What am I personally willing to do?
1. Vote against any left-leaning political party (Libs, Dippers, Greens) who destroy our Armed Forces through lack of funding and respect.
2. Vote for any party (usually conservative) that removes funding from socialist lobby groups and make-work projects and then puts the money towards equipping our military.
2. I own several guns. If we're ever invaded I will very happily use them.

I think that there is a place for mandatory service.

Given the street violence, the relative unhealthy lifestyle many children lead today, the increasing drop-out rate, I have to ask myself, would it kill an 18 to 21 year old kid to serve in the Military for a year.

They'd learn disapline, it would get them off the street and out of the bars, they'd get some travel in, and they would learn something.

Many other western nations have mandatory service, I don't see why we should be immune to it either. Given the fact that we have such an inability to recruit, perhaps it is time that we really consider this.

We could also provide mandatory service as an option to minimum security offenders.

When I was a kid, we had around 75,000 people in Service... well, we had the 3rd strongest navy in the world too(albeit as a result of owning an aircraft carrier, I have no way to back up the 3rd strongest navy thing, I just remember my Dad whining that we did and one day we didn't)

Anyway, we have forest fires, blizzards, flooding, hurricanes, avalanches... would it kill to have a service that could actually contribute a large amount to rescue, recovery, and reconstruction.

Maybe we could take some of the billions being wasted each year and put it towards kids in service to their country.

W.Macdonell: Not a bad idea, but there's no money for funding. It's all being spent on harm reduction centres for drug addicts.(sarcasm)
Here in Kelowna, we're trying to decide where to put a "wet" homeless shelter for the losers who break into our cars and homes. "Wet" means they can shoot up, smoke up, or drink up on site, as is their Charter Right.
Military service might mean stress for some of these unfortunates.

william macdonnel you didn't answer the question which was what would YOU DO. you answered what others can do. now come what would you do idea man? Shouldn't you be concentrating on dollars wasted on gun registry? You sound simply trigger happy. Reasoning missing here sorry to say.

william macdonnel you didn't answer the question which was what would YOU DO. you answered what others can do. now come what would you do idea man? Shouldn't you be concentrating on dollars wasted on gun registry? You sound simply trigger happy. Reasoning missing here sorry to say.

I wonder if mandatory service would fly any better in Quebec than conscription has historically?
Personally I am for it.

Great blog.

Yet in our “progressive” magnificence, we may have lost our will to fight for what we hold dear.

One need look no farther than Europe, content with its socialist subsidies, where churches are more like quaint museums than places of worship, where replacement birthrates are seriouly declining and where the leftist elites have browbeaten any dissenting opinion.

9/11 woke a lot of us up. Most of us admire Bush for taking decisive action, hunting the terrorist vermin down in their own neighborhood with the full force of our military. Clinton did nothing.

No horrific train bombings, vile death threats written on Muslim protest posters or chanted on their streets, no unrelenting rabid anti-Semitism spewed by Muslims or the censoring of free speech seems to awaken any self-preservation among Europeans.

Dhimmitude is their fate unless something drastically alters that. I doubt it.

This is a very good question. Right off the top it seems to me the most important job is to educate people and convince them of the need. The cynical side of me thinks that will be a very hard task when you think about the kind of people who would stand by and let an innocent man get beaten to death on a bus or walk past some-one in need. Not forgetting the many other crimes against humanity committed here at home.

With that being said I am a woman, a mother and a humanitarian first and it kills me to think of Muslim women and children who are abused and want a way out. Children who a brain washed to become suicide bombers. Taught to hate freedom and despise those who have (many who take it for granted). Do any of us know ( Muslims, Christians etc.) with 100% certainty, how God or Allah judges our actions?

With that in mind, and not being of any particular faith, I believe in my heart that it is wrong to oppress the rights and freedoms of anyone based on sex, race or religion in this world, and certainly on our soil. For my part I would sacrifice whatever is needed at home or abroad to keep our land and ensure the freedoms and security of my children and their children.

Maybe God would take a dim view of that, I will deal with that when my time comes. For now I believe in protecting my children and in my heart I believe God looks at us all as his children and does not descriminate based on sex, color, or other factors beyond our control or level of understanding.

So count me in whether it's peeling potatoes, packing supplies or whatever else I'm capable of.
I will tell my children we have to make sacrifices now to make for a better future. Better living conditions for those oppressed and freedom (from dictators and fanatics) for those who seek it.

Every Canadian citizen has a duty to learn and train in the use and deployment of small arms and conflict tactics...as in Switzerland...this way in peacetime we can spare the expense of a large standing army as we will have a large reserve force that can be called up if needed. Militia service for citizens between the ages of 18 and 28 should be manditory....2 years manditory service/training in a citizens reserve force (cadet reserves). Those who have served will be required to qualify on a course of fire to keep their access to the defensive small arms they trained with.

Canadians should stand ready to defend themselves, their nation and their freedom from aggressive criminal/hostile force both foreign and domestic and they should have access to the training and means to solidify a national civilian reserve defense force.

What I advocate was the way The national defense policy functioned prior to the age (I believe Mike Pearson was the patriarch) of this insane, self destructive dogma that dangerous individuals and regimes can be "talked" into leaving us alone....and that disarmament is not an open invitation to attack by aggressive hostile interests. We all know in our hearts that Canada would not have enjoyed such a long term of peace had it not been under the US defense umbrella....time to pull our weight or invite well deserved contempt from other free nations.

A person, or a nation which cannot/will not defend themselves will be a slave to those who can.

Celestial junk, I am in complete agreement with you. I have always been a little fascinated in the fact that history has proven that all the big empires imploded and were destroyed right at the peak of their power and glory. Has history got a lesson for us all?
After decades of our nations leaders trying to push our armed forces into the background by reducing their budgets and making them do their work with the worst wore out junk for equipment, we have now entered a new era. I least I hope we have. What am I willing to do? I am willing to have more of my tax dollars spent on refitting our armed forces... and I am willing to never complain about these expenses... and I am willing to support of troops and any government( of any political stripe) with my full support. I feel that this will also improve our national pride and hopefully make us a people who are willing to stand up for our freedoms we enjoy. As a nation we have spent far too long ignoring our place in the world by putting our heads in the sand. This may mean we have to go to bat in foreign countries, and sometimes it will get messy. But it is absolutely essential. Canada has become a nation of political do gooders. Many feel that if they throw some money at a starving child in some foreign country, that the problem will go away and they will feel better. Of course, foreign aid is important, and it is often essential, but it does not end there. We as Canadians, cannot simply sit on our butts, on our comfy couches, and reach for our cheque books. Sometimes, we will have to help by sending our forces and help these people re-establish democracy.
Our political leaders have done a bang- up job of deluting our national thought on these matters by convincing our population that we are " peace keepers" and we are far too small to fight the big fights. We may be too small to fight the real big fights but we certainly can assist in fighting the big fights. This is why this trip by Harper is so important. Do you remember the last time Canadians felt this good about something? Can you remember a trip made by a previous Prime Minister that was as memoriable and meaningful? We have entered a new era, and I am hopeful we I think many Canadians are so new to the thought that we may have a role in war, that they are not yet ready to support our role in a country like Afghanistan. I think we have all heard someone say... well, the Russians couldn't beat them so how can we?
Canada was a much smaller country when WW2 broke out, yet our country played a key role in ended it. Our country is still considered as heros in some European countries. The time has come for us to redevelop our honour in the eyes if the world.
Our military has experience. It is small, but our troops are well trained.... and they have a well developed ability to think. This is because they have not had the luxury of just ordering a " new one" every time something has broke down. They have had to think ...and find a new way to do the job. We need to redevlop a new found pride in our armed forces. We are a country in desperate need of true heros.

Personally, I spent nine years in the Canadian Forces when I was younger. Since then, in 1991, I identified myself to the local recruiting centre should they have needed my services, and most recently I've spoken to a colleague in the military to let him know I'm willing to serve a month or so over in Kandahar should they need someone in my profession. A couple of my other colleagues have done the same and two have actually been on short term deployments. A month isn't much, but that's the whole point. If everyone's willing to do a bit, a small amount of risk and discomfort gets us one helluva good life.

What can the media do? From Nealenews: National Post: A Prime Minister we can be Proud Of

WOW!!! Awesome editorial especially in light of the source. The world must surely be about to end!(lol)

Cjunk,
Good posting (I read your blog too). VDH is truly brilliant.

