Global warming or global cooling?
by Swaminathan S Anklesaria Aiyar
timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1034077.cms

It's not just what they drive, it's also how they drive it.

CO + CO2 byproducts are nonlinear with respect to velocity.

Serious environmentally-conscious citizens drive in a style most fuel efficient, don't they? Don't they all?

http://www.drudgereport.com/flash.htm

Czech president Vaclav Klaus has criticized the UN panel on global warming, claiming that it was a political authority without any scientific basis.

In an interview with "Hospodárské noviny", a Czech economics daily, Klaus answered a few questions:

Q: IPCC has released its report and you say that the global warming is a false myth. How did you get this idea, Mr President?•

A: It's not my idea. Global warming is a false myth and every serious person and scientist says so. It is not fair to refer to the U.N. panel. IPCC is not a scientific institution: it's a political body, a sort of non-government organization of green flavor. It's neither a forum of neutral scientists nor a balanced group of scientists. These people are politicized scientists who arrive there with a one-sided opinion and a one-sided assignment. Also, it's an undignified slapstick that people don't wait for the full report in May 2007 but instead respond, in such a serious way, to the summary for policymakers where all the "but's" are scratched, removed, and replaced by oversimplified theses.• This is clearly such an incredible failure of so many people, from journalists to politicians. If the European Commission is instantly going to buy such a trick, we have another very good reason to think that the countries themselves, not the Commission, should be deciding about similar issues.•

Q: How do you explain that there is no other comparably senior statesman in Europe who would advocate this viewpoint? No one else has such strong opinions...•

A: My opinions about this issue simply are strong. Other top-level politicians do not express their global warming doubts because a whip of political correctness strangles their voice.

• Q: But you're not a climate scientist. Do you have a sufficient knowledge and enough information?•

A: Environmentalism as a metaphysical ideology and as a worldview has absolutely nothing to do with natural sciences or with the climate. Sadly, it has nothing to do with social sciences either. Still, it is becoming fashionable and this fact scares me. The second part of the sentence should be: we also have lots of reports, studies, and books of climatologists whose conclusions are diametrally opposite.• Indeed, I never measure the thickness of ice in Antarctica. I really don't know how to do it and don't plan to learn it. However, as a scientifically oriented person, I know how to read science reports about these questions, for example about ice in Antarctica. I don't have to be a climate scientist myself to read them. And inside the papers I have read, the conclusions we may see in the media simply don't appear. But let me promise you something: this topic troubles me which is why I started to write an article about it last Christmas. The article expanded and became a book. In a couple of months, it will be published. One chapter out of seven will organize my opinions about the climate change.• Environmentalism and green ideology is something very different from climate science. Various findings and screams of scientists are abused by this ideology.•

Q: How do you explain that conservative media are skeptical while the left-wing media view the global warming as a done deal?•

A: It is not quite exactly divided to the left-wingers and right-wingers. Nevertheless it's obvious that environmentalism is a new incarnation of modern leftism.•

Q: If you look at all these things, even if you were right ...•

A: ...I am right...•

Q: Isn't there enough empirical evidence and facts we can see with our eyes that imply that Man is demolishing the planet and himself?•

A: It's such a nonsense that I have probably not heard a bigger nonsense yet.•

Q: Don't you believe that we're ruining our planet?•

A: I will pretend that I haven't heard you. Perhaps only Mr Al Gore may be saying something along these lines: a sane person can't. I don't see any ruining of the planet, I have never seen it, and I don't think that a reasonable and serious person could say such a thing. Look: you represent the economic media so I expect a certain economical erudition from you. My book will answer these questions. For example, we know that there exists a huge correlation between the care we give to the environment on one side and the wealth and technological prowess on the other side. It's clear that the poorer the society is, the more brutally it behaves with respect to Nature, and vice versa.• It's also true that there exist social systems that are damaging Nature - by eliminating private ownership and similar things - much more than the freer societies. These tendencies become important in the long run. They unambiguously imply that today, on February 8th, 2007, Nature is protected uncomparably more than on February 8th ten years ago or fifty years ago or one hundred years ago.• That's why I ask: how can you pronounce the sentence you said? Perhaps if you're unconscious? Or did you mean it as a provocation only? And maybe I am just too naive and I allowed you to provoke me to give you all these answers, am I not? It is more likely that you actually believe what you say.

Personally I think his best point is the one about wealth, technology and enviro protection vs poverty and nature abuse

The comment questioning Al's sanity is kind of funny, not useful, but funny.

Defintiely looking forward to his book.

There is a push on now....best to find ways to resist rash actions to give the real scientists time to gather their evidence....accoriding to the "believers" the world is going to continue to warm for decades anyway so why stop now....oh thats right we only have 10 years to save the planet....classic classic crisis creation to force action....if it werent so transparent you would wonder why more people dont see through it....

Same tactics used for Charlotteton, smae tactics used for Iraq War act now because disaster coming.....

Drat, I should have included a quote from Swaminathan's essay, here's one: "In the media, disaster is news, and its absence is not. This principle has been exploited so skillfully by ecological scare-mongers that it is now regarded as politically incorrect, even unscientific, to denounce global warming hysteria as unproven speculation." - that's from timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1034077.cms

Also, David Warren had an excellent essay on these matters last week - www.davidwarrenonline.com/index.php?artID=704 - where he wrote, "The solution, to this possibly non-existent problem, would be the positive introduction of more efficient energy sources that do not require oil, gas, coal, or firewood. Now, strange to say, global capitalism is working on this night and day, for there is big money to be had from a breakthrough. And nobody else is working on it. Killing the global capitalist goose will not lay the golden egg."

