On Jesus and Porcine Fellation from Grandinite
Kate blew the lid off a story about the student newspaper at USask publishing a cartoon of Jesus fellating a pig, and it’s reached statospheric proportions, having been picked up by Canada.com and Fark. It looks like plenty of readers of the c... [Read More]

Tracked on March 8, 2006 2:43 PM

Christian Cartoon Crusades! from MY Vast Right Wing Conspiracy
APOSTASY! BLASPHEMY! Burn the embassies! Burn their flag! Boycott Canadian products! Boycott their beer…and…and…I dunno, whatever the hell else they make! Goofy movies, or hockey or something! I just got a text message that sai... [Read More]

Tracked on March 8, 2006 7:09 PM

A Response From the Cartoonist from Verum Serum
The cartoonist who created the capitalist piglet cartoon has now responded in the comments section of the Small Dead Animals post about this. There is also a longer and somewhat confusing defense published in the new edition of The Sheaf out today. Fir... [Read More]

Tracked on March 9, 2006 1:57 PM

Well said Kate,
Too many things are taken for "grant"ed

"..demonstrate the courage of their left-wing convictions."

That would take too long. I say fire-bomb their houses - death to the infidel and all that - as it seems to be quite effective these days.

And where the hell is PETA? Thought they'd be all over this one.

I wonder if we capitalists can use that piggy thing, good god, as much as I despise all those "hate speech" laws and commisions and what not, seeing some lefty idiot hoist on that petard would be very hard not to smile about.

Schadenfreude - it's not just for lefties anymore.

Yes the Human Rights Commission was taking it a bit far, but then again,it was wrong to post it.

Substitute your PC minority group and then suddenly it is alright to complain as we are standing up for equal rights.

Ironically, and if anything, this is a debate on protecting our freedom of speech, not surpressing it.

Kate:

Having a lazy streak, I'll just repeat a comment I made on a previous thread. Did you see it, BTW?

Think of it this way:

The interesting part of all this cartoon foolishness, (Mohammad insult, no, Christian insult, yes) is the context, not the content.
It's a University publication. A University was supposed to teach you how to think, but it has become a reality that to get an Arts degree, you must merely regurgitate whatever a particular prof thinks, and by extension what the institution thinks. Ergo, "Capitalist Piglet".
Where is "Socialist Piglet"?
Again, context.
On the positive side, the kid who drew that cartoon, and the kids who publish the Sheaf, have likely gotten more genuine "education" from this entire canard than a year of university provides!

One of my favourite T-shirt slogans comes to mind;

"I Have A Liberal Arts Degree...
Would You Like Fries With That?"

Which shines a baleful light on the diminishing value of a U of S "education" in the real world.

Kate:

Maybe it's time for another "editorial" from you, a la 'Best of SDA', asking what these kids are really learning in this institution. And who's teaching. On our dime. I doubt very much that most working taxpayers really know.

Posted by Mad Mike at March 6, 2006 12:35 PM

If there really is hate shown by the cartoon towards, so-called, capitalists, the irony is that it would be hate directed towards the cartoonish Marxian understanding of free enterprise.

Capitalism was invented by Marx as a foil for his theory of communism. He had to have an invented group as a foil because individualist free enterprise is not a unified economic force.

Students should pay 100% of education costs. They get the benefit. The benefit to society is that there would be fewer socialists.

Kate:

Another item. You were on the CFQC TV news last night. Of course all they mentioned was "a blog", not your blog. I noticed the camera shot of a computer screen twice, once cropped to show only the cartoon label, and once to show your blog page, carefully out-of-focus.
They don't want to give credit to the newest competition, do they?

I wonder if all the lefties in Schools today remember how one of the most famous lefties dealt with adversity, greed, and corruption... I refer of course to Stalin.

"All aboard the train to Siberia... except you Mr. Teacher, can I get you to just follow that nice man with the gun to the other side of the building."

In our PC world today, TV and movies can no longer depict "bad guys" who are members of any ethnic or racial group (e.g., Mafia, Islamic terrorists, etc.) so the "safe" target group is corrupt business leaders who literally kill off the competition! Many years back I recall a PBS program that examined students' attitudes towards business. They framed it around the then-popular TV show "Dallas", where corporate greed, corruption, etc. was a recurring theme. Students commented that they realized that this was fiction and believed that it did not influence their opinion of real businesses. However, when these same students' attitudes about business were subsequently suveyed, they noted that many students believed that business leaders would commit murder to improve corporate profits. No wonder so many people today believe capitalism is evil. Yes, I know there have been some big corporate scandals recently, but I don't believe they involved murder for profit! After 28 years in the (mostly) honest real world of capitalism, I am constantly offended at how the media portrays business.

Let's start with the local highschools. I've tangled several times now with local Saskatoon highschool teachers who were Che Guevera worshippers, pushing their crap aggressively during classtime. Michael Boore, Noam Chomsky, and so-called docuementaries like F-911 and The Corporation were shown and treated like fact. 90% of the students believed the teachers in question and the dissenters were treated like fools. When I challenged the teachers they backtracked like the cowards they were, but continued until a call to a superintendant got some of the Che posters and attitude trimmed.

In fairness, there are one or two rightwing teachers I know that go too far as well, and could use a trimming. What ever happened to giving kids a balanced approach.

I ask, do you know what is going on in your child's classroom? Do you know what is going on on your campus... much of which you fund with your tax dollars? To think that we as the general public have no input is wrong, we can at the very least demand balance in all educational institutions. I don't know where the U of S is at today, but when I attended in the 80's, it was a nest of Socialism, mostly in the humanities departments; and the socialogy department might as well have been the local CCCP headquarters. The proffs were all kickbacks to the 60's and Castro/Trudeaupia worshippers. The few among them who were not stood out like roses among thorns.

I'd like to hear from students who are on campusses now. What's it like?

Well said, Kate. You nailed it exactly as it is ... and exactly as it should be. As the last few days have passed, I have drifted past my initial anger and rage at this totally unacceptable insult to our society ( which includes everyone of faith of any stripe, and those who profess no religion). I still am hoping that Y!th and his budds, will find out the true results of their totally stupid actions.I do believe that anyone can make a mistake, but I do not and will never, believe that this was a simple mistake. I am, like you Kate, a little skeptical of how our "politically correct" Human rights commission will react to the many complaints received. It is my sincere hope is that Y!th and those of like mind( or lack of mind, as it were) will find out the real results of their actions will come from how they are received by an enraged public. Like it or not, this has more to do with common decency than it does about anything else. I believe that we all tend to try to stretch the boundaries when we are young. Looking, back, I can hardly believe some of the things we did when in college. It does seem to me though, that we did some crazy things, but there was always a "magical line" that we understood was not to be crossed without consequences resulting. I think we need to allow our youth to find themselves, but we also need to teach them that they also have to pay the price for their own stupid stunts, that cross the decency line. I firmly believe that a true mistake only occurs when it is repeated. I hope this will become a "life lesson" for Y!th and others of like mind. Somehow, I sense from his posts that he hasn't learned a thing. Too bad! Too sad!
As my outrage wanes and my anger subsides, I now see this event as possibly being a milepost for us all. Maybe there are lessons for us all. Maybe we need to cut through some of this political correctness bull s**t and call a spade a spade and a wrong a wrong, as many of us finally did when our decency was challenged past it's breaking point. But we also need to do more than whine about all the wrongs we see in society. We also need to commend the good stuff we see. We need to raise the good to a higher level so that Y!th and his friends have something to strive towards. As the old saying goes, "you an attract more flies with sugar than you can with vinegar"
To Y!th( all the other Y!th's out there)I would say, we will find forgiveness in time, only after we see that you have learned something from your actions. If you don't learn, well, you deserve to spend your life probably working in some extreme leftist organization, totally unable to see the good in our society and only able to bitch and moan about it. To me, Hell would seem like a better place. Only you can make the decisions to where you want to go in your life. Wake up and smell the coffee.

Part of the problem with this cartoon is trying to relate to those that are in favour of it, the level of disgust the rest of us feel. How do you communicate one's level of outrage to a limp-wristed leftie? What's a good "moral equivelency" that would bring said socialists to the same level of outrage?

