CTV's ...First live interview with a passenger arriving in Turkey from Lebanon, a family who has been living full time in Beirut for the past 2 or 3 years...

....a further hint on what the debate to come is going to be about regarding dual citizenship.

Dan Matheson, to give him his due, has a more balanced approach to his reporting here. He did question this point of residence.

I am impressed that Harper rerouted his flight home to Cyprus. There are different aspects of that decision which are impressive, but look at the political aspect alone.

He has gone to the situation of crisis. As the most senior government official on the spot, he won't be able to avoid direct responsibility -- politically -- by claiming he did not know enough or communications were poor. He is there. He can make decisions on that spot.

The followup will be extensive for moving, what? 25-50,000 Canadians duirng the next few weeks. And more, Canada is often a save haven for other nationalities. I am not sure that Canadians have experienced such an evacuation even on Canadian soil. So what is there to compare with?

Any nominations for a past Prime Minister who would serve as the standard by which to evaluate Harper on a crisis like this?

Yes, the war is not only about Israel and Hezbollah--it's about fascism and freedom.

And on the side of Fascism right now you can inlcude: the CBC, all the other MSM, Liberals, the NDP, identity politics, PC and Kyoto do-gooders, so-called "peace" activists (have an ice cream shake for peace!) Euroweenies, China, Russia, Iran, Islamofascists worldwide, the list goes on and on....

If you claim to value freedom, you'd better pull your head out of your a$$ real fast before Hezbollah missles land on YOUR doorstep.

The link has already turned 'bad'

Why aren't the newsmedia asking how much per dual citizenship this is costing taxpayers.

These Duallies that live for 2 or 3 years in Lebanon, does anyone know how much they pay in taxes to Canada? Do they come back once in a while for the free health care? I don't know, just asking.

The Prime Minister was shown with Laureen, greeting folks boarding the aircraft.

It was very heart-warming!

Obviously if it was on tv, the media and not his photographer, got there to film it, whatever else the media may want to gripe about.

This is one huge opportunity for the media to step up and **help** this situation...NOT by showing every negative, but acting a conduit for people here and there.

They have their cameras on site...use them to the advantage of families waiting to hear anything of hope.

So far, signs of gratitude have been lacking, and that will stick.

If one must, slag our government later, have at it folks....we are soooo done with you pretending to be objective for the most part.

It occurs to me that if they are Duallies then the Lebanese Government should pay for half...HAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAH!!!

A similar fatigue with MSM spin is prevalent in the comments at the website of the "Mop and Pail" -- Toronto's national newspaper. There seems to be a groundswell for revisiting the whole dual citizenship issue.

I think that today's National Post, and the behaviour of the paper over the last weeks, has been some of the best main stream media work I have ever seen. Today's front-page article by Terence Corcoran - tinyurl.com/rzh52 - the main editorial - tinyurl.com/o8gd8 - and the letters to the editor page - tinyurl.com/kbxkz - were all of very high quality. Andrew Coyne's last half-dozen columns - www.andrewcoyne.com - have also all been very good, and there's always the great Robert Fullford.

Meanwhile, at the Globe and Mail, the paper reeks of emotionalist fear-mongering and geo-political appeasment, except, interestingly, the main editorials have not been tarring and feathering the prime minister. Of course, the G & M only has one columnist worth reading, the inimitable Rex Murphy, as against the misguided Jeffrey Simpson, the dangerous Rick Salutin, and the rest of the gaggle of honking Canadian geese. Wait, Wente's pretty good sometimes too.

And the Edmonton Journal is, as usual, siding with the enemy.

Overall, I think the war against the Islamic variety of elitist tryanny hiding under the robes of a theological front is going quite well, don't you? I may be a hopeless optimist, but I still think we can finish this century with less than a billion dead from war. To me, the long-term question is, once we get down to 2 billion humans, all living in luxury, in 2200, how will we maintain a procreation rate of 1.001 children per adult?

Since the dawn of man, humans have primarily tried to do two things, (1) make their lot better, and (2) fix the problems caused by their last attempt to make their lot better. That's what we're doing now. Remember, whenever you solve your biggest problem, your second biggest problem becomes your biggest problem. I don't expect that to change. I've heard that disheartens some people, but it energizes me. Maybe I'm broken.

Oh my - the dad-durned Harper government strikes again! Any responsible carrier woulda cancelled the flight / passage and refunded the full purchase price of the tics!

Wonder what happens when they do get to the homeland?

From the National Post

http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/story.html?id=c1e72781-9c04-4af3-9f11-8e1ad155faf3&k=77305

First Canadian evacuees from Lebanon arrive in Cyprus and Turkey

Not all disembarking evacuees were critical of the Canadian effort.

Since there were no baggage handlers, Sam Eid of Toronto and his brother unloaded luggage for other passengers.

“The Canadian government gave us an escort. It was my way of paying them back,” said Eid.

When asked about the Islamic militant group Hezbollah, which is embroiled in fighting with Israel, the evacuees distanced themselves from the movement and blamed it for the conflict.

One man said, “Nobody is standing by them.”

Another man, when asked whether people support Hezbollah in Lebanon, said: “Only the people with no brains.”

Sam Eid’s sister, Rima, who lives in Montreal, said, “Lebanon is not at war. Hezbollah is at war. On the news (in Lebanon) that’s how they described it.”

“We have no remorse for them (Hezbollah). They caused this, they brought this on themselves.”

Kind of says it all.

Oh my - the dad-durned Harper government strikes again! Any responsible carrier woulda cancelled the flight / passage and refunded the full purchase price of the tics!

Wonder what happens when they do get to the homeland?

"Rathergate?" Did the CBC fall for some fake documents?

I think this is the URL:

http://tinyurl.com/zrexa

More of the same from CBC...some POS whines about how tough they have it and CBC demands the "Government" fix the problem immediately.

Oh yeah..if the "Government" isn't the stinking liberals nothing is good enough.

