So why does Israel always end up being the bad guys. The answer is quite simple....Bad PR with the wrong effort being put into endearment.

It's not enough to be right. You have to prove you're right, not with rhetoric but by deeds and action.

Hezbollah has done everything right, they've placed a helpful compassionate protective wing over the southern Lebanese when nobody else seemed interested in doing so. This has made them fiercely popular. What has Israel done, dropped leaflets from the sky...sheesh what arrogance.

Israel and Jewery have to reinvent themselves into a more user friendly country/religion. That is their only hope. They simply must eradicate their superiority complex for real change to occur.

The same people who support Hezbollah and vilify Israel also protest against NAFTA, regardless of its proven benefits to Canada.

Deeds, actions and reinventions pale besides invented/distorted self-images of anti-establishment heroes 'fighting', (but not too close to the action), for the underdog.

"...Hezbollah has done everything right, they've placed a helpful compassionate protective wing over the southern Lebanese when nobody else seemed interested in doing so."

And Hitler and the Nazis provided full employment in Germany.

What a remarkably, stunningly, morally, factually bankrupt statement from Mr. Brown.

Israel and Jewery have to reinvent themselves into a more user friendly country/religion.

Sweetie, you are a raving lunatic.

In front of your nose, my friend, is the Death Cult with it's murder, mayhem, jihad, dhimmitude and all manner of intolerance and you think non-proselytizing and tolerant Judaism needs to be more user friendly?

Your anti-semitism has twisted reality for you to a point that you reside in a parallel universe.

Hezbollah, you twit, has put the lives of the very people that they imposed themselves upon in grave danger by lobbing rockets for months at Israeli civilians with impunity. So much for their concern about the women and children they they've endangered in Lebanon. They're too craven to remove themselves from the civilian population.

Israel has to stop being so nice and start telling the truth about Muslims. Not Hezbollah but Islam. The reason that so many innocent people did not leave is because they are not innocent. They support the Hez and as cult members they seek to die the death of a defender of the faith.
Muslims see Jews as cowards unwilling to die for their beliefs. Israel needs to comply with the saying.... when in Rome do as the Romans. They need to designate all muslims as valid targets the same as the Muslims desgnate all non muslims as valid targets. In war you do not say you will only target one segment of the enemy, you target the enemy and all it's capacity to make war not just it's guns...... guns don't kill people, people kill people. Target the people instead of the guns and muslims will understand that you mean bussiness. Any other modus operendi is futile and usless. Being nice is a choice just as being mean is a choice.

I think it's natural for the local people to support Hezbollah; after all - what else is there in their immediate environment other than these people who are, remember, their neighbors and their family members.

Michele Malkin and EU Referendum are taking a close and suspicious look at the claims of the 'Qana massacre' and more data is emerging to show that it was a staged photo-op by Hezbollah.
This is very important - for the agenda is to move Iran in as the saviour of the region.

I suspect this photo-op is not for the propaganda of the West as much as it is for the Arab States who are shrinking back from this conflict: Egypt, Jordan, Iraq, SA...
After all, the West is largely against Israel anyway - and photos like this add support to those opinions.

But, Iran wants a war in the region; it wants to move Syria back into Lebanon - and not have the other Arab states say a word against this. And, it wants to move itself into dominance - and not have the other arab states reject them.

I'm speculating..but...

Having been caught TWKICE- using fake CANADIAN Passports- ( after previously having been assurred that you would not do this any more)- do not expect any sympathy from this CANADIAN- okay?

Differing Perspectives

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060801/ap_on_re_mi_ea/lebanon_israel_655;_ylt=AlsN0r8q0s6JPeMUxhO8ZEQUvioA;_ylu=X3oDMTBiMW04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl

Heavy fighting raged Tuesday in the Lebanese border village of Aita al-Shaab, and Hezbollah television said 35 Israeli soldiers had been killed or wounded in the fighting. Israeli warplanes pounded Shiite Lebanese villages in many areas along the border and struck Hezbollah strongholds deep inside the country.

Israel Defense Forces troops engaged in heavy exchanges of fire with Hezbollah fighters in southern Lebanese village of Ayta a-Shab, near Zarit, on Tuesday.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/745131.html

A unit of paratroop soldiers have been operating in the village since Monday. The IDF said Tuesday that four Hezbollah guerillas were hit in the clashes, and that all had apparently been killed.

An IDF soldier was lightly hurt in Maroun A-Ras, also in southern Lebanon. He was evacuated to hospital in Safed.

OK, someone is lying here, I wonder who? However, both are agreed that 4 H'bollah are dead.

nemo: benefits of nafta ???

like, the benefits accrued by the americans whilst certain senators in lumber producing states lobbby and insert amendments to bills (doesnt matter what bill) creating the softwood lumber fiasco ??? those the 'benefits' you referring to ???

I dont think its any secret here that I have issues with the way Israel is conducting its campaign. However, while reading this, I couldnt quite come to terms with the author's grasp, or lack thereof, of the situation.

"Some locals stayed because they couldn’t afford to leave. I read that Lebanese taxis charge $1000 to go to Beirut. So someone please explain to me why these locals didn’t hide in a building where there were no rockets or any ammo dumps?"

How anybody expects civilians to turn back machine gun toting militants is beyond me. Frankly you ve got a better chance surviving an Israeli bomb than a militant Hizbollah willing to dispatch you to heaven.

Also, theres that case of not being able to escape. Someone on this very board was venting against the UN because Chinese UN engineers were repairing roads. The problem is that you need roads to get out. You cant destroy them and say "Get out of here".

Its also become quite apparent that the Israelis arent being particularly careful about their targetting. The Sri Lankan embassy has advised many Sri Lankans to avoid travelling in convoys, or on the road. And recently, British and Australian journalists came under fire despite being in contact with the Israels. In other words, its dangerous for them to get to Beirut and the Israelis arent making any guarantees.

3 weeks into the war, and I m not sure if the Israelis can even say they re winning yet. The innocents will continue to die. WE will continue to write them off as collateral damage, because frankly, muslim lives are not as valuable as Jewish lives, to most people here.

Davie,

I suspect you wouldn't have any sympathy for Da Joos in any case.

You're argument is also specious. If Mossad is supposed to blend in with the terrorists, what other passport would they use? Your liberal a$$holes gave Canadian passports to every islamofascist terrorist who wanted one so what other passports would you use to infiltrate them?

Brown:

Hezbollah is a terrorist organization. What is it going to take before they get bad PR? I suppose deliberately killing women and children isn't enough for you because they only target Da Joos?

How bout you both just F.O.A.D.

