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October 19, 2006

Reader Tips

Why are we not surprised...

... that among the few times the elusive Maurice Strong raised his head after his alleged ties to the United Nations Oil-For-Food scandal became public, it was to rush to the defense of his one-time protege Eleanor Clitheroe?

Clitheroe, the former CEO of Hydro One, who spent $300,000 on limousine rides for her children's nanny, holds top spot in Canada's rogues' gallery of rip-offs from the public purse.

"Prepare to live without trousers, Mr. Tipton!"

The Revolution that Never Came - by Shadi Hamid founding member of The Project on Middle East Democracy

The media double standard - Studds Vs Foley. Read Mark M, in the comments section.

Use the comments for your own tips.

Posted by Kate at October 19, 2006 11:28 AM
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Comments

Speaking of double standards, your liberal media at work:

http://mediamatters.org/items/200610180011

Posted by: TruthSeeker at October 19, 2006 10:08 AM

After watching Road to Afganistan last night, we now know why the libs are touchy on the mission. If Harper had made the same decisions against such advise of the military leaders, the cbc etc would be all over him. Now we know that Chretain lied and soldiers died. 45 minutes notice you are sending 2000 troops to be killed is not a good legacy. Will this harm the libs in the polls. I doubt it. Barnum said a sucker is born every minute, and in Canada, all those suckers are liberals.

Posted by: maryT at October 19, 2006 10:17 AM

The Desmarais-Powercor alumnus just continue to pop up in every scam like a corn-studded stool we just can't rid ourselves of in 1 flush.

Chairman Moe's re-appearance in the hydro one scam fallout reminds us that all the old public trough grifters are still in play and that the incestuous nepotism in government and public trough raiding is set to go again the moment another powercor-Moe Strong protege like Bob Rae takes office.

Posted by: WL Mackenzie Redux at October 19, 2006 10:25 AM

The analysis by Shadi Hamid on the failure of ME democracy is, in my view, seriously flawed.

He first suggests, as is usual in all international affairs, that the fault is the US. The US, he claims, are afraid that Islamists will be voted into power and claims that the US is still economically supporting 'dictators in Egypt, Jordan, Algeria, Tunisia, Morocco, Oman and Saudi Arabia'. I question his definition of 'dictators', his ignoring the gradual movements to elected representation in these countries.

What would he prefer - that the US stop trading and/or economically helping these countries which would move them into economic hardship, always a safe haven for increased dictatorship?

Then, his second reason for the failure of democracy in the ME, is strange; he changes the definition of democracy to a requirement for a regime to have an opposition. I don't think that this is a valid definition, though, since it rests on freedom of speech, it is a valid requirement.
But, this enables Hamid to slither out of the real reason for the 'failure' - a conclusion which I don't accept anyway.

He says that the oppositional forces in the ME would be between Islamism (his term; Islamism means fascist Islam) and secularism. That's quite incredible. He's not critiquing the religion of Islam, but only saying that a ME state won't go for a non-religious opposition. Who says that an opposition must exclude religion?

What Hamid is refusing to do, is critique the Islamic religion. As I've said often, Islam is less a religion and more of a social and political ideology. It completely rejects Reason, it rejects the individual and focuses on the group, viewing the group as necessarily of One Mind. The concepts within this One Mind are all written, in the Koran. There is nothing outside of that book that has any validity. So, there is nothing to question, critique, analyze. Nothing.

Therefore, you can't have democracy because it is a social and political system that requires individuals to think. But the Koran rejects this action; individuals are not supposed to think - that is an affront to god, who knows everything and it's all in the koran.

The problem with democracy in the ME is the religious rejection of Reason, the rejection of the individual requirement to think and construct social systems. In Islam, the social system is already constructed, by god, and written in the koran. You, a mere man, have no right to set up a political system.

Hamid doesn't deal with this serious problem in that the religious ideology of the ME rejects the people actually participating in their own political and social systems. That has made them an easy prey for dictators, who move in, As Gods, and take over.

It is this ideology that has to be dealt with, as Pope Benedict is attempting, as others are attempting - but- it's not easy.

Posted by: ET at October 19, 2006 10:46 AM

Chretien Panicked because he had to make a choice..soldiers to Iraq and support the U.S. or soldiers on the cheap (with poor equipment) to Afstan ..no debate..no preparation (as seen by having no desert pattern cadpat available as going to a spot where they would be worn was nowhere on the radar.)

That is his legacy and should be his mill stone,but "da liddle guy from Shawinigan" is no where to be seen..perhaps he is taking in all the sights and sounds of the canoe museum 'uh?

Posted by: kursk at October 19, 2006 10:54 AM

Fire alarms and evacuation on Parliament Hill.
Garth must be burning all his papers, and it got out of hand.

Posted by: maryT at October 19, 2006 10:54 AM

Top spot in Canada's rogues' gallery of rip-off's...? Not even close. There are a lot of contenders for that throne , but Steve Harper confidant Brian Mulroney would be in the running for allowing, in '91, that family trust to move out of the country without having to pay a dime on the 3/4 of a billion dollars of taxes owed.

Posted by: maryjane at October 19, 2006 10:56 AM

When does Moe Strong's reign of privilege end?

Posted by: Liz J at October 19, 2006 11:01 AM

Att: Taliban Jack Layton/NDP/Ignatieff/Bob Rae:

Muslim Islamist terrorists, aka Taliban kill children. ...-

Suicide bomber in Afghanistan kills 2 kids

A suicide bomber in southern Afghanistan on Thursday killed two children and wounded seven civilians and a small number of British soldiers
canoe news

Posted by: maz2 at October 19, 2006 11:08 AM

It now seems the family trust thing is going to look like nothing compared to the income trust swindle.

Posted by: maryjane at October 19, 2006 11:12 AM

Jeancula and CSL SSMartin together in the same room? Sharing the same podium? Clinking glasses?

Spare the laughter; no hoots of derision.

The Senator Jim Munson, an-ex journalist, was appointed to the Senate by Jean Chretien two days before Chretien drank the hemlock and departed the Prime Ministership.

Soon Chretien will return from China where Maurice Strong is reportedly holed-up.
Does Chretien carry messages/orders from Strong?
The timing is right.

The next Librano$ PM, Paul Martin, Jr., took the cup of Power[sic] from Chretien, sipped the same hemlock proffered him by the Liberal Party.

