Yup, that should get the economy back on track.

In my short lifetime, I have lived and worked in 5 provinces. Saskatchewan has not been one of them...although I have considered it twice. I have never been able to figure that province out. The small town individualistic mentality (like Alberta has) seems to be there. But, they have always appeared to me to be inexplicably leftist (i.e. the apparent love of Tommy Douglas and the massive civil service).

While living in Calgary, I used to say that, if you walked up to a random stranger on the street and asked, "What part of Saskatchewan are you from?"...more often than not the response would be, "How did you know where I was from?"

So, I always figured that Saskatchewan was a province of capitalists ruled by a minority of socialists and that only the REALLY disenfranchised actually left for Alberta. Of course, this is all unsubstantiated heresay. Just my impression.

Anyhoo...my inability to figure that province out is what has kept me away.

It is difficult indeed, to figure out Saskatchewan. I stay here because I love the province and know that some day, the government will change and we will again, PROGRESS! The policy and politics of the ndp still remain slightly below, "insane" but when you ask, ... NO ONE has ever voted for them! Yet, they keep getting elected!
Go figure...

Saskatchewan is endowed with rich deposits of oil, gas, uranium, potash, with wide tracts of forest, abundant fresh water, and some excellent farmland. If you want to kick some NDP butt and fix a place with enormous amounts of untapped potential, you are very welcome here!

How I wish Saskatchewan would become a "have" province after getting rid of the dippers and socialists. The positive influence on the rest of the Canadian lamprey to get off the federal government teat could put the Canadian economy into the black for good. And just maybe there will be something left for my kid's pension.

wishful thinking, I know.

"bryceman":
Don't underestimate yourself. You've "figured Saskatchewan out" quite well!
This time, the juggernaut of change will, I think, be unstoppable. The bland insanity of socialism is becoming too hard to ignore for too many regular folks here.
You may find yourself living here one day!

Coyote: Are you sure your mother allows you to use that dirty word "progress" when discussing social trends.

The hardworking "disenfranchised" leaving the flatlands to labour in the tar sands of Alfarta and the restaurants, etc. The nomads on the move again living hand to mouth aspiring to the average Canadian home listed now at $300,000. No doubt this second wave of 'immigrants' to the tar sands are as expendible as the first in the eighties -- maybe moreso.

Wage legislation, anyone, anyone? Review of border/minimum wages to the tune of between 24 and 34 percent? That's majority territory critical mass thinking. Dems in States exploring this with spin doctors already at work at authentic sounding campaign rhetoric. Employees WANT AD states...."guaranteed ten year contract only, no benefits and pension plan not needed." lol

Hey Mike:

But that's the weird paradox. If my observations are accurate (about the people generally being individualistic - and having the gumption to be able to stand independently and rely on themselves), then how, as Coyote points out, do the NDP keep getting elected?

BC, from time to time, goes through the insanity of putting an NDP government in place. But they always end up correcting (and sometimes over-correcting) with a vengeance. What's up with Saskatchewan?

BTW: I ask that with all sincere earnestness. I am not trying to chide.

Tommy,

No insult intended, but I can't understand a thing you just wrote.

Uhhh Tommy...

I don't claim to know every person from Saskatchewan who left that province for Alberta. But I can't think of a single one I ever met who was living in the desparate "hand to mouth" scenario that you are describing. They were all professionals...well educated (and a few of them were constantly "upgrading"). There were a couple of them who I knew who worked in the oil patch. But, they were well established and did not feel like any kind of second-class citizen.

You are almost making it sound like Albertans are making slaves out of (what do you call a person from Saskatchewan?..."Saskatchewanite?"). I think that's a pretty silly point of view considering that (as I mentioned in my first comment in this thread), it seems like Calgary is made up mostly of people from small-town Saskatchewan.

Off topic, but I'm just so p____d off right now having just listened to a CTV report on the GST tax cut, which came into affect today. Can't these guys say anything positive about a tax cut? They whined and complained when Mulroney introduced the 7 percent GST, and CTV news has to find a reason to see that the sky is falling, even interviewing an economist who said it was a bad. Ggeeeez.

Saskatchewan has experienced two periods of declining population in he past century and both times it began at the tail of a Conservative government's reign in office; something they've only held twice coincidently. So clearly it's conservative policies that are driving people out of the province.

How I wish Saskatchewan would become a "have" province after getting rid of the dippers and socialists.

Saskatchewan is a have province, rube. Rather than taking Kate's misinformed blathering as fact you should actually look at the economic indicators of the province. They're first rate. Saskatchewan ranks in the top four in most of them.

Speaking of misinformed blather - Grant Devine grew the population of the province, as did Romanow. Population decline is Lorne Calvert's baby. God knows it has nothing to do with the predatory tactics of the Crown corporations and his ever-expanding civil service.

Tax cut opponents should fight the government by sending it all the money they save! That'll teach'em!

NO ONE has ever voted for them! Yet, they keep getting elected!

This is the same theme I came across in the 6 years I spent in Saskatoon. As a born and raised Albertan who went to Saskatchewan to start a business, I was at first stunned and after a while merely disappointed by the short sightedness of many people in the province.
The NDP ran on the fear mongering of "Do you want to be Alberta Lite?" That's EXACTLY what Saskatchewan could and should be.
THEN, you'd have population groeth.

Speaking of misinformed blather - Grant Devine grew the population of the province, as did Romanow. Population decline is Lorne Calvert's baby.

A falsehood: Population decline precedes Lorne Calvert, and cannot be laid at his door.

A story by James Wood in Saturday's Regina Leader-Post (page A6) says that, since 1972, "there have been only six years where the number of people coming into the province exceeded those leaving."

According to Wood (also, oddly, the author of quite differently-slanted Star-Phoenix story Kate quotes), high outmigration levels have been present for many years.

Indeed, Wood cites a study by three U of S professors (Partidge, Olfert and Fulton) which found "the province is part of a pattern of pervasive population decline throughout the great plains of North America, from West Texas to the northern prairies."

