Very sad and true. So much potential mired in so much mediocrity. Sk reminds me of what one of my professors once wrote me: "talent without industry brings nothing but disappointment." Sk ruled by dippers yields nothing but dependance and small-mindedness, and envy and poverty.

Tilting at windmills I'm afraid.

The socialist mindset is one in which reality never intrudes.

When they're policies fail and harm people, they say that the problem is that there isn't enough of it, that more needs to be spent on the failed programs. It's never the programs themselves that get plamed but lack of more and more and more of other people's money.

They see anyone that gets ahead as a thief. If you work hard and build up a net worth you're looked upon as a parasite but if you sit on your backside and do nothing you're a victim.

The socialist is a social vermin. A plague to be destroyed.

I don't have much to criticize about his letter except the knock at larger school divisions. Saskatchewan has had *way* too many school boards for the number of students we have. The bigger the school divisions are, the better in my opinion.

socialism . . what's yours is mine because some of us, with our higher standards of moral certitude, are more equal then the the rest of you.

when will you get with it ??

OK, so how do we change things? Is there any hope?

MOOSE JAVIN never vote in another NDP government until "Hell Freezes Over" would be a good start.

This might have helped?
http://www.canada.com/reginaleaderpost/news/story.html?id=faabbbe4-4f5f-4a34-ac0f-aea75c276eed&k=28596

I'm one of those ex-Saskatchewanians who left to Alberta for lack of opportunity in my home province. We've recently considered moving back to Sask, but can't quite stomach the idea because to do so would likely require a complete career change, and I don't see the opportunities in Sask as I do in Calgary (or any other place out here).

As for the comment about too many school boards - if the rural population wasn't greying and thinning so much, more, but smaller, school boards would make much more sense. Decentralized is better, IMHO.

What a bunch of pathetic crap - I am sick of corporate welfare and agricultural welfare. My tax dollars are still paying for the GRIP program of the 1980's and I sure as hell am sick of paying for guys like this!

Saskatchewan has what 3% of Canada's population - 40% of the farmers. Why should my tax dollars subsidize the rest of Canada? Harper needs to address this and start matching the amount of money that the USA subsidizes its farmers. Quit whinning about Calvert - that is a smokescreen - Harper MUST pay!!!

This is a fantastic letter and puts everything in a nutshell. Many farmers are no longer willing to be away from their families for extended periods of time to feed the increasingly varocious socialist machine in Regina(10,800 more civil servants in the past 5 years). The demand for labour is Alberta is snowballing with these high oil prices therefore people with a work ethic and the skills aquired by growing up and running a farm are in great demand in the oil industry. Many people in this province are making the decision to cut their losses and run. They are thinking of their children. They don't want to see their children carry an increasingly odious tax burden. It is also difficult to continue to work in an industry that seem to comand so much contempt from the people in power and their supporters. The non NDP in this province have to get together and eliminate the socialist disease before it kill the patient. Socialism is a systemic disease. The crumbling roads, health care system, education system ect... are just sympoms of an underlying disease.

Thank you Kate for giving the people of Saskatchewan a voice. If too many people find out about this tool the socialist might take away our high speed internet. There is always satelite internet if that happens.

My wife and I vowed we would leave BC if the NDP had won the next election. I got out, knocked on doors and volunteered with my local candidate.

We won, BC won and we never had to move.
Get at it.
enough

Nonsense - total nonsense. Grant Devine's criminal government (and you remember WHO used to work for him) destroyed Saskatchewan with all of the debt (14 Billion$$ - mostly as welfare to farmers). So if we are lacking things TODAY in this province just remember we are still paying for all of the freebie money that went to farmers in the 1980's! This right wing nutbar revisionism is a joke!!

The winds of change are quietly changing the direction of SK's politics and its economy. If I had the money I would be buying land in the Saskatoon/Regina Corridor as well as other areas (around Lloyd' and Estevan for example). Ten years from now things will be very, very different in SK and for the better.

Like every male in this province, I have had to go to work in Alberta from time to time in order to survive. I have to say that I have always found the Saskatchewan people are hired first, often without much of an interview or background check. We have a good reputation from being hard workers; with the natural resources in Saskatchewan and an abundance of good workers, this province should be the richest in the land. Tommy Douglas, or as I call him "The Prairie Nazi" is still holding us back.

Speaking of landowner/farmer injustice, our favorite statist twinkie Dolton McSquinty continues his snivelling, depraved, vindictive war against Ontario's farm/property owner's revolution by having Randy Hillier arrested today for...get this....trespassing on government property...is this even rational?

When a tax payer is arrested for using the public venues he pays for to express dissent to laws being formulated there to directly damage him, we have to stop emoting detached loathing of this machiavellian crap and gang up on the statist thugs who want to bully us individually. No matter what you feel about his arguments, if you allow Hillier to be arrested for exercising a charter guaranteed right to express dissent, what is to stop them from gooning you over when you put up a protest after they damage you? The only difference between Randy Hillier and the vast apathetic wasteland out there is Randy has been damaged directly and decided to protest the fact....your turn will come....and the longer you snooze in the lazyboy as this goes on, the faster your turn will come.

Attack one of us you attack us all.

Get your facts straight, Leftdog...the $14 billion debt accumulated by the Devine Gov't was primarily the result of two factors -

1) Gov't taking on the debt of the Crown corporations that accumulated by the NDP government that preceded them (the figures are $6-$8 billion) and,

2) High interest rates through the 80s. Do you know you much interest is earned annually on $6-$8 billion of debt when interest rates are in the range of 12%-15%? Try $720 million - $1 billion each year. It's kinda hard to pay down a debt that large when your interest payments are that high.