(I hope this comment is of the type you meant, Kate, when you wrote Use the comments for your own on-topic links. The way some people behave, I worry that I have might have misunderstood you.)

“Why is east Antarctica getting colder?”

So... we went from AGW to Climate Change. In light of the more recent temp records from the Antarctic region what should we expect next.

ASGW ---> Anthropogenic Semi-Global Warming

or

AHCC ----> Anthropogenic Hemispherical Climate Change

or

WYSIWYGCC-BIIAMF ----> What You See Is What You Get Climate Change- But Irregardless, IT'S All Man's Fault

Interesting article from Nir J. Shaviv, Associate Professor at Racah Institute of Physics.

Carbon Dioxide or Solar Forcing?

Great article by Brodbeck!

so using the 60 minutes/Elie Weisel logic . . . if they had a program where they had advocates of economic chaos resulting from the the pursuit of Kyoto goals, they wouldn't put a "devastation of lifestyle denier" on the program because.

I believe in all the science, not just those obligated to the C02 theory.

The IPCC jihadis are like kids when they tell a little lie, then get wedded to it and tell more and bigger lies to protect you from the embarrassment of admitting the first lie.

The IPCC picked one theory and sticks to despite all theevidence it is false. Because the theory is really the basis of a proxy campaign against western industrialized nations.

direct quote from Mo. Strong, Head, 1992 Earth Summit in Rio, the father of the IPCC/Kyoto ponzi scheme

"isn't the only hope for the planet that the industrialized nations collapse ?? Isn't it our responsibility to bring that about ?

Cosmic rays are being implicated along with the sun with so called global warming. It is interesting that the same cosmic rays have been found to be the cause of lightning..... the rays upon penetrating the atmosphere create a cascade of ionization that opens a pathway for electrical discharge..... and to think that we have only just found out this causal connection. It seems we are not as knowledgeble as we thought..... Were those who predicted global cooling simply ahead of their time?

Does anybody have the info where the money on carbon trading comes from and goes to and thru who. Haven't seen the facts anywhere yet.

A quick point of procedure if I may, Madam Speaker. K.C., are you just using the normal <a href="url">text</a> technique for your links? Every time I try it, it dumps me into the junk mail filter.

Serious environmentally-conscious citizens drive in a style most fuel efficient, don't they? Don't they all?

Of course so. I'm sure that big, diesel-burning bus that the holy rollers from the First Church of Suzuki are using to traverse this swirling cesspool of socialism on the Kyoto Kriss Krosses Kanaduh Tour gets the same gas mileage as a Toyota Yaris.

Wow, what the perfect religion this whole climate change phenomenon has become. Perfect for the modern day socialist, that is. A movement founded on a myth, understood by none, predicated on junk science, steeped in lies and brought to you by a fruit fly expert who is touring the country, trolling for doomsday sheep in his self-styled version of the Popemobile funded by a corporate welfare bum (Uncle Mo)with shady ties to mid east dictators (oil for fraud scandal) but that's all cool because the nasties that spew from the back end of the bus will be "offset" because the climate change cultists reserved some carbon credits prior to leaving the west coast on their cross country tour. You know the west coast? That's right, the place that dumps thier raw sewage into the ocean.

Meanwhile, we watch the tumleweeds go by as we wait for the silence of the complacent MSM to pass.

A quick point of procedure if I may, Madam Speaker. K.C., are you just using the normal text technique for your links? Every time I try it, it dumps me into the junk mail filter.

Posted by: Vitruvius at February 12, 2007 4:19 PM

I am using it.

I always preview first to make sure everythings okay

This whold global warming, ghg emmissions crap, and the reports generated to prove it remind me of that game we used to play at parties and in school. I whisper something in your ear, you pass it on, to the end of the line. What is said by the last person has no relation to what the original whisper was. How do you get 2500 people, from vaious countries, universities, labs and agendas to come up with one report. Look how long it is taking the committee to come up with a design for replacing the towers in New York. And politicians are upset that a whole country, Iraq, has not been rebuilt in 5 years.
If we have an election before May, when the final report of Kyoto will be presented, showing many assumptions made in previous reports, have been changed, lowered, thrown out, cdns might be voting on lies and innuendos put out by the liberals, but it will be too late.
The new committee Harper is appointing for law reform will have the ability to lay charges of election fraud, going back to adscam. Is that why the liberals are fighting so hard to discredit this.

Here's a link to & quote from another essay by David Warren, The Two Cultures, from a few days ago: "The decay of standards is not subtle. The academic science world, persisting on tax money, has been intellectually flatlining. It becomes increasingly a closed camp of ideologues whose job security depends on their avoidance of apostasy. In a word, science is being swamped by an almost religious scientism. Whereas serious, open-minded research has retreated almost entirely into the corporate research labs, where a different ethos prevails. This is the environmental scare that should worry us. That we are becoming, increasingly, the prey of sensationalism in the service of scientism."

(Emphasis mine.)

(Thanks, K.C., but it did it again. I'm just not going to try any more until Kate clarifies the situation, should she choose to.)

