I guess when the truth is too hard to deal with, the MSM has no where to turn but fabrication and distortion.

"NDP Leader Brian Mason described Alberta's record as appalling and called for a moratorium on new oilsands projects."

Gee, I guess Alberta doesn't need another NEP to encourage suicidal behaviour amongst its own citizens, eh?

Seems like the MSM is as "criminally organized" as the Lie-beral's are.

Ahhh, the vast Liberal/MSM conspiracy...it looks like the Conservatives contempt of the media is comming back to haunt them.

Iberia:

If memory serves, the media had contempt for the Conservatives long before the Conservatives developed their own particular loathing of the media.

Fortunately, "freedom of the press" is no longer restricted to those who can afford to own one.

But did Holland ever say that the "consequences" would be nationalization? I could give less than half a crap over either the Libs or Cons (they are equally as bad from my perspective), but I just don't see where Holland says it. I see Stelmach saying he think that it is what Holland implies - but Holland never actually says it.

I also don't see where Holland says that they would "stop oil sands production." Adler asks him "You mean taking less stuff out of the sands is what you're saying" and Holland replies "Exactly, using it responsibly, over a protracted period of time, making sure that we can actually meet our international commitments to reduce greenhouse gas emissions."

He is replying to the question "taking less stuff out," not ceasing all production.

I just think that as far as the MSM goes, you are stooping to their level - you are reading into his statement and finding what you want. Politically, it serves the CPC to paint Holland and Dion as wanting to nationalize the oil industry and stop production despite the fact they never said it.

I know in advance that most of the replies will be "but there the Liebrano's" or something about lefties, but let's stick to what is being said. And I just don't see it.

Why Unions support a job destroying NDP with their stated gols of making less jobs plus keep only programs that increase poverty, is beyond beleif.

These are a shifty lot.

By the way Iberia you have it backwards. They (MSM) have shown their true face in this Holland Blackout. One most people will not forget or forgive.

Now we see how this Country has gone nuts. By the way try searching out the old arcives of papers than comapring their readership to today. Its the MSM that's killing itself by bias.

Tyhe real Journalists have figured out people want reality, not fiction to feed on.They are making a lot of money doing it as well. The liars are in desperation. Check it out.

"Taking less stuff out of the oilsands" isn't Mark Holland's call - unless he intends to enforce it on Alberta by the back door, through federal regulatory intervention.

At that point, he's already crossed that line in the oil sands. There is no way to weasel out of his statement. The intent was clear.

In the Rutherford interview, the question was clear. And he didn't answer with a direct "no". He left the threat hanging.

For a province that has endured one NEP, you don't get to make such statements and then wander away pretending you were misunderstood.

The most generous thing you can say about Holland and Dion is that they are dangerously ignorant of this issue and its implications for national unity. That fact alone should disqualify either from positions of legislative authority.

Alberta Premier Ed Stelmach is getting a lesson in CP news dissemination early in his career as head honcho in the province.

Fortunately the duplicity of news disseminators with a left wing agenda can be circulated on the internet within hours,

if not minutes of publication of bias, exactly as this issue is now on SDA.

For a time Mark Holland may be given his free ride regarding his statements, but in the long haul the blogosphere will have cast enough light onto a piece that was 'nuanced' to suit the agenda of the news disseminator - CP.

Absolutely, the Canadian MSM is biased in favour of liberals.

And the LPC will nationalize the Tar Sands just as soon as they regain power from Steve Dubya later this spring.

Since your one and only shot at a neocon devolution is about to fail, why don't y'all move south to the USA?

OK Dodos,

Any attempt by the Feds to regulate the pace of oilsands development would be illegal and unconstitutional. The Feds would be usurping the function of the Alberta Energy and Utilities Board.

Go here and plow around in the "Distribution of Legislative Powers" section. You don't need to be a lawyer. You will also notice that environmental regulation (unlike resource development) is a power not ascribed to the feds or the provinces.

http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/Const/index.html

What Stelmach doesn't mention, because he likely thinks Holland is just a rogue idiot, is that a move by Ottawa to regulate resource development would abrogate a key condition by which Alberta entered confederation.