I moved to Saskatchewan from BC in 2000. I saw how an NDP government sank a thriving BC economy in the 90s and have seen how things have turned around in BC since the NDP were driven out of office. I return to BC every year to visit family and it is night and day from when the NDP were in power to what is happening now.

I really believe in the Law of the Harvest, which is basically “You reap what you sow”. The fruits of socialism are mediocrity and underachievement…and as long as the people of this province choose a government that is rooted in socialist dogma they will continue to be left to eat of the fruits of what an NDP government sows.

"Why should my tax dollars subsidize the rest of Canada? Harper needs to address this and start matching the amount of money that the USA subsidizes its farmers."

Dude I don't know what you are smoking but the US does not subsidize its farmers like Canada does. The problem you have is the taxes are too high. Plain and simple! I know because my Father was an Albertan farmer, how about yours?

JTH - what a COMPLETE and TOTAL lie - Go to your library and get a copy of the Gass Commission Report on the Devine govenment - $6 - 8 billion debt from the Crowns is a COMPLETE fabrication on the part of the Saskatchewan Party! Your fabrications are 'Zundlesque' in their scope. Devine had 9 Deficit budgets!! - Blakenely balanced 12 consecutive budgets!! GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT!!

S. Baker said, "the US does not subsidize its farmers like Canada does." HUH? HUH? Are you mad? The Americain farmer is subsidized into the Billions! What are you sniffing??

The 80's seems to have been an unfortunate era of deficits: 10 years ago, AB had more debt than SK; however, AB addressed their problems, SK did not. In fact, leftdog, your dipper friends in Regina are increasing teh debt, relying on money from a "fiscal stabilization fund" that has no money in it. So debt increases, the population shrinks, more civil servants are hired: such are times under the NDP in what should an era of growth and prosperity. It is wasted potential. But at least residential utility rates are cheap! Come to Saskatchewam, the cheapest place in Canada! Forget about the high crime raets, the poor medicare system, the hollowed-out population: Calvert will keep you comfortably poor!
And you dippers need scapegoats: blame Devine, the guy that left 15 years ago, blame farmers, blame businesspeople for not paying high enough wages!!!

LeftDog,

"Zundelesque"? Really? And what part is Zundel-esque? It is my understanding that the PC Government of the 80's took on part of the debt of the Crowns that they intended to privatize. Is this not true? It is my understanding that often a government planning to privatize a public operation will take on part or all of the debt of the public organization that they are planning to privatize.(i.e. the BC Gov't absorbed the $1 billion of debt belonging to BC Ferries before it was privatized)

It is also my understanding that the debt that the PC Government took over from the Crown's was to the tune of $6-$8 billion...is this not true? If I am misinformed, then I would appreciate being corrected.

I also do not assume to defend the actions of the Devine PC party of the 80's. From what I understand, the 80's PC Government provided a lot of lessons in what NOT to do in government...especially when it comes to mismanagement, waste, and fraudulent activities.

What I am saying is that not all of the debt left by the PC government can be attributed to them...no matter how bad a job they did. The province was not debt free when the PCs came into power...Crown Debt is still public debt and there was a significant amount of Crown debt at the end of the Blakeny years. This is something that seems to escape the attention of those who are faithful to this provinces "natural governing party".

Saskatchewan and Manitoba have some of the highest crime rates in the country.

Actually Canada is unique in the industrialized world as having a higher crime rate in the rural areas than in the cities.
Why?
I'll "reserve" my comment.

This poor farmer is right and the NDP is ruining our province. We could be richer than Alberta and in a much bigger boom but we aren't and the difference has been the provincial governments. I will never in my life vote NDP even if they paid me $100,000 to do so. In addition, I love how our provincial government run by Mr. Calvert complains that the feds ought to pay money to the farmers. Well, the feds have given us some money (not enough to be sure) but in an oil boom where provincial coffers are at an all-time high level, they certainly aren't giving us any money - they are spending it on increasing the civil service (their favourite activity). Why should the feds put a bunch of money into Sask. farmer's pockets when their own provincial government, who are supposedly rolling in the dough, won't give us a cent? This government is intent on destroying the rural areas - whatever that takes.

LMK you need a class in economics rather than the pathetic little coffee shop you frequent to get your twisted rightwing crap. The USA and the European nations SUBSIDISE their farmers to the tune of BILLIONS$$ Why do you think the price of commodities is so low?
So listen - Sasakatchewan has 3% of Canada's population (97% live OUTSIDE of Sask).. BUT 40% of Canada's farmers are IN SASKATCHEWAN. Is it fair of all you right wing ideologues here at small dead animals to INSIST that 3% of Canada's people subsidize 40% of Canada's farmers?
You see this is all about hurting this province anyway that you can so that Brad Wall (remember old free booze Wall) can win election. Shame on all of you for your lies and your ignorance).

LMK - since it was Devine who wanted to SELL the crowns (which is why Hermanson was defeated as well) the old PC Party maxed out every credit card and line of credit that the crowns had AND then pulled it into general revenue debt. The Progressive Conservative Party of Saskatchewan (that's who Brad Wall worked for) STRATEGICALLY BANKRUPT THE PROVINCE OF SASKATCEHWAN TO TRY AND JUSTIFY THE SALE OF THE CROWNS. They failed. We are all STILL paying. So after the PC's turned themselves into the Saskatchewan Party (I call it the Tories under the witness protection program) ((haha)) Hermanson tried to hoodwink us all that we wasn't going to sell the crowns (HA!) but then he couldn't keep his mouth shut and he told a reporter, "Well why wouldn;t we sell the crowns) AND HE GOT HIS ASS WHIPPED!!. So rave on all of you right wing nut bars. You and your Sask Party Buddies will go down again because you all lie so much that when you get caught (as you ALWAYS do) the people abandon you because of your lack of trust.

