Typical of NDP gov'ts, waste millions on failed enterprises and neglect their areas of responsibility. The sooner Calvert gets the boot, the sooner people can start to return to Saskatchewan. I hope that your posting this leads to positive results for this community (which seems more like an Alberta community).

I remember getting into an argument with a municipal councillor once over some stupid wateful recreational spending that I thought should be user pay.

He responded by asking me if I'd like to build and maintain my own roads as well. Then shut up when I reminded him that he made me do exactly that when he approved my new hog barns a couple of years earlier.

After reading this story I guess I should be grateful they let me even build my own road.

I've never needed a 'Welcome to Saskatchewan' sign to let me know when I've left Alberta and entered Saskastchewan.

Ralph has made the offer for Sask to join the AB/BC trade region. Hopefully you guys can lose the NDP and join in soon.

http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/story.html?id=e63b5988-7aec-4ab2-9cc6-f6e24bb54798

mmmm.Close shop and move it to alberta, or just say you are...that will open eyes!

These pictures do not do this highway justice, it is much, much worse than these pictures depict. My wife came to the farm to visit me and litterally got stuck with her Honda Civic, in a pothole where her car got hung up. Luckily some people where following, they couldnt push it out by hand but had to pull it out of the pothole with their truck. Luckily little damage was done.

On a side note they just paved the highway to Annnaheim(1 1/2 years ago), and that highway is litterally falling apart before our eyes. There are a few spots where the trucks have fallen through and wrecked the membrame of the Highway. Fix these highways right the first time or dont bother.

I have bumper stickers that read: "Free Saskatchewan! End the Socialist Regime!" then there is a picture of the province with a ball and chain around it, and NDP is stamped on the ball.
I sent some to Kate, and a few other bloggers, but we need them on ever farm truck in the province. The first 1000 went rather well, actually. It is amasing how many people honk and give you the thumbs up when they see them. I haven't had any vandalism on any of my vehicles, I know that is a concern.
I am about to order another 1000. Anyone who would like some please e-mail me. I don't make any money on them, I just want them out there. The cost is about 50 cents per sticker, or less, I have to talk to the printer. I like to sell them in a package of 100. Again, whatever my cost is, that's what I charge.

The Canadian Taxpayers Federation usually runs a contest for bad roads every year. You should enter your pictures.
If Bourgault Industries had not been built by "evil" free enterprise and had been on the government tit like Flexicoil, we would probably had a divided highway to their door.
Credit to the Bourgault family for staying in Saskatchewan and keeping 500 jobs here. I am sure the boys have been tempted and lured to more friendly jurisdictions like Manitoba, the Dakotas and Alberta.

Treent, I was given one of those bumper stickers in Stoon: the fellow refused a twoonie, and I took one: I ahve been wanting a bunch more ever since! I posted it near a Sasktel building, and it lasted about a week!

About St Brieux, everyone knows that this is not NDP territory, the people are hard-working, self-sufficient and honest, and the dippers are not popular there! I think that explains the poor quality of the Calvert trail!

I've lived in rural areas all my life and haven't met a farmer yet who not only had complaining down to a fine art but an exact science too.

My solution to bad roads, a 4WD vehicle. I always get to where I'm going and only complain about people who want everything handed to them.

just curious . .. are any of these very successful entrepreneurial businesses unionized ??

Also just wondering, how do the people of St. Brieux vote ? NDP ??

Hit back hard. Direct action. Get the bureauc-rats off your backs; get fat-cat politicians off the gravy-train.

Direct action: who said? Do It.

http://www.ruralrevolution.com/website/

This road is a disgrace and does not even meet the minimum standard for a Third World country, let alone for an area, in a province, in a country that is as prosperous as we are.

Fortunately there have not been any fatalities yet, but I believe the clock is ticking on that. Will it take a death or serious injury to get some attention??

Yes this is not NDP territory, and we definitely are feeling the effects of that.

"This road is a disgrace and does not even meet the minimum standard for a Third World country..."

Have you ever even seen a third world country road?

A secondary hellway - good luck. They've given up on some of the primaries.

DAve, I live and work in St.Brieux and I have just recently bought a 4WD. I bought it to better get around on our winter roads.... not to embrace the off-roading experience of Highway 368. It is really as bad as some claim! This spring, you had to map it out to get through safely... I'm not kidding. I haven't been on it for a few weeks as I will take back roads if I have to travel south. I feel for the people who live along it or have to travel it very day to get to work! I don't care what kind of vehicle you are driving, this road will destroy it.
An interesting note, the 368 was washed out at one location this spring. I had the opportunity to examine the washout cut-away. It's no wonder this road can't be maintained! It is composed of;
- 2" of asphault
- 3" of clay
- the rest of the base...all the way down, is black dirt scooped out of the ditch and fields I can only assume
... not a structurally sound Roman road for sure!

Another note... I was on a tour buss in Cuba this winter & our guide was apologizing to us about the road conditions. A fellow passenger ( a retired school teacher from Regina)proceeded to educate her on the fact that not one of our Saskatchewan roads was nearly as bad as this. I thought that the road was pretty good considering what I was used to. I told this fella "you haven't been out to our neck of the woods there fella. We're a long way from Regina"

PeterD - this isn't a "country road". It's a provincial highway.

Actually yes. Believe it or not us country folk travel too!!

Very Orwellian of the Sask government to call these roads "highways". More like a secondary or tertiary with spotty asphalt. It certainly keeps wheel-alignment companies in business.

They should just give up on these and let the local RM build it up as a grid road.

Perhaps if the government expropriated Bourgeault (call it SaskFarmMachineryEtc) there would be a sudden improvement to the local highway infrastructure.

Oh, Kate, regarding more photos, let's be Web2.0 about this. Let's start a tag on Flickr, call it "saskatchewanhighway"

Norman, if you'd set that up, I'll post a link.

First off get rid of the Nissan thingie and get yourself a real vehicle, oh, say like an F-150 or a GMC Sierra

Good post Rita. This road has a 60kmh speed limit. That is about 50kmh too high.
Note to David Brown: it is not only farmers complaining about the road. I believe it is soft headed fools like yourself who are keeping the NDP in government.

Nothing will change!!! everyone who works for the government, crowns, and teachers, their spouses, kids, relatives, vote ndp and they outnumber the rest of us. Only when everthing falls apart, then it will change "you have to destroy the village to save the village"

Off topic, if our crowns are such a great benefit, such a great asset, why is our population decreasing?

Should more money be devoted to highways in SK? Absolutley, as more money should be devoted to Devine debt repayment as well as a host of other things. But it must be said that this may be possible, were we not tethered to the corpse of agriculture with it's incessant demands for more and more of the tax dollar.

Great comments Rita. I have to drive this road to work evry day and I've been encouraging everyone in the Humboldt region to write to Minister Lautermilch to express their concern about the state of this Hwy.

Lorne Calverts favorite mantra is "under an NDP government nobody gets left behind". I think Mr. Calvert should come out and drive on 368 and he would realize that the people out in this part of rural Saskatchewan, the ones who are creating wealth for this province are definitely being left behind.

Oh, and by the way Peter D., I spent three weeks in Brazil two years ago. I travelled thousands of Kilometers throughout the state of Alagoas which is by far the poorest state in Brazil and not once did I encounter a road that was as bad as 368 is right now.

Note to maryjane. Devine was booted out of office when? 15 years ago. The NDP have had this time to weave their economic magic on this province and where has it got us. You sound like Pat Atkinson. Devine, Devine, Devine scary monster. We are not strictly a farming community. We are an industrial town producing hundreds of millions of dollars to the economy. I guess we are not as smart as preachers, school teachers and other intellectuals who run this once great province.

nobody left behind.

hard to get left behind with everyone driving so slow on the hatched roads.

another disconnect - the government will look after you as long as you keep paying them to do so. minus a 25% adminstration fee.

DonF...15 yrs. ago SK was on the verge of bankruptcy, so we've come a long way. And I agree with you. We should be investing in the infrastructure that will facilitate successful enterprise, not throwing good money after bad on the squeakiest wheel on the political highway.
I mean, after all, we've poured $ billions into the farm sector over two decades and WHERE HAS IT GOT US?

I rode my motorcycle through Saskatchewan last year and most of the highways seemed pretty bad. I also have some family in that area.

It seems to me that Bourgault Industries is one of the things keeping that area alive, so it should be on the government to do their part. There seemed to be a lot of empty villages as I drove through....

Most roads in Saskatchewan are the same, ... BAD!! Seems if you have "cream" in your coffee before you start your travels, ten miles down the road and it's "butter"!! Vehicle damage, accidents, even death because of the conditions of Saskatchewan highways! Did you see on TV a couple of years back that a MAJOR highway that truckers use to get to and from the States was ten KM's of DIRT!!? Yes,a DIRT road running through a farmers field is all that a part of that highway was! They interviewed truckers and the comments were not surprising! The only thing more stupid in this provence than the ndp is the FOOLS that vote them in!! EXCUSES are endless, ACTION is non existant. I've visited Ukraine and the roads there are waaay better than Saskatchewan highways. What are the braindead ndp doing with our tax dollars?? Buying useless money losing crown corporations, investing in money losing schemes, paying law suits/penalties for poor business management practises???! ALL of the above?? They're gonna get knocked off their perch pretty soon and deservedly so!
The danger and economic hardship caused by the state of our roadways is laughable and people ARE laughing. Thing is, is not funny!!
TRENT:
Where oh where can I get my hands on some of those stickers of which you speak?? I'd gladly take twenty, for starters. I live in Moose Jaw. Any suppliers here?
Rural residents seem to know the ndp for who they are. Urban residents need to be educated so we can do something about this come the next election.

