about this.

They took the poll down. I guess it was an "Inconvenient Truth".

Poll _is_ still there - go to
www.davidsuzuki.org/
NatureChallenge/
at_Home/
toolkit.asp

Note that the "Yes" vote has gone up.

Can Canada meet its Kyoto target?
Yes, and we can do it through domestic reductions. 1907(10.41%)
Yes, but we'll have to buy some international credits to do it. 370(2.02%)
No, but we should still try. 770(4.20%)
No, so we shouldn't bother trying. 15275 (83.37%)

Total Replies : 18322

mary T:

Look here for an article by the fly guy on DDT.

http://www.galtglobalreview.com/newtech/david_suzuki.html

So now Dr. FF is trying to rig it even more by hiding it deeper in the site.

He could make it even better if he turns off the counter if you vote no.

What a maroon.

Laugh of the day - great Steyn on carbon credits & al gore

Albatros is trolling hard & fast today, I note.

Hey, Alby! If you really feel like talking about the environment, why not answer the questions I asked you here?

mhb23re
[at gmail d0t calm]

mhb here's your answers

>Suzuki has the morals of a slug, to exploit this child in this fashion. Ditto, albatros, if you're cool with it also.

No, child labour in India and Bangladesh for the benefits of white rich westerners for the out of control consumerism is exploiting children. Getting children involved in the climate crisis is all a part of their education. Maybe you don’t like this video because it makes you look into the eyes of your own children and question your hostility towards the environmental movement.

>By the way, albatros, if the science for AGW is indeed so "solid", then why do you and your ilk rely upon fraudulent data such as the "hockey stick curve" to win converts?

You are reading too much into the hockey stick. It shows that the climate is changing and shows an alarming rate of change. It’s not the only “hockey Stick” in climate history, there have been many, but this one does coincide with man’s emissions of carbon. Just remember, the hockey stick only gives a handy graphic representation of what is happening in historical climate, but that isn’t all that climate science bases it’s predictions on. In fact the hockey stick graph makes no predictions whatsoever.

>Or rely on "consensus" when trying to apply the scientific method, when any opposing scientific thoughts are expunged? Or publicly denigrate and slander leading climatologists who oppose the groupthink and have theories to the contrary? Why do you support meteorologists who publicly proclaim that other meteos should have professional credentials pulled if they don't publicly swear fealty to global warming? Or otherwise try to squelch any form of opposing thought or debate? Why are you all so terrified of an inquisitive public considering something other than the hysteria of the AGW crowd?

If these scientists are fired from their jobs for not dealing with the reality of global warming then they are not effective in making change. I’m sure Greenpeace doesn’t want people in it’s roll that publicly, for whatever reason supports the fur industry, just as pro-lifers don’t want abortionist in their roll while running abortion clinics on the side.

>Do you ever question why, when the meteorologists can't get the weather predictions correct for the next two weeks, that we should risk our industries and economies in the blind faith that these same people (who were dead wrong on global cooling, the population explosion, DDT & others) will be spot-on in their predictions spanning the next hundred years?
Does that not strike you as a bit naive?

Speaking of naïve, to confuse climate with weather with all the information available out there today simply screams ignorance of the real problem here. Get it through your head, with no ecology there is no economy. Has it ever occurred to you that climate science has evolved considerably in the past THIRTY FIVE YEARS since the ice age was hypothesised?
DDT is another neat little issue for you folks isn’t it. I don’t know if you’ve ever noticed the incredible increase in raptor species that has been appearing in Canada in the past decade? This is due to DDT finally being eliminated from the environment. You can thank Rachel Carson, an environmentalist, for that. Then there is population explosion; wow where to begin. You do realize that the population explosion is the root of half the worlds problem don’t you? Get a copy of “The Ostrich Factor: Our Population Myopia” by Garret Hardin. Remember I said half of the worlds problems, the rest of the problems stem from religion.

>What about you, personally, alby? How much do you "walk the talk" on global warming? Indeed, do you walk, bike or take the bus, or do you have a car? Is it a hybrid or a smart car? Would you be cool with $5 or $10 for a liter of gas, "in the name of fighting global warming"?