I know some will rush to refute this conclusion by pointing to *overall* population growth in Alberta or Manitoba or elsewhere, but I wonder if the population data they would cite would really show that those jurisdictions have avoided *rural* and/or *small centre* depopulation, or whether they have just grown their *large urban* numbers in a way that hides their rural and small centre population drops.

As the U of S study notes, some of the population shifts have a lot more to do with changes in economics and technology than they have to do with specific government policies:

Patridge says Saskatchewan's decline doesn't have much to do with government policy, pointing out that the pattern of population loss throughout the Great Plains has affected governments of various ideologies.

'We could have better government policies but we can't just say "gosh, if we just had a more pro-business government all our problems would be solved,"' he says.

An unpopular view on this blog, I'm sure, but then most views based on facts rather than knee-jerk NDP-bashing generally are.

That's not to say Saskatchewan shouldn't try to attract more people, or to address the issue of an aging working population (also flagged by the U of S report).

It is to say that those who think we have only to vote out the NDP and vote in another party haven't bothered to do any serious thinking about this topic.

For where is Brad Wall's concrete plan to 'grow the provincial population'? Or David Karwacki's, for that matter?

How will either of them stop people from leaving Saskatchewan to go elsewhere?

So far, we haven't heard.

FWIW, my own suggestion is to devote resources to attracting more immigrants from around the world, and making it easier for them to settle, work and live in Saskatchewan.

We should so this even as we work with our First Nations people to devote more resources to helping them participate more fully in the province's educational and employment programs.

That would be a start.

Robert McClelland,

Have you ever looked at the books in Saskatchewan? Perhaps you have read the most recent budget in which Lorne Calvert increased the Provincial debt by another $285,000,000 and had the nerve to call it a "balanced" budget?

The oil & gas reserves in Saskatchewan and Alberta are about the same, only Saskatchewan used to charge a 33% royalty and Alberta charged a 17% royalty. ( Saskatchewan has lowered their royalty to 19% in recent years ). The other thing Saskatchewan has done on numerous occasions is to Nationalize business, against to the will of the rightful owners, like Cuba did, or Hugo Chavez is doing now.
So really it comes down to a simple comparison: Saskatchewan is a Socialist's dream and Alberta is the Conservative dream. People are voting for the better system with their feet.

bryceman:
The last election was won by the NDP with a one-seat majority. Sask. has a huge provincial civil service, and these people know which side their bread is buttered on. Add in the employees of huge Crown Corporations who succumb to the fear-mongering by the NDP at election time, and there's enough votes to easily change the outcome. I don't claim they all vote dipper, but the way the seats pan out is telling.
Fear-mongering works. A critical number bought the "scary Stephen Harper" meme federally, too. Note where the only Lib seats in western Canada are.
I still think a critical percentage of people today are no longer buying it. Maybe wishful thinking on my part...

To all the Socialists and Dippers. The proof is in the pudding. In 1931 Saskatchewan was the 3rd largest province in Canada. The population was close to 1 million. We have been hovering at that point for 75 years. The Dippers and their ilk having been "ruling" this province for the vast majority of the time . The NDP have consistently chosen to spend our hard earned tax dollars on hiring voters disguised as civil servants. The NDP stay in power by creating despair and dependence. They are afraid of Saskatchewan new found wealth and are making a concerted effort to blow it all . They will not allow the people of this province to keep the money they earn for fear they may become prosperous . Properous people do not vote for Socialism because they have something to lose. The NDP want to keep people who are dependent on them here and drive everyone else away. But they should be carefull what they wish for because that is exactly what is happening. The scary thing about the population numbers is that it does not tell the whole story. Saskatchewan has a very high population of Senior citizens who can't afford to escape Saskatchewn winters. Many of the wealthy one leave for hostile weather conditions. we also have an expolding First Nations population that live in areas up north with 80-90% unemployment. Who is footing the bill for all of this? You add in the largest civil service per capita in Canada and how many net taxpayers do have left to pay the bills? The net taxpying group is getting smaller and smaller in proportion to the other groups. Sakatchewan has been able to maintain these very skewed demographics because of it's abundant resources and it's hardworking loyal citizens. The younger generation seems to have lost the will to fight to save this province and are bailing at an alarming rate. They watched their parents work hard just to survive and pay their high taxes an they want a different life.It is the ambitious ones who would help build this province that are leaving. If Saskatchewan continues to support this Socialist regime we will just see more of the same. Crumbling infrastructure (roads are the most visible symptom), out migration , high taxes, high crime rate, way too many civil servants. Sounds wonderfull doesn't it. If this is the kind of world you want just keep voting NDP.

BTW the NDP LOST the popular vote in the 1999 election! They only got back into power through a back-room deal with the Liberals.

(what do you call a person from Saskatchewan?..."Saskatchewanite?")

When they started settling on my street in Calgary (1971) we referred to them as Saskabushers.

That very same year the Conservatives won a majority government ending 36 years of Social Credit rule.

Eerie eh? They were “bushers”.

The size of Sask's snivil service is a scandal but, guess what? Here in free enterprise Alberta there are more government employees per capita than in the wicked socialist stutopia. There was a sharp reduction of folks on the public teat during the first few years of the Klein government but, now that the oil money is flowing freely again, everthing is back to "normal".

I don't know Zog, there was a recent article in the Star Phoenix stating figures that showed Saskatchewan is still the leader in that respect.

Robert,

"Saskatchewan has experienced 2 periods of declining population..."

Please explain to me when the last conservative government in Saskatchewan lost power and who has had the reins since. This habit of blaming the last administration only works so long (don't forget that the last government in Sask. was NDP). Calvert and his crew have been there long enough to at least START fixing the problems rather than becoming the problem.

What about the sign on the Alberta border that faces into Saskatchewan? "Last one to leave please turn out the lights" That joke has been around Calgary since I was a kid.

Some insight into SK voting patterns: generally speaking, the poorer the voter, the higher the liklihood that they will vote NDP: thus, the poor inner-city neighbourhoods in Saskatoon Regina and PA are the safest NDP seats. Indians on Reserves vote over 90% NDP, and the turnout there exceeded the turnout amoungst the general pop, but only becasue the Band leadership was motivated and got the vote out. We know that SK under the dippers has a low mediam income, has high rates of crime and poverty: the problem is that it is young and successful people that are leaving: the "bums" (and old-timers) stay behind and vote NDP: the danger is that as things get worse, will the dippers become entrenched?

