sda2.jpg

July 15, 2006

"I Stand With Israel"

I find it shameful and see in all this the rise of a new fascism, a new Nazism. A fascism, a nazism, that much more grim and revolting because it is conducted and nourished by those who hypocritically pose as do-gooders, progressives, communists, pacifists, Catholics or rather Christians, and who have the gall to label a warmonger anyone like me who screams the truth. I see it, yes, and I say the following. I have never been tender with the tragic and Shakespearean figure Sharon. ("I know you've come to add another scalp to your necklace," he murmured almost with sadness when I went to interview him in 1982.) I have often had disagreements with the Israelis, ugly ones, and in the past I have defended the Palestinians a great deal. Maybe more than they deserved.

But I stand with Israel, I stand with the Jews. I stand just as I stood as a young girl during the time when I fought with them, and when the Anna Marias were shot. I defend their right to exist, to defend themselves, to not let themselves be exterminated a second time. And disgusted by the anti-Semitism of many Italians, of many Europeans, I am ashamed of this shame that dishonors my Country and Europe. At best, it is not a community of States, but a pit of Pontius Pilates. And even if all the inhabitants of this planet were to think otherwise, I would continue to think so - Oriana Fallaci, (2002)


Update - Michelle Malkin has reprinted the essay with links imbedded. She also points to speculation about the Vatican statement - be sure to check it out (and thanks, Michelle, for the link).

Posted by Kate at July 15, 2006 10:16 AM
Comments

Thanks for the link SDA: I read her article, and had to look up the word "kaffiah"; it is also spealed "kafeyah" and is the cotton headress worn by some muslim men.

I am experiencing an ominous sense of foreboding... not just this article, just everything, Russia, Mumbai, Lebanon etc... I must give up the news for awhile, too depressing!

Posted by: Bushman at July 15, 2006 10:40 AM

I like her.

She is charged with hate crimes in Italy and censored all over Europe IIRC.

I see Canada just sent a guy to prison for 7 months for having a web site that was deemed to be hateful.

It makes the hair on the back of my neck stand up because how often does anyone go to jail in Canada for a nonviolent offense?

Also I prefer to know who thinks what.

IMO Canada is on a slippery slope with hate speech laws and I fear how they may be used against our future generations.

Police unions attacking community web sites with lawyers, judges jailing people for speech crimes that have no actual victim, Parliament legislating Americans cannot own bookstores, having the CBC used as a political arm of a national party, these things creep me out.

Posted by: concrete at July 15, 2006 10:43 AM

The question that should be asked--how often does anyone in Canada go to jail for VIOLENT crimes?
The thought police are the only ones with any power in Canada--I'm with you concrete--murderers let out on bail(the Jane Creba shooter)time and time again while someone like Stephen Truscotte has to fight years to try and get his name cleared--welcome to Big Brother Canada.

Posted by: George at July 15, 2006 11:00 AM

Great article, contents reminds me very much of our past liberal governments outlook.

Posted by: Western Canadian at July 15, 2006 11:20 AM

Mumbai, Lebanon ,N Korean missile launches, Iran kicking up are all part of one plan of sorts IMO; Iran is the lead head of the Medusa.

Posted by: Rich at July 15, 2006 12:15 PM

Chaim Potok, writer of The Chosen, Davida's Harp, and My Name is Asher Lev, to name only a few of his books said it well, "We Jews are either loved too much or hated too much."

"Pray for the peace of Jerusalem:
'May they prosper who love you.

Peace be within your walls,
and security within your towers.'"

Psalm 122

Posted by: new kid on the block at July 15, 2006 12:50 PM

The Worlds Biggest Book store here in Toronto only carries Oriana Fallaci's "The FORCE of REASON", which I bought from them and read in one night.
I'm sure once they find out they stock it, it wil be yanked as quickly as they yanked the Western Standard.
Chapters does'nt have any of her books, nor the Western standard.
Toronto is a pitiful mewling wet kitten, we surrendered years ago.

Posted by: richfisher at July 15, 2006 1:18 PM

Fascists from Iran to Algeria get sympathy and support from left-leaning people in North America and Eurabia, they're a sick bunch.

Posted by: philanthropist at July 15, 2006 1:33 PM

2 sides to every story, Kate, not that I expect to see the other side here. So much hate...what a shame.

Posted by: swingvoter at July 15, 2006 1:35 PM

Fallaci is the last European liberal in the traditional and honourable sense of the world. She is also one of the greatest journalists of the century. She is dying in New York - a political exile afraid to set foot anywhere in Europe (not even in that former beacon of democracy, Switzerland) - because freedom of speech is dead there and she will face prosecution.

Posted by: Zog at July 15, 2006 1:51 PM

No, no, no ... swingvoter ... not
so much hate
but so much sadness ...

Posted by: JanPieterzoonCoen at July 15, 2006 1:51 PM

Europe, Syrop ... who wants to be there anyway?

Posted by: JanPieterzoonCoen at July 15, 2006 1:53 PM

VIVA FALLACI!

As her health fails, long live her words and spirit!

Posted by: Doug at July 15, 2006 1:54 PM

So much hate...what a shame

But, you can make a difference.

Have you considered being a human shield at Hezbollah headquarters or at one of their missile launching sites in southern Lebanon? How about preaching religious tolerance in the streets of Tehran or Darfur? Or, fasting for love and peace with Bin Laden?

Go for it. Keep us posted.

Posted by: penny at July 15, 2006 2:06 PM

Hard to disagree with her. Westerners risk dropping the torch at the very time people around the world are clamouring for our classical political/cultural/economic institutions. I share her dismay at the lack of leadership, especially in Europe.

Posted by: DrD at July 15, 2006 2:19 PM

I'm with you Doug. VIVA FALLACI!

Very compelling figure. It is uplifting to see someone who knows where she stands and is not afraid to shout it out. Very compelling figure.

Posted by: John Crittenden at July 15, 2006 2:32 PM


Swingvoter Said "2 sides to every story, Kate, not that I expect to see the other side here. So much hate...what a shame."

Ah, so how about spending a little time and enlightening the rest of us, then we can have a duscussion Swinger.

Posted by: ward at July 15, 2006 2:34 PM

Viva Orianna!

Posted by: Tom at July 15, 2006 2:47 PM

Im glad you can see the other side "swingvoter" because history will record this action as a case study of what happens when countries fail to control the evil growing within their own borders.

We all control our own destiny to a great degree.

This rule applies to Canada as much as it applies to Lebanon.

Consider that next time you cast your swingvote.

Posted by: Red Dodge at July 15, 2006 2:55 PM

I stand with Israel too. I'm "pray[ing] for the peace of Jerusalem".

I also stand with Oriana Fallaci. It's time for the West to wake up from its drug--often, literally-- induced slumber and face reality.

