They won't show the photos and discuss it because they are cowards! The funny thing is, the MSM would be the first to be destroyed in a Sharia law based society

Hmmmmm contrary to what my Hollywood representatives are telling me, these Islamic prison conditions seem far more severe than Gitmo...was I misled by the saintly actors guild?

Maybe the MSM doesn't show them because we all know these guys are scum. We don't need the pictures to prove it. We expect nothing less of insurgents.

We do, however, expect a lot more of our soldiers and military. So there's a logic in showing those pictures.

There's also illogic in not showing the pictures, Peter.

If the goal is to completely inform the listener/reader about the brutality and deplorable acts of the "insurgents", then it is illogical not to counter the Gitmo or Abu Ghraib "atrocities" with pictures similar to those shown at mypetjawa.

Yes, of course one's perspective changes a little when you are about to have your head lopped off "John the Baptist" style and handed to you on a platter.

So the Middle East hasn't changed in some 2 millenia; still the same old butchery. My how humanity has advanced. This is what happens when religion gets hijacked for political purposes; all in the name of Allah.

On the other hand we have some leading secularists/atheists like Stalin, Hitler, Saddam, Pol Pot, etc. (add a few more names as required) who have some considerable blood on their hands; all leading their nations "responsibly" over the precipice. All "great leaders" whose hallmarks were shootings, murder, torture and the mindless dispatch of lives who had the temerity to call the veracity of government into question or simply be in the way.

All these "dream merchants" of course "leading the way" to the twisted version of the Promised Land. Welcome to Hades, ladies and gentlemen the temperature should be rising shortly.

All good arguments BTW on why we need a little less government untrammeled by common sense.

Well, Peter, then "torture" is an absolutist matter to you ( even though most other matters are highly relative)....in the case of these foamy mouthed suicide androids, the simple appearence of a Mohamed cartoon is cruel inhumane treatemt ;-)

This is so sickening. The way I see it very simple is they want the Jews and Christians dead removed from earth. In their books all of us "white" people fall into these two categories.
Media is so scared of offending the terrorists. It is all fine and dandy to behead, torture innocent civilian's. GOD help us if the military detain and question people with links to terrorism. Now there has been a reward put out to who ever kills the cartoonist responsible for "those Mohamed cartoons". These are very scary sick people. OUR media had better wake up and start covering the really story.

This about covers it:
http://www.coxandforkum.com/archives/000780.html

Mark Peters: Dead On!!!!We are in big trouble.

We do, however, expect a lot more of our soldiers and military. So there's a logic in showing those pictures.

Maybe they should show the whole video to provide context. Think that would be more honest?

It's a wonder the thugs weren't shot instead of merely being beaten.

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/story.jsp?story=679140

Excerpts;

The video was filmed at a time when troops were involved in running battles with hundreds of rioters, armed with home-made grenades, stones and sticks. It shows a grenade landing inside the compound while the black fumes of a fire just outside the perimeter blow through.

These people would not have been throwing hand grenades at any other army. They would not do that to the Jordanians or the Egyptians or the Israelis because they would shoot them," he added.

Do a search for pallywood and begin to wonder how much footage we see is real

Perhaps the MSM practises bootleg racism. The perps of these horrific acts are portrayed as victims of McBushchimpyhitlerhalliburton and therefore to be excused. Or, in a moral relativistic sense, "not worse but different" than the standards of Western behavior so the MSM wouldn't want to "demonize" them. The MSM's message is: "We can't expect them to share our standards of behavior". The implicit (racially deterministic) message being, that the Islamic nutters are incapable of such behavior.

Another reason may be MSM moral cowardice in that whether or not they believe in "peace in our time", they will pretend that the obvious global clash of Islam and the more secular world either doesn't exist or can be delayed so long as they don't have to experience the discomfort of taking a non-left lib position in their lifetime.

Terrorists kidnap people for publicity. Don't give it to them.

The TERRORISTS are not protected by the Geneva Conventions because:

a) they are not members of a military force operating under the authority of the government of a generally recognized country.
b) they do not wear uniforms that are legitimately issued, if at all.
c) they hide among the civilian population.
d) they target civilians as well as military targets.