We travelled on 368 last summer to go to the Regional Park at St.Brieux.There is no way you would be able to pull a travel trailer over this road with out wrecking it.This is a real disgrace as St. Brieux has a wonderfull Regional Park.

Well, I'm glad to see things haven't changed in the last half dozen years[sarcasm here].

I remember heading to Sask for a photo shoot by Leader. I came into Saskatchewan via Alta Hwy 9 and was rather shocked to see a paved secondary highway with paved shoulders suddenly turn into a potholed camel trail called Sask #7 at the border. My second mistake was to head south on #44. Besides a few hundred feet of oiled gravel in front of farm driveways, the "highway" was disgusting. My vehicle aged a dozen years travelling that road not to mention loosening all my dental fillings.

I lived in Saskatchewan in the early eighties and I believe that was the last time the government put any money into infrastructure. Besides the TransCanada, that most travellers see that is. I honestly don't understand how, a) everyone hasn't left that province, or b) why they haven't tossed out those useless governments that have kept that province in a third world socialist's dream.

The only part of Sask that is "have not" is that big building in Regina by the goose pond.

If you think the state of those roads are bad, try living in Nothern Alberta, where Oilpatch equipment is always on the move...

I would LOVE to drive on a road like that...

I've heard this arguement for so many years now.
Why not a reclassification of the roads and show this on a map.
Why call it a highway if it's not a highway anymore. Maybe more people would take note as to how bad our roads have gotten.

the problem with your method of keeping your topic on top for your site is that it stays on top on the blogroll for bloggingtories.

the problem with your method of keeping your topic on top for your site is that it stays on top on the blogroll for bloggingtories. be a good dear and let it fall through like the rest.

Peter D my husband and I went to Honduras and I will tell you their roads are much better than this.

I had a nice little accident in rural Saskatchewan due to the state of a road near the N.Sask river. Apparently I was driving the wrong way on a one-way road, but the road signs telling me that the road was one-way where overgrown with trees and grass. One of the signs was hand-painted by a local farmer, obviously not a DOT approved sign.

I took many photos to document the lack of signs. I sent those photos to my insurance agent. The agent figured it was a "slam-dunk" - in other words - I would not be responsible for the accident.

Well 6 weeks later SGI sent in their own pictures of the road in question. Guess what? Before taking all the pictures, they trimmed all the trees and cut all the grass. The signs where perfectly visible, and that meant that I was responsible for the accident.

The only means I had to challenge SGI's finding was to sue them. The damages where not significant enough to make that worth while.

At the time I had my 1 yr old in the vehicle. Obviously it could have been a pretty serious accident. I complained to the local municipality, etc, but received no assurances that they would continue to trim the trees and cut the grass.

Pretty pathetic.

I have been reading the comments thus far and just have to get my 2 cents in. Back in the early nineties I was working in Melfort and every couple of weeks made a trip to Humboldt via #368, in those days it wasn't a bad road.

In 1993 when the NDP were elected I moved to Alberta...(big difference in the roads here). But in 2001 I had a mental lapse moved back to Saskatchewan. I couldn't believe that in that short a period of time the road network in that province could go to hell so fast. Highway #41, the road from Tuxford to Central Butte, Hiway #2 from #11 through Watrous just to mention a few, were in terrible shape. After I was back for two years I could understand what had happend and why.

First, an NDP government (tax and spend, second, an overall crappy attitude all the way from the business men to the citizens (no hope),
third, an ever decreasing population base, again (no hope). I took a look around and said to hell with this and came running back to Alberta. Believe me I would rather be back home, but the negativity just makes me nuts! I just can't exist in a socialist climate...it just like living in a boarded up room with no light. I just can't understand why so many people vote NDP....WHY? The old saying goes "you are known by the company you keep", so what's Saskatchewan known for. High taxes, poor business climate, pro-labour, bad roads, broke farmers, cheap real estate, depopulation, dying towns and cities, and an never ending love affair with socialism.

I can't see how you expect the capital markets, the people with the money to spend, to ever embrace investment with the reputation your province has earned. In fact if a miracle were to happen and a "free enterprise" government were to be elected and stay in power for let's say 30 years, it will take a couple of generations for the capital markets to gain enough trust to start investing. You see the people of Saskatchewan have a bad habit of voting socialists back into power and breaking trust with the capital markets over and over again.

So I can only say it appears "you get what you deserve".....if you can't come to your collective senses and boot those NDP Bastards out, you better get good glass insurance coverage, cause you will be driving on a lot more gravel.

Regarding the photos,

OK, I have a tag on flickr. It may take a few hours before they're made public, so be patient (I put the two pictures above to kick things off)

To view the photos, surf to www.flickr.com and search for one of the following tags:

saskatchewanhighway
saskhighways

The second one is easier to spell for Ontario folks. Ha! just kidding. If anyone else is posting using their own flickr account, use those tags.

Kate, if you like you can forward any photos you receive to my email.

Not really an excuse but Saskatchewan has far more miles of road per population than Manitoba. And our highways aren't much better.

"not throwing good money after bad"

Then explain to me how this debt ridden provincial government has managed to find money under Preacher Calvert to add nearly 5000 new civil service employees to the payroll, as the population they "serve" continues to decrease?

These roads have been paid for several times over with Federal and Provincial fuel tax.
Transport companies have been lobbying for a long time to have these taxes put directly into transportation infrastructure (for which they were originally intended), instead of being directed to general revenue, where only a small fraction returns to road construction and repair.

It looks like you'd have a smoother ride by abandoning the "highways" and driving in the farmer's fields. Gopher holes will be smaller than the potholes!

Wow we have unimproved clay roads around here that look like interstates compared to that "highway" of course there are signs that say Unimproved Clay Road Use at own Risk.

Hard to believe they call 368 a highway.

To the person that suggested the F-150 or Sierra, my work truck (GMC 2500 HD) has 110,000 KM they just replaced the ball joints , new transfercase housing and bearing . As well as new clutch fingers for four wheeel drive and low and high range as they where pretty well shot.
Looking at the pictures of 368 they resemble many of the uncharted paths I have to drive on everyday.

The Blogging Tories will have to take a pill. CKOM has been sending listeners here as part of their hourly newscast this morning, so stay at the top it will for now.

Who was it that said that the road to hell is paved with good intentions? Hell, under Saskatechewan Calvertism, it isn't even paved at all.

this is the kind of thing the federal infrastructure money missed while it was consummed with necessary infrastruture projects like refitting the saddledome with new close to the ice boxes.

Im not making this up, in Canada.

Here's some advice for Calvert and his crew; A good government is like a good hockey referee. If a referee is doing a good job you shouldn't even notice him. It is the same with good government , if they stick to what they are suppose to do and simply supply infrastructure to support free enterprise and then let the entreprenuers take care of creating jobs and growing the economy you wouldn't even notice the government. It seems that our left-leaning NDP can't stand to quietly stay on the sidelines and let the entreprenuers play the game, instead they insist on spending our tax dollars on direct investment in business. If the money that was spent on business investment was instead spent on infrastructure like re-building 368 then we wouldn't even know the government was there because they would be doing exactly what they are supposed to be doing and nothing more. We would all be better off and we would have a much better game, not to mention a hell of a lot more players.

This is the first time that I have seen this site and find it very interesting. I will be visiting it more often.

I had a nice little accident in rural Saskatchewan due to the state of a road near the N.Sask river. Apparently I was driving the wrong way on a one-way road, but the road signs telling me that the road was one-way where overgrown with trees and grass. One of the signs was hand-painted by a local farmer, obviously not a DOT approved sign.

I took many photos to document the lack of signs. I sent those photos to my insurance agent. The agent figured it was a "slam-dunk" - in other words - I would not be responsible for the accident.

Well 6 weeks later SGI sent in their own pictures of the road in question. Guess what? Before taking all the pictures, they trimmed all the trees and cut all the grass. The signs where perfectly visible, and that meant that I was responsible for the accident.

The only means I had to challenge SGI's finding was to sue them. The damages where not significant enough to make that worth while.

At the time I had my 1 yr old in the vehicle. Obviously it could have been a pretty serious accident. I complained to the local municipality, etc, but received no assurances that they would continue to trim the trees and cut the grass.

Pretty pathetic.

I'm not sure what you're refering to re: 5000 new civil servants, Kate, but far be it from me to defend wasteful spending. If the civil service is bloated, then by all means, it should be downsized. I would suggest we start by eliminating the Dept. of Agriculture and the farm subsidies that go with it.

