I was coming back to work (downtown Montreal) from my lunch about 30 minutes ago when several police cars and an ambulance went tearing through the street towards the Dawson College area. That must be it.

Columbine comes to Canada.

Wrong again, Mikey Moore.

Yep...seems pretty hairy. The metro has been shutdown and evacuated between Lionel-Groulx and McGill. For those of you unfamiliar with Montreal, that's the busiest subway section in the city...the centre of that section is about a block away from Everything is closed off and seems to be contained. I can't give any better news than what you'll get at CTV...all I can say is everyone is talking about it and everyone has their cell-phones out.

From CJAD

3 critical injuries
several minor to severe injuries

Possibly three gunmen

Just tuned into CTV news. They're talking about one gunman. Lot's of rumour.

A guy, Michel Boyer (I think he's a student) seems to be CTV's chief witness. He's motor-mouthing on with a combination of silly emoting, loopy observations and grandstanding. He seems to be really enjoying his 15 minutes of fame. CTV would do well to dump him and find someone else to interview.

Craig Oliver should be on any minute to blame PM Harper's Afghanistan offensive.

The best I can do is CBC Montreal ( sorry, sometimes you just have to go with what's available)

The eyewitnesses seem to be a lot more credible than that guy that JR referred to.

What a horrific situation. I'll say a prayer for the innocent.

"Today's incident is horrifyingly reminiscent of another school shooting in Montreal. On Dec. 6, 1989, Marc Lepine shot 27 female engineering students at the Ecole Polytechnique, killing 14, before fatally shooting himself." ctv.ca ...-

ctv.ca does not mention this fact:

Gamil Rodrigue Gharbi, aka Marc Lepine.

Gamil R. Gharbi changed his name to Marc Lepine at age 13.

Just imagine if the victims could shoot back.

Craig Oliver should be on any minute to blame PM Harper's Afghanistan offensive.

...followed by a police spokesman declaiming that the shooter(s) was of no specific ethnicity, but maybe had a mullet.

I don't understand a young man that would want 15 mins of fame if it involved telling the world how afraid you were and how fast you ran away.
Re: Garbil Gamil: how could a man watch as he shot at young women? I can't imagine anyone getting away with that here.
Were the onlookers, those that did not run away, a bunch of neutered Laytonesque wanna be peace-loving negotiators?
As I boy, I grew up with guns, they wre like any other tool; I like to think that I would react differently if confronted with this type of situation.
My sympathy for the innocents. Contempt for the 19 yo runners.

So much for abolishing these ludicrous gun controls!

CNN has live coverage.

Well folks. It only took less than 2 hours for CBC to get Duceppe on and grill him about the political aspect of this and then droning on about the gun registry.
These people are dispicable!!
Jesus Christ, what is the matter with these people!
( Sorry for the epithet-I'm mad as hell!)

Bushman,

I only wish I were as brave as you are, figting off armed gunmen with a knapsack.

Mudslinging the NDP when 3 people are critically wounded.

Go back to that hole in the bush you crawled out of.

Oh those wacky CBCers.

Anyone know if a similar question was asked of PReston Manning in 1999 after the Taber shooting?

One or two shooters might be just lunatics, but four shooters suggests organization and a coherent (if not rational) motive.

Money isn't it - this is a college. Is the motive politics? Religion? Islamic terrorism springs to mind, of course, but I guess we must wait.

Still not clear if more than one shooter.

10 injured, no deaths.

For those unfamiliar with Montreal, this is at the corner of Attwater and Sherbrooke. Talk about downtown chaos.

CTV reporting two gunmen are dead, one by police and one possibly by suicide: http://canadiancerberus.blogspot.com/2006/09/shootings-in-montreal-update-2-gunmen_13.html

How would having the guns registered have stopped this incident?

To this time no one knows who the shooters are, their background, political leanings or muslim leanings, and Don ask such a stupid question. Typical cbc crap.

Can't be. The Gun Registry was put in place after Poly-Techq. Alan Rock said this wouldn't happen again. Well it just did. The gun registry has been up and running long enough now to have made a difference. TWO $ Billion not enough ??

Those poor students and teachers. A real nightmare. Will affect them for life. They deserve better protection from Nutcases. I am sure our Canadian Justice system will put the PerpeTRAITORS away for good.

Well Maz,, I believe CBC has finally caught up with you.

This is not good.

God Bless You my Canadian Brothers and Sisters.
I hope all goes well for the Parents.

This is just crazy , you cats have a national tragedy going on here , but News Talk 650 still has time for commercials.

Un-Believable.

Everyone should refrain from discussing motive, etc, while the whole thing's still going down.

Don Newman really laid an egg with that question to Duceppe. So premature.

Best to wait for the facts to come in. How can anyone be expected to analyze something they know only rumors about and which is still happening?

The MSM needs to calm down and concentrate on getting accurate information at this point, period.

I wonder if any facts will be withheld by authorities/MSM due to political correctness? WRT the identity of the gunmen, that is.

What's so funny about fighting off an armed guy with a knapsack, esp. if you and your friends outnumber the nut? Unless you're a no-balls coward of course. Wouldn't you rather die doing something more courageous than voting NDP...?

And Moore was always wrong: the first ever high school shooting in history happened right here in Canada, long before Columbine.

College still not certainly cleared. Police send in another swat team to ensure it is clear.

Well, from the claims of the building being just about cleared, it would seem that they think it is almost over. But, I was just downstairs in my building and they are presently sealing up access to the metro. Doesn't look like they think it's over.

Political correctness reigns/rains/reins. ...-

"A suspect has been neutralised, which means he is not shooting any more," police spokesman Ian LaFreniere said."
abc news

While it's better to die on your feet than to live on your knees, that's the sort of thing you have to learn over time. A teenager generally doesn't know that yet, and their first instinct is to save themselves - the basic survival instinct. Don't be too hard on them.

Luckily the neice-in-law doesn't have classes Wednesdays, so she's at home all freaked out doing roll-call amongst her friends ...

According to a student witness interviewed by FOX, he had been in the cafeteria and witnessed a friend shot, he stated there were two police officers in the cafeteria at the time and they did nothing. Is that possible? Unfortunately, FOX didn't follow-up on that detail. Maybe they were rent-a-cops without arms.

It's very sad.

"Sealing up access to the Metro"?

Sounds ominous.

First hand journalism taking place via Wikinews and IRC channel.

Piss away a few more billions on more gun "control".....but try some "retard" control first...starting in Ottawa...

OK...first a disclaimer...What I'm writing here is just what I am hearing on the street...I am not trying to represent it as anything more than unsubstantiated rumor:

I am about 8-10 blocks from the scene. The people on the street are saying that a few police officers were on the scene when the shooting started. The rumor is that there were "a few guys who showed up dressed up in Goth." Something bothered the students who saw them (I don't know if they saw guns or not - it hasn't been mentioned in what I heard) and the police were called. The story is that there were police present - but inside the building when the shooting began outside.

They are now saying that there was only one shotter and that there will be a briefing shortly.

Looks like this one will get blamed on a combination of the Conservative government and Marilyn Manson.

I work at McGill station and the Westbound metro is still closed. Police vans at almost every corner downtown. Depressing day here in Montreal.

police reporting its over, a single gunman.

press conference at 4:20 Montreal time

"Do these people go out of their way to look like idiots or does it just come naturally?"

The only proper response to that type of question is:

"I was going to ask you how many times you beat your wife this week, Don."

