. . and the system still doesn't work . . . cool eh, not only steal the money but screw up the work.

Sounds like our health care "system"

Heads should role, many heads.

I note that as of 12:25 pacific time the CBC has yet to report the auditor Generals findings. It is long overdue for that organization to be audited. If it wasn't for the public need to be ignorant of political activity in Canada the reports would be a step forward in our search for a democracy

Right, melwide - as of 4pm Eastern Daylight Time - there's not a word on the CBC website. They have a reference - that the MPs have rejected Harper's nomination for the Accountability commission - but nothing about the AG's report.

The Toronto Star has a headline saying only the the 'Gun registry ran up significant costs'. Doesn't sound too nefarious, does it?

The National Post says that the 'former Liberal government hid more than 60 millions'.

And the G&M actually says that they 'cooked the books'.

However, CBC and CTV television are carrying reports about the gun registry and can't get out of the facts that it's a travesty.

It will be interesting to see how Duffy and Newman enable the Liberals to slither out of it all, and somehow, blame Harper..for..well..Oh- and the US for making guns.

2002 eh.

Remind me again who the finance minister was at the time?
Wasn't he asked to resign/was fired on June 2 of that year (the reason for which is yet to be revealed...just like these figures have been till today).

Remind me who the finance minister was at the time.

I also recall that when Fraser tabled that report in May of 2002, he lost his job for some reason. Nobody seems to agree on whether he was fired or actually resigned.

This latest from the AG would suggest that if the PM of the time knew these facts it would be the former.

Sorry double post.

Oh now we watch a bunch of civil servants fired, and payed out their severance packages when they should be in jail. Add that to the money already squirreled away -- er I mean lost -- to setting up and running this registry. It makes me want to puke.

The CBC is now reporting that the Gun Registry is approved of by all police, and that it is accessed by all the police, and here it comes, 5,000 times a day, as they search for 'who has guns'.

Please, bloggers, get the word out. This 5,000 meme is pure garbage; it's junk. Doesn't anyone stop to think???

If you ask questions about guns 5,000 times a day, which is 35,000 times a week, you are stating that there are that many gun-related crimes in Canada! There aren't; there are 15,000 per year.

That 5,000 hits is an automatic computer-generated hit on the full data base of records. If you run a red light, if your corner store is robbed, if your child's carseat isn't buckled down, that data-base will be hit. But the hit has nothing to do about actual gun-crimes; it's just an automatic computer hit.

Does this really surprise anyone? I don't think anyone will be truly content until justice is done. I think the Right Honourable (?) Jean Chretien and Paul Martin need to stand forward and tell us more details... Gomery II, anyone?

"The "red flag" contracts include those worth less than $25,000 - exempting them from a competitive bidding process - whose value subsequently increased by 150 per cent; properly awarded contracts whose value increased significantly; and "fixed-price" contracts awarded in 2001 and 2002 that had no measurable goal and no record of a product being delivered."

hmmm...contracts awarded and no product being delivered...

That sounds so familiar...but I just, I just can't seem to place it at the moment...

Too bad Ms. Fraser lumped in the Pre-Columbian (aka Native) affair's scandalous accounting report in with the registry report. It needs to be singled out.

"That 5,000 hits is an automatic computer-generated hit on the full data base of records."

means nil . . hits on a system that doesn't work means the results are useless & can't be trusted.

CBC . . . shilling for the loonie left.

It gets worse--the Police Association President stated today that 50% of the info on the 'database' is false--20% of the renewal registrations sent out this year were returned to the centre because no such person existed at that address! Many guns do not have a registration number so the Firearms Registry just sent a sticker to be placed on the gun--hoping that it would be an honest criminal that stole it and did not remove the sticker. Makes the Keystone Cops look like Einsteins? All this for a cool $2B

You would think the Liberals would be embarrassed, wouldn't you. Well, you'd be wrong.

Speaking of computer systems, somewhere along the way I saw that a $257 million contract was awarded to EDS and CGI.

I have worked for 2 of Canada's largest financial institutions, both with customers in the millions, and therefore at the very least on the same scale as the gun registry, and I have never heard of a project that even approaches that number - not even close.

But I'm just a guy who presses keys to make the code (and the mistakes, 'natch!). Are there any IT project managers/execs in the house who can boast of a project in the same range as the gun registry? Of an order of magnitude less?

Theft of money is agreed upon by everyone, now there is more evidence of fraud - what happened to the rule of law??? Are Liberals simply above the law??? Disgusting.

Finance Minister matters, for sure, but it is actually the Treasury Board and the head Bureaucrat that are really responsible for the implementation.

Paulie knew, thats why he resigned, he knew the crap that was coming down the pipe. Shame on the bureaucracy for letting their political masters hide the evidence. Many senior bureaucrats should be in trouble and/or finding their evidence that they were ordered to by the PMO...hello choo choo man...

I am equally puzzled about the cost of the software development. Can any IT professional explain why some kind of off the shelf system couldn't have been used. Or perhaps licencing the software maintained by a provincial Motor Vehicles Branch and making some minor modifications? Chevrolet = Smith & Wesson, etc.

http://www.theinfozone.net/SALW/Canada.html#AlbinaGuarnieri

In 2004, Albina Guarnieri was tasked with reporting on the gun registry.

It looks like that report, declared a cabinet secret by the Liberals should have Conservatives searching for it and comparing the solutions that hidden report offered, and see how they compare to what the Conservatives now want to do.

Politically, the Liberals would look even more incompetent if those solutions were ignored.

TIZ

I don't get it. The gun registry was suposed to cost two million. Where are all the cost over-runs 21m, 39m, 60m and missing 60m comming from? If the cost is now over 1B where did the 998m go? I've herd the term bull shit baffels brains, I may even have used it a time or two, but this seems to be well beyond that.

Um... I don't see any URL for trackbacking, so for now I'll just drop my post URL on the same topic here:

The Smoking Gun: The Liberals$ Lied, The Gun Registry Died

http://thecanadiansentinel.blogspot.com/2006/05/smoking-gun-liberals-lied-gun-registry.html

Well, is anyone really surprised to learn (officially) that the Librano$ fecked up the gun registry, apparently to enrich their cronies via contracts that ballooned up to 150% over their original cost (which was low enough to exempt them from competitive bidding)?

One thing we can say: perhaps they're not as stupid as they seem. Perhaps the stupidity is an act... maybe they're criminal geniuses... who knows?

If they've done this sort of thing with everything in the government, just think of all the billions we'll save once it's all brought to an end! Just imagine!

No more paying for work that was never done! No more hundred-dollar pizzas! No more $700 lunches! No more envelopes full of cash, stained with marinara sauce! No more gum, nor half-million-dollar checks for David "I'm entitled to my entitlements" Dingwall! No more Librano$$$$$!

It's morning in Canada!

Just another adscam-just like all the other adscams. HRDC, etc. etc.

Parliament was misinformed?

No shit?

So ... what happens now?

Nothing?

No shit?

Why the hell am I honest?

*&#$*&@#$#@#* %*@#*&%$##@!*& Liberals!
They make me sick.
Round up the whole lot of them, and toss them in jail where they belong.
Bloody arrogant criminals.

Say again?

Only in Canada can someone steal nearly the GDP of a small African country and the MSM doesnt even report with disgust.

CBCpravda still harping about vote buying in the big cities.surely even they will realize that the libs didnt win the last election.
they havent reported yet that PEI will suffer the biggest loss because thats where the libs bought the votes with the gun registry. Of course according to Peter Pansbridge- the fantasy news anchor - conservatives where shutout of PEI and liberals were shut out of Alberta - that makes the election even.

Liberals in stripes!

If Canadians do not see librano$$$ in striped jumpers perpwalking for the cameras it wil be very difficult to take any form of government seriously in this country.
If they get away with this,...again, why pay tax?
Why be honest if the money is just stolen?

Joe Canuck, Come to my house and I'd love to prepare you a VERY special country meal to make you really sick. As Sir John A. once said, "YOU make me sick...)
I'm a Liberal, a law-abiding citizen, with very modest habits and I AM SICK OF YOU TRYING TO WIN A MAJORITY with the same attacks and smears that got Conservatives the present minority. The grassroot members of my party are energized to support the new leaders and the renewal of our commitment to an inclusive society.
I read your nonsense all over the blogosphere and needed to puke back. Guess I'm a troll now.

What legal advice, exactly, were the Liberals given, that 'encouraged' them to use millions of dollars of taxpayers' money without reporting its use to parliament?

Will those lawyers be asked to explain themselves in court, any court, any committee, anywhere?

Who, exactly, benefitted from the legal advice?

The job is not finished yet, sorting where that money was used.

Emily, the auditor general does not act for the Consevatives. She is independent and she has issued a report that indicates that the Liberals misled Parliament. This in itself is a serious charge and should make all "law-abiding" citizens sick. There are also findings that some of the contracts for under $25,000 and therfore exempt from the bidding process were in fact paid out at significantly higher amounts. The auditor general will be investigating these contracts. There is a pattern here that resembles what occurred in the Gomerey inquiry. It seems like your inclusive society only includes friends of the Liberal party.

Did anyone else see Greg Westin on Mike Stuffy Live tonight? 'Couldn't get himself to connect the word Liberal with corruption. Westin talked about "mistakes."

What the H---? There seems to be no outrage in the MSM, let alone in the Librano$, who are slipping, sliding, smirking, and spinning all over the place. Stuffy had ex-Deputy PM Anne MacMillan on for **&^%$#@!&*'s sake: She's old news, past her sell-buy date, and safe, I guess.

Heads need to roll, careers need to be on the line, people need to go to jail--well, where do I think I am? In a country that honours law and order? THIS IS CANADA.

Oh yeah.

Please: No Gomery II!! Gomery I uncovered only the cess pool, it didn't dredge it.

I was very disappointed in Gomery's final report, where he exonerated Paul Martin. It seemed clear to me that he, too, was in the Librano$ pocket.

Now that we've got Sheila Fraser's report, isn't it time to finally DO something about all this thieving and thuggery?

Just don't ask Gomery back!

Emily..
"Attacks and smears"? are you sure you do not have the wrong party? Seems to me that it was just this tactic that your beloved liberals used for many years to maintain their hold on government.Can you actually post with a straight face and tell us that the libs were not fearmongering in regards to PMSH
and his so called "hidden agenda"?

Perhaps it was just this fear of what would be found in those audits which really had the Libs sweating.I imagine they would have tried everything in their power to hold on to office just for that very reason..

Don't shoot the messenger,save your bolt for the now glue factory bound liars and criminals that you so evidently support..

Emily, to release the TRUTH is not an "attack" or a "smear". What your people do IS attack and smear regular folk like myself.

And your party is NOT one of inclusion. Not at all. It's a party of bigotry, proven to have practiced racism and sexism in at least civil service hiring practices. It's full of anti-Semites, Christianophobes, anti-Americans, etc...

It made Canada a safe haven for Islamic terrorists and for communist Chinese spies, not to mention facilitating organized crime and violent gangs of all sorts.

Compassion and tolerance? Sure, and Tinkerbell just flew out of my bum.

We're not impressed with your repeating the same tired old leftist lines. Neither are most Canadians, for they've heard it for years and years and found it to be nonsense, which is why we won and you lost.

Thank goodness the dangerous radicals who call themselves "Liberals" were dethroned by Canadians who woke up and smelled the corruption!

Thank goodness we live in a democracy!

