However, the conservatives received their money by DONATIONS NOT THEFT as the Liberals regularly do.

So let's not get our shorts in a not over this one.

No one has been ripped off since the Liberals have a monopoly on that activity.

Liberals will need to all do a Jim Jones and get a new batch of commies in there before anyone will even consider giving them another chance.

Hopefully that won't be during my lifetime.

I hope that some day someone steals money and deposits it in your bank account without your knowledge. Its ridiculous that all Liberals can continue to be tarred by Adscam. Liberal-detractors have almost acquired a racist like zeal with their own slurs like "libranos" and "lieberals".

Speaking of ethics. I think its interesting that the Conservatives can be heralded as the guardians of ethics in light of the fact that the LIBERALS imposed restictions on political donations (against their own parties interests) when CONSERVATIVE tighted those restrictions (in their own interests). Which party is really the ethical one? The one that does the right thing against its own parties interests? Or the one who uses electoral financing laws in an undemocratic fashion to vanquish its opponents?

fiberals lied - people died.

"I hope that some day someone steals money and deposits it in your bank account without your knowledge."

My God....help me stop laughing!!!!!!

KC,
It was probably just an optics illusion,but did`nt that utter piece of crap Cretien change the laws you speak of to stick it to piece of crap in waiting Martin for all those years of being a pain in the ass?

Hey KC, steal me a few millions and I'll give you my bank account numbers to deposit it in. Plus I'll get the ex president of the Royal Bank to cover it up. And when I check the balance I won't say a word.

Hey, stop abusing KC. Who of us can honestly say that we haven't at one time in our life had someone steal money and deposit it in our bank account without our knowledge!

Ahhh the usual vaucous Conservative responses -- continue to ignore the fact that 99.9% of the Liberals in the country had no idea what was going on -- yet continue to call them liars and theieves.

Somebody has their figures very wrong:

The Tyee, Feb. 1 2006:

"Another confusing aspect of the call concerned the party’s debt load, which has been the basis of much an internal stress long before a campaign that lasted for 56 days. The financial management committee contended that the Liberal party was only in debt to the tune of $4 to $5 million. This figure came as a shock to most, as according to Elections Canada the final annual filing for 2004 stated that the Liberal Party of Canada was $34,818,257.32 in debt by way of 13 bank loans. Furthermore, reviewing the published fundraising activities of the Liberal Party shows that they reported only $4,194,591.49 in fundraising for the first 3 quarters of 2005."

thetyee.ca/Views/2006/02/01/LiberalsDialE/

Sheila Copps, 6 months ago:

"According to Elections Canada, in their last annual filing, the Liberal Party of Canada was $34,818,257.32 in debt, by way of 13 bank loans."

www.torontosun.com/News/Columnists/Copps_Sheila/2005/12/24/1366613.html

Hill Times, only 5 months ago:

"Mr. Kinsella, who writes a column for The Hill Times, also acknowledged that he worked diligently to try to defeat Mr. Martin through his popular website and said the party is likely bankrupt, estimating that it's now carrying a $20-million debt."

www.thehilltimes.ca/html/index.php?display=story&full_path=/2006/january/30/libs_story/&c=1

The truth is finally coming out - 99.9% of the Liberals in the country had no idea what was going on.

I always figured them for a fuckin' clueless bunch.

KC ,see the problem is, a LOT of people DID know,and we are just at the beginning of these probes into where the money has gone...

Methinks if the ruling on campaign financing was reversed ,you would be falling all over yourself in self-congratulations at the chance to kick the Conservatives yet again while they were down.

The Conservatives have your party pinned by the throat,and they are not about to let the boot up yet..
After all the Liberals did to castigate them over the years,why should they?

kill the libs and their commie slaves.

Hi Kate, It is my first time at your blog.

I am surprised at how vacant and partisan you are. People like you make poor judgments but make great followers. You never question your team you just blindly follow and trash anyone that does not follow like you.

You should wear a brown shirt.

Ahhh -- continue to ignore the fact that 99.9% of the Liberals in the country had no idea what was going on ... and that would be the about the number politicans of the day that claim they had no idea/involvement of the stolen monies and world affairs..

KC,

So next general election when someone loosely tied to the Conservative Party says something politicly incorrect, you *won't* be jumping up and down screaming "bigots and fascists the lot of them"?

uh huh.....

And right on cue pops up AA to invoke Godwin. Well done foot soldier.

Exactly, Bill D. Cat. It was Chretien who set up that new law with one agenda - to prevent Martin from gathering money. Chretien, of course, got his money for his campaigns by stealing from the taxpayer.

By the way, how can the Liberals be 'in the black' when they still owe the taxpayer for the millions stolen by their Adscam??

KC, Who knew what was going on? The Liberals in power - those who were both elected and appointed. The average Liberal party member may not have known, but the party leaders sure knew what was going on.

And don't try the 'racist' defense. Name-calling is not a racist act. If I call someone a 'slug', that isn't a racist act. Calling Liberals 'Libranos', Lieberals, fiberals, is name-calling. Not racism. Are Liberals a designated race??? And they deserve the names they are called. Stealing from the taxpayer isn't acceptable, KC.

As to the actual post Kate put up, does no one in the Liberal party see the horrible imagery of using a pencil eraser on a financial statement? I thought it was a photoshop work, but there it is right on the Liberal website. Encroyable.

Don't like these set of numbers?

We have others.

Vote Liberal.

46 million to arrive soon, pending final approval from the Central Bank of Nigeria.

Can't believe we live in the day, when criminals are are the darling victims of the media. Man, I'm getting fed up with this crappy line of thinking. It's going to tear this country apart if it's not corrected.

Not only did the fiberals steal taxpayers monies, they did a crappy job of running this country, too busy butt kissing UN members and hobnobbing with elitists and leftists Jew hating groups.
Not to mention THEY santioned the current vein of jihadist in our midsts now...

aa, do you really want to start invoking imagery of Hitlers' Germany again? The Liberals are the ones who must have been studying Hitler.

1.) Hitler believed that if you told the people they were doing something for the children, people would be much more likely to follow. = The Liberals "think of the children" government run daycare.

2.) Hitler disarmed his population of guns. = Liberals gun registry.

3.) Was Trudeau against the War to defeat Nazi Germany? I can't remember.

4.)Liberals against the USA. USA against Nazis.

Perhaps those that holler and scream the loudest have the most to hide.

I'm sure there are more examples of similarities between the Libranos and Nazis. Come on now, everyone play along.

The 99.9% Solution.

Here is the accredited list of Librano$ who knew AdScam.

No other Liberal party members, except Judge Gomery, knew nothing.

http://www.gomery.ca/en/witnesses/index.asp

There was one good man who knew too much:

. Allan Cutler, Former Manager, Public Relations and Print Contract
Services, Public Works and Government Services Canada

Good eye A.Cooper,but if you`re tyring to use that as a "proof" of an underlying malaise of the Libranos,get your "proofs proofen",or they can`t be used to "proof" anything.... man I could sure use some new gems from "Da Little Guy".

Quite the fitting picture!

Where is the little guy from Shawinigan these days?? I miss him twisting and jerking the MSM around. Nobody could make those MSM puppets dance quite like him.

Sorry if it's a little off topic. (I'm just getting a little nostalgic I guess)

Kudos to Kate and A. Cooper. The photo DOES show an eraser! And, it's on the Liberal web site. Meaning? They are 'wiping the books'.

So, we have funds in brown paper bags left at restaurants, and funds given to various Liberal Ad Firms for Work-Not-Done for Canadians (but work done for Liberal election campaigns in Quebec)and enormous overbilling for high living expenses. And, none of this money paid back to Canadians. And, the Liberals are showing us, on their website - how they do it!

They erase the record. That's the Liberal Way.

johnboy,
You aren`t off topic at all, it`s called misdirection. Watch this hand spoonfeed the MSM while the other hand steals every last penny it possibly can, and gives it to it`s friends and it`s self.... and yeah no one could mangle a phrase like "Da Little Guy",but honestly I`m not going to miss him....unless I`m driving of course..

Do these idiot detracters not click on " full story"before they rant at Kate?

What luckyjim said. IN SPADES!!!!!!!!!!!

KC...Just checked my bank acount. This money that your talking about still isn't there.
P.S. Can you ask your liberal party when their going to deposit it?

I guess the same marketing geniuses that showed darkened silhouettes as opposed to the actual individuals for their the leadership graphics did this.It's incredible how they could not see the message they are sending with this image...HILARIOUS!
And still,robotic lefties have the lack of sense to show up here,denying the LPC's history of corruption and trying to claim the moral high ground...again,HILARIOUS!

"full story" don't you mean propaganda piece from the polito bureau with the complete new full spin? Which is the same as the old spin.

Don't like our ethics?(position,values etc...)

stick around we got more!!!

Dave,when they deposit that money,can you send a million or so over my way? need car repairs...

maybe i should hit up the Volpe youth for it...

in the black = big black hole

Next year I should do my taxes in pencil.

BTW, I find it incredlous that 99.9% on the fiberals had no clue as to what their glorious leaders were doing. As a mere civilian I often shook my head at the official crap coming out of Ottawa, especially around vote buying time. I mean election time. And unless all lieberals went into a coma every time the Auditor General came out with a report nobody could honestly say that the liberals were good stewarts of the taxpayers money. Especially when they put all those foundations beyond the AG's reach and then funneled millions into those trusts. Innocent, not bloddy likely.

The only thing that is in question here is to try and figure out if aa is bigcitylib or some other exciled troll in drag.

LOL.

Funny thread.

Kate and co. score on the Liberals AGAIN!

Here's the scoop: Who Paul? our past Leader, the Ri........ paid off the debt($).

Librano$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

“I am thrilled with these financial results,” said Party President Mike Eizenga. “I commend my fellow members of the National Executive, led by CFO Lloyd Posno, as well as our staff, for these results. I also wish to thank our past Leader, the Right Honourable Paul Martin, for his support in re-establishing the firm financial foundations of the Liberal Party of Canada,” said Eizenga.
lib.ca

KC's comment "...continue to ignore the fact that 99.9% of the Liberals in the country had no idea what was going on..."

