Sooooo,.. Vancouver's Safe Injection Site is on the Taliban's and Taliban-Jack's side. Let me get this straight. Taliban Jack and Canada's MSM, by and large, support SI sites, sort of a reward-failure thing. The SIS buys their cocaine from Taliban types in Afganistan. The $Billions$ are used to fight and kill Canadian soldiers. Soldiers that are helping the Afgan people in their effort build schools and free Afgan Women from Slavery.

What is wrong with this picture ?? Am I wrong ??

As long as the drugs are purchased on the street; you are completely correct.

This has been a well known revenue source of the Talibs....the real question to ask is why the US policy in the area ( set by CIA foeald ops) will not allow Canadians to destroy the poppy production????

The answer to this question has a direct tie to not only our ability to win this conflict...but opens the question of why we are taking orders from US policy agencies.

Our generals know what is best to win this conflict and they have consistantly cited the poppy production as being a road block to victory....ask the CIA why our commanders concerners have been overridden by CIA policy in the region?

" The SIS buys their cocaine from Taliban"

Aren't we talking about poppies not coca?

Alternate earning options must be developed, otherwise poppy farmers simply join the Taliban.

Its a looong road ahead. = TG

Poppy = opium, heroin, morphine = Afghanistan

Coca = Cocaine, Crack = Columbia

These poppy fields have to stop. Not to mention,
Jack.

In previous discussions about opium production it was pointed out that poppies were one of the few profitable crops for the farmers. They will keep growing them until improvements are made to the infrastructure so that bulkier and more perishable crops can be delivered to market.
Western governments should buy the poppies at the source, this would also reduce the supply back home.
I know this would cause panic on East Hastings but the current programs certainly haven’t been much of a success.

Poppies mean the farmers eat... no poppies, they starve. At this point there is no alternative to the poppy crop... talk about a circular rat F*&^.

Development, Drug War, and Taliban War, have all got to be prosecuted at once and with incredible dedication.... here and over there. Hands up all those who think Lollipop Jack is the man for the job.

You simply pay a higher stipend to not grow poppies. You offer that with free skills training. Money is going to have to flow into Afghanistan infrastructure and alternate employment for rural men.

This time around everyone, Canada, Europe, whatever is left of the decent world, needs to fund this. US taxpayers shouldn't have to be always footing the bill disproportionately. Every country has high maintenance heroin addicts.

aaaaaaand speaking of goings on in the ME:

lookie what one mr Bob Woodward (watergate fame)
has to say about george dubya and members of his entourage in his latest book 'state of denial':

Among Woodward's allegations:

Former White House chief of staff Andrew Card twice tried to persuade President Bush to fire Rumsfeld, in 2004 and 2005.

Former National Security Council staff member Robert Blackwill pressed for more troops in Sept. 2003, but was ignored by U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice. "The bottom line: we need more troops in Iraq," Blackwill wrote in a lengthy memo to Rice. He suggested 40,000 more soldiers.

Gen. John Abizaid, the top U.S. commander for the Middle East, complained to the C.I.A. director that the war was not going as well as Rumsfeld claimed. "These bastards in Washington have no idea what they're doing," Woodward quoted Abizaid as saying in one meeting.

Despite escalating violence, Woodward quotes Bush as saying in Nov. 2003 that "I don't want anyone in the cabinet to say it is an insurgency. I don't think we are there yet."

At one point, Rumsfeld and Rice were on such poor terms that the defence secretary refused to return her phone calls, until Bush intervened.

After former Secretary of State Colin Powell was removed from the administration in 2004, he said Rumsfeld should also leave. Powell apparently told a White House official: "If I go, Don should go."

Just two months before the 9/11 attacks, on July 10, 2001, CIA director George Tenet met with Rice to express concern over a possible impending attack, but later felt Rice did not take his warning seriously.

When the chief weapons inspector David Kay suggested the Iraq government may have had the ability to manufacture weapons of mass destruction without actually building any, C.I.A. Deputy Director John McLaughlin said: "Don't tell anyone this. This could be upsetting. Be very careful. We can't let this out until we're sure."

Lt. Gen. Jay Garner, who led the first Iraq Postwar Planning Office, told Rumsfeld in June 2003 the U.S. had made three initial mistakes in Iraq: removing Baath Party members from government positions; dismantling the Iraqi military; and, the dismissal of an eager interim Iraqi leadership group.

In May, the intelligence division of the Joint Chiefs of Staff circulated a secret document predicting that violence will continue for the rest of this year in Iraq and increase in 2007.

etc etc. more to come!! you can be sure of that.

“Development, Drug War, and Taliban War, have all got to be prosecuted at once and with incredible dedication....”

Well Mr. Smartypants pull up a Lazyboy recliner and make yourself comfortable while waiting for all parts of your incredible plan to come together.
(There is still some room for your Lazyboy right next to all those people that are waiting to do anything about the Islamofascists until things get settled in Israel or the “problem” of CO2 emissions are wrestled to the ground or a bombing takes place in Canada)

In the mean time I say buy up the crop at the source. How much do think that would cost in comparison to the huge amounts currently spent at this end of the problem?

If you don’t like the devastatingly hurtful term “Mr. Smartypants” lay off the use of “rat F*&^”

“These poppy fields have to stop. Not to mention, Jack.”

That’s where it all started. Jack Layton’s rejection by The Poppy Family to become a member of the 60’s folk group has led him to this twisted dream of getting close to the Taliban.

Which way you goin' Jacky?
Can Olivia go too?
Which way you goin' Jacky?
We won’t go with you?

Not gonna miss you, Jacky
And though I'm trying
I'm laughing so bad, Jacky
I can't help crying

When will they finaly spray those poppy fields with out harming the people?

Farmers in Afganistan grow poppies because it is the best paying crop. Ok. So why don't Canadian farmers grow drug crops on a large scale too ?? Like, maybe because it's illegal. Not to mention it's also immoral to ruin kid's lives.

