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June 19, 2006

Myths and the US Military

Combat Jump Star has a synopsis of common myths about the US military. For those who don’t know CJS, he’s a duel citizen of Canada and the United States and has served 2 tours in Afghanistan and 1 in Iraq with the 82nd Airborne…. ( I dare you to tell him that the 82nd is the “little sister” of the 101st). Check out his debunking of some common myths; myths by the way, that are MSM or Leftist boilerplate:

1. All or most soldiers are rednecks from the South.

2. Minorities are being used as "cannon fodder" on the front lines.

3. Soldiers are uneducated, or less educated than their peers outside the Military

4. Recruiting is down

Cross-posted at Celestial Junk

Posted by at June 19, 2006 7:20 PM
Comments

In my opinion,the wests military forces are among the best educated in the history of warfare.While there will always be the odd duck that just makes his way on fumes, the vast majority are highly trained and highly motivated.In this era of the electronic battlefield,you just can't afford to take on anyone that has less than a grade 12 education,and indeed,the CAF turns away many with just those credentials..

Posted by: kursk at June 19, 2006 8:12 PM

In my opinion,the wests military forces are among the best educated in the history of warfare.While there will always be the odd duck that just makes his way on fumes, the vast majority are highly trained and highly motivated.In this era of the electronic battlefield,you just can't afford to take on anyone that has less than a grade 12 education,and indeed,the CAF turns away many with just those credentials..

Posted by: kursk at June 19, 2006 8:13 PM

He's a duel citizen? Who's he fighting with

Posted by: phlurb bronk at June 19, 2006 8:33 PM

Regarding the first three, they seem more like parodies of more reasonable statements. Regardless, if they really are "boiler-plate" it should be too difficult to pull up a quote of a well-known and well-regarded MSM personality, show, etc. Can someone find such a quote? I'm skeptical.

As for four, they turned around their recruitment problems a year ago and have been meeting goals since then. The MSM was all over it at the time, but so far as I've been able to find, they are not continuing to claim that there are recruitment difficulties. Again, if this is boiler-plate then there should be lots of it.

Posted by: Ted L. Nancy at June 19, 2006 8:38 PM

Can someone find such a quote?

You find it. Try Google, Wikipedia, or Lexus/Nexus, whatever it takes. Then, without looking like an idiot, you can utter "they seem more like parodies of more reasonable statements" with some factual authority.

Posted by: penny at June 19, 2006 8:49 PM

Phlurb bronk: "duel citizen" good moniker for a soldier.

Posted by: rebarbarian at June 19, 2006 9:16 PM

The Axis Of Evil:


Iran, Iraq and .... North Korea. ...-


4 Carriers in Pacific Area(the highest tension since '76 ax-murder?)
06/19/06

Posted on 06/19/2006 3:56:54 PM PDT by TigerLikesRooster

US Navy

as of
June 19, 2006

Carriers:
USS Kitty Hawk (CV 63) - Philippine Sea
USS Abraham Lincoln (CVN 72) - Philippine Sea
USS John C. Stennis (CVN 74) - Pacific Ocean
USS Ronald Reagan (CVN 76) - Philippine Sea

The largest firepower since Viet Nam War is said to be assembled off Guam for naval exercise.

Pentagon also strongly indicated that the launch would be considered hostile and U.S. will intercept it.

It seems that U.S.-N. Korea tension is highest since the ax-murder incident at Panmunjum in '76. ...- freerepublic

Posted by: maz2 at June 19, 2006 9:21 PM

phlurb bronk: Take a guess. 82nd Airborne. No reference to royalty. Duh. Wuss.

Posted by: Doug at June 19, 2006 9:24 PM

Thanks Doug for clearing that up, but I take great offence to the tone of your comments. I challenge you to a dual.

Posted by: phlurb bronk at June 19, 2006 9:37 PM

For those interested, they have fascinating official websites for both the 82nd and 101st Airborne Divisions.