They are not "prisoners of war". They are "unlawful combatants".

here's a story you will never hear on CBC

Brought Up To Hate
By Nonie Darwish
Telegraph.co.uk | February 17, 2006

The controversy regarding the Danish cartoons of the Prophet Mohammed completely misses the point. Of course, the cartoons are offensive to Muslims, but newspaper cartoons do not warrant the burning of buildings and the killing of innocent people. The cartoons did not cause the disease of hate that we are seeing in the Muslim world on our television screens at night - they are only a symptom of a far greater disease.

I was born and raised as a Muslim in Cairo, Egypt and in the Gaza Strip. In the 1950s, my father was sent by Egypt's President, Gamal Abdel Nasser, to head the Egyptian military intelligence in Gaza and the Sinai where he founded the Palestinian Fedayeen, or "armed resistance". They made cross-border attacks into Israel, killing 400 Israelis and wounding more than 900 others.

My father was killed as a result of the Fedayeen operations when I was eight years old. He was hailed by Nasser as a national hero and was considered a shaheed, or martyr. In his speech announcing the nationalisation of the Suez Canal, Nasser vowed that all of Egypt would take revenge for my father's death. My siblings and I were asked by Nasser: "Which one of you will avenge your father's death by killing Jews?" We looked at each other speechless, unable to answer.

In school in Gaza, I learned hate, vengeance and retaliation. Peace was never an option, as it was considered a sign of defeat and weakness. At school we sang songs with verses calling Jews "dogs" (in Arab culture, dogs are considered unclean).

Criticism and questioning were forbidden. When I did either of these, I was told: "Muslims cannot love the enemies of God, and those who do will get no mercy in hell." As a young woman, I visited a Christian friend in Cairo during Friday prayers, and we both heard the verbal attacks on Christians and Jews from the loudspeakers outside the mosque. They said: "May God destroy the infidels and the Jews, the enemies of God. We are not to befriend them or make treaties with them." We heard worshippers respond "Amen".

My friend looked scared; I was ashamed. That was when I first realised that something was very wrong in the way my religion was taught and practised. Sadly, the way I was raised was not unique. Hundreds of millions of other Muslims also have been raised with the same hatred of the West and Israel as a way to distract from the failings of their leaders. Things have not changed since I was a little girl in the 1950s.

Palestinian television extols terrorists, and textbooks still deny the existence of Israel. More than 300 Palestinians schools are named after shaheeds, including my father. Roads in both Egypt and Gaza still bear his name - as they do of other "martyrs". What sort of message does that send about the role of terrorists? That they are heroes. Leaders who signed peace treaties, such as President Anwar Sadat, have been assassinated. Today, the Islamo-fascist president of Iran uses nuclear dreams, Holocaust denials and threats to "wipe Israel off the map" as a way to maintain control of his divided country.

Indeed, with Denmark set to assume the rotating presidency of the UN Security Council, the flames of the cartoon controversy have been fanned by Iran and Syria. This is critical since the International Atomic Energy Agency is expected to refer Iran to the Security Council and demand sanctions. At the same time, Syria is under scrutiny for its actions in Lebanon. Both Iran and Syria cynically want to embarrass the Danes to achieve their dangerous goals.

But the rallies and riots come from a public ripe with rage. From my childhood in Gaza until today, blaming Israel and the West has been an industry in the Muslim world. Whenever peace seemed attainable, Palestinian leaders found groups who would do everything to sabotage it. They allowed their people to be used as the front line of Arab jihad. Dictators in countries surrounding the Palestinians were only too happy to exploit the Palestinians as a diversion from problems in their own backyards. The only voice outside of government control in these areas has been the mosques, and these places of worship have been filled with talk of jihad.

Is it any surprise that after decades of indoctrination in a culture of hate, that people actually do hate? Arab society has created a system of relying on fear of a common enemy. It's a system that has brought them much-needed unity, cohesion and compliance in a region ravaged by tribal feuds, instability, violence, and selfish corruption. So Arab leaders blame Jews and Christians rather than provide good schools, roads, hospitals, housing, jobs, or hope to their people.