And if Dr. Didlittle does in fact want to stick his tongue on that particular third rail he'd better be ready. Because the conflict it would ignite is going to involve issues much more existential in nature for Canada than a 5% contribution to man made global GHG emissions.

Quantum, if we did that, who would pay for all your wonderful national programs?

Besides, it'd be easier to pass the hat to help you move south. I'm thinking there's a nice little shanty in Caracas with your name on it. You could be a handy lapdog for regime just a little less corrupt than the Dionites you drool over.

A Quantum: When we move to the USA after the divorce, like any abused spouse, we will take Alberta with us.

Sorry for the confusion, I was being sarcastic. I thought y'all just whine about the "liberal media bias" thingy for fun. A sort of political venting. I had no idea y'all seriously believe that, as opposed to the notion that the media in Canada prints what Canadians want to read.

Besides, I'm confident the development (and mass production) of an excellent energy storage device for use in electric cars is just around the corner. Certainly long before a majority of Albetans could be convinced to separate from Canada.

yukon,

Out of curiosity, which national programs are you assuming I'd like the Tar Sands (or to be less of a jerk, I'll say taxes in general) to pay for?

lberia: "..it looks like the Conservatives contempt of the media is comming back to haunt them."

Huh? I thought the MSM was a business. What do the Conservatives have to do with MSMs' customers ... you know the people that read/watch/listen or the advertisers. It's MSMs' contempt of them that has MSM swimming in a sea of red ink.

It is also this contempt that has their former customers running to find alternatives. Fortunately alternatives exist ... and more are coming.

Bart, I rather suspect that the feds would use the "Clean Air Act" and regulations thereto as well as the taxing power to impose caps on emissions. If a plant exceeds the cap it is fined/taxed.

All constitutional, all legal: which is an excellent reason why the Liberals must not gain a majority.

Then all the Conservatives have to do is hope that they can stay in power long enough to see all those conspiratorial MSM outlets go broke.

Well Quantum, hard for you to be less of a jerk then you have already proved yourself to be, but go for it, you might win the SDA jerk award.

As an Albertan, from birth, I will never make my kids live through a NEPII, NEVER! So, call us Albertan's knockle dragging neo-cons all you want, but, we are the force that is driving the Canadian economy, you want us to leave, just watch us!

Hope you don't freeze in the dark. Maybe hydro Quebec can save you!

The Republic of Western Canada.....Sounds great!

The point being Kate that you are implying, both implicitly and explicitly, that Holland said he wants to nationalize the industry or shut it down. He didn't say that. Attack him for saying that he would "take less stuff out of the oil sands." You are implying that he is saying more in order to gain more political points against your opponents. As I've always said - there is more than another fodder to attack both parties, no need to imply more (or make stuff up) in order to make your point.

Here's a proto-Librano philosopher offering some advice to dodo, quantum and the rest of the liberal boot-licking gang that come her to spew their bile.

The other thing all the Conservatives can do is DONATE to the CPC. The MSM won't get our message out. We have to do it ourselves. Remember, for any donation up to $400 you get back 75% come tax time. I send smaller amounts when I can and it adds up. Then I get most of it back.

The big advantage the CPC has is the cash to fight an election. Lets all help to keep it that way.

hunter, scientists (I know I know, they're just another branch of the LPC, ROFL!) are rapidly closing in on several different types of energy storage devices (for you scientifically illiterate cons, think batteries). Couple that with a plethora of diverse cheap, residential solar photovoltaics coming online (even sooner) and Oilberta is out of business.

Central Canada won't have to kill Tar Sands development, the market will. And soon.

Looks to me Hapless Eddie will be an easy eastern media Kick boy.

As for the lapdog media pushing against Alberta...frig 'em...It's provincial jurisdiction and the ONLY people that have a say live in the province....do we have to mention there will be consequences for an eastern media feeding frenzie on Alberta?

kate

Good point. This is going to be hard for the libs to walk away from. I heard both the Adler and Rutherford bits. The intent seems clear.

Quantum Lib.

