Beautiful!

Well did you get him? & if you did we have a little white rodent close by that said 6 more weeks. We got over 50cm of snow in 2days after that & he has gone into hiding.

Now that we know that the Softwood Lumber Deal was already settled back in November and the only reason Canadians are unaware of this is because Mr. Emerson convinced the Liberal party into keeping it quiet so the Liberals could use Bush against Harper in the election,

Harper had one of three options:

1) He could keep it quiet and announce a settlement in about 3 months and take full credit.

2) He could expose the Liberal hypocrisy and tell Canadians that the Liberals used Bush during the election knowing a deal had been reached.

3) Harper could score political points by grabbing a Liberal MP – Emerson – and state how much Canada needed such an MP in cabinet. Then in 3 months when Canadians learned of the Softwood Lumber Deal Harper could be seen as making a smart move by bringing Emerson into Cabinet while showing up the Liberals.

Problem is Harper would then have to go along with the Liberal Hypocrisy about Bush being unwilling to deal. Harper would have to agree to go on national TV and talk about how much Emerson is needed to solve this lumber problem while knowing full well the deal is already done.

In other words, Harper would have to embrace the Liberal Hypocrisy and use it as a means to score points for himself and against the Liberals. Of course the only real problem is that Harper would have to agree to go along with the Liberal Government practice of lying to Canadians – it appears that he is willing to do this.

Now that it is in the open - Harper is hiding.

Click link to hold Conservatives accountable

Kate, I've read with interest the many takes on Emerson's switch, yours, Angrys, Wells, and AC. I am and have been a Conservative supporter for over 30 years and I really think that in Stephen Harper and many of his caucus we have the best opportunity ever to advance democracy and principles in our institutions.
Well I'm really torn over this, I have after much reflection decided I'm really sad that this occurred, and that we are defending it. I believe that principle matters above all..the statement that "they did it" or "it's always been done" does not make it right.
Ask yourself this, under what circumstances would you accept becoming a member of the Liberal bloggers group..they had higher hit rates? I don't think so..you have your beliefs and principles and you stand behind them.
Anyhow, jsut my thoughts, I really enjoy your blog.

This Emerson story has the same legs as the story about the US shooting the car out from underneath our diplomat in Iraq.

Put yourself in that car... watching the guns swing around and start to track you... and you keep driving like you are on the QE parkway. I still shake my head at that attempt to manufacture a diplomatic problem for the new government.

Who's doing the hunting Kate? You or Harper?

I'm sacred to poke my head up in this thread but I have to make an appearance and say...

Whoa, Gary McHale. I couldn't follow that at all. Could you try again because you have me confused.

Dear Dale, and Others,

I wouldn't presume to answer for Kate, who will, should she chose, arc over the keyboard like a pianist doing Bach.

I would however like to say this to you and others concerned about Emerson and Fortier.

All you people, who are shitting over Senate reform and Democratic process, relax.

Stephan needs a majority, and this is definitely the part of the path he needs to follow. If you as a Conservative expect Harper to wave some sort of magic wand to fix the issues we have in Alberta and BC regarding representation, or in the nation for that matter, you need to take a cold shower and sniff the reality flower, cause it took 150 years to wind up with this seriously fucked up situation, and it’s not going to get solved in 2 years.

I’ll get back to the representation issue, lets talk about something more immediately important first. Namely the Pacific Portfolio...

This is about money.

Money we make, money we need, money we want to make, and tax’s that will come from somewhere, and that somewhere is you and I, or business. I pick business

When you pull a $20 dollar bill out of your pocket, do you consider it a Liberal $20, or a Conservative $20?

My point exactly.

The Pacific Portfolio stands above partisanship. Who gives a shit what side of the fence you sit on politically, because the Pacific Portfolio is about money folks. It’s about money I’m going to make, your going to make, your kids are going to make… etc.

The Pacific Portfolio is about addressing softwood lumber, US/Canada fishing rights, increased access to better harbor facilities, pipelines to transport oil and gas, Asian trade, opening the South Pacific, getting chummier with Australia and New Zealand.

In three words: It’s about Money!

It is in my mind (and most likely the minds of every major oil producer in Alberta) the single most important project undertaken in the last 50 years for the nation as a whole.

Its scale in importance rivals the creation of a coast to coast railway or the seaway... it's that big.

Economically, the Pacific Portfolio is going to save Quebec and Ontario's collective ass when their manufacturing sectors completely tank. It's going to provide access to Asian markets on a scale we can't even appreciate yet. This is important to Canada in ways I doubt most Canadians, except perhaps economists (Hmm… what’s Stephens background?) understand.

Remember this and remember it well, Rome was the greatest civilization that ever existed, and it lasted over 1000 years. The US is the greatest civilization of the 2nd millenium, and it’s going to be lucky if it can survive to be 500 years old.

We do 90% of our trade with the US, and when it tanks, so do we. The path to Asia is so important to us it defies explanation. We need to diversify our trade yesterday, and we are just getting around to it. Trade with China, India, the Pacific Rim in general must become our overriding focus for the next 25 years, or we are screwed.

So in a word, fuck James Moore, and any other Tory or Liberal or NDP MP for that matter, who might have a problem with our new Trade Minister.

Emerson knows what is going on, he's been involved from the start, and frankly, he's a damn smart guy, be he Liberal, Tory, or a Martian. He placement will insure the forward momentum of this project.

I will also add that these appointments, Emerson in particular, show the type of individual leading the country.

Stephan did what he did for himself no doubt, but also for the nation as a whole. He is pragmatic and sees the bigger picture. Martin never did anything that wasn't for Martin, and if it happened to do something for someone else... well lucky for them.

I'd rather be unpopular and do the right thing, than be popular and do the wrong thing.

The Cabinet that Harper just put together is a stroke of genius, and positions him early in the game to strike hard and fast for a majority in the next election. Since reform of electoral process requires the provinces and initiation of the amending formula for the Constitution... it automatically demands negotiation.