MaryJane, stop smoking. Here's a 3 dollar statscan table I just bought, I'll just list the April numbers:

Table 282-00891,5,6
Labour force survey estimates (LFS), employment by class of worker and sex, seasonally adjusted and unadjusted, monthly (Persons x 1,000)

Survey or program details:
Labour Force Survey - 3701

Geography=Saskatchewan
Class of worker=Public sector employees2
Sex=Both sexes
Seasonal adjustment=Unadjusted

(in thousands)
Apr 87 - 104.9
Apr 88 - 104.5
Apr 89 - 105.1
Apr 90 - 101.9
Apr 91 - 102.1
Apr 92 - 103.4
Apr 93 - 106.0
Apr 94 - 101.5
Apr 95 - 103.9
Apr 96 - 100.8
Apr 97 - 104.2
Apr 98 - 102.0
Apr 99 - 106.3
Apr 00 - 108.8
Apr 01 - 109.7
Apr 02 - 109.8
Apr 03 - 112.8
Apr 04 - 115.6
Apr 05 - 118.9
Apr 06 - 120.4

So, you were correct. It isn't 5000 civil servants in the 5 years that Calvert has been in power (Feb 01). . . .it's 10.6 thousand.

Let's average that out to 40k/year shall we? 420 million dollars in wages alone. Don't think the NDP in power gives the SGEU a woody? Think again.

Cheers,
lance

...time to move to Alberta, I'd laugh if the cost to build a new road would be the same cost in moving a town on the Alberta sider...

I remember visiting a friend in Meadow Lake and would drive from Grand Centre/Cold Lake, and like a poster said, I didn't need a sign telling me I left free enterprize.

Loved those gravel tar filled sections of the highway, made driving more fun as one would shalom around them and play chicken with big semi's doing the same coming the other way.

Yet, my ol' farmer friends up in ML and Pierceland swear by the NDP...Devine didn't help much either.

cheers
tom

...one reason Saskatchewan doesn't pave the 'highway' is an attempt to slow the flow of people leaving the province.

Dang! I said I wouldn't make a Sask joke again...

Maryjane seems tobe on a mission to dismantle agriculture in Saskatchewan. One thing she should know is that the NDP collect more taxes from farmers (ie: education taxes) and agricultural products (hundreds of dollars on a bushel of barley when tuned into beer) than they pay in subidies. It would also mean the loss of hundreds of thousands of jobs. I guess Alberta would be happy, it could solve their labour shortage.

ignore maryjane: she admits to being maliscious, and I think that she works for the NDP!

Hundreds of dollars on a bushel of barley when turned into beer??? How does that work?
hank

I still call Saskatchewan home even though I have lived in Calgary for the past 13 years. I have a cabin at Wakaw Lake and spend time there each summer; because it is still home. My cabin is about 25 miles west of Highway 368 and I know that highway well. It is a disgrace, and so is Highway 41; the main route between Saskatoon and Melfort.

I was just on this highway on Monday and Tuesday and it is hard to believe the neglect that the provincial government has shown towards the roads. Blaming everyone but themselves doesn't cut it for me anymore.

I know the folks at Bourgault Industries. Gerry Bourgault, the President is one of the nicest persons you will ever meet and certainly the most unassuming. What he and his family have done for agricultural manufacturing is phenominal, they have created an unbelieveable number of jobs in a rural (and without any government assistance; hello Spudco!).

This company does business in the Ukraine, Western and Eastern Europe, Kazakhstan, Australia and South America. I just shudder to think of what thoughts go through the minds of these world visitors on the drive to their factory.

For crying out loud, Can't the provincial government give Bourgault and St. Brieux a decent road?

and the budget passed and even martin show up to vote .....for what? to earn my cent ...i give to beggers like him always

The journey of a thousand miles begins with the first pothole.

It's to flat to build a good road.

NDP doesn't like to do anything tangible (you can't talk spending ... they do it like in Brewster's Millions) unless it's lining their own pockets.

Your talkin' out of your ass as usual, ural. Got anything to back that drivel up?
hank

Hank, one bushel of barley makes 333 bottles of beer. I wish I knew how much tax there is on a bottle but it is over half of the price, especially when consumed at a licenced establishment because they add a consumption tax. So even if the tax were $0.75 per bottle (I'm sure it's higher)the taxes collected would be $249.75 per bushel.

My Brother spends alot of time in Sask. driving around selling welding rods. He's got a bad road story for every time he goes out there! His company car, a 2005 four door sedan looks like a twenty year old farm truck underneath...

F.Y.I;
I think {by the way he posts} that maryjane is also known as "laughing boy" on other forums. An ndp whacko. Pay him no never mind.
Just a hunch, but the resemblance is uncanny. Anti farmer, pro union and ndp.

368...what a mess....we were going to do some golfing in Humboldt from St.Brieux but after that first trip we are not going back as we would have to get a new vehicle in no time.......we were in Saskatoon not long ago and see that there is a NEW stretch of HIWAY to the reserve if you want to go golfing.....I guess that is more important to Calvert than the huge businesses in this St.Brieux area...I just shake my head as I cant believe people keep voting those NDP back in...I just do not get it I would like to get Ralph to try his hand at this province after he retires from the ALBERTA Govt....

hank,

Just google fast ferries or NDP or Glen Clark. Just bc "fast ferries" will get you 27,000 hits ... it's not hard, you just have to open your eyes. BTW: Not one of those 27,000 is mine.

I'm sure the other provinces can show the same results ... don't have the time to show YOU how ignorant you are.

Lyle, just because a bottle of beer is taxed $0.75, it does not follow that the barley is responsible for generating that tax, anymore than the bottle cap is responsible, or the bottle. Barley is but one small component that goes into the brewing process and a miniscule link in the production, distribution, marketing, retail, consumption chain. Sorry, there may be some justification for ag support, but that old canard ain't it.

Ural... I thought the subject was SASKATCHEWAN highways. Name me a party of any stipe that was not guilty of fiscal incompetence/malfeasance somewhere along the way and I'll show you a party that has never been in gov't. You've demonstrated nothing.

henry,

"just because a bottle of beer is taxed $0.75, it does not follow that the barley is responsible for generating that tax, anymore than the bottle cap is responsible, or the bottle. Barley is but one small component that goes into the brewing process and a miniscule link in the production, distribution, marketing, retail, consumption chain."

Lets see if we can make it simple enough for even you to understand. The tax that Lyle is referring to is for alcohol ... in this case beer. Beer is made from barley, hops and water. The tax he is talking about is the contents of the bottle/can ... not the bottle/can.

Although everything to do with beer is taxed ... the bottle/can/marketing/retail/etc/etc ... the tax he is referring to is the contents (the beer).

Lets review ... the beer is taxed as alcohol ... beer is made by using barley, hops and water.

Lets review ... the beer is taxed as alcohol ... beer is made by using barley, hops and water.

Lets review ... the beer is taxed as alcohol ... beer is made by using barley, hops and water.

henry,

"Name me a party of any stipe that was not guilty of fiscal incompetence/malfeasance somewhere along the way and I'll show you a party that has never been in gov't."

It seems that artifact has vanished ... so you are my new teacher as far as logical fallacies are concerned.

I'll nominate ET as my evaluator ... he seems to be a little more impartial than my teachers.

I'm calling Argumentum Ad Ignorantium.

ural, Even if you calculate the tax as only a tax on alcohol, the barley component ( at $5.00 a bushel) only has a value of 1.5 cents, a very small percentage of the end cost of the taxable ALCOHOL product. The idea that because beer is taxed and barley is an ingredient in beer therefore every bushel I grow nets the government $250.00 in taxes is ludicrous.

Having visited and lived in Saskatchewan this past summer, I can say without question that even the urban roads in Saskatoon were total and utter human excrement. Half the sidewalks were road level or else at least 30cm up from the road, a pain in the rear if you're trying to ride a bike around, let along drive a car. There was a giant pothole that was in the middle of the residential street that I lived on. It was ridiculous. Construction that takes a day in a lot of countries seemed to take weeks. There were often days were there weren't even workers around work sites, on week days. It was utterly ridiculous. I'm glad that someone in the province is trying to take

I have story to tell you all. A friend of mine was spending some time in Arizona a few winters ago when he was approached by a American. He says " You must be from Canada?" to which my friend replies a proud "Yes". The American asks which province he lives in, to which he replies "Saskatchewan" . The American fellow then comments " My buddies and I come up there every year for bird hunting, and that is quite something you all do up there with your roads. It seems everywhere that there is a hole in the road, theres always a little red sign put up to mark it." Now my friend feeling a tad proud of his province( Yes he use to vote NDP) says a matter of factly " Why yes there is a red warning sign put up at most every hole." He then smugly asks the American " And what does your highway department do to address holes in the road?" The American replies " Well, instead of putting up a sign, they just fix them!".

henry,

Your going circular. That's Lyle's point - he is getting 1.5 cents on a bottle of beer for the main ingredient ... the rest (other than hops and water) is taxes. Lyle also has to pay taxes on the 1.5 cents he gets.

