Good post.

When we use the term "war", what seems to pop into most peoples minds are hollywood descriptions of WWII. Wrong.
This is a world-wide, "low intensity conflict" that has been bubbling up for years.
It's still war. Controlled, directed violence for the purpose of imposing control on other societies. There will be big battles and small personal battles, everywhere. Everything from hatchets to information to nukes will be used.

The world is stumbling slowly yet inexorably to a world government. The only thing in doubt is whether it will be a loose gaggle of relatively free societies, or the biggest dictatorship the human race has ever seen.
The choices are that stark, and it has begun. We are going to have to deal with it. We are also all combatants.
How will it all come out? Ask me again in 20 years, but I figure 60/40 chance for bad...

Good article regarding the "debate" issue. It's about time that the media starting printing more , like this. I love the question: "Where were you Jack?"

http://www.edmontonsun.com/News/Columnists/Stanway_Paul/2006/03/15/1488549.html

Right on Junker.

Tried to explain that on my little ole blog yesterday to a couple of head-in-the-sand ostriches but (as expected) it didn't work.

read Culture and Carnage- Victor Davis Hanson.

Islam is never capable of much more than drive by shootings and then run away.

Raising the bar on the west results in the two Iraqi wars and Isreal laying a licking on any comers. Soldiers of oppressed societies are not motivated even with 70 virgins waiting on the other side.( the believers in this myth tend to be simpleminded)

Oh great let's escalate this mess into an intergenerational war. In the process let's rewrite history and say that Al Qaeda and Islamic Jyhad originated in the 10th century.

Fortunately the leaders whose spin you're regurgitating have already progressed in their thinking. The Bush administration isn't interested in escalating the War on Terror any more than they already have. They're already going flat out to ratchet down this conflict while they painfuly extract themselves from the Iraq tar baby.

The article actually covered every single argument I've ever seen a troll vomit up on the topic.Impressive work!

I once worked for a man who advised me this little gem on office politics.."don't criticize something unless you have an idea of a solution yourself."

With this in mind,I have 1 question for all you self-righteous lefties who bitch about our presence in Afgan..

If we don't go directly after the terrorists themselves,what should we be doing to protect ourselves against this worldwide threat?.....Come on,we're waiting

You're right in your thinking. It's so unfortunate that we, at a glance, can't tell the good from the bad so we group them all together and don't trust/like any of them. Maybe if THEY did more to police the bad ones we could come to some sort of peace. Until such time, I'm afraid we're in for the long haul. Pity.

Jose: "...from the Iraq tar baby."

Evil is sticky, stubborn; evil answers only to overwhelming force.

Why is evil a tar baby? Where is evil? In Canada?

In Iraq? In the mind of Saddam? Where is the tar baby? +

Prime Minister Harper's whirlwind: Answering the tar baby: we will not cut and run from evil.

The Long War is a long journey. +

Harper home after whirlwind Afghan visit
Prime Minister Stephen Harper is back home after his visit to Afghanistan +
canoenews

Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said, ... +

Good comment, Mad Mike. I add to your observation... "we are also all combatants"... that we are also all targets, the terrorist's main target.

This dispicable evil selectively kills innocent civilians at work(9/11), vacationing(Bali), commuting(London & Madrid), at school(Beslan), communially(Darfur), on campus(the recent attempt at UNC), at airports(Rome & LA), at the Olympics(Munich), pizza parlours(Tel Avi).......need I go on.

It doesn't take much intelligence to connect the dots. Given time these animals will be back after perfecting a bigger and better way to kill us in larger numbers - a dirty bomb, bio-warfare, Iran's missiles? Time is on their side.

If the West doesn't get on the same page, support Bush verbally and combine forces to hunt down and kill these roaches under every rock they hide, then we are failing our each other and our children.

Find the evil tar baby: find the official position of the leftliberal/NDP/socialists.

Hint: Rchhne.ca. +

Harper gets it right
Toronto Sun - 6 hours ago
By PETER WORTHINGTON. By making his first foreign trip Afghanistan, to visit Canadian troops, Prime Minister Stephen Harper has achieved something that eluded his predecessors. He's put our troops and their ...
Canadian sacrifice praised Toronto Star
Canada to Kandahar: Errand boy Rabble.ca
googlenewscanada

maz2 "Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said, ... +"

.... Sucker!

Penny:

Thank you.

Yes we are all combatants and, perforce, all targets. Our enemies do not see any difference between military and civilian and have no interest in concepts like the Geneva Conventions.
Unfortunately, I don't think most will "get it" until bad things start happening here.
We as citizens must think to "take it personally", and it would be much better if we did sooner than later.

"It is an ideology, well funded and determined."

Is he talking about the Liberal Party?

"Just like a cancer."

Is there a difference?

"Our enemies do not see any difference between military and civilian and have no interest in concepts like the Geneva Conventions."

Not quite. They have no interest in *observing* such conventions. They have a great interest and are quite skilled in trying to get *their* enemies to abide by and be bound by them.

Well, I suppose the question is do you throw the baby our with the bathwater. If Muslims are that big a threat, then why do we continue to allow them into our countries.

Some good friends of mine are Muslim. They are good people, who have had my back on more than one occasion. Am I to judge them on the basis of the actions of Al Quida, or the Hamas?

I don't think I could do that.

That said, if the Muslim community was true to the nation, they'd out the trouble makers in recognition of the greater good.

Damned if we do, damned if we don't.

Roseberry "They have a great interest and are quite skilled in trying to get *their* enemies to abide by and be bound by them."

If that is Al Qaeda's intent then they've failed miserably.

And its not their intent. I've no doubt that Osama Bin Laden rejoices whenever he hears of US human rights abuses. He's a politician too of sorts and its a big PR victory which he no doubt enthusiasticaly exploit. But that doesn't mean excuse human rights abuses on our side nevertheless.

"roseberry"

Good point, thanks for the clarification. It's just using a perceived "weakness" on our part against us. Quite practical, really, from the viewpoint of an Islamofascist.
Further to cjunks post, my biggest worry isn't the details of how we end up fighting this. I don't fear these murderous nutbars, they just piss me off.
Our only real weakness is just how many of us in the West have no clue what Patrick Henry was talking about.
That scares me.

William,tend to agree.

But I do believe it is a Muslim created problem so the Muslims need to stand up and solve it!
So far I haven't heard shit from Muslim leaders.Where is a show of outrage against these murders committed in their name?Where is the calling of their followers to denounce these actions?I understand that recent terrorist attacks against Iraq are slowly,but finally,turning the population against the terrorists.You'd think Canadian Muslims would be ahead of them.
BTW,still waiting for someone to answer my previous post.