Here's a link to & quote from another essay by David Warren - davidwarrenonline.com/index.php?id=706 - from a few days ago: "The decay of standards is not subtle. The academic science world, persisting on tax money, has been intellectually flatlining. It becomes increasingly a closed camp of ideologues whose job security depends on their avoidance of apostasy. In a word, science is being swamped by an almost religious scientism. Whereas serious, open-minded research has retreated almost entirely into the corporate research labs, where a different ethos prevails. This is the environmental scare that should worry us. That we are becoming, increasingly, the prey of sensationalism in the service of scientism."

(Emphasis mine.)

Someone should refer this SDA thread to Dr. John Fyfe at Environment Canada (see calgarysun.canoe.ca/NewsStand/News/Columnists/Kaufmann_Bill/2007/02/12/3596069-sun.html), since he says:

"As for (climate change) deniers receiving media play beyond their credibility, Fyfe says they're "not working climate scientists and not anyone I've ever come across in scientific circles.""

We wouldn't want one of our public servants being ignorant of facts, would we?

Before anyone dumps on me, I am also an AGW-denier...I'm just pointing out this article for your information.

Well, I guess we have known for a long time that "Political Correctness" would come to "Reeducation Camps" with zero rate of return. Of course using the phrase "climate change" is dishonest; I doubt that anyone denies climate change - we did have at least one Ice Age, after all, and its relicts are evident in many places - certainly in Newfoundland, where most of the hills show the marks of glaciation.

Another thought - "climate change" might also mean "global cooling", as it did 25 years ago, in which case SUVs should be subsidised!

It is hard - as a physicist I have thought that it was part of my job to be sceptical; and will continue to think so.

We will see how bad it can get - after all, 90 years ago a bogus theory of economics and deeply flawed analysis of power structures motivated the impostiion of Communism on Russia, and led to a destruction of the Russian economy and society from which it probably will never recover.

http://adsabs.harvard.edu/cgi-bin/nph-ref_query?bibcode=2003JKAS...36S..75G&refs=AR&db_key=AST

lots of abstracts as science digs into variability in solar output

Awwww...all this second considered opinion....I was just starting to enjoy how stupid the witch hunters were stating to sound when they thought they had exhaustively bullied dissent into silence.

Damn, I was looking forward to seeing the burning pires of heritics alight...the acrid stench from the cremation of our rationality...a foaming mob to run in frenzied abandon with...another unrestrained MSM death Fatwa of unbelievers.

Now the witch hunters start to appear in the pillories.

Reason is such a spoiler.

Hey Vitro
Maybe you are junk and just got outed.
I love harness racing,I have studied winning from many angles,tryin to get an edge.when you look at the form you try to predict the future from the past.I have bought computer programs that take myriad computations into regard.Guess what.Throwin darts is the same.So Climate changers don't scare me .

Where's Jose and his 'rubbish, there's debate going on all the time' schtick?

Isn't it enlightening how AGW skeptics are lumped into the same group as Holocaust deniers? Nice touch, that.

The above link should be mandatory course material for every journalist student in the country.

Or, rather, every student interested in objective journalism.

It will seamlessly change from Global Warming to Climate Change to Global Cooling to Climate Stasis to . . . you get the picture. And all the while they'll claim "We were right all along."

Climate change? Proabably true. There was an ice age and it melted.

So climate change is a fact.

So why do so want people want Canada to commit economic suicide for something that just happens? And it is apparantly happening on Mars too. Could it be the sun?

No **** it could be the sun!

And I ask again, why are there people willing to commit economic suicide in Canada for this?

The question I ask Dion and Layton, what is in it for them? And how do you run the country in the newxt few weeks after you get to do all the things you want? Yeah right, If I do not burn any fuel I do nothing. And I do not spend any money. Nobody does. Then what?

Also, I heard on the radio Regina has idiling free school zones. Great.

Soon you will be looked upon as a smoker or a pedophile or something worse becouse, at -25 C you want to keep your car warm for the 5 min you wait to pick up your kid.

As I said, great

“The track record of any kind of long-distance prediction is really bad, but everyone’s still really interested in it. It’s sort of a way of picturing the future. But we can’t make long-term predictions of the economy, and we can’t make long-term predictions of the climate,” Dr. Orrell said in an interview. After all, he said, scientists cannot even write the equation of a cloud, let alone make a workable model of the climate."

I've been saying that for years. The problem is, there are too many journalism majors trying to report on Science in the media. Most of these journalists don't realize the first thing about how science works - just because one paper in Science says something is true doesn't mean that it's carved in bloody stone. The models we're currently using for climate change predictions are so complex that it's almost impossible to predict what the climate is going to be like in 100 years - we can't predict the weather next WEEK, let alone one hundred years from now.

Jeff,

The school zone idling issue is as much about safety and the students breathing in exhaust fumes - particulary the crossing guards - as it is about the environment, although that was also mentioned as a benifit. With 10 or 15 cars idling at - 30 C it would create a large cloud to make it hard to see and many people are to ignorant to slow down in school zones already - I have no problem with this idea.
You may disagree on Global Warming / Climate Change but I think the science is pretty solid that exhaust from gasoline engines is not healthy to breathe.

I've been finding more and more articles denying climate change recently. I'm wondering if we're beginning to see a paradigm shift in the focal point of consensus driven media/poli climate science.

"Trofim Denisovich Lysenko was put in charge of the Academy of Agricultural Sciences of the Soviet Union and made responsible for ending the propagation of "harmful" ideas among scientists. Lysenko served this purpose faithfully, causing the expulsion, imprisonment, and death of hundreds of scientists and the demise of genetics throughout the Soviet Union." - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trofim_Lysenko

Emphasis mine. Millions died.