Leftdog, you have a very bad attitude.

Also, SK has 40% or the farm land, not 40% of the farmers.

I think that you dippers are using agriculture as a wedge issue: you will do anything, tell any lie, in order to retain your hold on power, and to try and maintain your base in urban areas and on reserves, regardless of teh fact that your divisive and hateful policies are destroying SK.

No it is you rightwing extremists who will say ANYTHING to try and win power so that the Sask party MLA's can start the gravy train and all the free booze can start flowing again. It is you rightwingers who use agriculture as the wedge issue!

I lived and worked in Saskatoon from 1979 to 1990.I worked all over the province with Saskatoon being my home base.The first time that i went back to Saskatoon was 12 years after i left (it had eveything to do with Devines leadership or lack of it)and it was like going back in time.It seemed to me that nothing had changed.I shook my head..what a waste of talent,and its leaving at a steady rate to day as it was in 1990.

1. The US subsidizes farmers as do all of the OECD countries. (Why do you think there is a hopelessly uneconomic Biodiesel plant in North Dakota?)

When the implied subsidy of Supply Management the equates to $15 billion per year to the Eggs poultry and dairy sectors (using those industry's numbers) is added in, Canadian producers are the most highly subsidized - on a product-valued basis - farmers in the western world - including the EU.

The difference in Canada is that the vast majority of the subsidy only goes to the abovementioned sectors leaving the Cattle, Hog and Grain sectors at a comparative disadvantage against the US et al.

It is not coincidental that these highly subsidized sectors are primarily located in Quebec and Ontario.

2. Recently Tommy Douglas has been heralded as "The Greatest Canadian".

He isn't even the greatest Premier.

That title belongs to Ernest Manning while second place probably should go to W.A.C. Bennett.

AB and SK had very similar resource potentials and comparable societal potentials with which to exploit them. AB got Manning, SK got Tommy. Who left their province better off and more successful today?

I'd like to point out leftdog, that farmers make up only 5% of population in sask....

Secondly I agree fully that farmers should not be subsidized. But so long as they are in other countries (to the tune of 50% of their income in some places) I will never survive without some help. I for some reason cannot vote for the policys in other countries.

Thirdly, I do pay my taxes same as you. But somehow, despite the $22-27,000 I send to our governments each year, hospitals, schools, and most infrastructure development seems to go toward more populated areas while I drive on roads that I have to slow down on with a 4WD Tractor.

I live in the one of the most highly taxed provinces in a country that is already highly taxed in comparison with its close neighbours.

So tell you what. You go ask Calvert and Martin (Harper is doing a bit already but more is welcome) to give me back MY money instead of subsidizing their view of how big and fat the civil service and public unions should be.

And me I'll stop asking for the government to offer me a little help to compete because of their lack of action on the international stage.

(For reference: $2B in federal money always seems to get whittled down to $2k for my farm when I get it,.... that's almost as much as my taxes... right??)

leftdog

Me thinks thou doest protest too much!

A favorite tactic of the left.

Shout everybody down who doesn't agree with you.

Keep those rose-coloured glasses on.

Farmers here in Sask are on par with farmers in Alberta. In fact Farmers from Alberta want to buy land here it's more cost effective. Also why is Alberta's heritage fund only 14 billion? Has someone been dipping into it? It seems pretty small. Farmers here and in Alberta make a good living. How good no one will say. I think all us voters would be rally suprised if we knew.

speaking of rose coloured glasses....

ok4ua. Producers like my farm make some money. Some years are much better than others, some years are bad.

Most are more than sufficient to live on and the good years we expand the business -- like any other businessman would.

The problem with taking my (family) farm as the example is that it is far far larger than the 1200 acre average. Those are the ones that are prennially hurting.

Year after year I watch as my friends and neighbours sell out and move on to places they can earn wage rather than running the farm. It's not that they are poor managers (many of them are far smarter than me). Its that they are too small to compete with larger farms who can realize savings in bulk purchases and efficient use of machinery. Many don't have the equipment to do the job properly or efficiently, and they are unlikely to have the resources to replace with newer equipment. Nor, if they could replace it is their farm large enough to support teh size and maintence cost of large equipment. (a new combine requires 2800 acres or it is cheaper to get someone else in to do it)

Every quarter used to contain enough profitibility to support a family. Unless you find a niche like vegatables, organic, or some local small production local market then 2/3-3/4 of producers are too small to survive in current economic conditions.

We still identify our land by that origional owner. Not just a way of telling people where to take the equipment, but a rememberance of the past.

And beyond that a gesture of respect to those who came before and toiled in the fields for their family and their friends and neighbours.

So what is the significance of this letter? Other than the usual, tired, unsubstansiated belly- aching, the guy essentially blames everyone else for the choices he made. "French students get $12,000.00 and we get $538.00" What's that about?
So, despite all the subsidies, he couldn't make it farming. So what. Businesses fail every day. People lose their jobs every day. People do what they gotta do every day to earn their crust, including being away from their families. Suck it up. I mean the guy lives in Rocanville. Potash has been BOOMING for the last decade. What's his problem?
JTH... your understanding is wrong and you have been misinformed.
When Devine took power SK was debt free. Crown debt stood at $3.3 billion, but that debt was self-sustaining. All or most corporations have debt, Crown corporations are no different.
After 9 straight deficits, while provincial assets were being sold off at fire sale prices, SK debt was $14 billion, while the remaining assets value put us in the hole to the tune of $3.4 billion. We were bankrupt.
We are still reaping what the last "free enterprise" goverment sowed. And the Sask. Party is singing from that same right-wing songbook. Very scary.

maryjane, there is a solution to your anger about support for the farm industry.