WHAT are you talking about? I have no insider information, I'm a lowly citizen in the trenches, who until recently, got all of my info from TV, radio, and newspapers, that is, the MSM. Now I check out the blogs everyday and neale news.

I KNEW years ago that something very bad was happening under the Librano$ (sorry you don't like that name; it just happens to fit the LPC like a glove), so waddya mean 99.9 % of the party members had no idea what was going on.

If you're right, that means they'er either extremely dense and stupid or that they really did know what was going on and pretended they didn't.

Either way, you've got Librano$ and Lieberals. Wake up, KC!

Re the picture: Is that a black hand whitewashing the record? ____________ juxtaposition. (Insert one's own adjective.)

LIEBerals new BBQ recipes:

"How to cook your books and other light summer fare."

Once your books are cooked, place money in light brown envelopes. Let cool gently, with waft of Royal Mint ink rising to your nostrils. Gently pass envelope to your co-conspirator over a glass of Chateau Neuf du Pape. Feast like robber barons of days gone by!!!

I'm still waiting to find out where the two billion dollars the Liberals spent on the gun registry went.

I, for one, think that everyone should take it easy on KC. I have several close friends who have been life-long members of the Liberal Party...some going back to the time before Trudeau. They are all nice and, yes, even intellectual people who simply have a hard time reconciling themselves to what has happened to the party that they thought they knew.

In politics, people (even us conservatives) can become almost religious in our zeal for supporting a party that supports what we stand for and feel strongly about. The problem is that popular parties are constantly changing...usually much faster than our views are. They get hijacked by groups of people who get high on the power and become corrupt. Conservatives (small 'c' intended) have not been immune from this. As this happens, those in power come to believe in their own god-like powers. And who's to argue? Politicians almost never get prosecuted.

This is the Liberals time to get caught in their corruption and folks like KC (like all people who follow their team with religious-like zeal) have a hard time accepting what's been really going on with those who they have been following. So, they start making silly attempts to justify the goings-on.

I think they're generally well-meaning people. It's just difficult for people like them to look when the curtain's been pulled back and the wizard is exposed.

Is there not a means that criminal chareges could still be brought to bear against the LPC for theft of the resources of the people of Canada?

The MSM is so much on the offensive against the current PM that they have forgotten their bosom buddies in the LPC.

WE know who gave the dirty money to the Liebranos? I want to know who received it?

And what about Brison's little matter of an insider trader thing? Has this been forgotten by the MSM?

Gawd! The guy is lucky he is not Martha Stewart. He would have to buy some steel belted undies to protect himself in the big house.

What else is there to say?

How could one possibly beat this?

Without having to lift one tiny little opposition finger, the Liberal Party steps right up, to show us just how badly they have lost their way?

Right out there in full display for all to see...Liberals and books and ***erasers***!!!

Could anything be more telling!

"I hope that some day someone steals money and deposits it in your bank account without your knowledge. Its ridiculous that all Liberals can continue to be tarred by Adscam."

People are known by the company they keep.

Yuse nummers is coitins, ahl rub yiz out ,see?…ya!

well KC, as far as the 'lieberal' label I use that exclusively.

my mp is liberal and during the past session the one ending with the tory victory, I asked between 10 and 20 questions of his staff in ottawa and riding office. over the course of some year and a half.

I didnt get an answer to a single one, I didnt get an answer as to why they would answer any questions, then in december they denied I asked any questions. then when I suggested I would ask them all over again, the c**t managing the riding office threatened to call the cops.

oh really. for asking the same questions over and over again and getting no answers at all.

so, tonite, I am heading over to said constituency office to tape numerous copies of the little ditty that came out of the woodwork a ways back about pierre turdeau zooming around on a motorcycle dressed in german military uniform as the Canadian soldiers were going off to war, some not to return.

I even told them I was going to do it just to rub it in.

this being canada day weekend the document will be available for viewing by passersby for the next 3 days.

the lie the lieberals committed was to deny they ever got any questions from me despite them KNOWING godam well they did.

I reprinted some of the emails showing the date and time and email address of the lieberal mp.

lies lies lies.

also, remember cretien's famous 'red book' of election promises? I was in the process of getting my BA in poli sci and had the fun of advising the entire class that I tried to get a copy from the lieberal constituency office and was DENIED.

'oh we dont haaaaaaave any'

well just photocopy one, thats ok . . .

'oh we dont haaaaaave any'

well how the f**k do you know youre keeping your election promises if you HAVE NO RECORD OF THEM????? HMMMM??????

liars thru and thru

So let me get this straight: Chretien's people -- not the little man himself, of course, perish the thought! -- had to steal from the public purse to fund the Lieberal party because nobody would donate money to them, even though they were IN POWER, a magnet for money.

Then the vindictive bast -- ahem, concerned individual -- changed the rules to make fundraising even harder to screw Junior.

Dithers Martin Jr.'s people had to steal from the public to fund an election, because nobody would dontate to them (by then even corporations were turning their backs on the Libranos) even though the party was IN POWER, where all the money wants to go.

After losing to Harper, the party owes $38 million nationally, according to published reports.

Now OUT OF POWER, where nobody wants to donate, out of friends, having watched every party superstar back away from the leadership . . . money is pouring into Librano headquarters! Their books runneth over! Debts all paid off!

I just LOVE a good fairytale. Especially if there are trolls and other monsters in them.

And honourable knights like Gomery and Auditor-General Fraser.

I don't see how the Tories current electoral financing issue is remotely "wrong" like what the Liberals did. The Liberals knowingly stole money from the public by funneling it to friendly contracts which were illegally awarded. That shows intent to commit fraud and as we know some people have gone to jail over this. The Tories were before a committee and answered questions and put every thing on the table when asked.

The big difference here is that the Tories came right forward with every thing. At the committee they got into an argument with the NDP and Liberals over the wording of the current electoral financing law. There are lawyers and experts who right now say the law is not all that clear.

So the Tories may have made a mistake because the Liberals wrote a law that people can't actually figure out.

And there's the difference. The Tories have made no effort to hide any thing.

The Liberals are trying to divert attention from their own criminal acts. Heck Volpe got caught red handed just a few weeks ago bending the law.

No wonder this country is abandoning the Liberals and the NDP - they just can't be honest with the facts.

The Liberal "in the black" boast just might be a clever smoke and mirrors.

Read more at TDH: See June 30 posting: http://www.tdhstrategies.com/home.html

p.s., the adscam was for me the last straw.

I resolved to never vote lieberal ever again.

I told them that. I told them how a united way scandal broke 40 years ago how they spent 10,000 bucks on a lavish banquet at the end of the campaign, and how I resolved to NEVER give them a NICKEL. ever. and never have.

I told them the time I had to take a new rca television back to the store more than 10 times before the warranty ran out and how rca would not so much as acknowlege my letter of complaint. I promised them I would never buy rca ever again. that was almost 30 ago and I have kept that promise as well. and now in front of all you readers, I promise because of adscam I will never vote lieberal ever again.

not only that, I have uncovered from various sources clever ways to cheat on income tax and am doing that regularly now. and paying cash to avoid gst regularly with a pristine conscience. 1% reduction be damned. if they are going to squander MY hard earned money lining the pockets of supporters thru adscam and the mom-and-apple-pie approach to gun legislation then screw them all.

is there a Sheila Fraser fan club anywhere? the woman is amazing.

she's on my list of greatest women in public service which includes the likes of Eleanor Roosevelt.

bryceman,

you likely mean well and I applaud your interest of fairness, but gag me with a pencil eraser. People like KC have not only "had the curtain pulled back", they've been whacked across the nose with the curtain rod. One would have to be functionally illiterate, willfully oblivious (or both) to not understand the depravity that exists within the LPC. The difference this time is that people like KC rewarded his party with 100 seats *despite* the corruption, instead of making the hard choice to stand against it. He deserves no sympathy.

to the typing-challenged aa:

some may not know to which group you refer about the brown shirts.

I do, but why dont you elaborate on the supposed similarities? because those I dont see.

Yo Robert...

No fair. You can't mention "tax saving tips" and leave us hanging. Share some of the intel.

Cooper:

I'm not disputing your point at all. All I am doing is adding a "but..." to it.

When Harper snuck Emerson into his cabinet, it looked bad. It looked sneaky. Was the Liberal crap worse? Yes. Was the Stronach fiasco even more inexcusable and a transparent "buy-out"? Yes. But, it still was not a good move for the CPC because they campaigned on a platform of being straight-up. It was hard to find Conservative commentators who would criticize even the optics of it. Rather, CPC supporters (including the regulars here), defended it...using mostly the arguments I put above.

It's not a good defense to say "My people might have done something that smells...But the other people are worse because..." That's what KC said. And most people here took the bait and started doing the exact same thing.

All I am saying is that both sides of the political arena are susceptible to the instinct to defend what you have spent so much time supporting...even if coming to the defense is ill-advised. Rather than flogging the person with insults, I think that it is better to intelligently point out to these people (the supporters of the Liberals) that their loyalties are being betrayed.

Well at least we can see where some of the missing millions have gone. I find it repulsive that the Liberal Party of Canada can funnel millions of taxpayer dollars through ad agencies, computer firms and travel agents off to Swiss and Cayman Island acounts and then bring it back into the party coffers to eliminate their debt and fund their next election campaign. I know that I am making unproven allegations, but hey, who is to say this is not exactly what is taking place here. Unless of course, we cannot see Gagliano or his other mafioso henchman holding a gun to the bankers head as he erases all the red out of the Liberal account books? Voila! The entitled party is once more in the black!
Daniel

That gloriously heroic legend...
Long Live "The Saboteur"!!!

there. I did it.

plastered FIVE copies of (usual ww stuff here).collectionscanada.ca/primeministers/h4-3382-e.html

with the word 'joke' underlined and the stuff about prussian uniforms highlighted.