Not to put to fine a point on it, but one of the reasons I'm double-extra skeptical of the whole "climate change is evil" conjecture is just because of the tactics that its salesmen are using. If they had due cause, they wouldn't need to use those tactics.

I see that at least one scientist is on record as saying what I was thinking when I heard the absurd and pompous pronouncement of the climate change committee spokes-thingie last week when He said essentially that the matter of climate change was now "settled"...

...and I remember thinking to myself; how ludicrous, spoken like a truth-manipulating, agenda driven political weasel and not a scientist....science, at least the real science I was schooled in, NEVER would pronounce a THEORY to be unconteastable fact...or intimate that the status-quo accepted wisdom of the day be concrete and not be challened with new thinking.

Another reason science and politics do not mix.

so about a thousand or so scientists reached a consensus . i wonder how they arrived at it ? did the guy who was the best talker win? or did they decide their consensus on what would sell best?

"but I think the science is pretty solid that exhaust from gasoline engines is not healthy to breathe."

There is nothing that says "Canadian identity" more than the scent of Arctic Cat exhaust hanging in the air.

Fanatical environmentalists are starting to behave much like the Roman Catholic Church did during the medieval ages Like the old church, they do not like dissent and anyone who disagrees is painted as a "global warming denier" or in other words, a heretic. The global warming advocates even go as far as comparing the "heretics" to holocaust deniers. True science does not prosper where there are biased views and stifling politics, as the scientific method demands that every theory be tested without bias, proven 100% and verified without bias before it is accepted as fact. Global warming is not fact, it is only a theory and should be treated as such unless proven otherwise.

Just wondering if the Theory of Evolution has been proven. What about all those math theories we learned in school, still theories or fact.
Heard a new phrase on Newman today, Jeff Norquay calling the Bloc Fiscal Imbalance Deniers.
Also some lib female mp trying to explain why the libs are flipflopping on their terrorist legislation. Have the islamofacists in TO made a large financial contribution to assist this flipflop. With all kinds of deniers coming out of the woodwork, can we call gta liberal voters truth deniers.
Harpers announcement re the Ecotrust got some support from all except the Bloc guy.

"but I think the science is pretty solid that exhaust from gasoline engines is not healthy to breathe."

Its still not as toxic as junk science mated to kleptocratic socialism

I agree Kate, There is nothing that says "Canadian identity" more than the scent of Arctic Cat exhaust hanging in the air: tinyurl.com/pzgqq

Today's Letters page at steynonline.com contains one from a geophysicist named Glen Williams (living in Dubai), who says (in part),

"Recently, I came across an interesting factoid in EOS, a newsletter journal published by the American Geophysical Union. One of the writers made passing reference to a result, apparently common knowledge in the scientific climate modeling community, that if CO2 levels were still at pre-industrial levels, we would be entering an ice age now! The quote from the article is, “It may well be that the intense worldwide exploitation of fossil fuel resources came just in time to provide a way to warm the Earth enough to delay, for a long time, the occurrence of another ice age.”

He goes on to say, "Talk about an “inconvenient truth”, I don’t think we’ll be reading about that in the IPCC Summary."

Damn right we won't!

Folks, somehow all of us just don't get it. CTV
carries a picture of Karla and the baby story as thier lead, which of course is way more important than our Prime Minister announcing a 1.5 billion fund to battle climate change.
I'm writing to CTV to thank them for setting me straight about which issues are the most important in Canada.
I will not check out cbc as they can get even worse. what disgusting news reporting,eh!

Mark Steyn's latest column also says that the term 'climate change' is passe. The politically correct term is now 'climate disruption'. I wonder what they are going to call it next week.

Mike Jenkinson's column in today's Edmonton Sun does a nice job of skewering the Kyotoites using their own logic.
http://www.edmontonsun.com/News/Columnists/Jenkinson_Michael/2007/02/12/3596763.html

Folks, I've been on the case myself. Have found information that leads me to believe that the whole climate change thing is a massive, brilliant scam... but one that's rapidly falling apart at the schemes. My suspicion of the whole thing being a conspiracy in which dissidents are treated like lepers and in which there's actually no particular science underlying the theory is being supported every day by evidence I come across... and I'm blogging it as I find it.

I'd post a bunch of urls to my posts, but the filter'd probably catch me for too many urls. So just start at the top of my blog and scroll down to see what I've found... and my analysis.

I'll tell y'all... I'm having fun with it. Last time I had so much fun was when Paul Martin and the Liberals were decimated day by day in the last election. Feels like deja vu.

http://thecanadiansentinel.blogspot.com

They want us all to become Zimbabwe. The whole world.

This cabal of dung eaters would have us all either dead or living like slaves, as already they figure we are. This translates into children in their minds that must be controlled. Them being the only adults.

This religion would be their boat of opportunity to skin the marks world wide. Its devilish conception in the wake of the Global freezing try is a clear signal of the billions these charlatan will rake in.

I have often wondered what secularists would replace Christianity with once they had demonized Christian's & Christ. After all people need something to believe in or worship. Even if its themselves. Be that religion, politics or any other Icon. To completely destroy as Pol Pot did his Nation to transform it into a mad Utopia. At any cost but to themselves. Mix in a form of false spiritualism & wham you can change the whole template of social intercourse & direction.

Not one in ten people now know what real Christianity is including church goers. TV is that pervasive with the Church in a slump. The world suffused in superstition.

I have noticed on TV & other media the pushing of this as rational.