For 30 years I lived inside this war zone of oppressive dictatorships and police states. Citizens competed to appease and glorify their dictators, but they looked the other way when Muslims tortured and terrorised other Muslims. I witnessed honour killings of girls, oppression of women, female genital mutilation, polygamy and its devastating effect on family relations. All of this is destroying the Muslim faith from within.

It's time for Arabs and Muslims to stand up for their families. We must stop allowing our leaders to use the West and Israel as an excuse to distract from their own failed leadership and their citizens' lack of freedoms. It's time to stop allowing Arab leaders to complain about cartoons while turning a blind eye to people who defame Islam by holding Korans in one hand while murdering innocent people with the other.

Muslims need jobs - not jihad. Apologies about cartoons will not solve the problems. What is needed is hope and not hate. Unless we recognise that the culture of hate is the true root of the riots surrounding this cartoon controversy, this violent overreaction will only be the start of a clash of civilis-ations that the world cannot bear.

Great stuff Fred.

Any state that relies on state propoganda and restricting information is in for a rude shock over the next 10-15 years.

VICTOR DAVIS HANSON - WHY THE WEST HAS WON

This book attempts to explain why Westerners have been so adept at using their civilization to kill others - at warring so brutally, so often without being killed. Past, present, and future, the story of military dynamism in the world is ultimately an investigation into the prowess of Western arms. The general public itself is mostly unaware of their culture's own singular and continuous lethality in arms. Yet for the past 2,500 years - even in the Dark Ages, well before the 'Military Revolution', and not simply as result of the Renaissance, the European discovery of the Americas, or the Industrial Revolution - there has been a peculiar practice of Western warfare, a common foundation and continual way of fighting, that has made Europeans the most deadly soldiers in the history of civilization.

CONTENTS

01 The Western Way of War
02 Freedom - Salamis 480 B.C.
03 Decisive Battle - Gaugamela 331 B.C.
04 Citizen Soldiers - Cannae 216 B.C.
05 Landed Infantry - Poitiers 732
06 Technology - Tenochtitlan 1520
07 The Market - Lepanto 1571
08 Discipline - Rorke's Drift 1879
09 Individualism - Midway 1942
10 Dissent - Tet 1968
EP Epilogue - Past and Future
BB Beyond The Book

#1 THE WESTERN WAY OF WAR

Throughout this book I use the term 'Western' to refer to the culture of classical antiquity that arose in Greece and Rome; survived the collapse of the Roman Empire; spread to western and northern Europe; then durin gthe great periods of exploration and colonization of the 15th through 19th centuries expanded to the Americas, Australia, and areas of Asia and Africa; and now exercises global political, economic, cultural and military power far greater than the size of its territory or population might otherwise suggest. +

http://homepage.eircom.net/~odyssey/Quotes/History/Hanson.html

That book is a must read. It should be in the curriculum of grade 11 or 12.

All good points. I just don't think it's news that terrorists mistreat their captives. We all know it. But it is news when democracies do. And so it should be.

Sadly, the mush-brains at home don't know that the Islamists do it! They never figured out the horrors of the VietCong or NVA torures and murders, either! Why? Because the MSM didn't bother reporting it. And why didn't they? Because they thought it was understood that the Vietnamese would commit atrocities, and that wasn't news. My Lai was news, and so it was reported. Thus a skewed and false picture of what happened.

The same may be happening in the War On Terror, but I doubt it. I think it's deliberate. And suicidal!

Harper considering Afghanistan for first prime ministerial trip
Yahoo News ^ | Friday, Feb 17, 2006. | Yahoo Staff

Posted on 02/17/2006 3:52:06 PM PST by fanfan

OTTAWA (CP) -

Stephen Harper is considering one of the most chaotic corners of Afghanistan for his first foreign trip as prime minister.