It's too bad that soame actual Canadian citizens may get held back because of these so called refugees ...most are opportunist parasites who are only using our nation for convenience. Although you'll be hearing plenty of complaining if they don't get all the hand outs they want.

If I had the choice I'd be putting every last "Dual-Citizentship" applicant at the very back of the line. And charging them for the trip.

No one in the MSM seems to have asked why we have sooo many citizens in Lebanon to evacuate in the first place. Take a good hard look at the immigration policies of the former liberal gov'ts; policies that were designed to keep the natural ruling party in power forever and you'll have your answer. Equaly sickening is the fact that not 1 month ago the MSM hacks were critisizing the proposed increase in military spending. Now we need military support craft so its time to argue the other side of the point.

Its too bad the CBC and CTV couldn't find a single evacuee that was actually thankful to be rescued.

didnt the liberals buy two planes to ferry their likes about???

it was an untendered contract during the time when they were cutting back on the military.

how about Maurice Stong? doesnt he have a private jet?

the correct and historical response to the complaint of 'unprepared' is straightforward:

when have BOTH sides AND all those caught in the crossfire EVER been 'fully prepared' for the outbreak of serious level of combat?

was everyone back in the days of the roman empire ALWAYS ready in case of an invasion ??

why wasnt atlanta 'prepared' for Sherman's army when it trapsed thru and engaged in total warfare thus ending THAT conflict lickety split ??

howcum WW I dragged on in a perplexing and stymieing trench vs machine gun style ??? egad, purchance the allies WERENT PREPARED FOR IT ??????

etc etc

so do tell all you lebanese half-and-halfs, WHAT did YOU do to 'prepare' yourself for this very predictable scenario ?????

STOP BLAMING THE HARPER GOVERNMENT FOR THE SITUATION Y-O-U PUT YOURSELF IN.

same goes for all the MSM types.

I don't know if the many people in Lebanon have dual citizenship or not. What I do know is that the logistics of getting ships, planes and help to that small part of world is a huge, yes a HUGE, undertaking. The work involved is immense by any standards. It can be rightfully compared to help during the tsunami. How long did it take Canada to respond at that time? The media should be ashamed of themselves for false tales and pandering to extremest groups.

Yeah I mean really. I am happy that we are evacuating Canadian citizens, dualies or not. The question of how we grant citizenship is another topic for another time. Now is the time to get them out.

But what is with these complainers? It does nto kill you to sleep on a floor and go a day without food. We've all done it before and called it a college road trip. Likewise, it doesn't kill you to stand in line for a day. People do it every day and call it Disneyland.

I know people are stressed out, and grumpy. But it strikes me that this is due more to the war than to the rescue effort. They should ease up on their rescuers, and a simple "thank you" would probably be appreciated by those putting themselves in harms way for their sakes. The alternative is simple. If the accomadations are not up to their high standards, no one is forcing them on to the ships.

Shades of Eric Idle's rant about English tourists in Torremolinos "...complaining about the tea, 'Oh they don't make it properly here, do they'".

And shame on the CBC and CTV for giving a podium to the bitchers and moaners, while no doubt ignoring myriads who would have willingly offered thanks to the people of Canada for their rescue!!

I should also like to note that Kate's passing remark on talk radio, or as one of my friends derisively calls it, open-mouth radio, should not be discounted. It's one thing for the broadcast media to pontificate. It's something else entirely to hear the response from the citizenry. (That's one of the reasons that you can tell so much about a paper by the letters to the editor it selects for publication.)

When I'm in the pickup truck, flying the Red Ensign and the Libertarian Flag, on my way to and from my breakfast blintzes at the delicatessen owned by delightful Canadians long ago from Iran, I listen to the Dave Rutherford show, and it's quite clear that there are those who disagree with appeasement and entitlement perspectives.

And then, the obvious, the web logs and their comments. A strange media, in that it is broadcast, conversational, and persistent all at the same time. That's something completely new, at least, at this scale. Now we start to hear what the citizenry thinks, unlimited, unedited, without having to hang around speakers corner in the rain.

But the conversational nature of the sorts of discussions which you are currently reading has its drawbacks. For one thing, most of the comments are majestically poorly written, even when they aren't founded on pure sophistry or worse. Apparently the concept of a well constructed paragraph has been lost to the normative practitioners of the media.

Thus, independent of the future of the relationship between the citizens market for information and the various media available in regard to that, we will always have great pamphleteers such as, now a days, Steyn, Coyne, Murphy, and Fullford, who are not only on our side, but who we would all be well off to study in pursuit of better writing skills.

I don't think that it is fair to put a microphone and camera on someone who is distressed and who lacks information. All you can get is an emotional venting and, frankly, if I was in a que out of Lebanon right now, with children in tow, I would be very impatient. I might hold my tongue and be grateful for the way out of there, but it would still be a very trying situation.

The people with dual citizenship are not half-halfs. They are Canadian citizens who had migrated from a very unstable place. Syria was in charge not so long ago. I do not think it makes much sense to trash them, in discussions about how the CBC is anti-Harper, because some spokesman (like that BC professor) get up on their soapbox to complain unreasonably. We have so many citizens in Lebanon because Lebanon has suffered so much in the past; they came here and, when Syria got out, they went back to see their points of origin. I think that is what many Canadians -- traditionally -- have done during summer breaks.

The success of the evacuation will be measured not in complaints, hastily made today, but in the arrival of Canadian citizens, and perhaps also many refugees, on safe shores.

The term "outrage" is overused, but I am quite literally outraged at the coverage of the evacuation. These partisan forces should not be allowed to misrepresent themselves as journalists any longer.

It's fraud, it's borderline criminal. What we've been seeing isn't "reporting" on the news, it's been creating the news, fabricating a partisan "crisis" for the Harper government.

It's time for a widespread boycott of advertisers on CBC and CTV newsnet. CBC in particular has no right to use taxpayer funds to agitate, insinuate and cast aspersions against this government in such a blatantly partisan fashion. And it is so, so blatant, it's beyond words.