The 82nd is at http://www.bragg.army.mil/82dv/

The 101st is at http://www.campbell.army.mil/division.htm

Posted by: Dave at June 19, 2006 9:39 PM

I have to first say thank you for the help Penny. I don't really like to spoon feed people either, but what the hell? I'm sure Ted didn't even bother to read what I wrote, since if he did, he would see that the the military has actually made it's goal as a whole every year since 9/11. In fact, the only time a service didn't meet or exceed it's goal was in 2005, when the Army upped it's goal of the previous year of 77,000 soldiers(which they exceeded by nearly 600)to 80,000 soldiers. Other than that, mission has been made every year, and the other 3 major services met or exceeded their goal EVERY year since 9/11. And retention is at and all time high right now, and again, has been since 9/11.

As far as the others, well here you go. Robert Scheer said on National Public Radio that "immigrants have served as cannon fodder for an imperial war." Scheer wrote a weekly column for the Los Angeles Times for over 20 years, and now has a syndicated column in the San Fransisco Chronicle. He is very far left. He's also supposedly an "expert" on security matters. Clearly, he isn't.

I can kill the other two with one quote. In his commencement address at Rockford College, New York Times reporter Chris Hedges described soldiers as "poor kids from Mississippi or Alabama or Texas who could not get a decent job or health insurance and joined the Army because it was all we offered them." So we have the southern thing, and they're apparently uneducated if they can't get a job.

Not only that, if you had actually read what I wrote, you will see that I said the MSM has advanced these myths as truth on occasion, but what I was mostly referring to was your average joe anti war Sally Socialist on the street. And if you've never heard anyone say these things, or read them anywhere(hell, I bet you could go over to Daily KOSsak right now and find exactly what I'm talking about somewhere at this very moment) then you've been living in a bubble since oh, I don't know, 1955?

Posted by: Combat Jump Star at June 19, 2006 9:50 PM

None of these observations/stats by Combat Jump Star really surprise me. The thing is: How do you get the moonbats and the MSM to "wake up to reality"?

Lying and misrepresenting the facts never seem to be an obstacle to either of them.

Posted by: new kid on the block at June 19, 2006 10:05 PM

Dearest Penny,

I have indeed searched for people in the MSM making such statements, and I cannot find any such quote. Which I suspected was the case when I originally posted.

I suppose it could be because I'm not very good at searching, but if something is "boiler-plate" that suggests to me it should be relatively easy to find examples. That I can't, suggests that it is in fact not "boiler-plate".

I further suggests that the belief that it is "boiler-plate" is mistaken.

Faithfully yours,

Posted by: Ted L. Nancy at June 19, 2006 10:07 PM

Combat Jump Star:

"I'm sure Ted didn't even bother to read what I wrote, since if he did, he would see that the the military has actually made it's goal as a whole every year since 9/11. In fact, the only time a service didn't meet or exceed it's goal was in 2005, when the Army upped it's goal of the previous year of 77,000 soldiers(which they exceeded by nearly 600)to 80,000 soldiers. Other than that, mission has been made every year, and the other 3 major services met or exceeded their goal EVERY year since 9/11. And retention is at and all time high right now, and again, has been since 9/11."

I did read what you wrote Combat. I'm aware of the Military's record in meeting recruitment goals. I don't dispute it.

Combat Jump Star:



Not only that, if you had actually read what I wrote, you will see that I said the MSM has advanced these myths as truth on occasion, but what I was mostly referring to was your average joe anti war Sally Socialist on the street. And if you've never heard anyone say these things, or read them anywhere(hell, I bet you could go over to Daily KOSsak right now and find exactly what I'm talking about somewhere at this very moment) then you've been living in a bubble since oh, I don't know, 1955?

I'd agree with you then, that the media has advanced these myths as facts on occasion. What I was disagreeing with was Kate's description of them as "boiler-plate" talking points. And yes, there are people saying these sorts of things (and far stupider), and it wouldn't be hard to find them. But I disagreed with Kate's portrayal of these four myths as the "boiler-plate" scripts of the MSM.

Best wishes,

Posted by: Ted L. Nancy at June 19, 2006 11:06 PM

phlurb bronk: lol!

I except your challenge.

Posted by: Doug at June 19, 2006 11:28 PM

Ted: The MSM advances a theory as fact, then when it is proven wrong, they do not retract with anything near the fanfare they advanced the theory in the first place. This is a standard MSM trick which is used to create false realities. All you have to do is run one or two strong headlines... then walk away from it when they are proven wrong. That, is how MSM and Lefty boilerplate are created. It's not from constant flogging... its from subtle recreation of facts.