Tell the farmers to quit driving their semi truck grain haulers off the grid roads.It quite easy to say fix them it's another thing to find the money. I'd put ane extra tax on SUV's and 4x4 trucks. I'd slow semis down on all highways. 100 kmh on twin highways and 90 kmh on single lane highways. These semi's destroy our roads and the taxpayers have pay to repair them.

ok4ua,

NDPer? Who else would want to tax the only vehicles that can drive on the flag marked off-road "highways" the NDP government delivers?

ok4ua - These semi's destroy our roads and the taxpayers have pay to repair them.

As a former trucker, i agree with this statement, but not for the same reasons.

A large part of the damage is due to the weight of the vehicle, not the speed it travels.

Althought some states are begining to allow larger weights, the majority of US states only allow 80,000 lbs. gross weight max, whereas Canada allows appx 144,000 lbs gvw.

The transport industry has paid an enormous amount of fuel taxes, more than enough to have paid for the proper repair, construction, and maintenace of these roads.

At present time, virtually every trucker must fuel up in SK, due to the extreme fuel tax that is levied by this province(fuel tax is calculated for every truck, based on the mileage for every state and province it has travelled through). SK has one of the, if not the highest, fuel tax rates in North America.

The brewer is paid about 2$ a case. the rest is tax.
The big brewerys make their profit from the 2$ by keeping the cost of the ingredients and the labour cost low. Mountain crest brews its beer in the US in a non-union shop to reduce labour costs( or in this case labor costs) and they save the cost of printing that little stamp on the cap "union made"
like the corn in the corn flakes , the barley cost is darn small.

just an aside. Alberta is the largest barley producer and the largest gas producer.

I think they are linked but need another bottle of beer to test the theory.

opening beer also releases green house gases.

You maroons call that a highway- get SNC Lavelin to make a toll-road out of it, (and after they have hosed you on tolls, they can sell it to a foreign-owned investment company-it's the 'canadian way'.)

Great article and discussion.

The reason the NDP (MaryJane) hate the farmers is because the farmers won't vote NDP. The west 1/2 of the province, if you remove cities, hasn't voted NDP ever! The reason that people in Sask. expect the governments to maintain our roads is because that is one of their core responsibilities supposedly but instead they keep dabbling in places where they have absolutely no business being there (ie. taking over or starting businesses which compete with private industry using public money). They are killing our province but the cities don't see it and their world needs to come crashing down in order to change this stupid thing. All the NDP talks about in this province is Grant Devine and the debt they claim he put us in (no mention that the NDP before him also had us in debt). However, the last few years we've had record amounts of money in the provincial coffers and the Calvert government has put not one penny of that towards eliminating our debt. Kick those losers out or I think the west 1/2 of the province will be so fed up that we may move the Alberta border over.

I don't hate farmers, boot, I hate farm SUBSIDIES and the huge bite they take out of my paycheck. In the last few years we indeed have had record amounts of revenue and the farm sector has been sucking up every spare dime. That's my point.
And coyote, I thought opposing business subsidies was a solid Conservative value. How does that make one anti-farmer, pro-union, and pro-NDP?

I grew in Melfort and used to work at Bourgault. I now live in Alberta and if wasn't for Bourgault Industries, I would have left along time ago. I had the pleasure of driving this particular stretch of road last summer and it has continued to get worse every year. I was just out in the area last week and it seems that Hiway 41 is not to far behind the old 368. Saskatchewan Hiways have been the root of alot of jokes all over North America and this is a prime example of why. PETER D and DAVID BROWN - (a.k.a "Knuckle Draggers" - Have you ever been to this road? I have and I have also been to a few Third World Countries and it is comparable and worse in spots compared to a poverty stricken nation's back country road however this is a provincial hiway. To me you sound like a couple of ignorant idividuals with nothing better to do than that sit in front of your computer and eat Doritis. Do ya feel a stroke coming on??? Let's hope! In closing, I love Saskatchewan, but will never again live there, but it will always be my home!

This is yet one more example of governments' out of touch with what their real responsibilities are.
As taxpayers we see a flood of our money going to all levels of government.Harper is bang on with his view on the current fiscal imbalance.Lets get this money to the governments that impact our lives the most,prov. and civic.
Remind these demi-gods they have basic responsibilities to perform before they start inventing new pet projects to fund.This inexcusable negligence expands well past Sask's. borders.
I swear,if the NDP ever gets back in in B.C.,I'm going back to AB!

A few years ago I went to Zambia to do some volunteer work. Out of five Canadians, I was the only one from rural Saskatchewan. Guess what? I was the only one who would dare to take the wheel of our Toyota Mini-van and navigate through the maze of potholes. I had lots of practice.

As I sit here in my hotel room in beautiful Banff, Alberta reading the comments above, I am full of mixed feelings. I was born, raised and continue to live in Saskatchewan. On my drive out here on Wednesday, I was listening to Gormley. My wipers were clearing away the raindrops from my windshield. The topic on the radio was the inexcusable shape of some of our provincial highways, such as 368, 19 and others. As John's voice crackled on the airwaves, I passed by Alsask westbound on Highway 7, suddenly the rain stopped, the dreary grey sky broke open and what was just to my right? The "Welcome To Wild Rose Country - Alberta" sign stood tall against a bright blue sky, basking in the glow of the afternoon sun. Fate? Not sure, but it was definitely a very surreal moment, to say the least.

Based on population trends (the cities keep growing, most rural towns and villages dying), I am of the firm belief that Saskatchewan will re-elect the NDP to another term in government in June of 2007. Mark my word. Calvert will buy his party another term by emptying out the bank account for seniors, health care, natives, union folk (gov't employees), and will sway the centerist vote to the left. Rural areas will again paint the countryside SaskParty green but the majority of the seats will be urban orange. What will follow will be the single biggest mass exodus of people from one single jurisdiction this country has ever seen. Rural people, pissed off at the NDP, will not give Calvert and his cronies their wish by moving into the cities...they will flee the province in droves (who would want an NDP MLA in the big city when it is their illogical ideology which caused rural Saskatchewan to suffer in the first place?).

If NDP sympathists (like MaryJane and Henry who are in a perpetual state of denial and can't get past 1972) look forward to paying even more taxes to offset the loss of population and the subsequent erosion of the province's tax-base, then so be it. I will take my small business, my countless hours of volunteerism, my monetary investments, my positive free enterprise attitude, my 25+ year future before retirement, my wife and my child that will be born later this year to Alberta and avoid any further part in this political cleansing of Saskatchewan. I love Saskatchewan but, like so many others before me and those who will follow me, I need to take care of my family first.

I will not allow an archaic, backwards assed bunch of left-leaning, organized labour-loving sheep herders to consume the energy I have and am willing to share to make this world a better place. It's really with a heavy heart that I will leave Saskatchewan but, as a close friend who lives in Calgary told me during a quick visit yesterday on my way to Banff, "you know, I got the gears for leaving Saskatchewan instead of staying to try and fix it...but, you know what? You see everyone here so happy...with such a positive attitude and a positive outlook on things that it makes Saskatchewan very, very easy to forget. I can't ever see myself going back there, I'm too happy here."

And that, for all the NDPers in denial, is but one person out of thousands who have come to the same conclusion about Saskatchewan.

Here's an interesting idea: Maybe we should form a militia and invade Alberta. Once across the border we could then surrender and live happily ever after.

"pisssed off driver" I have a better idea, Have Alberta invade, and put the real estate to better use.

Once they fix the roads, I think the locals would walkacross broken glass to prevent the Alberta militia from leaving.

Sounds like a paying proposition actually. I wonder if I could a arrange a private military services company, sell stock options, and simply take over. King of Saskatechewan. Good title.

"pisssed off driver" I have a better idea, Have Alberta invade, and put the real estate to better use.

Once they fix the roads, I think the locals would walkacross broken glass to prevent the Alberta militia from leaving.

Sounds like a paying proposition actually. I wonder if I could a arrange a private military services company, sell stock options, and simply take over. King of Saskatechewan. Good title.

The NDP have been in power for long enough to experience the natural evolution forced upon them by the pressures of Governing. The NDP are beginning to see the failings of their socialist ideology and are getting a little closer to the common sense realization that creating a hostile environment for business drains their ability to fund social programs. However, the likelihood that the NDP could truly embrace business would be like Hyena trying to convince itself and others it is now a vegetarian and newly born game is safe in its presence. The very nature of the NDP, its core beliefs and instincts are undeniable. At its core the NDP believes that the enemy resides in places like the St. Brieux area. The NDP believes that the St.Brieux areas strong entrepreneurial spirit and independence is a threat and should be be crushed by any means the NDP government has at its disposal.(If anyone doubts this simply go to the NDP website and read the "Regina Manifesto"). This documents is the backbone of the NDP ideology and would make any truly free minded individual shudder as its ultimate goals is to destroy economic freedom. Does it make sense to destroy that what creates the revenue, no, it never does, but when have socialist ever made sense.
St.Brieux and area has been under siege from NDP policies for years whether its heavy government subsidies to direct competitors of our companies, property tax assessments that are unjustly amongst the highest in the province and now gross neglect of infrastructure despite reaping millions every year in income, business and property taxes. Enough taxes in a single year that would pay for the upgrade of Highway 368 three or four times over.
Eventually the socialist of this province will have to come to terms with the fact that Saskatchewan has wasted decades by denying opportunity and growth and that hanging on to old and rotting achievements like Medicare keeps us stuck in a quagmire of base line mediocrity.
Will we ever experience our potential? I am not so sure anymore because the NDP government and its policies simply reflects the mind set of the majority of voters in this province and they seem perfectly content with a rotting infrastructure and droves of our best fleeing west to Alberta.
Winston Churchill once wrote:" Socialism is the philosophy of failure the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy".
He must have been thinking of Saskatchewan when he wrote this .