Shep Smith at FOX has indicated they are getting a slew of emails from Canadian viewers claiming that the school has a high Jewish population.
Looking for a motive?
He asked that question of the Montreal Newsreader he had on the phone. She responded in the negative.
Jeez, the situation isn't even over yet and everyone in the MSM is trying to find out WHY!
I respect Fox as the best source for news but this is getting too much.
Next there gonna have Layton on CBC looking for the "root causes" of violence in Canada.
This isn't the time to be questioning motives. It's a time to get the folks involved to safety and to catch/shoot/kill/otherwise disable the perpetrators.
The MSM are nothing but whores!
A tragic event reduced to entertainment and political posturing.

My wife's daughter works across the street from the college and say the police shoot the gunman in the head from her office. He had a Mohawk haircut and was dressed in dark coloured clothing.
Thank God there will be no need for a bail hearing.
Nice to see the emergency plan in Montreal working so well.

One shooter killed by police. That poor policeman, he will be vilified for using force. Will he be charged with murder, this is Canada after all. Why isn't talibanjack there to talk and negotiate with the shooters. My 19yr old grandson come home for lunch and watched a bit of this and his comment. Someone acting out Grand Theft Auto. Will this be their defence, and a video game producer charged. Then he went back to work.

Mary: they don't prosecute when the culprit is dead.

I want to clarify my post due to a typo. My wife's daughter SAW the police shoot the gunman in the head from her office.

If any more proof were needed to show that the media are a depraved and mindless pack of idiots, CBC just provided it. They cut to what was supposed to be a police briefing and find the assembled reporters laughing and making jokes while waiting for the briefing to start. What a classy group.

CTV has the Boyer kid in studio now. Any bets that this kid is preparing to study drama or film? Makes me gag.

Kathy Shaidle:

Of course you have proven your comments by living through a similar experience and reacting the way you say.

Some dumbass 19 YO is getting 15 mins. of fame. So what?

Please let's remember what it's like to be that young.

very conflicting reports, CNN several, Ctv.ca 13, CBC.ca 16.
Bryceman: have the police issued any statements?

Actually they had Layton on from some downtown street somewhere.Smiled and blamed it on guns coming from the states.

What a complete moron.

Glad to see we're not politicizing this thing here before we even know who or why.

As for Sheppard Smith's question about the Jewish poulation at the school, I doubt that this was a factor. I can tell you that most anglophone Jewish Montrealers would go to CEGEP at either Marianopolis or Vanier, or perhaps Brebeuf if they study in French, but Dawson is considered last resort.

Its funny they can't give a description whether he was white or muslim, whether all women were shot, the weapon used, like whats the point of a news conference?

How can they not know if they were all women that were shot?

loosers, this happened 5 hours ago.

"Actually they had Layton on from some downtown street somewhere.Smiled and blamed it on guns coming from the states."

Yes. The root cause of any evil happening anywhere in Canada is ALWAYS the Great Satan, The United States.

Next up, Jack Layton blames the US inspired Dewey Decimal System for illiteracy amongst Canada's Northern youth.

That Don Newman is a natural alright!

Thanks Jonesey for clearing that up. I just get so pissed when a tragedy such as this is literally in progress and all the MSM can do is look for reason for it, based on their particular political bent. The CBC, with Layton, I can understand because I would expect nothing less from them, but FOX I would hope would at least wait until the shooting stopped before making a comment.
I emailed a friend at work when this first started. She responded "What are we raising?"
I didn't know whether she was referring to the gunman or the media.
Gotta go take a shower. This is disgusting!

http://hallsofmacadamia.blogspot.com/2006/09/who-was-gamil-gharbi.html

before the inevitable deluge of leftwing lunacy about guns, let's look back at another incident, coincidentally also in montreal.

Layton will of course blame all problems in Canada on the US. He ignores that it is Canadians who purchase and use the guns. In Canada. He also ignores what Canada ships to the US, in the form of terrorists and drugs.

TV is the wrong medium for factual information. TV is a visual medium; its images are not factual but as amorphous as the visual field and therefore, are filled in by interpretation and emotionThe TV reporting on this event is terrible; we have endless hapless news people milking emotions and asking students - 'but what did you FEEL?' And endless hapless students trying to comply with these requests (I felt scared). And we have no hard facts.

But, soon we'll see all the blame shifted to the US, the feds, Harper, Bush or whatever. It's never, ever, the fault of Canadians. Or the gun registry.

Let's not assume that all 19 yo's run;

However, people that put their own safety above all else will run, regardless of their age. People that are taught to be passive will run. People that tell themselves that "it's not my problem" will run. Those that feel no duty to help thair fellow man will run. Those that have been taught to irrationally fear guns will run.

And maybe many good prople would run, maybe I would run; but if I did, I would be ashamed of my (in)actions forever: I would feel that way now, and at 19, which was not all that long ago.

bryanr and all:

The police have issued statements (which you probably all know by now). The essence is that as many as 20 were injured...the police are deferring to the hospitals to confirm numbers. I am hearing of 6 badly injured (shots to the thighs, abdomen, and head). The hospital officials are no elaborating...but they are saying that his weapon was not an especially powerful one.

The stories I am getting are that the police are fairly confident that there was only one shooter. But, they are not 100% sure that they are only after one person (there may be one or more participants - possibly armed - who got away from the scene). I am not sure what they are basing this on.

That is the reason that the metro accesses were sealed off. They didn't want any potential "persons of interest" to be able to blend into the crowd and get away on the subway.

T. I know that, but that was the response of a 19 yr old. Again, will the policeman be charged. I certainly hope not, but in the recent past we have had several RCMP officers charged for using unnecessary force causing death of criminals. During the Columbine investigation they questioned many students who skipped school that day. Will they do that in Montreal. With the complete chaos in Montreal, people running all directions, some thinking it was a paintball gun, others a joke, what would happen if a real terrorist attack happened there. How prepared
is montreal or toronto. My guess, not very, as they are all such loving friendly people no one would hurt them. Just ask Jackal.

To add to what neo and ET above have said; before the gun lunatics worried about duck hunters and inanimate objects project this into a "societal" problem, shouldn't someone ask the question: "Why are so many people *in Montreal* wreaking havoc on schools?"

Thanks bryceman, even my local radio is giving conflicting news on this terrible event. My niece goes to school down there, thats why my main concern appr. it
bryanr

What a sad day for Canadians, my thoughts and prayers go out to the injured and their families.
It's hard to believe what could motivate someone to such an inhumane act.
The inevitable political spin, while inevitable, has started already. Anyone trying to use this tradegy for political gain should be seriously chastised.
Layton is an idiot. I'll predict that the gun used (if it's only one) was either legally purchased, or stolen within this country and it was an SKS.
No amout of legislation can stop this kind of insanity.

My girlfriend was going through there 5 minutes before the shooting. Scary.

It's a total zoo in the area, Concordia University is roped off to as they'd been sending students there.

It sounds like they were just kids begrudged by the conservative overlords or something stupid like that. Looked like goths or street-punks.

Still, Montreal is one of the safest metropolitain areas in the world as far as this sort of thing goes... the homicide rate is tremendously, tremendously low.

Alas.

Kelly: did you just seriously chastise people for the inevitable political spin and then go and make a political comment about this event showing the gun registry and any gun legislation being useless? Did you pause for a while in mid-comment and forget what you had written at the beginning of your own comment?

