As a pro-legalization member, I must say Emery is a wingbat. Unfortunately too many people follow him, and in turn make the rest of us look bad. I have been using it since high school, and I feel the anti-pot claims are false, however I don't consider it to be that big of an issue, given the extent of poverty in society, as well as the large amount of harder drug abuse which should be dealt with first.

I don't think there is an organized advocacy group at all. I think there is a splintered few speaking up, but no real plan or tactical base. But then, I've never searched for one, maybe they're just really bad at PR.

I think Marc Emery should not be deported to the US for breaking a US law without ever setting foot on US soil to do so. If the Canadian government allows that, then will Fulan Gong members who speak out from here about China likewise be deported to stand trial there, for something legal to do here?

And since Canada says Marc is also breaking Canadian law, why haven't they arrested him long ago? He has been very public about his activities. He lists his occuption as "vendor of marijuana seeds," he has lit up in front of multiple police stations in direct view of police and media.

My theory is, that the police are afraid of Marc's case goes before a Canadian judge, the marijuana laws might actually be struck down. So they selectively prosecute those who don't have the platform Marc does to affect change.

If he is breaking Canadian law, Canada should arrest him. Then there's another law that says if he is arrested in Canada on the same charge, he cannot be extradited to another country until he is put through the Canadian legal system. This one really scares some people in power, or Marc would be in a Canadian jail right now, safe from deportation.

If Marc Emery wasn't such an dis-likable personality to the powers that be, we'd be seriously thinking about this as a sovereignty issue. Like him or not, he is a Canadian and should be given full protection by the Canadian government in regards to being prosecuted in a foreign land for activities that took place in Canada. Activities that are obviously not important enough for a Canadian police force to lay charges on.

I am not in any pro-marijuana group, but I would like to add that I completely disagree with any form of violent protest.

Good God, their best argument is that marijuana makes you less violent in society. Particularly in relationship to alcohol.

The problem with the left today is that they want their cake and want to eat it to. I could care less if someone smokes their brain to death in the privacy of their own home -so long as my hard-earned tax dollars don't go to supporting such lazy asses!!!! But therein lies the problem - the Liberals and NDP believe the "rich" should be taxed to death to allow lazy ass, pot smoking communists do whatever they want.

"I think Marc Emery should not be deported to the US for breaking a US law without ever setting foot on US soil to do so"

Kyla, extradition to the US from Canada or from Canada to the US under such circumstances occurs regularly. If I, from Canada, were to arrange by telephone for a person to be assaulted in, say, Los Angeles, I would be liable to extradition to the US to face trial in that jurisdiction, even though I had never set foot in the US.

Likewise, if an American, from the US, arranged for a third party to transport a load of cocaine into Canada, he would be liable to prosecution in Canada for a charge of importation of narcotics (he's a party to the offence). Or, also a charge in the US for exportation of a Narcotic.

The fact is, Canadian police have experienced overly lenient courts for much more serious drug charges, and it is safe to say they have not been inclined to expend resources for a matter (Emery) that they know the courts here would not take very seriously.

Emery knowingly exported seeds to US customers (some say 80 percent of his business went to the US). In fact he openly bragged about it.

Moral: Don't do the crime unless you are prepared to do the time.

First, Emery is not Nelson Mandela, his imprisonment will not have the impact he delusionally seems to think it will. He'll just be another addict/pusher making his way through the criminal justice system.

Second, if these people are seriously thinking about using terrorist tactics to force the decriminalization of marijuana then I'd say that marijuana isn't effectively distracting them from their psychological/emotional problems any more. Time to move on to some harder drugs folks.

These people forget that we no longer have a liberal govt, who stayed in power by allowing idiots to smoke their brains out. MJ will not be legalized anytime soon. It will take time for all the liberal judges to get the message-minimum sentences and hard time. I agree putting Marc on trial would lead to the SC and out liberal judges would give in.

Here's another legal consideration. (I sent an email with this question to a Vancouver newspaper that had printed what appeared to me to be an adulatory article on Embry, plus the obligatory US-bashing. It was not answered.)

Besides the obvious illegality of trafficing in marijuana, leaves or seeds, there IS another significant legal consideration.

Namely income tax evasion.

How does a professional marijuana pusher report his income and pay income taxes?

Does he put "Marijuana retail business" on his income tax forms?

Does he even pay Canadian income taxes at all?

A very pertinent historical note: For all the publicity, The Untouchables were NEVER able to nail Al Capone for any of his murders, bootlegging, other illegal activities.

It took Internal Revenue Service ACCOUNTANTS to nail him for income tax evasion.

Capone went to Alcatraz, not for his many murders, etc., but for income tax evasion.

The moral is that wherever there's a big enough cash flow, there are inevitably some sort of records and other evidence, direct or indirect, that show the existence of that cash flow.

I haven't seen this point raised in any of the articles on Embry or other marijuana gangsters.

What do you think, folks? Is Embry paying his share of income taxes, or being the parasite he is, you are paying his share along with yours?

Comments?

The incredible irony is that, under the former government's decriminalization proposal, marihuana enforcement would have increased dramatically. Currently, if police encounter someone with a small quantity of pot, they generally just seize it, because laying a criminal charge involves paperwork, court brief, attending court etcetcetc. It's just not worth the time and effort.

Under the decriminalization proposal, possession would have merely involved a traffic ticket-style process, and would clearly have been used frequently.