Im goin to check periodically to make sure they STAY up and on sunday when Staples opens Im going to take a copy and get it enlarged to 11 X 17 and tape FIVE MORE of them up for the rest of the weekend.

any spares I have left will be taped up NEXT WEEKEND. and something else the weekend after that.

jeezuz I despise these lieberals.

RobertJ a.k.a. 'Martin Luther and his 95 theses'

LOL !!!

Wow,I stopped by to check the newer comments,saw the eraser picture again and burst out laughing...
Good score Kate!

Happy Canada Day !!!! God Bless Canada

The Liberals are still heavily indebted. $30 million! The "full story" doesn't mention debt.

Why don't the Liebrano$$$ open their books? The Conservatives are doing so with theirs. Why don't the Liebrano$$$ PROVE they aren't so deeply in debt, as they claim (who believes these damned liars, anyway?)?

The Liberals are still in serious, serious financial trouble.

And "KC" makes me laugh... such ultrapartisan delusion! LOL

Why do the Liebrano$$$ continue to make utter fools of themselves? Canadians have dismissed them already and more everyday are dismissing them... they have finally awaken from their Rip Van Winkle comas and smelled the Librano crap and decided to scoop it up and toss it.

Besides, we have absolutely no lessons to take from Liebrano$$$ nor leftists on the question of calling them names. They have done the worst to us and we learned to fight back, fighting fire with fire. Now they play innocent and claim they knew nothing of what was going on.

And since they supposedly knew nothing of all the crime, corruption and greed in the Liberal regime, is it any wonder they continue to, unenlightenedly, support the Liebrano$$$?

Feckin' pathetic losers... they dug their own grave and accuse others of doing it?!

HAPPY CANADA DAY!!!! :-)

What about the $40 million the Liebrano$$$ owe the taxpayers for same amount that literally disappeared and cannot be accounted for?

When, oh, when will the Liebrano$$$ finally be summoned to appear in criminal court? What's taking so damn long?

Let's try the ba$tard$! They must not get away with what they've done!

Time to release some info on the smelly lib. deals in the past; one a week with associated press conferences should do it.
Also, it is high time that real investigations started into the Relocation Scandal etc etc etc.
(Just to show them that we haven't forgotten.)
These pirates need to be in the spotlight constantly and seen for what they are.

bryceman wrote," When Harper snuck Emerson into his cabinet, it looked bad. It looked sneaky . . . CPC supporters (including the regulars here), defended it...using mostly the arguments I put above."

Well I sure didn't defend it, nor did many other C(c)onservatives I know. I immediately wrote the PMO and chastised the PM's actions.

I don't understand your appeasement of KC and attempts to get the rest of us to go easy on this person, whose posts demonstrate a most unpleasant combination: arrogance AND a brain clearly from the shallow end of the gene pool.

sda is a robust site. If KC can't hold his/her own without handholding by types such as bryceman, this isn't the place to be.

bryceman, quit with the "equivalency" bit re the ethics of the present CPC Party and the Libranos. As I said, this is a robust site. Fairytales aren't welcome.

What's happened to all of the money put into Librano Trust Funds that can't be audited by Sheila Fraser? Has it gone to 'erase' the LPC deficit?

One more thing that needs to be investigated. When do these investigations begin?

These Librano$ are brazen:
Watch us cheat! Watch us lie! Watch us rob you blind!

Watch us use YOUR money to get ourselves out of the debt our mismanagement has resulted in! Right in front of your eyes!

But aren't we wonderful?! Aren't we great?! Aren't we the Party of enlightenment, tolerance, openness, and diversity?!

These guys are robbing us not only of $$$$$. They're robbing us of the meaning of language: When I hear enlightenment, openness, tolerance, and diversity, they've become dirty, tarnished words which mean exactly the opposite of what they are.

Money is money, but to mess with the meaning of words is to mess with truth. These Librano$ are SOMETHING ELSE. I wonder what rung in Dante's 7-storey Hell they belong on?

P.S. In the manner of Mark Steyn (who's displaying a Red Ensign at his site today) and David Warren, I wish all my fellow sda travellers, especially Kate, a very fine DOMINION Day!

NKOTB's hit the nail on the head. The Libranos have STOLEN not only Canadians' hard earned $$$, but, in the public square, most of our moral capital as well. The latter is by far the worst.

That any self-respecting Canadian with even half a brain can still support the Lieberals is beyond me. (However, I've noticed that more and more people seem to be living in virtual reality. With this comes what I call magical thinking: the ability to believe two--or more--contradictory ideas at the same time. It's high time that Canadians with such sloppy, unethical ways of thinking pinched themselves--but, hey, these are the people who don't like "not nice"--and woke up.)

Along with lookout, I also wish all of my fellow travellers in this-once-great-Dominion

A VERY HAPPY DOMINION DAY!!

GOD BLESS CANADA!

Cut get me re-write.
This magic eraser stuff looks like an ad for Mr. Clean.
We need something more believable something with more pizaz.

How about this:
We have Canada’s Centennial baby drop her bath robe as she opens the shower door.
As the mist clears we see Mr. Ray wiping the steam from his glasses.

Ms Anderson: Oh Bobby it’s you! I thought you were dead.

Mr. Ray: Pam don’t be silly.

MS Anderson: Oh it was so horrible Bobby! The Conservatives had taken over the country. Even JC has gone into hiding.

Bobby wraps Pamela in his arms and kisses her softly on her forehead.

Mr. Ray: There, there, Pam, it was just a bad dream, everything is going to be okay.

Happy Dominion Day!

adscam is all the conservatives have. no adscam=no harper. simple. this, too, shall pass.

Let talk about the Conservative scandal:
Convention fees paid by delegates are not counted as donations and the payers are not given tax receipts therefore the Conservative party doesn't report a donation and the payers don't get a tax break. The party members ACTUALLY PAY THE WHOLE SHOT. Contrast this with the fibs and the dips. The parties give out tax receipts and report the donations and the fib and dip members GET NICE TAX BREAKS. In other words the Canadian Taxpayer subsidizes the fibs and dips conventions. Isn't socialism wonderful.

Happy Dominion Day!!

Dan & New Kid...."God Bless Canada" is pretty Judao-Christian centred. Come on, people! We're supposed to be an inclusive, enlightened society here. Your posts should reflect this. They should read:

"Happy Canada Day!!!! May Allah destroy the Canadian Infidels, may Earth-Mother Shabooboo always allow us to suckle at Her divine bosom!"

Thanks, cal and Liebermann: belly laughs!

And G_d bless Canada!

Actually, no, davidson.

Don't trivialize Adscam; that's millions of dollars stolen by the Liberal Party from the taxpayer. Don't, for one second, trivialize this.

Then, there's a complete lack of policies for decades, other than the ONE Liberal agenda, of staying in power. That meant manipulating the public. Perhaps you prefer to be manipulated with endless empty propaganda rather than provided with facts.
Propaganda which includes empty rhetoric about 'how great' Canada is, and how terrible other countries are - especially the USA.

The reality is: our health care is a mess with citizens regularly having to go to the US for care, or dying from lack of care.

Our educational system is equally a mess, with our research and innovative development inadequate. Perhaps you consider funding 'research' on trivia of value; the research world ignores Canada.

We are trapped within a political infrastructure that rejects 80% of the population from key offices in government and administration. That's the result of bilingualism which has set up an isolate clique in the Ottawa-Montreal salons.
That's extremely dangerous - making it difficult to impossible for any citizen to have the equal opportunity to govern the country.

We are trapped within a system of governance where the elected portion versus the unelected is 300 to 3,000. How's that for a problematic ratio of 10 appointed to 1 elected. The Liberals almost destroyed the House, by ignoring it; Harper is restoring the electorate to power.

The Liberals decimated our military to nothing, denying the obligation of Canada to assist in the world.

The Liberal agenda, of staying in power, led to their 'Feel Good And Vote For Us' tactics. That's the utterly useless gun registry which was geared to feminists, and does nothing for safety but buys jobs-for-Liberals in the Maritimes.

The SSM - had only one agenda. Votes. In the latte cities.

And, the endless rhetoric of anti-Americanism, which was used as pure propaganda to cover up the problems in Canada.

Softwood lumber? The public was never informed that the low stumpage fees DID amount to an unfair subsidization by the Canadian gov't and therefore, the US had every right to object.

Taxation? Canadians are so heavily taxed that they cannot form an investor class. How do you feel about the fact that less than 1% of Canadians have the investment capacity to develop long term high risk investment structures in Canada? That means that Canada can only develop its economy via foreign investment. Not Canadian investment. Harper is attempting to change that.

The list goes on. The Liberals, with their clique, their agenda of power and the accumulation of personal wealth - have decimated this country. Finally, with Harper and the CPC, we are regaining control and moving gov't from being the Personal Bank of the Liberals, to being the Servant of the People.

Hey, what's my/our problem, Liebermann? LOL

Hey, God bless you!

Thanks, ET, for taking the time--how many times have you had to do it?--to set davidson straight. Total crap that he trivializes AdScam: That's the poster scandal of the Librano$ and only the tip of the iceberg, as you so succinctly point out.

What's it going to take for the Libs and Dippers to GET IT? Canadians are SICK AND TIRED of the Librano CRAP. They're robbing our kids of their future. My family and I have to pay every penny of our daughters' university education, which when our second daughter graduates in a few years time will be a whopping $120,000-plus.

That might seem like peanuts to the LibRobberBarons; it's a HUGE amount and a lot of hard work and sacrifice on my husband's and my part. On top of these expenses, we've been taxed to the max by the Librano$ and because we are not part of any victim caste and are willing to work hard every day to make a living, we've been punished by the Libs. Nice country for the past 13 years, eh?

I feel confident that PMSH and the CPC are attempting to reverse this reward-the-victim-welfare-bums, punish the hard-working-live-within-our-means Canadians trend. And the sooner the better.