Just askin'.

Boy. This is terrible. I suggest we ALL wait to see what the investigation turns up before we jump to conclusions. People posting here suggesting the gunman was Arab are just as bad as the media speculation (let us please remember what happened in Oklahoma when everyone thought it was Arab terrorists when in fact it was some right-wing wing-nut who decided to blow up a building and kill so many people). I do not think mass-murder has a race, gender or political party. This is a time for all Canadian to grieve together, regardless of political affiliation.

From the press conference according to CBC:

Police said the motive is unknown.

"There is no racist connotation or no terrorist link as far as we know," Delorme said.

http://canadiancerberus.blogspot.com/2006/09/shootings-in-montreal-update-1-dead.html

Ted
Cerberus
canadiancerberus.blogspot.com

Listening to New940 via Internet. An eyewitness, a young woman with the last name Fernandez, just told a harrowing story live on the air.

A girl was lying wounded on the floor, and another guy asked the gunman if he could take her outside to get help. The gunman asked "is she dead?" The man said no. The gunman then shot her two more times, and said, "she's dead now." Sounds like this is a real, real sicko.

The eyewitness did not describe the shooter. Another eyewitness confirmed the trenchcoat-and-mohawk description, though.

at

I said I thought anyone using this tradegy for political gain "should be chastised". Layton is just first out of the blocks and probably not the last (from either camp)
I never mentioned the registry or my thoughts on it. Read into my comments what you will.
I only said, I believe he is wrong in his prediction, made my own, and lastly stated what I believe is obvious.

If you want to get really ill go to the G&M and read the comments. The first several blame gun control,then Bush gets blamed. One has to scan about 30 before any sympathy is expressed. I forgot, there was one saying we should be vegetarians so there would be no need for hunters. Whats with those TO people.

If there is anything political in this whole mess it is the politics of insanity.
That said Kelly,it won't stop the usual crowd.

Hug your kids tonight.

I would be quite happy to refrain from making comments until the facts are known, too bad Jack! wasn't.

If you want to see an agenda at work please look at the new poll on the CTV website. Keep in mind that the facts they are suggesting are not known yet but they have already drawn their own conclusion, see for yourself.

I do not think mass-murder has a race, gender or political party.

Maybe not organized as such today in Montreal or Oklahoma City, but, it sure had one on 9/11, at Beslan, at Madrid, at London, at Bali, at the Moscow theater, and presently in Darfur and globally pretty consistently everywhere with Islamic terrorists.....

Also, Gayle, there was no widespread speculation at the time of the Oklahoma City bombing that it was the work of Islamic terrorists. It was a little too early, pre-9/11, for that.

Given that almost on a daily basis that the murder and mayhem is Islamic jihadis at play - they gruesomely killed 60+ innocent civilians in Iraq today - it isn't that off of the wall to suspect the Usual Suspects anymore whenever murder and mayham happens.

Actually, ther WAS widespread speculation the bomber was Arab, as this occurred not long after the first attmpted bombing of the WTC.

And it is funny how mass murder has no race when we speak of Montreal, or Oklahoma, but now it does....

How convenient for you.

Personally, I will wait for the facts.

ud513

You know it! My son just got home from school (grade 11). No one had heard about this as yet at his school (BC). We have been looking at possible schools for him down the road and helping him plan for his future studies.
I won't be doing any research tonight.

The police were closing part of the Metro because the school building is connected to it by pedestrian tunnels. I hear the search for other suspects is now complete. Only one shooter, apparently, now dead.

Live blogging from:

"segac's world i know"

13.9.06

1:40 PM
Shooting at Dawson

I was driving home from a trip to the Fine Arts Museum and saw massive commotion downtown near Alexis-Nihon Plaza and Dawson College. Dozens of police cars, thousands of people on the streets, sirens everywhere. I couldn't for the life of me imagine what happened, so I turned on the radio. ...-

http://www.paulding.net/bin/url.cgi/13404.18
(via Daimnation! via Blogging Tories)

Radio Canada in Montreal has reported that one female in her 20s died just before 6 pm.

Bruce I do hope that is not true. Such a thing is too sad for words.

All people should wait and see what the criminal investigaters come up with. Anyone going on a shooting rampage is in a sick state of mind for whatever reason, in this case criminally so. Newsmedia persons should know better than to speculate but they just can't help getting a headstart on the old spin.
It does go to prove however, that if a wacko wants a gun he can get one, registry and rules will not stop them.

The Irony of it all

As the media always trying to brain wash with and says "American Style" and Quebec is so pacafistic against violence.

Well well this headline comes to be
[quote]American style crime in Canada's most Pacafistic Province[/quote]

Dan Matheson was just on Newsnet interviewing a police expert just a little while ago. The last question he asked his guest was a biased one trying to get the expert to admit that long guns are responsible for much of the carnage we see in gun crime and whether or not he saw the Gun Registry as a good preventative tool (paraphrased). Well thankfully the guest didn't take the bait and instead lauded the measures that the Conservative government is going to implement when it comes to crime and gun crime.

Unfortunately, it is true. Two dead including the gunman.

Just heard the CTV commentator introduce Michelle Dyck, student at the U of S, who tells us that the "reassuring aspect" of this is that it "was not a selected group that was shot at". Good grief! Who could possible consider that the "upside"? People are people. So if some men are shot at, that makes it more palatable for feminists? Would it be better, too, if the elderly and children were included in the shooting to make it more egalitarian?

We don't know for sure what type of gun was used (an eyewitness said it was a "machine gun" but that could mean a machine gun, an assault rifle, or a regular semi-automatic rifle with a big clip). But regardless of a lack of information and ignoring the strong possibility that this gun was already of a banned type, the BLOCheads are already calling for a reinstatement of the Long Gun Registry. Why don't think think before speaking, instead of quickly seeking a few cheap political points at the expense of the blood of Canadian students?

To the hive mentality maggot colony socialists, the group is always most important.
Especially if it's one of their pet groups.

Individuals are just meaningless specks in the groupthink world and the CTV/CBC and CP questions and spin are pure illustrations of the contempt that they hold for everyone and everything that does nor conform to their world view.

I guess being in the group "Students Minding their own Business" isn't good enough for the CTV dipshit doing the interview.

Of all the dumb inane brainless questions: the prize goes to Kevin Neuman of Global National. To the Mayor of Montreal - do you think the police were a little hasty in going in and confronting the gunman??????

I guess if Kevin were making the decision he would give the shooter all the time he needed to finish his work without let or hinderance.

How can you reinstate what hasn't yet been removed? Only the collection of fees and an amnesty for those who have not yet registered has happened, the registration still exists.

I don't get why they had to be registered in the first place - the FAC licence was just as comprehensive and it was required in order to purchase a gun. I'm guessing the government thought this would be a cash cow (along with political points) and it turned into a stinking cesspool.

I agree with Liz, all this speculation is just that until there's more concrete info from the police investigation.

Maz, thanks for posting the link to my blog... I'll try to keep up on the story as best I can.

I thought when i saw Duceppe he said this shows the gun registry DOES NOT work.I might be mistaken although i'm pretty sure as i was surprised when he said it.

cbc listener posted this at Stephen Taylor. I think it makes sense.

