Hell, I'd a tossed 'em so hard they'd bounce...

Invite the Imams to try that stunt on El-Al airlines. That could be their big chance to get away from it all.

Look - the Islamic community has itself set up this situation. No-one else has defined the Islamic community as mass murderers; they have taken on that role, for themselves, by themselves.

The Islamic leadership, both political and religious, has allowed and encouraged its people to become mass murderers, in the name of their religion. It has not lifted a finger to inhibit, to chastize, to disallow this behaviour. Instead, it consistently praises suicide attacks, jihadist attacks; insistently defames the west and the USA, shows on its media (gov't controlled) images of murder, images of praise for these murders.

Therefore, they are the ones who defined the 'stereotypical profiling' of themselves. The should expect us to react to their definition of themselves.

The air security staff acted correctly in this incident. The congresswoman who called for legislation to prevent racial profiling is a politically correct idiot, and a danger to airline safety.

The spokesman for the Imamas certainly knows all the words and phrases that set off the media, and creates pangs of guilt in the gullible liberals of this world.

Their highly suspicious behaviour should see all six banned from air travel in the U.S. There's always Amtrak or Greyhound.

The U.S. in in a war with radical Islam, and any measures they use for the safety of citizens should be applauded by the MSM, not derided.

The justice system should refuse to allow the inevitable lawsuits to be heard in court, and if the liberal left get upset, tough.

The U.S. government is constantly referred to as "Fascist", it's time for them to live up to that name.

Try getting on a train in New York city in 1944 and shouting "Seig Heil" while carrying a copy of Mein Kampf and see how long you would last.

As a practicing Infidel, I would never put myself in a situation where a Muslim had a modicum of control over my well-being. We are at war with Islam. They declared it. End of story.

I have to commend the pilot and the flight crew for doing a excellent job. Sure makes me feel a whole heck of a lot better about flying, knowing the professionals I trust my life too, will not be intimidated into taking careless risks for the sake of not hurting someone feelings.

I am constantly amazed at the patience of American air travelers with this sort of stuff. I’d expect Canadians to fly and die rather than actually confront a potential risk, but I expect American passengers to get in the Jihadi’s faces once they start acting up.

They should be invited back to fly to Phoenix, escorted by the offensive and defensive linemen from the Arizona State Sun Devils Football Team.

If they want to travel with Infidels, let them travel with 300 pound Team Satan members.

Quite right dmorris. These teachers from the religion of mass murder provoked by lust, certainly know the Liberal agenda targetting Muslim profiling, and this incident is nothing more than a ploy.

In the meantime, US Airways has gained the advantage of being the safest airline due to the ensuing Muslim boycott. They are recieving great support and apparently sales haven't been better.

There's obviously a business opportunity in that. Imagine 'Muslim free' travel. All a transportation business needs to do is cause Muslim outrage, which isn't too difficult, and wait for the calls to boycott from the various mouth piece organisations, like CAIR, etc.

My opinion of US Airways just doubled.

I hear the sound of little violins over aircraft PA systems all over North America. The tolerance for extremism and resistance to integration within the muslim community is making non-muslims more and more unsympathetic to any complaining coming from that community.

Say, didn't Minnesota elect a muslim congressman with links to extremist groups?

They made all of the right moves to bring attention to themselves, their seating assignments, the unnecessary belt extenders, I bet it was a set up. We've seen this poor little misunderstood Muslim airline passenger act before, pushing the envelope, then, crying foul play.

Think about it, if you are publicly identifiable members of the global Murder & Mayhem tribe, you need to make careful choices in selecting your public demeanor. These clowns were having fun at our expense.

The MSM is the Islamofascist's best friend here. Their next best friends are the Dems, whose playbook of victimology scams, pc and multi-culti permissions, and just general stupidity when confronted with evil makes duplicity so easy for these creeps.

irwin - along your lines, I'd love an audit of just what each resident or visiting Muslim is costing us as taxpayers since 9/11 for all of the security that we've had to put into place. Just divide the billions with the number of Muslims here. It's huge. A good reason alone to never admit any more Muslim tourists, students, or immigrants.

I have to agree with Penny. I think it may have been staged.

Let the bedsheet-psyco's try hitch hiking to their next "death to ______ rally".
Ban them for life, this was waaaay to similar to a trial run.
No way are these bearded fascists this naive.

Penny,

I have read statistics from Sweden on the welfare cost of Muslim immigration, it's hard to believe they are still allowing them in, if not deporting the bastards. The Muslims must view it as a form of infidel tax, or jizya, I suppose.

But, yes, if there was a study done and made available to the public on the monetary and emotional cost of Muslim immigration vis a vis security since 9/11 - I'm sure we'd be on the path to ending it. Rather, and unbelievably, what the Canadian government has done since 9/11, is double the number of Muslims in Canada.

Because of this, CSIS has declared that not only can it not guarantee public safety - but that it's inundated and cannot do it's job.

So the billions the citizen taxpayer already pays towards security is even a waste, not to mention an unnecessary hassle.

Madness.

That fellow wearing the Captains stripes, up there in the left seat, has the final say. I'm waiting for the day when one of our PC pols prances up to the flight deck and tells that person he is going to fly, regardless...

Believe me, those of us rednecks in the general population are going to start pushing back real hard, soon. Our dollar and our feet will speak loudly.

I had to spend a week on the perimeter of Dearbornistan recently. You get the definite feeling that the rest of the Detroit area, regardless of what Representative Conyers desires, has had it's fill with Islam.

Lucky for us it didn't happen in Canada. Taliban Jack would be calling for an inquiry, all sorts of special interest demonstrations going on, claims of discrimination... aka known in Canada as "the usual"

Maybe Muslims could boycott the airline to see it's share value rise,

Before 911 james woods saw them do a test run, I'm guessing that's what this was.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Allah is on a roll! The Buddhist man under this sheet is just one of 666 innocents murdered in the name of Islam last week.

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

We should ban immigration of Muslims into Canada and deport all Muslims that are not citizens.

Citizenship should be revoked for foriegn born Muslims that are connected in any way to extremists.

Saw a vid of their litte "pray in" at Washington National. Lots of photogs, and nobody had the cojones to walk through the kow-towing group with an airy "you're blocking the road, jerk". Possibly wiping their muddy feet on his rug.

Hey - one can dream, eh?

It does sound like a setup for sure. They should be charged with the costs associated with delaying the flight.

If not well as the boy who cried wolf found out, so shall the muzzies.

I was walking past a mosque on the south side of Edmonton when two muslim gentlemen exited. I nodded and the responce I received was chilling. Both of them looked at me like they'd enjoy nothing more than to kill me right then and there.

The whole incident seems contrived, either
a) To setup some kind of lawsuit, or to promote faux outrage.

b) To probe North American airlines to see how far overtly suspicious muslims can go without being stopped, to potentially enable future hijackers.