In that context, I hope that Canadians are aware that the Charter of Rights (sic) and Freedoms (sic) is anything but and is being vigourously used to suppress both in Canada: The enforcers of our human rights (sic) tribunals and activist (left-wing) courts are jackbooting Canadians into saying and doing things against their conscience, as well as fining them, and even sending them to jail if their opinions don't match the present orthodoxies, and the accused refuse to have their rights compromised. Here. In Canada. I'm not making this up.

Rory Leishman, the national affairs columnist for The London [ON] Free Fress has written an important new book, Against Judicial Activism, which has just been published by McGill-Queen's University Press, which documents the frightening supression of conscience and free speech in this gulag--whoops, I mean country--of ours. This book is a must-read for all freedom loving Canadians.

Interesting thing about all the victims of oppression in this book: Not one is on the left of the political spectrum. I wonder what swingvoter thinks of that.

swingvoter, you want to know about hate in this country? Read this book and learn about the tyranny of the "tolerant, diverse" left as it uses the Charter to cruelly suppress rights and freedoms in this "free" country, and punish fine Canadian citizens who may dare to dissent from PC thinking. You'll see lots of hate and it's sure not sda types.

Check it out, swingvoter. Then please feel free to come back and actually DISCUSS your cowardly "drive-by" slur on people at this site.

Posted by: lookout at July 15, 2006 3:31 PM

So much hate...what a shame.

Guilty as charged: I hate terrorists.

Posted by: Mississauga Matt at July 15, 2006 3:32 PM

Good post over at Instapundit re Hizb'Allah not following the Geneva Conventions.

As Professor Reynolds points out:

Well, it's certainly true that Hezbollah isn't following the Geneva Convention. (And that's leaving aside the whole deliberately-targeting-bar-mitzvahs thing.) But that's true in a lot of ways, and it's certainly also true that the volume of outrage directed at them is much lower than the volume of outrage directed at Israel and the United States for far less serious infractions.

Posted by: Mississauga Matt at July 15, 2006 3:41 PM

2 sides to every story, Kate, not that I expect to see the other side here. So much hate...what a shame.

Posted by: swingvoter at July 15, 2006 01:35 PM

What puzzles me is why it's not okay to hate terrorists who, wothout provocation, blow up everyday folks on their way to work and who behead innocent captives (on T.V.) in the name of their fascist belief system. My goodness, do we still get to hate Nazis? Or have they been rehabilitated, as well? Even if it's "hate the sin, not the sinner" there's still an element of animosity involved.
The problem with folks like swingvoter is they can't believe that someone hates THEM and wants to KILL THEM. All of their "liberal" ideology, taken as gospel, tells them that we live in 2006, for heaven's sake. Besides, if we do have an enemy it must be of our own making. Time for much self examination, breast beating and apologizing for the crusades or even saying crusade. Jihad anyone?
If we questioned rape victims in the same vein, blaming the victim for the violence as we do in Israel and now Iraq, can you imagine the outrage by this same group? Mass insanity is the only explanation.

Posted by: Tom at July 15, 2006 3:45 PM

well that kinda leaves me with nothing to add ...

Posted by: Robert J BA BSc at July 15, 2006 3:47 PM

Swingvoter: I think that ET attempts to give us the other side of the story here at SDA. There have been a number of debates here at SDA regarding the Israel / Palestinian issue...real, honest-to-goodness debates, not name-calling and denunciations (although there has been a bit of that).

Through your snide comment, it would appear that you are attempting to belittle the SDA contributers for being close-minded and intolerant when it is actually quite easy to demonstrate that this is not so. Please point us to a liberal/leftist blog that discusses both sides of the story more so than is done here.

No? Shame on you for your fraudulent attempt.

Posted by: Hassle at July 15, 2006 4:09 PM

swingvoter . . just another way to say stuck on stupid.

Hey swingvoter . . head, arse end, yours, remove.

Fresh air will do ya a world of good . . .

and for the record, I hate terrorists and apologists for terrorists.

Can ya take a hint ??

Posted by: Fred at July 15, 2006 4:09 PM

The Iranian War Conference
Little Green Footballs ^ | July 13, 2006

It was only last Saturday that Iranian president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, at a two-day conference attended by officials from Bahrain, Egypt, Kuwait, Iraq, Jordan, Saudi Arabia and Syria, called on the Islamic world to mobilize and wipe out Israel.

Less than a week later we see the results of this conference. LGF. ...-


A previous conference: The Wannsee Conference.

Topic: "The Final Solution" ...-

Stamp: Top Secret

30 copies
16th copy

Minutes of discussion. I.
The following persons took part in the discussion about the final solution of the Jewish question which took place in Berlin, am Grossen Wannsee No. 56/58 on 20 January 1942.

Gauleiter Dr. Meyer Reich Ministry for the Occupied
and Reichsamtleiter Eastern territories
Dr. Leibbrandt

SS-Obersturmbannführer Eichmann ...-
more... via eurodocs

Posted by: maz2 at July 15, 2006 4:51 PM

Your citation of Fallaci's article is an act of importance.

If Iran/Syria/Hisbullah/Hamas has its/their way, Jews will indeed exterminated a second time. In Israel, the Jewish homeland.

The difference between Israel's position now and the position of European Jews immediately before World War II is that there are a substantial number of non-Jews (some in politically and militarily important positions) whose political and religious principles motivate them to come to the aid of persecuted people everywhere, even if they happen to be Jewish.

And who do not consider it "disproportionate" when a state is ready to enter into war to protect only three of its citizens.

Thank you for posting this segment from Fallaci's writings.

Posted by: Mark Jay at July 15, 2006 4:52 PM

How many rounds of intellectual sparring could swingvoter go with Fallaci?

Her pasta has more substance.

Posted by: penny at July 15, 2006 6:13 PM

An indicator of what more Michelle Malkin has on this:

Douglas Urbanski, who has inside Vatican contacts, reports that the views expressed by Vatican Secretary of State, Cardinal Angelo Sodano, who issued the statement while the Pope was on vacation, are renegade views and asks the question that needs to be asked: Does the Pope back Sodano's statement? Urbanski points to this story on the rift between Pope Benedict XVI and Sodano. He'll have more tonight as a guest host on the Rusty Humphries show. Tune in.

Posted by: andycanuck at July 15, 2006 7:01 PM

Wonderful article and so timely!

Posted by: beth at July 15, 2006 7:31 PM

Travel Web site takes side trip into battle
MSNBC ^ | July 14, 2006 | Mike Brunker

As hostilities have escalated between Israeli forces and Hezbollah guerrillas in Lebanon, an Internet site devoted to air travel has become an unlikely venue for cross-border dialogue and up-to-the-minute reports on attacks and troop deployments.

Flyertalk.com, which hosts a forum that usually is devoted to discussing how to get the most out of frequent-flier programs, charted a new course on Wednesday when “Dovster,” a regular contributor from the northern Israeli kibbutz of Yiron, posted that he had been awakened by “a rather loud exchange of artillery fire.”

In the hours that followed, Dovster pieced together what he saw and heard with local news reports to determine that the blasts were the sounds of Katuysha rockets being launched from southern Lebanon and landing not far from his home.