Robert J: A few years old, admittedly, but still valid:
http://www.fraserinstitute.ca/shared/readmore.asp?sNav=nr&id=409

Or do you believe that approximately 85% of our trade is overshadowed by (expected) disagreements? (And Canada does, in effect, with low stumpage fees, subsidize softwood lumber).

Are you kidding davie? Canadian passports are meaningless, Canada's been littering the world with them for years. It doesn't bother me at all if good guys, our allies, like the Israelis need to use them in their fight against the forces of evil. There's sure as hell plenty of Islamic terrorists travelling around on Canadian passports. How many Canadian passports did that scuzzy Khazar family "lose" when they were back visiting muslim countries? Ten? Twelve? I hope we will secretly provide the Israelis with some blanks that include any new security features. Maybe we can trade help with fake Canadian passports in return for Israeli intelligence on terrorist threats to Canada.

"Israel and Jewery [sic] have to reinvent themselves into a more user friendly country/religion. That is their only hope. They simply must eradicate their superiority complex for real change to occur."

This statement by David Brown shows what a PR-conscious, image-only-counts, lieberal dimwit he is.

If Israel and Jewry "reinvent themselves," as he suggests, they cease to be Israel and Jewry. DB is saying "Change your image, guys, and the world will love you. Pretend you're not who you are and all bad PR will stop." In other words, be wimps and cowards and the rest of the wimps and cowards in the world will slap you on the back and say "Way to go! Now you're one of us."

I don't think so.

Then DB disingenuously suggests that Israel and Israelis "eradicate their superiority complex." That's a pretty tall order. How are they to do this? Are they supposed to stop being good at what they're good at so that "the world," which always loves a loser and an underdog, will applaud their "victim" status?

This is always the liberal solution: Reinvent yourself, your party, your cause, into being "the victim" and watch world opinion rush to your defence.

I'm with Dennis Prager when he says "'World opinion' will never do a thing for
you. Never." 'Like it didn't for "1.5 million Armenians massacred by the Ottoman Turks; 6 million Ukrainians slaughtered by Stalin; or the tens of millions of other Soviet citizens killed by Stalin's Soviet Union; or the 6 million Jews murdered by the Nazis and their helpers throughout Europe; or the 60 million Chinese butchered by Mao; or the 2 million Cambodians murdered by Pol Pot; or the millions killed and enslaved in Sudan; or the Tutsis murdered in Rwanda's genocide; or the millions starved to death and enslaved in North Korea; or the million Tibetans killed by the Chinese; or the million-plus Afghans put to death by Brezhnev's Soviet Union." (jewishworldreview.com/0806/prager080106.php3)

And the list goes on and on.

Truth and doing the right thing count for something, David Brown. If you're "a useful idiot," however, I guess you'll never understand this and you'll continue to expect those fighting for the right to exist and to maintain the only democracy anywhere nearby to dumb themselves down to the "victim" status of their neighbours and to position themselves for a nice photo-op.

The recent event at Qana brings out the falsity of the argument that the locals are unable to get out because of destroyed roads and bridges. It appears the the worldwide MSM had no trouble at all getting into Qana immediately to attend H'bollah's afteraction show.

Would everyone please just stop addressing specifics in David Brown's comments and just take it for what it is...a troll putting out some outrageously ignorant comments looking for a reaction. Look at it this way, his sentence structure and spelling are very good so I don't think he's stupid. Think about it, how could someone truly believe in the analysis of the situation that he put forth.

I have been watching the live coverage of the meeting this a.m. where Peter Mac is appearing before the "inquisition" committee as regrards the Middle East.

He has put forth the position of Canada very well and has not waivered in what is/has been the position of the gov't re the current Middle East Crisis so far.

Is the gov't position different from that of the likes of MacDunna/McTeague and their liberal/NDP backers? Of course it is. The Canadian government is finally taking a strong/unwaivering position compared to the last 40 years of Fluff or the so-called nuanced position of being all things to all people and not a whole lot to anyone in particular (except of course for all manner of minorities).

Forget all of the academic/philosophical/whatever arguements. Relevent of course at times - but there is a time when reality must kick in and people must stand up and be counted.

It is time that Canadians stand up and be counted - now. Either we are for the stand of the present government or we are not. The world stage now has us in a situation where it is impacting Canada and it is time for a show down within Canada.

Either the majority in Canada take the country back or we resign to forever being ruled by a group of tightly woven minorites supporting the Liberal/NDP policies. I do not want the latter.

Either this country is run by a majority Conservative Government or it goes back to being run by the Liberals/NDP. There is absolutely no room for fence sitters right now in terms of the Middle East policy. Let the people decide in a national referendum - i.e. a vote in the house that will clearly be considered of vote of confidence (or not).

If there is going to be fall/spring vote of non-confidence - then let it be about the entire Middle East Question - what has been the policy during this crisis - what is the policy as it is shaping up at the time of the vote, and what it is likely to be going forward. This is not about political gamesmanship - it is about the future of the social fabric of Canada.

Let's not have a non-confidence vote about softwood lumber or some other lesser issue that pales in comparision to what is at stake for Canada as a nation. All Canadians should have a say in the handling of the Middle East Crisis - not just those elected under the current political system.

The last 40 years of Immigration/Refugee/Heritage/Multiculturalism/Human Rights/IRB legislation and policies have put us into a position where a national referendum can be justified on the Middle East Question. We should be happy that at least Canada has time to do something constructive to avoid the position of a number of other countries who have so sold out to minority rule that the minority has now in fact become the majority (or close to it)in those countries.

An apt caricature of the mighty H'bollah.

http://www.caglecartoons.com/images/preview/%7B0C30E586-1FEE-44A4-BB95-4338231DA4E8%7D.gif

Short and to the point.

I'm against national referendums on these questions, calgary clipper. Aristotle warned about the 'moods of the masses'. After all, that's essentially what the Liberals did; their policies were determined by polls, not by principles.

The average Canadian hasn't been educated in either issue. Most Canadians have never heard of the phrase 'stumpage fees' - and that's the root cause of the softwood dispute. Can you imagine- the basic cause of the dispute is completely unknown to the vast majority of Canadians. They instead conclude that the basic cause is the evil nature of the USA. Such a conclusion was quite useful for the election strategies of the Liberals but shouldn't be used as a basic for international decisions.

Equally, most Canadians don't know enough about the complex issues of the Middle East and again, a government should be basing its decisions on knowledge and principles. Not opinion.

"Its also become quite apparent that the Israelis arent being particularly careful about their targetting."
This is a war. Get it? Bombs going off, explosions. People will die accidentally and on purpose. Not all munitions are smart weapons. The majority are not.