I agree the event had to be staged and for these gentlemen (using the term loosely) they had to know some specifics of what happened on 9/11 to follow those patterns. I agree we should stop all muslim immigration to canada and everything that Warwick said.
but sometimes we get distracted by the diversions and in this case the muslims are just the diversion.(they are just following their nature, In fact they tend to agree with conservatve people on other hotbed issues) The real enemies are those that make it possible for the muslim extremists to perpetrate these terrible acts. And to find them you have no farther to look than the friends and neighbours, we have, that Vote NDP or liberal. Very sad. Our having to worry about muslim extremists is the symptom our country experiences from the infectious disease of the left. Funny the people whom these muslims hate the most, allow muslim extremists to do the most.

"The U.S. government is constantly referred to as 'Fascist', it's time for them to live up to that name."

Great line!

Consider it poached.

Adune; it could also be an act of unconventional warfare. It goes with carrying out suspicious surveylence activities, which have been commonplace since 9/11. They are prodding our "guard dogs" to look for weaknesses, wear us down and cause complacency. It's a combination of Tokyo Rose and Lord Haha (spelled wrong I'm sure) of WW2 and the "Peace Movement" during the Cold War along with the Soviet submarines off our coasts. The MM is their best ally.
See mackenzieinstitute.com/recent-writings.htm Precursers of Hostile Intent.

Nothing is ever going to change until the sons of Allah The Camel and Baby Bugger set off a nuclear device in a western city.

And then, where do we attack back? What will Russia and China tolerate?

If it is in Europe, nothing of any consequence will happen, beacuse how do you strike back at over one third of your own population?

If it were to happen in Canada (quite likely because of vicinity to the Great Satan) then we would bend over and ask for more, just like Europe.

If it were to happen in the U.S. then results will happen:

*Mass 'sploding of Suicide Camel Buggers in the U.S.

*Mass deportation or interment of all the Cult of Goat Buggers as a result.

*Tehran will turn into a glass parking lot.

*China and Russia will have to join in the Final Crusade, or be prepared to absorb some nukes on their soil.

And the nicest thing about this worst case (and likely) scenario, aside from the final and necessary elimination of Islam?

Leftism will finally die along with its sick twisted twin.

But like I said, until we see a mushroom cloud, nothing is ever going to change AT ALL folks.

This was an act of terrorism by the 6 imams, pure and simple. It was obviously designed to cause fear (terror) in the minds of all who witnessed it. No differnet than trying to take a real looking toy gun on a commercial aircarft.

Elation should not overshadow the reality of the situation. They should be charged and convicted.

Doug, I think you are right that the complacency and denial that infects a large segment of our population and almost all of the appeasing, apologist MSM isn't going to change until the Islamofascists deliver, as they keep promising, the next Big Atrocity. We will wake up some morning to images that will make 9/11 seem very small and incidental.

It's going to take death and destruction in very large numbers before the west comes out of its collective coma of denial.

I can't even formulate in my mind at this point what our response would be.

"Funny the people whom these muslims hate the most, allow muslim extremists to do the most."
Jared, Lenin had a name for them...useful idiots.
Doug...you are right on except you forgot one step. After Ottawa is turned into glass parking lot for more mosques, the U.S. will rightfully take over this sorry excuse for a country. And just think of the fun free-for-all hunting down the yellow spined lefties. BB guns would probably be most effective.
The Imams are lucky they weren't mobbed and stomped into camel shit. Betcha next time they try this stunt, they won't be so lucky.

Let's see. If the Irish Catholics had been blowing up airplanes by being suicide bombers, and they got on an airplane denigrating their enemy (who happened to be on the airplane), in a rich Irish brogue, and then a Cathilic priest came along and gave them their last rights communion, I certainly wouldn't get on that plane! If it wasn't so pathetic/sinister in its entirety, it would be humorous!

"I can't even formulate in my mind at this point what our response would be."

Penny:

If it is part of a US city that gets vaporized, before January, 2008, then there will be a few less Islamic cities on the map shortly afterward.

After January, 2008: well, it will depend on who is in office. If it is a conservative, then there will be a few less Islamic cities on the map shortly afterward.

OTOH, if it is a liberal in office, we will immediately convene a panel to discuss why we deserved it, who we can appologize to, since we MUST have offended someone, and ask them to please not hit us again. We will then ask the UN, or mommie, for some milk and cookies.

Say, didn't Minnesota elect a muslim congressman with links to extremist groups?

Yep, and he's insisting that he be sworn in using a Koran, rather than the Bible.

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/DennisPrager/2006/11/28/america,_not_keith_ellison,_decides_what_book_a_congressman_takes_his_oath_on

Yoop, shouldn't that be January 2009?

"Yoop, shouldn't that be January 2009?"

Ah-h-h-h, SVJ, you'd be correct. My bad.

They made all of the right moves to bring attention to themselves, their seating assignments, the unnecessary belt extenders, I bet it was a set up. We've seen this poor little misunderstood Muslim airline passenger act before, pushing the envelope, then, crying foul play.

Penny, I had the exact same thought. These guys were looking to get thrown off the plane.

Not sure if Islam could survive the nuclear destruction of Mecca. The haj is one of the five pillars of their 'faith' and all of their mosques are oriented towards it.

The thought has been put forward many times before, yet it still bears water if you think it's strange that North America hasn't been hit again.

Unfortunately, it will take an attack here in order to crush the multi-culti, moral equivalence, PC, blame western civilization crowd. The dogs will be let loose, regardless of what the government says or does.

I'd hate to be a Muslim in North America if that happens.

Jared,

the Quran is not moderate and neither was Mohammad's life example. Both are violently supremist and political. Therefore in Islam there are only extremists, potential extremists and apostates. Otherwise, why is it that whenever a Muslim speaks out against Islamic violence, he/she is intimidated, hushed, threatened with death and retitled an apostate? This just happened again with a muslim speaking out against violence in Tulsa - he's been hushed and threatened with violence. (LGF)

It seems that at least some of the press are waking up in England - the London Telegraph has recently published an article stating that "we are in a war to the death." (infidel bloggers - iblog.blogspot.com)

What were the extended seat belts for. Deluge Monte Solbergs office with letters to ban all muslim immigration, then go for deporting all those that are here who have relatives in any country that has blown themselves up, then freeze all their assets and stop the transfer of any money to any muslim country, or by any muslim. Banks should be made to report any such transfers and name from who to who. Cities must not allow any more mosques to be built in Canada. Remember, insult a muslim, say Merry Christmas and send piggy banks to all mosques for Christmas. They have outlived their welcome in Canada, and if any political party would put this in their re-election platform they would win a huge majority everywhere but TO, Van, and Montreal. Taliban jack would be wiped out. Notice the greens sure cut into their vote, yesterday in London. But, in a by-election one uses a protest vote. How many know there is only one Green Party, with organizations in other countries. Policies are developed in Europe by their board.