Every single "myth" that CJS spoke of, has been hit on either in the MSM or othe New Media (and he missed the MSM claim of high suicide rates in the military); then, when proven wrong, there are never clear retractions. And that, is how boilerplate is created in the population. It's what the MSM in particular does so well. If you are looking for 10,000 headlines you will never find them. Ask a lefty what they believe to be fact, and you'll get the "boilerplate" picture.

Take Haditha for instance. The marines involved are being treated as guilty. The MSM has advanced scores of reports from... "unnamed" sources to create that impression. Yet, if and when these men are cleared, there'll be one quick burst of corrective news, and then tons of double checking, doubting, and counter spin.

The MSM is diabolical in this way. It is subtle. It is dishonest. And it is the way it operates as a propoganda arm of "progressive", "socialist", and "utopian" ideology.

Posted by: Debris Trail at June 19, 2006 11:36 PM

Ted:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlPC3Ni_fCc&search=belzer

This MSM enough for you? Listen to Belzer's wonderful synopsis of the troops. Nope he sure thinks they are all smart.

Posted by: Bagadonitz at June 19, 2006 11:45 PM

I agree about education. The population is better educated than ever.
I disagree about recruitment goals. I have seen several reports about the difficulties in recruiting. In an unprecendented move the military ordered that retired soldiers be called up. Those facts together with the reality that many are serving, some willingly, some not, three times. Some are bribed with money.

The military says they are meeting their goals but they are probably lying or setting low achieveable numbers. I don't see how anyone can trust Rumsfeldian truthiness after all these lying years.


Posted by: steve d. at June 19, 2006 11:47 PM

This mainstream enough for you:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlPC3Ni_fCc&search=belzer

Belzer really seems to think the troops are brilliant. He reads 20 papers a day don't ya know!

(Double posted to try and get around a filters in a timely fashion)

Posted by: Bagadonitz at June 19, 2006 11:47 PM

You want to see a MSM bias of how they think the troops are dumb. Search YouTube for Belzer. Watch the first clip in the search that is returned.

You see he reads 20 papers a day sitting on the set and thus knows more about the war in Iraq then the dumb soldiers that are there.

Posted by: Bagadonitz at June 19, 2006 11:49 PM

"I don't see how anyone can trust Rumsfeld..."

Zzzzzzzzzzz.

"I have seen several reports..."

Go back to the circle jerk at Kos and Indymedia where you get your twisted data.

Oh that's right, you spend all your time here because this is where you get the real hard truth.

Posted by: Doug at June 19, 2006 11:57 PM

Seems you guys are talkig about some different military. If you go to ones that support millitary people you'll see that last years they army missed its goal by 7000.

"We have met the active Army's monthly recruiting goals since June, and we expect to meet it for September, which sends us into fiscal year 2006 on a winning streak," Hilferty said. He also noted that the Army has managed to meet its re-enlistment goals, even among units that have been deployed in Iraq and Afghanistan.

But there are compelling reasons to think that Army recruiters are heading into a second consecutive year of recruiting shortfalls.
http://www.military.com/NewsContent/0,13319,77951,00.html?ESRC=eb.nl

Posted by: neutralsam at June 20, 2006 12:12 AM

steve, no offense, but do you ever actually check any of your facts before posting? I guess we'll go point by point.

First, you may have seen reports about difficulty in recruiting. That's the whole point of the post. It's not true, it's a myth. The military isn't lowering their recruiting numbers, they're raising them, as I pointed out. In 2005 the Army changed it's goal from 77,000 the previous year to 80,000 in 2005. Certainly, there have been months when goals weren't met. But overall, enlistment goals have been met or exceeded every year since 9/11. Retention is also through the roof. The numbers I cited in my post do not come through official military docs. They come from independent studies.

Second, it's not an "unprecedented move" to call back retired soldiers. Retired officers and senior enlisted personnel can be called back during time of war. This has been Military policy for ages and has been going on as far back as the Korean conflict. Retired officers are called back all the time. If you mean soldiers getting out and being recalled, that has also been Military policy and has been going on for a long time. Every soldier has a minimum 8 year committment to the military. If you sign up for 4, and you get out, you still have a committment of 4 more years in the Inactive Ready Reserve, or IRR. Meaning until that next 4 years is up, you can be called back at any time. This is also nothing new, as it was done during the first Gulf War.