It's so refreshing to see a comparison of CANADIAN culture to that of ancient Rome. Your typical Leftist (who truly believes he has a better grasp of history than VDH) would never dream of such a comparison. The only thought they are capable of? "The US is like ancient Rome, corrupt (because of conservatism and GWB) and will fall." Never once thinking that Canada is lumped into that same ball of wax. The fruits of "critical thinking" (as defined by the Left).

wlyonmackenzie: count me in! A lot of people look on Switzerland as the ideal of peaceloving and stable democracies. Those same people don't realize just how war-ready Switzerland is. I've been friends with a number of ex-change students from there, and all of them have had to serve; and they all supported the concept, as well as the discipline and "growing up" that goes into having to serve. Now William made a point that may have been missed, so I'll make it loud and clear. The Swiss live with their military issue weapons at home, as long as they are qualified.

Imagine the gnashing of teeth and screaming, hair pulling, whining, and pouting from the liberal masses here... guns... assault weapons... in homes... in cities... in Canada!

Personally, as I'm too old to actively serve, I believe in giving a significant portion of my taxes to those serving and in supporting anyone who understands the concepts of balancing freedom and strength. I am humbled by the young people who are willing to give so much, especially to make the lives of others better.

Gramsci's plans for you:

"...the role of western Marxist intellectuals was to create a 'counter-hegemonic project', that is, an alternative form of political and moral leadership."

This form of leadership includes: feminism, political correctness, multiculturalism, queer studies, historical revisionism, & etc. The communist "movement", after the fall of Soviet Russia, split into segments to push the agenda. The agenda remains: Crush Western Civilization; Build Utopia.

Left liberals pursue this agenda; left liberals and other nihilists are now allied with Islamist murderers to effect the goal of the crushing of the West. Their desired end result would be a global, totalitarian order which was the goal of Communism & Nazism, etc.

Intellectuals play a key role in the new "Utopia" as seen by Gramsci et al. More here:

HIST382 - The Treason of the Intellectuals: Power, Ethics, and ...
Raymond Aron, THE OPIUM OF THE INTELLECTUALS Simone de Beauvoir, THE MANDARINS Julian Benda, THE TREASON OF THE INTELLECTUALS ...
www.wesleyan.edu/course/hist382f.htm - 6k - +

Hegemony and the hidden persuaders
the power of un-common sense
George Clark (June 2002)

HEGEMONY in sociology, political science and international relations, is generally used to describe dominance or control rather than leadership. Thus 'hegemonism' describes the policies of states which control or bully those within their sphere of influence; 'hegemonic control' refers to a system of ethnic domination in which the political elite controls a subordinated ethnic community (or communities) in such a way that it is incapable of effective revolt; and 'hegemonic party' refers to a political party which is the only effective party in control of a particular society.

The widespread popularity of the concept of hegemony is the 1970s and 1980s derived from the western Marxist rehabilitation of the Prison Notebooks of the Italian Communist leader, Antonio Gramsci, who died at the hands of Mussolini's Fascists.

Drawing on the work of Machiavelli and the elite theorist Pareto, Gramsci used the concept of hegemony to describe the way in which he believed the bourgeoisie established and maintains control even in a democratic system in which workers and peasants might make up an electoral majority. The dominance of the bourgeoisie was not based on their control of the coercive power of the state, but rather rested upon their ability to exercise moral and political leadership, and to win consent for their vision of what was possible and worthwhile.

In Gramsci's thought, each successful political system requires the creation of an 'historic bloc', unified around an 'hegemonic project', in which the dominant class builds alliances beyond itself, and wins consent for its institutions and ideas. The appeal of this idea for western Marxists was twofold: it helped account for the failure of revolutionary Marxism in Western Europe, and it suggested that intellectuals played a key role in building hegemony for a historical bloc. By implication the role of western Marxist intellectuals was to create a 'counter-hegemonic project', that is, an alternative form of political and moral leadership. +
http://www.caledonia.org.uk/hegemony.htm

What are you willing to do?

I think a lot of Canadians are unaware that they could do something. Many think that joining the Armed Forces is tantamount to a lifetime of servitude to a totalitarian command structure, and are therefore repelled by the thought.
As a Reservist, I have found myself explaining Reserve service countless times to my civilian friends and acquaintances.
They are surprised that:

-Reservists can be between 17 and 54 years of age.

-Reserve service is completely voluntary, you can quit anytime.

-Reserve service pays, and pays better than most think.

-Reserve service does not mean a person is subject to call-up to a theatre of war.

-Reserve service carries many financial benefits for students and working people.

-Reserve service looks good on a resume.

-I can comment on blogs, run a business, have a family and home, and serve too. So...Will I see all of you down at my unit soon? Why not?

A wider education of the general public in this area may go a long way to solving our recruiting problems.
In todays fast-moving and dynamic world, a large and flexible Reserve should be best answer.
Remember, that's what those Roman armies actually were...Citizen Soldiers!

10:36 AM

Is this like a daycare [producing better human beings]for adults?
NDP and Libs would surely get behind it then.
The posterboys for the NDP, Holland have national service.
It is lofty stuff "to serve your country"

In addition to internal failings of our societies to commit to a more robust effort towards preserving our own values, there are clear threats from outside as well. Published at lgf is an interview with a person described as a refugee claimant:

"Norway’s most controversial refugee, Mullah Krekar, told an Oslo newspaper on Monday that there’s a war going on between “the West” and Islam. He said he’s sure that Islam will win, and he also had praise for suspected terrorist leader Osama bin Laden.

“We’re the ones who will change you,” Krekar told Norwegian newspaper Dagbladet in his first interview since an uproar broke out over cartoons deemed offensive to Muslims.

“Just look at the development within Europe, where the number of Muslims is expanding like mosquitoes,” Krekar said. “Every western woman in the EU is producing an average of 1.4 children. Every Muslim woman in the same countries are producing 3.5 children.

“By 2050, 30 percent of the population in Europe will be Muslim.”

He claimed that ”our way of thinking... will prove more powerful than yours.“ He loosely defined “western thinking” as formed by the values held by leaders of western or non-islamic nations. Its “materialism, egoism and wildness” has altered Christianity, he claimed.

Krekar, who’s been supported by the Norwegian government since arriving as a refugee from northern Iraq in the early 1990s, now faces deportation after violating the terms of his refugee status and being deemed a threat to national security.

Krekar told Dagbladet that he favours Islamic rule where political and religious leaders are one and the same. One such leader he respects, he said, is Osama bin Laden. “Osama bin Laden is a good person,” Krekar said. He claimed Osama bin Laden is considered a terrorist simply because he lacks his own state.

“Those who say Osama bin Laden is a terrorist are themselves killing our women and children,” Krekar said.

Attempts to “spread democracy,” he claimed, are merely a ruse to wage war against Islam, adding that “the West destroyed the Taliban regime in Afghanistan” because “it feared the Islamic state.”"

Sadly, the policies of overly generous treatment of people like this seems to have produced exactly the reverse of the intended results. Seventeen years of government support to this SOB and his ilk seems to have brought, not gratitude, but a feeling of entitlement and the attitude that the west is weak. The "revenge of the cradle" seems to pose a true threat to the west.

The Neoconservative doctrine is all but finnished even within the political party that spawned dead. It was always braindead and moraly bankrupt. The only people still clinging to it are the party faithful who bought the spin in the first place.

The US isn't going to be doing any large scale preemptive wars for a long time to come.

I don't suppose any of you personal liberty types are worried that 200 innocent people have been released from Gtmo after being tortured for four years. No I thought not.

Hail Big Brother

Re: Switerland
At one point it was the offical poilicy of the NDP to base our military on the swiss model. Circa 1984-85.

My question is, when the deluge of baby boomers retire starts (Year 2009), who will protect and dictate our country's future?

The younger generation of course.

So let's see what values they have...well if the Capitalist Piglet is any indication, we might have an issue. This isnt' a debate on the cartoon or "freedom of speech" so stop that stream right here.

We can talk all we want about freedom but are we willing to uphold it by war?

This is about who will fill the shoes of the retiring people. Who will protect this country from the barbarians?

Being the government is full of liberal leftist airhead thinkers - that worries me, who will run this country when we become top heavy with age and medical needs?