Stop eating.

No Kate, the solution is to stop subsidizing. I have already stopped eating beef,canola, canaryseed,flax,hemp,dental floss,and oats to name a few commodities. I've even stopped consuming barley in it's liquid form. But the farm subsidy bite out of my paycheck just keeps on growing. Nope, eating's got nothing to do with it.

Here's another Saskatchewan economic refugee. I live in Sk., but haven't worked there for ten years.
The greed of the socialists has destroyed Saskatchewan. Saskatchewan has a huge potential, but as long as the old Tommy Douglas crowd are running the show, the potential is worth nothing.
They want something for nothing, and they want to punish anyone who is willing to work or make sacrifices to get ahead.
How else do you explain job losses in Saskatchewan during an oil boom?
Democracy is finished there. As long as the NDP can keep hiring more voters with our money, Saskatchewan will always be in the economic garbage can.

"Why should the french students get over $12,000 per student and we get $538??? This is stupid."

What is this all about?

Sounds like the only crop that maryjane likes is his namesake, the kind of harvest that is smoked. Nothing mj says stands up to scrutiny, certainly not the fact that s/he saves his/her ire only for ag subsidies, and not for any other government spending, not the fact that the prov debt is still increasing and pop decreasing in times of plenty (if that isn't scary, what is, mj?) and potash is booming (capitalized!) wow. so we can be drawers of water and hewers of wood. thanks NDP for making the least of our blessings.

I am not sure I understand the problem even.

maryjane claims subsidizing is the problem, not the buying.

She lists a few (one which she cannot possibly be sure of since it is used in the making or as an ingredient in nearly everything... unless the food is pure and unprocessed) commodities that have subsidies.... but only ones that are a fraction of the subsidies.

As to the problem. It all seems to come down to economics and the exchange of money. Stuff has a basic value, "the cost what it can be produced for".

When subsidies (or other incentives) are created they increase supply thus dropping the price. You would pay less for food. Take the subsidies away, less is produced and demand takes over. You now pay more for food.

It seems to me that the price isn't going to be much different whether you are paying full price for the food, or 2/3 of the price and then 1/3 more in taxes....

Supply management works different. The subsidy is built into the price in the store. The government and the taxpayer is thus absolved of paying a subsidy since the the consumer is billed for it at the store level.

Other things maryjane that you may want to consider doing without... being subsidized here in Saskatchewan and all:.... Lumber to build your house (and of course paper), flying, Power, Car insurance, Casino's, buses (espically STC), Ethanol (which is a sham anyway), almost every rec complex outside the city, energuide stuff, Telephone.

And these espically: Medicare, Education. Definately stay away from those.

Peter,
I believe he is talking about French immersion students. When our sons were in school, the school that they attended received a very large subsidy for every Frech immersion student attending. I cannot say if it was $12,000, but it was considerably more than the regular student population. This subsidy was provided by the federal government who has been promoting "both official languages" across Canada. I do not know if this subsidy was shared by the province or not. My understanding was that it was federal money but it may have been shared. Someone out there may have a more complete answer but this is my understanding and probably what the author of the letter is referring to.
Daniel

OK, I've had about enough of the whole "Blame Devine" tactics Maryjane, ok4ua and other dippers around this province keep using. These people like to use Devine as a scapegoat to gloss over their own party's brutal ideology.

My question to these NDP cronies who come onto SDA and keep blaming a government that went out of power some 15 years ago for the province's woes is this:

What political party has been running the wildly successful show in Alberta for the past 30 years?

I'd give you dippers three guesses for a quarter but unfortunately Calvert & Co. have taxed me on it so I only have a dime left.

And, please...just answer the above question in one word (HINT: it starts with a "C"). With my dime, I'll gladly bet that the dippers that answer this cannot resist using more than one word.

For all you dippers :Don't you have dipper blog where you could spew you venom and hatred.I guess you'll have to get the Goverment working on that. Just imagine how much money they could spend setting up and maintaining it

On the subsidy front visit
http://www.ncpa.org/pd/budget/pd122099f.html

This show how little Canad Subsidies the Canadian farmer compared to the USA and the EU.

The total agriculture subsidy for all of Canada was 3 Billion. The total payroll for 120,000 civil servants using a conservative wage of 40,000.00/year is about 5 Billion.

The number speak for themselves.

Christ, I'm glad I left that province when I did. I think about "runnin' back to Saskatoon" every now and then. I visit this blog and it reminds me why I left.

Hint: it starts with a "C"

No it don't, PO, it starts with an "S", as in Social Credit, and it started nigh on 70 years ago. For all his faults, and he sure had some, Bible Bill laid a solid foundation upon which to build a successful province.

'Social Credit theory' died with Aberhart, and the youngest, longest serving and most successful first minister in the British Commonwealth, E. C. Manning, was Socred in name only, in policy he could hardly be called substantively different than your run of the mill conservative. Our education system, highways, resource development, and more are all products of the Aberhart-Manning years, (the self-reliant attitude and belief that hard work should be rewarded have always been here.)

Lougheed and the PC's, (whose name, incidently, starts with "P"), merely built on the Socreds foundation.

OT, did you know that Ralph Klein and Ernest Manning have both won every election for which they have ever ran? Alberta has been very blessed to have had both of these men serve her.

