OMG! Thats all I can say, blows my mind!
So I wonder how much Iranian/Hezbollah money it cost for those two MP's to sell their souls.

I read their comments in the Star Phoenix this morning and still haven't cooled down. I have no idea what to say or even think about these comments, they are so surreal. The colossal ignorance of these people is beyond words. It is a bad day to be Canadian.

IDIOTS!!!

Two delusional, appeasement-oriented MPs, one a Grit, the other a Dipper.

In historical parallel, prior to the German Nazi Party legally coming to power in 1933 by German President Hindenburg appointing Hitler as Chancellor, the German Nazi Party had legally elected Members in the German Parliament, the Reichstag. The Nazi Party also had soup kitchens and so forth for poor and unemployed Germans. (All these destitute Germans had to do was listen to Nazi speeches while eating the free Nazi Party-provided meals or while getting clothing from the Nazi clothing program.)

Did that make Hitler (Nasrallah) and the Nazis (Hezbollah) any less viciously fascist? Did it make their great plan, as outlined in "Mein Kampf" (Hezbollah Charter) any less ominous and vile?

Those two idiot MPs only prove the truth of historian Georges Santayana's statement that "the only thing we learn from history is that we don't learn anything from history."

Western democracies can conquer Hezbollah and the rest of the Islamic Fascists as long as we have the will to do so.

The VDH article calls for “truth and moral clarity being as important as military force”. I agree, to win we need a moral Clarity Act on Liberals and Dippers who are a risk to our country. These utopians would sit down and talk to a serial killer in their house instead of calling the police. Islamic Fascists are in our house. They not the Viet Cong, we cannot walk away from the enemy this time, the enemy is here. We arrested 17 in Toronto last month, there are more.

In short, we have 2 utopian enemies to do battle with:
The Islamic extremists who are utopians of the past and
The Socialist utopians of the future in Canada who identify with the Islamists as their last hope to conquer capitalism.

Appeasers in the Liberal Party and the Dippers are as dangerous as the terrorists. They are irrationally utopian and believe in submission to an outside force.

It's high time the Liberals and NDP we're labelled as terrorist support organisations, as well as rascist anti-semites and summarily banned.

I heard this today and couldn't believe it, though it was hardly surprising.

To clarify perhaps they should call George Mitchell from the US or the former Canadian CDS (de Chastelain) to get an understanding of the process used in Northern Ireland. It wasnt what they are recommending here.

However, at no time would Canadian funding of the IRA EVER have taken place. If Hesbollah chooses a different name, proves they are different people (between fighters and politicians) then perhaps it would be considered.

But once again, Canadian funding was unhelpful either way. It was a British Irish issue. In this case it is an Israeli/Lebanese issue and we would be better to encourage them to speak.

These two "useful idiots" that are acting on behalf of Hesbollah should be ignored. Did they tour the damaged israeli cities as well?

These idiots just don't get it. They want to de-list an organization thats stated goal is to eradicate another country. And part of their justification is becasue there are members of Hezbollah that are in government...

The NAZIs were an elected body. The only difference between their "kill the jews" policy and Hezbollah's was for the most part it wasn't revealed to the masses until near the end or shortly after the war. Hezbollah's is right out there. There is no mistaking their intentions.

Had Nash and Wrzesnewskyj been alive in the 40's they would have undoubtedly toured Berlin and Tokyo after allied air raids and demanded they stop and declassify the Nazi and Japanese as enemies, but rather as people of a democracy that need to be talked with; to be understood.

The NDP and the Liberals have gone from being laughable to really being a threat to western civilization. The terrorists have got these suckers number and they use them on a regular basis to propogandize their cause,

These morons don't understanding that after they kil the Jews, their further cause is destroy Western civilization.

And the most amazing thing is the first people likely to be hung from the mulberry trees are people like Svend Robinson and Libby Davies.

Un-bloody-believable...

The proper term is "useful idiots".

No the proper term is useless retards.

The leftern world within is the biggest threat to our way of life, not the Hezbollgh or any other terrorist organization [sorry to keep harping on this point]. When common sense is completely lost and appeasement and sniveling to the demands of the minority are the norm you have a receipt for disaster. I only shudder to think what the position of Canada would be with the lib/left appeasers in power. These two zits from the toronto area and their comments are in line with the lib/left traitors to our society and our way of life.

Please put up email links to their offices, Kate.

Bleeding Hearts! I watched these so called represenatives in Lebanon yesterday. One thing that was for sure, they have been living with their head in the sand. Now, their head is just shoved where the sun don't shine! Hope that their ridings are watching this! Morons!
This just give Primes Harper more and more credability. Dippers and the liars will do anything and say anything!(Notice that CBC was right there..)

Something I didnt know before.

Hitler met with the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem to come to deal with "Arabs" about getting them their land back.

The Grand Mufti's went back and extolled the virtues of the Nazi's, including to his nephew.

The nephew of the Grand Mufti al-Husseni later changed his name to Yasser Arafat.

This is nothing but association and does not talk about transmission of ideologies etc etc...and often enemy of my enemy (in this case the British) is my friend. But there are links that are never discussed and views that are never explored by any media.

The discussion of Nazi soup kitchens and clothing drives is a good one. Once again not saying anything is wroong just old tactics that are successful get used again and again and you need to look at the ideology underneath any action to be able to evaluate it.

M Hawkins

You are absolutely correct. They are "useful idiots" by the original definition.

I should have thought of it.

BTW, Borys was a major supporter of SSM (something he didn't point out at the door when talking to my dad while electioneering last winter, I'd add). Maybe contact him and ask why he's supporting the people who execute queers.

Is it a surprise that the MSM are "useful idiots"? The New York Times helped promote the war in Iraq by publishing fiction about WMD's written by Ahmed Chalabi...I mean Judith Miller.

Stephen: If you didn't know that, then possibly you also didn't know that the Mufti was 'best friends' with Eichmann & Himmler, visited operational death camps, and personally recruited Bosnian Muslims for the Waffen SS(?)

I am always amazed at the perception of people like these two morons. This is war, not in the conventional sense that we are used to but it is still war. People like these two feel that terrorist groups can be appeased obviously failed history or were not taught. At some point coming to a location near us in Canada, in our streets, on our subways, buses or planes the terrorist will strike and then perhaps the morons will wake uo to reality. Unfortunately, this is what it is going to take for these dimwits to see the real world as it happens today.

I often worry that this forum is preaching to the converted. May I suggest an e-mail to the federal Liberal and ndp parties with your views may be useful. I am of course not sure it will help because some folks are stupid, but it's worth a try.
mel

Let the "guests of hezbollah", aka Liberals/NDP/Bloc, view this video. ...-

Conclusive evidence?

I had not intended to post again on the "Qanagate" affair until the report in preparation was finished - which still needs a few more days.

However, one of our readers has recently unearthed additional video footage, shot by Aljazeera. This more or less proves that the "dead baby" scene, in which "Green Helmet" was photographed by Reuters' Adnan Hajj (he of doctored photograph fame) uncovering the body of Abbas Ahmad Hashim, was not only staged, but faked.

The very strong indications are that the body of baby Hashim was uncovered early in the recovery effort by two Red Cross workers and subsequently re-buried so that it could be "discovered" by "Green Helmet" in a way that maximised the propaganda value.

The footage showing the initial discovery has been posted on this site, from which three "grabs" are reproduced here. ...- (EUReferendum blog)

Video here:

http://www.paulding.net/bin/url.cgi/13381.6

Must register:

Dailymotion's users have flagged this content as viewable by a mature audience only.

Contact Information:

peggy@peggynash.ca

wrzesnewskyj.B@parl.gc.ca

I read about this in this AM's papers, and am just now coming out of shock mode

I plan to contact these people and ask them to clarify their stance on the subject. I expect an answer.

We need to be fair, as they could have been misquoted....you know how the MSM has been spinning this issue. I may be naive on this, but let's not yet rule out yet another case of MSM bias.

I just find it unbelievable that they could be in support of a group whose stated goal is eradication of Israel.

I would also like to know if their trip involved a visit to the damages in Israel.

Just think of how many moron's it took to elect these two.

I just found out that this trip was arranged by The National Council on Arab - Canadian Relations.

Maybe Layton and Graham will say that these are just extremists in their party. To which we reply “ yes but if you can’t manage your extremists you are not fit to govern our country. Go take a walk in the wilderness for 13 years and don’t come back until you isolate your nutbars.”

Lee said: "I just found out that this trip was arranged by The National Council on Arab - Canadian Relations".

As I recall, Carolyn Parrish's expense-paid junket to the ME was funded by Palestine House.........dare I suggest there is the hint of a pattern here? ;-)

I wrote a letter to the Mississauga newspaper about 2 years' back regarding Parrish and her trip financed by Palestine House.

The Palestine House guy wrote back to call me a zionist and offered to pay my way to see Pal suffering. Not surprisingly, Parrish also wrote back to offer a paid trip to see Pal suffering.