The Liberal Party cares naught for their candidates, nor their leaders. Power Corp./Maurice Strong is the cup bearer/replenisher/controller/the power behind the throne of the Liberal Party. ...-


(from voy forums):


Former prime minister Jean Chretien will be at the Liberal leadership convention in Montreal later this year, but he will skip a tribute to his longtime rival Paul Martin, according to a report.

But the decision has nothing to do with friction between the two men, Senator Jim Munson told Montreal's La Presse.

Martin will be honoured on Thursday, Nov. 30. Munson added that Chretien will be unable to attend the salute on Thursday because he will be returning from a trip to China that week.

"Mr. Chretien will be at the convention Friday night and Saturday but he will be returning from a trip to Asia that week," said Munson, who was Chretien's communications director at the end of his third term in office.

"I'm sure that Mr. Chretien will be welcomed with a lot of affection by Liberal supporters.''

Posted by: maz2 at October 19, 2006 11:34 AM

Why are we not surprised?
""...."I was the one who lured Clitheroe into Ontario Hydro," Strong recalled........"

Eels that swim in the same pond!

Will Chairman Mo find his way into a US court?
One can only hope.

Posted by: OMMAG at October 19, 2006 12:15 PM

RE: The trouserless Mr. Tipton:

So,what do we do?

We step away from our comfortable conservative enclave.

We visit leftist web / forum / blog sites and leave seeds of honest truth with a link to verify that truth.

The curious and intelligent will become informed. These are the Liberals we welcome to move rightward.

Presently I am enjoying blog forums at BBC, The Scotsman, ParisMatch and Sweden.

Go international, encourage the defeatest Europeans and LIVE a little.

I too have spent too much time in my comfort loop of North American conservative web / blog sites = TG

Posted by: TG at October 19, 2006 12:21 PM

When does Moe Strong's reign of privilege end?
Posted by: Liz J at October 19, 2006 11:01 AM

. . . . .when a stake is driven through the vampire's heart.

Posted by: Fred at October 19, 2006 12:23 PM

maryjane Brian Mulrony was a t one time a part of power corp. What would you expect?

Posted by: Rob C at October 19, 2006 12:34 PM

In the interest of clarity this comment may seem short and abrupt.

The anticipated break with autocracy failed to materialize. Today, Arab dictators are as emboldened as ever. The heady democratic openings of last year have been replaced by sudden bouts of authoritarian retrenchment.

No surprise. . .

For those who snap their finger and enjoy the richest of opulent lifestyles, democracy, [transfer of control to the people], is a deathly threat.

Using unlimited oil wealth, it is to be expected that Chieftans would fight viciously to keep their iron fisted grip on power.

Does the Kuran*s thirteen page thesis clearly outline this urgent need to spoil democracy at all costs?

Ha! = TG

PS: Caution, this type of comment should not be posted directly to that or any *dark* ME websites. You may be inviting some nasty surprises via Email or otherwise. Avoid becoming a target.

Posted by: TG at October 19, 2006 12:51 PM

"Never Again"? Think again.

It's happening again.

German Jews Facing 1933 Redux

"LIFE for Jewish people in Germany has become reminiscent of the 1930s, a community leader claimed yesterday, after figures showed the number of neo-Nazi hate crimes had increased by 50 per cent in two years."

Based on a report in The Scotsman

http://thecanadiansentinel.blogspot.com/2006/10/german-jews-facing-1933-redux.html

Posted by: Canadian Sentinel at October 19, 2006 1:13 PM

anyone see oliver on ctv after mckay's speech..i thought he was going to cry...claiming to speak for the morale of the soldiers...where was he when martin sent them there in iltis jeeps, cam for northern europe, no airlift, no medivac, etc...idiots.......GO ARMY

Posted by: kingstonlad at October 19, 2006 1:34 PM

Liberals will reign over an orgy of theft and corruption if they get elected. Liberals are seriously pissed off at Canadian voters for denying them access to the treasury, so they're not going to hold back and they have to make up for lost time. And why not, they got away with it last time...

Posted by: Philanthropist at October 19, 2006 1:38 PM

hmmm..maybe he read sda...he just recanted half of what he said earlier...interesting...maybe there is hope for some of them....

Posted by: kingstonlad at October 19, 2006 1:40 PM

How many egg loll,you wan, Mistah Stlong? Two egg loll?

Mao Strong: All of them. ...-


Maurice Strong tilts at North Korea


Peter Foster, Financial Post
Published: Thursday, October 19, 2006

Rumours have long circulated that Canada's Maurice Strong -- doyen of the New Environmental Socialism -- might have hightailed it to China. Sure enough, confirmation came this week via an article in The Globe and Mail by Mr. Strong on the North Korean nuclear fandango. It ended with a note that, "Maurice Strong, the former envoy of United Nations Secretary-General Kofi Annan for North Korea, is currently residing in China and working on the Korean issue at the recently established Institute for Security and Sustainability in Northeast Asia at Peking University."

Mr. Strong vacated his UN envoy post 18 months ago in the wake of his implication in the Iraqi oil-for-food scandal. He took a cheque for almost US$1-million from South Korean businessman Tongsun Park as an investment in one of his troubled private business ventures. The money had been given to Mr. Park by Iraqi authorities to buy influence at the UN. Mr. Strong says he had no knowledge of the source of the funds. Last July, Mr. Park -- who had previously been involved in Washington bribery scandals and was also revealed to have provided Mr. Strong with a New York office -- was convicted of money laundering and of being an unauthorized agent of Saddam Hussein's government. Mr. Park's $1-million investment was lost as Mr. Strong's company failed.

The new UN Secretary-General, South Korean Ban Ki Moon, acknowledged this week that Mr. Strong had in the past briefed him on the North Korean situation, "but we were not aware he was involved in this kind of scandal. That was unfortunate." ...-

Posted by: maz2 at October 19, 2006 1:42 PM

While wandering around the G&M website after reading a link from another comment, I came across this story:"Sexual predator at private schools pardoned".

WTF??? The good old parole board is still doing stupid things to enlighten society. As it was the perp was just given a slap on the wrist even though one of his victims ended up jumping off a building only to survive and be locked up in a rubber room. Oh yeah, he was a teacher too. You know, one of those responsible folks young people should be looking to for guidence and inspiration. Does anyone care to defend this sicko?

Posted by: Texas Canuck at October 19, 2006 2:10 PM

"How many egg loll,you wan, Mistah Stlong? Two egg loll?"

