If they catch him he will be out in the community again before we know it. If this is an updated police photo does that mean he is known to the police from previous crimes?
Who in their right mind would want to be a policeman? They are nothing more than targets for this kind of garbage. And our Injustice System will see that he gets the best treatment while our police will have to go through an internal investigation because they used their weapons! Thank God for the gun registry, eh?

I opened the website just now and had to stop and call home to make sure my brothers (both RCMP officers) were not involved. At times like this I wish SK was in the US so they could just track him down and shoot the bastard.

If they catch him, he will be dead or in jail until trial: they will throw away the key if he's convicted, and rightly so.
Mildred is West of PA, not East.
The gun registry is a waste of resources.
Policing has always been dangerous, always will be: most do it knowing the risks, and they do it because they are brave and honourable: my thoughts and prayers are with them.

Bushman said it for me.

HANG HIM FROM A TREE BY THE NECK TILL HE IS DEAD AND SCREW AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL

My thoughts and prayers are with the two officers and their families.

It's sad to see sleepy little towns lose their charm and innocence to guys like this and the effects of drugs such as meth and related criminal activity.

Really now,that seems kind of harsh.

Think theres any chance it might work..?

I prefer they find him dead of self-inflicted gunshot wound, actually. Save everyone a lot of trouble and expense, while preventing further injury.

Kate,
I don't violate your site with my usual language because you are a lady. However, consider it done here against the justice system, the parole board, the courts, the gun registry, the public attitude towards crime, etc. I could go on and on.
May our brave Mounties recover soon!

That was my thought too Kate, however I want whatever these officers and their families want.

Hang him by his mullet

I sincerely hope Mr. Dagenais does NOT commit suicide. That makes it too easy for the liberals to blame the "gun culture", his unfortunate childhood, dire circumstances, etc., etc., ad nauseum.

Now lets see the prosecutors call for an appropriate sentence ( hanging would be best, but...not in Canada...Pity!), at least life with no parole for 25 years. And let's see the judge "throw the book at him", as they should.

And when they don't, that's when the people of Saskatchewan have to protest, like the Indians at Caledonia, instead of politely writing letters of protest to their MP, which are destined for the round file, anyway.

One of my relatives in the RCMP was murdered on duty, in Saskatchewan, in 1978. The perpetrator was out within ten years.

The "suspect" who was finally nabbed over 6 months later in the Toronto Boxing Day Creba murder is already out on bail! Makes me sick.

I hope the residents have guns, just in case. Too bad leftists believe that only violent scumwads should be allowed to have guns rather than law-abiding citizens whose only real protection is the deterrence of having an equally deadly weapon.

Where's Dirty Harry now? We need some Dirty Harrys to tell the punks to "Go ahead... make my day".

Bad guys go around doing as they please, including shooting police officers, because they know they have more protection under the law than innocent folks do.

Our society and state must start taking measures to make it plainly clear that violent criminals will not be tolerated, period.

And I'm not talking about house arrest nor about healing circles. I'm talking about hard time in the hole... like at Alcatraz.

Stuff like this must be said more often.

Well , one thing you can say about the LPC.

They succeeded in creating a Justice system by & for criminals. As the liberals pillaged us , they too where encouraged by soft Judiciaries, to "get there own back" from society.

A whole philosophy was based on these lies. That men are born good. Now we pay for this drug dream, that its society that’s the REAL criminal.

The Murderer, thief, rapist, are all just victims of the horrible Majority of working people in society. That drove them to desperation. Thus we, not they. Are the one's who deserve punishment.

After all if your a Socialist or liberal you never have to admit to having any morals. Its all relative you know.

If you doubt it. Ask yourself why law abiding citizens always get abused like gun registries& such? Obviously the government does not trust the Public. Has no problem though allowing killers on the street.

My prayers go to the families hurt by another liberal criminal refugee. Who will be let out as fast as possible. I mean to some west hating liberals, a cop killing is like a birthday cake. Or Canadian soldiers dying for there Country. A longing to see them fail if not dead.

We have only ourselves to blame. Allowing Socialist zealots into power. If not letting them take control of this Nation. Look at the results. Poverty, corruption, crime, condensation, being treated like babies, odious taxes, failed education system. People dying from a none functioning health care system based on communism. On & On we could go.

If your looking for a reason, The Lefties are why we have no justice any more. For the citizan or Police.

Can we now finally, seriously, entertain discussion of a Federal Mullet Registry.

Does anyone know the two officers names? And are they okay?

According to canada.com, Marc Bourdages and Robin Cameron and they're still listed in serious condition. Let's hope they pull through...

About five miles, or less, east of Mildred is the Peterson farm. On August 15th 1967 nine members of the Peterson family were shot and killed in their home by Victor Hoffman, a random stranger.

It is sad that such a small area has to see so much tragedy.

Having served 30 years in the RCMP, now retired, I have seen way too many of these incidents. I hope to God they pull through. One has to remember, however, that gunshot wounds, even non-fatal, seldom fail to leave lasting consequences. I have a number of friends who were shot and mercifully survived and all have suffered permanent disabilities as a result.

