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May 10, 2006

Bob Rae: "Bush is a Nazi"

Jeff Jedras was at the Liberal Party of Canada convention in Toronto;

"Rae compared Neville Chamberlain and the Munich Pact/appeasement of Nazi Germany with Stephen Harper’s surrender to Bush on softwood."

Now, don't expect any brouhaha in the media over this. There's a difference between comparing the leader of our largest trading partner to Adolf Hitler, and say - a Conservative MP alluding to Supreme Court Justices as "playing God". That difference is, of course, that Bob Rae is running for the Liberal leadership.

h/t Maz2 in the comments.

A reader emailed to advise that he's phoned Rae's office and was told they plan to issue a press release on this. Kinsella has Rae in his crosshairs, too.

Posted by Kate at May 10, 2006 10:38 AM
Comments

Kinsella has this as well.

Just for the record, I'm encouraging all Conservative minded people to buy Liberal memberships and vote for Rae. The thought of him as Liberal leader excites me in a way that nothing ever could. (Make of that what you will)

Posted by: Trev at May 10, 2006 10:56 AM

now that's a plan . . . conservatives working to elect Bob Rae.

Sweeeeeeeeeeet :)

Posted by: Fred at May 10, 2006 11:12 AM

Trev: May moi ask a question? Where does one get a membership? From whom? Does Guilte have an e-mail address? Maybe it's: sponsorsipadscam@Chretien/Martin.mamateresas:attGagFile:GumDingwall registrybangbang.

MONTREAL (CP) - A retired Justice Department official responsible for approving advertising was astonished to discover a lucrative contract promoting the gun registry went out with Chuck Guite's approval instead of her own, Guite's fraud trial heard Tuesday.

Wendy Sailman, who was in charge of department advertising in the mid-1990s, testified she launched a search for a $330,000 research contract to promote the gun registry after a reporter asked about it.

When Sailman failed to find the contract, she contacted Public Works, where Guite was in charge of advertising. via cnews

Posted by: maz2 at May 10, 2006 11:13 AM

And we should perhaps compare the current interim Liberal leader Bill Graham calls for debate on Afghanistan, to that of Ribbentrop making a non-aggression pact with Stalin?

Well I'm glad they have all got their moral metrics in perspective!!

Posted by: Hans Rupprecht at May 10, 2006 11:13 AM

The fine ideological line between the NDP and Libs is very fuzzy and actually merges occasionally when the issue is attitude towards the US. The NDP are simply the Libs in fast forward. With any kind of union of these parties their core support will ensure that Canada will resume the slide into a national socialist nightmare. Bob Rae is dangerous.

Here's the dilemma: if a "righward leaning" candidate assumes the Liberal leadership, he can keep that relationship cool and split the left vote but may also suceed in pulling "left-leaning" Conservatives away from Harper.

The solution might be for all good Westerners to get behind Hedy Fry as the Liberals historically do very poorly under a Westerner - they have difficulty hiding their Toronto-based contempt for the unwashed. She won't pull support from any party and the country will benefit under a Harper majority after the next election.

Posted by: John Chittick at May 10, 2006 11:28 AM

Buy Liberal membership and vote for Rae.

The final blow to the head of the beast. Brilliant idea. I'm going to pass this on.

Posted by: Irwin Daisy at May 10, 2006 11:30 AM

Finally. The HIDDEN agenda is revealed! ;)

Posted by: JackM at May 10, 2006 12:10 PM

I thought it is Osama bin laden talking about Bush until I saw "Bob Rae" thingy there.

Whatever.... I see no difference though

Posted by: Winston at May 10, 2006 12:19 PM

Jedras provides a commentary on all the Liberal candidates - and does indeed state that Bob Rae compared Harper's settlement of the softwood deal with the US as a Chamberlain Munich style settlement with Hitler. That's outrageous but as Kate points out, we aren't going to hear about this Hitler Metaphor on our Canadian MSM.

The Canadian MSM is engaged in an open war against Harper. Consider that there are TWO hour long shows, each day, which are effectively Liberal propaganda tirades against Harper. There's CTV's Mike Duffy and the CBC's Don Newman. Both bring in their 'pundits' - the Jane Tabers, and whoever..and it's relentless, hour long anti-Harper comments.

My comments on the Liberal candidates -using only the brief data supplied by Jedras:

Hedy Fry said that 'multiculturalism is 'our secret weapon of mass inclusion'. So cute. So stupid. Multiculturalism isn't about inclusion. It's about exclusion. It locks people into groups, rejects them as individuals, and defines the groups as clones of 100 years ago - in the 'old country'. It rejects assimilation and adaptation and cooperative development of a new modern identity in Canada.

Ignatieff - pontificates on the usual - Canadian values (what the heck are they - and how do they differ from the basic values of most other western nations???) And on..to social equality, financial management, national unity- all core values of any western society.
Then - he defines the Liberals as 'the party of equality of opportunity'. Hah. Never. Not with bilingualism as the entrance requirement for working in the gov't.

Oh - and Ignatieff also refers to 'clean coal'. My goodness - I'll bet the MSM won't say a word about this. He's copying George Bush! That individual whom Rae defines as Hitler!!!