Hmmm, let's see...you could call Oprah the "C" word? Call Hillary Clinton the "B" word? Suggest "Brokeback" be re-released with two queer goat herding fundamentalist Muslims in the leading roles? Remind them that even their messiah, Karl Marx had to seek employment in the capitalist system (he worked for a printing company) because spewing rhetoric atop an apple box all day was tiring and didn't pay the bills. Tough choices.

I like the prospect of having these modern day hippie wannabes having to cough up the full freight for their alleged education. Nothing makes you take something serious like having to pay for it yourself!

Kate - excellent post - no wonder yours is about the only blog I still visit!!!

Your questioning of whether the U of S lefties would take your suggestions to heart is laughable - I have found that lefties look to the right for all the blame and neglect to look in the mirror to see what is looking back at them!

I cannot tell you how disgusted I am with the cartoon. I am not going to riot or throw stones. I will just pray for those who have pepetrated this monstousity, as they obiously need a lot of help.

Right now the universities are pushing for more government funding. No doubt Harper will give them something but we do have an opportunity to require something in return. And Kate, I'm still "choking" over that "swallow" at the end of your post.

Now that the Sheaf has cemented their apology to an "editorial mistake", seeing as a small oversite let this Jesus blowing a pig comic through the defence lines, and does not represent the usual actions of the paper.

So I guess the Sheaf has never before run a comic mocking a religious faith before this one slipped onto it's pages.

It would be difficult for the Sheaf to hold this moral high ground if one or more catoons surfaced from back issues, and established that the paper regularly printed offensive material to Christians or other religious groups while at the same time holding an apparent double standard for Muslims.

Or maybe nobody bothers keeping back issues?

What these little anti-capitalists need is a semester abroad in Cuba the last bastion of the communist "worker's paradise". No extras either.

They can sit droning platitudes without debate in Cuban classrooms. They can hustle to find extra rice and laundry soap before dinner. They can write a term paper on the wasted efficiency and degradation of a barter economy.

They should live paired with random Cuban families making it possible that a few of them will learn a useful trade like boat building from scrap and celestial navigation at night.

You and I know that the coven of Marxist professors on campuses, of which there are plenty, wouldn't last a year living the life of a regular Cuban. Why these bold faced liars of an empirically proven failed system continue to spew Marxism at our kids and get away with it is beyond me.

I fail to see any relationship to Christianity in that cartoon other than the "Jesus Christ" as exclamation.

As for the poor attempt at imitating the marxists of past generations, its pathetic. By the University rag standards of the late sixties / early seventies that cartoon would have been considered mild and amateurish. Many of those responsible in those days, have gone on to become fat-cat capitalists.

Ignore them, you're making Zundle's out of them. Let the prepies play in their sandbox, sooner or later they will have to enter the real world.

isn't publically funding a university leftist. Having to pay 100% of their education costs seems pretty capitalist to me, so I don't understand how that would teach them the realities of a society without capitalism.

ps. interesting enough STM, where the cartoon creators supposedly attend school, has been the most prominent institution at the university to attempt to remove private funding. This was most notable in their refusal to place Coke machines in their building, at the cost of losing incentives from Coke.

sorry my mistake with regards to STM. They simply refused their share of money coming to university from Coca-Cola I think.

I've been silent in this mess up until now. Not because I was not outraged, but because I did not believe that my outrage and anger would make a difference. Or maybe, I have been desensitized to this kind of university rag crap. Personally, when I saw the cartoon, the first thing I thought is that it was like most any cartoon in any university "newspaper" I have seen. At my undergrad university, where we paid mandatory fees for the creation of smut, the same type of creation could be seen from time to time. I hated it then, I still hate it now.

As a conservative, both small and uppercase c, with a liberal arts degree, I dealt (and still deal) with many of the complaints about academia that are often heard here. However, I personally view it as an opportunity to understand the other side's arguments, so I can strengthen my own. I came out of one of the most left minded schools a stronger conservative than when I went in. I knew the weakness of my arguments and sought to strengthen them. Unfortunately, I was always a minority. In political science classes, I was often the only voice of the right, amongst a sea of leftist theories. That leads me to my final point, one which was mentioned above: the problem must be starting earlier than university. Whether it be the public education system or even parental malaise, I don't know, but I do know that many university students' minds are already shaped before they step foot on campus. Once they are there, the freedom to "become their own person" fosters the illusion that means they can do what they will, consequences be damned.

Do I think the end of subsidization is the solution? No, education is one of very few areas I believe the government needs to be financially involved in at great levels. But I do believe, that the schools that rely more on corporate donations often have a more balanced sensitivity within. (Sure, naming a room or building after a company like Imperial Tobacco gives the leftists something to scream about too, which I always got a kick out of - watching the protests right after a class in which those same students used the new technologies made available by donations from the company they sought to vilify - but then again, I never thought the left understands irony very well, and hypocrisy is another story altogether.)

Reading some of the comments at Fark makes me nauseous at the number of punks supporting the cartoon.

Scary.

OK, eveyone.
Ignore, for just a moment, the attack on a religion.
The whole thing is framed by "Capitalist Piglet"!
Shouldn't the attack on capitalism be an important concern? Considering the source?
Why do we blithely ACCEPT that our universities are rotten with socialist crap? That is the insult. That is the greater danger to our free and capitalist society.
Again, Where is the cartoon strip called "Socialist Piglet"?
There's 2 issues here, not just one. And in the long run, the anti-capitalist atmosphere of our institutions (which we pay for) is the more salient point.

What really matters is that this cartoon must not be investigated anymore than the Muhammed cartoon. This is supposed to be a free country.

Both were seen as very insensitive by their targets.

One difference that should be investigated perhaps is the ways the targets have reacted. Burning and killing on the one hand, debating (and some calls for censorship) on the other.
It certainly shows that Christendom has been forced to become civilized through liberalism and enlightenment, whereas Islam still hasn't reached their enlightenment period.

Where all these opinions and dissecting of the childish antics of some naive university students are mostly well thought out and intelligent,are we not barking up the wrong tree?
In high school,my friends and I "published" newsletters as vile and anti-establishment as this.Has no one ever read Hustler?

Now here we sit,again hurling insults and accusations at fellow Canadians as to where they sit on the political and religious planes.Have we forgotten where all this started?Propagandists
fueled by their desire to exterminate us and these freedoms we debate here today.

These stupid,attention-seeking,unworldly kids have played perfectly into the hands of terrorists half-way around the world,now the rest of us seem all to gleeful to follow.

Am I the only one who feels like a puppet on a string?....I thrive on a good debate like most of you here,just think we are being manipulated to feed on our own.The very real enemy our society faces today is not some immature egomaniacs at the U of S.

You know, it really cracks me up that people are so outraged. Typical hypocrisy among Xian types. The Danish cartoons are "just cartoons" but since "Capitalist Piglet" defames Christianity it's "lefist this and leftist that".

All religion is stupid and has slowed the progress of humanity for thousands of years via holy wars, the Inquisition, jihads, draconian laws, etc. based on words written long ago an interpreted by power-mad control freaks to keep their flocks in line.

Any intelligent person should be able to see religion for the command and control mechanism that it is but still, in 2006 we still base much of our lives on ridiculous superstitions.

Get over it. It's just a cartoon.

Sorry, most of you got it. And got ahead of me on the keyboard.
I think we should all be taking a closer look at both the curriculum and the professors at these schools.
I left the U of S in the early 80's, disgusted with the attitude of many profs. Evidently nothing has changed there.
It should. I'd be willing to debate the merits of freedom and capitalism with these clowns. Anytime. I will only charge one dollar. Anybody else?

;)

yes it is interesting to see that most people on here are more outraged about socialism than they are about a religious insult.

Human rights commissions can be an ugly vindictive little tool.

Ask the print shop operator who was judged by one such 'animal', in Ontario I believe, to be guilty for refusing to print material he felt to be against his beliefs.

He was fined some thousands of dollars, even though there were many other shops who would have taken the money without comment.

It appeals in some tiny way, to hold those responsible for publishing this set of images, *also responsible* for standing behind 'their product' before a tribunal of other than their peers.