"Canadian Observer"

OK, I'll bite.

We have to do both.
We have to go after them in their lairs, planet-wide, with well trained soldiers. We also have to defend ourselves at home. That means coastal defence with the Navy, continental missile defence under NORAD and aggressive policing and security at home, with a foundation of a vigilant population. All without damaging our freedoms and civil liberties. Tall order.
To what extent we're willing to go will unfold with time.
It's not going to be easy. But no war worth fighting ever should be.

Canadian Observer "So far I haven't heard shit from Muslim leaders.Where is a show of outrage against these murders committed in their name?Where is the calling of their followers to denounce these actions?"

If you're curious as to what muslims are thinking or saying then why not go onto a muslim blog? Google "Blogs by iranians" there's hundreds of them.

You're in the wrong place if you want to learn something about Islam.

Jose: I've spent lots of time on Muslom blogs. They run the full spectrum, from those who advocate strong violent action against the Islamists to those who are violent Islamists themselves. There is nothing new there. Tell me, if I want to learn about leftists, should I judge them by visiting Daily Kos?

I paraphrase an old Chinese proverb (they're all old aren't they)...'when fighting the tiger never fight him in his cave (his turf)... you must draw him out to yours'.

Jose said:"You're in the wrong place if you want to learn something about Islam."

Where have you been?
I've been to London to visit the Islamist terrorist savages at their hate rallies. + Via LGF

wednesday, march 15, 2006

UK Police Arrest 5 Cartoon Jihadists

The British have arrested five of the demonstrators who took part in the astonishing display of savagery outside the Danish embassy in London last month: Five arrested over London cartoons protest. (Hat tip: Ethel.)

Five men were arrested today over their alleged role in protests outside the Danish Embassy in London last month against cartoons satirising the Prophet Muhammad.

Four of the five were held on suspicion of incitement to murder and all five are suspected of “using threatening words or written material to stir up racial hatred”.

During the demonstrations in Central London on February 3 and 4, protesters held placards threatening a repeat of the September 11 or July 7 terror attacks. Among the slogans were “Massacre those who insult Islam” and “Europe you will pay, your 9/11 will come”.

As you can see in this video, however, there were many more than five people at these hate rallies. +

Jose: One other thing. Let's not confuse "Islam" with the fanatics. The fanatics leave a very clear trail for anyone who is genuinely interested to follow. They declare their intensions loud and clear in terms that anybody can understand. Their actions are obvious and quantifiable; even though they even compete among themselves. Only those in the West who are bound by Leftist ideology that needs to reject the fanatic threat, find themselves doing intellectual gymnastics trying to explain away the Islamo-fascist reality.

Islam, in general, is ellusive though, as it has many sects, many extremes, and many geo-political influences that color it's outcomes. The way Islam is worshipped, is as much a cultural regional reality as it is global.

Canadian Observer, I think that you haven't heard anything from Muslim leaders because you're not listening. Just look, it's often in the news. If you only look for what you want to find, that's all you'll find.

Fighting terrorists in Afghanistan is only part of the story. It is important to be aware of root causes, and Canadian forces are addressing those causes by working "to ensure a systematic reconstruction of the country and to rebuild its economic, political and judicial institutions." The problems won't go away just by hunting terrorists.

There are no 'fanatics' in islam. There are only those who practice it properly and those who don't.

As long as there are people who follow Mohamet and Mohamet's Koran teaches them that islam will rule the world with sharia, those who don't want to follow Mohamet are going to have a lot of trouble.

Cjunk "find themselves doing intellectual gymnastics trying to explain away the Islamo-fascist reality. "

Rest assured that I do consider them a threat. I supported the effort in Afghanistan (although I think the US should have used more ground troops and less air power). I support our troops in Afghanistan and I think they're doing a fantastic job. I would also support a multinational force overthrowing the regime controlling Myanamar because they are evil incarnate and there's no hope of promoting democracy in that country through nonviolent means.

Where I draw the line is when certain politicians in the United States start tap dancing on the constitution to score points with the mob. I am not saying that all americans are evil. I've lived in that country for several years and call many americans friends. But its blatantly obvious that elements of the US government have overstepped the line or decency and I'm calling them on it.

I may be wrong but I call them as I see them. And for what its worth I think my point of view is already prevailing. The republican party is turning their back on the neconservative experiment at whiplash speed. I strongly suspect that the next republican presidential candidate (McCain?) will be someone who has already strongly distanced himself from the neocons to the benefit of his party and his country.

Statcan numbers tell us that there are about 50,000 more male immigrant muslims than female muslims in Canada ....350,000 vs 300,000 .. whereas all other ethnic groups are about 50/50 M/F.

Is this because male muslims have come to Canada to find a Canadian bride with whom to procreate muslim children?

Or are they the vanguard of muslims for their holy jihad?

10,000 fully armed AK47s would only cost a mere $10,000,000 petrodollars ... and such a force could easily overwhelm every police force and the military in Canada. We are just a flock of sitting Canadian geese.

World war 3 was called the "cold war" World war 4 is the religious war we call the war on terror...... We need to stop using the label "suicide bombers" and use terms like "servants of satan". Muslims go to mecca and throw stones at satan to cast him out, so Satan is something they understand. If they connect the actions of radical Muslims to the actions of Satan then a line will have been crossed in the Muslim world. No longer will they be jihadists doing the work of Allah, they will become the followers of the great satan. ( Now tat has got to hurt)..... So repeat after me.... these are not the actions of the followers of Allah. They are the actions of the servants of Satan.

OFF-TOPIC ALERT:

George Radwanski, former Lib privacy commish, just charged by RCMP in Toronto with fraud and criminal breach of trust.

Let the good times roll...

Observer "Is this because male muslims have come to Canada to find a Canadian bride with whom to procreate muslim children?"

Long term transients. The muslim cab drivers who drive me home at the end of drunken evenings are here to send money back to their families. Its not unusual for a muslim man to live in a western country and send part of his paycheck back home to support his family.

I think its a noble thing to do. These guys work their asses off to feed many mouths back home. I've had the pleasure of meeting a few of these guys and I have the utmost of respect for them.

And yes all the ones I know decry religous extremism back home.

I used Paint to transpose the head of one such man onto a terrorist firing an AK-47. He was going to Mecca to do the Hajj and then moving onwards to visit his family in India (who he is supporting financialy) I put the picture up in the company newsletter along with the announcement of his trip. All the muslim guys in the office laughed their asses off, the target of the joke most of all. I did get serious crap over it but it came from my office's Dilbertesque white christian managers.

The muslims here in the UK are fine. Granted a few of them are terrorists but where I live the real terrorists are teenage, white christians who live under the delusion that they are "gangsta"

*(The Iranians) must know everything is on the table and they must understand what that means,* US ambassador to the United Nations John Bolton told a group of visiting British politicians last week.