As an actual Albetan.....Albertan if you will. This ain't no joke. Please enlighten me.This free electrik thingy sounds sooo coool!!!

Syncro

A Quantum Liberal:"the market will. And soon."

Ballard Power Systems Inc. was founded in 1979 under the name Ballard Research Inc. to conduct research and development in high-energy lithium batteries.

Help me here ... that was 28 years ago, right? Still in demonstration ... been at least 8 years of that.

Don't get me wrong, I (and I think everyone) would love to see an alternative energy solution. I know it will happen ... just doubt a practical solution any time soon.

Lithium batteries? What a joke. If that's the extent of your knowledge regarding energy storage, then I'll just laugh all the harder when your oil dream ends and your separation fantasy becomes financially impossible.

lberia,

I don't think the Conservatives are "hoping" anything ... think Super Bowl ads.

Please splain...oh wise ones.

Syncro

(not-so) Fast Eddie says that it "...will bring about dire economic consequences right across the country."

How about dire political consequences like the end of AB's participation in Confederation?

What Mr. Holland - the natural resources critic for HM's Oppositon Party - was threatening was nothing less than a usurpation - a takeover - of Alberta's (and SK's?) sovereignty over its resources and the best Stelamch can reply with is that it will hurt all of canada (i.e. that those who would do this would suffer too)?

Mr. Ed is a naive child when it comes to federal-provincial relations. Time for him to grow-up and grow a pair.

A Quantum Liberal,

I did not claim I knew anything about energy storage. I took a quote from a Vancouver based company, Ballard Power Systems Inc. I thought they might know something about energy storage ... taxpayers have been pumping millions of dollars into them.

I think the link below shows the latest non-practical cell.

http://www.ballard.com/be_informed/fuel_cell_technology/how_the_technology_works

Quantum Liberal:

Please explain your theory(s)for your projection of fossil fuel's imminent demise as an economic energy source.

As someone who has been involved in pretty much all aspects of energy from nuclear to fossil to inorganic renewables (solar,wind,tidal and hydro) and organic renewables (waste and plant-based) for the past 20 years, I would very much like to learn about something that I haven't heard of so far.

"How about dire political consequences like the end of AB's participation in Confederation?"

That's what the Emergencies Act is for. So go ahead and fantasize all you want...it will never happen.

However, if you have a problem with the way Canada is (or possibly will be) run, feel free to pack up and drive south. No one will stop you.

Getting this issue raised is important, but Ed Stelmach doesn't seem to be nearly as good as raising shit about it than Ralph Klein would have been in his prime. Fortunately, Ted Morton is Alberta's minister of sustainable resource development - I presume this relates to oil sands also (correct me if I'm wrong).

The scenario of the liebrals attempting to stop oil sands development is merely hypothetical at the moment (and should give extra motivation to ensure that the liebrals don't get a majority in the next election), but it would be prudent to hedge ones bets by joining one of the separatist Alberta parties. Having gotten disgusted with politics once Reform morphed, I'm not up on which the best party to join would be, but if a separatist party had a few hundred thousand members this would send a strong statment to Ottawa (as well as putting into place necessary organization to use if necessary). I happen to live in the interior of BC but would have no hesitation supporting separation from TROC should the situation come down to this. A number of people have suggested joining the US which I think would be a mistake. We could take the US constitution but leave behind much of the statist baggage that the US government has accumulated. All hypothetical of course.

The plan that Holland seems to be so opposed to involves, I believe, raising oil sands production to around 5 M barrels/day and building signficant refining capacity in Alberta. This would do a lot to lessen N. America's dependence on foreign oil. It would be especially nice if a large nuclear power program were to go along with this oil sand expansion.

I suspect that Quantum Liberal's hints about revolutionary energy sources are merely BS. I would love to have a fusion powered automobile with a room-temperature superconductor battery, but I doubt I'm going to see anything like this in my lifetime, unfortunately. Even if something like this was waiting in the wings, it would take decades for such fusion powered vehicles to suplant existing gasoline powered vehicles. Ironically, should something like this be out there, Alberta would probably be in the best position to attract this type of industry to the province given the huge amount of money it has in its heritage fund.