Soylent Green may not be too far away...

Ah, yes. "Jose" appears...

Whose comments are like small odiferous piles, gently steaming on the highway...of Kate's blog.
We see you, jose, and merely smile and step around you.

I don't understand the advocacy for national military service. The use of conscripts usually leads to an expensive military organization with diluted capability. This is the case in most European countries - they spend a greater percentage of GDP on their militaries than Canada, but can't deploy anywhere and have very poor readiness. A typical conscript serves 2 years, which really isn't long enough to become competent in any profession. In the meantime, the resources of the true professionals are soaked up in babysitting the latest class of recruits who'll be out the door right away. I understand the desire to instill some civic virtue into young Canadians, but I wouldn't want to compromise the military to do it.

Mad Mike; you probably won't see me if you're in Saskatchewan, but I promise to check it out here. I have to confess I am clueless about the reserves. My mother was in the millitia and I can remember her going to Kingston for a couple of weeks when I was young.

I just came across a video via Alberta Blogs > Thems Fightin' Words > Celstial Junk > Little green footballs - Feb 28/o6 from MEMRI TV - http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=19460_A_Clash_Between_the_Middle_Ages_and_the_21st_Century&only. LGF says; "Arab American psychologist Wafa Sultan is a very brave lady, as she confronts a bearded cleric on Al Jazeera television and gives him a severe dose of righteous truth."

She is indeed one very brave and well spoken Lady!!! It is women like her and the suffering of the Iranian/Canadian Journalist, Zahra Kazemi who inspire me. To think that the Ontatio Government for even one second considered allowing Sharia Law within Canadian Borders! That and the Liberal Government's handling of Kazemi's death. SHAME!

It simply amazes me how theres always an anon in the crowd ready to critique, yet never adding anything.

In fairness though, I'll answer your question.

I serve my nation by educating children on the history of the nation, by holding the history my family has been part of as something to be learned from.

I wish more people would. Time and again I hear people say to me "well, I don't really have a history, my family came here in 1945, or 1960, or 198o, or 1999".

That is just the point, you do have a story, we all have a story, whether it's us directly, or our parents, or grandparents, or for some of us our many great grandparents.

Canada is not a 7 eleven store that is located so you don't have to walk so far for cigarettes. It's a nation founded and capitalized upon by people who in one way or another could not live life in another country, be it because of oppression, poverty, war or what have you.

The end result of each is a tale. Although each tale has a different beginning, of seeking a better life for oneself and one's family, they all have the same ending, Canada.

Children today are profoundly ignorant of yesterday, and I'm a true believer in the old adage "you can't know where your going, unless you know where you've been". By remembering the why, and how, of our arrival in this country each child understands that none of us has an inherit right to any of this. It is earned, and oft times paid for in blood.

I like to think that people like myself are a link to the foundations of Canada, that I hold some of the keys to remembering the people who created this nation, and that through that knowledge, I help people achieve even more.

When my family members come over to visit, they will sit in my living room, often not knowing that most everything in my house has a piece of Canada's story behind it, spanning the last 4 centuries.

I love nothing better than when I get to pull out the family tree, and tell the children about the many, many people who they were descended from and related to, and the wars they fought, the lives they built, and the prices they paid to make their lives happen.

The furious details I pick out of my wifes fathers aging memory, as I struggle to put his story together. A story of a Ukranian boy, stolen from his homeland when he was but a lad of 13, forced into slave labor on a German farm, witness to atrocities, and then at the age of 18 brave enough to cross an entire continent and ocean to end up PeaceRiver, Alberta, where he settled, had a family, did an honest days work for the City of Edmonton for 35 years.

Her mother, whose family was Polish Nobility, and of her grandfather, who went from aristocracy to a cavalry facing insurmountable odds, to utter and total destruction, to a journey to freedom in Canada on a boat that shouldn't have gotten here.

Thats at my house, what goes on in yours?

What tales would we find behind each persons front door. Canada is a mosiac built on the stories behind each of those doors, and the parents aren't doing enough to let the second and third generation know what that tale is.

One doesn't have to pick up a gun to serve the nation. One merely has to be willing to serve in some capacity.

The person who delivers your newspaper, the cashier at the gas bar. The teacher teaching your children, the people who work at your bank, the civil servants... we all play a part in one way or another, and we all do our bit even when we don't realize it.

What we fail to understand or we allow ourselves to forget, is that we are privledged beyond the dreams and ambitions of roughly 4 billion people on this planet.

I contribute by playing witness to this nation, and by adding to it in every way that I can find to contribute.

Working as a lad on highrise buildings, educating myself, and starting companies and giving people jobs.

By pushing the boundries on technologies you are only now starting to enjoy. Things that you take for granted, that I've fought many a legal battle just to get into the country. I did that so that people like you Anon can enjoy and make living a little easier, even when larger interests didn't want you to because it eroded their profits.

Just like others have done for me, which I take for granted too.

I create techonology that saves your taxpayer dollars, and makes your government more accountable to the public purse as my principle contribution to Canada. I create technologies that allow small business to become big business.

I've traveled the length and width of Canada, from ocean to ocean to ocean. I have had the pleasure of many hundreds, if not thousands of people taking the time to have coffee, or a beer, or just a chat with me, and tell me about themselves.

I did that for the education of it, so that when someone from another part of this nation says something that I don't agree with, I can at least understand the "why" of their position. That way I don't just ignorantly assume that my arguement is more valid than theirs, without at least having some glimpse of their side of the coin.

I like to be a part of, and to revel in, the greatest single nation in the world. A nation of compassion, and intelligence, one of charity and a thirst for understanding. One which is slow to anger, but undaunted when united, and doesn't shrink in the face of adversity. Canada is the most diverse nation I've ever experienced, and I'm proud of it.

It's also a nation which has lost it's way, and needs to get back to the basics. We can't help other nations unless we are willing to deal with our own backyard first, and we've been working damn hard to ignore our backyard for about 30 years.

I live a good life, one which I appreciate.

I appreciate it because I have had the displeasure and heartbreak of witnessing poverty, disease, and famine, both at home and in other nations. I was lucky, I could get on a plane and come home... those people I left behind didn't have that option.

A Canadian can contribute a great deal by simply getting off their ass and excercising their most fundamental right... the right to vote. If I had my choice, it would be law that you had to show up on voting day.

It's a spoiled, lethargic, and unappreciative peoples in a country when only 61% of them show up to do their duty. The municiple turnout in Calgary last election was like 40%.

Lord knows its a real bitch to go to a polling station and cast a ballot. The irony is that if they put mandatory military service on as a ballot issue, you can bet your ass the turnout would be the highest in 60 years.

These are the things I consider my responsiblity, and in my own way, I pass on a legacy that is hand in hand with how this nation came to be, and in line with where it's supposed to go. At least that was what I was taught, at a time when the nation had a common vision.

Perhaps not much in the view of some, but something I feel comfortable with. When I die, I won't regret my time here, and it won't have been wasted.

So then Anon, those are my thoughts and ideas in regards to contributing to a nation...

What about you?

I would like to mention a school in Edmonton, specifically Vimy Ridge Academy.It is a public High School.When my son applied he met with the principal for an interview, he was asked to write a 100 word essay on the spot on "What it means to be a Canadian"The school has a Canadian Studies program, the halls are filed with Canadian military photos and artifacts.There is a uniform code with enough flexibilty that nobody can get too upset [the kids actually voted to retain the uniform code]I loved that my son attended there.I know that he is a better person for it.
Calgary now has a similar charter school called Juno Beach

FOr those who are interested, I am reposting the following:
http://www.recruiting.forces.gc.ca/engraph/home/index_e.aspx?bhcp=1

and the Reserves:
http://www.recruiting.forces.gc.ca/engraph/reserve/index_e.aspx?bhcp=1

Cheers
JMH

No Jose I don't give a shit about the 200 detainee's in Gitmo... I'm more concerned about the 700000 First Nations members living in poverty.

Perhaps if you got your liberal head out of your ass, you'd be a bit more concerned about the general well being of people as a whole, and less about a few individuals, who, at the very least, chose their friends poorly... and are still eating better than people on Indian Reserves.

Jackwad

Ian, my nieces attend Vimy Ridge & they love it. They both went to Ottawa for Remembrance week, one's a cadet & they are both in the pipe/drum band. It's a great school.