Well put Claude, I couldn't agree with you more. It makes me wonder how many people who accept mediocrity in their lives and vote NDP out of fear have ever read the Regina Manifesto. Socialism, in its purest form, basically levels the playing field by bringing those who succeed down to a lower level, both financially (tax schemes) and socially (Medicare).

How does this all relate to highways? No, it has nothing to do with Devine. No, it has nothing to do with the miles and miles of paved "roads". No, it has nothing to do with our sprawling land mass.

It has everything to do with herding the population into larger centres where social programs can be administered easier, voters can see NDP spending and agree with it and, for all intents and purposes, control the actions and thoughts of the electorate by having them all in large groups. The NDP will continue to hide behind the veil of care and concern for rural Saskatchewan, all the while pushing people into urban areas by neglecting vital infrastructure such as highways, health care and education.

The NDP will continue to say that the province is growing and doing well economically but that money is tight and they can't maintain every single stretch of road to the standards other jurisdictions do. Meanwhile, Minister Thomson socks away hundreds of millions of dollars into the "rainy day" fund, only to be withdrawn when an election is imminent. The NDP are masters of deception and we all know who the most easily deceived people are: seniors and the less fortunate (yes, the less fortunate happen to be qualified, able workers but choose not to because the government will take care of them...I know at least half a dozen people that can but won't work because they have no need to).

As long as the NDP keep scaring the bejeesus out of "vulnerable" (read: seniors and the less fortunate) and pander to organized labour and natives, they will be hard pressed to lose an election.

It's a perpetual death spiral this province has been in since Tommy Douglas first decided to enter politics. As far as the typical NDP sympathizer goes, just remember to leave your membership card at the border when you finally wake up and join the rest of us in reality.

And, let's not forget one very important item: Lorne & Co. says that in Saskatchewan "no one gets left behind". I tend to agree to a point. No one gets left behind...but no one can possibly get ahead, either.

"I have a better idea, Have Alberta invade, and put the real estate to better use."
Not a bad idea, but there IS a catch...

"Once they fix the roads, I think the locals would walkacross broken glass to prevent the Alberta militia from leaving."
While it is true, the Alberta's economic spirit would create job and opportunity for Saskachewan, the roads are what shoulders the "burden" of progress...
I just got back from the Oiler game last night, and there is 30 km of highway along the way(near Calling Lake Alberta) that makes those pictures seem like the race-track at Daytona. The highway to Fort Mac is not any easy path to take, either. I wish I could drive on nice flat empty roads, like the ones in Saskachewan.

This topic seems to have started some very interesting philisophical discussions. 35 years ago when I was 19 years old I read "Atlas Shrugged "by Ayn Rand. I found it to a facinating story. I was too young at the time to fully understand her message but the story stayed with me for all these years. She could have been writing about Saskatchewan. Her writings came from growing up in communist Russia . There is very fine between communism and socialism. Socialism just takes longer. The end result is the same. This story stayed with me and I have constantly observed parrallel in the way our society is evolving her in Saskatchewan and the society Ayn Rand describes in her book. Situations that appears so ludicrous in her book are happening every day in Saskatchewan.

You would think that any Govenrment with any common sense would enable a group of people like those who create wealth and prosperity in St.Brieux . Instead they make it almost impossible for them to do buisness. Only individuals with almost superhuman strength and commitment to their communities can continuue to do what they best.

Eventally ,like Ayn Rand characters in Atlas Shrugged they people will tire of the abuse heaped on them.The thing the socialist don't understand is these people understand the concept of free will and they will leave and go somewhere where they can be free and prosper. The other thing they don't understand is the fact that these wealth creating individual tend to be people who have little fear of the unknown and they are not afraid of change and risk. If anybody wants to know where Saskchewan will end up if they don't change this Goverment and it's anti wealth creating attitude read "Atlas Shrugged".

A few years ago, 2001 I think it was, the NDP government in Saskatchewan was collecting 395 million in road taxes and spending a grand total of 190 million on road repairs, maintenance and construction. I don't know what the present numbers are, but they are probably close.

Whoo Hooo
Sold my House in Saskatoon and am off to BC. Reading these posts and current state of Sask just adds icing to the decision to get out.
One more P Eng gone from this province.
Looking forward to all the visits from my S'toon friends in the sunny Okanagan!!

Mr. Calvert and his brilliant cuacus have designated the federal gas tax money to "environmentally sustainable projects" .
The town of Eston is being given a grant from the gas taxes to replace the motor that drives the compressor on the ice plant in the rink with a variable speed motor which will save some power.
Meanwhile the road through Eston was described by an American hunter last fall as "must have been bombed by Bush". Truckers have refused to truck in that area becase of bad roads.
This is what happens when infrastucture is ignored for too long. Catch up is impossible. I still think it is Grant Devine's fault for fixing too many roads. He could have deleted them instead like we did with Hospitals and get everyone living in the cities

Hey, congrats on your move Dred! The sunny Okanagan is a wonderful place.

I have one question, though. How much did ISC screw out of the buyer for a title transfer? :-)

No need to answer, it's late and I'm just being a 'tard.

We all know the answer to the ISC question is the same as the fundamental NDP mantra...

"too much" (too much capitalism is bad, too much business is bad, too much asphalt is bad, etc etc etc).

Any room in your moving van for 2 (plus an unborn) more? You could just drop us off in Calgary on your way thru.

Reading this I am reminded of a wonderfull book by P.J. O'Rourke called "Eat the Rich". In this book he examines all types of economies around the world. He attempts to exlpain why some fail and other's do not. His conclusions are that the freer an economy is the more suceesful it is . In other words goverment should get out of the way and stop competing with the entrepreuners.

He also has a little story at the end about a saleman who stops to eat supper with a farmer. The family is there but the farmer also has a pig sitting at the table. The pig has 3 gold medals around his neck and a wooden leg.
The saleman asked the farmer why he has a pig at his dinner table. The farmer goes on to explain that that pig was responsible for saving every member of his family at one time or other by his intelligence ,resoursefullness and courage. The salesman is very impressed by this amazing pig and has one more question. "What about the wooden leg?".

The farmer answers "A pig like that you don't eat him all at once!!!!"

Does it remind it remind you of anyone Mr. Calvert?

pissed off and dredded boink, you won't be missed. Now this is just speculation, but I would bet that SK has more miles of good highway than Alberta or B.C. I would bet that SK. spends more per capita on highways than Alberta and B.C. And we do it with the dead weight of infinitely needy agriculture dragging us down.

...is it true Saskatchewan has the highest Internet users and bloggers because they can't get out or visit neighbours because of the bad highways?

Dang, another Sask joke...

...got a stupid question. Seeing this is a fairly large business, known around the world, how do they ship their products out to the global market?

Surely not by Semi...

To Maryjane: The ignorance in your remarks is fitting of the typical NDP voter. This conversation has nothing to do with farm subsidies and everything to do with an industrial center that produces over 100 million in manufactured goods and who is denied basic infrastructure. Also, I have nothing to do with farming but the reason our farmers are hurting are unfair trade subsidies that is out of their control something your socialist Federal Liberals and NDP have done nothing about.
Tomax7: Yes unbelievably, millions of dollars of goods are moved back and forth by semi through roads like you see above. It is nothing short of treacherous to meet a semi on these roads but we are given no choice.
The Bizarre new business friendly "Think Sask" NDP really believe they can trick businesses into setting up shop here when they continue to aggressively pursue tactics that are hostile to existing businesses.

This conversation has got a lot to do with farm subsidies claude, because money that should be going into infrastructure is diverted into farm subsidies. So if you're going to bellyache about the state of the roads in this province, then you have to talk about the reasons for the lack of resources being devoted to highways. The budget for the dept. of agriculture is a lot bigger than the dept. of highways.

EU and US subsidies go to a largely domestic market. Canadian production is largely for export. To blame farm woes on foreign subsidies is a canard.

- to maryjane spending per capita -
Sask exactly how many live here? Gov website says 990,930 as of Jan. 2006.
Highway projected spending for 2006 expected 278 mil you can check the facts on their website
http://www.highways.gov.sk.ca/docs/FrontPageElements/contructionlist_06.pdf
(that makes approx. 280.54 a head)

Alberta's population as of April 2005 count was 3,236,906 and rising if they grow by another 50,000 that would take them to 3,286,906
so let's make it and even 3.3 (wouldn't want the math to be too hard for some)
Highway spending for 2006 3.6 billion to cover the next 3 years, that's 1.2 billion a year if you want here is their website
http://www.gov.ab.ca/budget2006/index.cfm?page=1410
(so they plan to spend approx. 363.64 a head)

I know I am a little generous on the Alberta growth, I would not want mj to think I was playing with the numbers and giving Alberta an unfair edge on Saskatchewan.