"...the signature of former prime minister Jean Chretien at the bottom of a Treasury Board request to finance the sponsorship program."

AdScam Chretien/Martin: Librano$.

Theft of taxpayers' money by Liberals.

Where are the criminal charges? Where are the Mounties? Where is Justice Minister Toews?

The evidence is overwhelming for criminal charges to be laid against the Librano$.

When will criminal charges be brought forth? ...

Canadian Taxpayers Federation- Gun Registry

“........The auditor-general found the Canada Firearms Centre made progress in disclosing its spending. However, she also found that whenever gun registry costs ballooned beyond what Parliament had authorized, or above what the government had publicly promised, the true amounts were hidden from legislators and the public,” said CTF federal director John Williamson. “This represents a serious breach of Parliament’s constitutional authority to approve program spending. ... via newsbeat1.com

....
When Guite cross-examined Conway, he made two points with the help of only two pieces of paper.

Guite pointed to the signature of former prime minister Jean Chretien at the bottom of a Treasury Board request to finance the sponsorship program.

Guite asked Conway if it was normal the prime minister would personally sign such a document.

"It's extremely unusual," said Conway, a top civil servant at Public Works. "In fact I have never seen it." Les Perreaux(CP) via cnews

I am waiting for Mr.Harper to announce a probe.
Those involved in this scandal(for that is clearly what it is)must be held accountable!We CANNOT miss this opportunity to clearly warn all those with their hands in the trough, NO MORE!!

Oh,and one more thing,a pox on all the broadcasters who would dare spin these happenings into a "Harper wrong to kill registry"headline instead of focusing on the story that Canadians MUST NEVER FORGET.Billions have been pissed away and stolen through the Liberal's many scandals.We all know for a FACT that millions have been traced directly to the party,yet not one proud member has yet to face ANY consequences.Canadian values my ass!

Canadian Sentinel; Well said! This should make every tax payer sick. We have all been aware for sometime that it was bad, but how much more clear does it get? LIBERALS COOKED THE BOOKS!

Law-abiding citizens are naturally sickened by the betrayal of the few that led to the smearing of many and the exhuberant war cries from blogging conservatives angling for a majority.
Straightfaced, I can tell you that the hidden agenda exists and is being implemented in what our PM thinks are digestible increments. No national visions such as an equitable childcare program, a decentralized federal government that will certainly erase the national vision with which we have grown up. In my riding in Eastern Ontario, a great number have low literacy, low incomes;there is high violence and sexual abuse, poor physical and mental health and little individual strength to cope with such needs as childcare in a profit-oriented world with $100 a month (before taxes). Despite revulsion for bad-handling of tax-payers' money, we also have no clue as to how conservative policies will take away life support systems that are used to a greater degree here than in your community and that is why a conservative represents us in Ottawa. This PM didn't have us in mind when he played to the arena crowd.

Just watched Wayne Easter (Liberano from PEI) trying to tell the world that they were heros in getting the gun registry over runs under control. Twit.
And Emily, sorry but there were more than a few. Knowing and pretending not to see still makes you guilty.

So Emily, how do you justify the lieberals angling for a majority in any election? Presumably you're sickened by that, too? If not, you are wilfully hypocritical, a mere mouthpiece of the party. As has been stated previously, liberalism is a mental disease. You appear to have a bad case of it

Here we go again with the silly "hidden agenda" nonsense.

Geez... all those problems: doesn't Emily realize that since the Libranos were in power for thirteen long years, it was them that oversaw their worsening? And did nothing to help it? All they cared about was exploiting Canada and Canadians for their own personal gain, no matter what the cost.

And that cost inluded national unity. Remember the '95 separation referendum? They twiddled their thumbs and whistled past the confederal graveyard. And then there was the whole Adscam thing whereas they stole money and used it to lie to Quebeckers with unfettered, cavalier impunity.

And they offended Alberta and the West to such a degree that the separation movement was really gathering momentum at an alarming rate...

Emily, about that monster in your closet...

And about your willing support of those crooks who only care for themselves and wish the people would just think as they're told and vote as they're told...

And save the canned leftist rhetoric. We've heard it all before.

There's no defending the Liberal Party of Canada anymore. It's thoroughly disgraced and should be euthanized.

"In my riding in Eastern Ontario, a great number have low literacy, low incomes;there is high violence and sexual abuse, poor physical and mental health and little individual strength to cope with such needs as childcare in a profit-oriented world with $100 a month (before taxes)."

Seeing as your beloved Liberals have held power for most of the last century ... it's the Cons fault? Riiiiiiggghhhht!

Seriously, you're having us on, right? I mean nobody writes this stuff and means it.

"National vision?" Why don't you just call it by its real name - socialism.

"Profit-oriented world?" Who uses that kind of terminology?

Emily,
Are you for real? Equitable childcare that excludes people like my sister who prefers the care of her children by a next door neighbor? Low literacy rates, low productivity, lower world competitiveness and after 13 years of Liberal rule you think PRIME MINISTER Harper has no vision? You remind me of the rabble that forced me and many of my family members away from the Liberal party and firmly into the arms of the Conservatives.

The Liberal party is not the choice of average hard working Canadians. It is not liked at all by average Quebecois. The Liberals are the political party of choice for those persons predisposed to dishonesty, entitlement, abuse of power, moral corruption and ethnic separation.

Damn it kursk, I'm still waiting for PMSH to implement the "hidden agenda". Don't tell me the Liberals lied to me again. :)

Two things make me ill about this scam, adscam, etc. First; I just sent in my tax return (cheque attached). The second is the thought of all the provincial politicians, Premeiers, and big-city Mayors, in charge of our municipal tax monies, who so publicly supported the Liberals in the past few elections.

I don't buy for a seconnd that the timing of this report wasn't buried on purpose and that bureaucrats are solely to blame.

Will we hear some defense/explanations from the contractors and bureaucrats blamed?

Emily actually is partially right....yes it will be doled out in digestible increments. Yes Emily it will be very painful to be a Liberal supporter because over the next six to 9 months new revelations of Liberal waste, diversion and dissembling will be be revealed.

The problem is it will be true. And it will remind Canadians about the true depth the rot had got to. A new leader doesnt change a thing. The supporters who willingly suspend disbelief while the magi make money disappear for THEIR benefit, not the benefit of the undereducated, undertrained, overworked and residents of Eastern Ontario you claim to be apart of.

By the way, where is your Liberal provincial government to assist you?

Anyway, it will be a striptease but these revelations will come out and there will be an investigation and there will be charges.

Not all Liberal supporters were dirty, but the leadership and infrastructure of the party was rotten. One short stint in opposition wont clean this. Only a near death experience where your party comes close to anhilation will cleanse the rot.

Just as Canada needed a vibrant option on the centre right it needs a vibrant option on the centre left. Right now that doesnt exist.

It will be slow and painful, that part you got right...

Liberals are corrupt and Harper is scary (not to mention related to Harris and Bush).

Same old; same old.

First, a cbc reporter said that the registry is hit 5000 times a YEAR, so that must be the truth as the cbc is so honest. Second, re the 1200/yr. That is on top of the 245.00/month that parents get with the child tax credit, that replaced the family allowance. The 245.00 increases at certain ages. I received my last check in April 2006, as my grandson turned 19. When my first child was born in 1954 the going rate per child was 5.00 per month. Where do all the libs get the idea that the family allowance was cancelled. Remember it used to be taxed, on the return of the highest income spouse. Since 1988, with 2 grandsons born in 1985/87, I received over 400./month. Very welcome money. How are the candidates for leader responding to the AGs report. The liberals will elect a new leader, but it is evident by liberal posters defending the libs, that the mindset of the liberal voter will continue to support crooks and corruption. No new leader will change what liberal voters think and accept as normal so to get elected he will have to be just as dishonest at martin and chretain. Maybe they are all hoping for some of that gravy money, or a senate job, or to be the next GG. At least in the states CEOs and govt officials go to jail.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/realitycheck/20060516sheppard.html

This link is to CBC's 'Indepth Reality Check' and is so full of factual errors and straight out apologism for the Liberals.

My 'favourite' part is where he says if only $60 million is unaccounted for what's the big deal.
Nevermind of course the sure-to-be-found contract problems or the outright misleading of parliament.

Someone could do a reality check on this reality check.

Gotta love good ole Rex Murphy on The National. He just referred to the gun registry AND the Kyoto Accord as "piety pretending to be policy."

I don’t envy Sheila Fraser & her teams having to sift through the stacks of paperwork. Contracts Canada currently has 143,030 contracts listed on their website worth $41,699,904,533. And approximately 1/2 of these contracts (77,493) are for contracts valued at $25,000 & less:

CONSTRUCTION - 12,849 - $2,071,862,409
GOODS -80,189 -$16,983,735,710
SERVICES - 43,110 - $17,890,382,053
SERVICES RELATED TO GOODS - 6,882 - $4,753,924,361

Some of the more interesting billion $ sub-categories (which are broken down further) include:

GOODS
> Fuels, Lubricants, Oils and Waxes (579) $1,312,385,019
> General Purpose Automatic Data Processing Equipment, Software (19318) $2,700,562,121

SERVICES
> Financial and Related Services (431) $1,622,989,030, of which $1,196,439,999 was spent on Debt Collection Services (22 contracts)
> Information Processing and Related Telecommunication Services (3,022) $2,787,306,800
> Relocation Services (6722) $1,654,929,942
> Educational and Training Services (1,579) $2,148,751,910, of which 8 contracts worth $63,027 issued for Reserve Training - Military

SERVICES RELATED TO GOODS
Aircraft and Airframe Structural Components (40) $3,718,476,263

In addition to investigating those $25,000 contracts, it's time that the AG start scrutinizing the contracts of those crown corporations considered 'exempt' from this process.

http://csi.contractscanada.gc.ca/CSI/PROD/en/applctrl.cfm?cmd=expdsrch&init=1&f=expertSearch

Every time anyone out there hears someone bleat the ' 5,ooo hits a day for the gun registry' yell BULLSHIT. I have heard that most of these "phantom" hits come from registry offices checking out your driver's license renewal.The police love it because they love anything that will give them more info. Every police force in the country would love a helicopter. It's worth it if it only saves one life,yeah right,ban cars and a lot more would be saved. What a great day for common sense!!!

Other than Emily, where are all those Lieberal trolls tonight. They seem to be very quiet. I wonder why? Well - John Chrittenden, I do believe your greatest wish is about to come true. Me thinks it's about time. I can hardly wait for this government to start opening up more cans of worms. It's been a great ride.

Good points wallyj. Edmonton Police couldn't afford a helicopter so the money was raised by donations/fund-raising. Now if only the CBC was similarily supported.

The quality of info the police have access to is in question. Hardly surprising given the lack of expertise in identification, let alone the incompetence in handling and storing it, securely. Fraser criticized the fact that volunteers gathered and handled the info.

On a day like today,any moral-minded liberal supporters should be hanging their heads in shame and embarrassment.

I put forth the following:

When Mulroney's government acted with shameless arrogance,conservatives themselves slammed them down hard!In fact,so hard that the party itself was basically destroyed!

When Martin/Chretien governments are caught red-handed in numerous scandals,exposed as utter ditherers(even by the MSM),liberals show their "outrage" by trying to punish them with a smaller minority.Which,BTW,they would have attained if not for some ethical Quebecers.

Kind of speaks for itself,doesn't it?

Yak,yak,yak all you want left-minded ones,but people are ULTIMATELY judged by their actions.Be assured,the rest of us have noticed you all seem"just fine"with the corruption and sleaze permeating your party.Shameful!