Could a few(lots) Ag-spray planes wipe out the Afgan poppy crop ?? Grow food crops instead. Choke off the Telaban $$, allow Afgans to take back their country from the Drug Lords, make it safer for our troops, reduce the supply of life-ruining heroin on Canada's streets. I may be missing something. Too simplistic ?? Oh, ya. Can just see the Media's headlines;

CANADIAN TROOPS ACT LIKE TERRORISTS, DESTROY AFGAN FARMER'S WAY OF LIFE

The solution is simple: do what socialists do for farmers here in their controlled markets...pay them not to plant poppies...if they do burn the crop and haul the offender off to the corwbar hotel at Gitmo for some agricultural re educating.

People...let's not wimp out here..those poppies are a weapon of war...they cause nothing but human devistain and the feidal lords growing them and refining them know damn well what they are used for.

in the short tem irradicating the poppy crop with put the war lords out of business and starve both them and the Taliban....I don't se any option other than the navel gasing worries about the fate of the scum who grow and process heroine's core crop...summon! they deal in human misery...the best thing for the war and our western societies would be the iradication of the heroine poppy crops.

And if the entire Poppy Crop was successfully destroyed and peace returned to the Afganis, great ? Not so fast, because if one, even just ONE acre of wheat was mistakenly destroyed ?? You got it;

CANADIAN CHEMICAL TERRORIST PILOTS DESTROY AFGAN WHEAT CROP

Cal: Funny post, considering I agree with you... what made you think I was a Laytonite?

Buying up the Poppies:

http://www.embassymag.ca/html/index.php?display=story&full_path=/2006/september/20/dyer/

Just a thought in regards to the statements above about wiping out the poppy fields why don't we just wipe out the market. Drug users are depending on the poppy crop and also on the benevolence of the Canadian left to 'enable' them soooo lets take care of them first and then we will have eliminated the need for the poppies. Short of execution for possession of drugs that seem to work in other countries how about a 21st century 'Botany Bay' somewhere north of Baffin Island. Ship all drug users there for...say five years if they pass blood tests after that then they are allowed back into 'Lower Canada'. We would solve a lot of problems this way, ie. new transport planes for the armed forces (drug users would be parachuted out over Baffin Island, no need to built landing strips) we would solve the sovereignty problem of the north, and we'd save countless billions by not opening safe injection sights. Comments anyone!!

All Afghanistan needs is the equivalent of the Canadian Wheat Board--could be called the Afghanistan Poppy Board, and that would solve all the problems for the poppy farmers--just like the CWB has done for the Western farmer--stable income, thriving market, no grain left in the field--NOT! The only one that makes money from the CWB is the government--so that would be the answer--the Afghan government would be rolling in dough and the poppy farmer would divisify to get out from under the thumb of the government Board.

WHOA! We need to forget about eradicating heroin production and pay them to grow it. Right now, France produces the majority of the Western worlds heroin, USED FOR TREATMENT OF PAIN, and they cannot produce enough medical heroin for the rest of the planet (read third world).

The solution is simple folks. Apply capitalistic theory and buy every scrap of heroin those boys in Afganistan can grow. It will be much cheaper to buy the whole shebang than pay for the enormous failure of trying to eradicate it. Furthermore, once you have bought the production, the Western countries who have bought the dope can either donate it to third world hospitals, or even SELL IT! Turn a financial disaster into a profitable operation while simultaneously keeping Afgan farmers happy and Afgan warlords unhappy!

Man, you right-wingnuts are so full of it. What drives the drug trade is profits. What drives drug profits is prohibition. What drives prohibition is the WAR ON DRUGS. What drives the WAR ON DRUGS is right-wing hypocrisy.

maryjane: What drives the drug trade is people who are dumb enough to take drugs, followed by other people who are dumb enough to give the first bunch of dummies a 'safe' place to shoot up.

I listened to Christopher Hitchens on Hugh Hewitt (as I recall) about 3 weeks ago. He opined that the U.S. should buy the Afghan crop, and use it to distill whatever pharmaceuticals modern medicine gets from it already. Apparently, Turkey is contracted by the American government to grow the stuff for distribution to American drug companies (I stand to be corrected on that last sentence; I seem to remember Hitchens saying it). Only problem is, the growers would THEN be extorted by the Taliban to hand the money over anyway. The one flaw in his argument seemed to me to be that the Taliban et al who commission these growers to grow the junk just couldn't be remunerating them all that much. This all got me to thinkin'...

Perhaps a little bit of Mommy State might go a LONG way in Afghanistan. Here's what I mean. Dole out plots of land to REGISTERED growers, and pay them a wage (a few hundred American dollars per month? Surely the thugs who take the crop now don't pay these poppy growers any more than that... hence the FABULOUS markups in "the street trade". Just ensure the growers get a really nice "pay raise"). If the Taliban extort those poor growers, what'll it net them? A few million per year? Hell, they'll blow it all on Toyotas and ammunition, and at the same time make a bunch of enemies out of the "simple folk" who are just trying to get along. Any unregistered growers with unregistered fields, and it's agent orange for THAT lot.

Does this make any sense at all?

I'd buy the crops up; and fight the drug war at home; and continue to wage war on the Taliban. All three at once... and mercilessly.

Legalizing Cocaine and Opium-drugs has been tried in Europe... does anyone know how successful they've been in getting people off the crap, and are they successful at preventing new addicts. I keep thinking of Train Spotting.

How much do we spend on health care for addicts, much more than for smokers I think. Probably more than the poppies would cost. For years I have been saying that our drug addicts, recreational users and supporters of SI sites are killing our soldiers. Posted that stmt in a Vancouver paper and boy, did I get blasted. Same from TO readers.
Congrats to all those in TO that turned out for the rally.

maryjane-get real
Step 1
penny, I agree with you but I think the Western world should seize the Islamofacist, drug dealers, illegal arms dealers, etc bank accounts in our respective countries.
Step 2
Buy the crop from the farmers at a really good price and pay them to harvest it using the funds garnered from the bank accounts.
Step 3
Burn it.
Step 4
Repeat as necessary.