The Israelis should be held to the same standard as its enemies. As far as i can understand it, that is the point of the Geneva conventions. When the one side continually and on purpose does not follow any laws of war, they are open to full retaliation.
enough

Polls are not referendum. For the most part the educated will vote whereas everyone gets polled regardless of intention to vote.

We found it neccessary to elect someone to go across the country, a voyage that would take weeks and they would by neccessity be gone for months. We have instantaneous communications, we travel in hours and we do not have to trust a representative to do what they think best for us. We can tell them as it happens or speak for ourselves in a referendum.

We are not children, this is our country. We need to take ownership of our government. The government does not own us, the government is us.
enough

enough - I disagree with you that only the educated vote. Both educated and uneducated vote. I also disagree that everyone gets polled. The majority do not get polled.

Representative government is just that; we elect a representative to govern. We do not individually run the gov't and we comment on their choices by letter, by phone, by blogs, by email and by elections. The MSM comments on their choices. Are the MSM journalists expressing our opinons accurately?
A representative gov't means that we elect them to make the decisions.

A government cannot operate according to the wishes of this first group, or that second group, or this third group or this fourth group - each of whom considers that they alone have the 'right conclusions'. There is no such thing as a 33 million population who all have the same conclusions.

And most certainly, the majority of Canadians are lacking the knowledge base to make decisions about, for example, softwood lumber and the ME. Again, I am astonished how many people have never heard of 'stumpage fees'.

Equally, why is it that Canadians for the most part, never question the assertion by the Liberals and MSM of the value of the long gun registry because it is 'accessed 5,000 times a day'. The fact that this is completely false - doesn't even occur to most people.

ET
Agreed - the last thing I would want to see is a referendum or an election about Softwood Lumber or a whole lot of other issues that would be more about political gamesmanship than about the issue per se - For all of the reasons you mentioned plus a whole lot more.

Sooooo - is it your contention that only those "academically trained people" are capable of having a well thought out position as regards the Middle East policy of Canada because they are the only ones who "truly understand" the situation as it affects Canada. How much more condescendingly elite does it get.

The national referendum at the time of the National Unity question served its purpose. The Middle East issue in its own way is also becoming a question of Canadian national unity. If the issue is right - the silent majority will become involved.

In any event - I'm not talking about a national referendum much less polls.

I'm talking about a federal election - sooner rather than later - and if it is to be because of a non-confidence motion, let it be one about Canada's foreign policy as regards the Middle East.

calgary clipper -
No, it is most certainly NOT the academically trained people who are necessarily the most knowledgeable about the ME. Many of them are socialists and mentally bogged down in the concepts of 'victim' and 'anti-capitalist' and so on.

But equally, it is most certainly not the average man on the street, whose information source is primarily the MSM - or the lecture hall - who has any knowledge.

I think it has to be our government, guided by a variety of information sources from experts of various backgrounds and ideologies. I, frankly, would trust our current CPC government to make a 'just decision', while I would not trust either the Liberals or NDP or the Bloc. All of these three would vote against Harper's ME policy, but, they won't vote against it, until they themselves are ready for an election.

I don't see what the ME has to do with Canadian national unity.

I don't think a federal election should be held until, the earliest, the fall of 2007 and better,2008. I think we have a remarkable government in place now, and want it to continue, even as the MSM, daily, relentlessly, tries to bring it down.

John and others,

I'm not a troll and I'm not being outrageous for the sake of looking for a reaction.

I'm also not an Anti-Semite. What have I said that is hateful? I believe that Israel and Jewery have every right to a peaceful existence. It's just they're obviously not going about it in the correct manner.

All I've said is that Hezbollah is doing a better job at winning the hearts and minds of the southern Lebanese people. It's a fact not a judgement.

I think the major players have to look at this branding of terrorist organizations and maybe start communicating with them.

The west is not winning the war by any stretch of the imagination and in fact things are getting worse. It's high time to lose the arrogance and start listening.

I can see these words on the page, so David Brown has to have written them, but I can barely believe my eyes:

"I think the major players have to look at this branding of terrorist organizations and maybe start communicating with them."

David, have you never heard the very-valid expression: "You can't negotiate with a terrorists," which I will expand to "You can never negotiate with terrorists."?

Where have you been in the past 15 years: Israel has communicated with Hezbollah and Hamas, the U.S. has communicated with Hezbollah and Hamas, the U.N. has communicated with Hezbollah and Hamas...

Do they EVER listen?

Update from Qana, aka Cana: "things" are going from worse to bad.

Red Cross says 28; obviously 29 are missing/in/action.

The Red Crescent report will clear this confusion. ...-

Red Cross publishes that 28 corpses evacuated from Qana, contrary to Lebanese reports that 57 people were killed Lebanon .... ynet

david - what does the word 'Jewery' mean? I'm not aware that it's in any dictionary. Do you mean Jews?

What do you mean by 'branding of terrorist organizations'? Do you mean that it's wrong to name them as 'terrorist'? What name should be given to them?

Actually, I think your facts are wrong about the 'hearts and minds' of southern Lebanese belonging to the Hezbollah. Many don't want them there, as they don't want to be involved with their agenda.

What do you mean by 'communicate with them'? The Hezbollah and Hamas organizations have an agenda, only one agenda. What is there to communicate about? They have communicated this agenda; and therefore, there is nothing more for them to say.

Which war are you talking about? The Israeli-Palestine conflict? The Islamic fascist agenda of world terrorism? The Iranian agenda of ME power? Which war?

We are, in my opinion, certainly winning the fascist war - but it will take time.
The Iranian agenda of ME domination will have to be dealt with by the ME states.
The Israeli-Palestinian situation has been sabotaged by both Islamic fascism and the Iranian agenda.

Could you explain what you mean by 'arrogance' and provide some examples? Even one?

Start listening? To what? To Bin Laden informing us that he wants us all dead? To the Iranian President informing us that the Holocaust never happened and he also, wants us all dead? To other imams preaching the same?
What is it that you are suggesting that we listen to?

new kid,

My knowledge of the situation is that the USA does not negotiate with terrorists. I take that to mean they do not communicate with them either. If you have hard evidence to the contrary I would like to see it.

I'm not saying we should give in to their demands. All I know as a contract negotiator is that if you fire missiles and launching warplanes at somebody, that is what you'll get back. However, if you communicate well (no matter how tough the client) and create trust it's amazing the results that can be obtained.

It's time we consider lulling these terrorists as missiles and rockets aren't working and in fact are antagonizing them into greater violence.