To add insult to injury, three weeks ago in Surrey, BC, two bronze plaques honouring a murdered RCMP Constable that were attached to a bridge in honour of his memory were pried from the bridge...apparently the price of metals these days makes such items attractive to thieves...

Damn...I hate what has happened to our society...

Here's hoping that the two officer recover fully. I agree Bruce, our society really seems to have deteriorated.

Does anyone care to guess how many times this guy has been picked up and charged by the RCMP prior to this, only to be released back into society with little or no jail time served.

I'll wager that if the Libranos had spent 2 or 3 billion dollars building some new jails for creeps like this it would have been fairly easy to keep him locked up and away from the law abiding public. As an added benefit, if these creeps were kept locked up to begin with, police would be able to look after "fresh" criminals instead of having to arrest and deal with the same dudes over and over again.

Just my 2 cents.

My brother came over this evening and we were discussing the shootings. My brother reminded me that we both know Curt Dagenais. I haven't seen him since 1992 when I bumped into him on a job-site in Alberta. Curt never seemed dangerous at all, quite the opposite in fact, a peace, easy going fellow, but,(there is always a but) I do remember he enjoyed his Jack Layton Cigarettes and other pharmaceuticals.

Oh yeah, Curt also ALWAYS had a mullet.

.........i only wish they had got a warrant instead of chasing after him.All the ingredients were there:- They knew who he is, and what he had done,where it took place, and the time it happened. Was it worth getting shot trying to catch him? Lets just hope they pull through.

Art:

What on earth difference would getting a warrant have made? He was alleged to have committed an indictable offence, which makes him arrestable without warrant. Getting a warrant to arrest him would have resulted in what? An attempt to arrest him. With presumably the same result.

This type of police action, arresting people, occurs countless times daily...this is what police do. And, tragically, once in a while, they get injured or killed in the process.

..backing off and getting a warrant would have meant they wouldn't have got shot !!!!!Even a summons might have sufficed. Sounds like he wasnt going anywhere. What was the nature of the assualt?

"backing off and getting a warrant would have meant they wouldn't have got shot...Even a summons might have sufficed"

And if he had shot someone else in the interim? And who serves the summons, the post man?

The attendance of three RCMP members in rural Saskatchewan to a complaint indicates that the nature of the complaint was serious.

Using your logic, the police would never arrest anyone, on the basis that it would be too dangerous to have personal contact with a suspect. Not very practical...

..thats what the ERT team is for........

Look Art,

The initial call is reported to have been a complaint of a disturbance at a residence involving an assault. The police attend such matters every single day. Their purpose is to intervene, separate the disputing parties and take any appropriate enforcement action as required. The shooter was still at the residence when the police arrived. Upon their arrival he took off in his car, the chase ensued and then the shooting occurred.

"..thats what the ERT team is for........"

There are, I believe, two ERTs in Sask, one based in Regina and one in Saskatoon. Since they are volunteers whose regular jobs involve other duties, it takes some time to assemble them.

Under your theory, nearly every call of domestic violence would entail deploying the ERT. Don't think so.

Here's a suggestion: Contact your local police force/RCMP detachment and volunteer to go out one night on their "Ride Along" program. I promise you will find it enlightening, and you may get a better idea of what these folks actually have to deal with on a day to day basis.

Just what this thread needs is Art discussing tactics he knows nothing about. Hindsight is always 20/20. Those officers had to make split second decisions while you get to sit in your cozy home and second guess them.

What they did was what needed to be done. They have training and experience, but that can't account for every possibility. It seems like a lot of the time the police just can't win because everyone else is an armchair expert in what police do.

Instead of second guessing them you should be proud there are Canadians out there willing to do what is required. I hope with all my heart they pull through this and that the bastard that did it is caught quickly.

Nicely put, Angry....thanks...

....of course hindsight is 20/20..but maybe discussing this might prevent it happening again.In training are recruits not told "never chase an armed man..especially if you know who he is".The ERT tem is fully qualified, and can get about reasonably quickly.The idea is to prevent RCMP deaths ..not envcourage them. And, Angry Canadian, I speak from experience..like Bruce.And we know the public expects the Mountie to get his man...but at what cost? ERT teams were formed specifically for situations such as this.

Art...you speak from experience???

I was in the RCMP for nearly 30 years. Judging from your comments, my experience was considerably different from yours...

Not meant as a criticism, just an observation.

..the difference might be Bruce....when did you retire!!

Don't worry Bruce, there's an "art" in every crowd. I'm sure the events leading up to the shooting were circumstancial. These disputes or what have you occur all-of-the-time...EVEN in smalltown Sask! The RCMP get a dispatch call, and respond. Citizens weren't harmed S-wood, because RCMP staff were doing their jobs!!! And to hell with "hindsight", my heart is with those officers! Their comrades will catch the piece of garbage!

almost 9 years ago, but you know what Art, in light of the fact that there are two fallen members fighting for their lives at the moment, maybe this is not the right time or forum for this particular discussion....agree?