It's a serious national joke that weasel-boy Boag gets a coast-to-coast soapbox as the "Chief Political Correspondent" on a Public Broadcaster funded by general tax revenue. It's the Liberal establishment fighting back, so let the Liberal Party of Canada pay his salary, and for his airtime.

The blowback will not be televised but it's coming. May I suggest we start by noting and posting the names of Canadian companies who advertise on Newsnet and on CBC? I personally am going to boycott those companies, and I would invite others to do the same. I'll know more in a few hours, and will post here and elsewhere. There has to be a limit.

Terence Corcoran's article in today's National Post is excellent. He asks 'Since when has 'fast exit' been a right'? and.."from now on, apparently, we must maintain a 24/7 flotilla of cruise ships and aircraft ready to pick up hundreds of thousands of people anywhere in the world and return them home, wherever they think home is as selected from the handful of passports people seem to carry these days".

Exactly.

And CTV, CBC are continuing the Bash Harper onslaught. If you can believe it, CTV has their whoever actually stating that 'other countries' have cruise ships to carry their people while Canada's ships are so old and decrepit'. Ahh, the lack of a first class restaurant on board...

And, CTV also, had a debate between Garth Turner, CPC MP, who is questioning why there are so many Canadians living permanently in Lebanon, and some Head of the Arab League..who was 'astonished, astonished' that such questions should be raised by we racist, biased, ignorant white people.

I could only watch for about 30 seconds, but Mr. Head of the Arab League told us that these 'permanent residents in Lebanon' were actually retired Canadians. They had worked years and years and years in Canada...and had now retired to Lebanon. Sure, all 40,000 of them. The pictures on the TV screen sure don't show geriatrics getting on those ships.

Then, realizing that this seemed a rather feeble explanation, he then rapidly told us that 'these permanent residents' were actually involved in business with Canada; they were the basic, required, important infrastructure that enabled a strong economic exchange between Lebanon and Canada. Why if it weren't for them, there'd be no economic interaction between the two countries. So there.

Wait. Does this mean that if you want to do business with Canada, then, Canada will reward you with a Canadian citizenship??? Is this valid for all non-Canadians? Set up a business transaction..and we'll mail you a passport? Hmm. So, if I'm Chinese, the way to get a Canadian passport is simply to ship some goods-for-sale over to Canada, and in the return mail...

Do Canadians living in Canada get a Lebanese passport if they set up a business transaction with Lebanon? Is that how it's done?

We still don't have any answers to this rather serious question. Why and how did over 40,000 people, living permanently in Lebanon, who most certainly have never worked in Canada, or lived in Canada, and who have no intention of living, working, moving, immigrating to Canada - why and how did they get Canadian passports?

And why should the Canadian taxpayer pay for their cruise ship removal from their own country..which happens to be Lebanon. Not Canada.

i have no issue with evacuating the canadian lebanese people that live there permanently. well, maybe a few.

anyway, taxpayers are not only picking up that tab. a large percentage of them have no homes or jobs here, they will be on the dole as soon as they arrive.

I quote some evacuee comments:

What kind of plan is Harper and McKay talking about? I'm sure they would've had a better plan if we were talking about Israeli Canadians because according to them, Israel is the victim.
----------------
It was with absolute disgust that I heard on the news that Harper is to fly to Cyprus to meet Canadians fleeing from Lebanon. At this time we don't need a photo op.
---------------
Where is my country? Where is my government? Why is Israel going to war against Canada? Because effectively, that is what they are doing.

Instead of bitchin' that "their country" isn't doing enough, these muzzi sympathysers should be extremely thankful that Canada is making such a great effort to let them visit Canada for a short time again.

cal2 is BANG ON. The Liberals under Chretien / Martin destroyed the Canadian Military, equipment and all. Now the liberal-back-pocket media is harping at Harper. It is so pathetic.

Maurice Strong's UN, where are you? The Canadian MSM gives a pass on Tongsun Park's trial, a trial involving Oil For Food Scandal, Saddam, The UN, Maurice Strong, Boutrous Boutrous, and now give a pass on Liberal's Military consequences.

Asian Tsunami crisis ? How many days/weeks/months/years late was THAT Martin help ? When Paul finally did arrive what did he do ? He put in a plug for Maurice Strong's water-purifying co.

Liberal,s, including the media's, whole reason for being is to BITCH & COMPLAIN and try to GUILT TRIP the workers and do'ers and builders into solving problems that the loony Left helped create. They try to foster division between us all. Left against right. Socialists against Democracy. East against West. Religion against religion. Gays against straights. Lifestyle against lifestyle. Yes, create and perpetuate controversy so the Left-Saviours can swoop in with other's money and fix their problems. And oh yes, bring along and attach all their baggage, like somekind of computer virus. i.e. the Kyoto-Global-Warming-Hoax solution is to attach the weatlh transfer virus of CARBON CREDITS scam. And the circle closes. Maurice Strong > Paul Martin > Kyoto > no C-military > media pass > dual C-citizenship > problems on otherside of the world > media imposes guilt trip on Canadians > UN non responsive (time taken up with scandal > Maurice Strong > media pass > conclusion; it's all the Canadian tax-payer's fault. Impose higer taxes, give more money to the "fixer" scams, like Adscam. Sounds fair.

Am I the only one who "boils" when some ingrate who was rescued from Lebanon , complains they were "treated like animals". Hey .... you got out alive quit bitching! Most likely you will get a free ride home as us working taxpayers will undoubtedly pick up the tab for your stupid actions!

You went there of your own accord. Did you not know that the terrorist organization Hezbola controls the south of Lebanon and that Hamas has been lobbing rockets into Israel for months , and that Syrian agents recently assassinated some prominent Lenanese politians , and that a terrorist war is raging in Iraq!!!

... shut up and be thankful you got out alive.

Part of the the problem with large-scale public operations of this sort is that they tend to be burdened by the bureausclerosis of the very organizations that are undertaking them, though I must say that in this case they are in my opinion doing at least a fair job, so far. And part of the reason these bureaucracies are not generally good at this sort of thing is that action requires responsibility, and bureaucracies abhor responsibility.