The gun control thingie was never about saving lives or lowering crime. Criminals of the ilk of the wacko left wingers like the liberanos/dippers rely on criminals to terrorize unarmed citizens to keep the people terrified (quiet) and working to pay taxes. It is impossible to control people who fight the 'inforcers' (ask Castro about that or Chevez or Stalin or Hitler - when the Jewish people in the Warsaw ghetto got some guns and ammo and stated shooting soldiers working for Hitler the soldiers didn't want to go into the ghetto and terrorize the Jewish people anymore because their buddies were getting killed!). The liberanos and their dipper allies are ememies of the Canadian people, they should all be in the jailhouse - working for us to pay off their debt to the Canadian people. How could anyone in their right mind have voted Liberano/Dipper? Poor, stupid people! What did any of those driven sheep ever get out of the Liberano?Dipper crowd but lies and poverty? The MSM in this country make me feel sick, I cannot believe how 'owned ' they are. I liked the 'quiet' and peace that made this country seem sane again right after our PMSH and the Conservatives took over; now those egregious MSM are making me feel scummy and wormy again. I so want all those puky talking heads at CTV and CBC GONE. They are working for BAD people and we are paying them. I agree with your excellent comments Cheri and NKOTB. Well said. BTW Emily is just a goof, if she likes Liberanos she is as crooked as the thieves in parliament and the MSM.

Typical CBC. Most long-gun owners live in rural areas -- just about every farm has a .22 -- so naturally The GTA National shows urban target-shooters taking shots at human-form paper targets at ranges.

And of course we were treated to a long segment showing the pro-registry lobbying efforts by family members of the victims of Gamil Gharbi -- er, Marc Lepine. Because if the gun registration process had been in place at the time, there would be a better chance that the gun would have been registered.

"Liberals are corrupt and Harper is scary (not to mention related to Harris and Bush).

Same old; same old." (Joanne C. at 09:32 PM)

The non-partisan voter's dilemma in a nutshell! One request to make my choice in the next election easier: easy on the gloating.

I am already tired of Baird mounting a photogenic grin and mouthing platitudes from my TV screen, the same performance he gave too many times at the provincial level, remembering the great experience he brings to the federal cabinet from a government that saved Ontario by running it into the ground. And I remember Mellowroney and the universal sleaze and his indirect contributions to the Harper Cabinet. So, forgive me if I keep on checking the emperor's wardrobe for new clothes.

You just want to hope that there aren't too many of me, or it will be a long time before the CPC get the majority they crave.

Fire (at) the General! Chretien must be held accountable for this. And Wendy Kookier should have to repay the treasury.

Whoa, everyone, this is MUST see CTV Mike Duffy coverage.  (Windows Media Player required)

And this is important.  (WMP required)

Golly Gee the idiots are back. Time to sit back and read the nonsense they have been spewing here for the past 3 months.

Emily, it sickens me to hear you say "No national visions such as an equitable childcare program". A national childcare program is NOT equitable. It benefits dual-income couples. Those couples who have one parent stay home to raise the children are excluded. It also benefits those single mothers who are able to earn enough money to make working worthwhile. How about the single moms who are forced to live on welfare? They are excluded from any benifits a national daycare program offers. $1200 for ALL parents, single, married, common-law, unemployed, on welfare, middle class, rich, doesn't matter. You're ALL INCLUDED!!!!!

Emily's posts remind me of Sheehan's wingnut writings about her visit to Canada.

Gee Emily, you make your riding sound like a true hellhole.

As mentioned, when you consider how much your vaunted tolerant, inclusive and progressive Liberals have been in power the last 40+ years.....

Liberal values are Canadian values right??

Canadian Observer, yesterday we agreed, to-day we disagree.

In the famous 1993 election, the CPC got 16% of the popular vote, or nearly 2 million votes. Those votes can only have come from hard-core Conservatives, since not many Liberals would have voted CPC under the circumstances of that time. So I don't think that your claim of the PCP self-cleansing itself of Mulroney is tenable. It was non-partisan swingvoters like me that did it. And got rid of the Liberals in 2006!

heres a good one from CBCpravda -- ontario firms want softwood lumber dispute reopened.

anything east of manitoba hardly was affected.
CBCpravda again revealing its Ontariocentric crap reporting.

half of BC forestry workers out of work and CBCpravda worries about a couple of Walton mountain size sawmills .

free the west.

Emili go to Cuba. And do not comeback.

Het,agitfact,you are right,for the good of Canada I hope there isn't too many like you.

This registry business just gets more and more ugly. I don't think it can be saved. The information is poorly managed and likely not even close to being useful in terms of having a reasonable picture of gun ownership. In addition the gun owners don't really want it. How can you have an effective law when people are not going to support it? Its time to stop the bleeding. Its costing 80million a year to register some of the guns some of the time. Soon we will need to upgrade all the hardware and software at another 500 million or so. I say get rid of it now.

Agitfact,many of those that took a moral stand did it after the election,remember a little craze called Reform?
That still does not change the fact that liberals ANYWHERE do not even seem slightly perturbed by the many disturbing findings(man,am I being generous here)of auditors and inquiries pertaining to the LPC.
Really,what is your "wrongdoing threshold" and if they haven't reached it yet,how low do they have to go before YOU say ENOUGH!?

Seems we all have to slapped in the face to actually get it: The government of the day for the last 13 years lied to us on Day ONE and never stopped. Lied. Stole. Lied about Stealing. Lied about "Separation"... We have paid billions and billions to liberal's friends and buddies while honest folk like the president of the BDC had his house raided, got fired from his job and generally had his life ruined. Had to go to court to get satisfaction. Too late then, isn't it after all the power and might of the PMO's office has come to bear. No public outrage.
Scrap the GST: NEVER happened. Flaunted that in our faces ala Sheila Copps.. she even went to a safe riding to 'prove' we didn't want them to scrap it... how silly do they think we are? Pretty safe bet we could be conned again. And we were.
HRDC. Indian Affairs: AS yet to be audited by our erstwhile Ms. Fraser... if we are outraged by Gun Registry, Adscam... we ought to be outright apoplectic at the news she would have for us if she gets her hands on all of that mess.
Parliament fought over information about HRDC for the longest time with Jane Stewart running interference for that greasy haired Pettigrew who ran and hid... and we all sat back and watched, shrugged our shoulders and VOTED the liberals IN AGAIN... for 13 years.
We absolutely cannot blame the msm for their obvious bias.. for the clues were there for all to see and read about... it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that Chretien was over stepping his bounds over the BDBC debacle. Over Shawinigate... endless clues that these people did not deserve to govern, yet we continued to VOTE for them.
Now we have actually managed to vote in a decent Prime Minister and a damn decent government and we STILL have no minds making excuses for the liberal party??!!
Even those sitting in opposition ought to be ashamed they wear the title of 'liberal' mp!-
and the pathetic arguments they put forth.. somebody put them out of their misery and next time around, let's do this right and give the government a big majority. RIGHT AFTER all the checks and balances have been put into place by the policies of this government. For that is mandatory for our way of government to continue.

"So I don't think that your claim of the PCP self-cleansing itself of Mulroney is tenable. It was non-partisan swingvoters like me that did it. And got rid of the Liberals in 2006!"

Agitfact, I completely agree with you.

Many, many people (and voters) rely on intelligence rather than ideology. I was raised as a supporter of the Liberals, largely due to the fact that Diefenbaker's cancellation of the Avro Arrow project left my family stranded at a US Naval airbase in California and damned near put us in bankruptcy. We spent years getting back to some semblance of normal; as a kid, the only person I really hated was Diefenbaker...

Being a vocal supporter of Trudeau in Calgary during the period of the NEP was no picnic, but I prevailed. And during the Mulroney era, I loathed him, and still do.

But then, starting in 1993, I saw first hand the level of dishonesty and corruption in the Chretien gov't. Couldn't take that, eventually saw Harper, and thought, now here's a guy that seems honest and competent.

If, tomorrow, the CPC were to dump Harper and replace him with a Mulroney clone, then I'm handing in my party card. If not, I'm staying.

That's MY version of reasoning versus ideology.

Bruce: Makes perfect sense to me. And I think most of us think the same way.

And now that we know that Chretien was never 'the little guy from Shawinigan' and we have been had bigtime.. it is time for us to start thinking about people going to JAIL!

Oh, just shoot the registry!!

At least its death would be quick and merciful.

Everyone has a thought ... most are insightful ... and we all have much to learn.
Just as I tonight listening to CBC and the women who lost sisters in the Lepine tragedy. They said clearly, and in words even I understood, that they needed something to give meaning to their personal tragedy. I didn't hear that before, probably because I am deaf on the issue of gun control.
Problem is, and with due respect and certainly empathy, they put that meaning into the firearm registry (or so the CBC report led us to believe).
Sadly, the Cukiers, liberals and many many others offered this registry as a "meaning" ... worst yet they offered it knowing it was a blatant piece of fiction, not one of consoling the families left, but one of furthering personal gain and fame.
Yeah ... we as gun owners and law abiding folks have suffered, and so have our sports of hunting and shooting. But not more than those who were sold by self-serving folks of the lobbies and their liberal puppets.
The best solution now? Scrap the registry, maybe throw a few hundred million into policing, a few hundred million into real problems like health care, a few hundred million into education .... hmmm, throw the rest into reducing the debt.
I am not an accountant, but this makes sense to me.
Rick

Emily, you are the only brave Librano$ to contest this post and these questions asked by Maz2.

**AdScam Chretien/Martin: Librano$.

Theft of taxpayers' money by Liberals.

Where are the criminal charges? Where are the Mounties? Where is Justice Minister Toews?

The evidence is overwhelming for criminal charges to be laid against the Librano$.

When will criminal charges be brought forth? ...

Canadian Taxpayers Federation- Gun Registry.**

These questions are justified. Are these the men of honour you support at all costs?

My head would hang in shame.

Your amazing resolve not to see the truth reminds me of Saddam*s defence minister, who assured the world via Al-Jazeera TV that American troops were being crushed, when in fact they were just down the street pulling down one of Saddam*s statues.

Mind boggelingggg! TG

Since C-68 came in to law,one thing has been bothering me.

Five years later, my question is, who goes to jail now?

The person with the twelve dollar Cooey shotgun that belonged to their Dad, or the sleezy pricks who defrauded their country out of millions?

Maybe we finally have the right people in the right place to answer that.

-ADSCAM -- Canada's Corruption Scandal Breaks Wide Open--

Hey, Agitfact, here's a fact: the CPC didn't exist in 1993. It was the Progressive Conservative Party which got the 16% to which you refer.

And the Reform Party got 19%.

Now neither the PCP nor Reform exists anymore. We have the Conservatives, who've learned the lessons of the mistakes they've made in their previous lives. We have grown while the Liberals have self-destructed and continue to do so.

The Liberals haven't learned a fecking lesson at all!

I'm afraid that you, Agitfact, are full of shit.

And I believe you're a Liberal supporter, against all logic and reason...

And, BTW, stop living in the past, you anachronistic dinosaur.

The Conservatives are the party of today and the party of the future, and we're here to stay, so get used to it, pal! ;-)

Common sense indicates that its time for the Chief of Elections Canada to deregister the liberal party of Canada.

Emily writes: "a decentralized federal government that will certainly erase the national vision with which we have grown up."