No doubt they put their "heads" together before replying to me - turds of a feather, and all that.

and we entrust people like that with our safety!

Dont just write them, write your MP if you live in an NDP or Liberal riding. What does Borys the Spider and Crosby Stills Nash care if you arent in their ridings.

Threaten their colleagues with electoral loss and watch the fur fly.

I know my MP is notoriously quiet on this matter, Hello Ms Kadis, care to speak up on this matter? Call Borys out on this.

does anyone have any idea how much money these lobby groups get from the canadian government??...are there processes in place to ensure this money does not make it back to the taliban/al qaida/hesbolla ???
are these mp's not mindful of the relationships between all of these extreme islamonutjob groups???
was it not the libs who sent our troops to afghani in the first place????
what is this lib doing supporting our enemies?

The Greek: "They want to de-list an organization thats stated goal is to eradicate another country."

It doesn't stop there. The hezb'allah logo consists of the word "allah" at the bottom, an AK47 and a globe. Their goal couldn't be any more clear - Israel's destruction is only their first step.

Wrzesnewskyj and Nash are wilfully blind idiots.

There's even more, and worse, at the Toronto Star site:
http://tinyurl.com/jx68z

Standing at the spot where an Israeli air strike killed several members of a Montreal family last month, Wrzesnewskyj said Israel's summer offensive against Lebanon was nothing less than "state terrorism."

"Over 1,200 dead and counting. Over 40,000 apartments and houses flattened. A country's infrastructure dismembered. You look around here," said Wrzesnewskyj (Etobicoke Centre). "I believe what's happened is absolutely criminal."

The Star archives only last for two weeks, so read it now.

These two usefull idiots should be labeled the collaberators they are, by supporting Hezbollah, they are inadvertantly endorsing ..GENOCIDE..
Canadians need to be reminded that these two vulgar freaks, have the complete support of their respective parties.
.....Support ..GENOCIDE..
......Vote Liberal or NDP........

These two usefull idiots should be labeled the collaberators they are, by supporting Hezbollah, they are inadvertantly endorsing ..GENOCIDE..
Canadians need to be reminded that these two vulgar freaks, have the complete support of their respective parties.
.....Support ..GENOCIDE..
......Vote Liberal or NDP........

Over at Celestial junk, Debris Trail addresses the stupidity of Nash and Wr..etc..
A must read.

so these two idiots get a Potemkin visit tour of some bomb damage and conclude that its a criminal act ?

Wonder if they got to meet Green Helmet Guy ??

Wonder if they asked any hard questions about Hisbullah staging news events or desecrating the corpses of children ??

But curious minds want to know, that after travelling half way around the world on a guided CAIR tour, did they go the extra 25 kilometres and visit damaged sites in Israel ??

I think not.

Liberals, NDP = Stuck on Stupid

Borys seems to be backtracking a bit. Heard an interview on Newsnet where he says he never said Hez should be taken off the list. But he dislikes the part of the legislation where it says you do not negotiate with terrorists.

Negotiating with them gives them legitimacy; what is the point, then, of having a list in the first place??

So I guess he's not really backtracking, just beating around the bush. (Oops, did I say Bush??)

No time to blog today....

I'm completely gobstruck by the lunacy of the Canadian left, embodied in the NDP and Liberals. The LAST thing we need is to remove Hezbollah from the terrorist list.

Jaw on the floor, still....

theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20060821.whezbo0821/BNStory/Front/home

atta boy Stockwell

CAIR Canada - the group that sponsored (paid for ??) the little Liberal NDP field trip. Thank god the Conservative member had the common sense & courtesy to pull out of the trip.

CAIR - All Hamas, All Hisbullah, All Hate, All the Time. Brought to you by the Religion of Peace and the International Terrorist Association for the Wiping Israel off the Map.

CAIR was founded in 1994 by alumni of an older group, the Islamic Association for Palestine. The IAP, founded by senior Hamas figure Mousa Mohammed Abu Marzook, calls for the destruction of Israel and the creation of an Islamic state under Islamic law in Israel's place. (In 1996, CAIR would condemn the U.S. government's decision to deport Marzook as an "anti-Islamic" act.)

CAIR's first executive director, Nihad Awad, publicly declared himself a supporter of Hamas at a 1994 forum at Barry University in Florida.

One of CAIR's original advisory board members, Siraj Wahhaj, served as a character witness for Sheik Omar Abdel Rahman. Rahman is the blind Egyptian cleric convicted in 1995 of conspiracy to bomb New York landmarks. CAIR described Rahman's conviction as a hate crime.

CAIR's founding chairman, Omar Ahmed, also an IAP alumnus, is said to have declared at a public event in California in July, 1998: "Islam isn't in America to be equal to any other faith, but to become dominant. The Koran . . . should be the highest authority in America, and Islam the only accepted religion on earth." Ahmed has since disputed the accuracy of the quote--five years after it was reported by a California newspaper.

After the 9/11 attacks on the United States, CAIR's Web site featured a link titled, "Donate to the NY/DC Disaster Relief Fund." The link connected to the Web site of the Holy Land Foundation, a charity closed down by the United States three months later as a Hamas front.

Over the past 10 years, CAIR has grown rapidly. It now claims a total of 29 affiliates, including CAIR Canada. CAIR's media savvy won it much official attention after 9/11. With that attention, however, also came a higher degree of scrutiny.

Since 9/11, three CAIR associates in the U.S. have been indicted on terrorism-related charges.

In September, 2003, CAIR community relations director Bassem K. Khafagi, pleaded guilty on immigration and bank-fraud charges, in Detroit. Khafagi interestingly co-owned a print shop with another man who has since been charged with illegally sending goods into Iraq.

Randall Todd Royer, a communications specialist at CAIR's Washington headquarters, pleaded guilty in January, 2004, to belonging to the Kashmiri Lashkar-i-Taibi terrorist group and illegally acquiring firearms and explosives in order to train for terrorist missions against India. He was sentenced to 20 years in prison.

A founding member of CAIR's Texas chapter, Ghassen Elashi, was convicted of conspiracy and money-laundering charges in connection with the shipment of high-technology items to Syria and Libya in July, 2004.

This record has drawn increasing notice in the United States. CAIR officials were invited to join President Bush at his September, 2001, visit to Washington's mosque, but were omitted from the invitation list to the 2003 and 2004 White House Iftar dinners (an Iftar meal is the fast-breaking at the end of a day in Ramadan). New York Senator Chuck Schumer has charged that CAIR members have "intimate links to Hamas." Illinois Senator Richard Durbin, a political leader noted for his sensitivity to Islamic concerns, has said that CAIR is "unusual in its extreme rhetoric and its association with groups that are suspect."

CAIR Canada describes its relationship with CAIR as "close but distinct." It is not clear what this means. On its Web site and in its publications, CAIR lists CAIR canada as one of its local affiliates, giving it the same stauts as a state or regional CAIR chapter. CAIR Canada has its own board; so do many of CAIR's local chapters. It should of course be stated that no criminal charges have ever been filed gainst CAIR Canada or any of its officers.

how did they used to print it

"Nuff Said!"
this from CBCpravdas own stuff.

Graham later reversed his position, citing media reports that quoted Hezbollah leader Sheik Hassan Nasrallah urging Palestinians to expand suicide bombings worldwide.

NDP MP urges hezb'allah to be removed from terrorist list.
then again the dippers never did have too much idea how money flows.

When terrorists threaten reporters and selectively "guide" them through war zones, it unquestionably affects the nature and amount of information the public gets. But the ideas which drive such manipulation also have an outreach program in the west in the form of the news services themselves. Safe and sound, far away from Hezbollah or PA threats, the media manipulates consumers by consistently keeping from them straightforward, common events and behaviours that are germaine to the issue of Israel's relations with its neighbours. Misinformation isn't good, but non-information is arguably worse.

When Pallywood is caught, say, faking a funeral, as in the incident Joel Mowbray mentions where the deceased was accidently dropped only to spring up unhurt and undead, it doesn't get much MSM coverage. It's not that big a story in and of itself, and one would assume that at the executive level the media wouldn't want us questioning the rest of their coverage. What's more disturbing is that such faked events don't seem to effect the level of credulity of reporters in the rest of their coverage. The attitude seems to be "If there's no apparent evidence of fakery, assume it's real."

Fakery is one problem, but lies of ommission are even more insidious and widespread. Since lies of ommission are technically not lies, you can't really call the media on them, but the MSM's constant witholding of, say, expressed Arab opinions about Jews, and their witholding of non-staged events which are utterly germaine to the issue of Israel's relations with its neighbours helps keep the public in the dark about what it is, exactly, that Israel is up against.