Your comments show truly clueless you are really not worth responding to but here goes anyways. Subsidies in the U.S. an EU encourage overproduction and result in less importing from efficient producers like our SaskFarmers who by the way are the most efficient in the world. I live in rural Sask. and have virtualy nothing to do with that sector of the economy but to blame farmers for failing infrastructor is pure idiotic drivel NDPer's like you like to spew. The Ag sector is still a net contributor to the economy despite their woes unlike socilists like you who Churchill describes:As envious ignorant and failed.

I don't blame farmer's, bonehead, I blame farm subsidies. Farmers in the EU and US are every bit as efficient as Canadian farmers. The US and EU consume 70-80% of what they produce. Canada EXPORTS 70-80% of what we produce. Who's overproducing? Do you have the wit to realize that YOU'RE the one advocating socialism?

Again clueless MaryJane: American and EU farmers are technologicaly 10 to 20 years behind our farmers. I worked in the sector for 20 years on both sides of the border and massive subsidies have made U.S.them inefficient because there is no real incetive to improve. The subsidies ours get is less than 10% the average American and EU farmers gets so it cannot even compare. Calling for a level playing field is not advocating socialism. Uniformed statements like you make are truly why this province stagnates as it focuses its energy on attacking the results of ignorance like you spew rather than the real problems of poor fiscal policies.

So what is it, comrade? You worked in the sector for 20 yrs. or you have virtually nothing to do with the sector?

And how much of the North Dakota budget is devoted to farm subsidies? Close to 10% as in SK or close to zero?

I left the ag sector years ago and sell to the US construction market. Is that too comlplex for youi to grasp. Again you are making incorrect or inaccurate assumptions.

Again Maryjane's idiotic drivel has forced me to throw my 2 cents in (I suppose a good NDPer like maryjane would want to tax it as well). I think I am correct in suspecting maryjane is a civil servant. For a civil servant to complain about subsidies to agriculture is like the pot calling the kettle black. A government paycheck is a drain on the tax dollars as well. I suppose we should blame a bloated inefficient civil service on the NDP's lack of funds for infrastructure. Agriculture does provide to the public funds.

So what is it comrade Don, does agriculture provide to public funds, or is it a drain on tax dollars, like a government paycheck?

I have a question for Maryjane? Where does she think the food she eats everyday comes from? Quess what it must be that dreaded farm sector or mayby it's just magically appears in the grocery stores. Everytime a farmer seed acrop he is taking a hugh risk and in Canada particularly in Saskatchewan for very little reward. On top of that they carry a very heavy property tax load a large part of which goes to education. And a successfull farmers pays ever more because in many areas their property taxes are based on the production of their land.Therefore the moreproductive their land is the more property tax they pay. There an incentive for you.

Grant Devine fed the farmers so much money he almost bankrupt the province. He even got a billion from Mulroney. He wanted to distribute the provincial government among the small communities. In short, he wanted to take the province back to the 19th century. You cannot fight the worldwide natural trend toward urbanization. Devine unnaturally tried to stop a natural process. He was doomed to fail.
The NDP seem to be aware that the future is urban.
I discovered today that Saskatchewan's debt is the smallest among all the provinces, with the exception of Alberta which is a special oily case. So if Saskatchewan can be accused of wasting money you can rest assured that they waste less than anyone else.

If you want to investigate a money mystery try figuring out where all that Alberta oil and gas money is going. They have 12 billion in the Heritage fund while Norway in the same amount of time has banked 200 billion!

steve you probably have something there. I think the roads in rural Saskatchewan were actually probably better than highway # 368

steve d,

"If you want to investigate a money mystery try figuring out where all that Alberta oil and gas money is going. They have 12 billion in the Heritage fund while Norway in the same amount of time has banked 200 billion!"

Let's see if you can wrap your little socialist mind around this. Norway is a country - Alberta is a province. Alberta has to pay their money to the rest of Canada - a mafia like tribute ... Norway doesn't (because it's a country).

You can probably Google province and country and check out the difference yourself.

Claude, you are right....Maryjane is an idiot, and all she does is blab as if she knew what she was talking about...as with other bloggers you have uncovered another some little person that is a wannabe.....but does not have the intellect.....poor little girl...she must be awful lonely and with her know it all attitude i can see why....

steve you probably have something there. I think the roads in rural Saskatchewan were actually probably better in the 19th century than highway # 368 is now

So what, rita, farmers produce food. How does that justify the forced wealth distribution scheme that takes a big bite out of my paycheck.
For all the kvetching about socialism you yahoos sure demonstate little faith in the free market.

maryjane,

Are you the Rain Man?

And by the way rita, weren't you preaching the virtues of Ayn Rand and objectivism a few posts back? What would she say about you're selective socialism?

Reply to maryjane: in 2000 agriculture's gross receipts were 38.3 billion, operating expenses were 33.2 billion. I thought you said it was all done on the public teat for the 1 billion in subsidies. Sorry to burst your bubble but it looks like Agriculture is a positive contributor to the tax revenues unlike a gov't paycheck which is 100% drain on tax revenues. I don't care if you pay taxes, your paycheck originates from FREE ENTERPRISE tax dollars.
LETS NOT FORGET OUR ORIGINAL ARGUMENT IS OVER THE DEPLORABLE STATE OF HWY 368 (typical NPD tactic to try and create a diversion).

Ural
So all Alberta's money goes to the Fed's. Hmmm. I don't think so.
Try to wrap your full of excuses brain around this. Alaska has a heritage fund(they call it the Permanent Fund) of 35billion. They cut cheques to their population yearly from the interest earned. Last year they gave out cheques amounting to $845 each. They are still miles ahead of Alberta's heritage fund even though they cut cheques yearly. Some years they have gotten cheques of almost $2000! Perhaps Ralphie should send someone up there to take a few notes on how to build, manage and distribute dividends with regards to Heritage Fund money.

Don... If agriculture is so profitable, then why in the hell are you always after a handout? The fact that agriculture is profitable only makes subsidies that much more egregious. How can you call agriculture free enterprise when you have your hand in the public cookie jar from cradle to grave?
So doctors, nurses, police, teachers, corrections workers , highway workers etc. are a 100% drain on society ? If thats the case then you would have no objection to eliminating the Dept. of Agriculture . If we did that and did away with the attendant farm subsidies we could fill all the potholes in SK with gold. See, farm subsidies are highway related.

Saskatchewan Thrives but The People Like To Complain
That was the title of a piece written by the Canada West Foundation describing the the booming economy(1 billion more than forecast) and the compulsive need for residents to whine.
The writer thinks it has to do with the rural mentality of the population. How most are only a generation removed from the farm and so as the farm goes so goes the atitude.
While farming is important it is becoming less so as time goes on.
They have a report showing how the GDP of the province was higher than the Canadian average for 03 and 04. Saskatchewan is a "have" province along with Alberta and Ontario. So apparently, Saskatchewanikans(?) are complaining while raking in increasing amounts of money. I suspect with the price of oil being what it is Saskatchewan will continue to thrive.

Saskatchewan Thrives but The People Like To Complain
That was the title of a piece written by the Canada West Foundation describing the the booming economy(1 billion more than forecast) and the compulsive need for residents to whine.
The writer thinks it has to do with the rural mentality of the population. How most are only a generation removed from the farm and so as the farm goes so goes the atitude.
While farming is important it is becoming less so as time goes on.
They have a report showing how the GDP of the province was higher than the Canadian average for 03 and 04. Saskatchewan is a "have" province along with Alberta and Ontario. So apparently, Saskatchewanikans(?) are complaining while raking in increasing amounts of money. I suspect with the price of oil being what it is Saskatchewan will continue to thrive.

Saskatchewan Thrives but The People Like To Complain
That was the title of a piece written by the Canada West Foundation describing the the booming economy(1 billion more than forecast) and the compulsive need for residents to whine.
The writer thinks it has to do with the rural mentality of the population. How most are only a generation removed from the farm and so as the farm goes so goes the atitude.
While farming is important it is becoming less so as time goes on.
They have a report showing how the GDP of the province was higher than the Canadian average for 03 and 04. Saskatchewan is a "have" province along with Alberta and Ontario. So apparently, Saskatchewanikans(?) are complaining while raking in increasing amounts of money. I suspect with the price of oil being what it is Saskatchewan will continue to thrive.

Saskatchewan Thrives but The People Like To Complain
That was the title of a piece written by the Canada West Foundation describing the the booming economy(1 billion more than forecast) and the compulsive need for residents to whine.
The writer thinks it has to do with the rural mentality of the population. How most are only a generation removed from the farm and so as the farm goes so goes the atitude.
While farming is important it is becoming less so as time goes on.
They have a report showing how the GDP of the province was higher than the Canadian average for 03 and 04. Saskatchewan is a "have" province along with Alberta and Ontario. So apparently, Saskatchewanikans(?) are complaining while raking in increasing amounts of money. I suspect with the price of oil being what it is Saskatchewan will continue to thrive.