(Excerpt) Read more at msnbc.msn.com ...
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1666429/posts

Posted by: maz2 at July 15, 2006 8:44 PM

...I stand with Israel also.

Posted by: tomax7 at July 15, 2006 8:59 PM

Does anyone know if a Canadian Muslim organization has made any statements critical of Hizbollah's actions against Israel? I stand with freedom and democracy for both Israel and Lebanon. Do any muslim Canadians stand for that as well and have the guts to say so?

Posted by: Martin B. at July 15, 2006 9:31 PM

Why stand behind either of them?

It's just like taking a bunch of red ants, and putting them inside a jar of black ants. They will fight until one group is dead.

The horrible criminal is the player who deliberately and forcefully put the two groups in close proximity in the first place.

Don't stand with the black ants. Or the red ants. Stand against the jar holder.

Posted by: Stoutt at July 15, 2006 9:39 PM

richfisher - I bought my copy of The Force Of Reason at an Indigo uptown at Yonge and Eglinton. As far as I know, Chapters/Indigo knows perfectl well what they're selling - there was a pile of it on the sale table in the History/Politics/Sociology section. Hard as it is to believe - in the end, they probably just want to make money.

Posted by: rick mcginnis at July 15, 2006 10:21 PM

Stoutt, your lousy moral equivalency is showing. Smarten up!

Posted by: lookout at July 15, 2006 10:25 PM

Nothing about this is credible coming from Kate McMillan...the embodiment of Western Canadian Nazi-ism...anti-fat-people, anti-smoker, anti-insert-your-own-variable, equates to anti-no-one-like-me.

Turn Saskatchewan into a smouldering nuclear crater.

D


Posted by: David Lockwood at July 15, 2006 11:04 PM

David, what was that?

Are you doing a Napoleon Dynamite imitation or what?

You're hilarious.

Posted by: penny at July 15, 2006 11:17 PM

The moon must be rising , the bats are coming out.

Posted by: Red Dodge at July 15, 2006 11:30 PM

D. Lockwood:
"..embodiment of Western Canadian Nazi-ism...Turn Saskatchewan into a smouldering nuclear crater."

Lockwood, thanks for the good laugh. You must have been the teacher's pet. Please give some examples of Nazi embodiment in the post or comments, I really want to see them. Do you even have a whiff of a notion of what nazism is? If so please tell us so our redneck western brains can follow your assertions.

Also, taking your nuclear crater opinion to it's logical conclusion, Sask shouldn't even be mining uranium, right? You see any other businesses Sask should bail on? Would that include tar sands development or coal fired power plants? I'm wondering if you've got any substance to your curious comments. I'll give you my western embodied viewpoints if you care to share yours.

Posted by: Martin B. at July 15, 2006 11:42 PM

It would be kinda ironic that such a tiny nation such as Israel - no bigger than Vancouver Island - would help bring international terrorism to its knees.

I say go for it - Shana Tova Israel!

Posted by: tomax7 at July 16, 2006 12:21 AM

Speaking of 'nuclear craters'... anyone driven Sask. roads lately.

Posted by: Bruce at July 16, 2006 12:31 AM

Whatever...you have to read this blog for a stretch of months before it hits you in the face. Don't get me wrong...I'm a conservative and I'm supporting Israel in this conflict...but this blog is hardly a place where I'd wave a flag for the oppressed.

D


Posted by: David Lockwood at July 16, 2006 12:36 AM

Lockwood you wouldnt know a conservative if one kicked you in the nuts.

On second thought you might..

That would more than likely be me.

Posted by: Red Dodge at July 16, 2006 1:00 AM

D.Lockwood:
"you have to read this blog for a stretch of months before it hits you in the face"

So you're not willing to back up the assertions in your previous comment with actual examples? Not exactly filling your boots with credibility, eh? Maybe you should check to see if you need a diaper change. Think anyone with more tha half a neuron bought the "I'm a conservative and I'm supporting Israel" schtick?

Posted by: Martin B. at July 16, 2006 1:02 AM

D...

...ohhh loooooookie...a shiny thing!

Posted by: tomax7 at July 16, 2006 1:08 AM

Bruce..."Speaking of 'nuclear craters'... anyone driven Sask. roads lately."

Ha! Good one!

Posted by: tomax7 at July 16, 2006 1:09 AM

there will be a reckoning in front of God Himself to those who profane His truths and inclusiveness.

there will be a reckoning against those commandeering and usurping God's presence in the world.

I know this.

MY innate emphasis on truth opened my eyes to this one. I therefore am grateful in that I refuse to engage in beliefs or actions that would put me in that group.

so-called televangelists (insert names), firebrand preachers steeped in political machinations. mullahs re-re-re-reinterpreting and cherry picking passages of the koran.

aaaaaaall lumped together for all to see. presented the one-time-opportunity option of devising their own punishment and restition order or receiving the default. if their custom designed penance is deemed insufficient to match their wrongdoing, then the default will be much, much worse, so the incentive is to FULLY acknowledge the measure of their willful error.

I know this will happen.

Posted by: Robert J BA BSc at July 16, 2006 1:34 AM

Ya know...people like you all make me want to join the Liberals...maybe that's what consistently has defeated conservatism in Canada...you all showing your true face...it is very ugly and I wouldn't want to count myself among you. Nationalize Alberta petroleum and leave the filthy western rednecks on the street....if they want to separate, good riddance...if I was an Israeli...I don't think I would want you on my side either.

D

Posted by: David Lockwood at July 16, 2006 2:32 AM

Anti-fat people #1
http://www.smalldeadanimals.com/archives/001077.html

Anti-fat people #2
http://www.smalldeadanimals.com/archives/001728.html

...gotta tell ya...being talked about casually on blogs like you are a disease, makes you enemies.

Dave, the fat guy who smokes (kiss my ass, Alberta).

Posted by: David Lockwood at July 16, 2006 2:41 AM

D. Lockwood spoketh...
"Ya know...people like you all make me want to join the Liberals... and, Nationalize Alberta petroleum and leave the filthy western rednecks on the street..."

So you really are a Liberal!

Posted by: mcleodnine at July 16, 2006 2:48 AM

David Lockwood, I don't have a clue what you're talking about: You've been asked to make a case. BTW, that's quite different from simply insulting people.

For example, I'm obviously lumped with all the deviants (sic) at this site. Perhaps you could elaborate on how I fit this category in reference to my earlier post in this thread, which mentioned a very recent Canadian book, Against Judicial Activism.

This book documents the Canadian left's bigotry towards and and intolerance of a particular group of Canadians. The book clearly outlines the left's hijacking of the judicial branch of the Canadian government via its gross misuse of the Charter and its shameful use of tribunals and courts to very successfully suppress and punish the conservative group with which it disagrees. The freedom of expression of this group of Canadains has been altogether curtailed, some have been fined, and even put in jail.

Given that another government treated the Jews in a similar fashion, I think Israel--if it should ever find out!--might be content to know that the Canadian oppressors generally support the Palestinians. Those who are being suppressed generally support Israel. So there you are.