*We can hit different points along the line. You only have to take out one part of their nuclear operation to take the whole thing down.* In other words, he was calmly proposing an illegal attack on a sovereign state, possibly involving nuclear weapons.

http://www.straightgoods.ca/ViewNote6.cfm?REF=48

Bolton knew his words would be leaked, so maybe it was just deliberate posturing to raise the pressure on Iran. But on Sunday, addressing the American-Israeli Public Affairs Committee in Washington, Bolton repeated the threat:

*The longer we wait to confront the threat Iran poses, the harder and more intractable it will become to solve ... We must be prepared to rely on comprehensive solutions and use all the tools at our disposal to stop the Threat…* He may really mean it — and no one in the White House has told him to shut up.
By Gwynne Dyer
10words.ca TG

José:
I keep hearing "the muslims are alright". Sure they are! Then why do 40% of them want to institute shari'a in parts or all of Britain? Cheerful dispositions indeed; cheerfully lapidating the adultress or cheerfully defacing the temptress with battery acid...

For a view on how these people think try this site. Every so called news article is anti US or anti Israel. . Read some of the comments
http://www.aljazeera.com/home.asp

penny and Mad Mike? Re:

Good comment, Mad Mike. I add to your observation... "we are also all combatants"... that we are also all targets, the terrorist's main target.

I've seen it that way for a long time- recall that online Jihad manual callinf for attacks on malls, schools, and day-care centers?

My thoughts here:

-"Fire & Blood & Iron:"--

TonyGuitar,

The United States is not going to nuke Iran. Not only would it cause a lot of problems its entirely unecessary. Iran's nuclear facilities aren't made out of adamantium so conventional smart munitions will do nicely.

And they definitely don't want to roll an army into Iran and everyone knows it. If anything Iran may be sabre rattling because they know that the US is already overextended and isn't in a position to commit another 250,000 troops to yet another long term occupation.

Better to weaken the Iranian administration from within and foster a new democracy there peacefuly. It'll take longer but it will go smoother.

Jose,

A friend to everyone, you are. Friends with muslims, friends with americans and now you want to be friends with Iran.

Here is a timeline for you:
Iran builds a nuke.
Iran bombs Israel.
Jose pleads for peaceful democracy in Iran.
Hundreds of thousands of dead Israeli's.

Great plan.
enough

You know, I don't know how much is the Muslims fault on the Sharia thing... I think that special interest groups, including the Muslims, have been pandered to way too much by politicians looking for votes, and smart-ass lawyers seeing opportunities for legal fee's as a result of Charter Challenges.

I think we opened that can of worms with the Charter, and we should have closed it firmly and quickly when the Muslims first brought it up. Asswipes like Dalton Mcguinty saying "oh, lets look at it, after all we want is to be fair."

One law for everyone, don't like it, fuck-off back to the shithole you crawled out of.

I do beleive that if the Imam's really did give a shit, every time a fundamentalist terrorist recruiter or preacher reared their head, the Imams would be on the phone to imigration saying "here's another dumbfuck for the sandmonkey express".

The Imam's have a responsiblity to out these fanatics, as good citizens of Canada. Protesting is not sufficient. How does it go "Methinks thou dost protest too much". All talk, from people who bloody well know who is stirring up shit, and who is just trying to make a living and get along.

Jose, Yes you are correct. Sabre rattling is exactly it. North Korea does it regularily to bump up foreign aid or get some attention to a problem.

Iran should never get the opportunity to send any Nuke to Israel. As you mention, conventional weapons will disrupt that easily enough.

Most Iranians are well educated, very western in dress and enterprise minded. They were apathetic about voting however, { remind you of Canadians?], and so the result was a clerics victory.

Fundamentalists who stand to gain jobs and benefits never miss a chance to vote. Something like liberals eh?

What do you think of Iranian backed Muqtada Al-Sadr? Makes Saddam look civilized.
10words.ca TG

SLUNA Reply To: Hon. Lloyd Axworthy Cc: Hon. Maria Minna,

Stewart Bell's Report titled "Martin to dine with

terrorist front" ... grants and extort funds from

Canadian Tamils for their terrorist warfare to establish ...
webhome.idirect.com/~sluna/martletter.htm - 5k - +

Ex-PM PM, Jr., & the Terrorist Tamil$$$$$$$$$$
Martin "dined "with terrorist front" for $$$$$$ on May 06, 2000, in Toronto.

What was the quid pro quo? Tamil terrorists: Keep your hands off & your mouth shut. +

Tamil Tigers Targeting Canada
Josh Pringle
Wednesday, March 15, 2006

Human Rights Watch says Tamil Tigers are targeting Sri Lankan Tamils living in Canada with extortion and threats.

A report says the Tamil Tigers are raising cash for attacks in their homeland.

Human Rights Watch says Canada's 250-thousand Tamil's are pressured by bagmen to borrow money, re-mortgage their homes or even skip meals to help fund the fight for a separate Tamil state.

The former Liberal government barred Tamil Tigers from raising cash in Canada as part of anti-terrorism efforts after 9-11. +
cfra.com

If the US or the maybe if the Euros want to stop Iran getting the bomb, they won't bother targeing the nuclear facilities.

They'll take out their oil distribution choke points at the harbours & pipeline headends . . cutoff the Iranian access to foreign exchange & currency . . . no oil money = no bomb, no oil money = no funding of foreign terrorists.

Iran would have troubel feeding itself let alone being able to affore the expensive technology to build and deliver a nuke.

Tonyguitar: The Mullahs of Iran removed all moderates they disapproved of from the last election. They have that right under Iranian law. It's not apathy, its pragmatism. Moderates do not get onto the lists; and the "moderates" that do, are not really moderates in the true sense. Iran, is not a democracy.

Another thing that has change is the sniveling leftists controlling the MSM. With each passing anniversary, the media tribute to 9/11 shrinks into nothing. Some of our networks opt not to carry the Presidents special messages essentially censoring him.

You have to read military blogs and The Belmont Club for any honest facts and analysis of what is really happening in Iraq. It sure doesn't square with MSM accounts.

Terrorists aren't "insurgents" - how damn Orwellian. Calling a spade, a spade is verbotim in the press. After the Cartoon War, I've put the MSM's burqa clad appeasers and denouncers of the First Amendment on the collaborator list.

Every troll that makes an appearance here spews the same undigested MSM garbage.

We've got to cancel subscriptions, boycott sponsors, diligently fact check the MSM and flood their sites when they lie or suppress free speech with their agenda driven junk.