That's what amused me about the decriminalization advocates...they had NO idea what they were asking for...maybe they were doing more smoking than thinking...

a suicide bomber, for pot?
well this was in TorStar, so maybe it's somebodies wet dream.

how about that character the "bounty hunter" from Hawaii, throw Mark in the trunk of his car and drive him to Bellingham for the day.... "hey Mark wake-up, you're gonna be a martyr"

Marc Emery "logic"is so typical of long time pot users, totally illogical.
No he shouldn't be deported to the U.S. The guy is not an international terrorist, just a a pothead with delusions of grandeur. The U.S. now, is becoming quite obsessive about drug infractions, and can't seem to differentiate between potheads and hard core heroin/cocaine/crack/ecstasy users or sellers.
Kyla: "organized" and pot use don't make a vry good fit, the biggest problem with heavy pot use is short term memory loss, lethargy, confusion.
I often tell dope smokers who are advocating legalisation not to push too hard, they might get their wish. The reality of legalised pot would be somewhat different than their blissfully utopian view. Think strict regulation , just like alcohol, sales only through licenced vendors, heavy taxes, showing id., marketing boards, etc.
BTW, pot use in industry is a lot bigger problem than the public is aware of, I couldn't count the number of occasions on which I've seen young guys smoke up before commencing work.
As for the "suicide bomber", he'd probably forget to put the dynamite UNDER his clothing.
Now, before anyone gets too upset by my remarks, we should remember that 2 of North America's finest leaders ever, Bill Clinton, and Kim Campbell, both admitted to "experimenting with marijuana in college, although I never inhaled".
(See previous comment on memory loss, etc.)

"This is your brain:). This is your brain on drugs:( !! End of story.

I don't see what the flap about legalizing pot is about. I think the pot industry is just fine the way it is. Let me list the reasons why.

- There is no problem getting it ask any high school or college kid

- The quality is good because the government isn't controlling quality

- It's competitively priced since there is competition in that market

- It's efficiently brought to you with perhaps only one middle man rather than the layers of beaurocatic grab that legalization would bring on

- The cops don't bother anyone much about it anymore since jail and even fines are no longer fair play in our lawyer system

- The economy is benefiting greatly since there are no taxes being levied on any of it ... not even the GST

- There are countless marginal people getting by in this industry where they might otherwise be on welfare.

- By keeping it under the table, we don't piss off our great southern neighbor and that's good

- We also allow people to indulge anonymously and that's good too

I guess people like Marc Emery can't keep it to themselves. It's like people who can't keep their sex lives private either. Perhaps it's is some form of boring exhibitionism. Who knows?

Maybe Marc should consider simply doing a pot pride parade every year like the gays do. That will make it more mainstream regardless of how objectionable it might be to many.

Why do I have Sean Penn's character from Fast Times at Ridgemont High going 'Dude! Where's my detonator?' running through my mind now?

Where is the mental floss?

Marijuana should be legalized, due to the reasons outlined above. It would be taxed, regulated and there would be more police/court resources for investigating gun crime and hard drugs...plus more room in our jails for those doing these crimes to serve minimum sentences.

Legalizing pot is exactly what the hells angels and other types of criminals do not want. If people want to use it, it is no worse than alcoholism and chain smoking.

The hundreds of millions spent on marijuana prohibition in North America could have been better spent or left in our own pockets.

That said the statements by Emery et al are ludicrous, but an alcoholic's rants can be just as ridiculous. The difference is, the alcoholic has no reason to fancy himself a martyr, and we don't consider re-criminalization alcohol upon hearing him.

"Cannibis culture" - it's all part of Canada's multicultural mosaic and therefore needs Charter protection or some ridiculous thing. Oh please.

I have to wonder how many here condemning the use of weed enjoy the odd cocktail.Despite the rights' propoganda efforts to differentiate alcohol from drugs,alcohol is indeed a DRUG!
I see no one here demanding this horrible,horrible scurge be banned from society.Calling all pot smokers"lazy losers"is like calling all drinkers abusive alcoholics or all gamblers irresponsible family destroyers .Where is the balanced and fair debate on this topic?...Hypocrites!
BTW,Emery KNOWINGLY broke US laws for nothing more noble than profit.I will shed no tears for him.

Duke:

"Maybe Marc should consider simply doing a pot pride parade every year like the gays do"

Sadly thats a good idea. Public decency laws sure aren't enforced at gay pride parades, so the cops couldn't in good conscience arrest anyone for sparking one up!

Personally, I hope that ten of them do chain themselves to Layton. Imagine how priceless that would be.

proud infidel"

"Despite the rights' propoganda efforts to differentiate alcohol from drugs,alcohol is indeed a DRUG!"

Ya those of us on the right are really working overtime on that. Those beer commercials are part of the vast right-wing conspiracy to placate the masses. shhh.

"Emery KNOWINGLY broke US laws for nothing more noble than profit.I will shed no tears for him"

Nice to see you sticking to your communist values, free weed for all!

I think Marc Emery should probably buck up and do the right thing because I think the crime he committed in America is a federal crime and he will do his time in the US federal prison system which is often referred to as Club Fed (think Martha Stewart) where the prison population does not include a lot of violent criminals (like the state or city or county jails do).

In my understanding if he does a jail sentence in Canada he will be with a prison population which includes the violent offenders.

Tough call though because I think he likely would do a much longer sentence in the USA.

Why he thought it was a good plan to break Canadian and USA law can probably be attributed to magical thinking which a jail term with no daily dose may or may not cure.-sarc-

This comment is only addressing pot smokers, I do not have anything good to say about chemical users. I would just like to add that in the days gone by "early and late 80's" that marijuana, when grown in Canada "BC, AB & Sask." was grown in the wild bush and gardens with very minumal fertilizers. In the 90's it was cloning and grown in the front room in your house. Now its "grow houses, apartments and quansets. My point being that the more hidden it becomes the more dangerous it becomes. Just where do they think the chemicals used to grow this weed is ending up. If everybody that wanted to smoke marijuana could grow it in a planter beside there front window, how long do you think the pot pusher would last. As of addressing people whom call these people lazy, I think they work as hard as the next Canadian and pay as much taxs. As for the people that smoke and drink at work, I believe in random testing, if you are caught you are fired, no company should have to send you to rehabilatation, all the time you have spent on the job is wasted "no resume".
As for employer that are doing the same thing as there employees good luck when the jobs are a lot less. Merle

Being a recovering alcoholic, I, in no way, wish to make light of this issue. There should be serious debate, and I believe it is not really connected with politics, whether conservative, liberal, or otherwise.