I should ahve added that SK has a disproportionately large Crown sector, and the unionised gov employees have also tended to vote red. Meanwhile, private inductry is being chased out... NDP entrenched?

To Stephen and Robert McClelland:

Once again, I’m getting so sick of you Saskatchewan NDP freaks it enrages me to simply read any little thing you say. The only thing that satiates me is the knowledge that you are clearly getting the boot this coming year. If Weyburn-Big Muddy is any indication, you are going to be annihilated and will not be back in power for a long, long, long, long time.

It also amazes me how you consistently refer to the Conservative governments in Saskatchewan and how they were the source of all the damage that we as a province experience and have experienced. You would think that the NDP, having held by far the majority of the government tenure, would have been able to undo any alleged ills the Conservatives might have committed. The truth of the matter is that the NDP hasn’t been able to cure any of these alleged ills because… wait for it… THEY ARE THE SOURCE OF THE DAMAGE THEMSELVES.

From the ‘Available hours’ legislation, ignoring the Vic Report year after year, Spudco, Minds-Eye investments, the predatory manner of the Crowns Corps, fear mongering and lies during elections to simply more than I can list off, the NDP shows not only its incompetence but the predatory spirit it truly lives by.

Long story short, I sincerely believe the Saskatchewan NDP are going down – and going down hard. I, for one, can hardly wait to see them be removed from the slate of Saskatchewan government process as we move forward.

Postscript: I can understand your unhappiness with the government of the day, but that kind of rage is apt to lower our population by another "1" if you keep it up... lol... we can't afford that! So calm down M8!

: )

Channel that rage into something constructive, like a small business... that's what I did. There is a compelling paper on entrepreneurial network cues by Minitti that supports the theory that entrepreneurs and business will seek out opportunity in areas where others present social cues that it is "acceptable".

I think those network externalities succinctly differentiate Alberta and Saskatchewan, as it is more acceptable to behave entrepreneurially in Alberta.

I for one would never let a government get in my way of capitalizing on opportunity and generating value and wealth... Change comes from the grassroots, not through government.

Cheers!

Leto

The dippers do not get to inflict their damage upon Saskatcetchewan because they are nice: they get to do so beasue they are inscrupulous and nasty.
By way of example, I ahve twice been told by angry old men in the last feww years to "move to Alberta then if you don;t like it here", once while holding a baby, and this was during a calm and civil discussion of politics here. Of course, i told them that many of my freinds already ahve, and I might be next.
If things don;t change, if the dippers win the next election, why stick around?

...i always thought Calgary was Saskatchewan's biggest city, with all the SK plates running around.

Now we've got more people in Calgary than the whole province of Sask.

Shame, beautiful country and history, all for naught.

All that virtually free oil offered up by Alberta is creating quite a party there. Sask. will just have to be patient and wait until the boom calms. Meanwhile, you can quietly cash in in a more modest way, as befits Sask.

Steve, you mistake mediocrity for modesty: you refer to "cashing in", but what you really mean is oil subsidizing the dependance of gov workers, the elderly and welfare cases in Saskatchewan, while Alberta has created a truly diversified economy.

Yeah, Kate, Devine grew the population. Unfortunately he also unconscionably grew the debt to the point of bankruptcy, leaving a fiscal legacy that haunts us still. All the right has to offer is whining and finger pointing and Alberta envy and the same freemarket fundamentalist nostrums Devine employed.

postcript wrote:

Once again, I’m getting so sick of you Saskatchewan NDP freaks it enrages me to simply read any little thing you say.

Obvious from the tone and content of your post.

It also amazes me how you consistently refer to the Conservative governments in Saskatchewan and how they were the source of all the damage that we as a province experience and have experienced.

It amazes me that you would charge me with this, since my post above makes no mention of Conservative governments, and I doubt I've elsewhere made the claim you attribute to me.

ignoring the Vic Report year after year

What can this phrase possibly mean? Especially after Andrew Thomson's statements about the last budget?

Thomson adds that the largest factor that convinced him to fully implement the Vicq Report was ongoing discussions with the Saskatchewan business community where he was assured that business tax cuts would translate into more jobs and investment in the province and not be used to simply profit take.

"I really do think we are going to see significant investment and new jobs created as a result of this (business tax cuts)," Thomson says.

Wow, a radical anti-business tirade from Thomson there, eh?

Long story short, I sincerely believe the Saskatchewan NDP are going down

Believe what you will, Saskatchewan's voters will eventually make their decision, regardless of your ill-informed ramblings.

Devine grew the population. Unfortunately he also unconscionably grew the debt to the point of bankruptcy, leaving a fiscal legacy that haunts us still.

Simply not true. Devine's government actually ran operating surplus' for most of the years he was in power, but ran budget deficits because of the overhang of very high interest rates coming out of the 1970s and early 80s. Try inheriting the kind of neglect and mess that Blakeney left behind, with 20% interest rates, and unfunded pensions, and put in a fiscal performance that even matches Devine's. Very difficult, if not impossible.

Devine's government built a lot of stuff as well that was responsible for powering the Saskatchewan economy in the 1990s. The NDP cried like babies when the Shand Power station was built -- but every last watt of output was desperately needed by the mid 1990s (as predicted). SaskTel built out a fibre optic network that is the basis for the Internet access that Saskatchewan people now enjoy. Highways were actually maintained, not left to neglect. The economic benefits of the Devine-built heavy oil upgrader total in the billions for Saskatchewan today, as do the income taxes paid by Cameco and PCS, divested Crown corporations and now multinational leaders in their respective industries.

Devine has nothing to apologize for, and the dippers ought to be ashamed of innaccurately portraying his record as being anything but of honour, service, and dedication to the province he loves, and might I add, still lives in (your beloved Tommy Douglas...left the province in his retirement).

...still lives in Saskatchewan, just outside of Moose Jaw (your beloved Tommy Douglas...left the province in his retirement).