"During his campaign for the Presidency, George W. Bush pledged to commit $2 billion over 10 years to advance clean coal technology - a pledge he has subsequently carried out in the National Energy Policy and in budget requests to Congress."
http://www.fossil.energy.gov/programs/powersystems/cleancoal/

I am, however, very concerned about the MSM's open war on Harper.
I think that blogs have to be more organized to counter this...

Posted by: ET at May 10, 2006 12:33 PM

ET: "I think that blogs have to be more organized......."
Count me in.

Posted by: Lee at May 10, 2006 12:42 PM

I guess Bob Rae has not heard of Godwin's Law (also Godwin's Rule of Nazi Analogies).

From Wikipedia ... "Godwin's Law (also Godwin's Rule of Nazi Analogies) is, in Internet culture, an adage originated in 1990 by Mike Godwin that states:
As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1.

There is a tradition in many Usenet newsgroups that once such a comparison is made the thread in which the comment was posted is finished and whoever mentioned the Nazis has automatically lost whatever debate was in progress."

I especially like the last part: " ... whoever mentioned the Nazis has automatically lost whatever debate was in progress."

Posted by: Gabby in QC at May 10, 2006 12:53 PM

"I think that blogs have to be more organized to counter this..."

Excellent concept, and probably the only way to pry the leftist MSM's deadly propaganda out of many Canadian minds. Good start would be to scrap the CRTC and the CBC, and stop buying the Toronto Star (Pravda).

Posted by: Hank at May 10, 2006 1:26 PM

Hey ----- its CBCpravda and CTVtass

Posted by: cal2 at May 10, 2006 1:36 PM

Over the years I have found that any analogy to the Nazis, Hitler, Chamberlain etc usually indicate that the person making the analogy has a very weak argument. The reference to Hitler etc. is usually made in order to try to hide that weakness. Bob Rae's comparison of the softwood deal to Chamberlain's pact with Hitler follows this pattern. I also find such references offensive as they trivialize the magnitude of the crimes committed by Hitler and the Nazis. Bob is so far showing good credentials in his application for the job as Liberal leader: intellectual laziness, heavy on the hyperbole and a lack of moral integrity.

Posted by: Paul from Vancouver at May 10, 2006 1:43 PM

Did Bob "spend his way out of a recession" Rae actually say how he would have dealt with the, ahem, log jam?

Some lumber variation on Rae Days, perhaps?

Regardless, I want this man to win. If he can't do it, I want Hedy. And if she can't do it, I want Carolyn Parrish in there!

Posted by: Mississauga Matt at May 10, 2006 1:59 PM

So, World War IV is over lumber and not a clash between Islam and Western Judaeo-Christian civilization?

Okay, where's the Kool-aid line?

/blind Lieberal

Posted by: Doug at May 10, 2006 2:14 PM

How did moi get here? Easy....

Linked at nealenews.com

H/T Warren Kinsella is not an ibrano$.

(Boycott Bourque)

Posted by: maz2 at May 10, 2006 2:15 PM

For what it's worth, the point of the analogy - which didn't go over very well with the crowd - was that, like the Munich Pact, this is a bad deal that won't bring peace on the softwood lumber front. Hitler illegally invaded Czech and the Munich Pact gave it the stamp of approval. The US stole $5B and we just said 'it's OK why don't you keep $1B for all the trouble we've caused you'.

The analogy was over the top but that was clearly the point he was making. He didn't compare Harper and Bush to Hitler and Chamberlain. As for Liberals supporting that: the very site Kate links to makes a critique of it and you've got another her. It went over like a lead balloon in the conference hall.

Sorry to interrupt the daily media/Liberal rant. Carry on now as you were.

Ted
Cerberus

Posted by: Ted at May 10, 2006 2:24 PM

I heard him say this on Question Period last Sunday. Any body got a copy out there?

Posted by: Cool Blue at May 10, 2006 3:50 PM

Here's my contribution to Bob's Online Campaign :D

http://www.thecomputergeeks.ca/BLOG/?p=1049

Posted by: Les Mackenzie at May 10, 2006 3:58 PM

Back in the days when Bob Rae was burying Ontario in debt, I recall Barbara Amiel in her then regular Toronto Sun Column astutely refer to Rae as a "crypto-communist."
Only his party name has changed, ND to Lib.
Same old Bob. Ready to take Canada down another socialist rabbit hole.

Posted by: Joe Molnar at May 10, 2006 4:02 PM

millions of people dead in WW2 compares with a trade deal on softwood lumber? .... and their only real dislike of this deal is "the liberals didn't get it"?

what balls.!

Posted by: marc in calgary at May 10, 2006 4:36 PM

Three psychiatrists- even dead ones- could make a fortune off Bob Rae type liberals.

That fortune would be made opting out of the healthcare system.

Prominent Liberals prefer private healthcare, anyway.

Posted by: sigmund, carl and alfred at May 10, 2006 4:38 PM

Osama Bob Rae? Think it could stick? How I pray to Allah that the Liberals are dumb enough to appoint this PowerCorp stooge. Ontario is still trying to recover from his lunacy.