It definitely had to be staged for some reason or another. They did everything but stand up and yell "LOOK AT ME--I'M A TERRORIST!!!"

Interesting... just about a week ago, I almost did a post on this very matter, with the same info. But I decided against it, as I'm starting to think that folks are becoming blase to the Islamists pulling such stunts and would probably see it as no more special than all the other stunts they pull, like the "Mushroom cloud is on its way" "demonstrations" in the cities of America.

BTW, my memory tells me that one of the six Imams has been linked somehow to bin Laden himself, though I can't remember where I read that, but it was in a reliable source, though.

Seems that lots of these Islamists we read about in the news are linked somehow to jihadists or jihadist organizations... like a certain Keith Ellison, just elected as a Democrat and the very first Muslim, to Congress. He is linked to both the Nation of Islam and to the CAIR, which we know to be a front for Hamas and which is a supporter of terrorism. Nevertheless, the MSM gave him a free pass, thus paving the way to his election.

It's the truth. I've blogged about it. As have many others.

Isn't it interesting that Keith Ellison got a free pass from the MSM despite his clear ties, past and present, to Islamic fundamentalist/extremist elements... but devout Christians and Jews who run for office are incessantly bombarded and mistreated by the MSM in comparison?

“Three of the men had one-way tickets and no checked baggage......
The idea that a Muslim boycott against US Airways would hurt the airline proves that Arabs are utterly tone-deaf... How can we hope to deal with people with no sense of irony?"

http://www.anncoulter.com/cgi-local/welcome.cgi

Him, "for some reason or another"? Of course it was staged. This works beautifully for them. They enjoy making fun of, and at the same time abusing,our freedoms, and gain the MSNM's spin and sympathy. The more this goes on, the more indifferent some people become to security, while the rest scream for more tolerance, understanding and appeasement. Meanwhile, they chuckle at how easily the western world is manipulated by their own ideals.

Unfortunately this seems to be a case of the price to be paid for the personal rights and freedoms that we enjoy. What I find ironic is that those whose personal freedoms are so restricted by religious dogmatism and fanaticism seem to be well on their way to becoming the greatest users/abusers of the West's largesse in this area.

I wonder if this could be equated with falsely crying "FIRE" in a crowded theatre?

The Muslims are playing games with our way of life. It's the mission they're on to create havoc anywhere they can.
The Pilot and crew were right to take no chances with anyone acting in a suspicious manner for the safety of their passengers.
Fact is, we do not trust them and we should not trust them.
Fact is, it's their own fault.
Fact is, many of them enjoy terrorizing "Infidels".
We must keep up our guard at all times, that's the sad reality.
Many of the Muslims who live here in this country, are, and intend to remain foreign to our world and way of life. That's the "benefit" of Pierre Trudeau's Multicultural concoction which enables this divisive ruination of a cohesive society.

I wonder if this could be equated with falsely crying "FIRE" in a crowded theatre?

--I hereby make precisely that equation. Same, also, as yelling, "bomb" on an airplane. Too bad they didn't do that, though... guess one has to be more specific than "Allah, Allah, Allah" and all the other nonsense they performed to try to make the innocent passengers go all poopypants...

People - you can discuss this incident without getting ugly about Muslims in general. One of the sources for Muslim immigration are those attempting to escape the extremists sinking their claws into Europe.

Sorry Kate, I didn't mean to steal your thunder. Just realized the heading of the topic. Great minds and all . . . :-)

Here's hoping they keep it up. I'm all for disruptive and in-your-face Islamodramas 24/7 in every airport, mall, metro station, public park, Walmart, Disneyland, and intersection in the country. The bastards have been too sneaky for too long. Flush them out of the wookwork, encourage their performances, their perpetual rage eruptions and "Allah" outbursts, get them front and center in all of our faces.

Then, we can dismantle the MSM myth that Islam is spiritually serene, kind, gentle and harmless. If these are imams doing this at the airport, how stable are their congregations?

I'm calling for a letter of support campaign to the airport imams, egging on these freaks to keep repeating their stunt. Deploying Comedy Central, Howard Stern, You Tube, Mohammed cartoon vanity plates, the irreverant jokes of our own teenagers might be our best civilian contribution in the WOT.

With that said, I'm flying north for Christmas, here's to an imam at every gate.

Kate,
You are being overly optimistic. Maybe you should re-read America Alone and The Force of Reason.

Muslims emmigrate ONLY to spread the disease of Islam. It is not a religion, it's a cult.

I agree that we may be unfair to generalize, BUT, it is important to look at how important perceptions and values are. I'm sure that there are many muslims that value free speach, egual rights, and many other of our values. Unfortunately, it apears to me, that for many, this is perceived as a weakness, and they value things like control and force as a strength. Even our regard for human life is looked apon by many as a weakness. Saddam understood this very well, and was able to stablize a country that had the potential for civil war, as we are witnessing now. Most of us are probably at the stage where we need some encouragement or sign from the majority of muslims, showing that they truly wish to live in peace.

I wasn't requesting.

Like it or not, your comments here are often attributed to "small dead animals", and a lot of people are only to eager to attribute them to _me personally_. That includes some in MSM.

(Oddly enough, the equally nasty stuff that I allow to stand from the lefties that cruise through isn't, but you know - whatever serves one's broader purposes.)

So, keep that in mind when you post here. If you want to push the envelope of "free speech", start your own blog. And sign your real name.

I don't know, Kate, your point is well taken, but, Islam has passed a point, with milestones they've missed, in protecting themselves from generalizations. Muslims have allowed the natural progression of this generalization, as in Hitler and a handful of followers, the emerging Nazi Party, a majority of Nazis, and eventually "the Nazis". Muslims, as victims of our perceptions, can't have it both ways at this point.

Muslims have it coming. How many of these "imans" speak out against terror and killing.
Those that dare are soon cast out.

If they don't like the way they are being treated in America.......LEAVE!!!

I'd like to make a recommendation particularly directed at men.

My suggestion is if a similar incident occurs for half a dozen American and Canadian men move up to their location and quietly stand behind them while they say their prayers.

Men with military experience or who have played full-contact sports or who grew up in a rough neighborhood would be good for this. No one has to threaten anybody, and everyone can be polite.

Just stand behind them and watch them. That's what I would have done.

Act suspicious and you will be treated as such. doesn't matter if they are Muslim or not but considering 9/11 and the world today it is not unreasonable to suspect a person of middle east persuasion a bit more than Auntie Emm from Bugtussle, Kansas.

Kind of like being of oriental descent and going all over town taking pictures of major structures in the 1940's. Even if you were only an architecture major, it would be rather foolish to not expect to be stopped and checked out.

While not all Muslims are terrorists, all the terrorists on 9/11 were Muslim. You don't have to live in Vegas to know what the odds what the next terrorist will likely be.

Greg in Dallas,

I'm with you on the idea of "quiet detente". A quiet but obvious watchful infidel presence would less rude then loud islamic public demonstrations in sensitive areas. There's more than enough discomfort over the Minneapolis Imam's actions to be shared by non-muslim and muslim alike.