Stephen:

"Despite the NDP's protestations to the contrary, it's becoming increasingly obvious that the ruling party is growing nervous about the official opposition. You can see this by looking at the speed with which this government has responded to recent Saskatchewan Party initiatives."
-Randy Burton, Saskatoon Star Phoenix, Feb. 8/05

Randy says that beautifully. If it wasn't for the fact that the NDP is crapping it pants right now, they would definitely not have moved forward anywhere near what they did with the Vic Report. The NDP are without doubt the most anti-business party in Canada, and for you to even try to dispute that is simply foolish. See the following letter from the Saskatoon Business Chamber of Commerce:

http://www.eboardoftrade.com/files/Productivity_Reports/Advocacy/12_13_04_Letter_MLAs.pdf

That summarizes nicely how 'business friendly' the NDP are.

When you make comments like, "... where is Brad Wall's concrete plan to 'grow the provincial population'?", that's what ticks me off. Not only do you try and insult the Conservatives who have been feeding the NDP ideas for the past 12 years, but you completely ignore the plan that is right in front of you. If you care to review the Saskatchewan Party site or search the internet you would find there has been a plan for the Saskatchewan economy from Wall and SaskParty for a long time. But of course, you don't want to see that.

Mark...As to your enumeration of Devine "achievments", well, as someone commented during his tenure, even a blind squirrel gets a few acorns.
Your historic revisionism just dosen't cut it, no matter how much time has elapsed. The truth is Devine inherited a fiscal situation in which there was zero debt on the budget side and a sound infrastructure. He ran deficits every year he was in office while divesting the gov't. of assets through privitization. By 1990 the debt to asset ratio put us $3.4 billion in the hole.
The NDP keeps forming gov't., regardless of their performance because of the memory of the Devine Conservative gov't.
If Devine performed so exceptionally, why did the PC party have to kill itself off and resurrect as the SK party?
Why wouldn't Harper's Conservatives touch his candidacy with a barge pole?
Say what you want about Calvert, one thing he said is right on the money. The right doesn't believe in government, and every once in a while they get elected and demonstate it.
One thing this province can't afford is another right-wing fiscal performance to match Devine's.

maryjane:

Yeah, because we're doing so well under the NDP. Business is thriving, people are moving here in droves, our resources are being used in such a way as to benefit our economy and standard of living and the free-market is thriving.

Oh, wait - that's Alberta, where they have had a strong Conservative government for a long time.

There is absolutely no reason why Saskatchewan should not be performing like Alberta in a greater variety of sectors except for the ineptitude of the NDP governance.

Ahh, Alberta envy raises it's ugly rightwing head. The fact is, Alberta is where it is in spite of, not because of the Conservatives. Even Devine could have balanced the books there.

Maryjane knows that Alberta had a debt as great as Sk's 10 years ago: while we have gone deeper in debt, Alberta is debt fee. Maryjane knows this but does not care, because the smoke is maliscious. And I envy Alberta becasue so many of my friends, good people all, ahve moved there and are raising their families and pursuing their careers there: meanwhile, we are held back by selfish and dishonest and self-righteous dippers like maryjane.
maryjane, I wish you would move to Alberta, they need some more socialists there.

Yes bushman, I'm sure your delusions give you much comfort and self-justification when you go to the post office to pick up your subsidy check.

Admit it, grassass, Alberta had as much debt as Saskatchewan 10 years ago. remember the 80s, the decade of deficits? well, Alberta did something about it and things got better. Saskatchewan stuck with you dippers and has suffered.
And leave the post office alone, you sick bstrd, it is a venerable Canadian institution. delusions? I wish. I wish i was high on socialist idealogy, i wish I had the naivity of youth, but no, I have to see and understand how bad you pish poshers have made economic and social conditions with your do-gooding bs. you;re lucky I didn't catch you peeing on the cenitaph you ittle dooby-head.

As much debt and 3x the population, do the math or are your addition skills on a par with your spelling?

Mary Jane,

When you speak of subsidies, I'm getting a little tired of paying yours and the other thousands of salaries to the bureaucracy each day I go to work. I do not farm. I own a small business which, like many others in this province, is struggling to make ends meet. I pay my staff a VERY fair wage, have introduced a VERY generous benefits plan (I'm reminded of that by a very THANKFUL staff) and yet, I keep going further and further in the hole each month. My business relies directly on the success of other businesses around me and, to make a long story short, they are coming up short on cash as well...it's a vicious cycle.

So, when you talk of Alberta envy, it's true. I so wish I was in Alberta at the moment (I have many colleagues in the same industry as me who are doing VERY well). Instead of wondering how I'm going to pay the next round of bills I'd possibly be able to bank away some money for my retirement. While you and the other sponges in Regina are putting in your SGEU mandated 37.5 hour work week with every second Friday off, not to mention your matched pension plan and "reasonable" salary, I'm sitting here with a business that represents my retirement and it's sinking slowly into the NDP abyss.

I'm 37 years old, my wife and I have our first child on the way and I'm not planning to leave SK anytime soon. It would give me no better pleasure than to place my "X" next to my SK Party candidate and let him/her kick your confused, bloated, holier than thou asses out onto the streets so you can work in a real job like the rest of us.

And, before you start your predictable comeback espousing how rosy everything is where you live, take a look out your back door. Enjoy the view while you can. Your party is going down and so are you and a few thousand snivel servants. I've worked too damn hard for too damn long (18 years) to let a worn out United Church minister, 29 of his closest cronies and a whole whack of you useless bureaucrats wreck what I've built.

So help me God, if the people of Saskatchewan re-elect this band of losers, I'll be packing up and heading west where common sense and hard work are rewarded, not shite upon!!!

pissed off wrote:

"And, before you start your predictable comeback espousing how rosy everything is where you live, take a look out your back door. Enjoy the view while you can. Your party is going down and so are you and a few thousand snivel servants."

---

That is a fantastic piece of writing.

As for ‘maryjane’:

All you do is prove your ineptitude when you write. The plain fact is YOU have no plan, not you or your NDP pals. Everything the NDP has done beneficial for the economy of Saskatchewan has been siphoned off the SaskParty.

Plain fact: The NDP, anywhere in Canada, drives the province it governs in to the ground.