"Get ready for much more of the same. There is a critical mass of unsocialized human automatons out there, living in virtual reality at their computer terminals, who think a little bit of mayhem might be just the thing. Their emotions aren't engaged. They're amoral, so what's right or wrong doesn't come into the equation. (Using public roadways for personal drag racing, which is maiming and killing too many innocent victims, is part of the same phenomenon.) Yes, Walrus, the right thing to do is weep. This is just the beginning.

"Thank God the Conservatives are at the helm right now.

"For the dead, 'Rest eternal . . . ' For the injured and all the loved ones of those attacked, my sincere sympathy , thoughts, and prayers."

Ditto from me.

Michelle Dyck, student at the U of S, who tells us that the "reassuring aspect" of this is that it "was not a selected group that was shot at"

Yes. It makes us all feel much safer when violence is random and senseless. Ya know, that feeling of control.

By the time I finish off the 40 ounces of Gibsons Finest I've got in front of me tonight I'm pretty sure I'll think of something deep enough to warrant a sound byte on CTV.

Or maybe I'll just puke.

Manbridge interviewed a male student, along with a girl with blue hair. His response to questions were so prepared, and he used great theatrics. However, I am reminded of all the mis reporting of deaths and murders in N.0., that I will wait for all the details. One report said it was all over in 5 minutes, so logic says it was an assault rifle, and the policeman killed him. So, what is it, a 25 yr old in army fatigues or a 25 yr old in black coat and face mask, or a white man as one person said. Were there others that got away. And, why can't we learn his race. The fact they refuse to identify him, other than he was born in Quebec and lived in Montreal and is dead, they should know his racial origin. That would stop a lot of speculation-home grown terrorist lunatic or just plain lunatic. With so many injured and possibly dying, how can one say no specific group was targeted. A specific group was targeted-STUDENTS. One girl said they were outside having a smoke, when the shooting started. Can't wait for the antismokers to say, see smoking is dangerous to your health, or others saying outside smoking is dangerous and we need indoor safe smoking sites, like injection sites. The bluehaired girl said the goths would survive this and their friends support them as they have been thru this before.

http://drhelen.blogspot.com/2006/09/clueless.html

Mrs Instapundit has something interesting to say about a topic which she is definitely an expert on.

How much taxpayers money was stolen under the watchfull eyes of the Lieberals?
$40 million?

Or, if you include the Registry's cost, fifty times $40 million?

Can't see any meaningfull results.Can you?

CTV asked loaded question in web poll. Gets shot.

Those poor kids and their families. And my daughter wondered why, yesterday, when she was an hour late getting home from school & had forgotten her cell, I was freaking.

My heartfelt condolences to the victims and their families, as well as the witnesses. This nightmare will not go softly into the night, but will live with them forever.

I agree with posters who complain about politicians and the media making cheap political points out of this incident. Any politician who attempts to score points out of tragedy, whether it be a shooting spree at a school in Montreal, or the tragic death of an innocent teenaged girl on Boxing Day, is disgusting. Apparently this type of political ploy is fair game for all political parties. Shame...

Looks like Kimveer Gill, the apparent shooter is this case has been hanging out in some particularly hard core Goth and Vampire websites.

Do a google search for Kimveer.

I've cross posted this at LGF.

"Do these people [i.e., Don Newman and his ilk] go out of their way to look like idiots or does it just come naturally?"

It's both - masterfully blended in a sort of holistic and synergistic coming-together of muddled thinking and witless addlepation.

It's horrible what this crazy kid did.
Deepest sympathies.

As an American it's not my place to discuss here what Canada should do in response to this event.
I leave that to Canadians.

As an American I feel I need to correct pertinent misperceptions created the vile Michael Moore.
Just an FYI
Follow this link to find 9 school shootings in Canada before Columbine.
http://tinyurl.com/fs28z

The Columbine High School shootings occurred on Tuesday, April 20, 1999.
Twelve students and a teacher were killed.
There were 24 wounded.
The 2 shooters were also killed.

May 1975: Michael Slobodian, 16, kills teacher and student and wounds 13 others at Centennial Secondary School in Brampton, Ont., before turning gun on himself.

October 1978: 17-year-old student shoots 16-year-old to death at Sturgeon Creek Regional Secondary School in Winnipeg.

December 1989: Marc Lepine, 25, shoots dead 14 women at University of Montreal's Ecole Polytechnique engineering school, then kills himself.

My point is not to get into a CANADA/US spitball fight.
It's that I hate propagandists and their impact.

Like Candace, my heart and prayers go out to the victims of yesterday's tragedy at Dawson College
and their families.

Yesterday morning began as a normal day for these kids and their parents and changed forever a little after 1:00 p.m. These shootings are a parent's worst nightmare. The minute I heard about them, I thought immediately of my own college-aged daughters and realized that at another place, another time, it could have been them.

It's when you begin to imagine one of your own children as one of the wounded or dead that it seems to really hit home.

I have a question: Who is the guy who did it? What's his story? When you look at the boys involved in the Columbine shooting, they both came from outwardly stable two-parent homes. A closer look reveals that they lived in high-end houses with both parents in very successful jobs, BMWs, Mercedes, etc.

The core problem, it seems? No one was home. One mom said that when the boys were working in the garage--making explosives as it turns out--they told her they were working on a science project. If my kids were builing explosives in the garage, my first clue might have been the nitroglycerine they were using. Then I'd make a call to the school to see if using nitroglycerine was acceptable in a science experiment.

Hindsight is 100%, but who was keeping an eye on this killer? Who knew things that probably should have been reported, but they didn't do it?

We're seeing more of this type of psychopath and my sense is that it's in part because there's very little effective discipline with consequences in our schools or in society, in general. Zero tolerance has led, ironically, to more tolerance of anti-social soiciopathic and psychopathic behaviour, with a tendency to ignore escalating unacceptable behaviours, for fear on the part of "officials" of being seen as too overbearing: teachers, police, and law enforcers fit this category. The same people are afraid of being sued by the deviant/criminal, so far from having "safe schools" or "safe streets," we have increasing chaos and violence with less vigilance and fewer crackdowns on deviant and dangerous behaviour.

The CBC radio report I just listened to referred to the shootings as "random violence." This isn't "random violence." There are reasons why our young people are turning to violent video and computer games and guns, and we need to get serious about identifying what the problems are and finding effective solutions.

As a society we're going to have to decide whether "tolerance" and "openness" extend to psychopathic/sociopathic and homicidal behaviours in our young people, often related to parental neglect, or whether we're going to be on the lookout for it and actively intervene before more shootings in public places occur.

We have a choice here. We can either wring our hands and ask "How did this happen?" or we can name the problem--the increasing trend of violent sociopathic/physchopathic behaviours in our young people--and determine to do something about it. It will mean challenging political correctness and what are considered "accpetable" consequences to this kind of behaviour--and what the logical consequences will be if we don't name the disease and attempt to cut it out.

Several published reports identified the gunman as Kimveer Gill, 25, of Laval, north of Montreal. Police would not confirm the gunman's identity

This is an ugly incident and the politicos are already trying to paint it as a political problem/outcome. Lunacy.

Having seen only a few videos of the aftermath I was struck most by the seeming lack of anger. Understandably, many were in shock. But the tears and wailing was missing an important element: anger at the creature(s) who perpetrated this assault.

There is a place for righteous outrage and anger, a demand for punishment. Heartening as it may be that Canadian Police went in as fast as they did, imagine what the outcome might have been had the populace not been disarmed. This creep opened fire outside. Any armed citizen could have brought him down right there.

