June 4, 2006

Terror Cell Apprehended - Continued

(bumped to June 4 with updates)

This morning the Ottawa Sun is reporting that Parliament was on the hit list

"They were going after institutional targets," a source said.

Sources said targets included the Parliament Buildings and the CSIS headquarters in Toronto.

The Canadian Islamic Congress is critical - not at the alleged plotters - but that the government hasn't been "funding research on "home grown" effects of imported extremism".

(Last week they were celebrating the CUPE boycott of those dirty joos Israel. "Home grown" effects, indeed.)

Rosie Dimanno;

It takes no sophistication to connect non-existent dots, from Mississauga to Afghanistan, from grievances nurtured in the suburbs of Toronto to a so-called global crusade against Islam, as if the West is responsible for the oppression inflicted upon Muslims, in Muslim nations, by Muslim leaders.

It requires, increasingly, little empirical evidence to excuse the radicalism of pupa militants, including those who enjoy the benefits of our own generous, inclusive and hyper-tolerant society. This is the constituency that protects — tacitly encourages — the nihilism of those driven to violent distraction by what they see as endless victimization of their tribe, a purported world-wide Islamaphobia that can only be redressed by random atrocities.

How quickly, do you think, will these arrests — the judicial process only in its infancy — cease to be about them and become primarily about us?

Glenn Reynolds has morning observations on the media spin cycle that began the instant the arrests were announced, including this comment (from one of Roger Simon's readers);
Just like our own elites: they truly believe that - if not carefully monitored, us People will riot and string up Muslims from every lamp-post at the least provocation. In their view, the Military, especially, is certain to run amuck at any time (thus the obsessing over Abu Ghraib, and now, jumping all over Haditha) - and, of course, probably has, almost continuously, and Rumsfeld, etc has Covered it Up.

And with Bush in power, the Elites are wringing their hands, knowing that the RedNecks are rampant, uncontrolled, willing and able to do ANYTHING!!!!

See also the good news/bad news analysis this morning by Ed Morrissey.

June 3 commentary follows

Toronto Sun;

In a stunning development yesterday, police made a sweeping terrorist bust within the GTA and expected to make several more arrests throughout the night.

"The RCMP, CSIS and the Integrated National Security Enforcement Team arrested individuals throughout the GTA today in relation to terrorist-related offences," confirmed RCMP spokesman Corp. Michele Paradis.

As of about 9 p.m. last night, Paradis also added "there are ongoing arrests."

Though unconfirmed, sources have told the Sun police arrested a possible home-grown al-Qaeda terrorist cell operating in Toronto that had planned to bomb the subway as early as Monday.

Any guesses at how long it takes the usual suspects to a) downplay the story as much ado about nothing, and/or b) weave it into a conspiracy to turn Canada into Shrubhitler's police state. Update; It's already begun.

A news conference will begin shortly.You can listen live at 650 CKOM. On the fly:

- RCMP, along with CSIS and other security partners have arrested 12 adults and 5 young offenders who were planning a series of terrorist attacks on a variety of targets in southern Ontario.

- They've been charged under contributing to activity of a terrorist group, commission of firearms and explosives offenses for the benefit of a terrorist group, providing or making available property for the purpose of terrorist activities.

- 3 tons of ammonium nitrate was ordered and delivered. (the 1995 Oklahoma bombing was comleted with only 1 ton of ammonium nitrate)

- they had the capacity and intent to carry out the attacks

- All are Canadian residents from a variety of backgrounds, inspired by Al Qaeda

- Concern about what other groups may be out there, but are satisfied that the threat from this one has been removed.

(A commentor refers to "one brain trust of a reporter" asking a stupid question. Listening just now, about 4 reporters have asked successive questions directly related to the ongoing investigation, despite being told none would be entertained. That's the beauty of listening to these things live - one gains a first hand appreciation for just how "thick" the news filter is.)

The Toronto Star is now online with a report. Those arrested:

1. Fahim Ahmad, 21, Toronto;

2. Zakaria Amara, 20, Mississauga, Ont.;

3. Asad Ansari, 21, Mississauga;

4. Shareef Abdelhaleen, 30, Mississauga;

5. Qayyum Abdul Jamal, 43, Mississauga;

6. Mohammed Dirie, 22, Kingston, Ont.;

7. Yasim Abdi Mohamed, 24, Kingston;

8. Jahmaal James, 23, Toronto;

9. Amin Mohamed Durrani, 19, Toronto;

10. Steven Vikash Chand alias Abdul Shakur, 25, Toronto;

11. Ahmad Mustafa Ghany, 21, Mississauga;

12. Saad Khalid, 19, of Eclipse Avenue, Mississauga.

(What was that quote from the news conference about the individuals not reflecting on any one community?) - here it is: "This operation does not reflect badly on any ethno-cultural group in Canada".

FLASHBACK: 2005 - Weapons arrests at border - Who Are Dirie and Mohamed?

Considerable blogosphere coverage on this story;
Stephen Taylor has lots more, including a chilling poem.

Stop The ACLU on the internet angle. Pajamas Media has a big roundup. So does Hot Air here and here;

The Muslim Canadian Congress reaction is predictable.

Report from the courthouse.

"This operation does not reflect badly on any ethno-cultural group in Canada".

COMMENTS POLICY REMINDER - The comments are for just that - comments and reaction. This is not a chatboard. Stay on topic, and if you wish to engage in lengthy back and forth debate with others, take it to email.

Posted by Kate at June 4, 2006 8:48 AM

Before we get too relieved about the arrest and prevention of a terrorist attack in Canada, remember; Imigrants or not, in Canada we have protection under the Charter of Rights and freedoms. The writer of that Charter, Pierre Elliot Trudeau. The ONE who was NOT worried about the last world terrorist, Adolf Hitler.... On a motorcycle, with a NAZI Helmet, on a street, in Canada.

Posted by: B. Hoax Aware at June 3, 2006 10:13 AM

The terrorists arrested are "Canadian residents from a variety of backgrounds". Not "Canadian citizens" but "Canadian residents"

"Adherents of an ideology inspired by Al-Qaeda" - not Al-Qaeda directed, but sympathetic to Al-Qaeda? I don't buy it. One of those arrested has likely been playing the role of recruiter.

Posted by: patrick at June 3, 2006 10:13 AM

"This operation does not reflect badly on any ethno-cultural group in Canada".

"We're not prepared at this time to expose what any of the targets were"

"The TTC was not a target"

Posted by: patrick at June 3, 2006 10:17 AM

"Our information is that they did participate in training together. Altogether" (in confirming there was a training camp)

One brain trust of a reporter asked what the electronics being displayed as evidence was for. "To cause the explosion". The "Well, duh" moment so far.

Posted by: patrick at June 3, 2006 10:19 AM

Al Qaeda isn't a centrally directed terrorist organization. 'Jihad' is islamofascism and is not necessarily run only by Al Qaeda.

As I've remarked on several sites, I think that a major cause of this behaviour is multiculturalism, which locks people into identities defined by ethnicity,and/or 'country of origin'.

Multiculturalism forces immigrants to identify themselves only within a spatial and temporal reality that is 'negative', i.e., 'not here in this environment', not here in this culture' and 'the way it used to be back in the old country'. In Canada and Europe, we promote this type of identification. We think we are being 'accepting of them' by this act. In reality, it works to alienate and isolate them as perennial Others.

It works to prevent youth from developing, by themselves, a new collaborative identity directly relevant to the new country - the new physical environment (Canada), the new economic environment (industrial, market)and develop a new cultural identity that is relevant, that collaboratively INCLUDES all immigrants and all current residents as part of this population and that acknowledges a modern economy.

This profound alienation, which 'stops dead' the development of any relevant modern identity and insists that they can only repeat the past (which is not relevant here) forces these youth into a search for another encompassing identity.

Remember, their old ways are not relevant in a modern economy; they are not permitted to develop a modern all-Canadian identity; they are locked into being clones of a particular culture that is kept as an isolate ghetto in Canada.

So, they are prime targets for Islamofascism, which nurtures a broader and deeply emotional inclusiveness, which moves then out of the ethnic ghettoes multiculturalism has put them into.

The step to terrorism is almost inevitable, for they have no ties to the society in which they happen to live. No ties to the rest of the population, for we have set up each group as isolate and separate. No focus on collaboration with other groups to develop a shared identity relevant in N. America. This intellectual and emotional alientation sets up a 'schizoid' group and criminality and terrorism is the result.

Nothing, absolutely nothing to do with poverty. But, if you set up people in isolate ghettoes, locked within an irrelevant culture, and prevent them from developing a shared culture - they'll do it anyway. But, this shared culture happens to be islamofascism rather than Canadian.

Posted by: ET at June 3, 2006 10:23 AM

a)down play the story---check
b)weave it into a conspiracy-)"It's a CIA/Zionist plot"--check

I'd like to add 1 more-judging by the situation in the UK.

c)hand-wringing over targeting "ethnic minorities" leading to political appointments to token commitees to discuss how to deny reality. Nice work if you can get it. Should be a real hoot.

Posted by: red ant at June 3, 2006 10:25 AM

Let us hope that the investigation reveals who knew in the muslim community and said nothing.

Posted by: shaken at June 3, 2006 10:25 AM

Wonder if the NSA had anything to do with this capture. Phone calls into the USA from suspicious sources are monitored. Maybe all those anti-bushites in toronto should say thank you.

Posted by: maryT at June 3, 2006 10:29 AM

What a load of rubbish, the conspiracy theorists and the hate Bush/Harper crowd will be working full time to downplay this - not in Canada oh no...its all a plot by Harper LMAO They need to take their heads out of their collective butts and come back to reality.

Posted by: Alethea at June 3, 2006 10:31 AM

First,credit where credit is due.
WELL DONE!!! to the RCMP,CSIS,OPP and all others who have saved a lot of Canadians from death and suffering...BRAVO!!!

I must admit however that I am immediately concerned when I see terrorism intersecting with the YOA.I hope they are not home for dinner tonight after our chickensh*t justices get involved.

Posted by: Canadian Observer at June 3, 2006 10:32 AM

ET - who is this "you" that "sets up" immigrants in "ghettos" in this country? They come, they sign the forms, and they go out the door. Where they end up is up to them.

How about this - they come, they live whereever they want, and they live under our rule of law - which includes not conspiring to blow us up.

Islamofascism is a mind-control suicide cult. We must crush it.

Posted by: shaken at June 3, 2006 10:39 AM

Yes, well done indeed.

But it does remind us of the axiom - we need to get it right every time. The terrorists only need to get it right once.

I propose a new terrorist prison - on Banks Island in the High Arctic. They could stay warm by hugging a muskox.

Posted by: patrick at June 3, 2006 10:41 AM

"Meanwhile, a quiet Mississauga neighbourhood got a shocking visit from ETF officers who stormed the new subdivision and busted down the door of a Rosehurst Dr"

I live a mile from Rosehurst Dr. I haven't been on that street, but I would guess the house prices start at around $400K. Some ghetto.

Posted by: Mississauga Matt at June 3, 2006 10:43 AM

Counting down to the first moonbat to blame this averted attack on Stephen Harper being elected PM. Five.. four.. three.. two...

Posted by: BC Monkey at June 3, 2006 10:44 AM

ET, I agree with some of your points. But, one of the enduring problems here and Europe with immigrant Muslims is their resistence to assimilation in secular democracies. They self-segregate as the Koran expects and instructs them to do.

I think Islam is more of the problem than the multi-culti paradigm. The multi-culti garbage is its insistence that no culture can be deemed flawed.

Or maybe we are both saying the same thing in different ways.

Posted by: penny at June 3, 2006 10:45 AM

Listening for 10 minutes with the only word(?) giving any reference to: Islam, Muslims, Islamist terrorists, Islamist jihad, and etc., was "Al-Queda".

The Islamist terrorists captured may well have been Greenlanders from Greenland.

Political correctness is killing Canada.

shaken said: "Let us hope that the investigation reveals who knew in the muslim community and said nothing."

Where are Dr. Mohamed Elmasry and Liberal Member of Parliament, Omar Alghabra?

Posted by: maz2 at June 3, 2006 10:47 AM

"Canadian residents from a variety of backgrounds, inspired by Al Qaeda"

A variety of backgrounds? Why the effort to bend over backward and deny that the perps are Muslim? What is wrong with the idiots in the press?

Posted by: Mississauga Matt at June 3, 2006 10:48 AM

Reporters: "Stuck on Stupid" since , well, al long time.

I swear to god, if I asked questions like that in my professional life the kind that bone-headed questions reporters do every day, I'd be fired within a week.

I don't expect EVERY reporter to know every nuance of everything, but you'd expect a basic knowledge of police/legal procedure for most , that political reporters in Ottawa would have some historical background, and that correspondants in war zones would know as much as say a sports reporter knows about the sport he is covering... Sigh.

How ARE reporters hired, anyway?

Posted by: Fred at June 3, 2006 10:49 AM

Lackawana, NY isn't that far away from this. It make you wonder just where the tenacles spread.

Posted by: penny at June 3, 2006 10:49 AM

The moonbattery has already begun folks:

To their credit, some on this thread are non-insane. One writes: "3 tons of amoniam nitrate is just a figment of Harpers imagination?????? I am no fan of Harper or the conservatives......they were arrested after a long investigation."

Posted by: kathy Shaidle at June 3, 2006 10:50 AM

"I propose a new terrorist prison - on Banks Island in the High Arctic. They could stay warm by hugging a muskox."

what do you have against Muskox ?? :)

Posted by: Fred at June 3, 2006 10:51 AM

It didn't long, Kate.

Here's some quotes from rabble:

Josh"Yeah, I'll be interested to see if there is more than mere suspicion behind this. As I have predicted, Harper and Co. will attempt to use the "terror" threat to create a compliant and supportive populace and media (those that aren't already in that camp). I have a feeling these arrests are 90% political 10% threat."

NYCNDP: "Exactly. Shrub's poodle, Harper (a bi-lingual clone of Blair, no less), has managed to create a hysteria aimed at immigrants. They're whipping up a frenzy about some "TTC Plot" and picked people out to arrest. All to get suport for more money for CSIS, to help Shrub-Chimp. Go figure."

My opinion: Congrats to our security forces for finding this out before any deaths! Good work!

Posted by: Angela at June 3, 2006 10:52 AM

Beware of how the left MSm spins this story!
Only last week some stalwart appeaser Lib Senators were taking Peter MacKay to task about Canada's role in Afghanistan.
MSM will not be long trying to tie the terrorist cells here to events in Afghanistan as well. Who will be first? CBC? Toronto Star? Globe & Mail? CTV?

Posted by: Joe Molnar at June 3, 2006 10:55 AM

168 people died in the Oklahoma City bombing with 1 tonne of ammonium nitrate. It frightens me to think the havok 3 tonnes in Toronto would cause.

Posted by: qwerty at June 3, 2006 11:00 AM

A Young Offender Islamic terrorist makes his first court appearance.

"OK, young Mohammed. Now, do you know where you are? You're in a courtroom. Have you ever seen a courtroom on TV? OK, good.

"Now, do you know who I am? No, I'm not the representative of the Zionist oppressor. Although I am Jewish. How very perceptive of you. I can see you and I are going to have some useful dialogue here.

"Mohammed, has your lawyer explained to you why you're here? Which lawyer? Oh, that's right, you have three of them here. OK, well, have any of them explained why you're here? OK.

"Mohammed, you're here because somebody has accused you of planning to do very bad things. And we're here to see whether we can help you. No, no, not help you do the very bad thing. No, that's not our purpose. What is our purpose, then? OK, that's a tough one. I know there are cultural-linguistic challenges that are going to face us as we grapple with that one.

"I guess, Mohammed, that our purpose is to make sure you come out of all of this with your head held high. You're a young offender, so that means we, as an enlightened society, don't hold you to the same standard as we do "real criminals".

"No, Mohammed, when you turn 18 next week, you'll still be coming to this court. No, we don't send you automatically to adult court. We know you're just too young to handle the shock of dealing with those people.

"OK, down to business. We're here today to decide what to do with you. Yes, I know Mohammed. The Young Offenders facility isn't a nice place. Yes, I understand how being around such bad people has hurt you. We're really sorry about that, and we'll see what we can do here. OK, I'm ready to hear submissions on release.

"Yes, I understand Mohammed is a first-time offender. Uh huh. That's good to hear. He's kept his nose clean to this point. Well, clearly we can't have him return to the YO facility.

"Is there a parent here to take custody of young Mohammed? His father was arrested last night. How about his mother? Still being sought. OK, I guess that's out. Any other family? His uncles were also arrested. Is there a spiritual leader? His iman is being sought too. OK, clearly that's not an alternative.

"I see there's a representative of social services here. Do you have anywhere you can take this young man until we've got through things here?

"A foster home? That would be ideal. Please make the arrangements.

"Tell the foster parent about the charges he's facing? You aren't serious. You know we have to respect young Mohammed's right to privacy."

Posted by: patrick at June 3, 2006 11:01 AM

Andrew Coyne has the names of the Islamic scumbags.

Posted by: Mississauga Matt at June 3, 2006 11:02 AM

shaken - the 'you' is our social and educational system that focuses on identifying yourself within a particular ethnic group. You are then defined, socially and in our school system, as a representative of that group.

By 'ghetto' I don't mean that they live in one defined area, though, the multicultural focus does mean that ethnic groups tend to cluster in particular areas in cities.

Penny - yes, islamism is a particular problem, one that readily moves into fascism. Islam hasn't evolved and moved itself into a moderate version. Other religions have moved out of their early locations in tribal economies and have modernized themselves. Islam remains a tribal religion and is primarily a social system (rather than a religion); intensely tribal and isolationist.

But, multiculturalism promotes and enables this isolationism. That's my point. So, if you have a society that inhibits assimilation and insists on ethnic and religion isolation, AND, then you add a religion that refuses to modernize and is rejecting modernization by moving into fascism, THEN, you've got a home-made population of youths who will zip right into fascism.

Posted by: ET at June 3, 2006 11:08 AM

Ontario residents can rest knowing that these potential terrorists did not use or have dogs, and would protect their health by not smoking in public while planting their bombs. There were also raids in London yesterday, any connection. Lets build a prison for them all on Hans Island.
Can't wait for layton to comment on this. Will this wake up those leftists in Toronto, those that think we were mean to the khdars, should not deport illegals, everyone deserves a second chance, blah blah blah. Nowhere in the news conference did I hear them say they were born in canada, only that they are residents or citizens of canada. I am sure the US will again be watching the border and demand an ID card for cdns. Wonder if the people of Toronto will stay home today, or still go to malls, take the subway
or go to other public places. Message to Monte, tighten up immigration requirements, deport everyone ordered deported, find them and send them on their way, and if any are involved in this raid, seize all their and their parents property. Also seize the assets of anyone who knew about this and did nothing.

Posted by: maryT at June 3, 2006 11:09 AM

As I was watching the press report on TV I was asking myself--would we have seen anything like this under the LIberals? NO!!! How refreshing that the RCMP and CSIS are allowed to work as police should--protecting Canadians.
Now it we can just get the courts on side with reality. And if we could get the same police/justice excellent work to protect individuals--after all--rapists do not perform their despicable acts out of love--to the person being raped they are also terrorsits, as are home invaders, gun runners, bank robbers and, horror of horrors--young offenders! Time to get tough on all crime.

Posted by: Goerge at June 3, 2006 11:13 AM

BC Monkey said: "Counting down to the first moonbat to blame this averted attack on Stephen Harper being elected PM. Five.. four.. three.. two..."

There must be 5,400 (H/T Joe Volpe) moonbats blaming Harper/Bush already.

Below is a copy from a snake from Voy Forums, aka "bigroy", a regular there. The snake works in at the end a reference to "Gitmo"; it is the standard, left liberal moonbat, Aunty-American ad americanum.

The snake has poison in its open mouth.

This abominable snake, "bigroy", swallows 3 tons of fertilizer; he still can spew his venom.


Subject: Harper uncourageous & cowardly.

Harper is identified by D'Allaire as uncourageous.

I identify him as cowardly.

His job is to protect our democracy, but he leads the authorities, when he knows:

1. those arrested are arrested without charges
2. those arrested are arrested without access to lawyers
3. those arrested are arrested without access to a magistrate
4. those arrested are arrested without the right to a bail hearing
5. those arrested are arrested without a right to know the evidence against them
6. those arrested are arrested without a court hearing

Now - unless anyone on this board can show where it's a good thing that arrests can be made ... in Canada ... without basic constitutional rights and democratic freedoms, lessee if the gov't has the balls to take 'em to court.

We've a strong democracy - a strong legal system and a strong people.

We don't need to be "protected" by ancient, undemocratic methods.

We don't need another Gitmo in Canada

Posted by: maz2 at June 3, 2006 11:13 AM


The real question is how much was used in the first world trade centre bombing. To understand the power even more, Ohlahoma went off in an open area, deisappating the force to some degree.

This stuff is for bringing down buildings. Imagine 3 tonnes in parking garage of some unanmed bank tower in downtown, or underneathe the ACC or Rogers Centre....The CN tower would be very difficult to bring down, also hard to get close to without a suicide truck...not an unthinkable thought....but I dont know if the force from 3 tonnes in open air is enough

My personal concern..THE internet hb for Canada is across the street from my building. There is a parking garage underneath it. The police mentioned infrastructure.....I wish they would release the target list.

But to repeat this was about bringing down a building, the question is which one or was it multiple buildings.

Finally, was it being coordinated in to coincide with the UK a kind of "day of rage" from the Islamofascits. Multiple targets is a hallmakr of AQ and those who are inspired by strategy to so nothing uniwque there....

Watching and waiting.

Posted by: Stephen at June 3, 2006 11:16 AM

ET, thanks for clarifying.

IMHO, who cares about culture. Do whatever you want. Assimilate, comingle, ghetto-ize. Whatever floats your boat. Similarly, I don't give two hoots about multi-cult - I won't "celebrate" it, I just don't care where you come from or what you like to eat - all I care is that you leave me alone. That means you don't plot to bomb my family out of existence.

There are two opiats at work here. First, the ones our Librano fools self-administered that blinded them to the Jamaican gun cult and the Islamofascist threat, and the other is dealt by power-hungry misogenist Imams, turning the "Religion of Peace" into a disease of the mind.

No word yet from the feminists over at Rabble about women's right in Islam... brings new meaning to the expression "let's get stoned"...

Posted by: shaken at June 3, 2006 11:23 AM

Of course the arrested get the presumption of innocence: thats why their names are released, so the government can't just disappear people, BUT I want to thank the Canadian Security Community for their preventitive efforts. STANDING ON GUARD FOR THEE!

Posted by: cynical joe at June 3, 2006 11:25 AM

...So, uh...were they going to blow stuff up because they hate our freedoms? Or because we invaded Afghanistan and are currently killing Muslims there? Or, given our ridiculous open door/no paperwork required joke immigration system, is the question "why" a moot point?

Posted by: Bob at June 3, 2006 11:30 AM

"The TTC was not a target"

The point is irrelevant... Somebody, somewhere was a target.

Posted by: The Greek at June 3, 2006 11:31 AM

Look what treasures our liberal immigration policy brought us! Yup, keep voting liberal, Ontarians! You get most of the bad guys anyway!

Posted by: Soccermom at June 3, 2006 11:32 AM

maz2 said "The Islamist terrorists captured may well have been Greenlanders from Greenland."

I think you may be right, it is the DANISH connection with those people who like Car-B-Qs for meal preparation. :)

With 3 tonnes of ammonium nitrate, I imagine if you placed it all after hours in a tall building near critical structural supports, the terrorists would have achieved the desired effect.

But hey, if you belong to the life is cheap, crowd then they have been making the wrong choice:

Like the old good book says:

"I call heaven and earth to witness against you this day, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and curse; therefore choose life, that you and your descendants may live, loving The Lord your God, obeying His voice, and cleaving to Him; for that means life to you and length of days, that you may dwell in the land which The Lord swore to your fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them." (Deuteronomy 30:1-20 RSV)

Of course it is a no-brainer for most normal people that they choose life to see their normal length of days. Which is why the first poster B Hoax Aware got it right that the terrorist Hitler got it wrong by choosing death.

You see the Islamofacists are making a habit of choosing death, which is pretty inconvenient for those who live in their midst. Because after all if you choose death there is NO Promised Land.
The radical Islamist jihadists need some reeducation on these interesting theological points.

Posted by: Hans Rupprecht at June 3, 2006 11:44 AM

soccermom - these youths are not all recent immigrants; they can be second generation, as are many from non-Islamic countries.

I maintain that there are two problems. One is Islam itself, which as penny pointed out, is a problem. The problem is its refusal to evolve and modernize and reform itself from a fundamentalist tribal ideology. The other problem is multiculturalism, which rejects assimilation and insists on immigrants remaining isolate in dead-end old world cultures.

Rejecting assimilation means that you are confined to your 'ethnic group'. Since that ethnic group is ideologically empty here (you can't maintain an old world culture in a different environment) then, the young people are also ideologically empty.