Barcs... Explain how the following are subsisized: phone, power, car insurance (although farmers insurance is subsidized), lumber, flying.

sick...$3 billion is the fed's 60% share. The provinces kick in another $2 billion on top of that, and let's not forget that Harper put another $1.5 billion into the trough in gratitude for rural electoral support. And that's not counting preferential tax treatment and yearly ad hoc payments etc. So yeah, the numbers speak but you got to have the numbers.
SK has something like 45% of cultivated acreage and 25% of farmers and 3% of the population and that is what I am concerned about. If EU and US subsidies make the case for subsidies, then let the Federal government pick up the full cost. Taking money out of my pocket and giving it to the guy down the road is not only egregious, it's also a false economy.
As far as civil servants making $40 grand plus, so what, police, nurses. teachers, our armed forces should work for nothing.

We published this letter from who I suspect is the same Rocanville farmer in our central Alberta newspaper in March. He enclosed some graphs from the Western Producer that give you an idea as to who is really is subsidizing the agricultural industry in this country- the farmers.

Sorry, link didn't work. Here it is again.

http://albertafile.blogspot.com/2006_03_01_albertafile_archive.html

Socialism, socialism --
All winds down . . .

The last broke farmer to leave Sask. should shoot that angry, rabid little animal named leftdog. And then piss on the grave of Tommy Douglas.

Bible Bill was crazy that's for sure. He paid families 25.00 a month. It was a time when Alberta didn't have much money. I don't think the gov't of Alberta is very fiscal. How come there is only 14 billion in the heritage fund? Where did the money go? This is after 50 years of oil wealth.......I think you live in a dream world Alberta. Yes you have the lowest income tax but you have the most oil. Where did the billions go? How much went to private hands. Has there ever been an audit? Are your Tories as crooked as ours were? I think that your heritage fund is a load of crap. It's been wasted for over 50 years. If Sask gets a good resource deal we will surpass you in surpluses. I hope the SaskaTory Party doesn't get in because they'll blow any surplus we have. Also Mr.Farmer sell the Farm and get on with your life. Get a job and pay off your debts with the money.

Alright, I nominate ok4ua as being the dumbest of the dumbest to have ever graced this province. Sounds to me like a dipper who's worried he may lose his job after the next election.

By the way, ok4ua, after almost 50 years of oil wealth in SK, not to mention uranium, natural gas and all the other abundant gifts handed to us, where the hell is our Heritage Fund?

Oh, sorry, forgot. That extra oil windfall was invested in the bogus "rainy day line of credit that doesn't actually have cash in it but it sounds good to Joe Q. Public so we'll go with it" fund. Speaking of that fund, has it topped $15 billion yet? No? Then stop talking trash and do something about our debt...like, maybe you and the other 10,000 or so "new-hires" that kissed ass all the way to the legislature should quit their jobs and join us in the real world.

While you're at it, stop throwing stones at glass houses. Farmers are 10x harder working than you bunch of latte-swilling hind tit suckers in Regina. Do you know what a 60 hour week is or is it something that you read about in NDP Fiction class during orientation week?

Wow, so much hatred! First off there a large number of misconceptions, although one poster pointed it out. Yes Canada, your government does support farmers (along with others) through direct and indirect subsidies. Ever wonder why a grain farmer has to sell their grain to the wheat board? Blame it on the U.S. because you are too afraid to fix the problem yourselves, that would require weaning yourself off the government teat!

It's not called farming anymore, it's called agri-business.

Like any other business when a product has reached maturity in it's life cycle other products have to be brought on stream to replace the ones that no longer make money.

Agri-businesspeople that do well today understand this concept and thrive as a result of it. Farmers that continue along old well worn paths are doomed.

Romantic notions will always get you in trouble in business. Adapt or perish!

All you farmers are are is an excuse for the SaskParty to keep us devided. If you believe the Tory philosophy of every man for himself except if that man is good to get some votes. The SaskaTory party pitches us against each other to get votes. Don't blame the Gov't. The SaskaTory party doesn't even try to get labours vote. That tells me something. It's the SaskaTory party that keeps the love/hate relationship going in rural Sask.

ok4ua, SK needs a healthy farm sector, it is an integral part of the diversified SK economy. I believe that SK needs some business-friendly policies, expecially after the business-hostile NDP (and thanks for the recent tax cuts, better late than never) and that this will also be good for labour (like it is in AB). Otherwise, I don't understand where you are coming from. I ahve accused the NDP of using ag. as a wedge issue, and you seem to ahve picked-up on my theme, ut wiothout providing any logical context.

Reverend Devine started this division not the NDP. The SaskaTory party says the NDP don't like farmers. How long have I lived in Sask? Over 50 years and the NDP have always kissassed the farmers. The difference is the Tories paid farmers more in drought money than they made farming. Is that really a good thing? How long would that have gone on? We as a province were broke because of the cash gifts to everyone. The SaskaTory party have said they would do the same.
All I ever see on TV is the SaskaTory party dragging some terminal patient in the legislature or telling how the NDP don't like farmers. Who the hell do you think brought in all the farm programs in the last 50 years in Canada? Not the Tories.

My father-in-law is pretty much in the same sinking boat as the 45 yr old Rocanville farmer except a couple of decades older. He too is hoping to sell out to someone out of province with money since not many younger Saskatchewanians have much interest investing their lives & savings in the land themselves. Modern farming has become a hopeless dead end and the current "urbanized" provincial government sat back as the disaster unfolded in their laps over the last 15 years.

I fear that conditions are so bad right now (land values, input costs, commodity prices, market access, interest rates, aging demographics, increasing tax burden, decreasing services) that we are past the point of no return in having any ability to save Saskatchewan's family farms. A terrible legacy that will forever attach itself to the NDP.

Umm maryjane,.. how much do you pay for such items?

The power company doesn't pay me for the poles that go across my land like the oil company does. Which means I am subsidizing it along with the government which runs the system.

Flying is easy, or don't you remember the government bailouts of Boeing and Air Canada.