So, debris, are you advocating prohibition of all drugs, or just a hypocritical war on some drugs? Like Dubya and Harper....

We should do a prisoner exchange. Talibani Jack for 1/3rd Western hostage. Ooops, forget it/ = TG

This month the Republicans tried to kill a Democratic bill that will provide specific funding cripple the Taliban drug trade.

http://tinyurl.com/zox7u

Buy poppy bulbs?

Exchange poppy crop for the foreign aid now going to Afghanistan.

Every bushel of bulbs fed to the incinerator, [at the military base], gets one bushel of foreign aid.

Instant pay-off. No middle men. No hi-jacking. No machine guns. Big heroine cut-back. = TG

Why do junkies not support our troops?

Any white guy found fighting for the muslims shouls be summarily shot in shot.

That's it.

No excuses. No nuances. That will raise the price for their services and make them leave the battle field.

PS: Oh yeah, cuts into Talib weapons purchasing. . and,

Yields some crime relief in the hoods where it gets flogged. = TG

Maryjane: Neither, I've got mixed feelings on the issue and see enourmous problems with each approach... I'm not as sure as you on this ... It's wonderful that you know exactly what to do and exactly what the fall out will be... congratulations.

Sawed Off said.. Why do junkies not support our troops?

Posted by: little_sawed_off_twit at September 30, 2006 06:26 PM

Answer:

Junkies go to state pens.

Junkies join Muslim groups and causes.

Ex-cons, [junkies], on an LA gas-bar robbery rampage were finally tracked down through a dropped cell-phone.

Govt. buildings bomb target plans, explosives and weapons were found at the cell-phone address.

The cons attended a mosque in near by SanDiego.

Sawed Off is asking all the right questions.
= TG

Buy all the Afgan poppies/heroin at a real good $Billion$ price ?? Legally, and burn them. All they can produce. Every year ?? I would imagine there are lots of places in this old world that can raise poppies. Lucrative, plus, plus. Then we would have the same problem in ?? India ? Bangledesh ? Tibet ? Maybe even the Ontario soybean farmer would get into the act. Would be politically INcorrect to favour one country's farmers over another.

As mentioned earlier, I would also support buying the poppy crops and trying to get positive use from it.

I would also support rebuilding the growing of grapes.

At one point Afghanistan had 80,000 hectares of grapes growing for table grapes and raisins.

Buy the poppies and gradually switch to more grapes.

(I attended the troop support rally in Calgary today.)

This is not new, foreign westerners have been there since before 9/11.

hate to break this too you folks, but maryjane has a solid lock on logic on this one. Prohibition simply doesn't work. Want proof that prohibition never works? Why, just look at handguns in Toronto. See?

Oh, OK, the drug thing.

Karzai admitted this week that this is the shame of his nation, and that the fight against the poppy fields is a major priority in defeating Al-Qaida and the Taliban.

Karzai impressed me all to heck, at the White House this week when he asked a reporter questioning the policy of fighting terrorism overseas as to whether she remembered the innocentpeople diving, from 80 something stories at the WTC, to there deaths, rather than being burned slowly and very, very painfully to a crisp...., STONE COLD SILENCE from the press.

Hoax Aware, I usually agree with your reasoning but you are running too fast and far with this one.

The benefit for incinerating poppy bulbs is unique to Afghanistan.

Any other government would have their foreign aid trimmed proportional to any increase in dope cultivation.

Sudden stop! eh? = TG

You gotta trust people to make their own choices, you've got to trust liberty. That is the ONLY rationalization for being in Afghanistan in the first place. If you don't believe in freedom, what in the hell are we doing over there?

Robert in Calgary,

I recognize what you did today. Troop support rally in Calgary. Excellent!

Pat on the back for you and others from this little berg on Vancouver Island. = TG

Too bad Maryjane, your whining carries no weight here . . . try a leftist site. = TG

Unique to Afgan ?? Maybe, but what about the Oil For Food Sacandal ?? Sactions BY the UN were BROKEN by the UN. To help Saddam.

Right again maryjane. Freedom. Trust people. For example, let a bar owner decide whether he will permit smoking in his establishment. Trust him. Trust the homeowner that wants to buy a handgun to protect the family and it's possessions.

I couldn't agree with you more maryjane.

Believe it or not, the thought of spelling out that the UN have no license to this under any circumstance did in fact come to mind.

It would make the Oil for food fiasco look like a Carter peanut fest.

Too obvious. I dropped the thought. = TG

Whats the differnce between this and oil? They both support terrorism.

Here, you will love this . . .

http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/2006/09/thousands-rally-in-lebanon-against.html

= TG

Buying the poppy crops seems reasonable enough to me. But, I'll repeat again that all of the countries with high maintenance heroin addicts need to chip in, not just the US taxpayer on this one.

maryjane - ignore heroin, you're nuts. IV heroin users get AIDS and Hep C over time. Their addiction expenses pale compared to the medical expenses of that reality. Somethings in this life need to remain restricted. Methadone maintenance sounds easy, but has problems too. This is a much more complex problem than your simplistic solution.

the fact completely skimmed over in the debate is that heroin is one of the most effective pain killers invented. this has been known since around the time of the am. civil war when morphine, the precursor to 'h' was all the rage.

the push decades ago to legalize heroin for use by terminal cancer patients continues to be quashed by the moralistic americans who continue to link it with crime. but thats because its illegal!!! the clinical applications await common sense; what intrinsic property does heroin have that makes it 'bad'? its an addictive chemical capable of blotting out sevre physical pain; the latter is most relevant to terminal patients; the former is irrelevant.

but still the stigma continues.

thus diverting the poppy crop to legal legitimate purposes and research is derailed. it would solve a host of problems, and I suspect the farmers would get the same price if not higher thru the effects of a regulated agricultural activity.

aaaaand watch all the vitriol and personal attack gush from the likes of mr texas canukistan.