“By 2050, 30 percent of the population in Europe will be Muslim.”

Maybe higher.

I predict that France will have a Grand Mosque where the Louve once stood by 2050 with all of those offensive nudes burned. All of the vineyards burned and the Notre Dame leveled.

When your culture, values and history become meaningless, as the Left elites(Yale has a Taliban scholarship student as we speak) have gutted them over decades, Islam is and will continue to gather strength.

We are very luck we are separated by a large body of water. I'm not so sure that Americans and Canadians are going to save Europe again or care too.

I myself served 9 years in the military. I served in the first gulf war along with about 3000 others. What we did there was important and i know we did alot of good for alot of people.
do i think everyone should have to serve in the military.... no
There are many ways to support our troops and our country.
First thing is stop this nonsense about having some sort of debate about being overseas. It is too late for that. To even question it now is to say that the soldiers that died did so for no good reason.
Second learn Canadian history. We were not always a weak country. We held a place of honour in the world which thousands died for. To learn of our history can only make you proud.
Third Support our troops.Always.
When i was overseas i was sent a letter from a nine year old girl who told me how proud she was of me. I still have that letter. It meant so much to hear from a young person from Canada while in the middle of the dessert.
Everyone should pick up a pen and write to these brave men and women many who arent much more than kids themselves and tell them how proud you are and thank them for what they are doing for you.

Jose said: "I don't suppose any of you personal liberty types are worried that 200 innocent people have been released from Gtmo after being tortured for four years. No I thought not."

Actually Josie, I would've prefered to release the gtmo boys right away, to the Northern Alliance in Afghanistan. No mess, no fuss, just a smear on the desert. A more fitting end; the Americans were far to kind.

I live 30 miles from the US border. After my last posting, I had to run into town. I thought it was quite fitting that I followed a Montana SUV with the" Support our Troops" sticker proudly placed on the back of the vehicle.( the yellow ribbon intertwined with the American flag)
I wondered if we as Canadians were coming to a place where we would proudly place the Canadian version of a similar sticker on our vehicles. I certainly hope so. I think many Canadians have made jokes about our armed forces for far too long. I have heard more people actually proclaim some real pride in our forces in the past few days, and most of it has occurred since our PM visited the troops in the field. I think if it would have been possible for Harper to go to Afghanistan prior to the election, he would have a resounding majority in the H of C today.
Maybe the time has come for Canadians to stand up to be counted. Maybe it is time for a "Support our Canadian Troops" sticker. i think it might even add to our Canadian unity and hopefully pull this country a little closer together

Dave: Thanks Dave! I think that many of us don't realize how much a simple letter of appreciation can do. My son's heading into basic, and I know what you mean when you say that many are very young themselves. We ask the best of our youngest; so I suppose the least we could do is send a note of appreciation.

Well said William. However, I pondered over the mandatory service part of your earlier post. Once you start making others fight your battles, freedom is no longer freedom.
I agree about giving the wasted youth a meaningful existance. What would it take that would make a person willing to serve? I think it comes down to giving youth choices for service. It has to be enticing.

I don't suppose any of you personal liberty types are worried that 200 innocent people have been released from Gtmo after being tortured for four years.

Worried? Nah. Not one tear shed.

When you are captured on the battlefield as an non-uniformed combatant, the Geneva Conventions don't apply to you. Under International Law, you can be executed after the most minimal due process in the field.

Just guessing that they left with all of their fingernails, one eye not poked out of their heads and their teeth in their mouths, it was Club Med compared to the alternative....and probably the best chow they've had in years.

I've met a few people from Germany who had nothing bad to say about their mandatory "Civil Service." I suppose it wouldn't be a bad idea, though I'll have to look into it more to see how effective it is; George raised some doubts in my mind.

And to the person who mentioned using his/her guns if we're invaded, Venezuela is way ahead of us on that one!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4777972.stm

Well, I hadn't meant mandatory service as in perpetually sending our children off to war.

There's peace keeping, humanitarian deployments, and no end of roads to build here at home. Not to mention infrastructure up north, on reserves, rural needs like dams, dikes, canals.

So I don't think war is necessarily the end result of mandatory service.

We could have mandatory forest Fire brigades, or programs such as kitivamik which are broader and mandatory.

I'd personally love to see a Canadian made Peace Corps. Let the little buggers travel see the world, dig irrigation ditches, help farmers, build schools, hospitals... etc.

Any literate 18 year old is pretty qualified to teach english and math and social studies to children under 12.

So I think it is more about giving the youth a mission. One which isn't about avoiding school or responsibility, but perhaps more about appreciating the fact that they have access to school, good jobs, and that responsibility is a privilege.

Hell, you'll never say no to a meal after a month or two in a third world country, nor will you be picky about what you eat.

Although it still amazes me how many different ways there are to eat chicken.

I think in the end, we need to focus on ways to broaden the minds of the youth of Canada. They are spoiled, even the good kids are without knowing it. These kids need to see more than California's Disneyland, or the beaches of Mexico.

The world is a large and violent place, with little forgiveness for naivete.

While I don't like to remember it, seeing people living in cardboard box's, dead on the street from malnutrition, or malaria... it reminds you very quickly, and with no uncertainty, that there but for the grace of god...

"I don't suppose any of you personal liberty types are worried that 200 innocent people have been released from Gtmo after being tortured for four years."

Yeah right...utter torture for four years...below are a couple of quotes from these poor, poor souls (who by the way, on average, gained 13 lbs. in body weight during their "torture"...

"However, for some curious reason, the Indy doesn't see fit to mention the most interesting aspect of the testimony of this individual, one Abdul Hakim Bukhary (set 3, page 60). Perhaps it doesn't fit the picture of Guantanamo that the likes of Mr. Sutcliffe and his employers (whether at the BBC or the Indy) wish to convey:

"Prisoners here are in paradise. American people are very good. Really. They give us three meals, juice, fruit and everything! My God! Here they [i.e. the Arab detainees] bother me everyday, every time. Now about 30 months to this day, they bother me. They call me a hypocrite. They call me a spy. You have to say, 'thank God!' I thank you for America! If you are in a Taliban prison, they do not treat you well. Here we are in paradise. It is 100% paradise. Yes, really. Thank you!"

Another admitted Taliban fighter, Mohammed Yacob, shares Mr. Bukhary's positive feelings towards his captors (set 2, page 55):

"I'm very happy with the Americans. I don't blame the Americans for capturing me. I blame someone who reported me; I got captured because of him."

Next installment, a graphic account of the actual torture admistered to yet another poor soul...

Re: mandatory civil service

I believe that by offering(or sentencing)our troublesome youth to serve 2 yrs+ in our military would solve a host of problems.

1.They're off the streets for a few years,something our current system can't manage.
2.Will learn many positives in serving that they are probably lacking in spades(respect,teamwork,etc).
3.Would probably top up our ranks as much as presently needed.

When it comes to the rest of our youth,give them a chance.If required to defend our nation I'm sure they would come forward and make us as proud as previous generations have.

"I don't suppose any of you personal liberty types are worried that 200 innocent people have been released from Gtmo after being tortured for four years."

Well okay, Jose, in the interest of balance, here are more transcrpts that outline the actual torture (to those who have already seen it, apologies for the redundancy...

Over at lgf are descriptions/links to some statements outlining the unimaginable horrors of the torture treatment to which detainees are subjected, including one poor soul's description of the despicable unhumanities dealt to him (Caution: graphic content). Gee, no wonder they want to decapitate us all:

"Finally, and in all honesty, it's my duty to add that another former detainee, Feroz Abbasi, is not nearly as happy with the treatment that he received. In lengthy handwritten statements, included with the newly-released documents, Mr. Abbasi - who "left Britain to either join the Taliban or fight for Allah in [Indian-occupied] Kashmir", being driven by "pure hate" for Americans - details the extent of the torture to which he was subjected.

The list of abuses (set 5, page 14) makes for unpleasant reading, to say the least - but the whole thing must be included, for the sake of completeness.