I, like 'pissed off', am sick and tired of it. I will work my hands to the bone to see the NDP dethroned and pushed as far back in to the nether-regions of Saskatchewan history as possible. And I can guarantee you this, if by some act of stupidity the NDP is re-elected next year, I will take my two university degrees and high-tech experience and my wife will take her financial degree and we'll move to Alberta where we are rewarded for our efforts.

We'll see how well you survive when it's you, the retired baby-boomers and a 1/3 of the population that is undereducated and tax exempt.

You boys have everything on your side but the facts and a grasp of history. Pissed off was wet behind the ears when this same right-wing jive was being peddled in '82. Who knows what accounts for postscript's ignorance.
That being said, go, by all means go to the free market paradise of AB. No one will notice your absence. Civilization does not stand or fall by your existence.

We're in the middle of a boom here in Sask but people keep leaving. My wife works in healthcare and she says they can't fill jobs. Good unionized jobs. Nurses(32.00 an hr),LPN's (27.00 an hr),Home heath aids(18.00 an Hr),Labourers (15,00 to 17.00 an Hr)and it goes on. No one applies.So is that the gov't fault? I think the lure of Alberta is so great that people don't apply here.
It doesn't help that the Sask Party preaches doom and gloom. They get alot of exposure. It's cheaper to live here than in Alberta. I think people look to the west as Oz where everything is great and the streets are paved with gold. It's not the wages. It's the state of mind in Rural sask where all farm kids go to work in the oil patch. They don't even apply here.

ok4ua, there is more to life than living cheaply: we could move to Siberia or Cuba if that's all we wanted. I am young and educated and work in private industry in SK: I see this province falling behind, and quickly. We need some freedom, we need to get rid of the old 1950's NDP mentality. We need to rid ourselves of the maryjane's of Saskatchewan that tell the best amoungst us to leave (more for you then eh, maryjane, as the great NDP philospher Laudermilch said). ok4ua, you and your generation of socialists are the problem; I know you mean well, but you are misguided.

maryjane:

Fill me in where my history is wrong. Instead of the same tired rhetoric, give me something to base your dribble on that in some way appears as valid and verifiable. If you want to review history then let us recount the tactic of the NDP to simply resort to rhetoric and fear mongering when they see their kingdom coming apart (ala 2003 provincial election).

I have a fair bit of family in Alberta, both immediate and extended. My brother pays less tax than I do here. His property tax in Edmonton is half of what a comparable house would be in Saskatoon or Regina. The initial cost of his house appears high ($400,000), except that my wife and I went to look at a 1600 ft^2 bungalow last week here (nothing special) for $380,000. I know I could find a pretty nice house in Alberta for the same price and my brother’s house is only $20,000 more. Now, considering my starting-wage (note ‘starting’ wage) here in Saskatchewan is roughly $15,000 - $20,000 less than the comparable job in Alberta the supposed cost-of-living gap between SK and AB has already been shortened. Further consider that the top wage for my industry and skill-set in Alberta is $130,000 - $150,000 in comparison to $95,000 - $105,000 in Saskatchewan and you start to see real differences. I’m not going to go in to all the tax revenue my wage would bring to the government because you, and any NDP reading this post, wouldn’t understand the economic benefits.

It doesn’t seem to sink in to your (maryjane and like's) head is that competition is a good thing - not bad. Without competition you create monsters like SaskTel who, instead of delivering essential services, have moved to the private sector markets and compete with their own citizens. There are so many more examples of this in the NDP government that it really is sickening. The issue that is most maddening is that your ilk cannot see the nose in front of your faces let alone a view toward the future of the province. Having a disproportionate amount of government and public-sector versus private-sector employees never leads to strong social programs or economic health.

What you call ignorance is what many others (including me) are calling facts and a serious need for change. BTW, history does shine through clearly and it shows that you are going to be trounced out on your ass.

Quit with this comparison to Russia that is your problem.It's cheaper to live here and you can live better here on a little lower wage. To the fella claiming the 100,000.00 plus wages I think you are full of baloney. I'll bet you don't have a high paying job at all. I have a 1280 sq ft bungalow I recently had it appraised at 184,000.00. It's a nice house in a good neighbourhood. You living in a 380,000.00 house is, if it's true is not an average home here in Sask. Houses in Wascanaview go for that not in most hoods. Most people that talk big like that is just talk. More American type/Alberta B.S.

For what it's worth to postscript and wake up!, I feel the exact same way. I earned just under $75k last year, live in a nice 5 bedroom home in rural SK (recently appraised for legal purposes at just over $110k), operate a small business that employs half a dozen very talented and very appreciated people. I drive a nice truck, have a nice 24 ft. camper and a few other toys. My wife has a degree from the U of R, a diploma from NAIT (she moved back to SK because we were getting married) and holds certificates in some other disciplines. After 2 years of searching for even the most basic position, she's still pretty much jobless. Over 100 resumes out the door, 4 interviews and 4 employers who told her she was "over qualified". But, we've made due on one income so far but with our first child on the way, I'm not sure we're going to be able to stay that way (unless Lorne comes to the rescue...which is highly unlikely).

The part that makes me violently ill in this province is the attitude people have...and I quote:

"...must be nice to have all that money...ever think of the rest of us working for nickels?"
"...so, hauling all that cash to the bank with the fancy new wheels again today?"
"...so who'd you screw to buy THAT house?"

and on and on and on it goes.

By comparison, when I drive out to AB to see my sisters and their kids, I feel a bit like a derelict in my '04 truck. But, the comments I get out there are "right on, business is good, huh?" and "yeah, I'm like you and am planning to trade up sometime later this summer". In SK, it's jealousy and mean spirited envy if you have some of the nicer things. In AB, it's expected! No one in AB is going to sit there and feel sorry for you if you aren't prepared to work for what you want. It's true, people in SK do value material things more because they've had to bust their ass to get what they want...but, that said, they also know that it could all disappear with one stroke of the order in council pen (ask the private security company guy what happened when SaskTel got into providing security monitoring service or the guy working for the cable company when someone at SaskTel had the brainwave to say, "gee boys, we need to start offering cable service through our phone lines because we're in long distance competition now".