Easy there. No need for silly stereotypes and comments like that. Just cause Strong has garnered well deserved criticism for his hidden agenda, that doesn't mean we need to scrape the gutter.
enough

Posted by: enough at October 19, 2006 2:11 PM

Maurice Strong is a weirdo he has such wacky ideas its a wonder anyone takes this idiot seriously

Posted by: spurwing plover at October 19, 2006 2:50 PM

ET (10:46 A.M.)...
I think you've nailed it. "Islamism" is the problem; the powerful Islamic/fascist elements in the ME can never be brought into government. Democracy is anathema to their creed. Period.

Incidently, I caught Michael Totten on Pajamas Media a couple weeks ago. He contends that Islamism in Algeria is COMPLETELY dead; the Algerian people have seen what it does to a nation... and NOW they'll have none of it.

Posted by: Joe B. at October 19, 2006 2:53 PM

"How many egg loll,you wan, Mistah Stlong? Two egg loll?"

maz2, Comments like this are an insult to everyone. Kindly take your racist stereotype nonsense elsewhere.

Posted by: David Brown at October 19, 2006 3:09 PM

Joe B - I doubt that Islamism, or Islamic fascism, is 'completely dead' in Algeria.

Islamism, like all utopian ideologies, has a strong appeal because it collects individuals into the emotional security of a 'Family' and with its focus on an apocalyptic eventual Purity, it brings an emotional high - rather like drug addiction.

The difficulties in eradicating Islamic fascism is that its followers are 'kept'; they do not maintain themselves economically and socially, but are maintained by democratic and capitalist economies.

For example, Saudi Arabia's economy is 'kept' in that it is based only on raw resource production, not on intellect, work, enterprise, entrepreneurship, innovation. And, the extraction of that oil is carried out primarily by foreigners. Not Saudi Arabians.
Same with the other oil economies.

The immigration of extremist Islamists into Europe has been enabled because the European states, as welfare states, support these people, who either do not work, or work at low income jobs and yet, receive the benefits of a state system of health care, housing subsidies etc.

Islamism, in its basic form, as a non-democratic, tribal, anti-individual, anti-Reason ideology, has never been put into play and tested for very long, in a modern industrial population base. I maintain that it cannot function in a modern industrial population.

It is extremely seductive as an ideology because it purports to have the answers to ALL problems. There is no need to, as an individual, take responsibility for anything. God does that. No need to plan, work, think, reason. It's all been decided for you. You can then concentrate on pure emotion.
So, utopian ideologies will always be with us.

And the danger of Islamism is that its followers are not 'tested'; they are protected by the non-utopians, the democratic and capitalist economies.

Posted by: ET at October 19, 2006 3:26 PM

Birds of a feather flock together.

Strong, Clitheroe, and all the others who have taken their turn at mismanagement, and gouging taxpayers while at Hydro One...Ontario Hydro...OPG:

2003-12
OPG exec's bonuses 'astounding': Minister
tinyurl.com/yzyuxe

2004-02
CEO Tom Parkinson's 2003 compensation hits $1,091,494
tinyurl.com/yap68e

2004-04
OPG chief made $8.3M over 5 years
tinyurl.com/yjjwyo

2006-04
"There are more people feeding at the hydro electricity trough under the McGuinty government than ever before in the history of Ontario and that's a big part of the reason why people's hydro rates are going through the roof,"
tinyurl.com/ydslkd


Posted by: JM at October 19, 2006 3:29 PM

Maz2 isn't stereotyping. He's accenting. I make fun of Arnold's accent and nobody calls me an anti-Austrian bigot. PCness runs amok again... see the post below this one for more on that...

That's a tip, btw.

Posted by: Canadian Sentinel at October 19, 2006 3:31 PM

Mr Strong is such a nut case with his weird pagan ideas i mean he,e so way out here he cant catch the ball becuase he is on the moon

Posted by: spurwing plover at October 19, 2006 3:55 PM

Online discussion
Sheema Khan on Muslims, the veil and fitting into Western societies
Globe and Mail


...Diane Schweik, Edmonton: I would like to ask Ms. Khan why Muslims demand tolerance from others when they themselves are so intolerant towards others? Mild criticism of her faith can be met with threats of harm and even death. Non-Muslims can find it difficult or impossible to practise their faith in Muslim countries. Acceptance and tolerance is a two-way street.

Sheema Khan: Diane, thank you for your observations.

First of all, I don't agree with your generalizations regarding Muslims as being intolerant. Historical facts, and current studies do not support that. Just yesterday, the British Home Office released a study showing Muslim high school students to be far more tolerant than their non-Muslim counterparts...

tinyurl.com/y36fbs

Posted by: JM at October 19, 2006 4:11 PM

Here's an update over the precarious situation of Abdul Rahman, the Afgan Christian convert that had to be 'spirited' out of Afganistan to escape execution as required by Sharia law:

news.yahoo.com/s/nm/afghan_journalist_dc - 31k - 18 Oct 2006

This demonstrates what is still wrong with Afganistan. There's a long road to travel with guaranteeing individual rights and freedoms for Afgan citizens. Mr. Rahman couldn't be protected so he was exiled...I hope that's not seen as progress.

I support Canada doing what it can to protect the fledgling democracy but the Afgan government needs to do more to speed up basic protections for its' citizens under a COMMON LAW for all. That's worth fighting for.

Posted by: Martin B. at October 19, 2006 4:38 PM

Is detente possible with the Islamic world?

Most people would argue that it's not possible - given the Islamic tactic of murdercide in allah's service - what threat does death hold for them?

What has to be threatened is something more precious than life. The future of Islam itself.

First, make the leftoids happy by pulling all the troops out of Iraq and Afghanistan.

Then issue a joint statement from all allied western countries:

One more terrorist attack and Mecca will be gone.

I know it's an old argument, yet I can't believe that Muslims would be willing to sacrifice one of their five pillars and number one holy place over an attack against the west. What Islamic state, organisation or Mohammadan would want responsibility for the implosion of their 'religion?'

The west could then stick the billions earmarked for war and security into, I don't know, a viable alternative to oil.

Oh yeah, and a moratorium on Muslim immigration would be necessary as well.


Posted by: irwin daisy at October 19, 2006 5:09 PM

Chairman Mao Strong speaks 'bout Martin and Chretien.

Mistah Stlong back wong dlagons; Kyloto him dead. ...-

Paul Martin will probably become the next Prime Minister of Canada. Do you think he would be more aggressive at meeting environmental and conservation challenges in Canada?