Recently there was an event which, again, was not covered by the MSM. A series of photos widely distributed by bloggers showed the event: the desecration of the remains of a man accused of giving information to Israeli authorities by a large crowd of Palestinians. In one photo you see a jeans-clad guy in a logo-ed T-shirt kicking the dead man; in another, men are seen taking pictures/videos with their cell-phones, looking not at the corpse being desecrated in front of them, but rather focused intently, like directors, on the image on their phones. In another, the dead man is on his back while a fat little woman whose face and body are completely covered, steps forward from the midst of this public-square gathering to step spryly, in a lunge position, on the dead man's windpipe.

The issue, of course, isn't that this public-square behaviour is synonymous with the Palestinian people per se, but rather that different nations and groups have different values, and that these differences cannot be discounted or dismissed outright as being irrelevent. The BBC's and -- only at times -- the CBC's default position is that Israel's neighbours are motivated exclusively by "justice" and "liberation" and all those words which dovetail nicely with those organization's lefty sympathies.
Their hatred, one is led to assume, results from the lack of those things, making their actions rude to mention, and irrelevent.

So images of dead/disinterred Lebanese and Palestinians are waved in the world's face, along with not-so-subtle assertions that Israelis don't care about human life, while the human face, and the motivations and attributes of some of the enemies of Israel are consistently airbrushed out of the narrative. This sort of propaganda powerfully affects public opinion, making the movement of certain MP's in the direction of votes inevitable.

In Canada there is a not-insubstantial constiuency -- of non-ME origins -- who in effect support the same goals, if not the actions, of that corpse-desecrating mob. You have to wonder if these people, and those who skirt around the edges of such a view wouldn't be a litte more er, ah, nuanced if the media didn't so selectively filter information and instead just documented the sort of real-world behaviours and attitudes that, at the very least, would help give realistic context to the larger picture. People should be allowed to make up their own minds, and not have someone decide what the narrative should be, and then create information networks to serve that viewpoint. They sure don't excise Israeli actions.

it seems to me that for many conservatives, it's less about standing up for jews and more about murdering muslims.

you see jeff at the end you're getting - keep trying boy!

EBD - great post. I couldn't agree with you more.

KATE - THEY DID NOT SAY "DeatH to Jews". THAT IS A LIE! THAT IS YOU PROVOKING BECAUSE YOU LOVE WAR. This post and those words would be a great case of the new interpretations of 'slander online' - Where did these 2 MP' say "Death to Jews" - I hope you have a good lawyer.

WHAT YOU SAID IS A LIE! A BLATANT LIE!

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/753073.html

"it seems to me that for many conservatives, it's less about standing up for jews and more about murdering muslims."

Jeffwee just mixed up his words a li'l bit.
Here, let me fix that for you Jeff...

it seems to me that for many muslims, it's less about standing up for muslims and more about murdering jews.

Hey Jeff

It seems to me that for many leftists it's less about standing up for muslims and more about murdering jews.

Multirec

Good timing buddy

Disgusting Liberal/NDP types. Disgusting.

Wrzesnewskyj And Nash - "Death To Jews"

I am unable to find a citation for this quote. Since it appears to be Make Up Fake Quotes Day:

McMillan: "Ban Back Bacon Now!"

philanthropist: "Stephan Dion Is A Hunk!"

jwp: "Muslim chicks are hot!"

multirec: "There is no God but God, and Muhammed is his prophet!"

Robert J: "I harbour feelings of lust for Kim Jong Il!"

maz2: "I spooned with Alan MacEachen at summer camp!"

Eh? Eh? Am I getting the hang of it?

CAIR is nothing more than a front group for terrorists and terrorism:

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=21528

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1452674/posts

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=32242

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1443177/posts

http://www.danielpipes.org/article/394

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/fr/532360/posts

Jeff:

Have you ever heard of the names Plato, Aristotle, St. Thomas Aquinas?

No, they're not comic book characters played by Toby Macguire in the movie, they're ancient philosophers that took seriously the idea of the just war and preemptive strike.

I know that's a little above your head. Don't bother.

When will these morons realize that the threat to our way of life is not Israel.
They are in Lebanon for a photo-op showing those Muslim voters back home how much their hearts bleed for the Lebanese people. Are actually saying that the Schmutzige Juden are criminals.
I wonder if they will go into Israel to visit the towns that were hit with rockets and tell the Israeli's that it is their fault for being lackeys to the Americans.

They are criticizing Stephen Harper for taking sides, but have no problem doing it themselves. One of them a Bloc MP, Maria Mourani, is originally from Lebanon came to this country and joins a political party dedicated to breaking up the country. What a piece of sh** this b***h is.

Shilling propaganda for the enemy should be considered treason and treason's punishment should be a long drop from a short rope.

That should go double for people in positions of power (everyone from politicians, journalists, teachers/professors...)

Immigrants who join separatist parties should be separated - in at least two pieces...

The good news is their providing lots of fodder for the Tories in the next election... looks like two easy new seats for the Tories.

"Have you ever heard of the names Plato, Aristotle, St. Thomas Aquinas?"

None of the aforementioned cats could hold a candle to St. Augustine, who pretty much wrote the book on "Just War Doctrine", such as it is:

"Augustine's writings helped formulate the theory of the just war. He also advocated the use of force against the Donatists, asking "Why ... should not the Church use force in compelling her lost sons to return, if the lost sons compelled others to their destruction?" (The Correction of the Donatists, 22–24)

St. Thomas Aquinas took much from Augustine's theology while creating his own unique synthesis of Greek and Christian thought after the widespread rediscovery of the work of Aristotle.
...
The Just War Tradition - is a philosophical "method" for determining whether a war can be justified from a moral standpoint and a tradition going back at least to Augustine of Hippo."

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Just_War_Theory

EBD: "When terrorists threaten reporters and selectively "guide" them through war zones, it unquestionably affects the nature and amount of information the public gets."

That is true. But don't act as if media manipulation this some new concept, particularly in times of war. Have you heard of embedded reporters? Do they get to see the whole story, or are they "guided" through war zones? As for fake images and narratives, how about William Randolph Hearst? (Do the words "You furnish the pictures and I'll furnish the war" mean anything to you?) There is nothing new about any of this. Don't pretend to be shocked, SHOCKED.

Jwp, beat ya by a minute!

Shame on Boris, Peggy, and Maria. They couldn't be bother to visit Israel and see the destruction and deaths cause by the blood thirsty Hezbollah fascist terrorists. I guess Israelis lives are worth less than the Hezbollah supporters lives.

What a waste of our tax dollars - being a public relations for Hezbollah thugs.

Boris is back tracking now . . saying he didn't say Hisbullah should be removed from the Terrorist List.

Lorne Gunter on "Adler Live" says he did - in front of numerous journalists who have him on tape.

Another Liberal Stuck on Stupid

Trying to lie his way out of his stupidity isn't a smart idea, but he is a Liberal so he comes by that ability naturally.

With reference to Liberals and their support for Hezbollah, Warren Kinsella, as well as others, are posting comments made by a member of the Liberal Party, Thomas Hubert, who is a member of Gerald Kennedy's leadership bid and also a VP of a youth group of the Liberals. Kinsella is calling for Graham to demand his resignation. On one blog, Thomas wrote:

"One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. At one point, George Washington was considered a terrorist by the powers that be. History will remember Hezbollah as an organization that stood up to the most vile 'nation' in human history."

On Jason Cherniak's blog, he wrote:

"The Liberal Party is stronger without these violent Zionists in our party. I am glad for them to cease influencing our foreign policy so we are free to promote Canadian values of peace. It amazes me that this community is so absurdly selfish. The only issue that matters to them is the defence of a "state" that survives on the blood of innocent people. Shameful."

"Despite my own leanings towards the movement for liberation and justice for the people of Palestine and Lebanon, I firmly believe that Canada must remain neutral in all Middle-East disputes. A "pro-Israel" policy is just as bad as a "pro-Palestine/Lebanon/insert Zionist occupied nation of the year" policy. Canada absolutely must not take sides in this dispute and must be a world leader in brokering compromise and peace."

"I am a "real" Liberal. I am currently VP of Communications for the Young Liberals of Canada in BC. "

Now, this is only one person, but, he's very public and very vocal in his views and his being a member of the Liberal Party. His equation of Israel, a legitimate state, with a terrorist group, aligns him with the Trio in Lebanon. And, his assertion that self-defense is an action of 'the most vile nation' is - well..he ought to resign.

Cherniak's blog has some interesting comments, including suggestions that the Liberals are moving to the Islamic community, not for reasons of justice or principle, but as usual, for the only reasons the Liberals do anything - to garner votes, votes, votes.

In the days when even liberals had a measured response.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7_a2wa2dd4

RE: Nash and Wrzesnewskyj....

...Any chance these two also belong to the Flat Earth Society?

:))

Hot off my email a reply from Borys to my complaint

Thank you for your email regarding my self-financed fact-finding mission to the Middle East.
Please find below my statement issued today, August 21, 2006 at 12 noon EDT. I also took the liberty of including my press release issued prior to my departure to the region.