"All I know as a contract negotiator is that if you fire missiles and launching warplanes at somebody, that is what you'll get back"

Conveniently forgetting shitzbullah invaded, murdered and kidnapped IDF soldiers I see.

Never said that ONLY the educated vote. And by educated, I do not mean university educated or such. For the most part the woefully ignorant and the ones with no interest in more than themselves will not bother to vote. The ones who vote are generally going to be middle class or upper class.

We have a representative government. We do not elect them to make all decisions in a vacuum. We elect them but expect them to represent us and our ideals. Bread and circuses is not what we want but giving all responsibility over to those elected will get us just that.

The referendum on the Charlottetown Accord was approved by most politicians. The ignorant masses managed to call that one correctly.

Why should someone in Saskatchewan care about stumpage fees? Joe Blow in BC working in a hospital also has little concern.

The MSM works on the same principles as advertising. We all know we are being pandered to, yet we still watch advertising. When a company blows an advertising campaign crap happens. The MSM spouts their liberal nonsense and will continue until we force a change. This change is already happening with declining newspaper circulation, TV news declines etc. In the meantime, the sheep will keep listening until they wake up.

We need more gradual change. More examples of good government. Until people realise what good government looks like, they will keep re-electing the people that gives them flash over substance. The government has operated by pandering to all the groups. It seemed to work in the past. The Liberals and the NDP still think it will in the future.
enough

Hey David Brown, what say ISLAM reinvents itself so as to become more palatable to the rest of the world? Hmmmmmm???

This is where you and your limp-wristed ilk fall flat on your sissy faces and garner the label of "anti semite". (By telling the victim to kiss the bully's ass).

Call a spade a spade dufuss: Israel is the good guy. Hezbollah are TERRORISTS. Why can't you lefties compute this simple math? There IS such thing as black/white, right/wrong, despite what the touchy-feely pussy leftists tell you.

Is that why in the playground so many side with the bully? (don't rock the boat or he'll kick your ass too) Same goes for islamofacist terrorist scum, are you afraid to stand up to evil, or do you think that telling "jewery" to shut up and take their lumps your friendly neighborhood "Allahu Ahkbar" will not see you as an infidel? Give your head a shake, he'd just as soon slit your throat as a Jew's because you a weak horse decadent westerner and useful idiot in the advance of their convoluted "cause".

david brown - a terrorist group is not the same as a workers' union. It has nothing to negotiate; it has only one agenda - to drive you out. To negotiate with them gives them legitimacy as valid representatives of the people. They aren't valid representatives.

Would you negotiate with a criminal gang who demand that the police never enter 'their' section of town, and who demand 'safe protection fees' from the people who live in that section? Or would you move in and take them out, and give the town back to the people?

Terrorists are criminals. They have no validity as representatives of the people.

"I believe that Israel and Jewery have every right to a peaceful existence. It's just they're obviously not going about it in the correct manner."

Attention all Arabs who hate Israel and want Israel to be destroyed. This is Israel speaking, we just want to be your friend.

More correct manner, yes, David??

Let me get this straight mr. brown. Terrorists fire literally thousands of rockets into your country from a section of land that you previously occupied in order to prevent such a thing from happening in the first place, and you want to try to communicate with these terrorists? Every move the Israelis have done to try to appease the rifraf has done nothing but upset the Israeli settlers that had to give up their homes and businesses in Gaza so Hammas can have a closer base in which to toss rockets.

Better quit the hunger strike dude. you brain is being malnourished.

multirec,

I did not coveniently or intentionally forget the kidnapping of 2 or more IDF soldiers. That kidnapping was the spark that ignited the conflict. The fuel that stokes the war has been stockpiling on both sides of the border for quite a while now.

It should have never gotten to the point where so much fuel was stored in 1 place (the border region).

texas,

Since your brain is so well nourished please share with all of us what your solution is.

Your exact words, David Brown: "However, if you communicate well (no matter how tough the client) and create trust it's amazing the results that can be obtained."

WHA...???

Hezbollah, for a start, are not "clients." Whose "clients" are they? Second, maybe YOU could suggest how the Israelis are supposed to "communicate well" with the terrorists who have kidnapped their soldiers, killed some of them, and have lobbed missiles into Israel without warning any Israelis of the impending carnage, unlike the Israelis who warn the Lebanese of targeted areas BEFORE they attack so that civilians can leave before the missiles hit.

And it's possible to "create trust" behaving the way Hezbollah does? How should this trust be created between the Isralis and Hezbollah? I'd love to hear your prescription here.

In an ideal world, what you say might have some credence. But for you to make the statement you have just made just takes my breath away.

My last question: Why does it have to be Israel that makes all of the concessions? To quote Eskimo, "what say ISLAM reinvents itself so as to become more palatable to the rest of the world?" What say you to that idea?

As a competent professional negotiator, I can tell you that one of the biggest lessons in negotiating school is to know when to walk away from the table. A real negotiator recognizes when there's no point in further negotiation, you walk away and hope that, some day, other forces bring the other party back to the table in a different frame of mind. Of course, I'm talking about the real world where there's positive goals and and the parties are civilized, not B.S. endless meaningless fake negotiations with lying criminals who cannot be trusted.

new kid,

Clients are my frame of reference. I've dealt with ones that are every bit as wacked out as militant muslims, some just ranting and raving lunatics.

Usually it takes no more than sitting in a room until they run out of gas and realize this person across from them (me) is actually taking an interest in their concerns.

The one thing I've learned from leading a work force and through tough negotiations is that everybody wants to feel like someone who cares is listening.

If I were to rant and rave back everybody would just storm out of the room all pissed off with some seeking vengance...just like the ME everyone loses.

Dave, give Israel a couple of more weeks to clear Hezbollah out of a buffer zone. Then and only then should Isreal let Hezbollah try to open communications.

By the way, has Hezbollah tried to talk to anyone? I didn't think so.

anon,

There's a lot of truth to knowing when and how to walk away from the negotiating table. It's an art in itself and can be quite effective when done properly.

There's also methods for exposing BS, lies and nurturing trust.

Admittedly, there's no negotiating with the insane.

However, Hezbollah is too well organized to be led by insane people.

Leading your staff at a Mcdonalds is far different from negotiating with lying, murderers such as hezbollah.
Get a grip on reality, David.
enough

Pol Pot, Mao, Stalin, Lenin, Hitler. None insane as far as I know. Mass murderers all.
enough

Interesting commentary on the internal situation in Lebanon: http://www.ouwet.com/

EARTH TO DAVID BROWN, EARTH TO DAVID BROWN: COME IN...

Thanks ET, New Kid and Eskimo for bringing us back to earth from "Planet David Brown".