Why, given it's timeliness, was Rush Limbaugh's recent (and ongoing) brush with drugs not also mentioned? He has had a strict view in the past:

"Drug use, some might say, is destroying this country. And we have laws against selling drugs, pushing drugs, using drugs, importing drugs. ... And so if people are violating the law by doing drugs, they ought to be accused and they ought to be convicted and they ought to be sent up," Limbaugh said on his short-lived television show on Oct. 5, 1995.>>

Limbaugh Reaches Deal in Drug Fraud Case

I believe it would be useful to ensure the full extent of this issue is explored. I, and many professionals in the field, view drug and alcohol addiction as forms of a social disease. It is not a laughing matter, especially when one is directly and profoundly affected.

Well, interesting.

(A) Prohibition costs lots of tax dollars, and, as I am sure you are aware, taxation is theft, so why do you support the government stealing from people in order to steal people's flowers (marijuana)?

(B) Does Papa Government have a right to tell you what you can and cannot eat? If they said "no coffee" tomorrow how many of you would listen "just because it's the law"?

(C) Marc Emery, to the best of my knowledge, has paid income tax on his seed revenues---thinly veiled comparisons to Al Capone are ludicrous. There are probably seeds for more dangerous plants sold at Art Knapp.

Ryan.....The fact remains the vast destructiveness of alcohol continues,sponsored and protected by the government,while the wild rhetoric about the "evils" of pot is freely thrown about.It is indeed a HARSH reality,I sympathize and understand you would rather ignore this than face it,especially since this type of willful misdirection is normally a Liberal trait.
I don't expect you to be able to comprehend or accept there are other POVs than yours,but maybe in the future,you can try a more intelligent form of response.
BTW,if you think calling me a commie is either clever,accurate or hurtful,you are sadly mistaken.I am just disappointed you could not contribute anything more worthwhile.

Madre mio, el poto, el coco, el hero..., si. Crapo your brains out. +

Pot, cocaine and heroin soon to be legal in Mexico

Possessing marijuana, cocaine and even heroin will no longer be a crime in Mexico if the drugs are carried in small amounts for personal use, under legislation passed by the Mexican Congress +
via nealenews

Aside from the frivolous pot item ...

We have serious drug problems because people are too stupid to know that it's bad for them.

We have serious health care problems because people are too stupid to know what's good for them

Why is our society so stupid? Because most of us went to government schools where idiots like Jinny Sims (head of teachers union BC) won't allow anyone to actually learn anything or be stressed by having to take a test.

This is backed by doting parents who want their children teated like little messiahs.

We all gets what we deserves.

The most abundant commodity we have in Canada is without a doubt ... stupidity.

It should be noted that in my school district there was a Professional Development day on Friday 28th where (according on teacher friend of mine in that district) the teachers were being treated to by having to listen to some Metis Indians whine all day about how bad they had it at the residential schools. What has that got to do with my kids education?

Can anyone tell me why my tax dollars are being spent this way. And why are the kids out of school so this can take place.

Have we not heard enough about the po' natives on the media and from the do gooders in government?

And are the po' natives at this moment indulging in terrorist activities in Southern Ontario.

Canada is slowly becoming less tolerant of the Muslims in our midst because we fear them and we know they are generally up to no good.

The same can now be said about the po' natives in our country. We need to stop tolerating their victim-hood claims and treat them like responsible adults.

Endless entitlement is a drug too.

Dave,

Yes Marc Emery is paying his income tax and putting "Marijuana Seed Seller" on his income tax forms. He has claimed to have paid over $0.5 million in taxes to the federal government.

I imagine the Hells Angels don't pay tax and are a lot more violent.

Sadly, this thread illustrates a problem with the "vocal right wing" in Canada when it comes to drugs.

Fiscally, you have clear vision.

Socially, you're worse than the left wing you profess to hate and what's more, hypocritical. (Please, don't make us out the pothead Tory cabinet minister. You'd be surprised who it is.)

And that's why the right would rather give up $6 billion in tax revenue to "send a message" which is met with "mind your own business" by 75% of the population.

Gross misinformation, ignorance about the facts and weak ad homemin and straw men attacks are all I see in these comments.

Any of you people read Ayn Rand? Remember Howard Roarke? Remember how he didn't care what people thought about him as long as they came to see his building?

Think about that for a while and you'll see what Emery's schtick is. It's obviously working here at SDA.

What seems like a "vast left wing conspirarcy" is actually the reality that only two people have been cranking about Emery: Kate and Norm Spector.

Many Conservative voters don't support the extradition, and as loud as many here scream "drug dealer" it simply doesn't change the fact of the matter that this is a political prosecution and a serious soverignty issue.

And make no mistake -- Harper's people have been hearing it from the base, including Granny who has been smoking or eating pot for her arthritis and has 10 plants in her basement.

Speaking of Layton, didn't he want to ban trans fats?? He's a hypocrite.
Trans fats, caffeine, prozac, diet pills, marijuana, alcohol.... it should all be legal.

proud infidel:

Ouch, that hurts man

Can't take a joke?

As far as pot goes; been there and back my friend, after the clouds parted (literally) I was able to arrive at my current POV.

A solution for the vices of tobacco use, drug abuse and alcohol abuse would be to deny any such user access to free medical care for any illness that is linked to their vice. Smoke until your lungs rot and drink until you're pickled, I say...but you pay your own medical expenses. You make your bed, you lie in it.

This way, everyone is free to make their own decisions and live as carefree as they wish.

Of course, any damage / injury to property / people that may result from the users actions (where influenced by the drug of choice...drunk driving, impaired driving, second-hand smoke, etc.) would need to be to the users account (fines, imprisonment, full restitution, etc.).

If you're stupid enough to harm yourself or knowingly put yourself in harm's way just for FUN (so as to exclude those who do so for the good of others, such as emergency service personnel and armed forces), then you shouldn't benefit from the tax dollars of those who are responsible adults. This could apply to so many things.

All of the above is, of course, impossible to legislate, but think of it...being responsible for the results of your own stupidity!

Thank God for small dead animals. If it didn't exist, where else could yahoos do whatever it is they do?

Well done, Kate. You certainly know how to push that yahoo button.

If it doesn't contain the weary old "If you can't do the time, don't do the crime" it ain't yahoo.

The guy was selling marijuana seeds and using the proceeds to make this country, and the US, a little more free. What kind of a crime is that, you reprehensible, nameless dickhead?

Paddy Roberts

"...If you're stupid enough to harm yourself or knowingly put yourself in harm's way just for FUN..."