There have been too many incidents of this sort, not because of a "gun culture" but because of a citizenry dependent on the State for its safety. The State can't do it. The people must.

Enough weeping and "grief counselors".

This is an ugly incident and the politicos are already trying to paint it as a political problem/outcome. Lunacy.

Having seen only a few videos of the aftermath I was struck most by the seeming lack of anger. Understandably, many were in shock. But the tears and wailing was missing an important element: anger at the creature(s) who perpetrated this assault.

There is a place for righteous outrage and anger, a demand for punishment. Heartening as it may be that Canadian Police went in as fast as they did, imagine what the outcome might have been had the populace not been disarmed. This creep opened fire outside. Any armed citizen could have brought him down right there.

There have been too many incidents of this sort, not because of a "gun culture" but because of a citizenry dependent on the State for its safety. The State can't do it. The people must.

Enough weeping and "grief counselors".

This is an ugly incident and the politicos are already trying to paint it as a political problem/outcome. Lunacy.

Having seen only a few videos of the aftermath I was struck most by the seeming lack of anger. Understandably, many were in shock. But the tears and wailing was missing an important element: anger at the creature(s) who perpetrated this assault.

There is a place for righteous outrage and anger, a demand for punishment. Heartening as it may be that Canadian Police went in as fast as they did, imagine what the outcome might have been had the populace not been disarmed. This creep opened fire outside. Any armed citizen could have brought him down right there.

There have been too many incidents of this sort, not because of a "gun culture" but because of a citizenry dependent on the State for its safety. The State can't do it. The people must.

Enough weeping and "grief counselors".

Kate, sorry about the multiple posts. Yeesh!

If i remember correctly, the killing in alberta in which a family was wiped out has a tie to this one. The perpetrators in both instances spent time on a website called vampire something ot other.

Maybe the police or some responsible public agency should be monitoring these vampire/Goth sites and doing some investigating into the dangerous kooks doing the postings. It seems unbelievable to me that Kimveer Gill could be posting such hate-filled and threatening rants, with accompanying photos, and have garnered no attention whatsoever.

I agree with benning. Enough, already, with the grief counsellors. Canadians have got to wake up, smell the coffee, get off their butts, and KICK ASS when it comes to this stuff. Kimveer Gill was BAD NEWS, and who was paying attention?

Let the spin begin! Already the MSM is putting spin on this tragic event. Greg Weston via Canoe.ca has the Lepine similarity angle (from his viewpoint): "...an ordinary-looking young white guy from a middle-class family walked into..." What ever happened to Gamil Gharbi from that dysfunctional poor household?

The icing on the cake though is the last paragraph.
"After more than six hours of silence on yesterday’s tragedy, Stephen Harper’s office finally issued a written statement last evening condemning this “cowardly and senseless act of violence.” "

So PMSH should have said something before he knew that there were 1, 2, 4 shooters, injuring anywhere from 6 to over 20 before escaping via the Metro or whatever. Does he not realize that unlike the MSM, the PM gets the facts before he speaks.

Bourque has a link to Kimveer Gill's web page at vampirefreaks. Click on view gallery to get the thoughts of this guy.

BTW better hurry I don't expect the page to be up much longer.

The registry has a perfect track record of not solving or preventing a single incident of gun violence.....as long as everyone is speculating, I will make an educated guess and say this crime was linear with all the others that go unhindered by a duck gun registry.

BTW: For all the delusional cretins that still think am incomplete and error-ridden database of honest people's duck guns will stop nutters, I will be back here rubbing your stupidity in your face as the facts on this mutt's access to guns comes out......count on it.

Of course, I have no way of knowing for sure if it is the case here...but I have known 3 "Gill" families in my travels (all unrelated to each other). They were all from India and (maybe coincidentally) all of the Sikh religion.

If this is the case here, it should put an end to the idea of political motivation. Although, I guess that should already be clear by now. But, you never know with some.

Texas said: "Let the spin begin! Already the MSM is putting spin on this tragic event. Greg Weston via Canoe.ca has the Lepine similarity angle (from his viewpoint): "...an ordinary-looking young white guy from a middle-class family walked into..." What ever happened to Gamil Gharbi from that dysfunctional poor household?"

The media are on trial here not the dead nutter we know nothing about....many of them will be in deja vu rapture recalling the heady days when the MSM couls create a national panic and force the government into making costly placedo legislation....ahhhh yes back in the day.

I'm watching to see if the impact of the blogosphere will tame the roaring sensationalism and foamy mouthed partisan spin on the MSM and help the public retain rational perspective.

So far we have the police story that they chased this guy into the school from off the streets where they spotted him carrying a gun in the open....they acted swiftly in neutralizing his threat and saved many lives....this is a glowing reminder to the public that a gun in the right hands saves lives....which is in vast contrast to the dyslexic navel gazing I'm hearing from the MSM....it's up to the blogospher to clean up this pathetic media act of rolling in blood for fun and profit.

WL Mackenzie Redux if it's like marc Gharbi will we find out the truth on page 50 of the star 10 years later?

How many other Media outlets knew and hid said information? which is scary to say outlets are worse than the star.

PS We need a goth registry,

"Of course, I have no way of knowing for sure if it is the case here...but I have known 3 'Gill' families in my travels (all unrelated to each other). They were all from India and (maybe coincidentally) all of the Sikh religion."

"bryceman":

You are correct.

Though I rather suspect the Sikh connection is entirely immaterial here. The sad truth seems to be that this fellow was clearly disturbed and delusional.

Very tragic.

Yeah, I was a little surprised to read that Greg Weston column this morning, he can be a pretty good columnist sometimes but he was either ignorant or dishonest with that one. It's pretty obvious Gharbi/Lepine was raised by a brutal wife-beating moslem immigrant from Algeria who programmed him to hate women at an early age. I can even take the analysis further - in 1989 that very confused young man might have explored his "roots" and found that, at the time...

"turmoil in Algeria is encouraging the spread of an international form of Islamism that threatens to polarize rather than unite a divided society. The Islamic Salvation Front emerged from the Oct 1988 street demonstrations with the largest constituency, later establishing itself with an overwhelming victory in the Dec 1991 elections"

He was ahead of his time, he'd be in an Al Qaeda cell today.

Greg Weston via Canoe.ca has the Lepine similarity angle (from his viewpoint): "...an ordinary-looking young white guy from a middle-class family walked into..." What ever happened to Gamil Gharbi from that dysfunctional poor household?"

Not that it makes any differance into this unneccesary tragedy but he looks to be of indian heritage,not white as reported by Weston and the other msm cronies.

JJM:

Yes, absolutely. I don't think ethnicity or religion has anything at all to do with it. I was really just responding to the assertion being made by some that it was a "white guy". I was only suggesting that it might not be...but there is still nothing more to the story than a disturbed individual (i.e. nothing political).

Sad and tragic. My heart and prayers go out to the family and friends of the victims. All Canadians I'm sure are shocked and dismayed that this could happen (again) in our country.

Maybe its time to make sure that those dangerous Saskatchewan farmers have their guns, not registered, but confiscated! If we do that then for sure these kind of atrocities in our Montreal universities will never ever happen again.

The first thing that strikes me about Kimveer Gill is his age. He's 25 - a little old to be doing the Goth gig and high school raging hormones defiance behavior. The Columbine kids were 14, 15, 16 at most. Very strange.