Wake up, davidson. Start TODAY to live in the real world, not the down-the-Rabbit-hole-Librano fantasyland you've sadly become used to. BTW, Happy Dominion Day, and God bless you, eh?

There more then 30 mill in debt they still owe at least 2 billion for the hrdc scandal remember. they lost the money they should pay for it. They also owe for the gunregistry to tax payers. which is another scandal so I highly doubt that there out of debt they will be in Debt for at least another 2 yrs so I really don't think they are besides how can you beleive what the libranos say anymore. untill they pay off the 2 bill for hrdc and the close to 1 bill for the gunregistry then they don't deserve to govern. there losers and there getting caught.

ET, very well said, as usual, though, unfortunately, your words--make that FACTS--of wisdom are too often "pearls before [the proverbial] swine".

But keep saying them. Speaking truth to lies is its own justification and very powerful.

Thanks.

Conservative scandal? What Conservative scandal? There has been absolutely no conviction, decision...nothing...except a few blowhards forgetting innocent until proven guilty. Hell, we offer that assumption to people who want to blow up our city..why not to a Gov't trying to undue years of Liberal rot? If in fact rules were not followed, albeit not as direct as theft from taxpayers, Harper can use the same defense that 99.9% (thanks for the facts KC) had no idea what was going on.

"deposits it in your bank account without your knowledge"

I thought this was a joke. Clearly not. How do these people even put their shoes on? I am sure this type of thing happens all the time...in some little corner of someones mind. I must check my accounts today!!!!

Hey, if it took adscam to wake up Canada to realize that the ineptitude of the Liberal party has been alive and well, I will gladly take it. Those that have failed to notice the Conservatives actually moving forward...doing their job....keeping their promises...clearly shows they have been conditioned to expect nothing from their Govt. Trained well by the Liberals, these people actually think the sky is falling.

Sheila Copps to Elzinga; How to deal with 30 Million $ debt, http://www.torontosun.com/News/Columnists/Copps_Sheila/2005/12/24/1366613.html

Now THAT was a lot of fund raising !!

New Kid On The Block, I could have written your post word-for-word: our kids in univesity right now, punishing the worker/savers while rewarding laziness, the too numerous to count lost billions, all the disgust towards the liberals and the indifference of their supporters, etc.

What you said EXACTLY, thanks!

I want to echo -Lookout- and -New Kid- and wish everyone a happy Dominion Day.

A majestic name compared to McHoliday. And it speaks volumes to how Liberalism has damaged Canada.

The name of our national holiday is illegally changed and "shrug shrug" is the response Yea! it's McHoliday.

Great Post ET. Buried in the middle of this Kinsella (Chretien attack dog) rant from the NP Blog is a confirmation that the Liberals stand for nothing except getting elected and staying elected. Any value or vision they promote is temporary and only used to achieve their ultimate goal. Somehow Kinsella thinks this is good. If nothing else it certainly exposes Kinsella for the moral vacuum he is.

=
Both the Star's Diebel - plus the Globe's Ibbitson and someone else, I can't actually remember - have thumb-suckers in today's papers about how the Liberal Party of Canada is doomed, defeated, depressed, blah blah blah. I think the hed on Ibbitson's piece even says that the Grits shalt be rendered unto to dust by the wheels of history, sayeth the Lord, etcetera.

I'll tell you two guys who don't agree with that gloomy prognosis: Stephen Harper and, um, me. Here's why:

The Liberal Party's obituary has been written so many times, I've wallpapered the rumpus room with the results. Twice. When you are in Opposition, there's always Nervous Nellies who will say you're doomed. As I recall, the aforementioned S. Harper was being measured for a political pine box as recently as November 2005. By the same Nervous Nellies, and in his own party, too. Yawn.
Like it or no, the Liberal Party of Canada is the most successful political machine in Western democracy. Why do you think Mr. Harper has imposed Stalinist communications discipline on his team in Ottawa? Because he carefully studied the successful Liberal eras (ie. not the Martin blip), and he knows that the Lib's discipline helps them to win elections. Imitation is flattery, etc.
Ask any smart conservative, on either side of the border: there is always more "gettable" Liberal/Democratic vote. That's a lesson that Tories/Republicans have learned the hard way, too many times. For instance: in the 2006 Canadian federal race - which saw Harper run a picture-perfect campaign, and Martin offer up a shambling, chaotic mess - the Conservatives could still eke out only a narrow minority. That tells me (and Stephen H., who I still like and admire, by the way) that Canadians tend to lean more liberal than conservative. It's in their DNA. And it's why conservatives have to work harder at getting out their vote.

Conservatives' ideology is their ideology: tax cuts, law and order, and so on. That kind of stuff. The Liberal ideology is, to be blunt, winning. Grits like to win, and they've had a lot of practice at winning. They're good at it. Right now, they're miserable, sure, because they LOST. But there's no better motivator for a Liberal than a loss. It gets them to where they most like to be: with their foot on a Conservative or New Democrat windpipe, watching them gasp for air until Election Day. That's when Liberals are happiest. It makes them smile.

The Martin period was an aberration - but, ultimately, seasonal and arguably necessary. Like cicadas, Liberals turn every twenty years or so to political disasters (eg. Turner, Martin), get reminded why out-of-touch, out-of-work business executives make lousy leaders, and then get back to finding real Liberals. It'll happen in another twenty years, just you watch. In the interim, they'll be okay.
So do all of these nice words mean this former Chretien aide hankers for the rough-and-tumble of federal politics again? Let's put it this way: a lot of former Liberals will remain former Liberals until the Martinite thugs are exiled to Serbia or, ideally, Mars.

And that, at the end, is why Stephen Harper is probably most optimistic: the Martinite elements in the Liberal Party, whose names are interchangeable with "losing," are still around. They haven't learned their lesson, yet. Until they do, Stephen Harper is pretty safe. It's not a permanent condition, but it'll sure feel like that for a lot of Liberals for the next while.

You're welcome.

lookout...

What are you trying to accomplish. And why the attack?

I never said that there was an ethical "equivalency" between the Liberals and Conservatives. You won't see any reference to equality between the two anywhere in any of the posts I've ever made. The Conservatives are clearly superior. My point was only that no one has a magic shield that blocks out bad acts or the desire to defend bad judgements simply because of the party they belong to.

Furthermore, I am not "appeasing" or holding the hand of anyone (KC included). I was simply saying that their weak arguments can be defeated with intelligent discussion rather than name-calling.

You will never get anyone to get on board with your point of view if you start off by insulting them. You'll just force them to become deeper entrenched in their views. Conservatives would not be on their way to a majority if they were doing nothing but hurling insults...You have to be able to demonstrate (intelligently) that your ideas are the superior.

I have never insulted or made a personal attack on anyone. I think that the people here are more intelligent than the average knee-jerk liberal. All I was trying to point out is that the superior ideas can be better conveyed than by throwing insults.

Am I to understand that you are trying to tell me I am not welcome here because of that?

KC
I, too hope that someday someone steals money and puts it in my bank account! Oh, my side hurts! Is there anyone, ANYONE out there that wouldn't notice an extra milion or so in their accounts, and that's just a million, only a fraction of what the liberals stole!!

ward, I disagree with your analysis. The Liberal party ideology is NOT in the DNA of Canadians. You are ignoring context and history, by trying to make the claim that an ideology is a biological property.

What is the Liberal ideology anyway? It is socialist and big government bureaucracy. This means a centralized gov't, top-down communication lines, centralized ideology.

It means a focus on creating a population who are all, more or less, middle-middle class. There is no investor class which means that Canada must rely on foreign investors to develop its big industrial infrastructures.

Creating this middle middle class means high taxation; it means numerous centrally controlled make-work projects in Quebec and the Maritimes. This has actually disabled both Quebec and the Maritimes, making them economically dependent.

It has meant centralized everything, from health care to travel. No competition is permitted in a socialist state. This increases costs as it increases bureaucracies and union-dependent jobs. Unions, as we know, increase costs and decrease efficiency, for union-jobs are not about doing a job well, but about being paid well.

How can such a costly economy operate? In other parts of the world, a socialist economy, with the wastes involved in centralization and an enormous bureaucracy would have collapsed long ago.
The reason is, the USA.
Canada hasn't had to compete for customers on the world stage. It simply ships everything to the USA. 85% of our exports go to one country; there is no other country in the world so uncompetitive and so dependent. And, we get very angry if the US doesn't purchase our goods. We feel it is Our Right and Their Duty to do so.
So, our economy has done quite well, because we have a purchaser, with 'no sweat' to us.

And, we've reduced many other costs. Military? Reduced to zilch; the US will protect democracy for us. Research and development? Equally reduced, and besides, our focus is on the humanities and social sciences and we can conclude any sophistry we want in those areas. Innovation comes from other countries, such as the US, and we simply copy the drugs and sell them back, without our having to burden ourselves with funding ten years of research.

Furthermore, Canadians are brainwashed, into the vapid falsity of multiculturalism, which sets up Canada as a set of hotel suites; we are disempowered from full participation in government by the requirements of bilingualism.

And, you've forgotten history. A central gov't is just fine for a population of about 11 million primarily located in the East. You are ignoring that Canada is different now. The population has increased to 33 million, and the West has opened up. It is now the economic and intellectual powerhouse of Canada. Centralism, which actually means Ontario-Quebec socialism and taxing everyone to the LCD won't work anymore. It's over.

The notion of big government, with the government doing everything for you (a Quebec ideal) won't work anymore. Canada has to develop its own investor class and stop relying on other countries and other individuals to provide the funds and the brains to develop our industries. That means empowering the local areas and promoting individualism; that means decentralizlation; less taxes, more power to local areas. More freedom of speech, less political correctness, more debate and analysis. Liberals don't like debate; you are either Liberal or you are 'unCanadian'. Remember their ads?

So, the Liberal ideology is ONE GENERATION out of date. It hasn't caught up to reality. And, with their most recent rant on anti-Americanism, they are showing us that they still live within their out-of-date empty rhetoric.