I wouldn’t use the word aggressive, but effective? Yes.

Committed? Yes.

After all, he was the environmental critic in the shadow cabinet of the Liberal party. He was down at Rio at the Earth Summit on the Canadian delegation when the Liberals were out of power and he was the environmental spokesman for the shadow cabinet.

His interest is deep.

I just spoke to him this morning, and he is very … I have full confidence that he is going to be very much committed to making Canada again a leader in environmental affairs. We have lagged recently.

Prime Minister Chretien has redeemed our international reputation to a considerable degree by championing the Kyoto Protocol.

But overall we have lagged, and I believe we will move out in front again in the environmental field under a Paul Martin government. ..-
corporateknights.ca

Librano$$$$$$$$$$


How Ottawa Sabotaged Our Kyoto Pledge in 2002

Chretien: protected petro profits
Quiet deal with oil industry locked in failure. ...-
tthe tyee.ca

Posted by: maz2 at October 19, 2006 5:39 PM

Pro-U.S. stance hurts Conservatives in poll

TORONTO (Reuters) - Support for Canada's ruling Conservatives is falling and the outcome of the next federal election is up in the air, according to a poll published on Saturday.

ca.news.yahoo.com/s/reuters/061014/n_top_news/news_politics_col

Posted by: Bob at October 19, 2006 5:40 PM

maryjane at 10:56 from edited hansard
1715 No.79
Wednesday, April 5, 2000

Mr. John Solomon (Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, NDP): If members will recall, the Liberals allowed the Bronfmans to transfer billions of dollars in trust accounts to the U.S. without paying taxes on the accounts. This created a loss to the Canadian taxpayers of almost a billion dollars. I think it was $750 million but we would not know because we were not told the value of the tax evasion, which was supported by the Liberals and the member for Wascana who also supported it front and centre. The Liberals allowed the Bronfmans to take this trust fund, which was set up in trust for the Bronfman family to use in Canada, and move it outside the country, thereby avoiding taxes.

Posted by: one of the other greg's at October 19, 2006 5:49 PM

From comments at Western Standard Shotgun:


Quote of the Day (From S.D.A. comments):

Is Garth Turner now dating Tie Domi?

Posted by: Eskimo | Oct 19, 2006 2:12:40 PM

******

Question: Who is Garth Turner?

Posted by: maz2 at October 19, 2006 6:04 PM

WARNING! DO NOT VISIT THE WESTERN STANDARD SHOTGUN BLOG!!!!!!

Like Stormfront, it is a major hate speech site, perhaps the biggest in Canada, and is likely flagged by major ISPs as such.

You do NOT want a site like the Shotgun in your browsing history; it can get you fired from your job, or worse!!!!

(Is maz2 a racist skinhead racist neo-nazi racist fascist racist?)

:-)

Posted by: Bob at October 19, 2006 6:16 PM

David Brown, enough, bugger off with your PC nonsense before I lay some Kung Fu on your sorry butts.

Posted by: Brian M. at October 19, 2006 6:39 PM

here is the site b O b does not want you to visit. http://westernstandard.blogs.com/

Posted by: alan at October 19, 2006 6:39 PM

CNN is in bed with terrorists, showing propaganda video of US soldiers being shot. See Little Green Footballs http://www.littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/weblog.php. for more details.

Posted by: alan at October 19, 2006 6:44 PM

Ontario is under the control of the fascist/socialist Liberal regime of Dalton McGuinty and his commissars. Store raiders they are.

Next on their target list are Chinese (faux) restaurants, Greek (faux) restaurants, Western Standard website, chicken-egg farmers and Rona's hairdresser; you know, the hair dryer melts, dummy. ...-


Ontario bill targets unsafe electrical items | October 19th, 2006

TORONTO — An extension cord that retails for $2 melts after heat from a hair dryer is applied for two minutes,

smoke spews from a lava lamp filled with oil

and a night light overheats after a pillow is thrown over it. ...-
jack's newswatch

Posted by: maz2 at October 19, 2006 7:11 PM

MacKay in dog house over alleged Stronach slur ...allegedly referred to his MP ex-girlfriend as a dog

theglobeandmail.com

Posted by: JM at October 19, 2006 7:54 PM

U.S. tracking N. Korean ship with banned military equipment: CBS News

Kyodo ^ | Oct 19
U.S. intelligence has detected the departure from a North Korean port of a North Korean ship suspected of carrying military equipment banned under a U.N. sanctions resolution against Pyongyang's Oct. 9 nuclear test, CBS News reported Thursday. The United States is tracking the ship, CBS said, noting that it remains uncertain exactly what the ship is carrying and where it is headed. free republic

Posted by: maz2 at October 19, 2006 8:10 PM

I think McKay should take that back. That is an insult to mans best and most loyal of friends.

Posted by: alan at October 19, 2006 8:21 PM

The best thing that can be said about CNN is..
Certainly Not the News!
Move along folks nothing to see here!

Posted by: OMMAG at October 19, 2006 9:03 PM

Herein is shown the arrogant presumptousness of the left liberal/socialists. They presume to speak for the "world".

Let's test this bs: All youse in favour of a no-name AIDS pill, please raise both left hands. ...-

London Free Press - 17 Oct 2006
By JOE MATYAS, FREE PRESS REPORTER. Whatever it's named, it could be the HIV/AIDS treatment for

which the world has been waiting.

Posted by: maz2 at October 19, 2006 9:17 PM

Stephane Dion, Liberal wannabe leader/PM of Canada, has dual citizenship: France and Canada.

His loyalty is divided between 2 countries, France and Canada. If he became Prime Minister of Canada, which country's interest would he place first?

G-G Jean gave up her French citizenship. Why does Dion retain/not give up his French citizenship? ...-

Straight shooter looks to lead

Extract:

"Mr. Dion's mother, Denyse, was a real-estate agent. Born in Paris, she gave her children their dual citizenship; Léon Dion would joke he was the only one in the household to be solely Canadian.

(Mr. Dion does not have a French passport and has not voted in a French election, his staff says.)" G&M

Posted by: maz2 at October 19, 2006 10:04 PM

THIS IS A MUST SEE VIDEO.

I SAY AGAIN, Kate, you should post on this.

http://hotair.com/archives/2006/10/19/moderate-muslims/

Posted by: Tip at October 19, 2006 10:08 PM

Speaking of Caledonia...

Apparently, if you're a white guy/gal and you criticize McGuinty, he deports your relatives...