During his time in Guantanamo, Mr. Abbasi (writing in the third person) alleges that he was:

subject to [unspecified] "mental stress and pressure"

"willfully misdirected ... to pray north"

deprived of "comfort items"

subjected to an [apparently failed] "attempt to withdraw Qur'an"

able to hear two guards having sex, while
they "assumed he was asleep"

distracted from his prayer by the "sharp intake of breath" of a female MP who'd been "sexually fondled".

offered a plate of pork

the object of a conspiracy "to keep detainee ignorant of detainee's allotted Tuesday recreation"

subjected to a "partially successful" attempt to administer injections "under the guise of immunisation", designed to "unhinge detainee's mental and emotional stability"

While all of these acts are undeniably horrifying, being on a par with the worst excesses of Torquemada, even their totality pales in comparison with the most extreme of the tortures to which Mr. Abbasi was subjected.

Of course, countless abuses have been committed against war prisoners throughout the ages - no one denies that. But, while not downplaying their suffering, it must be admitted that even the most unfortunate of these victims can only breathe a sigh of relief that he was not subject to what Mr. Abbasi was forced to endure when he:

had his peanut butter eaten by a guard "right in front of him"."

O the horror...O the humanity...

(note to self: always avoid coming between a stone-age Islamist barbarian and his peanut butter)

Needlemeyer "Actually Josie, I would've prefered to release the gtmo boys right away, to the Northern Alliance in Afghanistan. No mess, no fuss, just a smear on the desert. A more fitting end; the Americans were far to kind."

You're under the mistaken impression that these people are somehow involved with the Taliban or Al Qaeda. American military and intelligence officials have come to the conclusion that they are not.

Only 5% of the Gitmo detainees were taken by the Americans in combat. The rest were handed in by Afghanis and Pakistanis in exchange for substantial rewards. The majority of these people have no ties to radical islam. The americans got played for suckers basicaly.

One of the detainees is a political satirist who lampooned radical clerics. They handed him over to the americans out of revenge.

Its time for the right to wake up and smell the coffee.

William-

I didn't know that my position against torture would lead to First Nations people starving. Please explain your logic and perhaps I'll reconsider my views.

A voluntary military service is usually the best, as people are there for a reason.

Hauling people off the street, with drug abuse or mental problems, will likely lead to explosive consequences.

Remember the guy who sprayed lead across the Quebec Assembly?

If you are asking people to potentially lay down their life for their country; then at the very least it is a useful precondition to actually believe in the worth of the country and its missions whether at home or abroad.

PM Stephen Harper's visit to Afghanistan has done much to remedy the public/military disconnect fostered under the Liberals most recent attack ad election drivel.

It is not the job of the government to abuse members of the military by making them out to be little better than "goon squads" marauding "In your cities, In Canada".

The mindless criticism by the lefty press and media posturing completely undercuts the outrage felt by those who are "taking a bullet on behalf of the nation."

Prime Minister Stephen Harper is crack on, when he suggested that the military need our support; not another round of abuse, navel gazing.

The Liberals made the decision to send troops to Afghanistan; now you simply follow through. FULL STOP, PERIOD. The time for debate has passed. Monday morning quarterbacking, while one's troops are in theatre, on the field receiving incoming RPGs and assorted IEDs hardly shows committment to their sacrifice. It shows that those that hold such opinions are deficient in their understanding of the notion of honour, bravery, courage and discipline while under fire.

In short, they don't understand simple civics and the concept of nationhood.

Your military is the LAST line in your nation; if they fail there is no nation. Calgacus said it best when the legions returned to Briton:
(Insert Taliban for Romans and the quote is up to date)

“….beyond us lies no nation, nothing but waves and rocks and the Romans, more deadly still than they, for you find in them an arrogance which no reasonable submission can elude. Brigands of the world, they have exhausted the land by their indiscriminate plunder and now they ransack the sea. The wealth of an enemy excites their cupidity, his poverty their lust of power. East and West have failed to glut their maw. They are unique in being as violently tempted to attack the poor as the wealthy. Robbery, butchery, rapine, with false names they call Empire; and they make a wilderness and call it peace.”

I have to admit this idea of 'doing my part' made me think of how I would feel 6 or 12 months from now if, for instance, the Liberals got back in with Martin or someone like him as leader. Would I be as ready and willing to serve then? Sorry if that makes me sound horrible, I want to assure everyone I do live up to my committments to do my duty, but I wouldn't be honest if I didn't admit the thought occured to me.

Anyways, that's when it occured to me, as someone who's felt left out as a Canadian for as long as I can remember, that the TRUE PATRIOTS are the men and women, and their families, who are in Afghanistan right now ( even before Harper became P.M.). They do their duty, put their lives on the line, no matter what is being said and done at home, who is leading the Country or whether or not they are appreciated. Just a thought.

Thankyou to all the members of our armed forces, past and present, their families and friends. Please extend my gratitude and rest assured this is one Canadian that get's it.

I think the same can be said for all of our emergency/health services who do likewise, day after day, no matter the conditions, amid bitching, internal investigations and contract negotiations. Thankyou again.

The majority of these people have no ties to radical islam.

You have a link to that fact or do we have to fact-check your a$$?

You throw a lot of garbage out, Jose, none of it linked to a reliable source. Try linking to reliable sources and not some whacked out lefty site or paper.

(note to self: always avoid coming between a stone-age Islamist barbarian and his peanut butter)........or Saddam and his Doritos.

jose it looks like you use aljazeera.com as your news source. If not you write very simular to their slanted twisted B.S. news.
And in the real news-- "About 10 former detainees have rejoined the fight against US forces after being released from a US military prison in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba in the belief they no longer posed a threat, Pentagon officials said on Friday.
Some have been recaptured, others reportedly killed and an unknown number remain at large, the officials said." this does not count the 4 captured in Russia where they are finding out what a real gulag is like.

Alan, I just noticed that the number of detainees you cite in your comment exactly matches the statistic supplied by Jose for detainees taken in combat.

That being said, I will read the article (and more) that contains the information you present. A link would be nice though.

Jose, those people in Gitmo are there by the actions and choices they made, or the actions and choices of people they knew. Either way, the US picked them up because they were in the wrong place at the wrong time, by their own choice.

The Liberal says what about the little guy, while blithly fucking over the mass' to ensure the little guy is looked after.

You would have the audacity to worry about a few, a very few, who may or may not be involved in the deaths of thousands. You would admonish those who write here over the very same. You'd have us feel guilt over these few criminals, while thousands of people in your own nation are persecuted, abandoned, and basically left in third world conditions... in the middle of your own country.

By liberal governments who repeatedly promised to help them.

Where are your priorities best placed, on those who most likely do belong where they are, or on those who truly need yours and mine attention.

No one asked those fuckers in Gitmo to be involved in terrorism, no one asked them to attack the US. Over 3000 people died in the twin towers, and you worry about the treatment of 200 people who would cheerfully gut you like a fish.

Get a life man. There will always be Gitmo's, and there will always be poor people. We can't solve it all, but we should be able to solve that which occurs in our backyard,and if we spent more time looking to our own, we'd have more time to look after the few.

Instead you chose to task people over what may or may not be abuses by another nation, not our own.

Wow. Thanks for all of the great feedback guys, especially from the veterns.

"When it comes to the rest of our youth,give them a chance.If required to defend our nation I'm sure they would come forward and make us as proud as previous generations have."

The main thesis of my piece was that there probably is a point where those needed DON'T come forward. As appealling as the modern military is in many ways, who wants to give up the absolutely supreme and unmatached comforts of our post-modern civilization do go sit in a hole somewhere and get shot at?

The Romans, some of histories most vicious, determined, and brilliant warriors reached that point where they were unwilling to fight. I would never assume that our civilization couldn't reach that point. And I would also never assume that our civilization will remain intact and without serious threats.

On the modern day militia, vis a vis Switzland, its a nice idea, with one major drawback. A key factor in the supreme fighting abilities of modern day western armies is that their members are volunteers. The professional volunteer army gives you the most dedicated and toughest soldiers possible. Constricpts and militia's don't carry that vital edge.

"Jose, those people in Gitmo are there by the actions and choices they made, or the actions and choices of people they knew. Either way, the US picked them up because they were in the wrong place at the wrong time, by their own choice."

William Macdonell, I think you are two different people!Sometimes you make sense and sometimes you say things that... are really weird. By the logic of that statement, if you get killed by a drunk driver it is your own fault.

Go ahead, have another go at that.