Not sure what you mean by some willingly, some not, three times? You lost me there, I'm going to need an explanation on that one. Anybody know what he means?

As for some are bribed with money, it's called an enlistment bonus, or reenlistment bonus. It's not a bribe. First of all, the reelistment bonuses are lower than they ever have been. Some job specialties aren't even being given cash bonuses anymore. Further, it's not just money. Some common enlistment bonuses are $50,000 for college, and only for college duty station of your choice, such as Italy(not now), Unit of your choice, schools of your choice etc. Other reenlistment bonuses are 1 year in college, 1 semester in college, going to the military school of your choice, such as Ranger school, Sniper school, Air Assault school, etc. I'm sorry, but these aren't bribes. Just like the other things you mentioned, these are practices that have been going on since at least the mid 70's. And basically, you just proved the point of my post. Myths that are being advanced by people, and then other people eat them up and believe them, and they grow, until people actually accept them as truth. They are not truth, not even in the lossest definition of the word. And I find it reprehensible that people like you continue to advance these lies without first bothering to check the facts.

Posted by: Combat Jump Star at June 20, 2006 12:25 AM

Debris: Excellent post, thank you for that. I agree with you that its a real failing of the MSM. Another example is the recent Iran and Jewish Badges story, whereby the initial report of Jews going to have to wear identification was loudly trumpeted and then clarifications less loudly, and finally the refutation was barely a whimper. I believe its just a general problem/reason why the MSM sucks so hard and does such a bad job of informing people. I don't tend to view it as a left/right thing, since I see lots of examples that go both ways.

Best wishes,

Posted by: Ted L. Nancy at June 20, 2006 12:26 AM

The Army has not published official figures yet, but it apparently finished the 12-month counting period that ends Friday with about 73,000 recruits. Its goal was 80,000. A gap of 7,000 enlistees would be the largest - in absolute number as well as in percentage terms - since 1979, according to Army records.

The Army National Guard and the Army Reserve, which are smaller than the regular Army, had even worse results.

The active-duty Army had not missed its target since 1999, when it was 6,290 recruits short; in 1998 it fell short by 801, and in 1995 it was off by 33. Prior to that the last shortfall was in 1979 when the Army missed by 17,054 during a period when the Army was much bigger and its recruiting goals were double today's.

Army officials knew at the outset that 2005 would be a tough year to snag new recruits. By May it was obvious that after four consecutive months of coming up short there was little chance of meeting the full-year goal.
Check it out at www.Military.com

Also if you join the US
In July of 2005, DoD and the Services briefed this commission on the Defense Disability Evaluation System. I would like to take exception to some key points from these briefings and illuminate other DES issues as well.
First, the briefs stated that one of the purposes of the DES was to compensate careers cut short by service-connected disabilities. Nothing could be further from the truth.
Military disability compensation does nothing of the sort. It is an illusion. Under current law, service members with unfitting disabilities rated under 30% are separated vice retired. They are given separation pay based on their grade and years of service. However, their DoD separation pay is, by law, recovered by the VA before VA disability compensation is paid. This DoD "career compensation" is nothing more than an advance on their VA disability pay. An E-1 with one year of service and a E-8 with 18 years of service, separated with the same disability rating, will get the same amount of compensation - The only difference is who is paying it and when. In fact, one can argue that the E-1 will get more cash on the barrelhead as he or she will likely be younger and collect for many more years.

Likewise, few Chapter 61 disability retirees will actually get any career compensation, limited mostly to those who have qualified for retirement from years of service. Ironically, under current law, a 15 year TERA retiree can get both career and disability compensation, but an 18 year vet separated or retired for a combat injury cannot.

Thats one of the reasons people aren't signing up.

Posted by: neutralsam at June 20, 2006 12:43 AM

You trust the numbers. I don't. A lot of people are not believing anything coming out of that administration.
In the last Gulf War only Medical personel were called back. Calling back people in their 40's and 50's is more than a little revealing about how difficult a time they have recruiting. If they can't find a few hundred thousand out of three hundred million I would say there is a problem.
They are bribed to return two or three times and some are merely ordered back. Apparently when you sign up, they can keep you if they say they need you.
Yes, the education is both in the service and after the service is a bribe of sorts. It is certainly an enticement. Enticement is a fancy word for bribe. Okay, you are correct its not JUST the money, it other things too...
The NYT today has an article about how many are using the Navy's free laser eye surgery and probably other expensive medical proceedures as a perk not to be missed. Another enticement.
Still, they have to call up old men and now high school dropouts and I guess anybody else with a pulse(except upper class chickenhawk children,they are apparently too busy to serve).