Islamic fascism moves in like an epidemic virus. It provides bonding, a tremendous feeling of belonging outside of your local ethnic group, a sense of a glorious future, a deeply emotive companionship. No fraternity can match it for allegiance!

So - there are two causes. The Middle East and Israel-Palestine are NOT causes; they are just convenient 'proximate causes'. Colonialism is NOT a cause; that's just guilt tripping.

The basic causes are first, Islam, which is stuck in tribalism, hasn't modernized and can't enable its members to participate in the modern world. The isolation from this is compounded by, second, multiculturalism, which insists that you remain in that ethnic group and not assimilate. The alienated population are then ripe for the virus of fascism.

Posted by: ET at June 3, 2006 11:51 AM

Going on some of the moonbat blogs is so typical.
Blame Harper, blame bush, blah, blah, 'these young men were going to use the ammonium nitrate to fertilize a vegetable garden they were growing to help feed the starving orphans that Harper throughout on the street', or other garbage to that effect. So typical. In reality, in the RCMP and CCIS are working properly, Harper was most likely only briefed about the raids shortly before they happened.

Posted by: Trent at June 3, 2006 11:51 AM

ET, totally agree with your last paragraph. We really see that here in B.C.

Posted by: Soccermom at June 3, 2006 12:02 PM

A cbc female just said, in interviewing someone, something inferring those arrested were born in Canada. I want to see their birth cetificates. The press conference said, no identifiable group, look at the names, so what else did the misinform us about-no transportation facilities were targets. The justice minister should immediatley ammend the YOA to allow names to be published. For too many years bad people have used the under 18 to carry out criminal acts knowing they could not be named or would not face jail. So, many might be first offenders, do you want them free on bail till they blow up your bldg. I think the attack was scheduled for June 6, 2006. Isn't 666 the sign of the beast. Did the supplier of ammoniam nitrate inform the authorities of the order, if so, good on them.

Posted by: maryT at June 3, 2006 12:03 PM

Dawg isn't commenting today, was he arrested? lol

Posted by: Trent at June 3, 2006 12:06 PM

Remember Mr. "X", the "suicide" at the donut shop in Toronto? Who was Mr. "X"? ...

Missing: One Suicide Vest

Yesterday we noted that London police raided a house where chemical weapons of some kind were apparently being produced. Today comes the chilling news that a chemical suicide vest is believed to be missing:

British police were searching for a "suicide vest" laced with dangerous chemicals after a raid of the alleged bomb factory yielded two suspects but no vest.

Police think the vest has been made and will be set off at a busy bus or train station, or in a crowd watching a World Cup game in a local pub, The Times said.

Law enforcement officers wearing oxygen masks and chemical protection gear raided the London house after receiving a tip that the vest had been assembled. The Times reports Scotland Yard thinks the vest was put together in the house. ...
powerline news

Posted by: maz2 at June 3, 2006 12:07 PM

Hey, this is Canuckistan, we'll have no racial profiling here. I'm just waiting for Mr. Dithers and friends to demand that we stripsearch 17 seventy-year old Polish nuns just to balance things out.

Posted by: neo at June 3, 2006 12:08 PM

MaryT wonders what nonsense Jumpin' Jack Flash will spout, now that a bunch of Islamofascists have been arrested in the GTA?

I can just hear it now: Hey, these guys' human rights haven't been respected. These guys are not only immigrants, they're a minority group AND victims of discrimination in this country. Like the line from the street gang in "West Side Story," they're "deprived."

Jack and company are going to start worrying about a back lash, like the Muslims in Virginia are worried about, reported on the CBC yesterday. They'll start worrying about the safety of Muslims in Canada and about their "rights" which are probably being denied them.

Never mind that the rights of 3000 plus citizens of the U.S., Canada, and other countries were barbarically violated by airplanes ploughing into the Twin Towers five years ago. Never mind that the rights of citizens and minority groups in Muslim countries are all but non-existent. These denials of human rights don't concern our intrepid and oh-so-tolerant, multi-culti lefties and members of the MSM.

Never mind that millions of North Americans' rights and freedoms are in jeopardy because of fanatic Islamofascist terrorists living amongst us; excuse me, Jack has just corrected me: These guys are "freedom fighters."

All that matters is that because the men arrested belong to a minority group in Canada they are, by definition, victims of awful things: racism, bigotry, red neckism, discrimination, yada, yada, yada.

What PLANET do Jack and all the other nutbars who line up with him live on? Obviously one on which there is a perverted death wish and a decidedly twisted perspective on reality. They will be more worried about a possible backlash against Muslims in Canada, than being concerned about the continued threat of terrorism to Canadian citizens by Islamist fanatics whose express purpose is to wipe us out.

Jack and co. live in a parallel universe to that inhabited by most sane and clear-thinking people. But the Charter of Rights and Freedoms will be hauled out in defence of the Islamist terrorists. Upside down world, or what?

Posted by: new kid on the block at June 3, 2006 12:14 PM

ET's right on the money re who the "you" is: "[T]he 'you' is our social and educational system that focuses on identifying yourself within a particular ethnic group. You are then defined, socially and in our school system, as a representative of that group."

Here's a copy of my post on another thread, which provides hard, up-to-the-minute evidence of ET's assertion:

"And on and on it goes: In the name of "Employment Equity" (sic), the Toronto District School Board's (TDSB) just asked its employees to complete a most intrusive census. (More below)

"Before PET's Charter of Rights (sic) and Freedoms (sic), Canadians had more rights and more freedoms: Since 1982, the Charter (of Fights and Fiefdoms) has been used, to control Canadians, first of all, by grouping us according to "victim" status. Has anyone noticed that Canadians who play the victim card seem to have more rights than the rest of us? The Charter has also been extensively used by the Machiavellian Human Rights (sic) Commissions and Canadian Courts to extend victims' rights at the expense of those of the rest of us.

"New Kid's altogether right about the isolation of those of us who've questioned this totalitarian bent of Canada's ruling elites. The blogosphere's a godsend. Let's hope that it and our new government will be successful in waking Canadians up.

"Back to the TDSB Workforce Census, just one of Trudeau's many tentacles reaching far into the future with long term, deleterious effects: All kinds of bells going off here. Of course, the census won't be used to enforce quotas: tell me another. The questions: "Do you identify yourself as: 1. Male? Female? 2. an Aboriginal person? 3. a visible minority? 4. With which one of the following groups do you identify yourself? [16 categories, including "Other" were given: none included the words French or British. I guess "White- Canadian" would include both.] 5. Do you identify yourself as a person with a disability? Yes/No. If Yes, please identify: [6 categories were provided, including "Other".] 6. Do you identify yourself as: Bisexual? Gay? Heterosexual? Lesbian? Transgender? Transsexual? Two-Spirited {Aboriginal term]?"

"Employees were asked to provide their employee number. Completing the census was voluntary and I know a number of teachers who left it blank, except for their employee number. A little scary? Big Brother--more like Sister in public education--watching?

"The numbers will most definitely be used to further manipulate the composition of the workforce and curriculum content and resources. E.g., Although a traditionalist would never be allowed into a school to talk about the stability of heterosexual marriage for all concerned, homosexual propagandists are regularly welcomed into schools to present their lifestyles as normal and their victimhood as needing state intervention both on their behalf and against "bigots". Of course, in "Big Sister Land" this is considered "equity".

"Does anyone think that the data will be used to balance the numbers of males vs females teaching in the Elemenatry panel? (Far fewer than 50% of elementary school teachers are male: Most self-respecting men recoil at the thought of working for a feminist cabal.) Although the data will most certainly be used to hire more minorities, you can bet there won't be a freeze on hiring women until the numbers are even. As always, "equity" is lopsided and whatever the elites decide it's going to be.

"Somewhere, surveying the present-day, state-controlled Canada he masterminded, PET's still smirking."

BTW, at GOOGLE, the TDSB's apparent website (http://tdsbweb/census) with more information about this "cannot be found". The TDSB website is also no help. And there have been no news releases about this by the TDSB. Hmmm . . .

Posted by: lookout at June 3, 2006 12:16 PM

Mary T: A friend of mine and I were just talking a week ago about June 6/06. The scary thing is this was just to damn close.
Thanks Kate for posting the names. I don't see any Irish, Scotish or Danish names. I wonder if this would have been caught under the Liberals. I really doubt it. They were so busy patting each other on the back they wouldn't know a terrist plot if it hit them in the head. This is what happens to a country when there is no credible leadership. We are in for troubled roads head. The other thing I noticed was hoow quiet the press gallery was when they were interviewing the police on TV. To bad they didn't show the PM the same respect.

Posted by: MaryM at June 3, 2006 12:23 PM

I'm sure the left probably think it's a conspiracy concocted by the Conservatives and part of Stephan Harpers "Hidden Agenda" and the plan was to blow up the CBC. The names of the arrested are all aliases. LOLOLOL

Posted by: Rico at June 3, 2006 12:24 PM

"According to sources close to the investigation, the suspects are teenagers and men in their 20s who had a relatively typical Canadian upbringing, but — allegedly spurred on by images of conflict in Iraq and Afghanistan and angered by what they saw as the mistreatment of Muslims at home — became increasingly violent."

Posted by: Bob at June 3, 2006 12:30 PM

Reported previously by Canadian Sentinel.

Sentinel has been admonished here to be quiet, shush up, tone it down, and etc.,; a purveyor of doom/gloom; a neo-Cassandra.

Sentinel did his job as his blog 'nym says:

Canadian Sentinel; a True Canadian Patriot.

Well done, our good and faithful servant; a servant of Canada.

More,please, and faster. ...

NIN, CFP Report on Terror Camp in Canada
A few months back I did this post on the terror training camp located in Combermere, Ontario.

Well, Northeast Intelligence Network Director Douglas J. Hagmann, an American, has just written his own piece on the very same matter.

Investigation by the Northeast Intelligence Network has indeed verified the presence of a Jamaat ul Fuqra encampment located in the Madawaska Valley in Combermere, Ontario, just west of the Capital City of Ottawa

Yes, Mr. Hagmann, we do indeed stand on guard for thee. As a Canadian, I have, with that earlier post of mine, demonstrated exactly that... and now America has the proof that Canada is not just full of socialist peaceniks.

I thank you for looking into it.

We certainly do have a lot in common, we Canadians and Americans.

And we stand united and together fight the enemies of freedom, democracy and the rule of law.

We stand on guard for thee!

Posted by: maz2 at June 3, 2006 12:31 PM

Just another day at work for the blood-thirsty Muzzi head-choppers....

Posted by: Slim at June 3, 2006 12:40 PM

Bob, I'm not altogether clear why you have posted this: "According to sources close to the investigation, the suspects are teenagers and men in their 20s who had a relatively typical Canadian upbringing, but — allegedly spurred on by images of conflict in Iraq and Afghanistan and angered by what they saw as the mistreatment of Muslims at home — became increasingly violent."

What mistreatment would they be talking about? Details please. I'm not aware of any Muslims who have been killed in Canada, unlike the many innocent bystanders who have been murdered by marauding Islamist fanatics all over the Middle East because of a few cartoons.

But, supposing there has been "the mistreatment of Muslims at home," I guess by this logic any teenager spurred on by images of conflict in, say, their home or at school, and feel that either they or those they are close to have been mistreated, would be justified in becoming "increasingly violent."

I look back to my teenaged years and can think of all sorts of issues that might have spurred me onto anger and violence. I look at the teenagers of today and see far more issues that might spur them onto doing the same thing.

But the point is, I or any non-Muslim teenager today would not be seen as justified if we got together a whole cache of explosives to annhilate the persons/groups we felt had mistreated us.

I sure hope that the Star reporter wasn't justifying these Muslim teenaged "shenanigans."

Posted by: new kid on the block at June 3, 2006 12:51 PM

For God's sake, *I'M* a liberal through and through - I like having a female Head of State, I think it's healthiest for gay people to be able to marry, I want to keep ensuring men and women have equal opportunties, and I like seeing the Church OUT of the State.

Protecting our liberal society is why we must crush this Islamic terrorists decisively!!

I'm ashamed of the reactionary Left - Harper is a guy, he's not evil. TERRORISTS are evil, for god's sake!

The "right wing threat" comes from Osama Bin Laden, not the CPC! Abortion, gay marriage, equal rights, separation of church and state - these would all disappear under Islamic masters.


Posted by: Jason D at June 3, 2006 12:51 PM

Good thing we're recognizing their foreign credentials in stead of stopping all immigration from arab countries.

Far better to put the lives of thousands of torontonians at risk and keep the principle of multiculturalizm active. If my children have children their Canada will indeed be bleak.

Should I say terrorist countries to be politically correct? nahhh. Same thing isn't it?

Posted by: drwright at June 3, 2006 12:52 PM

"I wonder if this would have been caught under the Liberals. I really doubt it." - MaryM

Thanks Mary, for placing your spectacularly ignorant idiocy on display for us all.

Guess what, Mary? Might come as shocker, I know, but it was actually the *RCMP* and a little thing we like to call "CSIS" that caught these mofus.

I hate Paul Martin as much and for the same reasons as you do, but - I'm not a gasbag idiot like you are, Mary.

Gee, another thing proving your IQ level? These mofus have been under surveillance for, oh, I think it was a year now?

Wake up, you dimwit.

Posted by: Jason D at June 3, 2006 12:56 PM

Captain's Quarters has an interesting amount of detail on how these guys were caught.

Posted by: patrick at June 3, 2006 12:58 PM

Dr Wright:

I agree with you.

Only secular Arabs who embrace equality of women and separation of church and state should be allowed into our country. Otherwise, our support for those ideals is only lip-service.

Posted by: Jason D at June 3, 2006 12:59 PM

Jason D, your manners are atrocious. Your ideas would be more respected if you cleaned up your act. I find the language in your posts unnecessarily offensive. Smarten up, sir.

Posted by: lookout at June 3, 2006 1:05 PM

Many thanks be to Maz2 for the plug.

Like I said when starting my blog, I'll do what I can, however little or much it be.

I hope many more bloggers and others will get involved in whatever way they can to join the war against jihad and against the rest of the gathering, growing, strengthening Axis Power Group.

This is real. And all you need to enlist in the war is the motivation, a computer, an internet connection and a working brain.

Remember, Chamberlain was wrong. Churchill was right.

Appeasement will NOT work. The enemy sees it as weakness and submission and is only emboldened via its very nature to move in for the kill.

As did Hitler.

And history is going to repeat itself.

I hope I'm wrong, but who can be certain that I am? Why take the huge gamble again? Millions of innocent lives are at stake as we speak.

The choice before us is:


or reactive?

Be assured I'm following the developments... already I've a preliminary post:

Also: I've noticed an increased police presence in my city... they appear to be keeping an extra vigilant eye on everyone. Coincidence?

Posted by: Canadian Sentinel at June 3, 2006 1:07 PM

War on fascist maniacs and killers is no time for manners, Dr. Jones.

Posted by: Jason D at June 3, 2006 1:09 PM

I read the comments over at the CBC and they all seemed so negatively biased that the forum there seems poisoned, and I said so:-
**The consistant acidic tone of most foregoing comments makes me very suspicious that a certain group or political club have been instructed to comment on these recent happenings.

My feelings are that something very deadly has been nipped in the bud here.

One alert agra-feeds salesman or sales woman suspected buyers of a three ton lot of ammonium nitrate. That alert person may have saved thousands of Canadian lives.

I don*t care what the politics look like. If the facts are as reported, it is clear that some of the comments here could well have been positive.

My impression is that this is a heavily biased forum and I would be surprised if my comment is allowed to stand. TG**
At the CBC comment submit you are thanked for your comment and there is a contact grouping topped with **CBC Ombudsman**

Do they get an inordinate volume of complaints about chopped comments? Unpleasant aftertaste! TG

Posted by: TG at June 3, 2006 1:10 PM

Just by looking at the names and where the alleged terrorists reside, a simple common link emerges...
Where's Carolyn Parrish and her sympathic sentiment towards Islamic terrorists, when you need her???

Posted by: Knight of Good Mr. Iron Man at June 3, 2006 1:17 PM

The CBC forums seem to be *quite* heavily moderated for non-biased comments, I'm afraid. It's a pity - the CBC is in poor shape and far, far too left-leaning to be called fair.

And that makes me sad.

Posted by: Jason D at June 3, 2006 1:18 PM

Last post, Jason D: I couldn't agree more.

Posted by: lookout at June 3, 2006 1:22 PM

Hey! Head smack! Now I have awakened! CBC biased comments indeed. The commentors are from Rabble Babble!

No wonder. TG

Posted by: TG at June 3, 2006 1:22 PM

I'm with MaryM, who wondered if the Liberals would have moved as quickly to arrest these Muslim youth who were, obviously, planning a large and destructive initiative against the people of Toronto.

Sure, the RCMP and CSIS were investigating, but it's not unheard of for governments to interfere with these agencies, and I'm thinking specifically of the Librano Government.

If the RCMP had been able to do their job unhindered during the last 13 years of Librano rule, I'm sure they would have unearthed Adscam, the HRDC scandal, the Income Trust scandal, etc., etc. in a much more timely fashion. If they were just lazy and didn't do their job, and that's why it took so long for these scandals to come to light, then they should be disbanded and Canada should come up with another national polic force. I suspect the former reason, not the latter, is the reason why it took so long to unearth these scandals.

The Librano$ have bought hook, line, and sinker the political correctness approach to life that dictates that any ethnic group, especially a minority one, even if it's as clear as the nose on my face that one ethnic group, and one only, is responsible for certain heinous activities, can be "profiled" in Canada, despite the fact that they might be putting the safety of Canadians in jeopardy.

It would be just like the Libs, if it came to their attention that a certain ethnic minority was being targeted by an investigation to halt or slow the whole thing down. That's why I have absolutely NO FAITH in them. They let assinine, PC, feel-good, considerations, not facts and reality, dictate the direction certain investigations will take.

For the safety of all Canadians, it is a very good thing that Prime Minister Stephen Harper and his party are governing Canada and not the lenient, liberty-challenged Liberals.

Posted by: new kid on the block at June 3, 2006 1:23 PM

Meanwhile, the Mayor of TO, David Miller, was on newsworld "well the London bombers were English after all as these are Canadians! Some even came here as children ... they're, they're Canadians!"
And he looks absolutely astounded that these 'Canadian young men' would even think to do this here.

Wonder if the jackass of an anchor for Montreal's english CTV evening newscast will stop smirking when he says the words 'War on Terror' now? sigh - not likely.

Strike one for the good side today, our side, freedom's side.
My deep gratitude to the fine and dedicated people for keeping us safe this time, please carry on.

Posted by: Ldd at June 3, 2006 1:24 PM

They just had EricMargolis on CP24 saying its because of Harper's policies that this attack was planned.Guess he overlooked the fact that CSIS was watching thes guys for years.

Can't wait to see Layton's comments on this.Probably says it shows what happens because of lack of public daycare.

Posted by: paulb at June 3, 2006 1:26 PM

Whoops Error in last post: this sentence should have read:

The Librano$ have bought hook, line, and sinker the political correctness approach to life that dictates that any ethnic group, especially a minority one, even if it's as clear as the nose on my face that one ethnic group, and one only, is responsible for certain heinous activities, CANNOT be "profiled" in Canada, despite the fact that they might be putting the safety of Canadians in jeopardy.

See what happens when you construct such a mess of a sentence? I stand by what I'm saying, but I should have found a less confusing way to say it!

Posted by: new kid on the block at June 3, 2006 1:29 PM

That much ANFO (Ammonium Nitrate plus Fuel Oil), properly placed, primed and detonated could take down several dozen large buildings. In an open air blast (unconfined) with no shrapnel, 3 tonnes would have a killing radius of several hundred metres just from the shock wave. These Islamic wack-jobs were planning something very big or very sustained.

The agencies responsible for their capture deserve our gratitude and appreciation.

Posted by: John Chittick at June 3, 2006 1:29 PM

And maybe Ann Rohmer should ask her dad's opinion of Islamic terror movements before agreeing with everything Margolis said. It's time to start cancelling subscriptions to the Sun and let CityTV know that we are displeased.

Posted by: andycanuck at June 3, 2006 1:30 PM

The loud mouth head of the Canadian islam society or whatever it is called "the guy that went after Izra Levant at the Western Standard" seems to be very quiet today. I would imagine this clown will be more interested in the "rights" of these terrorists under our precious Charter of Rights and Freedoms and how it is all racialy motivated.

Posted by: Rob C at June 3, 2006 1:31 PM

Read the posts on this story in the G&M, sure proves that a lot of BC and TO residents need to have their eyes open. Was the suicide at Tims reported correctly, was that the start of this. Was the smoke in the subway in TO really from a fallen item from the train. CNN has this story, along with video of some suspects in police cars. Never noticed a white person in the group, did see one older Asian. This has to be another set back for Tourism to Toronto, or Ontario. Is this cell the only one in Canada, I doubt it. What will it take for the leftists in TO to wake up. They certainly need to thank our police and other forces, even tho many feel someones Charter Rights might have been violated. As stated before, those residents don't have to fear being infected by second hand smoke. If given a choice would you prefer smokers harming you or being bombed into the next world. As many were very young, I guess they thought they could all handle 72 virgins.

Posted by: maryT at June 3, 2006 1:36 PM

Guys, this is not a Liberals vs. Conservatives issue, it's a Canada vs. Islamic Terror issue. It makes no difference to me what Paul Martin would have done (hopefully he would have resigned... But anyway) or what Layton will say.

I don't believe in much of a right/left split so much as I do kiddie bickering. Left or Right, we all value equality of all citizens regardless of gender, we all are happy that a woman can be Governor General or Monarch or Prime Minister, we're all thankful to be able to worship, peacefully, the religion most attractive to us, we're all grateful to vote freely. We're all on the same damn side here.

"Part of Harper's plan, as per my predictions, he is evil": gasbags.

"The Liberals under Martin would have given them a parade": gasbags.

Time to put away childish things and think as Canadians who value our lives and our freedom here.

Posted by: Jason D at June 3, 2006 1:37 PM

MaryT, you're right - thank god for the RCMP and CSIS. I said so earlier on Taylor, but not here.

Posted by: Jason D at June 3, 2006 1:38 PM

A legitimate attack foiled or an overblown spectacle being hyped by Harper McBush and co.? I don't know...
In either case, get our troops out of Afganistan, stop cooperating with Bush's illegal war on Islam, and stop siding with the Israeli aparthied against the Palestinians and none of this would be happening.

Harper and his gang of thugs are intent on changing Canada, as well as our role in the world. Its happening right before our eyes and faster than I had anticipated. He made this bed, the trouble is, all of us have to sleep in it.

Posted by: Kevin_Laddle at June 3, 2006 1:42 PM

Where is Prime Minister Harper today? What is he doing today?

He is at work/on the job.

What is his job's Number One Priority?

Number One Priority:

The provision of security for Canada and Canadians.

God Bless the new recruits to our Armed Forces.

God Bless Canada. ...

From the Prime Minister's Web Site (

Public events for June 3, 2006

June 2, 2006
Ottawa, Ontario

Public events for Prime Minister Stephen Harper for Saturday, June 3rd are:

1:00 pm – The Prime Minister will address more than 200 recruits who will be joining the Canadian Forces, at the official Enrolment Ceremony.

Canadian War Museum
1 Vimy Place
Ottawa, Ontario

* The Prime Minister is expected to speak at 2:20 pm

** Open to media

Posted by: maz2 at June 3, 2006 1:44 PM

Hopefully this opens many eyes to the threats we face from Islamofacism, but this is not the first time they've broken up a terrorist cell in Toronto.

Anyone remember this?

That one happened back in November.

Good work to CSIS and the RCMP for busting these scum before they had a chance to act!

Posted by: CanForce 101 at June 3, 2006 1:49 PM

Harper made this bed?????

After being Prime Minister for months?

Kevin Laddie, you're drinking the same quack-milk as MaryM. This bunch has been under surveillance for - say it with me now, Kevin - a year.

Yes, that's right - longer than Harper has actually been Prime Minister! Really!

They hate CANADA, not Harper, you dimwit.

That means you, me, Harper, Duceppe, ALL of us.

Pathetic, ignorant, nutty, Kevin - that's you.

Posted by: Jason D at June 3, 2006 1:54 PM

Hmmm. Seems a certain Jason D is of the mind that the RCMP and CCIS are in no way influenced or controlled by their political masters of the day.

Dream on Jason.

And by all means keep on deriding any one who happens to know otherwise.

It makes you look SO intelligent.

Posted by: Joe Canuck at June 3, 2006 1:54 PM

"A legitimate attack foiled or an overblown spectacle being hyped by Harper McBush and co.? I don't know... "

"Harper and his gang of thugs".

Kevin, what is a "legitimate attack"?

How is the arrest of people with 3 tonnes of enough explosive to bring down Parliament "an overblown spectacle"?

Where do you see either Harper or Bush hyping this?

Are you planning on taking the Toronto subway anytime soon? If you see Stephen Harper there, will you run fleeing?

Why aren't you talking about "Qayyum and his gang of thugs"?

Considering these guys have been planning this since Martin first became Prime Minister, where is your attack on him? Or do you not consider it necessary to make even a pretence of being able to be coherent?