Well lets see. Yes I own a car, and I commute about an hour to and from the university daily. I drive a Jeep TJ and a Caravan, which isn’t the most fuel-efficient form of transportation, but unfortunately I don’t have public transportation available where I live. If there were a bus I would take it. If I can walk, I do. I do purchase carbon offsets from http://www.cooldrivepass.com/home.cfm. Would I like to pay higher gas prices? I’d have no problem with a 5 or 10 cent carbon tax. The one thing you have to remember is the more we consume the higher the price will be so it’s consumption that will eventually lead to the $5 per litre of fuel. It doesn’t matter to the energy companies what price you pay per litre as long as you continue to pay. Being more efficient isn’t only good for the environment, it’ll be good for your wallet too.

>How big is your dwelling? Do you use air conditioning in either your home or vehicle? Only use your computer sparingly to save on those CO2-spawning watts?

The house is average 1400 square feet and has a high efficiency furnace and water heater. It’s an R2000 house with all fairly new efficient appliances. There are compact, fluorescents throughout the house that are never left on when nobody is in the room. My computer has an efficient LCD screen and is never left idling. I’m also moving next year which will give me the opportunity of building a house that’s as environmentally friendly as possible.

>Do you think - assuming there is even a shred of truth to the theory that man is causing AGW - that bankrupting our economy and sending $billions to China to help them build almost 600 coal-fired generating stations (and sweetening Maurice Strong's personal fortune in the process) will make the world a better place?

The economy will only get stronger when we deal with man made global warming. Only a few areas are going to suffer because they stuck their heads in the sand and didn’t make the necessary changes. For example, if Alberta wishes to remain prosperous they need to move to greener technologies before the world starts really moving away from oil based transportation.

>“Do you really blindly swallow everything an environmental shill (and well-paid one, at that) such as Suzuki huffs is the truth, especially considering that the science of global warming is not even close to his field of expertise? Do you ask your barber to perform surgery on you, or fix your teeth?”

Actually Suzuki knows what he’s taking about and he’s good at what he does. I don’t follow what he says, because there is far more information out there to absorb without “following” one or two people. As an Earth Science Major I see all kinds of information that supports what he is telling the public.

>Do you really believe in Al Gore, Saviour of the Environment….

Al Gore is just a talking head. Gore may not walk the walk but don’t let that fool you, the information he presents in the film is accurate. Suzuki is another story, he went around the country spreading knowledge and stirred up people to think about global warming and while doing so purchased carbon credits. That tour ended up being carbon negative.

>Do you have a job, alby? Maybe even in the industrial sector? Ever wondered where you'll work if your company can't afford extortionate carbon taxes or "carbon credits" and goes feet-up?

To be honest I have no sympathy for businesses that can’t go green. Without a planet nobody has a job. Better to tackle the problem now or it’s really going to get expensive. I feel sorry for the employees of companies that are just sitting back doing nothing to plan for the needed changes to come.

>No need to answer, alby, because I truly couldn't care less. But you might want to give it some thought before you keep blindly following eco-maniacs like Suzuki that would ruin our economy and standard of living over a scheme that relies upon junk science, fear and propaganda to make its mark. And to attract its marks.

Too late I already answered
>Or maybe it's just time for you to troll someplace else, eh?

So let me get this straight, you’d rather listen to biased information designed to make you bury your head in the sand so that others can continue to get rich at the planets (and your) expense, rather than listen to the opposing and true side of the argument

Heh. According to Jack's Newswatch, people are still voting on the CACHED version of the poll. The No vote is now at 17780, a 85.36% share.

Apparently the good Dr. wasn't speaking to a representative sample of the population when he was on his magical mystery tour...

Pukie Suzuki is as crazy as MARICE STRONG that wacko eco-freak from CANANDA i mean they are nuts and STRONG has this goofy temple built to honor the BABALINONAN SUN GOD he and PUKIE SUZUKI and wackos

albatros39a your close its not the opposing and true side of the argument, just the opposing side. The truth has never been said by the likes of gore or suzuki.