You must have grown up, Emily, in the recent past, in the Trudeaupia Canada has become, to make such a statement. The founders of Canada envisioned decentralization as a reality. Canada is a vast country and the idea was a federation of provinces, each co-operating in a federation that would benefit the whole country. Obviously, each province has unique characteristics which makes it only logical (unless you're a money and vote grabbing Librano) that each one will contribute in a unique way to Canada. THAT's the "national vision" we want in Canada, not the Librano$ "lump us all together, the better to tax you with" mentality

She also writes: "In my riding in Eastern Ontario, a great number have low literacy, low incomes; there is high violence and sexual abuse, poor physical and mental health and little individual strength to cope with such needs as childcare in a profit-oriented world with $100 a month (before taxes). Well, Emily, all I can say is "Welcome to Trudeaupia."

In the past 35 years, since Trudeau and his many puppets have formed Liberal governments in Canada, the populace has become increasingly sluggish and less likely to be innovative in solving problems as they wait, zombie like, for "the government to do something"--whether it be welfare cheques every month or yet another government program. We see where all the Liberal government programs have led us: into a tax and spend mentality which hasn't seemed to help your region, Emily. With the Libs, there will always be the "solution" (sic) of throwing hard-earned taxpayers' dollars at a problem only to find months or years later that because there was no plan and no follow-up, there was no success.

The Liberal plan then? more tax and spend, more ensuring that the Canadian public become reliant on them, more smoke and mirrors that the Libs are "the party of the people," all the while their leaders and cabinet ministers are feathering their nests very nicely, thank you very much.

Emily, it's called stealing and it's called fraud when the money is collected and spent secretly and without proper checks and balances--when it is in fact deliberately hidden from the people.

It's the people's party alright: the DUPED people's party. The kind of people's party that Canada no longer needs. It never needed it in the first place and that is the Liberal's greatest sleight of hand: Voila, the rabbit in the hat; only, there never was a rabbit, and I'm not sure there ever was a hat, either.

Just an observation on media spin: notice how every report now seems to include a reference to how "Quebec" or "Quebec and the big cities" don't agree or will have problems with the Conservatives proposed plans? Seems to be taking over from the "American-style" lingo.

Killing the gun registry? Won't go over big in Quebec and the big cities. Extending the Afghanistan mission? Won't go over big in Quebec and the big cities.

I guess perhaps we should all just give up on democracy and allow ourselves to be ruled by representatives from "Quebec and the big cities".

All great comments. We want justice..
But I ask, is there nothing we can do other than complain here.
What about some form of citizens arrest ....
Or perhaps ask the RCMP to formally investigate..

I just think something more concrete has to be done.

Any suggestions ?

Re the Auditor General's Report and the Gun Registry, I've just sent the following to the CBC Ombudsman:

"COMPLAINT

"The big news of the report was Sheila Fraser's stinging indictment of the Liberal government's actions and integrity in its handling of the Gun Registry.

"So, imagine my surprise when the coverage of this story on the 6:00 a.m. CBC Radio news this morning overlooked the gun registry altogether. The big news regarding the registry? Mould in the homes of Native People and the transport and high costs of certain foods to the Inuit. Not a whiff of Liberal corruption here.

"(An AMERICAN story--Enron--was near the top. Go figure.)

"Such unprofessional reporting undermines entirely the motto on your page: "accuracy, fairness and integrity". What accuracy, fairness and integrity would that be, Mr. Carlin? Except for Radio 2 news, which I hear because I like the music, I avoid the CBC altogether--especially its blatantly biased news coverage.

"I pay good money to the CBC. I expect it to live up to its motto. (Though I don't hold my breath.)

"P.S. Are you trying to avoid being contacted? I clicked all over your page, trying to find a way to contact you. Finally, I saw the six small entries above your picture: the last one? 'contact us' in very light gray print on a white background. Looks like camouflage to me. At best, it's a gross disservice to your patrons. With all the taxpayer $$ the CBC gets, surely it could figure this one out."

I urge Kate's readers to inundate the ombudsman's office with complaints. Will the CBC acknowledge or change its unfair policies and practices? No. But at least the record will show that the citizens of Canada aren't fooled by its magical thinking, and it can't say it wasn't aware of the contempt in which it's held by so many of us.

Some people got wealthy off of the contracts for the gun registry....always the problem when questioning of the implementation of a policy means you are "evil" because the policy is considered sacrosanct.

A mature democratic process invites and welcomes the questions....the liberals clearly didnt want questions.

Who got the money and where did it go? They are 992 million dollars or 496 times over budget!

Where did the money go and how much ended up back in the Liberal Party....Adscam showed how they ran the machine...do you think they invented it then?

Yep, we need to get on this.
I still dont see where the money went. I want to know why it cost almost 100 million a year for 10 years to put a data base together.
I also want to hear one (yes, just one) concrete instance where the registry did any good.
One thing i think is being missed by the media and the general population. We had a system of vetting potential gun owners (fac)prior to the registry, and i believe that will continue. I hope Mr. Day makes the point in his remarks today.
BTW, a police chief on CTV this morning has the daily hits on the registry by police up to 6500 now, lmao.
I am emailing CTV asking their reporters to ask some pertinent questions when they are interviewing anyone to do with this issue.

My husband has registered his guns (one of the law abiding citizens - sigh); because of the rules, everytime you move to a new house you have to change your address with the registry

A year or so ago, we built a new house and moved out of our old one and into an interim house for three months. Because we have a PO Box, the only address we changed to that interim house was his address with the registry.

So this year, we get our tax notices from Revenue Canada - my address was our PO box - his address - you guessed it - the interim house.

When he challenged Revenue Canada on it - he got a nervous laugh and a response that they didn't know how that could happen.

So much for security of data - no wonder gun collections get stolen. This registry is a data bank for criminals, but the libs want to keep it.

Oh wait - data bank for criminals? liberals?

Sigh

CBCpravda and its usual spin - never mention that Mark Lepine's name is Gamil Gharbi an Algerian Arab. but do spin the long gun angle.

another billion dollar boondoogle.
but why would CBC worry about that? . they are the Canadian Boondoogle Corporation.

I read with interest Emily's post above. As there are other posts on other blogs from others saying esentially the same thing - "Liberals at the grass roots are going to fight to win" etc etc., there is obviously some underground internet movement from the grassroots - the mantra - that old Lib line

DENY! DENY! DENY!

Good luck to you sweetie - unfortunately, you are fighting with lies which when held up against the facts, just can't hold up!

Canadian Sentinnel,

First of all, you don't stand on gaurd for me!

Secondly, the Reform-Alliance-CPC is barely the party for today and is clearly not the party of tomorrow.

Nobody in their right mind can embrace the CPC. They only have a minority because the Liberals screwed up so badly. Liberalism is the wave of the future and once the collective memory of the populace fades to black they will rise again.

Conservatives always succeed at 1 thing though...that is pissing people off with their cement-headed attitude.

OK we all know & agree that the gun registry is a total ****up, millions upon millions missing, no big surprise here. But what i found to be interesting is that they were paying millions for rent of buildings, more then the market value if the building was for sale. Who owned these buildings is question that should be asked, liberal freindly owned?? will we see another adscam who knows?

The problem with comments such as those of David Brown is that they are not analyses, they do not provide reasoned arguments for the support of the Liberal Party. Instead, they are purely emotional assertions, rather like supporters of a soccer game screaming for their team to win.

But governing a country isn't a playoff; it isn't a game; it isn't about one or another set of young men against another set of young men. The focus shouldn't be on the players but on the country and its population. A focus on the electorate rather than on Team Liberal must ask questions - such as: what are your policies about this and that? Liberals, in my experience, don't have policies. They instead focus only on Team Liberal and want that Team to win The Cup (the election) and stay in power. The good of the country and population is irrelevant.

Therefore, since winning isn't dependent on physical and intellectual capacities, as it is in a sports competition, but only on manipulating the public, then, that's what the Liberals do. They manipulate the public. They use our taxpayer money to fund their activities of propaganda, of pleasing this group of voters (SSM, the gun registry, Quebec) and ignore smaller groups of voters.

Finally, we have a government that is focused on policies. The Liberals and NDP are going crazy; they don't operate by policies; they operate by emotion and manipulating the public to vote for them.
Emily has pointed out that her region of Eastern Ontario is, after decades of Liberal rule, a mess. It's not a vote-heavy area.

David is a typical Liberal, raised to reject evaluation and operate only by faith. It's His Team. Period. Don't evalute. It's unCanadian. Remember all those Liberal ads? Pure propaganda. Pure manipulation of us.

As pointed out above, what's with the lawyers? Why would the government seek the advice of lawyers about accounting practices? Clearly, to find out if what they were doing was illegal. Just one more glimpse into the seedy world of the Liberal.

Good morning!
Kate's post and comments remind me of a family story. An aunt was driving down to the city and her sister asked her to take a great load of cookies, etc. from her restaurant to their other sister who had 5 boys. " Take the box into Peg's kitchen and stand back! You'll get knocked over in the rush."
I don't deny anything. Cookies is cookies. I didn't make them. I just wanted to bring some fresh air and pause to the gobblers in your gated community.

Alberta Girl, when Emily talks about grass roots of the Liberal Party, she isn't talking the same kind of 'grass'.

Chicken Sentinel,

my apologies, there are so many ways you can type the initial letters for Conservative-Party-Canada (with Progressive thrown in) and my fingers missed. A real error of fact I must admit is that it was Kim Campbell and not Mulroney who was thrown out in 1993, but you know what difference the change of leaders made. Jesus Christ could have lead the Conservatives in that election and produced the same result. (No offence meant, merely emphasising a point.)

You, of course, represent the best hope of the Liberal Party. Having little to say but doing so with your usual vehemence, will allow the LPC in due course to point to your ilk and ask the electorate "Do you really want to be governed by a party of ignorant rednecks?" And political crooks who have spent their time in the wilderness will look pretty good in comparison.

Canadian Observer,

my "Wrongdoing threshold" was Gagliano. That brazen display of party power politics told me that it was time for a change of government. Actually, the shut-down of the Somalia Inquiry in 1997 had already suggested to me where to put Chretien's claims of good government.

David Brown
"the Reform-Alliance-CPC is barely the party for today and is clearly not the party of tomorrow"

That may be true, never heard of them David, we are talking about Canada where no such party exists.

"once the collective memory of the populace fades to black they will rise again."

That will be tougher for you socialists this time around, because your MSM mouthpiece is refusing to abandon ship, and seems to be willing to go down with your rat infested rotting hulk!

Document Prepared by the Treasury Board of Canada Secretariat for the Commission of Inquiry into the Sponsorship Program and Advertising Activities

http://www.tbs-sct.gc.ca/gr-rg/gomery/cisp-cepc

The entire Chretien/Martin Liberal regime started their criminal activities from day one when they assumed control of the Canadian government in 1992.

Chretien set up the "unity reserve" stash following the 1995 referendum as his personal slush fund. His Finance minister was Paul Martin.

The unity reserve was the pipeline through which the money flowed to AdScam.... tens of millions of dollars secretly flowing at Chretien/Martin's personal approval/direction to the ad agencies and others.

The greatest theft of money from the Canadian government ever.

Guite at his trial has pointed out the evidence.

The flow of money through the Gun Registry continued the theft/rape of the Canadian taxpayers wallets.