Feel free to email me at solutions@dccnet.com

So Art from your experience how long would it have taken an ERT team to respond to Mildred, Saskatchewan ? Also would the supervisors of Marc Bourdages and Robin Cameron authorized and paid for the call out of an ERT team from Saskatoon for a domestic disturbance ? I'm going with Bruce on this one since he already clearly stated what his experience is. I don't have experience in this, but I'm not going to decide well after the fact what these police officers should have done. Where would we be if police just let everyone run away ?

well Angry,YOU said it, not that it wasn't obvious..you DON'T have any experience.They wouldnt have "run away"..they would have just used one of the many tools available.Werent we told "discretion is the better part of valour".Yes they'll get him,dead or alive, but at what cost? Its just not worth it.Bruce probably remembers the other two Mounties who were killed near PA too, and that was a domestic dispute also.They are THE most dangerous type of call. Anyway this was interesting, and i'll leave it to the armchair policemen to resolve this. They alway know best.

I wasn't playing armchair officer you were. I also made it clear that I don't have the experience. I'm interested in your experience and what the norm would be for policing in a rural area. I also agree with Bruce that this may not be the time or place. Feel free to email me angry@angrycanadian.ca .

Let's see, Bruce with 30 years of RCMP experience or Art with... just what did Art do to make him an expert?

Answer: I'd have to go along with Bruce and also thank him for serving Canadians and his country. It is not a job I'd want to do. Thank God for the Bruces who will and do it well.

p.s. Wanna bet Art is also a military expert?

Would 35 years qualify me?and I dont claim to be an expert just a common sense ex-member..And don't ever suggest the ERT wouldn't attend because of a cost issue,Mr Angry.An armed person is always a reason to attend. You people should check out Angry Canadians website...just click under his name above....

Please check out my website !

Why didn't you just say you were an ex-member of the RCMP ? I wasn't being patronizing when I wanted to know about policing in a rural area. I'm from a large city and don't know about how most things operate in small towns. I didn't suggest that ERT wouldn't respond either. I asked if it would have been authorized and how long it would take.

The police in a small town generally know who the problem people are, as does everybody else for that matter. There are very few secrets in small towns.

On the weekends, near the end of the night, you can generally see the 'lads' checking out all the bars in town to see who is going to need attention later. Small thing to do, and it doesn't get everybody, but it is proactive, and smart. It's almost always the usual suspects, over and over.

Not that I would know anything about it, of course.

Steve

Well. Angry, I would have thought my comments would have clued you in as to my former occupation.And, things aren't any different in small towns than they atre in large cities..Preserve life, especially your own,coz dead you arent any good to anyone."Be careful out there"?..and being you brought up Mayerthorpe, you'd thing we'd learn something.

Is the "accused RCMP assailant" dead? CP says he is. ...-

Accused RCMP assailant remembered as easygoing, "super nice"
News1130 - 18 minutes ago
SPIRITWOOD, Sask. (CP)

maz:

As best I can tell from all of the news sources I have accessed, they have not located him yet, dead or alive...

Given what I understand of the terrain, it could take a while. At this point I have to assume that they have brought in the Alberta RCMP helicopter, which is equipped with "FLIR", (an infrared device to detect heat-emitting sources like humans) but the longer it goes, the farther away this creep could be.

Insensitive jerk that I am, I forgot. Sorry.

All the best to the men and their families and a hearty "Thank You!" to art, Bruce and Angry Canadian for your' bravery and years of service.

BTW, I meant 'lads' in the best sense of the word. I guess that you can take the boy out of the town, etc.

I would only add that in small towns, you play hockey, fish, etc. with the 'lads' and they generally know (or are) your' extended family. Makes for a better and safer environment all around. Dagenais notwithstanding. Toronto on the other hand...

Steve

Art,

For what it is worth, I have heard other police officers stating that they are trained to evaluate the threat and that pursuit of an armed man is not recommended. But I am not in law enforcement.

I did, however, grow up in that area and had met Curt on a few occasions.

I called a friend in Spiritwood today and he told me that what hasn't been released is that Curt beat up a female RCMP officer in the town of Spiritwood when she responded to the call of a domestic dispute. The house where the disturbance happened is literally a stone's through from the RCMP station.

That could be false, small-towns are known for gossip, but it would explain why the RCMP were so adamant about the pursuit.

Sorry for o/t, but a suicide was prevented this past week in Edmonton area when they used infra-red and found a hidden car with the outline of a hose leading from the exhaust into the front.

Trent ..."Thankyou"...I feel somewhat vindicated.

Steve, don't thank me for years of service. I was just stating my opinion and asking questions. Thank those guys.....

People, it is not a good idea to second guess or Monday Morning Quarterback situations like this. We don't know what the two officers ran into or their understanding of the circumstances of the call or what information they received from their dispatcher during the early part of the pursuit or what they knew personally.

In any felony stop there are a few seconds when it can go bad in a hurry, especially in rural areas. Lose visual around a curve for a few seconds and you can run right into an ambush. Say the suspect had a long gun and opened up while the officers were still rolling in.