Personally, I like to debate about policy and ideas.

Although the liberal adscam was inexcusable, it truly does detract from any debate around how we can change this country to make it better. That is what I think I detest about this the most.

Bandying around insults seems to be the fad of the day. Perhaps what goes on in the House is truly "representative" of the people.

Sad to think about.

Cheers!

Happy Canada Day.
(sigh)

Leto

I have to take exception to KC's claim that the Liberals imposed restictions on political donations against their own party's interests. Nonsense. They received 5,252,031 votes in the election before Chrétien changed the rules. On that basis, and with each vote worth $1.75, the Liberal Party stood to receive nearly $9.2 million a year, more than enough for the party's needs. Better yet, the new rules would give the PCs $2.75 million, enough to keep them viable and to perpetuate the PC/CA split. It wasn't about Chrétien fixing Martin - Chrétien would not hurt his party to get even with Martin. And how could he have expected that the Conservatives would unite and that the Lberal vote would dive from 40.8% in 2000 to 30.2% in 2006, netting far less from Elections Canada?

The Liberal claim to have retired their DEFICIT is a clever smoke-and-mirrors. Elections Canada reported the party DEBT at nearly $35 million as of 31 December 2004 (most of which debt was accumulated in the last few weeks of the year, long after the 2004 election). In 2005, the Liberal Party raised $8,747,200, most of which would have gone for party operations, debt interest and the Adscam payback. They would have received some $18 million from Elections Canada for the 2004 elections expenses (60%) and the annual $1.75 (adjusted for inflation) per vote. But this large windfall would presumably have been applied to the debt and to the 2005-6 election campaign. Really worryingly for the Liberals, they received just $1,332,366 in the first quarter of 2006, a quarter that included an election, which should normally send donations soaring (the Conservatives received $5,578,234, 4.2 times as much). Leadership and convention contributions and costs are going to narrow the donation base even further. The Liberals relied disproportionately on major donors, and will be much worse hit by the new accountability legislation. In the fourth quarter of 2005, they had 188 donors who gave $5,000-$5,200; the Tories had only 24. Ironically, the Liberals like to pride themselves on being the party of the people, but rely on the wealthy, whereas the Conservatives typically have four to six times as many donors, giving smaller sums. Amazingly, when the dire data on Liberal finances were coming out last year, one Liberal MP actually claimed that the Tories raised more because they are the party of big money. Aren't MPs supposed to have a better grasp of things political than the rest of us?

Talking about self-delsusion, I can't pass up KC's remark that Conservative responses continue to ignore the fact that 99.9% of the Liberals in the country had no idea what was going on. I think 99.9% of Germans in 1945 would have claimed not to know about the death camps. But, of course, nobody buys that denial of responsibility.

Typical liberano there leto, lets change the subject. How does that go? "Nothing to see here, move along, move along." OK if you dont want to talk about adscam how about the relocation program? or maybe the lets rip off all the real working Canadians and send there money to some dictator in a 3rd world country and call it a ecology protocal, oops sorry the kyoto accord. Dont forget we dont even have a clue as to how much strong and company were going to skim off the top in that fiasco.

I could go on but it DOMINION DAY and I want to get on my bike and ride. GOD BLESS CANADA!

ET:

Wow! That's a pretty succinct and bang-on economic analysis of the way things are versus the way things should be.

There is one thing that I have always wondered though...If it weren't for Gomery and the fact that he pretty much started out having to deal with a weakened party and a minority government...do you think that Paul Martin would have actually governed a lot more like Stephen Harper does today?

I ask this because, until he became Prime Minister, I always felt that Martin was essentially, a conservative running under the Liberal flag simply because of family tradition and geo-politics. Back before the Liberals were in power, Martin seemed to be behind Mulroney's policies (Meech Lake and all) and, of course, against the Trudeau-Chretien establishment. As finance minister, he was fiscally conservative to a level that I don't think had been seen in at least the last 50 years in this country.

We know that he was a strong believer in Missile Defence. He was on record up until at least 1999 being against redefining marriage. And, in his personal life, he was a big-business entrepreneur and the best representative we could have had to Wall Street.

Then, he becomes PM and BOOOM...Adscam blows up in his face (much his own fault of course) and everything changes. The dramatic veer to the left. The aggressive leftist posturing on every topic. And, of course, the stealing of plays from the Chretien play-book on US-bashing. Decisiveness was lost and Dithers was born. The end result, of course was that respect in leadership abilities went right out the window.

Don't get me wrong...I am thrilled with Harper and the way the Conservatives are doing business and today (knowing what we now know about Harper's leadership skills) I wouldn't have it any other way. I'm just asking your opinion (speculation) on what Martin would have been like if he had have had a majority and no scandal.

"Talking about self-delsusion, I can't pass up KC's remark that Conservative responses continue to ignore the fact that 99.9% of the Liberals in the country had no idea what was going on. I think 99.9% of Germans in 1945 would have claimed not to know about the death camps. But, of course, nobody buys that denial of responsibility."

Anyone comparing Canadian politics to the atrocities of the concentrations camps (even for statistical refernce)should be congratulated for their complete and utter lack of sensibility.

Enough with the comparisons to Hitler and the Brownshirts! To sully our political debate with this trash is insulting and embarassing to all.

Leto

Happy Canada Day to all my fellow Canadians!

( and thanks for the well wishes of others above )

We have sun, for now at least! lol
Enjoy!

Softwood Deal Signed Today.

[Conservative] International Trade Minister David Emerson and United States Trade Representative Susan Schwab will initial the document today in Geneva, Switzerland.

CanWest News Service
Published: Saturday, July 01, 2006

bryceman, I do find myself agreeing with your summary of Martin, those were my feelings previously.

I started becoming disenchanted with Martin about five years ago but would have likely still voted for him, three years ago I knew he would never get my vote, he was starting to show his weakness as a potential PM.

I really believe that Harper needed to lose in 2004 to get experience and do some learning, it served him well. I believe Harper is alot smarter than Martin and he would have found a way to exploit this and make his move.

Can't prove it but I think that Adscam only hastened the inevitable for Martin's demise as leader, would have happened anyways. Too much rot in those close to him that would have started stinking up the place sooner or later.

Leto: though you seem like a "nice" person, in that you haven't trashed anyone at a blog whose majority viewpoints you obviously take some exception to, I find your contribution at 1:12 p.m. to be completely vacuuous.

What, exactly, is your point?

You say "personally [redundant: obviously it's no one else's opinion, so how could it be anything but "personal"?] I like to debate about policy and ideas," and then proceed to do neither. You offer no policy debates or debates about ideas, just platitudes.

So, again, what, exactly, is your point?

HAPPY DOMINION DAY, ANYWAY!!

bryceman, your latest post is disingenuous.

1) You say you want "intelligent discussion rather than name-calling". So what's stopping you from responding intelligently to the actual points I made--not ones I didn't--in your post addressed to me?

2) You deny suggesting--look up "inference" if you don't know the meaning--"equivalency" between the behaviour of the CPC and the LPC. Poppycock.

It's altogether your right to posit equivalency. (And, in some cases, there is.) I just happen to think, in this instance, that you're dead wrong. And you're being dishonest to say you didn't suggest equivalency.

Giving support to KC, here are only a few of your own words: "In politics, people (even us conservatives) can become almost religious in our zeal . . . Conservatives (small 'c' intended) have not been immune from this. As this happens, those in power come to believe in their own god-like powers. And who's to argue?" Well, I'm to argue when equivalency is so clearly beside the unintelligent--that's an adjective, not a name--point KC made and you feel inclined, for some unfathomable reason, to defend. (Is KC perhaps a friend or relative of yours?)

3) What name calling? There's been a lot of disagreement with KC. People have used pejorative adjectives: But, FYI, many of the adjectives are intelligenly applied to KC's frivolous posting. Please get your facts straight, a prerequisite, bryceman, for the "intelligent discussion" you claim to value.

4) You say, "I have never insulted or made a personal attack on anyone." Then you proceed to insult me by saying, with absolutely no grounds, "Am I to understand that you are trying to tell me I am not welcome here . . .?"

As you seem to be a fairly literal type, the short and unequivocal answer to your uncharitable and below-the-belt- question is, "No!"

For a person who supposes himself to be as intelligent, reasonable, and principled as you apparently do--vs a person like me (I've made an inference)--your latest post is a great disappointment.

Hi Anne:

"Can't prove it but I think that Adscam only hastened the inevitable for Martin's demise as leader, would have happened anyways".

I think you're probably right on that point.

I'm not proud to admit it. But, just before the 2004 election, I was not keen on Harper's ability to be a leader. Sure, I thought that he had great ideas and policies and that he was a lot smarter than anyone else on the block. I was just concerned that he lacked the charisma to tell it like it is and survive politically. I voted Conservative. But, deep inside I was thinking, "He'll never be PM. But, at least Martin is conservative enough for now."

I AM proud to admit that I was wrong and Harper has (and continues to) pleasantly surprise me. I just can't help but wonder if Martin would have been so Ditherly (I know...not a word) and leftist if he could have held on to a majority in 2004.

bryceman, in my 2:02 posting, I meant your latest post in relation TO ME, as I see you posted while I was tapping out my response.

My reaction to your response to ET is a 180: I altogether agree with you here.

Leto, I believe you're way off base in your critique of tonyinottawa. His analogy was quite apt. The parallel was who knew and who didn't. (Not the gravity of what was done.)

I think your wondering about Martin, bryceman, is entirely without merit. I say that not to be critical or nasty but to point out that a wo/man's character is exactly revealed in hardship not when things are going their way.

If Martin became "Mr. Dithers" as the result of the LPC forming a minority government, his character was precisely revealed when the going got tough. For the undiscerning, with a majority government Martin may have been able to keep up a charade of being decisive and/or "conservative enough," but for many of us who had had our fingers on the pulse of the LPC for a long time, the jig was up long before the Librano$ formed a minority government.

"When the going gets tough, the tough get going."