Standing behind one's product, or service, or publication is a sizable function of being a business owner, a capitalist.

How does it feel now, knowing that some folks are waiting to spike that call to the Commission, which will know what to do with it from there....sadly?

Some are handing in resignations, and graduating soon, but that doesn't release them from complaints arising from this in the future.

Also troubling is that this paper does NOT pay its own way.

Does it respect those that *do*?

Does it matter?

What does the public do with that, besides cause a good dust-up, bringing it into focus to a larger audience?

And....Any bets more eyes will be on *all* of the student union papers for future content now?

Perhaps that will be penalty enough.... a kind of teaching tool if you like, about who actually pays the freight in the public systems.....what supply and demand and good business sense does in the real world.

Supporters of the editorial staff have a finer edge to walk explaining this to their communities.

A reasoned tone generally earns the ear.

Nat, very good points.

Personally, I feel this nonsense that has degraded so many universities/colleges will not stop until parents/the public demand academic diversity. State level bills demanding academic diversity are being drafted in a few states here.

Universities should be fair and balanced marketplaces of ideas not indoctrination camps of bad science and lame ideology. Look at Larry Summers demise.

Marxism is a failed idea by every empirical measure. It's bad science to say otherwise, but the hacks and ideologues keep the falsehood alive. Conservatives are so frozen out of positions that there is no meaningful voice to challenge their garbage.

I beg everyone who is concerned to spend some time at David Horowitz's site. He was an old radical lefty that saw the light and understanding firsthand the left's dangerousness has been documenting and exposing them for years. His book and articles on campus radicals are eye-openers.

As someone in business and a corporate type I want to thank Kate for pointing out what should have been an obvious point in this debate but was largely missed but everyone.

I copied this posting and filed it a while back.

The commenter said he was a human resources executive who was writing the advice that he was not allowed to say out loud at work.

"Who To Hire"

•Must have at least some base level of hygiene.

• Are easy to get along with

• Are interested in the company’s success.

• Are not self-centered narcissists.

• Are not negative about work.

• Have not sued other people or organizations.

• Smiles more than he or she frowns.

• Who is there mentally and not somewhere else.

• Who treats others with respect, not arrogance

•must not feel justified to steal

•must not lie to suit themselves

* must understand profits are essential to the health of a company.

Avoid those

* who hate others on the basis of their race or gender

• Shows no motivation to learn and work

• Whines about their life, whether true or not

• Are pretty miserable all the time—like a perpetual bad mood

• Will back-stab, gossip, and make up things to suit themselves.

• Shows no interest in being part of a team

* Demonstrates no understanding of basic economics or business principles.

"The very real enemy our society faces today is not some immature egomaniacs at the U of S.
Posted by Canadian Observer at March 8, 2006 11:50 AM"

Canadian Observer,

Those little commies at U of S are just as much the enemy as those terroroists half way around the world. They do their work for them and their work is to destroy our way of life.

They should not be let off lightly. They should be held to account. They will take their beliefs with them out into the world and continue to work against the greater society.

Most of them will wind up working in government offices or classrooms since they don't have the right attitude to work for a capitalist piglet.

They are evil people and they are indeed dangerous. There are several countries now involved in shooting the muslim terrorists in their own lands, but who is shooting the terrorists right here at home?

These students are enemy combantants in my view and should be charged for aiding and abetting the terrorists who share their contempt for our way of life. A bit extreme? ... these are extreme times.

Religion is not stupid, & I'm speaking as an atheist. For many people it seems to provide purpose to their lives, and gives them support in situations that they may otherwise be unable to deal with.

Much of the Left appears to despise religion, particularily Christianty, probably seeing it as a competitor for "command & control".

Yes, there certainly has been injustices done in the name of religion; if we want to refer to the injustices commited underCommunism, the Left can hardly claim to be free from the same guilt.

While I don't proclaim to be a perfect Christian, nor a spokesman for the faith, I find it interesting the amount of scholars out there telling me how I should react when I see Jesus portrayed as a BJ'er.

While for others, the protest is about the Sheaf being hypocritical not publishing one cartoon and then turning around and publishing the other.

But wait, the term "hypocritical" would mean there has to be some standard in place to gauge by - and from what I see in the editorial process of the paper and the skills of the so called cartoonists, this seems to be lacking.

Just for the record, I think the cartoon was lacking in taste and if this was some dipwad magazine, I'd probably would have ignored it.

Seeing the Danish cartoons have been out since September, it wouldn't be right to publish the Danish cartoons now if we knew they would offend Muslims.

Likewise, it wouldn't right to publish Capitalist Pig cartoons if we knew they would offend Christians or Jews to prove a point.

I have to ask, to what purpose? If one needs to prove freedom of speech, then maybe they never really had it at all.

cheers
tom

Duke!!

Thank you for proving my point so well!!

They are NOT evil,they're just stupid kids blindly trusting their profs until they reach the real world.

and obviously duke is at about the same level as them

OK correction. ORGANIZED religion is the problem.

If someone needs a fairy tale to get them through life, they are free to follow whichever one they want.

The minute someone else starts exploiting this then the problems start re: command and control. The problems continune when these same people want to regulate the behavior of those who do not require such crutches as religion, or as is the case here denouncing one "offensive" cartoon while defending another set because they happen to slag Islam. I consider myself a fiscal conservative and extreme civil libertarian, and honestly, if the right could just loose the religious bunk and stop trying to legislate morality then it would probably be more popular among sensible people.

Just came from the Fark...

Erk...feel like I gotta shower or something now.

Oh well, if everyone thought like me, we'd be a perfect society...

;-)

Kate,
I was wondering why you have keep this post in such a prominent position, Thought it might just be to keep us busy while you were busy in the paint booth.

But your "tangent" as you call it cuts through the rest of the rhetoric and hits the nail right on the head.

"That these small-minded refugees of Marxism are receiving a heavily subsidized education at an institution funded by tax revenues.."

They are funded by the very system that they wish to destroy.

It shouldn't be taken for granted that more students studying for more years will improve our world. The reason that so many can do this is because of generous government subsidies and loans.

Another concern put forward by Mark Steyn was something to the effect that:

- keeping large numbers of people in the education system until their mid to late 20's delays adolesce to such an extent that they have a difficult time becoming adults and assuming their responsibilities as such.

The baby boomers made perpetual adolesce an art.
The later generations have made it into a science.

Thanks for keeping the spot light on this.
You have highlighted the foolishness of our current education system. I hope that the MSM and the population in general wake up to this ongoing threat to our society.

Paul,

You shouldn't assume that all people here that hate this cartoon did not feel the same about the Danish cartoons. I personally hated both. But I am more offended by the choice to responsibily decline publishing one set, while negligently (or purposefully, whichever is true) publishing one which will invoke similar offense to another religious group. It is this double standard that is appalling. I believe in free speech, but believe those that advocate for free speech cannot do so without recognition of consequences.

Paul:

You're from Fark, aren't you.

To those of you who do not frequent it: The political and religious threads on Fark.com are populated largely by the sort of people who got kicked off Democratic Underground for being too far LEFT.

I can't tell you how many times I've seen Farkers making arguments that boil down to nothing more complicated than "All Religion Is Poison, And By The Way, Bush Is A C-nt."

Penny,

Diversity in academia exists, you just have to look harder to find it. Unfortunately, not many students desire to put that effort in. There are some that do, but not many. It makes me remember the maxim of many students: D is for Degree. It is sad to me that there are students that do not see the future value of their efforts, or any effort for that matter.

I think my favorite part of this whole uproar was the response by the artistic genius Y!ph in the origional thread, where he excuses his cartoon by saying he published it to "open some eyes".

Because you know, the rest of us all walk around with our eyes shut, right?

Sorry, that should be:

THE CREED OF FARK
1. All Religion Is Poison
1a. Christianity Is Particularly Corrupt And Evil
1b. All Religious People Need To Fuck Off And Die, Like, Right Now
2. America Is Evil
2a. Everything That Is Wrong With The World Is Our Fault
2b. Bush Is A Cunt
2c. Bush Is Stupid
2d. Bush Is Evil
2e. Bush Is Hitler
2f. Bush Is Hitler
2g. Bush Is Hitler

Check out what Rick Mercer is up to.
it's actually funny for him.

http://tinyurl.com/n6dxu

Well yes, of course that's too hard to swallow, the whole premise behind the leftist mantra is that the state pay for everything - they also own everything, and control everything, and it collapsed for a reason that they don't get.