I'm not saying terrible things can't happen in the marketplace, but when it's your own government that delivers your pink slip, that's when most people draw the line.

The socialist dogma may have worked in the 30s and 40s when people felt they were disadvantaged. However, times change (we've gone from shacking up as a sin in the 50s to full-blown gay marriage in this country) and so does the global economy. In order to compete with other countries around the globe, we as a society need to free ourselves to make OUR OWN choices in the economy and not have someone on the teet drawing up some plan for us.

We will never have that ability as long as the NDP hold power or lurk in the shadows in this province. If the NDP were truly serious about being a party for the common good of the people of this province, they could set an astounding example by ripping up and burning the Regina Manifesto tomorrow. But, we know that will never happen because of the anti-business attitude that exists in the NDP. If they do something that radical, I'll even show up with the ceremonial Bic lighter!!!

And MaryJane, it's interesting that you say I was "wet behind the ears" when Devine was in power. I really had a good chuckle at that one. My father, whose knowledge of the political history and landscape of this province along with his experiences, never ceases to amaze me. Like any good parent, he's allowed me to make my own political choices and, for the most part, it's been very, very easy to do. My youngest aforementioned sister will be the first in four generations to collect a publicly-funded pension (in AB as a nurse, I might add) as the rest of us have all been successful owning and operating various businesses. I guess what I'm getting at is I'm dancing with the one who brung me, to coin a phrase. The NDP have done nothing for us (and tens of thousands others) and it's time to get this place moving FORWARD and not relying on painfully-biased, publicly funded Tommy Douglas movies and recollections of yesteryear to provide warm, fuzzy feelings amongst the easily bamboozled electorate.

I've never supported the NDP and will go to my grave that way. In closing, MaryJane, come to my doorstep before next election night. And don't forget to bring a resume...I'm always looking for scrappy, easily swayed people like you at my office. Type "B" personalities such as yourself are easily trainable. Who knows, you might even enjoy working for me. I pay well, treat my staff better than my own family most days and offer not 3, but 4 paid weeks of vacation to start!

See you soon...unless, of course, you can't part with your life in Lotusland...

Hey ok4ua, Cuba is not in Russia;

and Hurray for Saskatchewan! It's cheap here! We've created the Bargain Basement of provinces! We should be so proud of our roads, our waiting lists, our crime rates, our coupon-collecting old-timers and pension-collecting civil servants and hand-out expecting envious dependants. You make me so proud: I'm from Saskatchewan, our motto is "try us, we're cheap!". Our bird is the seagull? our flower is the dandelion; we don;t fly high, we're too cheap!

Sometimes you fkrs get what you pay for!

History lesson... In the almost 80 yrs. prior to the election of the Devine PC govt. in 1982, through two world wars and the great depression, while a significant infrastructure was put in place ( Universities, schools , hospitals, Crown corporations, etc) successive govt.s of every stripe had accumulated a debt of $3.3 billion, not a dime of which resulted from deficit budgets. By March, 1990, in 8 short years, the debt had increased to $12.7 billion, while provincial assets were being divested. LP political columnist Dale Eisler put it this way at the time: "If the government sold off everything it owns and paid all it's debts, the government would still owe $3.4 billion."
The deficit in '91-92 was $800 million, '92-93, $600 m, '93-94 $250 m. Since then there has not been any deficit budgets. Debt to GDP in '93 was 69%. in '05 it stood at 28%.
So we've come a hell of a long way since the dark decade of Devine. I can recall hearing the same empty rhetoric from the PC's and their supporters in the early '80,s as I'm hearing from the SK party and their supporters today. All that's missing is the cereal box sloganeering, but I'm sure that's coming. We've come too far, sacrificed too much to foolishly repeat history in our forgetfulness of the yahooism of the '80,s.

Thant's great mj, you're stuck in the 80's. Meanwhile, in the real world, your buddy Calvert runs deficits and pretends he doesn;t, calling them the fiscal stabilization fund.
And as you pointed out before, 10 years ago, Ab and Sk had the same amount of debt, but AB had 3X the population: now how do things stand? AB has no debt, SK debt is growing, and AB has 3.5X the population?
Very impressive how you can quote newspaper articles from the 80's: you don't sound like your average pothead!

maryjane:

Are you on crack? Why are you the only one who seems to have this view of history?

Devine governed through drought, a massive crash in oil prices, 20% interest rates and the National Energy Program (under the nimrod Trudeau).

You're, "... not a dime of which resulted from deficit budgets." from the governing NDP, is full of crap. It is still widely disputed that all the NDP did was hide their losses in the Crown Corps. It's convenient to have those Crowns around when you want to shift money here and there so that your crappy government doesn't look like it really is - a useless economic engine.

Calvert and crew have been governing in one of the best decades for financial development, and yet, they have managed to shrink the population and run deficits. They would still be running a deficit if it wasn't for the fluke timing of a surge in oil prices.

Personally, I'm waiting for the NDP to start their personal smears like they did last time around on Hermanson.

ok4ua:

Take a look at the median wage for an Information Security Professional. A couple of weeks ago I saw a posting for an ITSec Professional in Calgary. The starting wage - $85,000. That's the starting wage, wages after a few years in the industry go up substantially. I personally know someone in the field here in SK who told me that unless you get in the good books with the Crowns, you're not going to make a lot of money here.

Believe me, if I was fully certified right now, off to Calgary I would we.

You Tories are so full of hate. Why are you so angry? We have had balanced budgets for the past 10 years that is a fact. No scandal involving the NDP. The farmers in spudco got a good deal,no NDPer benefited. We are in a boom here in Sask if you'd open your eyes. We have never had good times under any Tory gov't federally or local. Tory times are hard times. All you tories do is whine that you'd do better. I for one no my history Tory times are hard times. I don't trust the Sask/Tory party at all.

Another comment you know what the NDP have done? They make the Tories look bad and the Tories make themselves look bad. Every time a Tory gov't gets in it's bad. Even in Alberta the Tories have a heritage fund of 14 billion dollars. How long has it been at that amount? I'd say at least 2o years. Norway has a similar fund and it's at 200 billion dollars. Where has all the money in Alberta gone? Something stinks. That's your tories if they get any money they piss it away.
You pay 430.00 a year in health insurance,380,000.00 for your average home in Calgary. High electrical and energy rates. Go stick your Tory ideas where the sun doesn't shine. You are full of crap.

ok4ua:

"You Tories are so full of hate."