Only an idiot (you know, like Joe Clark) would try to begin to reform the electoral process with a minority.

Sit back, and watch the scariest chess player you'll ever know do what he does best, come back from the dead. Look, if he's screws it all up, we don't vote for him. It's not that hard to figure out.

We owe Stephen the chance to succeed. I don't want him to fail, but we gave him the rope, lets see whether he hangs himself, or lasso' a solution that will fundamentally, and profoundly, change this nation forever.

I think he's already started that process, but in the end I think you have to expect Stephen to be a little Machiavellian to achieve our dreams.

You placed all of your faith in Stephen and the Party to oust a criminal government, and the guy's been PM for a week, and already Cons are "worried", "frightened", "betrayed".

How about considering giving him a little more of your faith for a while. Give him a chance to show you that he's not going to screw you over. You been asked for a lot already as voters, but is another 6 months to a year such a big deal in a battle that hasn't even really begun yet?

Me, I'm saving myself for the real fight, the real revo... I mean evolution that this country has to go through.

Let me put it another way. Google the words "rove rope-a-dope"

All this hand ringing is of no use.
Lets just see what transpires in the coming months with what PMSH and his cabinet can acomplish.
6 months from now we may be happy or sad.

Gary, have you heard enough of this to make that conclusion? Have you heard from everyone involved? Have you heard all of the evidence? Or are you just making your own assumptions and telling yourself what a great judge, jury and executioner you are? If you were serving on a jury for, let's say extortion, and all you have heard is testimony from the CEO and some disgtruntled employees, would you then say, " That's enough, he's lying, he did it." or, do wait until you have heard enough to make a rational decision? If, of course, you are listening to the MSM then you might as well throw away the key.

Great comment, William.

Heh, there's going to be a lotta crow choked down.

Watch for the Conservatives to come back from their retreat a lot happier than when they went;)

If you haven't read Garth Turner's blog lately, you should.

And industry has come out to say that there was no deal "ready to sign" so the Liberals are just blowing smoke & the MSM are busy trying for a contact high.

William that was beautifully put.

All I can say is that anyone who continues to gripe about this has got a major pole lodged up his ass with little chance of it's removal.

We vented about Belinda and in the end it meant nothing other than what we learned about Belinda.

Just STFU and give it time to watch what Emerson can or can't do and Stephen Harper for that matter.

Get a life for crying out loud.

great post William.

sober second thought and all that stuff.

Its good to know there is a precentage of the population,... however small that thinks things through (or even allows them to develop) before passing knee-jerk judgement on what will happen and how it is a travesty in their eyes.

In 6 months we'll see what happens... Harper may be the savior or the goat, but atleast allow him to try before condeming him for a single act.

Its a bit early to be passing sentence or praising Harper over this deal. The dust hasn't even settled fully yet. I'm not sure if that's what Kate meant by her gopher jumping metaphor but it seems to fit.

If you want to hang Harper I'd wait for him to give you a substantial length of rope first (right wing mavericks have a good track record in this regard). If you want to praise his genius you may want to make sure he actually did a smart thing first.

You know what really get's me is that alot of pundits are ready to tar & feather HARPER & string EMERSON up & this after only 1week. PAUL MARTIN kept from the public that he PAYED OFF DINGWALL ($417K+)3 DAYS Before the Election!! Anything said about it, NOTTA &^%$^* THING. We also saw our tax money STOLEN from us to support a political party(ADSCAM)& anybody going or in jail "NO", yet the big deal about Harper & Emerson. So this is bigger than outright "THEFT OF TAXPAYER MONEY" Tar & feather all you want I voted to rid this country of 12yrs liberal corruption, What Harper did is nothing compared to the prior, I stand by my vote, I will continue to back PM HARPER. So if you want to continue to trash & bash I will take from that, it's ok to steal for entitlement's. Sorry Kate I just get so frustrated over this manure talk!

Thank you, William!

William,

Outstanding.....

James Moore should consider himself lucky to become PSec to a guy like Fortier. He will learn a lot and get a lot of airtime in the HoC. He would be out of his league in matters that go outside of the borders.

We should be thrilled by how many "young 'uns" PMSH made PSecs. I hope they are not "gophers". PMSH has also set up Rona Ambrose on a path to become Canada's first elected female PM and I'm sure she realizes it. Environment is a tough nut with all the moonbats that cling around it.

What was done, was unethical. How it turns out is irrelevent.

No one has condemned Harper Barcs. I don't think I've heard a single person ask for his resignation. Come on. People are calling him a hypocrite. So far, he's shown that to be true. In fact, that's the only thing he's done. You're whinning about it, trying to defend the indefensible, and really, doing little else besides fanning the flames. The best thing you could do to defend faultless leader, is "STFU".

Kate: I see a whole lot of liberal gophers popping up their heads and saying byelections should be mandatory for floor crossers. Only Maria Minna came out when 40 CPC MPs hollered that with the NDP.

I see a conservative caucus united in supporting Emerson, but thinking very seriously about mandating byelections going forward.

This looks to me like our caucus vs. theirs and our leaderships committment to free votes vs. theirs, and our supporters willingness to disagree vs. theirs.

By my scorecard we are winning whether or not Harper made a mistake (he certainly did not break a promise)

Rove-Rope-a-dope. Never even considered that angle. Don't pay terribly close attention though. Not unless the article starts with "Chairman of the Federal Reserve"... That's the true ruler of the US. The rest are just temporary hacks keeping seats warm.

The Fortier thing is much easier. The gophers are gonna get their heads blown off. The elected Senate just moved up on the calendar.

You used a .22 to shoot them in their holes?

Wow. We always had to use binder twine and snare 'em. In retrospect, I'm pretty sure it was a way to keep my brother and me out of our aunt and uncle's hair for an afternoon.

But at the end of the day, when we had one or two, that's when we tacked them up to the barn - and shot 'em with the .22.

He also set up DA to be the first female finance minister. Cabinet grows with a government.

Eloquently and passionately stated William. Thanks for that....