We just don't know. You have three officer's statements to collate and scene investigation to do. Plus you have people out trying to find an armed suspect. In my experience and estimation when somebody with a history blows up, anybody he runs into for some time afterward is at risk, civilian or sworn. Better to pursue and try to contain the suspect. Sometimes you eat the bear and sometimes the bear eats you.

In the states and I imagine in Canada, you're sworn to "Protect and Serve" that seems to be what your officers were doing. Kick it upstairs, break off, and the circle of probability around the suspect gets larger and everyone inside that circle is at risk.

For interest, the loacation of Mildred and area can be found using GoogleEarth, 53 20 56 and 107 20 11 (LAT/LONG).

Steve:

If you are apologizing for the "lads" comment, don't. That is probably the best compliment you could pay to the members out there, and thank you for expressing it in that way. Members of the RCMP on detachment in rural areas have a wish...to be accepted in the community...after all, for the time that they are stationed there, they ARE part of the community...

When I was stationed in Turner Valley, Alberta, (my very first detachment)I had occasion to visit the curling rink in Black Diamond, a town about a mile away. Those in the facility tried to take great pains to point me away from what was then called "the snake room", where they drank their beer. I persisted, visited the "room", and had a beer with those in the room. Everything was fine.

The joke was...at the time, I was still under the legal drinking age in Alberta at the time, although those in attendance didn't know it of course...

I dont call it the justics system.

I call it the legal system.

backed up by the laws and statutes, it's legal but I have great difficulty sifting out true justice in far too many of these cases.

it aint just semantics.

following is o/t:

cops bring it on themselves sometimes. here in RobertJville there was a notorious case of some bloke got assaulted at the train station picking up a ticket, by some drunk who was antsy to get on the soon to depart last train of the day.

the whole t'ing wuz caught on video.

the cops answering the call placed by the train employees blamed the victim instead of the drunk who was also bigger.

bit of a furor over that one.

I dont know why anyone wants to be a cop these days. several centuries ago I wuz an auxilary wit' niagara regionals. saw an eye full in 2 years. came out describing cops as a thin resilient membrane between safe secure society and unimaginable chaos.

I dont feel that way any more. cops now are a bigger threat than the gang boys. they cant truss you up, beat the crap out of you and toss you in the hoochgow. cops can and do.

in torontario there wuz the infamous jane doe rape case. a lawsuit successfully launched by the victim who was used as 'bait' to catch the perp. cops knew he was making the rounds but told no one in hopes he would get caught trying for an instant replay. he did and was but that didnt cut it with the victim.

she went thru some 4 or 5 police chiefs before finally getting a full acknowledgement and apology. google it for the details.

Robert (with some letters behind yer name)

Lets try an experiment son.

Materials required:

3 RCMP officers, yourself,5 grams of crystal meth,
3 known gang members,1 lockable secure soundproof room,and one case of cheap whiskey.

Only items 1 and 4 are optional in your case.

I hold the key,now you make the call.

Bruce,

With your 30 years in service and with Art's years (not sure how many), plus my background in this area (still current btw), I think this has lead to a very interesting discussion.

Based on the information that has been made available (and not the hearsay), I think it's pretty easy to conclude that these 3 officers were doing what they needed to do. They knew the suspect was very agitated and likely armed. He was also a "known quantity" in the community. The pursuit was warranted in order to protect others from his state of mind. Pursuits often end with tragic consequences but not in this fashion. Most of the time, the suspect's vehicle either rolls, hits the ditch or strikes another vehicle while trying to flee. The police will do everything they can to pursue the suspect "outside the box" or, in other words, away from people and crowded areas.

The 3 members that carried out this pursuit were doing just that...pursuing a potentially violent suspect away from the populace. What happened after that, only 4 people know and 2 of them are not able to say, 1 has not been found and the other is quite obviously too shaken up to recount the night's occurrence.

Would I have rather seen this deranged lunatic set free by the police until a later time so they could execute a more safe, reasonable arrest? Absolutely not. In his state of mind, I don't think it would have mattered who stepped in his way or who's house he would have knocked at, someone was going to die that night. Not for one minute will the police let someone who is capable of committing a heinous crime llike murder just "walk away" until a warrant can be obtained. The man had already committed an indictable offense (already mentioned in nice detail in earlier posts by Bruce).

When I took that oath to protect and serve the public to the best of my ability, I knew I was putting my own life ahead of others in order to preserve their lives if it ever came down to that.

What these 3 officers went through on July 7th underscores what thousands of men and women do on a daily basis when they lace up their boots, put on their duty belts and straighten their hat before heading out the door to work. They are prepared, knowing that they may never see their famillies again.

The criminal once caught, meanwhile, gets 3 squares a day, satellite TV and all the paid university education they want.

For those who want to hear this particular suspect has taken his own life, may you get your wish.

For those who want to see this suspect live in prison til his dying day, may you get your wish.