Ok steve d I think we got your point the first time...

;-)

They can,t build a divided highway to St Brieux so a bunch of farmers can work at Bourgault for 10 bucks an hour!!! move to Saskatoon or Winnipeg thats where manufacturing should be anyway

KADO: You are probably another clueless Government or union worker like Maryjane who clogs up sites like this with idiotic comments. Someone should take your computer away from you before you hurt yourself with it. People like you are why droves of Sask brightest are leaving. I hate to see the gene pool in a few 10-20 years when all that is left are knuckle draggers like you. Keep it up moron we need more good people here.

KADO you idiot....you think that because you are probably a union worker and Employees at Bourgault Ind.are not you think they make $10 pr hr.??? you must get your information from maryjane.....besides we did not ask for a "divided" highway JUST a hiway nothing more.....you and Maryjane ought to get together.....Anyway, how would profit sharing sound to you??? try Bourgault Industries ...I dont see any union shops offering that...no they want 1000$ a yr in union dues and what for??? we just want a real hiway

MaryJane. How much comes out of your pay cheque to Agriculture Subsidies? What line of work are you in? By the postings you put on here, looks like you are on the computer all day, or do you do this while sitting in an office some place? Just curious.

Taxes pay for farm subsidies. Working people pay most of the taxes. Most farmers pay very little income tax. If they are losing billions exactly how much money do farmers make? My buying power as a wage earner is at 1987 levels.

Our grid roads aren't made for semi trucks that's a big problem. A lot of old paved roads should be changed back to gravel roads. That would help.

ok4ua You sound like MaryJane in drag. From your comments I gather that you think that farmer's are not "working people" as you so aptley describe yourself. I read this and realize that you must suffer a total disconnect from reality. I assume from the way you write that you are a unionized employee that feels that he is extemely overworked and underpaid and is entitled to a very high standard of living. I have experience with uions after being forced to be a member of one as a condition of employment. I can only talk about my experience and I work in the health care field. I worked with individuals that routinely put in about 1-2 hours per day of real work and spent the rest of the day conducting personal buissness on company time. This was not an aberration, this was the norm.This is one of the reasons that health care has become so inaccessable to the ordinary person.

This brings me to another sore point. Does anyone else find it ludicrous that the Saskatoon Health District did not have the interest or resourses to help baby Paige and her family. No they had to go to the "Evil Empire" Alberta for proper care.So what would this have entailed? A pediatric consult, an MRI, a Nuclear Medicine Scan and some bloodwork and mayby some other incidental testing.

This would just have been the standard of care for a situation like this . Lets face it when a 2 year loses the ability to walk this is a serious medical emergency.

I have a few question. Who made that call to send these people away? Does Saskatchewan only have one functional or in this case nonfunctional MRI? And how come there is no money or resourses to help Paige but all of a sudden the NDP can tie up a Pediatric Oncologist for 2 weeks to cover their sorry butts? I think his time would be much better spent treating sick children.

And as far as the buying power goes have you looked at your tax bill lately? To blame farmers for this problem shows just how successfull the NDP/Librano administration hs been at deflecting the truth. I think it was the Fraser Institute(Yes another arm of that great right wing conspiracy) that published the fact that Candians on average pay more in taxes than they spend on all their basic need combined. Therein lies the problem not a few measly subsidies to hardworking farmer.

Another tax fact that the general bublic is probably not aware of is that the top 10% of wage earners pay over 50% of the taxes in this country.

Another question. How many sick children could be properly treated with the taxpayer money the Dippers are using to cover their butts in this "investigation" aka whitewash?

Why has the Saskatoon Health District lost all of it's Endocronologist and again have to bailed out by the "Evil Empire" Alberta?

How many mile of road could have been paved with the money spent on that self serving(taxpayer funded) video that had to be pulled after one day because of the gross incompetence of whoever was in charge of that fiasco. Again is anyone going to lose their job over the blatant waste of taxpayer dollars? I doubt it.

One more comment then I have to stop. Mayby Alberta would pave our highways for us if we asked. They are always there with a helping hand. Lets face it good roads would make it easier for people to mave to Alberta.

Rita, I got a better idea...

Why not incorporate Sask into Alberta. Think of the benefits. No need to change licence plates, no confusion over who to cheer for at a CFL game at MacMann stadium, no need to think of leaving the homestead for greener pastures.

While we're at it, Southern BC has voiced about joining Alberta too, seeing Victoria forgets them often in budgets.

I mean seriously, why is PEI a province?

But this is a pipe dream. Too much pride on Saskatchewan's part. Hey we're sister provinces. Make Lloydminister the captial.

Speaking of Lloyd, has anyone seen the glaring difference from one side of the street to the other?

Hmmm.

I grew up in rural Sask. I have heard nothing but whining from farmers for 50 years. Good times bad times all times. Devine started this new trend that us city folks don't like farmers. That's not true. We just wonder what they want. It's always billions. Every damn year. The federal gov't should pay them not the province. Devine and the Sask Party are all farmers.Why would I believe anything they say. Working people across Canada live on a salary that is 1987 in spending power.

Mur... very good questions, not that it's any of your business, but I'll answer them anyway. I work in the private sector,blue collar, shift, 4 on, 4 off.
How much comes out of my paycheck? That's hard to calculate accurately, but certainly more than $1000.00 per year. And like ok4u, I have lived in rural SK farm country for all but 5 yrs. of my life, have heard
the tired rhetoric all my life and know the dusty old farmer jive for the lie that it is.
And Rita, you had have yet to reconcile your endorsment of Rand's approach to capitalism on the one hand, and your endorsment of confiscatory socialist distribution of wealth when it comes to ag subsidies. But don't let it get you down, you're in good company, I have yet to encounter a right-winger who is not completely hypocritical on this issue.

I think farmers live a priviledged life and it's hard for them to comprehend what it's like to live on a fixed income without all kinds of write offs. Some of my best friends are farmers or come from a farm background. My friends get literaly thousands of dollars from their farmer parents. I never had that as a young man. And I mean thousands. Most farm kids grew up with this I didn't. I watch Don McMorris on TV and wonder what's his angle. I know his family. They are super rich. That's why I don't support the Sask Party they do not represent the majority. Only farmers. They make no bones about it.

I honestly don't remember commenting on farm subsidies one way or the other. Mayby I'm getting demented. I don't know enough the subject to have an opinion. I just know that farmers are not single handedly responsible for all that ails Saskatchewan and Canada. If farming is such a priveledged life why are farming bailing out at an increasing rapid rate? It's because they're tired of working for nothing , plain and simple.The fact speak for themselves. Mayby there is someone out there who has the figure farm subsidies and then mayby they could compare them to the subsidies awared to liberal friendly firms like Bombardier.

Most farm kids don't want to farm. They want to sell it,buy a house and get out of debt. My friends don't want to farm,they may have some lean years. And if they do farm they don't want second jobs. So that's taxpayer's fault? Or the government's fault? You can't artificially bolster farming. It goes in trends. I think grain farming is suffering not all farming. You can't favour farming or labour you have to balance it out. But I sure as hell don't believe the Sask/Tory party. The Tories devided us and the SaskaTory pary continues the same trend. I think their doom and gloom rhtoric drives people out and make farm kids wanting not to farm. That's all I hear from Brad Wall is how rotten Sask is. I think they're rotten.

It seems to me that all this was about was the frustration of a business community based in Rural Sask. demanding that they be treated fairly with basic infrasture(not a divide highway :Moron Kado) . They produce over a 100 million of goods shipped all over the world with millions of spin off and taxes. In Alberta and the US these people are supported. In Sask. they are attacked by leftist who feel powerless and frustrated by their own lack of capabilty and inititive. Maryjane and Ok4ua and Kado you know I am right don't you. What a sad spectical you three are I have seen people like you many times and I know your jealousies and envies are eating you from the inside out. You can do nothing better than blame farmer's or farm subsidies for your pathetic lives. Keep it up though because we need more people and their wealth here in Alberta. All that will be left in Sask. will be the NDP in 10-20 years with a "Rainman" gene pool.

One more comment. The USA thinks our farmers are already subsidized by the CWB. So all you pro-americans on this Tory blog who's telling the truth?

Rita... When you ask " Where does maryjane think the food she eats everyday comes from?", it certainly sounds like you're defending the status quo as far as sibsidies are concerned, as this is a stock response from the farm subsidy lobby.
By the same token, I never said farmers are responsible for what ails SK and Canada. I said farm SUBSIDIES are a big part of why we don't have the resources as a province to properly fund real infrastructure needs, such as a decent southern access to St. Brieux.
and Albertaman... well, you sure sound like you're from the faculty of Harvard, but I'll respond anyway. What is leftist about wanting to keep the fruits of my labour and spend it as I see fit? You right-wing fundamentalists are always going on about choice: in health care, in education,etc. Well, I want some choice too.