Kate - you nailed it - PMSH did not go from being the guy who would never win to winnining (albeit a minority) with 10 seats in a province that laughed at the mention of a Conservative MP coming from that province.

He is - after all - from Alberta where we have a great many of them there gophers and even have a gopher museum!!!!!

William, I'm in business in BC, have been for 15 years (Alberta previously) and believe me when I say I'm a capitalist and free trade advocate. I agree with you that the Pacific initiatives are critical to both our regional and national economy. And I did not say that i was no longer going to be supportive of the CPC or Harper, I like most of us look forward to having a strong majority to undo the myriad number of disasters foisted upon us the past few years.
I've also met with Mr Emerson (we do a lot of business with Canfor) and agree that he's an extremely intelligent man.
That said, the way this was handled still smells. There are many intelligent business savvy experienced members of Stephens caucus, but if David was deemed to be the right guy, why not change how we do things. Make him a special advocate on this file, have him sit as an independant until the next (hell its only going to be 18-24 months) election..optics are important..my wife, who hates politics and pays hardly any attention to it, came home from work on Monday evening (the owners there are friends and conservative supporters) and said "I understand your guy is as sleazy as the last guy"

That is important..it's being said in many places..and the next election is not that far off..I hope it goes away but fear it will not.

I think I finally get your gopher analogy. I ain't unusually bright or quick but sometimes the light comes on.

Harper does the Senate thing and the Floor-crossing thing and gets the LPC and the NDP all fired up.
Now the other guys are in the gunsights when the topic comes up for real change.

Or I still don't get it :)

"He is - after all - from Alberta where we have a great many of them there gophers and even have a gopher museum!!!!!"

PMSH is from - Alberta?????? He said he was from the Maritimes/Toronto/Calgary!!!!! Could it be he lied to us?????? Oh no!!!!!!!!

You get a lot more gophers with forcite! Then it doesn't matter of they're yipping at you or hiding out...they all get the same treatment. ;-

Kate,

I neither understand Harper's ploy nor
your Zen-like parable of an explanation of it.

When I was a kid I spent a lot of time in Medicine Hat on the weekends. Friend ran a small horse ranch and hobby farm (if you can call 4 hectares a hobby farm) east of the city.

We used to get .5 cents for a gopher tail, $20 bucks for a badger pelt, and $140 for a Coyote pelt. Government Bounty for pest control.

Paid for a hell of a lot a beer.

Didn't do much for the Coyote population though... Badgers were to mean for a .22, needed a .30 cal. for them. Otherwise you'd just piss em' off.

Bullets were pretty pricy for a kid back then, so you had to learn to hit what you aimed at. We used to use Trudeau/Lib. party posters stolen from his last campaign as targets.

Must have killed PT a hundred times with a single head shot straight between the eyes.

Ah... the good ol' days.

...you're a wise woman kate.

;-)

cheers
tom

There are two geniuses at work, Harper @PMO and Kate @ SDA.

It is always a relief to visit and read the wisdom at SDA.

Crikey I got Kate's parable and I'm more used to hunting haggi over here in Scotland! Now if only I could apply same method to Scotland's Central Belt welfare louts who all vote Labour like good little (but fat) turkeys......

I'm not convinced the Emerson thing was rovian rope a dope, but he can play it that way. Support for byelection just increased in CPC and Liberal circles. Fortier, yes.

It is always a relief to visit and read the wisdom at SDA.

Speaking of which, I trust many here have noted over at Inkless how PWells essentially shot himself in the foot by announcing the "ADS Award", awarded for commentators who reacted to Emerson more strongly than Belinda!. Love that irony!

Kate: Wells has run up the flag (mostly). He created an ADS award (the reverse of the SDA award) and ended up winning it thanks to MKB. He even works in a joke about failure to link:

As for the ADS award, for making more fuss about Emerson than Stronach, MK Braaten makes an eerily persuasive argument that the winner should be... someone familiar to the Inkless Legions. (Can't find the link for this; somebody snipped it from Braaten's blog and sent it to me. Anyone got the link?)

"The day after Belinda Stronach jumped ship to the Liberals, back in May, Journalist Paul Wells wrote on his blog:

"'One thing that’s important to note is how little regard many Canadians have for partisan consistency. If you think all politicians are low, you don’t put too high a premium on party loyalty. You and I may be appalled when a politician throws over her party for a new date, but we’re geeks. Most people aren’t. I remember travelling with Stéphane Dion in small-town Quebec in 1997, when he was regularly being drawn as a rat in La Presse, and most of the ordinary people he saw didn’t know whether he was 'rouge' or 'bleu.'

"However, the day after David Emerson jumped ship to the Conservatives he wrote this:

"'David Emerson should resign from the House of Commons and run in a by-election. He had two months to decide he was a Conservative and mention this fact to his electors. He forgot. Stephen Harper’s excuses are transparently absurd. 'It’s not about Liberal or Conservative'? Uh. He ran a Conservative against Emerson.'"

Curses. Foiled again.

Anyone catch this Bourque headline? SURPRISE: FIRST LISTING WHEN YOU GOOGLE KEN DRYDEN
http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&q=%22ken+dryden%22&btnG=Google+Search&meta=

It takes you to Stephen Harper's Ministry Page. Shows pictures of all the new Ministers. I looked through it for a pic Dryden, nothing (yet). The third Google link is Dryden's Page, it's still Liberal Red. Hopefully I won't wake up some morning and find his picture under the Ministry banner.

Actually when I first read Kate's gopher analogy, I was thinking that little Kate was Emerson, and gopher sentries squawking was us bloggers and the colony was the Conservative party.

Instead of sneaking around, you walk right into the CPC mist ignoring all the alarm sentries going off. You wait a bit, speak like a Conservative, and then pick them off one by one as they lower their guard - skillfully disseminating and disintegrating the party from within.

Brilliant plan, if I recall my war combat training, one infiltrator is worth 1,000 soldiers

Isn't that's what most of us thought BS Belimbo was...a Liberal plant who would report to Martin about Harper's plans and moves and in the final hour show her true colours?