Again, thank you for expressing your views and concerns on the Middle East.
Respectfully,
Borys Wrzesnewskyj, M.P.
Etobicoke Centre

For Immediate Release

August 21, 2006

Statement from Liberal MP Borys Wrzesnewskyj

“CanWest News today reported that I support taking Hezbollah off Canada’s list of banned terrorist organizations. This is emphatically wrong. On the contrary, Hezbollah is a terrorist organization and I stated that it must remain on Canada’s list because it has committed war crimes by sending rockets into civilian areas."

“What I did say, however, is that the legislation surrounding our banned list of terrorist organizations must be evaluated to ensure our role as mediator is not compromised. Currently, the legislation forbids Canada from having any discussions with those on the list, and I believe this is not the way to achieve peace."

“Canada must be a partner in any efforts by the international community to bring peace and stability to the region, and we can not play that role if we are shackled by this legislation which forbids us from even speaking to those groups on our list. Discussion, negotiation and diplomacy are paramount to a lasting peace.”

- 30 -

For further information:
Borys Wrzesnewskyj, M.P.
Associate Critic for Foreign Affairs
(613) 947-5000

For Immediate Release

August 14, 2006

Parliamentary Fact Finding Mission Initiated by MP Wrzesnewskyj heading off to the Middle East

Ottawa – Etobicoke Centre MP Borys Wrzesnewskyj will be the self-financed Liberal representative on a multi-party fact finding mission initiated by Mr. Wrzesnewskyj to the Middle East from August 15 to August 22, 2006. Mr. Wrzesnewskyj is scheduled to meet with the Foreign Ministers of Egypt, Syria and Lebanon as well as Lebanon’s Parliamentary Speaker and the Lebanese Prime Minister Fouad Siniara. When asked what he hoped to achieve during these meetings Mr. Wrzesnewskyj stated that:

“Besides listening and fact finding, I hope to carry the message that Canada has never been “neutral” in our position on crises in the Middle East. Since the era of Pearson and the Suez Crisis we have always been on the side of patient diplomacy and peaceful resolution and not the simplistic cheerleading of one warring side or another.”

During the parliamentary mission the Members of Parliament will also be meeting with NGO’s and visiting displaced persons camps. Mr. Wrzesnewskyj concluded by talking of the civilian toll of the war:

“The only innocents in this conflict are those civilians and children who have suffered and died. Canada’s role should be to help bring about a future in which every child born in the Middle East, Lebanese, Israeli or Palestinian, can have the same hopes and dreams for the future that a child born in Canada can dream of.”

Mr. Wrzesnewskyj was the first Canadian Member of Parliament to call for a cease fire in the region on July 14th, 2006. Upon returning to Canada, it is envisioned that Mr. Wrzesnewskyj and the other Parliamentarians on this mission will submit a report to Parliament on their findings and how Canada can help be an instrument toward a lasting peace in the Middle East.

- 30 -

For further information:
Borys Wrzesnewskyj, M.P.
Associate Critic for Foreign Affairs
(613) 947-5000

I smell very successful lawsuits against smalldeadanimals - and what is with you 'piece of satire' on the post above?

What is going on in the liberal party, they are losing it.

The NDP well they never had it so I don't really get to upset, I just laugh at them.

I have to say it seems like Harper has done it again. I was wondering why he did not let his representive go. Now I see why.

Put the Bloc,NDP and liberals together and just sit back and watch the hypocrcy.

John:

Thanks for the contact information.

I am in Peggy Nash's riding.

Here is a copy of the e-mail I just sent her:

**********************************************

I am in your constituency of Parkdale-High Park.

You can check:

(name and address provided)

Most of the people I know who voted for you
voted to get the Liberals out.

They would not have voted for you
if they had known you support a Jew-hating terrorist organization.

Now that we know you support Hezbollah
you can be sure I shall do everything in my power
to convince the decent people in my neighbourhood
to vote against you in the next election.

Thanks, jwp. Actually, Wrz's post is filled with logical and factual errors.

First, the Toronto Star reports that he said:

"Standing at the spot where an Israeli air strike killed several members of a Montreal family last month, Wrzesnewskyj said Israel's summer offensive against Lebanon was nothing less than "state terrorism."

"Over 1,200 dead and counting. Over 40,000 apartments and houses flattened. A country's infrastructure dismembered. You look around here," said Wrzesnewskyj (Etobicoke Centre). "I believe what's happened is absolutely criminal."

He has defined Israel as 'criminal' and as a 'terrorist state'. He has also defined the Hezbollah as 'a terrorist organization'. So, he equates a terrorist militia of civilians, with its stated mandate to murder civilians and demolish a nation, with a legitimate state with a democratically elected government acting in self-defense against a terrorist group funded and armed by Iran. That's quite the equation.

Then, he asserts, in his equation of the two, that this means that you can 'talk and negotiate'. What is there to talk and negotiate with, when dealing with terrorists? Nothing.

Being 'neutral' has absolutely nothing to do with being 'on the side of patient diplomacy'. Indeed, if you are unable to evaluate and judge the principles and truth of a situation, then, a 'resolution' will be unfair and a result only of the loudest and most bullying member of the discussion.

By the way - what does 'self-financed trip' mean? Does it mean that he paid for the trip out of his salary? Or that the Canadian taxpayer paid for it?

lawsuits - lawsuits -lawsuits -lawsuits - oh the lawyers are gonna love this!!!! (Too bad you won't post my other 2 posts)!!

I see our lawyer is back, shift to ignore. ET, I believe self financed means on CAIR's nickel.

"We are all Hezbollah now"

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/printFriendly/0,,1-525-2309812-525,00.html

Found at Arts and Letters.

The CBC online report states that Wrzesnewskyj and Nash both recommended that Hebollah be removed from the list of terrorist organizations.

"The Lebanese-based militant group Hezbollah should be removed from Canada's list of banned terrorist organizations, two Canadian MPs say.

Boris Wrzesnewskyj and Peggy Nash made the comments Sunday during a fact-finding mission to southern Lebanon as Israeli troops continue to withdraw from the region following 34 days of conflict.

Wrzesnewskyj, a Liberal MP from Toronto, says the visit has shown him how integrated Hezbollah is into Lebanese society. In the interest of peace, he said Canada should reconsider its 2002 decision to place the group on its list of banned terrorist groups.

"Hezbollah has a political wing, they have members of parliament, two [cabinet] ministers," said Wrzesnewskyj.

"You want to encourage the politicians of this military organization, you want to encourage the political wing, so that the centre of gravity shifts to them."

Wrzesnewskyj says he plans to deliver a report recommending the Liberal caucus support reversing the ban."

So, his email is denying the MSM report. That's quite plausible; we all know that the MSM isn't reliable, but, he and Nash will both have to clarify their statements.

As for 'self-financed trip', that doesn't mean, in my inadequate understanding, financed by CAIR or by any other mode than The Self. That's what the term 'self' means. The Self. So, if, as is probably the case, the trip was indeed financed by CAIR and not out of Wrz's own pocket, then he is deliberately and openly misleading the public.

He has defined Israel as 'criminal' and as a 'terrorist state'

I'm not going to read Mr. W's mind here, but that in itself is a logical error. He said "I believe what's happened is absolutely criminal." Well, you could say that for pedophile sex offenders to walk the streets in Canada is "absolutely criminal" without defining Canada itself as criminal. Similarly, describing what he considers a single act of state terrorism doesn't define Israel as a terrorist nation - that its raison d'etre is to terrorize, like Hezbollah for example. (You eat one foot and they call you a cannibal.) Isn't it the Christian thing to hate the sin but love the sinner? It is reasonable to argue that he can criticize what he considers a criminal action without condemneing the nation as a whole as terrorist or criminal. Whether he had that in his own mind or not, neither of us can say for sure.

So, Borys got caught up in the flush of it all...

Matthew Fisher, the columnist quoting Borys, for both the Montreal Gazette and the Ottawa Citizen, clearly understood what was said.

He directly asked him "if he was in favor of Hezbollah being taken off the terror list."

Borys said: "Yes, I would be."

Did Bill Graham catch up to him on this arranged travel package with the spokesmen for Egypt, Syria, and Lebanon?

As an aside, I think it was the NCCAR, National Council on Canada-Arab Relations, that arranged this visitation for the Canadian MPs.

Israel was not on the itinerary, not surprisingly.

Kinsella has more on the Liberal Thomas Hubert, who is a young Liberal Executive member and on Gerald Kennedy's team. Hubert's web postings have similarities to Wrzesnewskyj and Nash. I've posted them above.

Now, Scott Brison is calling for Hubert's resignation. I'm cynical and consider it's 'all about votes', not principles. I haven't noticed that Brison is 'big on principles' (wasn't he involved in the financial leak?).