It is just one stunt in a line of very cunning stunts (be very careful with that phrase!) in the cultural jihad, but perhaps too cunning by half. The jig's nearly up I'd say: the attempted victim narrative "Flying While Muslim" won't fly. THUD.

would those seatbelt extenders fit snuggly on their necks? perhaps too large then.

all of us could fly more secure knowing they are boycotting an airline. could they make a website showing who they boycotting at which time.

Sounds more like this was a scripted drill, to test security response, particularly to test behavior/pattern recognition. The airline may have well been in on it.

The actions as described are basic intelligence activity, "probing" or "spoofing" to see how far they can go. This is a tactic to press the airlines to back off on security, and embarrass them if they do not in order to gain additional flexibility so that the next effort at a 9/11 will have a greater degree of success. The only valid action when pressed like this is to push back, otherwise the baseline for acceptible actions gets moved in the favour of the terrorist. I am glad to see that the airline did that, but disappointed (although not surprised) that the MSM has been unable to see past their "rights and freedoms" blinders.

As Ann Coulter pointed out, if we could just get muslims to boycott all air travel, out security costs would plummet.

Wow, so much froth. I particularly enjoyed the suggestions to ban all Muslim immigration, and deport those Muslims already in Canada. Now, wouldn't such a gesture--an insult to the worldwide Muslim community--be entirely counterproductive, serving only to make Canada even more of a target for the relatively small but genuinely dangerous network of fanatical terrorists? And what happened, by the way, to freedom of religion, which I had assumed many here would have cherished far more deeply than their comments now indicate? The obvious counterargument--that Islam "is not a religion, it's a cult"--would require a Constitutional amendment declaring that Islam is no longer a recognized religion in the eyes of the Charter, and would be about as popular (and as dangerous for Canadian security) as the deportation idea.

BTW, kudos to Kate for demanding that the blatantly anti-Muslim rhetoric be toned down.

BTW, kudos to Kate for demanding that the blatantly anti-Muslim rhetoric be toned down.

--If only the left would tone down its anti-Christian, anti-Semitic, anti-Israel, anti-America rhetoric... but that's not going to happen, I'm afraid... leftists are obviously basically fine with the extremist rhetoric their own folks spew all the time.

Canadian Sentinel: ...leftists are obviously basically fine with the extremist rhetoric their own folks spew all the time.

Not true. In my book, extremist rhetoric, along with intolerant generalizations, are equally deplorable on either side of the political spectrum. And are you saying that if the 'left' wades down into the gutter, then you're therefore justified in stooping to their level as well? How about the high road?

A: "And what happened, by the way, to freedom of religion...?"

I have a wider question than that, A, such as what happened to FREEDOM? Careful who you ask though, they may be muzzies that take extreme offense to the concept.

You'd almost have to think a war is going on...

A - "freedom of religion" is a great concept until you have to include a religion that is intolerant, violent, bent on destroying your religion and couldn't give a damn about secular niceties. The Founding Fathers weren't dealing with Islamofascism. Our Constitution isn't a suicide pact.

Because insults beget homicidal responses from Islamofascists, must we surrendered our cherished freedom of speech? The MSM did. I won't. In your universe we should muzzle ourselves and protect a religion, which in its own words and by empirical evidence, is bent on our destruction.

Trust me, the outcome of a public referendum in the US or Canada on further Muslim immigration would not have the outcome you expect. Immigration is a privilege not a right. If a religion/culture deviates from what is good for a secular democracy, Islam fits that description, why would any sane country be compelled to accept immigrants that are problematic?

Martin B: Didn't Kate just admonish commenters for making baseless generalizations about Muslims? And here you go again...

what happened to FREEDOM? Careful who you ask though, they may be muzzies that take extreme offense to the concept.

Now, Martin B., I know you're not claiming that all, or even most, or even merely a sizeable minority, of Muslims are somehow offended by the concept of freedom. Because if that were true, then clearly you must demand that, say, the Canadian military be brought home immediately from Afghanistan, since average Afghanis, being mostly Muslim, would be innately and irredeemably opposed to freedom, the ostensible rationale for the military presence in the first place. Since they inherently abhor freedom, I suppose there's no reason for us to be there.

Question: how many people do you actually know, in your personal day-to-day life, who are Muslim? And how many of them have actually said to you that they hate your (and my, and their) freedom? And what do you mean precisely when you claim that Muslims "oppose freedom." I mean, really, it's kind of a ridiculous statement to make, if you follow your own logic through.

And are you saying that if the 'left' wades down into the gutter, then you're therefore justified in stooping to their level as well?

--If you think you can intimidate people from speaking the truth about the left by saying we're "stooping to their level", then forget it. I am wise to this tactic. I will not stop. Yes, the left is fine with the extremism and hatred coming from their own ilk, else they'd put a stop to it all... expel the extremists, don't socialize with them at all anymore. Speak out against any hateful utterances by leftists. I'm not holding my breath. The so-called "moderate" leftists, or "liberals" are perfectly fine with it all, they even encourage it and this is going to continue. Trying to deny it will only make a fool of oneself.

Good night.

I am frightened by the crowd
For we are getting much too loud
And they'll crush us if we go too far

keep on blogging. freedom is but a keystoke away.

Jan said . . .
this can be seen as similar to calling fire in a theater.

David Brown said . . .

This was an act of terrorism by the 6 imams, pure and simple. It was obviously designed to cause fear (terror) in the minds of all who witnessed it. No differnet than trying to take a real looking toy gun on a commercial aircarft.

Elation should not overshadow the reality of the situation. They should be charged and convicted.
Posted by: David Brown at November 28, 2006 02:17 PM

These thoughts have merit and combining them we have a court case where;

The six non- obese perps are questioned seperately as to why they demanded the belt extensions.

They should be asked about the other provocative behaviours and if the answers are not perfectly logical and uniform, they should be charged with the equivalent of yelling * FIRE* in a crowded theatre. = TG

Let me relate an incident I had at work about a year ago.
I work with an Iraqi christian who was complaining about the difficulty immigrants have establishing themselves here. His 'rant' was over-heard by another worker, of Pakistani extraction, who, thinking he was a fellow muslim said something to the effect 'this country belongs to you as much as any other. Besides, the koran proscribes that we go into the lands of these people'.
Now, I wasn't present when this exchange occurred but was told this by my Iraqi colleague. He was equally shocked, yet unsurprised. His own views on islam were very enlightening - he characterized it as not a true religion, more of a cult whose only real relation any religion, as such, was its monotheism. It deals less with the metaphysical and more with regressive tribal codes. As my Iraqi friend said, 'you won't find anything about loving your neighbour or forgiveness or free will in the koran'.
That to me about summed it up but also may point out our weakness in the west, to the extent that we have "evolved" to this post-Christian state in the west.