Why are you an idiot? Was it heredity or environment?

Posted by: patrick at June 3, 2006 1:54 PM

Kevin - first, stop the ad hominem. Stop insulting Harper and Bush.

You prefer Islamofascism? You are naive if you think that Islamofascism is caused by the Israeli-Palestinian situation. Most Islamic states don't give a damn about helping the Palestinians.

Islamofascism has nothing to do with this; it's a result of a sociopolitical infrastructure of tribalism - a tribalism enforced by Islam. Islam hasn't evolved from its tribal origins to be able to operate in a modern, large population, industrial economy. That tension between a socioreligious ideology and a population that has exponentially increased over the past generation and become urban and industrial rather than rural and agricultural - is the 'root cause' of Islamic fascism.

Unless Islam reforms and permits its adherents to operate in a modern industrial socioeconomic mode, this tension will continue to 'explode' into fascism.

Afghanistan is trying to move out of tribalism into democracy. That's why we are helping it. Or, do you prefer fascism? The same in Iraq. But, it's not easy. These areas have been denigrated by years of dictatorial rule; they don't have democratic infrastructures; they don't have norms that permit negotiated conclusions rather than vicious and violent retributive tribal interactions. It takes time.
BUT - a population in the multimillions can't live within tribalism. It has to move into democracy.

or, do you prefer fascism?

Posted by: ET at June 3, 2006 1:54 PM

Kevin_Laddle that was the funniest thing I have read since the "" web site. You just forgot to put the /sarc=on and /sarc=off tags. were trying to be serious.

Posted by: qwerty at June 3, 2006 1:56 PM


ROTFLMAO....that is a really good imitation of someone disconnected from reality....thanks it really brightened up a rainy saturday.

wow, my sides hurt and I am wiping tears from my eyes....phew...that was brilliant. Thanks again.

Posted by: Stephen at June 3, 2006 1:56 PM

From the Left
This was excellent police work. They showed patience and skill.
This proves what I have been saying since forever. Canadians are made safe, or not by focusing on our internal security. Money and resources need to spent and kept right here at home.
In fact,"fighting them over there" with all the violent imagery may have inflamed these Canadian youth. Perhaps even the Arar incident. It doesn't excuse them but it may help explain them. The follow-up investigation into why and how these things happen will be helpful in preventing further terrorist spawnings.

Chasing Taliban, who were not terrorists but rather hosts to terrorists, while Canadian terrorists are plotting over here is a questionable policy.
Because we caught these budding terrorists here this time doesn't mean we can afford to run a two front war on terror. Paying for a war on terror here and one over there, when it appears the one here is by far the most important, is an unnecessary and perhaps futile expense. The domestic scene is where our resources obviously are best spent.

Posted by: steve d. at June 3, 2006 1:56 PM

Bring our troops home from Afganistan, stop taking sides in the Israeli aparthied, and the problem is solved. We were making war on Afganistan long before any attack on Canada. If you right-wingers want a war, people are going to fight back.

Posted by: Kevin_Laddle at June 3, 2006 1:59 PM

"IMHO, who cares about culture"...shaken

A country that doesn't care about its culture will end up with none worth defending.

A country that defines as bigotry concern over the erosion of the dominate culture will end up being dominated by the culture of those newcomers who most strongly retain their cultural identity.

Posted by: Terry Gain at June 3, 2006 2:04 PM

... and to think we did it without extra-legally detaining, torturing, rendering or warantlessly wiretaping anybody. Looks like you can be safe without big government trampling on your rights and liberty despite Captain's Quarters' spin trying to use this event to justify broad domestic esponiage on all of a countries' citizens.

Kudos to all the agencies involved.

Posted by: lol at June 3, 2006 2:05 PM

Kevin, lay off of the leftie-islam-o-koolaid

ET, how are these islamo bad guys any different from the islamo bad guys that Israel faces every day? Islamic states don't care about Palistinians because that dispute is not about land or rights for ancient Palestinians - it is about the same thing that drives the 12 guys who were arrested here - jihad, domination by Islam, and dhimmi status for those not adhering to islam.

Kevin would like us to stop siding with America and Israel - these countries are our allies in the war against Islamofascism. Who do people like Kevin think should be our allies? the French, the Germans, the Cubans, the Venezualans, the Iranians?

Posted by: ex-liberal at June 3, 2006 2:10 PM

"how are these islamo bad guys any different from the islamo bad guys that Israel faces every day"

Our islamo bad guys were smart enough to not take on Israel.

Posted by: patrick at June 3, 2006 2:14 PM

When I hear crap like "Islamofacism" I cannot help but shake my head. But then I realize you nutjobs aren't kidding. Why can't you get it into your thick skulls? There is NO such thing as "Islamofacism". It's a lie, it's a myth that has been foisted upon you by Harper McBush and the gang.

America started this so-called war. Do you really buy the crap that they are "attacking us because they hate our freedoms"? They are attacking America because America joins with Israel in slaughtering their people. And they are attacking us because we are now joining with American in the bloodshed. Do you right-whingers not realize that Spain has not seen an attack since it wisely ended its cooperation in the Bush-led war on Islam? Canada must immediatley do the same, or risk incurring the same wrath. We may not be so lucky next time...

Posted by: Kevin_Laddle at June 3, 2006 2:17 PM

Impress this name onto/into your memory cells:

Imam Aly Hindy.

This Islamist is a dangerous man. Beware. ...

Mississauga men accused of being terrorists

The Star reports that Mississauga brothers-in-law Ahmad Ghany and Zakaria Amara have been charged in connection with plots to attack Canadian targets, the Toronto Star has learned.

However, shocked neighbours and family members say they don't believe the allegations.

"I think they have it wrong. Those guys have nothing to do with (terrorism)," said Scarborough Imam Aly Hindy, a high profile critic of the RCMP and Canadian Security Intelligence Service. He has accused the federal agency of targeting Muslims who criticize the foreign policies of Western governments.

He believes this is what led to the arrests yesterday.

"Because they are young people, and they are Muslims, they are saying it's terrorism," he told The Star last night. more

Posted by: maz2 at June 3, 2006 2:17 PM

"Chasing Taliban, who were not terrorists but rather hosts to terrorists"

Yes, our troops are truly appreciating the splendors of the Taliban hospitality. Not a terrorist among them. The roadside bombs are being set off by CIA operatives bent on establishing the republic of Bushistan.

Posted by: patrick at June 3, 2006 2:18 PM

"Bring our troops home from Afganistan (sic), stop taking sides in the Israeli aparthied (sic), and the problem is solved."

So, when these guys started planning these attacks, before Afghanistan, and before the Conservatives ended the shameful practice of the Liberals of taking sides AGAINST Israel, they were just doing that because of the precautionary principle, right?

Kevin, you aren't really this stupid, are you? This is really a spoof, right? I mean, you seem to have benefitted from enough of an education to put thoughts down - surely you aren't so devoid of cognitive powers that you actually believe this twaddle. Do you?

Posted by: patrick at June 3, 2006 2:23 PM

"This operation does not reflect badly on any ethno-cultural group in Canada".

Suuuuuure.  Uh-huh.  Of course it doesn't, pal.

Posted by: Garth Wood at June 3, 2006 2:28 PM

talking to people like Kevin is almost useless - he will always fall back on his position that the world's problems are caused by America and Israel. To our enemies, he is what Lenin (or was it Stalin?) used to call "useful idiot". He does not realize that as much as shouts "I hate me too" this will not save him from dhimmi status or death.

Posted by: ex-liberal at June 3, 2006 2:30 PM

steve d

"This proves what I have been saying since forever."

Yeah right.

"fighting them over there" with all the violent imagery may have inflamed these Canadian youth.

It's people like you steve d who have twisted what is selfless humanitarian aid by invoking vile imagery to describe their heroic conduct. Non-Canadian youth who are inflamed because we are trying to help the Afghans should be deported. Canadian youth suffering from this kind of derangement should sue the CBC and the Toronto Star for intentional infliction of anti-Americanism.

"It doesn't excuse them but it may help explain them. The follow-up investigation into why and how these things happen will be helpful in preventing further terrorist spawnings."

Oh yes, let the hand wringing begin. How about beginning with the observation they suffer from the same disordered thinking as you steve d and like you can't recognize the difference between the agents of freedom and those of oppression. What's your excuse? Overdosed on leftist moronisms?

"Chasing Taliban, who were not terrorists but rather hosts to terrorists, while Canadian terrorists are plotting over here is a questionable policy."

Oh we should leave and see if the Taliban host al Qaeda a second time. Brilliant steve. Simply brilliant. Do you usually expect different outcomes when you keep doing the same thing? The concept of fighting any war (except a propaganda one against their own country) is anathema to the left. Fighting on two or three fronts is to be avoided like the plague. It might result in a quicker victory.

"Because we caught these budding terrorists here this time doesn't mean we can afford to run a two front war on terror. Paying for a war on terror here and one over there, when it appears the one here is by far the most important, is an unnecessary and perhaps futile expense. The domestic scene is where our resources obviously are best spent.Posted by: steve d."

Thank you General steve d. No doubt when the terrorists do pull off their first attack in Canada you will explain that it could have been prevented if we hadn't diverted resources over there.

Posted by: Terry Gain at June 3, 2006 2:32 PM

Which one was that qwerty?

People wonder why would they come here, would it have anything to do with all the women and children that the troops are killing in afghanistan?

Terrance (Terry) Yeakey was a courageous young black Oklahoma City police officer who was on duty near the Murrah Building the morning of that building's bombing.

Look how quickly people jump to conclusions. Like those 19 terrorist hijackers that the FBI put out after 9/11, lol, someone should go and tell some that their dead and shouldn't be walking around especially the one thats a airline pilot.
Washington Post - 9/16/01 - 2nd Witness Arrested; 25 Held for Questioning
Two of 19 suspects named by the FBI, Saeed Alghamdi and Ahmed Alghamdi, have the same names as men listed at a housing facility for foreign military trainees at Pensacola. Two others, Hamza Alghamdi and Ahmed Alnami, have names similar to individuals listed in public records as using the same address inside the base. In addition, a man named Saeed Alghamdi graduated from the Defense Language Institute at Lackland Air Force Base in San Antonio, while men with the same names as two other hijackers, Mohamed Atta and Abdulaziz Alomari, appear as graduates of the U.S. International Officers School at Maxwell Air Force Base, Ala., and the Aerospace Medical School at Brooks Air Force Base in San Antonio, respectively.

Mohamed Atta isn't he the mastermind?

Remember that suspicious bin Laden "confession" video?
# How could he praise uninvolved living people (12) for the 9/11 hijackings?
# If they stole identities, how did the FBI identify those passengers as terrorists?
Not by flight calls, which contradict the FBI (13) information!

Hear the siren it's time for all good morlocks to follow their leader to the supper table, fresh innocence is being served.

So what do you think we'll be allowed to know about this case?
They could've had a bag of fertilizer sitting in their garage. Will we ever know?

Posted by: neutralsam at June 3, 2006 2:38 PM

ex-liberal. We've been through this debate before and I'm not getting into it. I've said before that the Israeli-Palestinian situation is about land and the rights of citizenship and nationhood - on both sides. It has nothing to do with fascism or islamofascism. I don't agree with Israel's rejection of Palestinian rights to nationhood and to land rights; I don't agree with the occupation or settlements; I don't agree with the Israeli religion-state merger. There's no point in you or I going into this debate with each other for we have very different views.

Islamofascism is very real; it isn't a myth; it's a symptom of a dysfunctional socioeconomic and political infrastructure, where a population in the millions is constrained, by force, within tribalism (only suitable for hundred thousands).

Kevin laddie. What is your proof that there is 'no such thing as islamofascism'? I'd really like to know what your proof is. Do you know what fascism means? Do you know what happens to a population that is constrained within a tribal socioeconomic and political infrastructure when it, by virtue of its population size, has to be democratic? Have you read the Koran? Do you know that it's really a rigid sociopolitical system that is unsuitable for a modern industrial socioeconomic system?

I'd bet you don't know a thing about different sociopolitical systems, do you? I'd bet you don't know a thing about the correlation between population size and economy, do you? I'd bet you don't know a thing about the correlation between sociopolitical sysem and population size, do you?

No, the islamofascist attacks are not due to Israel and Palestine. Most of the Arab states, as I said, don't give a damn about the Palestinians and their suffering. Islamofascism is an internal 'deep rot', within the Islamic states, due to its attempting to run a multimillion size population within a tribal infrastructure. That's the lid-on-the-steam.

steve d. If the Taliban are hosts to terrorists, they are de facto terrorists themselves. Just because you have someone else do the 'hit job' for you, doesn't absolve you of responsibility.

Posted by: ET at June 3, 2006 2:40 PM


Oh you werent kidding....

The United States hasnt seen an attack since 9/11 so what is the conclusion....we stayed out of Iraq, apparently that didnt buy us anything did it?

And this apparently has been planned for years, before we took an increased presence. And afghanistan is considered generally a success.

Answer the following, should we have gotten involved in Yugoslavia where we STOPPED the alleged slaughtering of Muslims. Would it have been a rational response for Serbian nationalists (sometimes known as Serbian fascists) to accumulate 3 tonnes of anfo to blow up a building in toronto...would that have been justified and explainable as a "natural response" Should the tibetan community in Toronto blow up the Chinese embassy, is that a rational response, would we be wrong to arrest them for doing so or would we be wrong if we let them go?

To be as morally confused as you must be difficult. To indicate this is a rational response is delusionary and idiotic.

While this has nothing to do Afghanistan, but you insist it does, then ask the Afghani people if they are better off.

As for exists just as other forms of fascism exist. It never means that all Muslims are fascists, no different than the KKK means all protestant Christians are fascists.

See them for what they are, there is a terrible ideology out there that quite frankly wouldnt see any difference between you and me. Too bad you cant see the difference in them.

Posted by: Stephen at June 3, 2006 2:42 PM

Thank God that we have a conservative government with a genuine concern for our security. A fantastic job by all of them.

If the liberano wingnuts were still in power, a Shelia Copp’s type would have announced an order for a million or so basketballs with a Canadian flag on them to give to all of the poor disenfranchised Muslims who cannot stand this country and our freedoms to take their mind off all of their fictious suppressions

Dryden and Bennett would have announced a further $10 billion for child care to make sure that parents do not bring up criminals and Cotler would have cut the security forces budget in half to pay for it because all we have is imaginary crime. Carolyn Parrish would be shouting from the tree tops about all of this being Bush’s fault.

Perhaps all those who will be crying racism and the evils of focusing only on those with a Muslim sounding name should get a soother with the maple leaf on it.

I hope this is a wakeup call for all the liberanos and flapjack dippers but I somehow doubt it. This is the attack that was foiled. Sooner or later one will succeed, then they will be crying out how Stephen Harper did not do anything and where is the military when we need them!

Posted by: Moz at June 3, 2006 2:47 PM

stephen - very nice analysis.

Posted by: ET at June 3, 2006 2:50 PM

I have an idea.
Why don't we split this into two separate threads?One for the hyper-leftist,right-hating button pushers and those who wish to waste their time going in endless circles with them.
On the other,anyone who wants to discuss this historic developing story and it's implications for our future.
Anyways,...knowing the bravado stunts many male teens get hyped by these days,I hope we see no violence on Ontario streets as a backlash to Muslims.But,I also fully expect Muslim leaders to be pro-active in exposing these cockroaches to the light and denouncing al Qaeda.

Posted by: Canadian Observer at June 3, 2006 2:52 PM


So the US does good for the world when they assinate the elected leaders of countries so they can set up they puppets?
Montt, General Efrain Rios, Guatemala
Videla, General Jorge Rafael, Argentina
Somoza, Anastasio, Sr, Nicaragua
Somoza, Anastasio Jr, Nicaragua
Pinochet, General Augusto, Chile
Martinez, General Maximiliano Hernande, El Salvador
Christiani, Alfredo, El Salvador

This is just a few of US supporters that gained power with US help.

Everyone keeps blaming the Taliban how come they never take any bows for the attack, I did see an interview where Osama said he or Al Qaeda had nothing to do with it, wonder why the media doesn't show that film?

Posted by: neutralsam at June 3, 2006 2:53 PM

Moz, I hoped this would be a wake-up call to my friends on the Left, too.

It's looking less and less like it as the day goes on.

Kevin, you're a disgrace to the Left.

And Joe Canuck, this surveillance started when the Liberals were in power - grow up already. Martin may be a tool, but he and Harper *both* interested in NOT seeing Canadians blown up in the street.

Posted by: Jason D at June 3, 2006 2:54 PM

The attacks of 9/11 which took the lives of dozens of Canadians happened BEFORE Iraq and BEFORE Afghanistan.

What was the terrorist's excuse then?

Posted by: Lorraine at June 3, 2006 2:59 PM

After 911 a lot of smug U of T students used a CBC "town hall" to rave on about how the Americans (ignoring the innumerable other nationalities killed in the WTC) had gotten what they deserved in the WTC attacks. I wonder how many of those same students will now rave on about how Toronto deserves a 3-ton ANFO explosion for its obviously evil ways??? Should I hold my breath?

Posted by: DrD at June 3, 2006 3:03 PM

Terry Gain...

Culture will evolve by itself. It is an effect of an aggregation of many individual activities. You cannot orchestrate - you let it evolve.

That's why I care not about culture. Let the creative create and if I like what they produce, I will buy it.

Hoisting multiculturalism is a shell-game perpetrated on us by Tru-dough and the like. Canadians fell for it because of their envy of the success of America. We are reaping the harvest today.

No government program will create culture. Culture evolves as in an ecosystem.

Culture is simple: buy what you like, don't buy what you don't like. The good will survive. The junk will fade. No need to promote, celebrate.

The Librano Multicult mask has fallen today. Once again, I do not care where you come from, what religion you practice, what you listen to, what you put on stage, how you dance. It matters not. Do what you like. I'm not going to celebrate it because I am too busy doing my own thing. But obey our laws.

Cudos to the RCMP and CSIS for doing their jobs and saving innocent lives.

Posted by: shaken at June 3, 2006 3:10 PM

Jason D. It is people like you that have got this country in trouble. You sir are the narrow minded one. So, it is my own oppinion that I believe that the Liberal's have got us into this mess(ie: immigration policies). On a day like today, we should be counting our blessing for the RCMP and CCIS. You have attacked just about everyone that posts regularly on this site. This will be my last reference to you Sir! Now I think I will find myself some Quack Milk!

Posted by: Jason D at June 3, 2006 3:13 PM

Stephen Harper just said they hate us for our "diversity". My head asplode.

Posted by: Bob at June 3, 2006 3:15 PM

How can anyone here,right or left,claim to be knowledgeable about terrorism in Canada's past if they are not even aware of the largest mass murder in Canadian history.
DO NOT forget the 1986 MASSACRE of 329 mostly CANADIAN men,women and children aboard an Air India 747 caused by a terrorist's bomb planted at Vancouver!!

Posted by: Canadian Observer at June 3, 2006 3:22 PM

Re: Post to Jason D.(I do not know how his name ended in the post section)
That post was from MaryM

Posted by: MaryM at June 3, 2006 3:24 PM

Culture will evolve by itself. shaken


Culture does not evolve by itself. Go ask the French and Dutch (out of public hearing) whether they agree with that.

The evolution of culture depends on many things not the least of which are immigration patterns. If you import people who do not assimilate but retain a culture with incompatible values you will end up with just the sort of alien-nation (sic)they have in England and what we may have here- if these guys are homegrown.

You can of course believe otherwise depending upon the extent to which your thought processes are affected by political correctness- a very strong motivator as no one likes to be called a bigot.

Posted by: Terry Gain at June 3, 2006 3:31 PM

CBCpravdas take on it . note the use of quotes to make it look just not so bad.

'Serious' bomb plot in Canada averted: police
Police say they have prevented a major bomb plot from being carried out in southern Ontario with the arrests of 17 people, including five youths, in the Toronto area. more »

weren't the Liberanos supported by the Tamil Tigers and visa versa.

Posted by: cal2 at June 3, 2006 3:32 PM

I just noticed parts of my last post are missing and parts are added.
Must be the traffic.

Posted by: neutralsam at June 3, 2006 3:34 PM

For all those lefty disbelievers who have posted I would pose this question:

"What possible peaceful purpose could one have with 3 tonnes of ammonium nitrate within an urban landscape of the Greater Toronto Area?"

If the accused suggest it was for their apartment planter box, one might be suspicious.

If they had this much stuff on a farm in Saskatchewan, hat tip to KATE, at least it might pass a plausibility test. I would like to hear the explanation of those duly accused and charged.

Posted by: Hans Rupprecht at June 3, 2006 3:39 PM

The ghosts of Multi-Cult come home to roost.

Posted by: Bosworth at June 3, 2006 3:41 PM

I did a little browsing around the web site using the addresses listed on the RCMP press release:

1: 3 ROBBINSTONE DR, MLS #E906856, Price $269,000 (could not find Robinstone Dr)
2: 3864 PERIWINKLE CRES, MLS# W904147, Price $399,000
3: 7301 ROSEHURST DR, MLS# W903687, Price $383,000
4: 7271 LOWVILLE HTS, MLS# W907884, Price $319,900
5: #65-5610 MONTEVIDEO RD, MLS # W846692, Price $208,900 (twelve listings on Montevideo drive, ranging in price from $208,900 to $230,900)
6: Kingston, Ontario no street address given
7: Kingston, Ontario no street address given
8: #703 - 121 TRUDELLE ST, MLS# E887354, Price $116,900 (seven listings on Trudelle St, ranging in price from $116,900 to $230,000)
9: Stonehill Court, Toronto, No Listings
10: 151 TREVERTON DR, MLS# E885239, Price $271,500
11: 2214 ROBIN DR, MLS# W875750, Price $869,000
12: Eclipse Avenue, Mississauga, No Listings

By the age of the arrested, I doubt any of them owned homes, but their parents seem to live in comfortable middle class neighbourhoods.

Reminds me of that Sesame Street song:
Oh, who are the people in your neighborhood?
In your neighbourhood?
In your neighbourhood?
Say, who are the people in your neighborhood?
The people that you meet each day.

Posted by: qwerty at June 3, 2006 3:45 PM

Terry, we'll have to agree to disagree. Two different paths of logic take us to the same place. The Multicult eunomia is just a wet-dream. The Libranos exploited the Canadian angst for an identity, and dealt us Anti-American and Multicult Snake Oil. It was purchased by the gallon by the MSM, Pravda, and Toronto voters.

Libranos didn't give a damn who they let in, or what they did when they got here, just as long as they voted Librano, and brought up their next generation to vote Librano.

To the leftie appeasers trolling this blog, maybe one of them can give us the bottom line answer with respect to what appeasement exactly will stop the Islamic Suicide cult and bring about World Peace.

Is it - stop using oil? stop trading with America? let Israel fall? convert to Islam? just exactly what appeasement do the appeasers claim will put a stop to this? I've never heard anyone from the left stake their credibility on an overarching strategy to deal with the problem. Instead, we are fed piecemeal tactical imperatives - "must get out of Afghanistan", "must get out of Iraq", "must get America out of Arabia", "must use windmills", "must distance ourselves from America", "must coddle the poor misguided and abused souls". Rubbish.

Here is an overarching strategy: We fight to crush them. There is no other strategy that stop the Religion of Pieces.

Posted by: shaken at June 3, 2006 3:46 PM

"...soldiers here with guns'.

In Brampton, Ontario, Canada.

In Toronto, Ontario, Canada.

Muslim terrorists, here with with 3 tons of fertilizer/explosive devices and more.

Farooq here in Canada: this is ridiculous.

"They've got soldiers here with guns."

Farooq, the atmosphere has changed.

Here in Canada.

Soldiers with guns.

Echo says: "Soldiers with guns. In our cities. In Canada." H/T AdScam Liberal Kelowna Accord Martin.

Farooq is a lawyer. ...

Huge bomb planned: police
“This group posed a real and serious threat,” says senior RCMP officer
Jun. 3, 2006. 03:24 PM



"Pointing at snipers on the roof, Farooq, who would not name his clients, said: “This is ridiculous. They’ve got soldiers here with guns. This is going to completely change the atmosphere.”

Posted by: maz2 at June 3, 2006 3:46 PM

"What possible peaceful purpose could one have with 3 tonnes of ammonium nitrate within an urban landscape of the Greater Toronto Area?"

Three things:
1) I have not seen so much as a bag of fertilizer, and place little credibility in CSIS and its right-wing, American style agenda.

2) Now lets assume they do have three tonnes. SO WHAT? My garage contains gasoline, fertilizer, a blow torch, a chain-saw, and all kinds of other goodies that a nutcase with an imagination could have a lot of fun with. But so what? Its not against the law to own any of those, and (assuming the so-called suspects do own the fertilizer) their only crime appears to be owning some plant food while having brown skin, and 5 syylabel names. Real strong case. :-S

3) Finally, let's assume that this wildgoose chase you right-whingers want to embark on concludes the "terrorists" did indeed plan to strike in Toronto? SO WHAT? We (Harper McBush and co.) brought this upon ourselves. If someone was bombing the shit out of my homeland, I'd probably be pretty pissed off too. If America had not been meddeling in the affairs of the midddle east, they would never have been hit on 9/11. If Spain had not joined in the illegal and immoral war on Iraq, they would never have been attacked on 3/11. Now, for fucks sakes, lets use some intelligence, and ask ourselves whether we would rather be like Spain, or Amerika?