So you see that's why I said Kate was wise, because if this does turn out to be a Liberal mole/plant - then you saw it coming here first.

I totally agree with Dale on this situation. I posted earlier that while I trust Harper, I just didn't like how things transpired. Exactly it was the optics in all this, the big picture.

Why not sit as an independent and get special status to work on the project with a Conservative instead? That way the Conservatives would "seem" to be willing to work with others, and next election he can run as Conservative.

You can't convince me all those Liberal voters in Vancouver voted for this man because he was a Liberal but at the same you can't convince me people voted for him because of his personality/smarts.

In other words, people who voted for a Liberal are the ones who really lost...why they'd vote Liberal in the first place is another thing...

I could comment on William's point everyone is praising, but the fact is regardless of who is in office we will have to deal with Asia eventually. What this doesn't address is why Emerson crossed in the first place, seeing we now know the Lumber issue was a done deal three weeks prior to elections.

cheers
tom

Interesting about the .22 and the gophers. This prairie guy has fond memories of that as well. Another good technique is a large bucket of water to pour down a hole, while a friend stands by with a baseball bat at the backdoor waiting for the escape.

Cheri - check the google cache ... it was Ken's page under the former govt't

http://72.14.207.104/search?q=cache:RicnKbOE8_wJ:pm.gc.ca/eng/bio.asp%3Fid%3D25+%22ken+dryden%22&hl=en&gl=ca&ct=clnk&cd=1

RE: from William Mcdonell:

"The US is the greatest civilization of the 2nd millenium, and it’s going to be lucky if it can survive to be 500 years old.

We do 90% of our trade with the US, and when it tanks, so do we. The path to Asia is so important to us it defies explanation. We need to diversify our trade yesterday, and we are just getting around to it. Trade with China, India, the Pacific Rim in general must become our overriding focus for the next 25 years, or we are screwed."

This statement makes no sense.

If the USA is going to survive ANOTHER 250 years why must Canada diversify to Asia within the next 25 years or be screwed?.

IMHO, Asia will NEVER buy enough Canadian softwood lumber even if the USA does "tank" in 250 years.

Houses there are not framed like they are in North America.

For the past 250 years Canadians have loudly been proclaiming the future demise of the USA.

Is it just a habit, sorta like nail biting?

Tom,

"What this doesn't address is why Emerson crossed in the first place, seeing we now know the Lumber issue was a done deal three weeks prior to elections."

You might want to read some of the latest news.

Also, I think the gophers are more the Liberals, NDP and the MSM. Once they are finished whining about how horrible this all is, it will be spun right back at them and some things that are very broken will stare getting fixed.

With Fortier, there is no way he is running in an election any time soon. What better way to make people start caring about how absurd the Senate is than to turn the lights on to see what really goes on. Senate Question Period has never before become so meaningful.

Is Fortier the water poured down the gopher hole?

That's sort of the main of my point Tom... I don't think Emerson did the right thing for his constituancy either, but are we to expect Harper to look a gift horse in the mouth?

Emerson is an ass, but he's a smart one.

I challenge anyone to show me a better candidate for trade from inside the elected CPC party, than Emerson. The guy's had lots of time to entrench in the ministry, and to break a new horse is going to cost the country.

I see Harpers sense of humor coming out in all this as well... I don't see him knocking himself out to help Emerson dodge the press bullets. He gets a nice job, but his life just became the butt of jokes for a couple of years at least. I also doubt Harper forgets the words that spewed from his mouth.

Stephens just being practical. Any guy that can shut up Judy Gallant, Rob Anders, and stick the "I want to be PM too" Peter McKay on a plane to anywhere but here... isn't sweating it over Emerson.

We are talking about Harper here... this guy has been written off so many times it's almost hard to keep track, yet he is still standing, and alway's higher up the shitpile than the last time we thought he was done.

Do you seriously believe for a moment that he hasn't planned his moves way out ahead of the rest of us. He's a premier strategist, and Emerson was a quick "I'll take shit for this but the upside is too good" move. If it gets really shaky, he'll force Emerson to step down, call a bye-election, and everyone will be happy.

Emerson will win too. Combine the center Libs with the 3rd place tories, and by the time the actual vote occurs, everyone will be happier about the CPC... boom, Emerson takes it.

In the meantime, big trade wins for the Tories, and a laugh at the expense of the Liberals.

It's a little hypocritical to be villifying Harper for Emerson... nes pas? I agree as to the optics, but as to the political brillance long term... outstanding.

Good one Kate
That first gopher you will be shooting at is a decoy. You ask an interesting question, though; why is Harper quiet? It is because that was part of the plan all along. Emerson is a big boy and new the crap that would come his way before he made the deal. The MSM (and I'm afraid the bloggers) have all fallen for the oldest conservative trick in the world; the smoke sreen. What easier way to get your own house in order than to have all the 2nd guessing comes from the lily pad on the other side of the pond.

I said the US would be "lucky" to survive 500 years.

Personally, at the rate the US is going, they'll be lucky to last another 50.

Keep your friends close, & your enemies closer?

This reminds me of "What is the sound of one hand clapping?" :-)

Garth Turner is an incidental gopher.

Kate are you saying Harper is going to take out the cabinet with a 22? After silently taking up a spot during a cabinet meeting. Or was it Myron Thompson,

: )

Sorry had to say it.

I have a continuum for such things he sits as an independant no ethics breach, sits as back bencher something has happened during the course of government to make him switch sides, minor breach. He goes into cabinet or parliamentary secretary Red warning light. He does so without ever sitting 1 day for the party that elected him, Nuclear alert.

MIRV has been launched.....

good one

Re Fortier: Harper's move might, after all, be a premeditated move to provoke Quebec into giving a damn about the Senate. If Quebeckers don't like the appointment of an unelected representative, then hold an election. Nothing prevents them from holding one if there's a vacancy.

William, I agree that Harper has thought this through and probably has a master plan. As for knowing the flak would happen and having Emerson take it, well that is a bit risky.