You've got to wonder where the rest of his family is in this picture. Where was he keeping his semi-automatic in the house? Another clueless or in denial family?

Gill, who is known to other users on the website as Fatality666, describes himself as Indian, 6-foot-one, who was born in Montreal on July 9, 1981.

Yes to a Goth registry: I wait with baited breath to hear the link to this possible India Shiek conection to Air India. Why do they continue to hide the fact that the murderer of 14 women in Montreal was an Algerian who changed his name. Why did it take so long to identify Gill as a non-white. By the refusal of the media and police to identify him as a non white, those of us with intelligence knew this to be so. Political Correctness is just an excuse to not tell the truth. I am glad our PM waited to comment instead of the crap coming out of the other leaders within minutes of the tradgedy. How about a registry for reporters and commentators who distort the truth.

Update on his gun: in the pictures he is seen holding a Beretta CX4 Storm which is essentially an auto-loading 9mm pistol with a legal carbine length barrel and a pseudo bull-pup styled stock...legal for sale in Canada.../sole purpose would be self defense or law enforcement...the CFC recently banned the 10 round mags these mini choppers use because they are not pinned to restrict capacity to 5 rounds....so the CFC/police treated this gun as a legal unrestricted long gun with an illegal magazine....we are told he had it legally registered.

As a long time handgun owner/comp shooter I can state that this guy was given a free ride as there are damn few of these CX storms out there registered...where the hell was the CFC and the cops ??? they should have been knocking on his door demanding surrender of the magazine ( if unaltered) or demanding surrender of the gun pending compliance...the system let us down again...these gun laws were in place before the registry and they were not enforced and particularly in Quebec....where all the serious nutters seem to get firearms permits from police in spite of obvious backgrounds of instability and violence.

For the particular rifle shown on this wingnut's page, it would be restricted, the same as a handgun. However, there ARE versions of this rifle with a longer barrel that are considered non-restricted, so they could conceivably be used for hunting small game or varmints (these rifles are chambered in pistol calibres like 9mm Luger and 45 Auto). As to the magazine issue, this shows another aspect of the craziness that pervades these laws; a CX4 magazine (built specifically for that rifle) must, under Canadian law, be blocked or pinned so that it can only take 5 rounds. However, the rifle was built so that it could accept the same magazines as the Beretta 92/96 series of handguns, which are allowed to hold up to 10 shots. So, depending on which of the two identical magazines you have, you are allowed to have either 5 shots or 10 shots.

In Muslim and Islam theology, Azrael is the Angel of Death.

This guys name was Kimveer Gill, and on his website he called himself the "Angel of Death."

Now , the only way the Government is gonna confiscate my guns is from my cold dead fingers.

This appears to be unreported elsewhere (apologies for length): it is a post in french about Gill from what appears to be a friend, from Dec. 2004. I ran it throught Babelfish to translate it and edited a bit for clarity:

"Thank you. I spent three delirious weeks with Kimveer, who is a Quebecer whose PARENTS (subtle note with the reticent people to integrate the "immigrants of second generation" *) originate in India. We joyously jumped a collective lead to protect us from the oppressive work environment imposed by our temporary colleagues in this marvellous company which manufactures luxury floors.

By leaving the company, I did not even recover one of the gigantic boards intended for the rejects (which are splendid and which couteraient you a tenth of your wages the unit) so much I was in a hurry to leave. Especially for you Kim: (hey, could you get me one of these gigantic boards we moved the other night before leaving?) * An immigrant of second generation is a person who was born in a country but from which the parents were born elsewhere. Of or education and culture of the child generally different (to differing degree) from that of people of the country whose geneology goes up to Noah. Numbers these children are bilingual, certain (as me) are unilingual language of the country where they were born.

But certain reducing heads want to qualify them immigrants (immigrant from where, belly of our mothers?) rather than of citizen of the country, which makes it possible to take a step in direction of - why not, in the best of the cases - expulsion the day or the country votes laws which make it possible to return the immigrants of the country. In the case of Kimveer, although it always lived in Montreal and that all its culture is Quebec (english-speaking, detail ô how much important), that would make it possible to say that it is hindu of second generation. And to treat it as such if a racist government were born. A choice of words fuller of consequences than it does not appear to with it, and which underlines weaknesses of the process of integration (go, say of the two edges, the country and the immigrants).
"

http://216.109.125.130/search/cache?ei=UTF-8&fr=sfp&p=Kimveer+the+destroyer&u=zeugme.canalblog.com/archives/satisfaction_du_visiteur/p10-0.html&w=kimveer+destroyer&d=XbIjkCQ8NTr5&icp=1&.intl=us

I don't think Gill liked Jews and/or Christians very much, as evidenced by the "Noah" comment.

This appears to be unreported elsewhere (apologies for length): it is a post in french about Gill from what appears to be a friend, from Dec. 2004. I ran it throught Babelfish to translate it and edited a bit for clarity:

"Thank you. I spent three delirious weeks with Kimveer, who is a Quebecer whose PARENTS (subtle note with the reticent people to integrate the "immigrants of second generation" *) originate in India. We joyously jumped a collective lead to protect us from the oppressive work environment imposed by our temporary colleagues in this marvellous company which manufactures luxury floors.

By leaving the company, I did not even recover one of the gigantic boards intended for the rejects (which are splendid and which couteraient you a tenth of your wages the unit) so much I was in a hurry to leave. Especially for you Kim: (hey, could you get me one of these gigantic boards we moved the other night before leaving?) * An immigrant of second generation is a person who was born in a country but from which the parents were born elsewhere. Of or education and culture of the child generally different (to differing degree) from that of people of the country whose geneology goes up to Noah. Numbers these children are bilingual, certain (as me) are unilingual language of the country where they were born.

But certain reducing heads want to qualify them immigrants (immigrant from where, belly of our mothers?) rather than of citizen of the country, which makes it possible to take a step in direction of - why not, in the best of the cases - expulsion the day or the country votes laws which make it possible to return the immigrants of the country. In the case of Kimveer, although it always lived in Montreal and that all its culture is Quebec (english-speaking, detail ô how much important), that would make it possible to say that it is hindu of second generation. And to treat it as such if a racist government were born. A choice of words fuller of consequences than it does not appear to with it, and which underlines weaknesses of the process of integration (go, say of the two edges, the country and the immigrants).
"

216.109.125.130/search/cache?ei=UTF-8&fr=sfp&p=Kimveer+the+destroyer&u=zeugme.canalblog.com/archives/satisfaction_du_visiteur/p10-0.html&w=kimveer+destroyer&d=XbIjkCQ8NTr5&icp=1&.intl=us

I don't think Gill liked Jews and/or Christians very much, as evidenced by the "Noah" comment.

SDC said: a CX4 magazine (built specifically for that rifle) must, under Canadian law, be blocked or pinned so that it can only take 5 rounds. However, the rifle was built so that it could accept the same magazines as the Beretta 92/96 series of handguns, which are allowed to hold up to 10 shots. So, depending on which of the two identical magazines you have, you are allowed to have either 5 shots or 10 shots."

The inside scuttlebutt from the CFC was the storm was on its way to going to the prohibited list because of the magazine issue....still with the few of these out there I'm surprised CFC did not send the cops knocking on doors looking for pinned mags and confiscating where the compliance was not there.

Maybe the money the duck gun registry is sucking from police resouces precluded the cops doing this for the CFC....although they were fast enough to jump on section 12(6) handgun owners...at any rate the system to get one of this nutters gun and to revoke his PAL was there and not enforced.