When the going got tough, Paul Martin and the LPC withered and dithered. 'Good thing they're history.

In reply to bryceman, my view of Martin is that he wouldn't, with a majority, have 'been a Harper'. He would have been exactly what he was, dithering and dependent on the opinion of others. Remember, Harper has a minority and yet, he has views, he presents them, explains them, grounds them in facts, and gets things done.

Martin didn't have any views and what he presented was bluster, empty verbiage - and lies. I object to his telling us that SSM was a 'charter right'. It isn't; marriage is a decision of the legislature and has nothing to do with the Charter.
I object to his bluster about softwood lumber, to his anti-Americanism, to his embarassing queries of 'Do you Love Canada?' and so on. I object to the fact that he never, ever, answered a question in the House. Admittedly, neither did any other Liberal.

If he was a believer in BMD, then he should have maintained that belief; to change and reject them, meant that his first agreement with it, was as dependent on others, as his rejection of BMD. Same with marriage. As for his business career, wasn't that a hand-up from the Desmarais family?

I simply can't believe that someone who is viewed as decisive, becomes indecisive, overnight. I fully agree with new kid. A majority might have hidden his real character, but, that character is dependent and weak.

Happy Dominion Day. I'm flying the Red Ensign in my front yard now. God save the Queen.

things may not be as they seem in conservative canada afterall.....
CPoC did not declare the $2 million transfer to itself via their national convention (which has been called an Elections Act violation by Elections Canada)

http://www.cjob.com/news/index.aspx?dir=national&src=ext&rem=./n062982A.xml

2. CPoC members were receiving political tax receipts for things that they received a commercial benefit from (could be considered tax fraud)

http://somenamedia.blogspot.com/2006/06/they-knew-and-wanted-more.html

3. CPoC is late in filing its reports (can be de-listed as a political party for this)

*Update* from MWW -- I've reviewed the Elections Canada act. Today is in fact the deadline for the CPOC to hand in it's financials for the 2005 fiscal year. So this may not be a big deal.. (except of course the lie that the Baird's office made when they claimed EC had checked the convention's books already)

http://somenamedia.blogspot.com/2006/06/cjob-news-pretty-clear-that-cpoc.html

4. Allegations of over-spending during the election have surfaced.

http://politicsnpoetry.wordpress.com/2006/06/28/round-up-cheatin-tories/

5. Allegations of creating a fake news outlet and unlabelled material during the election remain unresolved.

http://bestandbetter.blogspot.com/2006/01/alleged-conservative-blogsphere-scheme.html

posted by Walks With Coffee at 9:51 AM | 0 comments links to this post

all is not well in harper's canada....
CPoC did not declare the $2 million transfer to itself via their national convention (which has been called an Elections Act violation by Elections Canada)

http://www.cjob.com/news/index.aspx?dir=national&src=ext&rem=./n062982A.xml

2. CPoC members were receiving political tax receipts for things that they received a commercial benefit from (could be considered tax fraud)

http://somenamedia.blogspot.com/2006/06/they-knew-and-wanted-more.html

3. CPoC is late in filing its reports (can be de-listed as a political party for this)

*Update* from MWW -- I've reviewed the Elections Canada act. Today is in fact the deadline for the CPOC to hand in it's financials for the 2005 fiscal year. So this may not be a big deal.. (except of course the lie that the Baird's office made when they claimed EC had checked the convention's books already)

http://somenamedia.blogspot.com/2006/06/cjob-news-pretty-clear-that-cpoc.html

4. Allegations of over-spending during the election have surfaced.

http://politicsnpoetry.wordpress.com/2006/06/28/round-up-cheatin-tories/

5. Allegations of creating a fake news outlet and unlabelled material during the election remain unresolved.

http://bestandbetter.blogspot.com/2006/01/alleged-conservative-blogsphere-scheme.html

posted by Walks With Coffee at 9:51 AM | 0 comments links to this post

If the Liberals are out of debt then the population has been robbed to do it.

lookout:

I am not going to continue arguing how many angels can dance on the head of a pin with you. I am not sure what is motivating your attacks. But, on the chance that you really think there is a reason to have a beef with me. I will address your points this one last time:

1) Why didn't I intelligently address the points in your previous post?
Answer: You didn't make any. In your post, you did the following:
- You used the Chamberlain associated word "appeasement" to describe my suggestion that we should attempt to understand that people like KC are coming from a well-meaning starting point - and are just lashing out. KC is not a Hitler to be appeased. KC is like a child lashing out when they discover that all that they believe in is a sham. Hitler had to be put down. A disenfranchised child does not.

- You contended that you did not support the way the CPC handled the Emerson thing. Good for you. I have no response except that maybe I should have said "Most CPC supporters" instead of simply "CPC supporters". But regardless, when you say that you as an individual did something that goes against what I said...there is nothing for me to say except to say I should have been more careful to point out "not all CPC supporters". (But who's being a "literal-type" now).

- Lines like "handholding by types such as bryceman, this isn't the place to be." and "Fairytales aren't welcome." I don't know what to say. How would you have me respond intelligently to that?

2) You say I suggest "equivalency" of ethics. I tell you that that is not what I meant at all. You claim ("Poppycock") it was inferred. What can I say? How can I prove my intent except to say that, in both of my posts on the subject, I said that no one is immune and anyone can adopt religious-like zeal. I stand behind what I said. You can try to tell me how that has a double-meaning. But, I can't agree because I know how I feel: The CPC is superior (I already made that clear too), and the LPC is corrupt and void of ideas completely. But, after 10 or 15 years of power, anyone can become corrupt. And if that happens, some of the people who were there supporting the now-corrupted in the beginning will be coming to their defense out of a misplaced feeling of loyalty. That is what I believe KC is doing. I am not suggesting an equivalency of ethics. I am suggesting an equal susceptibility among all humans to lose sight of idealogy and be corrupted by power. Party membership does not determine this.

3) You say "What name calling?". I think you're splitting hairs. While you yourself have not called me a name...it happens in politcal debates more often than it should (including here). Also note that I was talking about how resorting to name-calling and insults is a bad argument tactic. It was not an accusation. However, here are some things you have said in this very thread...

"arrogance AND a brain clearly from the shallow end of the gene pool"

"handholding by types such as bryceman, this isn't the place to be."

"Fairytales aren't welcome."

"your latest post is disingenuous"

"look up "inference" if you don't know the meaning"

"so clearly beside the unintelligent"

These may not be name calling...but, they are nevertheless insults. For me, your suggestion that I look up "inference" is the funniest one because I could reply with the exact same suggestion to answer your question about name calling.

4) You claim that when I said "Am I to understand that you are trying to tell me I am not welcome here . . .?" is an insult to you. I can't fathom how you get an insult out of that. You "inferred" that I wasn't welcome from your lines where you said that this wasn't "the place to be" and "Fairytales aren't welcome". Besides, contrasted against the lines you have used that I have listed here, I don't see how you can say that my question is an insult. This is part of the reason that I am now beginning to think you are just playing with me and are not serious.

IMPORTANT NOTE:

Strip away politics and everything else and there are two types of people in this world: ignorant and intelligent. There are both types in every group (even political ones). And no matter where people's loyalties may lie, when their butts are on the line, people will follow intelligence every single time. The trick is that if you want your conservative viewpoint to survive without being misconstrued, you have to speak to people of opposing viewpoints with respect and dignity.

I lived in Alberta for 5 years and now I live in Quebec. I often meet people who have the Liberal propagandized view of "Alberta is just lucky because they have all of that oil." or "Western Canadians are un-Canadian" or "Stephen Harper is scary". I would guess that I have engaged a couple of dozen people here in political conversations. I do not tell them that their brains are from the shallow end of the gene pool. I don't even accuse them of being brain-washed. I ask them what is important to them and why they think that the Liberals are better or the Conservatives are worse. Then, I talk to them about facts, ideas, and the progress of things. Now I have probably only converted 3 people who were Liberals-because-of-tradition. But, I feel strongly that all of them have come away from the discussion at least willing to admit that "Albertans are not so bad" and "Harper is not so scary".

lookout: The Liberals were able to hold onto power for so long (and even hold as many seats as they have now) because they keep painting people like us who support conservative principles as "scary" or "intolerant".

KC is not a friend or relative. I have never spoken of or to him/her before this thread. But, whenever I see a Liberal-sympathizer come forward to try to defend the indefensible, I don't feel anger or that this is a person who deserves no mercy. I say, here is an opportunity to show this person that we are not scary...that we understand that they are good people...and that we can make a persuasive argument without insults or "inferred" insults of any kind.

I believe that when people give in to the primitive instinct and lash out at people like KC we are not helping them, ourselves or our cause.

I am shocked that my attempting to make this clear has gotten such a response. I hope that this long post is a good enough explanation for you. If it is not, I am sorry. I have made myself as clear as I can. Any further attempts to bait me (if that's what they are - and they may not be) will not be answered.

Thanks for making me think.

NKOTB and ET:

Points taken. I especially agree with New Kid's assertion that the personality really comes out when the person is under pressure.

All I would add is that I think all politicians, at the very least, temper their strongly held beliefs if the polls tell them they should.

What's that old saying? In politics, it never matters what the truth is - It only matters what people believe.

Here's hoping Harper can continue to make people believe in the truth.

You're welcome, bryceman. It seems to me that the purpose of posting different opinions is, indeed, to make us think and to clarify our thinking. That's a good thing I believe we both agree on.

However, we part company on the form we seem to find acceptable. We're talking serious, literally life and death issues here. I believe that pithy comments, intelligently spoken, are well within the parametres of accepatable discourse. Apparently, you don't. And when the discourse veers from the apparently antiseptic, Polyanna type thrusts and parries you seem to expect, you then abandon the argument and "shoot the messenger". (That's not meant literally.) This isn't too helpful for getting to the heart of the matter.

Although I genuinely appreciate that you took the time and considerable effort to respond--you seem to be a person of some goodwill--I'm sorry to say that I disagree with much of your reasoning.