Agreed that Aboriginal issues should be a primary concern for right-minded Canadians.

meshon re links
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/09/24/terror/main645493.shtml
http://washingtontimes.com/national/20041018-124854-2279r.htm
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=story_23-10-2004_pg7_54
http://www.rantburg.com/poparticle.php?ID=121734&D=2005-06-15&HC=1
http://www.moonbattery.com/archives/2005/06/actual_gitmo_ab.html
http://www.tcsdaily.com/article.aspx?id=062905D

also some enlighting reading for Jose

And by your logic Jose, you'd berate all drivers because one was killed by a drunk.

Enough for today, I've got to go crash some beers and run some people over.

Bruce Interesting that you mention Peanut Butter I hadn't heard that one. I was more worried about beating innocent people till they puked blood. Call me a touchy feely moonbat but I expect "our side" to be better than that.

Aren't some of guys christian or something? Isn't this supposed to be a bad thing. Or are you guys mostly into the old testament?

whistles... 'do you know the way to ban jose?'

alan "jose it looks like you use aljazeera.com as your news source. If not you write very simular to their slanted twisted B.S. news.
And in the real news-- "

Spend five minutes in google (no don't go to the Fox News website) looking it up and you'll come to the same conclusions.

I have never liked Gitmo but until recently I was naive enough to believe that most of the people in it were terrorists. I also didn't think these people were being tortured. Believe it or not I'd like to give the Bush administration the benefit of the doubt on several things.

Well the truth is out and Gitmo reeks to high heaven. This really pisses me off. I thought the west left this kind of behaviour behind in the 19th century. Its just plain stupid and brutal and its the not the solution.

Alan, thank you for the links. Even though the news about the detainees returning to combat is a year and a half old, I hadn't heard it yet, so much appreciated. The main reason I started reading and posting here was to broaden my knowledge. I will add some of those sites to the ones I check regularly.

And Rantburg is funny. Certainly not news, but funny.

Hey folks: Don't feed the trolls. They subsist on attention, cursing, and being taken seriously. If fed, they succeed in taking away from what is a truly interesting, intelligent, and honest debate, among a very diverse community.

Jose:

Me? Christian? Or even Religious? Not likely.

I suppose it follows that someone dumb enough to buy into the standard left-wing propaganda rants about those bad-old Americans and their "neofacist" practices is also naive enough to swallow the lefties' ridiculous streotypes.

Bruce- Apologies for any presumption of religious feelings on your part. In my defence that wasn't aimed specificaly at you.

Regardless of your religous persuasion there's a certain line of human decency that isn't unreasonable to aspire to. And while you clearly differ with my argument you shouldn't take a appeal to morality as a personal insult.

Cjunk "Hey folks: Don't feed the trolls. They subsist on attention, cursing, and being taken seriously. If fed, they succeed in taking away from what is a truly interesting, intelligent, and honest debate, among a very diverse community."

You must be using a different definition of troll than the one I'm familiar with. While I've recieved plenty of insults on Small Dead Animals I've never dished any out myself.

Strange that your personal definition of an "interesting, honest, diverse" debate doesn't actualy have room for an opposing point of view. Well maybe not so strange.

here's a clip from asia times. if it has substance does'nt sound to good.

Taliban's Iraq-style spring is sprung

The shooting of American soldiers, suicide car-bomb attacks, bases going up in smoke and inspirational messages: these are some of the images used on a CD made by a group in the Iraq resistance that is being used to motivate and educate the Taliban ahead of their spring offensive in Afghanistan. This year, the Taliban believe they are stronger than before, and the key to their revival is the links they have forged with the Iraqi resistance. - Syed Saleem Shahzad

My daughter is in Air Cadets. The squadron has dwindled to a fraction of what it was just a few years ago, and they urgently need new officers, or they may be disbanded. In discussions at the parents' meetings, and from my daughter, I hear that cadets get ridiculed by their peers for being in cadets. And this is in a supposedly conservative rural area. And this is cadets, which is not really much of a sacrifice at all; the kids get lots of training and entertainment, it looks good on a resume, and all their costs are covered! The only sacrifice is that the parents have to put some time into fundraising (but nowhere near as much time as they would have to put into a lot of other activities). Looks like parents aren't even willing to sacrifice some time to give their kids some guidance so they respect another kid in a uniform, let alone the time to have their own kid in cadets. As I see it, it doesn't bode well for future military recruitment.

What am I personally willing to do?

1. Work as hard as i can to get us out of Afghanistan

Hey folks: Don't feed the trolls. They subsist on attention, cursing, and being taken seriously. If fed, they succeed in taking away from what is a truly interesting, intelligent, and honest debate, among a very diverse community..

Sound advice. Having a dialogue with trolling idiots is a waste of time.

So good-by, steve d, steve in bc, Jose and agitprop and all of your incarnations or separately.

Of course, we expect you will be back with new names tomorrow, but the pattern and content are getting too familiar and easy to spot. But then, now familiarized, we can be faster in spotting the old troll's dribble under a new name.

Okay, since when does the Roman Empire equate with the Canadian Federal State? Maybe if you believe we are simply an extension of the USA then yes that may be a valid comparison. However, I am not one who believes that and neither are we an Empire so it doesn't really apply.
I am willing to take part in real defense against terrorism. That is, working here at home in my community, or on my computer to try to detect the formation of terrorist cells.

I think Celestial Junk would have spent his time better by studying the history of Afganistan. He could have shown how throughout their very long history they have been independent and untameable in the extreme. They have ALWAYS resented foreign armies occupying their land. So if you think Canadian Troops have only to worry about Taliban you are naive. Sorry to all the gungho John Wayne types out there but in the end the tribalism will outlast any length of stay by our troops or any other troops.
I leave you with a sober little peom written after the British lost 16000 men in Afganistan at the height of their Empire.

"When you're wounded and left,
On Afghanistan's plains,
And the women come out,
To cut up your remains,
Just roll on your rifle,
And blow out your brains,
And go to your Gawd,
Like a soldier."
-Rudyard Kipling

Tomorrow I will use the name Penny.

Afghanistan is the SOURCE AND SUPPLY of 90 percent of the world's cocaine trade. Our soldiers are there to protect this supply first and foremost and to ready the ground for the oil pipeline to go through. There's a lot of business opportunity in that to be exploited at our soldiers' expense. May God protect them this hour.

Today Capt. Trevor Green, God Bless Him now and forever, returned to his homeland, Vancouver, B.C.
Is this what you would have our Canadian youth commit to? Dirty oil and illegal contraband? What kind of a Ukrainian are you McDonnell? You are aware as a history teacher of our youth, perhaps you have pointed it out in your classroom, that 110,000 Russian troops were in there for a decade and retreated in defeat. The Afghans were the ONLY group Alexander the Great could not beat into submission.

You are correct -- oppression is NOT THE WAY and our former minority government without debate on floor committed our troops to this vital geo-political business opportunity, nothing more and nothing less. I would not sacrifice even one soldier in these business pursuits. The new minority government is responsible to the free people of this nation and what we should take pride in is that through our reps we can demand the troops be recalled til debate on the floor takes place and the information is circulated as to the real reasons our troops are there.

Technology and defence contracts are the profiteers here as well. The wasted blood of our precious youth for these illicit dollars. NO!

Educate yourselves, don't chestpound, it's uncivilized. Let the Afghanis live in the peace of their tribal communes. It will be several generations before they work out their own system of government to suit their societies. They've been occupied for 30 years by foreign nationals. An honest government would abandon these business opportunities and tend to the poor conditions here at home such as our own aboriginal communities, child poverty, homelessness, starvation, the education of our youth for tomorrow.

PM Harper spoke about "freedom" for the Afghan women when he walked right passed Canadian women asking to speak to him about the child care program before a music awards event in the maritimes. He didn't extend to them the time of day. Unacceptable.

No I had the greatest hope for him when he came out the gate from swearing in ceremony and announced aid to farmers and children and gave time frames. Then he did reverse course and these are emergency situations that were the priorities on campaign platforms.

The LIEBERALS handed the election to the Conservatives on a silver platter because they had to get out of the way of the Adscam fallout?
Not much fallout. The sentences that have been handed down are meaningless. The white collar criminals have only received a wrist slapping poised to make their return. NOT IF OUR VOTE COUNTS.

We voted based on the platforms and the platforms were VAGUE at best and phony at worst.