The results, which currently stand at 85.45 % No, are directly available here: www.davidsuzuki.org/files/absolutepm/xlaapmview.asp?p=9&msg=voted&z=

Un frickin believable... its a "polltergeist" it's dead but it still moves.

Now over 18,000.

BTW alby, I hope you catch the UK Channel 4 Program of the "Great Global Warming Swindle" coming soon. And I assume you have seen the discussion of lGore's investments...guess who will make a ton of money off of rubes like you?? Does it piss you off that the Bush ranch is more efficient than the Gore mansion. What about Suzuki's 5 kids...while he rails about overpopulation.

Or are your ears covered...La La La La

Albatros,

I won't try to answer everything you wrote, but here's a few points:

First of all, the 'hockey stick' is a concoction. When ALL the data is correctly included, the graph shows not only a current temperature increase, but earlier periods that were even warmer - well before greenhouse gases became the scapegoat du jour - hardly the convincing proof of AGW that it's been used for. It has (incorrectly) been used in many presentations to sell people on the global warming scare.

You're admitting that if scientists don't fit the agenda of their employers, then they should be turfed - somehow I expect you regularly accuse global warming skeptics of being beholden to those who pay their salaries, but don't see the irony in your own statement. If science is what it has been designed to be, then it is a search for truth through the natural world. You have very little faith in your position if you believe that opposing views shouldn't be given public consideration. Of course, misguided political agendas may be created from bad science (and I am admitting that this can cut both ways) - but we should have faith that with an open and honest exchange of ideas that the truth will win the day. The fact alone that the pro-AGW side attacks almost exclusively with ad hominem arguments is probably one of the biggest obstacles to people like me believing that your arguments are valid. On the other side, I hear the AGW skeptics openly engaging people with their views, apparently unafraid to put their ideas to public scrutiny - this says a lot.

I've mentioned your relativism elsewhere, but to justify the deaths of millions of people in the developing world through what was effectively a DDT-ban, in order to boost raptor numbers is appalling, quite frankly. You might as well carry a gun around and shoot people just before they accidentally step on a slug of a rare species. The enviro-nuts were absolutely wrong on that one, and need to 'fess up to it. Certainly, DDT can be used more discriminantly that it was initially, but the ban is a travesty.

As for your views on the population explosion, read some Julian Simon. We've been receiving dire warnings from the likes of you for literally decades now, with NONE of the dire consequences forecast coming to pass. You have stretched credibility well beyond the breaking point on that one. In fact, the biggest demographic challenges causing problems are the below replacement birthrates in most developed countries - in large part caused by the population scare messages.

You're in great company in blaming religion for society's ills - Mao, Stalin are just a couple of your bed-mates. The truth is that ALL of the major advances (health care, education, social services) you take for granted in our own decadent western nations come from the selfless actions of innumerable people of faith who sought to help their fellow man, in a way more tangible than anyone in the eco-movement will ever achieve.

I'm not sure what to make of your claim that climate science has evolved so much in the past 35 years. First of all, part of the reason why an ice age was being forecast was because global temperatures were actually dropping (hmm, how can that possibly square with the fact that CO2 levels were also increasing, if CO2 is the major culprit in AGW?) from 1940 up to the end of the 1970's. Secondly, although billions of dollars have been thrown at climate science, there is far more that we don't know than what we do know. The overall effects of the most-abundant GHG (H20 vapour) are far from known. The computer models have trouble predicting PAST climate, let alone future climate. To be truly scientific, we should demand a certain level of predictability in this 'science' before we commit major amounts of our economies to addressing it.