But none of this is making the Liberal Party look good. Oh, and Brison's statement asserts that the 'Liberal Party is a party of tolerance, multiculturalism and understanding". Heh. Remember those election ads?

Claudia Rosett::Annan jets off for a Nasrallah crowning?

"Brace yourself. In the United Nations-brokered farce known as the “cessation of hostilities in Lebanon,” we may now be heading for the moment in which Secretary-General Kofi Annan jets to Beirut to crown as the heirs of Lebanon the hijackers of the Cedar Revolution — the terrorists of Hezbollah.

Not that the U.N. has exactly expressed it that way. Annan’s office as of Friday afternoon would confirm only that Annan “will likely go to the region in the weeks ahead.” Israeli radio has been reporting that Annan will begin a Middle East tour on Monday in Lebanon, and go from there — in what order is not clear — to Israel, Syria, and Iran.
newsbeat1.com

You are right bean,
I am writing to these two and demanding to know the nature of the funding for this trip.

TDH is frothing at his qwerty; tolerant, those Libs are, diverse in their opinions, too. Pretzels are in at the Libbish blogs.

Borys is borscht.

Hubert just joined the Libs in May....LOL....from the NDP.....RFLMOSAO...

Waiting for Billy Graham to clarify the nuance is killing. Graham will say: Eating crow leaves a foul taste in my mouth. ...-

August 21, 2006 - The abhorrent views of Young Liberal executive member Thomas Hubert, which have now received national attention as a result of my friend Warren Kinsella, have left a bad taste in my mouth, and in the mouths of many others, both in and outside of the Liberal party.

I just got off the phone with Mr. Hubert (published on his website, he can be reached at (604) 805-0552), where he apologized for how his comments were interpreted. He also said that he is about to resign from his post on the BC Young Liberal executive, as he was trying to get adjusted to the "kind of language" that was appropriate for the Liberal party (he just joined up from the NDP in May). Sorry, but these kinds of comments:

"One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. At one point, George Washington was considered a terrorist by the powers that be. History will remember Hezbollah as an organization that stood up to the most vile 'nation' in human history."

"The Liberal Party is stronger without these violent Zionists in our party. I am glad for them to cease influencing our foreign policy so we are free to promote Canadian values of peace. It amazes me that this community is so absurdly selfish. The only issue that matters to them is the defence of a "state" that survives on the blood of innocent people. Shameful."

are unacceptable regardless of what party you are a member of.

First there's Borys Wrzesnewskyj, now there's this guy, and of course there is the virile anti-semite Andrew Telegdi - all Gerard Kennedy supporters. Where is the Coco Lefoka, Kennedy's national youth co-chair and the president of the Young Liberals here in BC, on this issue? More importantly, where is Gerard Kennedy?

Fools and Useless Idiots go to Lebanon, a Farce, starring Peggy Nash and Borys Wrzesnewskyj. Anyone watching this Farce will understand why we need more than a majority Conservative government, never has it been more clear.

Borys W...hatever is flip-flopping all over the place on this one.

He was pretty unequivocal on CBC last night when he called for an end to all terrorism, including "state terrorism". Pretty clear who he was pointing the finger at there.

And from reading the print interviews this morning, it's clearly not a case of "being misquoted" or another excuse. He was asked point blank about it and said he would support removing Hezbollah from the list.

Although, should we be surprised from this kind of action from Liberals? Remember Tony Valeri? Yes, he too met with Hezbollah on a similar junket AT HIS PERSONAL REQUEST and after Hezbollah had been put on the list by Chretch.

OOPS! It should read "why we need more than EVER a Conservative majority"......

Kate I hope Borys sues your @$$ off.

KC and the Sunshine band. Spreading the gospel.

Don't worry, Liz. We'll get that majority as soon as Wally O'Dell gets the balloting contract.

At the top of this post, the writer of this post said:
Wrzesnewskyj And Nash - "Death To Jews"

It is the quotation marks (without citation) that will be the determining factor - rather than using single (') quote marks around the FALSE statement that neither Wrzesnewskyj and Nash actually ever said.

In litigation against the owner of this site, that should be worth at least ...hmmm.... say about a quarter million dollars - here's hoping!!

Wasn't it the Liberals and NDP who set their hair on fire when Harper went to speak, to a business group in another country, and gave the government of the day poor marks regarding an international conflict?

Now here we have the Borys and Peggy duo, doing exactly that...slagging the Canadian government in not one, but several foreign countries.

There is a word for that, I believe...

All Wrzesnewskyj and Nash were doing was reflecting the sentiment in this Israeli editorial:

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/753073.html

The following article appeared in Haaretz, an Israeli newspaper this date - August 21, 2006:

?In the 1960s, when a computer in the home, a telephone in the pocket, and a television satellite in orbit were the outlandish stuff of cartoon fantasy, defense industries in the United States were hard at work preparing for the electronic battlefield of the 21st Century.

Sure enough, the real electronic battlefield of the 21st Century would prove to be the collective subconscious: the war for public opinion fought live via cell phones and satellite television and home computers - even when home is a camel-hair Bedouin tent.

The Lebanon war just past was a new model of warfare, just as the Hezbollah/Hamas model is a new model of governance.

The war was one of the first in history in which both sides began the war by concentrating their fire on the enemy's home front.

It was the first in history in which a force of irregulars fired thousands and thousands of surface-to-surface missiles into civilian areas deep within a sovereign nation, as many as 250 a day.

Predictably, in the electronic struggle for hearts and minds, there is no overlap between the way Hezbollah is pictured in Israel and in the Muslim world.

In Israeli media, even in ostensibly left-leaning outlets, Hezbollah men are with rare exceptions referred to as M'chablim, or terrorists. Hezbollah and Hamas are routinely described as Islamic terrorist organizations bent on Israel's destruction, just as they always have been - and which the Knee-Jerk Right insists they always must be.

In much of the foreign media - in particular among the acrobatic apologists of the Lawrence of Arabia Left - Hezbollah is identified variously as a guerrilla organization, a group of farmer-by-day resistance fighters, a political party and coalition partner in the ruling Lebanese cabinet, or a vast and vital social welfare network for the poorest of Lebanon's citizens.

All of this is true, and the terrorism as well. That is precisely the problem with the facile label. Hezbollah is all of these at once, and thus, no single one of these labels is accurate.

We don't know what to call them, because we don't really know what they are.

Because we dismissed them as terrorists, we didn't know how to fight them.

And because we didn't know how to fight them, we used sledgehammers instead of scalpels in areas where hundreds of thousands of Lebanese civilians lived.

And because we so entirely dismissed them, we helped Al Jazeera and much of the caricature-driven media of the cable-satellite West, transform them from killers to giant-killers.

This is the new model, the agent of the truly New Middle East, so new that we don't even have a workable name for it.

Just as Israel would do well to look with fresh eyes and new candor at itself in the light of the war, we would do well to try to divine what this creature called Hezbollah really is.

It is the world's best-armed and most dangerous NGO, a relief agency that does everything it can to kill maximum numbers of innocents across the border. It is the Corleone model of humanitarian aid work, winning gratitude and fealty with family packs of $12,000 in freshly wrapped currency.

It is our enemy. We don't know how to fight it. Not yet.

Does it want to destroy Israel? Of course it does. Did its rockets kill Israelis civilians indiscriminately, among them Arab citizens of the state? Did its apologists insists that the targets of its 3,700 rockets were really army bases? Of course they did.

Is it a terrorist organization? No. Not because it doesn't engage in terror, but because its real power in the world of radical Islam, Israel-hate and America-hate, comes from this new model of the Islamic super-state.

For the first time since Islam lost Spain, radical Islamists have begun to believe that the caliphate can be restored, that the empire of Allah can overcome and eventually supplant the West.

And we are helping them. By dismissing them as terrorists, and by playing directly into their hands, by undermining governments, like that of Lebanese Prime Minister Fouad Siniora, that actually want to see peace come between our peoples, before radical Islam rings down a curtain on all of us.

If the Israeli and Jewish fossil right are to be believed, all this talk about peace is self-destructive. All that matters is to hang onto all the land we have, and blast away at everything that moves across the border. To Finish the Job.

If the right are to be believed, all the Arabs want to see Israel dead, and despotic Islamic regimes reign supreme. If the fossil right is to be believed, then, there's no hope for any of us. If what we are facing 200 million terrorists, as the fossil right would have us believe, there's no hope for the right, either.

There is another possibility, of course. That is, that something about terrorists changes over time when they actually are faced with the real challenges of governance. When they are faced with actual constituents, with diverse needs and diverse belief systems, and little real taste for the iron fist and the religion of rifles and explosives.

It is too convenient for many of us, rightists here and abroad, to dismiss the Arabs as terrorists and terrorist sympathizers.

It is too convenient for many of us to decide that nothing changes, that they will all hate us until we are dead and/or gone.

The challenge now is to find the strength to believe that we, in fact, have a future with the people who live across the line.