That's part of the reason that it's always dangerous to confuse the goverment with the permanent civil service. Prime Minister Harper may be in favour of responsibility, but that doesn't mean he can just snap his fingers and change the nature of bureaucracy.

It reminds me of a piece by Sara Rimensnyder in Reason Magazine on 2002-09-05: "Suddenly, a miracle happened. A 6'2" man spoke firmly and calmly into a megaphone, and something in his tone or his elocution actually made people listen. "Alright people, quiet down and we'll all get through this. Everyone just needs to listen up," he commanded.

"The crowd cheered, thrilled that someone had taken charge. "If your flight is at or before 11:45, come to the front of the line," came his next booming instruction. Shockingly, people obeyed. They straggled forward, pushing their way through the blob, their faces bright from the oxygen rush as they moved into fresh air. When nobody else approached, he moved on to the next 5-minute interval.

"I don't work here," he told me. "I'm a marketing exec from Austin." "Someone needed to take charge," [...], "so he did."

And that's the problem with the appeasers and the entitlementists. They want everything, but they want responsibility for nothing. English has a word for that, it's called greed.

Vitrivius: This is a bit off topic, but where did you get a hold on the Canadian Ensign as I am interested in getting one and mounting it on my attenna of my Chevvy.
Thanks in advance.

There's another interesting aspect to consider about this scenario.

Those who are genuine visitors to Lebanon, will return to Canada and their homes. There's only about 5,000 of them.

The 35,000 to 40,000 who are permanent residents in Lebanon, who have not immigrated to Canada, who are not people who simply moved to Lebanon two years ago after living for 20 odd years in Canada, but who have NEVER lived here - well, are they really going to live in Canada? How? On welfare?

Or, is Canada going to maintain them, at taxpayer expense, in Turkey and Cyprus until the war is over, and then, at taxpayer expense, return them to their homes in, not Canada, but in Lebanon?

Leon Korby on CTV is saying that some of the refugees arriving in Toronto will need shelter because, gosh darn, some of them don't live near Toronto.

Well I don't know, Leon: if you get a small enough globe, Lebanon can seem close to Canada.

I agree with Buffalo Bean about Dan Matheson: he was the one guy who said "well you know the Americans/Australians/French/you name it" are getting the same complaints from the people they're trying to extract.

The amount of effort that is going into covering up the fact that many of these people are really Lebanese holding Canadian passports is truly astounding.

The Ontario government, by the way, is waving the usual 3 month wait for reinstatement of OHIP services. Take that, you suckers in Caledonia!

Where to the estimates come from? What source?

At first I had heard that there were a few thousand Canadian "visitors" in Lebanon at this time. And that there were upwards of another 10,000 Canadians who lived part-time in Lebanon.

That initial number seems to have ballooned. Who is reporting it and what is their source?

Canada ... the big all day sucker ... described here.

http://tinyurl.com/rttmq

Jan ~ Look up "Flag" in your yellow pages. I went to the "Flag Store" in Edmonton. I bought a large Red Ensign there, and a pocket Red-Ensign-on-a-stick, which I carry in my inside jacket pocket, with my portable pocket pepper mill. I also got a crossed Canada / US flags lapel pin that I now wear on said jacket.

I saw Billy Conally's act at the Jubilee Auditorium a few years ago. Great comedian. He talked about (pardon my language) wearing a bullshit detector. A device which allows you to quickly determine whether or not people are worth avoiding. He suggested, for men, wearing a large women's broach. For me, just to detect the enemy anti-Americans in Canada, the crossed flags work well.

Sorry we're off topic, Kate, I'll leave it at that.

Chairm:

I posted this a few days ago as sourced from the BBC:

===============================================

Foreign nationals in Lebanon, according to the Beeb:

Britain: 10,000
France: 20,000
Australia: 25,000
Canada: 40,000
Denmark: 2,300
Sweden: 5,000
Spain: 600
Italy: 1,000
Germany: 1,100
Philipines: 30,000
Ukraine: 1,600
Romania: 600
Bulgaria: 500
Finland: 160
New Zealand: 40

===========================================

I also neglected to mention that the Ontario government has a special $1 million fund for the Lebanese "Canadians."

No soup for you, residents of Caledonia!

Hey, Like I said earlier on - the media's just playing a game of madlibs with old Hurricane Katrina news reports. That's why the cbc was reporting that the first Lebanese-Canadians that got back said they were being kept in "unsanitary conditions." Right.

Katrina. Lebanon. KATRINA! BUSH BUSH BUSH BUSH HAPER IS BUSH! KATRINA LEBANON!

Jeez.

Dan Matheson IS providing some much needed balance..really enjoyed the aforementioned questions from the woman who has lived for past 2 YEARS in Lebanon..is now coming to Canada,on your dime!
I truly cannot believe the drivel coming from CBC ???reporters on the ground at the boats.esp.Adrian Arsehole.Anyone else note,how Dan covered,and praised the efforts of the greeters,the handing out of flowers,woman blowing kisses,and all the happy people,yet Arsehole,reverted to ph.coverage only,when just few minutes prior,had camera coverage..God forbid that cbc show anything good.If Peter Mansbridge gets anymore "pursed lipped",and anal,his whole head is going to shrivel and disappear.I swear,he looks as tho he's nduring a proctologist exam,and you can FEEL his hate,when he had to acknowledge OUR PM's trip to pick up the freeloaders.
I am a 50's something female,and have to admit,that I have never in all my yrs,have felt rage,like I feel toward the cbc.I have called my MP,to strongly complain,and good idea to boycott advertisers on cbc.LOVE to hear Don Cherry rant on this!!!! K.

Maybe somebody should go ask any vets who were at Dunkirk, what a real evacuation is.

The culture of the Nanny-State lives on. It is the government's responsibility to rescue us wherever we are; no matter what we do.

There is nothing that Stephen Harper could humanly do that would render accolades from MSM. He's probably written them off.

now we possibly know were all the missing passports are ?