The Taliban stronghold of Kandahar is being weighed against a more genteel option - visits with the presidents of the U.S. and Mexico - for Harper's first trip abroad in office. Harper began considering Kandahar late last month after his federal election win, at the urging of senior military brass.

He was told that such a visit would send a strong message about his commitment to the Armed Forces and about Canada's desire to make a difference in the world.

Canada's military presence in Kandahar is being increased to 2,200 this month in an effort to improve security in the longstanding Taliban bastion.

A suicide bomber killed a Canadian diplomat there and seriously injured three Edmonton-based soldiers when he attacked their convoy last month.>>
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1580826/posts +

Excerpt from Comments:
To: mkjessup
Finally, Canada has a Prime Minister with a SPINE!!!

And a pair!
11 posted on 02/17/2006 4:49:34 PM PST by fanfan (I'd still rather hunt with Cheney, than drive with Kennedy.)

Conditions at Abu Ghraib have improved immeasurably since the 2003 invasion of Iraq. Previously, under the tender mercies of the gentle Saddam Hussein, people were fed feet first into woodchippers while they were still alive. While liberals have no problem with this as long as Saddam is appropriately anti-Bush, there's still the apparently small matter of the victims themselves - they probably didn't care how anti-Bush Saddam was, or even if he was pro-Bush - they just didn't want to be fed into woodchippers.

Abuses that have occured since the new management took over - none so serious as feeding humans into woodchippers - have led to charges, convictions and prison. If there are more, then they will no doubt be investigated and the abusers will pay for those crimes - unlike the current abusers running Iranian prisons, or Saudi prisons, or Syrian prisons, or Libyan prisons.....

benning:
your paragraph: "The same may be happening in the War On Terror, but I doubt it. I think it's deliberate. And suicidal!"

Absolutely agree!

As the great historian Arnold Toynbee said:
“Civilizations die from suicide, not by murder.”

And we now have THREE former US executive branch leaders -- 2 former presidents and 1 vice-president preparing the cool-aid.

Then, way down in the responses, you find this information from a commenter, Maurice. Unfortunately, his comment is without email or homepage, but I’m willing to believe him when he says he did the research:

LIFE IN IRAQ:

During the past few weeks, I have done some careful research into what is happening in Iraq.

I have discovered that 47 countries have re-established their embassies there. The current Iraq government employs 1.2 million Iraqis. More than 3,100 schools have been renovated and 364 are being rehabilitated, with 263 under construction. Twenty universities and 46 institutes are operating. Some 4.3 million Iraqi children were enrolled in primary schools by the end of 2005.

The Iraqi police force has more than 55,000 fully trained and equipped officers and there are five police academies producing 3,500 new officers every eight weeks.

There are at least 1,190,000 mobile-phone subscribers. There is a fully independent media network of 75 radio stations, 180 newspapers and 10 television stations.

Much normal life is going on, although we rarely hear about it.

Maurice is right, we don’t hear about it. Why do you suppose that is? +
http://gatesofvienna.blogspot.com/

Phew! We're not as bad as Saddam. Time to rest easy.

You rest easy Peter. Most of the rest of us don't mind finding out the whole truth. :)

I wonder what the world and our country would look like today if the current liberal malaise afflicting the MSM had been prevalent at the outbreak of WWII. Nazi attrocities would have been ignored, the invasion of France met with demands to "give peace a chance", the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbour rationalized as just deserts for American foreign policy, and any suggestion of liberating Europe met with demands for a pre-determined exit strategy. The world would have been divided between some combination of Fascist or Communist dictatorship and Japanese Imperial warlords.
Since it has no concept of right or wrong, no behavioural expectations, and no social vision beyond short term opportunistic hedonism, the current liberal media is so vacuous that it not only lacks the capacity for self-defence, it lacks even the ability to know that the foundational paradigm for its very existence is under attack.
Since self defence in the face of barbarians requires a backbone, some courage and the real possibility that one might get hurt, the only way for the cowards to cope with the unpleasantness of the terrorists is to ignore them and to cover that cowardice by complaining about the behaviour of the ones defending civilization.
Thank God the previous generation had the willpower to defend our way of life. I shudder to think what we'll leave to our grandchildren.