Better to weaken the Iranian administration from within and foster a new democracy there peacefuly. It'll take longer but it will go smoother.

Brilliant, Jose, brilliant.

Are you think of something along the lines of goodwill kiosks in Tehran, mass greeting card mailings or a NA adopt-a-mullah organization?

It will "take longer", decades maybe, long enough for them to get their nuclear bombs finished and launched. But, no one can say over our ashes that we didn't try giving it our best as social workers.

Emailed to me by a friend:

Robin Williams, wearing a shirt that says "I loveNew York" in Arabic.

You gotta love Robin Williams......
Even if he's nuts! Leave it to Robin
Williams to come up with the perfect
plan. What we need now is for our
UN Ambassador to stand up and
repeat this message.

Robin Williams's plan...(Hard to
argue with this logic!)

"I see a lot of people yelling for peace,but I have not heard of a plan for peace. So, here's one plan.

1) "The US will apologize to the world for our 'interference' in their affairs, past & present. You know: Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin, Tojo, Noriega, Milosevic, Hussein, and the rest of those 'good ole boys;'we will never 'interfere' again.

2) "We will withdraw our troops from all over the world, starting with Germany, South Korea, the Middle East, and the Philippines. They don't
want us there. We would station troops at our borders. No one allowed sneaking through holes in the fence.

3) "All illegal aliens have 90 days to get their affairs together and leave. We'll give them a free trip home. After 90 days, the remainder will
be gathered up and deported immediately, regardless of who or where they are. They're illegal!!! France will welcome them.

4) "All future visitors will be thoroughly checked and limited to 90 days unless given a special permit!!!! No one from a terrorist nation will be allowed in. If you don't like it there, change it yourself and don't hide here. Asylum would never be available to anyone. We don't need any more cab drivers or 7-11 cashiers.

5) "No foreign 'students' over age 21. The older ones are the bombers. If they don't attend classes, they get a D, and it's back home, baby.

6) "The US will make a strong effort to become self-sufficient energy-wise. This will include developing nonpolluting sources of energy, but will require temporary drilling for oil in the Alaska wilderness. The caribou will have to cope for a while.

7) "Offer Saudi Arabia and other oil-producing countries $10 a barrel for their oil. If they don't like it, we go someplace else. They can go
somewhere else to sell their production. (About a week of the wells filling up the storage sites woul d be enough.)

8) "If there is afamine or other natural catastrophe in the world, we will not 'interfere.' They can pray to Allah, or whomever, for seeds, rain, cement, or whatever
they need. Besides, most of what we give them is stolen or given to the army. The people who need it most get very little, if anything.

9) "Ship the UN Headquarters to an isolated island someplace. We don't need the spies and fair-weather friends here. Besides, the building would make a good homeless shelter or lockup for illegal aliens.

10) "All Americans must go to charm and beauty school. That way, no one can call us 'Ugly Americans' any longer. The language we speak is
ENGLISH...learn it...or LEAVE."

"Now, isn't that a winner of a plan?"

"The Statue of Liberty is no longer saying, 'Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses.' She's got a baseball bat, and she's yelling, 'You wan t a piece of me?' "

I alway's liked Robin... although I don't like the "pay $10 bucks a barrel like it or lump it" thing.

no oil money = no bomb

Fred, the Europeans won't sanction Iran. They get too much of their NG and oil from them. Russia, under Putin, is playing hardball too with the EU.

European economies grind to a halt if they disrupt Iranian oil/NG. That's one huge problem and why the US hasn't/won't get support from France and Germany. It is "all about oil" for the Europeans.

Israel is the wild card. If I had to put my kids to bed every night in Israel, wondering if they'll see morning, I'd act lethally and pre-emptively soon.

Personally, I feel the West should collectively destroy the Iranian installations first, colonize all of the ME oil fields(they haven't used the revenue wisely) and shut the whole state sponsored terrorist oil spigot off. When you declare war and lose, you get disarmed. Oil is a weapon.

Garry P:
"'when fighting the tiger never fight him in his cave (his turf)... you must draw him out to yours'."

So draw all the mean big bad tigers to the west and let 'em have it by getting them hooked on 'Donalds, crystal meth, reality tv and ebay?

Somehow I don't think the person that came up with the original piece of wisdom envisioned tigers wearing backpacks filled with explosives and bags of roofing nails.

Maybe I don't have quite the extensive background in wise sayings but I'm inclined to say it's better to deal with the tiger where it lives as opposed to where your family lives. Sure, the tiger is less inhibited in its' cave but you at least know where it is (kinda important when it comes to the backpack thing).

"Better to weaken the Iranian administration from within and foster a new democracy there peacefuly. It'll take longer but it will go smoother.

Brilliant, Jose, brilliant."....so true Penny.

Makes a lot of sense to me. A home grown organic process is the better way to go than bombing, invasion and occupation.

So draw all the mean big bad tigers to the west and let 'em have it by getting them hooked on 'Donalds, crystal meth, reality tv and ebay?

Well, Gary P, they have been in France 2-3 generations and instead of hamburgers and meth they are hooked on jihad. Your plan doesn't match reality.

Bush's plan is better - take it to their own turf. Deport them the hell out of our neighborhoods. Do we really need more fatty couch potatoes hooked on meth selling explosives on ebay?

Martin B...I was waiting for that misinterpretation...the concept is to surround the cave but don't go into it to fight the beast. Keep it contained and smoke it out. Not all wisdoms do apply, I agree, but where is the wisdom in what is happening now?? Yes, something must be done but I don't believe the naive western thought of 'injecting democracy', in our image, into this area is going to work. There are still British graves, in the area, from the attempts of many years before. But then, there is no conclusive solution.

penny:...the immigration issue is where it has to start...deportation of those here and prevention of questionable entry visas would certainly be a good starting point. As far as G. Dubya's solution...time will tell...the US should never have become involved in the middle '40's.

Stevie wonders in BC:
"A home grown organic process is the better way to go than bombing, invasion and occupation."

That's right Steve, let'em have the bomb. That's what you're really saying. An Iranian Imam has already said that the Q'uran justifies using the bomb for Jihad. With that line of thinking Tel Aviv can plan on saving some electricity because it will glow so intensely that street lamps won't be needed.

Maybe if the world waited for German youth to grow up and instill strong democratic virtues in the Third Reich everything would have turned out better for the world without fighting a major war. Possibly you could even think about planting some of B.C.'s finest in your civilian issue jackboots with your pre-selected arian neighbours...ah the bliss of ignorance!

"He said he had intended to kill the people he struck."