There is a poll running on the Calgary CTV station's website re: the treatment of the Canadian refugees. 90%+ of the respondants are saying they have no right to complain.

Aha! Interesting data, You're This Guy. That lends credence to my argument that the behaviours of the fradulent veneer artists in the main stream media are not being effective in engaging the citizenry. Except, perhaps, for (1) those who agree with their campaign of fear-mongering for self-advancement reasons, and (2) those who have a penchant for studying disfunctional institutions.

The MSM are grasping at anything to discredit Harper. One of the complaints (Toronto Star) with the evacuation of 'Canadian citizens' was 'widespread vomiting from sea-sickness'.

Well, my dear, it's a boat. That's what happens.

Sure, you can blame the Canadian government for the ship being a ship and the sea being the sea and you being a 'permanent resident of Lebanon but somehow a Canadian citizen' and a host of other things..but, you are also a pawn of the Canadian Liberal MSM...

Here's a post by a bigot calling others bigotted. This guy's a complete twerp:

Interesting that our fellow Canadians in the Western parts of this country have such radically bigoted and right wing views on citizenship. Take your cowboy hats off and take an informed view of what is happening, i.e. the legal (and humanitarian) obligations of a country to it's citizens.

Painting all Canadians in Lebanon with the same brush is dangerous and just further reaffirms the East's view that our Western redneck brethren are really out of touch.

—Jason Hillier | Toronto

By the way, aren't Canadians, according to our esteemed Liberal/NDP politicians and MSM, supposed to be 'tolerant, peaceful nuanced peacekeepers'???

And aren't they, in fact, complaining, whining, and demanding, condescendingly denigrating the efforts to help and finally, completely ungrateful for such help?

Yes, Steve screwed up by working his photo ops and everyone having to run decisions thru his office but at least you can take him out in public and know that he won't talk with his mouth full, call to another leader "Yo" and then try to grope someone. He's not that creepy.

I wonder how the former Canadian government-in-residence would have handled this "crisis"? If the timing of the tsunami "relief" and the visit to High River AFTER last year's floods were over is any indication, the "Canadian victims" in Lebanon would still be there. Oh, BTW, doesn't Dithers own a steamship line? But you can be sure that Canada would get a sizable bill, paid through a Quebec ad agency, for that. Ingrates and opportunists are where ya find 'em!

I heard on the news that the ingrateful refugees were complaining about the rough ride on the open sea - infering that it was Harper's fault. It's his fault that that the sea was rough? GIVE ME A BREAK.

What's going to happen when China has problem with the people in Hong Kong.There's 100,000 "Canadian citizens" there since the takeover by China in 1999.

Canada is little more than a lifestyle state, "the greatest hotel on earth," as writer Yann Martel put it. Come stay a while and be entitled to an old age pension for as long as you live, wherever you live.

On the news tonight, they are saying that many of these so-called Canadian citizens that we are evacuating have not lived in this country for years. My question is WHY IN THE HELL ARE WE PAYING FOR THEIR EVACUATION THEN? If they haven't lived here for years, then get the hell out on your own hook. I am sorry to have to say this, but on the other hand, I am getting sick and tired of our country being used by hypocrites.

To those not clued in to the workings of governments, PMSH brought along the photographer to document this government action. If he was into the photo op thing he would have chosen a "select" member or two of the MSM who would trip all over themselves to get that exclusive.

It also seems that Jason Hillier from the centre of the known universe is quite the artist. He manages to paint all Westerners with that same redneck paintbrush he charges us cowboy hat wearing westerners seem to use. Perhaps he could pull his head out of his ass and come to grips with reality.

Can I just say, in passing, that ET's comment to the effect that "Well, my dear, it's a boat." is one of the most delightful phrasings I've recently read. Thank you.

Now, on to more serious matters. One of the things we are seeing here is a good healthy debate about the nature of citizenship. Personally, I do think that a certain degree of residency, perhaps, say, 6.01 months per year, averaged over the last three years, should be a requirement for first-class citizenship.

Perhaps variances could be allowed for Canadians with home assets working abroad on extended employment contracts. And the long-term absconders could be considered citizens in exile, subject always, of course, to the Prodigal Son clause ;-)

But I fail to see how we are supposed to build a great country if we let our very notion of national citizenry responsibility be corrupted by citizens of convenience. The degree to which my proviso applies to the current situation is, per my current understanding, open to debate: I don't think we've got very good statistical data yet.

Oh, and on the matter of the prime minister's official photographer, I agree with Texas Canuck, if you don't think he's close to the last person you want to ditch, I'd suggest you take that up with Archives Canada, or whatever they're called now a days. You have to be at least a general to trump the prime minister's official photographer, and I'm not so sure that's a bad thing.

Merci, Jean-Jacques. Send over thirteen boatloads of Eau de Vichy, 1940. It was a good year. ...-

France offers to work with Canada to evacuate citizens from Lebanon
PARIS (CP) - French President Jacques Chirac has offered to help evacuate Canadians from war-ravaged Lebanon, Quebec Premier Jean Charest said Thursday.
cnews

if, IF the half-andhalfs had deined to board a BOAT or PLANE periodically, they would be much more mindful of the need to keep a bottle of anti-nausia pills ready for the whole family.

the complaint about motion sickness is excellent PROOF this bunch was much inclined to STAY at one 'end' of their half-and-half passport.

so why all the godam whining ???

st vituvius: 'bureausclerosis' LOL !!!!

a local politishun was front and centre in the local rag about stress from learning his family was stuck in beirut having 'missed the boat' as they say. whining about government disinterest and inaction.

this was the same politishun who waited SIX GODAM MONTHS before deciding he was going to give me my 15 minutes of fame to get answers about police procedure that they wouldnt produce.

half a godam year I waited until he clued in I wasnt quietly going away. yet HE bitches and bitches in the newspaper about how the canadian government left his family at risk bla bla bla.

Hannah Boudreau (Global News) began yelping at Mr. Harper's heels when she implied, almost joyfully, that Mr. Harper had made a grave error when he came out in support of Israel. She must be an Ottawa Press Gallery winemaker, pressing sour grapes re. his disrespect for the press.