For those who think it was foolish for these 3 members to chase down and try to apprehend a known lunatic in possession of a firearm? Better hope it's not you on the other end of the rifle barrel while the police back off, get a warrant and wait for the ERT unit to arrive.

PS: My prayers are with the families of all involved. May you all find peace and God speed.

p***off:
Excellant post, as well as Bruce. From what I gather, this lunatic already went through a yelling match at the RCMP office before he took off. The fact that he had a long barrel wepon in his truck when he left town, leads me to think he had an intention to do some one serious harm.
In no way should he have been let go. I am thinking that three members would prob. be sufficient to deal with some one like him. But put rage behind a gun, and anything can and will happen.
I have a Brother inlaw that isnow a retired member, as well as a very good friend that retired as a Sargent of a Detachement. I have nothing but respect for what these people do. I have also participated in three RideAlong oportunities, related to our Rural Municipality joining Rural Crime Watch. Only after I signed the mandatory concent form before the first ride, did I have a clue as to how serious that was. I enjoyed every minute of it, realizing that nothing "heavy duty" happened those three nites.
My prayers are with the families and the members involved in this incident. May it come to a "safe" conclusion for all except this derranged wack bar!
Mur.

Loner, eh? So was Albert Johnson.

The Mounties got their man, eventually. Canadian history is so dulll. ...-

Albert Johnson, the Mad Trapper of Rat River
In the early1930s, Albert Johnson,who had a cabin on the Rat River was accused of trapping on native traplines. When Constable AW (Alfred) King and Special ...
pwnhc.learnnet.nt.ca/exhibits/CBCExhibit/madtrapper.html - 11k -

Well Bruce ..apart from wanting to be needed and drinking all that seized booze when the cell got too full ...does MacDowell ring a bell? Two down..

..Ye s Bruce it was fun wasnt it...all that siezed booze, and don't drink with the NCO's at your peril.......

"apart from wanting to be needed and drinking all that seized booze when the cell got too full"

Sorry Art...I don't know what the hell you are talking about...

Both murders of RCMP in Alberta and the shootings here in Sask were shot by White Redneck terrorist not by a visible group. Most shootings of Police involve white/rightwing terorists more dangerous the Native or Muslims. They blend in and are harder to pick out. Both RCMP were shot in the head and both are critical and may die. BUt don't register rifles this way all the red necks in rural Alberta and Sask can keep their illegal rifles and there are hundreds. Police should have the right to enter a home if there is reason to belive there are illegal weapons on the premises. They should use the special certificates they use of immigrants. They should take them all.

And Art, if you are referring to the murders of Sgt. Robert Schrader and Cst. Doug Anson in MacDowell, SK in October 1970, I remember it only too well. Regrettably, since those two murders, a further 67 members of the RCMP have been killed on duty. Let's just hope that the honour roll numbers do not increase as a result of the events near Mildred, SK.

ok4ua,

Since I can use my powers as a peace officer, does this mean I can enter your home without a warrant because I MAY have the belief you have an illegal weapon? (by the way, most rifles and shotguns are NOT illegal).

While I'm on the subject, maybe I can enter your home to arrest you on suspicion of possessing a dangerous weapon...the one inside your head.

Smarten up and stay on topic here.

Too many RCMP are being shot. These two officers were driving their car. I think this open door policy of the RCMP should have restrictions. Their should be minimum height and weight.There should be two officers per car at night.There should be a high powered rifle in each car. The police seem poorly trained and they have forgotten that domestic disputes are dangerous. My Dad worked in law enforcement. He took the attitude "it was better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6." That makes 6 officers caught by suprise and killed. What goes on? Too many guns in the wrong hands? We'll have to start doing what American police do. Have their guns drawn when they stop someone. I think there is a lack of experience here with the police. There was an instance of a policeman shooting another policeman in his own domestic dispute. Police are human and sometimes in the heat of battle they forget what they were taught. I have no weapons at all oh a pellet gun. I don't believe in hunting and I know a lot of farmers have an arsenal on their farms. I don't believe in the death penalty. My Dad thought jail was no place for 16 year olds. He worked over 30 years in law enforcement. But the world is a lot more dangerous than it was 30 years ago.

ok4ua,

Yes, it's better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6, but what you are proposing is fiscally impossible unless you want more of your money taken in taxes. To simply snap your fingers and say 2 members per vehicle at night and high-powered rifles for each member in their cruiser is not going to help, nor is it even reasonable. What surprises me most about that suggestion is you completely ignore the fact there were 2 members in that one car and a lone member in the second one. Obviously, having 2 members in a car isn't going to solve anything.

Limiting access to weapons is not going to solve the problem either. Taking guns out of the hands out of the law abiding citizen is only going to drive those same weapons underground. If someone wants something bad enough, they'll do whatever it takes to accomplish that goal...whether it be acquiring a firearm when prohibited, being underage buying smokes or booze, or being banned from driving (have any inkling of how many DQ'd drivers there are on our streets?). Taking away something people need/want/require only drives the criminal element into taking more extreme measures to ensure they're getting what the want/need/desire.