Posted by: Ontario WASP at May 10, 2006 4:51 PM

Speaking about his tenure as Ont. Bob said yes he made some mistakes. Fine Bob, we all do. But who paid for your mistakes? The province and the country. Bob seems to be doing OK. He brought about the "horor/Hitler" that was Mike Harris, though Harris was the one to bring Ont. out of the duldrums.

All I want from Bob is to lead the Liberal Party in a resounding chorus of "We're in the Same Boat Now".

BTW the Liberals are angry, Stephen Harper angry. One might say MAD.

Posted by: jason at May 10, 2006 5:02 PM

It wasn't just Rae.

See Bill Graham's comments.

Posted by: The Tiger in Exile at May 10, 2006 5:05 PM

Bob Rae, the failed NDP premier of Ontario, now wants to run the Liberals. I thought the Libs might try to clean up their rotten reputation.

Posted by: Heidibichon at May 10, 2006 5:26 PM

Tiger, did you email that link to Kinsella?
I'd love to see Bill mentioned in the Kinsella's next NP column as well.

Posted by: molarmauler at May 10, 2006 5:33 PM

ET at May 10, 2006 12:33 PM said: "Multiculturalism isn't about inclusion. It's about exclusion. It locks people into groups, rejects them as individuals, and defines the groups as clones of 100 years ago - in the 'old country'. It rejects assimilation and adaptation and cooperative development of a new modern identity in Canada."

As a naturalized Canadian who holds the same view, I applaud you for that. And so well said.

But then you go and spoil it all by saying " ... equality of opportunity'. Hah. Never. Not with bilingualism as the entrance requirement for working in the gov't."

Just when I was growing rather fond of your postings ... oh, well life's full of little letdowns ...

Posted by: Gabby in QC at May 10, 2006 5:55 PM

I just watched Duffy and not only did Duffy and Craig Oliver dismiss the Rae incident, they went over the top as far as I am concerned with Velacott. Duffy's remarks were about social conservatives who support Vellacott and he said and I quote loosely, where are they from the Christian Heritage Party?? To Duffy's mind I guess if you are againt abortion, SSM, or you think the Supremes are activists, that makes you a right winger on the fringe.
If anyone else watched Duffy feel free to tell me if I read it wrong.


Posted by: MikeP at May 10, 2006 6:12 PM

Cerberus/Ted - you are quite wrong. The US did not 'steal' 5 billion. It didn't steal anything.

Canada's low stumpage fees amount to a subsidy and therefore, an unfair capacity to provide lower softwood lumber than the American forestry industry can. Their lumber is, like that of the Maritimes, harvested from PRIVATELY owned land. But, in BC etc - the lumber is harvested from PUBLIC lands, and the gov't charges only a low fee, which amounts to, in effect, a subsidy. That's not equality.

The US gov't therefore had every right to charge a tariff on subsidized incoming lumber.

Now - you can go back to your usual anti-American rant.

Posted by: ET at May 10, 2006 6:12 PM

gabby in QC - ah, it is indeed a sad day. Sorry to disapoint you. What do I miss about Montreal? Ogilvy's (notice the apostrophe); just Ogilvy's.

Canada is not a bilingual country, and forcing it to be what it is not - a practice carried out most extensively in socialist, communist, fascist, ie totalitarian social modes - is a grave error.
You only learn a second, third etc language if you use it in actual daily life. Many Canadians speak another or more languages - but it certainly isn't French. It may be Chinese, Ukrainian, Polish and etc.

Forcing the citizens of a country to learn that language which they never, ever, use in their daily life - OR - they cannot be key members of the gov't, cannot be deputy ministers, cannot be reviewers of all Canadian research grants, cannot be heads of the public corporations..That's discrimination.

What it does, is it sets up a small, closed, self-defining set of mandarins, a bureaucratic class defined and confined to itself. That's what has happened over the generation since bilingualism was made official. Among anglophones, less than 10% are bilingual. Among francophones, it's an economic necessity, and about 40% are bilingual. This is not going to change; it's been one generation.

The result is - that the federal government has moved more and more into the control of a closed and isolate set of bureaucrats, confined to the Montreal-Ottawa corridor. That's dangerous in any country - whether your elite are a landed gentry as in 17th c Europe, or theocrats as in Iran, or a particular tribe as in old Iraq.

Posted by: ET at May 10, 2006 6:19 PM

Mike, you didnt read it wrong.
I made myself a promise today to never watch that show again.
My blood pressure wont take it.

Posted by: Lee at May 10, 2006 6:25 PM

Rae's website says to call him Bob.

OK, Bob.

Bob, meet Ward Churchill & his "little Eichmanns".

Bob, how would your late father, Saul Rae, respond to your smear? With shame? Approval?

Bob Rae, it is best you resign. You have fouled your self. Resign, Bob, for the good of the Liberal party. Resign, Bob.


FrontPage magazine.com :: The Ward Churchill Money Trail by Joel ...
To the casual observer, now-infamous University of Colorado professor Ward Churchill—who labeled 9/11 victims “little Eichmanns”—would seem little more than ...
www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=17062 - 55k - 8 May 2006

Posted by: maz2 at May 10, 2006 6:28 PM

Mr Kinsella said he could write a book about it,but in the meantime wanted this little bitty to spread like the mutating Gene of a fruit ,thanks, fly

May 10, 2006 - I now have confirmation from more than a dozen people who were present at the LPC(O) leadership forum in Toronto last Friday: Bob Rae did, in fact, liken the softwood lumber agreement to the Hitler-Chamberlain Munich Pact. Which certainly suggests Rae analogizes Harper and Bush, jointly and severally, to Hitler and Chamberlain.