I think about five minutes in a room carefully listening to Hezbollah might redefine "wacked out" for DB.

Please help me, I've fallen into a troll trap!!

David Brown:

You claim to have experience having "dealt with ones that are every bit as wacked out as militant muslims" (What is a "militant muslim" anyway?....Same as an Islamofascist?) Have you ever negotiated for your life? Because that is what you are suggesting Israel do. Have you not heard that Hezbollah has made it their mandate to wipe Israel off the map? And you think it makes sense to communicate with these heathens. My Lord...you are pathetically naive.

People: If you find yourselves typing the word "troll" while responding to another commentor, and truly believe it to be the case - cancel your post and move on.

texas,

I just hope your right but with Iran and Syria supplying money as well as might this clearing process may never happen. Could be another Iraq with insurgents flooding in quicker than they can be cleared out.

Time will tell.

John,

As a mattter of fact I have. When I was 15 years old and was working late at a local covenience store a masked gunman stormed in and held a 38 calibre snubnose revolver to my head demanding cash. I could see the tips of the bullets in the chamber.

I gave him all the money in the till while talking softly to him. He ran out quickly and disappeared into the night.

Later at the police station I identified him out of a mug shot file and was also able to identify the weapon out of a book the police showed me.

This is a true story that really was a life altering experience. Nothing frightens me anymore.

David, what is compromise when the starting point is the total annihilation of Israel? Pop. 6,276,883. Meet halfway so kill only 3 million give or take?
enough

Kate, I did exactly that. Best online advice ever!

enough,

That's a great starting point. There's probably a whole host of reasons why the Islamos want the annihilation of Israel.

Pick the severest and over the course of time work at softening it.

If David was able to slay Goliath then surely a modest amount of headway could be made in this vein.

David Brown: "I gave him all the money in the till while talking softly to him."

So the application to the Lebanese situation is:

Give Hezbollah everything they are asking for (the destruction of Israel) and then go to the police.

What's your Plan B?

Last post for today and off topic but still relevant.

For all you non-hippie types.

The term 'if you remember the 60s you probably weren't there' was not coined by Robin Williams but rather by Timothy Leary.

Robin was barely a pre-pubescent Mork in the 60s.

BTW, I was there and do remember everything from Yorkville to the Vietnam war and made the required pilgrimage to Haight-Ashbury SF.

It was not Davids money so he had no real investment there. Easy to give away other peoples money.

And wow! Killing 3 million is a starting point. That is a phsychopathic comment. Shows a complete unconcern about the slaughter of people.

With a rational person the starting point is 0. It is fine to kill 0 Israelis. It is like the old joke of offering $1 million to a woman for sex, then offering $100 to the same woman. We already established that she is a prostitute, we are just negotiating the amount.

This is the mentality that has prolonged this conflict. Simply unacceptable.
enough

It was not Davids money so he had no real investment there. Easy to give away other peoples money.

And wow! Killing 3 million is a starting point. That is a phsychopathic comment. Shows a complete unconcern about the slaughter of people.

With a rational person the starting point is 0. It is fine to kill 0 Israelis. It is like the old joke of offering $1 million to a woman , then offering $100 to the same woman. We already established that she is a prostitute, we are just negotiating the amount.

This is the mentality that has prolonged this conflict. Simply unacceptable.
enough

enough,

Once you cool down go back and re-read your post then tell me who the rational person is.

Giving money to a robber is exactly what all money hadlers are trained to do. Who wants to be a dead hero for the sake of $160.

Killing 3 million people is your 'psycopathic' comment. I never ever suggested that as an option.

Pig-headed stubborness has prolonged the conflict...fresh thinking will shorten it.

Breaking: CNN reports IDF lands in Balbeck [N Lebanon]
CNN TV . ...-

Present-day Baalbek, connected by road with Beirut and with Damascus and Halab (Aleppo) in Syria, is the chief town in eastern Lebanon.

IDF lands? 'Chute drop?

On to Damascus, Syria.

More and faster.

Hezbollah central casting. 1996-2006
Who is green helmet?

Tragically he gets older but not the little children that he depravedly uses as props.

3W. eureferendum.blogspot.com/2006/07/who-is-this-man.html

So, Plan B from Planet Brown would be to remember his hippie days and kiss Israel and his own sweet ass goodbye.

Nice plan for '60's Yorkville (ahhh . . . pass the joint again). Not so great for Planet Earth.

Timothy Leary really is dead.

There should be a cease fire. Isreal is paranoid about the Arabs and visa versa. They bombed a United Nations post and our Fuhr says the UN shouldn't have been there. The guys too much like Bush, a trigger happy fool from Albrta. He has to go that's for sure. He follows American policy word for word. How original. Who voted for this pro American fool. We were peace keepers and admired around the world. Now we are American puppets. What progress we have made. No wonder he muzzles his caucus. These guys are a ship of fools. Isreal thinks they are the only ones suffering in this war. They outgun the Arabs 10 to 1. It's not a fair war. Someone should stand up to the Jewish/American front. They ignore the UN and think they have a devine right to tell the rest of the world what to do.

Is it me, or does David Brown not sound a lot like our old friend steved...let's negotiate, let's talk, let's hug-a-thug, let's-magically-go-back-in-time-and-do-things-differently-so-we-don't-end-up-where-we-are-currently.

I suppose if a huge meteor is hurtling towards Earth, your solution would be to negotiate with it. Essentially, that is what you're suggesting here. So far, Hezbollah has shown that they are as responsive to negotiation as a rock.

As the sayings go (imperfectly quoted):

- Walk softly and carry a big stick
- In times of peace, prepare for war
- Diplomacy is the art of saying "nice doggie" while reaching for a big rock

ok4ua: There is just so much wrong with what you said that there's no point in refuting any of it...maybe others have the patience to do so, but not I. Every single sentence you typed is dead wrong (imo), with the only exception possibly being the first sentence (but then, only after certain conditions are met).

ok4ua: Please, shelve the "We were peace keepers and admired around the world". It's BS. I've been around the world and most people know as much about Canada as they do about Liechtenstein; they might nod & smile but that's just politeness.

Try reading Sunil Ram's column about Canada's much vaunted, (for domestic consumption only, provided by the CBC and the Liberal Party) supposed role in 'peacekeeping':

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/archive/index.php/t-19936.html

Oh...and BTW...there are 1 BILLION Muslims, about 200 million of whom are Arabs and 70 million are Iranians.......opposed to 6 million Israelis.