The challenge we face is to respect our enemies enough to know how to hang onto what is ours. To be strong enough to fight them when they come to kill us. But to be strong enough, as well, to remain open to those who want to find a way to live and let us live as well.

In the end, the Lebanese people no more want a Hezbollah state than we want a Kahane state. The Lebanese people are not terrorists.

The label terrorist is much too simple. We love to use it, but it can blind us to the complexities of reality, and the fact that things, and even those we label terrorists, can change over time.

Think, for one brief moment, about Menachem Begin."

Bradley Burston
Haaretz

The looney moonbats from the Libberish Party are now called stalkers.

Note: Rahim Jaffer is a Muslim.

Here is the real face of the Liberal Party:

The Liberal Party is a party of racist rednecks. ...-

Grit paparrazi stalking Tory MPs

Mike De Souza, CanWest News Service
Published: Sunday, August 20, 2006

OTTAWA -- A war of words has erupted between the federal Liberal party youth wing and some backbench Tory MPs over a candid-camera contest launched last week.

The young Liberals say they are looking for recent pictures of Conservative MPs who are rarely seen in public because they have a history of stirring up controversy that could embarrass their party.

"As much as (Prime Minister) Stephen Harper may try to keep these guys in the back, it's important that Canadians know that this is the real face of the Conservative party," said Richard Diamond, president of the Young Liberals of Canada.

The Liberals will give an iPod as a prize for the person who can offer the best picture of one of the seven Conservative MPs on their list -- Rob Anders, Cheryl Gallant, Rahim Jaffer, Collin Mayes, Bob Mills, Pierre Poilievre, and David Sweet. The contest runs until Sept. 4. ...-
http://www.paulding.net/bin/url.cgi/13382.4

Your lying liberano ass is showing there leftpig!
It looks like propaganda,
smells like propaganda,
it usually is ....

These liberal/socialists are truly scary - their hidden agenda is coming out and boy, what an agenda it is. Go PMSH!

Good grief, Leftdog, you are reaching to the moon and back, to try to convince that terror is not involved!

Just not believable.

Hezbollah's Nasrallah has gleefully promised that they plan on wiping Israel off the face of the planet, and they are fully backed by Iran and Syria.

3w unb.ca/web/bruns/9900/issue14/intnews/israel.

"There is no solution to the conflict in this region except with the disappearance of Israel," he told the crowd. "Peace settlements will not change reality, which is that Israel is the enemy and that it will never be a neighbor or a nation."

And now, some peculiarly-motivated Canadian Liberal, and NDP MPs now show remarkable, and distasteful alignments, as they rush to the side of the Hezbollah.

The Hezbollah is not a "NGO" nor is it a "relief agency".

They hand out money as payment to their people to put up with them, and their needs, until 'the job' is done.

Who is going to turn it down if their house is gone, or business? Those who are willing, or desperate, or believers in the cause.

They need to eat, and have cover again, and their real government of Lebanon is not effective.

It has been hamstrung by the Hezbollah, all out of proportion to its 2 elected members, because of the outside influences of Syria and Iran, (and threats, no doubt).

By definition, the Hezbollah cannot be a NGO with elected members of the government involved, unless you are trying to say that the political and military,(ahem terrorist) functions are NOT one and the same, as Borys W. did!

And by definition, a true relief agency does not kill people, even those it sees as the enemy, as part of its work.

And while this writer thinks that "things, and even those we label terrorists, can change over time.", what could it possibly mean, if the nation and people of Israel have been destroyed?

I guess we shouldn't be surprised to see the word, 'terrorist' be too strong for the left's tender ears.

Good grief, Leftdog, you are reaching to the moon and back, to try to convince that terror is not involved!

"All of this is true, and the terrorism as well."

Nice attempt at a strawman. Better luck next time.

Fear of hezbollah stalks/"eats" Kofi's UN Farce ...-

UN Peacekeepers Spring Into Action, Open Gates for Hizballah

Hizbollah pushes past guards in show of force. (Hat tip: Ethel.)

Hizbollah mourners on a funeral parade shoved aside anti-tank barriers at a United Nations base in Lebanon yesterday in a demonstration of their new political strength.

The party had been told it would be allowed to bury three “martyrs” at the Naqoura town cemetery inside the UN Interim Force in Lebanon (Unifil) compound, but only if there was no flag-waving or political sloganising.

When the chanting procession, several hundred strong, reached the gates, it found the way barred by cruci-form steel tank traps. Mourners argued with the French guards, but failed to gain entry.

A mob of young men then dragged the barriers away and the UN opened the gates. “They will eat us alive,” said a middle-aged official as the throng surged in.

Indeed they will. ...-
LGF

this from Eugene Robinson at washingtonpost.com:

"According to the Iraqi government, 3,438 civilians were killed in July, making it the bloodiest month since the invasion. The president was asked yesterday whether the failure of the U.S.-backed "unity" government to stem the orgy of sectarian carnage disappoints him, and he said that no, it didn't. How, I wonder, is that possible? Does he believe it would be a sign of weakness to admit that the flowering of democracy in Iraq isn't going exactly as planned? Does he believe saying everything's just fine will make it so? Is he in denial? Or do 3,438 deaths really just roll off his back after he's had his workout and a nice bike ride?"

the very sad and simple fact is dubya is a mass murderer in the interests of big oil.

and the rightist continue to sling mud and personal insult at 'moi' for pointing this out.

rightists hate ALL leftists; I only hate ONE rightist, and that would be g dubya the mass murderer 'war president'.

over 3,000 DEAD civilians in just one month. 'free to be dead' eh?

You lefties must really get bent out of shape over the "quotes" that regularly appear at Canadian Cynic and attributed to me and any number of others.

Now, make haste! See to it CC's roundly taken to task over the deceptive practice of paraphrasing others! And don't come back until you've got something really juicy to show us.

Reminds me of Colleen "Baghdad" Beaumier's trip to Iraq a few years ago where she met "his excellency" Tariq Aziz. Useful idiots indeed.

What is it about pols from the GTA. Why is it so many of the stupidest politicians I've ever seen anywhere come from this particular piece of real estate. Is it the need to pander to so many so many immigrants from non-western countries to the city, who often bring with a certain level of hostility to the west, that causes politicians to engage in such absurd levels of moral relativism.
Or is it something in the Lake Ontario water.

I don't think it's the water because I also drink it and it's had no effect on me. Now please excuse me for a moment while I play chess with my cat.

Hmmm a little point about your statistics there Robert....The 3000+ deaths this month are the result of Muslims killing other Muslims.

Oh ya, almost forgot, dumb ass!

Not a strawman at all. Yes, he uses the words, "terror" and "terrorist".

But he uses them as though there is some lesser heft, a minimalizing of impact, if only, if... only...the Israelis would just understand that they...yes, THEY, need to look at their neighbor, and its various sectors, in a different light.

As though the Israelis, need 'to make nice', to make the Middle east function in peace.

It won't do!

These guys in the Hezbollah and Hammas, and their collaborators, want Israel gone.

The writer can say that terror is used, but he cannot quite bring himself to say that Hezbollah is a "terrorist organization".

Until he can identify that personal reluctance, he has no business telling Israel to let down their guard.

"Is it a terrorist organization? No. Not because it doesn't engage in terror, but because its real power in the world of radical Islam, Israel-hate and America-hate, comes from this new model of the Islamic super-state."

I'm not going to read Mr. W's mind here, but that in itself is a logical error. Jaymeister 6:40 pm

Regarding the MSM quoting Borys, there's an all-too-brief clip that CTV is showing of Hizb'allah's Occidental Tourists viewing and photographing ruins with Borys saying, "There're massacres that took place. It's quite obvious that crimes were committed." It appears that the site is Qana, although maybe CTV was running stock footage of Qana before cutting to the MPs' guided tour. It's pretty obvious he is referring to Israel and crimes against humanity and not referring to war in general.

I wonder if we were reading the same article. What I got out of it was that the author feels that Hezbollah is an organization that uses terror but has other facets as well. I don't think he was suggesting that Israel "make nice" as much as to recognize that you'll never be able to just go out and kill all of those who will do you harm. This isn't a statist battle along nicely drawn lines. Ultimately there has to be a peace made between regional neighbours (Israel, Palestine, Lebanon) that isn't just a tenuous piece of paper. The long term solution will require a multi-pronged approach.

"The challenge we face is to respect our enemies enough to know how to hang onto what is ours. To be strong enough to fight them when they come to kill us. But to be strong enough, as well, to remain open to those who want to find a way to live and let us live as well."

There is nothing there about Israel letting down their guard.

Kate one could also look at Related at the bottom of your piece and insert How Colonial Annexationists Manipulate the Media. Or how they own the media and manipulate the public....or..well you get the point.

Was any reader of this blog as outraged when Conservative MPs appeared at events sponsored by supporters of the Mojahedin-E-Khalq, aka the People's Mojahedin of Iran, aka the National Council of Resistance of Iran, all of which are listed as terrorist groups by the US and Canadian governments?