Early this evening on Global they had that bald idiot on the boat yelling, we were treated like animals ,no food , dirty toilets, people sick, about four times in the hour. Earlier they had a guy behind the counter of a store that looked like one of the millions of convienience stores in Toronto. He obviously had relatives trying to get out. He said" Canada, ptah, G8 Country Ptah, They no can get them out, Greece get theirs out, Turkey get theirs out, France get theirs out, but Canada Ptah". Maybe we should have used the four boats that Chretien bought, and the helicopters Mulroney bought just before the Liberals came into power thirteen years ago.

Seasickness
On a boat
In the Mediteranean
We're not making this up

One newsclip from CTV yesterday had a story about a family that had to drive to the Syrian border, and was turned back at two border crossings, and was finally allowed into Syria after bribing a border guard. The family, now safely in Canada, included a daughter about 16-20. The daughter was sad and worried about the fighting going on at home.

Home? If she is Canadian, wouldn't the fighting be in Toronto or Montreal or wherever they were from? Obviously, she didn't consider Canada to be 'home'.

On another note, if we were to re-introduce the draft, with all Canadian citizens under age 50 required to perform some type of government service (not necessarily military), how many of those dual citizens would suddenly lose their Canadian passport?

...Just a random thought.

I too would like V. to tell where he got the Red Ensign auto flag.

Better still, and while we're at it, does anyone know where to get a Red Ensign front licence plate?

Harpers solution to all this confusion seems SO simple I'm surprised he hasn't thought of this himself. Obviously, the boats he rented are not up to todays greedy, selfish standards. He should have somebody at the embassy go down to the dock with a megaphone and tell everyone "the boats are being replaced by luxury cruise ships. Everybody return to your residence until we call you approximately the 1st of August." By August, Lebanon will be erased from the globe drastically reducing the number of people needing to be rescued. Think of the $'s this Gov't would save

I am impressed that Harper rerouted his flight home to Cyprus.

Not a surprise. Like most Conservative supporters, you are easily impressed.

The Prime Minister was shown with Laureen, greeting folks boarding the aircraft.

It was very heart-warming!

Thanks for the exclamation point, btw.

Kim Jong-Il's boys will not doubt take a cue from your enthusiastic response to this piece of propaganda, and do their best to reproduce it for the admirers of their Dear Leader.

Meanwhile, at the Globe and Mail, the paper reeks of emotionalist fear-mongering and geo-political appeasment, except, interestingly, the main editorials have not been tarring and feathering the prime minister.

This distortion of the Globe's coverage of the current crisis falls somewhere between caricature and hallucination: today's editorial cheered Harper on as he applauded war crimes and state-sponsored terrorism.

It is literally beyond belief that such repeated hearty endorsements of Harper's approval of Israeli crimes could be called, litote-style, 'not been tarring and feathering the prime minister.'

A misstatement as inaccurate as it is shameful, to be sure.

Not that most readers of this blog have shown much concern for Canada's reputation as a defender of international norms, of course.

I have to give Anderson "The Mole" Cooper credit for refusing to agree with Wolf Blitzer yesterday when Wolf asked him to compare the evacuation efforts to Katrina, saying that those comparisons only politicized the issue back home.

If only there was a Canadian journalist or two that would stand up like that.

Steven your an a terrorist cheering idiot! You know absolutly shit! International norms? Surely you mean "F**k the Jooos"

B Hoax Aware at 6:34, You hit the nail right on the head.

Sarge ; mandatory civil service, minimum of say three years? A wonderful solution to today's current "I don't know what kind of hyphenated Canadian I am" problem. Can you imagine the fuss CUPE would raise?

Stephen: "Like most Conservative supporters, you are easily impressed."

Well, given the PM's we've had recently, it's not that hard to be easily impressed. As others have noted, when the tsunami hit, it took us almost three weeks to get help there. Same thing when we sent DART personnel to help in the Kashmir earthquakes. Actually having the PM there in a few days is a welcome relief. And, since you apparently can't grasp the obvious - Harper had a plane in Paris (4 hrs flight from Lebanon). He could have chosen to return to Canada with all the media on board. He didn't have the option of taking a commercial flight; current Canadian security regulations prohibit that. So his choices were: return to Canada with the media (and of course, be hit with charges of his insensitivity), or do what he did (take advantage of the fact he had a Canadian military plane in proximity and redeploy it to best effect). Please explain in detail exactly what your objection to this is.

Part of the difficulty is the Canadian military doesn't have sufficient heavy-lift aircraft or helicopters, since previous governments have starved the military for various political reasons. Yet who is Peter Mansbridge and others blaming for Canada's response time?

As for Canada's reputation as "a defender of international norms", are we to assume that these norms include the right of an unelected group to brutalize and take over sections of a country, and use that area to bomb another sovereign country, to whose existence they are committed to destroy?

Sorry, that's not part of my Canada.

Now, if you have any testicles, Stephen, you might try to refute each of these assertions. Please be aware I'm not holding my breath.

we dont need no civil servants.
we dont need no thought control.
the liberals bought us lots of problems.
people , people leave them lebs alone.
all in all it just another brick in the wall.

Has anybody besides me noticed that this is a racially motivated conflict. The Lebanese are an occupied country, both Syria and Iran have active military presences uninvited by the Democratically Elected Lebanese gov't. To say nothing at all about the international and homeless Hezbollah organization who is largely squatting in their claimed turf also against and beyond the power of the Lebanese to truly resist. Much like the darker hollywood crime story movies. Lebanon has not asked for intervenor action from the UN to correct these incursions against their just soverignty. Yet when the Hezbollah terrorist and crime organisation crosses the border grabs a couple of Israelite soldiers and drags them back accross the border into their sqatters claimed lands, The Lebanese inexplicably support their internal usurper crime organisation. Having written this now I can really only draw this conclusion, the lebanese are using the Hezbollah organisation as a front for their own true intentions, a mask so that should they fail in their attempt (whatever that may really be) it will not be the Lebanese gov't who will be brought up on war crimes for the instigation of this conflict.