Your 'fair war' comment REALLY made me laugh, and I hope, for your sake, that you are ten years old, because, if you're any older.......HAHAHAHA

Insider Info

I have just hung up the phone with a good friend of mine who has relayed the following info to me. The Syrian Army has passed the word down from Assad that today sometime between now current time in Israel is 11:40pm (23:30) and the morning Israel will attack Syria. ...-
yoni

100% support for Israel. Nothing for that death cult. Who's your Allah? Beatch.

Another "F" Word: Fake.

The Rather Syndrome: Fake but accurate.

The MSM Word: Fakery. ...-

Wire Services Defend Staged Photos

The news wire services are circling the wagons around their propaganda photos from Qana: News agencies stand by Lebanon photos.

NEW YORK - Three news agencies on Tuesday rejected challenges to the veracity of photographs of bodies taken in the aftermath of an Israeli airstrike in Lebanon, strongly denying that the images were staged. ...-
LGF

Google images: keyword: qana.

The solution to Hezbollah is kill everyone of the stinking terrorists and anyone who backs them up.
Is that simple enough for you Mr Brownshirt?

FREE,

I think what brownshirt is saying is that he agrees that Hezbollah are terrorists and should pay the consequences. His first posts were more along the lines that Israel and the Jewish people need an image makeover and better PR. With that in mind it's possible organizations like Hezbollah probably wouldn't even exist in the first place.

"This is a war. Get it? Bombs going off, explosions. People will die accidentally and on purpose. Not all munitions are smart weapons. The majority are not"

Its easy to talk with such detachment when you dont have family living there. There are many in Canada who do. I wonder if you, or, in fact, anyone else here, would be singing Israels praises and being all gung ho about it, or talking carelessly about collateral damage, if your family was stuck in the thick of it. War or not, if it was your family in there, the majority of you would have believed that the innocent should take precedent.

You all sit here and defend and defend and ignore the fact that civilians are dying, but the simple fact is that if it was your mother, father, sister, or brother, at the recieving end of Israeli munitions, you d be dancing to a different tune. Thank your lucky stars that no one you know is in there, but everytime a civilian dies, think about his/her family. Its almost as if you ve forgotten that theres human beings out there who are suffering. I wonder what your thoughts would be if your family was stuck in there.

Now for those not sure of just what trolling is, please try to read ok4ua.

To the "lets talk it over" crowd, I watched an hour or so of CPAC and the Foreign Affairs gaggle, err committee try to put together a statement to say that they don't condone the violence, ceasefire, etc. Talk about your waste of oxygen...

With the exception of maybe Cyprus, can anyone name a ceasefire that actually lasted, let alone work?

If its a civi in lebascam its one more terrorist we dont have to deal with later.

Middleton: Are you suggesting that the attacks should not proceed lest a civilian be killed? If that were the case, Hitler would never have been defeated and the Japanese would have held on for a much longer time. Was the price of a few hundred thousand (however many) "innocent" civilians in Dresden worth paying to rid the world of Hitler?

When you send troops into battle, you do so knowing that many will die. Out of fear of causing grief to the families and friends of the troops, do you refrain from fighting?

Your intent may be noble...we should never take the issue of war or civilian casualties in any way lightly and should enter a war only if there is no other practical way of achieving your goals or defending yourself. Once in a war, you should attempt to limit civilian casualties but you cannot avoid them entirely...attempting to do so will expose your "Achilles heel" to the enemy and you will lose.

So, I suspect that most of the "offending" SDA contributers have recognized this, ACCEPTED THIS AS A GIVEN and stepped over this without stating so.

Nice thought and something to reflect on before we type, but civilian casualties cannot be avoided in a war (particularly THIS war) and the IDF cannot permit themselves to pull any punches.

"I read that Lebanese taxis charge $1000 to go to Beirut." Not very Christian of those taxi drivers to charge folks $1000 to escape the danger area.
Capitalism at its finest however.

Wes

Perfect metaphor, Minister MacKay.

Prognosis: Terminal. ...-

MacKay calls Hezbollah "cancer

National Post - 8 hours ago
OTTAWA - Foreign Affairs Minister Peter MacKay defended on Tuesday the government’s handling of the Middle East crisis at a House of Commons foreign affairs committee meeting and said he favours a ceasefire but only one that would be lasting and agreed ...

Middleton
So glad no civilians died in any suicide bombing in Israel?! Oh but they're Israelis so they don't count? Of course nobody wants to see innocent people suffer but it would appear that you are only seeing innocents suffering on one side of the line and not the other. How many times did Hezbollah rejoice when they targeted civilians! Israel is doing it's best to avoid civilian targets, can the same be said for Hezbollah?

Willy Graham: Hold it. You and Iggy have some 'splaining to do to the Canadian people; all you of the creed/faith of the Socialist/Liberal Party of Canada.

Your nuance is exposed.

Your nuance is: "extraordinary equivocation about the nature of Hezbollah".

Your nuance in Lib/Socialist speak is:

"I don't take sides for or against Hezbollah; I don't take sides for or against Israel."

You, Graham and Ignatieff, have taken lessons from the American democratic moonbat, Dingell. You are copying from an American; your hypocrisy is stunning; you of the party of Aunty-American.

Your party, the Liberal Party, has also suffered a
national security collapse.

To all Canadians: Stand with Prime Minister Harper.

Stand with Israel.

Down with hezbollah. ...-

The National Security Collapse of the Democratic Party

Hugh Hewitt ^ | 08-01-2006 | Hugh Hewitt
I have already posted on Democratic Congressman John Dingell's extraordinary equivocation about the nature of Hezbollah: "I don't take sides for or against Hezbollah; I don't take sides for or against Israel." ...-
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1676097/posts

Hassle,

I am not interested in making myself out to be noble. The history behind Dresden is interesting enough. It was no coincedence that firebombs were used. They were used deliberately to catch the Soviets attention. History is and always has been written by the victors. But does that justify Dresden, or in fact, Hiroshima (where it is argued that Japanese civilains lives saved American soldiers lives)?

Soldiers know they might die. They join the army regardless, accepting it as an occupational hazard. Civilians dont want to die -thats why they dont join the army.

"Once in a war, you should attempt to limit civilian casualties but you cannot avoid them entirely...attempting to do so will expose your "Achilles heel" to the enemy and you will lose."

And then we must ask if this is a war at all. This is a case of Israel getting irritated by a group in a country that has just rebuilt itself and hardly has an army to speak of. Is the Hizbollah representative of the Lebanese people. You folk are taking this as a given, despite knowing fully well that it is not true.

It reminds me of the COnfederates in Canada during the Civil War. A couple of them go over to St Albans and engage in some stupidity and give the Union the same pretense being used by Israel here. Canada did arrest them, but thats because Canada had the means to arrest the troublemakers. Lebanon does not. Its army, if there is one, is in no position to fight it out with Hizbollah.