The corporate/industrial/military components are the aggressors and our youth are as expendible as the grass. I SAY NO. ATTEND TO AFGHAN-LIKE CONDITIONS HERE FIRST. THAT SHOULD BE OUR MANDATE TO OUR GOVERNMENT.

And another thing, when some future leader goes out with the troops in the actual front lines, then we can talk about 'bravery' and a 'just war'.

The Americans are already conceding defeat and are aware they have no role in 'civil wars', they must abandon the 'oil agenda', they have access to the Alberta oil sands and its abundance, our water, etc.

I guarantee I'm as steeped in history, economics, politics and family history in this country as you mcdonnell. I love the Ukrainian culture. My sister-in-law is Ukrainian descent. Therefore, I prize the generation to generation stories and, therefore, WOULD NOT COMMIT OUR YOUTH to such a deceitful and corrupt theater of war.

STAND UP FOR CANADA
STAND UP FOR CANADIANS FAMILIES -- ESPECIALLY THE YOUTH

Sorry folks, National service would be a great idea except that, thanks to the glories of multiculturalism, we no longer have a cohesive, patriotic society to draw from. The first loyalties of probably a quarter of our young people are to cultures other than, or even hostile to, the Canadian majority.

The colonial Brits solved that problem by having separate Muslim regiments, Sikh regiments, Guhrkas and so on, to accomodate religious observances, dietary rules and the sheer hatred that some groups had for each other. I don't see that system working in Canada - not even within our volunteer army - much less with a bunch of conscripts.

Incidently, if a second generation Muslim Canadian, brainwashed in a Wahabi-tainted school, was called to serve in Afghanistan, how would he be likely to respond? Hell, even 5th generation Canadians brainwashed by superanuated hippy parents would be more trouble than they were worth.

Modern armies don't need a lot of cannon fodder. Even infantry with the duty of "telling the enemy that the war is over" are now pretty high tech and highly trained and often sharper than the average 20 year old. (One year of compulsory service wouldn't cut it.)

Equip our volunteers better, show them more respect, recruit more actively and get rid of some of the parasitic Ottawa staff. A well-officered professional army works just fine.

Zog "Modern armies don't need a lot of cannon fodder. Even infantry with the duty of "telling the enemy that the war is over" are now pretty high tech and highly trained and often sharper than the average 20 year old. "

Plus we now have robotic vehicles doing our killing for us.

I'm not sure about the modern soldier being sharper than the general population. That statement may be true of some classes of servicemen. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to hump dirt, take orders and pull a trigger.

For an interesting take of the modern military from the perspective of US veterans google Soldiers For the Truth. It's interesting reading.

... "Mr. Harper's brief address..."

Abraham Lincoln's Gettysburg address contained 272 words. +

Harper's mission statement
National Post ^ | March 15, 2006 | Andrew Coyne

Posted on 03/15/2006 5:51:28 AM PST by Squawk 8888

Stephen Harper's visit to Afghanistan was significant on many levels -- as a gesture of support to the troops, a signal of Canadian commitment, a teaching moment for the public on Canada's interests in that fight, and in the broader struggle against international terrorism. It was also, needless to say, a masterpiece of political theatre, showcasing both Mr. Harper's well-known determination and a subtler sense of tone that many doubted he possessed.

But it will be remembered most for what it said of his view of Canada, and the meaning of Canadian nationhood. Though Mr. Harper's brief address to the troops contained many good lines, memorable for their pith if not their eloquence, it was much more than a rah-rah speech. It was a national mission statement.

It wasn't just his invocation of a warrior heritage ("cutting and running ... is not the Canadian way") that generations of nationalist mythmakers have tried to paint over. It was his explicit appeal to Canadian idealism. Or perhaps should I say his challenge to it: Mr. Harper wasn't flattering Canadians, in the manner of so many previous political leaders, on our matchless national worth. He was daring us to prove it.

The Afghanistan mission, he told the troops, is "about more than just defending Canada's interest." It is also "about demonstrating an international leadership role for our country. Not carping from the sidelines, but taking a stand on the big issues that matter."

In case anyone missed his point, he repeated it. "You can't lead from the bleachers. I want Canada to be a leader ... A country that really leads, not a country that just follows ... providing leadership on global issues, stepping up to the plate, doing good when good is required."

Taking a stand? Providing leadership? And doing so, not in easy ways that require no more of us than our own splendid example, but in hard ways that risk Canadian lives? We have not heard such talk from our leaders in a long while. It wasn't quite "ask not what your country can do for you." Nor, indeed, was he suggesting Canadians should ask what they can do for their country, but rather what Canada can do for the world, and in that moment he soared.

This was not that fatuous invitation to self-love, "the world needs more Canada." It was: Canada owes more to the world -- more than we have been giving it. And yet it was equally clear that this was as much for Canada's sake as the world's.

This notion, after all, of Canada being, or aspiring to be, or having a duty to be, a leader in the world: It's not self-evident, is it? I can't imagine the prime minister of, say, Belgium, saying such a thing. No offence to the Belgians: It's not a part of most nations' self-definition. It's usually found only in countries with a glorious past, like France or Britain, or in those with an ideological mission to the world: the Soviet Union, the United States. And Canada?
...
Implicit in Mr. Harper's address is a very different sort of nationalism: a nationalism of moral purpose. Canada exists to do good, for its own people and for the world. It is defined by its beliefs and measured by its acts, not by the virtues of its people, real or imagined. Indeed, it makes no claim to uniqueness in this regard, but rather upholds principles that are timeless and universal. But it aspires to be the best exemplar of these: in Mr. Harper's words, to "be a leader."

We are not used to being spoken to in such terms. But perhaps we are in a mood to listen. +
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1596681/posts

"Hey folks: Don't feed the trolls."

Hmmm, I noticed some people get instantly defensive as soon as the word troll came out. Cjunk wasn't naming names; keep your hair on, stay civil and keep up the intelligent diverse community

: )

Hey, Penny, I wasn't going to comment on this thread, but do appreciate your nod to me in your post of 11.28 PM yesterday. I consider it a great compliment.

I've been meaning to ask you how many years you have you spent living in which European countries to gain your fantastic expertise on social and political conditions there? Merely trying to find if your opinions are fact-based or x-hand.

You seem bloodthirsty enough to qualify for the position of "Bitch of Brampton" when you build a concentration camp there for political prisoners such as Jose, the two Steves and me.

Warmest personal regards, if you know what that means in diplomatic language.

Many Canadians seem mistaken and confused about what soldiers do.

They are not tasked to save lives like emergency medical workers or search and rescue.

Their task (when commanded) is to TAKE lives.

There is nothing harder or comparable.

To require soldiers to kill and then pretend that because they are Canadian soldiers they are doing otherwise is a liberal or "progressive" delusion.

To paraphrase Patton "My job is not to die for my country, my job is to make the other guy die for his."

no bozos allowed,

I agree with you. And I'm happy as a Canadian with the conduct of our troops. My comments were addressed at the United States.

There's no conflict between the waging of war and good ethics. In WW2 we captured, tried and executed Nazis. This is something I wholeheartedly approve of. I'd like to see the government officials of several countries (China and Myanamar spring to mind) eventually tried and if found guilty of crimes against humanity executed.

However there's a world of difference between Nuremberg and Guantomino Bay. That difference is unecessary and thinking otherwise cheapens personal liberty and hands a dangerous level of power to our governments.

Since when did the right become more trusting of Big Government than the left? Did the sides do some kind of pole swap when I wasn't looking?

Cuba is the perfect place for that prison.

The whole island is a prison.

As for the jihadis, they are in the custody of the USA military and if it is good enough for Americans it is absolutely good enough for them.

The lefties are BLOCKING their military trials.

p.s. How many bodies of Cuban innocents are on the bottom of the Florida Straits jose?

NO ONE knows and Canadians on the left CERTAINLY do not care.

Why don't you take up a cause for them? sarc

Jose, the problem is that the right now thinks it is Big Government, which puts the shoe on the other foot. And if we don't watch out, that shoe might morph into a jackboot.

How clever to notice that soldiers wear boots.

no bozos allowed "p.s. How many bodies of Cuban innocents are on the bottom of the Florida Straits jose?"

Sorry I've lost count of the number of people we human rights fanboys have sent to to the bottom of the sea. Do people we cut in half count as two people?