Let me just ask you a couple direct climate-related questions, and see if you can find information to repudiate them. First of all, it has been claimed that solar activity more closely mirrors global temperature fluctuations than CO2 levels. Secondly, it has been argued that CO2 levels often increase with global temperature, but lagging behind the temperature increase by X number of years. The latter argument makes a heck of a lot more sense to me, as warming water bodies would release dissolved gases, since gases are less soluble in warm than in cold water.

the only way to log repeated votes (beyond some extreme and exotic custom s/w) is to expunge the cookies, then disconnect and wait a while, then reconnect. and it only works for connexions that get a new isp addr. Im not sure if thats true of the instant link type isp's as opposed to my primus for example while requires a 'connect' click each time I power up.

it does work but is very time consuming and very very inconvenient since you either wipe out all the 'good' cookies also or spend even more time looking for the particular one(s) effecting the voter ID mechanism.

ergo, not likely, ergo the much dismaying vote results on herr suzuki's rigged poll are LEGIT.

If these scientists are not up on current science, then they are not of value in correcting the problem and need to be replaced by those that will help fix the problem.

Population- Julian Simon says that through population come innovation. I know the story, more people, more Einsteins, right. Do you honestly think this earth can support 6.7 billion people? If so, how high do you think it can go? At some point the earth becomes incapable of supporting human being, let alone other forms of life on the planet and we end up with a global Malthusian crisis. We are running out of energy resources and water we are running out of water. What does the US do when the Ogallala aquifer runs dry in a few short decades? Oil will become the new oil in the future. How can you possibly imagine that population isn't a problem?

Religion- How many wars have been connected with religion? Luck us, were neighbours with a country who goes to war over both religion and resources.

I've got a question for you. Do you understand what the global carbon balance is? If you don't, go look it up and then answer this. If man starts pumping millions of tons of greenhouse gases into the atmosphere, what do you think that is going to do to the carbon balance? Now what takes CO2 out of the atmosphere? Trees and the ocean, right? Ok so what happens when man not only pumps CO2 into the atmosphere, but also cuts down the trees that absorb the CO2? Answer? You get a net increase in CO2 into the atmosphere which leads to global temperature increase and leads to a increase of acidity in the oceans which results the loss of species which means a loss of fish to feed the growing number of people on the planet.

>First of all, it has been claimed that solar activity more closely mirrors global temperature fluctuations than CO2 levels.

There is more than one reason that global temperature will fluctuate. Right now there is no anomalous activity occurring on the sun so that doesn’t explain the increase in temperature. The answer is atmospheric CO2.

“Secondly, it has been argued that CO2 levels often increase with global temperature, but lagging behind the temperature increase by X number of years.”

That’s true, but it doesn’t mean CO2 isn’t responsible. To save myself a bunch of typing, I’ll refer you to this which is an excellent explanation of why http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2004/12/co2-in-ice-cores/

jimbola "Great Global Warming Swindle"? Saw that in television did you?

Poll Results as of 01:00hrs 5 Mar 07:

Yes, and we can do it through domestic reductions: 1920, (8.92%)
Yes, but we'll have to buy some international credits to do it: 375, (1.74%)
No, but we should still try: 774, (3.60%)
No, so we shouldn't bother trying: 18453, (85.74%)

Total Replies : 21522

... Hilarious!

Albatros, it's not just that there are more Einsteins (although that's certainly the case), it's that when you have free societies, the population pressures themselves create problems that the people within those societies solve. Although there is a period of time with difficulty, after the problem(s) is/are solved, everybody ends up better off. Yes, I believe the Earth can hold many more billions than 6.7 - sustainably. I agree that it's a counter-intuitive approach, but ALL the data supports it. Malthus (and Erlich, etc) was completely wrong - people have been making Malthus-like predictions even since Malthus himself - tell me, when was he ever right? As for water, the technology already exists (and will surely get only better) to recover oceanic water. As the need for this increases, it will become economically worthwhile to do so. Water is truly one of those absolutely renewable resources - what with the planet being covered 2/3 by water, I don't think there should be any fears in that regard.

Wars are not a uniquely religious phenomenon - they are a part of the human condition. In fact, the greatest purges of the 20th century (surely the bloodiest century on record) were primarily anti-religious, not from fighting between religions (which is part of why religious people are perhaps even more 'on guard' against anti-religionists than we are against each other).