What if the Americans had done what we Israel is doing now - attacking an entire population, because a group of terrorists, who are not representative of the people, are doing as they wish on the southern border. Would we be as forgiving of America then, as we are of Israel now.

This is a very strange "war". It doesnt appear to be achiveing much regardless of the IDFs protestations to the contrary (Its funny how every side is winning, till one side is close to total annihilation). Civilians are dying and Hizbollah is continuing to wreak havoc.. Dont get me wrong - I want to see Hizbollah go just as much as the next Jerry Falwell or Pat Robertson, but this strategy isnt working out.

There are many who think criticizing Israeli strategy is anti-Israeli. I dont think so. From what I m seeing, the Israelis arent really getting anywhere. Sure they ll set up their buffer zone, but those rockets will keep getting their range upgraded. This little "war" isnt helping them in the least.

Civilians are dying while you toast the Israelis and turn a blind eye to the manner in which they ve conducted this. A Canadian, by the way, is one of the many dead. Yet none of you will dare criticize Israeli tactics. Everything is collateral, because thats war. People die in wars. In this case, rather unneccassarily.

FREE,

"If its a civi in lebascam its one more terrorist we dont have to deal with later."

Too bad you werent born Lebanese. Or your mother or father or brother or sister or son or daughter. I dont think you d be making such irresponsible statements if that were the case.

"So glad no civilians died in any suicide bombing in Israel?! Oh but they're Israelis so they don't count?"

Keep putting words in my mouth. That way you ll hear exactly what you want to. Just twist my words around.. You know I didnt say that. And you know damn well that I didnt implicitly mean that.

I strongly believe that the Israelis are going about this the wrong way. I dont think the Israelis are wrong in trying to dismantle the Hizbollah. But they re going about it all wrong, IMHO.

Of course nobody wants to see innocent people suffer but it would appear that you are only seeing innocents suffering on one side of the line and not the other. How many times did Hezbollah rejoice when they targeted civilians! Israel is doing it's best to avoid civilian targets, can the same be said for Hezbollah?"

Its strategy is all wrong. Three weeks into the war, its achieved precious little. Israel can castrate each Hizbollah freak with red hot iron for all I care, but this approach is taking far tooo many civilian lives vis-a-vis militant lives. Hizbollah continues and civilains die. And you call me Anti-Israeli for daring to suggest that Israel could have done a better job.

middleton, your sentiment just doesn't cut it, you may feel, or "strongly believe that the Israelis are going about this the wrong way" and "they re going about it all wrong, IMHO", and "Its strategy is all wrong" and "its achieved precious little" and "it could have done a better job". You're obviously not so humble ("IMHO") after all, you must think you're some kind of expert on military matters and anti-terrorist activity. The Israelis have had that expertise forced upon them by decades of self-defense. They made a serious decision to clean up southern Lebanon, they had to, have you noticed how many rockets are being fired into Israel from there? Israel doesn't want to be doing this, they're losing fine young citizen soldiers in the process.

They have to do it, no-one else has done anything or will do anything, and all that is happening flows from this fundamental concept.

Lots of people are going to die including civilians ( I suppose there might be a few places left on the planet where war can be fought without the presence of lots of civilians - the interior of the Sahara, Antarctica... ), that is the nature of modern war in this modern world. Your sentimental blubbering about wrong, wrong, wrong doesn't cut it, if you don't have viable practical options to justify your objective opinion you're babbling drivel. How else to, or who else can, end this totally unacceptable violent activity against Israelis? Any suggestions? I didn't think so.

I never claimed to be a military expert. Their results speak for themselves. 700 odd civilians dead. At most a 100 Hizbollah dead. No matter how you interpret that, it suggests a very bad strategy. Yes I did notice how many rockets are being fired into Israel. The deathtoll is 54 Israelis- 18 civilians - those rockets arent doing much.

3 weeks into it and theres nothing to show for it. The ground offensive has only just started - GOd lone knows why Israel didnt begin with a ground offence in the first place. I think soldiers on the ground will be a lot more careful about civilian casualties than pilots sitting a mile up who dont have to stare dead children in the face. I hope the ground offensive is more succesfull because by the looks of it, the Hizbollah is as strong as its ever been.

Yes I do have suggestions. One of them was to go with the ground option a long time ago. The other was to be careful about targetting. They could have done a better job with their targetting and intelligence.

Hezbulah is not out to get Canada. We should remain neutral on this issue. I hope this decision by the tories brings down the government. They don't deserve to rule us. Notice rule and not lead. They are not leaders. This is just the beginning of the Tory/USA alliance that will ruin Canada. These Alliance/Tories who are in Ottawa are running on empty. We were warned but didn't listen. Harper quotes Bush's office word for word. 77 percent of Canadians feel the Gov't is too much up America's behind.

Middleton: I think I rebutted you in an ineffective manner. Perhaps I should have turned your comment around and pointed it back to you, thusly:

"Its easy to talk with such detachment when you dont have family living there. There are many in Canada who do. I wonder if you, or, in fact, anyone else here, would be CONDEMNING ISRAEL and being all gung ho about it, or talking carelessly about collateral damage TO ISRAELI CITIZENS INFLICTED FOR YEARS BY HEZBOLLAH, if your family was stuck in the thick of it. War or not, if it was your family in there, the majority of you would have believed that the innocent should take precedent.

You sit here and defend and defend and ignore the fact that ISRAELI civilians are dying, but the simple fact is that if it was your mother, father, sister, or brother, at the recieving end of HEZBOLLAH munitions, you'd be dancing to a different tune. Thank your lucky stars that no one you know is in there, but everytime an ISRAELI civilian dies, think about his/her family. Its almost as if you ve forgotten that theres human beings out there who are suffering. I wonder what your thoughts would be if your family was stuck in there."

See how nicely your words can be turned around? Do you understand now, Middleton?

Israel has been under attack from ALL sides of their country by muslims who want EVERY ONE OF THEM DEAD. What would YOU do if YOU and your family were there in Israel? Negotiate? Think of all the poor civilians who might get hurt if you fight back?

I doubt it...I suspect you'd run away and play the victim.

"those rockets arent doing much"

Maybe because of massive Israeli evacuations and lots of Israelis living most of the time in bomb shelters? In any case, if you were capable of a rational balanced perspective, you'd understand that those rockets are doing enough that they must be immediately stopped by any means.

"GOd lone knows why Israel didnt begin with a ground offence in the first place."