In this particular case, a complete firearms ban across the country wasn't likely going to stop Deganais. He would have hidden his guns from the authorities and, as we have seen, would have used them to commit a crime. So, really, nothing would be solved by prohibiting guns.

What IS needed, however, is harsher sentencing in the first place. Why is it someone convicted of a violent crime often walks in an average of 5-7 years when someone like Robert Latimer takes the life of his own child in as humane way as possible to end her physical and mental suffering, gets life in prison with no chance of parole for 10 years? I don't know the exact details of Degenais' criminal record but it's safe to say that the police knew he was unstable. In the Mayerthorpe case, the shooter had a lengthy record of violent acts such as assault, threats and other crimes against humanity. Why was this man not locked up for a lengthy period? Because we have developed a "group hug" society that says "forgive and forget, we can rehabilitate you instead of punishing you".

It is only through social engineering and experimentation that policies as lax as these can come to fruition. It's about damned time we as a society said ENOUGH and started putting more money into our prison system so these types do not see the light of day for a long, long time. I, for one, would rather see my tax dollars used for prison construction and operation (to ensure the safety of the public as a whole) as opposed to being wasted on things like Tommy Douglas movies, Challenger jet flights, million dollar paintings for Parliament Hill and on and on.

When I was a kid, if I did something I shouldn't have done, I received a good swift kick in the ass. I didn't repeat those actions very often because, everytime I was tempted, I was reminded of how harsh my punishment was last time and how much more harsh it could be this time. Deterrents do work...ask anyone who was subjected to the strap in school, a licking at home, etc. I was fortunate enough to have learned my lessons when I was young and am now a proud, upstanding member of society.

Some of these people, such as Roszco and Degenais, obviously never had the parenting or guidance when they were younger and in their formative years. Should society be punished for this? No. Should they be segregated away from society for the safety of the public? Yes.

But, as long as we have bleeding heart liberals all over the place crying human rights and rehabilitation, we're going to have the Roszcos and Degenais to contend with. Taking away the rights of law abiding citizens will not solve this problem.

And, just for background sake, I do not own a gun of any sort nor do I plan to get one. I am not a "redneck, loose cannon", just your average male citizen who wants to protect his family by educating his children in what's right and what's wrong and how to stay safe. I do not wish for the state to tell me what's right and what's wrong and what I can or cannot do as a citizen. This isn't to say I'm against speed limits or the laws we have set before us. I respect our laws in their present form but I cannot for a minute support the way in which we treat convicted criminals.

If you do the crime, be prepared to do the time.

It's as simple as that.

If the Tory Gov't in Ottawa has 1200.00 for baby sitting,can cut 1% from the GSt and a billion for tainted blood etc etc why can't we get more RCMP?
You know why? Getting more police doesn't get votes and that's why. Police are expendable.

The 2 police shot were in separate cars.

ok4ua:

In case you missed it, one of the first things Harper did was to announce the funding of an additional 1200 RCMP officers and a dramtic expansion of the RCMP Training Academy...a very good start.

ok4ua...

do you know for a fact that the 2 mounties that were shot were riding in separate cars?

kind of sounds like you're grasping at straws and not completely informed of the situation. i have it on good authority from a colleague who was at the scene that evening that only one RCMP truck (yes, truck, not car) sustained gunshot damage. That would indicate to me that both wounded officers were in the same vehicle.

I hate having to pick on your small errors ok4ua, but lots of small errors add up to huge misunderstandings and it seems as though you are highly misunderstood.

I think Bruce knows where I'm coming from...

Good point about the expansion to Depot Div. Bruce. I wholeheartedly agree with what they are doing but would also dearly love to see some harsher sentences to convicted offenders, particularly the violent ones.

What's wrong with life in prison with no chance of parole for attempted murder, especially when the offender has priors for violent behaviour such as assault, sexual assault and armed robbery?

Time to get over the whole bleeding heart syndrom we have in this country. We have to stop coddling these people, thinking we can "rehabilitate" them...instead, we need to punish some of these bastards and if it doesn't send a message to those who even consider such behaviour, then prison is definitely the best place for them after they have been picked up for the crimes they commit.

I heard it from a fairly reliable source. An RCMP.

Stiffer sentences yes. Seperate prisons for Natives and non-natives. We have the Paul Dojack centre for young offenders, after you're too old for that it's the big house.1200 new positions???Does that include replacing retired police or are they in addition too?? A lot of these young officers forget what they're taught. Like the 4 in Alberta all together. An easy target. I wouldn't capture this guy. I'd say he resisted arrest and was shot. Our prisons are too full as it is. That's maybe too radical. I think our prisons should have farms and trades to teach the inmates something. I don't believe in hanging but maybe all the realy dangerous inmates should held in a special prison. My Dad always "You have to want to change to change" no one can force you. It's hard living in I'll say in a White Anglo Saxon society and a lot of criminals can't adjust. It's easier to do crimes and father numerous children,prostitute women than straighten out. You have to really want to do it. This is especially true in native society. These killings weren't done by natives. But 90% of crime is. Putting everyone in jail as the Tories want is a quick fix to make the voters feel something is being done. There will be so many inmates in jail just for drug posession of pot alone that the system will overload.That will change.Most people in prison come from poorer backgrounds. You don't see a lot of crooked white collar CEO in jail. Murderers and habitual violent either sex or other should be put away for a long time. But petty crimes is another chapter. Back in the 20's,30's and 40's you could get life in prison for making home brew. I don't think putting people in prison like Latimer is fair. That's also going to change some day. I like Hammurabi law it is what all Christian,Muslim and Jewish law is based on. Thousands of years before Monotheism(One God).