Islam: The Religion of the Sword & the SUV. +

Muslim: I attacked 'out of love for Allah'
WND ^ | 16 March 2006

Posted on 03/15/2006 4:32:23 PM PST by Aussie Dasher

The North Carolina Muslim who drove an SUV into a group of people at the University of North Carolina has written a letter to a local TV station saying Allah approves of such attacks.

"Allah gives permission in the Quran for the followers of Allah to attack those who have raged war against them, with the expectation of eternal paradise in case of martyrdom and/or living one's life in obedience of all of Allah's commandments found throughout the Quran's 114 chapters," wrote Mohammed Taheri-azar in a two-page letter sent to a television reporter and anchor at WTVD-TV, an ABC affiliate in Durham.

"The U.S. government is responsible for the deaths of and the torture of countless followers of Allah, my brothers and sisters. My attack on Americans at UNC-CH on March 3rd was in retaliation for similar attacks orchestrated by the U.S. government on my fellow followers of Allah in Iraq, Afghanistan, Palestine, Saudi Arabia and other Islamic territories. I did not act out of hatred for Americans, but out of love for Allah instead."

Taheri-azar, 22, was charged with nine counts of attempted murder and nine counts of assault after driving a rented Jeep Cherokee through a crowd of people in the Pit area on the Campus Hill campus March 3. Six of the victims were hospitalized.

After the attack, the UNC graduate called 911 and surrendered to police saying he wanted to "punish the government of the United States for their actions around the world." He said he had intended to kill the people he struck. +
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1597094/posts

Penny "Are you think of something along the lines of goodwill kiosks in Tehran, mass greeting card mailings or a NA adopt-a-mullah organization?"

Look at Khadafi. The main thing that's going to change Iran more than anything else is the internet. At this stage all we really have to do is keep the Iranian government from getting nuclear weapons. The writing is on the wall for them. That doesn't mean they can't hang on for another decade or so but beyond that? I don't think so.

Hey you don't have to take my word for it. That is what's going to happen. Are you are guys planning on piling into a few pick ups and overthrowing the Iranian government yourselves. There sure as heck isn't a government on this plant that wants to spend 10 years and 500 billion dollars for the priviledge of screwing up Iran even more than it is now.

Garry P.,

What's to misinterpret about "his cave (his turf)"? How can you smoke'em out if you're not at the mouth of the cave (i.e. on his turf)? Ever hear of turf growing in caves (besides the Flin Flon mine)?

Still the flaw remains in your quote. Playing "here kitty kitty" with ancient Chinese tigers and a bow 'n arrow is a totally different game than facing murderous lunatics. The tiger can only kill us one at a time. The backpack bomb toting religious fanatic sitting next to you on the bus ride home from work will kill dozens. Much better to deal with such a threat far away from our bus routes and shopping malls don't ya think? And if you're not dealing with them on your turf...might it happen on theirs?

Jose:
"At this stage all we really have to do is keep the Iranian government from getting nuclear weapons"

Right, Jose, that's all we have to do...I'm sure the Iranian leadership will give you their full cooperation. Can John Bolton buy you the plane ticket to Tehran?

Dutch come up with tolerance test - Immigration

Amsterdam — The camera focuses on two gay men kissing in a park. Later, a topless woman emerges from the sea and walks onto a crowded beach. For would-be immigrants to the Netherlands, this film is a test of their readiness to participate in the liberal Dutch culture.
If they can't stomach it, they need not apply.
Despite whether they find the film offensive, applicants must buy a copy and watch it if they hope to pass the Netherlands' new entrance examination....

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20060315.wimmig0315/BNStory/International/home

"Better to weaken the Iranian administration from within and foster a new democracy there peacefuly(sic). It'll take longer but it will go smoother."

Hmmmm...compare the above with a prophetic quote from Neville Chamberlain before Hitler began his conquest of Europe:

"We should seek by all means in our power to avoid war, by analysing possible causes, by trying to remove them, by discussion in a spirit of collaboration and good will. I cannot believe that such a programme would be rejected by the people of this country, even if it does mean the establishment of personal contact with the dictators."

Omigod...just how many Neville Chamberlain clones actually populate our country, anyway? And are ALL of them incapable of reading history, learning from it, and recognizing the reality of what we face today???

Just asking.

Cjunk, Sadly, you are correct in that Iran rigs and fiddles with elections causing moderates to be severly disanvantaged.

My point is that there is great moderate western and democratic sympathy in Iran and the west is most assuredly keeping the *friends* in mind while applying pressure to tone down the wild rantings by some of the more *Rigid* clerics. 10words.ca TG

Martin B...t'would it all be as simple as your interpretation of the issues...you must also realize the paraphrased "quote" isn't necessarily meant to be disected in literal terms...the wisdom contained therein is meant to create thought not debate...and as for "the world waiting for the German youth to instill democratic virtues in the Third Reich....."...I believe I'll just leave that one in the cave.

..."the US should never have become involved in the middle '40's."

????

You've lost me.

This article about a shooting at a Denny's restaurant in San Luis Obispo County, California is interesting and tragic.

From the article:

"Investigators believed the gunman's motive could be unrelated to the restaurant or its employees after a witness told them about something the gunman said. They declined to give details."

The article later goes on to say:

"The names of the gunman and the victims were not immediately released."

I'm curious what the name of the killer is and why police haven't released it. Are you?

penny:...the bankrupting of Britain and France, after the Second World War, caused them to have to greatly reduce their involvement in the middle east. The US decided it was in their best interests to fill the void that was going to be created. Not as simple as that but the basics are there. An execeeent read is "Churchill In America".

TG: You are most definately correct about a large portion of Iranian population being pro-western. I remember reading about a march in Tehran about 2 years ago, where one of the chants was "Bush Bush; where are you now?" The Iranian words actually made a jingle. It was a call for help, asking the question; why did you just invade Iraq, and not us?

The tragedy of a military confrontation with Iran will be that many pro-western Iranians will be forced to die for an Islamist cause they don't agree with; but then, isn't that the way it always is? How many Iraqi soldiers perished for Saddam, yet they hated him and his Baath party. It is always the "peaceful majority" that gets sucked down with the ruling evil minority. It provides the fodder.

*excellent

The US decided it was in their best interests to fill the void that was going to be created.

Halt.

DeGaul decided it was in his best interests to fill the void that was going to be created in the ME. France's vision was a pan-Arab/French coalition to counter-balance the US and Soviets. They funded Arab states heavily afer the War. They were giving Saddam his military goodies up until the end. They helped build his reactor. In the Oil for Food scandal, the French are big culprits.

The original Baathists were a Nazis creation.

The US was oil independent in the 40's. BP was a much bigger player in the Arab oil fields in that era.

All misdeeds do not originated from the US.