Daryl

Nice try at a conspiracy theory, Daryl but I think that the average Lebanese muslim is sympathetic towards palestinians and their cause. The sympathy of the average Mo in Lebanon has no doubt resulted in apathetic indecision in both the Lebanese government and the military.

Mississauga Matt, thanks for the list of foreign nationals as per the BBC's published list. I am doubtful that the numbers are accurate to within 50%. But I may be proven wrong in the next few weeks and will keep an open mind about that.

Daryl Haaland, you make some good observations. I'd go further in that I think the Lebanese government would have clobbered Hezbollah and reclaimed control over its territory -- if the Lebanese state had the military means by which to do much clobbering.

Syria, and Iran, and the Hezbollah, all of them have a much greater stake in keeping Lebanon defanged than does Israel. But it is Israel which has the military means to knock the stuffing out of the Hezbollah squatters. No matter who does the deed, it must be done if Lebanon is to become sovereign again.

And yet I cannot fault the Lebanese PM for the tightrope walking he has been doing. His country is being pounded. His population is increasingly being displaced. The prospect of occupation has always existed -- whether by Israel or Syria -- and no PM can be seen "inviting" the invasion of his country. Heck, I can't see him even welcoming it behind the scenes. It is a war and damage is being done to lives and property. Deaths are mounting.

On the other hand, sometimes the fight cannot be avoided. The Lebanese military has not taken sides. That way would lead to civil war, I think. So the politics in Lebanon are extremely complicated by factors that most of us in North America could not imagine.

But if the Israeli military action does nothing more than cripple Hezbollah and warn-off Syria, it will be a victory, longterm, for Lebanon. A painful victory. I don't expect any PM to welcome the painful part even if, realistically, he must watch his back while he watches Israel do what his own government would have done itself.

Iran is the strongest hand with the puppet strings making the actors dance. I think they have gone too far and will probably be chased out of the region. What that might lead to is anyone's guess. I'd expect that the Iranian nuclear program will come to a sudden hault, unilaterally. Before this Lebanon campaign is over.

If Israel can achieve its military victory rapidly, and can extend a non-occupying hand to Lebanon, longterm, there is an excellent opportunity for countries like Canada to protect the sovereignty of the Lebanese until they can do it on their own. And, regionwide, that means more commimtnet, yet again more commitment, in Afghanistan and in Iraq, with Lebanon a natural extension of that commitment.

I'm willing to bet the numbers of Lebanese-Canadians (40-50k) is a gross exageration.

I also expect the true number to be verified after the fact to the disapointment of the cbc

AP says the barrage "fell short... of their targets". Really? Is there a cover-up? Would AP make up lies?

A complete report from Louise Arbour/Kofi Annan is not expected. How long has the UN been in Lebanon, anyway? Peacekeepers, yeah. Peacekeepers in blue helmets? ...-

Israel: Hezbollah rockets hit U.N. post (in Lebanon)

Associated Press ^ | July 21, 2006
JERUSALEM - A barrage of Hezbollah-fired rockets aimed at northern Israel fell short of their targets and struck a United Nations observation post in Lebanon, the Israeli army said Friday. An army spokesman said it wasn't immediately clear if the United Nations Interim Force post was occupied at the time or if there were casualties.
free republic

I'm willing to bet the numbers of Lebanese-Canadians (40-50k) is a gross exageration.

The CBC was reporting last night that the feds had already been contacted by 32K.

there may not be any Canadian warships in the area, but I'll bet there is a Canada Steamship line ship within a days run.

a couple of cases of perrier, some linen table clothes, and load all the journalists on it and take them out to sea for the next two weeks.

where is the Old Captain Canada- Brian Tobin and Admiral Mr. Dithers -PMformerPM?

they should be flying in to Tel Aviv and crossing the northern border leading the wayward Canadian citizens to the sea.

I've been awake with the T.V. on for the last 45 minutes. Virtually the entire time I was up there was a constant stream of newscasts of evacuees suffering from "nausea" and saw two different interviews with people saying the Canadian government "failed them".

Unbelievable.

I guess in the future Canada should have a quick reaction force on standby for those who become citizens of Canada and then return back to their war torn countries to live.

My barber is Lebanese; his wife and daughter are briefly in Lebanon on vacation and visiting relatives. I offered that he must be very worried about them with the current situation. His response was "Naw, they're fine." and seemed completely nonchalant about the whole thing. Usually, very anti-American and anti-Israeli, his laconic offering was that what was happening was going to make the country better in the long run. I was gobstruck but subsequently looking at the BBC's map of Lebanese internal demographics it struck me that Lebanon is another of these colonial national creations that Europeans left behind. If, as I suspect, he's a Sunni Muslim (and he clearly is muslim) then the family likely is in a safe area of Lebanon, and the purging of the Shiite Hezbollah won't cause them to shed a tear.
I'm inclined to agree with Daryl and Chairm. Politically, Lebanon is anything but homogeneous, and the central government is still weak and forced to continually walk a tight rope in its efforts to maintain any semblance of national cohesion. But provided the infrastructure can be restored post conflict, and provided the conflict doesn't drag on too long, this may have a "cleaning" effect that will allow the Lebanese central government to gain greater control and greatly diminish the influence of the militant foreign proxies within the country. Let's hope.

Note how quiet the ME states of Egypt, Jordan, Iraq and SA are about this conflict. And Europe.

They've realized that it's Iran behind the whole set-up - and it was a set-up, with Iran and its side-kick, Syria, setting up Hamas to go into Israel (an act of war) and Hezbollah to go into Israel (an act of war) to kidnap its military; and, Hamas/Hezbollah to fire rockets into Israel. Why? To get Israel to attack Gaza and above all, Lebanon. It hoped that Lebanon would dissolve into civil war, as the gov't fought the 'state within a state' Hezbollah. Then, Syria would move back into Lebanon. Instead, Israel is doing that job, of destroying Hezbollah.