Posted by: steve d. at June 20, 2006 12:46 AM

Capt.dan can help everyone with nice pics of the country.

http://www.milblogging.com/listingDetail.php?id=1388

A-bad is one of those bases tucked in the mountains, seeming like it would be a cool retreat if not getting rocketed on a regular basis. As a matter of fact, just before we flew from there to start the op, a rocket intended for the base struck a school in town - tragically, during their recess. The despicable attack killed 11 children and wounded over a dozen others, who were rushed to the base for immediate medical attention, saving some who were in really bad shape. The medics and docs on hand were incredible that day.

which is true.

Posted by: neutralsam at June 20, 2006 1:05 AM

As I pointed out in my above post sam, you are correct, the Army did not make it's mission in 2005. I believe they ended up with just over 75,000 recruits. However, the Military as a whole made their recruitment goals in 2005, with the Marine Corps, Navy, and Airforce making up the difference. As I said(or did I?), the active duty Military has made their goal every year. As of March 2006, every active duty service has either met or exceeded their goals.

As far as disability goes, I'll admit, it's somewhat messed up. But apparently people are signing up, and as I said, staying in, as retention is quite good.

Steve,
Between 93 and 95% of military personnel have a high school diploma, compared to about 75% of their civilian contemporaries. The Military has exceeded 90% since 1983.

The Military is solidly middle class. In fact, in recent years there has been a slight increase from upper class groups.

Anybody with a pulse? In fact, fully half of todays youth 18-24 are physically disqualified from joining the Military, mostly because of being a fat.

Fine, don't trust the numbers. I can tell you we had no problem filling our division to well over full strength last year.

Again, recalling people is nothing new. It's been happening since the Korean war. If these people didn't know they could be recalled, they should have read their contract a little closer. That's their fault, not the militaries. And as far as people being recalled, as far as I know, none of them are combat arms. They're truck drivers etc. It's called a time of war. Normally you need more bodies. Do you think people would prefer to be drafted?

Old men? 40 and 50 years old is old? Not in my opinion.

If you want to call it a bribe fine. It's not, but fine. So what you're saying is people shouldn't take what's offered to them? If you could get free laser eye surgery, and you needed it, why wouldn't you? What kind of a moron would turn that down? So people should be given nothing for enlisting or reenlisting? Like a college scholarship is a bribe to attend school, or go to that specific school? So basically, anybonus of any sort ever, is a bribe. Well christ people, you heard it here first. You better not take any of those year end bonuses or anything. If your company has a health plan, better not use it, it's a bribe etc, etc, etc, ad infinitum. Christ steve, I mean, at least even though neutralsam is clearly anti american, at least he brings up decent points. Yours are just anti american talking points of the far left. Seriously, could you be more of a parrot?


Posted by: Combat Jump Star at June 20, 2006 1:17 AM

Delete that other post CJS as this is a better spot to view afghanistan.
afghanidan.blogspot..com

Posted by: neutralsam at June 20, 2006 1:22 AM

[12:00] *****Session Opened.*****
[12:01] Hello Steve d.,

[12:01] My name is Ted from Moonbat support. I hear you're having some problems?

[12:02] Steve d. thank you yes, I can't convince these idiots that the military's re-enlistment bonus is a bribe. Or that enticement is a fancy word for bribe.

[12:03] Alright Steve d. let's see what we can do for you...

[12:05] I checked out enticement Steve d., and it turns out, it's not a fancy name for bribe after all. It's actually "something which makes people want to do a particular thing." Or "something that seduces or has the quality to seduce".

[12:07] I checked out bribe Steve d., and found that it's "payment made to a person in a position of trust to corrupt his judgment" OR "make illegal payments to in exchange for favors or payment made to a person in a position of trust to corrupt his judgment" OR "make illegal payments to in exchange for favors".

[12:08] Not quite sure where you went wrong Steve d., but a part of your trouble convincing them may be due to the fact that you're wrong?