In as much as gas the government runs it to and built the network (we were able to get gas pipe to our farm despite the evil nasty devine government, while in the benevolant Rommano years burying the 1500' of powerline in our yard would have cost upwards of $10,000)

And lumber. Even while most NAFTA Rulings went Canada's way, many of the WTO rulings stated that we did subsidize to a certain extent.

Governments often use grants and tax incentives to encourage business. Money in = decreased cost of production = lower price, aka. subsidization.

Healthcare and education are still my favorite tho. We pay almost nothing at the wicket. It is nearly all subsidized by tax dollars.

----
ok4ua, you seem to be delusional. The NDP and farmers have long standing disagreements. Not saying Devine improved our lot either, but remind me again what support the dips have given farmers that hasn't had to be ripped out from underneath them? Not the wheatboard, not GRIP (which never was a good program), not NISA, they were draged kicking and screaming into CAISP, they gutted the useful portions of crop insurance in the last 5 years.

But that's just a few of the bad portions. They have ofcourse lauded great praise upon us and showered us with extravagant gifts. Thats obviously why the NDP holds only rural seats and no city seats.

Farming is like a lot of jobs when you start out. It takes awhile before you make any money. That's why a lot of farmers have off the farm jobs. I know lots of civil servants that have farms. I don't blame your dad for selling. He's ready to retire. Everybody including myself have had to settle for a lot less. Whether it be raises in pay or less for grains. I don't think we should abandon agriculture but I think it's up to Ottawa to help out. All of Canada eats our food not just in the prairies. And in Europe and the US the federal gov'ts help out not individual provinces or states. That's too costly. The province does help out farmers and don't try to let on they don't. But it should on a need basis per farmer. Not universal. Some producers don't need help and the ones that do should have to show they do. It's almost like walfare. If you have lots of assets you can't get walfare. A lot of farmers don't want to show this. If I apply for unemployment I have to show I have worked in the last year. I've never been on UI or welfare and I've worked 30 years in my present occupation.

ok4ua, 30 yrs, serving the people, no doubt! thanks for all the empathy, now please STFU!

I completely disagree ok4ua.

You help people based on need. You should never help business based on need.

You can give businesses incentives to setup or setup in an area and create wealth for people. You can ocassionally offer help to businesses which are struggling due to (temporary) conditions they cannot control. [ex. natural disasters, temporary loss of markets (BSE), or short spikes in business inputs]

Supporting businesses based on welfare principles creates welfare businesses. Why? When you give someone something over and over they eventually figure out the conditions where they can recreate the gift (not just welfare, buying a car from a dealership which will give you an amazing deal is the same. You will go there for the deal instead of the cometition)

While I understand that people can be permantly disabled, disadvantaged, etc. A business under the same conditions should be closed in favour of a more efficient model.

Though a knee jerk tearful reaction says you should help those at the bottom, that is an incorrect course of action. Rather aid should be given to larger and more efficient business models. A single section producer with 30 year old equipment will almost certainly never be able to replace their equipment with modern technology and gain enough land to become competitive.

Aid, when offered should be offered to those with business models efficient enough and with economies of scale such that they are on the edge of making it.

Buisnesses do create wealth for people. Go work at Walmart for awhile. Buisness creates wealth for themselves. Farmers are 8% of or GNP. Peoples wages contribute more. Helping farmers helps farmers and hardly anyone else but their families. You right wingers had better wake up and smell the roses. I've worked in both public and private jobs. Public pays better. And it does in Alberta too. I've heard it all for 50 years. Same shit different bowl.

I don't know much about walmart. Sobey's tho. My rommate went to work there last year. Being a hardworking individual (ie. not a union hack) he started just above minimum wage. Today, not a year and a half later he is a store manager and is paid as such. If you are perpectually on the bottom of the pay scale then it is because of your actions, your attitude and your work ethic.

"Buisness creates wealth for themselves. Farmers are 8% of or GNP. Peoples wages contribute more."

The first part that catches my eye is 1% of persons, who are struggling to make a living no less, are 8% of Canada's National production. I don't know if I am elated or scared to death.

next stupid question.... how do you get wages for people without a business to employ them.

Wait, we can all work for the government. It will pay all our wages, and we in turn can pay all of its. The Soviet Union does this and we can see today how far ahead of us poor poor capitalists in everything they do.

As for farms not creating any wealth except for the farmers.

Oi, do you live under a rock?? (or just in a government office)??

My farm employs 2 full time seasonal personnel. (and at nowhere near minimum wage, you get what you pay for in employees.) We also pay several part time employees for varying hours. This ranges from neighbours, to neighbours kids, to my little cousins. They do a good job and they are well paid for their labours. (This adds up to nearly $50k into the community from my "family" farm)

On any given year we spend thousands in rent on several quarters. They are rented from persons no longer farming, or from persons that just wanted to have an investment in land and stay working in town.

But wait, that is not all. I spend hundreds of thousands on stuff from town. Equipment, chemicals, fertilizers, oil. My neighbours do too. Those several businesses we purchase our inputs from in town comprise another 30-35 employed persons that my dollars affect (just in my small town).

But wait where do they get stuff to sell me?? Hundreds of businesses and each one with employees manufacture those products. (And are no doubt paid to do so.)

But wait, my farm and all these other businesses are completely unnecessary. The government will empoly all of us (somehow) and pay for our every want right here in happyland. Bullcrap.

ok4ua works for the government, has for some 30 years, collects his wage and his pension, and then complains about all the hard-working stiffs out there trying to get by, about how unfair it all is, etc....
It is all about envy for ok4ua, and envy has been the bane of Saskatchewan since Tomy Douglas. Envy keeps us mediocre. Thanks alot, ok4ua, nice legacy.