Posted by: Kevin_Laddle at June 3, 2006 3:54 PM

Nice, MaryM - but you're lyin'.

See, you didn't equate Liberal immigration policies to what almost happened in Toronto - because I'd AGREE with you on that count.

No, you think that if the Liberals were in power (and thank god they're gone) that these terrorists just wouldn't have been caught. Nevermind that surveillance began while the L's were in power - just pretend you didn't hear that part.

Nice work in the logic department, MaryM! Congrats.

Posted by: Jason D at June 3, 2006 3:55 PM

There's a reason why Carolyn Parrish used to put pictures of herself wearing a headscarf on her visits to Palestine in her Report from Parliment. It wasn't because of her fashion sense.

Posted by: DDT at June 3, 2006 3:57 PM

new kid on the block, Jason:
I have an old friend, ex-RCMP, ex-CSIS. He's been retired for over 20 years. He has repeatedly told me about political interference.

This may sound totally paranoid but I;ve never ben able to shake the feeling that the Air India bombing investigation was subject to political interferrence. Big Sikh support for Libranos in BC. And let's not forget the Libranos/Tamils connection.

Jason: Mary's question whether or not we would have this outcome under Martin is not an unsound one!

Posted by: Me No Dhimmi at June 3, 2006 3:59 PM


I will tell you this. There are a lot of Canadians who would plant IED's too if we were occupied. What you see as terrorism, they see as patriotism, or infidels vs muslims, or the people who killed my brother,son or daughter getting what they deserve, revenge. If you don't think revenge is a strong motivator just remember that is what caused the Haditha massacre.

Terry Gain

"selfless humanitarian aid never comes with guns blazing. The American government doesn't engage in selfless aid, that is just a dream born of propaganda. There is no evidence for it.

Looking for motivations and explanations is just good police work. It is what they do. Maybe you don't like it, but it helps the police to know how and why things happen.

You can leave,we will anyway, and still monitor. This is the age of satellites and drones and renewed appreciation for human intelligence.
We can leave and monitor. When the terrorists come out of their caves we can hit them, as opposed to dragging thousands of troops into a country angering the population. It is far more efficient to watch them electronically and using informants then sending in armies. Unless of course, you have deeper more sinister aims and we don't because we are the good guys, at least that is what the mantra is. There is some evidence to show the sinister side which we don't want to look at too closely, although the other side focuses on it. We focus on their bad and they focus on our bad and the twain shall never meet. Hmmm, I wonder why we don't understand each other? No, I guess its easier to just keep blowing each others people up, for the time being at least.

Posted by: steve d. at June 3, 2006 4:01 PM

Kudos to the men and women of law enforcement.

After reading many comments from various websites I've noticed this pattern of what should be done with these terrorist thugs.

Conservative plan:

Charge them.
Convict them.
If convicted, Execute them.

End Result: Show the islamofascists we mean business.

Liberal/NDP plan:

Make sure they are comfortable and their feelings weren't hurt.
Give them a toll-free phone number in case someone wants to call and talk about their feelings.
Give them the best representation possible at the taxpayers expense.
If convicted, make sure they do their time in a resort-like prison with cable tv and internet access.

End Result: Show the world we're a bunch of pussies.

Posted by: NICK at June 3, 2006 4:01 PM

I'm no expert, but how in the world would you move 3 tons of explosives in the subway system? "TTC employee: Excuse me sir, but that backpack looks awful heavy, can I offer you some help?" Do they have evidence Toronto was the target? Ottawa, Kingston, Montreal all within comfortable driving distance.

Nice to see that not all our taxes get wasted, way to go RCMP, CSIS and all concerned.

Posted by: Maple stump at June 3, 2006 4:09 PM

kevin-laddle. So far, you aren't making any sense. You are just 'preaching'; that is, asserting your opinions without providing any empirical and/or logical grounds.

You haven't answered any questions put to you. Again, what is your proof that Islamofascism doesn't exist? Please provide proof. Provide proof that it's a 'myth'.

Your garage contents are immaterial. Do you have 3 tons of ammonium nitrate?

Please provide proof that 'we have brought this (terrorist attacks) on ourselves. You assert that it's 'because we are in Afghanistan'.
Please provide proof that the individuals arrested are from Afghanistan, AND, are members of the tribal groups fighting the democratically elected Afghan government. Remember, we are supporting the democratically elected Afghan government. Please provide proof both that the detainees are from Afghanistan AND are supporters of the tribal militants and not the elected government.

Provide proof that 9/11 was caused by the US 'meddling' in the affairs of the ME. The UN 'meddles' there as well. Have all the countries of the UN been attacked for their sanctions on Iraq?

Bin Laden, after all, wants to set up a totalitarian fundamentalist regime in the ME. Do you agree with such an agenda? If so, Why?
Do you support the regime of Saddam Hussein? Why?

Posted by: ET at June 3, 2006 4:15 PM

Toronto Mayor David Miller: (Farooq told me months ago.)

Translation of this whimpering, simpering cant from the red socialist, Mayor Miller:

I just about relieved myself when Farooq told me. Today, Red Miller relieved himself. ...

"I was relieved that police had discovered the activities at a very early stage," he told a news conference. "I was relieved on behalf of Torontonians because I knew because of the police activities that if there was an actual threat they would be able to stop it before anything serious happened."

Posted by: maz2 at June 3, 2006 4:16 PM

kevin: are you serious, wake up & give your brain some air. Try to imagine if they had suceeded then what & who would you blame it on. These are extremist that do not care about you or anyone else, they only beleive in one thing, A World Without Christians or any other society that does not conform to their idealologies. So dont blame world leaders for these actions, there is a war on, brought on by these extremist & it will only increase, so get your head out of the sand & stop blaming western leaders.

Posted by: bryanr at June 3, 2006 4:24 PM

"are you serious, wake up & give your brain some air. Try to imagine if they had suceeded then what & who would you blame it on."

YOur fucking right im serious. You want to know who I would blame it on had they suceeded? The same FUCKING people I'm blaming it on right now; war mongering neo-cons like you, who are cheering on our troops as they wage war on muslim farmers and sheep herders in Afganistan. Get your head out of the sand, and take a look at what's really going on.

Posted by: Kevin_Laddle at June 3, 2006 4:32 PM

steven d: your long distance high-tech solution reminds me of the stupidest thing a smart friend ever said to me re: Saddam when I cornered him and asked him if he was glad that Saddam was gone. He was, but ... wait for it ... he thought a special ops team was all that was needed. Too much TV, too many Hollywood flicks, I guess. Zero understanding of the length, breadth and depth of a police state. Sigh.

Posted by: Me No Dhimmi at June 3, 2006 4:32 PM

A post at "The Torch":

'"Home-grown terrorism": Our new mission in Afstan not the cause'

And a fortuitous major article by Stewart Bell, "Nevermind foreign terrorists, why is Canada growing its own extremists?"


Posted by: Mark Collins at June 3, 2006 4:34 PM

ET: Good. Yes, we need to simply question the loony left more often. Just question and listen to the sound of silence.

Reading a bunch of Austrian school economics lately and either Bahm-Bawerk or von Mises said this: "Socialists are excellent critics but poor theorists." Bingo.

Posted by: Me No Dhimmi at June 3, 2006 4:37 PM

Kevin is even being taken down a notch or 2 on his homefields at Babble and enmesse er The left is in bad shape if Kevvy is their shining light of reason.

Posted by: Bosworth at June 3, 2006 4:39 PM

Kate, I see that you caught this:

Three Tonnes of Ammononium Nitrate Were Seized

As you point out, that is three times the amount used to destroy the Murrah building at Oklahoma City.

"Threat Watch" has more:

Posted by: Chris from Victoria, BC at June 3, 2006 4:39 PM

Oh for heavens sake; if we adopt Kevin's ideas we can all become "small dead animals" but unfortunately no one will be able to write the 'road kill diaries'.

Posted by: Hans Rupprecht at June 3, 2006 4:41 PM

More names:

Mohamed Attiah
Samir Ait Mohamed
Ali Adham Amhaz
Hassan Almrei
Mahmoud Jaballah
Mohamed Zeki Mahjoub
Ahmad Sa'id al-Khadr
Mouhamedou Ould Slahi
Amid Farid Rizk

Canadian terror cell backgrounder (ctv background)
CTV ^ | recently | Lorraine Passchier - CTV

Posted on 06/03/2006 1:22:45 PM PDT by xcamel

Links to global terror surface in Canada
Lorraine Passchier,

The ranks of al-Qaeda's mujahideen seem far away from the urban streets of Toronto, Montreal, or Vancouver. But a dragnet unleashed in the days following the attacks on the New York World Trade Center and the Pentagon is uncovering remnants of al-Qaeda's holy war here at home. ...

Posted by: maz2 at June 3, 2006 4:53 PM

Me No dhimmi - right. Leftists simply don't understand the structure of a police state. If you just had Tom Cruise zip in and zap Hussein the result would have been disaster; Hussein's guys would have called in their military thugs to violently repress the civilian population.

Look how hard it is now, for Iraq to pull itself into a mode of self-governance. There were no infrastructures for it; there was just a dictator, his military and his sons and family. Period. I think that Iraq is doing a phenomenal job; it ought to take a generation; give them five years at least!

But the left is strange; they expect instant 'fixes', just like being instantly served in a restaurant.

Posted by: ET at June 3, 2006 4:54 PM

Kevin, which is harder to believe

1) That a grand conspiracy involving 3 regional police forces, 1 provincial police force, 1 national police force, 1 national security agency 1 municipality, 1 provincial government and 1 national government (all of different political stripes) 100's of personel all conspired to frame 17 brown skinned people with Muslim last names with no evidence to keep the a populace compliant with Buch McChimpy

2) 17 individuals infected with an extreme ideology accumulate easy to find materials to build a bomb.

Which one requires more faith and twisted logic, paranoia and mental illness to believe?

or let me put it in terms you'll of these things is not like the other one of these things doesnt belong.....

Posted by: Stephen at June 3, 2006 4:57 PM

Wow. Usually when you hear the words "Major bust in Ontario", you think drugs first off, and then maybe Pamela Anderson visiting after that, but terror?

Posted by: Daryl at June 3, 2006 5:01 PM

It was interesting to see Tarak Fateh of the Muslim Canadian Congress this morning on Newsnet. He said that five years after 9/11, something isn't working ... I was encouraged because he seemed to imply that moderate Muslims have a responsibility to reclaim their religion, but then he invoked the name of W.

As if this attack wouldn't have been attempted if John Kerry won the White House.

It's vital that Muslims stop using Bush as a punching bag rather than taking a good hard look in the mirror.

Posted by: Road Hammer at June 3, 2006 5:04 PM

2 muslims were arreted in Georgia last year, still in jail, have connections to those arrested in yesterdays raid. The FBI is following this and the connections. CNN has much better reporting. If it is right that these were home grown terrorists, born in Canada,then Canada is their home land, and they were going to blow up something in their home land. No one is bombing the hell out of their homeland. Muslims are not mistreated in their homeland, Canada. What is the biography of any of those arrested, someone must have found out something about them. Are any of them Teachers, Professors, members of CUPE, employed in sensative areas of our govt. How many of those siding with these plotters live or work in or near the intended targets. If the blast occured while they were working, would they change their opinions. I hope our justice system refuses bail, of at least 10million each, and keeps them in jail. It is obvious that many have no idea of what 3T of fertilizer is or how much it costs. CNN is going to have an indepth report on this plot. Seems they have more info than we do. One T is over 2000 lbs, so who needs 6000lbs of fertilizer for a windobox. And, it would not fit in a garage. Who reported the potential order, they need the Order of Canada. Video of those arrested shows them smiling and not looking too upset. We need names and photos published so those that know them can assist in the investigation. To Kevin: Russian diplomat killed and 4 kidnapped in Iraq. When did the russians send troops to Iraq. Blows your argument all to hell. Remember, the liberals, under Chretain sent our troops to Afganistan before Martin was elected, therefore before Harper was PM. And he did it to keep us out of Iraq for oil. The contracts his daughters in-laws had with Saddam for oil.

Posted by: maryT at June 3, 2006 5:07 PM

Here's one for all the Morlocks out there.

Lets say you were living in Germany. Germany and France attacked and occupied Canada, killing whole families, for attacking Paris. Lets say some Mexican flew a plane into the eiffel tower, knocking it down. After awhile you learn that your government is lying to you and the world, France let it happen so they could retake Canada. The murders, of women and children are increasing in Canada, What would you and your Canadian school friends talk about?
Where is all this ammonium nitrate? Why did they use props in the photos?
Is this a bunch of high school kids talking about the injustice being done to muslims. Wait the US intelligence provided the evidence for the arrests???

Posted by: neutralsam at June 3, 2006 5:13 PM

Being white and from a protestant sect of Christianity I would have no problem condeming or outing members of the KKK.

So there should be no problem with the Muslim community doing the same to their equivalent.


1) They are being threatened into silence, a distinct possibility that is apparently going on in the Tamil community

2) They agree with the goals of the extremists

3) They dont care about the results of actions by people claiming to speak for them

Posted by: Stephen at June 3, 2006 5:13 PM

Kevin, why don't you write a polemic on the "root causes of terror"? Oh wait, that's Jack Layton's job...


Posted by: Bruce at June 3, 2006 5:16 PM

"There are a lot of Canadians who would plant IED's too if we were occupied. What you see as terrorism, they see as patriotism"

Hey, Steve, I forgot to pass on the message that came for you. The public affairs manager for "Standard Liberal Responses" called. They asked you to replace page A14D of the "Standard responses to Islamic outrage" file. They said that it can't really be used in the case of homegrown terrorists.

They'll be sending something a bit more appropriate for your dissemination later in the evening. Until then, just rely on page A1 - just blame everything on one or the other (or both) of the Bushes.

Posted by: patrick at June 3, 2006 5:40 PM

Shaken: Good post, especially your question about exactly what it will take to make "peace" with radical Islam. It's the question the left never answers. How exactly do we do it -- more gay pride parades? -- the Taliban hanged gays from the goal posts of soccer stadiums; bring in Sharia law? -- and then I presume Judy Rebbick will be comfortable with having rape victims stoned to death?; become atheists like Svend -- which the Koran demands be punished by death?; convert to Islam? -- which version? Sunni or Shiite? -- they fight each other mercilessly. How about fundamentalist Wahabism? -- is Jack Layton going to tell Olivia "Geez Honey, you know that political career you've been pursuing? Well, shucks, there's been a change in plan -- in the name of getting along. You know what it's like. Oh and by the way, you know those clothes you've been wearing . . . outside the house; well, I've got the latest style for you to try on. It's called a chador; heck Belinda's wearing it!!!!"
Not b%@#&y likely!!!

Posted by: DrD at June 3, 2006 5:43 PM


Pardon me, but what the hell are you going on about?

(Sorry, Kate.)

Posted by: JJM at June 3, 2006 5:44 PM

Does it bother anyone that the father of one of the alleged terrorists (Shareef Abdelhaleen) is an engineer with Atomic Energy of Canada?

Posted by: Light's On at June 3, 2006 5:49 PM

If anyone says that a major cause creating the alleged terrorist group busted in Ontario June 2 is our combat mission at Kandahar (and our help thereby to President Bush's "Global War on Terrorism"), then that person is either:

a) ill-informed, or
b) deliberately mendacious, or
c) both.

The investigation of the group began well over a year ago when our troops were in Kabul—under NATO—essentially doing peacekeeping and not combat. The new mission to Kandahar had not even been announced. The Kabul mission itself was almost without controversy, except for criticism of Canadian Forces' equipment such as the Iltis jeep.

To think that that mission could in any way be a major motivator for the alleged terrorists srikes me as simply nonsensical—and likely dishonest. I hope—but do not expect—our media to raise these facts when "experts", or "representatives" of the Muslim community, raise the supposed link.


Posted by: Mark Collins at June 3, 2006 5:54 PM

The photo in today's newspaper of the articles seized from the terrorists include:
1. A transistor radio battery pack.
2. A multimeter
3. A soldering iron.

Way to go, CSIS & RCMP! (Hey- any of you people ever had REAL JOBS?)

Posted by: davie at June 3, 2006 6:08 PM

Was it to deep for you jim?

Seems like a simple question.

What do we know about this incident? a bunch of kids were talking on the internet 2 were older then 30, the rest were collage age and younger. Who odered the ammonium nitrate, where was it sent to?
We do know that the US has had 2 guys in custody for the past year, that they may or may not have tortured.
Are these kids in a muslim anti war group?

If you haven't learnt by now to double check everything the US says then there might not be any hope for you.

Posted by: neutralsam at June 3, 2006 6:13 PM

Excuse me for butting in, have been reading and would like to offer some information for your consideration.

First, I'm a hardrock miner with a blasting ticket. Been working with blasting agents for many years, am certified on bulk loading equipment and have set up many longhole blasts using a few tons of explosives.

So yes, I'm familiar with what three tons of ANFO can do. And if somebody set off three tons at once on a Toronto street, there would be a large crater that would be quickly filled with falling debris from collapsing buildings. However, for maximum effect, setting the explosive off in the Toronto subway system would give a greater return in destructive effect. Any confinement of a blast increases the effects. Depending on where and when the blast was set off, you could see a greater death toll than 9/11. As well as destroying the subway, the blast could cause surface damage. I would expect to see roads and buildings in the blast area fall into the crater, or at least be severely affected to the point where they would be declared unsafe because of structural damage.

For those of you who think getting three tonnes of ANFO into the subway system is hard, let me point out that three tonnes is not a very large load. Three pallets, 120 50 pound bags, or (and this is how I would do it) 10 to 20 45 gallon steel drums. Fill the drums, seal them, paint them to look like regular drums of grease and oil that the TTC uses, and it would be fairly easy to get them into place. IF and I repeat IF you were weren't expecting to get away, all you'd have to do is replace a regular maintanence crew... and enter the system from a maintanence yard on a work train...

Posted by: Miner at June 3, 2006 6:16 PM

"If someone was bombing the shit out of my homeland, I'd probably be pretty pissed off too.
Kevin Laddle"


You can pretend the Americans are not giving blood and treasure to stop the killing which has been going on in Iraq for the past 25 years but that isn't true.

You can also pretend that the people doing the killing are patriots but that too isn't true. (Really Kevin you would kill innocent people to prevent your country from becoming a democracy?)

You can believe that 99% of the killing of innocent Iraqis isn't by anti-democracy Islamic terrorists who kill because they fear democracy but what you believe isn't true.

And finally Kevin you can pretend that you aren't part of the probelem but that too isn't true because the killing will stop as soon as they realize they can't win but with people like you cheeering them on why would they give up? They don't have to win over there if they can win over here.

Your anti-Americanism is not without consequences.

Posted by: Terry Gain at June 3, 2006 6:16 PM

"Does it bother anyone that the father of one of the alleged terrorists (Shareef Abdelhaleen) is an engineer with Atomic Energy of Canada?"

"....Shareef Abdelhaleen is a 30-year-old unmarried computer programmer of Egyptian descent, Galati said. He emigrated from Egypt at the age of 10 with his father who is now an engineer on contract with Atomic Energy of Canada, the lawyer said..."

Map 17 - ROBIN DRIVE (C2)
Map 18 – AECL (B2)

Posted by: JM at June 3, 2006 6:23 PM

CP is spreading lies/disinformation.

CP says: "Bust". Minimizing the scale/size of this operation. As said above, this was not a drug "bust". This was a major anti-terrorism operation involving 400 operatives from several different agencies/forces/police forces.

CP says: "allegations". There are no allegations. All terrorists have been charged with various offences under Canadian law. Down-playing the seriousness of these terrorist charges.

CP says: "17". Wrong. Latest reports say 22, which includes 5 minors who cannot be named due to the asinine "Young Offenders Act".

CP says: "people". Wrong. Islamist terrorists. Political correctness? Fear?

Major terror bust in Ontario
TORONTO (CP) - The lingering threat of global terrorism became a concrete reality for Canadians on Saturday following allegations that 17 people plotted an imminent attack with three times the explosive material used in the devastating Oklahoma City bombing. via canoe news

Posted by: maz2 at June 3, 2006 6:24 PM


What do we do about radical Islam?
As Dr.Phil would ask,"How's your present policy working for ya?" Hmmm, not so much?
Attacks are increasing both in Afghanistan and Iraq. World wide terror attacks have increased from 3 to over 11 thousand since Bush declared war on terror.
So should we "stay the course?" The course is leading to disaster.
First, we have to get out of Afghanistan and Iraq, ASAP. The Americans can help finance the rebuilding of these two countries.
When the American and Nato forces move out and internal uprisings and politics stabilize the UN should mediate any final political governments with the view to long term stability.
America won't like this, but there has to be international laws regarding how states interact. Violence from outside should only happen with the approval of the rest of the world. Internal uprisings should be dealt with after similar agreements. Pre-emptive attacks must be outlawed. If states were allowed to proceed without outside interference there would be far less conflict and terrorism.
The following website is an extreme example of what I mean by outside interference. No one has as much ability to do this sort of thing as the USA, but if you could imagine adding several more states into the mix described you can get an idea what smaller states have to contend with.
Again, I give this website not to freak out the Right wing bloggers but just as an illustration of the kind of power and influence large countries have over small ones.

A change in attitude would be a good start.

Posted by: steve d. at June 3, 2006 6:30 PM

new kid and mary, giving harper credit for the arrests today is as ridiculous as blaming him for the terrorists in the first place.nonetheless, i'm glad the coppers got these guys.

Posted by: davidson at June 3, 2006 6:32 PM

These terrorists have been well trained/brainwashed/educated/ and more by their handlers.

Who are their handlers? Imams? Undercover agent/terrorists from abroad: Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, India, Iran, Egypt... the USA ????

Which mosques do they come from? Where are their mosques: Toronto,Brampton, Scarborough, Mississauga? Which Imams control these mosques?

Farooq is looking to sue; to find/bribe a friendly judge?

Korans demanded; cell phones next?

Send in bacon pizza and pork rinds, cold water....

Canadian Terror Suspects Demand Korans

Family members dressed in burqas are seething and whining, Muslim lawyers are already talking about suing the police, and the suspects arrested on terror-related charges in Ontario are demanding to be given copies of the Koran.

Family members of some of the men facing terrorism-related charges - wives, mothers and fathers - met in the parking lot of a Brampton courthouse early this morning.

Standing behind a metal barricade police put up to seal off the court entrance, women dressed in burkas rubbed each other’s backs to console one another.

“I think there are a lot of people here today who should not be involved in this,” said Anser Farooq, a lawyer representing several of the accused. “I think they (the police) cast their net far too wide. We’ve been talking several lawsuits as a result of this action,” he said.

Security at the Hurontario St. courthouse was high. More than two dozen local and provincial police officers were guarding the courthouse when the families arrived. Snipers wearing camouflage were posted on the roof of the main building and on the roof of an adjacent building that normally houses family court. Members of the Peel police tactical team tightly controlled traffic entering the parking lot, and an officer with a submachinegun was posted in front of a roundabout leading to the main entrance.

OPP bomb sniffing dogs were also on scene, and as early as 8 a.m., police could be seen traversing the hallways of the courthouse sweeping the building for explosives.

Pointing at snipers on the roof, Farooq, who would not name his clients, said: “This is ridiculous. They’ve got soldiers here with guns. This is going to completely change the atmosphere.” ...

Handcuffed to one another and wearing leg irons the detainees stood silently while the justice of the peace remanded them into custody until June 6 when they are scheduled to reappear.

Through their lawyers, some complained about the conditions where they were held Friday night and asked that they be given copies of the Qur’an while in custody. LGF

Posted by: maz2 at June 3, 2006 6:43 PM


since you don't mind posting the same comment on two websites, I'll assume the same privilege and crosspost my reply to you:

"stop picking flyshit out of pepper. As you well know we became a target the day we turned active in the "War on Terrorism." We'll all know more when the applicable authorities let us know who we were a target for."

Posted by: agitfact at June 3, 2006 6:52 PM

davidson, If you read my posts no where did I give personal credit to PM Stephen Harper. I was questioning the leadership or lack off regarding the Liberal's!
Yes, I am 100% glad that Paul M. is not our leader at this moment!

Posted by: MaryM at June 3, 2006 6:53 PM

Steve D. So you believe that a change of attitude will fix it? I mean, after we fully retreat to within our own borders? After that, we change attitude? To what? To Dhimmitude? To abandon Israel? What new attitude?

International Laws? Upheld by whom?

I'm not willing to bet my life, nor the life of my family on your non-answer answer.

Posted by: shaken at June 3, 2006 6:55 PM

I heard that CSIS is monitoring web sites and blogs to find people who are supportive of the Canadian terrorists and who spew hatred of all things American or Western Democracy.