Posted by: Skip at October 19, 2006 10:08 PM

Brian M, Maz,
Good rule of thumb is if you would talk to someone you know using that accent. Got an asian friend that you would talk to like that? Give me a break wrong is wrong control yourselves.
enough

Posted by: enough at October 19, 2006 11:39 PM

Here's something interesting from Canadian Press..
Commenting on the Trurner story by quoting from blogs...notice a theme?

http://start.shaw.ca/start/enCA/News/NationalNewsArticle.htm?src=n101993A.xml

Posted by: OMMAG at October 19, 2006 11:40 PM

Eleanor Clitheroe, now there is a name I haven't heard in a long time. A GOOD long time.

Posted by: Jason Bo Green at October 20, 2006 12:09 AM

And an unfortunate name it is, too. I feel dirty just reading it.

Posted by: surly at October 20, 2006 1:09 AM

Mistah Tulnel, not go gleen with Mao Stlong?

No egg loll for Mistah Tulnel, Mao says. ...-

Is it fair that the Conservatives ejected Garth Turner from their caucus?

Yes, it's reasonable to ask MPs to respect party solidarity
72.8%

No, it's inconsistent for the Conservatives to talk about democratic reform and then kick someone out for speaking his mind
26.6%

Other (email mornings@fra.com)
0.45%
Total Votes: 439

Posted by: maz2 at October 20, 2006 8:15 AM

For all poll worshippers/watchers:

10/18/2006 4:17:34 PM

Federal Conservatives maintain a solid lead in voter support, but gap with the opposition Liberals has narrowed over past six months

OTTAWA: Nine months into its new mandate, the Conservative government led by Stephen Harper maintains its lead among decided voters, but the gap with opposition Liberals has narrowed over the past six months, according to a new survey by the Environics Research Group conducted in September-October. Current party standings are now very close to the actual vote recorded in the January 23rd election. ...-
environics org

Posted by: maz2 at October 20, 2006 8:27 AM

If chairman Mo ever makes it to US court , does anyone think that the MSM will report it with the same glee they follow Lord Blacks downfall?

Posted by: cal2 at October 20, 2006 9:14 AM

The c/p, below, has been posted by TDH, a Liberal, as stated on his website.

TDH; control yourself.

Political correctness by TDH? G'wan. Political correctness is a vile attempt to censor free speech; the Muslim Islamist terrorists are allied with the political correctness left liberals. 'snough?

Notice the word "Gag" used as a hotlink. Ironically, redneck cons use that as a code word for..... Alfonso Gagliano, Librano$'s bookie, er bookkeeper.

The blood on the Liberal Party floor keeps rising...gag. ...-


October 19, 2006 - Gag. Paul Martin's statuette will be in the shape of a knife sticking out of a mould of Jean Chretien's back.

And in a related story, John Turner will be given a Lifetime Achievement Award for his contributions to the Liberal winning tradition.

Posted by: maz2 at October 20, 2006 9:25 AM

RAE LIKELY TO LEAD GRITS
Although it's roughly six weeks before Liberal party delegates choose their leader, I'm prepared to predict right now who will win: Bob Rae.

(A prediction from Peter Worthington, via national newswatch.)

Grits is code for The Mao Party; sorry, scrub that.

The Egg...no,can't say eggloll, either.

Start over: Uncle Mao Strlong is a clommunist; Bob Rae says, Mo Strong is his Uncle Mo. Believe it. ...-

Posted by: maz2 at October 20, 2006 9:42 AM

Im pretty sure that Peter McKay didnt refer to Paris Stronach as a dog. He would have been more gender sensitive and referred to her more properly in the correct term for a female dog.

Posted by: cal2 at October 20, 2006 10:31 AM

The Libs are in a snit over McKay's refence to Belinda as a dog.
It wasn't that long ago the Libs were equating Olivia Chow to a Chow breed.
Goose - Gander thingy here, no?
Belinda? Austrian shorthaired Pinscher?
Nah, more Pitbull.

Posted by: Joe Molnar at October 20, 2006 10:56 AM

Non-citizens should be able to vote
INNOCENT MADAWO

...I support this proposal for two reasons. One, I am an immigrant and I want to participate in choosing leaders for my adopted home...

...It is estimated that of the more than 4 million Toronto-area residents, about 40% are either landed immigrants or refugees. They are not citizens, but they are people who are living here on a permanent basis...

...immigrant participation could widen the scope of voting issues to include other important concerns like provision of affordable accommodation, jobs for foreign-trained professionals and other matters...

torontosun.com

Posted by: JM at October 20, 2006 11:04 AM

A rittle shrong for Berinda.

Tie Me Dominix Down Boy
Tie Me Domi nie Down Boy
Tie Me Dominix Down Boy
Tie Domi Down

Posted by: cal2 at October 20, 2006 11:07 AM

Is Garth Turnering Green?

Garth Turner was elected as a Conservative Member of Parliament in the January election. In a minority government each vote is critical to the government. However, this week Stephen Harper and his Conservative MPs decided to expel Turner from their caucus.

One of the keys to Turner's electoral success was his Internet Blog. The Conservatives complained that the free-speaking MP had breached caucus confidentiality.

On Wednesday, Turner blogged, "I have said here many times, and consistently since I was elected this last time, that I work for the voters - the people, the taxpayers. After that I heed my party and the political establishment. All are important, of course, but the people come first."

"And people, seems to me, want political leaders and MPs who look at every opinion, chew over ever idea, kick every notion, and then decide what's best. The older I get and the more people I run into, the more I understand this is not a black-and-white world," Turner continued.

Turner's comments on his blog on the government's environmental plan appear to have been the straw that broke the camel's back.

Posted by: NWOUpdates at October 20, 2006 11:38 AM

Oh , my Godfrey.

Mo-memtum is building, swelling, nay, to the point of tumescence, for the candidate of the Kyoto Mao Strong Party.

Bob's balloon is rising higher, higher into the Clouds. Bob thinks he is Icarus. Bob's Uncle Mo is Daedalus. Will Bob make it to shore? ...-

GODFREY MOVES TO RAE
Bob Rae has picked up yet another former candidate in his bid to become the next leader of the federal Liberal party. (national newswatch)


Posted by: maz2 at October 20, 2006 12:19 PM

It will all come home to roost in one huge crash. The blogsphere has known for years. The Canadian Main Stream Media has closed ranks for years and refused to report it. But as soon as one major media outlet "breaks" the news, the rest will have to fallow.