How about to try and keep their death toll down? You obviously have no military knowledge, air power rules, by far, for about the last seventy-five years. Ideally, any military operation would be 100% from the air. Unfortunately, ground forces have to go in and mop up. Any commander who sends in ground forces without first using available air power to soften up the enemy is a murderer. Ground forces advancing against a dug-in enemy suffer grossly disproportionate casualties, every bunker, every piece of high ground, becomes a bloody little battlefield, a handful of fanatics in a well-defended position can extract a terrible cost from attackers. Air power is fundamental and vital. No sane or knowledgeable person would suggest not using air power to prepare the way for ground troops. A good country, particularly democracies, places a very high value on the lives of its citizen soldiers.

"They could have done a better job with their targetting and intelligence."

What the HELL do you know about "targetting [sic]and intelligence"? I would suggest the Israelis are among the best in the world at these things. You don't know what you're talking about and you're a "useful idiot" for Hizballah propaganda.

No further discussion with you, you don't know what you're talking about, you haven't a clue.

LGF has some interesting stuff from an Egyptian blogger who has some interesting questions about the Islamic point of view:

"If we were the ones who had the superior military machine, would we have shown them any mercy, or any regard to their civillian casualties? Would we have hesitated to wipe them all out? Armed forces, civillians, whatever? Would any of us have felt bad about it at all? Or would we be filled with the feelings of Pride, honor and dignity that we keep talking about day and night?"

He asked nine of his muslim co-workers this: "if a Hezbollah rocket had attacked a building in Israel, killing 55 civillians, of which 30 were children" what would he think. Nine out of nine thought it would be justified and seven out of nine felt it would be cause for celebration.

So don't hold Israelis to a ridiculously unreasonable higher standard. Their standards, morals, and ethics are much higher already. They're doing what they absolutely have to do, as best they can, whatever stupid armchair generals, who support anti-American anti-semetic agendas, type on the internet.

Hassle,

I m not pro Hizbollah. I want to see them go as much as the next, I dont know, the next rabid Canadian right winger. But that doesnt exempt the Israeli actions from criticism. Your turning the tables on me in such a manner would only be warranted if I criticized one and not the other. Thats not the case. I never doubted Israels right to fight back. They could have gone about it a hell of a lot better.

Anon,

Air power is used to soften up fortifications and positions. 3 weeks to identify and destroy Hizbollah fortifications is a bit long and doesnt say much for intelligence. The fact that many civilians have died, and not that many Hizbollah suggests the Israelis air campaign really hasnt done much more than create rubble. And dead civilians.

And this all goes back to the same question - to what point can you keep sacrificing civilians on the other side to save your own soldiers. And keep in mind the fact that the Hizb is not representative of most of these civis. Soldiers sign up knowing death is an occupational hazard. Civilains dont sign up for about the same reason. This isnt war as you know it. This isnt about nations fighting. This is about Israel getting irritated with a group and engaging in collective punishment.

And here we go again. Criticizing IDF strategies is not equal to anti-Semitism. I never once said they shouldnt go after the Hizbollah. I do dare to criticize the IDF's conduct in this one, and I do think the Israeli PM rushed into this.

I do find it amusing that Conservatives, especially Christian ones, level charges of anti-semitism against me. Its convenient to forget that this whole pro-Israel thing only started 60 years ago. Persecution of Jews by Christians began in earnest by 380 AD and the first Crusaders to claim Jerusalem thought it appropriate to burn the synagogue, with Jews in it. History is replete with Christian persecution of Jews. Somehow I cant take you seriously when you call me anti-semitic, if only because I know as well as you do that this benevolence towards them is based on the presence of a common enemy - Islam. If Islam hadnt existed, you d be out there doing the dirty deeds.

" No further discussion with you, you don't know what you're talking about, you haven't a clue."

Next time put that statement at the end, not the middle, of your comment. It might actually have an impact.

my God it is amazing the selectivity employed by supporters and defenders of hezbollah.

YEARS and YEARS of hostility and attack aimed at Israel by that bunch and all of a sudden the IDF decides the situation has reached the time for some tit-for-tat reaction and whoAAA bad bad bad jews.

jeezuz murphy.

arafart, iranians, terrorist groups aplenty all with the frequent expressed desire to commit a repeat of the holocaust. images of palestinian children decked out in terrorist duds chirping anti-jewish slogans, on and on and on.

very selective view of the world there all you lefties.

whine whine whine about civilian deaths caused by Israeli bombing; aimed at hezbollah that are clearly known to wear CIVILIAN clothes and ride around in pickup trucks well withing heavily populated areas to launch their missiles and then duck into CIVILIAN occupied buildings.

why dont the lebanese civilian vitims get some weapons and start killing these hezbollah that are bring this bombardment upon them?

The UN has previously ruled that Hez must be dismantled. Yet, despite the fact that years have past since, nothing has been done. Same thing happened with Iraq. What is the point of the UN? And what is Israel to do?

Israeli actions are forcing the UN to deliver on it's promise. The blood is on the UN's hands, once again.

Middleton, ok, David Brown, etc. like all the other brainless twats believes that Israel is wrong, yet offer no alternative than to 'talk.'

1500 years of Islam have proven that talk and appeasement don't work. Their objective is conquest, conversion, enslavement, or exterination - period. They will use whatever bloodthirsty tactics necessary to achieve their objectives including the slaughter of their own people for 'good' PR.

As Golda Meir put it, "We can forgive you for killing our sons, but we can never forgive you for making us kill yours."

In this war, Israel is alone at the battlefront against militant Islam. They fight for their own survival to be sure. But by proxy whether willingly or not, fight for all non-Muslims.

Anybody who comments here, without doing a little homework into the reality of Islam deserves nothing but scorn. It is you people, whether willingly or not that are accomplices to every attrocity commited by Islam in their quest towards world Islamic fascism.

Wake up.

in case anybody missed it, from the above cited link:

Professor of Law at Harvard, Alan Dershowitz writes:
“The Hizbullah and Hamas provocations against Israel once again demonstrate how terrorists exploit human rights and the media in their attacks on democracies.

By hiding behind their own civilians the Islamic radicals issue a challenge to democracies: Either violate your own morality by coming after us and inevitably killing some innocent civilians, or maintain your morality and leave us with a free hand to target your innocent civilians.

This challenge presents democracies such as Israel with a lose-lose option, and the terrorists with a win-win option.

There is one variable that could change this dynamic and present democracies with a viable option that could make terrorism less attractive as a tactic: The international community, the anti-Israel segment of the media and the so called “human rights” organizations could stop falling for this terrorist gambit and acknowledge that they are being used to promote the terrorist agenda.”

***********************

I think I will start calling them hizbullshit from now on.