Hey, stupid, addicts aren't in physical pain where it has been demonstrated medically that addiction to opiates isn't a problem. That's the big point with addiction.

Consider that a personal attack. Your vulgarian qualities, so well documented in earlier threads, leave you open for it.

Again, "schmuck", the "esq", please, get back to your acne management regime, clean your bedroom for mom, get a life, we aren't your friends, cut the dumb snark, and maybe a minumum wage job will come your way.

The question about the legitimate use of the poppy seed has merit. Why do the pharmaceuticals not take advantage of the Afghan poppys to produce morphine?

Anyone who thinks a drug addict became one because drugs are illegal is nuts. Legalization will not stop drug use nor will it stop new people from joining the long slow line to Hell.

Just how many vices do we intend on using for Government profit anyway. Alcohol, gambling etc. Certainly appears they are only successful at extracting money from those endevours.

Burn the fields at one end. Cut off any ability to finance addiction at the other. Make being a addict as ugly as possible. Those who have major addictions are lost. No one recovers from that kind of addiction it just changes to something else.

Fear is the only deterent to addiction.

t. schmuck

Please excuse my tardiness. I’ve been busy putting the crop in the bins. (It’s a dandy!)

“has dubya any time, about anything, in his entire political career, ever admitted making a mistake?????”

Only once, when he confessed that you were his secret “love child”.

Mark M -they don't need to, because synthetic opiates exist and are improving.

Mark M,

The question about the legitimate use of the poppy seed has merit. Why do the pharmaceuticals not take advantage of the Afghan poppys to produce morphine?

You might want to read:

http://tinyurl.com/l5939

Mark M,

The question about the legitimate use of the poppy seed has merit. Why do the pharmaceuticals not take advantage of the Afghan poppys to produce morphine?

You might want to read:

http://tinyurl.com/l5939

Nuts. Legalise hard drugs. That will cut off the money flow to Afghanistan - opiates are inexpensive for those who can purchase them legally. A few addicts in Canada and the U.S. will die of overdoses - too bad. Serve as an example for the others.

It seems to be easy enough to obtain illegal opiates. The great majority of people don't use them not because they can't get them but because they want their lives. The essential economic problem with the "war on drugs" is that effective police action drives the drug prices up, thus making it more attractive to traffick in them.

I really don't think that destroying Taliban and al-Quaeda is possible while prosecuting the "war on drugs."

T. Schmuck: Opiates are derived from the opium poppy. Opium is the dried milk of the opium poppy. It contains morphine and codeine, both effective painkillers. Sure heroin is banned, but morphine and codeine are as common as hen's teeth and perfectly legal. Morphine is incredibly addictive... some say impossible to shed once addicted and only a life of methadone will keep an addict semi-dry. So, the heroin arguement is empty because other forms of heroin are fully available for treatment and for abuse.

In Saskatoon the druggies favor morphine... illegal morphine C/O the gangs that work for the Hell's Angels.

As for me, I am tending ever more to the full legalization of most street drugs, with massive intervention on the street level to provide the crap free and safe. When I look at the cost in robberies, aids, prostitution, murder, and now in Canadian troops, I wonder if it wouldn't save us a whole pile of money and lives. Legalizing dope is an option in the drug war that I'm willing to consider... and yes, it's the socialist solution and I'm usually as rightwing as they come.

Penny: Interesting point... once synthetics like methadone become effective enough, the natural varieties will become obsolete. Methadone is handed out wholesale in Saskatoon... so much for not supplying the druggies. Only thing, I've spoken to many street people who say it just doesn't do the trick like Morphine.

Prohibition doesn't work. Agreed. That said, as thoughtful people above have pointed out, ending the prohibition in and of itself won't work either. It would be only one component of a complex multi-front solution.

In the US, especially, way way way too many no-victim crime perps are in jail for drug "crimes", a very large fraction of whom are poor/black.

People in jail who shouldn't be are understandably angry and resentful, and therefore excellent candidates for recruitment into islamofascism. Talk about a vicious circle.

And just in case -- shudder -- I sound like a liberal-nutter, I think inner city street addicts should be rounded up, housed on large rural acreage under guard and forced into withdrawal while doing chores and receiving counselling.

Tho' as a libertarian, I'm somewhat conflicted in the foregoing paragraph.

All that said, the narrative that drug addicts are helping to kill Canadian soldiers is a bit trite isn't it?

John Lewis. Yes!

Whether they smoke up in a Bangkok slum or shoot up in Saskatoon, the money they pay for the drugs finds it's way into the RPGs and IED's that are killing our guys. In the past it was national donors who paid... now it's our own addicts who pay. And, our addicts get the funds from prostitution and other crime; how ironic.

Rest assured, "Israr Khan was appointed as an additional inspector via a highly competitive recruitment and selection process. He has undergone all the relevant security checks."

Debris Trail - I hear ya, and am conflicted myself. My liberatian instincts say legalize the junk and let the chips fall where they may. Actually, decriminalize is a more appropriate position for me than legitimizing all illegal substances. But, with the junkies with IV use, they cost us plenty with their AIDS and Hep C, and in my perch in psych, trust me, heroin addicts have those diseases in big numbers.

I don't think the Dutch Experiment in legitimizing heroin was a success. My understanding was that it encouraged more addiction because of ease of access. Correct me if I'm wrong. I would endorse from a public health position a clean needles program and Methadone if it was really universally applied and mandated - show up at the clinic for these services or face jail, which brings us back to law enforsement as a necessary tool.

Bottom line, the sad little wasted junkies that I see daily aren't even getting the ramifications of the newly acquired life shortening diseases that they have and pass on to others. Addiction is the override.

There is just not an easy solution to this mess.

"the money they pay for the drugs finds it's way into the RPGs and IED's that are killing our guys. In the past it was national donors who paid... now it's our own addicts who pay. And, our addicts get the funds from prostitution and other crime; how ironic."