The link between Maurice Strong, The UN, the four Prime Ministers before Harper, the Kyoto Hoax, Saddam/UN oil for food scandal, Ontario Hydro, The Desmatais family, France oil conglomerate Total, and lastly, but MOSTLY, Canada's major Medias. IMO, even if only some of these links are solid, it is a major, major scandal of world porportions.

Posted by: B. Hoax Aware at October 20, 2006 12:43 PM

The Liberal leadership race was over before it started. It was reported on sda a long time ago by Kate and commenters. Rae would most likely win. Check the archives.

Why ? The attached strings from above. Other Liberal leadership hopefuls, Liberal delegates, party workers, Lib MPs all know. But mostly Canada's MSM Reporters know where the real power lies in the back room. The pollsters also know. They had better slant their results in an attempt to sway voters. (people like to vote for the winner) This has worked in the past but no more. Not in the Internet era. Remember Dec 05 ? All of a sudden the polls favoured Harper. Well, guess what ? The blogs knew this months before. The media and the polls suppressed it. Maybe there is hope for Canadian Democracy after all.

Posted by: B. Hoax Aware at October 20, 2006 1:00 PM

At least some powerful Liberals may be seeing the light. Check out Warrenkinsella.com, musings Oct 19.

Posted by: B. Hoax Aware at October 20, 2006 1:06 PM

McGuinty says Ottawa must pay for the entire cost of handling the Caledonia 'occupation'.
The man has no clue.
http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2006/10/20/2078387-cp.html

Posted by: Rich at October 20, 2006 1:19 PM

Seems familiar to Pierre Trudeau's "Fuddle Duddle" comment of the 70s. As a defence, Peter may want to check the precedent. Was PET repremanded, charged?? .. Apologised? I can not remember.

Posted by: B. Hoax Aware at October 20, 2006 1:21 PM

whats important on CBCpravda this morning.

Stronach demands MacKay apologize for alleged 'dog' comment


pravda barking up the wrong tree again.isnt peter pansbridge , the head of CBCfantasyland reading the news tonight.

Posted by: cal2 at October 20, 2006 1:25 PM

BS is on cbc demanding an apology. She wasn't even in the house yesterday. I demand a public apology from BS for screwing Tie. And, what happened to the libs for the ad comparing taliban jacks wife to a dog. I remember fuddle duddle. Seems all the libs are doing lately is demanding apologies. Have they apologized to the cdn voter for ad scam, ignoring military advise and sending troops to Afgan, the pepper spray, a PM choking a heckler, why should I sell your wheat, the finger to western canadians, the submarines, the outrageous expenses of senators (remember the guy that lived in Mexico) and so many other screw ups.

Posted by: maryT at October 20, 2006 1:36 PM

The MSM no longer has a chokehold on public opinion. Blogs and talk-radio have burst their bubbles.

The left liberals are in panic mode with their finger-pointing at the publishers, owners, et al.

Idiots, they are. The terrible mistake thay are making is: It's not the media to blame, Teddy; after all, the media is out solely for profits; that is not the problem; it's your message(s), Teddy, you dinosaur of the left liberals.

Your audience is shrinking/dying, Teddy. Your left liberal lies are dust/ashes in your mouth. Good-bye, Teddy.

Isn't it a "terrible shame"?, bleats Teddy; bleating like a stuck pig. ...-


SULZBERGER SLAMMED AS PROFITS DROP 39% (Teddy launches surprise attack on Pinch)

NY POST ^ | October 20, 2006 | PAUL THARP
The New York Times Co. reeled yesterday from a 39 percent drop in profits as it came under a surprise attack from liberal politicians for gutting and damaging its sister Boston Globe...... pressure mounted on chief Arthur "Pinch" Sulzberger to plug a drain of newspaper ad dollars being steadily siphoned away by the Internet. The profits bomb came as Sulzberger got scolded yesterday by a group of prominent politicians and business leaders in Boston, led by Sen. Edward Kennedy (D-Mass.), claiming Sulzberger and his team have committed a "terrible shame" by gutting the paper since acquiring it in 1993.
free republic

Posted by: maz2 at October 20, 2006 1:38 PM

NBC is cutting its news coverage. 700 jobs cut. Is there a message there.
Does anyone have the comments made by the lib leadership guys in regards to PMSH comments, It is a measured response. I recall they all jumped all over it, as did the talking heads. That to me, is anti-isreal. The libs are working overtime to get attention off of iggys stupid remarks, and give him time to take his feet out of his mouth.
It is not working. We have long memories, and every time they bring up a topic we can bring up dozens more about them. Remember the Chow Dog ad last election, by a liberal.
What ever happened re the conservative guy that had to withdraw, for supposed smuggling, or the ndp guy bribing a lib. BS crying Peter has no respect for women by his supposed remark. Does an adulteress have respect for wives. Double standard, and notice how tired she looked today. Who was she with last night.

Posted by: maryT at October 20, 2006 2:18 PM

Sheila Copps has just told BS, on cbc, to drop it, that dog wont hunt. Imagine the libs defending an adulteress in her support of women.

Posted by: maryT at October 20, 2006 2:27 PM

Here is a specimen of the MSM message(s) by the Bell Media Empire and its editors/censors, etc.

Find the bit re ruffled feathers, etc. Notice the "Ms." political correctness bs. Notice the word "polarizing"; it's another way to say, divisive, which is part of the Liberal scare-Canadians spiel. Liberals: the party of Fear. Your fear doesn't work, anymore, Liberals.


Here is the Fear Factor:

a conservative woman may be a Conservative candidate... a conservative woman stood against the Ontario Human Rights CommiSSion, the sharia court of the leftlib/socialist's religion.

"Ms. Haskett is a polarizing figure in the community — a popular mayor who nonetheless caused controversy by refusing in 1995 to declare Gay Pride Week. She and the City of London were fined $10,000 by the Ontario Human Rights Commission."

Also, note the respect/space given to Lib spieler, "Mr. MacKinnon". Free propaganda given to the Liberals by the MSM/Bell Empire; all dressed up as "news". ...-

PM ready to call by-elections, sources say

BRIAN LAGHI - Friday's Globe and Mail


Federal Conservatives have been put on alert to prepare for two snap by-election calls in Ontario and Quebec, a move that would catch Liberal workers in the middle of their leadership campaign and put pressure on some leadership candidates to run.