Check out what I've said, David. Then please feel free to come back and actually DISCUSS your cowardly "drive-by" slur on people at this site.

P.S. "Waving a flag for the oppessed"? I'm doing it. Here. On Kate's blog. In Canada. I'm not making this up.

(But, David, you might not be inclusive and tolerant enough to care about the group being discriminated against. How does that square with your fine idea of yourself?)

Posted by: lookout at July 16, 2006 8:25 AM

Geez, Dave, you're a bit touchy about this whole "fat smoking guy" thing, aren't you? You're throwing around big old nasty words like "Nazi" but it's the perceived bias against chubbies and cancer sticks that obviously really bothers you. I don't know, but I think maybe building your whole identity around being a fat smoking guy who's not from the prairies is a bit of a flimsy basis for a life, don't you?

Besides, if you were a real conservative, you wouldn't go around whining about the consequences your own decisions - like overeating and smoking.

Sorry - I paid attention to the troll.

Posted by: rick mcginnis at July 16, 2006 8:52 AM

To your back...I have you Kate!

Posted by: WarHammer at July 16, 2006 9:44 AM

I guess you can take the Pope out of Nazi Germany, but you can't take the Nazi out of the Pope...

This is the Hitler youth guy... remember?

I don't find his comment controversial or contrary.... I find it expected.

Posted by: TBB at July 16, 2006 11:07 AM

TBB -

Did you read all the way through the Malkin post?

At the end, she added:

"Douglas Urbanski, who has inside Vatican contacts, reports that the views expressed by Vatican Secretary of State, Cardinal Angelo Sodano, who issued the statement while the Pope was on vacation, are renegade views and asks the question that needs to be asked: Does the Pope back Sodano's statement? Urbanski points to this story on the rift between Pope Benedict XVI and Sodano."

So please try and holster the "Pope = Nazi" stuff until you have all the information. It's the sort of rhetoric that's uncomfortably close to the brilliant political analysis we've come to expect from the left side of the stalls.

Posted by: rick mcginnis at July 16, 2006 11:26 AM

The gullible slowly fade away LOL

How many did the US lose in the first gulf war?
Add this to the 382 that died quickly.
DU Death Toll Tops 11,000
Nationwide Media Blackout Keeps U.S. Public Ignorant About This Important Story
This view was expressed by Arthur Bernklau, executive director of Veterans for Constitutional Law in New York, writing in Preventive Psychiatry E-Newsletter.

“The real reason for Mr. Principi’s departure was really never given,” Bernklau said. “However, a special report published by eminent scientist Leuren Moret naming depleted uranium as the definitive cause of ‘Gulf War Syndrome’ has fed a growing scandal about the continued use of uranium
munitions by the U.S. military.”

Of the 580,400 soldiers who served in Gulf War I, 11,000 are now dead, he said. By the year 2000, there were 325,000 on permanent medical disability. More than a decade later, more than half (56 percent) who served in Gulf War I have permanent medical problems. The disability rate for veterans of the world wars of the last century was 5 percent, rising to 10 percent in Vietnam.

They've quadrupled the use of this WMD, War crimes are being considered against the Bush gang, watch this september. All troops are being tested for DU contamination with high numbers showing signs of poisoning.
This doesn't count the Bio weapons testing in missouri a few years back, they say they were dead spores but now we have all this anthrax starting from the test sites, LAKE OF THE OZARKS, to saskatchewan.
John Hanchette, editor of USA Today from 1991 to 2001, in a recent interview with anti-DU activist Leuren Moret, said he had written several news stories about the effects of DU on gulf wars veterans. Every time he was ready to publish a story about the devastating illnesses afflicting soldiers, however, the Pentagon called USA Today and pressured him not to publish the story. Hanchette was eventually replaced as editor and now teaches journalism to college students.
Thats what happens if you speak about their dirty little secrets. Look at Plame and the US agents that died because of Bush, one in Iran was executed shortly after her outing. To bad so many republicans are speaking out about the truth behind 9/11, takes your leftist angle away. lol
Exposing the 9/11 Conspiracy Wingnuts
By Bill Douglas
www.informationclearinghouse.info/article13969.htm

So come on War mongers beat those drums sign your children up. Maybe they'll have nice isolation areas for them when they come home.

Israel is using the same in Beirut/Gaza and will be charged with the same crimes.

Posted by: neutralsam at July 16, 2006 11:41 AM

1) Pope Benedict was CONSCRIPTED--look that up, TBB--to the Nazi Youth and got out as soon as he could.

2) David, waiting to hear from you.

Posted by: lookout at July 16, 2006 11:48 AM

And neutralsam said.....nothing really. ho hum.

How Frisch of him.

Posted by: Robert in Calgary at July 16, 2006 12:10 PM

May I add a remark or two from south of the border?

We cannot doubt that David is a real Liberal. He wants to nationalize Alberta's oil industry, after all, and stealing private property is part of the make up of every socialist, whatever they call themselves.

In another matter, like Bushman, I, too, get an "ominous sense of foreboding" about the state of the world and the future we seem to have before us. It's going to be a very hard and dangerous ride. However, I do take heart from the advent of the internet and the blessing of blogging. If traditional Canada and traditional US are to have a fighting chance in the future, and if Old Europe has any chance of recovering the ground it has already lost to radical Islam, communication will be key, and blogging will be the means by which this communication will take place.

I take heart every time I discover another blog site in Canada and especially in Europe and the Middle East that is run by people who share the things I believe in. Not long ago I was developing a near hatred for Canada. Hostility from Canada toward us was violent and relentless. Everyday another nasty comment about bastards freezing in the dark etc. I concluded that every Canadian, or nearly so, hated us and did so for reasons I could not understand. I refused to travel north of the border, buy Canadian goods or stand for "O Canada." I gave the finger to the Canadian flag whenever I saw it and loved doing so. Now, however, thanks to blog sites like this one, I know that my conclusion was not solidly based. Yes, David probably hates me and us; after all, he seems to hate many fellow Canadians in Alberta and elsewhere in Canada. But I know now from the Blogging Tories that many Canadians don't feel this way toward me and my country at all, that Canadians by the millions also feel the way I do about democracy--real buttom up democracy--and share many of the views I hold about home and country. I also take heart from seeing a Canadian PM take strong positions, act with dignity and begin the process, perhaps to David's horror, of rebuilding Canada's military strength. The change in tone of his government compared to the previous 13 years has been remarkable and welcome. I no longer give Canada's flag the finger. I am again standing for your national anthem, and I will no longer react with a "NEVER" to the idea of traveling north of the border. This is what blogging has meant for me, and so I take heart when I hear others say "I stand with Israel" or with Oriana Fallaci. Goodness knows, we are not going to hear this kind of strength from the MSM, now will wwe.