Indeed. And the tax money you pay for these useless and stupid wars against drugs and against terrorism (er, that is for oil) causes greater economic dislocation, which causes greater unemployment, which causes greater drug use, which causes greater government intervention to "help", which causes government to hire more bureaucrats, soldiers and police, who cause even more problems at home and around the world, which makes people in government want to do even more to "help", which takes more tax money, which causes more unemployment, which causes more drug use, ... until having set off down the road to "save" Afghanistan and make Afghanis as rich and free as Canadians, you end up making Canadians as poor, enslaved and drug addicted as any Afghani beggar. How ironic!

I don't know the answer either, but if you are going to try to do something about the drug problem, pushers and those profiting from the drug trade should be dealt with severely. In fact, they should be charged with attempted murder; they know that when they deal crack, coke, heroin, etc. that a certain percentage of their customers are going to die because of it.

Since a clear connection can be tied to the drug trade and terrorism, treason could be added on as well.

Go ahead and decriminalize possession, but treat those that profit from the trade with the harshness they deserve.

Ever see an alchoholic zombie? Someone with scratches on his face from falling as he stumbles on gathering empties for the next bottle?

I do not remember ever seeing a pot smoker in that death like position.

Why not sell pot from liquor stores just as booze is so controlled.

Free up armies of men and women to go after the hard drug dealers. Take the profits out of grow-ops and dealers.

Years ago I knew a fellow who liked bright coloured pills. His girlfriend was a nurse at a senior care centre.

She used to sneak the *magic* pills from work. My sense of human nature suggests that this is likely a wide spread practice.

Also, I sometimes notice the odd nerveous young guy with a cell-phone at the druggest counter picking up several prescriptions.

Somehow it seems as though the fun drugs group is far larger than I ever imagined. = TG

The last thing I want to see is Canada involved in is the absolutely assinine war on (some) drugs (WOsD) that is a peculiar perversion of the US. Decriminalization of drugs is the solution and this would bring things back to the way they were in the 1920's when anyone could purchase heroin at their local pharmacy without a prescription and there was probably about as much abuse as there is now. The only effect I can see of the WOsD is that drug prices have steadily dropped and quality has increased to the extent that for many people in Vancouver not long ago it was cheaper to buy heroin off the street than morphine through a pharmacy on prescription.

Opium has a very long history of use in humans and is probably one of the first psychoactive drugs used. People have an inate need to alter their state of consciousness and those who fail to understand this are doomed to an endless battle with human nature. Heroin was initially marketed as a non-addicting replacement for morphine and clinical trials in the late 1800's involved the chemists who worked in the lab testing the product out on themselves and, after these test subjects had no difficulty in discontinuing use of heroin, it was put on the market. Heroin is no more addicting than any other opiate and, contrary to popular belief, most people don't like opiates. Studies in which people who aren't in pain are given morphine result in most people having quite negative comments about the drug. Opiates cause mental clouding and somnolence in the majority of people and euphoria is not commonly described. Opiate addicts do get euphoria with opiates and their neurochemistry is likely quite different than most peoples. There is so much psychopathology present in people who are street heroin addicts that opiate addiction is usually the least of their problems and to use them as examples of what will happen to people if they try heroin reflects an abysmal ignorance of biochemical individuality in neurochemistry.

Recent research has shown that the mu-receptor (which is responsible for mediating the analgesic effects of opiates) has incredible heterogeneity. This, and the individual wiring of pain pathways, explains the immense variability in opiate responsiveness among people and why some people can have a traumatic amputation of a limb and not need any opiates and others who burn their finger and need large doses of opiates to treat what they percieve as intractable pain. Individuals also vary immensely in terms of the amounts of endorphins and enkephalins (endogenous opiates) that their brains produce and alcohol mediates many of its euphoric effects through endorphin release. Long term effects of opiates are physiologically considerably less destructive than the long term use of alcohol and opiates are some of the safest drugs around when used in proper doseages. The main adverse effect of opiates, aside from respiratory depression in overdosage, is chronic constipation and more rapid progression of HIV in HIV+ individuals.

Chronic pain is undertreated in N. America, and even in Canada where medical prescribing of opiates for chronic non-malignant pain is more acceptable than in the US, lots of people with chronic pain are undertreated. There is nothing more hypocritical than people who have high endorphin levels and lack of kindling in spinal cord pain sensory pathways persecuting people who have a different neurochemistry and who need exogenous opiates.

What has always puzzled me is why opiate addicts in Canada don't grow their own poppies. They are very easy to grow and opium poppies grow wild throughout much of BC. The interior of BC has a similar climate to Afghanistan and one would expect large fields of poppies to be grown there, but cannabis appears to be the primary illicit crop. Perhaps it has something to do with the immense amount of work that it takes to make opium. Each poppy head has to be incised and after the sap has dried it needs to be scraped off with each head yielding a few milligrams of opium/poppy. The one factor not mentioned with poppy cultivation is the large yield of poppy seeds that one gets and this is likely an important food crop.

If one wanted to cut down on the amount of money going to the Taliban, I would suggest that people stop driving (unless they can be sure they are buying gasoline derived from Alberta crude) and stop shopping at WalMart and similar discount stores where everything for sale appears to be manufactured by Chicoms. The bulk of oil profits in Iran likely go directly to supporting terrorism and communist China is likely involved in supporting the Taliban an AlQueda as this support is a cheap way of weakening the US.

The last thing I want to see is Canada involved in is the absolutely assinine war on (some) drugs (WOsD) that is a peculiar perversion of the US. Decriminalization of drugs is the solution and this would bring things back to the way they were in the 1920's when anyone could purchase heroin at their local pharmacy without a prescription and there was probably about as much abuse as there is now. The only effect I can see of the WOsD is that drug prices have steadily dropped and quality has increased to the extent that for many people in Vancouver not long ago it was cheaper to buy heroin off the street than morphine through a pharmacy on prescription.