Based on a modern form of animism & sprites in the environmental movement. You can see it in shows like Medium, Ghost Whisper & other spirit’s fascination.

The fact Climatoligists & others now call for the banning of any viewpoint hostile to green. The almost inquisitional atmosphere of their spokesmen (prophets). The skewed science. When these guys can't predict two days in a row of weather change.

Anyways The Romans never seen Christianity ( The savoir of their culture) coming nor the barbarians who would destroy them. Are we going to see a new State Church movement based on these Myths? All bowing before this man made idol of nature worship for socialism. An interesting speculation I think anyway.

False religions like false political systems can destroy entire Civilizations. In Rome’s case Christianity preserved the western heritage. Pagans views & all. This one aims to deconstruct our entire way of life based on computer models & feelings.

As Islam would do violently, by using our own weakness of multiculturalism against in concert with the Nations man made religious vacuum . In fact its prophets have made false predictions before. We must be wary of these hucksters, as they have no problems with millions of dead for wealth or reign. When has any socialist or other tyrants, political or religious ?

Yes Dorothy , the world has gone panic-stricken with psychosis.

Over at the Moscow Times, Susan Eisenhower has a review of Ethan Pollock's new book, "Scientist in Chief" - context.themoscowtimes.com/stories/2007/02/09/105.html - which begins like this: "As the 20th century recedes, it becomes increasingly difficult to explain to younger generations the peculiar combination of idealism, naivete, cynicism and brutality that was the hallmark of that century's totalitarian states. Ethan Pollock's "Stalin and the Soviet Science Wars" looks at this phenomenon through the lens of Soviet science policy in the immediate postwar period to explain Josef Stalin's determination to articulate and demonstrate "the compatibility of its ideology with all fields of knowledge."

[...] "As the Soviet regime was to discover, science policy by fiat comes at great cost. For those scientists who did not successfully "deviate with the Party line," as the Soviet anecdote went, it was their last mistake: "Countless scientists in every discipline miscalculated what ideologically correct science was supposed to look like. Stalin was the only person who could keep up with his own evolving interpretations."

(Eisenhower's essay contains a reference to lberia, hmm, were have I heard that name before ;-)

We have all belonged to a club or organization of some kind, and attended meetings, listened to ideas being discussed whether it is what to serve at the yearly fall supper or should there be a smoking room in school. (yes, when my kids were in highschool that was a big issue, and it passed)
Then there are the motions, resolutions, election of officers and what not. How many in the room actually said anything, asked a question, brought up their concerns, especially if they were on the against side. It was always the most vocal who always got up. Then there was a vote by show of hands, and you could watch to see how your friend, neighbor or leader voted and slowly put their hand with the pro side. Does anyone think 2500 scientists in a room, or a bunch of politicians are any different. Most of them have never read the reports, listened to both sides or in reality paid attention to what anyone is saying. The result, the kyoto protocol. If these so called experts were really serious, they would have a similar group coming up with reasons to disprove their ideas or experiments or computer models. Failing to allow dissent means they know they are full of the hot air they are warning us about.

Funny how the Left is so big on the importance of dissent, except of course when the Left has decided it is dangerous to allow it, like in the case of AGW.

If the NDP ever gets into power, let the counter-revolutionary war begin!

The global Left thinks it has finally found the premier issue upon which to accelerate their attempt at destroying free enterprise and freedom generally in the capitalist free democracies of the planet.

It's based in envy and very a complete misunderstanding of how things work.

I listened to the pitiful callers on the Bill (do) Good show this morning and the crux of the biscuit was what kind of car will we have to buy to prove that we care.

Small petty thinking as usual from the sheep who continue to make more productive right thinking, and less panicky tax-payers miserable and oh so frustrated.

The developing world has no such problems, nor will they ever.

The 20% of the world that is is Islam of course, know that all things are the will of Allah.

We are the only ones who must do the heavy lifting and put up with the load after load of Socialist horse crap.

The global Left thinks it has finally found the premier issue upon which to accelerate their attempt at destroying free enterprise and freedom generally in the capitalist free democracies of the planet.

It's based in envy and very a complete misunderstanding of how things work.

I listened to the pitiful callers on the Bill (do) Good show this morning and the crux of the biscuit was what kind of car will we have to buy to prove that we care.

Small petty thinking as usual from the sheep who continue to make more productive right thinking, and less panicky tax-payers miserable and oh so frustrated.

The developing world has no such problems, nor will they ever.

The 20% of the world that is is Islam of course, know that all things are the will of Allah.

We are the only ones who must do the heavy lifting and put up with the load after load of Socialist horse crap.

Does anyone remember Chaos Theory? The flavour of the month, "new paradigm", Big New Thing in pop science, way back in the 90's?

I recall that it was all the rage back then; seemed like every week you would open the paper and find another article about chaos theory. And the articles would always mention the so-called "Butterfly Effect" - something to the effect that a butterfly flapping its wings in Montreal could affect the weather in Singapore. This was trotted out as the standard illustration of how the weather was a textbook "chaotic system", one which was - by definition - impossible to predict with any accuracy.

I wonder how come we never hear much about this butterfly effect anymore? You would think it would have a significant effect on all these global warming calculations? It is a real puzzler.

so about a thousand or so scientists reached a consensus . i wonder how they arrived at it ? did the guy who was the best talker win? or did they decide their consensus on what would sell best?

john demerais :

They probably gain recognition of their myths much like the Jesus seminar defrocked ministers do. How they arrive at what they call the real saying's of Jesus.