Gloating, cheering them on and making excuses for this extremism would qualify, I would guess, as being supportive.

Posted by: Lorraine at June 3, 2006 6:57 PM sources and MSM will later announce a grave mistake by RCMP/CSIS/OPP and so on...

This was a Liberal fund raiser BBQ

On a more serious note, these 'poor souls' will be released bail on good behavior and have to sit in on multiculturalism classes to understand the diverse commune...err communities we have here in Canada and how the Liberals were the nice people who allowed them into this country and to vote for them next time...

Posted by: tomax7 at June 3, 2006 7:06 PM

Background items on two of the arrested:

" Rocco Galati, lawyer for two of the Mississauga suspects, said Ahmad Ghany is a 21-year-old health sciences graduate from McMaster University in Hamilton. He was born in Canada, the son of a medical doctor who emigrated from Trinidad and Tobago in 1955.

Shareef Abdelhaleen is a 30-year-old unmarried computer programmer of Egyptian descent, Galati said. He emigrated from Egypt at the age of 10 with his father who is now an engineer on contract with Atomic Energy of Canada, the lawyer said."

H/T shlemazl

Posted by: qwerty at June 3, 2006 7:08 PM

To the apologists. The accused were not having their country occupied or blown up by the Americans. The accused's country is Canada. Therefore they should have been showing their commitment and loyalty to us. Those who feel getting the UN involved is the solution to everything forget that the insurgents in Iraq and Afghanistan have targetted UN resources precisely in order to get the UN out. And if the starting point to getting along with radical Islam is "getting out of Afghanistan and Iraq", what then is the ending point to getting along with radical Islam? The starting point for the Jews getting along with Adolph Hitler was getting into the boxcars. The ending point was . . .

Posted by: DrD at June 3, 2006 7:10 PM

What's wrong with people today. Totally off topic but something that disturbs me still, happened to me. To keep a long story short, I was installing cable and internet in a house in Alberta. After I installed the internet and was busy with the cable to the basement tv, four male teens (white)came out of a bedroom (that had a sweet smell coming from it as well)and sat down to the internet and proceeded right to Apparantly one of their buddies had heard of a beheading video displayed there.
These kids downloaded Nick Berg's death and watched it with a great stereo system turned way up. I thought to myself...what a sad state of affairs, I'm running cable and listening to Nick Berg scream in obvious pain as he gets his head sawed off. The teen's reaction? " cool man! Search the site to see if they have anymore man!" I'm sure that they had a full day ahead of them as I went upstairs while they were downloading Kenneth Bigley.
I have seen poor Nick's death and "cool man" isn't what came to mind.His screams will probably haunt me for years.

Posted by: multirec at June 3, 2006 7:11 PM

"Aly Hindy, an imam at a Toronto mosque, said he knew most of the accused and believed one or two were involved in crime but not terrorism.

One guy was doing some criminal activity, selling guns for money," he was quoted as saying by Reuters news agency outside the courtroom."

- A billion-dollar gun registry persecutes law-abiding Canadians and all the while a Toronto imam has personal knowledge of illegal gun trade. The road to hell is truly paved with the misguided good-intentions of the liberal left.

Posted by: RodF at June 3, 2006 7:21 PM

More on the poetry:

"Shunned by a philistine public, the poet believes that only death awaits him. But, by the very strength of his lines, he has staked his claim to immortality. We know now that he has something to give us. And if he has worn his heart a little too openly on his sleeve, it was only to leave more room for what he has, much less openly, strapped to his chest.
posted by Tim Blair at 7/22/2002 03:27:30 PM"

Tim Blair, an Australian blogger wrote this almost 4 years ago. Scary.

H/T: Andrew Coyne

Posted by: qwerty at June 3, 2006 7:22 PM

I don't think the 3 tons of ANFO was meant to be used in one large blast. It is more likely there would have been a co-ordinated series of attacks (an Al-Quaeda fave). Kevin_L, please don't stop posting. It is most illuminating to see the viewpoints of the left so clearly articulated!

Posted by: Huggybear99 at June 3, 2006 7:22 PM

Did I just read that one of the arrested man's father works for Canada's ATOMIC Energy Company????

On contract?

What kind of security checks are made on these people? Maybe there is much much more to this story.

Posted by: Lorraine at June 3, 2006 7:28 PM


The Canadian Men's footy team beat Trinidad in Port of Spain back in 1985.

It's all beginning to make sense!

I think I speak for all the lefty apologists when I say we became a target the day we beat T&T on their home turf.

Posted by: Mississauga Matt at June 3, 2006 7:32 PM

Lets break it down. Those who are part of the IFascist cult are more wedded to the umma, the worldwide muslim brotherhood, than they are to a country. So citizenship means nothing.

This is the claim to the Palestianians, they are muslims therefore they must be defended, even though Yassar Arafat and the Fatah party are/were secular socialist nationalists.

Listen to what OBL says, return of the caliphate, return of muslim lands....means not a bunch of nation states but a single muslim state. Of course Muslim lands, in the IFascist paradigm, is wherever muslims live and lived. So to start that means half of spain and up to the gates of Vienna.

Increasingly that will mean where they have immigrated to. This isnt an anti immigration tract this is to say this is what the IFascists believe, no different than the KKK believes in a catholic, jew, muslim, black, red and yellow free land.

This ideology will only grow unless it strikes steel, steel of a strong culture of liberal democracy and/or steel of military force. We can avoid military force largely by believeing and standing up for what got us here, and that soemtimes means the use of force to protect our liberal democracy.

Accomodation and appeasement doesnt get us anywhere, nor does picking unecessary fights with them. But this disease of fascism, and make no mistake it is fascistic with its racial and religous superiority, exclusionary and its imperial ambitions, must be confronted and snuffed out. How, well that is worthy of debate but the objective is not.

The "war" at home is ensuring those who transgress go to jail, for a long long time, and that those Muslims who respect the laws and culture of liberal democracy are welcomed and made a place for..they in fact will find a place like the millions who came before them.

We live is a society of innocence, check out Coynes site for how vulnerable a simple three block stretch in Toronto is. We should ask ourselves what the cost of remaining innocent is?

The intelligence and police services did us all a favour today, they did their job. For the moment we remain innocent.

Posted by: Stephen at June 3, 2006 7:36 PM

Having P.M. Harper has made a big difference. Seems he has made real changes.

I will no longer call you canukistan. Now if you could just put up the old 'red ensign' One that real men faught and died for.

This Yank remembers that Canada was in WW2 long before we were. And maybe those who remember those days will return and make Canada proud again. These arrests were a good start.

Posted by: yochanan at June 3, 2006 7:36 PM

davidson (June 3, 2006 06:32 PM) says to new kid: "giving harper credit for the arrests today is as ridiculous as blaming him for the terrorists in the first place."

What are you talking about, davidson? I haven't given PMSH credit for the arrests today. I haven't given anyone credit for the arrests today, though, like you, I'm very grateful they've been made: Well done, members of the RCMP and CSIS. You must be confusing me with someone else. This is a big post.

'Just finished listening to Lorna Jackson on the CBC, talking to a Muslim, natch. He's hopeful that Muslim taxi drivers won't be beaten up in Toronto or Montreal and says he hopes that the safety of Muslims isn't threatened.

COME AGAIN? Between 10 and 20 Muslims are planning to use three tons of explosives to, presumably, blow up a few city blocks of Toronto or a subway line, and all the CBC and the Muslim fellow they interviewed can worry about is whether the Muslim community is going to be safe???????? Jackson also interviewed some guy from the U.S., who kept calling today's charges against the arrested terrorists "allegations." He cautioned listeners to see if these "allegations" pan out in the next six months.

I knew it!! To the lefties, this incident is all about Muslim safety and sensibilities, not about the security and safety of Canadians, whatever their ethnic affiliation. 'Very little concern that we have found terrorist cells in Canada, planning, it seems, to inflict three times the damage of the Oklahoma City bombing, where 168 people were killed; they're mainly concerned about how to spin it so that the story is about minimizing giving offense to one of Canada's multicultural minorities.

What PLANET are these people on? What HALLUCINOGENIC, MIND-ALTERING DRUGS are they doing?

Not offending a minority, among whose number are members intent on inflicting major carnage on the Canadian population because of some alleged treatment of Muslims, is more important than delving into the actual accusations against the Muslim terrorists who were arrested this morning? Sparing Muslim sensibilities is more important than looking at the repercussions of the discovery of an Islamist terrorist cell in Toronto? The CBC needs a big-time reality check. They've really gone off the deep end.

This assinine approach to Islamist terrorism comes across as though the CBC is trying to appease the terrorists, who are not only at the gates but have actually got inside the citadel.
Do CBC personnel actually think that the guy/gal rolling the barrels of explosives into the subway (see Miner's post above) will contact all CBC employees to warn them of the impending explosion? Does the CBC think that if they treat the terrorists with kid gloves, CBC employees and their families will be exempt from the conflagration these terrorist cells are planning to inflict on Canadians?

Well, think again CBC Dhimmis. To these Islamist fanatics all non-Muslims are Dhimmis. Don't you get it? Ironically, every issue you defend such as feminism, abortion on demand, gay rights, etc. is total anathema to Muslims. No amount of appeasement on your part will prevent these terrorists from carrying out their evil plans. And what they're planning for us is evil.

Only staring these guys down will work. Only a resolve on our part to not be duped by "multiculturalism" or the idea that the sensibilities of a minority group can take precedence over a thorough defensive position on our part, for the security and safety of the whole nation, will pull us through.

Posted by: new kid on the block at June 3, 2006 7:39 PM

The bright ideas of the Right are making it worse. So perhaps the Right aught at least to be ready to listen to something other than,
"we're gonna stay the course"

So while the Right is snarling at the Left they are looking like asses because things have gotten continually worse.

800 attacks in Iraq last month were the worst in two years.
the fighting in Afghanistan is the worst since 2001
Hello? Anybody home? Is there an IQ above 80 who doesn't see the problem???
A least I say something besides, we're gonna stay the course! I have more ideas blogging than all the high paid help in Washington who keep playing the same old mantra, we're gonna...

"The war is over"
"The fighting will stop once we get Saddam"
Things will be better once we get the interim government set up
Things will get better once we get an elected assembly
Things will get better once we get a constitution
Things will get better once we get a democratic
Things will get better once we get the makeup of the government set
Things will get better once the government takes charge
Things will get better when...
we have more troops trained
more police trained
the water running
the electricity flowing
the medical clinics built
yada yada yada

and your ideas are?????????????????????????
I know don't tell me let me guess, "Stay the course!"

Posted by: steve d. at June 3, 2006 7:39 PM


I suspected you were a conspiracy nut.

Your response confirmed it.

Posted by: JJM at June 3, 2006 7:56 PM


O Jihadist... we're watching you... EVERYWHERE you are... we know who you are... we have cellphones and will call in the cavalry... which one of you is next? You? Better look over your shoulder, dung beetle dung. You will fail in your mission. Allah will not take mercy upon you. You will be punished in the worst possible way as prescribed by the Almighty God himself. You are scum; nay, you are scum to scum. Scum finds you disgusting and cleans you up. Oh, and, by the way, there aren't any virgins in paradise. Hell, there's no paradise. Your slavemasters just made it all up so they could control you fully and force you to do anything they order, including killing yourself. Fecking piece of crap loser, you are.

O Jihadist, submit to the power of freedom, democracy, the rule of law and human rights. Renounce Jihad. Assimilate fully and voluntarily into the Free World. Then and only then will we lay off our hands...

O Jihadist... surrender. Now.

Posted by: Canadian Sentinel at June 3, 2006 7:59 PM


forcing the enemy to laugh themselves to death is a cruel and inhuman weapon.

Posted by: agitfact at June 3, 2006 8:09 PM

Canadian Sentinel-
re: O jihadist
What does "O" really mean anyway?
Just wondering.

Posted by: red ant at June 3, 2006 8:10 PM

oops - now its our fault

Muslim Canadian Congress Blames Bush, Blair, and Harper

Posted by: Unclemeat at June 3, 2006 8:10 PM

We need an ammonium nitrate registry NOW!!!!!!!!

Posted by: Mississauga Matt at June 3, 2006 8:10 PM

Report: Al-Qaeda Allegedly Engaging In Telemarketing

Now this is getting nasty.

Posted by: red ant at June 3, 2006 8:20 PM

When did Canadians become so weak kneed?

I cannot believe that the lefts answer to terrorism is to become an isolationist society. That worked out well in our history books didn't it?

Looking at the papers it is a great day to be a Canadian. I came here and felt a bit of sadness looking at the young left leaning posters here. It seems that Canada is doomed if they ever become a large enough force.

"I saw them take the Jew and I did nothing for I am not a jew...."

Posted by: Right Mind at June 3, 2006 8:22 PM

Matt, Look at this site and the brochure "Stand on Guard". There is already an ammonium nitrate registry. Maybe that's how we found them. 120 25-kg bags, please - a lot of nitrogen unless you're a corn or grain farmer. Of which there are few in Mississauga!


Posted by: Andy at June 3, 2006 8:29 PM

Someone asked about this, and I'm not sure if it's been answered yet (holy crap, this thread is long), but the 1993 WTC bombing involved a 600kg bomb (too lazy to do the conversion as I'm not quite sure whether we're talking about metric or British tons here).

Posted by: Eugene at June 3, 2006 8:38 PM

Thanks Andy, but all I see is a voluntary program. I'm looking for a $2 billion dollar ammonium nitrate registry!

Posted by: Mississauga Matt at June 3, 2006 8:46 PM

"Was it to deep for you jim?

Seems like a simple question.

What do we know about this incident? a bunch of kids were talking on the internet 2 were older then 30, the rest were collage age and younger. Who odered the ammonium nitrate, where was it sent to?
We do know that the US has had 2 guys in custody for the past year, that they may or may not have tortured.
Are these kids in a muslim anti war group?

If you haven't learnt by now to double check everything the US says then there might not be any hope for you."

Jeez, neutralsam! There goes that Nobel Prize for Literature you've been working on.

"older then 30"?



Very credible.

Posted by: Brian M. at June 3, 2006 8:52 PM

You mean to tell me that these very religious terrorists did not have a copy of the koran with them. We the cdn taxpayer must supply them for them. Let the muslim communitee give them to them. We cant have bibles so why should they have korans. And, their meals should be bacon for breakfast, pork chops for dinner and ham sandwiches for supper and snacks. No coddling them. They wanted to blow up ontario. Let them know we are not the usa, and no special diets or prayer mats. Also, all windows should be blacked out, they should be blindfolded and spun around about 12 times. Take off the blindfolds and tell them east has disappeared. Let the muslim terrorist lawyers sue, for abuse, discrimination etc. There tactics will not, or should not, work anymore. Liberals are no longer in power and do not need their votes. Hopefully this will spur the justice minister to abolish the YOA. Reading these posts and those at the G&M, I think we have more to fear from cdn defenders of those arrested than the terrorists. Imagine, an Iman supporting illegal gun trade, in Canada, in our cities.

Posted by: maryT at June 3, 2006 8:54 PM

Agitfact, if you understood the enemy in question, you wouldn't imagine them laughing in response. Believe me. These folks don't have a sense of humor when it comes to their "religion", which, if you knew the facts thereof, rather than what you're told by the left and even by Dubya, you'd realize requires all able-bodied Muslims to fight jihad against all who are different... just because they're different. Don't you agree that killing people just because they're different is reprehensible and morally and ethically wrong?

Red Ant: I think it's a short form of "oh". Besides, whoever asks what the "O" in "O Canada" means? Furthermore, I've seen the jihadists using the letter "O" in their hate-filled songs as taught by Hamas to "Palestinian" schoolchildren for plays and whatnot, like "O Zionist..." and so on.

For example:

"Shake the earth, raise the stones. You will not be saved, Oh Zionist, from the volcano of my country’s stones, You will not be saved, Oh Zionist, from the volcano of my country’s stones, You are the target of my eyes, I will even willingly fall as a Shahid [Martyr for Allah]. You are the target of my eyes, I will even willingly fall as a Shahid. Allah Akbar, Oh the young ones".

That's a translation, but I've seen Muslims' English translations before using "O" instead of "Oh".

That isn't an isolated incident.

From "Palestinian Education: Readin', Writin, & Dyin'"

Posted by: Canadian Sentinel at June 3, 2006 9:00 PM


That was me I believe. 3000 kg is 3 metric tons

that would make it 5 x the size of WTC bomb

Enough to bring down a bank tower or any of the smaller buildings in along front street. A couple actually

Posted by: Stephen at June 3, 2006 9:07 PM


I believe that the 'O', when referring to Jihadists, is supposed to have a little dot in the middle - representing a sphincter.

Posted by: JR at June 3, 2006 9:08 PM

Ammonium nitrate registry? Very funny. LOL. The jihadists won't register their ammonium nitrate. It'd be another boondoggle to punish farmers who like to fertilize their crops while doing nothing to stop jihad. Much like the long gun registry...

Next someone'll propose a bomb belt registry, but that'd only affect law-abiding folks who want to commit suicide without hurting other folks. Jihadists won't register their bomb belts.

Liberals often expect even evil people to follow rules and laws. Talk about plain, simple stupidity.

Posted by: Canadian Sentinel at June 3, 2006 9:12 PM

JR, you just reminded me of Yasser Arafat. Hairy sphincter, he.

Posted by: Canadian Sentinel at June 3, 2006 9:16 PM

Matt & Sentinel:

You can bet the ag retailers are serious about registering ammonium nitrate buyers, especially people they don't know. The alternative, both here and the US, is having the government up their asses.


Posted by: Andy at June 3, 2006 9:30 PM

Liberals often expect even evil people to follow rules and laws. Talk about plain, simple stupidity."
Posted by: Canadian Sentinel at June 3, 2006 09:12 PM

CS,you are partly right,however we do not see them even bother to hold their own leaders to the same standards,do we?Selective indignation is what I call it.

Anyways,what disgusts me is the shameless lefties who not only have the audacity to show up here and defend terrorists,they go about it by attacking honest,law-abiding and patriotic fellow Canadians.They should all be deeply ashamed of themselves.F*ck the lot of you!

Posted by: Canadian Observer at June 3, 2006 9:34 PM

stay the course fella. just cause it hasn't worked for 5 years doesnt mean it won't not work forever. now thats the Right philosophy?
Keep working it wrong till you get it Right! ha
Did I say dumb? no

keep working it wrong til you get it Right.

sounds like it would make a good Toby Keith song.

keep working it wrong till you get it Right
no matter how many have to die each nite
cause I'm not there I'm over here
Just a chickhawk with a snarly sneer

There thats the kind of poem Sentinel loves
keep working it wrong
just cause its sooo John Waynie green beretie
only a wimp learns from his mistakes
besides they're in their last throes
some last throe
feels more like a resurrection
nevermind, keep working it wrong

My first idea is always my last idea---G.Bush

Posted by: steve d. at June 3, 2006 9:37 PM

I have warned you people once. If you insist on using this comments thread as a chat board, I will close it.

If you don't know who you are, then go back and count your comments on this thread. If they number more than 3, I'm probably talking to you.

Posted by: Kate at June 3, 2006 9:42 PM

Justice Dawson appointed by Chretien.

Harkat must remain in jail. .....

Canada appeals release of al Qaeda suspect
01 Jun 2006 17:18:09 GMT

OTTAWA, June 1 (Reuters) - The Canadian government has appealed a judge's decision to release on bail an Algerian man she had found to have lied about being part of Osama bin Laden's al Qaeda network, a spokeswoman said on Thursday.

On May 23 Federal Court Justice Eleanor Dawson ordered the release under tight conditions of the suspect, Mohamed Harkat, one of several Muslims detained since the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks on the United States.

"We have reasonable grounds to believe that Mr. Harkat poses a risk to national security," said Melisa Leclerc, a spokeswoman for Public Safety Minister Stockwell Day in explaining why the government appealed Dawson's decision.

In the government's notice of appeal, filed on Tuesday, it referred to the fact that Dawson herself had found that, "in his testimony before the court, the respondent (Harkat) had been untruthful on a number of significant points."

Dawson had said she remained convinced that Harkat had lied under oath about his alleged association with Bin Laden lieutenant Abu Zubaydah and having assisted Islamic extremists who came to Canada. But she said her conditions would establish close enough supervision to prevent danger to Canada.

Harkat has been held in prison without charge since 2002 on a national security certificate on grounds that he was a threat to national security. Canada would like to deport him but Harkat says if he is sent to Algeria he will likely face torture or death.

As of Thursday afternoon, the Web site lobbying for Harkat's release said he was still in prison while his wife Sophie Harkat tried to raise the funds for his bail.

A government motion to stay Dawson's decision, or put it on hold, is to be heard in Ottawa on June 9. via reuters alertnet

Posted by: maz2 at June 3, 2006 9:46 PM

Even considering how completly jaded I am when it comes to the CBC's radical leftist slant...
I was SHOCKED at how CBC radio dealt with the story.

Today's top CBC radio agendas:
1. Everyone must feel sorry for all of the Muslims about to experience a "backlash of emotion".
2. The U.S is ultimatly responsible for the rise of terrorism.
3. American Marines have still killed people in Haditha, even though it has been reported 3 days in a row
4. The terrorism charges could "all evaporate".
5. "Islam is a religion of peace".

Posted by: Knight of Good Mr. Iron Man at June 3, 2006 9:57 PM

I don't remember the CBC interviewing any Muslim outraged over this. Not one. Who can blame the CBC for that though?

The Islamic community is responsible for the typically absent reaction to Islamic terrorism...

Posted by: Knight of Good Mr. Iron Man at June 3, 2006 10:15 PM

There was an interesting interview with the female author of Your Jihad, Not My Jihad (hope that's the correct title) on CBC. She stated that the many peace-loving Muslims who have been living in Canada happily for years must get out of their comfortable lives and start speaking up for their country, Canada. She also said that Canadians must wake up to the fact that there are extreme fanatical muslims preaching to the youth and twisting their minds in order to carry out jihad.

The CBC journalist looked if this was the first time she heard it, or that this possibly couldn't happen in Canada.

I remember years ago when Canada was seen as the laughing stock of immigrants who came here under false pretenses. I wonder if the protestors who shut down Monte Solberg's talk the other day would have something to say about today's arrests.

A few days ago, I wrote a comment to the Globe and Mail about the CSIS announcement, and it wasn't posted.....All I basically wrote was that if Jack Layton or the Liberals were in charge, they'd have pamphlets printed up that said...."Have you hugged your neighborhood terrorist today?"

CSIS is right.....if anything is going on that makes a person suspicious, report it. CSIS can sort out what's valid and what isn't.

Posted by: anonymous at June 3, 2006 10:19 PM

The citizens of the world can no longer afford the luxury of catering to the ’sensibilities’ of religious folk - including Muslims.

There is only one way to attenuate the threat posed by militant Islam and that is to introduce doubt into the hearts and minds of ordinary Muslim believers.

Instead of side-stepping in fear of giving ‘offense’, strike at the very heart and soul of the problem.

And what is that? Well...dare I speak the name...yes...the Qur’an!

This fountainhead of fervour and discord, supposedly an exact word-for-word copy of tablets existing eternally in heaven:

makes demonstrably false claims

is based on identifiable ‘fables’

is replete with historical errors and anachronisms

is not worthy of faith, let alone lives.

To argue endlessly about what is meant by this word, or that word, or this idea, or that idea, is worse than pointless when the whole book can be, indeed has been, swept away by an even mildly rigorous scholarly examination.

Question the provenance and content of the Qur’an, publish fearlessly, and confidence in the Qur’an as the word of Allah will be severely shaken, just where it should be - in the hearts and minds of ordinary Muslims.

Posted by: Vynette Holliday at June 3, 2006 10:22 PM

So...let's unpack this information. We have a group of young men with Arab-sounding names who have been discovered in some kind of plot, involving ammonium nitrate. They appear to be the Canadian sons of Muslim immigrants to Canada, but all are Canadian citizens with no apparent connection to any overseas group. They are described, not as Al-Queda, but as "inspired by" Al-Queda. What exactly does that mean? What could it mean? I know many of you who post here will not bother to attempt an answer to those questions, because you prefer to have your conservobot reactionary media do your thinking for you, but if you've got the guts, come along with me...

1. For those who are beholden to military hardware manufacturers and the security industry, today was a good day. Our PM wants a bunch of new C-130s, which are expensive. It cannot be denied that it is easier to expand government expenditures on the military-security sector when the public is fearful over terrorism. As I have said many times, one needs only to look south for examples of that. Anyone who isn't just a bit suspicious after the disaster of the Iraq war and the revelations therefrom just isn't thinking.

2. What do we know about young men in their twenties? A lot of them are filled with bravado and are itching to prove their man-hood through violent action. They share this characteristic with the arrested adolescents who say things like "Show the islamofascists we mean business." or "we must crush this Islamic terrorists decisively!!" or "When did Canadians become so weak kneed?" yadda, yadda. Young men in their twenties often bluster in that way. Then they grow up.