When will Chretien and Martin be brought before a tribunal of Canadians and be called to account?
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Quote:

"29. There were thirteen such transactions over the period 1996 - 2004. For eight of these transactions, the source of funds was the unity reserve. This reserve constituted funds earmarked in the fiscal framework as part of the Budget decision-making process to provide a source of enrichment funding for activities related to national unity, with allocations subject to approval of the Prime Minister."

Excerpt:

Sponsorship and Advertising Expenditure Management Transactions

26. Expenditure management transactions related to sponsorship and purchased advertising fall into three broad categories:
1. Through the annual approval of departmental reference levels;
2. Through incremental funding to enrich existing programs; and
3. Through internal reallocation within a department or agency.

Through Reference Levels

27. During the period being investigated, the government's sponsorship activities were undertaken predominantly, though not necessarily exclusively, within the department of Public Works and Government Services. These activities did not constitute either a discrete business line or an individual program(8), as the amount of expenditures and the significance of the activities were not material relative to those of the department as a whole. In addition, it is possible that other departments may have engaged in advertising or sponsorship-like activities in what would amount to an incidental part of their regular program delivery activities. For these reasons, other than those transactions identified in Table E-3, the Treasury Board would not, as part of its annual approval of departmental reference levels, have approved any funding specifically for sponsorship activities.

Through Incremental Enrichment Funding

28. As indicated earlier, incremental funding provided specifically to enrich sponsorship or purchased advertising activities would be considered policy decisions for which policy approval would be required, a source of funds would need to be identified, Treasury Board approval would be needed and Parliamentary expenditure authority would need to be sought either through Main or Supplementary Estimates.

29. There were thirteen such transactions over the period 1996 - 2004. For eight of these transactions, the source of funds was the unity reserve. This reserve constituted funds earmarked in the fiscal framework as part of the Budget decision-making process to provide a source of enrichment funding for activities related to national unity, with allocations subject to approval of the Prime Minister. In the case of the other five transactions, the specific allocation decisions were made as part of the Budget decision-making process. The table below summarizes the key process steps for each of these transactions. Furthermore, Part VI of the TBS report prepared for the Commission of Inquiry summarises in detail the various submissions that came before Treasury Board during the relevant time period.

Through Internal Reallocation

30. Public Works and Government Services, as well as any other department would be free to allocate and reallocate funds to advertising or sponsorship activities as part of their overall management of the programs of which these activities formed part. Over the period 1996-2004, there were no such requests for reallocation decisions that required either Treasury Board or parliamentary approval. ...

Document Prepared by the Treasury Board of Canada Secretariat for the Commission of Inquiry into the Sponsorship Program and Advertising Activities

http://www.tbs-sct.gc.ca/gr-rg/gomery/cisp-cepc2_e.asp

Emily, your analogy is incorrect. You didn't provide us with any cookies. Instead, what you did was to assert that the truth, i.e., the auditor-general's report was not the truth but was instead 'lies and smears', and was a tactic of the Conservatives to gain majority power. That's quite a serious accusation, and some of us would like to know your proof.

Remember, the A-G is not a member of any political party and doesn't work for any political party. She works for us - the people. That's her duty. Are you seriously informing us that she has violated that responsibility and is instead, working for the Conservative Party, and is telling us lies about the Liberal Party? Is that what the A-G has done? That's why people have reacted to you. Those are very serious accusations you've made against the A-G.

You are telling us that the A-G is lying; that she is working for the CPC; that the Liberals didn't do anything that she claims she did. Wow. No wonder we've reacted to you! Could you now provide us with proof - the evidence that has led you to these conclusions?

Emily,

welcome to SDA. Your cookies go well with the kool-aid.

"They only have a minority because the Liberals screwed up so badly. Liberalism is the wave of the future and once the collective memory of the populace fades to black they will rise again."

But Liberals keep screwing up and screwing up, again and again and again! Canadians must realize by now that Liberals talk a good game but fail every time on implementing policies. How many times do you expect Canadians to be fooled and keep coming back to the Liberals? To me, this issue isn't so much about guns but about Liberals misleading Parliament.

Emily,
Re: I AM SICK OF YOU TRYING TO WIN A MAJORITY with the same attacks and smears that got Conservatives the present minority.

That is just too bad.

IMO, a Majority for the Conservatives is coming whether you get sick or not as PM Harper will call the next election at the time of and on the issue of HIS choice.

City TV in Toronto headlined the story with "If Stephen Harper's Conservatives get their way, the police won't be able to identify guns in your neighbourhood."

Nice spin. Real nice. Gord Martineau is a slimeball.

Hey David,

You say:

"once the collective memory of the populace fades to black they will rise again."

How do you justify supporting a party that relies on the collective short-term memory of society to forget how morally wrong your party is in order for it to gain support? That you have to wait until you are able to lie and fool the people into voting for your party? That you have to manipulate and use propaganda and scapegoating your opponent with slander and lies to win? Is this your version of a party worth supporting? Worth trusting?

Aren't you embarrassed to be associated with and support a party so corrupt, so lacking in honesty and integrity that you have to wait for the public's anger to fade before you can regain your spot at the trough?

This says everything I need to know about your character and moral compass. It perfectly illustrates what is wrong with liberalism that you have the audacity to defend the indefensible.

It is interesting to note how the Liberals/NDP are shifting the focus about the gun registry to either false or irrelevant issues.

The basic falsehood is the '5,000 hits a day' meme. That's an outright lie. The gun registry is not used, as a gun registry, 5,000 times a day. The fact is, its data base is linked up with all police data bases, driver's licences; car registrations; restaurant permits; files on domestic abuse; criminal cases; civil cases, on and on and on.

Every time a police officer checks out someone's car registration as Mr. X zooms by a stop sign - the gun registry is 'hit' automatically. But, the original access is not about guns; it's about cars.

Since there are only 15,000 gun-related crimes a year in Canada, and most of these are handguns, which have been registered since 1934 (and their registration has never, ever, helped prove a single crime or even stop one)...then, at most, with reference to those 5,000 data base hits per day, less than 1% refer to gun crimes. And none, a bsolutely none, to long guns.

But the other focus that the Liberals/NDP are using to try to retain the gun registry is JOBS. They are saying that the gun registry should be retained because it employs people in the Maritimes and elsewhere. That's just as outrageous as the 5,000 per day meme. We Canadian taxpayers should hand over our money, not to give us services, but to provide employment for others.

Our money is used to provide jobs in an utterly useless and irrelevant task. And the Liberals and NDP want us to agree to that.

Why shouldn't our money be used to provide jobs for a task that gives us some valid return for our dollar?

Has anyone informed CTV that the police already can't identify the guns in anyone's area?

Handguns, which are the weapon of choice in most shootings in cities, have been registered since 1934. So? The registration hasn't done a thing about stopping or preventing gun crime, for the basic, mind-shattering reason is that no sane criminal is dumb enough to register his gun.

And long guns are rarely the weapon of choice, and again, no registration is going to stop its use in crime.

So what if the police know that a certain household has a gun? Are they going to sit outside in a squad car and wait for the owner to use it in a crime?

Nice post, warwick. You've said it perfectly. How can someone support a political party, which has been shown, by audit and by judge, to be corrupt? How can someone say that this Party should be the governing party of Canada, and all that is required is 'to forget their corrupt actions'. That's really quite insulting to Canadians. David isn't asking the Liberal party to change. He's asking the people of Canada to change, to forget what they have done.

So far, the Liberals haven't shown any remorse, have made no apologies to the Canadian people, haven't returned the millions stolen. Nothing.

Greetings all.

I just got off the phone with a nice lady from the Conservative Party who lives in Miriamichi. She was seeking donations, but that's not the interesting part.

Turns out the Miriamichi office of the gun registry laid off about 100 workers a couple months ago. I found that quite interesting because I've heard nothing about it in the snews.

She also said that most of the locals in Miriamichi would LOVE to have a job at the registry office because the pay is great and the benefits rock, but they can't get in because you have to be -bilingual-. Meaning the only people getting jobs there are from La Belle Provance. Apparently this is a source of some considerable unrest in Miramichi. Never heard that either.

So there you go. More news you don't get on CBC.

I told the nice lady that if Stevie and the lads kill the registry, or even just maim it horribly, I'll send them a nice donation with which to get a majority in the next election. Conservative Party poobahs take note, I'm not alone in this. Multiply The Phantom times seven million torqued off gun owners. That's a pretty decent payday, dudes.

David Brown,
Re: Conservatives always succeed at 1 thing though...that is pissing people off with their cement-headed attitude.

As a proud cement head, I hope Michael Fortier just issues the order TODAY to turn out the lights and turn off the air conditioning at the gun registry.

agitfact (agitator? fact? whatever) stated that Harris' government "ran Ontario into the ground."

I was born and raised in Ontario and as I recall - After years of good government provided by Davis's Conservatives (big blue machine), Peterson's Liberals ran up a huge debt that was then doubled by Rae's socialists. In fact due to both of them, Ontario lost its AAA credit rating when Standard and Poors downgraded it.

So, keep the agitator, but dump the fact part. Idiot.

Incidentally, to Emilly and David Brown, why is it you guys think people like me have to be demented because we don't agree with you?

Have some respect for your fellow man and give up the hate. It'll be easier on your liver.

Emily says: Guess I'm a troll now.

Maybe, but you're also an idiot.

If things are so bad in Eastern Ontario, maybe 13 years of liberal misrule, corruption and fraud had something to do with it.

Emily says: Guess I'm a troll now.

Maybe, but you're also an idiot.

If things are so bad in Eastern Ontario, maybe 13 years of liberal misrule, corruption and fraud had something to do with it.

ET, RE: Our money is used to provide jobs in an utterly useless and irrelevant task.

IMO, commies and socialists know a disarmed and defenceless populace is vital and necessary to maintain power.

Liberals know it too but they prefer to keep their heads firmly planted between their butt cheeks on this issue as it is such a great way to manipulate large budgets and votes with their old stand by strategy, divide and conquer.

The Liberal strategy always puts men against women, rich against poor, East against West, Canada against America etc. etc.

Liberals require racial profiling in the guise of affirmative action and foreign policys that stress the importance of multicultural values even when those values are abhorent to most of us.

Liberals always use politically correct terms like sustainable, inclusive, diverse, and progressive.

The results of many Liberal policies have been bad for lots of Canadians.

IMO Liberals better wake up and build a policy platform that will hold the considerable weight that government requires today or get used to being a minority for a very long time.

Since this latest scandal involving the liberals has pointed out the potential criminality that the LPC has foisted upon the Canadian taxpayer, is there anyway of launching a class action suit for any of the following, grand theft, larceny, fraud, misappropriation of funds, libel, criminal intent, organized crime, or a combination of the above? Any comments welcome, feel free to add additional charges.

Phantom,

It's got nothing to do with the way you are, instead it's the way you and other hard core conservatives present yourselves...As know-it-alls that have all the correct facts who look down their noses at us 'stupid' liberals.

A little bit of mutual respect will go a long way to solving the ills currently afflicting Canada.

Phantom,

It's got nothing to do with the way you are, instead it's the way you and other hard core conservatives present yourselves...As know-it-alls that have all the correct facts who look down their noses at us 'stupid' liberals.

A little bit of mutual respect will go a long way to solving the ills currently afflicting Canada.

David,

What planet were you living on during the last two elections when the CPC and their supporters were called everything from retards to Nazis to religious conquistadores?

What is respectful about stealing all the money then slandering anyone who criticises the theft?

Mutual respect? That's rich coming from a liberal.