Well, A, here's an in your face and not dismissible piece of Muslim attitudes and reality straight from Britain, no reason to think it would be different here in another secular democracy:

The Populus survey for The Times and ITV News has found that more than one in ten thinks that the men who carried out the London bombings of 7/7 should be regarded as “martyrs”. Sixteen per cent of British Muslims, equivalent to more than 150,000 adults, believe that while the attacks were wrong, the cause was right.

timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,22989-2254764,00.html

Even more disheartening is this Pew poll of Muslim attitudes in various countries:

pewglobal.org/reports/display.php?ReportID=253

Maybe you want to sort these attitudes at the immigration counter, but, on behalf of my children, I prefer to not risk space on any of them.

Spare us your superficial encounters with a handful of Muslims in superficial settings as reality.

A said:Question: how many people do you actually know, in your personal day-to-day life, who are Muslim? And how many of them have actually said to you that they hate your (and my, and their) freedom?

My Iraqi friend also educated me about the concept of "taqiyya" which is a koranic directive that in dealings with infidels it is acceptable to lie if it conceals your true aims. Given the immutable nature of the koran, as viewed by muslims, how do you square this concept with your statement?

"How can we hope to deal with people with no sense of irony?" (Posted by Cal, I think this quote is by Ann Coulter.)

Irony, indeed, and those who have no sense of it: CBC, anyone?

Last night on the CBC radio news, re the Pope's visit to Turkey:

1) CBC: Oh my gosh, the Pope's really done it by upsetting the Muslims by suggesting that they might be less than peaceful.

Then CBC, straight faced, quotes a Muslim saying that the Pope should be praying that a crazy man with a gun doesn't shoot him.

End of CBC coverage about this.

2) CBC reports (sic) that, even though there's no corroboration from the RC Church, there's a rumour that the Pope might try to (paraphrased) reclaim Hagia Sophia by praying there--or something.

Instead of using the words "totally unfounded hogwash" or "utter lunacy", the CBC described such bigoted tripe as "delicate".

Bloody CBC.

Wake up, (L)liberal idiots! What will it take to open their unseeing eyes?

Kyrie eleison.

(P.S. Go, Ted!)

I can't believe that we are still allowing these fruitcakes into our countries. They should all be rounded up and deported.

Penny: Trust me, the outcome of a public referendum in the US or Canada on further Muslim immigration would not have the outcome you expect.

If indeed your claim has any merit, and if an election platform based on banning all Muslim immigration were to result so decisively in a majority victory, why do you suppose that no party has yet to adopt such a sure-fire strategy? Why, indeed, do you suppose that even PM Harper, so desperate to turn his minority government into a majority, is nevertheless adamant about reaching out to Muslim communities, and stating again and again that the threat is terrorism and not Islam per se?

I sugges you conduct an informal poll. Print out your comments from this thread, show them to, say, your priest, or your children's teachers, see what their reactions are like.

To paraphrase Al Bundy, "Waiter! Six Imams - Nuke 'em"

Penny: Let me preface all of the following by saying that I think polls are virtually useless. But since you like citing them, I'll respond accordingly.

Well, A, here's an in your face and not dismissible piece of Muslim attitudes and reality straight from Britain, no reason to think it would be different here in another secular democracy

Except that the UK is in Iraq, and has generally been far more involved in the "war on terror" than Canada has been. So maybe the poll results aren't directly transferrable. Here's a more recent Canadian one: http://www.newswire.ca/en/releases/archive/November2006/14/c3999.html

But nevermind...

As for the Populus survey, in the paragraph immediately following the one you quote, the Times article states, "But the poll also revealed a stark gulf between this group and the majority of British Muslims, who want the Government to take tougher measures against extremists within their community." Odd that you left that bit out.

Also, keep in mind that if 13% of British Muslims believe that the bombers are 'martyrs', then it also means that 87% of British Muslims believe they are not. Likewise, if 16% believe the cause was right, then 84% believe the cause was wrong. As for Pew, 77% of British Muslims express concern about the rise of Islamic extremism in the world, compared to 23% who do not. So, it's still the case that the vast majority of British Muslims condemned the attack, and condemn Islamic terrorism generally.

Now, nobody is saying that 13% or 16% or 23% are insignificant. Everyone agrees that everyone needs to do more, Muslims and non-Muslims alike. But what we need is perspective and vigilence, not histrionics and moral panic. Attitudes like yours, which serve only to alienate moderates without actually enhancing public safety, may inadvertantly do more to threaten Canadian security, by pushing away potential allies within the Muslim community while helping to build a (false) reputation that Canada opposes all of Islam and not merely terrorism.

MRV: My Iraqi friend also educated me about the concept of "taqiyya" which is a koranic directive that in dealings with infidels it is acceptable to lie if it conceals your true aims. Given the immutable nature of the koran, as viewed by muslims, how do you square this concept with your statement?

So, your argument is...what? That all Muslims oppose freedom, and those who say they don't are just lying? Such false logic is self-reinforcing (and self-serving) but not necessarily valid.

Anyway, I suppose I could square the concept of taqiyya with my earlier statement in two ways. One, I encourage you to look up the term in, say, Wikipedia. You'll find that most Muslims accept the use of taqiyya only when one's own life is in mortal danger, and not for purposes of subterfuge. Second, I suppose we'd indeed have a serious problem if all Muslims accepted every last word of the Koran in a purely literal fashion. Of course, we'd also have a serious problem if all Christians accepted every last word of the Bible in a purely literal fashion. But most Christians do not, and neither do most Muslims--religious faith generally involves a degree of interpretation. You may wish to portray all (or even most) Muslims as fanatical in their devotion, but that would deny reality. It would be wrong of me to prejudge Christians based solely on my interpretation of the Bible. Likewise, rather than (pre)judging Muslims based on your interpretation of a specific Koranic directive, I suggest you instead observe moderate Muslims in their daily actions, and reach your conclusions from that.

Well, A, a formal poll has more merit than your "how many people do you actually know, in your personal day-to-day life, who are Muslim? And how many of them have actually said to you that they hate your (and my, and their) freedom?" survey or your poll of my priest and neighborhood school. Wouldn't you agree as a twice invoked poll denouncer?

And, you bet "nobody is saying that 13% or 16% or 23% are insignificant". I think "shocking" has been the most invoked adjective on that one.

As for your recommendation for "perspective and vigilence", well, we've got a multi-billion dollar annual security budget going on here with airport security, radiation detectors, sniffer dogs at our metros, Homeland Security payrolls, etc, so we've got vigilance in spades. 9/11 gave us perspective too.

Oh, and, there isn't anything more that I need to do for Muslims as you suggest. I could organize a website so they can send money to stop the genocide of Christians in Darfur or help them organize a big protest against terrorism rally in DC or Detroit, but, Arabic isn't my second language. If they can't put a lid on their crazies using shame or with bullets or contol their imams at airports, then, I'm all out of ideas for them too.