Would someone over here (the one who always talks to the Sask party all the time) and tell them that the name of their party (and the province)is spelled:
S-A-S-K-A-T-C-H-E-W-A-N.

Oh and while you have them on the phone, remind them that they are trying to achieve:
G-O-V-E-R-N-M-E-N-T (not 'goverment')

Welcome to the era of News Talk Radio where 'uninformed opinion' is just as valid as 'informed opinion'

Not everyone can be a boss. Some of us peasants have to do the grunt work. I worked 12 mos of the year 8 to 9 hrs a day on average with no OT. I did this for 35 years. It was a job someone had to do. Still do. Most people that actually work or their kids who have jobs are wondering when will it end. A billion dollars doesn't buy what it used to. My son got offered a management job with Walmart. He was 20 years old. He said he didn't want to kick workers around because that's what their managers do. There are 10 times more workers than bosses. Someone has to do the grunt work. He told me there were lots of farm kids working there who thought 8.00 an hr was OK. I guess their parents kicked in the difference.

What am I jealous of? I wish I was born into farm money. A guy I know told me city people don't pay their fare share of taxes. The told I make too much money as a silly servant. This is after his dad gave him 75,000.00 to start a buisness which failed. A realative of his got a resterant which dad bought. It failed. He got 10,000.00 to do his house siding,5000.00 for a new kitchen,5000.00 for a new roof, a new deck and air coditioner. Guess what poor old dad does..........he farms. You guys think the rest of us can spend money like that? You farm boys want it all. You always had it and still want it. You live a very sheltered priveleged life.

Go to a provincial and look around you at the 5th wheels. Over 75% are farmers. Go whine somewhere else.

"Go to a provincial and look around you at the 5th wheels. Over 75% are farmers. Go whine somewhere else."

That doesn't even make sense. Summer is when we do the work. Not leave the quiet country to go to the quiet park. If/when I decide to camp out I can do it in one of several abandoned farmyards on the land I own. And not have to deal with noisy neighbours.

"Not everyone can be a boss." Espically when years of service count more than an actual willingness to do the job. I watched my rommate pull several 70 hour work weeks in a row simply because of the lack of ethics in the staff. People would just skip days without even phoning. This from the same benevolent union on strike months before for better wages... Many don't deserve them.

The fact that your son rose to the level where he could manage a walmart is proof that awarding jobs, and more espically wages based on merit and work ethic works.

1) In regards to Leftdog, STFU please!!! It's fairly easy to misspell words now and then. In case you missed it during his leadership bid, Lucky Lorne's troops didn't do much better and by the end of the night he was known as Lorne "Clavert". I have a friend in the newspaper business who has said the paper contains something for everyone and typos are included for the ones who get bent out of shape over a misplaced comma or a missing letter. I guess you are the person he was describing to me.

2) ok4ua says his son worked all those hours without overtime and had an opportunity to climb the ladder to a management position but didn't want to kick around employees like other managers do. This is typical dipper personality. ok4ua jr. must enjoy being at the bottom where he can be kicked around. Given the circumstances, if I had someone working for me who needed to be kicked around, he or she wouldn't be working for me for very long. I'm sure the managers at Wal-Mart don't "kick around" employees for the sheer fun of it...it's counterproductive and totally against any sane businessperson's philosophy! If there are Wal-Marters being booted in the ass it's likely they need it. ok4ua jr. sounds like he's taking up the socialist lifestyle rather well and would rather just toil in mediocrity all his life and spend his free time bitching about his job and eating Doritos. One suggestion for ok4ua sr. and jr....if you don't feel appreciated or think you are overworked and underpaid, FIND A NEW PLACE TO WORK! God knows, apparently we have some 11,000 unfilled jobs in this province. Let me know ok4ua where in the labour legislation it reads "must remain employed at Wal-Mart or face imprisonment".

3) Barcs...you make a lot of sense. I have many friends and relatives that farm and I don't see many of them towing a 5th wheel to the provincial parks for the weekend during seeding/spraying or harvest season. If anything, they MIGHT take a day or two in the dog days of summer and head for the lake for some rest and relaxation. My brother-in-law lost his dad in 2005 and farmed not only his land but also his dad's in 2005 (and has seeded it all again this year) and, in the end, fired up his boat for a grand total of 5 hours all summer. BTW, he also works full-time off-farm from October to March so don't even go there.

4) Leftdog wrote: Welcome to the era of News Talk Radio where 'uninformed opinion' is just as valid as 'informed opinion'
------------------> If this is the case, what time can we catch your talk show Leftie?

Only farmers can afford 5th wheels. My son no longer works at walmart he works at a good job in the private sector. Socialist has nothing to do with it. Some of you were lucky to be born into a farm family a lot more of us weren't. That's the way it goes.

Here in SK, most of our ancestors were born into farm families. Times have changed: now, most SK children are born into civil servant's families (such as ok4ua) or welfare. And most farms kids are fortunate to learn the value of hard work and honesty, and they leave the farms and make it big in (non-socialist) AB.

Three cheers to Bushman...he knows it!

To ok4ua...I've never lived on a farm or spent more than 3 days on one but I do know from my experience in dealing with farm families that they are some of the hardest working people I know. I wish I could say the same for my civil servant neighbour who spends every other Friday morning in his driveway polishing the tires on his boat trailer and washing his 5th wheel as he prepares for yet another long weekend at the lake.

You wish you could be so fortunate to have been born into a farm family? I think there's a few thousand of those families who would gladly swap places and take your cushy dipper job...and every second Friday off that goes with it! You're the one who should be counting his blessings and not bitching about farmers being a drag on the economy!!!