In the short run, if Ontario is so in favor of meeting Canada's Kyoto committments, I suggest now would be an excellent time for them to start. I believe this would require them to cut their fossil fuel consumption by 40%. Every human is equivalent to a 100W bulb, and this would be as good a time as any to end the wastefull practice of having only a few people in an apartment. Penguins at the south pole are able to stay warm by congregating in large masses and by congregating in groups of a few thousand Ontarians could stay warm without making global warming worse. This might disrupt sleep a bit as people on the outside would be inclined to migrate towards the center of the mass as they get cold, but as penguins manage to do this while incubating eggs on their feet I'm sure people would be able to do this far more easily. After all, UN experts tell us that that unless we stop CO2 emissions, global warming is going to make winters much much colder.

Iberia:

If you think that the actions that Mr. Holland suggested would not have severe political repercussions then it is you who is fantasizing not me. (and it is hardly a dream for me to see the promise that this Confederation has for all who live within it torn apart by ignorant attempts at confiscation)

If Central Canada thinks it can pull a stunt like dictating the pace of oilsands development in AB and get away with it, it will get what it deserves should they actually try to do it. Alberta will not be dictated to - not this time.

loki:"correct me if I'm wrong"

Your wrong - Ted has fish and forests.

Mel Knight has energy.

The msm has gone hysterical on the Kyota thingie, they almost foam at the mouth. Are they putting something in the water at the forth estate?

Msm have almost abandoned all serious news stories. They have two themes; ramble on about incidents with a sentimental, emotional twist, right on 'Q' their eyes gloss over (for the sad) and their mouths twist to show how much they 'care'. The other theme is Koyota, over and over; for that theme their eyes take on a fanatical white eyed big pupil freaky look and the mouth is a slit. If they mention the Canadian Government they call our chosen government the "Harper Conservatives" and look like nasty, spoiled teenagers who just had their car privileges revoked. They actually sneer! How can they look at themselves in a mirror? Don't they know that we can all see right through them? Those newspersons are all past 13 years of age but they appear to be 'stuck' in the tweenny years, mentally and emotionally.

Do they believe the old line about the 'nice soft, comfy fur' that they will have to sit on if only the Liberanos and French citizen Dion get themselves back into power? If the French citizen that they are protecting ever gets into power he will gut the economy of what is left of this nation so bad that they might find themselves working to make a living. And it will not be 'izzy' money in Alta oil patch - those soft palmed, mental midgets would not last ten minutes if they ever got a job - even as a cook or cleaner!
My mom says 'Be careful what you wish for', I'm happy to pass that on to the people that would sell my beautiful country to the 'shackles for humanity' crowd and their elitists masters.
The Holland threat is not being discussed because the msm is, as Kate says, endorsing what he says! It is not newsworthy because the msm want to send the message that it is not controversial to steal from the west to gratify the Liberano -socialist elitist crooks. That is the way it has always been done, 'what is to talk about'? Msm want things 'back to normal'.

We must not let this threat go unanswered, French citizen Dion has to either get rid of Holland or endorse what Holland says - he must be made accountable. Our nation needs the answer right now.

Holland: "WE will manage that resource"

Waugh (Edm Sun): "I hope they have a fresh copy of the Clarity Act down at the Legislature."

I'm thinkin' the Clarity Act trumps the Emergencies Act, no?

Sorry guys I think you are all over reacting.

If the liberal win the next election, and that is a big IF, Dion will soon realise that he cannot do anything to stop the continued development of the Alberta tar sands.

The Americans government now has a big bull’s eye on the Alberta part of the Canadian map. They not only want our oil, they absolutely need it! Any attempt by Dion and his buffoons to stop the development of the Alberta tar sands will result with one phone call from the president of the United States, it doesn’t matter if this president is a republican or a democrat, because either of them will say three words to Dion that will send the poor man running and screaming incoherently.

What three words you may wonder could send a once sane academic into utter lunacy?

Autopac? What autopac?

Thanks for the correction ural. I just assumed that oilsands were a renewable resource, but happened to be using the wrong timescale.