I'd ask his campaign who Rae regards as Hitler, in that scenario, if they got back to me. Which they did not.

This is so bloody depressing. And it's reason #3,451 why a lot of us aren't so involved with the Liberal Party of Canada anymore
http://www.voy.com/178771/

Posted by: maz2 at May 10, 2006 6:34 PM

sarge here.well when yer boy gives mr bush and his pals yer tar sands and lets us strip mine yer northern terratories(after yer ice caps melt) you could stiill use the hitler/chamberlain anology but sarge thinks it will be more apt to compare old bush and cheney to hitler when y'all so no, and we takes it anyway. yup youy betcha, canada is our bitch. thanks fer makin' it easy.

Posted by: sarge at May 10, 2006 7:40 PM

Sarge
How right you are. Canada is America's bitch. Pick your commodity and third world countries have better deals than Canada has settled for. But you know we don't like people, especially Americans, to be angry at us so we bend over backwards to please. Liberals through the backdoor and Conservatives through the front door, but the result is the same. Canadians believe that the Neville Chamberlain solution (Appeasement)regarding America is best. Peace in our time with America.

Posted by: steve d. at May 10, 2006 7:57 PM

If we were America's b*tch, wouldn't we bend over forward?

Posted by: Chris from Victoria, BC at May 10, 2006 8:03 PM

Call-me-Bob says: I am Aunty-American. I am a socialist. Buzz and me are buddies, eh, Buzt?

Buzz answers: CAW.....


Call-me-Bob says:

"Having worked on the softwood file for the past several years as a lawyer, I understand the extent to which the American industry and political system have worked against the interests of our producers here in Canada."
bobrae.cia

Posted by: maz2 at May 10, 2006 8:34 PM

It seems the Lib friendly MSM refuses to take any of the LPC leadership contenders to task for their ridiculous remarks, or for that matter to even report these remarks.

In light of this gap in media coverage I am proposing nominations to recognize the LPC leadership canidate's efforts in sublime stupidity.

Therefore I have instituted The 2006 Liberal Leadership Canidates Award for Excellence in Hysterical Hyperbole.

Carolyn Bennett is the first nominee for her brilliant assertation that a lack of universal childcare will ultimately equate to a burgeoning prison population in the future. Well done Carolyn.

Of course Bob Rae now qualifies with his unique and highly creative analogy equating Neville Chamberlain's Munich Pact agreement with Hitler to the recent resolution of the softwood lumber dispute. Kudos Bob on being the first canidate to make a Nazi reference regarding PM Harper!!! I'm sure the other canidates are envious!!

As the LPC leadership race heats up I look forward to numerous other contenders emerging to stake their claim to this coveted honour.

Go Heddy!!!!!


Syncro

Posted by: Syncrodox at May 10, 2006 8:38 PM

It seems the Lib friendly MSM refuses to take any of the LPC leadership contenders to task for their ridiculous remarks, or for that matter to even report these remarks.

In light of this gap in media coverage I am proposing nominations to recognize the LPC leadership canidate's efforts in sublime stupidity.

Therefore I have instituted The 2006 Liberal Leadership Canidates Award for Excellence in Hysterical Hyperbole.

Carolyn Bennett is the first nominee for her brilliant assertation that a lack of universal childcare will ultimately equate to a burgeoning prison population in the future. Well done Carolyn.

Of course Bob Rae now qualifies with his unique and highly creative analogy equating Neville Chamberlain's Munich Pact agreement with Hitler to the recent resolution of the softwood lumber dispute. Kudos Bob on being the first canidate to make a Nazi reference regarding PM Harper!!! I'm sure the other canidates are envious!!

As the LPC leadership race heats up I look forward to numerous other contenders emerging to stake their claim to this coveted honour.

Go Heddy!!!!!


Syncro

Posted by: Syncrodox at May 10, 2006 8:40 PM

Sarge, do they not have shift keys on the computers at Wisconsin-Madison University?

Posted by: Kate at May 10, 2006 9:30 PM

Oh, ET. Still on that are you? Well, I don't want to get into the whole stumpage/subsidy issue with you here. But even if you think that it is a subsidy, the $5B was illegal under NAFTA. Even if you ignore the countless rulings by the many many tribunals under NAFTA, the duties they charged were illegal.

And BTW, a criticism of the US or of a deal with the US is not the same thing as being anti-American. Readers on this site who know me know very well I'm far from anti-American. But I am not also not pro-American on every issue. For some reason, a lot of people like you confuse not being pro-American on every issue with being anti-American.

Ted
Cerberus

Posted by: Ted at May 10, 2006 9:32 PM

Winston, you dolt.

"I thought it is Osama bin laden talking about Bush until I saw "Bob Rae" thingy there.

Whatever.... I see no difference though"

It's wrong to compare Bush to Hitler.

It's equally wrong to compare Rae to Bin Ladin. Although understandable if you're, say, 8.