For example, my "shallow end of the gene pool" comment was made about KC, not you. (You needn't worry: It's highly unlikely that I'd say that to KC in person. A blog thread has a different etiquette set than person to person discourse.)

Also, I didn't say that you are unwelcome. It's thin skinned, poorly conceived arguments that are unwelcome: E.g., Chamberlain's astonishing appearance in your analysis of my remarks, because I used the word "appeasement", is truly preposterous. Then you went on to suggest that I was comparing KC to Hitler. Yikes!!

If I'd suggested any such thing, it would be reasonable to consider me "scary" and "intolerant". I made no such suggestion. I'm sorry if this will upset you, but I don't find this astonishingly off-base argument of yours at all welcome--not so much because it insulted me (it did), but because it's altogether untrue and misrepresents my thinking altogether.

It seems, politically, that we have a fair amount in common. That's good. All the best for a Happy Dominion Day.

lookout:

In my experience, 95% of the time conflicts are not the result of good versus evil. They result from the fact that the receiver did not properly "get" what the sender thought they were transmitting or vice-versa.

Debating in writing is difficult because we can't rely on intonation and body-language.

It's all cool.

Have a good long-weekend.

Oh dear. bryceman, I just read your latest political comment. We certainly don't agree on this one.

You wrote, "All I would add is that I think all politicians, at the very least, temper their strongly held beliefs if the polls tell them they should.

"What's that old saying? In politics, it never matters what the truth is - It only matters what people believe."

What you seem to be advocating here is sheer expediency. What if the polls showed that Canadians approved of running red lights? (Where I live, this already seems to be the case!) Are you really serious that politicians who have "strongly held beliefs" about this should abandon their principles and vote to change the law?

That's why I particularly like PMSH and his caucus: Unlike the Librano$, they seem to actually HAVE principles they're willing to stand by. (If Canadians don't like the results, they can vote them out.)

This is not a scary proposition. It's called LEADERSHIP. And BTW, truth does matter. True leaders know it and true leaders act on it.

bryceman, you have a good long weekend too.

By the way, the black hand and the eraser have disappeared from the Liberal website.

I'll agree with both lookout and bryceman on 'political expediency', strange as it seems. Yes, I strongly support Harper and his clear sense of principles, his commitment to Canada and the well-being of Canadians rather than power, his clear idea of that well-being, as expressed in his commitment to decentralization, more financial and decision-power to individuals and so on.

But, I think that he's had to 'temper', not his ideology but the pace of change. Canadians have been thoroughly and completely manipulated and brainwashed into socialism since the Trudeau era of errors.

Realizing that socialism doesn't work, that a centralized gov't is out of date, that a nanny-state infrastructure is horrendously expensive and inefficient and so on ..can't be done overnight. Harper, rather than attempting to change people's whole ideology rapidly, is working pragmatically, in what I call a 'bricoleur' style, of piecemeal, very practical changes, that are readily accepted, understandable and that work within a new decentralized infrastructure.

I don't think that Harper changed his ideology, but, he possibly 'tempered' his tactics of changing Canada. Rather than wholesale change, which would have been too much for a brainwashed population to deal with, he is doing it small step by step. A 'bricolage' tactic. And it's working.

What is amazing is how much he has accomplished in these few months in office. Incredible. More power to him, and a Happy Dominion Day to all.

lookout:

Classic case of what I was referring to.

No, I don't believe in sheer expediency and I don't advocate people abandoning their principles in favour of the polls.

My comment should have been, "It seems that, in the world of politics, people live by the addage 'It never matters what the truth is - It only matters what people believe.'

Harper and company are more true to their beliefs than the "Libranos". But, even they are a little restrained.

Example: It would be easy for you or I to stand up and say, "Hey Canadians! Wake-up! You precious health-care system is killing us all in both real terms and economic ones. And, besides, since when is it patriotic for a nation to rally around the way that a pap-smear is paid for?"

But, while I think most Conservative politicians (and even some Blue-Liberals) might agree on this. None will come out and say it. I don't blame them. It would be political suicide to be that direct...even if it is the truth.

That's all I meant.

Thanks ET...you said it better than I.

bryceman,

It was not my intention to make you a lightning rod of appeasement. For that I apologize.

However, I have insulted no one. Being blunt, especially in political discussion, is not an insult. I'm not here to argue "my guy is better than your guy". We all know what power does to the best of us, and this current government will last exactly the amount of time that they adhere to what got them elected--and I say this as an avowed (c)onservative. I do wonder if your "intellectual" Liberal friends can make the same guarantee? They've had two chances to demand change (both within the system and within their own party), and have thus far resisted them.

The same power brokers and inside players within the LPC are gearing up for run number three. I'm going to keep that curtain rod well within reach.

I think that PMSH is BRILLIANT!

Like you say, ET, he's coming at change from a very pragmatic, what will work, perspective. He's 'feeding' Canadians the way you'd feed someone who's been starved for a long time: spoonful by spoonful, not a whole dinner, because the starving person couldn't handle a plateful of food.

I'm clear that he would do things differently, as you say bryceman, if he had a majority and if Canadians had not been spoonfed socialism all these years and therefore are brainwashed. As it is, he's making changes at a pace that the Canadian electorate can tolerate.

His is a fine balancing act and I think he's showing Canadians what an incredible high wire act he is. Because his ego doesn't get in the way, he can handle ridicule and the MSM and the other parties not understanding--and not wanting to understand--what he and his party are about.

To use another analogy, I think he'd make a great hunter. He can sit quietly, for ages, watching, listening, making calculations about what he's going after, without rustling the grass. I realize that this analogy breaks down somewhat when you consider that he has to appear in the House of Commons every day, but he doesn't call attention to himself. He answers questions when he needs to, he answers them succinctly and thoroughly and then "gets out."

He's a brilliant tactician, and I continue to marvel, as ET says, at how much he has accomplished in these few months. I agree with lookout, as well, that PMSH "seem to actually HAVE principles they're willing to stand by" and that Stephen Harper is a LEADER. Canada hasn't seen a real leader in a long time: We should all take a GOOD LOOK and make a few notes...

Whoops, my latest post should have read

...PMSH and the CPC "seem to actually HAVE principles they're willing to stand by" and that Stephen Harper is a LEADER.

:-)

ET and bryceman, I entirely understand--and SUPPORT--the icrementalism you're talking about.

It's been said (I think!) that "Politics is the art of the possible". Politicians, especially ones in a minority position, can't fundamentally change things overnight--or even in the long run! But they can nudge society in the right direction.

None of us can expect even the most respected politician to work miracles. And government is only one--and often the least efficient--agent of change in a society.

That said, PMSH and his fine band of men and women have made an incredible difference to the political discourse and reality of this country. Yes, indeed, a very happy Dominion Day to all of us:-)

You too, NKOTB!

Hi Cooper:

It's all cool. I wasn't that razzled. In the end, I was just trying to say that if we have better ideas and the brains to express those ideas, let's do it better than the lefties. All of a sudden, it felt like I was getting jumped on as if I was saying "Let's all have one big love-in with the (political) enemy."

My "intellectual" Liberal friends. Well, I should first make a point of saying that there are three of them...the youngest is 50-something. The eldest is in his late 60's. I am thirty-something :).

No...they can't make the same guarantee. That's the perplexing point for them. They have seen the world and most of this country and they can each intellectually discuss the issues.

When I argue politics with them, I actually feel sorry for them. In their minds (which I am afraid are all trapped back in the 50's/60's), the Liberal Party is the party of tolerance. Where you can stand up at a policy convention or an MP can stand up in a cabinet meeting and disagree with the main group with no fear of reprisals. To them, the LPC is the party of the center. As long as you are willing to be moderate in your execution, you can have idealistic slants in either direction.

Of course, the rest of us know that they would have to have been smoking banana-peels to really think that it is that way today. They know it. One of them last week grudgingly admitted that the "intolerant" word was being used too much by their rank-and-file members.

All of us Conservative supporters know how we feel today...and we know that we are right. Imagine if the CPC does get a majority and manages to build a strong support base like the Lieberals have had for so long. If, in 30 years, that party were to fall apart like the Libs have...I would probably have a hard time accepting it too.

re: liberal ideology: hear hear.

centre of the bulls-eye there et.

you've done your homework on this one.

its like a type of socialism except the foundation of power isnt the proletariat (even in theory) but rather an extremely huge completely entrenched central authority. this is precisely the aims of pierre turdeau. centralized authority in ottawa with him at the helm. a.k.a. cult of personality.

I detested the man right from the start in 1968 when he first made headlines.

LOL !!!

Adam Smith would be aghast.

the 'invisible hand' has absconded into the netherworld of liberalism.

LOL !!!

Whether or not 99.9% of the liberals knew about the tax dollars being laundered through the sponsorships , the fact is about 99% of the liberal cabinet did and did nothing to stop it.
And so far not one of those liberal MPs have served one day in jail.

Joe Volpe for liberal leader, he knows what it takes, and how to take it.

new kid on the block said: "I think that PMSH is BRILLIANT!"

small dead animals: By Appointment

Prime Minister Harper is a brilliant politician.

Da proof is da proof (H/TU Knowhoo): The left liberals are in complete disarray, confusion, depression; ...
www.smalldeadanimals.com/archives/003523.html - 77k -

The Conservative house wins: Da Croupier-Jean said,da put da money on da red, you'll win wid me and Paul, sacre bleu. ...-

Conservatives rake in double the Liberals in individual party contributions
OTTAWA (CP) - The Conservative party appears to be doing just fine without the help of corporate donors, raking in nearly $18 million from individual Canadians last year. canoe news ...-

Stephen Harper might be brillian but Kate can make the Liberals change in a day.

Coderre*: "offered his apology to Diouf in the name of all Canadians."

The story says Coderre apologized on behalf of the Canadian Opposition(sic); down more, and the reporter says Coderre apologized for all Canadians. Canadian Press, aka CP, is trying to pull a flim-flam job on Canadians.