Opium has a very long history of use in humans and is probably one of the first psychoactive drugs used. People have an inate need to alter their state of consciousness and those who fail to understand this are doomed to an endless battle with human nature. Heroin was initially marketed as a non-addicting replacement for morphine and clinical trials in the late 1800's involved the chemists who worked in the lab testing the product out on themselves and, after these test subjects had no difficulty in discontinuing use of heroin, it was put on the market. Heroin is no more addicting than any other opiate and, contrary to popular belief, most people don't like opiates. Studies in which people who aren't in pain are given morphine result in most people having quite negative comments about the drug. Opiates cause mental clouding and somnolence in the majority of people and euphoria is not commonly described. Opiate addicts do get euphoria with opiates and their neurochemistry is likely quite different than most peoples. There is so much psychopathology present in people who are street heroin addicts that opiate addiction is usually the least of their problems and to use them as examples of what will happen to people if they try heroin reflects an abysmal ignorance of biochemical individuality in neurochemistry.

Recent research has shown that the mu-receptor (which is responsible for mediating the analgesic effects of opiates) has incredible heterogeneity. This, and the individual wiring of pain pathways, explains the immense variability in opiate responsiveness among people and why some people can have a traumatic amputation of a limb and not need any opiates and others who burn their finger and need large doses of opiates to treat what they percieve as intractable pain. Individuals also vary immensely in terms of the amounts of endorphins and enkephalins (endogenous opiates) that their brains produce and alcohol mediates many of its euphoric effects through endorphin release. Long term effects of opiates are physiologically considerably less destructive than the long term use of alcohol and opiates are some of the safest drugs around when used in proper doseages. The main adverse effect of opiates, aside from respiratory depression in overdosage, is chronic constipation and more rapid progression of HIV in HIV+ individuals.

Chronic pain is undertreated in N. America, and even in Canada where medical prescribing of opiates for chronic non-malignant pain is more acceptable than in the US, lots of people with chronic pain are undertreated. There is nothing more hypocritical than people who have high endorphin levels and lack of kindling in spinal cord pain sensory pathways persecuting people who have a different neurochemistry and who need exogenous opiates.

What has always puzzled me is why opiate addicts in Canada don't grow their own poppies. They are very easy to grow and opium poppies grow wild throughout much of BC. The interior of BC has a similar climate to Afghanistan and one would expect large fields of poppies to be grown there, but cannabis appears to be the primary illicit crop. Perhaps it has something to do with the immense amount of work that it takes to make opium. Each poppy head has to be incised and after the sap has dried it needs to be scraped off with each head yielding a few milligrams of opium/poppy. The one factor not mentioned with poppy cultivation is the large yield of poppy seeds that one gets and this is likely an important food crop.

If one wanted to cut down on the amount of money going to the Taliban, I would suggest that people stop driving (unless they can be sure they are buying gasoline derived from Alberta crude) and stop shopping at WalMart and similar discount stores where everything for sale appears to be manufactured by Chicoms. The bulk of oil profits in Iran likely go directly to supporting terrorism and communist China is likely involved in supporting the Taliban an AlQueda as this support is a cheap way of weakening the US.

No drugs for anyone. None.
No drugs for cancer patients. None.
No drugsfor pain. None.
Let them die in pain and let God sort them out.
If your grandma is in pain, NO DRUGS! God will take care of that in God's sweet time.
Down with Drugs.
No drugs for diabetics! Insulin is a drug! A foreign substance put into one's body. God will provide! No drugs!
Painkillers from poppies are from the Devil! NO DRUGS!
Let every person die with no drugs in their systems: drugs are devil's work.
From this day forward, all drug companies and those who take drugs shall cease.
God will provide.
If you happened to be suckered into doctoring and sickness and such, fear not! Lo, there is no drug needed but the drug of the knowledge of the Lord, and once you have knowledge of the Lord and the Lord liveth in you, drugs are as poison.
Toss away your puffers; toss away your insulin, toss away your blood pressure pills, for verily the ills of the earth are not your ills; and the medicines of the world are not your medicines; verily you are chosen to be without scar, mar, hinder or illness and need not medicine. Throw away the medicine that is not that from God, and trust in your righteousness, verily you shall be saved
Be drug free when you die, and enter the kingdom of heaven.

I don't see an easy answer. Legalise opium and what's to stop Taliban and AQ thugs terrorizing farmers in order to a) force the farmers to sell the drugs through them or their frontmen or b) simply robbing the farmers after they got paid?

The idea that governments or pharmacutical companies should buy up the crops and either destroy them or make medicine from them ignores the laws of supply and demand. Junkies aren't going to stop craving heroin. As prices rise because the government/drug companies are buying the junk up, some industrious farmers will continue selling some of their poppies on the sly.

NATO soldiers destroying farmers crops won't help win hearts and minds and will push more Afghanis toward AQ and the Taliban.

Legalisation will drive prices down and reduce court and prison costs. However, hospital/medical treatment bills will likely increase. There are moral concerns about democratic governments profiting from their citizens addictions. Although, of course, governments receive revenue from gambling, tobacco and alcohol.

In all liklihood, the status quo will continue. The alternatives, as I see them, are: (a) legalisation and (b) executing drug dealers/users. Both choices are political suicide for any democratic politician who suggests them.

well, living in the prison capitol of canada, we get to see the results of the war on drugs every day...the number of dealers and addicts out on day passes is in the 100's...as well, we get about 20 % hanging around our fair city after release...so, what does this bring????just the scum who deal the dope...u know, bikers et al...something has got to be done about this plague...first of all, we must take marijuana away from organized crime...it is just a huge cash cow for them, as well, it exposes kids who r buying pot to the scum...secondly, no more day passes for third conviction...we have guys who r busted for dope/robberies etc while out on day pass...insane

Left Behind, Taliban Jack, and bin Laden agree:

"Be drug free when you die, and enter the kingdom of heaven."