DrD "I wonder what the world and our country would look like today if the current liberal malaise afflicting the MSM had been prevalent at the outbreak of WWII"

Time for a short history lesson.

It was the big daddy of american liberalism, FDR, that brought the US into WW2. The republicans at the time were strongly isolationist. They even tried to stop FDR from supporting the UK during the battle of Britain.

If it wasn't for Pearl Harbour FDR probably wouldn't have never been able to bring the United States into WW2. And if hadn't been for the ok-with-nazis isolationist republicans FDR may have been able to enter WW2 years sooner. That may have prevented the soviets from swallowing up Eastern Europe and saved millions of jews from the gas chamber.

And it was a republican senator, Taft, who criticized the Nuremberg trials. Apparently all those republicans didn't have much of a problem with this stance as he went on to become the republican's presidential candidate. Fortunately Truman beat him.

And it took another Liberal, Bill Clinton, to take action against Serbia against the prevailing tide of public opinion. It was an unpopular decision but it was the right thing to do. Bush wouldn't have done it. At the time he was against playing "global policeman". It wasn't until Iraq turned up empty in terms of WMDs and his approval ratings among moderates dropped that he start his promoting democracy mantra.

I like Bush's democracy promotion thingy. I'd like to see a coalition of nations install a democracy in Burma for instance (the UN can't do it as Russia and China will simply veto). Unfortunately its all just empty rhetoric designed to provide cover while Bush slowly bails out of Iraq.

The right in the United States tends to start wars out of self interest and paranoia. They don't do unpopular noble causes like WW2, Somalia or Yugoslavia. All rhetoric to the contrary is largely spin for the benefit of the party faithful.

Anyone find it interesting that the CBC and other news agencies have aired the "new" prisoner abuse photos coming out of Australian media?

For the past few weeks the CBC has been telling us that it would be too inflamatory and incensitive to air the cartoons that have sparked violent protest across much of europe and the ME. However, that consideration doesn't seem to matter, since they didn't mind airing the much more inflamatory prisoner abuse photos.

Also, the timing of the release of these pictures couldn't be worse. Talk about throwing gas on the fire. If this Autralian paper had been sitting on the pictures for a while, why release them at the hieght of hysteria?

Ryan "Also, the timing of the release of these pictures couldn't be worse. Talk about throwing gas on the fire."

So by that I take it you were against the cartoons?

I haven't found any mention of protests against the release of the photos. All the outrage seems to be coming from the right.

Jose: Your history lesson: fine, but dese dems are dose dems. DrD was referring to the outright seditious dems of today including Clinton, Carter and Gore who from foreign soil are bashing their own country -- not the done thing. I read somewhere that Gore picked up 1/4 million for his anti-yank speech in Saudi Arabia in which among other things he complained about the visa restrictions for Saudis, who, if you recall provided most of the 9/11 murderers.

Context, my good man, context!

er, that should have been: dese dems AREN'T dose dems, of course ...

me no dhimmi-

Clinton was no FDR or JFK, the USA doesn't elect leaders like that anymore. But I suspect Clinton if he had been president in 1938 he would have wanted to bring the USA into the war.

Gore on the other hand is a twit I agree. I'd still prefer him to Bush but that's not saying much.

Jose:

I was against the cartoons being published until they became the focal point of an international uprising. Once that happened I think it became important for the media to show the public what all the fuss was about, so to speak. If Christians or Jews where rioting in the streets because of the content of a cartoon i would expect the same.

The reason I remain against the publication of these "new" Abu Ghraib photos, is that they aren't new at all. These are old photos and do not contribute anything new to the original story of prisoner abuse. We knew at the time that there were more photos then had been released to the media. I've heard there were literally hundreds of photos, but since they all pretty much show the same thing there wasn't exactly any reason to show them all. The fact that these photos were released at the height of muslim hysteria over the Muhammed cartoons seems more than coincidental. If we are to believe that the MSM really does care about preventing further violence through self-censorship, than there is no arguement for airing these photos at this time. (since we've already established that freedom of speech is not an issue to them)

The fact that you haven't heard anything about these new photos whipping protesters further into frezy doesn't mean that it hasn't. Imagine coming home at the end of a long day of protesting. You turn on your TV and there you have it. Another enraging reason to hate the West, the fact that its from 3 years ago doesn't matter. The hatred was already there, the pictures just crystalize it.