How come we never idealize capitalism. For centuries we have idealized the theory of socialism, and when it failed in practice we blamed falible mankind. But just for mo, fancy capitalism idealized. All children would be educated to the best of their ability, the better to serve the system. Medical treatment would be based on the profit motive but working on the margins that the market would impose. All would recieve treatment, for it is advatageous to the system not to waste human capital. Art would have to appeal to the public and not just an acredited elite. Those who fall through the cracks would recieve effective treatment based on theories that work as opposed to treatment which keeps them where they are, and provides employment for "social scientists". I could go on. The point is why is socialim the only path to a heaven on earth (not that I belive in such a thing)? Why can't we have a fanciful capitalism to counter the equally fanciful socialist ideal?

Just a thought.

The net result of cartoons of religion seem more to cause hate and resentment between different groups while *Humour* is almost incidental.

Cartoons serve the Jihadists as fuel for their rampages and cover for the stealth of warlords who we allowed to take positions in Afghan government.

Those warlords are wolves in sheeps clothing and our troops are at tremndous risk. This comes from Abdule Saraf. Saraf is a true Afghan leader on the side of citizens.

The Afghan conflict opposes the opium industry, the Mafia, the Jihadists and those who enjoy total dictitoral power. Ominous.

The Russians backed years ago. We can not afford to do the same. The momentum that will give to Jihadists will imprision millions of muslims in Burkhas and lock millions out of schools. TG

The Russians backed out, that is.

""That these small-minded refugees of Marxism are receiving a heavily subsidized education at an institution funded by tax revenues.."

They are funded by the very system that they wish to destroy"

Are you joking? Do you even know what the left or socialism is? I'm assuming you dont because of your statement. Socialism basically is a more prominent role of government(eg. crown corps, public health care, PUBLIC EDUCATION) Your so called Leftists are not funded by the system they want to destroy. Saskatchewan has a mixed economy where the government provides subsidies to the university through the use of tax revenues. If they were funded by the system they wanted to destroy it WOULDN'T be tax dollars funding them, it would the students paying their own way.

and jason we do idealize capitalism. That's why North America has a primarily free market.

....if the right could just loose the religious bunk and stop trying to legislate morality then it would probably be more popular among sensible people.

Paul, get a grip. There is a large percentage of the Right that isn't religious. Stop the assumptions. And please point to where the all-powerful religious right have won anything of significance. They can't even have a public nativity creche or clean up porn or the Piss Christ artists.

The US and Canada aren't theocracies.

Your angry diatribe against Christianity reveals an intolerance that isn't very becoming to an alleged educated and balanced person.

More people have perished under godless fascism and communism then religion in the past enlightened century. Maybe more God and less State would have averted the catastrophe.

Anyone that starts off with ALL religions are bad is dismissable. And, most religions are organized whether you are Navajo or Jewish because religion is a heritage and part of a culture.

Your so called Leftists are not funded by the system they want to destroy. Saskatchewan has a mixed economy where the government provides subsidies to the university through the use of tax revenues.

Duh, where do you think the tax revenues come from?

I have always heard that the "A " students usually end up working for the "C" students, once they get out in the real world. After several years of thinking about this, I think there are exceptions. Some ( not all) of the "A" students end up in academia as Professor this or that, simply because they could not exist on their own anywheres else. So we allow this group to dream about life as it should be and allow then to teach our children. I had some amazing teachers at the U of S, but there were also a bunch of off the wall leftists who probably would have trouble finding their ass with both hands.
But then, there are another group of " A" students who have gone out and made a difference. Our beautiful and talented Kate probably falls in this group. We really need more Kate's in our society... people who are not afraid to really live life.. people who are able to use logic... people who know the difference between right and wrong, without having an extremist view. People who can laugh .. even at themselves from time to time,people who are extremely intelligent and who know how to sift through the crap to the real issues at hand. My personal thanks go to Kate for bringing us all provocative thought and debate. If you ever decide to run for politics, I personally will take 3 weeks off and work 24-7 for your campaign. It kinda has a nice ring to it... Prime Minister Kate....

"
"Your so called Leftists are not funded by the system they want to destroy. Saskatchewan has a mixed economy where the government provides subsidies to the university through the use of tax revenues."

"Duh, where do you think the tax revenues come from"

You can't be serious. Of course some taxes come from businesses(Not a majority. Of course our economy is mixed. No lefty in the Canada would be stupid enough to want a pure socialist economy. Taxing businesses in order to pay for public education is an aspect of socialism. Thats what I'm trying to get across PUBLIC EDUCATION IS SOCIALIST BY DEFINITION. How could removing tax funding, wherever it comes from, be considered socialist.

Of course some taxes come from businesses(Not a majority.

Heh, if the taxes don't come from business, it comes those who work for business.

Thats what I'm trying to get across PUBLIC EDUCATION IS SOCIALIST BY DEFINITION.

Of course it is, but socialists wish to destroy the free enterprise that funds the socialism.

Socialists would distract us with cartoons and various other fluff to dirvert our attention from this reality.
listen to part two:

http://www.cbc.ca/thecurrent/2006/200603/20060308.html

http://tinyurl.com/rmpjb

ok fair enough ol hoss. If thats what you think thats fine, but I have never met a socialist who wants to destroy free enterprise. Most simply want to have increased taxes and funding for things such as public education.

Most simply want to have increased taxes and funding for things such as public education.

Increasing taxes drives away business, in turn drives away people, in turn lowering tax revenue. That's why Sask. has so few people while having as many or more resources than Alberta.

Not a bad thing so far as I'm concerned, I like lot's of room:)

Jason, the french coined the word for capitalism as an ideal, its call "laissez faire". The problem with it is it translates into "Leave to do", as in you can do what ever you need to do.

Unfortunately, the Marxist left decided it was synonomous with "Don't care". As a result, it's almost a dirty word now.

The best example of a "laissez faire" economy is, of course, the US, while we hold to a mixed economy of social and capitalist sentiment.

Anyway, the students at UofS are just kids, and when they go out and get real lives, with real problems, and real Tax assessments that don't give them returns, when they've discovered that the best they can hope for is that at least once in their lives they will get a red letter from Revenue Canada, (I pray every year for a second one) then they will understand how much better it was when they were kids.

In the meantime, their just dumb kids, fucking around... just like most of us did when we were that age.

Nothing like a re-assessment from Rev Can to make you grow up to hate Socialism.

of course, Kate, if you had the courage of your convictions, you'd be enlisting in the Marines when you're stateside. In fact, all the soft, pudgy, right wing blog people could do likewise; if they had the courage of their convictions. osama

RE: human rights commission

That is something that could NEVER happen in the U.S. a "human rights commission" that is?

Why? you may ask.

Because it sounds like something right out of the Stalinist purges.

And Canadians think Steven Harper is scary?

You people ARE ASLEEP!

kmm - I feel that socialists by definition want to redistribute wealth. They want to unevenly tax the most hardworking, cleverest, thriftiest and most entreprenurial members of society in order to subsidize the less competent.

The benefactors of this redistribution keep them in power.

I'm not saying that the truly sick, impaired and handicapped shouldn't be subsidized.

That's why I'm in favor of a flat tax across the board. It's fair.

Hey osama,
If you had the courage of YOUR convictions, you would come out of your rat hole and face the US Marines.

Since you're not really OBL himself, but a soft coddled leftist, why don't you go to Iraq and be a human shield for your beloved "minute-men?"

Chicken-dove.

Osama, anyone of US citizenship, regardless of residency or dual status, upon reaching the age of 18 and/or under 35, is required by law to register for the draft.

So said God... I mean Ronald Reagan. Who inadvertantly seriously screwed up my sking vacation as a result when I turned 21.

You should be thankful that law doesn't exist here.

Great post, Kate. I was a sheep for five years, but in the end, the attempted indoctrination I received into the pomosocialist/moral relativist groupthink did not work.