3. Why wouldn't these native born Canadian citizens feel loyalty to Canada and its laws? Why have they turned against the mainstream of Canadian society and toward radical Islam? There are no racism here, no double standards--are there? "Korans demanded; cell phones next? Send in bacon pizza and pork rinds, cold water...." (If these people were European, would the media make any mention if they requested Bibles?)

4. CSIS is our source of information here. The problem with that is that under Canadian law, CSIS will never have to take responsibility if this case turns out to be bogus, because CSIS can unilaterally declare its proceedures as "secret" for "national security" reasons, without any kind of review. This kind of power is way beyond even the burgeoning police state in the US. Now if these guys are what CSIS claims they are, I say great. Lock 'em up. (And confiscate the prisoner's Korans as long as you take the Bibles away too.) However, if they are falsely accused, how will we ever know? How will we know if we're not being taking for a ride on the W train? You racists don't care --as long as you can lump "lefties" "multiculturists" and "islamofascists" together in your fevered, hate-stoked imaginations.

The problem for you now is: how are you going to make a case that Canada is so ineffectual against terrorism if this case DOES turn out to be real? That means that no "terrist" hurt anybody, and it was all foiled within existing laws. The state didn't have to violate its own laws, and it required no military action. If this case pans out, it will be an eloquent argument against the lunacy of the Bush administration, and the whole "we have to get tough" mentality.

Posted by: R at June 3, 2006 10:35 PM

Referring to efforts from The Usual Suspects in the MSM to softball this, I mention the Reuters article "Canada arrests terror suspects; explosives found" at

The good Comrades at Reuters managed to write that whole article on this extremely important criminal investigation and arrests without ONCE using any of the words: Muslim, Islam, Muslims, Islamists, Islamofascists, Al Qaeda.

Nor did they list ANY of the names of the suspects arrested, all of whom were identified by Canadian law enforcement. The problem with Reuters mentioning the names is that they are: Muhammed, Abdul, Syed, Ahmed, Saad, Khalid, etc. (Not exactly, um, ethnically European Judeo-Christian, so to speak...)

Posted by: Dave at June 3, 2006 10:37 PM


I clicked on your "It's already begun" link, and of course it took me directly to the Babble discussion thread about the terrorist bust. I was so incensed by the discussion of root causes (It's our fault because we're in Afghanistan), that I decided to join the babblers, and join the discussion. Big mistake! Any illusions on my part that they wanted to engage in a rational debate were quickly dispelled. Anyway, I'm the babbler with the ID "Ripstop", about halfway down the thread. Folks, go look and see how fast the name calling starts. I tried logging on to Babble 1/2 hour ago and got the following message:

"Sorry, either your membership has not yet been approved or the board administrators have removed your ability to post to this board. We cannot allow you to modify your profile at this time as a result."

Posted by: Ken at June 3, 2006 10:40 PM

They threw me off again for asking if all their concerns about erosion of freedom and free speech in Canada were similar to their banning anyone who didn't agree with their views.

Posted by: Bart at June 3, 2006 11:08 PM

Any word on if the CBC headquarters in Toronto was a possible target. If they weren't, that could explain their velvet glove treatment of the story. What did it cost us taxpayers for the CBC to bribe the muslims. This story is being reported on around the world, in not very positive thoughts on Canada. Many reports have said, Perhaps with the new government-or words to that effect. Toronto, forget tourism for this summer, it is done like Volpe. Waiting to hear if the malls were filled today.

Posted by: maryT at June 3, 2006 11:10 PM

I just watched CNN's news coverage at 11:00 p.m., where they did a segment on National Security, which dealt with what's happening up here. No editorial opinion, no attempt to wrap Muslims in cotton batten, no coverage of the police spokesman's comment to the effect that no, one ethnic group was targeted (even though it's crystal clear, from a look at each of the names, that the men arrested are actually from one particular ethnic group).

O Canada.

Posted by: new kid on the block at June 3, 2006 11:30 PM

Nice. Check out what else the author has posted.

Posted by: Shaken at June 3, 2006 11:30 PM

MaryT, The CBC wasn't the target. The primary target was across the street on the 10th floor. This is the Toronto area HQ of CSIS. BY blowing up CSIS with even 1 ton of the three, most the CBC building would have been wiped out.

Ironic, isn't it?

Posted by: capt joe at June 3, 2006 11:46 PM


You truly are the worst type of coward and an unspeakable insult to the millions that laid down there lives to build and defend this continent and its democratic society.

Your MO is classic. You espouse disengagement and surrender as a means of appeasement, falsely believing that ‘we will be left alone if we leave them alone’. Well history (WWI & WWII) clearly shows that when dealing with a society that is fascist in nature (Germany & Japan) there is simply no appeasement only suffering. Think of how many millions could have been saved if North America had of been more proactive and taken the fight to the Germans or Japanese. It is the only way; all others will lead to history repeating itself.

I really think moving out of your parent’s basement would be good for you.

Posted by: missing link at June 4, 2006 12:36 AM

I hope this isn't representative of our country. I was concerned that the alleged attacks.....

Thinking this over I'm more concerned I'll be attacked for my opinions.

I really don't want to express my opinion anymore. I have a family. You understand?

Sorry I won't post anymore. Good luck.

Not my real name.


Posted by: Bob at June 4, 2006 12:46 AM

Maybe Howard Moscoe's (NDP civic politician) statement that, "terrorists couldn't find Toronto on a map" will be compared with Bush's "bring it on" comment by leftists? Was it provocative or just stupid? Either way, just another example of the NDP just congenitally unable to seriously consider National Security a matter of any importance. They've just made themselves unelectable for another generation.

Posted by: cynical joe at June 4, 2006 1:24 AM

In the US the Murdoch bldg-head offices of the FBI, was hit, also a daycare center. In Canada, the head office of CSIS. Is there a daycare in the CSIS bldg, or can parents be thankful that the liberals never kept their promise. Must be a reason home grown terrorists, white or brown, want to destroy those agencies. I can't believe how many posters support the terrorists, when most liberal values are totally against Islamic values.

Posted by: maryT at June 4, 2006 2:14 AM

Re Jason's remarks : "And Joe Canuck, this surveillance started when the Liberals were in power - grow up already. Martin may be a tool, but he and Harper *both* interested in NOT seeing Canadians blown up in the street."

Perhaps you could try growing up yourself Jason.
A lot of other things started when the Liberals were still in power, and boy are we paying for it now! The Liberals were famous for sweeping uncomfortable (for them) findings under the carpet. What makes you think they would break form simply because it was an RCMP or CSIS investigation?

Look at what 13 years of Liberal rule has created in our immigration/refugee system: thousands of undesireable immigrants and refugees, many with serious criminal records, ordered deported, but all still walking the streets in Canada. This problem has been known about for years, but the Libs have always had a ready supply of excuses, denials, and smoke 'n mirrors to justify their inability to correct the situation.

And you still think that the latest terrorist arrests would have gone ahead under the Liberals? Man, you ARE dreaming.

Posted by: Joe Canuck at June 4, 2006 4:34 AM

R- It doesn't require any imagination to see "lefties" "multiculturists" and "islamofascists can be shown to be involved in a symbiotic relationship.
Reminds me of looking at stagnant water through a microscope.

The twenty year olds are certainly full of bluster around here, and certainly looking to blow a load.

The thing is they are more interested in chasing girls on the weekends, having fun and not getting caught.
They find a girl that catches their fancy and grow up, much like their fathers did.

Fertilizer is something they spread on fields,also most of them I'm sure have a gun close at hand at home yet no mass destruction?

Could it be they consider themselves to be Canadian, rather than Dutch,Irish,German, etc?

Just remember R mainstream Canada just like the values Liberals worship usually stop at the city limits, or the outer edge of the terrorists bullseye?

Posted by: Mugs at June 4, 2006 7:43 AM

Does anyone realize that 3 tonnes of 34-0-0 or ammonium nitrate is 132 bags. This is way more than lawn fertilizer. This product has been removed from production since 9-11 due to the fact that it can be used as an explosive. Anyone that has this product is either growing winter wheat or planning a terrorist attack. There is no reason to have it. Get your head out of the sand people, these guys mean business.

Posted by: Farmer Steve at June 4, 2006 8:54 AM

This quote from The Ottawa Citizen, Sun. June 4, 2006:

"Aly Hindy, imam at the Salaheddin Islamic Centre in Scarborough, said the charges would be proved false.

'I think it will fall apart. I'm just worried for the community. This is an attack on the Muslim community. Canada has the best Muslim community, we are very safe and peaceful,' he said at the centre.

"'We are abusing our boys for the sake of pleasing (U.S. President) George Bush,' Mr. Hindy said outside the courtroom.

"'The CSIS and RCMP are feeling threatened -- not of terrorism but of losing their jobs. They need to create an atmosphere of fear in the country to keep their jobs.'

"'They talk of homegrown terrorism. This is homegrown baloney.'"

The only "baloney" here belongs to Imam Aly Hindy. These comments of his are outrageous:

"I'm just worried for our community": absolutely no concern for the safety of non-Muslim Canadians;

"an attack on Muslims": EXCUSE ME? No one has threatened Muslims with three tons of ammonium nitrate. I guess Iman Hindy thinks that the deployemnt of an creates "safety and peace";

"we're abusing our boys for the sake of George Bush": He's learned his Liberal/Dipper Canadian values (sic) well: Use the language of victimhood and blame all things on George W. These boys aren't being abused. They CHOSE to make threats and follow through on them with the purchase and delivery of three tons of ammonium nitrate. Deal with that reality Imam Aly Hindy.

"The CSIS and RCMP are feeling threatened... They need to create an atmosphere of fear in the country to keep their jobs."

Absolute hogwash. The people who are feeling threatened are the Canadian people, now that this plot has been uncovered; and yes, it is "homegrown" with Imam Aly Hindy probably responsible in some small part for his encouragement of such activities on the part of 'his' boys. Canadians are GRATEFUL to the members of the RCMP and CSIS, and far from their creating an atmosphere of fear, they have instead given us reason to be proud of them and to feel that they ARE doing their job. Imam Hindy has everything backwards.

"the charges would be proved false. 'I think it will fall apart.'" My hope is that this is just hot air and not a threat.

Had Imam Aly Hindy expressed some concern about the security and safety of all Canadians, not just his community; had he allowed for the possibility that "his boys" had overstepped the bounds of citizenship by their actions and by the intent of their actions, to deploy explosive devices against Canadians because of some alleged hardship Muslims have felt in our country; had he expressed a sincere desire to get to the bottom of this plot and to see justice done, I would be feeling far more confident of his leadership in the Muslim community.

As it is, having made these absolutely ludicrous and outrageous statements about the complete innocence of "his boys," and faulting George W. Bush, CSIS, and the RCMP for all the trouble "his boys" are in now (and not dealing with the fact that two of them are convicted gun runners), he has proven himself to be untrustworthy and a bigoted blowhard.

Posted by: new kid on the block at June 4, 2006 9:44 AM

The nuclear Pickering Hydro station was mentioned as a potential target during Rondi Adamson's segment on Fox News last evening.
Interesting that Canadian media is not mentioning that one.
Did FOX news just make that up or are Canadian MSM gate-keeping that info?
Just wondering.

Posted by: Joe Molnar at June 4, 2006 9:48 AM

From the postings made by Kate and those of most of the contributers to this site, I think it is fair to say that this site is generally (small c) conservative in nature. Many if not most of the threads are aimed at laying bare the misconceptions and outright lies perpetrated by the "left"...and we see "lefties" responding to these threads.

Don't be surprised, therefore, if other threads that are aimed at the MSM, "native canadians" and muslims are responded to by members of the MSM, "native canadians" and muslims...either overtly or (as it would seem in reading some of the comments) discreetly through the use of non-specific nom-de-blogs and non-specific (though "pro-faction") language used therein.

We could very well be listening and responding to propaganda being disseminated by these "groups" within these threads. Probably best to treat them with caution and consider some of the most virulent as trolls...treating them according to Kate's rules.

Keep the faith, stick to your principles, don't be swayed by propaganda, strive to separate the wheat from the chaff...but don't give in to the lies or the fear-mongering by the idiots and barbarians.

Posted by: Hassle at June 4, 2006 9:52 AM

Imam Aly Hindy, aka Baloney Imam. Well, baloney is ground meat....

Imam Aly Hindy is a dangerous man. Beware of him and his message.

There are many Aly Hindys in Canada with his message in their brains.

We were warned.

The Enemy Within ......

October 26, 2005
The Enemy Within

Out to finish what Bin Laden started...

A NEW York jury today ruled that the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey was negligent and can be sued for damages from the 1993 truck bombing at the World Trade Centre, setting the stage for a potential raft of lawsuits.

Islamist militants exploded the truck bomb in an underground parking garage of the twin towers on February 26, 1993, killing six people and wounding more than 1000.

The jury ruling in the state-court case means relatives of the six people who were killed and the hundreds of other victims and businesses affected by the blast may proceed with damage suites against the Port Authority for damages.

Posted by Kate at October 26, 2005 07:31 PM

'Homegrown baloney', says Muslim community

Aly Hindy, imam at the Salaheddin Islamic Centre in Scarborough, said the charges would be proved false."I think it will fall apart. I'm just worried for the community. This is an attack on the Muslim community ..

Posted by: maz2 at June 4, 2006 9:53 AM

Check out Margolis' view that the poor misunderstood little tinkers were set up by the Canadian government!
Words fail.

"It's possible that among the 12 adults and five minors charged, Canadian security organizations have rounded up some loud-mouthed teenagers who have been encouraged to sedition by government "agents provocateurs.""

Posted by: Tinfoil Hat at June 4, 2006 10:10 AM

The suspects
From friendly neighbours to a politicized student, these GTA men are accused of belonging to a terror cell



"I'm a Muslim. Not a terrorist," asserted James' father yesterday.

The dad, who declined to give his name, said he was floored Friday when about eight officers armed with rifles and stun guns broke down his door at about 7:30 p.m.

Police hauled him and his son, James, outside where they were draped over police cars and cuffed in front of stunned neighbours.

The door to his home bears the scars of the assault and black dirt tracks are on his light carpet inside the living room. "I was shocked ... he's not involved in terrorist activities. He has a big heart," the soft-spoken father said.

"I am not a terrorist. I have no ammunition or explosives. I don't have anything like that."

Police searched the home and escorted the family's 83-year-old grandmother -- one officer on each side -- angering Jahmaal, according to one witness. "He started yelling at police, 'Leave her alone,'" said the witness, who also declined to give his name.

The family of four -- mother, father, son and grandmother -- moved into the neighbourhood last November from the Danforth and kept to themselves.

"It certainly wakes you up," the witness said. "Everybody was in shock at what was going on."


Posted by: maz2 at June 4, 2006 10:25 AM

..."home grown terrorists".

I remember hearing somewhere something about reaping what you sow...

Interesting, Mississauga voted Liberal (Omar Alghabra), but that's another direction.

Posted by: tomax7 at June 4, 2006 10:26 AM

Right now on tv:

CBC Newsworld has a panel of their own reporters answering audience questions re terror connections in the world.

Most here will want to be aware of the answers and comparisons.

Posted by: Buffalo Bean at June 4, 2006 10:33 AM

Hassle: "... don't be swayed by propaganda, strive to separate the wheat from the chaff...but don't give in to the lies or the fear-mongering by the idiots and barbarians."

Wouldn't it be nice?

Posted by: agitfact at June 4, 2006 10:51 AM

..."funding research on "home grown" effects of imported extremism"...

...."Zero Dollars" Spent On Proactive "Smart Integration" Programs Says CIC
Spending Only On Law And Order Is Not Enough”...

“Smart integration”? What about starting with a ban on all prayer rooms in corporations & publicly funded institutions.

Posted by: JM at June 4, 2006 10:52 AM

...any bets most of these 'kids' will get off with a hand slap for Liberal santioned lawyers and judges?

You know, "first time offender" type thing.

Dunno which of the following would make me more sick:

1. Waking up to news that the CN Tower and couple of tall bank building in downtown TO were bombed and are in a crumpled pile of steel and contrete with thousands dead...

2. Most, if not all, of the unrepentant confessed terrorists who plotted this are chanting "Allah is Great" in the courtrooms get off on either a technicality, "community service", "house arrests", or 18 month sentence reduced to 6 months because well they are "nice boys" and will be supervised by the local inman.

3. I wake up in 3 months from now (they were released early for good behaviour) to hear on the news the CN Tower and some tall bank buildings in downtown TO were bombed and are a crumpled pile of steel and contrete with thousands dead...

4. Hear Smiling Jack or the Ontario CUPE saying "TOLD YOU SO - na na a boo boo".

5. Think/shudder how this would have happened under a Liberal government.

6. Had the head RCMP/CSIS/OPP management try to block the raids due to "wanting to avoid racial profiling" angle.

7. All the above...

Posted by: tomax7 at June 4, 2006 10:58 AM

Go to the Harkat site.

A black hand appears. The black hand (search) is a symbol of Death.

Read of a man's awakening to the threat posed by illegal aliens; the story is a parable/metaphor of the threat of "altruistic" socialism.

Blinded by the peeper/pepper spray of political correctness,multiculturalism, human rights tribunals, feminism, the homosexual agenda, and more:

Mohamed Harkat is to beleased as ordered by Justice Eleanor Dawson, who was appointed by ex-Liberal PM Jean Chretien.

Conservative Justice Minister Toews has ordered an appeal. Harkat must remain in jail.
Terror suspect Harkat released on bail. From the Canadian press. Mr. Harkat, an Ottawa man accused of terrorist ties, was granted bail Tuesday - albeit with

...Border crossers appear guilty of blinding dog with pepper ("it was sheer meanness — nasty." )
ArizonaDailyStar ^ | 06.04.2006 | Kimberly Matas

Posted on 06/04/2006 7:27:53 AM PDT by IrishMike

Sandy Schlesinger thought he had an unspoken accord with the illegal entrants who passed through his property on a nearly daily basis. He filled their water jugs and gave them tortillas before sending them on their way and calling the Border Patrol. A couple of weeks ago, though, the rules changed. Schlesinger heard his dog, a German wire-haired pointer and black Labrador mix named Gobbler, barking from his outdoor kennel early in the morning. He looked out the window and saw a border crosser with his arm outstretched, standing a few feet from his kenneled dog. Schlesinger thought the man was perhaps working up the nerve to move close enough to pet the dog. When Schlesinger went outside, he saw a group of eight people and gave them water before they left. Schlesinger didn't realize until three days later that his dog was blind, the result he says of the border crosser shooting pepper spray into Gobbler's eyes. When Gobbler's veterinarian said Schlesinger's dog had been pepper-sprayed and blinded because it was not treated immediately, the owner realized what had happened. "Animals act differently," Schles-inger said. "You and I would run screaming for water, but he didn't."

Here is an appeal to the elites of Canada and the worldwide jihad.


To all Mohamed Harkat supporters,

You may have heard the news: Justice Dawson's decision to release Moe on bail has been appealed by government lawyers. Read details HERE.

Don't get discouraged. Keep fighting. With the dedication of our excellent legal team and the support of all of you great people across Canada and around the globe WE WILL make it happen. We WILL get Moe released on bail !!

We still need to raise bail money, however. Our lawyer in Ottawa, Matthew Webber, needs to have money in his office next week - June 5 - to show the court WE ARE READY to welcome Moe home. If you haven't sent your cheque in yet please do so ASAP.

CUPE supports Islamist terrorism... in Canada....worldwide.

The letter is signed by the notorious Katherine Nastovski who issued/signed the press release from CUPE supporting the "Boycott Israel" crusade.

Letter of Concern from CUPE (Surprise, surprise)...

Honourable Ministers,

I am writing on behalf of the International Solidarity Committee of the Canadian Union of Public Employees-Ontario Division, to express our deep concern over the imprisonment of Mohamed Harkat, one of four men being held under a security certificate ...

Katherine Nastovski
Co-chair, International Solidarity Committee
CUPE Ontario

Posted by: maz2 at June 4, 2006 11:16 AM

Moslem intellectual and community leader continues to dazzle us with his grasp of logic and rhetorical skills:

Aly Hindy, an imam at a Toronto mosque………..

“the problem is these days…..
-when a Muslim commits fraud, it becomes terrorism.
-When he commits stealing it becomes terrorism,"

The problem these days is that Hindy is a community leader in Canada or anywhere else on this planet.

Oh my! CBC has already judged them. (http:...bomb-people.html)

Posted by: Cal at June 4, 2006 11:27 AM

What makes me sick are the opportunistic radical lefties who see this frightening story as nothing more than YET another chance to attack innocent,patriotic conservatives,even if it means defending terrorist scum to achieve these ends.
It is shameful behavior and totally devoid of empathy for any fellow Canadians(unless they are alleged terrorists,of course).

Out in the real world,I have little faith in the ability of our justice system to prove that ALL these young muslim Canadians are a part of this scheme,let alone distribute appropriate sentences to those found guilty.But then,these things take years,maybe our justice system won't be so neutered by the liberal's soft on crime agenda by then.

Posted by: Canadian Observer at June 4, 2006 11:46 AM

"posted by maz2 at June 4, 2006 11:16 AM"

Same site includes more info & pictures on confrontation between Monte Solberg & protestors.

Posted by: JM at June 4, 2006 12:05 PM

A reminder to the rabid right:
These so-called terrorists cannot be locked up for long. Thus far, their only crime is having brown skin, and purchasing plant food. Let's assume for a moment that our Bushian anti-terror laws are used, what is the longest possible sentance you think these people will get? Two, three years? How about the young offenders? Five, six months? Face it, this is not Amerika, and we don't use reactionary, draconian punishments to satisfy the public's lust for blood.

We have got to address the underlying factors that caused this, or we are doomed to see history repeat itself. Why is it that no one is concerned about the systemic racism that allowed these individuals to feel so withdrawn from Canadian society? Why is it that we shamelessly support the United Statess, as it commits war crimes and atrocities across the Muslim world? Why do we on one hand claim to support democracy, yet on the other refuse to respect the outcome of the recent palestinian elections?

The answers to these questions are what will truly put an end to this conflict. The trouble is, they aren't even being asked.

Posted by: Kevin_Laddle at June 4, 2006 12:06 PM

The struggle against Islamofascism will be long, tedious, and deadly. It will take place on several fronts, domestic and foreign. There are no quick fixes and I'm not aware of anyone ever saying that there would be. I carried a rifle as a member of Canada's Armed Forces when I was seventeen. I am prepared to serve again, and have offered my services should the CF need anyone in my specialty overseas. I am prepared to take up arms in the defence of my freedoms until the day I die. I have never taken those freedoms for granted and have never expected that they would be perpetually free from threat. Those who would rob me of my freedoms and way of life (Islamofascists being only one group among many) are in it for the long haul. Well, so am I. If that means perpetual warfare between us, then so be it. Those who want a one-shot, quick fix, cure-all, perpetual solution that will allow them to put their feet up with no chance of threats returning are naive, in complete denial, ignorant of history or all three. We will lose some battles. That is no reason to surrender. We will win others. That is no reason to quit. The defence of our freedoms will be endless, tedious, nerve-racking, and costly. Suck it up. Welcome to planet earth.

Posted by: DrD at June 4, 2006 12:15 PM

Doesn't this iman realize that many of his people work for the cbc and if csis had gone down, so would the cbc bldg been damaged with many dead. Why doesn't he or the cbc mention the damage to our people by his people. I think there will be a backlash against muslims. Until and unless these imans and their followers start demonstrating against,instead of defending, these terrorists we will be suspicious of all of them. I will no longer shop where they work, or ride in their cabs. That means I will drive my own car and contribute to global warming. Why do they get prayer rooms and we cannot have chapels in work places. Multiculturism has got to be banned, starting with no more fed funds to these groups. Sure hope no muslims go to whyte ave during or after the games. I think many muslim men will be shaving and taking off their head coverings and the women will start dressing western, so they can blend in. TO residents better start worrying about their neighbors and being bombed, instead of the dangers of smoking and certain dogs. That might be a defense in court, But you honor my clients don't engage in dangerous activity like smoking. Again, where is Dalton. Why is the msm trying to make this nothing but a minor problem.

Posted by: maryT at June 4, 2006 12:16 PM

Just glanced Cal's link to the CBC's "Alleged terror group participants come from all walks of life" article.

..."all walks of life"? Only if your college classes and everyday job are the sole criteria.

Deliberately missing from the whole picture by journalistic choice or stupidity is that although these suspects have varied educations and occupations, they are all male, all Muslim and all have, by their present circumstances, demonstrated the mentality and activities of murderous terrorists.

They all requested Korans after their arrest. The extended families at the courthouse are in burqas.

It's moronic drivel to attempt to portray these suspects as like us. I suspect that's the CBC's agenda is that the suspects are just like us, a reflection of us, a reflection of the flawed society we created and enmeshed them in......yada, yada, yada.

Posted by: penny at June 4, 2006 12:25 PM

What is suppressed reality? Really? Get it? Su-press-ed reality.

Wretchard excoriates Luc Portelance from Canadian Security Intelligence Service (Bienvenue) (CSIS).