A, you can't read very well...or you're too lazy to try. I'm not surprised.

First person experiences are always the most riviting.

Most interesting there MRV. = TG

OK, The 9:03pm MRV comment that is. = TG

Reminds me of the muslim clerk at the KFC on Davie the other day. She just ignored the guy that had a few drink on his way home from work on a friday, he wasnt drunk and abusive just a little tippsy. The guy ahead of me had to scream at her and call the manager, the manager took the guys order. If it wasnt for the fact that they cant find people to work there Im sure he would have fired her on the spot. Even the liberal fags have had enough of these islamofasists.

I'm in agreement with Penny. "A", a well-known leftwing ideologue around here, while able to articulately sound rational and logical, is nevertheless wrong and delusional. Not to mention illogical.

People who understand, like Penny and myself, are immune to the fascism of political correctness and are able to see and understand the big picture.

Leftists, on the other hand, delusionally want desperately to believe that most Muslims are necessarily good while only a tiny, tiny fraction are dangerous, hateful, intolerant, supremacistic, imperialistic... and jihadists. But leftists close their eyes to all the evidence that pops up everyday that Islam itself is all of those things, and that in the Islamic World, far, far, far too many who are born Muslim are programmed from birth to be haters, supremacists... and to be Shaheeds, killing nonMuslims and taking their own lives... just because the Koran and the clerics/politicians tell them to.

The leftists are handicapped via their ideological blinders... and severely handicapped at that.

Time for the left to exercise willing suspension of disbelief... and provide proof, not argument, that most Muslims are necessarily not as terrible as they're required to be by the Koran.

Finally, it's not ultimately Muslims who are a problem. Oh, no... it's Islam. All one needs to do is read the Koran and realize that the penalty prescribed (and enforced in the Islamic World) for disobedience often includes death. And that truly devout Muslims are required to be precisely as ordered by the Koran. Don't ignore this reality. Understand it. And keep your eyes open at all times, rather than being delusional.

Besides, if the ACLU can go around bashing Christianity and if Islamists can get away with murderously bashing members of all non-Islamic faiths, surely it isn't wrong to point out the absolute truth about Islam and millions upon millions of its devotees (read slaves).

And, Kate, I realize that the MSM might unfairly attribute my comment to you, so I'll add this disclaimer: This is the commentary of the Canadian Sentinel, and the Canadian Sentinel only. Any other attribution constitutes fraud and libel, so attribute very carefully, with legal consequences in mind. Hear that, MSM?

I only want to speak the truth. I don't want to unfairly demonize any group at all. But when a group has a problem, I will not fear being truthful about the precise nature of that problem. Besides, it seems to be politically correct to unfairly demonize Christians and Jews, Americans and Israelis, doesn't it? So why is it so wrong to speak the truth about, say, Islam? I mean, how can we not, with all the daily murders happening worldwide... in the name of Islam?

I would kindly recommend the following daily reading to "A":

http://jihadwatch.org/

didja hear the joke about the jew, the christian and six imams on a plane?

its a friggin joke alright. these muslims are all about inyerface inyerface inyerface.

personally I wuld have waited for a little altitude before ejecting them.

Kate wrote:

"One of the sources for Muslim immigration are those attempting to escape the extremists sinking their claws into Europe."

Kate,

I so do wish that was the case, in it's entirety. But to my eyes it doesn't appear to be like that. Otherwise I would expect to see more effort at assimilation into the *host* country.

For a real eye-opening, first-person encounter with reality, for anyone who really wants to get a feel for what is actually going on, I suggest the following.

Dearborn, Michigan was an urban area of mostly middle class caucasians on the west side of Detroit that originally included a model *company town* set up by Henry Ford. That's where Ford Motor Company is still headquartered.

But, go to the area just north of downtown Dearborn today and walk around, as I did back in September. (I have family that has lived in Dearborn *forever*) Please take careful note of what one sees.

*North* Dearborn has essentially become a middle-eastern country, within the confines of middle-class America. It is the largest concentration of Arabs in North America (and possibly outside of the ME). There is little visible attempt at assimilation into, nor full acceptance of American culture. There is visible distain for many of our common laws.

Nearly half of the businesses, shops and cafes in that area have signs that are in Arabic, with no visible English.

There is a move by the local residents of that particular area to have the street signs changed from English to Arabic.

There is a move by the residents of that particular section of Dearborn to be represented by a special Arabic city council that would act independently from the elected Dearborn city council.

While I was there the recent incursion of the IDF into Lebanon was ongoing. There were demonstrations, signs, placards, and prolific Lebanese flags on cars and street corners, most supporting Hezbolla.

During the aftermath of 9-11 my sister tells me there were small *victory* celebrations in *north* Dearborn. There have been American Flag burnings in *north* Dearborn.

A surprising large number of residents in that area speak no english. The hospitals in the Dearborn area are undergoing a significant cost outlay right now because of the demands/neccessity to hire translators for each shift on each floor/wing/unit of the installation.

I won't even go into the complaints about the increasing tax burden regarding the schools.

These people are vigorously resisting the English language, and are wanting the *system* to be changed over to Arabic, to suit them.

The real rub to most of the other inhabitants of Dearborn, at this time, is that they (and indirectly all the residents of Michigan) get to see their tax dollars support a lot of this nonsense.

I definitely felt like I 'wasn't in Kansas anymore', much less the USA.

I invite anyone who doubts the real intents of a significant number of Muslim and Arab immigrants to America to go spend an afternoon walking around the area north of downtown Dearborn, Michigan.

Yoop: I won't even go into the complaints about the increasing tax burden regarding the school

Presumably, most of the Arabic members of the East Dearborn community also pay taxes. They are, after all, American citizens. In fact, the Arab community has roots in Dearborn dating back over a century, and were employees at the Ford River Rouge plant through much of the 20th C. (ironically, the Ford Company's discriminatory hiring policies against African Americans at the time meant plenty of jobs for new Arab Americans (primarily of Lebanese descent)). Many even lived in the model town you mentioned. Dearborn is also home to the Arab American National Museum, the first of its kind in the US, and the Islamic Center of America, which has been around since the mid-60s. Many of those Arabic-only signs you complain about are advertising doctors' offices, lawyers, and other professional services.

So, they have as much right to be there, and to live in whatever community they wish to construct, as any other American citizen. Converting street signs to Arabic only would probably violate some kind of municipal bylaw; street signs in Arabic and English would be perfectly fine. I also don't see how an Arabic city council would work, given the Constitutional separation of religion and state (perhaps an city council advisory committee of some kind would be an appropriate compromise).

The Arab community in Dearborn is also far less homogeneous than you (or I, up until now) have suggested. They run the gamut of nationalities, religiosity (including secularism), and sociodemographic profiles. Many are 3rd- and 4th-generation American. It's true that unemployment is high--though this is true across Michigan, particularly in regions dominated by the Big Three auto-makers. It's also true that many of the more recent immigrants have limited English--though many are older Iraqi refugees who fled the Gulf War.