So I say again, I take some heart from the world of internet blogging as a key part in the defense of our way of life, and if Old Europe has any hope of new thinking/behavior that will rescue it from the EU and radical Islam it will come largely from the bloggers. Just two weeks ago, or there abouts, a new blog site started up in Norway and is run by what I think is a young Norwegain who is horrified, yes, horrified, by what Mulim immigrants are doing to his country. He will not be stopped by predictable charges of racism coming from the Left in their attempts to silence him. And check out one of the best blogs I know of, namely, The Brussels Journal and the recent Fjordman acticle about how radical Islam is decapitating the capital cities of Europe. It is an out standing piece, and note, take note, more than 4400 people have viewed, and presumably read all or part of, this powerful article.

But if internet blogging can by pass govenments and the decadent media, if it can produce an awareness of what is really happening around us, an awareness that is needed to take on radical Islam, the internatioanl Left, including the Democrats in this country, and such monsters as the European Union, and if this awareness leads to action and a mobilization of forces, then all is not lost. But I don't think there is a lot of time for blogging to work its magic, especially in Europe, and if it fails, well, then, Bushman will have been right all along.

Posted by: Minnesota at July 16, 2006 12:23 PM

if you can't stay on topic, keep your fingers off the 'post' button.

Posted by: Kate at July 16, 2006 12:34 PM

How can you "stand with Israel", when Isral is the oppressor with overtones of Nazism.

Posted by: Opinionated Voice at July 16, 2006 12:51 PM

Just so you know where he's coming from, "Opinionated Voice" indicates he's a Muslim in England.

His site's current entry is entitled "Israel: The New Reich," and features a swatika superimposed on an Israeli flag.

Lovely.

Since our Muslim friend brought up Nazism, perhaps he can explain the popularity of Hitler's Mein Kampf in the Muslim world. Maybe he can explain why Palestinian mufti Muhammed Amin al-Husseini spent the war years as a guest of Uncle Adolph. Maybe he explain why Eichmann's deputy Wisliceny said of the mufti

The Mufti was one of the initiators of the systematic extermination of European Jewry and had been a collaborator and adviser of Eichmann and Himmler in the execution of this plan. ... He was one of Eichmann's best friends and had constantly incited him to accelerate the extermination measures. I heard him say, accompanied by Eichmann, he had visited incognito the gas chamber of Auschwitz.

Posted by: Mississauga Matt at July 16, 2006 1:49 PM

CBC is reporting that 5 people killed in Lebanon held Canadian citizenship.

CBC is posting emails from viewers, and some of it is worthy of The Toronto Star's letters page. Mostly left-slanting, but what can you expect from the "people's" network?

The droopy-eyed bingo caller on CTV Newsnet called "bizzare" the juxtposition of the pictures of the G8 leaders dining well and being driven in limos versus the collateral damage going on in Lebanon. Note to CTV: you're the ones putting the pictures together.

CNN shows the same images of damage, whether it's Beirut or Haifa. Nice job guys.

Posted by: Mississauga Matt at July 16, 2006 1:57 PM

Maybe Kate meant me. I don't know.

But, Minnesota, thanks for your post. I think you were well within the philosophy of "I stand for Israel". The whole left-wing dispensation of the West has been and is against Israel: An attack on the left, in regard to the ME is, de facto, support for Israel, IMO.

With regards to Kate and apologies if I've overstepped any bounds.

P.S. God bless America!

Posted by: lookout at July 16, 2006 2:14 PM

It should be noted that these statements by Cardinal Sodano do not imply support for Hezballa as he also condemned their actions as he condemned "both the terrorist acts reprisals". The Vatican always condemns any sort of violence, usually they describe it as a "failure of humanity" which it is regardless wether it was justified or not.

Posted by: Bill at July 16, 2006 2:55 PM

I'm a Catholic. Cardinal Sodano is wrong. Israel has been far more patient than we had any right to expect it to be, and I stand with Israel.

Posted by: Silicon Valley Jim at July 16, 2006 3:11 PM

tomax7 said: "a tiny nation such as Israel - no bigger than Vancouver Island".

In actual fact, not only is Israel 'no bigger' than Vancouver Island, it's only 2/3 the size of Vancouver Island.

With stopovers outweighing drive times. by at least a 4:1 ratio, I've driven around most of Israel in a day.

Posted by: Nemo2 at July 16, 2006 3:19 PM

Mississauga Matt: Thanks! Very well done. While I demur from throwing around the Nazi label, applying it to Palestinians is perfectly legit and measured. I predict no reply to yours.

Posted by: Me No Dhimmi at July 16, 2006 3:20 PM

An interesting site for those like neutered sam and opinionated lice
http://www.tellthechildrenthetruth.com/

Posted by: moses at July 16, 2006 4:22 PM

I stand with Israel, in part, because they *know* where they stand.

And they will let you know where they stand.

Posted by: Buffalo Bean at July 16, 2006 4:33 PM

Isn't the killing of Canadians an act of war?

Posted by: dave m. at July 16, 2006 4:42 PM

"Isn't the killing of Canadians an act of war?"

Maybe you could ask that of Iran,dave m.

Or the PM who was in power when it happened.

Posted by: Red Dodge at July 16, 2006 4:51 PM

Were there any Khadrs amongst the 'Canadians' killed?

Posted by: Nemo2 at July 16, 2006 5:02 PM

"Isn't the killing of Canadians an act of war?"

Were they Canadians at the time, or Lebanese-Canadians, holding their dual citizenship?

Guess there are times when it is better to honor belonging to one, and only one, country at a time.

Posted by: Buffalo Bean at July 16, 2006 5:12 PM

I was just at the Gov of SK liquor store: looking for some Iseali wine! Could not find any (union boycot?) had to settle for some Maeshewitz from Brooklyn and some Danish beer. I noticed that they sold rum from Cuba...

Posted by: Bushman at July 16, 2006 5:23 PM

8 Canadians killed in Israeli bombing. WTF???

Posted by: swiingvoter at July 16, 2006 5:40 PM

8 Canadians killed in Israeli bombing. WTF???

Posted by: swiingvoter at July 16, 2006 5:40 PM

I also stand with Israel.

What is Hizbollah doing in southern Lebanon with thousands of missiles, where have the Lebanese authorities been to allow such a stockpile of weapons, let alone terrorists? For that matter, where the blazes have the world authorities been? And they are all complaining about the Israeli response? I do not blame the Israelis for ignoring their crocodile tears.

If Lebanon is indeed so week and pathetic that it allows terrorist groups to operate in their country unchallenged then the current retaliation by the Israelis should come as no surprise to them. What the UN must do NOW to bring stability to the region is to send in a MILITARY force into Lebanon to exterminate Hizbollah. Until they are willing to do this, they should stay out of the current conflict and let it run its course.

Posted by: Mark M at July 16, 2006 5:43 PM

Just watched the CTV news: very biased against Isreal.

Posted by: Bushman at July 16, 2006 6:11 PM

"8 Canadians killed in Israeli bombing. WTF???"

So murdering Canadians is ok because it was Isreal?