Posted by: Jason D at May 10, 2006 10:05 PM

Jason D,

Are you saying the Lib candidates have minds of 8 year olds?

Posted by: ural at May 10, 2006 11:28 PM

I am alarmed that the CBC is not all over this. We do a lot of business and maintain many positive relationships with Americans. So many Americans died fighting Naziism that I find the analogy of Rae indefensable. Rae is worsening the rural/urban split that has developed in most of Canada except the Maritimes where Liberals are supported ad nauseum .
Why is the MSM so hell bent on portraying the elected representatives of especially western Canadians as closet right wing extremists? Can there now be any doubt that the CBC in particular has a very pro-LPC bias? It really stifles the debate when no other Liberals will counter Rae's assertions that our American neighbours are like Naziis. It is depressing in fact that Tooronto, Vancouver and Montreal are obstructing the progress of our nation by supplying us with such representatives who are intolerant of other Canadians read those of us who pay the bills.

Posted by: Doug B at May 10, 2006 11:39 PM

steve d,

"Pick your commodity and third world countries have better deals than Canada has settled for."

You pick them - show me one if you can ... although 3 is preferable for a claim like this one.

Posted by: ural at May 10, 2006 11:41 PM

Let's not gloss over this 'get a Liberal membership and vote for Bob Rae thing'.

You could probably e-mail his campaign office and request a free membership based on the fact that those darn Conservatives have taken money from your wallet by 'cancelling' the daycare program and 'raising' taxes.

Actually.... I think I'm going to give this a whirl. I'll let you all know how it goes. :-)

Posted by: Brian M. at May 11, 2006 12:13 AM

ET at May 10, 2006 06:19 PM said:
"Canada is not a bilingual country, and forcing it to be what it is not - a practice carried out most extensively in socialist, communist, fascist, ie totalitarian social modes - is a grave error."

Ummm, I don't think Mr. Harper, whose French improves daily, would agree with you. It's too bad you seem to be stuck in some time warp, when people complained about having to see French on their Corn Flakes boxes. I thought those days were behind us.

I'll grant you that Canada is not truly bilingual in practice, in the sense that ALL its citizens are able to function in both official languages. But wouldn't it be a worthwhile goal to work towards? Maybe some day, when some of us resolve our anger management issues.

Try to get a hold of some Québecois singers like Steffie Shock, Pierre Lapointe, Ariane Moffatt, Marjo, Mes Aïeux, among many others. Céline Dion you must already know ... and probably hate, poor girl.

Posted by: Gabby in QC at May 11, 2006 12:42 AM

"The analogy was over the top but that was clearly the point he was making."

Sad we didn't see such nuanced discussion when the CTF blog quoted (didn't even orignate, mind you) a comment that compared (unfavourably) Che and Castro to Hitler and Himmler in terms of killing their countrymen.

Posted by: dcardno at May 11, 2006 12:50 AM

"Canada's low stumpage fees amount to a subsidy..."

Sorry, ET, but as my old professor would have said: 'this response assumes facts not in evidence.'

Posted by: dcardno at May 11, 2006 12:52 AM

Vote Liberal and get variety..

Bob rae will demostrate national bankruptcy.

Parish will provide Voodoo insights.

Fry will promote burning cross security lights.

Graham for ambassador to Hans Island.
There*s more to Bill, but can*t go there. TG

Posted by: TonyGuitar at May 11, 2006 1:14 AM

Low stumpage rates, from just prior to the USA imposing the import duty.

http://www.environmentprobe.org/enviroprobe/index.cfm?DSP=content&ContentID=1674

Posted by: marc in calgary at May 11, 2006 1:16 AM

Iggy is a cheeful guy. Iggy promised to get the Drs and phds out of cabs and back into labs.

Guess he forgot which 13 years party policy put graduates in cabs in the first place. TG

Posted by: TonyGuitar at May 11, 2006 1:22 AM

Iggy is a cheerful guy. Iggy promised to get the Drs and phds out of cabs and back into labs.

Guess he forgot which 13 years party policy put graduates in cabs in the first place. TG

Posted by: TonyGuitar at May 11, 2006 1:22 AM

Tell the people in rural Sask to quit driving their semi truck grain haulers on these grid roads. They're ruining them.

Posted by: ok4ua at May 11, 2006 1:29 AM

I find Rae's sense of equivalence to be eccentric at best....we all know if the roles were reversed, Rae would never get a treaty with the US on anything as mundane as duck migration, let alone a major commodity... actually Rae would probably never get into the US to shop as he fits the guidelines of a terrorist under Patriot act II.

Posted by: W L Mackenzie redux at May 11, 2006 8:35 AM

Shite wrangler Kinsella muses:

"I'd ask his campaign who Rae regards as Hitler, in that scenario, if they got back to me. Which they did not. This is so bloody depressing. And it's reason #3,451 why a lot of us aren't so involved with the Liberal Party of Canada anymore."

Yes, Rae should have stuck to purple dinosaurs in mocking Harper's religious faith or allude to a vacuous book about phantom racism in Harper's home province to make his points so much more "genteel".