When the Mayerthorpe tragedy happened in March/05 and we lost 4 young Alberta RCMP officers I couldn't believe it. I knew one of the officers, Constable Brock Myrol and have known their family for 22 years.

I spent the next 6 months researching our wonderful Canadian justice system and wrote a book called The Last Post. All of you should read the book - the Liberal Government made an absolute mess of everything and it shocked me to find out what I researched. You can also go to the website (www.thelastpost.ca) for more info on what we're trying to accomplish - Canadians have been asked to help.

One of you inidcated that RCMP should have used the tools they have available to deal with people like Curtis Dagenais - well, the tools are not available and the RCMP are seriously understaffed with very little resources. Alberta RCMP officers have used radio equipment that was purchased USED almost 2 decades ago. Officers have been in serious situations and calling for backup when they've lost radio transmission. They travel the roads alone and have no dashboard cameras. People complain when it takes them forever to respond to a call - well, when there's only 6 officers patrolling a 613 square mile radius and 8 calls come in, which way would you like them to go?

I did my research and unless the federal government starts to take our crime problems very seriously it's going to get a lot worse before it gets better. They have the ability and money to make the necessary changes but they're not. Sure the conservative government says we're getting 1,000 new officers in Canada but I'm hard pressed to believe that when recruiting numbers are down as they are - who wants to become a police officer for $43,000/yr. At least big city officers start with a salary of $60,000/yr.

Also, just for the record - both officers that were shot in Saskatchewan were in the same vehicle. 3 clean shots went through the windshield and both officers are in dire condition with gunshot wounds to the head. It sickens me to see what's becoming of great country because the feds don't want to crack down on crime, equip our police officers with the finest equipment and build more secure prisons. We need to start getting a lot tougher on criminals in Canada.

We need to do more than just pray for these officers, we have to let the feds know that we're not taking no for an answer any longer - we deserve much better and so do the officers who have sworn to "maintain the right" and to "protect and serve".

My thoughts and prayers go out to everyone in the RCMP and their extended family.

Gloria,

Very well said. I also know the Myrol family and have known them pretty much all my life. I think I maybe met Brock when we were both just kids but I know his uncles very, very well.

I had mentioned earlier to ok4ua that I doubted his statement that the victims were in separate cars. The reason I doubted this is I know for a fact they were riding together as I was also on that night at a different location and monitored what was happening as it was happening.

From my experience, I can tell you that the radio systems in this province are decrepit; there are many, many areas near populated centres where there is NO radio or communications availability at all; and there is a real lack of human resources out there. The RCMP in this province (and across the country for that matter) have been running understaffed for close to the past 20 years and it's getting worse. Members are not being given transfers (for family reasons) to other provinces until the very last possible moment because staffing is so short, they can't afford to let them go any earlier. When divisions are fighting over members, you know the outfit is running short in a major way.

I'm interested in your book and will definitely visit the website. I'm presuming I can pick-up this book in Saskatoon at McNally & Robinson?

PS: Just goes to show that some people like ok4ua sometimes blow smoke out their ass when they, in fact, do not know the facts.

I certainly don't blame you for being pissed off...as we all are. You can most definitely pick up a copy of the book at McNally Robinson in Saskatoon.

I too know the entire Myrol family and it breaks my heart to see what they are still going through. I don't think anyone is ever really going to get over what happened.

There are many people out there who think they know what's going on but they really don't. They should do a little research and gain a little knowledge before they begin to assume this or that. Speculation is not a good thing and more often than not, does more harm than good. I feel very deeply for ever police officer in Canada - they have a very difficult job to do and deserve our utmost respect. My heart goes out to all of you and I'm on your side. Keep up the great work!

We all continue to pray for these officers and their families. My heart bleeds.

I see highway traffic officers want guns an so do border guards just like the police. How many highway traffic officers and border guards get shot every year here in Canada? How many police? If the crooks deal with border guards and highway traffic officers packing guns more guards and officers will get shot. Not many crooks get shot but a lot of police do. Let the police have the guns they need them. In England the bobbies never carried guns and guess what? They hardly ever got shot and England has 10 times the population. More guns brings on more violence. Look at the states and see how many police officers are shot every year and god knows they're one of the most policed countries in the world. Police getting shot is major crime but putting more guns in other departments I think is a mistake.