It seems there are still a lot of people who refuse to see the danger in Islam and their pledge to rule the world with their laws. However, just wait till some muslim sees brokemountain and is offended by the theme of it and starts riots, or some tv program advocating the gay lifestyle, or sees a ssm couple kissing in public and are offended,and demand we make this activity illegal. Then the left will want the rest of us to stand up for their lifestyle. By then it will be too late.

Nicole is steamed! She has the drive and ambition to go places too.
www.NicoleWeeks.com

I just want to [censored] scream!!!
Taliban goes to Yale

And I see I'm not the only one screamin'

Opinion Journal

You know Michelle Malkin has something to say if Ann doesn't.
TG
It*s a guy thing.

penny:...my point wasn't that all the misdeeds originated with the US...quite the contrary. My point was they should have never gone in there period. The US agreed to back the King of Saudi Arabia, if my memory serves me correctly, to also 'help' with the balancing act (time to dust off the history books, I can see). And your points aren't unfamiliar to me.

Cheers

Tony, it's a nice slap in the face to all of the kids that studied hard and played by the rules; let's not forget the parents who are finacially sacrificing for them. They aren't all well to do at Yale.

This("ex", who really knows) Taliban creep has a 4th grade education which makes him barely literate, has never renounced his Islamic attitude toward women in a recent interview. Yale is chipping in for his room/board too.

You would think the Women's Studies hags and gays would be rioting. Nope. Bush is Hitler. Gotta save energy for that perpetual protest.

The Taliban as diversity on campus? I think not.

Here's hoping that big donors shut their wallets.

Good post Kate. There is a tendency to view "war" and "peace" as dichotomous states, as though the absence of set piece clashes on a battlefield defaults to an idyllic state of prosperous existence. I'm reminded of a passage from "A Viet Cong Memoir" by Truong Nhu Tang, the former justice minister of the Viet Cong. He describes the end of open warfare and the takeover of South Vietnam by the North and the resulting communist dictatorship. "They had seen the great moment finally arrive -- Peace -- after thirty years of continuous violence and a hundred years of hated foreign domination. But peace, which they had so passionately desired brought with it not blessings but a new and even more insidious warfare, this time a warfare practiced by the liberators against their own people."
Truong eventually fled and found himself floating in the South China Sea hoping, ironically, to be picked up by an American warship. Though many, without reading the book, will try to spin this as an anti-American message, in fact Truong's message is pretty clear on the value of struggling for democratic institutions and not being blinded by Marxist propaganda.
I got a similar message from a conversation with a former Viet Cong who told me that if he had it to do over again he would have joined the U.S. Marines.
Totalitarianism in all its forms is crushing to the human spirit, and totalitarian Islamofascism will be. The world offers no easy rides in the long run, so we'd better be prepared to struggle for our democracy however imperfect it may be.

You talk about how Kate has a good post and so she does yet again.

And good comment, DrD. Very revealing, insightful, well-measured, and informative.

Thank you.

Thank you Kate. Many would want to adopt the Neville Chamberlain stance of 'peace in our time', but cannot understand that there are some out there who would never accept this.

Fortunately, our fighting men and women know better. They believe that 'universal human rights' apply to everyone, not just those under a democratic and obstensibly sensible government.

I have yet to hear one Canadian soldier question our commitment in Afghanistan. If somebody has found one, please forward to me via the link on my post as I would be very interested to hear it. If even a small handful of Canadian soldiers objected to our role in Afghanistan, I would be among the first to demand our soldiers out of the region!

Just what I thought.

The Denny's killer's name is Woods, Lawrence Woods.

Chris from Vixtoria, yes I liked the way DrD rounded that out as well.

If you were to start a thought track with Muqtada Al-Sadr and work back to the Chamberlain attitude of patient tolerance, the result would lead to a spreading loss of democracy, reason and freedom.

This commitment in Afghanistan will be lengthy and painful, but absolutly essential.

Secure sites will be required there if more moderate clerics in Iran fail to cool their hothead faction.

At the moment, cooler heads seem to be asserting themselves in Iran. Good!
10words.ca TG

First Declassified Iraq Documents Released
Associated Press | March 15, 2006 | JOHN SOLOMON,

Posted on 03/16/2006 5:04:25 AM PST by robowombat

First Declassified Iraq Documents Released

JOHN SOLOMON, Associated Press Writer

Iraqi documents collected by U.S. intelligence during the Iraq war and released by the Bush administration show Saddam Hussein's regime was monitoring reports that Iraqis and Saudis were heading to Afghanistan after the Sept. 11 attacks to fight U.S. troops.

The documents, the first of thousands expected to be declassified over the next several months, were released late Wednesday via a Pentagon Web site at the direction of National Intelligence Director John Negroponte.

Many were in Arabic — with no English translation — including one the administration said showed that Iraqi intelligence officials suspected al-Qaida members were inside Iraq in 2002.

The Pentagon Web site described that document this way: "2002 Iraqi Intelligence Correspondence concerning the presence of al-Qaida Members in Iraq. Correspondence between IRS members on a suspicion, later confirmed, of the presence of an Al-Qaeda terrorist group. Moreover, it includes photos and names." +
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1597352/posts
The declassified documents can be accessed at: http://fmso.leavenworth.army.milproducts-docex.htm

Garry P:
"t'would it all be as simple as your interpretation "

I'm a believer in "Ockham's Razor" which "simply" put is that the simplest interpretation is more likely the correct one. So if you say I have a simple interpretation I'll take it as a compliment.

I presume the tiger wisdom comment was posted as criticism to sending troops to deal with Islamic extremists in their home countries. Given that there haven't been successful al-Qaida attacks on American soil since 9-11 that methods seems to be containing "the beast" as you say. As for your "smoke it out" comment...it sounds like a reference to military action to me. How would that be carried out if there was none of our military over there?

Maybe you're too comfortable with other countries (and the Americans in particular) doing all of the democratic world's dirty work. You're free to complain to your heart's content about injustices being committed by the West but readily enjoy the rewards of not having you daily routine wrecked with exploding buses and shopping malls.

As for your snide remark on part of a comment I directed at someone else: "...I believe I'll just leave that one in the cave", it reveals a belittling pompous attitude and no real desire to engage in a meaningful debate over the West's efforts against Islamofascism. I'm sure if you're really so smart, John Bolton would willingly spring for first class plane tickets for both you and Jose to Tehran to convince the hardliners to make Iran a green friendly nuke-free zone.

The French Muslim who killed his best friend of many years, a Jew, on behalf of his religion. The Muslim in North Carolina, who by all accounts had many non-Muslim friends and associates from his years at University - uses his truck as a weapon to kill on behalf of his religion. The Muslim taxi driver in Toronto who, after having what I thought was a civilized conversation on 911, didn't agree. He valiantly proclaimed, "We shall meet in the field."