Sounds good on the surface, but...

Using your logic, anyone who breaks a leg skiing, gets a hockey injury, gets injured in a car accident (after all, walking is an option), gets tennis elbow...well you get my drift...

Would save a hell of a lot of money from the healthcare budget, tho...

Oh right, Paddy...

Emery is a selfless, altruistic, clone of Mother Theresa...

Idiot.

Do we want a US style legal system in Canada do we need the DEA whose whole being is to fight the drug war in Canada telling us what to do and how to do it?

The war on drugs is a failure ruining the lives of many children who were caught with no more then a joint. This keeps them from ever getting funding for school, even if they are clean. Do we want for profit jails in Canada?

Why are so many unlikely groups calling for an end to the war on drugs?

We have educators, judges, doctors, lawyers, church
leaders and MOM all calling for and end to this racist
law that rips communities and families apart.

http://www.efsdp.org/
Educators For Sensible Drug Policy (EFSDP) strives to
bring the credibility, influence and training of the
teaching profession to drug law debate and reform.
Educators for Sensible Drug Policy is an international
organization whose current membership includes
Australia, Canada, Jamaica, Japan, New Zealand, and
the U.S. A.

http://www.leap.cc/
The mission of LEAP is to reduce the multitude of
unintended harmful consequences resulting from
fighting the war on drugs and to lessen the incidence
of death, disease, crime, and addiction by ultimately
ending drug prohibition.

http://www.judgesagainstthedrugwar.org/
For the past thirty years Judges have looked on as
America’s War on Drugs has played itself out before
their eyes. They have seen the inevitable increase in
police powers and erosion of civil rights needed to
facilitate the investigation of drug offenses. They
have witnessed the widespread, unprecedented use of
asset forfeiture. And they have been forced to impose
unjust mandatory minimum sentences.

http://christiansforcannabis.com/e107/news.php
As Christians, we need to be sure that we are making
socially responsible decisions based on true justice
concerning drug policy. It is our hope that by
providing a solid base of factual information, that
there will no longer be a 'lack of knowledge' on this
issue, and that the Christian community will promote
drug policies based on science and compassion, rather
than apathy, fear, hate and ignorance.

http://www.mamas.org/
MAMA
formed in 1982
to address the multifaceted issues of substance use,
misuse and abuse.
MAMA's approach is based on
Personal Responsibility and
Informed Decision Making,
with Respect for Human Dignity

http://www.vetsformeds.org/
Veterans for More Effective Drug Strategies favors the
return of the drug problem to the domain of the
medical profession. The 80-year old effort by law
enforcement to resolve America's drug problem has
failed and drug-related problems are growing steadily
worse. Veterans for More Effective Drug Strategies
formed as the US plans to expand our military
involvement in the Colombian drug war.

This is only one example of the increasingly
militaristic nature of drug control efforts within the
US and abroad. We call upon the men and women who have
served this country so ably in the past to once again
volunteer their service and experience to end our
foreign involvement in the drug war and to determine a
more effective drug strategy for this nation.

With all the facts on how destructive these laws are to families and children who lose their parents over a joint, not counting the money taken form our communities’ infrastructure so why don't we do something about them. Your kids can buy drugs right now easier then they can buy beer or smokes. How can we win if we drive our children away because of drugs, lock them up in cages so the outside world doesn’t harm them?
END PROHIBITION NOW,
SAVE A CHILD,
REBUILD A COMMUNITY.

The call for a safe injection site is a very good call it still doesn’t go far enough. Eight billion a year goes into this problem but it’s not helping as it should. The legality of the drugs is the main stumbling block; people who live outside the law are not likely to come forth with problems. They also have to worry about arrest all this puts strain on some and have trouble feeling leading to suicide. This wouldn’t be the case if the fear of arrest was taken out of the picture.
That eight billion would go a long way in treatment and education. The legalization of drugs would mean adding to that figure with the taxes collected. This would also bring more funds into the police department to chase down criminals that commit violent crimes. The drug unit wouldn’t be needed so all those officers could be used else where.
If we carry on the way we are going the violence we see now will be triple in ten years, then the figures will be twenty four billion with an even worse problem and many more lives lost. The drug laws came into effect as way to circumvent the constitution. Most users of cannabis were of colour and these they used as a fear tactic that their white women were in danger of coupling with the inferior races. This is still used today as most people in jail are of colour. Drugs are attractive to the poor as this is an easy way to get money and respect among their peers. Ending the drug war would release money tied up in enforcement into education.

Addiction in the community

The problem of addiction is not expanding it stays the
same, the same people. Living standards have been
linked to addiction in rats. Two groups both addicted
to morphine but living in different environments, one
group lived in the standard cage the other in a colony
similar to their natural habitat. The group living in
the cage carried on taking the morphine while the
colony wean its self off the drug and refused it after
awhile.
Take this with the way the government treats the
people on assistance and we have a large community
living like caged rats wanting the morphine to drown
out the pain and sorrow in their lives. Then we have
another arm of the government putting the poor into
smaller cages hoping to stop their addictions. So what
does our government want to do to stop addictions,
keep the rats in the cages for a longer time embedding
the addictive behavior deeper into their
subconscious?
Who are the poor? The Métis and First Nations youth
are the ones you see in the smaller cages, self
respect and pride in their community is what’s needed.
But we see hurtles along the way and it’s the policies
of the government that keeps our youth from their
rightful seats at the table we call this province. Is
this just an over sight by our government or are they
still trying to cheat the people of the land?

Study

Patricia F. Hadaway1 Bruce K. Alexander1, Robert B.
Coambs1 and Barry Beyerstein1
Department of Psychology, Simon Fraser University, V5A
1S6 Burnaby, BC, Canada

The effect of housing and gender on preference for
morphine-sucrose solutions in rats

To determine whether opiate consumption is affected
by laboratory housing, individually caged and colony
rats were given a choice between water and
progressively more palatable morphine-sucrose
solutions. The isolated rats drank significantly more
of the opiate solution, and females drank
significantly more than males. In the experimental
phase during which morphine-sucrose solution
consumption was greatest, the isolated females drank
five times as much and the isolated males sixteen
times as much morphine (mg/kg) as the colony females
and males respectively.