I see you mention the Shell Lake Massacre. This was committed by a man suffering severe mental illness. These latest RCMP killing was done by a sociopath who can never be cured. Hoffman who did the shell lake killings was treatable but not until years later when medications were found to help him. That's no excuse but if Hoffman's illness had been found out earlier and if meds were available and he was treated there might not have been the killngs. Sociopaths are usually untreatable. Take Collin Thatcher he thinks he did nothing wrong in killing his wife same with the Mountie killer. He beat up his sister or sister in law I'm not sure which but he also feels he did nothing wrong. They both have no concience and will always be dangerous.

The sooner the RCMP learns to deal with renegades in the communities that they police the better..BEFORE something happens !!!

Both RCMP officers that were shot in Saskatchewan died last night - something has to change and it better happen sooner than later. At this point I hope that Deganais is found dead of a self-inflicted gunshot wound when they finally catch up with him.

Considering what happened last evening and with the deaths of 2 more RCMP officers in Canada I would like to extend my deepest sympathies to everyone in Canadian law enforcement. This is not an easy time for any of you and my thoughts and prayers are with you all. It's very ironic how it only seems that we find out who these officers really are is when we've lost them. It takes a very special person to become involved in law enforcement and they have earned and deserve our utmost respect. Canada is suffering and will continue to do so unless something is done NOW.

Wow... this is another useless forum or blog or whatever for ppl who want to make a difference but do nothing except complain about it. Hate to say this ppl but you have no idea whats going, its never going to change. Shit like this is going to happen for the rest of all of our lives, no one who writes on this forum will make any sort of a difference and to think you will is ludicrous. Im no better and I know it.

I too am a current RCMP member and I could tell - before he disclosed as much - that art too was a member/ex-member as his sentiments are shared by myself and many current members.

I feel there is a systemic problem in the RCMP. Our members face some of the greatest challenges encountered by any police service. Especially in the Prairies, we deal with inadequate human resources, poor technical capabilities (radios etc), inadequate inservice training as well as inadequate tools to handle situations. I've often felt rural detachments should have full access to semi to fully automatic rifles, thermal vision capability and night vision capability. The concept of inadequate funding rings very hollow for street level members.

As for this encounter, I agree with art. Given the information available, I would have seen little benefit in engaging the subject in a pursuit down a grid road. Grid road pursuits are highly questionable even under ideal circumstances. There would have been nothing wrong with obtaining enough information to secure a criminal charge, laying the said charge and then securing a warrant for the subject. Given the circumstances and the history of the subject, serving a summons would have been logistically impracticable.

In my opinion, the RCMP as an organization have proven impotent to handle these types of situations. To my knowledge, there hasn't been a single policy and/or tactical change since the Mayerthorpe encounter and as they say...those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

Message for D R K,

You can call this blog useless or whatever you wish but I know one thing for sure.......I did more than complain. I wrote The Last Post (if you want to learn something then maybe you should read it). What have you done???? I also have had hundreds of emails and letters sent to me from Canadians across this country who have voiced their concerns. I am also delivering all of these letters and emails to parliament hill this fall so maybe you should just send me a letter or email so I can add yours to the pile. Until you've actually read the book you shouldn't tell me that I don't know what's going on because I did my research and I know exactly what's going on (and what's not). I will make sure that Canadians are heard when I get to parliament hill. There will be change and it is going to happen.

I'm sorry that you feel the way you do and I really do understand, but if I believe for one single minute that I wrote The Last Post just because it seemed like the right thing to do at the time then I have somehow failed. I have a great deal of faith in Canada and Canadians. I watched Brock Myrol grow up and all he ever wanted to do was become the Lone Ranger. I watched him sit on his rocking chair while singing Hi Ho Silver Away......I never got to see Brock get married or have children.....neither did his family. If we don't speak up then there will never be change.

Napoleon Bonaparte once said, "Ten thousand who speak make more noise than ten thousand who are silent." I know which category I fit into....do you?

And a message for Madmax....our message is getting through and it's up to Canadians to let our Federal Government know that we will not tolerate this any longer. That is what I intend to do.

Have a little faith you guys.....I know how bad it is out there. I interviewed dozens of officers and the government needs to see what the rest of us see even if I have to knock off their rose colored glassed (figure of speech). Send me a letter after you've read the book and I will take care of what needs to be done.

We owe it to each and every single law enforcement officer who has lost his life in the line of duty. There will be change....there has to be.

The sooner the RCMP stops running the force from the public relations unit, (How many personnel work there anyway?) the better off the rest of the members will be. Where is the supervision and training that will help prevent these tragedies in the future? Doing it right the first time is what works.The RCMP is first and foremost a police force, not social workers, not every ones friend, not every kids hockey coach,or drinking with the locals Other people can do that, but what other people can't do is take care of the likes of Dagenais and Roskco.And quit vetting charges.. the reader isn't the one going to court,and he wasnt there.I'm sure you'll agree,Madmax...Does this make 69, Bruce?

Dagenais just turned himself in....we have GOT to SCREAM to anyone who will listen that he get the MAXIMUM sentence for murder. Shooting cops is NOT acceptable!!!!!!!!!!!!