Seeing how Harper was very quiet during the initial days of Adscam, gun registry and other antics of the Liberals, I see this as normal for him.

Meaning, I lost count the amount of times he had the Liberal jugular handed to him on a plate and he or the party missed going for it.

So for him to be strangely quiet isn't new. Although, one poster said if you have to explain things in politics, you've already lost.

So what I'm seeking is a balance. Reason I heard is he is a brilliant guy, smart, BC representation, softwood lumber, Vancouver 2010 Olympics, etc. Granted that might be right combo but it's been what a week or more and we find out the softwood issue was already a done deal.

As for DCwow reference about reading the latest news, I try to avoid the MSM but did watched Emerson last night on CTV-Tass being interviewed. I didn't really get a feel for why he crossed other than he is a business person who got convinced by Martin to sign up.

Sounds good enough, but does that mean then one doesn't have to have an allegiance? What's stopping him from jumping ship back, or the *ack* NDP?

To Harper's credit, I hope this doesn't blow up in his face.

As I posted in another string, the reasoning I heard about softwood being hushed was Emerson's idea. That tells me this guy has a lot of pull, is a bad planner, or read the popular vote wrong.

Meaning, as a Liberal I'd use the softwood deal to convince Canadians "we got it done" as it has been a thorn in the side for many years. It would give a strong boost to the Liberals in the dying days of the campain.

Reminds me of the Iran hostange issue. Regan's team convinced the Mullah in Iran to hold off releasing the captives till after the election so that it looked like they did it. Difference here was Carter was president, so this would be akin to the Conservatives inking the deal but telling the US to hold off till after elections.

cheers
tom

William, the US, at the rate they are going, will be around long after the formerly great Dominion of Canada is dead and buried, you need to become Steyninized

William AND Dale from BC are right. G-r-r-r-r I'm goin' nuts.

Dale: I had the exact experience with my hairdresser, a lovely smart but very liberal young woman in Vancouver who was very angry. I told her I was deeply conflicted AND that to be consistent she would have to equally enraged when members cross to her party.

But nevertheless, something was lost! And the move was NOT CRITICAL at that juncture!

Here's my take - the softwood deal was just about signed when the confidence vote happened in Nov - the Liberals - including David Emerson - thought we will beat up on the Americans during the election - then pull this out of the hat after we win showing how PM(ex)PM and the Liberals made the Americans capitulate on softwood.

The only problem is that they lost the election so now the only thing they can do to save face is to put out some spin blaming Emerson - this way they get to dis one of their own who fled the party and to put a dirty smell around any softwood deal that the Conservatives finish. The Liberals haven't governed for as many years as they have by playing politics nice.

"No one has condemned Harper Barcs."

Posted by Central Content Provider at February 9, 2006 02:50 PM

O_O

Did you close your eyes while you were reading for the last week??? Try to listen through your nose????

My looseleaf sheet is full of ticks of people "mad as hell and not lending their vote to Harper anymore." My calculator doesn't go high enough (it burned out this morning) to count the number of people (left and CPC) waving their arms around trying to be more outraged than the last guy.

The word hypocrite is bandided around more than racist or sexist or natzi. It no longer has any meaning nor the people who use it every 3rd word any credibility.

As for indefensible,.... the liberals still got more than 308 votes (one for each candidate) despite their recent record on GST, childcare, taxes, farm, dingwall, softwood(and other trade), etc etc etc. But ofcourse my position is the indefensible one.

Faultless? I don't know anyone that isn't faultless espically anyone involved in politics (or pays any attention).

Look for a rational logical argument. Then try to formulate one. Don't go off half cocked and then tell anyone who has a contrary opinion to "STFU"

I listen to the credibiilty in the last couple days.... You did that, its bad its undemocratic, its the end of the world as we know it.... So, you did too.... Yeah but but, you said you wouldn't. LMAO

(I know lots that claim to be faultless tho.... righteous to the end)

Sorry William, it still makes no sense.

But at least you admit your opinion regarding the USA is "personal".

William MacDonnel "I said the US would be "lucky" to survive 500 years."

You got it all wrong. Take a cue from Nostradamas when writing preditions and make them as vague as possible that way they might come true retroactively with enough headscratching. You also get to poo poo any detractors as people who lack the insight to "get" your prophetic genius.

How about "The Land of the Eagle will burn when the House of Nocturn is at its zenith." A much more useful prediction.

Having said that I sort of agree with you inasmuch as I think we'll probably ditch the nation state for something that better suits us before this century is out. Or put more plainly - The houses of the great will melt as wax when the three turtles of nod rise in the east.

In any case the direction that the states is going in is going to change. Love it or hate it, its a dynamic country and the times are always a-changing.

William MacDonnel " I also doubt Harper forgets the words that spewed from his mouth."

I wouldn't put much stock in that. A lot of politicans rip each other apart on camera but get along just fine in private. And that's a good thing imho.

Kate,

I have an ethics question for you. Lets say that in the N. Sask Churchill riding, Merasty wins the recount. Further, no proof comes forward of wrongdoing in the election. Then he decides to cross the floor and sit as a conservative and Harper accepts him.

Would that be OK with you?

Speaking of the senate.

There is in fact 6 vacancies (Fortier fills only 1)

23 CPC
4 PC (yeah, Martin put 2 there for fun after the inception of the CPC)
6 independant (one says she is a NDP,.. but they don't recognise the senate...)
66 liberals

adds up to 105.

So Harper appointed one. O_O Everyone who believes the majority of those 66 liberals are gonna help make a Triple-E senate??

He should appoint more, and ask for the exemption like Mulroney did to get a few extra appointments. Only then will we be able to get what is needed. Only then will he have enough voices there to allow him to pass the constitutional ammendment to elect the senate.

"I have an ethics question for you. Lets say that in the N. Sask Churchill riding, Merasty wins the recount. Further, no proof comes forward of wrongdoing in the election. Then he decides to cross the floor and sit as a conservative and Harper accepts him.