Wow, talk about the pot calling the kettle black.

"I don't trust the Sask/Tory party at all."

Well, you'd better look at relocating cause you're in for a long, long haul with the SaskParty running the ship.

My point exactly. You have no policy just threats. The one thing the NDP do is make the Tories look bad.

ok4ua:

Evidently you can't read. The NDP make the Tories look bad? Jack Layton is the laughing stock of Canada. The guy is such a boob it doesn't warrant even making statements about him.

When the SaskParty is in power and you're precious NDP is virtually non-existent next year - I'd love to have this conversation with you again.

Oh, by the way, you and your hypocrites the NDP are now thinking of selling off the Crowns to private industry. Wow, you guys really suck at the teat of the SaskParty when the ship is sinking, don't you?

http://www.canada.com/saskatoonstarphoenix/news/story.html?id=488350ba-2c32-48d4-84c7-30b530c7897b&k=51542

ok4ua, you have been brainwashed; there is no use arguing with this bitter, envious old fool. His fear of Calgary prices is pathetic. Bargain basement civil servent and his race to the bottom: well, they are winning, but the yonger generation will turn this place around before it's too late!

Two things bushman.
The fact that we still have debt is an indication of how deep a fiscal hole the last free enterprise government put us in.
It is also an indication of how much of a drag on the economy is subsidizing right-wing voting farmers from cradle to grave.
http://www.bmonesbittburns.com/economics/
budget/2006sk/

postscript...If those old canards debt being hidden in the Crowns had any validity, they should be easy enough to verify. Why don't you do so?

You Mr.Bushmen should look back to history. I'm older than you that's for sure and "budwiser". You're blind and ignorant to the facts. You can't scare people to vote. And you're right the SaskaTory party is scary. Why would I vote for a party that in your own words will make it difficult for the average taxpayer. You said it. If you don't like it here leave your job, if you have one ,I'm on vacation, and go where your much needed skills can be used. Like exactly what skills do you have if any?

typical SK red civil servant telling a young taxpayer to leave; Mr ok, we've been leaving in droves, and when loyal people like me finally get fed up and leave SK, there won't be much left. Harder for taxpayers? yeah, that's why we keep leaving for AB: it's not NDP voters that are leaving: it is young, educated, or older, monied people that are leaving: teh NDP voters, the poor, the unionized and Crown employees, Aboriginals, are hardly leaving at all. real Taxpayers are leaving.
And mj, remember 10 years ago: AB had teh same debt as SK: now they have no debt and way more people: we have more debt and fewer people; only you NDP could F-up the god-given benefits that SK was given, jsut like you F'ed up Russia and Cuba and N Korea. thanks alot.

You socialists have also F'ed up every Reserve in Canada: way to go, you misguided fools.

ok4ua and maryjane...

As a right-leaning, younger (37) small business owner, I'd like to hear you say to me..."under another NDP majority administration in 2007, Saskatchewan will continue to perform beyond expectations into the next few years".

The reason I'd like to hear this is for one reason. It would prove that you two have not paid much attention to what's happening outside of your government offices.

Pundits say that Saskatchewan is performing admirably. I'm not sure if I was an MLA that I would be "happy" with continued population loss, 4 to 33-year wait times for many post-secondary programs in our applied sciences institutions or the fact that, despite $75/barrel oil, your party's job creation record is dismal. These are supposed to be the best of times but we have a party with absolutely no clue where it is going to take us. Compared to the early 90s under Romanow, the bench strength Calvert has at his disposal is brutal.

Romanow: Lingenfelter, McKinnon, Axworthy, Goulet
Calvert: Higgins, Atkinson, Forbes, Lautermilch

Also ok4ua...before speaking about Spudco, I suggest you actually talk to some of the investors (not all farmers, either, trust me) before you say they got a good deal. Lautermilch lied...and at the end of the day, the potato industry in Saskatchewan was set back some 20 to 30 years. Don't believe me? My neighbour, who was one of the biggest NDPers this side of the eugenics lab in Weyburn, invested everything he had because "my boys in Regina know a good thing when they see it". Almost one year to the day after Spudco was officially wound down (actually, it morphed into another entity under a different name for awhile) this very same neighbour put a lawn sign up that read:

GOT SCREWED BY MY OWN PARTY.
VOTE NDP?
NEVER AGAIN.
BASTARDS.

Beside the text (to the left, of course) was a caracature of Mr. Potatoehead with Lorne Calvert's face.

The NDP have proven they will knowingly screw their own if it means staying in power a little longer. Talk about being a scary party...if the NDP stay in we're all going to be wards of the State, forced to make licence plates and eating cat food to survive!

One more thought just occurred to me. If, as Rev. Lovejoy proudly declares, "No one gets left behind", does this mean:

a) the use of the word "left" is used for subliminal purposes?
b) that everyone will have their standard of living lowered to meet those who have no ambition to do anything in order to make it appear they government is doing something good?
c) SaskPower will install a master breaker on the last power pole at Alsask so as to promote a Green & Prosperous Economy?

If you answered yes to "B", make your vote count and get rid of these clowns before all we have left are chrome domes and leftist whackos.

If you took "A" and "C" seriously and you feel compelled to spew more socialist drabble, do us all a favour and just end it now. Remember kids, it's "down the block", not "across the street".

Drabble???

I don't believe Alberta had debt.I think that was a big lie. I wonder if anyone would open the books and jail the crooks in Alberta? Did any MLA's get money they weren't supposed to get or the same with buisnesses? I wonder what really happened to all the oil money? Keep up with the doom and gloom and you'll really attract voters. How anyone who gets a T-4 could vote tory is beyond me. It's easier to vote Tory than to think.

Mr ok, AB had over 10 billion debt in the early 90's.
And I think that you are an old civil servant, meaning that you are a net tax taker, not contributor.
I also that you are too set in your ways, there is no reasoning with you: and face it, you're full of envy and jealousy.
I also think that you suffer from cognative dissonance, that's the only explanation how you fail to see what a mess your dipper friends/bosses are making.