Duke, some excellent points at 1:47 above, but that one about keeping it under the table so as not to piss off the USA.

We do the right thing eventually in Canada. The US gets used to it in time.

Packs of 10 reefers sold through liquor stores would take the guns, B&Es, Hydro fires and thefts out of the pot trade.

It would neutralize Emery and thousands more far worse that him.

It would add an Alberta-oil like tax flow to our
national income.

It would take the kids out of the alleys and away from dealers who bounce kids up to H, crack or Xtal.

I do not have any use for pot myself, so why would I suggest such a move? Alcohol is a far more destructive drug. Controlled selling helps.

We can't agree on everything. It*s all theory until it*s actually done anyway. TG

PS. Yuppies, lawyers, stock brokers and the ambitious crowd use a lot of pot to relax or mellow out.

I used to work alongside layout artists in commercial advertising who did excellent work and arrived on time every day. Pot smokers all.

Heavy booze users never seem to do as well.

Can*t help but draw some conclusions. TG

I laughed so hard at these comments. Have any of you leftists/ neo-cons ever smoked pot? Okay… I agree that this Emery guy is obviously a little bit of a loony (not because he smokes… but he just is)… there is one on every bus! But I can tell you. I would rather have to deal with someone stoned than drunk any day! I can't believe some of the comments... did you all watch "Reefer Madness" and actually believe it? I can say that I did smoke in my teens and early 20s… it was the 70s and pretty much everyone did! I know many that still do. None of them are the welfare bums you refer to. Some of your physicians, police, teachers, and yes politician… they do it! I am now a professional in my late 40s and haven't smoked for many years (my choice) I also don't drink anymore. It is a sad statement on the intellect of our population when drug companies can sell "medicines" for made up medical conditions…i.e. give erections, grow hair, relax you. excite you, restless leg syndrome???… and they have side effects that can cause bizarre things up to and including death... But this is okay... cause the million dollar drug companies tell us it is legal and right? But you get your panties in a knot over someone having a smoke after work? Who cares if people want to smoke pot... or cigarettes, or drink, or if they are gay or own a gun. What are you... fascists? Sounds like something Hitler would have implemented! Either you fit into the socially acceptable norm (a cookie cutter society)… or we lock you up! I have real issues with some of the narrow views I am reading. I would rather be a socialist than a fascist... ANYDAY!

Why is the opposing the legalization of mild drugs a conservative value?
-Tax money is wasted on enforcement.
-Criminal organizations profit tremendously from it.
-It's cost to society is no worse (IMO far less, esp alcohol) than the cost of alcohol & tobacco.

The fact that criminals thrive on drug money is enough reason for me to see it legalized & government legislated.

Is pot a destructive drug? Compared to alcohol? Tobacco? Gambling?

I fail to understand why government can support some destructive activities & profit from them, when they ban others, allowing criminals to profit from them.

Nice to read some good common sense postings.I think the Cons Party will eventually get it too.It is the single subject I agree with the Libs(yuk)on.
Like it or not,kids are going to continue to experiment with weed,legal or not.We owe it to the following generations to keep them away from dealers trying to push some truly scary shit to get it.Let's eliminate the criminal element.

Dr. H:

Are you stoned?

Whether for or against decriminalization - the topic is about the proposed tactics these people are considering.

"I'd rather be a socialist than a fascist...ANYDAY!"

What does that have to do with anything? And why do you 'socialist' types like to spell in caps and punctuate with screamers?

Strange.

seems to be fairly consistent criminals profit from selling drugs so make it leagel they also profit from mugging armed robbery identity theft I suppose if we leagalize these little things and tax them we will all be better off

errrr...what Irwin Daisy said....

Bruce: Kinda hard to clearly enunciate an entire concept while keeping the bandwidth narrow for Kate's benefit...hence the incomplete reasoning regarding injuries resulting from fun activities. I'm pretty sure you get my point, though...I was aiming that concept at the "x-gamers" and the like...do something stupid, have to be rescued / repaired and we taxpayers get to pay for their misadventure.

But that was a side point...let 'em smoke pot if they want to, but I don't want to pay their medical bills from lung cancer and other side effects. Heck, in the current system, we'd even end up pay the bills for the cannabis suicide bombers.

If the government legalizes and stupidly gets into to the business of selling pot. I will still buy from them mom and pop operator because I support the private enterprize option every time.

The major pot market is still exporting to the I
mammoth US appetite for our great bud so that will continue and the government will not be able to get into that business unless they use the Indians. Or unless the Indians continue to use the government.

I can only say bwaahahahahaha to all of it .. it's a stupid topic to begin with.

I stand by my ealier reasons to keep it not legal.

Get it together, minions. I asked you a serious question.

t-guy,

It's not entertaining to debate with idiots. Be a good little lefty and go back to where the other pond life swim - Robert McClelland's blog.

Oh, and I guess you didn't notice your previous posts have been removed, significantly raising the intelligence level of this thread.

"seems to be fairly consistent criminals profit from selling drugs so make it leagel they also profit from mugging armed robbery identity theft I suppose if we leagalize these little things and tax them we will all be better off"

Gee, what a rebuttal. Interesting thing about your argument though, the crimes you mention are a direct affront to one's personal rights and freedoms. No one wants to legalize murder because murderers seem to get in the way of that most basic right to life...I guess you could say they cause harm to another human being.

A pot smoker...umm...well they don't kill anyone, they don't seem to cause any grievous bodily harm to anyone or even themselves...and uhh...well I guess it's just not comparable.

The income tax thing mentioned above was funny for a moment then simply disappointing. It's truly saddening to see such ignorant commentary.

Before getting to the last point, I'd also point out that if Emery is shipped off to the states for violating their federal law, he will face a sentence far greater than one he would face in Canada. If we had similar sentencing, I'm not sure there would be as much of a conflict for me but if Canada is not willing to throw away the key for a crime committed by their own citizen, they should not "solve" that problem by sending said citizen to another jurisdiction for harsher sentencing. Why not just send drug dealers to Iran or something of we want to make such odd examples of people.