Ryan,

Its worth noting that at this stage that any image that is in the hands of more than one person will probably be published somewhere by someone. That's just the nature of the internet and the umpteen channel universe. Its going to get even better/worse once video podcasting takes off.

Jose, I'm willing to allow that the party affiliations of defenders of "western democracy" have morphed over time. My concern lies with the attitude of the media now as compared to then. The media in the west during WWII knew what was at stake and, while criticizing when appropriate, never-the-less threw its wholehearted support behind the war effort. Today's western media, broadly speaking, hasn't a clue where the boundaries of our societies lie and therefore are unable to recognize an imminent or actual breach of those boundaries.

DrD "Today's western media, broadly speaking, hasn't a clue where the boundaries of our societies lie and therefore are unable to recognize an imminent or actual breach of those boundaries."

That last point is up for debate. If Third Reich rose again we wouldn't be having this discussion. But we're not dealing with the Nazis we're dealing with terrorists which may be knew to the USA but which isn't to the rest of the world. Some of us feel that we should deal with Al Qeada the same way we dealt with the IRA.

That Al Qaeda should be countered is not in question. How they should be dealt with is and its a perfectly valid debate to be having.

"I'm willing to allow that the party affiliations of defenders of "western democracy" have morphed over time."

You're conceding to a point I didn't make.

Ryan: You're right in all respects I think. You make an excellent point about changing your mind about the cartoons when you realized that it was the premise of a international uprising! And that's what it was: a clear incitement, a probe, a testing of the waters to find how close to submission is the west. We are now going to see more and more "faux outrage", bet on it. This is a highly co-ordinated affair, nothing spontaneous about it at all, in my view.

As to MSM and the "new" Abu Graib pics published at the height of the islamofascist frenzy:

THE FOURTH ESTATE IS A FIFTH COLUMN (if you'll pardon the shouting).

me no dhimmi:

"And that's what it was: a clear incitement, a probe, a testing of the waters to find how close to submission is the west."

I'd say it was a test, but not so much a test of the West. Its more a test of their own side.
The fact that various powerful Mulim leaders have basically gone on a "world tour of fear & hatred" is something that all of Europe, and the rest of the world for that matter, should really take very seriously. We know that there was no regard for debate, or even facts. These leaders seem to want to keep their people constantly boiling, the past few weeks can in many ways be seen as a test: how long does it take to whip the muslim world into complete furur, and unite everyone in hatred of a single cause? Hmmm.....I'd say about 2 weeks.

If I lived in Paris or London I'd be getting a little worried.

Ryan: Good point. The new Bolshevism only not limited to one country. I have the feeling that most people are not aware of the grand tour of the Danish imam.

Another thing I came across: the lead Danish imam may have been vengeful over Denmark refusing to allow his wife in Lebanon to move to Denmark. Evidently they have a "connection" law which takes into account the amount of of shared time in a particular country, which in this case was 8 years in Lebanon, and therefore prohibited her from becoming a resident. Good thing I say: family re-union is the bane of our immigration system. One comes, the rest follow and if they don't receive cash welfare they receive free medical care.

Penny: Monica, I believe, called him the BIG CREEP. I didn't get it then, but watching him gallivant around the world with Bush Sr. and then stabbibg Bush Jr and his country in the back and pandering to the islamists, I get it BIG TIME. Mark Steyn called him a high-end lounge act. That works too! He does play a sex, er, sax after all.

Jose: "If Third Reich rose again we wouldn't be having this discussion." What's your point exactly? Are you saying that if a regime similar to Hitler's Germany arose, then we and the MSM would recognize it as a threat and be resolute in taking aggressive action to prevent its spread -- that we wouldn't appease it but rather stand up to it?