[12:34] Steve d. I'll give you a dollar to tell me I'm right...

[12:35] Sorry, I couldn't be more help Steve d.

[12:36] Thank you for using Moonbat support Steve d.

[12:36] *****Session Closed.*****

Posted by: Ted L. Nancy at June 20, 2006 1:29 AM

afghanidan's site is quite good sam. He's always got some good pics. And you know me, big dumb soldier, I's a be needin' muh pictah's for thu lurnin' hyuck.

Posted by: Combat Jump Star at June 20, 2006 1:32 AM

I'm in the military, and yes, recruiting numbers are good. But that's because a lot of these kids are attracted by the financial opportunities.

Think about it. Sure, it's never true that ALL soldiers from southern rednecks. But the fact is, to join the military, one must make a certain peace with the foreign policy one is sent in to enforce. And who better than a native son of the heavily-Republican South?

To every generalization, there is a grain of truth.

Posted by: Freeman at June 20, 2006 1:33 AM

Certainly, but nonetheless, there are actually more soldiers from the North and West than from the South and Southwest in the Military. What unit you with freeman?

Posted by: Combat Jump Star at June 20, 2006 1:36 AM

So if there are no US armed forces numbers problems, why are they need reserves to ship from the arctic to the desert for the first time in 60 years? There to hunt for insurgents instead of their accustomed quarry of ummm... mink and other sda.

You know there's a problem when they can't even scrape up enough rednecks to git 'er done.

Posted by: Arbee at June 20, 2006 2:30 AM

LOL

Me too, here's a young afghanis blog he likes taking pics. No war pics
afghanlord.blogspot.com

AUTHOR: Sohrab Kabuli, aged 23. I born in the land of pains & injustice. Whatever i want for myself, i wish for others. I write from Kabul, What i see & what i hear from. I like freedom & independent in media no threats and intimidation. I want to highlight the problems of society in an independent manner, without fear and favor to any group or political interest. I will also write foreign political interests in Afghanistan. I also put picture here. So I want from you to express your own idea!

Posted by: neutralsam at June 20, 2006 2:40 AM

There are elitists in the U.S. armed forces. Only the well connected are accepted at West Point, Annapolis or the USAF Academy in Colorado. The other rout would be OCS or R.O.T.C. Thank God the U.S. armed forces has an exceptional NCO Corps. This offsets the inexperience of any Butterbar!

Posted by: theo at June 20, 2006 7:24 AM

Theo, you need a sock in the mouth! I am a U.S. Army officer and comments like yours are B.S. You obviously know nothing of the U.S. military. I am not an uneducated red-neck, poor black or illegal hispanic.

Posted by: S. Baker at June 20, 2006 8:25 AM

Steve D is the resident fool. It matters not what you say as he will continue to stare into the sun despite all warnings.
enough

Posted by: enough at June 20, 2006 9:36 AM

steve d. has a 2% slump.

Posted by: concrete at June 20, 2006 10:04 AM

Theo, you said:

"There are elitists in the U.S. armed forces. Only the well connected are accepted at West Point, Annapolis or the USAF Academy in Colorado. The other rout would be OCS or R.O.T.C. Thank God the U.S. armed forces has an exceptional NCO Corps. This offsets the inexperience of any Butterbar!"

I'll agree with you on the quality of the American NCO corps....

...but to say that the officers are "elitist" is nonsense. West point and the other service universities are amoung the best examples possible of pure meritocracy. Only 9% of those who apply get in (more selective than, say, Harvard) and they are free, which means that they can accept people from a broad strata of society.

As for the army offering "bribes" like free education, I think a better word for it is "opportunity".

Posted by: GM at June 20, 2006 10:34 AM

So many lemmings,
so few pre-emptive wars.
Even Mark Steyn says Iraq is not about terrorism. We are on to excuse number 86, oh yeah its about radical Islam(this week).
Afghanistan, which was in the throes of civil war,Taliban vs Northern Alliance, had a visitor, Al Queda. What a surprise, a weak state housing a terrorist. The American response--invade. When in doubt invade. When things don't go your way--invade. How do you spell gullible? conservative.
A bribe is a payment made to a person in a position of trust(soldier), to corrupt his judgment. If he were thinking clearly he would certainly not participate in an illegal war or occupation of an innocent foreign country. Remember when sovereignty meant something? I thought illegal invasions brought on the rath of the UN? Remember how fast they acted when Saddam pre-emtively attacked Kuwait?