Get your 72 virgins. ...-

NEW VIDEO SHOWS 9/11 HIJACKERS AT AFGHAN TERROR CAMP

Film of the ringleader of the Sept. 11 hijackers

reading his "martyrdom" while inside Afghanistan

at Usama bin Laden's headquarters has emerged

five years after the Al Qaeda terrorist attacks. ...-
national newswatch

Penny: My wife just sorted me out on the Methadone thing; she used to be a nurse in Vancouver and Edmonton. Methadone is preferred because its so hard to OD with... Heroin and Morphine are not, so authorities shy away from handing out these. She says that in Van. their users needed more and more up to levels that no hospital or clinic would ever hand out... these people are using dosages that would kill most of us. Eventually, they do kill themselves.

I gather from her that in order to keep the junkies happy, they be handing out doses that no doctor in his right mind would prescribe... just another complication.

Taliban Jack, with mousetache, with burka and veil, will lead an NDP reccy; searching for opium/heroin.

Olivia plans to stay home; hold the fort, feed the cats and dogs, etc..

Socialism: An opiate of the masses*. ...-

Layton mulls trip to Afghanistan

VANCOUVER -- Federal NDP Leader Jack Layton, who wants Canada to pull its troops from Afghanistan, says he wants to visit the war-torn country to get a sense of the situation there. ...-

http://www.paulding.net/bin/url.cgi/13422.16

* H/T Karl Marx.

Debris Trail - Most methadone clinics make people come in daily for their dosing. Giving an addict a weeks supply isn't smart unless there has been a record of honest compliance over time. Some sell portions of their allotment on the street.

I'm with Theodore Dalrymple at City Journal, he's a physician writer with many years behind him working in British prisons, just detox these people. In China, it was detox or a bullet and addiction sank to miniscule levels real fast. We've created a whole new expensive industry managing their addiction. Rarely do people die of heroin withdrawl. Alcohol withdrawl is much more dangerous. It needs to be medically managed and is costly. Addiction is costly to society. Somewhere between Chinese Bullet Therapy and our heroin addiction managment industry, there has to be a better solution.

You can always tell about liberals they want to ban guns but allow drug addicts to have clean needles to shoot themselves up full of dope

There is a huge shortage of pain medication in third world countries. In Africa, where AIDS is ravishing the continent, it becomes quite clear that strong pain killers are necessary to help people deal with their pain.

I think this is a much better solution than, say spraying crops and hurting civilians. We can help impoverished people rebuild their nation and fight the war on drugs and terrorism at the same time. Cannabis culture has an extremely good article about this issue.

Link

Penny, hiv and hep c result from iv drug users sharing needles. The drug ingested has no relevance. It could be heroin, it could be methadone. Addicts mainline their drug because they get the biggest bang for their buck that way. This is necessary because of the astronomical value prohibition places on what should be a cheap product. The prohibitive drug policies of Bush and Harper are responsible for the spread of disease, the crime associated with individuals feeding their addictions, the human degradation, the enrichment of organized crime and the Taliban. The odious, vile assertion of this post, that addicts are killing Canadian troops, could not be more wrong. If you want to blame someone, look in the mirror and blame your support of right-wing hypocrisy.

Hey Taliban Jack. I don't recommend you go to Afghanistan, so you can tell soldiers that they cannot "win" and indeed are part of the
"problem." If you go, we might see the casualty list go up by one. (translation - they already believe you are an idiot; don't go over there to confirm this). BTW, maybe you should have gone already to "get a sense of the situation," before shooting your mouth off. Latest poll says 59% of Cdns don't feel we can "win" in Afghanistan. So, we are asking people with no military or nation-building training or awareness to comment on the winnability of that conflict. Why don't we ask them if they like going to the dentist - after all, the battle against tooth decay is "unwinnable," because we don't like novacaine. Unbelievable. Add to that they don't even understand the context of what our troops are doing in Afghanistan in the first place (it's George Bush's war). After all, before we sent troops anywhere, Bin baby hadn't declared war on us. NOT!! Has our cushy life affected our thinking process? Bin laden and the jihadists want us dead, kill countless Muslims, would like to unleash nuclear holocaust. But George Bush is making to world a more dangerous place. If there is an election, and the government is defeated because the Liberals promise to return the troops, I will never forgive Canadians who vote on this basis. First, it will be them who makes the world a more dangerous place, destroying any chance of Canada being a honest broker (that is our tradition, not peacekeeping). Second, they will ensure our soldiers died for nothing. Shame on those Canadians for your ignorance and stupidity!!

Moosehead says:

"We'll do whatever we can to support our troops." ...-

Moosehead sending beer to Canadian troops.

SAINT JOHN, N.B. (CP) - Canadian soldiers in Afghanistan will soon be able to battle the heat of the southern Afghan desert with some beer from the largest Canadian-owned brewery. .......

Moosehead spokesman Joel Levesque said the beer would be shipped to Afghanistan from Canadian Forces Base Trenton in three rounds, with the first leaving in the next week. Another shipment will leave at the end of October, and a third will be sent in November.

The beer will be tapped on special occasions only - and soldiers will only be allowed to enjoy a cold one when they're off duty.

Levesque said military officials contacted Moosehead requesting to buy the beer, though the brewery is working out an arrangement to donate it.

"We're pretty proud of the fact that they're specifically asking for Moosehead," said Levesque.

"We'll do whatever we can to support our troops. We're going to be inquiring if we can donate the beer on a regular basis, and if that's possible we'll certainly do it."

The brewery's employees have also signed a giant poster with personal messages to the soldiers. ...-
canoe news

Sharing needles is exactly what the drug addled do, you really think those folks are responsible enough to keep their needles sterilized or regularly que for clean ones?, dream on,....addiction is now a to death warrant to the most vulnerable, the newest, youngest druggie, someone has to intervene. Do you really think they are keeping appointments with their mental health counterparts? Your misplaced angst is why you are part of the problem.

If you think legalizing highly addictive substances is going to make those needles cleaner, then, you are a fool. You've never worked with addicts, my friend. Ever heard of the phrase "under the influence"?.... reason and good judgement don't exist there. DUI's don't spell it out enough for you. Almost killing someone on the road is punishable, passing on Hep C and AIDS aren't?