(Review post by: Posted by patrick at June 3, 2006 10:13 AM)

Wretchard here:

Forget About It

Question: what's the most important news story of the past week? Haditha, Haditha, Haditha, Haditha, Canada, Britain. Ooops. Haditha, Haditha. Haditha. That's not to say the possible misconduct of US military personnel is not news, but the characteristic of correctly functioning sensory organs is that objects appear in their due proportion. If mice seemed the size of elephants and elephants the size of mice a visit to the doctor would seem in order. The press is the public's sensory organ.

Three tons of explosive. Suicide poison gas vests. MANPADs maybe. Home grown. Move along now, nothing to see here. Haditha is a story, but no matter how much anyone wants to keep it on the front page the sad reality is the really bigger stories won't stay still. They keep trying to climb above the fold. A National Post account of the Canadian arrests illustrates exactly how this process of trying to keep them below the fold works. The Canadian authorities described the suspects as follows:

With the exception of two men, who are aged 43 and 30, the alleged terrorists are all in their teens and early 20s. They include men of Somali, Egyptian, Jamaican, and Trinidadian origin. All are residents of Canada and “for the most part” all are Canadian citizens, police said. Charged are: Fahim Ahmad, 21, Zakaria Amara, 20, Asad Ansari, 21, Shareef Abdelhaleen, 30, Qayyum Abdul Jamal, 43, Mohammed Dirie, 22, Yasim Abdi Mohamed, 24, Jahmaal James, 23, Amin Mohamed Durrani, 19, Steven Vikash Chand, 25, and Ahmad Mustafa Ghany, 21. A twelfth man was a youth when some of the alleged offences took place and can’t be named, along with the other five youths arrested.

“For various reasons, they appear to have become adherents to a violent ideology inspired by al-Qaida,” said Luc Portelance, the CSIS assistant director of operations. ...“It is important to know that this operation in no way reflects negatively on any specific community, or ethno-cultural group in Canada,” he added.

Really, what's a guy to do? Luc Portelance tried delivering a straight line and came off as comedian. The phrase "it is important to know that this operation in no way reflects negatively on any specific community, or ethno-cultural group in Canada" will one day vie with that classic, "any resemblance to persons living or dead is purely coincidental."

From a purely academic point of view future historians will find this period an interesting example of how manipulated perceptions struggled obstinately with suppressed reality for the center stage of the policy debate. Some of the questions that will be asked fifty years from now are: what was Scooter Libby really charged with? Is that all? How come millions of people could die in Darfur without anyone noticing? Why were people obsessed with the possible criminal behavior of a handful of Marines in Iraq and uninterested in why their wonderful universities and high schools could produce kids who would be interested in blowing up buildings, spreading poison gas, or maybe shooting down airliners with surface to air missiles. And the most interesting thing about this period is that for a brief time, the manufactured perceptions almost looked like winning. Until reality weighed in. ...

Posted by: maz2 at June 4, 2006 12:30 PM

I'm going to push this up a notch: All persons living in liberty - whether in America or Austrailia - owe Canada's security forces a few this weekend.

Moreover: Certainly every advance against civil liberties the past half-decade in the free world has arisen from terrorist outrages, and mostly these advances are defensible.

Posted by: Josef in America at June 4, 2006 12:31 PM

Agitfact: I was "exhorting" my conservative "brothers and sisters" to not over-react to the idiots and barbarians that may attempt to egg them on by their postings on this site, although the point is valid enough regardless of the source of the consternation.

However, I would like to say that, although I wouldn't accuse you of lying and I don't think you are an idiot or a barbarian, I consider your viewpoint to be opposed to mine and hence one of those (on the fringe, mind you) that I am cautioning about. Your posts have been generally congenial, but your viewpoint is perverted IMHO.

I recognize that your response was an attempt at a smug backhand to the regular contributers here.

Posted by: Hassle at June 4, 2006 12:37 PM

First re the picture of the Muslim women in black outside the courthouse: Women your hands are uncovered. This is counter to the teachings of Islam. Please cover your hands immediately.

Second. In the coming days, I have no doubt the Canadian Islamic Congress and the CBC will report that these people were just storing fertilizer to be used farming operations.

Posted by: peter at June 4, 2006 12:38 PM

Doesn't this iman realize that many of his people work for the cbc and if csis had gone down, so would the cbc bldg been damaged with many dead. Why doesn't he or the cbc mention the damage to our people by his people. I think there will be a backlash against muslims. Until and unless these imans and their followers start demonstrating against,instead of defending, these terrorists we will be suspicious of all of them. I will no longer shop where they work, or ride in their cabs. That means I will drive my own car and contribute to global warming. Why do they get prayer rooms and we cannot have chapels in work places. Multiculturism has got to be banned, starting with no more fed funds to these groups. Sure hope no muslims go to whyte ave during or after the games. I think many muslim men will be shaving and taking off their head coverings and the women will start dressing western, so they can blend in. TO residents better start worrying about their neighbors and being bombed, instead of the dangers of smoking and certain dogs. That might be a defense in court, But you honor my clients don't engage in dangerous activity like smoking. Again, where is Dalton. Why is the msm trying to make this nothing but a minor problem.

Posted by: maryT at June 4, 2006 12:39 PM

Kevin Laddle said:
" Thus far, their only crime is having brown skin, and purchasing plant food."

Kevin, people like you scare the hell out of me. You want to apologize for causing people to build bombs to kill innocent people. I've got news for you. Not everyone's a victim. People make choices and they have to live with those choices. Hey, I'm sure Adolf Hitler had a rough childhood. Maybe Stalin had a father who didn't love him enough. The biggest danger to our society is not the "rabid right" but people like you who believe nobody is responsible for their own actions.

Posted by: Paul from Vancouver at June 4, 2006 12:40 PM

Ambassador Wilson is on Wolf Blitzer as I type. Asking some good questions, too bad the cbc doesn't do the same. FBI states there was co-operation between them and canada. Peter King, member of congress blasts martins govt. Watch for the ID card and passport issue to heat up. Also watch for less tourism in TO, as this story is all over the talk shows.

Posted by: maryT at June 4, 2006 12:45 PM

DrD said:"The struggle against Islamofascism will be long, tedious, and deadly. It will take place on several fronts, domestic and foreign."

DrD has issued a Call To Arms.

Maz2 salutes/joins with DrD.

Sir Winston Churchill said to another generation:

Victory at all costs, victory in spite of all terror, victory however long and hard the road may be; for without victory, there is no survival.

Posted by: maz2 at June 4, 2006 1:06 PM

Re the women of the photo. How many of them will be arrested? Don't tell us that not one of them knew what was going down. They are co-conspirators if they had any inkling and did not report it.

Posted by: Dubyadubya at June 4, 2006 1:08 PM

If guilty, I would like them to be hung. The last thing I want is these clowns trying to convert others in prison.

Posted by: Mike at June 4, 2006 1:18 PM

A brief review of history from the peanut gallery.

Homo Sapiens takes concepts of god, nature and society and then writes them in stone.

Consequently god becomes religious fundamentalism, nature becomes eugenics, and society becomes lysenkoism ( the rejection of genetics).

The world becomes soaked in blood.

As I look out my window I see dynamic systems, water, sky, foliage. Fleeting pictures.

Then I wonder if stasis is oftentimes ego and death.

Posted by: johnlee at June 4, 2006 1:27 PM

The problem I have with explanations such as those coming from the Kevin Laddle types, is not that they are frightening, for ignorance has its threshold of pragmatic survival, but, their actual ignorance in itself.

People like Kevin reduce all causes, of all problems in the world, to one source. The USA. Such overwhelming reductionism, such a massive location of causality within ONE source is quite breathtaking in its simplicity. And stupidity.

You'll find this same unilinear reductionism to one cause in any number of primitive ideologies. Bad things are caused by Satan, the Devil, by the Evil Wind. Then, you move from these abstract singularities to specific singularities. Bad things are caused by the X-tribe (we are the good tribe); bad things are caused by the People Over the Hill (we live in the valley).
The modern version of this primitive mindset is to blame everything on the USA.

These people, reductionists, are ignorant of social structure, of economic structures, of history, of population demographics, of correlations between political mode and population size etc, etc. They know zilch. I've asked Kevin to answer some questions about these issues. Of course he can't.

So, they opt for the primitive reductionist tactic. Blame all problems on one source. The Devil. The Evil Winds. The USA.

Posted by: ET at June 4, 2006 1:40 PM

cbc weekends has a question: do you feel safe.
I responded that I am more afraid of those supporting the plotters and msm. We should
all e-mail them with our concerns.

Posted by: maryT at June 4, 2006 1:44 PM

I wonder how many plants three tons of ammonium nitrate can fertilize? I guess the instructions on the package would say.

But I'd guess it'd have to be SOME BIG garden.

Posted by: new kid on the block at June 4, 2006 1:51 PM

"cbc weekends has a question: do you feel safe"

I feel less safe now knowing that the CBC will be reporting 'their findings' back to the public.

Posted by: JM at June 4, 2006 1:59 PM

International Herald Tribune
17 charged in plot to bomb sites in Canada

...Tarek Fatah, the communications director of the Muslim Canadian Congress, a national group, said that Jamal, the oldest of the suspects, is a well-known and fiery figure in the Toronto area's South Asian community, and that he was the imam of the Ar-Rahman Quran Learning Center, a mosque in a rented industrial building in Mississauga...

Posted by: JM at June 4, 2006 2:28 PM

Hats off to maz2 for this gem from Winston Churchill: "Victory at all costs, victory in spite of all terror, victory however long and hard the road may be; for without victory, there is no survival."

maz 2 says, "DrD has issued a Call To Arms. Maz2 salutes/joins with DrD."

So does new kid on the block satlute and join DrD and maz2.

Without trying to be dramatic, simply stating a fact, this conflict is a fight-to-the-finish. If we in the West don't recognize this, we're doomed to Dhimmitude. I don't want my daughters or myself to have to wear a burqa or to skulk around indoors for the rest of our lives, that is, if we survive an Islamofascist attack first.

My views, BTW, have nothing to do with George W. Bush. They are based on values of service, sacrifice, honour, freedom, pride, protection of our children, faith, generosity, which were passed down from generation to generation to me and to my children. These are the values that my two grandfathers and my father fought for in WWI and WWII, and I'm darned if I'm going to stand silently by while they are now under attack within our own country by people who have greatly benefited from these values which undergird our society.

It's disgraceful that Imams like Aly Hindy are slinging mud in our faces and blaming us for the crimes and misdemeanors of members of his own community. I've noted, and hey, it's a free country, that most of the boys arrested live in far bigger and nicer houses than my family could afford. How does Aly Hindy translate their beautiful, upper-middle-class homes and lifestyles into abuse or bad treatment of Muslims in Canada?

Ironically, the very values that have made Canada, and all countries in the West, desireable to immigrants, including Muslim immigrants who have fled ME countries which do not espouse these values, are being dissed and trampled on by those who have been the fortunate recipients of the kind of societies they build.

It is extremely disappointing, scurrilous in fact, for Muslims in Canada to blame Canada and Canadians for choices their sons have made. Living in Canada has given Muslims opportunities in a free and democratic society that many of them would never have had in the closed and oppressive regimes from which they've come.

We need to speak truth into lies. If anyone suggests to us that Muslims in Canada have been mistreated or that it is our fault that their sons have decided to become violent and destructive, we need to remind them of what brought them to Canada in the first place. We need to remind them of the rule of law and the need for ALL CITIZENS to respect and live by the laws of our land. There are no exceptions, and being a member of an ethnic minority does not give one any special status before the law.

I hope that the justices in our judicial system remember this, as well.

Posted by: new kid on the block at June 4, 2006 2:31 PM

Well said New Kid! I'm with you. Did anyone catch the statement made by Jack on Canoe News:

"The idea that people would be planning a bombing in our country is simply shocking. And I'm simply thrilled that it looks at though there was a successful co-ordinated effort by all of our security personnel to put a stop to it before it could happen." - Federal NDP Leader Jack Layton.

Would someone please give this guy a smack or two, to wake up! Right in his back yard. Must be time to open a new can of worms and find a leader for the NDP that doesn't have his head shoved up his @sshat!

Posted by: MaryM at June 4, 2006 2:37 PM

Who said McCarthyism was dead. You'd never know it at times here.

Wheres the proof, these guys haven't got it right yet so why all of a sudden did they catch on? What happened to the others they arrested in past years?

Good timing taking some of the heat off the atrocities going on in afghanistan and iraq.

Posted by: neutralsam at June 4, 2006 2:43 PM

Just heard on QP that this whole thing might be the result of a sting operation involving those poor innocent young offenders. If these boys could plan this plot, they can also lie about how they got involved. Too bad the CBC and CTV will believe them.

Posted by: maryT at June 4, 2006 2:49 PM

Just heard on QP that this whole thing might be the result of a sting operation involving those poor innocent young offenders. If these boys could plan this plot, they can also lie about how they got involved. Too bad the CBC and CTV will believe them.

Posted by: maryT at June 4, 2006 2:49 PM

Good points NeutralSam! There are many reasons why these men could have had 3 tonnes of fertilizer and detonators. It all sounds quite innocent to me. Maybe they were just planning a really big fireworks display on July 1st to show their love for Canada.

Posted by: Paul from Vancouver at June 4, 2006 2:52 PM

PMPM tried to warn us.

“Snipers wearing camouflage were posted on the roof of the main building and on the roof of an adjacent building that normally houses family court……….

“Pointing at snipers on the roof, Farooq, who would not name his clients, said: This is ridiculous. They’ve got soldiers here with guns.”

I guess we have no one to blame but ourselves.

Posted by: Cal at June 4, 2006 2:58 PM

I was astonished to be informed by the Muslim Canadian Congress that George Bush, Tony Blair and Stephen Harper are, in fact, responsible for the increase in terrorism as evidenced by the recent police raids in and around Toronto.

It is so much easier to lash out at Western leaders than it is to look within the tight-knit communities from which the terrorists are emerging. This is blind willful distortion that suggests that some leaders of this community are in danger of being part of the problem, since they seem to want to avoid being part of its solution.

Posted by: Russ Campbell at June 4, 2006 3:00 PM

Neat hobby, albeit possibly dangerous?

Posted by: multirec at June 4, 2006 3:05 PM

Canadian arrests will fan debate on immigration
By Bernard Simon in Toronto
Published: June 4 2006 17:52 | Last updated: June 4 2006 17:52

"...Large numbers of immigrants, especially from south Asia, have moved into the Toronto area over the past decade. Most have been allowed to enter Canada under a controversial family reunification provision.

The Liberal party, which formed the government from 1993 until earlier this year, has built a strong constituency in these communities.

The new minority Conservative government has retreated from earlier plans to tighten immigration laws."

Posted by: Bob at June 4, 2006 3:29 PM

I agree very much with all your points, new kid, but, for one. You say

"There are no exceptions, and being a member of an ethnic minority does not give one any special status before the law."

The problem is that multiculturalism in Canada DOES promote exceptions! Rather than asserting that we are all equal and that there is one law, multiculturalism identifies you first and always, as a member of a 'group', a 'community'. Then, it seals off that community, saying that actions taken by individuals within that group are pertinent to the community and are outside of criticism and most certainly, outside of our ability to understand their 'deep significance'.

So, when young men are involved in terrorist planning actions, we are told by the group leaders that we have no right to question what those young men are doing. They, and they alone, define the actions of these young Men of The Group.

The lefties in Canada promote this; groups are closed and no outsider can understand, critique or analyze that group. If you criticize someone who is a member of a group, then, according to the lefties, you are criticizing the group. And, since this means that NO member of any group can commit any crime, according to the lefties, they retreat to primitive reductionism. Blame the US.

Posted by: ET at June 4, 2006 3:40 PM

I guess the MSM has forgotten the snipers on buildings in Ottawa when the gun lobby had their rally there? That was under the Liberal reign of terror--but I guess that was a Canadian value then--just not now?

Posted by: George at June 4, 2006 3:41 PM

neutralsam > "Who said McCarthyism was dead."

Glad you brought it up. Where's our McCarthy when we need him? As we now know from declassified 'Verona Project' files McCarthy, whether you agree with his tactics or not, got it right - most of his targets were traitors.

Posted by: JR at June 4, 2006 3:49 PM


it wasn't a "smug backhand to the regular contributers." It was the expression of a forlorn hope that was disappointed immediately: why can't my viewpoint just be wrong without having to be "perverted" into the bargain?


can I count on your group for mutual support in the all-around defence of freedom against all threats, including any emanating from the Right?


we are of one mind on the simplicity, stupidity and danger of "unilinear reductionism." Can we now stop blaming Islamofacism for everything?

Posted by: agitfact at June 4, 2006 3:50 PM

It seems that one of the possible targets was the Parliament Building in Ottawa. I suspect that the Globe and Mail will have reporters out all weekend looking for a Fenian connection.

Posted by: itlog95 at June 4, 2006 4:01 PM

We actually don't agree at all, ET.

I'm aware that the way our judicial system is set up, with the activist judges and our asinine lionization of "multiculturalism," "human rights" (for those in minority groups but not for others: touche, ET!), and "equality" (some groups--like "victim" groups--are more equal than others) that, as you say, we in Canada actually promote exceptions. We have a two-tier judicial system, as it were.

What I meant to say is that in Canada there SHOULD BE NO SPECIAL STATUS BEFORE THE LAW, based on ethnic/minority status. Sadly, it's all too true that if you are part of a "victim," minority group, our activist judges will wrap you in cotton batten and reduce your sentence because, well, you can't be held responsible for your actions.

Like the Jets sang in West Side Story (some poetic license here):

"Officer Krupke, you're really a square;
These boys don't need a judge, they need an analyst's care!
It's just their neurosis that oughta be curbed.
They're psychologic'ly disturbed!

"Hey, they're depraved on account of they're deprived."

Posted by: new kid on the block at June 4, 2006 4:01 PM

agitfact - what a strange statement you made. I am blaming islamofascism for Muslim terrorist actions. The reason I am blaming Muslim terrorists for Muslim terrorist actions is because...well, gosh, they carried them out.

I am not blaming them for global warming, for Saddam Hussein's totalitarianism, for the failure of the New Orleans police, for etc.

new kid - ?? I fully agree with your comments. That includes no special status before the law.

Posted by: ET at June 4, 2006 4:25 PM

As this story evolves, bloggers from around North American comment.

The Infozone Blogsphere features some of the latest comments.

What is interesting is how many bloggers from many different points of view are seeing this story.


Posted by: TIZReporter at June 4, 2006 4:26 PM

Agitfact: I apparently misinterpreted your response as a "smug backhand"...therefore please accept my apologies. I interpreted that way based on the way you have commented in the past.

Regarding your views being perverted versus wrong, that is just my opinion as I clearly stated...I wasn't attempting to make a factual statement. "Wrong" is acceptable to me and I therefore retract "perverted" from my previous response and replace it with "wrong".

I hope that apology / retraction restores some of your forlorn "hope".

Posted by: Hassle at June 4, 2006 4:37 PM

This was posted at

Reading this poster's message makes my head hurt.

"i know at least 6 of those guys PERSONALLY and they are innocent (in fact most of them are innocent)... some of them used to promote jihad to fellow believers overseas, and they wanted to go to fight overseas (in the battle against Anglo American forces in the Filippines, Chechnya, Iraq, Afghanistan, Filastine, etc.) fact i do it all the time...i support/promote/incite to believers to join the military jihad expeditions overseas...we never plan on doing any terrorist attacks on canadian soil (or any other western nation's soil) of the guys who built the remote control detonator (via a cell phone) did so for his university project in ryerson...many of the evidences ain't evidence at all...God knows how those 3 tons of ammonium nitrate ended up in their possession...this seems like a complete they will torture them into making false confessions....the evidence in many cases is very much planted...and i will find more details in the coming few days (i know them personally to get direct info...not what the jew run media says, or what the dimwit guvernment says)...some of them were tracked and harassed repeatedly by CSIS and RCMP for 3 years almost, and they knew that all these brothers did was incite and encourage believers to join the jihad overseas ...many of them wanted to go personally, but were blocked by RCMP/CSIS... (Zakaria, Abul-Qayum, and Faheem), NONE of them at anytime whatseover wanted to kill innocent canadian civilians or citizens... they are ALL INNOCENT!!! Unless and untill I get accurate information, I believe that they had been setup. I in fact prayed with one of them yesterday, at the Juma'a prayers...they were dedicated to life, and work, and studying,and raising a family (Some of them had kids)...not the baloney the media talks about...the most hardened militant-wanna be was personally against the tactic of using martyrdom operations (aka suicide bombings)...i have had many conversations with them, and they wanted to join the wars overseas, nothing against canadians/americans in our soil ....I will stand by them during their trial, more news coming in the next few days. This is not the first time muslims are framed and setup to look like has been happening during the last 20+ years. This time it happened right in front of my face, to people I knew, right before my very eyes (NOT OFF SOME "CONSPIRACY SITE" THAT I READ)"

Posted by: multirec at June 4, 2006 4:45 PM

Ryerson teaches remote control detonator technology? Using a cell phone? What is happening to higher education these days? Hope the RCMP looks into that curriculum real quick!

Posted by: George at June 4, 2006 5:02 PM

...snipers on roofs

...with guns canada

...i'm not making this up.

...must be the hidden agenda. Sniper on every roof and C7's in every back yard...

Oh, one more thing that would make me sick:

8. News reporters, viewers, rabble posters actually believing in what they say.

Posted by: tomax7 at June 4, 2006 5:54 PM

Canadian resident who joined insurgency killed in Iraq bombing, Web site claims

A former Canadian resident who joined the insurgency in Iraq has been killed in a bombing in the city of al-Qaim, according to an unverified eulogy posted on a jihadist message board and obtained by U.S. terrorism researchers. Abu Yihye al-Urduni was one of six terrorists eulogized in an Arab-language propaganda booklet circulated on several Internet sites used by jihadists, the SITE Institute said. The son of a Swede, he "tried to join the jihad in Chechnya and he attempted to reach it through Canada, but after staying for almost six months in that country he gave the notion up and returned to Jordan," it said, adding he was involved in making propaganda videos of insurgents until he was killed in heavy bombing. The information could not be verified.

SITE Institute

Posted by: JM at June 4, 2006 5:56 PM

...we should start a "guess the days they get" contest.

1. 18
2. 180
3. none, any time given will be docked from the time they spent in custody during court hearings - which will take about 8-10 months to go through diliberations, plus discoveries, CBC interviews and so on, plus hey, wait till summer's over.

Posted by: tomax7 at June 4, 2006 6:00 PM

Dawg isn't commenting today, was he arrested? lol

I've posted now, and before I read this comment. Prescient?

Posted by: Dr.Dawg at June 4, 2006 6:03 PM

...“It is important to know that this operation in no way reflects negatively on any specific community, or ethno-cultural group in Canada,” he added.

If the names released by the police were O'Hoolihan, Murphy, Kelly, O'Brien, Donnely, O'Connor, Crosby, "O'Tool, etc, would they have made the same stupid statement relative to an unidentifiable ethno-cultural group? Not a chance! Sometimes I just want to puke.

Posted by: BCer at June 4, 2006 6:09 PM

Can't wait till someone picks up on the name given for this six-month RCMP investigation, "Project OSage"

Bias, bigoted, and Irish sounding.

Yep, surprized the MSM haven't started howling over that one.

Posted by: tomax at June 4, 2006 6:16 PM

I meant to say, ET, that we don't actually DISAGREE. Too much sun? Who knows? I rarely disagree with what you have to say!

Posted by: new kid on the block at June 4, 2006 6:36 PM

You think scenes like these cause the problem?

Posted by: neutralsam at June 4, 2006 7:31 PM

Would anyone in 1940 have tried to express "understanding" for the motivations of any German-Canadians planning terrorist acts in Canada because our country was:

a) at war with Germany, or
b) had interned some 850 German-Canadians?

Her thesis takes a fresh look at a controversial topic: the internment of 850 German-Canadian civilians during the Second World War. Accused of being Nazi spies, saboteurs and subversives, the internees were granted an opportunity to defend themselves. In the course of these appeal tribunals (the transcripts of which form the backbone of Ms. Lorenzkowski's research) state officials and internees passionately debated what it meant to be a "good Canadian". The study reveals conflicting concepts of citizenship and the important contribution of "hyphenated" Canadians to changing definitions of loyalty, civic duties and the nature of Canadian society...

As far as I know we were as democratic a country after the war as before. Perhaps because our side won, and knew to a large extent what was at stake.

Posted by: Mark Collins at June 4, 2006 7:48 PM

Listining to Rex Murphy today, I have to say at least CBC radio has ONE progam sometimes worth hearing. Trust me, I have a hard time typing it, considering how far to the left even ol' Rex is...
A great mix...
He had an idiot Righty, or course, throwing about "those people" slang. Then there was a whole bunch of left-wingers with absolutely NOTHING to say(in keeping with the tradition of the CBC News department). Next was hard-core lefty crying about the idiot Righty caller, and then compared the contemporary atmosphere to that of Nazi Germany...1939.
Interestingly enough, that was not what angered the host... It was when the woman said that we needed to tone down all this talk, was when Rex was set off.