There are many great professors across the country, but much of the arts and humanities
faculties are not trying to teach critical thinking; they are trying to define Critical Thought. It is Clooney Bravery: criticize capitalism, Christianity and a high standard of living in a free country. Islamofascism, Theo van Gogh and people facing Taliban oppression are on their own and in a detached, theoretical manner are really victims of White Male Patriarchal Capitalist Imperialism. There were much more pressing issue to discuss, such as transgendered washrooms.

In 2004, whilte still fairly leftie, I was told by a professor that I should read The Communist Manisfesto, after writing that communism had been proven not to recognize human rights. She said that the USSR hadn't been "real" communism.
Now that I'm working and funding this shit (as opposed to screaming in front of the the legislature to pay even less of the tuition myself), I'm pissed. I share your offense as a proponent of capitalism, Kate.

Some pimply lefty punk rages at the keyboard using "osama" as a handle, now that's original.

kmm
The marxist anticapitalists admittedly hate the evil capitalists.
Capitalists are subhuman gay swine, apparently for the U of S Sheaf reading students.

Only money created by captilists contribute to the tax base.
There is no other money, there is no other part to your "mixed economy".

So take away the hated capitalists money that pays for their anticapitalist marxist education and the marxists have ...nothing, just a proven marxist lie for an ideal.

kmm - I feel that socialists by definition want to redistribute wealth. They want to unevenly tax the most hardworking, cleverest, thriftiest and most entreprenurial members of society in order to subsidize the less competent.

The benefactors of this redistribution keep them in power.

I'm not saying that the truly sick, impaired and handicapped shouldn't be subsidized.

That's why I'm in favor of a flat tax across the board. It's fair.

Posted by penny at March 8, 2006 02:05 PM"

apparently I'm not making myself clear enough. The perils of jumping between studying and posting on the internet I guess.
I know too much socialism can be bad and I know not enough of it can be bad, but I wasn't argueing either way. I was simply saying that removing public funding for the university is a lessening of socialism. So I just don't see how this would make them realize that socialism is bad and capitalism is good. Obviously any student that sees their tuition double or whatever will want to go back to the more socialist method of subsidization through tax revenue. Notice I'm not saying pure socialism, I understand that lots of tax of revenue does come from the free market.

um richfisher, have you ever been to saskatchewan. We have these little things called crown corporation(ie. publicly owned business) Admittedly they don't match the private sector for profits, but they still exist, thus making a mixed economy.

Also a mixed economy isn't they only part of socialism. A province could have a completely private market, yet tax it in order to pay for public funds and it would be considered socialist.

For some reason Minister of Complex Files comes to mind. lol

kmm - south of the border, i had one kid choose a state subsized university and another choose a non-subsidized expensive private college. trust me, younger daughter carrying a hefty amount of student loans is more appreciative of capitalism. she has to hussle more to pay those loans and will never appreciate a government that wants to tax her more. our retirement is shot to hell, but that was our individual choice, too.

all tax money basically comes from the free market.

americans, i think, are bigger risk takers because we can still be. we have less government on our backs. i'll take that anyday over socialism.

Courage,... like posting under a mass murderers name who's presently cowering in a cave.

You could self detonate yourself if you were'nt such a pussy, Osama.

hey penny thats a good point. I still think that suddenly cutting funding to the u of s would serve no purpose other than to alienate the students.

IMO, the only action that should be taken against the University, the paper, or the authors is exactly the action that is being taken. More speech.

If those involved decide, as a result of this speech to self-censor, then that is their choice to make. Forcing them to do so under threat of governmental action is overkill, and may well be a decision that comes back to haunt those calling for it.

So much anger tsk tsk
Listen folks these are young people kicking at the boundaries. In this case the boundaries of a "free" press and "freedom" of speech.
We want them to test boundaries and challenge assumptions don't we?????
Besides, these kids have been brought up on the syrup of Capitalism. It's good for you and everyone else. No one tells them about the dark side and dark history of Capitalism until they get to University. So they are a little angry that they've been lied to by media and parents. Not so much for what they've been told but for what they haven't been told. So they rebel for a little while. We all know that when they graduate they will resume their totally predictable existence as carriers of the flame of Canadian Ideals. So relax everyone.

William, I believe that draft registration may be required for all residents of the USA, regardless of citizenship.

Also one must register at 18, not 21 and what has that got to do with Pres. Reagan? The draft and the draft registry were around way before his terms.

Also there is NO draft, a rather important point you "forgot" to include in your lame complaint about your ski vacation.

Why can't we have a fanciful capitalism to counter the equally fanciful socialist ideal?

Ever read Atlas Shrugged? Part of the reason it's enduringly popular is that it illustrates such an ideal.

Some pimply lefty punk rages at the keyboard using "osama" as a handle, now that's original.

He's just a pimply punk, eh? Thank goodness, he had me shit-scared for a while. I really had to confront myself and my white male hetrosexist capitalist assumptions there. Wow, what a challenging, alternative thing for him to do!

Angela,

"faculties are not trying to teach critical thinking; they are trying to define Critical Thought."

Excellent bon mot! Mind if I borrow it?

In which province do you reside?

No, I said register for, not be, drafted. I also pointed out that it was required from 18 on. I wasn't aware it was for all residents, regardless of citizenship. I pointed it out in regards to being stopped for speeding and then arrested for not having registered, for which I had to spend a night in jail, as it was to late in the day. I did not allude to a draft. Ronald Reagan made it an offence not to registar in 1978 or 79, I can't remember which. Until that time, it was voluntary.

"I'd suggest a not-so-gentle push towards a little moral purity of their own - by removing the stench of "capitalism/consumerism" from their university education. Allow the enlightened to demonstrate the courage of their left-wing convictions. Present them with an invoice for the total cost of their education to date, adjust tuition to cover 100% of the costs, and cut off of any tax-funded student loans."

What a strange argument. Leftists, who argue for state-subsidized education, can "demonstrate the courage of their convictions" by paying for 100% of their own education.

The only people who want students to pay 100% of the cost of their education are those on the extreme right. If you were arguing that they should put their money where their mouth is I would understand your argument.

Subsidized education is not capitalism.

Sorry Osama, Kate couldn't join the US Armed Forces even if she wanted to, unless she's an American citizen or landed immigrant; if my memory serves me correctly about the post 9/11 correspondence I received from a Lt Col Kuhn of the US Marines.

Before you ask, they held me overnight because I also have Canadian Citizenship, and were worried I'd run back to Canada. At the time there was a fair bit of discussion regarding the registration.

I know too much socialism can be bad and I know not enough of it can be bad, but I wasn't argueing either way. I was simply saying that removing public funding for the university is a lessening of socialism. So I just don't see how this would make them realize that socialism is bad and capitalism is good. Obviously any student that sees their tuition double or whatever will want to go back to the more socialist method of subsidization through tax revenue. Notice I'm not saying pure socialism, I understand that lots of tax of revenue does come from the free market.

You are a fuzzy thinker KMM ..

When you say lots of tax comes from the free market ... Try ALL TAX comes from the free market.

Students and others find out that Capitalism is good, when they go out and make something of themselves and reap the rewards. The only rewards in Socialism is the receiving of other peoples money because you present yourself as one of many types of loser.

By cutting off free money to students, they will only be more aliented from the main ...

This is the same logic that Neville Chamberlain used re the Nazi's and many Westerners now use regarding the terrorists. Appease then gets more of them. Kill them gets fewer of them.

Half of the students being subsidized for their watered down useless BAs would do much better learning a trade so they can work to produce wealth rather than piss away their lives in a useless government job or in a class room.

You need to think things through to a more logical conclusion and also to learn a bit more about human nature.

YOu are probably an insecure person and that is why Socialism appeals to you. Or you may just be uninformed. You tell me.

One gentleman has reportedly suggested that the "cradle to grave" support is most responsible for the poor lifestyles that natives endure. He is a former judge, and fluent in six or seven languages, including Japanese, Mandarin & Russian.

He has also stated that natives have been well compensated for the undeveloped land they held at the time. Racist bastard!...

He also happens to be one of the founders of the AFN, and a former Chief on his reserve. Apparently his views don't sit well with some in the native community as he has been banned off some reserves.