Conservative MPs Paul Forseth and Stockwell Day are mentioned here.

Conservative MP Jason Kenney is featured here, standing proudly between large posters of the founders of a group labelled 'terrorist' by the US and Canada.

The Canadian government's designation of the MEK/PMOI as terrorist is here.

The American government's designation is here, where you can read that "The MEK advocates the violent overthrow of the Iranian regime. The MEK philosophy mixes Marxism, feminism, nationalism, and Islam."

Were Forseth, Day and Kenney--those evil 'supporters' of the 'terrorist' MEK--as worthy of outrage as Peggy N and Boris W?

If not, why not?

I do look forward to the most ingenious explanation.

sigh, yo mr missing link: the invasion was sold as a package where this wasnt going to happen !!!

the continuing deaths of muslim killing muslim is a consequence of the bushists BUNGLING THE WHOLE THING right from the start.

true motivation was wrong and methods are wrong = large casualty figures.

dubya is the dumb ass AND mass murderer.

by the way there mr link: your little trick of cut and paste a tiny portion of a huge article is PRECISELY the methods used by COMMUNIST LEADERSHIP HOPEFULS to discredit their rivals.

its called 'out of context', but you know that already, the tactic having been perfected and patented by the rightists.

Rather irresponsible headline.

leftdog

quoting articles from Haaretz (Israel's equivalent of the Toronto Star) doesn't do anything. what, did you just discover that there are delusional lefties in Israel too? (the country is full of them). Wow, you mean just like in Canada, everyone in Israel doesn't think the same way? is this some kind of revelation to you? Does it prove you right because some leftist Jews said so - the Jews who agree with you (the good Jews)

Wrzesnewskyj And Nash - "Death To Jews"

Seems to me that "Death To Jews" would be the consequence of accepting Hezbollah's political wing, akin to the acceptance of Hamas political wing. It is obvious that "Death To Jews" is not a quote from W or N.

Re: MP B.W.:

Kate. You're not making this up also, are you? I mean, you really sandbaggered me with that 'Eglin' thing-ee . . .

I nominate Bo W for the Reversing&Backpedalling Walter Duranty Useful Idiot Award (Politaical Pawn Divison) for 2006.

Guys like Borys W (BTW, what's wrong with Boris?) sure give the honest Ukies in Canada a bad, anti-semitic tinge. Probably why most good Ukie-Canucks refer th Mr B.W. as a 'bah-N'YIACQUE' and/or as a 'doo-ROCK'. In order of appearance: a lidless pot, or a doltish foll.

Wot a mah ROUN!

Is there not some kind of protocol whereby members of Parliament must have approval from Foreign Affairs before embarking on an official trip.
It seems to me that the proper course would have been for these three to report when they got back to Canada. They would have then been free to say whatever they want, but to stand on foreign soil and declare that they are ashamed to be Canadian, is very distasteful.
This goes far beyond their personal views of the conflict, of which they only saw one side.

Stephen, do you remember the Canadian photo-journalist,Kazemi, who was arrested, tortured, and eventually killed while in prison in Iran?

3w cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2005/05/26/iran050526.

Day was the opposition critic for foreign affairs at the time. He had tried, with her son, to get her out in time.

Day had this to say about the Liberal government's timing of asigning this designation to the group:

"Day says the timing of the announcement, just 48 hours after Iran told Canada to stop interfering in their investigation of the Kazemi case, will be interpreted by Tehran as a capitulation.

He questioned why a group that has existed for 40 years should only become terrorist now nearly two years after it announced it was laying down its arms.

"The timing and the intelligence around this is strange to say the least."

Terrorist listings get reviewed and appealed regularly. Time is usually one factor in re-examining matters, for a new government.

There is lots to read, to try to understand this particular group which includes- as a member- the one you listed, at their link:

3w ncr-iran.org/

Note especially the news releases, and photos of dissidents being hung this summer, to understand what they are up against, the intricacies of the U.S. and Iraq interplay, and the new dangers with Iran's new government.

The terrorist designation was given before the newest leader took his place in Iran....yes, that one in the news every day now.

Iraq gave the group a safe place to meet, until the latest twists and turns. It is all there to read.

Note the other countries and elected representatives in, democracies, that have come forward to *support* the group:

"For over two decades, the Iranian Resistance has ceaselessly endeavored to raise public awareness around the world of the clerical regime's crimes against the Iranian people, and provided information to parliaments and international organizations. Resistance activists in countries throughout the world established ties with members of parliament, political dignitaries, intellectuals, labor unions, state representatives, mayors, etc., to inform them of the regime's crimes and introduce the National Council of Resistance of Iran (NCRI).