Posted by: W L Mackenzie redux at May 11, 2006 8:47 AM

Thanks, Marc in Calgary, for the URL. Yes facts are facts and indeed, Canada's low stumpage fees amount to a subsidy. BC stumpage fees of 25 cents a cubic metre..and you sell that lot at up to $300 a cubic metre. Hmmm.

So, a whole truckload of lumber costs $9.00 for your 'cutting fees'. And you get a massive return on that. No privately owned forest can afford to let its trees go for that sum, and for such a mark-up. Only in Canada?

Yes, our stumpage fees are a subsidy. The MSM, on the whole, kept this information out of sight and mind. Why? Because a key platform of the Liberal Party is always - the Evil USA. That hides the corruption of the Liberal Party.

Posted by: ET at May 11, 2006 9:39 AM

Gabby in QC. No, bilingualism is not a viable goal to work towards. And please don't move into ad hominem - i.e., 'anger management' or other fallacious tactics. Dissent to a policy doesn't suggest emotional or intellectual problems. Dissent can be based on valid rational and empirically sound reasons.

The reason that bilingualism is not a viable goal to work towards, is that a nation cannot be run by 'wouldn't it be nice'. A nation has to be run by reality. To set up policies that are rooted in non-reality is not merely naive, is not merely utopian idealism, it is dangerous.

The reality is that 80% and more of Canadian life is not bilingual and never will be. The majority of citizens don't use French at the corner store, on the bus, in the office. Therefore, to insist that such a requirement is necessary for that same individual to gain any employment in running the country sets up a closed elite set of bureaucrats. That can be compared with the requirement for Latin in Europe in the medieval period - which effectively closed governance to all except the landed elite. And so on..

The cost of making a citizenry what they are not - ie bilingual, is more than any nation can handle. You don't become bilingual by classes in school - and then, never hearing, never using, that language. And why should citizens become bilingual - when they don't use, hear that other language? Just because 'wouldn't it be nice'? I can think of a lot of other places to put the enormous costs of classes in French, schools in French up in the north, having to hire flight attendants to speak French on flights in Canada where no-one understands or uses French, the enormous costs of training civil servants - who then retire taking their 'extra pension for bilingualism' with them. And, the enormous costs of translation.

Again, a society, a nation, must be grounded in reality. Not in 'wouldn't it be nice'. No government can impose reality from the top-down - as Canada has tried to do with bilingualism. It's one generation after such imposition - and it hasn't worked. The result, however, is dangerous. A society whose governing class has become select and self-selective, closed and isolate. Whether such a class is in Iran, Iraq or China, or medieval Europe or Plato's Philosopher-Kings - it's dangerous for democracy.

As for your list of singers - sorry, I'm not into pop music (I prefer opera)...I actually had never heard Celine Dion..and once heard someone on the radio..and wondered, in awe, who such a dreadful screechy voice belonged to. Guess who.
Her voice, of course, has nothing to do with her astonishingly crass 'wouldn't it be nice' lifestyle (..wouldn't it be nice if my manager would leave his wife and marry me; wouldn't it be nice if I could have a wedding in a tent; wouldn't it be nice...and so on.


Posted by: ET at May 11, 2006 9:54 AM

As usual Steve d remains silent when asked to backup his extremism. Run away little man.
enough

Posted by: enough at May 11, 2006 9:57 AM

If Kinsella has 3500 reasons to not be involved with the Liberal party, then he's surely in it for the money.
Just like all the others.

Posted by: richfisher at May 11, 2006 10:06 AM

ET at May 11, 2006 09:54 AM said:
"Her voice, of course, has nothing to do with her astonishingly crass 'wouldn't it be nice' lifestyle (..wouldn't it be nice if my manager would leave his wife and marry me; wouldn't it be nice if I could have a wedding in a tent; wouldn't it be nice...and so on."

For someone who sees "ad hominems" where there are none, you can sure fire a few.

A little idealism (wouldn't it be nice if ...) never killed anyone, but holding on to an inflexible POV that is immutable because it springs from you - that is far more dangerous than all the isms or dictatorships you have tried to associate my POV with.

BTW, German or Italian opera?

Posted by: Gabby in QC at May 11, 2006 12:24 PM

May 10, 2006 – I have heard from the Bob Rae campaign. Took a while, but I appreciate the call. Thanks.

I am told:

1. He did, in fact, compare Harper to Chamberlain.
2. He did, in fact, mention “Munich” but not the word "pact."

Those are what some of us call a distinction without a difference. The meaning of his statement is plain – namely, the deal Harper did with Bush is analogous to the deal Chamberlain did with Hitler.

Do you think that analogy is appropriate? I sure don’t.

Do you think Bob Rae should apologize? I sure do.

Do you think he will? Don’t hold your breath.
kinsella

Posted by: maz2 at May 11, 2006 12:40 PM

Et, Lee and Hank about. . . .

**I think blogs have to be more organized..

YES..
There is a lot of strength here among us and how do we leverage it?

Clearly, politicians did listen to us and the evidence is in the makeup of the CPC
Policy Declaration. 51 pages. March 19/2005.

Possible focus? A printed monthly or bi-monthly.

**Canada Blog News**
=====================

and online of course.

Something like Levant*s Western Standard but this would be National and gently right of center for wide acceptance.