Bob, did you save the original french text? The link is already dead.

The original page was dead prior to me posting from google cache, here is the original text:

http://216.109.125.130/search/cache?ei=UTF-8&fr=sfp&p=Kimveer+the+destroyer&u=zeugme.canalblog.com/archives/satisfaction_du_visiteur/p10-0.html&w=kimveer+destroyer&d=XbIjkCQ8NTr5&icp=1&.intl=us

14 décembre 2004
Kimveer the destroyer

J'espère que vous me pardonnerez ça, mais il ne faut pas oublier ses compagnons de galère :

GO KIMVEER, GO !

Merci.

J'ai passé trois semaines délirantes avec Kimveer, qui est un québecois dont LES PARENTS (note subtile aux personnes réticentes à intégrer les "immigrés de deuxième génération" *) sont d'originaires d'Inde. Nous avons joyeusement sauté un plomb collectif pour nous protéger de l'ambiance de travail opressante imposée par nos collègues temporaires dans cette merveilleuse compagnie qui fabrique des planchers de luxe. En quittant la compagnie, je n'ai même pas récupéré une des gigantesques planches destinées aux rebuts (qui sont magnifiques et qui vous couteraient un dixième de votre salaire l'unité) tant j'avais hâte de partir.

Especially for you Kim :
(hey, could you get me one of these gigantic boards we moved the other night before leaving ?)

* Un immigré de deuxième génération est une personne qui est née dans un pays mais dont les parents sont nés ailleurs. D'ou éducation et culture de l'enfant généralement différente (à des degrés divers) de celle des gens du pays dont la généologie remonte jusqu'à Noé. Nombre de ces enfants sont bilingues, certains (comme moi) sont unilingues de la langue du pays où ils sont nés. Mais certaines têtes réductrices veulent les qualifier d'immigrés (immigrés d'où, du ventre de nos mères ?) plutôt que de citoyen du pays, ce qui permet de faire un pas en direction de - pourquoi pas, dans le meilleur des cas - l'expulsion le jour ou le pays vote des lois qui permettent de renvoyer les immigrés du pays. Dans le cas de Kimveer, bien qu'il ait toujours vécu à Montréal et que toute sa culture soit québecoise (anglophone, détail ô combien important), cela permettrait de dire qu'il est hindoux de deuxième génération. Et de le traiter comme tel si un gouvernement raciste voyait le jour. Un choix de mots plus lourd de conséquences qu'il n'y parait, et qui souligne les faiblesses du processus d'intégration (allez, disons des deux bords, du pays et des immigrants).

Posté par zeugme à 21:04 - Satisfaction du visiteur - Commentaires [0] - Rétroliens [0] - Permalien [#]

Judging from the pictures of this self-involved basket case, I'd say there's another spoiled- rotten, aimless, useless, pos with nothing but time and money on his hands.

What a waste.

Too bad that @sshole got to spread his misery around innocent peoples' lives.

The Globe & Mail's web poll also asked a loaded question. (CTV the other) They got shot too. Tried to skew the poll results by using "effective" gun registry. I quess they think Alan Rock's $2B waste was not effective.

Apparently, there is another Montreal website hosted by another whack job that should be investigated. I sure hope the cops look into that one before he goes off the deep end and tries the same thing.

the picture accompanying the story in my paper shows the victims fleeing with their fingers locked together of the top of their head.

lemme guess, the cops told them to come out of the building like that.

and here I thought that humans are built to swing the arms when walking and running. kinda like all those record breaking dashes in the olympics. havent seen one do it yet with the hands on top of their head.

bottom line, and typically, the cops were protecting themselves over the safety of the fleeing victims, instead of allowing the victims to drop their hands and gain speed running. they demand the victims 'come out with yer hands up' instead of running like hell arms akimbo in the normal manner.

very typical cop response. put their own safety ahead of the citizen.

Disclaimer - I'm a lefty, most of the time.

I'm sad to see some people breathlessly hoping this was Islamic terrorism.

Very few seem to have much to say in condolences, just how much they hate the CBC.

Stephen Harper continues to act like a decent fucking prime minister, proud he is in office with comments like he made on Sept. 11 and last night, especially contrasted with Jackass Layton who should have kept his damn mouth shut but couldn't help yapping about guns and political reasons. What a joke that guy is.

This is nothing more than a sad kid who went too far down the wrong path in his mind, and now so many people's lives are forever changed. Glad they got him in the head.

Angryflower wrote, "I'm sad to see some people breathlessly hoping this was Islamic terrorism.

"Very few seem to have much to say in condolences, just how much they hate the CBC."

What a lousy precis (French word) of this thread. (Angryflower probably didn't have to make concise condensations of long prose passages at school. Too bad.)

But I do agree with part of this person's post.

"Angryflower probably didn't have to make concise condensations of long prose passages at school."

No, but I did have to write an essay on Riemann Sums. That's about as wordy as it got.

Imagine stepping into a combinatorial math class and being told most of your mark depended on an essay.

Sweet!

/wasn't so sweet after all, and I lost the ability to do basic arithmetic after it

I'd like to add, (heh), that I really hope our side has figured out the difference between gun enthusiasts and farmers, and outlaws, and every gun law on the planet isn't going to stop events like this. He could have used a slingshot?

I hear you, Angryflower. An 11 year old student of mine had a really mean looking sling shot in his backpack the other day. I knew because another student said he'd been threatened. So, what happened? I told the VP. The sling shot was temporarily confiscated.

Board rubric? Inform the police. File a report. Suspend the student. Did any of this happen? No. ("Mitigating circumstances," said Admin. I guess they meant this kid's thoroughly irresponsible mother.) That's how the educational system keeps our children safe.

One of the reasons that totalitarian gun laws have been so easily passed in Canada is that many shooters are too ready to agree to restrictions on firearms that they don't have or don't like. Specifically, I refer to WL Mackenzie Redux's comment regarding the CX4 as "sole purpose would be self defense or law enforcement". The CX4 is not a gun that I would get, but if someone wants a CX4, then they should be free to own one. It probably would be fine for plinking, but not very usefull for self defence in the bush with the very underpowered 9 mm cartridge, and as we've just seen in Montreal, not a particularly effective antipersonal firearm. I don't know of any jurisdiction where a 9 mm cartridge can be legally used to hunt deer which are about the same weight as people. My personal preference is for the M1 Garand, despite its weight, in the bush when I worry about encountering bears.

The reason that there haven't been any raids over magazines is that this whole area of the law is so muddled that the cops probably figure they have better things to do than get their cases thrown out of court. While technically posession of rifle magazines holding >5 rounds is illegal, this is only if the magazine is assembled and if there are no exceptions for a particular rifle. It is perfectly legal to posess 30 round AK mags as long as one stores the magazine in pieces. I've seen AK mags for sale at gun shows in Canada (in pieces of course), but it's far cheaper to buy them in the US. If one owned both a CX4 and a 9mm Beretta pistol, then there is absolutely no way anyone could be prosecuted unless they happened to have a loaded 10 round mag in the CX4 when the cops showed up. Then there are such anomalies in the law like the 8 round M1 magazine capacity (just try putting only 5 rounds in an M1 clip and loading it into the rifle) and the 10 round magazine capacity on Lee Enfields. Magazines that are modified to smaller capacity are trivially easy to restore to full capacity which takes only a minute or so with a hacksaw to get 5 round M14 mags back to their designed 20 round capacity. Fortunately for a lot of people, Gill didn't use an M14 in his rampage as if he did the body count would have been considerably greater.