Finally, Kate omitting the final two paragraphs of "Shavluk's" commentary is kind of funny. Got a vendetta of sorts Kate? Don't want to provide us with any context or what? Pot people are generally peaceful people from what I have observed and one or two wing nuts will always make odd comments to make everyone else look bad...Stockwell anyone? Nah...he has a great smile I guess.

Anyhow, I'm amazed that you don't actually see more seething anger and frustration coming out of the pro pot community. Haven't they been waiting about 80 some odd years plus to be listened to?

Emery has fans but observers may want to take note of who exactly calls him the cannabis culture leader. Often when the press attributes cannabis leadership to Emery, it's a quote from Emery himself. Aww heck, can't say the guy's too modest but he certainly thinks the role is his...whether or not that's true is open for debate I suppose but regardless, he has a number of fans and detractors alike.

Kate makes no mention of those in that same discussion thread who actually decry any retaliatory action. Even snickering a police vehicle was apparently offensive to some and received harsh condemnation...ah...but this is not included in Kate's blinding flash of stupidity.

To ask whether or not there are organizations out there which have at least severed ties with the cannabis culture “following” is a disingenuous question to say the least. Marc Emery and his following are not one and the same and in order to sever ties with such a “following” an organization would have to make the extra effort to distance themselves from any number of independent individuals claiming a particular liking for the media anointed Prince of Pot.

Cheers
Ethan

Thank God we still have alcohol. They'll never take away our alcohol. It's completely safe. It won't affect our cognitive abilities and it never makes people violent. Whew.

Maryjane 'doesn't make users violent', but it sure makes them say stupid things.

I just want to know where these people will be able to smoke the stuff. See lots of NO SMOKING signs all over, or will they soon be changed to NO SMOKING CIGARETTES, POT IS ALLOWED. If cigarettes are a drug, and smokers are addicted, where are the safe smokig sites, with free cigarettes supplied.

I just want to know where these people will be able to smoke the stuff.

Very simple. Just remember that marihuana is classd in the Federal sphere of law, and tobacco is in the provincial sphere, so "Smoke Free Ontario" laws (and other provincial equivalents) are non-applicable.

Betcha didn't know that provincial non-smoking laws coast-to-coast have no constitutional authority to ban pot smoking! I've witnessed licenced patients medicating indoors and under Federal law no one can kick them out.

Chiefs of Police have supposedly been advised of this situation by Health Canada, although in some cases it has yet to trickle down to the beat cop.

rockyt:

"Maryjane 'doesn't make users violent', but it sure makes them say stupid things."

So do some posts here at SDA.

Read OC above your comment, too.

What's more serious than pot smoking as far as cognitive abilities is the dearth of logic instruction and semantics. As we can see from this very comment thread, a majorty seem to emote instead of think.

Ethan, You jotted a lengthy comment there.

You know the logic is missing in the first paragraph.

I could not swallow it. Fix it, and I may read more, but as it stands, that first one is impossible to get past. TG

See what you started kate. everyone stoners and non stoners alike forgetting what your question was. lol

YES KATE THERE IS A SANTA
Small advocacy groups are all over the place and their all growing as more and more people fear what Harper will do if they don't speak out.
Mexico has legalized small quanities of all drugs so we have another country moving in the right direction.

LEAP, law enforcement against prohibition, has close to 10,000 ex-Police, Judges and Prosecutor's as members.
ex Seattle chief of Police Norm Stamper is doing his Book tour "BREAKING RANK" and attracting more daily to the movement. David Kirton Had Jack Cole on earlier in the year.

We also have the Saskatchewan Marijuana party registering last week. so now most provinces have a pro cannabis party plus the National Marijuana party.

Next week in Montreal the DEA invates our land so we'll see how the crowds are handled. counter conference planned for the weekend before the DEA's conference then protests during the week. Should be a good showing of the anti-prohibition movement.

See what you started kate. everyone stoners and non stoners alike forgetting what your question was. lol

YES KATE THERE IS A SANTA
Small advocacy groups are all over the place and their all growing as more and more people fear what Harper will do if they don't speak out.
Mexico has legalized small quanities of all drugs so we have another country moving in the right direction.

LEAP, law enforcement against prohibition, has close to 10,000 ex-Police, Judges and Prosecutor's as members.
ex Seattle chief of Police Norm Stamper is doing his Book tour "BREAKING RANK" and attracting more daily to the movement. David Kirton Had Jack Cole on earlier in the year.

We also have the Saskatchewan Marijuana party registering last week. so now most provinces have a pro cannabis party plus the National Marijuana party.

Next week in Montreal the DEA invates our land so we'll see how the crowds are handled. counter conference planned for the weekend before the DEA's conference then protests during the week. Should be a good showing of the anti-prohibition movement.

Hey Dr H be good little socialist and pay my rent for the next few months , would yah?

"Ethan, You jotted a lengthy comment there.

You know the logic is missing in the first paragraph.

I could not swallow it. Fix it, and I may read more, but as it stands, that first one is impossible to get past. TG "

Are you referring to the first paragraph in quotes or mine Tony Guitar? The first in quotes is from a previous poster.

If you are indeed referring to my own writing, I apologize for my lack of clarity. The previous poster had asserted that we make other crimes legal because it is often mentioned by pro cannabis activists that if we do make cannabis legal, criminals will have their life blood cut off almost immediately. Some people (Like the fellow I was quoting) believe that this is somehow another way of saying that "if we are to legalize cannabis in order to make the crime go away, why don't we legalize murder?"

The comparison is simply an odd one in my mind. On one hand, you have a marijuana smoker who is not threatening or harming anyone. Whether or not they are harming themselves is debatable to some people but what can not be denied is that a fellow enjoying his night cap does not cause any level of intolerable damage to anyone else. Were we to legalize the use of cannabis, we would not be giving anyone a free ticket to go and harm people. Were we to legalize murder, we would obviously be giving people the opportunity to freely disrupt the rights of another human being. It is simply an odd comparison to say that by legalizing the use of cannabis, we then are justifying a legal atmosphere for violent crimes or theft.

Cheers
Ethan

And how many 35 year olds are still in moms basement doing nothing? When you figure that out you will realize why we must keep dope as far away from dopes as we can. Or do you really want your children still in your basement when they turn 35?