Just drop in a Pink ball for wrong, a red for right or a gray for maybe. Black for made up.

All this cogitation & theology come by feeling whether it sounds like a saying He might say. Truth by Emoting. Than make tons of money hustling this garbage on TV as experts (without revealing their pasts of course) including your own feelings based Bible.

In this case the computer is their oracle. Suzuki & Al gore as avatars of Mother Earth.
Proclaiming our sins with future repentance by government proclamation. Indulgences by changing the toilet flow or shower. Putting in a neon bulb. Driving a smug mobile. Learning to live like a cave man.

A quiz on the IPCC 4th Assessment Report versus " An Inconvenient Truth"

http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/prometheus/

"There is nothing that says "Canadian identity" more than the scent of Arctic Cat exhaust hanging in the air"
If anyone has really been up north of 60, you will notice at first every building and vehicle smells like diesel or coal oil. After a while it seems to go away. When you return to civilization, everyone will notice that you smell like coal oil and diesel.

Weather cycles are just that: cycles. The output of the sun has been known to change also. There are a million and one reasons that climate changes and man is but one of them. Not as great on the impact scale as some would like but there is some small influence. I'm just waiting for one of those rip snorting volcanoes to go off and really screw Suzuki & Gore up. Hell, St Helen's ash was screwing up jet engines in Moose Jaw and that wasn't really that big as far as volcanoes go.

Texas Canuck: "Weather cycles are just that: cycles. The output of the sun has been known to change also."
For anyone who thinks the debate is over, Here's what Dr. Landscheidt had to say:

New Little Ice Age by 2030!

Analysis of the sun's activity in the last two millennia indicates that, contrary to the
IPCC's speculation about man-made global warming, that we could be headed into
a Maunder minimum type of climate (a Little Ice Age).

The probability is high that the minima around 2030 and 2201 will go along with
periods of cold climate comparable to the nadir of the Little Ice Age, and La Niñas
will be more frequent and stronger than El Niños through 2018 (Landscheidt, 2000).

//www.iceagenow.com/New%20Little%20Ice%20Age.htm

Flex the powerband people, grab a handfull of throttle, drop it down a cog and accelerate!

found this waaay down on the bottom of ctv.ca sci-tech section faqs
Who wrote that summary?

A team of government officials working in secret. They worked from the main report (a draft was released last spring). Their names are listed on the report.

Who wrote the main report?

A global team of 600 scientists. Another 600 scientists reviewed what they wrote. Each member government had a chance to respond and suggest revisions.

Beware of false prophets. Ever heard that phrase before. All the followers of this false religion proves is that we as people need to believe in something.
If algore, suzuki and other fear mongers get their way, what will they do with all their money, as we will all be reduced to nothing, as will the economy of the world. Now there is a draft algore for president, because he has been nominated for the nobel peace prize. Does that mean we should also draft Rush Limbaugh for the same reason.
Can anyone name any false prophet or phoney evangelist that has not evenutally been exposed.
How many cult members have willingly gone on their final journey, by kool-aid, suicide, or burning. Change that from kool-aid to kook-aid.

Mary T, the Dems don't think HC or Hussein Obama can win, they're much more comfortable with the idea of having the guy who invented the internet being their leader.

HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!

Thanks for the cheery outlook Gunney99. Looks like I'll have to put runners on my walker to get anywhere. I wonder if Canada Health and Wellness will cover that? And what about those three shells, John Spartan?

Interesting how the talk show hosts get their shorts in a trist when someone has the gaul to suggest that climate change may not be as severe as the so called experts say.
Lately when I hear anyone bring up Maurice Strongs name in relationship to Y2Koto the caller is imediately cut off and called a conspiracy theorist.
When will the media become a reporting entity and not a pusher of things to tax.

something_fell - Right, I remember the Cult of Chaos Theory -

I remember sitting in our University Senate one time, and listening to a senior Sociologist-Feminist-Postmodernist and so on, crooning on about how we couldn't set standards, how we must 'be open', how 'the butterfly flaps its wings'...

At which point, I sneezed. And then said - "So much for that butterfly". My senior colleague was Not Pleased.

But heck, if a butterfly can flap, so can I. Ahh, the power.

http://www.ted.com/tedtalks/tedtalksplayer.cfm?key=b_lomborg

Kate

It is a true Canadian that can appreciate the smell of a snowmobile(prefer Polaris.....sorry) on a bright crisp winter morning.

Nothing, I mean nothing can take me back to my childhood faster than the smoke from a two stroke starting up.

And more than once someone I have worked with has made the quote "I love the smell of diesel in the morning"

Only in Canada and more specifically, only in the west!

In the Moscow Times link Vitruvius mentioned Susan Eisenhower wrote: "Communist ideology demanded that there be no contradictions between the laws of nature and the teachings of Marxist philosophy...even the laws of nature were expected to coincide with Stalin's evolving interpretations of Marxist philosophy."

Sounds familiar, doesn't it? "Kyoto" has become so widely and mindlessly synonymous with goodness and babies, which can only be seen as a victory for the left. The only positive in it for the rest of us is that maybe this will be a wakeup call to all those who still think that a partisan, agenda-driven, fraudulent media is a mere annoyance.

Without the constant propaganda we could never have got to this point of being on the cusp of implementing a global scheme borne on a broad-base of supporters who don't have the first idea about all the contradictory evidence to the findings that Kyoto is supposedly based on, and who don't have the slightest idea about what implementation would mean in terms of their living standards and their freedoms.