"those profiting from the drug trade should be dealt with severely."

Those who profit from the drug trade ... lemme see now, who profits the most from the prohibition on drugs? That would be the government. All those jobs for the police, prison guards, social workers, soldiers, bureaucrats, all the extra tax money that is pulled in through spy operations allegedly intended to detect money laundering, all the bribes, the cool gadgets purchased with confiscated money, the guns, the cars, the planes, the sheer excitement of exercising deadly power over "civilians" ...

If you're going to be logical about this, and not simply go off on hysterical flights of emotion about DUIs and HIV, then there is only one ultimate way in which to proceed with the problem of drug abuse in society: ALL self-prescribed drugs must be banned, including demon rum and killer tobacco. And approximately half of your country will be hired in order to spy on, arrest, imprison and re-educate the other half. I suppose that if they get bored of this, after a while they could switch places and take turns being a stoner/drunk or government goon.

Hey, Jabba, the vast majority of folks can handle wine at dinner and beer whenever, throw in a few joints on weekends, and aren't costly hardcore addicts. Recreational IV heroin is an oxymoron.

Come on, you can do better than that.

We are talking heroin, crystal meth, and crack. If you knew the stats regarding their addictive properties and brain damage with meth, your flippancy would be derailed. Get a grip.

The Canadian War; On/Against Cancer; Narcissism Wins.

The Taliban laughs and laughs and laughs....
...-

Record crowd runs for cure
Calgary Sun - 1 hour ago
By TODD SAELHOF, CALGARY SUN. Rain didn't dampen the spirits of a record number of Calgarians running and walking today to help find a way to beat breast cancer.
Thousands take over downtown TO for cancer run CTV.ca
Campbell joins 13,000 in breast cancer run Victoria Times Colonis

As an RN who has worked in a detox unit, substance abusers of any type are rarely, if ever, cured. They are chronic, thankless, users of everything "good" in society. I worked with repeaters who were perennially sorry for their behavior, but never could get their shit together. Almost all died fairly young...after putting their loved ones, and us, through hell.

Substance abusers are an immense, never-ending financial and emotional drain on families, community resources and health care dollars. In my opinion, a societies resources should be invested in those who wish to LIVE and be productive members of that society.

I would recommend that substances abusers be given one or two trips through the medical system for rehabilitation. Once documented as a habitual abuser, these people should be directed to a government facility where they can legally drink, inject or whatever, to their hearts content. However, first they and their families must sign a waiver in which the substance abuser will receive no further health care other than palliation. Active medical treatment will not be an option.

I realize this is a heartless approach, but in the end the abuser is satiated and society does not have to watch or experience the adverse effects of their incurable habit. Society should not have to pay the enornmous financial cost to "keep" these individuals.

In other words, most of these people want to harm themselves and eventually die, so let them. We'll just provide a safe habitat for them to do so and hopefully eliminate some of the crime they engage in to support their habit.

Needlemeyer,

Count me as totally committed to your view and experience.

The only error I see is your opinion that this approach is *totally heartless*.

Not at all. In terms of tough love, for those who have lost the ability to save themselves, those who regain life would be ever thankful.

Tough it is though. A facility in the remote North where COMPETENT professionals are on duty, [not friends of friends], and where even the air space is closed so no helio drops can be made.

Costly? Yes, but a return of ten times on every dollar.

Canada*s *Siberian* angel. = TG

TG:

Thanks for fleshing out my solution. However, there is fallout. What to do with the legion of socialist do-gooders whose sole reason for being is perpetuation of their parasitic relationship with these societal ne'er-do-wells?

Imagine millions of Taliban Jacks screeching in unison. Plan B, anyone?

This idea of yours is enough to get Harper and the CPC easily re-eleted.

The socialist do-gooders get one way tickets to points east like Darfur and Lybia where their help is really needed.

Return ticket only after one year of service. = TG

needlemeyer57; I agree with TG, it's not heartless. I think it'll only be a matter of time before doctors refuse to treat addicts, much as we are starting to see with smoking and obesity.

As more people become aware of the ugliness of drugs such as meth, with it will come revulsion, disgust, and hopefully lawsuits too. Much the same as we are seeing with cigarettes. Soon, I hope, the effects of meth on our enviroment from dumping waste, the costs to our health care system, and the lasting, if not fatal effects, on our youth; will be horribly evident even to the willfully blind. This, and the evidence from safe injection sites.

There was a story last year about a girl from Biggar Saskatchewan who was suing her dealer. And why shouldn't she? Pushers should be made to pay heavily and should also face civil lawsuits from those affected. How about suing on the behalf of fetuses?

As for the do-gooders, let them whine. Put it to a referendum. I sense law and order is on a lot of Canadians' minds these days . Not sure if you heard the story about the Alberta teen who was convicted of killing her baby this week; the legal experts are stunned. The defense was that she had a hard time with the birth and that's why she did it. No matter that she kept the whole thing a secret and did not seek medical attention. The general consensus I see from letters and callers is the same as the jury.

If Vancouver's Mayor starts giving out free heroin, I wonder how long it will take before the casualties rack up? Maybe just in time for the Olympics?

As for destroying opium crops in Afghanistan, I understood many farmers were being 'forced' to.
Buy them up, destroy them, offer alternative crops, whatever it takes. But back it up with more troops.

Someone said something about Trusting. Just heard iggy say he has to convince Cdns to TRUST HIM.
As for the person who said they have never seen a drug addict in a death position aka an alcholic. Has that person ever ridden in an ambulance in vancouver to see all the overdosed addicts. Canada wants to introduce a 3 strikes your out, I suggest this be applied to all overdosed addicts in our major cities. Rescued by ambulance 3 times within a certain period of time and on the 4th time, you are OUT, no trip to the emergency room. These people are committing suicide, and the Svends of the world think they should be allowed to do so.