I wonder if any of the right wing here ever asked themselves why pot is illegal. Pot was made illegal 69 years ago after being used on this planet for between 9000 and 10000 years. Pot was used for paper, clothing, sails etc. There was a time that it was law to grow pot on your farm. George Washington did.

In the 1930's Dupont Chemical invented nylon and knew that it could not compete with hemp. It just so happens that Andrew Mellon was one, the major shareholder in Dupont Chemical and two, a member of the Hoover cabinet. Mellon appointed his Cousin, Harry Anslinger as the first drug czar and he was in office for 34 tears.

Second was William Randolph Hearst, the newspaper baron, who hated Mexicans because their President had taken 800,000 acres away from him. He also in the thirties had bought huge amounts of timber land to make paper from. He didn't want to loose his investment because of the cheaper to make hemp paper, so he started a campaign to stop hemp from being grown, by having hundreds of stories written about the crazies, that is the Blacks and Hispanics attacking white women and going crazy smoking pot a la Reefer madness.

Third the pharmacuetical companies were very afraid that people would eventually figure out the medical properties of pot, and grow it in their back yards, and that it would hurt their business.

So to all of you freedom loving Conservative capitalists out there who love competetion, who believe that all people should be treated equally,
who believe in freedom to carry guns, listen to what you are saying and get on the real Conservative side and allow people to be free to smokee pot if they want.

And one last thing, of the $40,000,000,000 spent on addictions in Canada last year, 85% was spent on legal drugs, that is alcohol and tobacco. I would have no problem with pot being illegal if alcohol was too. Then when the House of Commons meets for the first time and the Speaker invites the MP's over for a drink, it would have to be catered by Tim's.

Sounds like a good idea to me, but oh thats's addictive too, maybe they should only be allowed to drink water, we wouldn't want a bunch of addicts running our country would we?

Ann Ominous..."Fiscally, you have a clear vision. Socially, you're worse than the left wing you profess to hate and what's more, hypocritical."

You are so,so wrong. The right is as muddle-headed and hyocritical fiscally as they are socially.

There was a study a few years back that suggested that people of low intelligence don't have the mental capacity to understand their own limitations.

When I read some of the comments here from pot supporters, I can't help but be reminded of it - and I wonder if long term pot use interferes with one's ability to recognize their own altered thought processes.

Marc Emery is a one-man anti-drug message, a narcissist with a persecution complex, who has compared pot use to the civil rights movement, and who believes that going to jail on behalf of a chemical intoxicant constitutes "martyrdom". And people actually endorse this moron's statements and actions.

It's tempting to ask what you're smoking. Have you lost all sense of proportion? Emery certainly has. Perhaps he was born this way - perhaps it's drug enduced. Either way,a serious advocacy movement led by sensible adults would be distancing themselves from Emery and publicly disclaiming his comments and his tactics - just out of pure damage control.

Kate there was also a study a few years ago that said that the higher your intelligence the more likely you are to smoke pot. I guess it just a question of which ones you read.

"chemical intoxicant"

Nice phrase, Kate. Every time this debate starts, I just keep thinking the same thing - it's all about getting high and there's nothing particularly noble about it. I'm speaking from some embarassingly extensive experience in the matter, and have learned that almost any human activity is more constructive or helpful than altering reality with some kind of substance, whether it's alcohol or pot. That said, I realize for many people it will be a very minor part of their life, and of little harm. Fair enough, but i think there's an awful lot of other people who would be far happier, more creative and successful if they left substances alone.
Obviously everyone has to decide for themselves where they are on the continuum of abuse, but please, don't try to pretend there's something wonderful going on with this stuff.

Even given that (a) Emery is a twit, and (b) Emery ingests THC, it is *not* logical to conclude that (c) All people who ingest THC are twits. Universal affirmatives can only be partially converted. Obvious, one would think; simply a necessary limitation of the conversion of a proposition. Unfortunately, even the simplest syllogisms cause some to flounder.

Meanwhile...

"Prohibition was introduced as a fraud; it has been nursed as a fraud. It is wrapped in the livery of Heaven, but it comes to serve the devil. It comes to regulate by law our appetites and our daily lives. It comes to tear down liberty and build up fanaticism, hypocrisy, and intolerance. It comes to confiscate by legislative decree the property of many of our fellow citizens. It comes to send spies, detectives, and informers into our homes; to have us arrested and carried before courts and condemned to fines and imprisonments. It comes to dissipate the sunlight of happiness, peace, and prosperity in which we are now living and to fill our land with alienations, estrangements, and bitterness. It comes to bring us evil-- only evil-- and that continually. Let us rise in our might as one and overwhelm it with such indignation that we shall never hear of it again as long as grass grows and water runs." --Roger Q. Mills, 1887

Kate:

"It's tempting to ask what you're smoking. Have you lost all sense of proportion?"

Are you serious??

Read your own post:

""Marijuana does not make users violent."

"If I go to jail, and I'm really well-known and, hopefully, get murdered in jail, that will serve as a form of martyrdom that every year, demonstrations, protests, bombing, various forms of violent and non-violent behaviour can be used to put forward our thing," he says."

What's your point, Kate? Are you insinuating that pot use "made" this person say what he did, and that non pot-users don't discuss violence; that somehow there is a higher ratio of pot users that discuss violence than non-users?

Ummm.. where's your perspective, Kate? This is another utterly absurd connection that you are trying to make.

Vitruvius,

I agree with you fully, if you are willing to accept that "political correctness" is a much more dangerous form of prohibition.

Hey Free anyone can buy pot right now. Its easier for kids to buy pot then it is for them to buy smokes. So if we only have licensed retailers?

Every year more people are arrested in the states for drugs and the only thing thats changed is the violence that now comes with all levels of drugs use. Jusy like there was during alcohol prohibition, the violence around alcohol decreased with the end of prohibition.