Would that be OK with you?"

Yup, ok with me. Just as it's ok with me if his constituants give him a rough time for doing it.

Has anyone heard if Emerson is actually a member of the CPC?

We know he has cancelled his Liberal membership.

So, he in reality is he an Independent, working for his constituents, as he said he would?

Just watched Mike Duffy; something I generally don't do. Seems he and his cohort of reporters are upset because they don't seem to be getting what they want from the new PM. One is upset because PMSH did not let them take pictures of moving day. All are upset that Peter Mckay did not give an interview of his meeting with Condy Rice. They are also belittling the new PM for not coming to Emerson's defense. All in all they are really P@&*@D-OFF. Who, I ask, is running this country. I know the media - at least they think they do. I don't remember them on the ballot. Don't they understand that our news comes from the net and if we want dialogue we can get it from the blogs. Seems these self important people aren't that damn important. My advice to the new PM is if you want to get things done without interference don't contact the media till it's finalized. Stay your course and no apologies.. Let those guys bat around in the dark at least till parliament resumes. Go ahead and P!## them off - it looks good on them. They just twist the truth anyways.

Buffalo Bean, I'd like to know that, too. It's what happens in the U.S. when a sitting elected official (see: Jim Jeffords for most recent example) quits his party. Serving IN a Conservative government ≠ being a Conservative -- does it? Automatically?

(Awesome! I've always wanted to use that little character!!! Too bad I don't know any native languages or I could use all these "Canadian Aboriginal Characters", too . . .)

Loreene probably didn't want them taking pictures of moving day because they would take issue with the kind of furniture or the fact that the kids didn't even get a handshake when they came home from school.

I have come to the conclusion that there are just too many reporters in Ottawa - each trying to scratch the eyes out of their competition for the biggest story.

I almost think that I am sick to death of this stuff and should just quit reading and watching this politics stuff (of course, my addictive personality will only allow that for a short time)

P.S. the only problem with explosives for gophers (or prairie dogs that we have down south) is that it's hell with the real estate . . . also makes the prairie dog rights activists really mad.

(I'm not making that up -- there really are prairie dog rights activists - people who live in cities who think that prairie dogs would be cute to have for pets. And that it's evil to own and "exploit" cows. Or grasslands. No joke.)

Thanks, but I'm Catholic, so if I start reading about prophesies, I'd have to feel guilty about it.

Actually, I think I'm beginning to feel guilty for replying about not wanting to feel guilty about reading prophesy now... excuse me while I go do penance at the corner pub.

Did I say Pub?

"My advice to the new PM is if you want to get things done without interference don't contact the media till it's finalized. Stay your course and no apologies.. Let those guys bat around in the dark at least till parliament resumes. Go ahead and P!## them off - it looks good on them."

Because that worked soooo well for Harper before the election and soooo well for Martin and The Board during the election. Ask John Duffy what he thinks of that advice.

Ted
Cerberus

Alberta Girl, it's what I called in the last post's comments "Washington in August" syndrome. In the U.S., Washington D.C. is totally empty in August and nothing's happening and yet the news must go on the air, in print, etc. So lots of things get really blown up out of proportion, and then are totally forgotten after Labor Day -- though a very select few stick around. All, however, are the creation of the media focus. Cindy Sheehan, for example, has the August Doldrums to thank for her notoriety, it was very good timing on her part (and I don't say that to put her down, it was good timing). "Plame-gate" and then "Fitz-mas" were other August stories - look up the timing. It helps to know that most of this is deadline-driven. Same things happened in Clinton years, BTW.

Interesting comment about the media being angry at being shut out. I was just thinking that we may have seen the last (or far fewer of) the useless "gotcha" parliamentary scrums.

What I'm really waiting for:
The first snarky Toronto columnist to make fun of the name "Loreen". You know someone's itching to do it. Because it's just not very "Tronna-sophisticated", is it? Who will it be? Zerb? We could run a pool on this . . . about as productive as the current media yakkity-yaks . . .

Well, the media were pretty bugged yesterday, hanging around in the cold at Meech Lake, just so they could watch limos & catering trucks drive past. Personally I think it's hilarious, but I'm not sure it's wise. Thank God the Olympics will take some of the spotlight.

Maybe Toews should go ahead & cancel the gun registry or something.

MolarMauler is on to something. If you want an elected senate, get people angry about appointments. If you want people to have more say in their local MP's behavior, recall legislation can be quite effective. Look at Arnold in California. PMSH has gone on the record to say he supports crossing the floor as it is sometimes the only avenue an MP has to the Prime Minister's power. I think recall legislation will be introduced just before the next election and die on the order paper to become an election issue. Like Kate says, lie and wait......

Both of the national politics shows(cable-only - you must pay your tithe to the cable monopolies if you want to watch political debate in this country!) tonight are hilarious. They both feature panels of "pundits" crying over what a communications disaster this week has been for Harper. How nobody's in control. How they're out of the loop. How the Liberals used to tip them off days in advance so they could prep the public!

This has become a complete farce. The behaviour of the Canadian media is disgusting. Not because of the obvious bias, but because of the incompetence and impotence of the political debate. Canadians like to brag about our "educated" population. But this isn't educated debate. So there were a couple of arguably controversial cabinet appointments. An educated debate would have centered on the skill-sets and qualifications that these individuals were bringing to their positions to determine if their selections were warranted. Instead what we get is ranting and hysterical attempts to create an ethical crisis over the appointment process itself.

But what the media, and obviously the Liberal party, don't seem to understand is that a cabinet position is a job. It's not a reward! IT'S A JOB! And we finally have a Prime Minister who seems to understand this and has acted "outside the box" to get capable and qualified persons to do these JOBS, and his reward is media hysteria.

Every day, the words stupid and Canadian seem to move a little bit closer to becoming synonyms.