My apologies, wrong thread.

Hi Steve,

"No one tells them about the dark side and dark history of Capitalism until they get to University. So they are a little angry that they've been lied to by media and parents. Not so much for what they've been told but for what they haven't been told."

Have you been to a high school history or sociology class in the past 15 years?

Believe me, they've been told about the "evils" of capitalism long before they get to university.

But I agree with your conclusion: they are just kids, and they will learn better very soon.
...............................

As to the whole "critical thought" issue:

Once at university, people are told to be "critical". Unfortunately, "critical thought" is defined as socialist/anti-globalist/radical femminist thought, and anyone who questions these orthodoxies is told that they aren't "thinking critically".

Angela described this process very well above.

"Critical thinking" is a process. It involves freely and rigorously questioning ideas and assertions. It is absolutley necessary in both a university and a free society.

"Critical thought", as defined in many universities, is nothing more than a label for all left-wing thought.

Ironically, "critical thinking" is very effective at breaking down "critical thought".

Re: "Ronald Reagan made it an offence not to registar in 1978 or 79, I can't remember which. Until that time it was voluntary."

As far as I can recall draft registration was not made voluntary when the draft was abolished in the 70's.

And Pres. Reagan was elected in 1980 and took office in Jan 1981.

And all that is required to register for the draft (besides the will to do so) is a stop at a post office.

Who else has noticed John Gormley's flipflop on cartoon freedom of expression? It's ok for the Western Standard to publish offensive cartoons depicting a religious figure from Islam, but it's very wrong to publish an offensive cartoon featuring Jesus, apparently.

What a strange argument. Leftists, who argue for state-subsidized education, can "demonstrate the courage of their convictions" by paying for 100% of their own education.

Another candidate for Minister of Complex Files.

Yes Bozo, but you have to do it. Thank-you for correcting the date. Your breaking the law if you don't register on you 18th year. Also, non-citizens are not required to register as they can't be drafted, and typically you can't serve in the US military unless your a citizen. There are exception of course, but as a general rule, unless they have a reason for wanting you, you can't be a foriegn national.

Anyway, the point I was making was that Canada is fortunate not to have such legislation in place, nor has it had it since the second world war. That is the difference in attitudes on the Left/Right discussion.

For Osama to say that Kate should enlist is, besides not being necessary, not necessarily avoidable in the States. While there is no legislation calling for a draft, the registry is used in the event of the need for a draft.

People are drafted under certain critria, starting at 18 years of age, when that age catagory is exhausted, the next age group is called and so forth. If they actually got to 35 year olds, you can safely say they are probably giving everyone tall enough a gun, regardless of age, as it supposes that they have exhausted the remains of the 35's and under.

Canada has no such registration requirement, and in a draft senario, would have to accumulate the data prior to the action being put in place.

The purpose of the US registry is to be able to start calling up right now. At the drop of a hat.

Osama should consider himself lucky he lives in a country that would have to go through a great deal of trouble to institute a draft and then organize it.

In the states, if congress says go, the notices go out in a matter of days.

All this talk about "what is socialism?" is interesting but, the internet makes it possible to go right to the source.

Here is a link to the world socialist website.

http://www.wsws.org/index.shtml

http://www.therealcuba.com/Page8.htm

Here Bozo, in case your interested in Selective Service:

http://www.sss.gov/

The UofS cartoons are like the Mohammed ones - gratuitous insults, unfortunte and best ignored. The Dane didn't have to label them Mohammed, and the Sask didn't have to include a halo.

But some questions for Kate: Why are you reaching for the "hate" cudgel? What is "hate?" Have we reached the happy state of political correctness where you cannot express disapproval, disgust, ridicule or anything short of outright approval without facing accusations of fomenting "hate." Have you considered the possibility that you and a lot of your fans are fomenting "hate" against Liberals and - dare I even speak the name - Socialists?

After reading some of the comments in this thread, I now know that the official Socialist/Liberal university degree is a liberal arts degree, and that the Conservative degree of record is a business degree. Divides the country up nicely.

I know non-citizens could most definitely be drafted.

Length of Residency and age, not citizenship, determined the requirement for registration.

Non citizens could not be sent to the front lines.

Good thing you are not Swiss William (2 years mandatory military service).

I wasn't aware that non-citizens could be drafted but its on the site as true. I think the age thing has changed to. Well, it was my fault anyway, they did send me several letters which I ignored.

There you go, you learn something new every day.

For those of you who enjoy peeling Jason Cherniaks flesh back, one word at a time, he's gone and stepped in his own shit again.

"IN DEFENSE OF SCOTT BRISOM"

ol hoss,
Thanks for riding shotgun while I was visiting my daughter's government subsidised kindergarten.

Some people have trouble seeing the big picture.
The generous government subsidies for education are provided by the successful capitalist enterprises of Canada.

Any responsible government should carefully look at what these subsidies are being used for.
If they determine that there will be a need for people with a PhD's in gender studies or heavy duty mechanics, by all means, they should support those programs.

If they don't predict a societal need for large numbers of certain graduates, it would be irresponsible for the government to subsidise them from the public purse.

kmm posted

“If thats what you think thats fine, but I have never met a socialist who wants to destroy free enterprise. Most simply want to have increased taxes and funding for things such as public education.”

You just don’t get it do you?

Of course they don’t want to destroy it. That’s their free lunch for God’s sake!

But they do need to remember TANSTAAFL. (There ain’t no such thing as a free lunch)

As a taxpayer I expect my tax dollar to be spent responsibly. I do not consider funding students and profs who continually bite the hand that feeds them a good investment of my tax dollar.

If they don't predict a societal need for large numbers of certain graduates, it would be irresponsible for the government to subsidise them from the public purse.

Like they predicted how many medical personnel would be needed?

I think that something like 90% of ALL income taxes are paid by the top few percent of income earners in Canada.

As Randy Bachman was saying on the CBC (!!) one Saturday night, Canadas high income taxes drive away her most valuable (and talented) tax payers.

Mike Sutton, Author of "Too Many Christians Not Enough Lions" has made himself available for comments and/or criticisms of his cartoon. I remind letter writers to be civil and respectful towards Mr. Sutton, no matter how upset you may be.

mikesuttonstjohns@yahoo.ca

Kmm...Do you know what socialism is?
Socialism- Wiki
"Socialism is an ideology of a social and economic system in which the means of production are collectively owned and administered by all of society. Amongst other things, this is intended to produce a more evenly spread distribution of wealth. The idea of abolition of private property became a part of the idea in the early 19th century.In Marxist theory, it also refers to the society that would succeed or supplant capitalism, and would later develop further into communism, where the state would wither away."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism
Daniel

"The only rewards in Socialism is the receiving of other peoples money because you present yourself as one of many types of loser."

Well said Duke.

Steve

Marx claimed that Capitalism would self destruct because the owners of capital would end up owning virtually everything. This is perhaps not happening as quickly as Marx anticipated but it is happening. Below is a quote from the March 6th issue of the New York Times from a column by Paul Krugman.

" Between 1979 and 2003, according to a recent research paper published by the I.R.S., the share of overall income received by the bottom 80 percent of taxpayers fell from 50 percent to barely over 40 percent. The main winners from this upward redistribution of income were a tiny, wealthy elite: more than half the income share lost by the bottom 80 percent was gained by just one-fourth of 1 percent of the population, people with incomes of at least $750,000 in 2003."

So Capitalism is working BUT FOR WHOM?
So be careful what and whom you are defending when you defend Capitalism. Are you brainwashed?
Maybe. Maybe the kids know something the older folks don't. They are going to be treading water economically over their work life. Not much different from what they are doing already.

Another Marxist who doesn't understand wealth creation, thinking that wealth is static and is divided like a pie.

"Like they predicted how many medical personnel would be needed?

An excellent example of bad government. If they had done the proper demographic research they wouldn't have closed the nursing schools.

A responsible government should look at what and will be needed and fund accordingly.

Not just more stoopid marxism,

but Krugman,

PAUL KRUGMAN,

Mr. "I PREDICT KERRY WILL WIN"

What a joke!
That Moron!