Can you imagine, *Canada Blog News* on the stands next to The National Post, The Mop & Pail?

Carefully selected, edited and grouped pieces kept short and concise would slice into MSM territory in no time.

Nothing beats reading real news with the spin and fluff stripped away. Unless you happen to be an artsy- fartsy professor who revels in word tricks and spin.

Some young conservative is going to copyright the Canada Blog News and make great money.
Go, man go!

You just know that advertisers will flock to that enterprise with exactly the right name for attracting the affluent reader. TG

Posted by: TonyGuitar at May 11, 2006 4:18 PM

One of the things I like about Kate here at SDA is that she always challenges broadbrush statements and accusations and plattitudes of liberals to consider the actual words used by conservative thinkers and politicians in their statements, instead of the spin that the media and liberal opponents give to those statements and words.

So, again for what it's worth (because I don't think actual words or facts seem to be worth much in this hyperbolic conversation), here is what Rae actually said (Duffy has the video on CTV.ca):

“…it’s true for softwood lumber which is an issue that I’ve been working on for the last little while. Now Mr. Harper might like to say that’s a wonderful deal. Don’t forget, Neville Chamberlain came back from Munich, and held up a piece of paper, and said he had peace in our time. He was wrong. So is Mr. Harper. Really wrong.”

So very very clearly he is comparing Harper to Chamberlain the man who caved and tried to appease, not to Hitler, and the circumstances of "peace in our time" to a lumber dispute which is sure to rise again in a few years despite a signed written agreement.

Clearly a very poor choice of analogy, but also clearly no comparison to Hitler or the Nazis. Spin it as much as you want and I know you will. Not every reference to any European political dealings from 1933 to 1945 are meant as references to Nazism, but because of the spinners it is best to stay as far away from making any references to that whole decade as possible.

Not a smart political move from a political veteran. He should know that anyone can and many will distort your words if you give them any kind of chance. And Rae did.

Ted
Cerberus

Posted by: Ted at May 11, 2006 4:26 PM

millions of dead people.
a trade agreement regarding softwood.

"Bob" can't tell the difference?

Posted by: marc in calgary at May 11, 2006 4:43 PM

Why do people get wound up about some political hyperbole? After all, Rae was speaking to a partisan audience and he was showboating in order to get noticed.

If using a Nazi analogy is a sure sign that the argument is lost, why did so many people compare Sadaam to Hitler?

Posted by: anon at May 11, 2006 5:59 PM

The reason no one is going after Rae for his remarks is because all the candidates have promised not to attack each other. Months ago I urged all conservatives to take out memberships in the lib party and try to get to be a delegate. Seems all 1500 have been chosen in Ont, and were at the convention. But, it might be more probable to be a delegate in AB or Sask. Seems most rural ridings have few members, and need lots to get the necessary 14 delegates to go to Montreal. Who pays for the expenses of delegates, themselves or the party or the leader they support. On Newman today one lib said that each candidate has to raise 1 million dollars, he said that is 200 donors of 5000 for each candidate. Guess my 10.00 isn't needed. We the people will demand to know who is financing each campaign. Of course this info will be forthcoming as it is the libs who continually question who financed Harpers, even tho the contributors have been named. Libs can't believe that hundreds of us gave small amounts under 200. dollars. The grassroots raised the money.

Posted by: maryT at May 11, 2006 7:37 PM

Liberal star search needs juicing up

The most shameless promotion of Himself as a Second Coming belongs to Ignatieff, who invokes the spirit of '68 and election of Pierre Trudeau as a "seminal moment" that "happens once in a generation." In other words, vote Mikey and get Trudeau Two
via nealenews

More from bcintoblog:


Iggy:
# Ignatieff said Canada needs to be a leader in “clean coal.” What, prey tell, is clean coal, besides a coal industry marketing buzzword? It’s like “healthy cigarettes” or “exploring for oil.”

Martha Who?:

# Martha Hall Findlay drew a gasp when she stated the obvious: Kyoto is flawed and we need to acknowledge that, but its still the best bilateral agreement we’ve got, and so we should work with it and build on it.

Posted by: maz2 at May 12, 2006 10:41 AM

RE: Ignatieff said Canada needs to be a leader in clean coal.

I'll wager good money that he knows next to nothing about coal mining.

The BC government has jumped in and out of the coal industry for years with no benefits from all their big ideas and much harm to areas like Prince Rupert and Elkford, IIRC.

If these so called political leaders would stay out of the way and maybe focus on building some decent highways or airports these vital industries would stand a much better chance of success.

Posted by: concrete at May 12, 2006 2:14 PM

ural
commodity: oil(is this a big enough commodity for you?)
royalty 1%

Venezuela used to get 1% royalty. Chavez took it up to 16% and now wants it at 33%. American oil is not happy, the CIA is working on this problem. I think assasination is the method they will use. Just an educated guess.

Under NAFTA we are required to send our oil to America. Not Mexico, they exempted oil from their free trade pact.

Posted by: steve d. at May 12, 2006 3:09 PM

ural
commodity: oil(is this a big enough commodity for you?)
royalty 1%

Venezuela used to get 1% royalty. Chavez took it up to 16% and now wants it at 33%. American oil is not happy, the CIA is working on this problem. I think assasination is the method they will use. Just an educated guess.