Too bad he doesn't have this portfolio.

the first question regarding electric cars is"where the hell are you going to get the electrical capacity to charge all those batteries?????"...are you saying that the librano/moonbat crowd is all of a sudden going to embrace nuclear power????let's see, premier mcidiot will not even apply for the building permit for one new nuclear plant.....then the safety issues come to mind..once again, a typical librano/moonbat living in some sort of utopian dreamworld where we all drive electric cars, eat soy, and live in straw houses....librano idiot!

I was kind of wondering when someone was going to point out the difference between "source" and "storage".

The solution to our energy problems - bigger batteries.

Holy cow.

C'mon folks...A Quantum Liberal has got a point...pretty soon now, the Starship Enterprise will arrive from the future and teach us about dilithium crystals and our reliance on oil will end. Don't you folks watch the movies?

/sarc off

AQL, read any technical publication you want (not science fiction magazines) and you will find that the implementation of any of these new energy sources are decades away from supplanting oil. Even hydrogen power cells (which are one of the the closest new technologies to implementation) will likely have the hydrogen produced from oil / gas.

You shouldn't have wasted your post-secondary education on a Bachelor of Arts degree if you wanted to talk about Applied Science.

Interesting is that Paul Stanway and Tom Olson from the MSM were recently hired by the Stelmach gov't to do communications - probably Feb 1.

Olson did political writing for the Calgary Herald while based in Edmonton and covered the leadership race.

So far the gov't reaction to the Holland rants doesn't seem to be what a whole lot of people are expecting to get.

There are times when silence is golden but as regards this issue, it is probably not one of those times. The time delay in response has already spoken volumes and whatever comes down now had better be very good.

The Auto Pact was ended by a WTO dispute panel decison in 2001.

Is this not the epitome of AGENDA JOURNALISM.

They've blatantly taken sides on a very legitimate debate, and their openly advocating for that side.

Not in opionion pieces. But in reporting (and failing to report) only certain aspects of the news.

A blatant abuse of thier position as "trusted purveyors of news and information."

"However, if you have a problem with the way Canada is (or possibly will be) run, feel free to pack up and drive south. No one will stop you."

Well, yes, the INS will stop you. Canadians are not free to emigrate to the USA as they wish.

By your logic, Iberia, Kim Jong Il can use the same response to silence his critics. Those who do not like his leadership are free to leave.

How about this, instead: "if you have a problem with the way Canada is (or possibly will be) run, feel free to exercise your right to kick the leadership in the backside, as hard as you can, until things change for the better."

You really have to wonder about individuals like Quantum Liberal. Are they truly unaware of the depths of their own ignorance? Where do they think the energy stored in those batteries comes from. It reminds me of an information meeting I attended back in the 80. Some idiot stood up and asked an official why we would want to use something dirty like natural gas for energy when we could use a clean source like electricity. I'm not kidding. I guess this fellow thought there was some kind of giant plug in the sky providing electricity.

Canada has become an increasingly urban society. Urban dwelling have very little first hand knowledge of were the neccessities of life come from. They have no concept of the hard work that goes into providing the priviledged lives they lead. This makes it very easy for the MSM to lead these urban dwellers down the garden path to drink the Kyoto Koolaid.

Do these people not think farther than their noses. How in the world could we possibly reduce our energy consumption by 33%. How many people would be content to heat their homes to 14 degrees C? What about all those Urban Ontario people who travel 2-3 hours a day to go to work? They should all give up their nice homes in the burbs and live in highrise shoe boxes so they can all walk to work. How many of these Urban Ontario people are going to give up their air conditioners in that humid 30 degree heat? Are they going to want to give up their fresh fruit and vegetables in the winter time? How about all that energy wasted running luxuries such as TV, radio and computers ? How about reducing the temperature of your hot water for shower by 35% ? Wouldn't that be nice? We could also all start eating raw food . How about going to bed as soon as it gets dark so we don't use energy for electric lights? I could go on and on. If this Kyoto nightmare ever comes to pass and the rubber hits the road the cold hard reality will hit with a vengence.