Kate:so glad to hear you used to shoot gophers when you were young. I was born and raised in Manitoba, where it was the Provincial sport every summer. I found the best ammo was the .22 LR Whiz-bang! Accurate and penetrated the little dirt mound if you shot low. The farmers used to love us kids, we saved them a lot of broken legged cattle from stepping in a gopher hole.
The gophers were a lot like todays' reactionaries, they just can't keep their heads down. Emerson jumped, get over it, the Liberals didn't do much hand wringing over the "morality" of Brison or Stronachs' defections. The "rightness" of any pol crossing the floor is for philosophers, the practicality for both parties, Emerson and Harper, outweighs the angst of the morally pure, in the Conservative Party, and (joke) the Liberal Party. This time, we won, morality don't enter into it. Think of politics as a whores' convention, choose your dance partner, and keep your expectations low. Chances are, she ain't a virgin. Let's get on to other topics, like how not to offend Muslim Fanatics, and the best weapons to purchase if, by chance, you do.
I lived in Vancouver- Kingsway for three years, 2001-2004. When I went out I was quite often the only non-Asian person in the crowd, on the street, in the restaurant, etc. In many discussions, I heard the expression of gratitude for "letting me move to this country". In other words, Van.-Kings. votes "Liberal," the candidate being of quite secondary importance.

Author: Anonymeme

No way that the NDP, Libs and BQ allow the Consrvtvs to entrench themselves into governing because that would be not only the demise of the Libs and NDP ... but also the BQ separatist movement in Quebec.

Liberals:
Martin is just sitting back and waiting for the non-confidence vote and he's back in the saddle ... WHY DO YOU THINK THAT NOBODY WANTS THE LEADERSHIP NOW ... THEY ARE BETTING ON A MARTIN COMEBACK.

NDP:
Layton cannot resist the pressures from the NDP socialists, neoDeviates and unions in bringing down the Consrvtv govt asap so that anti-union anti-ssm legislation is not advanced. Jack also does not want to lose union contributions that would be eliminated with proposed Consrvtv "Rene Levesque" funding restriction.

BQ:
Duceppe does not want a resurgence of a federal Consrvtv party to replace the failed Liberals in Quebec. A Harper-Charest partnership could defeat the PQ and the Sovereignty Referendum.

NOPE ... I'M BETTING THAT THE OPPOSITION WILL GANG UP ON THE CONSERVATIVES AND FORM SOME KIND OF ACCORD OR COALITION TO DENY A HARPER GOVT AND MAINTAIN LEFTY CENTRALIZED CONTROL OVER CANADA ... WANNA BET ...???!!! >>>
http://www.voy.com/178771/132112.html

Good observation jypsy. I've been enjoying watching the mornfull, grim, nasty, spitful MSM people on the idiot box (TV) for a few days now. It is way too much fun!! Tragicomedy at it's worst, irony at it's best. Funny how what goes around comes around - watching it gives the audience that 'got ya' feeling even if we are just observers - this is audience particapation - in my own case!!

I haven't read any of the comments yet, but your gopher technique is perfect! That's the same way we get them on the farm too.

Maz is right, although the Liberals will run with McKenna or Tobin if at all possible. Martin is toast. The Liberals want an election as soon as possible before the Auditor-General and the RCMP get busy, so expect a non-confidence vote before the end of May.

The party has to rein in Harper before he pulls off another move like Emerson. The MPs get a little too light headed when they're in Ottawa, so the riding associations have to talk them some sense when they're home on the weekend. If that fails, the Conservative MPs better enjoy the view from the government benches while they can.

Harper always was the viper in the Reform garden. When you consider the Liberal record and Martin's incompetent campaign, it's apparent that the Conservatives won in spite of Harper, not because of him. The scary label wouldn't have stuck if he wasn't a throwback to the pre-Diefenbaker up-tight true blue Ontario high Tory type that kept the Conservatives out of power for most of the 20th century.

Moo Moooooo...

RJM - can I have some of what you're smoking? The current Conservative Party wouldn't exist without Harper, and you think they won "in spite" of him. Sheesh. See musing on political party as non-virginal dance partner, above. Please. And remember: The Liberals don't have any money. Right? Nobody has the money to finance a campaign for at least 18 months -- except the Conservatives. When the Libs get some more money in the bank (and, like, you know, actually have a leader), then you can worry.

God, you people act like you lost or something. Do you want to go back to the "purity" of Opposition? You sure act like it.

Jypsy, Jema, we unplugged our cable (our building pays for basic) on Tuesday evening after "the election and everything" -- we had kept it plugged in for election coverage -- and we're both much, much happier.

Make floor-crossers run in byelections, Fortier says

New senator cites Emerson, Stronach as examples

Members of Parliament who bolt from their parties and cross the floor of the House of Commons should have to quit and face their voters in a byelection, says new Public Works Minister Michael Fortier.

fortier

Perhaps a petition to get the media to STFU and do their job - report on all the stuff the Liberals have done over the past 12 years - the Dingwall scandal would be a start.

Would it help if all of us bloggers actually put our fingers to work and emailed our displeasure to the MSM. I have done it but have gotten no response. Maybe if they had hundreds it might work.

Give me some feedback.

There are just to many ways to get these varmints.

Didn't like traps, snares or water (a lot of work) much, but had to use them because of houses and highways on occasion.

I do like the .22's. My favorite was and still is my trusty Cooey with a scope. I've had it for 40 years - even registered it when the Libs decided to make me a criminal if I didn't. I think it was a popular gun - the one with the rabbit on the stock. You can only use L and LR with this gun.

Anyway, I used it with the scope on and off for gophers. The reason? - with the scope I could take out the sentinels. Kinda funny watching them look at the dust clouds around them while I was sighting the scope.

The reason I used the open sights was not really for the gophers - it was for practice. I love grouse ...especially if it's done like chicken fricassee. Grouse aren't real bright ... they think that they can hide behind a twig. But because of habitat (they blend in) they aren't easy to find in a scope. So open sights is required for a very satisfying dinner. BTW: I recommend a Merlot with grouse.

Kate, with a gun...
a .22, not registered...
on the prairies, in Canada...
I'm not making this up.