Best of all, a Good Conservative Muslim took to the airwaves and expressed how enraged he was AT HIS OWN RELIGION. It gave me tremendous hope. For every idiot that has nothing to offer but hate for George W. Bush, I have to hope there is one of "those people"...

Posted by: Knight of Good Mr. Iron Man at June 4, 2006 8:31 PM

Subject: Strip Hindy ET AL.

of citizenship!!!!

"It's time for the Canadian Government stomp this no good ..."*

Let's use a cliche here: The anger is palpable. Appropriate? Yes.

* The rest is here:

Posted by: maz2 at June 4, 2006 8:42 PM

Moving right along to today’s top stories:

CBC- Mosque vandalized after bomb-plot sweep
Globe & Mail- Police urge calm as mosque vandalized in wake of terror arrests

Posted by: Cal at June 4, 2006 8:51 PM

Here's a little piece done by Amy Goodman about media reporting.

Posted by: neutralsam at June 4, 2006 8:59 PM

neutralsam, please update your book mark with new facts:

Probe clears GIs of misconduct at Ishaqi

Posted by: qwerty at June 4, 2006 9:07 PM

Okay, I just watched question period. Puke! Craig Oliver in an interview with a member from the Lib's and NDP throws the word out " entrapment" I felt like Kate yelling at the radio! Then the Lib and NDP throw out the word "sting" and "youth envolved" gave them cause for concern. What the H@!! are they thinking? Sorry, but it is my opinion that these so called "youth" should be raised to adult court. IF they were this intelligent to get this envolved with 3 TONNES of fertilizer, they knew exactly what they were doing!
But on a better note: Rep from the USA said: It was a major concern with the previous Liberal government and their lack immigrantion laws.
(Sorry I wish I was writing the names down!)

Posted by: MaryM at June 4, 2006 9:29 PM

Mark Collins:

Yes, but you only have to worry about German-Canadians who click their heels and know their way around guns. :)

In your streets

In your cities

In Canada

I am not making this up.

BTW, Pass the saurkraut and beer please.

Its that Bavarian Purity Law of 1516 again.

Adolf should have damn well stayed out of the beer hall. Beerhalls are for enjoyment not target practice. Of course he only hit the ceiling.

It is always bad when teatotallers are found in Beerhalls. He cruelly and stupidly applied the Purity Law to races.

Thus, never let teatotallers brew beer, the results are always atrociously disastrous.

Posted by: Hans Rupprecht at June 4, 2006 9:35 PM

Hans Rupprecht: If only Adolf had liked burned cow flesh more and live dogs less.

Plus the odd good Havana.


Posted by: Mark Collins at June 4, 2006 9:57 PM

According to the Ottawa Sun: The father of one of the accused, Mohammed Abdelhaleen also confirmed he worked for Atomic Energy of Canada.
Personally I don't want Homer Simpson or Mohammed Abdelhaleen to have anything to do with Atomic Energy.

Posted by: loboy2k at June 4, 2006 10:12 PM

I think that it is vital that these terrorists be taken somewhere where they can be sweated.

If members of this cell have knowledge that can lead to other cells or to some command and control structure, that information needs to be extracted.

If Canadian law forbids certain techniques that would make information to be forthcoming, then the terrorists need to be taken outside of Canadian legal jurisdiction.

There are probably some grateful Afghan warlords who would be happy to probe the suspects for information. At any rate, they need to be removed from any Canadian environment that would protect them and make them feel secure about retaining knowledge. Whatever information they have needs to be extracted by whatever means are necessary.

Posted by: Greg (outside Dallas) at June 4, 2006 10:40 PM

Mary....I saw Question Period too and was not surprised at more inane journalism....only too typical of those two....Janey and Craigy.

Jane ends the program with how interesting it will be tomorrow in the House to hear the reactions of the government....????? Huh??? Does she get it at all that an attack was thwarted? And that people could have been killed?

Nothing hits home to some people until it hits close to home....

Posted by: anonymous at June 4, 2006 10:55 PM

Hey, neutralsam, you link and listen to Amy Goodwin, radio girl for the Barking Leftist Moonbats. I wouldn't expend a calorie on your link.

You've crawled out of nowhere recently leaving the typical leftist Useful Idiot droppings. I don't know which is more disgusting, the recently foiled little jihadis or a sniveling leftist Useful Idiot like yourself and Amy Goodwin. Her stupidity and frivolousness, your admiration of that stupidity, and others like you have provided comfort and indirect support for these little monsters in our society.

The little furry rodents on the left can afford to be frivolous and stupid so far because, like the 1930's, nothing really really bad has happened yet.

So, neutralsam, with your neutral position(the point of your moniker?) in the WOT, party on. For now.

Posted by: penny at June 4, 2006 10:56 PM

First: The US congressman was Peter King. Now to the fertilizer. Ammonia nitrate 30-? costs about 350.00/T here in southern alberta. You can no longer buy the really strong stuff 40-60. If purchased at a bag or two at a time, by many different people it might not cause suspicision. 3T could be loaded on a 3 ton truck. A pick-up would need about 3 loads because of weight. 3T of this fertilizer is about 125 bags. Any truck rentals companies being questioned. I'm sure not too many drive a 3T truck around TO., unless they are needed in the job. Did these idiots all line up and buy 2 bags. There were several raids in several countries in the past week and some suspect they were all related. Thank God for NSA in the states. I think the muslims broke their own windows to make us think they are victims. All those making jokes about the fertilizer, it would not be easy to store that amount, or move it without drawing attention. It is certainly much more than that one bag shown in the video. They should never argue with a retired farmers wife. Lets hope our liberal judges don't grant bail in anything under 10 million per person. Again, follow the money, who is paying for the legal defence. There is a plea out asking for donations to pay the bail for that other muslim jailed on a warrant. Stockwell Day was on several programs this am, but did not appear on one and she tried to make it appear he refused to comment on the story. Typical cbc garbage. Sure glad the world media is blaming the liberal government for all this because of their lose immigration policies.

Posted by: maryT at June 4, 2006 11:08 PM

Look around yourselves,watch and remember this suicidal exercise in political correctness.

These poor misunderstood boys are victims,and are being framed by white Canada.Muslims in this country are also oppressed by the rest of us,they are victims too.CSIS set them up in a sting and all muslims in Canada are now in harms way because of our hatred for them.These boys may just be avid gardeners.Islam's Canadian leaders will blame everyone but their own to deflect criticism.
That is just SOME of the clear ridiculous messages I have received from the media and the left on this.
I am shocked at the shear number of STUPID Canadians I have witnessed with white-wash stains on their hands.Why don't they all just start chanting.."we are wimps,come kill us,we are wimps,come kill us"...because that is the signal they are sending to terrorists.

Posted by: Canadian Observer at June 4, 2006 11:11 PM

Mosque vandalized after bomb-plot sweep

The vandalizing of a Toronto mosque on the weekend could be part of a reaction against Islam after police arrested 17 Muslim men and youth in southern Ontario amid accusations of an al-Qaeda-inspired bombing plot, an imam says.

Windows at the mosque were smashed and the front door was broken sometime on Saturday night or early Sunday morning, Slimi said.

No one was hurt, nothing inside was damaged and there was no looting or spray-painting, he said.

It will be interesting to see the results of the police investigation. If I heard correctly on the news this afternoon, there is video surveillance footage at the mosque. If it turns out that they were masked, then I would speculate that it was not a reprisal. It could very well have been an attempt at damage control.

Posted by: Mark M at June 5, 2006 12:35 AM

MaryM -- I had to turn the cbc off when they mentioned entrapment, because I might have punched that little f... right through the screen. As Mississauga Matt mentioned a few weeks ago, I am with him -- someone stop this planet, I want to get off.

Posted by: morison at June 5, 2006 12:41 AM

CBC- Mosque vandalized after bomb-plot sweep
Globe & Mail- Police urge calm as mosque vandalized in wake of terror arrests

Reminds me of some headlines post 9/11. The media seemed to hope the bad, mad, REAL "religious fanatics" (American Christians and/or other American citizens) would begin hanging random Muslims in the street. Of couse, it didn't happen. Why? Because Christianity, and our society overall, teaches love, tolerance, and peace -- not HATE. Can you imagine such a reaction as that from the CARTOONS within the American Christian community? How does the left get away with portraying American Christians as the "religious fanatics" in this picture? How is it the left aligns itself with sexist, racist, violent Islamofascists (yes I mean only that portion of Islam however broad or shallow it may be that thinks Infidels are not people and should be killed), more closely than Western Christians?

Posted by: Tom Penn at June 5, 2006 2:03 AM

Loboy2k; you gave me quite the shiver. Will try to read.

To everyone else; thanks for answering my query.

Just watching CTV National. Sickening how these people are crying " Why? We don't understand. We raised you, educated you, welcomed your parents..." I'm paraphrasing of course. Youth feeling disenfranchised was what Sandi Rinaldo uttered.

I think it's called respect - completely NON-EXISTENT. None for authority, no respect for life (own or otherwise). Raised as martyr's.

Am also catching comments and postings about denials from family members etc. Lawsuits, planted evidence, etc. It will be interesting to see this make it's way through the courts, if it does.

As for one poster's comments about wives etc. knowing; I'd be surprised if they knew. Women are third class citizens don't you know and certainly not to be trusted with that kind of info.

Posted by: Cheri at June 5, 2006 2:36 AM

Everything I've found so far is here:

Terror Strike Toronto ( Aborted! )

Posted by: backhoe at June 5, 2006 3:27 AM

I've heard journalists from both the CBC and CTV refer to "disenfranchised youth" being caught up in these recent events. What a sniveling attempt to minimize, even excuse, their criminal behaviour.

At some point in our lives, haven't we all felt "disenfranchised" or "left out of the loop"? But does that in any way justify planning the mass murder of innocent people???

What makes these screwball wannabe jihadists so special, that Muslim community leaders, lawyers, and media morons feel compelled to excuse blatant criminal intentions with the feeble excuse that the accused are or were somehow "disenfranchised", and therefore not responsible for their actions?

What a load of horsesh!t.

Disenfranchised MY A$$.

It is becoming vividly clear that the only truly disenfranchised people in Canada are the ordinary, hard working, law-abiding, tax-paying suckers who have to continually shell out more taxes to support this kind of of BS.

Posted by: Joe Canuck at June 5, 2006 3:29 AM

Joe Canuck fails to get the elementary distinction between trying to explain a criminal's motivation and excusing it. Knowing how the criminal thinks is a good way to prevent becoming a victim. This is precisely what the authorities are supposed to have done in this case, and it looks like it paid off in arrests. Thank goodness that there are people who are smart enough to see this distinction and use it on our behalf.

I swear, some of the comments posted here are so dumb I'm surprised their authors can even operate a computer.

Posted by: R at June 5, 2006 4:32 AM

'Couldn't get myself to watch the CBC or CTV this weekend. I knew what the crap was going to be: snivelling and whining about how deprived and how hard done by our Muslim population is in Canada. As I said in an earlier post, the houses and neighbourhoods of the arrested men are far more upscale than mine. Am I jealous? No. But I'm wondering where "these poor alientaed and disenfranchised young men" comes from?

My daughter, just graduated from university and soon to begin paying back a student loan, doesn't have a job yet and is a little depressed. Does she feel disenfranchised? Maybe. Is she going to order up some ammonium nitrate to take out a few citizens because of her angst? I don't think so.

I'm suspicious about the broken windows in the mosque yesterday. Surely, the Muslims who attend that mosque might have suspected a possible back lash and might have kept an eye on their facility. I suspect that it was a 'homegrown' job, much like CSIS's discovery that the fire bomb at Morgentaler's Harbord Clinic back in the '80s was set off by one of Morgetaler's supporters, to make pro-lifers look like violent rednecks. BTW, when the finding that it was a Morgentaler supporter who had destroyed his clinic, there was no mention of it in the MSM, unlike the day after it happened when the MSM was all over pro-life groups, with headlines implicating them before investigations had even begun.

If these young Muslim men are feeling so disenfranchised and alienated, perhaps they need to consider going back to the countries from which their families came in the first place. Their alienation may have something to do with their OWN refusal to assimilate into Canadian society. Of coure, PET was the architect of hyphenated-Canadianism, and set the system up to encourage ethnic ghettos in Canada. What's happening now is a logical consequence of his wrong thinking. Too bad the Librano$ were so quick to implement Trudeau's twaddle.

Posted by: new kid on the block at June 5, 2006 7:14 AM

Losing ID could become more costly

...The paper reveals the number of lost or stolen passports jumped to 35,343 in 2004 from 30,341 the previous year. The number of missing permanent resident cards climbed to 6,842 from 2,783 during the same period...
...The review, completed last July, found "notable differences" in the security features of the 35 federal documents examined...

Posted by: JM at June 5, 2006 8:37 AM

Mark Collins,

read what you posted here at 07:48 PM yesterday verbatim on two other blogs this morning.

Are you a cog in a propaganda machine, or do you just like to see your name in electronic print?

Posted by: agitfact at June 5, 2006 9:00 AM

Gun Registry Gun Registry Gun Registry


$1,000,000,000.00 $$$$$$$$$$$$ Dead Dead Dead ...

Frightened rural Ontario residents describe 'terror-training camp'

Chris Wattie
CanWest News Service; National Post

Monday, June 05, 2006

WASHAGO, Ont. -- It was the bursts of automatic gunfire that made the farmer in this tiny central Ontario tourist community think something was amiss as he fed his animals after dark.

"I feed my animals at night," the farmer said Sunday. "So I'd be outside late at night and I'd heard the gunfire from over there, automatic gunfire. I'd hear rat-a-tat-a-tat-a-tat.

"I just knew there was something wrong about them. It was obvious they were doing some kind of military training."

The sounds of war were coming from what police now describe as a terrorist training camp on an isolated property just outside Washago, about 150 kilometres north of Toronto.

Late last year, residents began noticing groups of as many as a dozen men, dressed in camouflage clothing, drifting into town. The strangers drove up from Toronto in three or four vehicles at a time. They would converge at the property, staying for a week at a time, sometimes longer.

"They were out there almost every other week," said one neighbour, who like all of the local residents willing to speak with the National Post Sunday, was too frightened to give their names. "I would see like eight of them at a time usually, sometimes as many as a dozen.

"They were all wearing camouflage gear and carrying big bags of equipment coming and going at all times of the day or night."

The newcomers quickly drew suspicious stares in this small, closely knit rural community on the edge of Ontario's cottage country.

"You weren't going to tell me these guys were cottagers or even hunters for goodness sake," said one woman who lived down a quiet country lane from the group's makeshift training camp.

"It was kind of hard to miss them," she added.

The men were using property that belonged to a local described as "a bit of a hermit," a rocky section of land covered with stands of poplar and red pine, overgrown pasture and swamp.

They would drive down a long dirt lane, through a gate marked No Hunting Or Trespassing and set up tents, obstacle courses and firing ranges throughout the sprawling property.

There is little sign now of what police allege was a training camp for a group of Toronto-area men charged on the weekend with plotting terrorist attacks in Southern Ontario.

All that remains is a derelict building with its roof partially collapsed and a missing front door, which may have been the door shown by police at a Saturday RCMP news conference to announce the arrests. Police believe the door, riddled with bullet holes, may have been used for target practice. ... more

Posted by: maz2 at June 5, 2006 9:02 AM

Funny how the media spins things.

Depending on the story/source, the terrorists were either "disenfranchised youths" or from "all strata of society." Well, can't be both.

Lets go with the "all Strata of Society" line. If so, then the "root cause" crap is invalid. If the terrorists have nothing at all in common with one another except the fact that they share their Islamofascist Imperialist agenda, then there can only be one conclusion: it's the Islam, not the poverty (which is clear that they were not all from a poor, uneducated underclass.)

The left's usual story line is yet again a fraud. Poverty, lack of education, lack of prospects is not the problem. Their fascist agenda is.

If it's the "disenfranchised" line: you're full of it. These people were mostly middle and upper-middle class people with education and prospects. The idea that poverty or lack of prospects is a total fraud.

They don't hate us because we haven't GIVEN them something, they hate us because they haven't been able to TAKE everything from us.

They hate us because they're the racists.

They hate us because of our culture, values, lifestyles.

They hate us because of our religions and/or lack thereof.

They hate us because they deny our rights.

They hate us because they see us as slaves, and themselves as the masters. They are working towards a day when this becomes reality. They've been at it for 1400 years.

Wake up idiot lefties, you have the most to lose - you'll be the first against the wall under the caliphate.

Posted by: Warwick at June 5, 2006 10:33 AM

Well said Warwick. And from the sounds of it they were working towards that goal in the Washago, for one. Right under everyone's nose. In Canada.

Posted by: Cheri at June 5, 2006 11:09 AM

Bolshevik's are coming to steal our women. Save us Mr. Harper

The individual has no freedom to protest in the west.
All information that people in Canada received was selected and organized to support fascist beliefs.

For a bunch of guys with guns how come they never showed the guns they had? Strange when they show what they found in drug busts they always show the guns found here they say these guys had guns but no guns, they went out and bought the fertilizer for the pictures.

Posted by: neutralsam at June 5, 2006 11:17 AM

No Neutralsam,

Bolsheviks are not coming to steal our women. But Islamofascists would stone them to death for not wearing a burqua.

If you think that the individual has no freedom of dissent in the west you are too stupid to be in society. Go away.

There are no Fascists in Canada of any pull with the exception of the Islamofascists.

The terrorists charged in the recent unpleasantness were charged with conspiracy to bomb stuff, not shoot stuff. They showed the materials used to make bombs. If they were charged with weapons offenses, one would expect the police to illustrate the weapons used.

Do society a favour and never, ever vote. Ever. You don't have the mental tools.

Posted by: Warwick at June 5, 2006 11:32 AM

Just heard on Rutherford from Assistant Superintendant for the Commissioner of RCMP (?) that they moved when they did because they posed an imminent threat. They possessed the material and the desire to be a clear threat. Words to that effect.

He also said that they are confident with their investigation thus far, have used every tool avail. under law. They will not stop until all avenues are pursued.

Posted by: Cheri at June 5, 2006 11:47 AM

Just watching Carolyn Dunn, and am furious. When reporting she has that Keith B smirk, and smiling eyes, shaking her head slightly,and is sending the message, much ado about nothing, then she talks about the muslim community and watch how serious her face gets. Is part of the job description to work for the cbc is -never appear serious when talking about conservatives, be very serious about plotters etc. They haven't got the message yet, if the CSIS bldg went down, the cbc bldg and employees across the street would have been involved. That is the only good thing about this, the end of the cbc.

Posted by: maryT at June 5, 2006 12:13 PM

One report says one of the suspects had open heart surgery 3 mos ago, the father just stated his son had this surgery 6 wks ago, can't walk more than 50 ft, can't lift. The cbc is trying to make the muslim community victims by interviewing all parents ect. This father just told cdns to wake up to the racism against muslims. I imagine there are many people out there watching mosques etc with video cameras, cell phones etc, to catch the muslims vandalizing their own property. I want the video showing the 48 broken windows. What, the cameras weren't working. Deluge the cbc with complaints of their attempts to turn this into nothing but a minor mishap.

Posted by: maryT at June 5, 2006 12:50 PM

RE: "Joe Canuck fails to get the elementary distinction between trying to explain a criminal's motivation and excusing it. Knowing how the criminal thinks is a good way to prevent becoming a victim. This is precisely what the authorities are supposed to have done in this case, and it looks like it paid off in arrests. Thank goodness that there are people who are smart enough to see this distinction and use it on our behalf.

I swear, some of the comments posted here are so dumb I'm surprised their authors can even operate a computer.

Posted by: R at June 5, 2006 04:32 AM "

R, perhaps you should have read my comments when you were fully awake. In no way did I criticize the actions of the authorities. In fact I applaud them. My frustration is directed at the bleeding heart journalists who continually try to explain and at the same time excuse the actions of these jihadi-inspired scumbags with fraudulent arguments such as 'they are disenfranchised' or some such similar drivel.

As for your statement "Knowing how the criminal thinks is a good way to prevent becoming a victim." : tell that to the thousands of victims and their families in the ME, in Africa, in Europe, in NYC WTC, in Spain, in London, etc, etc. Your profound insight in this regard is hardly comforting, given that you cannot even properly read other people's comments before declaring them dumb. The dumb one here is YOU.

Posted by: Joe Canuck at June 5, 2006 1:13 PM

Hooray for Canada!

I suspect that this loose thread will reveal much more around the world as the Canadians, Brits and Yanks (and others) continue to pull and unravel it.

Posted by: Mason Jahre at June 5, 2006 1:41 PM

Hooray for Canada!

I suspect that this loose thread will reveal much more around the world as the Canadians, Brits and Yanks (and others) continue to pull and unravel it.

Posted by: Mason Jahre at June 5, 2006 1:42 PM

Hooray for Canada!

I suspect that this loose thread will reveal much more around the world as the Canadians, Brits and Yanks (and others) continue to pull and unravel it.

Posted by: Mason Jahre at June 5, 2006 1:43 PM

A famous WWII British special forces soldier, Colonel Smythe, said that he held in "deep suspicion people who wish to deeply understand the mind that controlls the hand that picks one's pocket."

When Liberals' demand for humanity oversteps its boundaries, it becomes naive wish fulfillment and puts everyone into jeopardy.

Humanity is an admirable quality up to the point that the demand for it gets other people killed.

The best way to deal with "Chuckles" Osama and all these young terrorists in the Toronto cell is 2 in the head.

Existentialism was the first philosophy to help us understand that "you are what you do." If you steal, you are a thief. If you kill an innocent person, you are a murderer. If you're rounding up enough explosives to eliminate a city because of your ideals, you are a bloodthirsty terrorist. It doesn't matter if you think of yourself as just another high-spirited frat boy who likes to pull pranks.

Solution: 2 in the head.

A message to our good-natured, fun-loving bloodbath terrorists. It may have been Salvatore Allende who said, "Whenever 3 sit to conspire, 2 are fools and 1 is a government agent."

For everyone's information, Canadian spooks are great. Despite all of the political bullshit and despicable politicians, the good ol' boys network started in WWII still exists in the intelligence communitry. Our spooks have a lot of mutual cooperation and joint activities together.

A big Texas thank you to all you Canadian spooks out there.

Posted by: Greg (outside Dallas) at June 5, 2006 2:02 PM

When I heard that a mosque in Toronto had been vanalized right after the announcement of the capture of the alleged terrorists, my first thought was, what a terrible thing, however, the more I thought about it the more I suspected that members of the Mosque themselves might have done the damage...

Think about it. What better way to deflect any blame from themselves and onto 'ignorant hate mongers' who defaced their place of worship? Did you see how fast that part of the story was picked up by...CBC et al?

I betcha we never find out who the culprits of the window smashing are.

Posted by: Scott at June 5, 2006 4:31 PM

"I will say that they were steadfast, religious people. There's no doubt about it. But here we always preach peace and moderation," the prayer leader, Qamrul Khanson, said Sunday.

Thanks to Lost Budgie for this link.

Posted by: tomax7 at June 5, 2006 6:23 PM

I would recommend this site. About all the atrocities commited by the "Religion of peace" Everyday.All over the world

As for those who continue to believe fairy tales that because we went to Afganistan on a UN mission. That we are now being targeted is asine in the utmost. If not willfully being obtuse.We did NOT start this. THEY did .

Frankly even if it was the case . So what? Where at war sir. That means they want to kill us & have stated this many times. Do you need a bullit in your brain or an bomb go off to admit this? They started this with air hijackings in the 70's. OH yeah your daddy was still a hippie. I guess its easy not to understand any past that does not include YOU.

Islamofacism is real , not confined to one sect. Those that do not join them . Should be fighting them.For there religions honor if not there own. As I would a Christian religious cult if, it where doing the same.

I am a Christian & would have no problem going after a koolaide cult like wabatism & its evil imps. Jim Jones comes to mind , only multiply that by millions, than stir in Nationalism & a Nation State.. Starting to see why this is serious,When dealing with this group?Than add in people willing to strap explosives on there own progeny.A fine fatal cake.

Islam & politics are inseperable. Untill they have seperation of powers & not that just any Joe Mahomud can set themselves up as an Iman. Than have absolute power in there religious state. By religious fatwas & a seperate religious police.

They are an infestation of hate coupled in murder.

Christianity reformed without losing any doctrines. Is it so hard to ask these people to become civilized? To leave behind hate for Women. Slavery. Public execution. Cutting peoples hands off. The idea that all men are slaves so slavery is just fine.

Honor killings of sisters by brothers & fathers even if they are the victims of a rapist. OH no. don't go aftert the monster when you have your own family to decimate with your anger.

Its very hard to be treasonious in a Nation where Seperation is legal. Some folks on here come very very close.When you would see your own people suffer & die at the hands of another for no reason. Your as guilty of this as they are.

Ask as judge some time, about knowing about murder or commiting a crime while one happens.

Posted by: Revnant Dream at June 6, 2006 1:11 AM