Major difference in today's means for clearing the deck for a clean start, is that the latest tool is nuclear and dirty as Satan himself. Nuclear sickness, something we don't talk about.

*(The Iranians) must know everything is on the table and they must understand what that means,* US ambassador to the United Nations John Bolton told a group of visiting British politicians last week.

*We can hit different points along the line. You only have to take out one part of their nuclear operation to take the whole thing down.* In other words, he was calmly proposing an illegal attack on a sovereign state, possibly involving nuclear weapons.

http://www.straightgoods.ca/ViewNote6.cfm?REF=48

Bolton knew his words would be leaked, so maybe it was just deliberate posturing to raise the pressure on Iran. But on Sunday, addressing the American-Israeli Public Affairs Committee in Washington, Bolton repeated the threat:

*The longer we wait to confront the threat Iran poses, the harder and more intractable it will become to solve ... We must be prepared to rely on comprehensive solutions and use all the tools at our disposal to stop the Threat…* He may really mean it — and no one in the White House has told him to shut up.
By Gwynne Dyer
TG

Re: jose: "Sorry I've lost count of the number of people we human rights fanboys have sent to to the bottom of the sea. Do people we cut in half count as two people?"

What a lame attempt at humour.

Tell it to Elian Gonzales. :0(

No Bozos,

Ask me a silly question and I'll give you a silly answer.

Bozo, how clever! But I do believe I specified "jackboots" not "combat boots," and trust that there will continue to be a perceptible difference between them.

The current problem?

http://healingiraq.blogspot.com/

In Zeyad's THIRD blog post, back on October 18, 2003, he wrote about Muqtada Al-Sadr:

Back to Al-Sadr. He speaks Arabic with an Iranian accent. And I'm sure he was living in Iran before the war, simply because we never heard of him before. Another problem is that he has formed an armed militia called 'Jaish Al-Mahdi' or Al-Mahdi's Army, they dress in black, and wear bands on their foreheads, and have creepy resemblance to Saddam's Fedayeen. I can spot a tyrant miles away. And this is one.

Time has only vindicated Zeyad's original assessment.

You may also want to read his post called "Some musing" from the same time.
10words.ca TG

jose Re:"Ask me a silly question",

Tell me why it is a silly question.

I am very serious about what is likely to be the remains of thousands of innocent Cubans that are on the bottom of the Florida Straits.

Can you begin to imagine what it was like, setting off on a home made raft across 90 miles of ocean.

Could you please try to answer without changing the subject.

agitfact, that is unless those boots "morph" like those right wingers shoes do. sarc

No bozos allowed "Tell me why it is a silly question."

I don't support Castro and have said nothing to suggest that I did. I argued you into a corner so you try to change the subject. My response was friendly ridicule.

You've heard the quote "It's not about them. It's about us."

It's not a very difficult concept to grasp really.

Re: Well the truth is out and Gitmo reeks to high heaven.

Is barely an argument.

The USA soldiers at Gitmo are volunteer reservists doing a very tough and a very dangerous job at the request of their President and Congress.

It is the left blocking the military trials for the prisoners at Gitmo. If you "human rights" folks are so concerned about them receiving due process, then quit deliberately delaying the tribunals.

Also, have you ever heard of the cactus wall? It is 20 feet thick and 12 feet high of prickly pear that Pres. For Life Castro planted around Gitmo to keep Cubans from trying to sneak in. I am saying jose, you can easily find people on Cuba who really need some care and attention and FOOD unlike Gitmo prisoners who by all reports have put on quite a bit of weight during their detention.

Hey Tony G...Hi!

Off topic but did you see Pres. Bush in upstate NY yesterday meeting with that young autisitic basketball player, JMac, who scored something like 24 points in a few minutes.

How great is that.

A really terrific story. Young JMac and his family and friends really deserve all the praise and attention.

"Human rights folks" delaying "due process" tribunals. Bozo, what planet are you blogging from?

The only process Gitmo prisoners face is secret military tribunals. The whole set-up is an embarassment deliberately set up to avoid international law in general and US law in particular, right from creating a new class of POW. That in itself should give any citizen of a presumed democracy pause. But who the hell needs habeas corpus when you have the bodies under your unrestricted control, right? And then you make the whole thing look and operate like a Nazi concentration camp to prove your leadership of the free world.

Talk about giving aid and comfort to your enemies! I guess I just don't understand.

no bozos allowed "The USA soldiers at Gitmo are volunteer reservists doing a very tough and a very dangerous job at the request of their President and Congress"

Actually its not the soldiers that are the problem its the brass. Several former Gtmo detainees report of making friends with their guards and saying that many if not most of the troops treated them like decent human beings. Apparently it became clear to many of the guards long ago that most of the detainees are innocent. Granted its all anecdotal reports, there aren't any official opinion polls on this matter. But no I don't necessarily have a quarrel with the soldiers working at Gtmo. I've got a problem with the government that they're taking their orders from.

These are the same "secret" military tribunals that Americans who commit crimes while in the military face.

Like I said, if it is good enough for Americans it is absolutely good enough (many people would say way too good ) for our jihadis enemys.

I GOTTA call bozo on someone who compares Gitmo to a Nazi concentration camp.

The two do not "morph".-sarc

Bozo, the Uniform Code of Military Justice does not call for indefinite detention, solitary confinement, shackling, blindfolding, interrogation under duress, ignorance of charges and evidence etc. ect. If I have missed the provisions calling for those, I rely on you to point them out. Why do you suppose those enemy combatants are not in Leavenworth or some other US stockade?

I should have mentioned the specific concentration camp I had in mind - Dachau, near Munich, built in 1933 specifically to hold political prisoners. My godfather was a guest there for eight years.

Would you please tell us all how much your poor godfather weighed when he was liberated from Dachau?

To compare Gitmo to a Nazi concentration camp is delusional.

You would introduce your godfathers detention by Nazis and eventual liberation, secured by the blood and treasure of the USA, to advance unfounded and unproven charges AGAINST the same USA now in charge of Gitmo.

Disgusting.

Bye.

agitfact, now embroidering personalized homilies about his family to support his credentials.......

....wasn't it was only recently too that "steve d" revealed he was 60ish and an honorable vet while spewing the more juvenile age appropriate leftist party line?

Just observing.

Penny...Steve D..is his own self...not me. There is also Steve in Ontario.

I am near 60...but not an honourable vet...no war service, just militia. I grew up on Canadian Army bases and cadet and militia service was just a family expectation. My "spewing the more juvenile age appropriate leftist party line" comes from years of work in social services and probations.

Bozo, I wasn't there when he got out, but I assume that your assumption of not very much is correct.

Given vicarious experience and some study, I am allergic to signs of fascism and disgusted to see the liberators are acting like the vanquished. Delusional I doubt, but might I suggest cognitive dissonance on your part?

Let's narrow the scope of our discussion to something verifiable. I called you on your assertion that Gitmo detainees faced the same justice as US servicemen, so put up or shut up.

Penny, your undignified ad hominem does not deserve a reply. No marks for this debating point.

Steve D..is his own self...not me

On the internet we all could be dogs with remarkable typing skills.

And, steve in bc, I, as well, worked a stint in corrections, one year as a psych nurse in a maximum security prison. After listening to all of the sociopathic and manipulative bs of the clients and reading their legal records, I realized that cons are cons. Most I would never want let loose on society again. It shaped my views.

Yes, ...the people we meet on the job and in the street. Lies and cons I expect...what bothers me are the ones who are evil and like it.

..what bothers me are the ones who are evil and like it.

Me too.

Check out Theodore Dalrymple at City Journal. He's a British writer and recently retired prison psychiatrist. Search by author on the home page.

He's conservative definately, occassionaly a bit prudish, but well reasoned and thought provoking.

Bozos permitted... Agit fact, I've been refereeing your exchanges. I declare Bozos Allowance the winner.

I'm purely unbiased on the basis Bozo is more inclined to see the positive side.

Bozo's point about how much does one weigh after a stint in Auswtiz [sp] compared to Gitmo, was the clincher.

AgitFact.. win some, lose some. You'll do better next time. TG

This is addressed to all the MLA's and MP's in Canada. Isn't the war in Iraq and Afghanistan a make work project? How many of your son's and daughter's are over there? Me thinks not many if any.