Posted by: dave m. at July 16, 2006 6:29 PM

The Protocols of the Daily Kos, Part 5 ( Hates Israel )
Little Green Footballs ^ | July 16, 2006 | antisemites at Daily Kos


Israel’s battle against Hizballah and Hamas continues to bring out the antisemites at Daily Kos: The case against Zionism, a historical perspective part 1.

The writer of this diary congratulates him/her/itself for criticizing Israel without being antisemitic—yet the entire purpose of this semi-literate diatribe is to question Israel’s right to exist.

Quote :

"I have decided to write this essay because I have noticed a general lack of understanding of the the history of the conflict on this board.

This writing is intended to showcase where the philosophy of zionism conflicts with my own philsophy on morality(which I believe almost all posters on this board share), not as an angry diatribe against those who are pro Israel.

I realize that reading an essay about anti-zionism is difficult for americans of jewish descent.

I respect your emotional reaction to defend Israel, who are a tiny minority among the world’s population. ...-
LGF

Posted by: maz2 at July 16, 2006 6:36 PM

"8 Canadians killed in Israeli bombing. WTF???"

"So murdering Canadians is ok because it was Isreal?"

Murder? Don't think so. Wrong place, wrong time, just like Dresden, Frankfurt, Berlin, etc., unless of course you believe that they were deliberately targeted because they were Canadian? People die in a war fool and it is a war, a war brought on by the Lebanese government's inability/disinterest in reining in a bunch of terrorists, who have been launching rocket attacks against Israel from Lebanon for the last year.

Posted by: moses at July 16, 2006 7:01 PM

From George Washington's farewell speech:

"So likewise, a passionate attachment of one Nation for another produces a variety of evils. Sympathy for the favorite Nation, facilitating the illusion of an imaginary common interest, in cases where no real common interest exists, and infusing into one the enmities of the other, betrays the former into a participation in the quarrels and wars of the latter, without adequate inducement or justification. It leads also to concessions to the favorite Nation of privileges denied to others, which is apt doubly to injure the Nation making the concessions; by unnecessarily parting with what ought to have been retained; and by exciting jealousy, ill-will, and a disposition to retaliate, in the parties from whom equal privileges are withheld. And it gives to ambitious, corrupted, or deluded citizens, (who devote themselves to the favorite nation,) facility to betray or sacrifice the interests of their own country, without odium, sometimes even with popularity; gilding, with the appearances of a virtuous sense of obligation, a commendable deference for public opinion, or a laudable zeal for public good, the base or foolish compliances of ambition, corruption, or infatuation."

Posted by: DJ at July 16, 2006 7:05 PM

Mahmoud Qumati appears on Al-Manar Television (August 19, 2005)


In the morning hours of August 19, three Katyusha rockets were fired from Aqaba on the southern Israeli city of Eilat and the Gulf of Aqaba . One of the rockets landed near Eilat airport. Two additional rockets were targeted at an American ship in the Gulf of Aqaba . One of th em hit Jordanian soldiers, one of whom was killed and the other wounded. An organization calling itself “Abdullah Azzam Battalions, Al-Qaeda, in Syria and Egypt ” claimed responsibility for the terrorist attack.

In an interview granted to Hezbollah's Al-Manar Television on August 19 (the day of the terrorist attack), Mahmoud Qumati, a member of Hezbollah's Political Council, was asked by the interviewer, among other things, to comment on the Katyusha rocket attacks. In response, Qumati praised the attacks, saying that any action, by any party, targeted against Israel or “the American military presence” was a good action since there was “an American plan to attack the region”. In his view, however, Al-Qaeda should limit its attacks on American targets and step up its attacks on Israeli targets. Qumati expressed his hope that Al-Qaeda would step up its attacks on Israeli targets and that all of its attacks on “other targets” [Muslim? other Western countries?] would come to a complete halt.
http://www.intelligence.org.il/eng/eng_n/m_qumati.htm
You make your bed and then you lie in it.

Posted by: moses at July 16, 2006 7:13 PM

G8 and Harper not waiting to see if the dead are the "right's" kind of Canadians:

"In a joint statement hammered out despite significant difference, the leaders of the Group of Eight industrialized, democratic nations called on Hezbollah to free two prisoners and stop attacks on Israel, and for Israel to halt its military action.

Prime Minister Stephen Harper said "it is an important, strong, and unanimous statement," that called on Israel to show "utmost restraint" and blamed "extremists" for the violence, said CTV's David Akin, reporting from G8 talks in St. Petersburg, Russia.

Harper also said his government is doing everything it can to protect Canadians in Lebanon, including discussing with allies if they can help."

link

Posted by: dave m. at July 16, 2006 7:59 PM

Rick and lookout,

I did read the post... however history got in my eyes.

Pope Bene is going to have the offical line of "I was conscripted, got out as soon as I could" otherwise he wouldn't be the Pope. You think we would have seen black smoke from a guy who said, "Well I was really digging the Nazi youth... It was like cubs, only with more Jew hating badges..." Besides, from all German accounts in the late 1930's, the atrocities, the final solution were not known to the general populace.

So how would a 15 year old kid know that this was the wrong thing at that time, especially when all his pals probably were in the same "den". Sorry the offend those who view the Holy See as chosen by God, but the Vatican does have its fair share of atrocities in its past as well....

Bene needs to realize that WWII war wounds are still there and him being German, maybe he should pick his battles a little wiser...

Posted by: TBB at July 16, 2006 8:27 PM

Now that Israel is using missiles to target airports, power grids and innocent Canadian "collateral damage" to force Lebanon to "rein in Hezbollah," how long before outraged Canadian citizens start throwing pipe-bombs at synagogues and targetting prominent Jewish businessmen to force Israelis to rein in PM Ehud Olmert?

And who can blame them?

Violence begets violence. If overwhelming violence and overkill is all the Israelis respect, they'll get theirs.

I have been a lifelong Baptist and staunch supporter of Israel. But that's gone now. I think the Vatican is right to condemn Israel, and I will be urging my congregation to do the same.

You reap what you sew. And Israel will reap the whirlwind.

Posted by: Bob Richardson at July 16, 2006 8:49 PM

Fly to Tel Aviv Bob and give them your high and mighty sermon.

Better yet, go to northern Israel and deliver it.

You don't seem qualified for your position Bob.

I'm so tired of clueless people.

Posted by: Robert in Calgary at July 16, 2006 9:08 PM

Lame cliched comeback Robert. "Go to Israel, nah nah nah." Very lame, Robert. Very cliched. I'm talking about synagogues. In Toronto. Getting pipe-bombed. I hate the idea of it, but it's going to happen. And I guess we can all get smug and blame that on Iran, too.

I'm so tired of self-righteous morons.

Posted by: Bob Richardson at July 16, 2006 9:13 PM

Bob Richardson :

Thank the Good Lord most Christians, a bore your form of Bigotry. I am not Catholic ,but dollars to donuts.
What you take as condemnation, is the usual Vatican reaction to any war. Besides the Pope has yet to speak on this, & the Vatican has its factions like every aspect of human endeavor or social organization at every level..