Posted by: steve d. at June 20, 2006 10:43 AM

steve d. - Step back slowly from the Kool-Aid. Keep your hand in plain sight.

Posted by: MCPO Airdale at June 20, 2006 11:44 AM

hey steve d.

The bodies of the two captured American servicemen were found in Iraq.

What about their legal status as POWs?

Where is the rath? /sic

Thanks Combat Jump Star for all your hard work and effort in the service of your country.

Canada and the USA are linked forever through our families and traditions and our shared sorrows and triumphs in war.

IMHO the likes of steve d. and neutralsam, through their constant efforts to undermine their own governments and military goals, lend support to the enemy.

In our system that is their right.

But their prioritys are ALWAYS anti-American.

They are not neutral or anti-war.

Their positions lend help to the other side.


Posted by: concrete at June 20, 2006 12:06 PM

US activates missile defense amid N. Korea concern
Posted by 300magnum
On 06/20/2006 9:12:39 AM PDT · 20 replies · 545+ views

Reuters ^ | Will Dunham
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The United States has activated its ground-based interceptor missile-defense system amid concerns over an expected North Korean missile launch, a U.S. defense official said on Tuesday. The official, speaking on condition of anonymity, confirmed a Washington Times report that the Pentagon has switched the multibillion-dollar system from test mode to operational, after being in the developmental stage for years. "It's good to be ready," the official said. Asked whether the United States would try to shoot down a North Korean missile, Pentagon press secretary Eric Ruff declined to answer directly. "We have a limited missile defense system,"...
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1652483/posts

Posted by: maz2 at June 20, 2006 12:51 PM

Hi Steve,

With all due respect, let's drop the bogus "legal/illegal" distinction. The U.N. authorizes actions that it's member states view as being in their interest. Period. To suggest that there is any principle behind the decisions is wishful thinking.
Any unalterable results are usually recognized and de facto legalized afterwards anyway.

"The strong do what they can and the weak bear what they must".... It has always been so.

If you want a debate about the merits of going into Iraq as a strategic choice, I invite it. But let's not pretend that "legality" is the proper litmus test.

Posted by: GM at June 20, 2006 2:28 PM

Steve D said- "If he were thinking clearly he would certainly not participate in an illegal war or occupation of an innocent foreign country"

Unfortunately steve, this assumes that everyone just believes the left wing talking points like you. Sorry to tell you, The UN doesn't make foreign policy for the US, and Canada shouldn't let them make policy for them either.

Posted by: Combat Jump Star at June 20, 2006 3:54 PM

We are no better than Saddam. He pre-emptively invaded and so did we. Doesn't it feel good to be on the same moral low ground as the enemy?
There are no good guys. There are only winners and losers. Each side does whatever they think they have to. At least the world knows the rule is that there are no rules. Might is right. Period. Morality is an outdated concept. It is inoperative and irrelevant except to use as propaganda of course.

Posted by: steve d. at June 20, 2006 6:09 PM

Japan on High Alert Japan on High Alert


Japan on high alert over N Korea threat
Posted by Flavius
On 06/20/2006 3:13:27 PM PDT · 7 replies · 187+ views

ft ^ | June 20 2006 | David Pilling in Tokyo
Japan was on a state of high alert on Tuesday night following a warning from a senior North Korean official that Pyongyang would not be bound by a 2002 agreement to refrain from testing missiles capable of hitting Japan. The threat, from a North Korean foreign ministry official, comes after days of escalating tension prompted by evidence that Pyongyang is preparing to test a missile that could reach Japan and parts of continental US. Ri Pyong Dok, a North Korean foreign ministry official responsible for Japan, told Japanese journalists in Pyongyang, Kyodo news reported, that a long-range missile test launch...
freerepublic

Posted by: maz2 at June 20, 2006 7:00 PM

June:

I served in a fronline unit in Korea. Most of the officers, in my regiment, were West Point. They dogged the ROTC guys worse than the enlisted. Case in point: we had one ROTC, who kept on screwing up, drunk on leave and so forth. His tour was extened for a year for the purpose of being dogged out He simply told the West Pointers, in no uncertain terms, what they could do with his commission. He was happier being enlisted anyhow. 10 years later we are in the reserves and run into each other at drill. Go figure. One has to be very well connected to get into any academy, and the products produced are the officer corps elite.