Under NAFTA we are required to send our oil to America. Not Mexico, they exempted oil from their free trade pact.

Posted by: steve d. at May 12, 2006 3:09 PM

steve d, does the d stand for dimwit, dumcoff or dickhead? I dont think you have any education that would fit your guess. What a DOLT!!!

Posted by: FREE at May 12, 2006 7:13 PM

Free
My,my, what does your analyst say about your rage? Where you abused as a child? I am so sorry.

Posted by: steve d. at May 12, 2006 8:50 PM

steve d.,

"commodity: oil(is this a big enough commodity for you?)
royalty 1%

Venezuela used to get 1% royalty. Chavez took it up to 16% and now wants it at 33%. American oil is not happy, the CIA is working on this problem. I think assasination is the method they will use. Just an educated guess.

Under NAFTA we are required to send our oil to America. Not Mexico, they exempted oil from their free trade pact."

Good one. Does your education also lead you to believe the CIA is coming after you?

Posted by: ural at May 12, 2006 10:05 PM

ural
uh,hello? i am Canadian remember? America already owns us.

Posted by: steve d. at May 12, 2006 11:47 PM

Steve D,
You are owned by your petty hatred and insecure jealousies. We are not required to send our oil to the US. We are required to sell our oil at market prices. A far cry.

The workers paradise of Venezuela will crumble in due time. Another tinpot dictatorship playing the socialist card. Illiterate peasants and ignorant fools believe the venom spewing from Chavez.
enough

Posted by: enough at May 13, 2006 12:19 AM

Steve D,

They know where you live Stevie ... they're coming to get you. Hide Stevie, hide.

Posted by: ural at May 13, 2006 1:00 AM

Enough
Those illiterate peasants and ignorant fools are 80% of the population. They were ignored by the Elite. Now Chavez acknowledges that the oil is their resource too. As a result, they are finally benefitting from their natural resources. I know you find this tragic but they love Chavez.
Don't worry, American oil is not happy and you are correct they will take out Chavez as soon as they can. They already tried once. They took him out for 48 hours but the people wouldn't stand for it so they released him. He is a tricky guy with the support of the masses so they have to be very careful in how they proceed. Especially since they have been exposed by Chavez.

Ural
You keep forgetting, I am Canadian. That means they already own me so why would they want to come and get someone they own?

Posted by: steve d. at May 13, 2006 12:22 PM

Chavez: a tinpot dictator.
Steve D: A deluded fool off his meds.
Go read about what happened Steve. Voicing pleasure at his removal although diplomatically wrong is not taking him out. That is like saying your support for Lenin and friends makes you a mass murderer too.

enough

Posted by: enough at May 13, 2006 12:31 PM

Enough
You obviously don't know your America in South America history.
Here is an example of how America treats leftists.
In 1970 Salvatore Allende was elected the first socialist president of SA in Chile.
America's reaction? Richard Nixon,president ordered the CIA to kill him. In his place they put a military dictatorship lead by Pinochet.
Pinochet is most famous for taking leftists out in helicopters over the ocean and dropping them in(bound of course).
Taking out Chavez is going to be brutal and thousands will die because he has a lot of supporters. I do believe it will happen. History tells me so.

Posted by: steve d. at May 14, 2006 6:22 PM

Bush is white ,uptight and outta sight.He's a tampon that's what he is. He's a Facist,Racist Homophobic white guy, Sounds like a Nazi to me. Maybe a Nazi light? We have our own little hitler,Harper. He's a legend in his own mind. He has the personality of a slug. I hope Bush doesn't piss off Russia And China too much over Iran. These are big guns who aren't scared of the USA. This is not Iraq. Let sleeping dragons lie.

Posted by: ok4ua at May 15, 2006 12:46 AM

WOW these loonies are by far the sickest minds I have ever come across. Good thing the good old USA stands up and protects them every day.

Posted by: FREE at May 15, 2006 7:28 PM

So, Steve D.
Do you retract the statement that they tried to take him out once? Were you in fact wrong? Lying or exaggerating? And your response acknowleged that?

No. Of course not. You bring up 36 years ago. A different time.

And history tells you so. History tells me of asll the murders committed by leftist regimes. Lives ruined, ended, property nationalised and economies ruined. My history tells me that. Recent history too.

Mark my words. Chavez will be brutal. Chavez will kill and imprison his enemies. The Venezuelan economy will implode and Chavez will be responsible. Democracy in Venezuela will be ended. Chavez according to the Venezuelan constitution may not run another term. Any bets this is his final term?
enough

Posted by: enough at May 15, 2006 7:43 PM

Not meaning to press the point, but Nixon was a Democrat in all but the name. So basically this is the left complaining about one of their own.

And what precisely is ok4ua smoking? If Bush is such a Nazi, will people at least stop in the very same breath try passing him off as a "pawn of the Zionist Conspiracy"? It's like "American troops out of Iraq/American troops into Darfur", or "Bush is a moron/Bush is a brilliantly evil electoral genius"... the left has to stop making both baseless accusations at the same time!

Posted by: Feynman and Coulter's Love Child at May 16, 2006 4:04 AM
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