Precisely, Kate. Some people honestly, if naively, think that good batteries are all that are required to end our energy woes. Most look like you've beaten their puppy when you explain that the energy has got to come from somewhere.

To their credit, some people attempt to think. They point out that switching to electric cars would solve the urban smog problem. I get this really strange look when I ask them if they let their dog poop in the neighbour's yard. Clueless!

A quantum liberal says... "Couple that with a plethora of diverse cheap, residential solar photovoltaics coming online"

I dabble professionally in this area: No such photovoltaics are coming on line. I am aware of what likely are the highest efficiency devices on and about the planet. I have a reasonably good grasp of the design criteria, manufacturing requirements and economics.

There are two potential solutions for mass solar power solutions: (1) polymer-dispersed core-shell colloidal quantum dots, or (2) multi-junction, multi-sun semiconductor-embedded quantum dot systems with solar concentrator. The first potential solution needs some major physics and chemistry work, and is a potential environmental nightmare. The second is a serious engineering integration problem, currently fantastically expensive, and far from prototyping, let alone mass deployment.

And then, of course, there's always the problem of convincing the sun to shine 24/7, and paving over major portions of real estate with collectors.

Ladies and gentlemen, I hate to keep disabusing the faithful, but solar will always, by its very nature, be only a supplemental source. Its major potential contributions are in energy diversification, which is a sane de-risk strategy, and in reversing urbanization trends.

A Quantum Liberal:

Um.  Can you say "feedstock"?

Tarsands (and natural gas) are at least as important as starters in the process of creating various synthetics as they are in being burned for energy.  One of the reasons that China and India are demanding so much crude oil is because of their need to build roads, made possible by a mixture of bitumen and aggregate, thus creating asphalt.  And of course, their textile industries need large quantities of synthetics, made mostly from natural gas.

So go ahead and build your "batteries."  It'll hardly make any difference.

I was just reading some of todays editorials at http://www.nationalnewswatch.com/ (great news aggregator) . I came to the conclusion that the enviromental conversion by our Prime Minister is another brilliant move. The MSM is back pedalling like crazy. They are actually questioning the validity of this Paris report on climate change. I guess PMSH is using child psychology on the Canadian Press and it's working like a charm.

I think the Libs will win the next election big time! Of course I also believe the end of the world is soon and I see no other way that could happen:)

Hey QuantumLib: Too bad science can't harness liberal hubris as an energy source...there's so much of it and it is an infinite waste product.

It takes a technically illiterate Lib to ignore the role petrochemicals play in the materials their world is built upon...or the reliance on petro fuels for all the technology that builds their worls and supplies it with food/goods/tramsport...we won't see our oil dependency vanish any time soon but we will se hybrid motor technology and fuel scrimping gren-tech in heavy equipment....and I really wish you luck with your "magic battery" (TM)I hope it provides the power and tourque to mine the minerals that make your battery, build your city, haul your goods to the supermarket, or get your crops in and harvested, or transport a family of 4 to relatives 500 miles away. Combustive fuel provides the power needed for the technology that does all our "heavy lifting". Society's fule needs go beyond your narrow reality of a personal tranport vehicle or home heat.

The new and coming cost and wast saving extraction/delivery technology in the oil patch and the fuel efficiency tech used in industrial and commercial transport systems will ensure that petro fueled logistics and infrastructure industry remains viable and enviromentally conscious...and a petro fuel user for at least the forseeable future.

When I hear science worshipping tinhorns like Quantum lib offer these superficial utopian solutions based on their very limited understanding of the working world and the prodution cycle, I get a laugh. It's like listening to a file clerk giving a structural engineer advice on how to build bridges. Libs should stay cloistered in their CUPE cubicles and leave the hands-on productive work that actually changes the world to people qualified to do it.

QL's magic battery probably hasn't the pop to keep his vibrator going on one of his extended liberal "brain scarfing" sessions :)

Eeyore said: "C'mon folks...A Quantum Liberal has got a point...pretty soon now, the Starship Enterprise will arrive from the future and teach us about dilithium crystals and our reliance on oil will end. Don't you folks watch the movies?"