The NCRI is today widely recognized as the only viable democratic alternative to the mullahs' regime in Iran. Thousands of parliamentarians, political leaders, parties and social figures have expressed their support for the National Council of Resistance and the Mojahedin. Majorities in the U.S. Congress and several parliaments in Europe, including Britain's House of Commons, Italy's Camera dei Deputati, Belgium's Chambre des Représentants, Luxembourg's parliament, among others, have issued joint statements on several occasions, declaring their support for the NCRI and the Mojahedin resistance movement in Iran."

~~~

So, I guess the answer to your question is the timing of the designation by the Liberal government, same period Day was an opposition critic...and the particular event of Kazemi's imprisonment.

The U.S. has its own complexities with their dance in Iraq, and Iraq formerly supporting this group against Iran.

There is no gotcha...lots of breakthroughs to find, though.

And this group did not have as a goal, the elimintion of an entire nation, like Hezbollah does.

Good thread Kate.

RE leftdog, "lawsuits - lawsuits -lawsuits -lawsuits - oh the lawyers are gonna love this!!!!"

oooooooooooooooh the lawyer threat.

There must be some liberals up against a wall again.

I gotta say that IMH and biased opinion some of the lefties here on sda sound like Harvard or Yale grads.

leftdog, are you an American moonbat with no job who believes nirvana can be reached in conjunction with a big settlement?

FYI Canadian courts do not award big settlements like the USA does even when there is real physical injury.

By the way, according to Wrz's staff,

"Just to reiterate, Mr. Wrznewskyj paid for the trip out of his own pocket.
Regards,
Stan

Stan Granic
Parliamentary Assistant
Borys Wrzesnewskyj, M.P."

That is, according to his staff, the trip was not funded by the Arab organization. I suspect, possibly without foundation, a 'cover-up'. I can't imagine an elected representative going on a trip, as an official (a member of the Liberal Party) and paying for it privately. I would expect that trip to be paid by his expense account.

But - according to 'Stan', the trip was 'out of his own pocket'. What does this mean? From his expense account or from his salary/

Robert J

I am not sure why you are stuck on something that has already happened. This is typical of the socialist to always look backward instead of offering up something realistic to fix current realities. I suggest you look closely at the casualty figures out of Iraq. It has nothing to do with the US presence and everything to do with ethic hatred. The only thing stopping all-out slaughter are the coalition forces, accept it, live with it, move forward.

I am not sure what 'cut & paste' link you are refering to as I did not attach anything to my last email.

Steve Janke has an interesting angle today on B.W.'s trip and his stated purpose for going.

He also has a good post on Jason Kenney's position re: Canadian appeasers of Hezbolla.

LeftDog, when this pathetic threat of a lawsuit doesn't materialize, do come back so we can laugh at your zero credibility for your childish little lawyer rant that went NOWHERE.

Until then, go back to playing in your sandbox at CATNIPs blog.

Wrzesnewskyj And Nash - "Death To Jews"

The 2 MP's did not say those words. The owner of this site may feel that it is a-okay to put her own interpretation on what she would like you to think they said.

The 2 MP's did not say those words at any time, in any published or verbal form.

What does matter is that there is likely a very extreme ideological rationale that motivated the idividual to make up a false quote.

She should apolgize. If not, well that says that lies and falsehoods can be expected on this blogsite. If that does not matter to you, well, shame on you.

Buffalo Bean

I do recall the case of Kazemi: a brutal example of the Iranian regime's conduct.

I am also aware the human rights groups like HRW and Amnesty have called for fair trails of MEK/PMOI members (or alleged members) in Iran: they are right to do so.

That the MEK wants to get rid of the regime in Iran seems to me beside the point: Canada's terrorism legislation, as I have read it, does not contain escape clauses for terrorism carried out in a 'just cause' or 'for a good reason': terrorism is terrorism.

The US State Department report I cited above says this, among other things, about the MEK:

In 1991, the MEK reportedly assisted the Government of Iraq in suppressing the Shia uprisings in southern Iraq and the Kurdish uprisings in the north. In April 1992, the MEK conducted near-simultaneous attacks on Iranian embassies and installations in 13 countries, demonstrating the group’s ability to mount large-scale operations overseas.

The bloody suppression of the Kurdish uprisings, you'll recall, is the crime for which Saddam Hussein is making the papers these days, while near-simultaneous attacks on embassies, you'll also recall, has since made it into the playbook of Al'Qaeda.

One of the lessons of America's, Saudi Arabia's and Pakistan's abysmal policy toward Afghanistan in the 1980s is that you shouldn't back extremist terrorist groups, just because they happen to be currently aiming their rockets and guns at your enemy (the Soviet Union): some of the extremist terrorists backed by Washington, Riyadh and Islamabad (though not all anti-Soviets were extremists, by any means) went on to savage the country for years after the Soviet withdrawal, and help lay the groundwork for the Taliban (with continuing help from within Pakistan).

If we're against terrorism, we should be against all terrorism, not just the terrorism aimed at us or countries whose regimes we like.

That's why I don't see that Ahmadinejad's outrageous comments have anything to do with when or whether the MEK should be called a terrorist group, nor do I find anything very surprising or informative at the NCRI website you mentioned: I'm rather skeptical that the claims made are self-serving. Naturally, they're going to try to win support in the west by playing up issues that resonate here (nuclear weapons, human rights).

Clearly, those issues exist with respect to Iran (and other countries), but is their mention by NCRI/MEK really informing us about whether or not it or its allied groups belong on a terrorist list where they currently reside?

Let's look forward to a press conference featuring the stars of the Farce called "Three Stooges go to Lebanon". The media twits will have it all planned by now, questions set up to clarify all the misunderstandings and all will again be right with their world.

Stephen offered:

"That the MEK wants to get rid of the regime in Iran seems to me beside the point: Canada's terrorism legislation, as I have read it, does not contain escape clauses for terrorism carried out in a 'just cause' or 'for a good reason': terrorism is terrorism."

And:

"If we're against terrorism, we should be against all terrorism, not just the terrorism aimed at us or countries whose regimes we like."

And:

"Clearly, those issues exist with respect to Iran (and other countries), but is their mention by NCRI/MEK really informing us about whether or not it or its allied groups belong on a terrorist list where they currently reside?"

I used the NCRI link, that you provided, in your initial post to see what your source was. When I went to it, I realized that I had seen it before in a discussion about who supplied the information about Iran's nuclear progress.

It is a link with a wealth of information, that can be easily substantiated from other reputable (Western/European) sources, since this group meets with Western world leaders and groups regularly.

I appreciate the type of question you have added, for it makes research thoroughly interesting.

It brings us to ask how things happened to get us to where we are now. It is all good to discover and debate, and most importantly, to reassess from time to time.

In regard to your valid points re terrorist list components, I have no doubt that groups are added to this list, for reasons that can be both quite clear at the time, and ....eventually quite muddied, as the other motives start bubbling up to the surface.

Reading about this group specifically, we both accept that Iran is not one to take lightly where human rights are concerned.

Those of us in The West, are now playing catch-up with trying to understand some/any of the angles at play, between the various tribes, sects, and old enemies/alignments in the Middle East.

We know that they sometimes fight with one another, yet may fight side by side, depending on the issue, and who is being attacked.

In reading about this specific group 'earning' its asignment to the terror list in our country, and that of the U.S., there may be some questions arising about the motivation to do so at the time, considering the relationships to the Iranian leadership of the day.

The lists are reassessed for whether that application holds, hopefully. This is one that perhaps needs reassessment. That terrorist acts have been done by one member of their group makes that more problematic, to be sure.

But everything to do with the Middle East these days is problematic and challenging and complex, so complex.

The key for me remains that this group does *not* have, as a mandate, the *elimination* of a country and its people.

That they went about it, in the beginning, in some manner that aligns with acts of terror, is the point that comes back to bite them.

We can allow folks to read the vast amounts of information available to see for themselves, but the NCRI site that you provided, for me, is not to be discounted lightly.

The president-elect of that group, a woman, has good reason to be in a struggle for democracy in Iran(a fact which you agree with).

I have included it here for other readers who may, with us, love learning the wider picture.

3w maryam-rajavi.com/content/view/34/59/

"Rajavi began her activities during the anti-shah movement in early 1970s, as one of the leaders of the student movement while studying at the University.

The Shah's regime executed one of her sisters, Narges, and the Khomeini regime murdered another, Massoumeh, who died under torture in 1982 while eight months pregnant. Massoumeh's husband, Massoud Izadkhah, was also executed."

ET, don't let your personal bias blind you to the idea of Borys dipping into his personal savings to pay for the trip. If a Conservative MP used his/her own resources to go on a politically-motivated trip, would you be as sceptical? More likely you'd be pointing out the savings to the Canadian taxpayer.

Quite the partisan position, but perhaps that's the point. There is no place for unemotional, rational discussion and debate in partisan politics... much less any real desire for a negotiated peace settlement in this horrid conflict. That's where the hapless Borys went wrong, believing there was.

TangoJuliette, re your question of Borys vs Boris, what's wrong with using the spelling on a person's birth certificate? BTW, why aren't you TangoJuliet?

So many self-righteous idiots frothing at the mouth here. Then again, maybe the headline was designed to invite it. Talk about manipulation. But hey, it keeps that hit counter ticking. Congratulations, Kate.

"Death to Jews" is an unjustified and sensationalistic headline. Mean while, I bet the Israeli Jews would like nothing more to round up all Arab Israelis and Palestinians into camps built by their own forced labour, then exterminate them for good. And then use their nuclear arsenal to bomb out a good chunk of land in surrounding countries, along with Iran and Syria, to create a militarized buffer zone like a medieval moat so they can finally live in isolated peace.

ah123 : No, the Israelis would not do such a thing, you seem to forget they are not radicals filled with hate. They are a tiny democratic state surrounded by people who hate them and want them driven into the sea, constantly forced to defend themselves. Their restraint is remarkable, given their power. Have to wonder just how much more they can endure from the scumbags of the world. Medieval more aptly describes much of the Islamic world and a big reason we are fighting the scourge of terrorism.

Sad really, how little so many understand of current events. Since when is it deomcratic to harrass someon for their opinion. Especially when the organization in question is not the terror machine Israeli apologists like to make it out to be. Some facts that many either do not know or ignore:

1. Hizbullah started in response to Israel's prior occupation of Southern Lebanon.

2. only 6 countries call them terrorists

3. They have elected officials and run many social services.

5. The military action by Israel was approved by Washington a year prior.

6. According to the UN, skirmishes instigated by both sides have been occuring ever since Israel finally withdrew in 2000 and prisoner swaps have happened before

7. Bombing a country does not aissit in the safety of imprisoned soldiers but jeopardises them

8. Many Israeli's and Jews around the world have condemned this war and a number of soldiers refused to serve.

Anyone who can condone what happened in Lebanon are heartless monsters who are racially prejudice against arabs, something equally as evil as being prejudice agains the jewsih people. If anyone's head is in the sand it is those who support the Israei campaign of aggression. try finding out facts before you speak or type.

Sad really, how little so many understand of current events. Since when is it deomcratic to harrass someon for their opinion. Especially when the organization in question is not the terror machine Israeli apologists like to make it out to be. Some facts that many either do not know or ignore:

1. Hizbullah started in response to Israel's prior occupation of Southern Lebanon.

2. only 6 countries call them terrorists

3. They have elected officials and run many social services.

5. The military action by Israel was approved by Washington a year prior.

6. According to the UN, skirmishes instigated by both sides have been occuring ever since Israel finally withdrew in 2000 and prisoner swaps have happened before

7. Bombing a country does not aissit in the safety of imprisoned soldiers but jeopardises them

8. Many Israeli's and Jews around the world have condemned this war and a number of soldiers refused to serve.

Anyone who can condone what happened in Lebanon are heartless monsters who are racially prejudice against arabs, something equally as evil as being prejudice agains the jewsih people. If anyone's head is in the sand it is those who support the Israei campaign of aggression. try finding out facts before you speak or type.

Sad really, how little so many understand of current events. Since when is it deomcratic to harrass someon for their opinion. Especially when the organization in question is not the terror machine Israeli apologists like to make it out to be. Some facts that many either do not know or ignore:

1. Hizbullah started in response to Israel's prior occupation of Southern Lebanon.

2. only 6 countries call them terrorists

3. They have elected officials and run many social services.

5. The military action by Israel was approved by Washington a year prior.

6. According to the UN, skirmishes instigated by both sides have been occuring ever since Israel finally withdrew in 2000 and prisoner swaps have happened before

7. Bombing a country does not aissit in the safety of imprisoned soldiers but jeopardises them

8. Many Israeli's and Jews around the world have condemned this war and a number of soldiers refused to serve.

Anyone who can condone what happened in Lebanon are heartless monsters who are racially prejudice against arabs, something equally as evil as being prejudice agains the jewsih people. If anyone's head is in the sand it is those who support the Israei campaign of aggression. try finding out facts before you speak or type.