To me, the final proof of the media's complicity in promoting Kyoto has been their absolute expunging of Maurice Strong from broadcast coverage. His unabashed world-government ideology, his connection to UN scandals, his profound power in the Liberal party for over forty years, even just the fact of his existence, it's apparently all just too nuanced for Good Canadians to hear.

Plus it wouldn't be very good for the Liberal Party of Canada. Imagine catching Keith Boag, mid-report, giving a bit of Kyoto background..

"Through his work in UNESCO, Strong promotes Gaia, the Earth God, among the world's youth. Strong is also the director of the Temple of Understanding in New York, which he uses to encourage Americans concerned about the environment to replace Christianity with the worship of 'mother earth'".

"Strong also directs the UN's Business Council on Sustainable Development. Under his leadership, the council tries to affect people's lives through UN policies that attempt to reduce the availability of meat products, and to discourage private ownership of motor vehicles, encroach on property rights, and work to reduce the number of single family homes. And make no mistake, Peter, the records show clearly that Kyoto itself was conceived by Strong as a step towards a world government based in the UN."

Mansbridge: "Sounds kind of scary, Keith. Why didn't this information come to light before, do you think?"

Boag: "Well, actually, Peter, it's all been available from day one. We just didn't report any of it."

Mansbridge: "All right, Keith, thank you. Keith Boag, in Ottawa."

(The imaginary Boag report includes information from www.nationalcenter.org/DossierStrong.html and sovereignty.net/p/sd/strong.html )

** Watch what they drive **

A medium small western town like Courtney / Comox on Vancouver Island seem to be SUV heavy.

Is it the logging, fishing and military heritage? Next to SUVs are the extended cab pick up gazoiline guzzlers, hereabouts.

I like my go anywhere 4cyl Jeep, but 4cyl in a Jeep is not exactly eco-friendly.

Would I buy GM*s new Volt? Would you?

GM vice-chairman Bob Lutz says, Chev*s new concept car, the Volt, is not really a hybrid as the small three cylinder engine is for charging the battery, not driving the wheels.

The Volt consumes about 4.7 litres of gasoline per 100 KM replenishing the battery. With about 50 litres on board, this gives the Volt a range of almost 1,000 KM.

More importantly, Lutz says, those who drive less than 64KM in an average day would never have to use the gas motor at all. Based on a typical motorist*s 24,000 KM-per-year usage. That translates to a 2,000 litres saving per year. [or $2000 at $1 per litre.], compared to a typical compact car. Not to mention 4 tonnes of CO2 emissions not emitted.

The Volt*s auxiliary power need not run on gasoline. With technology improvements, it could run on a variety of fuels such as E85, biodiesel, or hydrogen, due to the Volt E-Flex system. Photo. .

TonyGuitar.blogspot.com

I dunno. Is it rugged at all? = TG

Jeff; Smokers and pedophiles do not belong in the same sentence - you have been watching too much politically correct T.V. Please retract that statement - I smoke tobacco and I am of the opinion that second hand smoke 'death watch' hysteria is as much a hoax as Koyota. It is not about tobacco, it is about control.

I live in the Yukon where a lot of people smoke. The pathetic city council, in the city of Whitehorse, banned smoking in all public places. Guess what - a lot of the PRIVATLY owned (errr..'owner' pays the taxes)bars and restaurants are going bankrupt because of this intolerant Nazi type legislation. Grown up people make their own choices, there is room for smoking and non smoking establishments in an adult society. Smokers will not step outside when it is 40 below to smoke on their own time - at work - yes- after work, it is much more comfortable to go home or to a friends place for a smoke and a drink. You might not like it but that is how it is.

BTW, I happen to believe that bars are not health spas - drinking alcohol and smoking are choices (enjoyable vices) - one is no worse than the other, IMO.

I like the Chec President's message on owning private property. I think Private Property ownership is the foundation of Freedom. If we had such a concept in this country, we would not have a monopolistic Canadian wheat board or bars, restaurants, legions etc. going broke because they must kick out patrons who choose to smoke a legal substance.

Nigel Calder doesn't find AGW to be credible but he's willing to believe that cosmic rays govern the world's climate even though levels of cosmic rays have been flat for the past 50 years and their effect on climate is completely unproven.

The idea of cosmic rays influencing climate is in its infancy and it can't be entirely dismissed or disproven however unlikely it seems. But it's an awfully long and thin branch to crawl out on without any hard evidence.

"........... objective journalism."

Posted by: another skeptic at February 12, 2007 5:20 PM

SAY WHAT !!!!!????!!!?!!?!

They got 8 to 9 feet of snow there in the state of NEW YORK and they will still blame it on GLOBAL WARMING and where is AL GORE and his HOT AIR?

"This was trotted out as the standard illustration of how the weather was a textbook "chaotic system", one which was - by definition - impossible to predict with any accuracy."

I predict that in six months from now temperatures in the Northern Hemisphere will be at least ten degrees celcius warmer than they are now.

"My suspicion of the whole thing being a conspiracy in which dissidents are treated like lepers and in which there's actually no particular science underlying the theory is being supported every day by evidence I come across... and I'm blogging it as I find it."

Good luck with the whole "It's a Conspiracy" meme. Let me know when you found the climatologist on the grassy gnoll. Conspiracy theories are always fantasies. Their appeal doesn't last long in all but the most seriously unhinged.

"The idea of cosmic rays influencing climate is in its infancy"

I...I...can't even comment on the stupidity of this statement, other than to say, it's amazing that Jose's brain is still able to perform rudimentary tasks, like supporting his life.