Is Coderre speaking for you? The arrogance of the Librano$ and the CP/MSM has no bounds.

This insufferable twit, Coderre, speaks for Canadians?

No. Coderre is a Liberal MP only. Back off, Coderre.

You, Coderre, do not speak for Canadians. ...-

Liberal MP Coderre apologizes to Francophonie head for Toronto body search

RABAT, Morocco (CP) - Liberal MP Denis Coderre has officially apologized to the secretary general of la Francophonie, Abdou Diouf, on behalf of the Canadian Opposition for the way Diouf was treated on entering Canada last spring.

Diouf, who is also the former president of Senegal, was body-searched on his arrival last May at Pearson International Airport in Toronto for a Francophonie summit.

The incident caused a diplomatic stir, and while Conservative Prime Minister Stephen Harper expressed his profound regrets, he stopped short of offering a full apology.

Coderre, who is part of a Canadian delegation attending a meeting of francophone parliamentarians in Morocco, offered his apology to Diouf in the name of all Canadians. ...-

* Don Cherry, frenchy, CBC, probe... oui?

* Coderre more:

Coderre positions himself as Liberal kingmaker
However, when asked Wednesday whether he thinks Quebecers can support a Liberal leadership candidate who supported the war in Iraq, Coderre refused to ...
www.canada.com/topics/news/national/story.html?id=1845d509-3008-48aa-9bc0-26f0d3d6d4d0&k=79963 - 47k -

The Liebrano$$$ are claiming, via Brian Laghi of the Globe and Mail, to be out of debt?

But what about this:

http://thecanadiansentinel.blogspot.com/2006/07/libs-3481825732-in-debt.html

Read the post, follow the links and read the commentary of the post.

The Liebrano$$$, I believe, are LYING and Brian Laghi and the G&M are just letting them do it, reporting their claims as if they were fact.

Why should we expect that desperate party to be on the up-and-up? If telling the truth would harm them, then why tell the truth? Nothing's stopping them from lying... just like when they were in power!

Wondering why PAUL MARTIN acted in strange ways ? It all makes sense if you look into his mind, just google MAURICE STRONG.

The CBC and Paul may someday regret this piece.

http://www.cbc.ca/lifeandtimes/strong.html

BHA, Maurice Strong sends a shiver down my spine and not the good kind either! ;-)

I hope he is frustrated to have been cut off from political access in Ottawa, must be quite a shock to him. Ah well, seems he has plenty of other governments to influence, I am sure we will see his handiwork elsewhere.

"A Few Late Nights Working With Erasers" is awfully darned funny, Kate, over that image. Can't quite.

Don't you Socialists and Libranos get the irony of that image? The Liberals put that up at their own web site. Or maybe the Devil made them do it. The same guy that made them steal all that money. This issue isn't over yet. There is way more dirt to dig up. The Auditor General is busy working away and the best is yet to come.

testing testing...........

You just know, that the pencil is stolen from some gubmint office.

Maurice Strong - the worlds richest pseudosocialist. A man espousing causes at the expense of others and taking the profits to his little group of insiders.

Warren Buffet- the polar opposite- making investment decisions to the benefit of a multitude of shareholders- and donating his own $37billion to the poor of the world, his one condition, that the donation be spent fully every year.

CBCpravda should do a biography on him instead uberlord Strong.( I know I know he is not Canajun)
- maybe he has a Cajun ancestor.

Nice picture that really sums up the Libranos as stuck in the past with just as much gaft and corruption as before. Joe Volpe anyone?

Accounting with pencil and paper when the rest of the modern world uses computers.

Maybe its their contribution to limiting climate change?

In Dec 05, did Sheila Copps not say the LPC had a debt of ~$34 Million. Now, a few months later, the "party" is in the black ? What gives, where did all the money come from ?

Paul Martin was probably the worst Prime Minister Canada ever had.

He came to power by stabbing the existing PM in the back and creating a massive divide in the party. A leader who had won 3 back to back majorities

He ruthlessly deposed anyone with the nerve to run against him and expunged anyone whom he felt was even the smallest threat against him (note that anyone who ran against him or supported someone who ran against him is gone).

He came to power with a large majority and plenty of time to call another election. He had every opportunity to implement any of his ideas and policies but chose not to, because he didn't have any ideas or policies.

In the face of Adscam he chose to run an early election and al he could come up with was to pull out the Liberal Superweapon(tm), fear.

Why change a perfectly good plan? After all it worked in 93,97, and 2000. Just point at the Conservatives and say bogeyman, bogeyman, bogeyman and ride to glorious victory.

He surrounded himself with yes men and he governed himself by reading polls. He poached numerous MP's from the Conservatives and the NDP and promoted them to key positions in his goverment.

He trotted out the same old tired promises from the 93, 97, and 2000 elections and held them out just out of reach of the voters constantly reminding them they would all be wiped out if his goverment fell. He never implemented any of them.

He rewrote a budget on a napkin in a hotel room with the NDP leader without telling or inviting his finance minister. And the NDP could not deliver enough votes to save him anyhow. Couldn't he count?

He insulted the most powerful nation on the planet to get votes. Repeatedly.

His most notable quote was: "I promise to quit if I break any of my promises".

He ran his last election on the strategy of doing nothing and letting the voters discover the real scary Stephen Harper. Well, he got his wish.

He went back to the Liberal Superweapon (tm) Fear, and crafted the stupidest election Ads to ever run in this country. Then he admitted to approving the Ads, then he denied it, then he admitted to appriving them "in principle".

His own MP's were calling the Ads stupid and refusing to appear with him or asking him to stay away.

He did not implement one single policy or piece of legislation that was worth anything. All he did was run around writing checks. Oops, he just ran around "promising" to write checks.

Martin spent his life plotting how to take power and never bothered to think about what to do after getting it.

I almost agree with everything you say--Martin was definitely A DISASTER, sadly not just to his party but to all Canadians--but I still think that Chretien, though he was much more politically savvy than Martin, was a thug and "da little gar from Shawinigan,"
with the emphasis on "little."

PS--How come Chretien is so rich? He was a lawyer then Canada's PM. You don't get rich being a lawyer and Canada's PM...

Comment at 1:37 p.m. was addressed to David Kyle.

Everyone here must remember to keep things in context in dealing with the LPC.
Kudos to the person(sorry,could not'refind'your post)who pointed out that they are making a'hullabaloo'about eliminating their DEFICIT,not their DEBT!Never underestimate the LPC's ability to play fast and loose with words as well as numbers...The only point of the'story'then,was to state they did not go any FURTHER into debt.

Anyways,shame on myself,and the rest of us,for not picking up on this point the first read.I would be interested as to how many millions they are still deeply in debt.(using Copp's estimates)

If it is true that the Federal Liberal's DEFICIT is in the black, BUT NOT their DEBT, I missed that also. Did Kate ?

The LPC AND the MSM successfully used this same devious misrepresentation to hammer the Reform Party a few years back. Libs claimed eliminating the DEFICIT in a year was stupid, like paying off your entire house mortgage in a single year. Voters were scared off, with the help of the MSM, of course.

Maybe the Liberals "think" that it is OK to continually have debt. Just tinker with the increasing or decreasing amount of indebtiness. It would truly be justice done if this dumb policy did-in the LPC. A policy started by PET.

The INTERNET AND BLOGS HAS CHANGED THE MEDIA BUSINESS FOREVER !!

really, you have to wonder about martin legacy.

he coveted the pmo for over a decade and then squandered it utterly, in record time.

he must actually be rather stupid. additional proof is his denial of knowing anything whatsoever about adscam whilst he was finance minister.

ferfuksake, if I ever got in a position like that, Id hire my OWN auditors from outside to secretly rummage thru and see if anything smelled bad. buuuut, martin was too stooopid to think of this kind over preemptive measure despite being in politics many years.

his old man was a real asshole as well. runs in the family.

or he did know and decided against any moves than could possibly alienate the party elites.

either way he deserves the atrocious record that will remain in the history books for centuries to come.

I don't mean to peepee on the parade here, but the comments filter is beginning to annoy me. Bet it'll block this one, too... sigh...

Librano$ Motto: "I hope that some day someone steals money and deposits it in your bank account without your knowledge." (Anonymous)...-

Harper to hold short, all-business visit with Bush at White House
WASHINGTON (CP) - It's all about being co-operative, not cosy. Full Story

Canada, U.S. trade officials settle wording of softwood deal
OTTAWA (CP) - Canada and the United States have reached agreement on a formal text for a softwood lumber deal, a giant step toward resolving the biggest trade irritant between the two countries ... cnews

David Kyle:
"Paul Martin was probably the worst Prime Minister Canada ever had."
I actually do not agree. I think the worst was Pierre Elliot Trudeau (for giving us the Canada that we know now and initiating bringing home the British North America Act), then the second worst was John Chretien (because he is a crook), and finally Paul Martin (because he was dealt a bad hand and had no idea how to play it).

Librano$ For Moe and Al $

# roger Daly Says:
June 30th, 2006 at 9:05 pm

I can also get you a video link to a Mosque meeting where Dan McTeague
is force to denounce Jesus as the Messiah for millions of Christians around the world, plus Liberal MP Walid Khan is on record stating the Allah and the Quran allow for “Revenge” attacks on non-Muslims that harm
Muslims or attack Islam.
When I complained to McTeague he basically told me to F.O. and never
email him again because I was the intolerant bigot and racist attacking innocent Muslims. McTeague quickly contacted the Mosque and had them edit out about 10 minutes of the Christian/Jew bashing by the parade of clerics at this “Anti racism” meeting.

I’ll check in later if there’s any interest in watching the Liberal MP’s and Mark Holland as well incite hatred against Catholics and Jews.
...- http://www.dustmybroom.com/?p=3989

Sounds like Dan McTeague is a submissive Dhimmi slave, doesn't it? Such folks disgust me.

Dan McTeague is clearly a complete imbecile of a left-wing extremist. Much like most Liebrano$$$, actually, as well as most Dipper$$$, IMHO.