Science requires innovation - if you only get people subscribing to a type of groupthink (which I'm not even prepared to admit exists on AGW, quite frankly), then you've lost a hugely-important segment of the scientific community. AGW has become so politicized, by people who overstate the case, whether it's 'The Day After Tomorrow', or 'An Inconvenient Truth', or any of a long series of apocalyptic pronouncements that never seem to come to pass, that you'll forgive those of us skeptics who believe this to be just the latest in a long series of announcements meant to get us worked up so we'll part with more of our money to support the latest enviro-fad. 'Wolf' has been cried about 50 times too often. Not only that, but I'm not convinced that these scientists aren't at the vanguard, promoting the scientifically-sound ideas that the rest are currently ignoring - time will only tell.

I'm not sure I can just take your word for it that solar variability isn't significantly responsible for temperature fluctuations. You didn't respond how it's even remotely possible that CO2 is the major culprit for AGW when, despite regular additions of CO2 to the atmosphere since the industrial revolution, that global temperatures dipped from 1940 through the 1970's.

If CO2 concentrations increase FOLLOWING an increase in temperatures, then, yes, it certainly does decrease the culpability of CO2. If you want to speculate that A causes B, but B precedes A, then you must have access to some kind of time-machine thingy.

How is a global temperature increase going to lead to more acidic oceans? As I stated earlier, higher water temp leads to lower gas solubility in water. More CO2 should be liberated from the oceans, leading to a lower acidity, all other things being equal. Do you have access to some research showing why acidity should increase with fewer acid-causing gases being able to become dissolved in it?

Not sure if this has been posted yet, but verrrry interesting!

http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/story.html?id=2f4cc62e-5b0d-4b59-8705-fc28f14da388

"tell me, when was he ever right" Easter Island

"As for water, the technology already exists (and will surely get only better) to recover oceanic water."

So they are going to irrigate the entire western agricultural area now irrigated from groundwater through the use of desalination plants. Ok, do you have any idea of the cost of such large project as that? Do you have any idea of the energy required for desalination? To give you an idea of the water required to be desalinated think of this; the Colorado River is one major source of water for the US southwest. It's average flow rate is 30,000 cubic feet per second at the Hoover Dam. As it passes through farmland and towns that sit on what is supposed to be natural desert, water is drawn off for human use. These days, most of the time the Colorado River no longer reaches the ocean because of over use. That 30,000 cubic feet per second flow of water from the Colorado River is only one of several sources of water for that region of the US.
Right now the largest desalination plant in the US sits in Tampa Florida. It has seven batteries of reverse osmosis filters, with each battery of filters being supplied by pump that is driven by a 2250 hp turbine. When it’s finally completed following several cost over runs, with all of the pumps running at maximum output, this plant will supply Tampa with 30 cubic feet of water per second or one thousandth of the Colorado River’s average flow. The cost of this water is expected to be the cheapest yet to be produced from a desalination plant at $2.49 per thousand gallons.
By 2020, the Ogallala Aquifer is expected to be 80% depleted and possibly unusable by 2050. This Aquifer supplies 30% of the total groundwater used for irrigation in the U.S.. In order to replace that water supply with desalinated water, the US would require the equivalent of 463 Tampa desalination plants supplying a total of 13438 cubic feet per second of water. Then add to that a massive pumping system that would be required to transport that water from the Gulf of Mexico to as far as South Dakota. The US will not put out that much in cost and resources when they can get that water from Canada at a fraction of the cost.

Don’t even watch “The Day After Tomorrow” if you’re looking for science because in that movie there isn’t any. Well, there is but it isn’t good science. Global warming will not lead to an ice age because the thermohaline circulation will not stop with the melting of the ice caps.

Solar output? The sun’s output has been increasing since about 1970. The problem with using that in explaining global warming is it has been increasing at a rate of about .05% per decade. In order for this to have an affect on climate, this trend it will need another 7 decades.

It’s getting late so for the rest just go to realclimate.org they do a great job at explaining many questions including the increasing acidity of the oceans.