Sources told The Globe and Mail that Prime Minister Stephen Harper could make the call as early as today or on the weekend. ...-
3w.voy.com/178771/37615.html

Posted by: maz2 at October 20, 2006 2:28 PM

Didn't Eleanor Clitheroe find God? Isn't she now a woman of the cloth,an Anglican Priest?
She'll have to pray hard on her friend Old Moe.

Posted by: Liz J at October 20, 2006 2:58 PM

Right maryT, BS is some representative for womankind!
If she weren't rich we'd have some different adjectives to apply.

The desperate Liberals are trying to portray the conservatives as anti-women and this is taking advantage of grade six banter and stretching it beyond common sense and reason.

So Peter implied she was a dog, so what, she's a modern woman in politics, she should be able to deal with that and laugh it off. Of course the Lieberals haven't much to laugh about these days.

Posted by: Liz J at October 20, 2006 3:12 PM

Rick Bell - Calgary Sun Today - Lyle Oberg once again the lone provincial Tory bigwig who dares to take issue with ramblings of outgoing Premier Ralph Klein

Oberg is getting the last laugh. If hindsight = votes he should be a shoo-in.

Bell writes: "Day before yesterday, Ralph, not content to ride off into the sunset, urges cities and his own government to stop building because it's costing so much."

Bell further writes about Oberg: "He admits to "laughing quietly to myself" when he hears others running for Tory leader waxing poetic about dealing with the building backlog now, when they did everything they could to stop his plans for construction.

A year ago, his proposal to borrow a billion bucks if necessary to start building was leaked to the press, quickly scuttled and a month later Lyle's responsibilities as the boss of building were se-verely cut. He was stripped of the job of putting up schools and hospitals.

"We're out there putting away money for a rainy day and in this account and that account and in the other account but realistically, with infrastructure, it's raining today," he says."


Posted by: Cheri at October 20, 2006 3:18 PM

Belinda Stronach desrves everything being said about her. She sure as heck doesn't deserve McKay's respect after her very public stunt. How she could expect him to communicate with her on an elevator or anywhere else after what she pulled, is laughable.

Posted by: Cheri at October 20, 2006 3:25 PM

Comments on this BS crap at the g&m have mostly run negatively against BS. Hers, and the libs outrage re the remark has just opened up the memories of all of us re BS's actions. Many said she should talk to Tie's wife, re respect for women. Many called her an adulteress. The Chow ad was recalled. Many referred to her as a female dog, and many thought the apology should be to dogs as they were demeaned by the so called comment. All her sins were brought back into the limelight, along with many previous lib comments and actions. Comments are closed.vThats the power of SDA and the internet. Somebody always remembers something.
Will the libs learn, NO. Will Rae run in the by-election, if it is called. Better yet, will he dare incase he loses, before Dec 3. Could be a liberal plot to ruin his chances for leader. That conservative candidate in London sounds like a winner.

Posted by: maryT at October 20, 2006 3:51 PM

As I understand it, Peter's alleged 'doggie' response about Belinda was prompted by one of the Liberals goading him (that really was the true essense of the Liberal barb, not really about Peter's dog) over his break up with her, just before she jumped over to Paul Martin's ship. (I really wish she had jumped over the side of one of Paul Martin's ships, but that's another story. One can always hope).
The initial barb to Peter was cowardly and in poor taste, so IMO, if Peter did respond in the manner he is accused of, the Liberals got back everything they deserved.
My advice to the Libs would be to quit your sanctimonious, hypocritical belly-aching and get back to work. You're wasting both the time of the House of Commons, and our tax dollars.

Posted by: Joe Canuck at October 20, 2006 3:58 PM

LARGE DEAD ANIMALS

the latest from CBCpravda
.5 killer whales missing, feared dead along B.C. coast

Do they realize what a stupid headline this is. Im sending it to Jay Leno.
guess who is paying for this climate change fiasco.

Posted by: cal2 at October 20, 2006 4:15 PM

"by one of the Liberals"
Uhhhh I'll take pathetic dipwads for a hundred Alex.
That would be...
Who is Ontario Provincial liberal leader in hiding Daltoon McSquity's brother, Dave.

Posted by: richfisher at October 20, 2006 4:19 PM

another headline from CBCpravda.

B.C. skiers will flock to Alberta as climate warms: geographer

the horror, the horror.
I love the smell of greenhouses gases in the morning , it smells of blasphemy.

Posted by: cal2 at October 20, 2006 4:52 PM

I'm no fan of BS, and I think the comment was relatively witty. HOWEVER, the fact that McKay lied about saying it, and wans't truthful isn't something that conservatives should accept, or ignore.

Posted by: Adune at October 20, 2006 5:33 PM

IMO, BS is one of the all-time least attractive politicians this country's produced. And even with all that money, she's a sheer mediocrity--even in the trivia categories like clothing and looks.

SHE certainly owes Peter an apology. However, the huge betrayal she perpetrated against all kinds of people was not counter to the rules of Parliamentary procedure, while his alleged remarks--very small potatoes, indeed!--are.

If the tapes prove he said what he's alleged to have said, I'd advise him to just say a cursory "Sorry," and move on. If he did call BS a dog, I think she got off lightly. Of course, he shouldn't have said it, but . . . A lot of us can understand why he might have been provoked into doing so.

This most definitely won't change my vote!

Posted by: lookout at October 20, 2006 5:55 PM

I am tired of hearing about Belinda the victim. The only thing that suprises me about her is that she actually has a job and is not just staying home and trying to work the system into giving her what she thinks she wants.

Secondly, excuse me for being a little skeptical when only 8-10 people in a room of 350 hear a remark. (and all of the same politial stripe too). The speaker of the house (who is also a liberal) says he can't hear (what the other liberals seem to) the slur purpoted to be on the tape.

I have little respect for BS if I ever had any at all. Respectable MPs like.... well like every other woman in parliment should stand up and denouce the minister(critic) of complex files. A perpectual victim is no role model for the strong people that exist within the both genders.

Posted by: Barcs at October 20, 2006 6:13 PM

You know, there might just be something in the Japanese style of parlamentary debate where they break out in a hockey game... errr brawl. It might put an end to crap like: "Mr Speaker, he called me a name. I know I wasn't there but he did and my feelings are hurt even worse than Mrs Domi."