I'm also not too sure why nobody else did this corny stchick before me. Perhaps I'm the only one not fixated at why PMSH et al, are doing what they seem to be doing (or not) and just waiting for some results.

Never made it to the gopher museum in Torrington but I did make more than my fair share of gopher road pizzas. (I know, Richardson's Ground Squirrel)

I'm with Dale 100%. He's making the most sense here in my mind.

This thing stinks. And it stinks because of how badly it has been handled. There were 20 other ways Harper could have brought Emerson into the fold, and all of them are better than what we have seen here.

Harper or his advisers should have been smarter than this.

Get real people. If the Conservatives want a majority next time around, step one is not to alienate your core base of supporters, and step two is to get advisers who know what they are doing.

If my local Conservative MP, for whom I and many many others worked countless hours to help get elected, had crossed the floor so soon into the new parliament, I would be BLOODY PISSED.

Dale: thanks for you wise comments.

FreeThinker,

There were 20 other ways Harper could have brought Emerson into the fold, and all of them are better than what we have seen here.

What are the 20 different ways that would make you happy?

Emerson's actions reflect his BC roots. There is a lot less to this story than most in the Toronto-centric MSM pretend there is.

Once Paul Martin jumped overboard on election night no doubt Emerson felt he no longer owed the Paul Martin Liberals any loyalty.

We should not forget that Emerson came on board the Liberals as part of the "Martin Team". He never was a lifelong Liberal. This is not a secret in BC (even in Van-Kingsway). Gordon Campbell's reaction ("This is a great appointment for BC.") is more typical of most BC Liberals.

The only ones who are really upset in BC are NDP supporters and their fellow leftie travellers.

Now let's all turn to a real story - like what the hell was Janet Gretzky thinking?

Hmmmm was Garth Turner the first to pop up?

Ok, I give up, what did you whistle?

;-)

William:
Yer post is spot-on! Very well said.

concrete:
"William: Trade with China, India, the Pacific Rim in general must become our overriding focus for the next 25 years, or we are screwed."
Concrete this statement makes PERFECT sense. Why put 9/10 eggs in the US basket? When they drop it, we're screwed. We depend far too much on the US for an economy. We SHOULD have diversified our trading partners years ago. But then, that would be too much work, Why work so hard when you don't have to? Besides, the overseas markets weren't nearly as lucrative 30 yrs ago as they are now. If we have 60% of our trade with Pacific countries, and 40% with the US, we protect our economy from tanking. Far better to only have 40% of our economy exposed to US market pressures. Kinda like an investment portfolio....50% bonds, 30% dividend stocks, 10% futures, 10% income trust. If any sector takes a hit, the effect is less than if it was all in that one area.
The US will be lucky to even get any lumber from here once asian markets have their share. Wood grown in northern climates is favoured over wood grown in warm climes because the "rings" are closer together due to shorter growing season in the north, producing substantially stronger wood.Therefore more valuable. And not only will they be wanting wood, but metals, petroleum etc. Our economy will become VERY stable, and perhaps our dollar will rise above the greenback. Bad for exports, but better for other things. I'd be happy with it close to par.
Softwood deal:
DE says it wasn't a done deal because it wasn't a good enough proposal. I believe it. It doesn't just get done that quick, we're still fighting for those stolen dollars from duties the US refuses to return..... remember? I doubt there'll be a deal before we get out money back.
After 12 yrs of lieberals blowing smoke up our arses, have we forgotten how good they are at it?

I'm cutting Garth some slack, though he really should know better as a former MP. There are going to be lots of off-message comments by Conservative MP's in coming weeks. Steep learning curve, and all that.

I don't know that it's useful to amplify these in the blogosphere.

Snookie, I am glad to see someone on this blog with at least some idea of the issues relating to softwood.

The problem with relying on the superior strength of the Northern species is that the building industry is quickly moving to manufactured lumber products like strand boards and I beams.

The same strengths can now be obtained with low grades of lumber (a renewable resource, i.e., trees grow).

And in the 13 years the Liberals and the NDP have been using the softwood issue as a political 2x4 to screw up NAFTA (as they promised), Canada, especially BC has missed out on part of the biggest building boom in human history in the USA.

IMO Chinese banks are carrying bad debt from poorly managed state run factories forward.

I expect the problem debts may become very apparent after the Beijing Olympics.

Anyone who wants to bet long term AGAINST the USA and WITH China has chosen a very tough row to hoe.

Canadians will be much better served financially if their government solved the trade practices that cause problems trading lumber across PROVINCIAL borders, but unlike the USA softwood dispute, Canadas internal trade practices are completely ignored as there is no political capital there.

Kate, I had a thought discussing this last evening, What if Stephen had enticed a certain MP from Montreal to cross and become Finance Minister..he had several years of experience in the position and a great rep and he added a seat in the big city of Montreal??
Or perhaps appoint a certain PP from the same city to the Senate and make him responsible for Foreign Affairs..same credentials..how would we have felt about either of these bold ideas??

Great comments Dale. No one lives in a glass house and we have to take the criticism when deserved. My disappointment is heavy and fuels the arguments of "they are all a bunch of crooks." I really don't want this gov't to be in any way comparable to the last dictatorship we went thru but we have not made a great first step.
While they are many other good counterpoints that are given until they have an iq and sensibility quiz when they hand out a ballot the court of public opinion does matter.

Reminds me of when the first Chinese delegation came to Alberta.

We tripped over ourselves showing them how we do directional drilling and so on, and they took notes, pictures and what not. The idea was to "shock and awe" them into getting hefty contracts in China.

Well the delegation went home and built their own stuff from all the information we gave them.

And that is how their culture works. The only ironic thing I laughed hard at was when we gave them white hats and Canadian flag lapel pins, on the back the little stickers said "Made in Taiwan"...

There is lots of reason to be cautious about China. Massive corruption in the banking system should sober up anyone thinking it's a better bet than the USA - which I think will outlast the Roman empire, now that there is a concerted fight to push back the left.