Sorry, the left lost my respect long ago and are apparently not concerned with earning it back. Call it a bad break-up but I'm not interested in dialogue. I'm interested in your party being completely annihilated, your leaders jailed, and your government workers, bureaucrats and (tax-funded) special interest groups put back into the private sector where they belong.

Unlike your liberal sheep, I will not forget. My memory will not fade.

Well said David Brown. May I suggest you review your previous post and see if it exhibited that "mutual respect" that you refer to. I don't see it in the phrase "cement-headed attitude".

With the greatest respect, the biggest problem I have with Liberal supporters is there blind support of a party that flouts the law. It is becoming clear (at least to me) that the sponsorship scandal, human resources boondoggle, and the gun registry are part of a systemic pattern of the misuse of public funds by the Liberals over the past 13 years. If the Conservatives did the same thing I would definitely not support them until they had acknowledged their culpability and taken significant steps to fix the problems. The attitude of Liberal supporters, like yourself, that the party simply needs a short time out and a new leader, leads me to the conclusion that the Liberals have become morally bankrupt after years in power. Does none of this bother you?

I wonder how the minds of Liberal supporters (such as Emily, David Brown et al) cannot or will not see the same things that others of us see. How can they be so blind to the corruption? How can they read/see the same news stories as us and not see the anti-Conservative / pro-Liberal bias? How can they make exactly the same claims about media bias that conservatives do...but from the perspective that the bias is pro-Conservative / anti-Liberal?

It's too easy just to say "moonbats" or call the deranged and dismiss them. There has to be SOME specific thought process (or lack thereof) that permits them to fervently believe their perspective in spite of the evidence to the contrary. And reading their posts, I believe that THEY believe their perspective is true.

I'm reminded of a Gary Larsen Far Side cartoon where a group of scientists are viewing a group of morons behind one-way glass and one scientist says to the others "Yes, gentlemen, they ARE idiots...but what KIND of idiots are they?". So, I ask (rhetorically, perhaps), what KIND of idiots are Liberal supporters?

Since this latest scandal involving the liberals has pointed out the potential criminality that the LPC has foisted upon the Canadian taxpayer, is there anyway of launching a class action suit for any of the following, grand theft, larceny, fraud, misappropriation of funds, libel, criminal intent, organized crime, or a combination of the above? Any comments welcome, feel free to add additional charges

Any Lawyers have an opinion on this. I was just about to ask the same question.

AdScam Chretien knew; AdScam Martin knew; other ministers knew that crimes were committed by the Liberals.

Guite knew and is now singing like a canary. Sing, canary, sing....

When will AdScam Chretien/Martin et al be charged with criminality/corruption,etc.?

Joe Canuck says:

*&#$*&@#$#@#* %*@#*&%$##@!*& Liberals!
They make me sick.
Round up the whole lot of them, and toss them in jail where they belong.
Bloody arrogant criminals.
...

Ad man testifies he saw tentacles of PMO everywhere in sponsorship
MONTREAL (CP) - A key witness at Chuck Guite's fraud trial says former prime minister Jean Chretien's office was at the centre of the sponsorship fiasco.
via cnews

David Brown, nice try dude. We're talking here about a multi-billion dollar fraud by the Liberals, but I'm a know-it-all for pointing out that its a fraud?

The "ills currently afflicting Canada" are mostly stuff like the gun registry Mr. Brown. It doesn't take a genius to see that a list of law abiding citizens and their property will not affect criminals, no matter how perfect the list is. That you and most of Toronto don't want to hear it, I can't help that.

Nor does it take a genius to see that single payor health care is a disaster, and the ONLY alternative is ...duh... allowing private pay care alonside the public system. Just like every single civilised country in the world. I can't help it if you don't want to hear that either.

I could go on, but that would no doubt make me a concrete headed know-it-all. I repeat, give up your hate. Your liver will thank you.

RE: "Joe Canuck, Come to my house and I'd love to prepare you a VERY special country meal to make you really sick. As Sir John A. once said, "YOU make me sick...)
I'm a Liberal, a law-abiding citizen, with very modest habits and I AM SICK OF YOU TRYING TO WIN A MAJORITY with the same attacks and smears that got Conservatives the present minority. The grassroot members of my party are energized to support the new leaders and the renewal of our commitment to an inclusive society.
I read your nonsense all over the blogosphere and needed to puke back. Guess I'm a troll now.

Posted by: Emily at May 16, 2006 07:44 PM "

Well, geeee! Thanks for that cordial invitation Emily. I am surprised you would admit to knowing about 'special country meals' prepared to make their guests sick. How often do you engage in that sort of endeavor?

Emily, you claim to be a law-abiding liberal with very modest habits as you put it (special country meals notwithstanding), but if you still fall for their official party lines and turn a blind eye to their rampant lies and corruption, then you are also very naieve indeed.

And as for you reading my 'nonsense all over the blogosphere' as you put it: I seldom post comments here, and I do not frequent other sites, so I don't know where you get that strange notion.

I am simply fed up with the arrogance and corruption of that Liberal dung heap you so naievely support. And by the way, do you get the ingredients for your 'special meals' from that same liberal dungheap, Emily?

Daisy,

the success of the Harris Conservatives (and their Eves successors) was duly recognized by the voters, who gave them 82 seats in 1995, 59 in 1999, and 24 seats in 2003 (Elections Ontario website.)

Who is the idiot?

David Brown: "As know-it-alls that have all the correct facts who look down their noses at us..."

Funny, David... that's precisely what you so-called "liberals" are like! Yep... y'all have a certain "special knowledge" that only you special elitist people possess... yep, sure.

And Bill Graham just loves to point his big chin at people when he's spewing his leftist dogma and lies... so arrogant, patronizing, pretentious, self-righteous... and don't get me started on Hedy "Crosses are Burning" Fry... the eyebrows... the pure iciness... who do these people think they are? Do they have a superiority complex or something?

Damn Liberals... a bunch of arrogant, stuffy, elitist, thieving SNOBS!

Thank goodness they're out of power! Canada couldn't have survived any more of those fascist freaks!

this may be a bit of a stretch, but, since it was the Liberals that had control of the spending and the manner and accuracy of the reporting, could a class action suit be brought against the Liberal party (and perhaps Martin and Chretien), to recover some of the taxpayers hard earned $$$. Even if the action had little chance of success it may ensure the parties financial woes continue.

If comments here by Emily and the like are indicative of the the mind set of the liberal party and it's supporters it is little wonder we got in such a mess with these people.
IS there a disconnect somewhere... between the brain and the psyche? Most people were taught right from wrong, it is assumed, from an early age at the feet of their erstwhile parents, grandparents.
Yet, in our society today there is a huge disconnect. From the courts on down to the man in the street: Right is what you can get away with and wrong is what you get away with , how much and how well you snookered your sucker, and how much of your ill gotten gains you were able to squirrel away.
Whether it is running a questionable steamship lines. Running bogus Oil for Food money , laundered through banks with very questionable ties with Canadian powerbrokers, setting oneself up to pay as little tax as possible on those ships... and having the gaul to run as PM all the while...doing these things and hiding that and many other thefts, dark secrets and frauds from those who pockets continue to be picked by all and sundry... and yet we have supporters of this?
Have we forgotten what we were taught? Have we forgotten that crime is PUNISHABLE. The higher the crime the more severe the PUNISHMENT.
The worst of criminals go free today to perpetrate their crimes on the innocent, aided by our lax courts...and here is a glaring example of HIGH crimes by the highest offices in the land.
I , for one, think the likes of Emily et al either do not think or do not care. The crime is ok as long as it is THEIR criminal, the Liberal Party.
I hope that PM Harper takes the Liberal Party to court to recover the money stolen and yet to be accounted for. I hope people in the Liberal Party who formed government and WERE THERE , knew, abetted and assisted crimes of any nature as described by Ms. Fraser and others GO TO JAIL.
This more than anything else is what is needed to be done.
Emily et al need a serious reality check.
I am sure that if it were HER bank account, home or any other prized possession they stole , she would not be so zealous in her pathetic defenses. And that goes for the rest of the mindless rhetoric I see here and elsewhere.
We have a decent government in power now and the only thing I want to see is that they attain a majority government and govern rightly and well for a long time to come.
Seldom have I seen a more decent band of folks as those who comprise Government today. What a refreshing and heart lifting sight to see in the House of Commons.

agit,

You've changed the topic. Go back and read my post again.

The following is a cut and paste from another blog discussion on the fraud at the gun registry. It is attributed to Thomas Sowell.

"What purpose does the delay serve? The most obvious purpose is the same as the purpose that delay serves in confidence games.

After a fraud has been perpetrated and it is only a matter of time before the victim finds out, it can still make a big difference whether the victim finds out suddenly or slowly over an extended period of time. This is called "cooling out the mark."

If the mark (the victim) finds out suddenly and immediately, instant outrage may lead to a call to the police, who can then get hot on the trail of the con man.

However, if the realization of having been taken begins to emerge at first as a sense of puzzlement, then as a sneaking suspicion, and ultimately -- after a passage of some time -- as a clear conclusion that a fraud has taken place, then the emotional impact is not nearly as strong.

. . . If the truth about Bill Clinton and Monica Lewinsky had come out the very next day after he made that dramatic declaration -- "I did not have sex with that woman" -- it would have been far more of a shock than it was months later, after more and more bits and dabs of information came out, leading many to suspect the truth long before it all came out.

One of Clinton's press secretaries called these delaying tactics "telling the truth slowly."

Since I suggested it but haven't seen anyone do it, I did a Reality Check on CBC's Reality Check.

If you want to see what the 'progressives' got to see for 'information' with your tax dollars, head over to www.molarmauler.blogspot.com

It's long, apologies in advance.

agitfact,

You yourself mention the weakness in your own argument: Eves.

Harris was undefeated. He lead two straight majority governments in a province where the norm in the last several decades was single-term government.

Eves was unloved and untrusted by the base who deemed him unworthy of support. That is why he lost.

You will not understand this mindset as you are a liberal and so you would support your party regardless of merit. I am convinced that the liberals could run Attila the Hun and still vote for him. Conservatives punish their own when they deserve it in a way that liberals do not. This has meant that the Liberals have been in power far more than they should be (as morals and conscience are not weaknesses they possess.)

It was the small-c conservatives that brought the old PC party to 2 seats after Mulroney was seen to be a patronage machine instead of a conservative, not the liberals. Good conservatives don't support parties that do not live up to standards of behaviour the meet what conservatives will accept. Liberals don't have this problem - hence the reason they win more.

I won't call you and idiot for not recognizing the logic of my argument, just point out that standards are different in the two parties and therefore, your point is invalid.

My suggestion is to load all the Liberals and NDP wanks onto a plane and ship 'em to Afghanistan. Let 'em learn first had what's going on. With any luck a few of the idiots will get killed. Then we can claim we accomplished a number of worthwhile objectives:

1) Met our Kyoto Target by getting rid of all the bs and hot air the two generate.

2) Clean up the air in Ontario.

3. Provide the Taliban with some targets of opportunity and then the Canadian soldiers can find the b*****ds and shoot them.

Win!WIN! WIN! WIN!

It is AWESOME how most committed lefties AUTOMATICALLY attack cons when THEY are the ones on the hot seat(Pavlov's partisans perhaps?).Not ONE of them has shown the GUTS to admit the LPC has,now repeatedly,been caught and shamed.
Who can take ANYONE seriously that displays such a TRANSPARENT agenda.Ah,but please don't change,it is indeed this continued shameless denial that average Canadians FINALLY see and has us looking forward to a majority.