The latest from the KRUGMAN TRUTH SQUAD

ol hoss
when your share of the pie decreases from 50% to 40% you are losing some of the pie relative to what you had 25 years ago. Regardless of the size of the pie. Further half of that missing 10% is going to the top quarter of one percent of the money earners. Maybe you don't miss your 10% of the pie but I do.

Doug
No this was Krugman quoting the IRS. So if you don't like the numbers tell it to the commie IRS.
You know, that part of the commie American Government that collects taxes. Hey, maybe America is going commie and i didn't notice!

"I think that something like 90% of ALL income taxes are paid by the top few percent of income earners in Canada." - no bozos allowed, at 5:16 PM

Now that is the kind of fact that would blow away a lot of smokescreens. Bozo, would you mind giving the source of that statistic? I would like to see what else is there.

Doug: I live on Prince Edward Island. (a contender for Canada's most socialist province).
Go ahead an borrow that term. It's not mine, my professors seriously said that we had to develop a Critical Consciousness. What we were supposed to be critical of was already blatantly defined for us.

Best site I've found that defends Christianity and capitalism (though that's simplifying a bit) is The Acton Institute.

"The Mission of the Acton Institute is to promote a free and virtuous society characterized by individual liberty and sustained by religious principles."

Great articles, podcasts and scholarship.

Saskboy, no flip flop whatsoever on Gormley's part. The fundamental difference between the Western Standard and the Sheaf is that no one is forced to subsidize the Western Standard. The Western Standard doesn't beg the government (aka the taxpayer) for more funding. The Western Standard faces the economic consequences of its publication decisions. The only commonality is that both publications are subject to Canadian and provincial laws (i.e., human rights legislation, libel & slander, etc.).

The problem with the socialist media in this country (CBC, Sheaf, etc) is that they can't stand up on their own merits and taxpayers are forced to fund them. That is what is wrong with this Sheaf issue.

steve d

I've been sittin on the sidelines here and I just love pie, all types of pie. Saskatoon, cherry, banana cream - Heck I better stop it's making me hungry!
I can't recall what share of pie my relatives had 25 years ago but I'll take you at your word about that.
Can't really follow all that about the half of that missing 10% going to the top quarter of one percent. I haven't had as much schooling as you.
But it's never surprised me much that the top earners get more pie than the likes of you and I..

I don't blame you for being miffed about losing 10% of your pie. From what I've seen you write I figure it could be a bunch more than that.

And that's not a pretty thing to ponder for any of us trying to make the world a finer place.

A few of the responses remind me of a theory I've mentioned here before - that one of the core underpinnings of leftist ideology is poor reading comprehension.

Steve d:
So, you would rather the alternative, where the government owns every last thing, wealth creation stagnates and we end up trying to escape on dingys like Castro's Cubans?

What socialists don't understand about private ownership is that you are always free to open up a competing business. With true socialism (rather than the mixed economy we have), everything is a monopoly. Think of the frustration you encounter with our healthcare system occurring in every single industry, including food.
Do you have any problem with the fact the province owns all healthcare?

Kate
One of the pre-requisites for being a true-believer conservative is pig headedness. No matter what they read in opposition they still don't get it.

Angela
Government shouldn't own every last thing. But because wealth is created BECAUSE the people allow it to happen doesn't mean those that have and control wealth now can begin to direct government. Corporate taxes used to be 50% of all tax income now they are about 16% with the regular taxpayer picking up the slack. Corporate welfare costs the state far more than actual welfare programs.
In the end, the power elite must remember where all power actually lies and act accordingly. There is a small elite which is vaccuuming up more and more of everything there is to own. The gap between the rich and poor is growing.
I know this situation will eventually correct itself one way or another. Greed and the obscene accummulation of wealth and power after all is not new.

An excellent example of bad government. If they had done the proper demographic research they wouldn't have closed the nursing schools.

It's forever the complaint of socialists that if only socialism worked better it would work.

Socialism is akin to spinning one's wheels in the mud.

Maybe we gotta spin faster to get something done. Something must be happening, I see a lot of, uh, mud flying and lots of movement and the noise, oh that wonderful noise of circular motion...

when your share of the pie decreases from 50% to 40% you are losing some of the pie relative to what you had 25 years ago. Regardless of the size of the pie.

Interesting, that socialist math.

50% of 100 = 50

40% of 200 = 80

Nevertheless, socialist math says 80 is less than 50.

The author of "Too Many Christians, Not Enough Lions" has responded to my E-Mail, and shows that I was right in my initial assesment all along:

http://uncommontruths.blogspot.com/2006/03/cartoon-madness-part-four-final.html

This guy is one hell of a piece of work. Wow. We have met the opposition, and he is ignorant.

***ALERT***

The Sheaf has released Thursday the 9th's edition, online now.

Go to http://thesheaf.com/ and near the bottom right is tte .pdf download link.

Page two has the apology and resignation of their editor.

steve d, another IRS evaluation:

http://www.nationalreview.com/nrof_bartlett/bartlett200510130903.asp

...."the latest Internal Revenue Service data on distribution of the tax burden:

The data show that the top 1 percent of taxpayers paid 34.3 percent of all federal income taxes in 2003, although they earned just 16.8 percent of the adjusted gross income.

The top 5 percent of taxpayers paid more than half of all federal income taxes, the top 10 percent paid two-thirds, and the top half of taxpayers paid 96.5 percent — meaning that the bottom half paid just 3.5 percent.

Another IRS report deconstructed the top 1 percent and found that the top 10 percent of the top 1 percent (the top 0.1 percent) increased their share of all federal income taxes from 7 percent in 1980 to 15.3 percent in 2003.