Remember the police have body armour your kids don't. Many children have been killed in the US because they were mistaken for someone else or just a stray bullet.
http://csdp.org/

“There are 100,000 total marijuana smokers in the US, and most are Negroes, Hispanics, Filipinos and entertainers, Their Satanic music, Jazz and swing result from marijuana usage. This marijuana causes white women to seek sexual relations with Negroes, entertainers and any others”
Harry Anslinger US Commissioner of Narcotics, Testify to congress on why marijuana should be made illegal, 1937.
Marijuana Tax Act, signed Aug. 2, 1937; effective Oct. 1, 1937

Addiction in the community

The problem of addiction is not expanding it stays the same, the same people. Living standards have been linked to addiction in rats. Two groups both addicted to morphine but living in different environments, one group lived in the standard cage the other in a colony similar to their natural habitat. The group living in the cage carried on taking the morphine while the colony wean its self off the drug and refused it after awhile.
Take this with the way the government treats the
people on assistance and we have a large community
living like caged rats wanting the morphine to drown out the pain and sorrow in their lives. Then we have another arm of the government putting the poor into smaller cages hoping to stop their addictions. So what does our government want to do to stop addictions, keep the rats in the cages for a longer time embedding the addictive behavior deeper into their subconscious?
Who are the poor? The Métis and First Nations youth are the ones you see in the smaller cages, self respect and pride in their community is what’s needed. But we see hurtles along the way and it’s the policies of the government that keeps our youth from their rightful seats at the table we call this province. Is this just an over sight by our government or are they still trying to cheat the people of the land?

Study

Patricia F. Hadaway1 Bruce K. Alexander1, Robert B.
Coambs1 and Barry Beyerstein1
Department of Psychology, Simon Fraser University, V5A
1S6 Burnaby, BC, Canada

The effect of housing and gender on preference for
morphine-sucrose solutions in rats

To determine whether opiate consumption is affected by laboratory housing, individually caged and colony rats were given a choice between water and progressively more palatable morphine-sucrose
solutions. The isolated rats drank significantly more of the opiate solution, and females drank
significantly more than males. In the experimental
phase during which morphine-sucrose solution
consumption was greatest, the isolated females drank five times as much and the isolated males sixteen times as much morphine (mg/kg) as the colony females and males respectively.

This law is based on race and you can see from the study what housing has to do with addictions so let generations grow up in substandard housing and have parts of your governement bring the drugs in. Great for the economy.
http://fpiarticle.blogspot.com/2006/03/truth-lies-of-911.html

Ex cop takes you through the backyard dealings of the CIA

"If we take habitual drunkards as a class, their heads and their hearts will bear an advantageous comparison with those of any other class. There seems ever to have been a proneness in the brilliant and warm-blooded to fall in to this vice. The demon of intemperance ever seems to have delighted in sucking the blood of genius and generosity."
--
Abraham Lincoln, address to the Washington Temperance Society, Springfield, Illinois, 22 February 1842

Ethan, Now you have made yourself clear. We both could not ever accept that because the crime of smoking pot becomes government regulated, that so too could the crime of murder.

You were very civil about it. Didn*t suggest I attempt to put my head in any impossible location and so debate becomes worthwhile and a pleasure.

Well put, in other words. TG

Marc Emery will be going to jail on behalf of personal liberty, not a chemical intoxicant. Liberty is indeed a civil rights issue. Harper and Bush and their small dead apologists claim personal liberty as a "conservative" value. Do you never tire of engaging in your hypocricies?

Free,

"Hey Dr H be good little socialist and pay my rent for the next few months , would yah?"

I am pretty sure your derogatory remark has nothing to do with the subject... It also lacks any constructive comment or criticism on any statement I made.

All the same... very witty (sarcasm)!

Not marc Emery

Finally... a comment I can sympathise with. Politician are just pawns to these multi millionairs. and corporate conglomerates. the Hursts, Halliburton,The Rothchilds etc. They truly rule the planet and we are just told what they want us to hear. Its all about money and world control.

Check out your history folks. These guys backed all major wars.

And how many 35 year olds are still in moms basement doing nothing? When you figure that out you will realize why we must keep dope as far away from dopes as we can. Or do you really want your children still in your basement when they turn 35?

Free, this is an absurd statement. How many who do NOT smoke pot are still in their parent's basements? Can you please tell me how your odd link between marijuana and amotivational syndrome can account for doctors, lawyers, investors, other well educated people or just the average Joe maintaining a full time job while using this substance? I know a fellow who actually maintains TWO full time jobs and he does not live in the basement of his mother or father's home, he has his own home fully paid for.

It's nice to see though that you believe the state should do your parenting for you. Have you not developed the trust that is needed by your children to justify their simply believing you when you say they should stay away from something? Or could it be that they see you spouting the same nonsense that has been spouted for the last 70+ years? Perhaps they don't believe you at all and are now considering that perhaps you're spouting nonsense about heroin as well. I don't know if you actually have kids but do you understand how the logic is applied?

Marc Emery is a one-man anti-drug message, a narcissist with a persecution complex, who has compared pot use to the civil rights movement, and who believes that going to jail on behalf of a chemical intoxicant constitutes "martyrdom".

Whether or not pot is to be considered a chemical intoxicant...well that's odd but certainly if you believe that Emery is going to jail for cannabis itself, your view is fairly warped and mal informed Kate.

Emery believes (Quite rightly in some ways so far as I am concerned) that he is facing incarceration in defence of a person's right to choose. It is unconscionable to me that our government would make something arbitrarily illegal and then prosecute individuals based on a choice they have made for themselves. It is because people are currently not allowed by the state to choose whether or not they will consume this substance that Emery and his supporters are angry.

To say he is going to jail simply for a substance is misguided, woefully uninformed and fairly misleading. I certainly do not want to see my tax dollars wasted on hours of police paperwork because they picked up a pot smoker who happened to light up in public. It is troubling to me to see the state detain some one simply because they wanted to smoke some pot. In 2004, 71% of all cannabis related arrests were for simple possession...what good does that do?

Tony guitar, it is my pleasure to be civil and accommodating where debate is concerned...though at times it becomes exceptionally difficult.

Cheers
Ethan

Ethan,

I agree on all levels. We must at all times protect our civil rights... Without that we would live in a fascist state.

fas·cism (f²sh“¹z”…m) n. 1. Often Fascism.a. A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.