Canadian Sentinel,I admire your passion but lowering yourself to their level only muddies things,especially for those newbies trying to find their way in this political forest.Talk all you want about being superior to them,but for once try demonstrating it!Using ABSOLUTES and smearing ALL lefties just emulates what we detest about them and reduces the validity of all our claims,reducing any distance from their behavior we have managed to create!

I said it back when martin refused to step down way back in may? of last year, they should have been dragged out onto the front lawn of parliment and hung right then and there.

FREE,

Not a bad idea and one that needs expanding...

Daisy,

don't see the change of topic. You objected to my saying that the Harris Conservatives tried to save Ontario by running it into the ground. Yes, there were major deficits - as there were at the federal level - and yes, the Common Sense Revolution had to cut spending, but we are still living with unintended and uncorrected consequences in health, education and municipal downloading, for instance.

The voters saw what was happening and rejected the government's performance, not Ernie Eves' hairstyle. What measure would you use to call the Harris/Eves Government a success?

Warwick,

not everyone who doesn't like the taste of blue kool-aid is a Liberal. Personally, I have voted Conservative as often as I have voted Liberal, never at a party's call, always in the interest of good government, and too often in vain.

I do object to the mindset that sees the election of the Harper Government as the beginning of political history in Canada and its blessed end. We have had bags of political scandals and graft throughout our history and all parties, and I would be surprised not to see any in future. Politics is an activity that attracts the self-promoter, special-interest server, and power seeker, hardly the pure altruist who would resist the temptation to serve himself.

Agitfact,as I often find myself chiding those who speak with partisan blinders on(right or left),you do not seem to fit that template.
Where I see you often defending the leftists true record/agenda in this country,I have also noticed that you may then attack the next topic from a small c POV.Refreshing to witness on this site.I hope it is sincere.
Just curious,for someone who seems to enjoy this sport so well,why have you yet to choose a team?(LOL)

Agitfact, I agree with you that blind partisanship is not acceptable. I also agree that the Harper government will not be perfect. I guess I have fairly modest expectations. I am looking for a government that doesn't waste too much of my money, keeps most of its promises and for the most part doesn't treat the public as complete idiots. I would give bonus points for not stealing my money. So far the Harper government has greatly exceeded my expectations.

Canadian Observer, what you've witnessed above is something called "political combat".

Sometimes proving things to one's opponent is a futile undertaking, as they're hellbent on winning despite the fact that they don't deserve to. In such a case, if my side is to simply practice graciousness while they bomb us with devastating slanders, they'll win. And they did, four times in a row. We finally won by using effective combat tactics along with being honest and right and all that.

Me demonstrate? Hey, I'm not the PM. I'm just a guy with a computer...

bullwinkle, just got back on line to explain my latest faux pas, how can we expect to launch a class action suit when the liberals have seen to it that the SCC is weighed in their favour, as are most successful lawyers who have been feeding at the government trough lately. We'll be hard pressed to find someone like John Galt, mores the pity!

Heard from who? Jean Lambert, another canary singing.

Lambert feared for his life!!!!

In Canada. In the Liberal party.

His life at peril.

The tentacles? From where? The PMO.

The PM was Jean Chretien.

The Minister(bagman)of Finance was Paul Martin, Jr.

Who would dare snuff Lambert... in Canada?

High-power involvement.

Killers in Canada willing to snuff their own.

In Canada.

Influence of PMO everywhere: witness
MONTREAL (CP) - A former ad executive lived with a twisted trail of fake projects and phoney contracts because "great Canadian institutions" like the Prime Minister's Office of Jean Chretien were involved, Chuck Guite's fraud trial heard Wednesday.

Jean Lambert, a former vice-president of Groupaction Marketing Inc., testified the schemes grew more complicated through the 1990s and involved high-level civil servants, MPs, senior Quebec Liberals, cabinet ministers and senators.

"At the centre of all these tentacles was the PMO," Lambert testified.

But Lambert also said he did not go to police because he didn't have concrete proof of his suspicions.

"It was just an accumulation of what I was seeing going on in the agency where I worked, the closeness of my agency and others to the governing party, members of Parliament, ministers," Lambert said.

"It became evident, without having proof, that something was going on."

The dawning realization of high-power involvement over a number of years caused Lambert to fear for his life, he said, scaring him away from complaining to police. ... cnews

Remember the last couple of years of the Chretien government wherein the press regularly commented on Chretien's "legacy" initiatives? With all of the scandals that have been, and continue to be exposed, I suspect that history is not going to be kind to the little guy from Shawinigan...

Can.Sentinel,you should be intelligent enough to make them look like idiots,NOT call them idiots if you want to make a positive difference in this country.
BTW,stop chiding the rest of us to"not feed the trolls"when you lay out a buffet for them most every day.

Was anybody surprised that officials broke contracting rules on the gun registry as well as Adscam?
Now Madame Fraser's next audit is on the Billion dollar government relocation contract. She will report to Parliament on that one in November. Does anyone expect anything different about contracting rules in this next audit?
Hint # 1. The Federal Court of Appeal has already ruled that the competing bid was not properly evaluated.
Hint # 2. The competeing bid was $8.6 million LOWER than the winning bid.
Go Madame Fraser!

rusty,I commented yesterday that I am EXPECTING an inquiry.Surely Harper is just biding his time till he anounces one.If he does not pursue this it would be a major lapse in responsibility to all Canadians.

Canadian Sentinel: Your comments, please.

Does AdScam/Gun Registry have any parallels to Enron?
How does Gomery Report fit?
Where are the mug shots/rap sheets of the Librano$?

A Look at Those Involved in Enron Scandal
Houston Chronicle - 48 minutes ago
By The Associated Press. _Enron founder Kenneth Lay and former CEO Jeffrey Skilling. Trial began with jury selection Jan. 30. Skilling faces 28 charges, including fraud, conspiracy and insider trading, on charges ...
googlenews

Heard a caller on Rutherford this a.m. (Corus Edm.) who said something to the effect that his son-in-law worked for a computer firm and his and other co-workers hours were not booked to the gun registry project. So...perhaps another dead end for Fraser? Unreported expenses. Another point brought up was how many bureaucrats REFUSED to talk to her team or co-operate.

One last item; Edmonton Journal says this a.m. that this will tarnish (po0r, poor) Anne McLellans' image. Let's hope it will be further tarnished when she's behind bars with the other hear-no-evil, see-no-evil Liberal Monkeys and their flunkies.

Liberals, One has to admire your blind emotional faith, but now is the time for you to be reasonable and save your party.

Instead of this shameful scrambling of also-rans for the driver seat, this is your opportunity to select a decent number of your members who have brought such profound disgrace upon the liberal party and bar them outright.

Someone above suggested that the Chief Eletorial Officer should de-register the liberal party. As a criminal orgaization, and that could logically be done.

Far more honourable for your party to meet and select the members no longer welcome and thus demonstrate an effort to return to some level of integrity.

Until you make that jesture, the liberal future in Canada seems destined to fizzle out.

Terrible thing, as there will be no vote splitter for the National Dipstick Party unless the Greens make great strides. TG

Liberal lying is permeating all the way down to the "grassroots" that the still Liberal supporters keep speaking of. My wife took the kids down to a Hamilton-Centre Early Years playgroup. The workers asked her if she would sign a petition protesting the cancellation of the Liberal daycare program. She said no, not interested, and went about her business of playing with the kids. She was absolutely shocked by what happened next. Several immigrant, non-english speaking parents arrived with their children, and were asked by the staff to sign the petition. When they indicated they didn't understand several times, the staff told them they just needed to sign the paper. My wife stuck around for several hours, and was dismayed at how many signatures the staff were able to gather from people who had no idea what they were signing. The saddest part, of course, is that these are obviously stay-at-home parents who will benefit from PM Harper's $1200 per child solution, but will gain nothing from a national daycare program.

Cdn Observer: Well, I'm soooo sorry I've failed to impress you.

I didn't realize that I, a perfect nobody who merely likes to give his two cents and occasionally mix it up with pompous phonies on the left, am all that important to the Canadian Federation. I thought Mr. Harper was the important guy in this country. Why don't you watch him instead of me? I think he'll impress you more than I ever could.

Maz, I'll have to put some thought into any parallel between the Cdn corruption and the Enron affair. Haven't looked that closely at Enron... guess my own country needed my attention...

In the National Post today, Mr.Coyne used the F-word.

Fraud.
Fraud.
Fraud.

a number of apologists for the Liberal party, have tried to deflect this from the arguments.

but what I am not seeing in the arguments, are the reasons that the Liberals were intent, on not going to parliament to ask for more funding. Regardless of the idea of a gun registration being right or wrong, or whether the ineptness of the civil servants is called into question, the fact remains, the Liberals tried to evade this information from public scrutiny.
and this, is Fraud.

Fraud.

in Canada.

in the House of Parliament.

on the Liberal side.

with your tax dollars.

Fraud.

Mazz,

The biggest contrast between Enron and Adscam is that the perpetrators of Enron are going to jail for a long time and the liberals are getting away with it. Sure, one single person (outside of the party) is going to get a short sentance but the majority of the players and EVERY single liberal parliamentarian is getting off scott-free.

That's Da Canadian Values at work.

agitfact,

You claimed Harris drove Ontario into the ground. I presented the fact that it was the Liberals and the NDP that drove Ontario into the ground, almost bankrupting the province. Then you came back with declining Tory representation through 3 terms as a rebuttal. I said that was irrelevant to the topic that you brought up. Your last post still hasn't addressed your false accusation.

Pete,

I don't know if your wife remembers what special interest group these women represented, or who they should be reported to (perhaps they broke the law?) - but it sure would be great to make the abuse of immigrant women by Liberals into a media issue.

Can.Sentinel,no need for an apology.
I have long suspected you were a bcl or steve d in right-wing clothing.I still hope I am wrong.
The fact you do not hesitate to"slur"all lefties because of the deeds of a few is NO BETTER than those who slander ALL conservatives as racist or redneck.Can you really not see the hypocracy?
BTW,I did not intend to single you out as unique,you just seem the most prolific at it.

All I ask is you take more than 10 seconds to consider my point before you react to it.

Finally,re:your sarcasm.You make some intelligent remarks in some of your posts,you could just stand to eliminate the "broad-brushstroke"smears you take others to task for.
That way,the good points are not ignored in favor of reacting to your demeanor.

Cdn Observer,
You probably didn't see the press release that described how on 8 May 2006, Madame Fraser notified Shawn Murphy, Chair of the Federal Publics Accounts Committee that she would be auditing the government relocation program!

What about the NINE BILLION DOLLARS that disappeared into the, so called, Private Foundations?

Bruce:

The private foundations are being dealt with in the accountability act. Until it is passed, the AG has no jurisdiction to audit. The AA changes this. I see many years of audits showing how we were robbed of many billions more before we see the totality of liberal perfidity.

Just think of how much money the gov spent and how little we have to show for it. Billions in and nothing out. The money had to do something... for someone... somewhere - just not us for us.

Daisy,

I try again. After single-term NDP and Lib govts, the Cons (Harris) got a majority in 1995. Because of what they did in government, the voters reduced their majority in 1999, and threw them out of government entirely in 2003. They left government not because of what their NDP and Lib predecessors had done, but because the voters saw the effects of what they did themselves and rejected them.

There are more ways of running a province into the ground than by deficit financing. You can make health and education nearly inoperable, and download provincial responsibilities to municipal taxpayers, for instance. A Clitheroe or two doesn't help either.