Bushman....Sk had over $14 billion debt after the debacle of a decade of conservative governance.
Or almost 4x the per capita debt of AB.
I believe you are a farmer , meaning you have your face firmly planted in the public trough. Doesn't that embarass you.

If the farm brats in the SaskaTory party get in anyone besides civil servants who has a T-4 will have a rough time. Look at the SaskParty caucus...................they're all farmers helping farmers(50,000). There are 480,000 working stiffs in Sask and the Saskparty ignores them. Why should we vote for a repressive party like that. You are sexist,homophobic,racist,Waspy party who scream at the government because you have no solutions for anything. You call the NDP crooks because you're ashamed of your parties roots in the PC party. You will try to rewrite history just like Earnest Zundel did. You're border line Facists and you remind me of Nazi germans. You're rich farmers who don't give a damn about anyone but you. You farm brats,and I know a few look down on Natives and and people on welfare and you hold your hands out for cash. You are worst than welfare you're the idle rich. The Tories paid farmers in the 80's more than they made farming and you think this policy should still be in place. The more the Saskparty says we're different the more I know they're not.
You're still peed off because your leaders ended up in jail. You are envious because you have delusions of grandure. The Sakatory party does not want to share the wealth. They and their farm buddies want it all.

Mr.Bush I think you are a graduate of some community or vocational Bible College and are either unemployed or in a job you find below you.
I make 42,000.00 gross a year my wife makes 44,000.00 a year gross. I have 2 years left til retirement my wife has 3 years left. We don't waste our money and make out ok. I can't get on TV and blame the Governmet for bad weather or bad crops. I got a 2% raise last year. What did most successful farmers gross per year on average for the last 5 years? That's a big secret. A farmer made 300,000.00 last year and only made 250,000.00 this year so he lost 50,000.00. Right!!!!??? Most farmers lose more money than most of us make???? Most working stiffs have gone without a decent raise for 20 years. But who cares??? The news media and the TV puts the farmers and buisnessmen in the spotlight. The cost of living high is catching up to these parasites of society. My Dad could not leave me a legacy to guarantee anything but you rich farmers always have enough to bail your kids out over nd over again. And guess what????? You're still want more. I'd be ashamed of myself if I was you,on TV begging for more and you criticize the Natives ,workers and the poor. If I had your assets I'd give mine to charity. The NDP cater to you but you want 115.00 an acre for bad weather. It isn't the NDP's fault the weathers bad. Go ask all the Tory MP's you voted in to help you. Some of my family farmed and in good times they banked for hard times. The world price for grains is not the NDP's or my fault. Maybe some of you should get a second job off the farm and quit begging for handouts. You are 8% of the GNP in Sask. Not big players anymore, working peoples taxes and wages are much more, Mining,Lumber,manufacturing,oil and gas bury you 10 times over. You used to be a big player but not for over 40 or 50 years. And you know what you can't stand that.

1) I'm not a farmer, I'm a born and raised city boy:

2) Tories where way before my time;

3) I blame you socialists for much of the poverty that we see in SK: and we have too much poverty when we should be a rich province. I blame you NDP civil servants and politicians for being selfish and for supressing the poor while simultaneously attacking the rich: I know that your dippers are making things worse for everyone except your pathetic selves;
you are all about fear and envy and hate: and you are Now Destroying a Province.

Did you read the Leader Post today? We're not poor anymore we're in a job and building boom. Where have you been for the last 4 years? We have the 2nd lowest unemployment rate and 5000 new jobs created in the last year. If you are not part of the solution then you are the problem not the gov't. I think you either don't know what's going on or don't want to know. Which is it? You and the SaskaTory party live a lie.

We are underperforming when compared to all other Western provinces: we are creating far fewer jobs than Manitoba, never mind AB and BC; mediocre is not good enough. AB can create almost 100,000 jobs, and you dare to crow about 5,000? With SK's many benefits, we shoudl be doing much better; you old socialists are holding us back!

We can't compete on a level playing field with either Alberta or B.C. Who else can? We as a province are just getting on our feet after 10 lost and expensive years under the Tories. I live well with my family on our salaries I couldn't do the same in B.C. or Alberta niether would you Mr.Bush. Most people who want to work in Sask are working. That was a latest stat I read. How much better will it get? I don't know. But I know how bad it can get under a Tory or SaskaTory party. I've seen it all before. It will be bad for the people and I mean people who have a T-4.

ok, it's been what, 15 years since Devine was in power? get over it, you old fool! And BC recently had a dipper gov, but after a few years of you crazy socialists, they have Campbell in there, and their economy is recovering nicely!
Mr ok, be honest! You know that the 80's was marked by drought and high interest rates and low resource prices: you know Devine's been gone for 15 years: be honest! you should know that many young families are moving from SK to Ab and BC (I know becasue they are friends and peers of mine!) OK, STOP LYING TO YORUSELF AND TO US ALL:
You socialists have f'ed up the SK economy, and have no-one to blame but yoruselves!
p.s: you exibit very cute fear of AB and BC! And very cute envy of businesses and farmers! It would be funny if you dorks didn;t do so much damage to Saskatchewan!

We're in a boom stupid. Where the hell have you been? Why do you feel sorry for the top 10% of wealthy people? Are you a wanna be? Do you think by kissing their asses you'll get wealthy? Get your head out of your ass and look around. We are a have province so why would I vote Tory? They are too narrow in their beliefs. You do not know much. Open market helps no one but the bigger buisnesses. Wait till they get rid of the wheat board. You have to remember that the Ammerican farmers are subsidised. Now what happens when the bottom falls out in grain prices. Do the farmers expect the people of Canada bail them out after all you want an open market and you make go broke with your open market. America figures the wheat boards a subsidy so think on this awhile. I for one will not support moneys going to farmers who opt out.

We are a have province only becasue of high oil, gas and uranium prices.
Freedom is good;
socialists are bad. Fear is bad. Envy is bad. Over-regulation and taxation is bad. The NDP are bad. Old civil servants that are stubborn and not very bright are bad.