What I'd really be interested in finding out if Gill's 2 references that are required for his FAC were contacted by the police. When I renewed my FAC in 1996 both of my references were contacted by the police, but since then it appears that this practice has stopped. I've never been called about the people whose FAC applications I've been a reference for and my last FAC renewal (I guess it's now called a PAL) went through with none of my references being called. I get called routinely now about peoples passport applications that I sign, but no one that I know of who has put their name down as a reference on someones FAC application has been contacted by the police in the last 6 years. Makes one wonder about what the $2+ billion bought with the gun registry (my guess is that this was a liebral ploy to siphon off taxpayers money to their friends).

About the only good thing about this episode is that the police managed to shoot this asshole fairly quickly and the taxpayers have been spared the millions of dollars it would have cost to incarcerate him had he lived. Of course to compute the savings, one first has to subract the $6,000,000 value of his life from that amount (Miller, TR. Costs associated with gunshot wounds in Canada in 1991. Canadian Medical Association Journal. 153(9):1261-1268 (1995)). I'm not sure how much TR Miller thinks that Gill's life was worth in 2006 dollars.

Curious how the MSM is seeking out inanimate objects to blame for this event whereas in any complex system, such occasional severe malfunctions of individual subunits are to be expected. Far greater death tolls from bus crashes not that long ago seem to have resulted in no debate about whether we should ban buses and whether puttting so many people at risk in a single vehicle should be allowed. Similarly, airline pilots who decide to kill themselves (and incidentally all of their passengers) seem to get very little publicity (the last episode I recall is that of an Egyptian airliner that crashed into the ocean and all evidence pointed to the pilot deliberately doing this). If Gill had chosen to drive a large truck into a crowd of students at the same school killing many more of them than he did with a rifle, this probably would have rated only a few seconds on the national news. I suspect this is due to widespread hoplophobia in the MSM and the total lack of imagination of most reporters who are incapable of comprehending that in many situations a motor vehicle is a far more effective murder weapon than a firearm.

"...a "law student"?

"A university spokesman said the timing of the attack — only a day after a gunman went on a deadly rampage at Montreal’s Dawson College — was exceptionally poor." [sic]*

Law student charged in drive-by shooting | September 15th, 2006

A University of Ottawa law student was arrested Thursday after a man in a car fired a pellet gun into a crowd at the university. ...-
jacks newswatch

*Link goes to ...... story by CBC news, Canada's National News Source.

Kimveer Gill was a mentally sick individual. He sought acceptance in cultures where he could and Goth culture tries to be very accepting of people for the precise purpose of preventing people from becoming so disenfranchised or disconnected from society or reality, that they fall. This person was a fallen soul. He was full of hate. Kimveer looked for avenues to placate these feelings.. such as video games or music.. This did not work, because Kimveer Gill was sick. A mentally sick person is not a product of the culture they hide in. Charles Manson was not a hippie, Charles Whitman was not a conservative christian. Ted Bundy was not a yuppy. These people hide where they think they can dissapear, or in a place they find the most empathy, or in a place they feel they are perceived as normal.. But make no mistake about it... these people are sick in the head and in the heart and in the soul. No music, nor club, nor bands nor governments nor schools can fix what medicine and Doctors are still struggling to understand and cure.

Kimveer Gill was a mentally sick individual. He sought acceptance in cultures where he could and Goth culture tries to be very accepting of people for the precise purpose of preventing people from becoming so disenfranchised or disconnected from society or reality, that they fall. This person was a fallen soul. He was full of hate. Kimveer looked for avenues to placate these feelings.. such as video games or music.. This did not work, because Kimveer Gill was sick. A mentally sick person is not a product of the culture they hide in. Charles Manson was not a hippie, Charles Whitman was not a conservative christian. Ted Bundy was not a yuppy. These people hide where they think they can dissapear, or in a place they find the most empathy, or in a place they feel they are perceived as normal.. But make no mistake about it... these people are sick in the head and in the heart and in the soul. No music, nor club, nor bands nor governments nor schools can fix what medicine and Doctors are still struggling to understand and cure.

I just want to say that I feel very sad for those who have to go throuh this. I think this guy was just a retard. For those out there blaming the Sikh people, please try to understand he was not in any way a true Sikh. He did not listen to Indian music or act like one. so please say as many bad things about this man you would want, but do not bring Sikhism in this. He was a sick man and I just feel sorry for his parents and mostly everyone that have to go throuh this.

I just want to say that I feel very sad for those who have to go throuh this. I think this guy was just a retard. For those out there blaming the Sikh people, please try to understand he was not in any way a true Sikh. He did not listen to Indian music or act like one. so please say as many bad things about this man you would want, but do not bring Sikhism in this. He was a sick man and I just feel sorry for his parents and mostly everyone that have to go throuh this.

t. schmuch esq. wrote "the picture accompanying the story in my paper shows the victims fleeing with their fingers locked together of the top of their head.

lemme guess, the cops told them to come out of the building like that.

bottom line, and typically, the cops were protecting themselves over the safety of the fleeing victims. very typical cop response. put their own safety ahead of the citizen."

Are you kidding me?? Let's put that comment into perspective. While the chaos of this tragic event was unfolding, these 'selfish cops' were running INTO the school, TOWARDS the gunman...or for all they knew at the time, group of gunmen!! Keep in mind...these are regular, every day patrol officers, not a heavily armed SWAT unit who were prepared for the incident.

While the terrified mass of students exited the school in what I can only imagine would be a state of sheer panic and confusion... these 'selfish cops' were entering into a situation in which they did not have the luxury of knowing exactly what they were running into!

That's right, let me say that again...While everyone else was running AWAY (as they should have), these officers - who by your allegations are only worried about their own safety above others - were running TOWARDS the shooting. Thank God they were there and reacted as quickly as they did!!

Of course they are going to take some safety precautions with the people running around from the school, that's what they are trained to do!!! Think about it...if you are running out of the school and your hands are on your head, common sense says to the officers arriving outside that you don't have a CX4 Storm concealed in your hands and you are not a threat to shoot anyone...because at this time remember, no one knows exactly how many shooters there are in the school!!!

By the sounds of it, schmuck, you have had a few run-ins with these 'selfish' cops in the past and have a bit of a tainted perspective on the gravity of this whole situation. This is not about what the officers did, its about what one sick, twisted, mentally perverse individual did to invoke fear and grief on not only a community, but a whole country.

thats right willy. THEYRE PAID TO DO THAT.

theyre not paid to put CITIZENS at risk ALSO.

and I have seen, heard about and had cops do this thing, so it is a pattern and needs to be reported as such.

they dont care about the truth, just persuing their agenda.

it took me 8 fucking months to get an answer to the question: if someone is assaulted, are they supposed to stay at the scene or are they allowed to leave?

if you stay and the fight resumes and it becomes necessary to flatten the prick to prevent a 3rd attack, the cops will arrest you for assault on the grounds you shouldacoulda just left; but if you leave to prevent further conflict, they accuse you, as they did me, of trying to 'get away'. you cant win with those assholes.

the cops in canada are the single WORST hazard to safety and freedom bar none.

just look at the arar commission report.

fuckin rcmp lied and lied and lied to cover their asses.

if