I've no idea where you live, but you ever pass through, say, Toronto or Vancouver, swing through Chinatown. Suddenly, an ethnic neighbourhood--where the signs are in different languages and everyone's speaking something other than english and nobody seems to have assimilated--may not seem so foreboding and threatening.

Incidentally, flag burning, while perhaps heinous in your eyes, is protected as free speech by the First Amendment.

"Nobody has a right to an opinion unless they are in possesion of the evidence." - T.S. Eliot

'A' is only in possesion of his feelings, rather than facts and evidence.

'Freedom of religion' would require that there is freedom in religion. Islam is no such religion.

The punishment for apostacy is death. The punishment for freedom of speech is death (as Salmon Rushdie, Hirsi Ali, Theo Van Gough and countless others have found out). The punishment for being female is mutilation, bondage, humiliation, beatings, rape and death. The punishment for being 'Kaffr' is death. The punishment for creating and showing depictions of Mohammad is death. The punishment for being a Jew is death.

Shall I go on?

Islam is like no other religion. It is an imperialistic, supremist political ideology disguised as religion, that must force it's law, sharia, on the world through brutal force.

I suggest you get some facts before spouting off your opinion, 'A'. Because, obviously, you have no evidence supporting your ignorant, and indeed, dangerous point of view.

Islamic Cult Checklist

To extend the report as started by ET who says, correctly,

The ME Islamic community has changed to extremist on it*s own authority.

The Islamic community has promoted and spread a behaviour of suicide and murder.

It has not lifted a finger to inhibit, to chastise, or to disallow this behaviour.

They insistently defame the west and free democracy, and show on its (gov't controlled) media, images of murder, and images of praise for these murders.

To continue with the logic this accurate checklist calls out for, consider that the United Nations has totally failed to halt or even slow this criminal national behaviour.

Consider that the UN contributes to wars and feuds when INFIL personnel fail to report criminal actions to reduce conflict and instead act as human shields for Hezbullah terrorism.

The United Nations is rife with fraud and corruption and is actually contributing to, rather than stemming world conflicts.

There is every justification to evict the UN organization from its premises in New York and install an organization of democracies who clearly outlaw practices of suicide bombing and mass murder from inter-nation behaviour. Looking forward to the UDN. The United Democratic Nations.

= TG

Irwin Daisy is absolutely correct. What he wrote above is consistent with my own findings from my research into the truth about Islam.

Irwin Daisy is indeed correct. You have zero hope of understanding the world today without a good working knowledge of Islam and Islamic Imperialism, which is NOT hijacked by a extreme minority. I would add that you won't truly understand the Arab-Israel war without that understanding, i,e., the issue is totally misframed by Euro-Arab propaganda going back to the early 70s. It is the main front in the global jihad.

A: Read Bostom, Spencer, and most especially Bat Ye'or, and as someone suggested above: go to Spencer's jihadwatch daily. Learn that islamofascism is not really grievance-based or US foreign policy-triggered, tho of course they use grievances for propaganda purposes, and extremely successfuly. And learn how global it truly is -- which you just don't get from MSM.

Also visit the website Western Resistance.

Also: just think about the chaos the jihadists have been able to cause in the UK with only 3% muslim population.

Regarding Detroit, hold this thought, A, that one of the reasons America works is because we are assimilated, or, at least expect that as the basic measure of good citizenship. You can look at historic ethnic neighborhoods in all of our large cities, then, trace assimilation by the change in occupants over the years. None of those older ethnic neighborhoods changed street names to their liking or treated English as an option.

You don't find it ironic that Quebec is the one ton elephant in your living room as you instruct us on assimilation? Perhaps, you can enlighten us on what went wrong there? Seems the multi-culti platitudes, can't we all get along, have been missed on separatists.

You are so thoroughly a product of the vacuous left. No issue, no matter how complex, can't be reduced to a superficial platitude. No lefty pc slogan, once committed to memory, is ever really examined by you sheeple. No fact is ever allowed to interfer with your smug perceptions.

Me No Dhimmi, you got the right approach.

People, remember: what you must have is the truth. The media will not, not, NOT give it to you.

The internet is the way to go. You know how to research. Visit counterterror sites and uncensored, politically-incorrect truth-about-Islam sites.

On my own site, I'm far more defiant and hard-hitting, pulling no punches, than I dare be herein or even at the polite, if bluntly truthful, Jihad Watch. There needs to be people to blog aggressively against fundamentalist Islam and counter the Islamic fascist propaganda. It's an essential part of the overall war against jihad.

TG said (echoing ET):
The Islamic community has promoted and spread a behaviour of suicide and murder. It has not lifted a finger to inhibit, to chastise, or to disallow this behaviour.

TRUE, but western elites are much to blame for deferring to radical imams who have hijacked the mosques. Or put another way, how can we expect "moderate muslims" to speak up, if the dominant culture -- ours -- continues to refuse to call things by their proper names. Look at the craven Tony Blair, who I used to call Churchill abroad, Chamberlain at home, but now just call Chamberlain. And with only 3% of the population being muslim.

Totally agree with you on the UN. I would love to see the US withdraw and let it implode.

...."the culprits are now more often us. In the most affluent, and leisured age in the history of Western civilization--never more powerful in its military reach, never more prosperous in our material bounty--we have become complacent, and then scared of the most recent face of barbarism from the primordial extremists of the Middle East."...

opinionjournal.com/federation/feature/?id=110009312

Victor David Hanson in the WSJ today on the decline of the Age of Enlightenment and the Lefty elites' cheap and easy surrender to barbarism. They deserve each other.
Read it and weep.

They went out of there way to enact this little public drama. The seat extenders, basted in public prayer.

Is obviously a ploy designed for the MSM nightly sound bite. Another chance to befuddle us with false arrows of prejudice, while there compatriots ("Brothers") are killing the infidels, the world over.

I think better of the airline, who put passengers before politics. Or the nutty politically correct stupidity, that passes for wisdom. Remember the Help C crisis?

Brought about by these same spineless cowardly cretins caring more about rabid gay radicals than human lives, with the blood supply.

Being that the jihadists have declared war while the Islamic community has done nothing but cry wolf. If not encouraged them, supported them with propaganda, charities with the usual apologists. I would keep quiet when traveling. I applaud the passengers as well. Most canuks would have died with a PC smile.

After hearing them debase our beliefs & rights. Than demand we follow there religion, with its maniacal law, while trying to force us to abandon our heritage.

Their actions are appalling in the uncompromising mentality that arises from this false religion of hate, for them to have a whine & cheese party. While baiting us using the leftiods as a foil ,to spew there irrational rabid accusations.

Just my opinion.

I think better of the airline, who put passengers before politics.

Good point.

A Darwin Awards litmus test, what morons would pick up these bad behaving imam morons as hitchhikers at a rest stop other moronic lefties getting in touch with their inner anarchist?