Posted by: Theo at June 21, 2006 12:04 AM

2LT Baker, in severe need of an article 32 investigation: does 9th Regiment Manchu, Injin Gok Po, ROK, register with you? I will take any West Pointer over ROTC any day and you are certainly no Manchu. It would be interesting if you could survive a tour on the D, but then again anything is possible. "KEEP UP THE FIRE"

Posted by: Theo at June 21, 2006 1:31 AM

2LT Baker:

How did ethnic or racial background get into this? I did not imply nor bring it up. Seeing you brought geography into this, with your snippy tounge, and wanabee Prussian bearing, I would bet you are from the tri state area, even though you are of English descent. Does this settle the ethnic/geographical issue for you? Based on your hairline trigger and bringing up the ethnic issue, I would be very suprised if you made it past company grade without an EEO complaint, letter of reprimand or Field Grade Article 15, but, as we all know, officers cover each other and UCMJ screws the enlisted. I have no doubt you are very well connected. Before you go off on another tangent, lack of technical expertise, or work ethic, on your part, is not implyed. "KEEP UP THE FIRE"

P.S. How the devil did someone with your hairline trigger and temper ever survive an SBI without being classified as a security risk? Perhaps you had a good 71L10 fill out your SF 86 for you. SF 93 is one that you can not easily fudge. One can only pray to Mars that you got caught up in RIF and was reclassified into the I.R.R. Not only would this save the U.S. taxpayers money, but Army Esprit de Corps and effectiveness would be enhanced, without such a loose cannon on deck. Please forgive the usage of a nautical term for an Army related issue, but cassons do not apply here.

Posted by: Theo at June 21, 2006 2:06 AM

Combat:

I will respectfully aggree to disaggree with you on the elitist issue. Well said on the NCO matter. 2LT Baker just showed up and in no uncertain terms implied I was not in the military and needed a sock in my mouth. The good LT was promptly issued a bit of 2nd Division tough love as only a fomer Manchu can deliver it. I suppose OCS and OBC never teaches aspiring butterbars the true meaning of ASSUME. Baker has a short temper and any poster here, who is former or present PSYOPS, WOULD LOVE PUNCHING THIS GUY'S BUTTONS. Without realizing it, butterbar Baker may have brought weight and substance, to my elitist point. Baker delivered it in the model of Gen McClellen, and the Prussian haughtiness of the likes of Marshall Kietel. Perhaps butterbar Baker idolized these two General Officers, while he was at OBC, and integrated it into his command philosophy. The God of War, Mars, only knows. At anyrate I respectfully turn over butterbar Baker to a well seasoned NCO, such as yourself. I hope there is enough of 2LT Baker, left over for you, after I gave him the verbal version of a ROK ARMY WHIPPING! Enjoy and a hearty Manchu "KEEP UP THE FIRE', to you.

Theo

P.S. 2LT Baker is more than welcome to send me his P.O. box or address. My email is posted. I will be more than happy to forward him a copy of my DD 214, minus the SSAN. This will aliminate all doubt as to my military service and enlighten Mr. Baker as to the consequences of assuming too much!

Posted by: Theo at June 21, 2006 3:28 AM

Brank:

As long as one has a U.S. green card, they can join the U.S. Armed forces. The only exception might be if they had not met the military obligation of their home country. Turkey would be a good example. I ran into an interesting situation: when I was doing duty at Camp Blanding, there were some Canadian Warrant Officers on TDY. The interesting thing was both gentlemen were British nationals. Evidently they can go back and forth between both services. Did any of our Canadian friends hear of such a thing? Note to any green card holders wanting to join the U.S. Armed Forces: your path to citizenship will be accelerated by a few years.

Posted by: Theo at June 21, 2006 7:48 AM

Hey guys:

Kim Jung Il is a prime example of why Kim Il Son should not have made it with a yobo, while he was drunk on soju. We know this. While thinking about those two inbreds, the most vulgar Korean insult, about a fellow's mother, comes to mind. The only good commmie is a dead one.

Posted by: Theo at June 22, 2006 6:03 AM
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