These 129,000 tax filers earned 7.6 percent of the income and paid an average tax rate of 23.6 percent. This came to $114.6 billion — four times more than all the taxes paid by the 64 million taxpayers in the bottom 50 percent, who paid an average tax rate of 2.9 percent."

~~~~

KMM: "I was simply saying that removing public funding for the university is a lessening of socialism."

And that would be a bad thing? Stanford, MIT, Harvard, Yale. All are 'privately funded' schools, recognized for excellence. Can everyone afford to go? Obviously not. Yet both the rich and the poor attend. The rich have to meet the schools minimum standards and the poor by deciding to excel and meet the scholarship standards. Life may not be complelely fair, but you can bet the 'poor' person who excels won't be poor for long.

MIT and Stanford in particular, attract massive amounts of funding from the private sector because the schools recognize the benefits of partnerships - unlike Canadian universities that for the most part put their socialist noses in the air and actively resist any participation by the private sector.

KMM: (Crown Corporations) "Admittedly they don't match the private sector for profits"

And why pray tell, is that? They often have huge competitve advantages but because they 'can't fail' they become overburdened with bureaucracy and hidebound in practice. They don't evolve because they don't have to. In fact, too often they are government monopolies and not 'competitive business'. And they still, more often than not, lose money.

KMM: "any student that sees their tuition double or whatever will want to go back to the more socialist method of subsidization"

Reminds me of the all too true old maxim: If you rob Peter to pay Paul, you'll always have the support of Paul. Fortunately, most of the Pauls eventually become Peters when they see how much is taken off their paycheques to pay the 'Pauls' who follow in their footsteps.

Steve D: "No one tells them about the dark side and dark history of Capitalism until they get to University."

Free enterprise is not perfect, but like democracy, it clearly beats everything else. So what about the 'dark side' of the alternative? 20 million lost under Stalin's communism. 40 million under Mao's communism. These tragedies include deaths due to executions, forced labor camps and genocides of certain social/ethnic groups - none of which happen under western free enterprise. Is the shameful history of 'socialism' widely disseminated in universities? Didn't think so.

Hey! I just realized that I'm one of those capitalist pigs!
Being a self employed small businessman I do evil things like:

1. Pay my 2 employees ~$30000 before I see a single penny myself.
2. Spend +$40000/yr on local suppliers & subtrades.
3. Pay massive commercial property/education tax on my property.
4. Collect +$10000/yr in PST & GST for the government.
5. Pay for about a dozen useless licenses & permits.

All this so I can be a little independent & scrape out a living less than what the typical unionized janitor makes ~$30000/yr.

The worst thing is I've even taken work from government employees & union shops!

I feel so guilty. :

BTW, how many of you marxists out there contribute over $90000 into your local economy?

Sorry for the little rant. Doing my bookwork at the moment. Just wanted to put a human face on this.

Hopefully now we all can put this to rest, and moreso, hopefully some learned a lesson of what desecration, err, discretion means.

Chris in Manitoba,

"BTW, how many of you marxists out there contribute over $90000 into your local economy?"

Boy are you ever misguided. Marxists don't "put in" they "take out". In your case, and mine, we are short about $30000 (or more) each ... it's always more than you put in ... unless you put in nothing or less.

I guess we will have to wait for the Libs to get again to apply for a grant for a fuck-up parade.

'local' economy is now a mere illusion, comrade. the last time i looked down the commercial brick road it was paved with old navy, pier 1, and that luvable ol' home-town business wrecker, walmart.

"'local' economy is now a mere illusion, comrade. the last time i looked down the commercial brick road it was paved with old navy, pier 1, and that luvable ol' home-town business wrecker, walmart."

Well ... no. Check up on the stats for small business in Canada. The majority of business taxes are paid by people living in your community ... they also employ the majority of people (except for the government in some areas).

acedementia, you may not believe this but I make an extreme effort to purchase & support local/small business when ever possible. As do most other small businesses. We are in the same boat & tend to support each other. In my experience it's been the government tenders & contracts that have gone to the big boys or down south.
BTW, I hate all those big box stores! Poor service & quality. Does that make me a bad right winger?

This whole debate reminds me of this saying:

"A socialist is somone who feels he owes a great debt to his fellow man...and wants to pay it off with your money"

ol hoss,

I'm for:
1. small government
2. any money that is taxed from the public should be used wisely for the public good.

Apparently poor reading comprehension and Pavlovian responses to selected sentences rather than comprehending the entire argument is not totally exclusive to the left.

Canadians can serve in the US military, at least my niece can. Only restriction is the amount of security clearance allowed.

The comments by Paul about 50 back show him for what he is, a whiny sniveling leftie who is so inclusive of all that he tries pathetically to dis religion as a fairy tale. It is as if they are threatened by the very idea of religion.

"that luvable ol' home-town business wrecker, walmart."

Posted by academentia at March 9, 2006 12:50 AM

Man, guys such as you just don't get how markets work. I've been a small (thats small 's')business owner all my life and I don't have any problem with Walmart or any other competitor.

Walmart doesn't 'cause' other business to fail. (Most)People will always choose to shop where it's in their own self-interest. Nobody ever said they HAD to shop at a Walmart. And nobody owes another business owner large or small, an obligation to help keep them in business.

You know who's shopping at Walmart, don't you. You. Me. Young families. Teachers. Lawyers. Nurses. Everybody. Even the socialists.

Don't try and put another segment of society in the victim role.

Government shouldn't own every last thing.

Governments shouldn't own anything. There is no industry that they succeed as well as the private sector in terms of profits and shareholder value - an important element in all of our retirements and economic well-being.

So Capitalism is working BUT FOR WHOM?

Look around at what countries have the highest per capita incomes. Are you that lame or fact challenged? Capitalism works for anyone willing and able to participate.

I'm beginning to think that behind you and your prior incarnation "steve from bc"(?) is an anti-social adolescent geting your kicks from being the skunk at a garden party.

The most persuasive fact laden arguments you walk on past or respond ignoring direct challenges to your childish dribble. You parrot the stupidest trash without a factual basis that some lame professor constructed for you.

It's getting old, steve "d" or "from bc"(?)

Return to Fark, DailyKos or Indymedia where you can have a leadership position. Critical thinking isn't for you.

A few of the responses remind me of a theory I've mentioned here before - that one of the core underpinnings of leftist ideology is poor reading comprehension.

Agree, Kate, poor reading comprehension is a requirement of leftist ideology. If the ridiculous leftist sheeple ever read history, economics or decent literature they would soon be off the plantation.

Ever notice that your basic leftist's underpinnings are feelings(I feel it most be true.) rather than the empirical/logical quest for truth.

1. Where I stand: The cartoon is offensive to me because it's poorly drawn and not very funny. As far as offending the religious sensibilities of people, I can certainly see why Christians or Jews would be offended by the cartoon, but since when is offending Christians or Jews a crime? This afternoon on Rawlco there were actually call-in idiots who were characterizing the cartoon as "hate speech". This just goes to show how much "hate speech" laws suck: they have become an all-purpose legal cudgel with which to beat those who exercise their free speech (with or without exercising their common sense). I think that if we're serious about free speech as a foundation of democracy, we should not allow the State to determine what is acceptable. The remedy for speech you don't like is to speak up yourself and denounce it, but not to throw people in jail for saying something disagreeable (and no, this doesn't imply that speech should never be regulated, but the point is we already have laws against slander and incitement, and we don't need a separate category for a concept as ill-defined as "spreading hate"). Anyway, calling this particular cartoon "hate speech" is ridiculous even under the current definition of the term.
2. The hypocrisy the right-wing media in this town has shown over the cartoon is absolutely radiant. We have Gormley on his show salaciously describing in ever-more-graphic detail the content of the cartoon leaving absolutely NOTHING to the imagination while going on and on about how disgraceful the whole thing is, et cetera. Of course I'd be willing to bet that Small Dead Animals has certainly gotten its share of hits after printing the cartoon, eh, Kate? I guess these images are only deemed ultra-offensive when they are purveyed by the "left-wing". Conservatives seem to feel they can traffic in offensive speech all they want if it's in service to their demagoguery. It just goes to show the latent pornographic cravings simmering within the typical social conservative.
3. It's clear the Sheaf was wrong to ban the Danish cartoons on the grounds of respect for religious sensibilities, and then turn around and print the Jesus cartoon. On the other hand, there were a lot of conservatives who pooh-poohed the Muslim outrage over the Danish cartoons, citing their veneration of the concept of "free speech" (e.g. the Western Standard). I have also seen McNally Robinson excoriated on this blog for not selling the WS issue with the Danish cartoons. Will these champions of "free speech" now stick up for the students who put out the Sheaf? Are those of you who are howling for heads to roll at the Sheaf not "unwilling to make a modest effort at home", in the effort to "secure(e) secularism and liberty". The shoe now appears to be on the other foot, doesn't it?

Kmm...Do you know what socialism is?
Socialism- Wiki
"Socialism is an ideology of a social and economic system in which the means of production are collectively owned and administered by all of society. Amongst other things, this is intended to produce a more evenly spread distribution of wealth. The idea of abolition of private property became a part of the idea in the early 19th century.In Marxist theory, it also refers to the society that would succeed or supplant capitalism, and would later develop further into communism, where the state would wither away."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism
Daniel

Posted by Daniel at March 8, 2006 06:21 PM

Of course I know what socialism is. What's your point?

"KMM: (Crown Corporations) "Admittedly they don't match the private sector for profits"

And why pray tell, is that? They often have huge competitve advantages but because they 'can't fail' they become overburdened with bureaucracy and hidebound in practice. They don't evolve because they don't have to. In fact, too often they are government monopolies and not 'competitive business'. And they still, more often than not, lose money."

hmm, not sure of the point of this one either. I never did argue for or against socialism in any of my posts as far as I remember. I was simply making those statements in order to support my claim that cutting funding in order to teach students the perils of socialism is actually teaching them the perils of capitalism.

Meanwhile, Scottie was at the trough piggling away when Mr. Blackberry intervenined. Who is this Mr. Blackberry? Waht are Blackberry addicts? Why would Brison be tracking down a lady? Afraid of blackberry blackmail? Who is Mr. X? The thot plickens. Who is hunting whom? Will Mr. X help Scottie? Who is whom? Will scottie need scotties?

And now, a word from our sponsorship scandal...$$$$$$ +

Mr. Brison was trying to track down a woman who had taken a picture of him and his partner at an event in Ottawa at the National Arts Centre several weeks before. The woman, as it turned out, was a friend of Mr. Nowlan, so Mr. Brison e-mailed his old acquaintance to get her number, beginning the now infamous electronic exchan