Iran wants to rule the ME, it wants to take over the whole ME. One tactic is to get Syria back into Lebanon. Another, is to keep democracy out of Iraq which is why Iran is behind the insurgents there. Another tactic is to get the Arab states against the West and Israel. But, so far, none of this is working. Instead, Egypt, Jordan, SA are sitting it out and/or even actively siding with Israel!

Don't think that Iran will give up its ultimate plan. If it doesn't get control of Lebanon back for Syria, it will still go ahead with its nuclear ambitions. What might happen - just a guess - is that the other Arab states might even turn against Iran!

I seem to recall Ottawa giving control of immigration to Quebec.

IMO, that was a really dumb thing to do and I would not be surprised if that is what has led to a situation where Canada has many citizens of convenience from Lebanon.

I would be curious if the same situation exists in Algeria for instance and/or any other former French colonies.

I think having a province with control over immigration and citizenship could prove to be recipe for disaster for the rest of Canada.

Not only did alot of these people get a free ride home, but I wonder how many are looking at it as an opportunity to get a "free" holiday back in Canada - maybe get some health care while they are here - and...

Mark my words.....

They will all expect "free" transport back to their homeland when this all over!

expect free transport.
they will demand it.

when things cool off they will claim they were coerst into coming. we will be paying compensation for nausea , lack of food, lack of perrier.

the lawyers are likely handing out cards at the airport.

Israel Army Girls!

Never seen by MSM.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1669904/posts

"We are working in a diplomatic plan which would tackle the violence to which we attend and the roots of this violence", it added. "It will be an international..."

Root causes? Oh, no. Condi Rice said that....

TBA this afternoon. Cover your ears?

free republic

CTV is finally starting to interview people who are thankful for the Canadian gov't assistance in exiting Lebanon. Of course its intermingled with a disproportionaly large nunmber of complaints. Including the woman holding her child saying "if i knew it was going to be like this i would have stayed in Lebanon with the bombs" Your welcome ma'am.
Currently, CTV's Robert Fife is starting to report that the evacualtion has gone for the most part smoothly and that "most people are praising Harper's effort to evacuate them" So if most ppl are praising the effort why is it that 99% of the comments that make it onto CTV's newscast are entirely negative and ungrateful? Which is it?

"The CBC was reporting last night that the feds had already been contacted by 32K."

Yes, I saw that, too.

I think it is more accurate to report that officials estimate that about 32,000 Canadians in Lebanon have registered with the government. For the sake of the staffers, and especially the Canadians in the war zone, I hope the registeration system is very, very, accurate even if the current estimate is ballpark.

How many are seeking evacuation, and how many will actually evacuate if given the opportunity, we will find out in due course. In any case, I think already we can see that reports of 50,000 were overblown. That's to be expected in crisis situation.

I wouldn't be too hard on the distressed people now arriving. Venting is to be expected. Putting a camera on them and broadcasting the complaints as if that was "typical", that's irresponsible.

Most of these evacuees will realize that behind them there are many more who are still in the que. So to arrive safely in Canada (or in another safe haven) is to be very privileged.

Next, how best to help the homeless arrivals while the wait for stability to return to Lebanon? They have arrived and there's no escaping the needs that will arise.

I agree with Chairm that the current situation must be adjudicated under the current statutory regime. The proper time to harvest the growth from the seeds of debate that have been planted in the name of the nature of national commitment is after the temporally local details of the latest event have been dealt with, but that doesn't mean that the young plants that are now sprouting in that topic's row shouldn't be nurtured.

As a Canadian/Cypriot here are some home truths for the whiners - the ferry ride is maximum 10 hours to Cyprus - do you really need a f**cken leather couch and cold drinks if you are being evacuated from a war zone you CHOOSE to visit for a short hop across the Med ( hardly the crossing of the Queen Charlotte Straits in winter)
Secondly , under the international law the lefties so love , if you are a dual citizen , when you visit the country of your birth ,you have NO RIGHTS TO CONSULAR SERVICES from your "country of convenience" The fact that
Canada is prepared to honour even dual citizens with the privelege of being evacuated speaks volumes about why many of us love and honour Canada - all of the "Lebanese-Canadians" who whine and complain should piss off back to the Bekaa valley , I hear the weather is simply lovely - its raining shrapnel at the moment!
Ask Hezbollah if they are prepared to evacuate you in an airconditioned luxury liner - oh , I forget , they are too busy fighting Israel down to the last Lebanese woman and child.
God bless Canada

Hearing all the bitching, complaining and whining stories emanating from the evacuees, all I could think was:

Yep, they're Canadians alright.

According to Jane Taber in the Globe & Mail

"Mr. MacKay [...] emphasized that his focus is still on the safety of 30,000 to 40,000 Canadians there. About 4,000 Canadians have been evacuated; another 6,000 have indicated they want to leave."

According to CBC-TV

"Approximately 10,000 of the estimated 50,000 Canadians in Lebanon want to be removed from the war zone."

Looks like about 10,000 is the immediately expected size of the Canadian evacuation.

Also, Canada appears to have the largest contingent of citizens (including dual-citizens) in Lebanon. Is this due to the francaphonie angle and the 30 year-old ties with the ex-pat population in Quebec?

* * *

And:

"Approximately 34,000 Filipinos work in Lebanon. Plans for their departure by ship are underway."

"[Sri Lanka] is planning ... to rescue the first batch of 200 migrant workers, out of an estimated 80,000."

"Eight thousand of the 17,000 French citizens in Lebanon asked to be taken out. So far, 2,000 have been taken out."

"It is thought that approximately 8,000 of the 25,000 Americans in Lebanon want to be transported out. So far, about 3,000 have been taken out, although 6,000 Americans were expected to have been out by July 21."

* * *

The Canadian effort seems to be on part with the French and American evacuations. Far better than the Sri Lankan and Fillipino can do with their resources. Hopefully, if aid is need on the spot, or if refugees need longterm protection, NATO can organize quickly with American, British, and European resources made available. Looks like that is shaping up already.