MJ
Farm susidies must stop. Farmers in Saskatchewan should not have been allowed to pay 32% of the education property tax for the last 40 years when they were only 3% of the population in SasWkatchewan.
Because the agifood and agriculture industry creates 1 out of every 8 jobs in Canada and gives us such cheap food we should cut the bastards off and import all of our food.
That will learn them.
When 1 farmer alone can pay $15,000 road tax for tractor diesel on his farm he doesn't deserve a road.
Agriculture is bigger than the auto industry in canada but producing cars is more important than food and deserves more susidies as those jobs pay way more. Give more to the big three auto makers so they can buy more parts from Belinda and close more plants.
Those darn farmers are always using their sick days right after an EDO and taking long coffee breaks when it rains.
And those darned American farmers know what their price is before they plant so our farms should be moved to the States

MJ: You really have this "hate the farmer" thing down pat. Do you have the same hate for the "Aboriginal" subsidy of over 6billion a year, or the same hate for Bombardier. How bout hate for the subsidy for the Melfort Saw Mill of almost a billion. "Spudco". Calm down, your blood pressure must be really boiling these days.
Mur.

Farming makes up 8% of our GNP. It's very over rated. Farmers and the Sask party think they are more important than they are. The NDP still kiss ass the farm community they just won't give them a billion dollars. I see the problem. Last year a farmer made 250,000.00 gross, this he made 200,000.00 gross,he lost 50,000.00. Right? Now look at a working stiff public or private. He or she got a 2% raise,the cost of living went up 4% to 6% he's lost 2%to4% and this has been going on for 20 years of losses. That's 40% to 80% or more loss over 20 years. And you know what? No one gives a damn. My costs go up too. I think farmers mislead the public about their importance and real income they have. Are they as crooked as the Tories or the Sask Party? Why should I believe them. I want to know the average gross income of a farm of 3 sections. You know what public servants make I want to know what the other public work force gets............that is the small and very greedy farmer sector. Also tell farmers to quit wrecking our roads with their semi trucks. Grid roads can't take it.

Where's the beef??!! At the rate Sask is going we'll have as much surplus/heritage fund as Alberta. Give us good Gov't for the next 10 years. Not the Saskatory party either.

So what scott, farmers own property but you don't want to pay property tax?
The Ag industry would still exist without subsidies. Cheap food and the cheap food policy are part of the dusty old farmer myth. There ain't no cheap food policy and food ain't cheap for the majority of working Canadians.
Farmers don't pay any provincial tax on farm diesel.
Try as I might, I couldn't find a Dept. of Auto Manufacturing, either federally or provincially, nor any mention of a nisa, grip, cais or aida program for auto workers, nor any evidence that auto workers get a 10% discount on their vehicle insurance for no other reason than they happen to be auto workers.
You are master of your fate and captain of your soul, by all means move wherever you desire, just don't expect me to subsidize your trip.

How do the Tories lose? They have all TV stations,Global and CTV pulling for them. They have the national Post ,The Leader Post,980 CJME,620 CKCK. What have the NDP got? People that's all. CBC is a Liberal station.
But that's fair,right? I can't worry about roads that Semi Trucks have wrecked. I pay 2250.00 a years taxes on a pie shaped lot w/garage. Do the farmers help me? No. Fix your damn roads and be quiet. Put weight limits on them. My streets are shot too. You farmers are a selfish lot. You don't want to pay for anything. You even get a GST rebate. Only poor people in the city get that. You make me sick.

I guess the fear loathing and envy that Gormley often talks about is evident in this discussion. I guess it's typical of socialists to worry that someone is getting something more than they are. I guess the 6 million Saskatoon got from the provincial government doesn't really count as a subsidy or favoritism while rural Saskatchewn has to drive on cow trails. If your steets are that bad, maybe that's where the money should have been spent.

Only poor rural folks get GST rebates too. Farmers get GST credits on goods and sevices purchased for business use, the same as ANY business in Canada no matter where they are located. Also, as with any other business, we can deduct business puchases from our income taxes. We get no special treatment on taxes.

As for property taxes, last year in this area we paid about $9 per acre,($18,000 on a 2000 acre farm)$6-7 of which are education taxes. Most of the rest went to fixing municipal roads. By the way, if we stop driving semi truck, how do you expect products to get to market?

I seems to me that the city folks are the real winers in this dicussion, all we asked for were decent roads, it's the fear loathing and envyers that started on farm subsidies.

MJ
Farmers do pay a federal fuel tax on farm diesel.
When the feds finally sent some federal fuel tax to the provinces the dippers here decided it is to go to environmentally sustainable projects.
In Eston they are switching to a variable speed motor on the ice plant to save maybe $600 a year of power. The rosd to Eston is so bad is is dangerous to drive to the rink. This shows where this preachers priorities lie.
If you want to drive on good smoth roads get a rural grid map and drive the grids paid and maintained by farm municipal taxes. You can fly on them with no fear of potholes.
What does a farm gross income show. If a farmer could keep his gross he would be rich but he has to pay his expenses. Net income is what you want.
MJ has his priorities to cause a rift between rural and urban people and maybe it is time to visit a farm during his holidays and see what it is like.
The five hundred jobs in St Brieux are a credit to that thriving community and is basically in rural Sask because they need workers not union slackers.
What a shining example of a hard woking family that has flourished with in this communist province.

ok4ua said: "How do the Tories lose? They have all TV stations,Global and CTV pulling for them."

You really should put some smilies after a sentence like that, so that we know you're joking around.. Otherwise, some humourless types might not realize you're joking, and mistake you for an idiot.

:)

Lyle...No special treatment on taxes? "Farmers in aggregate pay approximately 10% of their income in tax. The rate for the general population is in the 16-18% range." Western Producer May 02 '02
The capital gains exemtion in 2002 cost the federal gov't. $225 million.
It is quite astonishing how the subsidy cycle of dependence has so deeply engrained the sense of entitlement on the lyles and murs of the world. You could have decent roads, lower taxes, no provincial debt, maybe even ala Ralph bucks rebates if we only stopped the insanity of cradle to grave farm subsidies.

Scott... when you said " when 1 farmer alone can pay $15,000.00 road tax for tractor diesel" you are talking provicial taxes and jurisdiction. I should have said the lyles, murs and scotts of the world.

Maryjane, I'm not sure where you get 10% from but that has not been my experience. I am taxed at the same rate as everyone else. I have benefitted very little from subsidies. The one year I did qualify for a payment, I got $12,000 less than I would have in any other province because the provincial government did not kick in their share. That is why I rented my land out this year and will be checking out things in Alberta after I finish helping a neighbor seed his crop.

By the way, to a farmer, capital gains tax is nothing less than a tax on inflation. And I don't know where the Western producer got those numbers unless whoever figured this out did not include legitimate expenses.

I wonder what the socialists would say if American Corporations would start buying land that nobody is interested in farming. I think they would say "oh the government should do something". I have never met a socialist that didn't hate Americans.

Lyle... The article is titled"Farmers have advantage, MP's told", subtitled "Farm sector taxation system 'very generous'" It makes interesting reading and you can bet everything is taken into account, as the info was revealed by Len Farber, general director for legislation in the finance dept.'s tax policy branch to the
HofC's Ag commitee.
http://www.producer.com/articles/20020502/news/
20020502news23a.html
And capital gains are income, not inflation.

A lot of Canadians are fed up with the USA. We are nothing but a cheap source of natural resources. "Smart" realize this. You Tories like to bask in the glow of the USA. Keep kissassing the states,they like that. We were asked to step down from the fore front of Kyoto accord because we're doing what the States tells us to do. We're not independant anymore. By the time Fehr Harper is finished with us we'll 20 years behind all of Europe with Kyoto. We're so SMRT..........smart. You stupid tories,how did you get elected.

Sorry mj, that article was not available when I tried to access it, but I can only conclude that someone tried to twist things around to mislead parlimentarians and people like you. For example,if the percentage is figured in agrigate meaning total income, it is figured out including the personal exemption, meaning that farmers paid a lower percentage because they had a lower income. If you don't understand this, take an accounting course. If you still don't believe that farmers are taxed at the same rate as everyone else, call revenue canada.

The article is probably behind a subscriber wall. Anyone with a subscription can access it.In the article, Conservative MP Rick Borotsik responded to the information:"I personally believe the agriculture industry is treated better than other business sectors and I don't think even the agricultural community would disagree." You're the one in need of an accounting course.

I did find the article and stand by my earlier analysis. They did not tell the whole story. The only part of that article that I would agree with is the part about accrual vs cash. I believe the reason that farmers are allowed to use the cash system is because it allows them to level out their income from year to year because of their vulnerability to the weather and markets. As for paying taxes, I bet I paid more last year in total taxes between property tax fuel tax PST etc. than the average Joe six pack paid in total taxes even though I lost $50,000. Enough said.

Lyle: I wouldn't waste my breath on people like MJ and OK4. I checked out other disscussions to see if there was a pattern and sure enough MJ horsehooey is spattered throughout. Unlike the rest of us who only join these disccsions once in the blue moon and only to disscuss something we see as important MJ and OK spend their time spewing their on a full time basis. MJ is a government worker who spends her time writing verbal vomit on the taxpayer's ticket. By the MJ I am self employed so this is my dime not the taxpayer's.