Warwick, of course the money did something...it trickled back into the Liberal Party of Canada's coffers through donations. It hired people to do nothing, collect a government paycheck, and vote liberal come election time. It essentially bought a slew of advertising firms, which are very important when you're using propaganda and lies to coerce the public. It bought phony paper trails to mislead. It greased many a palm for many a favor. It was used to sell a house of lies to the public. It was used to ensure a return to power. It was used for everything it shouldn't have been used for, and nothing it should have.

More:... This chap is lucky he's alive to testify. ...

Lambert said: "the idea of having a hunting accident in my living room didn't interest me, either."

The dawning realization of high-power involvement over a number of years caused Lambert to fear for his life, he said, scaring him away from complaining to police.

Lambert said he feared that if he were wrong in his allegations, he would probably end up in a mental institution for spreading conspiracy theories.

"I was a speck of dust in this," he said. "If I was right, well, the idea of having a hunting accident in my living room didn't interest me, either."

Lambert's testimony came at Guite's trial on five counts of fraud related to his handling of more than $2 million in contracts funded by the federal sponsorship program from 1996 to 2000.

Guite, who is acting in his own defence, has frequently suggested political involvement in the contracting system. Lambert is the first witness to make the direct suggestion on his own.

Lambert said he first justified faking reports and making up contracts on the assumption highly placed federal officials knew what they were doing.

He said he assumed the scheme was intended to simply move money from one budget to another.

Under questioning by Guite, Lambert said Groupaction head Jean Brault and others in the agency provided political advice to Liberals. Lambert said he did not know how those unofficial advisers were paid. ...
http://www.voy.com/178771/13047.html

agitfact, the province of Ontario was already run into the ground by the previous governments when Harris took over. Harris ran on a platform known as the common-sense revolution. He told us exactly what he was going to do if elected, and he did it. He turned the finances of Ontario around and put us back on track to sustainable government. Some of the cuts were tough, but they were necessary. It also didn't help that the federal government cut health care transfers, causing even more financial woes for the provincial governments. My one big disappointment with the Harris government was the handling of Ontario Hydro. It is a money pit that needs to be completely overhauled. Ernie Eves is the reason I chose to stay home on election day, and I know a few other people who felt the same way. He just didn't come across as being honest and trustworthy, and it turns out he wasn't. In hindsight, however, I'd probably prefer Eves to McGuinty and his long list of lies. He signed the Ontario Taxpayer's Protection and Balanced Budget Act. He promised no new taxes. And then he won, and he raised taxes, he brought in new taxes, and he broke his oath to ensure the budget was balanced. Furthermore, he continues to run a deficit even though the economy has grown enough in the last two years of office to completely erase the surprise 5.6 billion deficit left to him by the former Eves government. He also rewrote the Balanced Budget Act to ensure that he and his ministers didn't suffer the prescribed pay cut penalties for running successive deficits. All the while he spouts off about the fiscal imbalance between Ottawa and Ontario. I didn't once hear Mike Harris try and blame his financial woes on the federal government. He dealt with what he had, and got the job done.

Canadian Observer,

thanks for your kind words of 2:30 PM. It is quite a change from the "moonbat," "lefty" or "idiot" I've gotten used to.

My "plague on both your houses" attitude is quite genuine. It is my experience that party policies and election platforms are irrelevant in practice, and that the scope for doing good or ill during any mandate is limited by factors of reality. Paul from Vancouver has pretty well summarized what I would expect from government. I would reduce it even further to "govern for the good of the country, not the party." This is so darned commonplace that I haven't seen it in 40 years of voting. Unlike Paul, though, I think it too early to praise Harper.

Can't join any team in this sport because I see no reason to tie myself to any one party or leader for more than an electoral period. After discarding propaganda, all I realistically expect to be able to do is change the pigs at the public trough periodically, since so far it has not been possible to change their behaviour at the trough.
That way the Libs or anyone else wouldn't get 13 years to make themselves fat, dumb and happy in power.

And thank you for your attempts to rein in Sentinel. The guy is a loose cannon on your team.

Rusty -- I look forward to the inquiry into the relocation scam. However I seem to recall it was mostly in small amounts (under $25,000) which I think might make things more difficult to find. I hope Sheila and her department have a lot of time and patience. Wasn't this little Scotty's department?

At least Andrew Coyne is able to tell the difference between incompetence and outright CRIMINAL behavior. (The rest of us will have to depend on a 'justice system' that was appointed and run, by the criminals.)

Morrison,
The contract I'm referring to is megabucks.
Madame Fraser won't have any trouble following any trail, especially with the help that been volunteered by some members of the public.

Turn in a Civil Servant Week

If any of your neighbours- this should be huge in the Ottawa valley - seems to have spent an inordinate amount of time at a 5 star resort on a "sabbatical" then it was likely stolen from the taxpayer.

I've noticed a few comments asking if there was anything we could do as citizens and taxpayers regarding the LPC and their criminal activities. Can we the people launch a "class action" suit against the LPC in regard to certain incidents? Just as any citizen can sue Revenue Canada for NOT doing it's best for the citizens (winning is another matter), can't something similar be done to sue the LPC? Any lawyers in the house have a comment or idea along these lines? Perhaps a lawyer wanting to make a point or work for cost and the good of the country? Just curious.

I wonder if the same lefties who were all bent out of shape about Enron calling for the heads of the ruthless exploiters in the corporate boardrooms are now going to get as bent out of shape about this and the ruthless exploiters in the Liberal Party of Canada. I won't hold my breath.

"Since this latest scandal involving the liberals has pointed out the potential criminality that the LPC has foisted upon the Canadian taxpayer, is there anyway of launching a class action suit for any of the following, grand theft, larceny, fraud, misappropriation of funds, libel, criminal intent, organized crime, or a combination of the above? Any comments welcome, feel free to add additional charges.

Posted by: Antenor at May 17, 2006 11:39 AM"

Well, perhaps we could start here:

http://www.taxpayer.com/main/index.php

I wouldn't expect any results in my lifetime however. Our systems are too corrupt at the top
to achieve any meaningful results for these sorts of crimes.

In addition, Canadians in general are wimps when it comes to standing up to officialdom's malfeasance and bullying. Can't say as I really blame them though - since most of us are just one paycheck short of insolvency. Who the hell has any money left to chip in for a class-action that would likely drag on for decades, and simply make a lot more lawyers a lot more wealthy?

Can anyone tell me as breifly as possible, how the hand-gun registry compares to the long-gun registry? The costs, the reliability (by police), the secure handling of info, how many registered owners there are, etc.? I'm still shaking my head. Have my suspicions as to where the money ACTUALLY went... Who looks after the hand gun registry? Has the G.G. ever done an audit on it?

The registry needs to be scrapped and those responsible for this mess tried convicted and have their heads displayed on a pike as a reminder that stealing from the tax payer has consequences.

For those whining for a national day care program I ask. What makes you thing the Liberals would have handled a national day care program any differently that the gun registry? It appears clear to me from adscam, HRDC, the gun registry, questionable real estate deals, Shawinigate,Dingwall ect that the Liberals can't be trusted to run something as simple as a one man band with our graft,fraud,and lies.

Parliament was totally defrauded...on costs...on need....on intent and social benefit of the Liberal's gun control regime, and if there were any justice left those political elites who hijacked both the agenda and the funding for the project..those divine few and thei lobbyist lap dogs who feel they are above the law, should either make fiscal restitution to the public or be indicted and incarcerated.

This line::-

**Today, Sheila Fraser revealed that information was insufficient for a reason - the Liberals were cooking the books;**

Forgive me, but I laughed out loud. This is great Black Humour as in under a cloud.

And this::-

**The former Liberal government hid more than $60 million in unexpected costs from Parliament, left no written record of important decisions taken by officials, *and may have broken numerous contracting rules* in its handling of the controversial gun registry, Auditor General Sheila Fraser has found.**

Did anyone think to look into those fileboxes in Guite*s basement? - in Dingwall*s, or even in *the Rock*s* basement? How about a check into those black office file boxes we saw Conrad Black loading into his limo on television?

Why was Mega$ Mill$ Conrad loading those boxes? Does it seem odd to you that he was doing that personally?

Usually hired hands do the heavy moving for Royal Pomposities like Black.

Shouldn*t Elizabeth take away *the Royal Daltons* or whatever the hell titles he bought as a penalty for hand-bombing boxes into the limo in the alleyway?

Conrad, what happened to all that *class*? TG

Gone by the way similar to Enron?

TG re: Did anyone think to look into those fileboxes in Guite*s basement? - in Dingwall*s, or even in *the Rock*s* basement? How about a check into those black office file boxes we saw Conrad Black loading into his limo on television?"

Tony, really now. Don't you realize that our finest are far too busy harrassing/arresting sick people for smoking pot, and same goes with our farmers who try to sell wheat or eggs outside of the government monoliths? They don't have the time or resources to deal with ongoing, decades old multibillion dollar thefts/boondoggles by our illustrious librano ex-government. Case closed.

Annie can't get yer guns...... Get Annie. ...

Liberal minister's role in gun registry decisions under scrutiny

Jim Brown
Canadian Press

Thursday, May 18, 2006

OTTAWA (CP) - Former public safety minister Anne McLellan was told about a possible cost overrun in the federal long-gun registry in early 2004, but it's unclear whether she played a role in a subsequent strategy to hide the spending, a parliamentary committee was told Thursday.

"The written record is very scant," said Peter Kasurak, an official in Auditor General Sheila Fraser's office. He said it's clear McLellan was "alerted" to the fact that the Canada Firearms Centre was facing unforeseen computer costs that might push its budget over the limit provided for in government spending estimates.

The centre initially proposed to seek supplementary spending authority from Parliament to cover the costs.

Instead, senior bureaucrats eventually decided on another solution - moving $21.8 million in computer development costs to the following fiscal year.

That decision was cited by Fraser, in a report released this week, as an example of how the former Liberal government "misinformed" Parliament about the gun registry's true costs. ...
http://www.paulding.net/bin/url.cgi/13287.2

Well we can preach to the choir or get out and do something. I will put my name on any petition or complaint that will get these thieves held accountable. Anyone know where to start?

Wally:

https://secure.lexi.net/ctf/petitions.php?petition_id=22

or the main site:

http://www.taxpayer.com/main/index.php

Good luck.

BIG LIE: BQ BIG LIARS.

5,000 per day is now 6,500 per day.

BIG LIE from BQ BIG LIARS.

BQ is BLOC QUEBECOIS, aka BIG LIARS....

Notice the usual sophistical use of the words, "as everyone knows": typical socialist/communist verbal gymnastics by the socialist BQ.

Ms. Monique Guay (Rivière-du-Nord, BQ): Mr. Speaker, the registry helps saves lives, and that is what matters.

Police forces consult the registry over 6,500 times a day, and they were the first to say that the registry is an essential tool for ensuring public safety.

The minister says he wants to improve safety on city streets, so why is he so dead set against a registry that, as everyone knows, helps meet this goal?

M. Jason Kenney (secrétaire parlementaire du premier ministre, PCC): Mr. Speaker, this government's priority is to protect our fellow citizens against crime, against violent crime, and against gun related crime.

The point of our public safety policy is not really to go after duck hunters who use long guns. That is why, instead of spending $1 billion on this registry, we will introduce a real policy against crimes committed with guns, especially handguns.. Hansard via newsbeat1.com