ROTFLMAO :)

How frikkin'n true. There are more Liberals at the Treck conventions and comic book fairs than graduating engineering class ;-)

Liberals should stay in the political sandbox at their CUPE cubicle complexes and leave the building and inventing to real people.

Iberia elitist answer to anyone who criticizes the gov't is - So, leave and go elsewhere.

Iberia rejects the very essence of a democratic state, which is the right to critique, question, reject - and then work to make a gov't do better. In Iberia's world, aka Animal Farm, none of this is permitted. Like it - or Leave it.

As for quantum liberal, he's a postmodernist kid, who thinks that 'quantum' mechanics replaces 'classical mechanics'. No, it doesn't, ql, the two realms actually work together. And your ignorance of science has been pointed out extremely well. Milk, equally, doesn't come in cartons; it comes from cows.

And the MSM IS biased; most of its news editors and staff are left - Liberal and NDP. That's a statistical, researched FACT, not an ignorant opinion. Fact.

The Calgary Herald story on Stelmach is buried on page A6. There isn't even a blurb in the Post, save on yesterday's editorial page. The item should be front page news! Frankly, the Liberal Party is now on record as supporting intrusion into provincial juridiction, wrapped up in the self righteous blather of "saving the environment". Hypocrites! The power base in Ontario and Quebec(Quon)is out to subjugate the western provinces on two fronts - save the environment and keep Quebec in Canada. The whole purpose is to stop the westward movement of political and economic power and keep it in central Canada. The wrting is on the wall for westerners - we will sacrifice your livlihoods to the greater gods of centralized planning under Kyoto and national unity, because the Mom mentality says we know what is best for you. They will send you a bill after they rape your financial future and charge 17% "commission" a la Gomery. The eatern Mafia will enforce "consequences" should you even consider that you have anything to say about it. It is time for provincews outside the Montreal - Toronto - Ottwaw triangle, to throw off the yolk of central domination and dismember this dysfunctional piece of trash called Canada, more like Soviet Canuckistan. Mr Harper also plans to shaft oil & gas producing provinces across this country, to buy Quebec's vote to the tune of 1.5 billion, so that they can wallow in their socilaist dream world. That is your money he intends to buy that vote with, he is no better than the Truedaupians who started this "Just society". Screw-em! Vote for separation.

Liberals and especially dion and holland are perfect examples of that old saying
There are non so blind as those that will not see.
As for Stelmachs quiet response, he will have to smarten up. Ted will make his voice heard in caucus, and Eddie boy knows he needs the south to win an election. The south supported Ted, and velected an Alliance MLA in the last election, and will again. Alberta has been the kicking boy of Ottawa for years. We would not cowtow to them and for 35 years had a SC govt and sent SCs to Ottawa and did our own thing. We have now had 35 years of Conservative govt, and when we feel they are not paying attention we will kick them out, to be replaced by something else. It will never be liberal or ndp so that leaves the Alliance, or an Alberta first party. We are a stubborn people out here, and will not be dictated to by the likes of holland or dion.

please do not feed the troll lberia. no I(aye) , its a a small L. its lberia and he names himself after a stalin henchman.

Holland recently challenged Dave Rutherford (770 CHQR) in an interview to name one credible climatologist that does not believe in global warming. How about this guy:

Timothy Ball, Ph.D in his own words [2007.02.05]:

"Global Warming, as we think we know it, doesn't exist. And I am not the only one trying to make people open up their eyes and see the truth. But few listen, despite the fact that I was the first Canadian Ph.D. in Climatology and I have an extensive background in climatology, especially the reconstruction of past climates and the impact of climate change on human history and the human condition. Few listen, even though I have a Ph.D, (Doctor of Science) from the University of London, England and was a climatology professor at the University of Winnipeg. For some reason (actually for many), the World is not listening. Here is why."

Read the rest here:
http://www.canadafreepress.com/2007/global-warming020507.htm

ET writes:

"Iberia rejects the very essence of a democratic state, which is the right to critique, question, reject - and then work to make a gov't do better."