No Pastor I know would mistake sow with sew. Another lying troll. Well, who woulda figured it eh?

Thanks for posting this Kate. A very discerning Women. I wish the men there had some testosterone instead of creeping cowardice disease causing massive impotence & loss of virility. It also effects Marxists & socialists, if not pretend Ministers. Canadian men are not immune

I feel her pain. At least I used to under the socialist regime of Paul Martin. At every kiss he gave any tyrant that came along. Same with the Cretin. I felt acquit shame. Particularly at the anti American bashing, just for political power , with no thought to the long range consequences. More loony actions..

I pray fervently we are out of the pit these Marxists dug for us. Next election will decide.

To watch ones Nation die is a traumatic experience. Hers is the scream of rage at those that have sacrificed two millenniums of social , scientific, religious development, on the alter of an ideology of suicide. To beggar before a medieval assassins, cult of Barbarians.

It would have been us under Martin with his cronies puppets of the there Patrons in crime.

I will also stand by Israel. I repeat. No Nation in History has more right to defend themselves.

To the Faux Pastor. I hope you re-read the Abraham covenant in the OT & the Book of Hebrews in the NT. Then like the devil perhaps you wont use scripture out of context.

Posted by: Revnant Dream at July 16, 2006 9:26 PM

Poor, poor Bob.

Not original enough for ya.

Of course it's not cliched for prigs as yourself here in comfy, cozy Canada to moralize about what Israel should be doing. Hmmm?

I suggested the travel precisely the first hand experience would do wonders for your perspective which is quite lacking.

Now, If you're so concerned about anti-semitic attacks here in Canada, what are YOU going to do to prevent them, other than bashing Israel to your congregation??

Canada and Israel are on the same side Bob. We're the good guys. If you're not with us Bob, who are you for?

I'm not even close to being a self-rightous moron Bob, try something else.

Are you going to share your charming posts with your congregation??

Posted by: Robert in Calgary at July 16, 2006 9:32 PM

Now that Israel is .. to force Lebanon to "rein in Hezbollah,"

Actually Bob, they're reining in Hezb FOR the Lebanese government.

Posted by: greenmamba at July 16, 2006 9:32 PM

Nemo2, not sure what your intent was, lighten the mood? I really don't think your comment was appropriate in that we have no idea who they were, just Canadian.

My husband's step-father is Lebanese from immigrant parents, he is one of the sweetest men who ever lived. Although he has not been back in years he used to enjoy going there. We would be worried sick if he was over there like I am sure many families are here now. Please don't judge who these people could be, they are likely just average folks like my FIL and his whole family.

To some of the others who point out that Israel has murdered Canadians, were they waving a Canadian flag that you are aware of?? I don't think so, just wrong place at the wrong time which is sad. I am sure that there are Canadians in Israel too, have you thought of that? What if they get injured or killed? This is WAR, Hezballah even said so, haven't you noticed?

Israel made sure that pamphlets went out telling people to head north, has Hezbollah done the same? These terrorists hide in civilian areas, they are looking for maximum damage so they can pretend to be the victims when they are the perpretrators of it all. When they crossed the border killing several soldiers and kidnapping two others, firing rockets, just what was Israel supposed to do? They did demand the return of the soldiers first, the thugs said "no" so here we are.

Posted by: Anne (happier in Ontario) at July 16, 2006 9:44 PM

Israel has a devine right to be there. Their bible tells us so. Right??? If you believe it. It was written by Jews. I think it's a load of crap like all religions. It's a good philosophy in some ways but not the word of any God. Israel is as bad as any extreme muslim. They are like Northern Ireland was. They have forgoten what the fight is about. Someone has to stop this crap before more people get killed.

Posted by: ok4ua at July 16, 2006 9:45 PM

ok4ua, wasn't it the UN who sanctioned that this was where they should be? Since you are saying no, just where should they be, hmmm...?

I don't think they have forgotten what the fight is about at all. Stay out of their area and leave them alone, that is all they ask. History has taught them well that if they don't stand up for themselves then there could be dire consequences.

Posted by: Anne (happier in Ontario) at July 16, 2006 10:03 PM

Bob Richarson, your posts are utterly offensive.

I teach a child who used to live in Haifa. I emailed her parents today to let them know that I am concerned for the safety of their family there.

I learned that a rocket had landed within half a km of one grandmother's house and that the other grandparents are staying in the "fortified" room in their apartment. Business as usual: The Israelis are used to being attacked in their own communities by their "neighbours".

I thought at first that your musings about pipe bombings of Canadian synagogues was black humour, E.g., After Islamic atrocities many people seem more concerned about possible "Islamophobia" than the very real, very violent, very lethal attacks themselves. Then I realized you were serious--sort of as if you think synagogues SHOULD be bombed.

Your thoughts are vile, Mr. Richardson. They are altogether unworthy of a Christian. (I hope you're just a parishioner and not a pastor.)

I too am a Christian. I pray for the peace of Jerusalem--check out Psalm 122--which will never happen as long as Israel's bloodthirsty, barbaric neighbours desire its destruction, which, Mr. Richardson, they do. (These fanatics also desire the destruction of all freedom loving societies, including the very one your live in. And you support these jihadists? THAT could be a definition of "moron".)

As for you, Mr. Richardson, I think your post shows a serious lack of knowledge and discernment. You obviously need to manage your altogether misplaced anger: Maybe posting here's part of your therapy.

Posted by: lookout at July 16, 2006 10:03 PM

ok4ua - Utter piffle. Please crawl back under your rock. (Why not take Mr. Richardson with you?)

Posted by: lookout at July 16, 2006 10:11 PM

Fair assessment, lookout. I converse reguarly with a former IDF soldier and his concerns for his family are the same. However, does standing with Israel mean looking the other way when the IDF kills civilians? Already we see 7 Canadians are dead and only the "left" seems to care. Not one flicker of concern to be found here or on similar sites.

Posted by: Cynapse at July 16, 2006 10:54 PM

Israel is as bad as any extreme muslim

Really?

Could you please cite examples of Jewish head hacking (on the giving end, that is, not on the receiving end)?

Could you please name the last time a Jew hijacked a plane and flew it into a building, committing the largest mass murder on American soil, including the murder of 24 Canadians.

Could you please show me the news articles that describe how Jews cut some civilian American contractors to pieces, strung them up to a bridge, and then danced around as they were set on fire?

Posted by: Mississauga Matt at July 16, 2006 10:55 PM

Already we see 7 Canadians are dead and only the "left" seems to care.

What happened to those Lebanese-Canadians is terrible. No one is happy about it, right or left.

The left “cares” inasmuch as they can use the deaths to demonize Israel. The left shows an appalling inability to “care” when Jews are killed. Katuyshas have been falling on their heads for some time, and when Israel decides that enough’s enough, all we get from the left is this dopey “disproportionate response” meme, with no suggestion of what would constitute a proportionate response, and all the while leaving unsaid that the Israeli’s should just take it.