The problem with all Muslims is that you never know. But they're only half the problem of the enemy inside - the left.

Our soldiers can fight the Islamists in Afhganistan. Our battle is here against the left. Our weapon, facts.

Good point, Irwin Daisy. It doesn't have to be al-Qaida attacks to count as Islamic extremist violence within North America. It is happening and apparently more often...but much more isolated incidents than overseas (so far).

Here's a comment on Al-Jazeera
**
farhan the truth is that it takes an incredible investment to produce enough weapons grade plutonium to make a bomb.

the facilities to do this cannot be hidden adequately to prevent our knowledge. i think the strategy after iraq will be a six hour warning with leaflets followed with a more severe pummeling of suspected nuclear*s by air than the world has yet seen.

we learned a great deal from iraq and will not make the same mistakes. bunkers will be rudely penetrated and facilities will be reduced to craters of toxic rubble. the cost to us is small and the benefit worthwhile.

everyone is hated by someone, so if we are that bad, why would we not opt to live up to it. saddam was another matter even iraqi commanders were surprised to learn that they did not have wmd's to defend themselves.

saddam's record and lack of what we call common sense made him inordinately dangerous. i hope things calm soon in iraq and apologize for our abuses. bush is indeed a **
============ Stevereeno - USA

Is Stevereeno Muslim?

Al-Jazeera filters comments out carefully.
This comment is considered and allowed.

Do they truly think that a 6 hour warning by leafelets, then a nuclear device is likely?

Six DAYS of warning by leafelet is required by the way. 6 hours would only cause citizen pileups on the roads leading from target areas.

This all seems surreal, but we're reading Al-Jazeera here.
comox100 TG

Martin B...take a pill...the thread is meant to open discussion of opinions. If you wish to engage in literal debate on the minutiae, as you see it, please do so and we'll sit back and readabout it. As far as your desire to solve the problems, I'll give up my ticket as I'm sure Jose will and we'll read about your exploits. Cheers!!

This war is about ideology and religion. We need to fight it with truth and love. Use force where and when necessary to disarm and disable terrorists. However, we need to also undermine the mullahs of hate with love. Pour out love and aid on the people (this is being done in small amounts and at great risk).

Garry P, like I said in my last comment...you're tiresomely long on criticism and intentionally short on substance. Who needs facts and details when it gets in the way of smoke and mirrors.

I'm fine with John Bolton & co. doing their jobs to keep nukes out of Iranian hands...whether that involves force or not. If anyone else (left or right) has a better idea that achieves Neville's "Peace in our Lifetime" without selling out the West...go for it. I'm just sick of listening to whiners who enjoy the sacrifices of those that do our dirty work but have no appreciation for those that have sacrificed (and continue to do so).

Aznar re Mad Mullah: "...that he tell me the time of the planned attack.” +

Bush reaffirms doctrine of pre-emptive strikes
Undaunted by the difficult war in Iraq, President George W. Bush reaffirmed Thursday his strike-first policy against perceived enemy countries. +
cnews

>>>>>>>>

Aznar: Iran's #1 Priority is "Setting Israel on Fire"

Iran’s “supreme leader,” the Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, told former Spanish prime minister Jose Maria Aznar in 2001 that Iran’s number one priority was “setting Israel on fire.” (Hat tip: mich-again.)

Former Spanish prime minister Jose Maria Aznar said Tuesday that Iran’s Ayatollah Ali Khamenei told him five years ago that “setting Israel on fire” was the first order of business on the Iranian agenda.

Aznar, in Israel as the guest of the Interdisciplinary Center in Herzliya, related the story to Major General (Res.) Professor Yitzhak Ben-Israel, who later confirmed to Haaretz that the remarks had been made. Aznar’s aides refused to give Haaretz the exact quote, but mentioned an article Aznar has written in the past on his meeting with Khamenei.

“He received me politely,” Aznar wrote, “and at the beginning of the meeting he explained to me why Iran must declare war on Israel and the United States until they are completely destroyed. I made only one request of him: that he tell me the time of the planned attack.” +
via LGF

Martin B..."I'm just sick of listening to whiners who enjoy the sacrifices of those that do our dirty work but have no appreciation for those who have sacrificed (and continue to do so)"...first of all, there is no whining...only your perception thereof...secondly...as I look back at the posts there is a loud lack of substance on your part as well. There was no need to point it out...it was obvious. I guess that is due to your attempt to lessen the perception of sactimony. As I said, Martin, the posts are meant to encourage opinion. Any so called criticism lays in perception as an opinion doesn't agree with yours. Maybe you could tell us all exactly what sacrifices you have made? At no time did I say I wasn't aware of the sacrifices being made by so many. They are being made everyday. As one who appears to have a more eclectic overview of things I am not restricted to the channeled view which excludes the errors and/or ommissions of the home team.

Canada-US border no longer "the world's longest undefended border". History rolls onward. +

Great Lakes gun upgrade

A U.S. Coast Guard plan to install machine guns on its Great Lakes cutters forced Canada and the United States to revisit the treaty that made theirs 'the world's longest undefended border'

Canada has consented to the mounting of machine guns on U.S. Coast Guard ships in the Great Lakes -- a bolstering of weaponry along the international border that prompted the two countries to revisit a 189-year-old naval disarmament treaty signed after the War of 1812. +
http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/story.html?id=daef8366-6f0a-495a-ba07-7d736aeb15ef

Garry P, you being more eclectic than the average cat certainly explains your selective reading comprehension skills. Your wise Chinese Tiger comment wasn't meant merely to "encourage opinion" and "open discussion". It was a snipe against sending the military to deal with Islamic extremists in their home countries. It expressed your opinion. I simply asked you to defend some obvious weaknesses in your contention.

But, being of eclectic ilk must mean you can choose not to plug the obvious holes in logic by ignoring hard questions asked by others. Taking a firm stand must be hard for complex eclectics. Maybe there's a future for you at the U.N. working for his Majesty Kofi.

As for what sacrifices have I made? Probably the same as you...none of enduring significance...except for one that may make a critical difference: I voted to change our formerly eclectic government to one that can take a firm stand.

say good night Martin...I not going to continue something that sounds like an attempt, on your part, to start a rewrite of an old Smothers Brothers script. The thread is snipped. I won't waste anymore of my time nor SDA's on this weak attempt, on your part. Since you have indicated an interest in the problems of the world, generally, and Iran specifically, start with this..."Atomic Iran"...(How the Terrorist Regime Bought the Bomb and American Politicians)...Jerome R. Corsi. You may also wish to include "Churchill and America"...Martin Gilbert, "Rogue Nation"...(The America the Rest of the World Knows)...Peter Scowen, and "Sandstorm"...(Policy Failure in the Middle East)...Leon Hadar. These aren't the end all and be all...simply meant to invigorate the thought process. And,as always, read everything with a skeptical eye. There is so much misinformation floating around one must sieve it and find a common thread. Adios!!

sarge thinks as long as you kanukistani folks is stealin qoutes from heros of the american rebellion in which we killed some of yer blond haired and oh so florid faced kinfolk, sarge might add, that ya'll try to read a little thomas jefferson or james madison. y'all might learn somthin' useful...or not.