"The idea of cosmic rays influencing climate is in its infancy"

I...I...can't even comment on the stupidity of this statement, other than to say, it's amazing that Jose's brain is still able to perform rudimentary tasks, like supporting his life.

Posted by: irwin daisy at February 13, 2007 11:44 AM

A leak in the tin foil hat, perhaps?

A caller on a talk show over the weekend (Money Talks) suggested that the GW nonsense was a cover up.
I have to think the guy may have been on to something. Left wing Parties can't get elected if the terrorist threat is the predominant preoccupation of the electorate. They need a crisis of the more touchy-feeley variety to frighten the voter.

Conspiracy is always fun . . .

Here are some pollution facts for B.C.

Alcan has special deals with the provincial government for huge dams to make Aluminium and chemicals. No big pollution there, eh, oh knowlegable one?

Well count me uninformed! I had no idea; not even a suspicion.

Alcan at Kitimat BC is the BIGGEST polluter.
52.8 Million kg.

In contrast, the next biggest polluter is Duke Energy, Pine River gas plant.
13.3 Million kg.

The rest, 8 pulp and paper plants and a couple of refineries, are in the
5 to 9 Million kg zone.

Compared to other plants, it looks as though Canfor Pulp and Paper in Prince George is doing something WRONG.

pollutionwatch.org/pressroom/releases/0051012b.jsp

http://tinyurl.com/2s3xng

Speaking of Alcan, [ *Black Bart*], seems their scam power proposal was turned down by Gordon Campbell*s provincial government for fear of being hung from the yardarm when the opposition makes Alcan*s record known during the next election campaign.

I always said Alcan*s anitiquated methods were a terrible waste of hydro power. I had no idea of the pollution however. = TG

"He is really exceptional in his energy, his range of comprehension, and his quality as a writer.... Nigel Calder remains supreme in his range and depth...he goes to immense trouble to get things right, and also takes pains with the clarity and elegance of his writing."--Sir Martin Rees, FRS, Astronomer Royal

"Conspiracy theories are always fantasies. Their appeal doesn't last long in all but the most seriously unhinged"

You mean like "Climate change DENIERS are all in the pockets of Big Oil, bent on destroying the world for petroleum profits"?

That kind of conspiracy theory?

Make you a deal, Jose. We'll produce our "grassy knoll" climatologist the day you produce a "climate scientist" who can prove any convincing level of AGW using non-modelling (ie, laboratory or experimental) techniques. You know, the kind of non-subjective reproducable experimentation that doesn't require coding of data to promote "hockey stick graphs" or other some such hilarity.

Deal?

mhb23re
[at gmail d0t c0m]

EBD at February 13, 2007 1:18 AM:

Great post.

The global Left thinks it has finally found the premier issue upon which to accelerate their attempt at destroying free enterprise and freedom generally in the capitalist free democracies of the planet

Ever wonder where all the hippie-dippy anti-capitalist Western loathers slunk to, once the Iron Curtain fell?

Scary thing is, that the "consensus" of the so-called "climate scientists" (many of whom are in totally unrelated fields, such as biology [Suzuki]) and the complicit MSM have really struck fear into the hearts of many Canucks, who believe we're all doomed unless we ditch the SUV's for smart cars, turn the winter thermo down to 60 F and toss the central air in the trashbin this coming spring.

Ain't. Gonna. Happen.

John - this is a great summary of Kyoto. I'm gonna steal it, K?

mhb23re

I've written an article on The Climat Code program on TWC. Here's the link:

http://potbellystove.blogspot.com/2007/02/climate-code-on-twc.html

I hope you well informed world enviro-engineers can fix things.

In the mean-time, this hybrid and EV stuff looks like a money saver and I would enjoy the fun of almost silent mountain roads driving.

Government of BC enviro web site:
Point of Sale Tax Reduction
Alternative fuel vehicles are new bi-fuel, hybrid
electric and other vehicles manufactured to operate
exclusively on electricity, ethanol, methanol, natural
gas or propane. Qualifying alternative fuel vehicles
have in the past been eligible for a refund of all or a
portion of the tax paid on the purchase or lease of
the vehicle.

Effective February 16, 2005, the refund is replaced
with a point of sale tax reduction. This means that
you may obtain the benefit of the tax reduction at
the time of purchasing or leasing a qualifying
vehicle rather than applying for a refund after
the sale or lease has taken place.

Motor vehicle dealers are provided with information
on eligible vehicles and on procedures for providing
the tax reductions at the time of sale or lease. The
point of sale tax reduction applies to all purchases
and leases of alternative fuel vehicles that take
place on or after February 16, 2005. Vehicles

Qualifying hybrid electric vehicles (not passenger
buses or shuttle buses) are eligible for a temporary,
but increased, tax reduction to a maximum of
$2,000. The tax reduction applies to new qualifying
hybrid electric vehicles purchased or leased on or
after February 16, 2005 and before April 1, 2008.
On April 1, 2008, the tax reduction amount will be
reduced to a maximum of $1,000 and will be
eliminated on April 1, 2009.
More Info: Bulletin SST 087, Alternative Fuel
Vehicles: Calculating the Tax Reduction

rev.gov.bc.ca/ctb/publications/bulletins/sst_085.pdf

Add $2000 rebate and $2000 in gas you don*t buy in the first year
and the Hybrid or EV begins to look viable. And I just heard on
the news that Gordon plans to raise rebate values. =TG