Posted by: Texas Canuck at October 20, 2006 6:18 PM

Poster at voy forums said:

Maybe the opposition – and in particular the Liberals who sat idly by for 13 years while air quality got worse - should listen to the Canadian Medical Association (CMA):

“(…) the proposed new federal Clean Air Act was an important acknowledgement of the environment as a key determinant of health.”

“Physicians across the country know how important it is to improve the quality of the air our patients breathe,” said CMA President, Dr. Colin McMillan. “We are hopeful that the promises made today in the Clean Air Act will translate into real action on air quality that will improve the health of Canadians.”


3w.conservative.ca/EN/2459/56488

Posted by: maz2 at October 20, 2006 6:53 PM

Good shot there Texas Canuck!
Belinda pulled an extremely underhanded stunt on Peter and the Conservative Party. She sure as hell should not be trusted by anyone, man or woman.

It's all about Belinda, nothing else.
Surely the people of her riding will give her the boot next time around.

Posted by: Liz J at October 20, 2006 7:00 PM

The thing that really bothers me about Parliament is that you can't even speak the truth--you know, about BS--without getting in trouble.

I guess Peter could have called her something else, and all would be well. But he alludes to the fact that she's a dog--well, she is, BIG-TIME--and he's hauled on the carpet by all the Librano and MSM crybabies.

They sure are scraping the bottom of the barrel to make trouble for the CPC. If Canadians can't see through this, then we deserve whatever we get--and I'll have to find some hills to head to.

Posted by: 'been around the block at October 20, 2006 8:15 PM

Earlier today, I was thinking of those hills too.

Are there any left? (Or on the right?!)

Posted by: lookout at October 20, 2006 11:04 PM


I guess private sector metrics don't apply to people you irrationally loathe - seems to me that Strong turned the largest loss in Hydro when he got there into the largest profit without raising rates.

I know you all are doubtless extremely skilled high-level businessmen, especially maz2, who seems obsessed with Strong, so perhaps you will share with us your similar triumphs. I'm sure Ptere Foster has many - oh wait, he only writes about things, like you guys - doesn't acutally do jack squat.

Those that followed at Hydro, including Clitheroe, sure as hell feathered their own nests and guess what - they did so under the "watchful" eye of probably the least effective Energy Minister ever known to man (or men, actually, but I digress). It is on the public record, Strong spent most of his time at Hydro (other than early days at $400k) earning $1 per year. Nice trying to imply otherwise while you clearly knew otherwise. How typically dishonest.

Endless character assassination is a game played by morons, and it gets tiresome.

Posted by: youareidiots at October 20, 2006 11:52 PM

I miss the days of John Crosbie who would lighten and enlighten at the same time.

"have some tequila Sheila and lie down and love me again"

" shut up baby"

and my favourite to Allan MacEachen

"arent we having a gay old time" which sent MacEachen into fits whilst Crosbie sat down selfsatisfied and cool. Methinks he did protest to much.

Posted by: cal2 at October 21, 2006 11:28 AM

youareidiots said:

"Endless character assassination is a game played by morons, and it gets tiresome." .....

Hyok Kang says: "Starvation Is Paradise". Thank you, Mao Strong. .....

Bob Rae's Uncle Mao Strong, from his rat-hole in China, says:

What? Starvation is my socialist-communist paradise. Let 'em eat grass, tree bark,and uranium. ...-


Starvation Is Paradise-

-My emaciated childhood in the North Korean workers' utopia.

Frontpagemagazine/London Times ^ | 10-16-06 | Hyok Kang

Growing up in North Korea, Hyok Kang was surrounded by desperate people who ate grass and bark before they died. Yet pervasive propaganda made them feel lucky to be there.

The first time I ate chocolate was when I was five years old. My grandfather had relatives in Japan who were given exceptional permission to visit us. They came like extraterrestrials with their arms full of presents and food. I remember waving tins of condensed milk and chocolate bars under my friends’ noses. I was a horrid little boy. It was 1990 and I didn’t yet know what famine was. I wouldn’t taste chocolate again until we escaped to China when I was 13.

In 1994, shortly before the death of Kim Il-sung, the Great Leader, the state food distribution system began to break down. Eventually, there was no more rice, no more potatoes. We moved on to vile food substitutes. Weeds, of whatever kind, were boiled up and swallowed in the form of soup. We picked these inedible leaves on the edges of the fields or the banks of the river. The soup was so bitter that we could barely keep it down.

Our neighbours collected grass and tree bark — usually pine, or various shrubs. They grated the bark and boiled it up before eating it. And much good it did them: their faces swelled from day to day until they finally perished.

Not only food was scarce. Our teachers gave each of us collection quotas: maize leaves (for paper mills), copper and other metals — and, during the winter, dung for fertiliser. We had to take six whole carts of faecal matter to the school, and not any old excrement: it had to be human. As it was frozen — the temperature fell to -20C or -30C — we used a pick or a hatchet to hack it from the back of the rudimentary outdoor toilets by each dwelling. In extremis, dog poo was tolerated as well.

My mother started selling buns and pancakes in the market. She was shattered by the sight of dozens of ragged urchins (some of them little more than toddlers) avidly watching the customers as they ate their pancakes just in case they accidentally dropped some. Then they would dart forwards to pick up scraps and stuff them into their mouths. Some adults, racked with hunger, beat the children and stole from them.

International food aid began to arrive in Onsong, our city, near the border with China. For a while the children started to get their strength back. But then the cadres reduced the rations. First the children had to make do with soup, then with nothing. Their faces were terribly thin, their cheeks were hollow and their eyes bulged with hunger.

The United Nations must have heard that the aid was not being distributed, because an inspection was organised. The party cadres, who had been alerted in advance, had rice delivered to the schools from state storehouses, which were apparently far from empty. The children were told to tell the UN inspectors that this diet was perfectly normal. On the day of the visit there were all kinds of dishes on the menu: noodles, maize soufflé. Once the UN team set off again, the cadres took back everything, including all the uneaten food from the tables where the children were still sitting. ...-

3w.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1720557/posts

Posted by: maz2 at October 21, 2006 11:59 AM

well.

regarding ms stronach I can assure all readers she is not a dog.

dogs given time enough to acquire their instinctive level of loyalty will not overnight change said loyalties. even a dog that 'turns on' its master gives signs of trouble.

no stronach. her only common trait with dogs regarding loyalty is when it comes to the food dish. in her case the parliamentary trough.

she has never had loyalty to any one any thing but herself ergo she cannot be a dog.

Posted by: qwerty at October 21, 2006 5:30 PM
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