Garry P:
"start a rewrite of an old Smothers Brothers script"

Lets get this straight. You post a not so hidden criticism of sending troops to fight Islamic fanatics in their home countries but then you say the enemy should be contained and smoked out. I ask the question: how do you smoke'em out without sending troops? Your razored down answer: "there is no conclusive solution". That's it...except for the four book reading assignment you've given me.

If you're so well read...why not put some meat into an answer instead of doing a quick "there are still British graves in the area" hip shoot? It would be interesting to see your analysis. "Eclectic" criticism for it's own sake is just a weak excuse to blow stinky air. Certainly not worthy of the Smothers Brothers.

Martin. B:...like I said...bed time Martie!!...I won't get involved in an excercise of picking fl7y shit out of pepper..and as well, I wasn't aware you were such a quick reader... here's a couple 'a other bed time stories...House of Bush...House of Saud...(Craig Unger)...'nite Martin!!

hey Martie!!...here's another..."Cold Terror"... (How Canada Nurtures and Exports Terrorism Around the World)...Stewart Bell; and "Hatred's Kingdom"...(How Saudia Arabia Suports the New Global Terrorism)...Dore Gold

The army is a make work project for the disadvantaged. Look at America. Do we really want this? We don't have money for Medicare,Daycare or pensions but the Tories are putting millions into the Armed Forces. What has happened and where are we going? Are any of you bloggers actually in the armed forces? Not weekend Army but full time active forces. I'm too old but I remember the USA getting it's ass kicked in Vietnam. Are we prepared to deal with death of our troops? I hope we don't pattern our foreign policy after the USA. Most Canadians on the whole are much smarter about the world than the average American. Remember that.

Garry P, it's sad you can't provide a better answer yourself. Quoting the latest rightwing conspiracy book of the month club listings isn't telling me why you believe sending troops to combat Islamic extremism is wrong. But if you think posting more intelligent comments here is just a waste of time, I'm sure you'll just keep on hanging out the "more eclectic than others" tile painted with a "I'm a Giant in my own mind" attitude.

That won't stop others from asking questions you either won't or can't answer.

Martin B...At no time did I say sending the troops in was wrong. Never did...this is your own wrongful impression. As most are so well aware, we are living in dangerous times and the proper (not politically) actions must be taken. As the battles are being fought, I strongly believe a more effective strategy must be developed. Exactly what that is I'm not sure. But I can rest assured that continuing to go in there with bigger and bigger stones will not be effective in the end. The so called "book of the month club" titles I suggested are, in fact, quite interesting. Like all written material (from any source) they are a trigger for thought and must be cross referenced to get a feel for accuracy. Your other comments couldn't be farther from the truth. And there are tons of great books available to exercise the mind and to help to explain the "what and why" of these scary times. There is more than just a little complicity in what is going on in the ME and I, for one, believe it is important to know these things. Doesn't change my position as to what I believe is the immediate requirement to counter the problem, though. I simply don't see a solution pending (maybe there just isn't one, at this time) and the world is in for many more years of what we're seeing in Iraq and Afghanistan. And do I feel any safer with Pres. Bush at the controls?...NO...but the greater concern would have been knowing that Al Gore was running the show and looking for the key to his little 'locked box'. That being said, we watch and follow the results of the US actions in the ME and around the world.

Do I think Canada should have troops there?...YES...but our soldiers shouldn't be used to mop-up an American policy gone wrong. I don't believe that is the case yet, but time will tell.

And finally Martin, don't put words in my posts that aren't there. Your assumptions weren't correct. There are more important comments to read than to continue to respond to questions that weren't sourced from my posts, only from your own thoughts. As for the "here kitty kitty (as you put it) post" that started this...there are many proverbs/cliches/wisdoms out there. As you should know they represent a catalyst for thought and have no literal application, hence my choice to not follow you along with your questions which didn't apply.

Let's keep a eye on what's happening with Iran as the US prepares for whatever military action plan has been created and Russia tries to regain some of its lost international stature by entering the dialogue in the international press. Do you think Russia is doing this on their own, Martin, or in quiet concert with the US? I will engage in meaningful dialogue with anyone anytime...the main word being meaningful.

Cheers

Thanks for the good reply Garry P. The "kitty, kitty" post...may not have been "bang on" in describing your opinion but I called it like I saw it at the time. You did eventually share a logical position.

I agree with quite a bit of your last comment. Where I differ is the point of Kate's post: the World is very much at war and by that definition specific solutions to the West's struggle with Islamic Extremism are very fluid, uncertain and involve the use of a strong military force to meet the enemy. The stronger the military force the better the West's chance of keeping brutally murderous terrorist actions off our soil. It's our military that gives the moderates a chance to exert themselves to effect positive changes in Afganistan and Iraq. Since that is a painfully slow process the main key to success is staying the course with firm resolve.

I for one feel much more safe under Bush's direct force efforts in Afganistan and Iraq than ineffective European Union negotiations with a very dangerous Iran. Under a Gore "give the UN a chance" Presidency there's a real possibility that the World would now be looking at growing nuclear capabilities in both Iraq & Iran with newly Talibanized governments freshly imported from Afganistan. That would be a much tougher and more threatening foe on the borders of Kuwait and Saudi Arabia. Saddam was going down one way or another either to the West or the al-Qaida insurgency. We should feel very fortunate that the West (most notably the Americans) acted first.

The West needs to use "bigger and bigger stones" to be effective in this war. The ponds of Islamic extremism are much to large and deep for small ones. It's not merely about oil, it's about our cultural survival.

As for your question about the Russians being influenced by the Americans to exert diplomatic pressure on the Iranians...will it really matter in the end? It didn't stop German facists and it won't stop the extremists ruling Iran.

Martin B:...re the Russian question... there are so many unseen influences being applied to the situation and the region that I, for one, would like to see where the strings are tied. Good to see a reasonable thread this time.

The American public want to withdraw from the middle east. We Canadians are going in headfirst maybe into a lot more crap than we can handle.

The American public want to withdraw from the middle east. We Canadians are going in headfirst maybe into a lot more crap than we can handle.