Not at all. I just have a problem with people who, when the don't like the outcome of democratic decisions, threaten separation.

which democratic decision would that be?

to have some Ontario liberal hack come out and threaten Alberta. which part of the elected process was that?

you must just reel from the pronouncements of psuedoliberal Charest and the requests of the Parti Quebecsquawk.

Right Iberia. Alberta should just respect the democratic process; like a clear question on a separation referendum, for instance?

Iberia and their ilk share two things in common; they expect us to accept their superficial arguments, and they don't think past the conclusion they were already searching for.

Quite pathetic, really. Maybe Iberia should get the hell out.

I have just had a hoot at how poor old Quantum got bitch-slapped by a few guys in the know. Haven't you learned yet Quantum that you better be backed up with solid facts if you think you can take on the blogosphere? You go guys I am having a good laugh ,nothing like intelligence to take care of stupidity.

"which democratic decision would that be?"

The one in the poll booth comes to mind. Why is it that right wingers always go on about "freedom and democracy", but when they are in the minority and are not getting their way they sulk and complain: "it's a conspiracy; everyone else is an idiot, etc." Time to be consistant.

I thought that Holland's remarks were fairly innocuous. It's only the unelected right wingers who seem to be suffering some sort of collective paranoia. If the comments were so out of line, why aren't the Conservatives making a big deal of it?

And Quebec whining does not impress me. But like climate change these days, or gay marriage two years ago, Quebec seperatism is a useful distraction for the government to use on the public. It'a the "Look at Chewbacca" strategy.

Iberia has no choice but to refuse to acknowledge the possibility of Dion breaking up the country. Otherwise, he would see the disastrous comments by Holland for what they are - a power and money grab by usurping provincial juristiction.

Iberia, people can vote the way they want in an election, that is their right. It is also their right to vote in a separation referendum. They are part of the same ideal, whether you like it or not, or even consider it a possibility. It is a possibility. Many Albertans have had it with this Que/Ont bias, where they support standards of living (govt programs such as Universal Day Care) in other parts of the country. This is not the 70s anymore. To pretend there won't be consequences is really dumb, naive and dangerous.

On the other hand it is an academic question because the Canadian electorate, whatever province they live in, will not as a group elect Dion. Why? Because he is an utter incompetent who call facts "spin."

Bring on the election; it can't happen soon enough for me.

Take a deep breath and relax, Shamrock. Holland gave nothing more than his opinion. Moreover, nothing was said about nationalization, or anything more concrete than he feels that expanding oilsands production will conflict with pollution control commitments.

(From the interview)

H: Well that would mean, in my opinion, we need to stabilize the oil sands, we need, we don't need to be multiplying them times five.

A: You mean taking less stuff out of the sands is what you're saying?

H: Exactly, using it responsibly, over a protracted period of time, making sure that we can actually meet our international commitments to reduce greenhouse gas emissions.

Ooooh, scarey. Quick, we gotta separate. Jeesh.

Iberia is and forever will be an idiot. The village idiot.

Iberia's favorite food and beverage? Why, popcorn and beer, of course.

Iberia wants to be the country where Smaul Fartin' registers the families ships, the Lie-beral ships.

Thanks for the laugh, Bruce. I've heard better insults from a six year old. Perhaps you could explain why you disagree with me the next time you feel like an adult.

Six year olds insult you to? Not suprising.

That's it. Wait till your father gets home...

Iberia, enough of your sins of omission. You are ignoring the Rutherford interview. Get with it!

ET said:
"And the MSM IS biased; most of its news editors and staff are left - Liberal and NDP"

I agree. It is no longer that the MSM gives the appearance of supporting the Liberals. They have now become the mouthpiece of the Liberal and their leftist allies. The term "fair and balanced" no longer applies to them. The worst offender is of course the CBC, who are doing this courtesy of our taxpayer dollars. The Toronto (Red) Star are not far behind.

The thing that bothers me the most is not just their criticism of the Conservative government, as some of it is deserved, but their willingness to overlook the faults of the Liberals at every opportunity. The Liberal party according to them can never do anything wrong. Wherever the Liberal party fails or breaks a promise, they always gloss over it or find some way to pin it on the Conservatives. It is this hypocrisy that I find the most revolting.