Posted by: Mississauga Matt at July 16, 2006 11:11 PM

From the Voice of America website

"On Sunday, Israeli forces hit the house where the Canadians were staying in southern Lebanon, near the Israeli border."

Looking the other way?? What concern would you like expressed?

Is "vacationing" in Hezbollah controlled areas a smart thing to do? Am I to beleive they didn't know what the situation was before they left Canada?

If only the terrorists would all wear a common uniform and organize in clearly recognizable military units and encampments. Yes?

If it was 1944 I would advise people not to vacation in Berlin.

"The Israeli Army issued a statement saying it had warned civilians to get out of the area because it was used by Hezbollah to fire missiles into Israel."

All you folks who "condemn the violence", what are your thoughts on the Lebanese government ceding control of parts of its country to terrorists to be used as a base of operations for attacks on a neighbouring country?

Any practical comments out there?

Posted by: Robert in Calgary at July 16, 2006 11:12 PM

Cynapse, I already posted my feelings about the killed Canadians prior to your post so that is a lie along with your other insinuations. Plenty of people are upset and have said so on many sites, what the hell is wrong with you?? Be decent or leave.

Posted by: Anne (happier in Ontario) at July 16, 2006 11:38 PM

Robert,

Would you advise people to move to Berlin in 1944? Israel is still welcoming immigrants, some of whom settle directly in the war zones. Should any of them die, you and many others won't be content with a dispassionate headline in the voice of America.

Israel's attacks hit civilians that were following their orders to flee.

And as I recall, Robert, the Lebanese just won a long campaign to get Syria (one of the financiers of Hezbollah) out of the country. Your question (which suggests the Lebanese are strictly part of the terrorist conspiracy) negates this fact. As one Druse woman put it to me, "we try to stay out of it". Is it worth rationalizing bombing these people?

But you will get a "practical" answer anyway. If Israel wanted to get rid of Hezbollah without wiping out masses of civilians then they could put boots on the ground and TKO Hezbollah strong points via guerilla warfare. The IDF is expertly trained at this and know very well they can take out Hezbollah military assets (which are scattered around suburbs) while causing less damage than airstrikes. It would seem nearly obvious to do in the only neighbouring country that is not universally hostile (exception: Egypt) and in the absence of any confirmed IDF casualties in the region.

Posted by: Cynapse at July 16, 2006 11:39 PM

Anne,

Your outrage about the Canadians was followed by a very long justification for the action ("This is WAR, Hezballah even said so, haven't you noticed?"). Rarely do people feel the need to slap this disclaimer on when criticizing civilian attacks on Israelis. If I have to "leave" for pointing that out then is this really a fair discussion? I understand this is a highly emotional topic, but can we please keep it civil?


correction: the point about casualties was incorrect. There were casualties in the initial Hezbollah strike

Posted by: Cynapse at July 16, 2006 11:49 PM

Civility it is then.

I don't see myself as justifying it but more like pointing out the facts which seem to be getting lost now that Canadians have actually died in this conflict.

Hezbollah has been pushing for a while now, just what is Israel supposed to do? They are surrounded by other nations which are committed to their destruction, they make that VERY CLEAR. Please don't suggest that all of Israel should just pack up and leave, not going to happen. They should make peace with Israel, such as Egypt has, and leave them alone.

All nationals on both sides should get out as fast as they can, pending help of course. If any choose to stay then there is not much to be done about it.

Posted by: Anne (happier in Ontario) at July 16, 2006 11:58 PM

Fair enough. Canada is on its way with some boats to accomplish just that.

Peace? Well we can hope ... peace means different things to different people though. Some forms of "peace" you wouldn't want. Have to go, take care.

Posted by: Cynapse at July 17, 2006 12:03 AM

TBB - was it "history", or personal bias? I'd say that you seem to have a pretty serious animus against the Pope and the RC Church, judging from your insistence on these points.

Once again, the statements made by Sodano are not to be taken as papal pronouncements, and it remains to be seen what Benedict actually has to say. Sodano is not a favorite of the Holy See, and has been disciplined in the past.

And you're presuming a remarkably familiar knowledge of just what a 15-yr. old German would know and think over 60 years ago - obviously you're unwilling to take what he has to say at face value, preferring your own imagined version of events. Fine - just stop pretending this is anything but your own bias talking, and spare us the jerry-built sanctimony.

Posted by: rick mcginnis at July 17, 2006 12:28 AM

Robert in Calgary :

Excellent post.

Perhaps I am wrong in why these individuals stayed.Here goes.

I can only conclude 4 options. Since all groups issued warnings to leave, even before the conflict.

1) There either Morons who got caught in a cross fire, because they where to stupid to heed the warnings.

2) Some had family or other related business, that they where willing to gamble there life’s on.

3) They where being forced to be human shields.

4) They stayed in support of this band of maniacs.

No matter what the reason, they should have let but made a decision (the wrong one it proved ) to stay in a war zone.

If you can think of other let me know (O:]

As far as I am concerned they made a bad choice. Why blame Israel for personnel individuals actions? They knew the score.

This changes Nothing. It was not premeditated or malicious. Its an accident of war. I stand by my word. Israel has every right to fight this. After all there concessions. Not only that but to use the very land they gave back to use in the assaults.

By the way where can a rag tag band of poor goat herders, as the MSM are calling them. Get such sophisticated missiles? Even robot drones. No way, unless there in league with a greater power. With plenty of money. I wonder who? We all outta think on that for a while, long & hard.

This groups is Iran’s little mobsters stirring up the ante.

Posted by: Revnant Dream at July 17, 2006 1:01 AM

I love reading the crap spewing out of leftoid mouths - smells like - victory.

If I ever think an idea or opinion is wrong, I just listen to the leftoids, and all is well again. Really, if you want a good recipe to live life without having to think so darn much, listen to the moonbats, and do (or think) the opposite.

Works great.

Posted by: bcf at July 17, 2006 1:20 AM

uuuuh, mr synapse:

the difference here is unlike vacation spots the world over free of civil war, if you want to go to a jewish nation you have to go to Israel. its the only one.

on the other hand there are lots of arab nations. some infested with hezbollah.

get it? try to be a tad more encompassing in the facts and realities of this conflict. agenda agenda agenda. just *cant* admit there's more to it than you want there to be.

blame Israel blame Israel. do you think if not another rocket zinged into haifa that the jews would still agitate years from now to keep up the conflict ?? do you deep down truly think the y*want* this going on ??? dont answer the question, just think about it and when you do have the answer keep it to yourself. it might allow you to be more honest about it.

Posted by: Robert J BA BSc at July 17, 2006 1:25 AM

Anne: I'm sure your FIL is a good person.....my comment was not directed to him, or those like him; however, it is an unfortunate FACT that there are many 'Canadians of convenience', and, if the estimate of 40,000 Canadian citizens currently in Lebanon is even close to being correct, one cannot but wonder how many might share the Khadar's sympathies.

Posted by: Nemo2 at July 17, 2006 3:30 AM
Site
Meter