Gotta love airline pilots, pc crap hasn't hit the cockpit.

Hands up everyone who thought it might be a good idea to hear the other side of the story before rushing to judgment on these events.

penny? irwin daisy?

Oh, and good for Kate for warning posters against unsubstantiated anti-muslim smears.

Stephen - Read your "other side", and......?

What? It's the predictable whining on a very fact-challenged lame lefty site.

Let's review, a public airport, a publicly disruptive and incongruous attention getting prayer fest(Evangelicals would escape similar scorn?, I think not.), all seats pre-selected at exit points, unnecessary belt extenders requested for medium to little statured guys, The Attitude, The Predictable PR Payoff.... geez, I don't know, Stephen, want to enlighten us as to what was really happening given those unrefuted facts?

"Anti-Islam smears", name a comment here that you can refute with contrary facts?

Stephen, Democracy Now, Amy goodwin?....that's not another side, my friend. It's where fact-challenged moonbats go for Kool-aid refills.

I am a moderate. A patient man. Peaceful. Forgiving. Brotherly.

Unfortunately/ Fortunately I am not a fool.

After much study, pause, soul-searching, I want the Canadian government to begin the process of qualification for Canadian citizenship - allegience to our flag, our established way of life. I appreciated people in this thread saying immigration towards "citizenship" is a priviledge, not a right.

I grew up within an imperfect, but great country; we have now what we have because of our forefathers Christian beliefs, not because of immigrant upstarts, possibly, most likely with other agendas, not interested in fostering finite selfish agendas.

I'm sorry - I really am, Muslim Canada. Pledge allegience to our Country, our established way of life; worship honourably, in "good-faith", with tolerance and foresight for all, or get back to where you come from.

For the person that brought Trudeau into the equation...Pierre had no concept of the Islamo-facists; yes he was arrogant, pompous, idealistic, but I think I know what he would say to what I just commented on, suggesting deportation for malcontent Islam-immigrants, if he knew what I know now....
Reporter: "Do you mean you would -really- deport Islamic peoples if they wouldn't devote goodwill to fellow Canadians?"
Trudeau: "Just watch me"

We need that certainty today...Lord, I pray for that certainty.

I have no qualms about loving and caring for Muslims that can pledge the same for me.

Stephen,

Stephen, paging Stephen, for facts regarding unfair, unsubstantiated slander against Muslim actions.

Anyone seen Stephen? = TG

If the North American muslim community is outraged that the rest of us are intolerant of them, it is because they are intolerant (and sometimes violently intolerant) of us. The problems they face in relating to non-muslims are entirely of their own doing. If they have a problem with intolerance from non-muslims, then perhaps they should take it up with their terrorist brethren, aka the ones who are the cause of all of the problems. As is the case of the US Air flight, if it is a choice between safeguarding the public, and hurting someone's feelings, the safety of the public must trump every time. Good on ya US Air.

Irwin Daisy: 'A' is only in possesion of his feelings, rather than facts and evidence

OK, I'll oblige. Penny and others believe this incident to be staged for publicity purposes. Among Penny's list of "unrefuted facts," she claims that "all seats [were] pre-selected at exit points." In fact, the seats were assigned by US Airways. One imam, Mr. Omar Shahin, was a frequent flyer with the airline, which is why his seat was upgraded to first-class by the airline. Otherwise, there'd have been no way for him to predict that he would end up at the front of the plane. If the plan was to monopolize the exit points, why not just book a first-class flight to begin with? Also, far from "unrefuted," it's still unclear whether the remaining five in fact sat in their assigned seats, or moved around.

Another of Penny's "unrefuted facts": the belt extenders were unnecesseary because the imams were "medium to little statured guys." Mr. Shahin, in fact, weighs some 290 pounds (self-reported; photos of Mr. Shahin corroborate, and indicate he is not obese, but neither is he thin).

Several other commenters echoed the claim that the six passengers were behaving "suspiciously"--praying loudly, getting up from their seats, etc. This conclusion, also taken as "unrefuted fact" on this thread, is based on selected media reports of police reports of unnamed sources. In fact, only three imams prayed together at the airport gate, in a corner. If the whole incident was a deliberate ruse, why not have all six pray together, in the middle of the waiting area?

They also travelled up and down the aisle several times. Indeed, all this hoopla started because a (unnamed) passenger wrote a note to a flight attendant that s/he was uncomfortable with the imams walking around. Again, if this was a staged event, why rely on having a nervous passenger notify the flight crew, which couldn't exactly be counted on to occur? In any case, the plane was on the ground, and had been delayed without explanation for the better part of an hour, so is it really so surprising that people were milling about?

Other facts:
- To curtail suspicions, Mr. Shahin had taken the extraordinary step of pre-notifying the FBI and the Minneapolis Police that he and his travel companions would flying into the area for a national conference.
- Ironically, the conference was on bridging the gap between Muslim and non-Muslim communities.
- One of the imams is blind. Not exactly a threatening presence, I imagine. Hardly the ideal type if you're aiming to pose as a terrorist cell as part of a publicity stunt.
- All six were handcuffed, escorted from the plane, interviewed and cleared to fly by the FBI. Despite this, US Airways continued to refuse to allow them on board any of their flights. Which is their perogative, but what is their rationale?

Stephen, paging Stephen, for facts regarding unfair, unsubstantiated slander against Muslim actions.

Anyone seen Stephen? = TG

You'll have to clarify your point.

A makes a number of good points in the most recent post: penny needs to look up the word 'unrefuted.'

Read the blue copy.

This is not a debating forum

By the time you've made your third comment on a thread, chances are you've said enough. Take it private, or move on.

A,

The 'facts' you presented are not facts, there is no evidence and you certainly didn't provide any. The facts are what has been presented in the news and substantiated by the airline taking the peculiar (peculiar because they presumably knew that they could be faced with a lawsuit), but obviously necessary action of taking the imams off the plane.

Furthermore, I was talking about Islam as an imperialist and unbelievably violent political ideology, which disqualifies their trojan horse 'religion' from the western concept of 'freedom of religion.'

Churchill said that what rabies are to dogs, Islam is to mankind. I think Churchill would have had a better grasp of Islam than you, or other liars and appeasers.

Do some homework.

Perhaps a good start would be the Barbary Coast Muslim raids and consequent enslavement of between 1 and 1.25 million white European and American Christians from the early 18th to the early 19th century. They wiped out whole coastal regions as far away as Iceland, where they captured and enslaved 400 people.

This was America's first war against Islam. The US navy, led by John Quincy Adams ended this period of Islamic terrorism. Fortunately for our ancestors and therefore ourselves, there were no multi-culti, PC, apologists and appeasers around like yourself. Read what John Adams had to say about it, especially the cause. What he found is still true today - and until the west reckons with the truth, we will not win.

(Christian slaves, Muslim masters - John Davis, 2003)