I don't get Fridays off at all. And farmers don't work nearly as hard as they used to. That's a falicy that farmers do all the hard work. Not anymore. Just remember this my taxes pay for your deductions. Remember that there are a lot more working people that farmers. Don't deny me my piece of the pie. You may have to change your lifestyle to reflect the times. Your grandfathers started it,your dad's built it and the kids blow it. That's about right isn't it.

You remind me of the Southern Faith Healers I watched on TV as a kid. Send us money or my pisser will rust shut or I won't be able to go to Arizona or buy my kids new cars. You never see farm brats in old cars. I drive a 13 year old truck and my wife drives a 13 year old car. The cost of living high is expensive Mr.Farmer.

13 years old? almost brand new.

my last vehicle (which is still used as a farm truck) is an 86 (that's 20 years old) Toyota with nealry 300,000 kilometers on it.

My current truck, for the last year now, is a 98 (8 years old) 3/4 ton with a 6.5 diesel engine and a trailer package (160,000k). But oops, no 5th wheel travelaire. It instead pulls a tandem 5th wheel with my water tank on it out to the field. It pulls the same with bales during haying season. I have a couple other trailers around the year to general purpose haul stuff.

I could drive a tiny car, or another old toyota... but neither would pull my equipment.

The fact is farmers don't have shiny newer trucks because they go to the beach. We have newer vehicles because the old ones get worn out. Just like any tool.

You must have cattle that's changes things. Cattle and dairy farmers work very hard. I'm talking about the grain farmers. My cousin's had a dairy farm and it was a 24 hr a day job. They had a hired man 12 mos of the year. They made good money but they worked very hard for it.

nope.

Grains oilseeds and pulses.

1 month ofr 4 of us to seed, 1.5 for the same to harvest and the rest spent fixing, repairing, yard maintence, hauling grain (4 months of 10 hour days 7 days a week for a single guy), spraying (3 weeks of 10 hr days for a single guy)

Finished seeding last night. Hauling grain today since the elevator opened. They are closed for the next 2 days at 5:00pm today so I am gonna spend some time tonight and tommorow cleaning the bottoms of bins into trucks. (yeah I was shoveling this morning to get it full, omg.) Monday I will bring the sprayer into the yard and spend a day fixing all the quick repairs needed to get the last week done. Tuesday and Wednesday hauling grain. Thursday is back on the sprayer. Air seeders will hopefully be fixed up and put away by the end of the next week by the hired hands (inbetween rock picking).

Course that might all get hijacked by the inch of rain we are supposed to get tonight :) (yippee). In that case repairs and shopwork get moved up, and other stuff waits a couple days.

This summer includes 2 weeks of work for 2 guys cleaning up a couple old fencelines, knocking over a tree row (another week), fixing irrigation pipe, putting up a few bins (a couple more weeks).

All in all I probably don't work as hard as my grandfather does. But then again, neither does an office worker in the city work as hard as grandpa. So maybe comparing me to him isn't right. Kinda like saying teachers don't do any work for 4 months. They do... just like me.

I work hard too but the returns aren't as good. I'll never be rich or have assets I can sell except my house. Working people don't get rich.

In other words, maybe trying to make it in the business world instead of just being a wage earner, tho a risk might not be so bad.

Long term average returns on agriculture is about 2-3%. Some years are better than others.

2 to 3% return????!!!!!!!Something doesn't jive. My farm friends work at a job,farm and combine their incomes , do their taxes and come up with negative income for tax purposes. I wish I could do that. You do better than that. My realatives do. I think you're not on the level. If I get 2 to 3% return I'd sell the farm and bank my money and get a job. I have not seen or heard one honest comment about farm income for 30 years. It's always a loss. I find that hard to believe. My farms friends sure spend like they have money.

that's the point isn't it.

The average return on the stock market for someone doing well is 8-10%. Sometimes you make 30%. Sometimes you lose 30%.

You really need to talk to an accountant if you are goind to talk about profit and loss in a business.

Covering variable costs and covering fixed costs are very different. My guess is that your friends that declare a loss every year cover their variable costs (fert, fuel, etc, etc) but do not cover fixed costs such as buildings and such. As such they would have a positive income and money to spend as buildings and equipment deterioate past the point where they sould be replaced.

If that is the case and the current economic environment does not change. Your friends will not be farming in 10-15 years. And they will join my friends neighbours as they leave the farm with the same problem.

I can't say for 100% sure that all farmers are making money but some are. We can't save them all that's for sure. But I don't believe the province should go in debt trying to. My wife and I do alright in our jobs. We do budget though. We don't go too far in debt. We do our own yard work,house repairs and I repair what I can on our vehicles. It saves us some money.

We're all civil servants. If the gov't gives the farmers a billion dollars how does that make us different? There's a fine line to be crossed here.

How much is that per farmer? Some farmers are better money mangers than others. Just like working stiffs.

How much is that per farmer? Some farmers are better money managers than others. Just like working stiffs.

Farmers and labour fall into 3 categories,private or public. 1/3 are good,1/3 are fair, 1/3 are no good. I've worked for farmers,private buisness and public service.

The only people who think union workers are overpaid are underpaid non union voters. We have to take care of our native people. We can't ignore them. This is not Nazi Germany where you get rid of anyone we don't like. Some of you bloggers are alot like little Hitlers. You're so far right you're left. You made a complete circle.
We have to educate people. That's the only way to get them out of the ghetto.

So back when I was 18 and working for $13/hr from PSAC and moved to $15 doing sales....

Absolutely agree with your 1/3, 1/3, 1/3 though. The percentages slide up and down depending on market conditions. But you are absolutely right. Some people are very good mangagers, business operators, workers. And there is the bottom precentage of managers, business operators, workers who will never do a good job, no matter the help given. It is an unfortunate reality.